Subject:	[novaroma] Zeugma Documentary Now on The History Channel
From:	Iulia66198@--------
Date:	Tue, 2 Jan 2001 20:14:00 EST

For anyone who gets it, The History Channel is at this very moment showing a
documentary regarding the excavations at Zeugma. This programme will be
re-shown at 12 midnight, eastern time.

Iulia Cassia

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Wide Apology
From:	Ira Adams <iadams@-------->
Date:	Tue, 2 Jan 2001 21:20:14 -0600

Salve Nicolaus Moravius

Thank you for responding thus. I accept your hand and your warning about
the seating. There shall indeed be peace between us.

Vale,

L. Sergius Aust. Obst.


On 1/2/01 6:18 PM Nicolaus Moravius (n_moravius@--------) wrote:

>Nicolaus Moravius Lucio Sergio salutem
>
>It is written: "As a bird is known by its song, so is a man by his
>conversation."
>
>I am glad that you express regret for intemperate words this past year. For
>my part, I regret them too. Here is my virtual hand. Sit pax inter nos.
>
>When you take your seat in the Senate, to which all your imminent colleagues
>who voted have welcomed you (except me), may the heated cushion of patientia
>protect you from the pain in the podex otherwise afforded by the cold hard
>marble bench of collegial severitas.
>
>And may the discourse in the Senate this year be as a garden of
>nightingales.
>
>Vale,
>
>Vado.
>

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] The Senate Vote on Draco
From:	Ira Adams <iadams@-------->
Date:	Tue, 2 Jan 2001 21:20:16 -0600

Salve Marcus Apollonius

Without speaking to the factual issues (I really don't think I know all
to which the Censor and the Consul were responding), I feel moved to say
that your defense of Sextus Apollonius is well-said and does you credit.

Vale,

L. Sergius Aust. Obst.


On 1/2/01 11:28 AM M. Apollonius Formosanus (bvm3@--------) wrote:

>M. Apollonius Formosanus omnibus Quiriibus S.P.D.
>
>Censor L. Cornelius Sulla Felix made the following unfortunate
>statement about my filius Sextus Apollonius Draco in a comment to his
>senate vote on giving the latter an age waiver:
>
>L. Cornelius Sulla: Negat Comment: Political disagreements I can
>handle. I believe I show that I can. However, one, no matter how
>young or old, insults a senior in the magisterial hierarchy. For one
>to do that shows disrespect to every political office in Nova Roma.
>This means that not only is he insulting my dignitas but he is
>insulting the dignitas of the Consuls, Praetors and Senators.
>_______
>
> If a person makes a moral judgement on someone (whether insulting or
>laudatory), it should not matter where the judged stands in any
>hierarchy. A magistrate or senator should so act as to add dignitas
>to the position, not expect to take his dignitas from that position.
>
> Further, from a logical point of view, insulting one or more
>individuals is NOT the same as insulting a whole class. I know that
>Sextus holds a great deal of respect for many persons who happen to
>be senators or magistrates - and I do no think that they feel
>insulted by him.
>
> It should also be considered that in many cases Sextus was reacting
>to what he perceived as insults or untruths from the said censor,
>whether directed at me, himself or others. A magistracy should not be
>used as a shield from behind which to take potshots at cives with a
>supposition of immunity from their response.
>
> I thought the above deserved special comment, as it shows the kind
>of mindset we must not have if we want Nova Roma to be a success and
>and a pleasant place to live.
>
> As his paterfamilias, however, I must also take exception to the
>comments of Consul F. Vedius Germanicus on the same occasion, in
>which he accused Sextus of "immaturity". In the heat of the elections
>various candidates and others said things quite immature indeed, and
>I do not think my filius does not stand out in that respect. A better
>judgement of his maturity might be gotten from what he has managed to
>accomplish, in Gallia for example, where his enthusiasm and
>organising abiliy got a whole province off the ground. I have
>personally found him to be extraordinarily mature and capable.
>
> I thank the majority voting in the senate who correctly assessed my
>gentilis and showed respect for the will of the People in electing
>him - or at least trying to. Gratias!
>
>Valete!
>
>
>
>Marcus Apollonius Formosanus
>Paterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae (http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/)

Subject:	[novaroma] The Comitia Curiata is Called to Order
From:	cassius622@--------
Date:	Tue, 2 Jan 2001 23:27:01 EST

Salvete,

As Pontifex Maximus I hereby call the Comitia Curiata to order, so that our
newly elected officials may be vested with Imperium in accordance with
ancient Roman custom and Nova Roman law.

