| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Advice to Tom News About Books |
| From: |
"Pompeia Cornelia" <scriba_forum@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 23 Nov 2000 00:42:46 -0000 |
|
>Tom News Wrote:
>Nick,
> Thanks for the advice. The Colleen McCullough books are giberish, aren't
>they.
Pompeia******I cannot agree with the above statement, sorry. In order to
appreciate Colleen McCullough, one has to realize that the purpose of her
writing books is not to provide rote historical information. It is to
write fiction based on history, that is history with her perceptions of the
characters and how events went down in detail. Every novelist
sensationalizes and biases to some extent. But she is not writing a history
essay; nor does she profess to such; she's writing "a story"..."historical
fiction".
I will say, though, that with major events and characters, her names, dates,
places, from what I've seen, are usually "right on the money". Two
exeptions I've picked up; Caesar's first wife, McCullough called "Cinilla",
where her name was Cornelia, daughter of Cornelius Cinna. I believe she did
this purposely to prevent confusion of her with Cornelia, daughter of Sulla.
Also, Pompeia Rufia, second wife of Caesar, McCullough called "Pompeia
Sulla", to prevent confusion with Pompeia, sister of Pompeius Magnus, and/or
daughter of Magnus. There are likely others.
Speaking as one who has had an afinity for Rome and its history since I was
a kid (ages ago!!) plus one who's read several McCullough books, including
her nonRoman works, I find her an author whose stories dance off the page of
a book into life...you are there, a part of the scenero. I can't put her
down. She can write about anything; I will in all likelihood read it and
enjoy it.
She's a literary genius, in my opinion.
Valete!
Pompeia Cornelia Strabo
> Tom
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Nick Ford
> To: novaroma@--------
> Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 3:08 PM
> Subject: [novaroma] Advice to Tom News About Books
>
>
> Salve Tomase Quiritibusque salutem
>
> > My name is Tom and I'm new to the study of Roman History. I was
> wondering if any >of you could recommend a good one- or multi-volume
>history
> of Rome. The History >Book Club has lots of offerings, but nothing which
> serves as an overview. I've read >enough history to know that is the way
>to
> get started. Any help would be greatly >appreciated. Many thanks in
>advance.
>
> Be welcome, Tom. For me there is no substitute for primary sources.
>Looking
> at them, you can make up your own mind about the way things were,
>without
> some subsequent writer (ancient or modern, pursuing his own private
>agenda)
> telling you what to think. By all means read commentators, but examine
>the
> evidence for yourself first. To begin with this, I recommend:
>
> LEWIS, N., and REINHOLD, M.(Editors): 'Roman Civilization: A Sourcebook'
> Volume I (The Republic and the Augustan Age), Volume II (The Empire)
> (Columbia University Press, New York, 1990)(Paperback). Borrow copies
>from a
> library first and see what you think (that's just my frugalitas
>talking).
>
> This compendium of original material, on everything from letters and
> gravestone inscriptions to astrology and the price of wine, will also
>point
> you in the direction of ancient historians (also quoted in exerpts) whom
>you
> may wish to read in more depth. Nearly all are available in English
> translations, too.
>
> After that, my advice is to read modern historians last of all. As for
> modern fiction, avoid it completely (except as entertainment). Cursed be
>he
> whose Romanitas is derived from the works of Colleen McCullough! ):-(
>
> Alteris verbis, avoid in your mental nourishment, wherever possible,
>food
> which has been pre-digested for you by somebody else, except for
>fertilizing
> your own produce.:-)
>
> Bene lege et disce,
>
> Vado.
>
>
> eGroups Sponsor
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Advice to Tom News About Books |
| From: |
"Tom News" <tnews4@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 22 Nov 2000 23:02:11 -0500 |
|
Pompeia, et al,
Sorry. I guess I should have clarified what I meant. I felt reading these books that she assumed a GREAT deal of knowledge of Rome on the part of the reader. It just destroys the flow of a novel to keep flipping to the glossary to find what the latest esoteric term was that I just tripped over while reading. Novels are meant to flow from start to finish, very much unlike non-fiction, which I find very easy to put down and come back to at a later time. Has anyone out there ever read the " Dune " books by Frank Herbert? Then you'll know what I mean.
Mrs. McCullough is a fine writer, and when the story is really going, very enjoyable and un-putdownable. But the constant flaunting of her knowledge of Rome by using terms with no explanations I find maddening. If I want that, I'll read the book that comes with my 1040 form! ;-) There's a woman writer by the name of Sharon Kay Penman who writes about Dark to Middle Ages England. I never once felt like I was being talked down to while reading her books. What's Mrs. McCullough trying to prove?
Sorry if this strayed a bit off topic.
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: Pompeia Cornelia
To: tnews4@-------- ; gens_moravia@domicilium.freeserve.co.uk ; novaroma@egroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Advice to Tom News About Books
>Tom News Wrote:
>Nick,
> Thanks for the advice. The Colleen McCullough books are giberish, aren't
>they.
Pompeia******I cannot agree with the above statement, sorry. In order to
appreciate Colleen McCullough, one has to realize that the purpose of her
writing books is not to provide rote historical information. It is to
write fiction based on history, that is history with her perceptions of the
characters and how events went down in detail. Every novelist
sensationalizes and biases to some extent. But she is not writing a history
essay; nor does she profess to such; she's writing "a story"..."historical
fiction".
I will say, though, that with major events and characters, her names, dates,
places, from what I've seen, are usually "right on the money". Two
exeptions I've picked up; Caesar's first wife, McCullough called "Cinilla",
where her name was Cornelia, daughter of Cornelius Cinna. I believe she did
this purposely to prevent confusion of her with Cornelia, daughter of Sulla.
Also, Pompeia Rufia, second wife of Caesar, McCullough called "Pompeia
Sulla", to prevent confusion with Pompeia, sister of Pompeius Magnus, and/or
daughter of Magnus. There are likely others.
Speaking as one who has had an afinity for Rome and its history since I was
a kid (ages ago!!) plus one who's read several McCullough books, including
her nonRoman works, I find her an author whose stories dance off the page of
a book into life...you are there, a part of the scenero. I can't put her
down. She can write about anything; I will in all likelihood read it and
enjoy it.
She's a literary genius, in my opinion.
Valete!
Pompeia Cornelia Strabo
> Tom
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Nick Ford
> To: novaroma@--------
> Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 3:08 PM
> Subject: [novaroma] Advice to Tom News About Books
>
>
> Salve Tomase Quiritibusque salutem
>
> > My name is Tom and I'm new to the study of Roman History. I was
> wondering if any >of you could recommend a good one- or multi-volume
>history
> of Rome. The History >Book Club has lots of offerings, but nothing which
> serves as an overview. I've read >enough history to know that is the way
>to
> get started. Any help would be greatly >appreciated. Many thanks in
>advance.
