Forum Romanum


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: MithraCon IV announcement
From:	"pjane@-------- " <pjane@-------->
Date:	Thu, 02 Nov 2000 01:09:03 -0000

Woo hoo! Count us in, Sibylla! We will be there with antiquities and
perhaps a presentation (we've got a whole winter to think of a topic,
right? Or perhaps we can just sing "Roman Republican" after the ale has
gone round enough times).

This is a fun event, and I recommend it to all who can manage to
attend.

Patricia Cassia

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Subject:	[novaroma] Dropping topics
From:	"pjane@-------- " <pjane@-------->
Date:	Thu, 02 Nov 2000 01:13:02 -0000

Alas, while I am heartily sick of the whole reprimand issue, I cannot
order people to shut up just because I don't find the topic personally
interesting.

I am also hamstrung a bit in my administration of this list, because
while I favor moderate and respectful disagreement as the most
effective path to learning and growth, I also must recognize the role
this list plays as the chief forum for political speech in Nova Roma.
This means occasionally restraining my impulse to shut off discussions
that have become angry, and often refraining from posting my own
opinions for fear of appearing biased as list administrator.

However, there is another option open to those who wish to move on.
Start a new topic! What Roman books have you been reading lately? What
questions do you have about Roman history and culture? What ideas do
you have for building and publicizing Nova Roma?

yours in service, as the SCA folks say,
Patricia Cassia
Curatrix Sermonem

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Subject:	[novaroma] Roman dress
From:	"pjane@-------- " <pjane@-------->
Date:	Thu, 02 Nov 2000 01:21:19 -0000

I have spent two days of the past four in Roman garb! Thanks to those
who provided advice on Roman "purses" and (especially) socks. We
attended an SCA tournament on Saturday, and I wore my white tunic (my
wedding dress!) with a purple stola (overdress) cinched at the
shoulders with brass brooches.

To carry necessary items, I made a purple drawstring bag that matched
the dress and was tied to the cord around my waist. On my feet were
Birkenstock sandals (I found a reference once for Roman women wearing
cork-soled sandals, so they seemed a reasonable choice).

Since we were either outside or in unheated buildings all day, and
since the high temperature was less than 50 degrees Fahrenheit (10
centigrade for you Europeans), the socks were crucial! A pair of gray
ragg wool socks from L.L. Bean seemed reasonably authentic and did
admirable service.

Unfortunately, because of the cold I had to spend most of the day
covered up in a non-period wool cloak. So, because I was rather proud
of having made the stola, I wore the whole outfit again to work
yesterday (they were having a dress-up contest for Halloween).

I found this outfit to be modest, comfortable and dignified. I can't
imagine why women stopped wearing stuff like this.

My next challenge: Figuring out an authentic Roman hairstyle that can
be achieved easily and quickly, and can stay in place for a day of re-
enacting.

P. Cassia

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Roman dress
From:	<gmvick32@-------->
Date:	Wed, 01 Nov 2000 19:07:25 -0700

Ohhh...Patricia Cassia, but are there pictures??? (Livia itches to get into
a stola...)

A related question.....is Roman garb worn at Mithracon?? I'm going to try
to make the trek east for the event.

Livia Cornelia Aurelia

"pjane@--------" wrote:

> I have spent two days of the past four in Roman garb! Thanks to those
> who provided advice on Roman "purses" and (especially) socks. We
> attended an SCA tournament on Saturday, and I wore my white tunic (my
> wedding dress!) with a purple stola (overdress) cinched at the
> shoulders with brass brooches.
>
> To carry necessary items, I made a purple drawstring bag that matched
> the dress and was tied to the cord around my waist. On my feet were
> Birkenstock sandals (I found a reference once for Roman women wearing
> cork-soled sandals, so they seemed a reasonable choice).
>
> Since we were either outside or in unheated buildings all day, and
> since the high temperature was less than 50 degrees Fahrenheit (10
> centigrade for you Europeans), the socks were crucial! A pair of gray
> ragg wool socks from L.L. Bean seemed reasonably authentic and did
> admirable service.
>
> Unfortunately, because of the cold I had to spend most of the day
> covered up in a non-period wool cloak. So, because I was rather proud
> of having made the stola, I wore the whole outfit again to work
> yesterday (they were having a dress-up contest for Halloween).
>
> I found this outfit to be modest, comfortable and dignified. I can't
> imagine why women stopped wearing stuff like this.
>
> My next challenge: Figuring out an authentic Roman hairstyle that can
> be achieved easily and quickly, and can stay in place for a day of re-
> enacting.
>
> P. Cassia
>

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Roman dress
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Wed, 1 Nov 2000 18:08:00 -0800

I had a site that had pictures of Roman Clothing. If anyone is interested I
can find that link and repost it.

