| Subject: |
[novaroma] Colorado Regio Get-Together |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 26 Oct 2000 20:15:23 -0400 (EDT) |
|
Salvete, Livia Cornelia Aurelia and Regio Civs;
Congratulations on a successful get-together in your Regio. I am very
pleased with your organization and your industry in putting such
together. I trust that your meeting face to face was as rewarding as
our other regio / provincial meetings have been. Thank you for the
notification of this effort, and I encourage other regios and Provinces
to look into similar "get-togethers" when and if the opportunity offers.
Well Done Colorado Regio!!!!
Valete, Respectfully;
Marcus Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Costuming question |
| From: |
"pjane@-------- " <pjane@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 27 Oct 2000 02:05:07 -0000 |
|
Patricia Cassia Omnibus SPD,
I'm familiar with the "sinus," the Roman gentleman's pocketlike area
formed by the folds of his toga. However, I cannot find a similar
provision for ladies. Surely they needed to carry money somewhere?
Did
they hang bags from their girdles/belts, as was done in medieval
times?
If I don't mess up these last few touches, I will appear in tunica
and
stola as a Roman matron at an SCA event this weekend. I'll try to get
some pictures!
Also, did Roman women ever wear anything socklike with their sandals?
It's going to be COLD this weekend and I'm going to have to wear
something! Will regular socks do, or is there any information
available
on constructing an accurate foot covering?
Patricia Cassia
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] ATTENTION: Reprimand to Nova Roma Citizen Lucia Maria Fimbria |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:34:38 -0400 (EDT) |
|
Salvete, Senate Fathers, Magistrates, and Citizens of Nova Roma;
The duly elected Consuls of Nova Roma, having agreed upon this action,
now stand together in Forum to issue the following Reprimand.
This Reprimand was voted by the Senate of Nova Roma, to be drafted by
the Praetors and was then presented to the Senate for a series of
revisions.
This Reprimand is now issued jointly by the Consuls Q. Fabius Maximus,
and Marcus Minucius Audens.
======================================
The Senate of Nova Roma firmly condemns the offensive public actions
performed by Citizen Lucia Maria Fimbria. The Senate of Nova Roma
understands that the actions perpetrated by Citizen Lucia Maria Fimbria
could only have the objective of throwing the person and offices of
Lucius Equitius Cinninatus to public ridicule and to affect, in a
negative way, the Auctorius, Dignitas, Fides of all Nova Roma public
institutions.
The actions perpetrated by Citizen Lucia Maria Fimbria were testified by
several Citizens of Nova Roma including members of the Nova Roma Senate,
which consisted of the following:
--Impersonation of a Magistrate and Pontifex; usage of the name
"Cincinnatus" without his consent to impersonate him in a rite of
suicide.
--Negative propaganda; using the Forum Romanum
"http://pluto.beseen.com/chat/rooms/w/10275"
and other independently established lists, chatrooms and message boards
to create sentiments against the goals of Nova Roma and against her
Magistrates among Citizens and Prospective Citizens.
======================================
Both Consuls wish to thank Praetor Graecus for his efforts in drawing up
and completing the many revisions to this Reprimand.
Valete, Respectfully;
Q. Fabius Maximus and Marcus Minucius Audens--Consuls
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Digest Number 1055 |
| From: |
asseri@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 27 Oct 2000 17:19:35 EDT |
|
In a message dated 10/27/2000 12:17:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
novaroma@-------- writes:
<< lso, did Roman women ever wear anything socklike with their sandals?
It's going to be COLD this weekend and I'm going to have to wear
something! Will regular socks do, or is there any information
available
on constructing an accurate foot covering?
Patricia Cassia
>>
well i don't know about woman but i would think at socks made in the strip of
fabric fashion would apply in the case of inclimate weather. I think I
remember that low boots were also so worn but I can't recall for sure.
Olivia in Indiana
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Change of Gentile Affiliation |
| From: |
"Nick Ford" <gens_moravia@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 27 Oct 2000 22:42:24 +0100 |
|
Quiritibus salutem
Bene'st - I am returned from soggy Bremetennacum, where wild geese outnumber
people, and internet-enabled computers are scarcer than wineshops selling a
decent Setinian that hasn't been cut with elderberries
(
Now I've read all my post, I'd like to reply to this question Censor C. Marius asked recently:
> Beyond this, I believe that we need some standards to follow in the matter
> of adoptions, that is, change of gens affiliation. Since Nova Roman
> citizenship is granted by voluntary association, not by birth, I believe
> that gentiles have the right to leave gentes and seek to join others. A
> procedure for this that protects the rights of gentiles, as well as of
> patres and matres, would be very beneficial.
