Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Digest Number 1049 Materfamilias? correction
From:	"Catja " <ponton.3@-------->
Date:	Sun, 22 Oct 2000 02:32:59 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "Catja " <ponton.3@o...> wrote:

> Salve, Lucius Equitius Quritibus!

Ye gods, someday I will get methods of address right. I thought
about taking the name "Pyrrha" to go with my hair; it would go just
as well with my face. My apologies, L. Equitius. I warned everyone
that my Latin was rusty -- REALLY rusty. So, please ignore my stupid
Latin mistakes, and focus on the English sections of my posts, in
which I occasionally come up with something intelligent (says I) :)

Camilla Iulia Circe (blushing, but still sticking to her opinion)


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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Digest Number 1049 Materfamilias? correction
From:	"Pompeia Cornelia" <scriba_forum@-------->
Date:	Sun, 22 Oct 2000 03:08:16 GMT

Salvete Camilla et Omnibus!

Might I say that I have enjoyed your posts on this thread, Camilla,...you
write eloquently and diplomatically, as the Tribune more or less expressed
earlier today......

Latin address errors?? Hmmm......another way of expressing that would be
"Pompeia". Pompeia needs work! I was going over some recent posts of mine,
and frankly, I was having a good laugh at myself and my thwarted attempts to
get "Latinized".

So don't you worry! :)............

Marcus Apollonius Formosanus, of Sodalitas Latinitas has been kind enough to
post periodic Latin lessons to the forum for our learning, over the past 6
months or so. They are in the archives at Egroups, and I have them
reasonably handy if you or anyone else would like a repost.

And they are great lessons.....I am just a terrible student
lately...admittedly :((



Bene Valete!

Pompeia Cornelia Strabo


>From: "Catja " <ponton.3@-------->
>To: novaroma@--------
>Subject: [novaroma] Re: Digest Number 1049 Materfamilias? correction
>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 02:32:59 -0000
>
>--- In novaroma@--------, "Catja " <ponton.3@o...> wrote:
>
> > Salve, Lucius Equitius Quritibus!
>
>Ye gods, someday I will get methods of address right. I thought
>about taking the name "Pyrrha" to go with my hair; it would go just
>as well with my face. My apologies, L. Equitius. I warned everyone
>that my Latin was rusty -- REALLY rusty. So, please ignore my stupid
>Latin mistakes, and focus on the English sections of my posts, in
>which I occasionally come up with something intelligent (says I) :)
>
>Camilla Iulia Circe (blushing, but still sticking to her opinion)
>

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Subject:	[novaroma] Giant Etruscan City Unearthed
From:	Jeff Smith <JSmithCSA@-------->
Date:	Sat, 21 Oct 2000 21:25:32 -0700 (PDT)

Giant Etruscan City Unearthed

By Rossella Lorenzi,
Discovery.com News

Oct. 16, 2000 — A plain in Tuscany destined to become
a big goods yard for trucks could shed new light on
one of Europe's most mysterious lost people, the
Etruscans.
Workers digging in Gonfienti, near Prato, have
uncovered startling evidence that two meters beneath
the plain lay a big Etruscan settlement — probably the
most complete that has ever come to light in Tuscany.

"The city dates from the 5th century B.C., and is
built with a regular plan along a large road. It is
very interesting that it was built to exploit trade
across the Apennines along the road that now connects
central Italy to the north. The Etruscans anticipated
the modern railway, which runs a few meters away from
the ancient city," says Angelo Bottini, Tuscany's
superintendent of archaeology.

Living in a loose confederation of towns scattered
from the Po River in the north to Campania in the
south, the Etruscans forged Italy's most sophisticated
civilization before the Romans.

Yet mystery shrouds their history. Defeated by the
Romans in the 4th century A.D., they left no
literature to record their culture. Nobody knows where
they came from and only traces of their puzzling,
non-Indoeuropean language survive.

Only the richly decorated tombs they left behind
provide a glimpse into their world.

The city that is emerging at Gonfienti could yield
more clues. It has already solved the long-standing
mystery surrounding a votive statuette found in the
area in the 18th century and now on display at the
British Museum.

"It looked like an isolated find, instead it indicates
the presence of a sanctuary overlooking the city,"
said Gabriella Poggesi, the archaeologist in charge of
the project.

The city was laid out on a formal, rectangular plan —
on the model of the Etruscan colony of Marzabotto,
near Bologna. Houses were built along a large avenue,
while narrower street formed a grid of rectangular
city block. The houses had stone foundations, while
the walls, probably made of sun-dried bricks, held the
wooden supports of the roof, covered with tiles.