Sulla Felix

----- Original Message -----
From: <gmvick32@-------->
To: <pjane@-------->
Cc: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 6:07 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Roman dress

> Ohhh...Patricia Cassia, but are there pictures??? (Livia itches to get
into
> a stola...)
>
> A related question.....is Roman garb worn at Mithracon?? I'm going to try
> to make the trek east for the event.
>
> Livia Cornelia Aurelia
>
>
>
> "pjane@--------" wrote:
>
> > I have spent two days of the past four in Roman garb! Thanks to those
> > who provided advice on Roman "purses" and (especially) socks. We
> > attended an SCA tournament on Saturday, and I wore my white tunic (my
> > wedding dress!) with a purple stola (overdress) cinched at the
> > shoulders with brass brooches.
> >
> > To carry necessary items, I made a purple drawstring bag that matched
> > the dress and was tied to the cord around my waist. On my feet were
> > Birkenstock sandals (I found a reference once for Roman women wearing
> > cork-soled sandals, so they seemed a reasonable choice).
> >
> > Since we were either outside or in unheated buildings all day, and
> > since the high temperature was less than 50 degrees Fahrenheit (10
> > centigrade for you Europeans), the socks were crucial! A pair of gray
> > ragg wool socks from L.L. Bean seemed reasonably authentic and did
> > admirable service.
> >
> > Unfortunately, because of the cold I had to spend most of the day
> > covered up in a non-period wool cloak. So, because I was rather proud
> > of having made the stola, I wore the whole outfit again to work
> > yesterday (they were having a dress-up contest for Halloween).
> >
> > I found this outfit to be modest, comfortable and dignified. I can't
> > imagine why women stopped wearing stuff like this.
> >
> > My next challenge: Figuring out an authentic Roman hairstyle that can
> > be achieved easily and quickly, and can stay in place for a day of re-
> > enacting.
> >
> > P. Cassia
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Subject:	[novaroma] Response to Germanicus
From:	"M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@-------->
Date:	Wed, 1 Nov 2000 21:54:10 +0100

M. Apollonius Formosanus Marco Octavio Germanico et omnibus
Quiritibus S.P.D.

I would like to respond to your comments, Octavi Germanice. I assume
that you hold the Senator in high esteem, and I do not wish to
belittle that, not do I wish to have to spend the rest of my life
attacking him. However, he has been a central figure in the
misfortunes that have befallen a friend of mine, Lucius Marius
Fimbria, a private citizen who has been victimised by the powerful,
and I cannot rest until this harm is reversed.

Salve Marce Apolloni,

> RESPONDEO: I am not presuming to judge with any finality whether
>you really deserved the attentions of the curator.

Perhaps, then, you should withdraw the statement that Lucius Marius
was "obliged" to discipline Lucius Equitius.

MAF: I would be happy to amend my statement to "felt obliged" if the
insertion of that element of personal judgment would please you,
Octavi.

> I note that you do not
> consider them fair, which tends to confirm that you indeed are
> motivated by hostile feelings generated by that perception and
> directed towards Marius, and that is the thing important for my
> argument.

But it does indicate that the "systematic harassment" may not have
been unprovoked and unwarranted, that instead it was a battle between
two strong-willed individuals, with as much harassment coming from
Lucius Marius as from Lucius Equitius.

MAF: Marius was acting as curator semonis. Most criminals probably
feel some resentment towards the police and judge if convicted, but
that but that does not prove that the police or judge are
necessarily acting improperly or on the basis of their own big egos.
(Although they might be - still it is far from proven.) (I do *not*
intend to compare Cincinnatus to a criminal by this example.)

> RESPONDEO: Yes, it is my opinion, which I stand by. A valid
> application for citizenship was received, with Marius' being forced
> to write a form of his name incorrect as to gender due to Sulla's
> intolerant legislation.

The form of name required on the application is consistent with
Marius' legal identity in the macronation in which he resides. There
is nothing intolerant about requiring that the one correspond to
the other.

MAF: When the macronational practice is prejudiced and
discriminatory, forcing persons to follow the practice here in Nova
Roma is discriminatory also. We should do better, not imitate the
bad.

> Such a valid application should have simply been processsed
>normally, not carried to the Senate so that someone (you) could
>settle old scores

No application for readmission of a citizen can be processed
"normally". Each is a special case that should be examined carefully.

MAF: I quite disagree with that opinion. That is introducing
discrimination against returnees just because they are returnees.

Early this year, the traitor Marconius slipped in and regained
citizenship while the sole Censor happened to be extremely busy - his
readmission caused considerable chaos on the list, with one valued
citizen resigning in disgust and another leaving the list for several
months. The Censors should evaluate the potential consequences of
any readmission so that this never happens again.

MAF: If a person has been expelled for execrable conduct - conduct so
bad that it deserves expulsion - I quite concur that in *that*
special case some legal consideration might be given before
readmission. Marius was a voluntary exile, never convicted of a
capital crime.

> 4. When Marius so listed himself and made a perfectly valid
> citizenship application, supposedly satisfying Censor Sulla's
> bigoted notions of sexual propriety,

The accusation of bigotry is unwarranted.

MAF: The bigotry I refer to is that in the Gender Edictum and its
successor.

It is Marius' past actions - those same actions that earned the
reprimand - that were a barrier to reentry.

MAF: (1) Marius was in Nova Roma for months between the private
"assassination" playlet for which Cincinnatus attacked him and his
voluntary departure and nobody bothered to prosecute him then. It
could have been put off a bit longer until he was settled in again.
(2) If, I say IF, Marius ever said anything "negative" in the
Taverna, it must surely pale in its width of dissemination and force
to what I and many others have said to the world on this Main List as
a result of this abominable persecution of him. And free speech is in
any case to be cherished, including that used to provide negative
feedbnack to insensitive officials and institutions. (3) The only
other thing, the brief impersonation of Cincinnatus in the Taverna,
was done on April Fools' Day, for goodness' sake!

