| Subject: |
[novaroma] A fair go for all! |
| From: |
dougies@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 05 Nov 2000 00:38:01 -0000 |
|
Ave quirites et pater conscripti,
I would like to make a few statements first. The first thing is that I
like the idea of a subscription to "The Eagle" as a part of the taxes,
but I have one small problem with it: there is no-one in Australia to
distribute it.
The second thing is that I feel that it is wrong to ask people to pay
for holding a magistracy, as it would be like bribing the electorate,
and I ask you this, civies, where is the dignitas in that? I also feel
that there should be a larger tax for senators, but not as much as the
$100 US suggested earlier, as this would detract from those who
actually wish to climb the Cursus Honorum for the auctoritas and
dignitas of it, and who do so because they would like to contribute
some effort to the community. It also prevents people of lower incomes
from acheiving a seat in the most hallowed of Nova Roman republican
institutions, the senate. I beg of you, don't let the mere sight of
large $ cloud your vision as to what a true Rome, taxes or no taxes,
should be. I state this because not everyone in the western world
lives in such oppulance. One of the applicants to my clan gets no more
than about 50c - $1.00 Australian each week, as his family is
supported by the government, and they give him little of it. I
accepted him, and would still accept him into my clan, were he the
meanest groveller on the streets, as he is truly an honorable,
intelligent and friendly person.
I leave you to think this over. I hope my words sway your "commercial
anger" against those less fortunate than I or yourselves.
Valete Bene,
Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Suasio Vectigalis |
| From: |
"Pompeia Cornelia" <scriba_forum@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 04 Nov 2000 15:26:12 GMT |
|
>From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
>To: Nick Ford <gens_moravia@-------->
>CC: novaroma@--------
>Subject: Re: [novaroma] Suasio Vectigalis
>Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 08:24:05 -0600 (CST)
>
>Salve Nicolaue Moravi,
Salvete Omni:
>
> > While all nations require revenue from their citizens, no known
> > macronation levies the same tax on all its citizens regardless of
> > their wealth or ability to pay. In all cases, direct taxation is
> > proportionate to the individual's resources. Some pay more,
> > some less, some not at all.
***********Pompeia: Agreed, Vado :) ***********
>
>True. But we do not have the resources to enforce compliance, and
>many citizens would protest a requirement that we divulge our incomes.
>In this respect I think we should act more like a private organization
>than a nation, and charge a flat fee for "dues" rather than a tax
>dependent on income.
>
>However, because we are international, I suggest that we do have a
>variable rate for different nations. As was pointed out when this
>issue last arose, nearly a year ago, many nations have incomes that
>are considerably smaller than industrialized Western nations.
>
>Therefore I suggest that the yearly membership dues or "tax" for a
>citizen of Nova Roma be fixed at one one-thousandth of the average
>working adult's income in that citizens macronation. For the rich
>countries, this will probably be around $20. For undeveloped
>countries, it'll be less than one dollar - not worth the bother of
>collecting, so it could be waived.
Pompeia************Great suggestion, Marce Octavi. This was the theme of
the great debate at the beginning of the year regarding taxes.. some civites
didn't feel they could afford $20.00 or so American, due to the depressed
economies and unemployment experienced in their respective homelands. This
is much more compromising, and would lessen the numbers of people completely
unable to pay.
And, as I just posted moments ago, the century point adjustment for those
who are completely unable to pay, is a much more pallatible notion than
withwholding the vote altogether for nonpayment. ************
My concern is that the tax is financially as fair as possible
>
>This is more fair than a universal fixed amount, and does not
>violate anyone's privacy by asking for proof of income.
>
> > and concessions for those whose support is valued but who
> > would find the full membership rate too burdensome.
>
>I think we'll be able to accomodate such people under any system. I
>recall a few years back someone paid for Amethystia's subscription
>to the Eagle. Those valued contributors who have no incomes will
>generally have at least one friend who will support them.
>
>Vale, O.
>
>M. Octavius Germanicus
>Curule Aedile, Nova Roma
>Microsoft delenda est!
>http://www.graveyards.com/
>
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Latin for the current debate |
| From: |
"M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 5 Nov 2000 02:12:34 +0100 |
|
Salvete omnes!
I just wanted to offer a linguistic note for the benefit of those
wishing to discuss the creation of a Nova Roma of First Class
Citizens and Second Class Citizens. The correct Latin for these
classes is: "Classis Prima" and "Classis Secunda". "Classis" is
feminine and singular. ("Classes" is plural.)