>
> Be welcome, Tom. For me there is no substitute for primary sources.
>Looking
> at them, you can make up your own mind about the way things were,
>without
> some subsequent writer (ancient or modern, pursuing his own private
>agenda)
> telling you what to think. By all means read commentators, but examine
>the
> evidence for yourself first. To begin with this, I recommend:
>
> LEWIS, N., and REINHOLD, M.(Editors): 'Roman Civilization: A Sourcebook'
> Volume I (The Republic and the Augustan Age), Volume II (The Empire)
> (Columbia University Press, New York, 1990)(Paperback). Borrow copies
>from a
> library first and see what you think (that's just my frugalitas
>talking).
>
> This compendium of original material, on everything from letters and
> gravestone inscriptions to astrology and the price of wine, will also
>point
> you in the direction of ancient historians (also quoted in exerpts) whom
>you
> may wish to read in more depth. Nearly all are available in English
> translations, too.
>
> After that, my advice is to read modern historians last of all. As for
> modern fiction, avoid it completely (except as entertainment). Cursed be
>he
> whose Romanitas is derived from the works of Colleen McCullough! ):-(
>
> Alteris verbis, avoid in your mental nourishment, wherever possible,
>food
> which has been pre-digested for you by somebody else, except for
>fertilizing
> your own produce.:-)
>
> Bene lege et disce,
>
> Vado.
>
>
> eGroups Sponsor
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] From the Senor Consul |
| From: |
sfp55@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 23 Nov 2000 02:06:41 EST |
|
Salvete,
I'll be in San Diego for the holiday, returning Sunday. If they are any
citizens in San Diego that would wish to talk to me, during this period,
e-mail me direct at sfp55@-------- and leave me someway to contact you.
Tomorrow is an American day of thanks. I would like to thank my good fortune
in being involved in Nova Roma, at the almost beginning, privileged to watch
our res publica grow, take our first tottering steps towards a reality that
is less virtual and more solid. When we are completely formed, you can say,
"we were there. Our struggles made this happen." I can think of no better
thing to accomplish in our modern civilization. The restoration of our
original mother, Rome.
I thank Fortuna for allowing us to come this far, and I thank Vesta, though
un honored, has still not yet turned her back on us. The omens continue to
remain favorable.
Valete!
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| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] The Statement of the Amici Dignitatis |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" <amg@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 23 Nov 2000 10:11:55 -0800 |
|
Salve Livia Cornelia Aurelia
>I had to stop and pause here. We have secret Sodales?? What of somebody
sitting out there with a burning desire to explore the cult >of Mithras, but
who didn't catch the eye of the Sodalitas Cultorum Mithrae?? Too bad for
them, eh?
>I can accept that the Sodalitas would be "for members only", the policy of
being completely secret seems rather counterproductive to what >we're trying
to accomplish.
Firstly, you have nothing to say about the Sodalitas Cultorum Mithrae or any
other Sodalitas that PRIVATE CITIZENS wish to form within Nova Roma. Any
group of citizens can meet and form a Sodalitas.
A totally different thing is the OFFICIAL RECOGNITION of the Sodalitas. The
Sodalitas Cultorum Mithrae is still forming and defining its statute and it
counts with a limited number of highly interested members. Once the
principles of the Sodalitas are established, the Sodalitas will strive for
official recognition, and then the SENIOR MEMBERS will establish WHO CAN OR
CANNOT enter the Sodalitas.
So, I bag you to stay quiet before gathering all info needed to pronounce
any statement of the sort you did pronounce.
Vale
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
-----Original Message-----
From: gmvick32@-------- [mailto:gmvick32@--------]
Sent: quarta-feira, 22 de Novembro de 2000 19:38
To: Antonio Grilo
Subject: Re: [novaroma] The Statement of the Amici Dignitatis
Salve:
I had to stop and pause here. We have secret Sodales?? What of somebody
sitting out there with a burning desire to explore the cult of Mithras, but
who didn't catch the eye of the Sodalitas Cultorum Mithrae?? Too bad for
them, eh?
I can accept that the Sodalitas would be "for members only", the policy of
being completely secret seems rather counterproductive to what we're trying
to accomplish.
Vale,
Livia Cornelia Aurelia
Antonio Grilo wrote:
Salvete omnes
> 2) that the government of Nova Roma and all of its associated
>sodalitates, lists, and fora are to be free and open to all citizens;
I protest against this item if it includes the Senate, Religious
Collegia
and Sodalitates. For example, I'm a member of the Sodalitas Cultorum
Mithrae, which is a secret society as appropriate to the Mysteries of
Mithras. I'm sure that other similar organisations have the same
feeling.
Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex, Senator, Magisratus, cultor Mithrae, Civis Romanus
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] [Fwd: Latin question] |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 23 Nov 2000 01:50:38 -0800 |
|
Phillip Ringwood wrote:
> Sir -
>
> After travelling your site "nova roma" I am at a loss I hope you can help
> me with. I am attempting to perform the Roman style solstice or "saturnelia"
> (forgive the spelling), for my final project of Latin class. Do you have a
> Latin/English somewhere on the site or otherwise that you could direct me
> to? Thanks for your time.
>
> Rissa
>
> Phil
> http://www.protoelf.com/elf/index.htm
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| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] The Statement of the Amici Dignitatis + participation of the Quirites |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" <amg@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 23 Nov 2000 10:41:25 -0800 |
|
Salvete iterum S Apolloni et al
>This is something different, yes. I think what's meant is the common
>sodalitates, the common lists and the common fora, not the special
religious
>groups such as the Mithraic Mysteries.
Then, I bag the Amici Dignitatis to rewrite their noble manifest in order to
clarify these important points that can lead to unnecessary confusion,
debate and conflict in the future.
I'd like also to say that for a matter of tradition, I think that Nova Roma
should keep the political system of our Republican forefathers. I still
think that this system is democratic enough if the Senate and Magistracies
are able to allow an higher degree of participation of the people by calling
the Comitia more often and by informing the people (duty of the Tribuni
Plebis) about the discussions within the Senate. Note that I say "if ... are
able" and not "if ... want". This is because I'm sure that the Senate and
Magitrates WANT the people to participate. Nevertheless, we should remember
that the Magistrates and Senators are not NR professionals. They have their
job in the outside world and they must work to survive. To organise a
Comitium is very demanding in terms of time, and this is the reason - in my
opinion - why the Comitia are not assembled more often.