Poggesi's team has also found evidence of spinning
activities — amazingly, the Etruscans anticipated
modern Prato's famous textile activity of at least
2500 years.

"It sound like a very exciting discovery. The fact
that the Etruscans carried on this important textile
industry in the same region is very true and
interesting, " says New York University's Larissa
Bonfante, an authority on the Etruscan civilization.


=====
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Pater/Materfamilias guidelines
From:	Jeff Smith <JSmithCSA@-------->
Date:	Sat, 21 Oct 2000 22:05:01 -0700 (PDT)

--- "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@-------->
wrote:

> 1. Guidance for newbies
> 2. Promoting their Gens members via political and
> religious offices
> 3. Keeping their gens members informed on NR events
> like Sodalias and other goings on...
> 4. Approving new members
> 5. Being available to all Gens members as needed.
> 6. Conflict management between members of the same
> gens
> 7. Conflict management between members of other
> Gens.
> 8. Promotion of the Gens within NR and outside of
> NR.

This is an excellent list. There has been objection
elsewhere on the list that #5 is not possible all the
time, but I don't think that's how you meant it. As a
rule, m-/p-familias should be available to members of
their gens.

All I would add is

9. Be a good example to others.
10. Encourage education about Roma and NovaRoma.

I know that these reflect my personality, but feel
they are important enough to include on the list.

L A Dalmaticus

=====
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Subject:	[novaroma] Being a newbie and choosing Gens.
From:	Ray Jewhurst <daventhalas@-------->
Date:	Sat, 21 Oct 2000 22:44:13 -0700 (PDT)

I have only been a citizen for a few weeks. When I was
filling out my application the description for "gens"
was quite confusing to me. It said two thing that
seemed contradictory to me. First, it said it is
recommended for new citizen to join an existing gens.
Second, it said one must seek permission from the
pater/materfamilias to join a specific gens. It was
also pretty fuzzy on who could be a member of a
patrician gens. It says that the gens were given to
the early members of the empire, but I have talked to
newer members who have joined patrician gens. My
point? I didn't know how I could join an existing
gens because I didn't yet know anyone. I do agree with
the sentiment about requiring new citizen do join a
gens, but without knowing anyone how should this be
done? As far as my own solution, I arbitrarily chose
the gens name Coruncania (it was one of the few
historical gens names left that I liked the sound
of-hope that method of name choosing doesn't bother
anyone)and hoped I could make a name for myself. I
have just recently discovered that the gens Coruncania
has a very rich history including having the first
plebeian Pontifex Maximus. I will share more later.
Thank you all for allowing me to ramble.

Titus Coruncanius Rufus

=====
"Spirits fly on dangerous missions,
imaginations on fire,
focused high on soaring ambitions,
consumed in a single desire
In the grip of a nameless possesion,
a slave to the drive of obsession
a spirit with a vision is a dream with a Mission."--Rush

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Pater/Materfamilias guidelines
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla <alexious@-------->
Date:	Sat, 21 Oct 2000 20:46:11 -0700

Ave,

Thank you for your comments, I would definately include them on my list. I am glad you liked my list. :)


Jeff Smith wrote:

> --- "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@-------->
> wrote:
>
> > 1. Guidance for newbies
> > 2. Promoting their Gens members via political and
> > religious offices
> > 3. Keeping their gens members informed on NR events
> > like Sodalias and other goings on...
> > 4. Approving new members
> > 5. Being available to all Gens members as needed.
> > 6. Conflict management between members of the same
> > gens
> > 7. Conflict management between members of other
> > Gens.
> > 8. Promotion of the Gens within NR and outside of
> > NR.
>
> This is an excellent list. There has been objection
> elsewhere on the list that #5 is not possible all the
> time, but I don't think that's how you meant it. As a
> rule, m-/p-familias should be available to members of
> their gens.
>

Your right. When I put #5 in I felt it was important to be there for all your Gens members. Like in my case I
have an Gens email list in which I listen and respond to most if not all posts on there. Also, I am available to
my Gens via AIM and in email if they want to converse with me privately and on the phone. I belive that I have
spoken to most of my gens members on the phone..and will hopefully speak to all of them on the phone very quickly.
:)

>
> All I would add is
>
> 9. Be a good example to others.
> 10. Encourage education about Roma and NovaRoma.
>
> I know that these reflect my personality, but feel
> they are important enough to include on the list.
>

I agree they should be included. :)

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix


>
> L A Dalmaticus
>
> =====
> LTC JEFFREY C. SMITH
> HQ USAREUR/7A
> CMR 420, BOX 2839
> APO AE 09063-2839
>
> "Half of the world's misery comes from ignorance. The other half comes from intelligence." - Bonar Thompson
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
> http://im.yahoo.com/
>