A citizen of each class would be "civis classis primae" and "civis
classis secundae". Plural: "cives classis primae" and "cives classis
secundae".
Valete!
Marcus Apollonius Formosanus
Paterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae (http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/)
Moderator et Praeceptor Sodalitatis Latinitatis; Scriba Censorius
ICQ# 61698049 Firetalk: Apollonius 1588367
AIM: MAFormosanus MSN: Formosanus
Civis Novae Romae in Silesia, Polonia
The Gens Apollonia is open to new members.
Ave nostra Respublica Libera - Nova Roma!
________________________________________
Si vis omnia tibi subicere, te subice Rationi. (Seneca)
(Se vi deziras subigi al vi chion, subigu vin al Racio)
________________________________________
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Question About Egroups |
| From: |
"Pompeia Cornelia" <scriba_forum@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 05 Nov 2000 01:36:22 GMT |
|
Salvete Omni:
Can anyone tell me why it often takes 12-13 hours for Egroups to deliver a
post? Do they get jammed with posts at the same time, maybe? It happens to
me alot.
Great for casual conversation, but I wouldn't want to use this service to,
say: buy, sell stocks QUICK
stay an execution
Bene valete :)
Po
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Latin for the current debate |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 04 Nov 2000 17:34:39 -0800 |
|
Ave!!
Quintius Fabius Maximus is with me right now, and he just want to thank you
for the correction. He was in a hurry and did the best he could under the
time constraints.
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor
"M. Apollonius Formosanus" wrote:
> Salvete omnes!
>
> I just wanted to offer a linguistic note for the benefit of those
> wishing to discuss the creation of a Nova Roma of First Class
> Citizens and Second Class Citizens. The correct Latin for these
> classes is: "Classis Prima" and "Classis Secunda". "Classis" is
> feminine and singular. ("Classes" is plural.)
>
> A citizen of each class would be "civis classis primae" and "civis
> classis secundae". Plural: "cives classis primae" and "cives classis
> secundae".
>
> Valete!
>
> Marcus Apollonius Formosanus
> Paterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae (http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/)
> Moderator et Praeceptor Sodalitatis Latinitatis; Scriba Censorius
> ICQ# 61698049 Firetalk: Apollonius 1588367
> AIM: MAFormosanus MSN: Formosanus
> Civis Novae Romae in Silesia, Polonia
> The Gens Apollonia is open to new members.
> Ave nostra Respublica Libera - Nova Roma!
> ________________________________________
> Si vis omnia tibi subicere, te subice Rationi. (Seneca)
> (Se vi deziras subigi al vi chion, subigu vin al Racio)
> ________________________________________
>
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Raising some money |
| From: |
dougies@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 05 Nov 2000 05:12:55 -0000 |
|
Ave quirites et pater conscripti,
I have a quick suggestion. Why not create a minor class of knights,
bellow those of the Macellum merchants, and sell those positions for a
price. I'm sure you'd get some response from this. After all, the
ancient Roman censors sold positions of knights all the time.
Vale,
Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] How to never have to pay USA Taxes again... |
| From: |
SPQR_HQ@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 05 Nov 2000 05:59:26 -0000 |
|
I am allowed to vote in the upcoming USA elections, however my veteran
disability payments are 100% non-taxible. therefore paying taxes DOES
NOT have anything to do with USA franshise, and I do not feel
obligated as a Citizen of the USA to pay taxes. I think I have paid
enough.
And the idea of having a micronation is questionable. What services
does this Nova Roma overgroup give to it's citizens that they don't
already have? I get the impression that those who created this are
tired of being the ones paying for it. That makes sense. I have been
one who "paid" so others could play. I just think the idea of calling
it "TAXES" is the sticking point. Be realistic, call it Membership
dues, and have different levels of Membership. Maybe Subscribing
members can hold office, but all members can vote? Maybe after
sucessfully holding office, you can give a reward of one year's
"membership dues", to those who have served.
In all organizations like this, the more you "play" the more you pay.
If you want to do things and attend events and sponsor parties and
events, then you end up having to spend your own money. If you can
convince others to pay, great, but if you are an officer in any
organization you will spend more money.