>
> I wonder whether any other citizens agree that a law on this subject would
> be helpful. If you do think so,
> I would be interested in suggestions on the language of such a law.
I offer this draft for general comment:
DE GENTILICIUM MUTANDIS
1. Change of gentile affiliation (i.e., of the gens to which a citizen belongs) may occur for three reasons:
a) Expulsion by the head of the gens;
b) Voluntary resignation from the gens by the member;
c) Marriage of two members of different gentes.
2. a) In the case of 1 a) above, the individual expelled shall be free to join any other gens at the discretion of the head of that gens, or to found his/her own gens;
2. b) The right of the head of the gens to admit or to expel members of his/her gens shall in no way be interpreted as according the right to retain a member of the gens within the gens against that member's will, for any reason whatsoever;
2. c) In the caseof 1. b) above, any citizen wishing to change his/her gens shall be deemed to have the same legal rights and freedoms of affiliation as any citizen applying to join a gens for the first time;
2. d) In the case of 1 c) above, the citizen intending to marry who is presumed to be of female gender (hereafter known as 'the bride'), shal
l be deemed on ratification of the marriage by the Censors to have left her
original gens, and to have joined the gens of the citizen she intends to
marry and who is presumed to be of male gender (hereafter known as 'the
bridegroom'). The bride may, on the ratification of the marriage by the
Censors, apply (provided that the permission of the head of her former gens
has been sought and granted) to retain her old gentile name as part of her
new name, thus:
Quinta Manlia Lepida, formerly of gens Manlia, may, with the permission of
the head of gens Manlia, on marriage to Caius Didius Secundus of gens Didia,
be known thereafter as Quinta Manlia Didia Lepida.
2. e) In the case of 1 c) above, the intending marriage partners must seek
the permission of the heads of both gentes concerned. If one or both
refuses, the intending bride and bridegroom may either:
i. In the case where only one head of gens has granted permission to marry,
the intending marriage partner whose head of gens has refused permission may
resign from that gens and join or form another gens, pending marriage into
his/her intended partner's gens;
ii. In the case where the heads of both gentes have refused permission to
marry, both intending marriage partners may resign from their respective
gentes and join other gentes of form their own, pending marriage. If each
joins a different gens pending marriage, the bride shall be deemed to have
entered the bridegroom's gens on marriage.
2. f) On the ratification of their marriage, the couple may elect to resign
from the bridegroom's gens at any time and form their own, new gens. In all
such cases, such applications shall be viewed by the Censors as legally
equivalent to an application by a new citizen to form a new gens.
3. a) Transfer of gens membership as stated above shall be unrestricted in
law, without regard to the rank of either gens involved. A plebeian shall
therefore be free to marry or adopt a patrician or equestrian, and vice
versa. The adopted individual shall be deemed thereafter to have the rank of
the gens into which s/he has been adopted.
3. b) Any bride from a gens joining a gens of different rank by marriage
shall thenceforth be deemed to be of the rank of the new gens. Thus, if a
plebeian bridegroom marries a patrician bride, the patrician bride joins the
gens of the bridegroom and becomes plebeian; but if a patrician bridegroom
marries a plebeian bride, the plebeian bride joins the gens of the
bridegroom and therefore becomes patrician.
Your comments on the above would be much appreciated. I would like to add
that gens Moravia has a custom of admitting (and, theoretically, by
extension, expelling) members by vote (so far, unanimously). Does any other
gens follow this custom?
Bene valete,
N. Moravius Vado
Accensus Consulis Minor.
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Change of Gentile Affiliation |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 27 Oct 2000 13:14:10 -0700 |
|
Nick Ford wrote:
> Quiritibus salutem
>
> Bene'st - I am returned from soggy Bremetennacum, where wild geese outnumber
> people, and internet-enabled computers are scarcer than wineshops selling a
> decent Setinian that hasn't been cut with elderberries
> (
>
> Now I've read all my post, I'd like to reply to this question Censor C. Marius asked recently:
>
> > Beyond this, I believe that we need some standards to follow in the matter
> > of adoptions, that is, change of gens affiliation. Since Nova Roman
> > citizenship is granted by voluntary association, not by birth, I believe
> > that gentiles have the right to leave gentes and seek to join others. A
> > procedure for this that protects the rights of gentiles, as well as of
> > patres and matres, would be very beneficial.
> >
> > I wonder whether any other citizens agree that a law on this subject would
> > be helpful. If you do think so,
> > I would be interested in suggestions on the language of such a law.