That Marius might be asked to apologise to Cincinnatus (not as a
condition for citizenship, but as a piece of good counsel) would have
been reasonable, but Marius had done nothing clearly against Nova
Roman law, and none of the above should be considered by sane men and
women be considered an "impediment" to return to citizenship.

> the censor did not process it {the citizenship application}
>normally, but on his own initiative went to the Senate

As was right and proper, he asked for advice from the Senate. Sulla
recognized the political ramifications of permitting or denying
Marius' re-entry, and, rather than acting alone, negotiated with
the Senate to find a solution, a plan under which Marius could
return.

MAF: Making it into a political matter is exactly where the mistake
lies. There is nothing political about letting a voluntary exile
return - or shouldn't be. It should be bureaucratic routine. Making
it political is what let Cincinnatus' malice into it.

> RESPONDEO: I do not have personal access to senatorial records due
to
> the policy of secrecy of the Senate. However, from my sources with
> access I have heard descriptions which testified to the extreme
> emotionality,

Perhaps Lucius Equitius was emotional as a result of his harassment
by Marius. Who wouldn't be, after being impersonated in a "rite of
suicide"?

MAF: It was an informal, spontaneous enactment of assassination, not
suicide (not that it makes much difference, I suppose!) in a
completely private place not really within Nova Roma, by
high-spirited people irritated with Cincinnatus as consul. Long, long
before Marius' return, so Cincinnatus should have had time to calm
down. Not a "rite". "Play". One would think that you and Cincinnatus
had never watched children playing!

> I rather think that an apology, such as you received from Marius,
> carries with it the implicit hope of forgiveness.

> If in fact you did not so orate in the Senate, then why don't you
> publish here or post in some public place the *complete* set of
> speeches you made in the Senate relating to Marius?

He should not be expected to this. We all say things to our friends
or to small groups that we would not have repeated to a larger
audience.

MAF: I do not expect him to do it. I am sure that he realises that if
he did, everyone would quickly see with absolute clarity the degree
of obsessiveness and ill-will he lavished on the cause of destroying
Marius' reputation and disempowering him. And the Senate is hardly
just "friends" or any old "small group". It is supposed to be the
place where the greatest probity, wisdom and moderation in the
Respublica rule the speakers and voters. I have not received the
impression that Senator Cincinnatus' words there meet those standards
insofar as they touched upon Marius.

> RESPONDEO: Quite right - but I did not express my opinion of you
>in this statement (as a careful reading will show)

I think "moral idiocy" would qualify as an opinion. But, as we all
seem to agree, a negative opinion is not a prosecutable offence.

MAF: It is indeed an opinion, one of judgement. Marius, however, was
officially attacked for supposedly saying much milder "negative"
things in a place much more private than this. So, for some people a
negative opinion is an "impediment" to citizenship - so we do not
really all agree.

> Let us remember that President Clinton, to mention just one
> macronational statesman, has had many satirical comedy sketches and
> skits written and performed about him, and no one would think well
> of him if he tried to use the Senate, Army, FBI or even the courts
> against those writing and performing them.

It is a felony to threaten the life of the president, even when
it's obviously a joke. Plays about the murder or suicide of the
president would, at the very least, be investigated by the
secret service.

MAF: Please have a sense of reality and proportion! If three or five
people in a private living room, rabid Republicans, acted out a
little assassination one evening in fun on the spur of the moment for
five minutes, and mentioned it to acquaintances the next day with a
chuckle, it is highly doubtful that the Secret Service would be
likely to check it out. And that is the analogue of the situation
here.

> NOTE that Marius publically apologised to Cincinnatus right here on
> the main list. (To which Cincinnatus replied most ungraciously that
> he did not want one!)

After the Senate demanded it. If he had apologized when Lucius
Equitius first learned of the incident, it could be considered
sincere.

MAF: I am afraid that there is simply a vast gap of perspective here.
To Marius and the other participants (who are apparently not being
prosecuted in any way, although they wielded the imaginary weapons
while Marius just got cut up, as he was the one playing Cincinnatus)
this was PLAY. When they mentioned to people later what they had
done in the party, I am sure that it was with a sense of innocence.
When the idea surfaced, which seems to have been months later, that
Cincinnatus was *upset*, their reaction was no doubt a certain glee,
since they disliked him, after all. When it became clear that he was
*seriously* upset and deeply offended, they interpreted such a
reaction as yet another indication that Cincinnatus had no
understanding of fun and humour, and took himself entirely too
seriously. Which were the characteristics that unendeared him to them
originally and encouraged their tendency to take him even less
seriously.

I myself think that it almost never hurts to apologise if someone's
feelings are hurt by accident, and Marius too was quite willing to
agree when asked by the Senate. His apology is perfectly sincere.
However, he and many others consider Cinncinatus' apparently real
hurt and offense to be a serious and even grotesque overreaction to
what really happened.

Marius commited no crime, as impersonation was not a crime in Nova
Roma. He was having fun with friends. He does not feel any awful
guilt about that that would force him to take the initiative in
apologising to a disagreeable enemy who would not even want or accept
the apology - as you seem to want in retrospect, mi Octavi. His
(unwanted and unaccepted) apology is for causing mental hurt to
Cincinnatus or anybody else *unintentionally* in the course of play
that he and his companions considered in and of itself essentially
innocent and normal.