Caius Fabius
...by the way, to keep my local group going costs me a lot more than
$1000 each year, but I think it is worth it. I am not sure that I'd
pay $1000 per year to be a senator in Nova Roma, but depending upon
the benefits, I might. Would this limit membership in the senate to
those who are either older (and have more disposable income) or those
who come from wealthy families? Yes. How Roman...
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] (Taxes) An Old Proposal, for a Newer Crowd |
| From: |
caesar@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 05 Nov 2000 07:25:20 -0000 |
|
Salvete Omnes,
<<I have a quick suggestion. Why not create a minor class of knights,
bellow those of the Macellum merchants, and sell those positions for
a
price. I'm sure you'd get some response from this. After all, the
ancient Roman censors sold positions of knights all the time.>>
Reading through the _many_ posts both for and against taxes, I came
across that which I have pasted above. It reminded me of a proposal I
had been contemplating since this time last year. Some have seen it
before, most of you have not. I had planned to bring this before the
people earlier this year, but that desire was obviously never
realized.
I still feel, very strongly, that this is an excellent idea. It will
work both as an alternative to taxes, or as a companion to them.
There will be no excluding anyone from voting, and those who are
donating the money would be given the ability to watch, and have
a "direct" say in where it was going. No harm can come from this as
law. At worst, no one will pay, and we will be no worse nor better
off than now. At best, it will jumpstart our "economy" and give the
treasury a boost it has long been in need of. The advantages are
many, the disadvantages few.
Take the proposal for what it is. It is not etched in stone, but cast
in water; entirely open to changes. Comments, questions, and concerns
are welcome, and with enough positive feed back, perhaps this can
become more than an idea.
The proposal follows below:
*******************************************
A. The Purpose of the Equestrian Order
The primary function of the Equestrian Order shall be to collect and
generate funding to meet the requirements of maintaining and
promoting the growth of Nova Roma, through buisness, commerece, and
other means, public or private, within Nova Roma or outside of it.
The Equestrian Order will secondarily act as a "financial advisory
board" which will assist in the allotment of official funds in the
manner defined below.
1.1- The members of the Equestrian Order shall provide, in concert
with one or more of the Quaestors, advice in the form of a draft
national budget, other financial documents and statements, and
reports of a quarterly or greater frequency, to the Senate, and make
available such advice to elected magistrates at the Senate's
direction.
1.2- In advance of the Kalends of Martius, the Ordo Equester will
submit to the Senate a draft national budget, and participate, at the
Senate's discretion, in debate, consultations, and hearings with
elected magistrates to finalize the National budget as a reasonable,
well-balanced, and feasible fiscal plan.
2.1- Members of the Equestrian Order who deal in "roman goods" shall
be entitled to pursue buisness interests public or private, within
Nova Roma or outside of it.
2.2- Members who promote or sell goods, products or services of a
Roman or Nova Roman nature, shall be entitled to reasonable support
and encouragement from the senate and People of Nova Roma.
2.3- Members who engague in "nonRoman" commerce, may, meeting other
conditions stated below, be accepted into the Ordo Equester. However,
they will not be entitled to support and encouragement (such as
advertising), and will be granted so only with the approval of both
Censores along with a Senatus Consultum approved by 2/3rds of the
Senate.
2.4- Members who are not engagued in any commerce but meet all other
requirements below may be enrolled on the conditions explained below.
2.5- Any commerce, trade, or type of buisness the Equestrians are
involved in must be deemed legal by local governing laws and Nova
Roman laws.
3.1- Members of the Equestrian Order shall be required to pay a set
annual membership fee in no less than quarterly installments, of (as
yet to be determined, my recommendation is $300 per year, or $25 per
month)which will, for now, provide the bulk of the official budget.
3.2- Members who engague in buisness of "Roman type" shall be
required to pay a percentage of their profits or sales to the
treasury, but are not required to meet the minimum fee. This
percentage shall be either 5% of one's profits, or 10% of one's gross
sales.
B.Membership in the Equestrian Order
1.1- Prospective members shall seek support and nomination from
existing members of the Order, who may them present them for
acceptance by the Censors.
1.2- The Censors should consider the moral and legal aspects of the
buisness a prospective member is involved in, though the main
criteria will be 1) the annual membership fee, and 2) the
participation in the financial advisory commitee.
1.3- One who is rejected shall have the right to appeal the decision
to the Comitia Populi within two market days of notification of
rejection.
2.1- Members are required to meet the financial obligations of
membership, and must do so in a consistent and timely manner.