The appropriate balance should be found.
Dii vos ament
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex, Senator, Magistratus, Cives
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| Subject: |
RE:[novaroma]The Statement of the Amici Dignitatis |
| From: |
<gmvick32@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 23 Nov 2000 08:21:47 -0700 |
|
Salve, Gryllus:
I had to stop and pause again here. I've been rightly
criticized for not being sensitive enough to the feelings of
others in my posts, and I'm trying to change my ways. I'm
usually pretty impervious to feeling hurt too. But this
made me feel hurt. I wasn't saying anything about private
citizens shouldn't be forming Sodales on any topic. If
you're still forming, that's great, and if sometime in the
future, you're planning to seek official recognition, that's
great. But the way it was posited was as a "secret" sodales
and not a "forming" sodales. I am capable of understanding
the distinctions.
I'm a private citizen too. I'm trying to participate in
Nova Roma too, and I'm not finding acceptance or avenues to
participate in anything tangible within Nova Roma to be
easy. I'm a little hurt by the people who tell me that my
input is unwarranted and to just keep my mouth shut while
citizens of senior standing figure things out.
Livia Cornelia Aurelia
Antonio Grilo wrote:
> Salve Livia Cornelia Aurelia
>
> >I had to stop and pause here. We have secret Sodales??
> What of somebody
> sitting out there with a burning desire to explore the
> cult >of Mithras, but
> who didn't catch the eye of the Sodalitas Cultorum
> Mithrae?? Too bad for
> them, eh?
>
> >I can accept that the Sodalitas would be "for members
> only", the policy of
> being completely secret seems rather counterproductive to
> what >we're trying
> to accomplish.
>
> Firstly, you have nothing to say about the Sodalitas
> Cultorum Mithrae or any
> other Sodalitas that PRIVATE CITIZENS wish to form within
> Nova Roma. Any
> group of citizens can meet and form a Sodalitas.
> A totally different thing is the OFFICIAL RECOGNITION of
> the Sodalitas. The
> Sodalitas Cultorum Mithrae is still forming and defining
> its statute and it
> counts with a limited number of highly interested members.
> Once the
> principles of the Sodalitas are established, the Sodalitas
> will strive for
> official recognition, and then the SENIOR MEMBERS will
> establish WHO CAN OR
> CANNOT enter the Sodalitas.
>
> So, I bag you to stay quiet before gathering all info
> needed to pronounce
> any statement of the sort you did pronounce.
>
> Vale
>
> Antonius Gryllus Graecus
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmvick32@-------- [mailto:gmvick32@--------]
> Sent: quarta-feira, 22 de Novembro de 2000 19:38
> To: Antonio Grilo
> Subject: Re: [novaroma] The Statement of the Amici
> Dignitatis
>
>
> Salve:
> I had to stop and pause here. We have secret Sodales??
> What of somebody
> sitting out there with a burning desire to explore the
> cult of Mithras, but
> who didn't catch the eye of the Sodalitas Cultorum
> Mithrae?? Too bad for
> them, eh?
>
> I can accept that the Sodalitas would be "for members
> only", the policy of
> being completely secret seems rather counterproductive to
> what we're trying
> to accomplish.
>
> Vale,
> Livia Cornelia Aurelia
>
>
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] The Statement of the Amici Dignitatis + participation of the Quirites |
| From: |
<gmvick32@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 23 Nov 2000 08:36:21 -0700 |
|
Antonio Grilo wrote:
> Salvete iterum S Apolloni et al
>
> >This is something different, yes. I think what's meant is
> the common
> >sodalitates, the common lists and the common fora, not
> the special
> religious
> >groups such as the Mithraic Mysteries.
> Then, I bag the Amici Dignitatis to rewrite their noble
> manifest in order to
> clarify these important points that can lead to
> unnecessary confusion,
> debate and conflict in the future.
>
> I'd like also to say that for a matter of tradition, I
> think that Nova Roma
> should keep the political system of our Republican
> forefathers. I still
> think that this system is democratic enough if the Senate
> and Magistracies
> are able to allow an higher degree of participation of the
> people by calling
> the Comitia more often and by informing the people (duty
> of the Tribuni
> Plebis) about the discussions within the Senate.
I have to say: as a cive of Nova Roma, I'm 100% not
interested in having my participation in Nova Roma be to
wait around with my mouth shut and no opportunity to
participate in meaningful discussions of civic affairs until
such time as the Senate and Magistrates are able, as they
alone see fit and proper, to consult with the Comitia. I
didn't join Nova Roma to sit idle while a small handful has
cloistered itself away and keeps the process of
participation in Nova Roma close to themselves until such
time as they will "allow" others to participate.
If that's to be the purpose of Nova Roma, we should close
our doors to membership and leave the Senate and Magistrates
to be a self-contained body with no external stressors
(i.e., simple cives) to distract them.
> Note that I say "if ... are
> able" and not "if ... want". This is because I'm sure that
> the Senate and
> Magitrates WANT the people to participate. Nevertheless,
> we should remember
> that the Magistrates and Senators are not NR
> professionals. They have their
> job in the outside world and they must work to survive. To
> organise a
> Comitium is very demanding in terms of time, and this is
> the reason - in my
> opinion - why the Comitia are not assembled more often.
Is it really that time- and labor-intensive to call a
Comitia? We must all work to survive. And point in fact,
the Magistrates are, in fact, "NR professionals". They just
chose to take on a second, part-time, non-paying job in
addition to their real-world work.
Nope, haven't shut up yet.
Livia Cornelia Aurelia
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| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma]The Statement of the Amici Dignitatis |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" <amg@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 23 Nov 2000 17:39:11 -0800 |
|
Salve Livia Cornelia Aurelia
>I had to stop and pause again here. I've been rightly
>criticized for not being sensitive enough to the feelings of
>others in my posts, and I'm trying to change my ways. I'm
>usually pretty impervious to feeling hurt too. But this
>made me feel hurt. I wasn't saying anything about private
>citizens shouldn't be forming Sodales on any topic. If
>you're still forming, that's great, and if sometime in the
>future, you're planning to seek official recognition, that's
>great. But the way it was posited was as a "secret" sodales
>and not a "forming" sodales. I am capable of understanding
>the distinctions.
The word "secret" was employed because just like any other Mystery cult, the
Mithraic Mysteries have their secrets.
On the other hand, citizens have all the right to form NOT-OFFICIAL secret
Sodalitates. Just call it "group of friends with similar interests" or
anything you think is appropriate.