> If we get into the habit of refusing to accept apologies and not
>allowing our one-time enemies to resume more normal
> relations with us, we are doing a disservice not only to our
>personal relationships but to the community in which we live.

I agree with this - but sometimes there cannot ever be a return to
normal relations, when the enmity has lasted for months.

MAF: By "normal" in this case I simply meant that Cincinnatus would
stop using his Senatorial power to crush Marius like a fly - a matter
of negative restraint rather than positive love - and that the two
might occasionally address a polite word to one another. I would not
hope for more than that either - but *that* would already be a great
improvement.

> MAF: I have previously written here about how the charming and
> interesting letters of Marius on the main list (before he was
>shoved aside from normal participation by sexual bigotry and
>Cincinnatan vindictiveness),

Marius was indeed a charming and interesting citizen. It is
unfortunate that he chose to leave due to a perceived "bigotry"
that did not exist.

MAF: I think that if you were forced to use a female name because
someone thought he had an "objective" criterion for judging you
female, you would consider it a violation of your fundamental rights
as a human person. That Marius feels the same is natural.

> (Consider too that Cincinnatus once actually pulled off a coup
> against the Respublica and was allowed back by the Dictator with no
> Reprimand or censorial nota. But he does not want to pass on the
> clemency that he received.)

Clemency? He was deprived of his Consulship and forbidden to hold
elected office. In spite of this, he chose to continue to serve
Nova Roma as Senator, Pontifex and Flamen. Lucius Equitius
Cincinnatus is one of the hardest working and most loyal men in Rome.

MAF: The "clemency" I refer to is his being allowed back after his
attempted coup *at all*. The point here is not "loyalty", but decency
to other people. Even if he regards Marius as an enemy, it is wrong
to put so much effort into a campaign to damage a simple citizen.

I am sure Cincinnatus is hard working and dedicated, but some other
virtues are necessary too!

Valete!
.

Marcus Apollonius Formosanus
Paterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae (http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/)
Moderator et Praeceptor Sodalitatis Latinitatis; Scriba Censorius � � � � � � �
ICQ# 61698049 Firetalk: Apollonius 1588367
AIM: MAFormosanus � � � � � � �MSN: Formosanus
Civis Novae Romae in Silesia, Polonia
The Gens Apollonia is open to new members.
Ave nostra Respublica Libera - Nova Roma!
________________________________________
Si vis omnia tibi subicere, te subice Rationi. (Seneca)
(Se vi deziras subigi al vi chion, subigu vin al Racio)
________________________________________

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Subject:	[novaroma] Maps of Nova Roma
From:	"Marcos Boehme" <m_arminius@-------->
Date:	Thu, 02 Nov 2000 02:28:41 -0300

Salvete, Omnes !

Months ago, i decided to make something like a hall of maps to Nova Roma. Now, the work is finished (by now), and i invite you, cives, to take a look at:

www.angelfire.com/scifi/nrbras/nr4.htm

There is a list of provinces and macronations (regions with NR citizens, but not yet a province estabilished by Senate), with the number of citizens and senators, obtained in Album Civium, Album Senatorium and Album Provincium.
Below, we see mapa-mundi, with provinces depicted in orange and NR-macronations in yellow.
At last, a map for every continent (or more: there are two for Asia, and three for America)

I thought that it will be very difficult to expand over Africa or Asia. But, amazingly, it seems that we have some novaromans there.

Please, feel free to send comments or critics. I expect to update this page every month.

Thanks

Marcus Arminius Maior
Provincia Brasilia

Get FREE Email/Voicemail with 15MB at Lycos Communications at http://comm.lycos.com

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Maps of Nova Roma
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Wed, 1 Nov 2000 21:32:01 -0800

And that map is currently before the Senate of Nova Roma, to see if we can
adopt it to the NR website....as opposed to the maps we currently have
listed. :)

L. Cornelius Sulla Felix

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marcos Boehme" <m_arminius@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 9:28 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Maps of Nova Roma

> Salvete, Omnes !
>
>
> Months ago, i decided to make something like a hall of maps to Nova Roma.
Now, the work is finished (by now), and i invite you, cives, to take a look
at:
>
> www.angelfire.com/scifi/nrbras/nr4.htm
>
> There is a list of provinces and macronations (regions with NR citizens,
but not yet a province estabilished by Senate), with the number of citizens
and senators, obtained in Album Civium, Album Senatorium and Album
Provincium.
> Below, we see mapa-mundi, with provinces depicted in orange and
NR-macronations in yellow.
> At last, a map for every continent (or more: there are two for Asia, and
three for America)
>
> I thought that it will be very difficult to expand over Africa or Asia.
But, amazingly, it seems that we have some novaromans there.
>
> Please, feel free to send comments or critics. I expect to update this
page every month.
>
> Thanks
>
> Marcus Arminius Maior
> Provincia Brasilia
>
>
>
> Get FREE Email/Voicemail with 15MB at Lycos Communications at
http://comm.lycos.com
>
>
>
>
>

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Subject:	[novaroma] ATTENTION: PLEBEIANS
From:	dougies@--------
Date:	Thu, 02 Nov 2000 05:42:05 -0000

Ave quirite et pater conscript,

I am posting this message in the hope that you (plebeians) will all
write to me with your opinions and so forth on the topic.