2.2- Accepted members will be required to swear a legally and morally
binding oath.
2.3- Accepted members will be required to put extra time, as well as
money, into Nova Roma. This includes, but is not limited to: the
strategic and accurate planning of a yearly budget, long term
financial planning and goals for Nova Roma, the active pursuit of
pertinant (read Rome related) merchants to advertise on the Nova Roma
site at a small charge, creating and improving old and new sources of
income.
3.1- The annual "review of the Knights" will be held on ________(slap
me, but I can't recall the date).
3.2- In this the Senate and magistrates will asses the productiveness
of each member of the Ordo over the past year, and may call members
of the Ordo for review by the Censors.
3.3- The Censors shall then examine the Equestrian's "record" over
the past year, and determine whether or not he may continue to be
enrolled in the Ordo Equestor.
3.4- Subtractions from the ranks of the Equestrians must be made upon
this date.
3.5- An expelled member may appeal his expulsion to the comitia
populi within two market days of notification of expulsion.
************************************************
If you are enthusiastic about the proposal (either for or against),
please Email me.
Gratias.
Valete, Quirites.
Gn. Tarquinius Caesar
Tribunis Plebis
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Tax Commentary |
| From: |
"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 5 Nov 2000 09:45:49 -0500 |
|
Salve,
I have been watching the discussion on taxation with great interest. I must
confess that I am against the imposition of taxation as a general rule,
however my commentary today has less to do with my personal standpoint and
more to do with what I deem a critical necessity if taxation is ever to come
to be.
Accountability. *Legal* accountability for handling monies. Please note,
that by "legal" I mean according to the laws of the macronation (i.e.: USA),
not laws within Nova Roma. I am a member of another organization that was
very nearly destroyed by the embezzlement of club funds. The perpetrator
was duly elected to handle the money, yet he is currently serving 7-15. The
monies have never been recovered. And yes, we all said "oh that will never
happen here" as well. We trusted this person to be honest. How wrong we
were. He never gave any appearance of impropriety or any cause for
suspicion until it was way too late.
If Nova Roma is going to institute taxation, or any form of official money
collection, it is crucial that ALL persons charged with such duty be legally
bonded. I realize the myriad of complications that notion opens, but I
truly believe it is essential. To rely simply on the good faith of those
collecting money is an example of gross naiveté. Note, I am *not* seeking
to insult anyone here, simply point out that, when it comes to money, one
can NEVER be too careful.
I have seen much discussion of who and how, but no discussion on the legal
accountability. Requiring that all tax collectors be bonded, and thus
legally accountable for the cash, may well mean that some persons cannot
participate as collectors. Truthfully, if a person cannot satisfy the legal
requirements of bonding I am grateful they will not have the opportunity to
handle our money.
Simply put, as we discuss the taxation issue, one very important part is
LEGAL accountability. Without it, we are leaving ourselves wide open for
disaster and will have no one to blame but ourselves when it happens. Call
me cynical, but my faith in human nature declines in direct proportion to
the amount of money one is entrusted to handle without supervision.
Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] The Tax compromise |
| From: |
sfp55@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 5 Nov 2000 05:11:17 EST |
|
Well, Citizens of Nova Roma, I'm speechless. Which happens very rarely.
But you have rendered me in that state.
<Deep Breathe>
I had no idea that your vote was so important to you. Based on our last
election turnout I thought that over half of you didn't care to vote and
quarter of you were too young to do so.
I am pleasantly surprised. I am very pleased that voting in Rome means this
much to you. Such passion only means a deeper commitment to Rome.
Therefore the people have spoken, and we the consuls, their elected
instrument, must listen.
Thus the ban against voting unless taxes are paid is stricken from the
proposal.
The Bi Classis system is likewise stricken.
Unoffically, all you Provincial Praetors listen. You are to start surveying
your province and begin to get a fair idea of what your citizens can pay
Rome. You are all going to have to pay something, you are to make sure that
it is not too much and most important, not to little. This information will
be collected and presented to the Senate. They will use this info to set
your tax, dues, memberships, whatever.
Citizens that are not in an established province will be contacted by a
Quaestor, and questioned. California and Britannia, if they still wish so,
will be the pilot program.
As for the Eagle, I am working on an other idea, which is not completed yet.
More on this anon.