>I'm a private citizen too. I'm trying to participate in
>Nova Roma too, and I'm not finding acceptance or avenues to
>participate in anything tangible within Nova Roma to be
>easy. I'm a little hurt by the people who tell me that my
>input is unwarranted and to just keep my mouth shut while
>citizens of senior standing figure things out.
How have you tried to participate? To lauch unfair inflamating suspicion on
the mainlist about what others are doing is not a good way of participating.
Do something useful. Instead, write a good essay, write new material for the
Web site.
>I have to say: as a cive of Nova Roma, I'm 100% not interested in having
my participation in Nova Roma be >to wait around with my mouth shut and no
opportunity to participate in meaningful discussions of civic
>affairs until such time as the Senate and Magistrates are able, as they
alone see fit and proper, to
>consult with the Comitia. I didn't join Nova Roma to sit idle while a
small handful has cloistered itself >away and keeps the process of
participation in Nova Roma close to themselves until such time as they will
>"allow" others to participate.
>If that's to be the purpose of Nova Roma, we should close our doors to
membership and leave the Senate and >Magistrates to be a self-contained body
with no external stressors (i.e., simple cives) to distract them.
Again, you have misinterpreted my words, maybe on purpose. What I tried to
say is that the Senate and Magistrates have no desire of establishing a
dictatorship as some are unjustly thinking and saying publicly. The Senators
and Magitrates are normal people with their lifes and responsibilities in
the outside and as such we all must understand their limitations.
Nevertheless they have so far accomplished many things. I specially praise
both Consuls, both Censores and Curulis Aedilis Marcus Octavius Germanicus
for their efforts.
>Is it really that time- and labor-intensive to call a Comitia? We must all
work to survive. And point in >fact, the Magistrates are, in fact, "NR
professionals". They just chose to take on a second, part-time,
>non-paying job in addition to their real-world work.
Fine! Please candidate yourself in the next elections and perform better
next year.
Vale
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
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| Subject: |
Re: Re: [novaroma] The Statement of the Amici Dignitatis + participation of the Qu |
| From: |
Iulia66198@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 23 Nov 2000 13:17:37 EST |
|
Livia Cornelia wrote:
<<I have to say: as a cive of Nova Roma, I'm 100% not
interested in having my participation in Nova Roma be to
wait around with my mouth shut and no opportunity to
participate in meaningful discussions of civic affairs until
such time as the Senate and Magistrates are able, as they
alone see fit and proper, to consult with the Comitia.>>
As far as I can tell, quite a *lot* of meaningful discussions of all types
take place in NR, and on this list, too. Perhaps I'm being too naive, but
I'd like to believe that there are actually people in positions of authority
here who are doing their best to work for the good of all. This includes
taking into account what citizens on this list have to say. I'd like to
encourage everyone to give them the benefit of the doubt, rather than being
in a constant state of suspicion as to their motives.
<<And point in fact, the Magistrates are, in fact, "NR professionals". They
just chose to take on a second, part-time, non-paying job in addition to
their real-world work.>>
And I'm glad they did, too. There are many of us who, for one reason or
another, are constrained from participating as fully as they do.
Just my humble 2 sestercii,
Iulia Cassia
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: [Poll on the emperors |
| From: |
"Teleri ferch Nyfain" <rckovak@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 23 Nov 2000 13:26:28 -0500 |
|
Vespasian
Marcus Aurelius
Julian the Apostate
Claudius
Septimus Severus
I have to add that I'm no fan of the Empire - I prefer the Republic.
Helena Galeria
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma]The Statement of the Amici Dignitatis |
| From: |
"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 23 Nov 2000 19:20:42 +0100 |
|
Salvete Praetor Graece et Livia Cornelia,
LIVIA: I had to stop and pause again here. I've been rightly criticized for
not being sensitive enough to the feelings of others in my posts, and I'm
trying to change my ways. I'm usually pretty impervious to feeling hurt
too. But this made me feel hurt. I wasn't saying anything about private
citizens shouldn't be forming Sodales on any topic. If you're still
forming, that's great, and if sometime in the future, you're planning to
seek official recognition, that's great. But the way it was posited was as
a "secret" sodales and not a "forming" sodales. I am capable of
understanding the distinctions.
GRAECUS: The word "secret" was employed because just like any other Mystery
cult, the Mithraic Mysteries have their secrets. On the other hand, citizens
have all the right to form NOT-OFFICIAL secret Sodalitates. Just call it
"group of friends with similar interests" or anything you think is
appropriate.
DRACO: But then it wouldn't be a Sodalitas in the way it is perceived in NR,
would it? Although a religious Mystery cult isn't a Mystery cult for
nothing, of course, I don't think it should be secret.
******
LIVIA: I'm a private citizen too. I'm trying to participate in Nova Roma
too, and I'm not finding acceptance or avenues to participate in anything
tangible within Nova Roma to be easy. I'm a little hurt by the people who
tell me that my input is unwarranted and to just keep my mouth shut while
citizens of senior standing figure things out.
GRAECUS: How have you tried to participate? To lauch unfair inflamating
suspicion on the mainlist about what others are doing is not a good way of
participating. Do something useful. Instead, write a good essay, write new
material for the Web site.
DRACO: I would urge everyone to stay civilised, please. Anyway, it's not
always easy to participate in "the right way" (or whatever that may mean). I
recently wrote both Censores regarding an idea that had been floating around
here a while ago, and even though I know that these men are both often busy,
I never received a reply, and sometimes things don't work fast enough here,
in my humble opinion. I think that even by engaging into a political
discussion here in Nova Roma you are participating. Of course the tone
should remain constructive.
******
LIVIA: I have to say: as a civis of Nova Roma, I'm 100% not interested in
having my participation in Nova Roma be to wait around with my mouth shut
and no opportunity to participate in meaningful discussions of civic affairs
until such time as the Senate and Magistrates are able, as they alone see
fit and proper, to consult with the Comitia. I didn't join Nova Roma to sit
idle while a small handful has cloistered itself away and keeps the process
of participation in Nova Roma close to themselves until such time as they
will "allow" others to participate. If that's to be the purpose of Nova
Roma, we should close our doors to membership and leave the Senate and
>Magistrates to be a self-contained body with no external stressors (i.e.,
simple cives) to distract them.
GRAECUS: Again, you have misinterpreted my words, maybe on purpose....
DRACO: Although I may not be in 100% agreement with everything Livia says, I
think that making allusions like this one can be hardly constructive.