I have been considering the idea of creating a chat room to act as a
sort of a Comitia Plebis. The reason for this is that the main list is
becoming crowded with debates, the normal citizens have little
interaction (other than reading the main list dispatches), and it is a
long process trying to get the ideas of everyone heard. The chat room
will allow a running, continuously updatable discussion on topics,
issues and ideas. On specific days (posted on the main list) the
tribunes would set these aside for discussion and passing of laws and
bills, or to have them passed on to the senate for discussion. At
first, I felt that this made it seem a bit elitist, but I have found
that the patricians have equal methods under their grasp (I am not
trying to make the patricians sound like tyrants, far fom it. I know
that many of them are great people (Lucius Cornelius and Livia
Cornelia as an example)). All I ask, is that plebeians who read this
e-mail me back with ideas on how it could be implemented and governed
(especially since we can't ask the tribunes to constantly see over the
assembly...they are only human after all).

Please write to me you ideas or opinions about this. They will be
greatly appreciated.

Ave, atque, vale for now,

Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura

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Subject:	[novaroma] Out Of Town
From:	jmath669642reng@--------
Date:	Thu, 2 Nov 2000 00:49:11 -0500 (EST)

Salve, Citizens of Nova Roma;

I will be out of town for the next few days in Asbury Park, NJ, and Fort
Washington, PA. attending some reenactments. On Friday and Early
Saturday I will be in Asbury Park in or nearby the Berkly-Carteret Hotel
as a guest of General U.S. Grant in the Federal Civil War Camp, should
anyone wish to visit. My character for this event will be a Federal
Naval Commander, by the name of Brian McKay. Later on Saturday and
Sunday, I will be in the British Camp at Hope Lodge, in Fort Washington,
PA, with the British 42nd Regiment of Foot (Black Watch-Reenactment
Regmt.). My character for this event will be the Adjutant of the 42nd
Regiment of Foot--Captain-Lt. Ian McKay

Both of these reenactments are open to the public, and if there are any
NR people close by, I hope that you will be able to visit at least
briefly, and say hello.

Vale, Respectfully;
Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Dropping topics
From:	"Caius Flavius Diocletianus" <3s@-------->
Date:	Thu, 2 Nov 2000 08:43:23 +0100

Salvete Quirites, salve P. Cassia.

Good posting, Curatrix. You�re right: This list is the main political forum
for our republic. Shutting off political discussions is the wrong way. As a
democratic republic, Nova Roma should be able to maintain an open process of
political communication.

Valete
Caius Flavius Diocletianus

----- Original Message -----
From: <pjane@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 2:13 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Dropping topics

> Alas, while I am heartily sick of the whole reprimand issue, I cannot
> order people to shut up just because I don't find the topic personally
> interesting.
>
> I am also hamstrung a bit in my administration of this list, because
> while I favor moderate and respectful disagreement as the most
> effective path to learning and growth, I also must recognize the role
> this list plays as the chief forum for political speech in Nova Roma.
> This means occasionally restraining my impulse to shut off discussions
> that have become angry, and often refraining from posting my own
> opinions for fear of appearing biased as list administrator.
>
> However, there is another option open to those who wish to move on.
> Start a new topic! What Roman books have you been reading lately? What
> questions do you have about Roman history and culture? What ideas do
> you have for building and publicizing Nova Roma?
>
> yours in service, as the SCA folks say,
> Patricia Cassia
> Curatrix Sermonem
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Subject:	[novaroma] That Reprimand Thing
From:	"M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@-------->
Date:	Thu, 2 Nov 2000 09:12:27 +0100

M. Apollonius Formosanus Lucio Avisio S.P.D.

You write:

I don't wish to offend any NR citizens but I
know that i'm not the only one when I say...
This repremand thing is getting VERY old!!
Can we please move on???
All I ask is we fix it so this never happens again.

Gratias Vobis ago
Lucius Avisius

It may be old, but it has not been solved yet, and the only way we
common citizens can defend ourselves when necessary is by expressing
ourselves with *persistence* on the Main List.

I would like to see it fixed too - and not only so that it never
happens again, but so that the person who has been harmed through an
injustice - or series of them - will be restored to his normal
dignitas again and be able to stand free and proud with the rest of
us.

So, bear with me and the others working on this. Patience in wading
through the politics on the Main List is the price for being a
citizen in a free community.

Gratias et vale. amice!

Marcus Apollonius Formosanus
Paterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae (http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/)
Moderator et Praeceptor Sodalitatis Latinitatis; Scriba Censorius � � � � � � �
ICQ# 61698049 Firetalk: Apollonius 1588367
AIM: MAFormosanus � � � � � � �MSN: Formosanus
Civis Novae Romae in Silesia, Polonia
The Gens Apollonia is open to new members.
Ave nostra Respublica Libera - Nova Roma!
________________________________________
Si vis omnia tibi subicere, te subice Rationi. (Seneca)
(Se vi deziras subigi al vi chion, subigu vin al Racio)
________________________________________

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Subject:	[novaroma] Legatus of Pannonia Superior - Oath of Office
From:	"=?iso-8859-1?B?TGV2ZW50ZSBM4XN6bPM=?=" <mithridates@-------->
Date:	Thu, 02 Nov 2000 09:42:38 -0000

I, MARCUS GRYLLUS ANTONIUS VICTORINUS, DO HEREBY SOLEMNLY SWEAR TO
UPHOLD THE HONOUR OF NOVA ROMA, AND TO ACT ALWAYS IN THE BEST
INTERESTS OF THE PEOPLE AND THE SENATE OF NOVA ROMA.