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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Being a newbie and choosing Gens
From:	Jeff Smith <JSmithCSA@-------->
Date:	Sat, 21 Oct 2000 23:52:31 -0700 (PDT)

--- Ray Jewhurst <daventhalas@--------> wrote:
> I have only been a citizen for a few weeks. When I
> was
> filling out my application the description for
> "gens"
> was quite confusing to me. It said two thing that
> seemed contradictory to me. First, it said it is
> recommended for new citizen to join an existing
> gens.
> Second, it said one must seek permission from the
> pater/materfamilias to join a specific gens.

Unfortunately, this is really a Catch-22 for new
folks.

I see two alternatives:

1. Change the membership to allow a "nomen-less"
membership for some length of time (say, 6 months).
This time would allow one to develop and identify a
gens in which they are interested.

2. Assign a "holding nomen" for new members. This
means identifying a nomen not now in use, and
allocating it for newbies. A time limit should be set
on this to prohibit it being used forever.

3. Requiring participation on a NR list for some
length of time (again, about 6 months) prior to
applying for citizenship.

I favor the third option, but there may be a desire to
use any of the others.

Here's an example. "Joe" decides to join NR. He can
choose to be called [just] "Julius", can go by "Julius
Artorius" (Artorius being the nomen in my example,
which the Censors have allocated for new members), or
he can spend 6 months on the list, meeting people.

I admit that I feel a little uncomfortable telling an
old NR person "I know you don't know me, but I want to
join your gens because Artorius is a cool name...and I
know nothing about NovaRoma."

In order to join a gens, it must go beyond a desire to
use the same nomen. There should be shared interests,
among other things.

The whole thing needs to be looked at, as the current
system is not as good as it can be.

L A Dalmaticus

=====
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CMR 420, BOX 2839
APO AE 09063-2839

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Being a newbie and choosing Gens.
From:	"Catja " <ponton.3@-------->
Date:	Sun, 22 Oct 2000 07:06:34 -0000

Salve,
As a fellow newbie, I don't really know the official NR position, but
this is what I did, and it worked nicely.

First, I went to the list of families (_Album Gentium_), and scrolled
down the list, looking for websites, patron deities, and whether or
not that gens was accepting new members. Being both a peasant and a
snob, I decided that if I'm going to join a historical re-enactment
society, it's going to be as a decadent leisured aristocrat! :D
Therefore, I concentrated on patrician families. I looked over them
all, and gens Iulia really appealed to me -- I'm interested in the
Magna Mater and Venus, and the website was neat. Good familial
connections, too!

Next, I sent off an e-mail to the materfamilias, Vopisca Iulia
Cocceia, a very kind, intelligent, and funny woman. She wrote back
promptly, and warmly welcomed me to the gens. After that, I filled
out the citizenship form, and marked the "yes, I have permission"
box. Easy as that! My citizenship is still pending, but many Nova
Romans have sent or posted greetings, and made me feel very welcome.

Since there didn't seem to be an official procedure or form for
requesting admission to a gens, I just did what seemed most logical;
but maybe some kind of guidelines posted at the NR site would smooth
the way a bit? In the archives, there was some discussion about 1-
person gens, and newcomers founding their own families; maybe some of
them did so because, like you, they weren't certain of the procedure
for joining an existing gens. Perhaps some clarification of that
issue would be a good idea, from the more experienced citizens? I
had no trouble, but maybe others would appreciate help. What does
everyone think?

Vale,
Camilla Iulia Circe


--- In novaroma@--------, Ray Jewhurst <daventhalas@y...> wrote:
> I have only been a citizen for a few weeks. When I was
> filling out my application the description for "gens"
> was quite confusing to me. It said two thing that
> seemed contradictory to me. First, it said it is
> recommended for new citizen to join an existing gens.
> Second, it said one must seek permission from the
> pater/materfamilias to join a specific gens. It was
> also pretty fuzzy on who could be a member of a
> patrician gens. It says that the gens were given to
> the early members of the empire, but I have talked to
> newer members who have joined patrician gens. My
> point? I didn't know how I could join an existing
> gens because I didn't yet know anyone. I do agree with
> the sentiment about requiring new citizen do join a
> gens, but without knowing anyone how should this be
> done? As far as my own solution, I arbitrarily chose
> the gens name Coruncania (it was one of the few
> historical gens names left that I liked the sound
> of-hope that method of name choosing doesn't bother
> anyone)and hoped I could make a name for myself. I
> have just recently discovered that the gens Coruncania
> has a very rich history including having the first
> plebeian Pontifex Maximus. I will share more later.
> Thank you all for allowing me to ramble.
>
> Titus Coruncanius Rufus
>
> =====
> "Spirits fly on dangerous missions,
> imaginations on fire,
> focused high on soaring ambitions,
> consumed in a single desire
> In the grip of a nameless possesion,
> a slave to the drive of obsession
> a spirit with a vision is a dream with a Mission."--Rush
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
> http://im.yahoo.com/