GRAECUS: ...What I tried to say is that the Senate and Magistrates have no
desire of establishing a dictatorship as some are unjustly thinking and
saying publicly. The Senators and Magitrates are normal people with their
lifes and responsibilities in the outside and as such we all must understand
their limitations. Nevertheless they have so far accomplished many things. I
specially praise both Consuls, both Censores and Curulis Aedilis Marcus
Octavius Germanicus for their efforts.
DRACO: True enough, a lot has been done, and NR is not a steady-state
business. But as much as I hate to say it, running a state is a job that is
never finished. As people live, the state continues to live, too, and it
should be kept healthy and efficient. A lot of great work has been done by
great men and women, but even more work may be done just as well then.
******
LIVIA: Is it really that time- and labor-intensive to call a Comitia? We
must all work to survive. And point in fact, the Magistrates are, in fact,
"NR professionals". They just chose to take on a second, part-time,
non-paying job in addition to their real-world work.
GRAECUS: Fine! Please candidate yourself in the next elections and perform
better next year.
DRACO: Is there really some insinuation in Livia's words that the current
Magistrates are performing badly? I can't see it.
Valete et habete diem iucundum,
Sextus Apollonius Draco, civis Novae Romae
Legatus Galliae Borealis,
Procurator Galliae,
Wind Dragon, ICQ# 32924725
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|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma]The Statement of the Amici Dignitatis |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" <amg@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 23 Nov 2000 18:55:55 -0800 |
|
Salve Apolloni
GRAECUS: The word "secret" was employed because just like any other Mystery
cult, the Mithraic Mysteries have their secrets. On the other hand, citizens
have all the right to form NOT-OFFICIAL secret Sodalitates. Just call it
"group of friends with similar interests" or anything you think is
appropriate.
DRACO: But then it wouldn't be a Sodalitas in the way it is perceived in NR,
would it? Although a religious Mystery cult isn't a Mystery cult for
nothing, of course, I don't think it should be secret.
GRAECUS:
Of course! But the Sodalitas Cultorum Mithrae falls precisely on the
category of "private fellowship" at the moment, for it is not yet recognised
officially by the Collegium Pontificum.
LIVIA: Is it really that time- and labor-intensive to call a Comitia? We
must all work to survive. And point in fact, the Magistrates are, in fact,
"NR professionals". They just chose to take on a second, part-time,
non-paying job in addition to their real-world work.
GRAECUS: Fine! Please candidate yourself in the next elections and perform
better next year.
DRACO: Is there really some insinuation in Livia's words that the current
Magistrates are performing badly? I can't see it.
GRAECUS:
There was. Livia was amazed at the frequency of Comitia.
I also add that many issues do not deserve the Comitia to be called. While
calling the Comitia is a good thing, it must be done with moderation. If one
calls the Comitia systematically to vote on not-important-enough matters,
the result will be that participation on the Comitia will decrease. I remind
you that the Magistrates have already many administrative things to manage.
The Senate has been permanently discussing matters which, while not
appropriate for voting in Comitia due to their nature, are nevertheless
necessary for the proper working of Nova Roma.
Vale
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] First Things First (was Back to Basics) |
| From: |
"Ianus Querius Armoricus Lutecio" <yquere@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 23 Nov 2000 21:04:43 +0100 |
|
Ianus Querius Armoricus LutecioQuiritibus SPD
I would like to react to this message which causes me a few problems, as
Propraetor Galliae, obliged to conform to specific French reglementation (I
don't even think about Belgium or Netherlands, for European taxation system
and banking system is not yet harmonized within the European Union) :
- The opening of a specific bank account must be made after the official
registration of a non-lucrative organisation "Nova Roma - Provincia
Gallia"vfor instance among the files of the French administration.
This is a first step which requires specific formalism towards what we call
"prefectures".
My problem is that this organisation being a micro-nation, I fear that
following the french actuallity and new legislation about tax evasion,
financial cloaking and non-official organisations linked to religion and so
on, the registration should raise problems.
- Requiring 2 signatories on the bank account (which is, according to me,
the minimal security), also requires to have two magistrates residing in the
same city, which is not the case for my province for the moment, for
practical convinience matters.
For these reasons, I think Provincia Gallia will not be able to fullfill the
requirements proposed by N. Moravius Vado for the moment, which make me most
sad. I am still continuing looking for a solution...
For information, the new Provincia Gallia begins its organisation by the
creation of a Gallia Taverna (live discussion forum), which prooved very
useful tonight by many exchanges between the Legati and the Propraetor.
Valete Bene
I.Querius Armoricus Lutecio
Propraetor Galliae
----- Original Message -----
From: Nick Ford <gens_moravia@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 11:35 PM
Subject: [novaroma] First Things First (was Back to Basics)
> Quiritibus salutem
>
> I am attempting to follow the example of Consul Q. Fabius Maximus and
Quaestor Patricia Cassia in addressing this to the people rather than to the
Senate (who are also currently discussing fiscal procedures), as it relates
closely to the issue of taxation. I hope the Conscript Fathers won't be
offended with me for so doing.
>
> You know, friends and fellow-Romans, it worries me when Censor Sulla and I
agree on something, and still more when my son Piscinus agrees with him too.
Thus most of my days pass untrammelled by anxiety. :-)
>
> But seriously...
>
> Agreed, money is required for our Respublica. To date, money has been
found, but in the unstructured and haphazard way that speaks well of the
dedication and generosity of many of our citizens - magistrates and
senators, mostly, take note - but which also puts our organisational
professionalism (or lack of it) in an unflattering light. Money freely given
in good faith must be looked after wisely, or the good faith of our public
benefactors (who in this respect resemble the leading citizens of ancient
Rome) will evaporate, and when that good will disappears, so does the money.
>
> Patricia Cassia has my personal gratitude, and should have the gratitude
of you all, for everything she has done thus far as Quaestor, but she really
does need more backup, both in terms of manpower and sound legislation
ensuring good practice.
>
> If you think this is a boring issue, citizens, I promise you you won't
when you find we can't meet our operating costs. You already know what I
think about taxation: that everyone should be asked - asked, mind - to pay a
fair share towards a budgeted sum instead, and that the Provinciae should
keep at least half (otherwise, what's the incentive for making NR more of a
reality at local level for everyone?). Besides, the machinery of taxation is
in itself expensive.
>
> But Sulla is absolutely right (Gods, I nearly choked on that) when he says
you can't reasonably expect people to invest in an organisation when the
capital expenditure isn't forecast and justified, and the normal probity and
accountability safeguards you would expect aren't already all in place.