AS LEGATUS OF PANNONIA SUPERIOR I, M. GRYLLUS A. VICTORINUS, SWEAR TO
DO HONOUR TO THE ALL THE GODS AND BELIEFS WITHIN NOVA ROMA IN MY
PUBLIC DEALINGS, AND TO PURSUE THE ROMAN VIRTUES IN MY PUBLIC AND
PRIVATE LIFE.

I, M. GRYLLUS A. VICTORINUS, FURTHER SWEAR TO FULFIL THE OBLIGATIONS
AND RESPONSIBILITIES OF THE OFFICE OF LEGATUS PANNONIAE SUPERIORIS TO
THE BEST OF MY ABILITIES.

ON MY HONOUR AS A CITIZEN OF NOVA ROMA, AND IN THE PRESENCE OF THE
GODS AND GODDESSES OF THE ROMAN PEOPLE, AND BY THEIR WILL AND FAVOUR
DO I ACCEPT THE POSITION OF LEGATUS PANNONIAE SUPERIORIS AND ALL THE
RIGHTS, PRIVILEGES, OBLIGATIONS AND RESPONSIBILITIES ATTENDANT
THERETO.

�n, Marcus Gryllus Antonius Victorinus ezennel �nnep�lyesen
megfogadom, hogy tisztelni fogom �j R�m�t, �s mindig �j R�ma n�pe �s
Szen�tusa �rdek�ben fogok cselekedni.
Mint Pannonia Superior Legatusa esk�sz�m, hogy cselekedeteimben
tiszteletben tartom �j R�ma szellem�t, az isteneket �s a k�l�nf�le
hitvall�st, mag�n �s k�z�letemben szem el�tt tartom R�ma �rt�keit.
�n, M. Gryllus A. Victorinus esk�sz�m, hogy teljes�teni fogom Pannonia
Superiornak legatusi hivatal�b�l eredend� k�teless�geimet a
legjobb tud�som �s lelkiismeretem szerint.
Mint �j R�ma polg�ra, megtisztelve �rzem magam, hogy R�ma nemzet�nek
szellem�ben �s akarata szerint elfogadhatom Pannonia Superior
Legatus�nak posztj�t �s az �sszes jogot, k�teless�get �s felel�ss�get,
amely e poszt visel�s�b�l ered.

Ja Marcus Gryllus Antonius Victorinus tymto slavnostne prisaham ctit
si Noveho Rima a konat vzdy v najlepsich zaujmoch ludu a Senatu Noveho
Rima.
Ako Legatus Pannoniae Superioris, prisaham ctit si vsetkych bohov a
nabozenstiev Rima v mojich verejnych skutkoch a presadzovat Rimske
hodnoty v mojom sukromnom a verejnom zivote.
Ja M. Gryllus A. Victorinus prisaham plnit povinnosti uradu Legata
Pannoniae Superioris podla svojho najlepsieho vedomia a svedomia.
Je mi ctou ako obcana Noveho Rima, v pritomnosti bohov Rimskeho naroda
a podla ich voli a priazne prijat post Legata Pannoniae Superioris a
vsetky prava, povinnosti a zodpovednosti, vyplyvajuce z neho.

M. Gryllus Antonius Victorinus

Legatus Pannoniae Superioris

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Legatus of Pannonia Superior - Oath of Office
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla <alexious@-------->
Date:	Thu, 02 Nov 2000 03:15:42 -0800

Congrats on your appointment! :)

You are working for a very good governor...the very best of good fellows!

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor

Levente L�szl� wrote:

> I, MARCUS GRYLLUS ANTONIUS VICTORINUS, DO HEREBY SOLEMNLY SWEAR TO
> UPHOLD THE HONOUR OF NOVA ROMA, AND TO ACT ALWAYS IN THE BEST
> INTERESTS OF THE PEOPLE AND THE SENATE OF NOVA ROMA.
>
> AS LEGATUS OF PANNONIA SUPERIOR I, M. GRYLLUS A. VICTORINUS, SWEAR TO
> DO HONOUR TO THE ALL THE GODS AND BELIEFS WITHIN NOVA ROMA IN MY
> PUBLIC DEALINGS, AND TO PURSUE THE ROMAN VIRTUES IN MY PUBLIC AND
> PRIVATE LIFE.
>
> I, M. GRYLLUS A. VICTORINUS, FURTHER SWEAR TO FULFIL THE OBLIGATIONS
> AND RESPONSIBILITIES OF THE OFFICE OF LEGATUS PANNONIAE SUPERIORIS TO
> THE BEST OF MY ABILITIES.
>
> ON MY HONOUR AS A CITIZEN OF NOVA ROMA, AND IN THE PRESENCE OF THE
> GODS AND GODDESSES OF THE ROMAN PEOPLE, AND BY THEIR WILL AND FAVOUR
> DO I ACCEPT THE POSITION OF LEGATUS PANNONIAE SUPERIORIS AND ALL THE
> RIGHTS, PRIVILEGES, OBLIGATIONS AND RESPONSIBILITIES ATTENDANT
> THERETO.
>
> �n, Marcus Gryllus Antonius Victorinus ezennel �nnep�lyesen
> megfogadom, hogy tisztelni fogom �j R�m�t, �s mindig �j R�ma n�pe �s
> Szen�tusa �rdek�ben fogok cselekedni.
> Mint Pannonia Superior Legatusa esk�sz�m, hogy cselekedeteimben
> tiszteletben tartom �j R�ma szellem�t, az isteneket �s a k�l�nf�le
> hitvall�st, mag�n �s k�z�letemben szem el�tt tartom R�ma �rt�keit.
> �n, M. Gryllus A. Victorinus esk�sz�m, hogy teljes�teni fogom Pannonia
> Superiornak legatusi hivatal�b�l eredend� k�teless�geimet a
> legjobb tud�som �s lelkiismeretem szerint.
> Mint �j R�ma polg�ra, megtisztelve �rzem magam, hogy R�ma nemzet�nek
> szellem�ben �s akarata szerint elfogadhatom Pannonia Superior
> Legatus�nak posztj�t �s az �sszes jogot, k�teless�get �s felel�ss�get,
> amely e poszt visel�s�b�l ered.
>
> Ja Marcus Gryllus Antonius Victorinus tymto slavnostne prisaham ctit
> si Noveho Rima a konat vzdy v najlepsich zaujmoch ludu a Senatu Noveho
> Rima.
> Ako Legatus Pannoniae Superioris, prisaham ctit si vsetkych bohov a
> nabozenstiev Rima v mojich verejnych skutkoch a presadzovat Rimske
> hodnoty v mojom sukromnom a verejnom zivote.
> Ja M. Gryllus A. Victorinus prisaham plnit povinnosti uradu Legata
> Pannoniae Superioris podla svojho najlepsieho vedomia a svedomia.
> Je mi ctou ako obcana Noveho Rima, v pritomnosti bohov Rimskeho naroda
> a podla ich voli a priazne prijat post Legata Pannoniae Superioris a
> vsetky prava, povinnosti a zodpovednosti, vyplyvajuce z neho.
>
> M. Gryllus Antonius Victorinus
>
> Legatus Pannoniae Superioris
>

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Subject:	[novaroma] Simplicity
From:	"Morrison" <morrison@-------->
Date:	Wed, 3 Nov 1999 23:19:11 +1100

Salutations All !

May the Gods smile favourably on you all and find you well, happy and safe. Actually after weeks of wading through Nova Roma e mails via egroups I would like to ask since "The Eagle" doesn't seem to reach us here in Australia could somebody think about doing every so often a factual update on Nova Roma going on's??
Actually we here get rather confused at the tons and tons of e mails yet rarely do we actually get a clear picture of the whole of Nova Roma. A net Newsletter would be wonderful actually !!!
Here in Australia Paulus Olympius Gallus has been ill so we've been slow in getting things together. We have our own little Newsletter starting called "Lictor". We've had some great get togethers with members sharing everything from traditional Roman foods to exhibitions of Military arms, also Ancient coins.
Togas are being made for more planned gatherings and although we may seem hillbilly in comparison to the rest of the world we're expanding the Roman ideal and values. Local college students are joining in too. Our members though not numerous have talents ranging from Latin through Classical History expertise.
That's the news from down under so to speak.

For Roma and the Gods

Lucinda Olympus Gallia

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Simplicity
From:	"Daniel" <danat2000@-------->
Date:	Thu, 2 Nov 2000 22:59:32 +1030

Salve,

'We have our own little Newsletter starting called "Lictor". '

Thats great, could you give me some information on how to subscribe to this
if possible. BTW what city are these gatherings in (or am I the ONLY NR
cive
in SA!!)

Vale
Marcus Arcadius Pius
Pontiff

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Simplicity
From:	marcusaemiliusscaurus@--------
Date:	Thu, 02 Nov 2000 12:30:44 -0000

Salvete Quirites,

I think this is a great idea. I also think it would be good if we
had a post of editor (In latin!) and various magistrates could
contribute to it. For instance, the Censors could list all new
citizens arrived and those few who have left, the Tribunes could
inform us of the conclusions of Senate meetings. Once we get the
laws up on judicial subjects, the Praetors could inform us of all the
results of the courtcases. The governors of Provincae could tell us
of any major events in those provincia.

And then individual citizens could submit articles or whatever they
preferred. Obviously the editor would have to simply wade through
this and turn it into a newsletter, possibly using Publisher or
Powerpoint.

I think the Newsletter would have to bew monthly at least, or
possibly bi-monthly, otherwise it would add too much to the
magistrates' workload.

So, what does everyone think? Should we have an election to find our
new... Editorus? ;-)

Valete,
Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus.
(Proud knower of five latin words!)

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Roman dress
From:	"pjane@-------- " <pjane@-------->
Date:	Thu, 02 Nov 2000 12:41:32 -0000

> A related question.....is Roman garb worn at Mithracon?? I'm going to try
> to make the trek east for the event.

Woo hoo! We would love to see you! Roman dress is not worn on the
streets of New Haven, but we might have a Roman Clothing session in the
evening. What do you think, Sibylla, would that freak out the hotel
folks (and other Mithraists) too much?