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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Being a newbie and choosing Gens.
From:	Jeff Smith <JSmithCSA@-------->
Date:	Sun, 22 Oct 2000 00:18:12 -0700 (PDT)

--- Catja <ponton.3@--------> wrote:

> First, I went to the list of families (_Album
> Gentium_), and scrolled
> down the list, looking for websites, patron deities,
> and whether or
> not that gens was accepting new members.

> What does everyone think?

I'm glad it worked out well for you! I think you have
a good system, given the information provided in the
Albium. However, there are errors in the list (e.g.,
I have been trying to get my entry changed to say that
I am accepting members for weeks without success).
Also, the list of dieties is valuable to many, but
what of the many who have no house diety, and those
for whom the diety is not their primary interest?

L A Dalmaticus

=====
LTC JEFFREY C. SMITH
HQ USAREUR/7A
CMR 420, BOX 2839
APO AE 09063-2839

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Being a newbie and choosing Gens
From:	Jeff Smith <JSmithCSA@-------->
Date:	Sun, 22 Oct 2000 00:20:01 -0700 (PDT)

--- Jeff Smith <JSmithCSA@--------> wrote:

> I see two alternatives:
>
> 1. Change the membership ....
>
> 2. Assign a "holding nomen" ....
>
> 3. Requiring participation ....

I guess I need a good counter/proofreader in my gens!

L A Dalmaticus

=====
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HQ USAREUR/7A
CMR 420, BOX 2839
APO AE 09063-2839

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Being a newbie and choosing Gens.
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla <alexious@-------->
Date:	Sat, 21 Oct 2000 22:08:26 -0700

Jeff Smith wrote:

> --- Catja <ponton.3@--------> wrote:
>
> > First, I went to the list of families (_Album
> > Gentium_), and scrolled
> > down the list, looking for websites, patron deities,
> > and whether or
> > not that gens was accepting new members.
>
> > What does everyone think?
>
> I'm glad it worked out well for you! I think you have
> a good system, given the information provided in the
> Albium. However, there are errors in the list (e.g.,
> I have been trying to get my entry changed to say that
> I am accepting members for weeks without success).

I have emailed him privately to get this corrected. :)

>
> Also, the list of dieties is valuable to many, but
> what of the many who have no house diety, and those
> for whom the diety is not their primary interest?

We can list as many dieties as one wants. I think the record currently is 15 dieties listed. :)

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor

>
>
> L A Dalmaticus
>
> =====
> LTC JEFFREY C. SMITH
> HQ USAREUR/7A
> CMR 420, BOX 2839
> APO AE 09063-2839
>
> "Half of the world's misery comes from ignorance. The other half comes from intelligence." - Bonar Thompson
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
> http://im.yahoo.com/
>


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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Fw: [CaliforniaNovaRoma] Re: another question about citizenship and reinacting
From:	Jeff Smith <JSmithCSA@-------->
Date:	Sun, 22 Oct 2000 02:36:05 -0700 (PDT)

--- Caius Flavius Diocletianus <3s@--------> wrote:

> About auxiliary troops:
>
> During the early imperial time the commanders of
> cohortes and alae were
> usually legionary centurions with a title of
> "praepositus". From the first
> century CE onwards the commanders were usually
> members of the equestrian
> order, called "praefecti".

That's interesting. Were these centurions praepositus
or praefecti citizens of Rome?

L A Dalmaticus

=====
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CMR 420, BOX 2839
APO AE 09063-2839

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Subject:	[novaroma] Absence
From:	RexMarcius@--------
Date:	Sun, 22 Oct 2000 09:23:09 EDT

Marcus Marcius Rex omnibus salutem plurimum dicit!

This is an official notice that the governor of Germania will be on a visit
to Provincia Britannia the following week. Any affairs of the provincial
government and of course the treasured Limes cooperation are in the hands of
Caius Flavius Diocletianus. I also ask the august members of the Senate to
show patience with regard to the provincial budget. It will be prepared but
we are still looking into matters of income generation....


Ave et Vale

Marcus Marcius Rex
Propraetor Germaniae

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