Before we raise money (or even spend the money we've got - but there Sulla
and I part company) you need something like this:
>
> 1. (January): the Consuls and Quaestors prepare an annual budget for
approval by the Senate.
> This will be based on individual budgets submitted by ALL magistrates,
itemising their projected expenditure and income (if applicable) to the
Senate from October to December of the previous year. Nil returns are also
required. The completion of such a budgetary return shall be an integral
part of a magistrate's duties. Each magistrate shall be responsible for
compiling similar information from all those whom (s)he has appointed to
office, and such information shall form part of that magistrate's budgetary
return.
>
> 2. (February): if this budget requires extra revenue, not only must the
citizens be consulted on how it is to be raised, they should vote in comitia
tributa if any taxation proposals are involved.
>
> 3. (March): The provincial governors are asked to collect that revenue
from the provinciae, and Quastors from the Macellum. Governors should be
bonded for the estimated provincial quota, and be required to send
documentary proof of this to the Quaestors, who should similarly be bonded
for the total revenue expected. Personal bank accounts shall NOT be used by
any public official for the handling of public monies. All public bank
accounts, whether central or provincial, shall have at least 2 signatories,
one of whom in the case of provincial bank accounts, shall be the governor.
>
> 4. (April): The provincial governors send the agreed proportion of revenue
as a single credit transfer to a specially designated central NR account,
managed by both Quaestors (we can't rely on just one to stay alive, well and
functioning). Both Quaestors must be approved signatories to that account.
>
> 5. (April): One designated Quaestor receives the monies and deposits them
in the account. A statement of account is maintained, updated regularly, on
the Aerarium Saturnii page of the NR website, for all citizens to examine.
Provincial statements of account shall be similarly displayed in the
Aerarium Saturnii.
>
> 6. (May): A Senate committee (of 3 senators, say) are selected by lot,
with power to inspect the accounts and other financial records at any time,
without prior warning. They report to the Consuls.
>
> 7. Throughout the year, all payments to, and claims from, provincial and
central accounts, shall be documented by transmitted faxed or scanned copies
of relevant receipts, cheques, invoices, money orders and credit and debit
statements.
>
> 8. (March): at the end of the financial year, the old and new Quaestors
shall submit a full statement of account to a certified accountant, who is
NOT a citizen of NR, for independent audit. The completed audit report
shall be submitted directly to the Senate for ratification, and afterwards
placed in the Aerarium Saturnii for public inspection.
>
> I hope this very rough draft goes some way towards satisfying the basic
requirements for ensuring fiscal integrity, and that these ideas stimulate
enough constructive discussion to enable a second set of proposals to be
constructed for a Senatus Consultum and Consular lex.
>
> To my mind, the last thing we want is demands for money when we don't know
what it's for and have no surety it will be used as we would wish. Nor do we
want the office of a magistrate to become bankrupt for lack of proper
procedures you would expect in a small club, never mind a fledgeling nation.
>
> Your thoughts, please. citizens?
>
> N. Moravius Vado
> Propraetor and Senator.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma]The Statement of the Amici Dignitatis |
| From: |
"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 23 Nov 2000 21:05:50 +0100 |
|
Salve, Praetor Graece,
> DRACO: Is there really some insinuation in Livia's words that the current
> Magistrates are performing badly? I can't see it.
> GRAECUS:
> There was. Livia was amazed at the frequency of Comitia.
> I also add that many issues do not deserve the Comitia to be called. While
> calling the Comitia is a good thing, it must be done with moderation. If
one
> calls the Comitia systematically to vote on not-important-enough matters,
> the result will be that participation on the Comitia will decrease. I
remind
> you that the Magistrates have already many administrative things to
manage.
> The Senate has been permanently discussing matters which, while not
> appropriate for voting in Comitia due to their nature, are nevertheless
> necessary for the proper working of Nova Roma.
I agree that there should be a balance, but the problem is, I think, that
it's hard to define the word "important" sometimes. Who defines it for who?
I think that many cives (as I have expressed before) aren't very well
informed on how the politics of NR work. Perhaps this ought to be explained
better on the website, or through some sort of welcoming e-mail, I don't
know. But right now I seriously doubt that the majority of the citizenry
knows what the Comitia really *do*. Perhaps that's because they haven't had
enough *practice* yet in getting together? It has to be said, though, that
Sura is doing some really good efforts.
Vale bene,
Sextus Apollonius Draco, civis Novae Romae
Legatus Galliae Borealis,
Procurator Galliae,
Wind Dragon, ICQ# 32924725
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma]The Statement of the Amici Dignitatis |
| From: |
marcusaemiliusscaurus@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 23 Nov 2000 21:07:10 -0000 |
|
> >I'm a private citizen too. I'm trying to participate in
> >Nova Roma too, and I'm not finding acceptance or avenues to
> >participate in anything tangible within Nova Roma to be
> >easy. I'm a little hurt by the people who tell me that my
> >input is unwarranted and to just keep my mouth shut while
> >citizens of senior standing figure things out.
Amen! My thoughts exactly.
> How have you tried to participate? To lauch unfair inflamating
suspicion on
> the mainlist about what others are doing is not a good way of
participating.
> Do something useful. Instead, write a good essay, write new
material for the
> Web site.
For many of us, we are stopped by some law or regulation. I am too
young, as are other civesI know, to run for office. Otherwise, as
the Senate is well aware, I would have leapt into twice as many
elections as needed!
> Again, you have misinterpreted my words, maybe on purpose. What I
tried to
> say is that the Senate and Magistrates have no desire of
establishing a
> dictatorship as some are unjustly thinking and saying publicly. The
Senators
> and Magitrates are normal people with their lifes and
responsibilities in
> the outside and as such we all must understand their limitations.
> Nevertheless they have so far accomplished many things. I specially
praise
> both Consuls, both Censores and Curulis Aedilis Marcus Octavius
Germanicus
> for their efforts.
Agreed. Surely someone else can have a try at the tiller now?
> >Is it really that time- and labor-intensive to call a Comitia? We
must all
> work to survive. And point in >fact, the Magistrates are, in
fact, "NR
> professionals". They just chose to take on a second, part-time,
> >non-paying job in addition to their real-world work.
> Fine! Please candidate yourself in the next elections and perform
better
> next year.
I would have if not for the Lex Iunia de M.A.
Valete,
Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus.
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Advice to Tom News About Books |
| From: |
"Nick Ford" <gens_moravia@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 23 Nov 2000 19:47:15 -0000 |
|
Salutem
My malediction:
>>Cursed be he whose Romanitas is derived from the works of Colleen
McCullough! ):-(
was intended, not for those who enjoy reading Roman modern historical
fiction (or watching movies like 'Gladiator'), for entertainment, but for
those who regard these inventions as valid sources of factual information.