Patricia Cassia

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Maps of Nova Roma
From:	"pjane@-------- " <pjane@-------->
Date:	Thu, 02 Nov 2000 12:45:20 -0000

Marcus Arminius, those are great! Graecus, could we either establish a
link to this page or arrange for Marcus Arminius' information to be
posted on the NR site?

Patricia Cassia

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Maps of Nova Roma
From:	"pjane@-------- " <pjane@-------->
Date:	Thu, 02 Nov 2000 12:49:16 -0000

Oops, sorry, I posted before I saw Sulla's post about having these
adopted onto the site officially. (Is that necessary? Doesn't the
webmaster get to make ordinary content decisions?)

Patricia Cassia

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Subject:	[novaroma] Welcomed!!!!
From:	"Morrison" <morrison@-------->
Date:	Wed, 3 Nov 1999 23:51:38 +1100

S.P.Q.R !!!!

All of those interested Paulus can be contacted :

Paulus Olympus Gallus
30 Perrins Street
Daylesford Vic

Tel : 03 53 48 2965

We have a few members in SA too !!!!!! Especially of the Religio interest all are welcome to contact us :-)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[novaroma] Legatus - Introduction
From:	"=?iso-8859-1?B?TGV2ZW50ZSBM4XN6bPM=?=" <mithridates@-------->
Date:	Thu, 02 Nov 2000 14:16:10 -0000

M. Gryllus A. Victorinus omnibus Novoromanis S. P. D.

As the new Legatus Pannoniae Superioris I'd like to introduce myself.
I'm a 23-years-old university student in Budapest, Hungary. I study
Greek and Latin languages and literature, but my special interests
(and research fields) are linguistics, history of religions (from the
ancient Indoeuropean to Christianity) and classical astrology. At
present my main field is Mithraism.
I can help omnibus Quiritibus in all problems concerning my fields
and NovaRoman affairs of the Hungarian part.

Thanks again!

Bene valete

M. Gryllus A. Victorinus
Legatus Pannoniae Superioris

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Welcomed!!!!
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Thu, 2 Nov 2000 10:55:59 EST

Salve,

Your messages are coming through dated in 1999. Hence they get lost at
the bottom of a folder of messages listed by date. Can you check the date
setting in your computer and correct this?

Vale,

L. Sergius Aust. Obst.

On 11/3/99 6:51 AM Morrison (morrison@--------) wrote:

>S.P.Q.R !!!!
>
>All of those interested Paulus can be contacted :
>
>Paulus Olympus Gallus
>30 Perrins Street
>Daylesford Vic
>
>Tel : 03 53 48 2965
>
>We have a few members in SA too !!!!!! Especially of the Religio interest
>all are welcome to contact us :-)
>

certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.

(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)

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Subject:	[novaroma] re: Roman Dress
From:	"G. Bagne" <gkbagne@-------->
Date:	Thu, 02 Nov 2000 17:23:45 -0000

To all from Lapella, Greetings!
The question was raised "Why did Roman dress ever change?" Remember
that 5th century climate shift that was mentioned in the list a
couple of weeks ago? That's my suspected culpret. Painting and
mosaics from that period show both men and women wearing sleeved
tunics and men (especially soldiers and farmers) wearing pants. I
find wrapping up in a wool palla and cloak warm enough, but
devilishly hard to cook in! Be Well(imperative)!

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Subject:	[novaroma] Philosophy list, to whom it may interest
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Thu, 2 Nov 2000 20:14:50 +0100

Salvete Quirites Novae Romae,

A while ago I said on the main list that I had created a list for philosophy (URL can be found at the bottom of my mail). The list is now running quite well, but I think it's yet relatively unknown to most of the NR citizenry. Everyone interested can join, no knowledge is required; only an active mind :).

Valete,
Sextus Apollonius Draco, civis Novae Romae
Wind Dragon, ICQ# 32924725
--**--
There are no bad guys. Just disturbed guys.
--**--
Novaromain? Parlez-vous fran�ais? Cliquez ici!:
http://www.egroups.com/group/NRGallia_GalliaBelgicaF
Nieuwromein? Spreekt u Nederlands? Klik hier!:
http://www.egroups.com/group/NRGallia_BelgicaBataviaD
Novaroman? Interested in philosophy? Click here!:
http://www.egroups.com/group/NR_Philosophy
--**--

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Maps of Nova Roma
From:	"Marcus Darius Ursus" <marcus_darius@-------->
Date:	Thu, 02 Nov 2000 12:22:53 MST

Salvete, Omnes

I have a couple of things to say in regards to the Maps of Nova Roma.

First:
Marcus Arminius, you have done a splendid job on the 'Hall of Maps'. You
should take pride in knowing you have done a superb job!

Second:
I am a little confused onto my wherabouts. According to Marcus Arminius's
map I am in Canada Occidentalis, yet I have always assumed I resided in
Canada Orientalis. Since I live in the Canadian Province of Alberta (look
north, second from the left). This would actually place myself and my fellow
cives from British Columbia in Canada Occidentalis, which right now is
listed as 'prov�ncias desertas'.

Could someone please clear this up for me?

Marcus Darius Ursus
Paterfamilias of Daria
--------------------------
marcus_darius@--------
Bellerophon@--------
ICQ: 83821138

"What we do in life, echoes in eternity." -Maximus, from Gladiator

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