Subject:	[novaroma] The Three-Child Privilege
From:	"Nick Ford" <gens_moravia@-------->
Date:	Thu, 16 Nov 2000 00:53:00 -0000

Popularibus Salutem

We are extremely pleased to announce that Cn. Moravius Piscinus now has a brother,
Cornelius Moravius Laurentibus, and a sister, Natalia Moravia. The adoption of each was, in accordance with Moravian family custom, by unanimous consent. As with Piscinus, they could have decided to bring their talents, their comitas, humanitas and pietas to any gens, or to have set up on their own, but they chose us instead, which is pleasantly surprising. We're proud to have them. They are, all three, a coveted "Three-Child Privilege" in this New Rome of ours.

Floreat Moravia vivatque Nova Roma!

Vado & Aletheia.






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Subject:	[novaroma] Seneca and an astonishing phrase.
From:	"Lucius Pompeius Octavianus" <octavianuslucius@-------->
Date:	Thu, 16 Nov 2000 02:39:18 -0000

Salvete Quirites novoromani.
I just read the following phrase from Seneca : " Centuries will come
in which the ocean will break its chains... and will discover a hugh
land! A new world!". Incredible, isn´t it ?.
I read it in spanish, and did the translation.
In spanish it is :" Siglos vendrán en que el océano romperá
sus
cadenas... y descubrirá una inmensa tierra! Un nuevo mundo!
If someone speaks both english and spanish and find a mistake in my
translation, please let me know. Thank you.

Lucius Pompeius Octavianus


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Subject:	[novaroma] Roman matron's clothing (let's try that again)
From:	"pjane@-------- " <pjane@-------->
Date:	Thu, 16 Nov 2000 03:12:43 -0000

The picture of me, looking cold, tired and disgusted, but wearing
something reasonably approximating the garb of a Roman matron, is not
at the URL I mentioned, but at this one:

http://www.egroups.com/files/novaroma/Graphics/patricia.jpg

My apologies for the error.

The acorn-shaped item tied to the cord around my waist is not Roman,
but was a token indicating I'd paid for dinner at this event.

Patricia Cassia



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Subject:	[novaroma] New Gentes Members
From:	"Pompeia Cornelia" <scriba_forum@-------->
Date:	Thu, 16 Nov 2000 01:38:09 GMT

Salvete Omnibus:

Welcome and warm wishes to the newest members of the Gentes Sentia and
Moravia!!! :)

Pompeia Cornelia Strabo
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Subject:	[novaroma] Poll on the emperors
From:	dougies@--------
Date:	Thu, 16 Nov 2000 11:44:10 -0000

Ave quirites et pater conscripti,

I would like for you to fill out this poll, and give your opinion on
who the greatest emperor of Rome was. Fill it out in the order of
preference of whom you think was greatest (include some of your own,
if you wish):

The Emperors are -
1 - Augustus
2 - Hadrian
3 - Antoninus Pius
4 - Marcus Aurelius
5 - Vespasian
6 - Claudius
7 - Trajanus
8 - Diocletian
9 - Constantine the Great
10 - Theodosius the Great
11 - Julian the Apostate
12 - Septimus Severus
13 - Justinian
14 - Titus
15 - Other

Thankyou for your time and effort. They are much appreciated.

Valete Bene,

Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura

"I can take on any task, large or small, just ask is all" - Gaius
Marius.



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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Poll on the Emperors
From:	"Michael" <maf@-------->
Date:	Thu, 16 Nov 2000 22:44:52 +1000

Ave,

Hmm! Tough call. Depends how you define greatness. If you think in terms of the one with the most long-term influence, definitely Constantine. On the other hand if you think in terms of greatness as being possession of some indefinable personal quality that lifts one above the ranks, then it would probably be a toss-up between Augustus and Marcus Aurelius. Vespasian resurrected the Empire from the excesses of the Julio-Claudians, under Hadrian the Empire reached its greatest extent, Diocletian ensured its survival for another 150 years or so, and so on.