Like the countless lost souls in the Pagan Federation who look upon the
works of Marion Zimmer Bradley as a good historical basis for pre-Roman
religious practice in Britain.
What I'm saying is, we should honour our Roman cultural ancestors by
allowing them to speak directly to us, through their original records.
Myself, I'm a Lindsey Davis fan, she writes a rattling good yarn which is
good fun, pleasantly undemanding on the brain after a hard day's work - but
she does get details wrong (she's very weak on costume and class
relationships - as is Stephen Saylor); but one can only know this by looking
at original evidence first.
Bene valete,
Vado.
> >Tom News Wrote:
> >Nick,
> > Thanks for the advice. The Colleen McCullough books are giberish,
aren't
> >they.
>
> Pompeia******I cannot agree with the above statement, sorry. In order to
> appreciate Colleen McCullough, one has to realize that the purpose of her
> writing books is not to provide rote historical information. It is to
> write fiction based on history, that is history with her perceptions of
the
> characters and how events went down in detail. Every novelist
> sensationalizes and biases to some extent. But she is not writing a
history
> essay; nor does she profess to such; she's writing "a story"..."historical
> fiction".
>
> I will say, though, that with major events and characters, her names,
dates,
> places, from what I've seen, are usually "right on the money". Two
> exeptions I've picked up; Caesar's first wife, McCullough called
"Cinilla",
> where her name was Cornelia, daughter of Cornelius Cinna. I believe she
did
> this purposely to prevent confusion of her with Cornelia, daughter of
Sulla.
> Also, Pompeia Rufia, second wife of Caesar, McCullough called "Pompeia
> Sulla", to prevent confusion with Pompeia, sister of Pompeius Magnus,
and/or
> daughter of Magnus. There are likely others.
>
> Speaking as one who has had an afinity for Rome and its history since I
was
> a kid (ages ago!!) plus one who's read several McCullough books, including
> her nonRoman works, I find her an author whose stories dance off the page
of
> a book into life...you are there, a part of the scenero. I can't put her
> down. She can write about anything; I will in all likelihood read it and
> enjoy it.
>
> She's a literary genius, in my opinion.
>
> Valete!
> Pompeia Cornelia Strabo
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Statement of the Amici Dignitatis |
| From: |
"Nick Ford" <gens_moravia@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 23 Nov 2000 21:39:40 -0000 |
|
Quiritibus salutem
In response to A. Gryllus' concerns about Item 2 of the Dignitatis
Statement:
> 2) that the government of Nova Roma and all of its associated
>sodalitates, lists, and fora are to be free and open to all citizens;
>I protest against this item if it includes the Senate, Religious Collegia
>and Sodalitates. For example, I'm a member of the Sodalitas Cultorum
>Mithrae, which is a secret society as appropriate to the Mysteries of
>Mithras. I'm sure that other similar organisations have the same feeling.
...I'd like to say that membership of the Senate is open to all citizens
willing to do the necessary work to get there; the Collegium Pontificum
likewise. These have closed e-lists
for the appropriate office-holders only, just as there is a closed e-list
for provincial governors and their officers who are signatories to the Limes
Co-operation Project. Then there is a closed e-list purely for members of
gens Cornelia.
The Sodales (including mystery cults) are also open to everyone who wishes
to apply and who fulfills the requisite criteria.
So all these fora are open to citizens, as long as they are the kind of
people these fora are for.
Free, unrestricted admission to all such lists would be an absurd nightmare.
Nobody (I hope?!) who signed the Statement was insisting on that. I'm fairly
sure there are no anarcho-syndicalists among us who want to make every
citizen a Senator-Pontiff- Provincial government officer of the Cornelian
gens-cook-Latinist-poetry lover-law buff- Egressus-military historian-stoic
philosopher AND a Mithraic initiate, whether they want to be or not, because
it would be Good For Them and In The Interests Of a Shining Egalitarian
Future... (shudder).
Joking apart, what is important to me about Section 2 of the Statement is
that - for example - it implies to me that judicial procedure should not be
held in camera but open to public observation - just as in Britain any
citizen is free to attend and observe a trial in the law courts. Similarly,
in the British Houses of Parliament there is a Visitors' Gallery, by means
of which a limited number of citizens can exercise their right to observe
their government at work. I think we could easily extend such a facility to
citizens of our Respublica.
We can go one stage further. In ancient Rome, magistrates conducted their
day-to-day business from their own homes, and any citizen had the right to
present him- or herself there with a reasonable and relevant request, and be
heard. In exemplary fashion, Senator and Propraetor Graecus' Lusitania
website (when I last looked) makes this accessibility explicit with an open
invitation. But then, people have to know who, what, and where you are. In
Roma Antiqua, seeing and being seen was part of the auctoritas and dignitas
of public life. One has only to contrast the popularity of Augustus with the
unpopularity of Tiberius to see that this is so.
That evident accessibility, I think, is the kind of thing we want more of in
Nova Roma. Senators, magistrates - don't let 'em think your're dead (or
indulging secret vices on a small island off the Campagnian coast).
Hope this clears up any confusion.
Bene valete
Vado.
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| Subject: |
[Fwd: Re: [novaroma]The Statement of the Amici Dignitatis] |
| From: |
<gmvick32@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 23 Nov 2000 15:56:11 -0700 |
|
Salvete Praetor Gryllus et Draco:
"S. Apollonius Draco" wrote:
> Salvete Praetor Graece et Livia Cornelia,
>
> GRAECUS: The word "secret" was employed because just like
> any other Mystery
> cult, the Mithraic Mysteries have their secrets. On the
> other hand, citizens
> have all the right to form NOT-OFFICIAL secret
> Sodalitates. Just call it
> "group of friends with similar interests" or anything you
> think is
> appropriate.
>
> DRACO: But then it wouldn't be a Sodalitas in the way it
> is perceived in NR,
> would it? Although a religious Mystery cult isn't a
> Mystery cult for
> nothing, of course, I don't think it should be secret.
LIVIA PART TWO: Gosh almighty. All I was trying to say
was.....how would somebody not aware of the Mithraic
cult/sodalitas/whatever you want to call it find out about
it??? In other words....WITH NO JUDGEMENT THAT ANYBODY
INVOLVED IN IT NOW IS DOING ANYTHING AMISS......how might we
make sure that others in Nova Roma interested in Mithraism
be able to join the cult if they wished AND it was agreeable
to the existing members. Otherwise, the mystery sect is
nothing more than a clique for the in-crowd.
