| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Pater/Materfamilias guidelines |
| From: |
razenna@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 20 Oct 2000 01:43:11 -0000 |
|
You know what? I realy think that the Pater/Materfamilias should be
a
parent to their gens. This is either radical or reactionary, I know.
There should be no official guidelines. Official guidelines imply
that there can be official action taken against the head of a family.
This does not sound Roman to me. New age, perhaps.
C. Aelius Ericius
--- In novaroma@--------, "pjane@j... " <pjane@j...> wrote:
> > 1. Guidance for newbies
> > 2. Promoting their Gens members via political and religious
offices
> > 3. Keeping their gens members informed on NR events like Sodalias
> and other goings on...
> > 4. Approving new members
> > 5. Being available to all Gens members as needed.
> > 6. Conflict management between members of the same gens
> > 7. Conflict management between members of other Gens.
> > 8. Promotion of the Gens within NR and outside of NR.
>
> I would say that item 5 should be "as reasonably possible," given
> that
> many people's lives do not allow them to be available on an
unlimited
> basis.
>
> Also, instead of "conflict management," how about something along
the
> lines of "setting an example to Gens members and others by behaving
> with Dignitas, Comitas and Clementia for the good of Nova Roma?" I
> think adult Gens members who are not Paters or Maters should be
> responsible for their own conflicts.
>
> Patricia Cassia
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Equus October |
| From: |
"Lucius Equitius" <vze23hw7@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 19 Oct 2000 21:48:04 -0400 |
|
Ex Domo Lucius Equitius Omnibus SPD
As I was unable to access the internet for the past week. I could not post the following Sunday. I regret that; however, I do wish to post this even if it is late. Frui
Idus October
The Ides of October
This day (NP), is for special religious observance.
This day was sacred to Jupiter and bridged the festivals of the Meditranalia and the Armilustrium. Sacrifices made today at the temples would lead to feasting in the streets to which the public and the poor were all invited. The celebrations would consist of games, music, dance and much drinking of wine. Horse races were held today in special honor of Jupiter, and in the two-horse chariot race on the Campus Martius the right side horse of the winning chariot was sacrificed to Mars. In a curious ceremony, a mock fight was staged over the head of the horse by the people on the Palatine and those on the Esquiline, with the winner hanging it on their respective tower.
15 October ID OCT. NP
Feriae Iove (Arv.)
(Equus October)
The entry of the feast of Jupiter, to who, all the Ides were sacred, has crowded out any reference to the 'October horse' which is given only in the late Calendar of Philocalus as 'Equus ad Nixas fit' (the Ciconiae Nixae were post-Republican).
n 15 October a two horse chariot-race took place in the Campus Martius and the right-hand horse of the victorious pair was sacrificed by the flamen Martialis on the altar to Mars in the Campus: according to Timaeus it was a war horse and was killed with a spear. The horse's head was cut off and decorated with cakes. The inhabitants of the Via Sacra then fought with those of the Suburra for possession of this grisly trophy; the winner, if the former then nailed it to the Turris Mamilia. Meanwhile, the horse's tail, cauda, or genitals, still dripping with blood was allowed to fall on the sacred hearth. The Vestal Virgins probably kept some congealed blood for use at the Parilia on 21 April (p, 105).
The original meaning of the rite has been much disputed: some believe in an agricultural genesis, others emphasize the military aspect. The former regard it as the last of a series of harvest festivals and believe that the horse represented a Corn-spirit. This view derives some support from Festus' statement, id sacrificium fiabat ob frgum eventum ('that sacrifice was made for the success of the crops'), but it is rejected by those who see in it a sacrifice to Mars connected with the purifications of the army on its return from the summer campaign and linked with the Armilustrium on 19 October. Of course an element of the truth might reside in both views: what was first an agricultural rite could have developed into a military one, with a war-horse substituted for a farm-horse, especially if Mars himself started his divine career as an agricultural deity. However that may be, the military aspect prevailed and by the later Republic the October horse was regarded as a cleansing of the army: both Timaeus and Polybius set it in a military context (Polybius deriding Timaeus for linking it with the Trojan horse!). note 256
It may be that the struggle between the two factions had lapsed by the first century BC, but the rest of the ritual apparently continued, and Caesar may have had it in mind when in 44BC he handed over two mutinous soldiers to the pontiffs and the flamen Martialis who killed them in the campus Martius and had their heads fixed on the Regia. note 157
(Ludi Capitolini)