My ranking of the top five

1. Constantine

2. Augustus

3. Marcus Aurelius

4. Diocletian

5. Vespasian

Vale

Marcus Afranius Regulus




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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Poll on the emperors
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <amg@-------->
Date:	Thu, 16 Nov 2000 12:27:59 -0800

Salve Gai Senti Brutti Sura

Here follows my list in decreasing order of greatness:

1- Marcus Aurelius
This is for his human qualities, as a philosopher who was able to accept and
comply with the fate decreed by the Gods of being Emperor of Rome, and more
so in such a troubled time. Unfortunately he was not able to educate his son
Commodus according to his human principles.

2- Julian the Apostate
I prefer to call him Iulian the Blessed, as "Apostate" is a Nazarene
epithet. Iulian was also a philosopher and during his reign was able to keep
the balance between the Christian and the traditional religious movements.
This he did with great impartiality and sense of humanity.

3- Augustus
This man I choose to put in this place, not so much for his sense of
humanity or philosophy but because he was a very intelligent and competent
man and one who was able to manage his carreer very well. He was able to
restore many traditions of the Religio Romana, lost during the difficult
period of the late Republic. He was also able to find the only solution - in
my view - possible to unify so many provinces in a single ideal of a state:
the Imperial cult and the cult of goddess Roma.

4- Hadrian
I here return to the Antonines, my preferred lineage of Emperors. Hadrian
was a very intelligent and cult Emperor.

5- Trajanus
Great Emperor, a man of vision and comptetent soldier. I only lament the
fate he gave to the Dacian capital...

6- Antoninus Pius
He was a good Emperor and deserved his hire and adopted son: Marcus
Aurelius.

7- Vespasian
He was lucky and commanded many legions... He knew how to exploit his
opportunity of becoming Emperor during the civil war of 68-69 AD.
Nevertheless I think he was a competent Emperor.

8- Titus
Much like his father Vespasian. In both I lament the way the "Jewish
problem" was solved.

9- Diocletian
Diocletian was an intelligent man. He was raised Emperor during a troubled
and corrupt time that already forecasted the decadence. His centralization
of power was surely a temporary solution to many administrative problems.
Nevertheless, he is an example of autocracy and continued the living-emperor
worship started by Aurelianus. We can consider that the Principate ends with
Diocletian. With minor exceptions, the decrease of the power of the people
and the Senate would be followed by Christian Emperors and Kings with a few
exceptions until the French Revolution of 1789 AD.


10- Septimus Severus
When he became Emperor, he was much needed. He was a competent soldier.
Nevertheless, with each civil war, the people and the Senate lost a fraction
of power. His followers would bring another period of instability and lead
to the military anarchy of the IIIrd century AD.

11- Constantine the Great
Little is known about him. This man believed that Christ and Sol Invictus
were one and the same God. He very much wanted to mae peace between the two
parties: Christian and Pagan. The date of his treason (conversion to the
Christian faith) is uncertain. While some pagans are known to have converted
during his life (which would be evidence for the conversion of the Emperor
himself), others say that it was only during agony that the Christians
managed to convert him exploiting his weakness. The rite of inauguration of
Constantinople was pagan according to the chronicles, which still increases
even more our doubts.
Anyway, despite his treason, his example of religious moderation and
competence as a soldier make me put him before others.

12- Theodosius the Great and Justinian
These are fanatic Christians, pursuers of other religious cults, autocratic
men with no intelligence. I won't say more...

Vale
Antonius Gryllus Graecus


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Subject:	[novaroma] What the Well Dressed Magistrate is Wearing
From:	"Nicolaus Moravius" <n_moravius@-------->
Date:	Thu, 16 Nov 2000 18:14:06 GMT

Salve, mi Marce Armini et alteribus salutem

Scripsisti:

>Some time ago, i was trying to explain to other brazilian cives how the
>novaroman magistrates are elected, their responsabilities, powers, duties
>etc.
>
>To do so, i created a page with short explanations (in portuguese, only),
>an at the end, a diagram depicting the magistrates and the comitias, and
>the relations between they.

Respondeo: I've just seen it. Very impressive, and bags of detail.

>Those figures were extracted from a old book, and i wonder if they are
>historically correct, or if the different magistrates under the republic
>have different togas, distinct between they in some way.