Now citizens, how are we going to insure compliance? There is a consensus
that
people standing for offices should have a tax status of "good standing." I
agree. But how else? You all are very clever bunch of individuals, I will
wait and see what you come up with.
Valete
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Apologies to Pompeia Cornelia Strabo |
| From: |
<gmvick32@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 05 Nov 2000 08:24:24 -0700 |
|
Salvete Quirites:
I publicly submit my apologies to Pompeia for apparently
forwarding a response to an email on to the list that she
intended to be a private exchange yesterday. Given our
current group settings, I have trained myself to hit reply,
and then fill in the group email address. So I didn't
realize until it was pointed out later than she was taking
the discussion private.
That said, I must say it confuses me why that particular
comment was meant to be taken privately. I was trying to
address, publicly, the issue of taxation. I have no need to
have my public comments treated gently, in fact, I welcome a
little shaking up in a public forum. I have very durable
sensitivities over my public ideas.
Livia Cornelia Aurelia
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Taxes |
| From: |
Christer Edling <tjalens.h@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 5 Nov 2000 15:22:03 +0100 |
|
Salve Quirites!
I have been away for a few days and when I started reading NR e-mails I
found this debate about taxes. After a 12 weeks period of overloaded work I
want to to be active in this debate, but I think that my arguments will not
be very well worded because I am terriblly tired, I hope I am excused? I
think it is very important that we do things the "old" way, so I will ask
some questions about the old Republic. Here are some questions and my views
(some based on some earlier statements):
1. "Placing all non-paying citizens in the four urban tribes and the
22 centuries of the fifth class is a reasonable compromise - and
is more in keeping with Roman tradition than withholding the vote
alltogether."
"I certainly like this better than withholding voting privileges
altogether" This seems very reasonable. Otherwise I think the growth of NR
will be slowed down and some old citizens would leave, very few would like
to be members of an organization were the didn't have the right to vote.
Those who were called "proletarii" were they really paying taxes in Roma
Antiqua?
2. I could accept to "Retain the tie between levy-paying and ability to
run for office." But what was the way of the old Republic?
3. Otherwise I am all for the lex!
4. I think that no taxes should be based om gens because the extention of
of some gens and the complication of different currencies!
5. I also want to have a public account of the planed use of the taxes and
of the actual use of taxes in the future!
6. But because of the importance of the lex, I think it should be put to
the People in the correct comitia!
Ave et salve
Christer Edling
alias
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
SHAMALI SALUKIS
************************************************
CAMELOT ROLEPLAYING WORKSHOP
Robert Andersson & Christer Edling
************************************************
IF GAMES - If reality was different!
Markus Sundbom & Christer Edling
************************************************
MAIN E-MAIL ADDRESS: tjalens.h@--------
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Let us do it the ROMAN WAY |
| From: |
"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 5 Nov 2000 10:43:52 +0100 |
|
Sextus Apollonius Draco Liviae Corneliae Aureliae SPD,
Just a quick comment:
> 1. For cives not able to run for office, I still think (and others have
pointed
> out), that they should not be subject to the same rules as everybody else.
So
> I'd say, either have a VERY low amount, or no amount, for anybody under 21
> (until such time as those under 21 could stand in an election).
But, me, being a civis under 21, why *should* I pay tax/fee if I can't run
for office anyway?
> 3. Finally, we are talking about such a small sum of money in any case
for the
> fully developed countries...to the tune of $20 - $25... that for the
majority of
> our populace, in the US, Canada, and western Europe, to be unable to
afford $25
> just doesn't accord with me. And, btw, I'd propose to our European and
> Canadians....to stick it to them, and make it be 25 units of your own
currency.
> And remember, part of the original proposal accounted for deducting the
cost of
> exchanging currency and forwarding the payment from the total due.
I would think it is a very good idea to make the fee 20 untis of my own
currency, given the fact that 20 Belgian Francs are worth about half a
dollar, hehe.
Anyway,
Vale bene,
Sextus Apollonius Draco, civis Novae Romae
Wind Dragon, ICQ# 32924725
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] The Tax compromise |
| From: |
<gmvick32@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 05 Nov 2000 08:38:01 -0700 |
|
Let me be the first to thank the consul for bringing this to the table.