>
> I offer this draft for general comment:
>
> DE GENTILICIUM MUTANDIS
>
> 1. Change of gentile affiliation (i.e., of the gens to which a citizen belongs) may occur for three reasons:
>
> a) Expulsion by the head of the gens;
> b) Voluntary resignation from the gens by the member;
> c) Marriage of two members of different gentes.
>
> 2. a) In the case of 1 a) above, the individual expelled shall be free to join any other gens at the discretion of the head of that gens, or to found his/her own gens;
>
> 2. b) The right of the head of the gens to admit or to expel members of his/her gens shall in no way be interpreted as according the right to retain a member of the gens within the gens against that member's will, for any reason whatsoever;
>
> 2. c) In the caseof 1. b) above, any citizen wishing to change his/her gens shall be deemed to have the same legal rights and freedoms of affiliation as any citizen applying to join a gens for the first time;
>
I completely disagree with this. What is the whole point of establishing Gens, as a means of families if anyone within that family can leave at any moment. I am sorry, but I dont think this change in Pater Protestas (sp.) is a very good
change at all.
>
> 2. d) In the case of 1 c) above, the citizen intending to marry who is presumed to be of female gender (hereafter known as 'the bride'), shal
> l be deemed on ratification of the marriage by the Censors to have left her
> original gens, and to have joined the gens of the citizen she intends to
> marry and who is presumed to be of male gender (hereafter known as 'the
> bridegroom'). The bride may, on the ratification of the marriage by the
> Censors, apply (provided that the permission of the head of her former gens
> has been sought and granted) to retain her old gentile name as part of her
> new name, thus:
>
> Quinta Manlia Lepida, formerly of gens Manlia, may, with the permission of
> the head of gens Manlia, on marriage to Caius Didius Secundus of gens Didia,
> be known thereafter as Quinta Manlia Didia Lepida.
>
> 2. e) In the case of 1 c) above, the intending marriage partners must seek
> the permission of the heads of both gentes concerned. If one or both
> refuses, the intending bride and bridegroom may either:
>
> i. In the case where only one head of gens has granted permission to marry,
> the intending marriage partner whose head of gens has refused permission may
> resign from that gens and join or form another gens, pending marriage into
> his/her intended partner's gens;
>
> ii. In the case where the heads of both gentes have refused permission to
> marry, both intending marriage partners may resign from their respective
> gentes and join other gentes of form their own, pending marriage. If each
> joins a different gens pending marriage, the bride shall be deemed to have
> entered the bridegroom's gens on marriage.
>
> 2. f) On the ratification of their marriage, the couple may elect to resign
> from the bridegroom's gens at any time and form their own, new gens. In all
> such cases, such applications shall be viewed by the Censors as legally
> equivalent to an application by a new citizen to form a new gens.
>
Even here....on this one I am concerned about. Leaving a Gens altogether is something that I think should be frowned upon.
>
> 3. a) Transfer of gens membership as stated above shall be unrestricted in
> law, without regard to the rank of either gens involved. A plebeian shall
> therefore be free to marry or adopt a patrician or equestrian, and vice
> versa. The adopted individual shall be deemed thereafter to have the rank of
> the gens into which s/he has been adopted.
>
What exactly do you mean the transfer of gens membership. The examples you site here seem fine.
>
> 3. b) Any bride from a gens joining a gens of different rank by marriage
> shall thenceforth be deemed to be of the rank of the new gens. Thus, if a
> plebeian bridegroom marries a patrician bride, the patrician bride joins the
> gens of the bridegroom and becomes plebeian; but if a patrician bridegroom
> marries a plebeian bride, the plebeian bride joins the gens of the
> bridegroom and therefore becomes patrician.
>
> Your comments on the above would be much appreciated. I would like to add
> that gens Moravia has a custom of admitting (and, theoretically, by
> extension, expelling) members by vote (so far, unanimously). Does any other
> gens follow this custom?
As Paterfamilas of the Patrician Gens Cornelia, I too am open to allowing new members into my Gens. However, I subscribe to the traditional custom of the Gens in that it is a family. To me, the Gens is the most important body in ancinet
Rome. And I compare it to a blood family. And to view that certain family members can divorce themselves from the family to me is almost perposterious. I do not subcribe to that view at all.
As many of you know, I even resigned from NR briefly becuase some members of my Gens tried to do that very thing. I fought it tooth and nail and I would continue to do so. To me it would be tantamount to me divorcing my mother! That is
unthinkable. Families go through good times and bad times...but being apart of a family means to me, that we dont give up on each other and despite the bad times we might be going through, we dont just give up and join a new one. This is my
opinion, and is something that I have thought greatly about.
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Paterfamilias of the Patrician Gens Cornelia
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