Respondeo: Since you ask, amice, and since no-one better-qualified that I
has responded, I would guess from the quantity of folds and wrappings that
your togati are from the Imperial period, by which time the almost
hemispherical toga of the early Republic, twice as long as its widest
(middle) point, had gradually stretched to three or four times longer than
its width.

>The only thing i know, is the Senatores (that arent in that diagram) have
>purple stripes in their togas.

Respondeo: Without references in front of me, I seem to remember that all
magistrates wore the toga praetexta, that is, a toga with a purple stripe
woven into the long (selvedge) side, close to, but not actually oalong, the
edge. Augures wore a toga with a parallel red stripe as well (I forget the
name for it). I believe the width of stripe (clavus) was actually a uniform
width on the toga praetexta, irrespective of whether the magistrate was
plebeian, equestrian, or patrician, but that it was the purple stripes on
the tunica underneath (running down from each shoulder, back and front)which
denoted rank by their width (until the end of the second century CE, by
which time just about everybody was wearing tunica stripes, and avoiding the
toga if they could possibly help it). Senators, I believe, were denoted by
the red boots they were entitled to wear.

It'll be a while before I can get to the library and check this out - can
anyone else help?

Bene valete,

Vado.

P.S. Thanks for the good wishes. Please give all my best to the Arminii.
>
>
>I forgot a small thing:
>
>The URL of the diagram is in the bottom of:
>http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/nrbras/nr1.htm
>
>Marcus Arminius Maior

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Subject:	[novaroma] What the Well Dressed Magistrate is Wearing
From:	"Lucius Equitius" <vze23hw7@-------->
Date:	Thu, 16 Nov 2000 14:53:50 -0500

Salvete, Omnes

Vado inquit:
>It'll be a while before I can get to the library and check this out - can
>anyone else help?
>
>Bene valete,
>Vado.
>
>P.S. Thanks for the good wishes. Please give all my best to the Arminii.

These are a few webpages that should answer some of the questions.

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/civcloth.html

http://www.novaroma.org/via_romana/reenactments/toga.html

http://www.novaroma.org/via_romana/reenactments/civilian_clothing_m.html

http://www.novaroma.org/via_romana/reenactments/tunics.html

Valete, Lucius Equitius


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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Poll on the emperors
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Thu, 16 Nov 2000 21:30:43 +0100

Salve Gai Senti,

An interesting question! Allow me to give you my top 5.

1. Hadrianus
2. Augustus
3. Marcus Aurelius
4. Claudius
5. Traianus

Vale bene,
Sextus Apollonius Draco, civis Novae Romae
Legatus Galliae Borealis,
Procurator Galliae,
Wind Dragon, ICQ# 32924725
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Poll on the emperors
From:	"J. T. Sibley" <jrsibley@-------->
Date:	Thu, 16 Nov 2000 16:27:53 -0500

dougies@-------- wrote:

> Ave quirites et pater conscripti,

Ave!

> I would like for you to fill out this poll,

> The Emperors are -
> 1 - Augustus - not bad, didn't live long enough, though. Bad omens agin'
> him.
> 2 - Hadrian - Now we Romano-Brits know this dude. Introduced some
> interesting things. Also hired a lot of Brits in the wall-building trade;
> that sure enhanced the local economy. But it was Julius who brought the
> pussycat to Britain.
> 3 - Antoninus Pius - not one of my faves. But interesting, religion-wise.
>
> 4 - Marcus Aurelius - OK
> 5 - Vespasian - Good man; best of the Flavians.
> 6 - Claudius - can take a long run off a short dock...
> 7 - Trajanus - Best thing for him was his column...
> 8 - Diocletian - Coulda done better here and there.
> 9 - Constantine the Great - sold out the Old Religion, but at least Rome
> was forgetting about Britain at this time
> 10 - Theodosius the Great - Never knew much about him
> 11 - Julian the Apostate - Brief but glorious return to the old days,
> religion-wise.
> 12 - Septimus Severus - nice coinage; don't know much else about him.
> 13 - Justinian - OK, especially since he was *far* from Britain....
> 14 - Titus - shoulda faced the lions. Woulda given them food poisonong,
> though. Meow.
> 15 - Other ---hey, how about Julius? He was the one who really kicked
> things off empire-wise. Wrote some interesting books, too.
>
> Thankyou for your time and effort. They are much appreciated.

