Excellent ideas Porcia.... I really like the Roman Feast idea. :)
I think Fabius mentioned the TV series of a Roman Era Cop show, that might
be on TV one day in the future.
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: Redd <jsimmons@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Fw: ancient roman social customs
> Salvete,
> While I don't have a great deal of information on Roman social customs, I
do
> have some ideas for projects. Perhaps, if projects and infomormation is
> what this person is looking for, someone else can provide the information.
>
> Prepare a Roman Feast
> Write a Roman letter from a particular persona(s) demonstrating the
> different
> social strata
> Create a map of the Roman empire
> Write a Roman newspaper article about Roman happenings (in that time)
> Make a video of a Roman newscast telling about happenings in the
empire
> Create a Roman shipwreck and be the archeologist
> Write a brief skit demonstrating Roman traditions, etc.
> Make a Roman video imitating a modern TV show (ie Cops, Friends,
Touched
> by a God, etc.)
> Make a Roman costume and have Roman "stuff" from a kitchen, school,
etc.
> with you adn talk about it.
>
> Portia
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: L. Cornelius Sulla <alexious@-------->
> To: <novaroma@-------->
> Cc: <kymmee_cruiz@-------->
> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 8:48 PM
> Subject: [novaroma] Fw: ancient roman social customs
>
>
> > We got this email....Hoping someone might be able to assist this person.
> :)
> >
> > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> > Censor
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: John Carhart <carhartj@-------->
> > To: <info@-------->
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 8:14 PM
> > Subject: ancient roman social customs
> >
> >
> > > Hi,
> > > I'm a 10th grade student doing a project on ancient roman social
> customs,
> > > and I was wondering if you could provide me with any information on
the
> > > topic.
> > > thanks a bunch!!!
> > > Kymmee
> > > kymmee_cruiz@--------
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Quiritibus salutem
Only since you asked, mi Curio, the plural of 'paterfamilias' is
'patresfamilias' (I can see why the fathers are plural, but why is it still
only one family? Can anyone explain, please?)
Now, to the rest of Curio and Aurelia's exchange:
This idea of having new sui iuris citizens (newcomers, head of a gens of
one) was mooted last year but for some reason got nowhere. I also think it's
a good one, as a substitute for the help and guidance senior members of an
adopting gens would otherwise be able to provide.
However, I don't believe that, at this early stage in our development, we
can't afford more new gentes and I certainly wouldn't like to see a system
of clientela built up in this new Rome of ours which is (I hope) going to
continue to be a freer society than ancient Rome ever was. We don't have
slaves any more, so there are no liberti (freedmen or freedwomen) with a
lifelong obligation to their former masters or mistresses (patrones).
By all means let's put together a list of willing citizens who can act as
mentors for newcomers (many of us already do so informally), and by all
means let there be a spirit of grateful obligation - it exists already in
Nova Roma - but let it be voluntary and a matter of personal honour, not one
of expectation, i.e. that because A has shown B around and given some advice
(one would hope, unbiased advice), or given them a job, B is therefore
obligated to vote for A in the elections, attack A's enemies, fawn on A's
friends, continue working for A no matter what, etc.
The idea of one person owning another in that way (like modern Mafia
obligations) is not, in my view, a road we want to go down. Just because
something is anciently Roman and because it worked after a fashion is not
good or sufficient reason not to see the need to jettison it (or, better in
this case, not resurrect it), if it has potentially dangerous consequences.
Look at what clientela did to the late Republic: politics became gang
warfare, then gangs of clientes escalated to private armies... and Rome
ended up being run by the most successful Godfather of them all.
Look at what clientela and notions of owning people did to the later Empire,
when after Diocletian society became ever more fixed and ultimately rigidly
stratified: the people at the bottom who were kept there by aristocratic
self-interest had no stake in the res publica (which had become Res
Privata), little prospect of advancement and weren't about to give their
lives to defend it from the barbarians. Why should they? These proto-serfs
can hardly be accused of disloyalty, since loyalty has to work both ways. In
socio-historical terms, it is a short step from social obligation to legal
compulsion. Patria Potestas (the legendary power of the paterfamilias) also
needs a long critical examination in this light.
As Livia Cornelia suggests, the process of adoptio needs some codification.
Thus far in NR, no plebeian gens has been allowed to adopt a member of a
patrician gens, and the power of the patresfamilias has been interpreted to
mean that the head of the gens can prevent a junior member from leaving that
gens for another against his/her wishes. All newcomers should take careful
note of this. After only two years, we are already in danger of becoming a
society one is free to join, free to leave but while one is in it one is
circumscribed by laws without equity.
Both these unnecessarily restrictive practices above have been justified
purely on the grounds that they were 'Roman'. Lots of things were Roman at
some time or other. That doesn't mean that they were desirable then, or now.
The Rome of Quirinus was founded on voluntary association and willing
co-operation (unless you were a Sabine woman, of course). Fugitives from
other societies found new freedom in Rome. But in course of time the
patricians found it convenient to forget who their distant ancestors
probably were. You don't make a start by compelling people, but you can
make an end that way any time you like. History is a boneyard of examples.
Floreat Nova Roma diique deaeque omnes illa bene semper ament.
Vado.
> Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 13:17:59 -0600
> From: <gmvick32@-------->
> Subject: Re: Re: New Citizens and all the Vadonian posts
>
> Salvete, Scaurus et Omnes:
>
> Thanks, I'm glad you liked my buddy suggestion.
>
> I think we could stand to tighten up a bit when allowing new gens to be
> created. It's not a matter of prohibiting new gens, rather it's using the
> concept of the gens for its most natural application....as a source of
> instant community and a basic unit of the res publica.
>
> If you look at the Album Gentium, you'll see we have a high number of own
> person gens, and I would suspect (though I have no proof) that a lot of
them
> aren't participating in Nova Roma.
>
> That said, it raises the question of how to promote gens membership. I
> think it's very hard to be a new person and know which gens is right for
> you. Going on the basis of interest in a historical personage (like I
did)
> is kind of scary. Since the gens is a sort of family, you want a chance
to
> know what you're stepping into. To that end, it wouldn't be such a bad
idea
> to have the ability to come into Nova Roma, have a look around, and then
> seek adoption/formal entry into a gens. Which still gets us back to
having
> "buddies", and also raises the issue of having a formal procedure for
> requesting adoption and/or gens reassignment.
>
> Not that we don't have a way to do it now, but I'll be damned if I can
point
> to a place where it's stated how to request adoption.
>
> Livia Cor. Aurelia
>
>
> marcusaemiliusscaurus@-------- wrote:
>
> > Salve Quirites,
> >
> > I think that, while I see the point of preventing new citizens from
> > starting new gens, surely that means that no new gens are created?
> >
> > After all, we can hardly ask a person to be a member of someone
> > else's gens, and then change their identity completely!
> >
> > I think, that for all new paterfamilii, (Is that right?) we should
> > adopt the previously suggested idea of a buddy, and in all other
> > cases, let the other gens members show them the ropes.
> >
> > Valete,
> > Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus.
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