A warning Quirities, this has the potential to seem just as unjust a solution to
many of you as anything we've seen to date, especially down the road when the
big provinces start resenting the little provinces for wanting equal voice for
unequal remuneration. Setting a head tax will seem a much more equitable
solution in the long run than provinces setting individual amounts. Another
difficulty to prepare for is how to adjust the tax rate each year as province
sizes change. That means you won't know from year to year what to expect. But,
the consul has given this opportunity to us, lets make the most of it and let's
remember when we encounter speed bumps that we got the system we asked for.
That said, I'd like the consul to address one of the most important questions
that keeps surfacing, only to get drowned in the hue and cry. I've got my own
ideas about this, and I don't mean it at all antagonistically...BUT....where is
the definitive plan for how this money will be used??? Let's focus on that a
little bit.
Livia Cornelia Aurelia
sfp55@-------- wrote:
> Well, Citizens of Nova Roma, I'm speechless. Which happens very rarely.
> But you have rendered me in that state.
> <Deep Breathe>
> I had no idea that your vote was so important to you. Based on our last
> election turnout I thought that over half of you didn't care to vote and
> quarter of you were too young to do so.
> I am pleasantly surprised. I am very pleased that voting in Rome means this
> much to you. Such passion only means a deeper commitment to Rome.
> Therefore the people have spoken, and we the consuls, their elected
> instrument, must listen.
>
> Thus the ban against voting unless taxes are paid is stricken from the
> proposal.
> The Bi Classis system is likewise stricken.
> Unoffically, all you Provincial Praetors listen. You are to start surveying
> your province and begin to get a fair idea of what your citizens can pay
> Rome. You are all going to have to pay something, you are to make sure that
> it is not too much and most important, not to little. This information will
> be collected and presented to the Senate. They will use this info to set
> your tax, dues, memberships, whatever.
> Citizens that are not in an established province will be contacted by a
> Quaestor, and questioned. California and Britannia, if they still wish so,
> will be the pilot program.
> As for the Eagle, I am working on an other idea, which is not completed yet.
> More on this anon.
> Now citizens, how are we going to insure compliance? There is a consensus
> that
> people standing for offices should have a tax status of "good standing." I
> agree. But how else? You all are very clever bunch of individuals, I will
> wait and see what you come up with.
> Valete
>
>
>
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Let us do it the ROMAN WAY |
| From: |
<gmvick32@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 05 Nov 2000 08:47:32 -0700 |
|
Salve Draco:
Well, you still want to be able to vote from age 18 to 21, don't you?? And
you're still using "public resources". That should have some measure of tax
associated with it.
As for the money. Some civies would luck out, others would pay more. Give me a
really good suggestion how to make it fair to members of the EU, Eastern Europe,
Japan, Australia, Canadia, and the Latin Americas. Maybe it's going back to
saying it's $XX USD, deduct the exchange transaction fees and cost of couriering
the money. MAYBE it's setting up the ability to process credit cards, requiring
payment by credit card to get the best exchange rate at the moment, (which would
penalize those unable to obtain credit cards), and raise your fee to make you
eat the cost to Nova Roma of processing credit card payments. Hmm....what's good
for you, Draco?
Livia Cornelia Aurelia
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Tax Commentary |
| From: |
<gmvick32@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 05 Nov 2000 08:52:31 -0700 |
|
Salve, Priscilla:
You raise excellent points, especially about bonding and legal accountability.
I think we need to have a firm idea for who will be handling the money, how they
will uniformly account for the money (both inside and outside the Treasury),
and, as you say, they should be bonded.
I think we can't make this up as we go. We need the plan before the tax is
agreed to.
Livia Cornelia Aurelia
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Let us do it the ROMAN WAY |
| From: |
"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 5 Nov 2000 17:33:44 +0100 |
|
Salve Livia,
> As for the money. Some civies would luck out, others would pay more.
Give me a
> really good suggestion how to make it fair to members of the EU, Eastern
Europe,
> Japan, Australia, Canadia, and the Latin Americas. Maybe it's going back
to
> saying it's $XX USD, deduct the exchange transaction fees and cost of
couriering
> the money. MAYBE it's setting up the ability to process credit cards,
requiring
> payment by credit card to get the best exchange rate at the moment, (which
would
> penalize those unable to obtain credit cards), and raise your fee to make
you
> eat the cost to Nova Roma of processing credit card payments.
Hmm....what's good
> for you, Draco?