Vale,
S. Ambrosia Fulvia
whose idea of a Really Good emperor is one who stays in Rome and merely
ships us lots of lovely money.


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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Poll on the emperors
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla <alexious@-------->
Date:	Thu, 16 Nov 2000 13:18:58 -0800

Antonio Grilo wrote:

> Salve Gai Senti Brutti Sura
>
> Here follows my list in decreasing order of greatness:
>
> 1- Marcus Aurelius
> This is for his human qualities, as a philosopher who was able to accept and
> comply with the fate decreed by the Gods of being Emperor of Rome, and more
> so in such a troubled time. Unfortunately he was not able to educate his son
> Commodus according to his human principles.
>
> 2- Julian the Apostate
> I prefer to call him Iulian the Blessed, as "Apostate" is a Nazarene
> epithet. Iulian was also a philosopher and during his reign was able to keep
> the balance between the Christian and the traditional religious movements.
> This he did with great impartiality and sense of humanity.
>
> 3- Augustus
> This man I choose to put in this place, not so much for his sense of
> humanity or philosophy but because he was a very intelligent and competent
> man and one who was able to manage his carreer very well. He was able to
> restore many traditions of the Religio Romana, lost during the difficult
> period of the late Republic. He was also able to find the only solution - in
> my view - possible to unify so many provinces in a single ideal of a state:
> the Imperial cult and the cult of goddess Roma.
>
> 4- Hadrian
> I here return to the Antonines, my preferred lineage of Emperors. Hadrian
> was a very intelligent and cult Emperor.
>
> 5- Trajanus
> Great Emperor, a man of vision and comptetent soldier. I only lament the
> fate he gave to the Dacian capital...
>
> 6- Antoninus Pius
> He was a good Emperor and deserved his hire and adopted son: Marcus
> Aurelius.
>
> 7- Vespasian
> He was lucky and commanded many legions... He knew how to exploit his
> opportunity of becoming Emperor during the civil war of 68-69 AD.
> Nevertheless I think he was a competent Emperor.
>
> 8- Titus
> Much like his father Vespasian. In both I lament the way the "Jewish
> problem" was solved.
>
> 9- Diocletian
> Diocletian was an intelligent man. He was raised Emperor during a troubled
> and corrupt time that already forecasted the decadence. His centralization
> of power was surely a temporary solution to many administrative problems.
> Nevertheless, he is an example of autocracy and continued the living-emperor
> worship started by Aurelianus. We can consider that the Principate ends with
> Diocletian. With minor exceptions, the decrease of the power of the people
> and the Senate would be followed by Christian Emperors and Kings with a few
> exceptions until the French Revolution of 1789 AD.
>
> 10- Septimus Severus
> When he became Emperor, he was much needed. He was a competent soldier.
> Nevertheless, with each civil war, the people and the Senate lost a fraction
> of power. His followers would bring another period of instability and lead
> to the military anarchy of the IIIrd century AD.
>
> 11- Constantine the Great
> Little is known about him. This man believed that Christ and Sol Invictus
> were one and the same God. He very much wanted to mae peace between the two
> parties: Christian and Pagan. The date of his treason (conversion to the
> Christian faith) is uncertain. While some pagans are known to have converted
> during his life (which would be evidence for the conversion of the Emperor
> himself), others say that it was only during agony that the Christians
> managed to convert him exploiting his weakness. The rite of inauguration of
> Constantinople was pagan according to the chronicles, which still increases
> even more our doubts.
> Anyway, despite his treason, his example of religious moderation and
> competence as a soldier make me put him before others.
>
> 12- Theodosius the Great and Justinian
> These are fanatic Christians, pursuers of other religious cults, autocratic
> men with no intelligence. I won't say more...

Ave!!