Perhaps I really just misunderstood what you meant by a
secret Sodalitas. To me that means one which nobody is
suppossed to know exists.
> LIVIA: I'm a private citizen too. I'm trying to
> participate in Nova Roma
> too, and I'm not finding acceptance or avenues to
> participate in anything
> tangible within Nova Roma to be easy. I'm a little hurt
> by the people who
> tell me that my input is unwarranted and to just keep my
> mouth shut while
> citizens of senior standing figure things out.
>
> GRAECUS: How have you tried to participate? To lauch
> unfair inflamating
> suspicion on the mainlist about what others are doing is
> not a good way of
> participating. Do something useful. Instead, write a good
> essay, write new
> material for the Web site.
LIVIA PART TWO: Gryllus probably isn't aware, but I am
actually one of the Nova Roma Rogators, a member of Consul
Audens' staff, Propraetrix of America Austroccidentalis, and
building a website for my gens. I've been trying quite a
bit to participate, and to make Nova Roma a place where more
people can participate. All respect intended; I know
Gryllus and others who have been here a lot longer have
contributed more than I in my five months.
So let me qualify my statement.....it's easy to find
somebody who has a project that they are willing to accept
offers of help for. It's a far more difficult thing, it
seems, to be accepted into the Nova Roma fold on a personal
level, especially by people who have been around awhile. I
won't be around long if all I'm valued for is my work and
not as a human being with a love of Rome first. There are
notable exceptions to this generality though, and at least
in my case they know who they are.
How is this to remain constructive? Well again, I know I'm
guilty of taking an agressive and/or strident tone in my
posts at times. In large part, that's a reaction to finding
the same sort of agressive tone in a lot of other posts. It
seemed to me that this was how people communicate in Nova
Roma. But, after a little more experience, I suspect it's
not what people enjoy and I know I don't enjoy it. So to
keep this constructive, let me just raise awareness of the
fact that people get agressive with each other in posts
needlessly sometimes. Let's all agree that we're all trying
to participate in Nova Roma, and see each other as allies in
that cause, please. Which includes refraining telling
people to shut up, or that they should stop talking until
they've started doing, or.....please.....that one person
works harder for Nova Roma, and therefore their opinion
counts more. I am trying to stay civilized. I hope for the
same from others.
> LIVIA: I have to say: as a civis of Nova Roma, I'm 100%
> not interested in
> having my participation in Nova Roma be to wait around
> with my mouth shut
> and no opportunity to participate in meaningful
> discussions of civic affairs
> until such time as the Senate and Magistrates are able, as
> they alone see
> fit and proper, to consult with the Comitia. I didn't
> join Nova Roma to sit
> idle while a small handful has cloistered itself away and
> keeps the process
> of participation in Nova Roma close to themselves until
> such time as they
> will "allow" others to participate. If that's to be the
> purpose of Nova
> Roma, we should close our doors to membership and leave
> the Senate and
> >Magistrates to be a self-contained body with no external
> stressors (i.e.,
> simple cives) to distract them.
>
> GRAECUS: Again, you have misinterpreted my words, maybe on
> purpose....
>
> DRACO: Although I may not be in 100% agreement with
> everything Livia says, I
> think that making allusions like this one can be hardly
> constructive.
LIVIA PART TWO: My apologies if I was out of line. There
was no intent to misconstrue anything. I was merely
stating....I want a continuously active venue for meaningful
(including both constructive AND non-attacking) discourse on
issues of interest to Nova Roma.
> GRAECUS: ...What I tried to say is that the Senate and
> Magistrates have no
> desire of establishing a dictatorship as some are unjustly
> thinking and
> saying publicly. The Senators and Magitrates are normal
> people with their
> lifes and responsibilities in the outside and as such we
> all must understand
> their limitations. Nevertheless they have so far
> accomplished many things. I
> specially praise both Consuls, both Censores and Curulis
> Aedilis Marcus
> Octavius Germanicus for their efforts.
LIVIA PART TWO: I never said they were trying to establish
a dictatorship. They should be thanked for the work they
do. That doesn't mean that there aren't other people in
Nova Roma whose opinions, experience, and willingness to
participate cannot also be useful.
> GRAECUS: Fine! Please candidate yourself in the next
> elections and perform
> better next year.
LIVIA PART TWO: I can't, because I'm Rogator and that makes
me unable to stand. Besides, I'm a Propraetrix and so I'll
be very busy as that develops. I never intended to speak
negatively towards any of the Magistrates. I just don't
accept the reasoning that "it's difficult on a Magistrate to
summon the Comitia, so therefore we won't summon the
Comita". The Comitia will simply have to be summoned
sometimes. Let's put our effort towards devising a process
whereby the burden of doing so is easier.
> DRACO: Is there really some insinuation in Livia's words
> that the current
> Magistrates are performing badly? I can't see it.
LIVIA PART TWO: Thank you for your support, Draco.
Livia Cn. Aurelia
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] a question about the Comitia |
| From: |
"Lucius Pompeius Octavianus" <octavianuslucius@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 23 Nov 2000 22:53:04 -0000 |
|
L. Pompeius Octavianus omnibus civibus S.P.D.
After reading some messages, I realized that I do not know anything
about the Comitia. Could anyone explain me about it and how it works
?.
I appreciate any help. Thank you in advance.
Valete bene et habete fortunam bonam
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Statement of the Amici Dignitatis |
| From: |
<gmvick32@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 23 Nov 2000 16:16:30 -0700 |
|
Salvete, Quirities:
Nick Ford wrote:
> We can go one stage further. In ancient Rome, magistrates
> conducted their day-to-day business from their own homes,
> and any citizen had the right to present him- or herself
> there with a reasonable and relevant request, and be
> heard. In exemplary fashion, Senator and Propraetor
> Graecus' Lusitania
> website (when I last looked) makes this accessibility
> explicit with an open invitation. But then, people have
> to know who, what, and where you are. In Roma Antiqua,
> seeing and being seen was part of the auctoritas and
> dignitas of public life. One has only to contrast the
> popularity of Augustus with the
> unpopularity of Tiberius to see that this is so.
>
> That evident accessibility, I think, is the kind of thing
> we want more of in Nova Roma.
Exactly right, dear Vado!!! And having people know who,
what, and where you are requires commitment to the effort of
communication. Building something and saying....it's there!
I did it! is the easy part. Raising awareness is difficult
and necessary, especially in a virtual community.
Now I'm curious and will have to figure out how to view the
Lusitania website as a model for my provincial website.
Livia Cn Aurelia
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