The problem lies in the conversion of the money. Right now, for example, 1
USD is worth 40 BF. But if I annually pay 800BF, which would make up the
20$, normally, I would appear not to have enough, because the change of
money also costs me a bit, let alone the fluctuations between several
currencies. This will be especially a problem in multi-macronational
provinces such as Germania, Thule or future Gallia. Of course countries of
the EU could use the euro, so there would be only one currency transition
made, but there would be still a problem with some other provinciae I
suppose. Though I also see that there aren't much better alternatives, as
you so sarcastically put it. So, I honestly don't know what would be a
better alternative.
Vale,
Sextus Apollonius Draco, civis Novae Romae
Wind Dragon, ICQ# 32924725
--**--
There are no bad guys. Just disturbed guys.
--**--
Novaromain? Parlez-vous français? Cliquez ici!:
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Nieuwromein? Spreekt u Nederlands? Klik hier!:
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Let us do it the ROMAN WAY |
| From: |
<gmvick32@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 05 Nov 2000 10:06:19 -0700 |
|
I'm sensitive to the funds transfer fee. That's why the provision was made in
the original proposal to pool all the funds for a given province into a single
pool, make the transfer once, and pay the exchange only once. Correct me if I'm
wrong, but the transfer fee is a set amount, and not variable to the amount
exchanged, correct??
All sarcasm aside, I'm not the expert on international monies issues and could
use suggestions from those who would have to do it on how it's equitable.
And the other issue is, I know what $20 USD means to me, and to me $20 USD is
the cost of a typical book, or a dinner for one at a better restaurant/a dinner
for two at a middle-of-the-road restaurant, or the cost of taking myself to a
middle-of-the-road dinner, a movie, and buying a soda there. Those are
equivalent uses for LIVIA's money that Nova Roma is asking for as my tax.
OK, so $20 USD is equivalent to roughly 800 BF to you....but what does 800 BF
mean to you?? As Formosanus pointed out, in Poland $20 or $25 USD equivalent is
exceedingly dear to him. As Surra pointed out, in Australia there's at least
one cive who counts his weekly available cash as a few Australian dollars.....to
me $20 USD is pocket change (not to say it is to every US citizen. but I'd
reckon it is for the majority of us), but what is it to you, Draco?? What could
you buy for $20, or what would be an equivalent to my "pocket change"?? I'm
asking respectfully, I do need that input.
Livia
"S. Apollonius Draco" wrote:
> Salve Livia,
>
> > As for the money. Some civies would luck out, others would pay more.
> Give me a
> > really good suggestion how to make it fair to members of the EU, Eastern
> Europe,
> > Japan, Australia, Canadia, and the Latin Americas. Maybe it's going back
> to
> > saying it's $XX USD, deduct the exchange transaction fees and cost of
> couriering
> > the money. MAYBE it's setting up the ability to process credit cards,
> requiring
> > payment by credit card to get the best exchange rate at the moment, (which
> would
> > penalize those unable to obtain credit cards), and raise your fee to make
> you
> > eat the cost to Nova Roma of processing credit card payments.
> Hmm....what's good
> > for you, Draco?
>
> The problem lies in the conversion of the money. Right now, for example, 1
> USD is worth 40 BF. But if I annually pay 800BF, which would make up the
> 20$, normally, I would appear not to have enough, because the change of
> money also costs me a bit, let alone the fluctuations between several
> currencies. This will be especially a problem in multi-macronational
> provinces such as Germania, Thule or future Gallia. Of course countries of
> the EU could use the euro, so there would be only one currency transition
> made, but there would be still a problem with some other provinciae I
> suppose. Though I also see that there aren't much better alternatives, as
> you so sarcastically put it. So, I honestly don't know what would be a
> better alternative.
>
> Vale,
> Sextus Apollonius Draco, civis Novae Romae
> Wind Dragon, ICQ# 32924725
> --**--
> There are no bad guys. Just disturbed guys.
> --**--
> Novaromain? Parlez-vous français? Cliquez ici!:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/NRGallia_GalliaBelgicaF
> Nieuwromein? Spreekt u Nederlands? Klik hier!:
> http://www.egroups.com/group/NRGallia_BelgicaBataviaD
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> --**--
>
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] NovaRoma Chat |
| From: |
"c.p." <c_pontius@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 5 Nov 2000 15:32:29 -0800 |
|
Hey.. i opened a NovaRoma chat room on dalnet IRC.. just come on in to
#NovaRoma
for those of you who dont know what IRC is, goto www.mirc.com
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