I think you are a bit harsh on Justinian. All of your previous comments
basically referred that essentailly the Emperors were a product of their times.
That seemed the general theme to me. (Espeically Diocletian). So, was
Justinian...but I call Justinian great because of the architectural achievements
and the codification of Roman Law. That alone.....warrents his greatness, let
alone for the fact that he held power through very rough times.....(Nika Revolt,
Plague) and almost succeded in restoring the Roman Empire at the same time!

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix



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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Poll on the emperors
From:	"Lucius Pompeius Octavianus" <octavianuslucius@-------->
Date:	Thu, 16 Nov 2000 21:52:20 -0000

Lucius Pompeius Octavianus Gaio Sentio Bruttio Suræ S.P.D.

In my humble opinion and within my ignorance, I think the greatest
emperor was Augustus, since he inaugurated a new era, and he
represented a point of inflexion in roman history. He put an end to
civil wars.
I find difficult to determine my order of preference because I know
too little, anyway here it is :
I)Augustus
II)Julian the Apostate
III)Antoninus Pius
IV)Marcus Aurelius
V)Hadrian
VI)Claudius
VII)Vespasian
VIII)Trajanus
IX)Titus
X)Diocletian
XI)Septimius Severus


In relation with Constantine the Great and Theodosius the great, from
my subjective point of view I do not like them at all, because I
consider that they played a very important role in puting an end to
paganism. And I know that Constantine was really a killer, a vulgar
man and extremely ambitious.

In the case of emperor Justinian, unfortunately I do not know
absolutely anything, except that he was bizantine emperor and married
a former prostitute.

So this is my humble attempt to give an opinion within the
limitations of my knowledge.

Vale bene et habe fortunam bonam.

--- In novaroma@--------, dougies@i... wrote:
> Ave quirites et pater conscripti,
>
> I would like for you to fill out this poll, and give your opinion
on
> who the greatest emperor of Rome was. Fill it out in the order of
> preference of whom you think was greatest (include some of your
own,
> if you wish):
>
> The Emperors are -
> 1 - Augustus
> 2 - Hadrian
> 3 - Antoninus Pius
> 4 - Marcus Aurelius
> 5 - Vespasian
> 6 - Claudius
> 7 - Trajanus
> 8 - Diocletian
> 9 - Constantine the Great
> 10 - Theodosius the Great
> 11 - Julian the Apostate
> 12 - Septimus Severus
> 13 - Justinian
> 14 - Titus
> 15 - Other
>
> Thankyou for your time and effort. They are much appreciated.
>
> Valete Bene,
>
> Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura
>
> "I can take on any task, large or small, just ask is all" - Gaius
> Marius.


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Subject:	Fw: [novaroma] Re: Poll on the emperors
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Thu, 16 Nov 2000 15:38:18 -0800

Should have been on the main list. :)

SF
----- Original Message -----
From: "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@-------->
To: "Lucius Pompeius Octavianus" <octavianuslucius@-------->
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2000 3:37 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Re: Poll on the emperors


> > In relation with Constantine the Great and Theodosius the great, from
> > my subjective point of view I do not like them at all, because I
> > consider that they played a very important role in puting an end to
> > paganism. And I know that Constantine was really a killer, a vulgar
> > man and extremely ambitious.
>
> Let me ask you, what emperor was NOT a killer?
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>
>


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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Roman matron's clothing (let's try that again)
From:	"Teleri ferch Nyfain" <rckovak@-------->
Date:	Thu, 16 Nov 2000 18:55:44 -0500

Nice garb! I like the color of the stola. Are the brass (?) fasteners the
kind with the attached tongue? I used to have a set of six fibula (the
little safety -pin like things which archeologists have found by the
handfuls in Roman ruins) about an inch long. They got stolen, & I would
love to get some more - they work great with all sorts of costumes
(including belly dance which I do) because they act like safety pins but
look a LOT better.
I also bought a 'reproduction' dress/chemise/whatever from a shop in London
that claimed to be based on a Roman undertunic - the sleeves look buttoned
together but really aren't & there is cloth attached under the two sides. I
wonder if possibly the attached piece of cloth might actually be period, for
cold climates. Any info would be helpful.

Helena Galeria Aureliana


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