The Capitaline Games are not recorded in the because they were not public Games but were given by a College of the Capitolini. This group of men were still active in the time of Cicero who in 56 BC wrote to his brother, telling him how they had expelled an unworthy member, an Eques named M. Furius Flaccus.The origin of the games is uncertain, but was probably ancient since it was attributed to Romulus or to Camillus who had founded them to celebrate either the saving of the Capital from the Gauls (Livy) or the conquest of Veii (Plutarch and Festus). The former perhaps derives from an attempt to explain the College of Capitolini, while the latter may be linked with a curious custom recorded by Plutarch: at these Games a proclamation was made that 'Sardians are for sale' and an old man, wearing a child's bulla round his neck, was led about in mockery; Plutarch identified this old man with the defeated king of Veii who was sold by auction along with other prisoners. Plutarch then explains that the Sardians were really Etruscans from Veii who had originally come from Sardis in Lydia. This explanation should be rejected since the Sardians must be Sardinans, but it is perhaps not necessary to follow Latte in arguing that since the Romans captured Sardinia only in 238 BC, the Capitoline Games must have been later than that. Sardi venales (Sardinians for sale), became proverbial, but its connection with the Games remains obscure. note 258
If the Games in fact go back to pre-Republican times, they must have been held in honour of Jupiter Feretrius not Jupiter Optimus Maximus whose temple was dedicated only at the beginning of the Republic. Thus whereas Livy who attributed them to Camillus naturally names Jupiter Optimus Maximus, Terulllian and apparently Ennius, who believed in an earlier origin, refer them to Jupiter Feretrius; Tertullian calls them the Tarpeian Games, but says that Piso called them the Capitoline. The temple of Jupiter Feretrius, which was the oldest in Rome and was small, was traditionally built by Romulus to commemorate his winning the spolia opima, and it was here that those trophies which were won only twice in historical times (in 428 and 222 BC), were kept. It contained no statue of the god, but only a scepter and flint, The derivation of Feretrius is probably from ferre, 'to carry', rather than from ferire, 'to strike', both explanations being offered by the sources. If the former, it will refer to the carrying of weapons into the temple for dedication; if the latter, to the striking of agreements. The silex flint, originally probably a meteoric stone, was used by the Fetial priest in the ritual of treaty-making. The worship of Jupiter as a god of war is unusual, and is presumably due to the central position he had gained in seventh-century Rome, the time when the temple was probably dedicated. note 259
To return to the Games themselves, little is known beyond the story of the old man and the reference by a Scholiast on Virgil to Ennius' Annals which, he says, told how Romulus built a temple to Jupiter Feretrius and had greased hides spread out and held Games so that men fought with gauntlets (caestibus) and competed in running (cursu): the competitors were, in Ennius' line, 'rubbed down with oil, made supple and ready for taking arms' (conque fricati oleo lentati adque arma parati). note 260
I hope you all continue to enjoy these posts.
Mars nos protegis
Valete, Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus flamen Martialis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Pater/Materfamilias guidelines |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 19 Oct 2000 22:05:37 -0700 |
|
razenna@-------- wrote:
> You know what? I realy think that the Pater/Materfamilias should be
> a
> parent to their gens. This is either radical or reactionary, I know.
>
This is why I brought up this line of discussion. I dont know about any of
you, but most of my Gens members are adults and I am certain that they will
not appreciate a "authorative" parental type of personality. The guidelines
I suggested and quoted were a list of actions that I actually accomplish as
Paterfamilias of the Gens Cornelia.
> There should be no official guidelines. Official guidelines imply
> that there can be official action taken against the head of a family.
Who said anything about official? And who said the guidelines are going to
be adopted as an official policy in Nova Roma? No where in the email was
that suggested execpt as a means of answering questions to prospective
citizens who might be interested in becoming a Pater/Mater. So you might
want to reevaulate your comments Ericius.
> This does not sound Roman to me. New age, perhaps.
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>
> C. Aelius Ericius
>
> --- In novaroma@--------, "pjane@j... " <pjane@j...> wrote:
> > > 1. Guidance for newbies
> > > 2. Promoting their Gens members via political and religious
> offices
> > > 3. Keeping their gens members informed on NR events like Sodalias
> > and other goings on...
> > > 4. Approving new members
> > > 5. Being available to all Gens members as needed.
> > > 6. Conflict management between members of the same gens
> > > 7. Conflict management between members of other Gens.
> > > 8. Promotion of the Gens within NR and outside of NR.
> >
> > I would say that item 5 should be "as reasonably possible," given
> > that
> > many people's lives do not allow them to be available on an
> unlimited
> > basis.
> >
> > Also, instead of "conflict management," how about something along
> the
> > lines of "setting an example to Gens members and others by behaving
> > with Dignitas, Comitas and Clementia for the good of Nova Roma?" I
> > think adult Gens members who are not Paters or Maters should be
> > responsible for their own conflicts.
> >
> > Patricia Cassia
>
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Salve Laietane |
| From: |
Piscinus@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 20 Oct 2000 04:58:23 EDT |
|
Moravius Piscinus Laietano Minicio salutem plurimam dicit:
Primum omnium gens Moravia salvere te iubet. Pro di consentes, Laietane
Barcinonensis, bonum habe animum.
First of all, gens Moravia wishes to send you a warm welcome. By the
Great Gods, Laietanus of Barcelona, be of good cheer.
I am quite certain you are presently not alone in Provincia Hispania, and
hopefully you shall soon be joined by many new cives as well. If you would
like some assistance or guidance in developing Provincia Hispania more, then
may I suggest you contact any of the provincial governors who have joined
together in the Limes Co-operation Project: N. Moravius Vado, Praetor
Provinicae Britanniae; M. Marcius Rex, Praetor Provinciae Germaniae; Primus
Fabius, Propraetor Proviniciae Italiae, or A.I.C. Probus, Praetor Provinciae
Pannoniae. You may find their email addresses through
www.novaroma.org/main.html under Current Magistrates.
It is a very great pleasure to me to find another Classics student has
joined with us in Nova Roma. I hope we in turn may add another dimension to
your studies. I am especially glad to hear you have already subscribed to
the Latinitas list. May I ask what is the focus of your Classical studies?
Were you interested in Latin literature or history you might consider joining
with our newest society, the Sodalitas Musarum. There are presently also
sodalitates for military history and for Roman cooking.
If you have an interest in archaeology then I must invite you to join me
and Marco in the taverna for our daily chats. We meet almost every weekday,
I arrive in the afternoon, about 13.00 GMT. The taverna is a name some have
begun to use for the Nova Roma chat room, entered through the Forum Romanum.
There has been some talk of beginning a sodalitatis for archaeology of the
Italian peninsula, an interest of Marco Attilio and myself, as well as a few
other Italians. But we should also broaden that interest in archaeology
throughout the former Roman provinces. We shall be delighted in meeting with
you someday to discuss archaeological developments in your provincia and
elsewhere.
There are several associate lists too. I suppose the newest is Sulla's
list for Roman law and political science. There has been a few new lists
begun which use English as a second language. Sextus Apollonius for example
has started lists for those who primarily speak French, or Dutch. I have not
heard of a NR list in Spanish yet, although we do desperately require one. I
know there are several cives in Argentina, a couple in Mexico, and others as
well. A Spanish list would improve contact between various provinciae and
would certainly assist you with trying to reach out to your fellow
countrymen.
If I may be any assistance to you please contact me at piscinus@--------
or otherwise try to find me in the Nova Roma chat room from 13.00 to 15.00
GMT.
Di deaeque te salvom et servatum semper volunt. Si vales guadeo.
a manos
Gnaeus Moravius Piscinus
Civis Novae Romae in Provincia Laci Magni
Retarius et Rogator Sodalitatis Latinitatis
Rogator sodalitas Musarum
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Meeting in Colorado |
| From: |
<gmvick32@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 20 Oct 2000 08:51:05 -0600 |
|
Salvete, Omnes!
I'm breaking my silence on the list to announce -- with
joy!! -- the first group meeting of Nova Romans in the
Colorado regio this weekend.
Myself, Quintus Valerius Corvus, Prima Clodia Cinnabari
(materfamilias of the Clodii), S. Clodia Thalia, and Titus
Clodius Mercurius will be converging at the coffee bar in
the Cherry Creek Tattered Cover bookstore this Sunday,
10/22, at High Noon (mountain time zone).
My thanks to Thalia for her efforts in arranging this
meeting. Any other cives in or near Colorado are welcome to
join us! (Hint, hint! Silvacola and Roxanne Cornelia....)
The Tattered Cover is a large, independent bookstore unique
to the Denver area, housing over half a million books (all
new, not used) over four floors -- with an extensive and
unique assortment of titles.
To the prosperity and growth of Nova Roma and the Colorado
regio!
Livia Cornelia Aurelia
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Materfamilias? |
| From: |
"Caius Fabius" <SPQR_HQ@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 20 Oct 2000 19:34:33 GMT |
|
I am wondering ...
"Pater/Materfamilias"
Is this another "politically correct Nova Roma thing"?
As a university trained, classical historian, I have some questions... I
have already been castigated for mentioning the Roman "empire" although
ancient writers before the first emperor of Roma used the term.
Obviously Materfamilias has no legal usage in historical Roma, for purposes
of being responsible for anything except the running of a household. I
realise that Nova Roma allows females to hold "office" and such, so is this
the Nova Roma term? What does it mean?
How can you be true to a Roman religion if you aren't true to the way people
believed? Can the Worship of the Great Mother be attended by functional
males? Next thing you know, women will want to be initiated into the rites
of Mithras! Or it the gender barrier only lowered for politics?
I guess I am too much of a conservative... no wait, that was an actual part
of historical Roma, as well.
confused...
C. Fabius Varus
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