A call to order has been posted in the Comita Curiata list, and instructions
for investment of Imperium have been given.

If you are a Lictor, and are not yet subscribed to the Comitia Curiata list,
please email me ASAP at: cassius@--------

If you would like to volunteer to be a Lictor, please write to the Collegium
Pontificum at: pontifices@-------- There is still time to be approved
and participate in this year's investment. No doubt the Comitia Curiata will
be called to order for other single investments of Imperium as well, as
individual positions are appointed or elected at need.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pontifex Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[novaroma] Investment of Imperium
From:	jmath669642reng@--------
Date:	Wed, 3 Jan 2001 00:14:32 -0500 (EST)

Salvete, Citizens of Nova Roma;

I, Marcus Minucius Audens, as a Lictor of Nova Roma and a member of the
Honored Comitia Curiata, come before you to do honor to those Newly
Elected Magistrates for this coming year.

With my best wishes to you all, I hereby stand as witness and
acknowledge the passing of Imperium--that power to carry out the elected
duties and uphold the laws, to this year's Magistrates of Nova Roma.

I most humbly stand silent with my head covered, and wish well the Gods
and Goddesses of Rome as well as the Rising and Mighty Spirit of Roma
Antiqua to keep watch over the Magistrates, Nova Roma Nation, and the
Stalwart Citizens of Nova Roma throughout this coming year.

Valete, Very Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens;
Lictor of Nova Roma

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

Subject:	[novaroma] Investment of Imperium
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla <alexious@-------->
Date:	Tue, 02 Jan 2001 20:30:26 -0800

I, Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix as a Lictor of Nova Roma and a member of
the Comitia
Curiata, hereby witness and acknowledge the passing of Imperium - the
power to carry out elected duties and uphold the laws, to this year's
magistrates of Nova Roma.

May the Gods and the spirit of Roma Antiqua watch over our
Magistrates, our Nation and our Citizens in the coming year.

Valete,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Lictor of Nova Roma

Subject:	[novaroma] Investing Imperium - In the newly elected Magistrates
From:	Piparskegg UllRsson <catamount_grange@-------->
Date:	Wed, 03 Jan 2001 02:01:35 -0600

Salvete Omnes,

Venator scripsit -

I, Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator, am a Lictor of Nova Roma and a member of the Comitia Curiata.

As such, it is both my duty and pleasure to hereby witness and acknowledge the passing of Imperium.
-- id est, the power that grants authority to carry out elected duties and the responsibility uphold
the laws --
to the newly elected magistrates of Nova Roma who will serve from Ianuarius 2753 AUC until December
2754 AUC.

May the Holy Ones of the Pantheon and the Genius of Roma Antiqua continue to watch over our
Magistrates,
our Nation and our Citizens in the coming year.

Onward the work!

--
===========================================
In Amicus sub Fidelis, Benedicte Omnes!
- Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
Cives, Paterfamilias Gens Ulleria
Lictor, Dominus Sodalis

Subject:	[novaroma] Fwd: Lucius Fabius Metellus bestows Imperium
From:	sfp55@--------
Date:	Wed, 3 Jan 2001 03:02:11 EST

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[novaroma] Fwd: Lucius Fabius Metellus bestows Imperium
From:	sfp55@--------
Date:	Wed, 3 Jan 2001 05:21:51 EST

(I'm forwarding this to the main list as Lucius Fabius can't seem get it to
go on QFM)

Salvete...
I follow Lucius Cornelius Sulla and intone:

"I, Lucius Fabius Metellus, Lictor of Nova Roma, member of
the Comitia Curiata, do hereby bestow Imperium to this year's
magistrates of Nova Roma so they may carry out their duties according to our
constitution."

"The patron goddess of the Fabii is Vesta, so I ask that Vesta especially be
watchful
and helpful to the Magistrates in the coming year.
My personal God is Mars, so I ask that Mars imbibe with courage our
Magistrates, and give them the strength to carry out their tasks, even when
faced with difficulty."

Valete,

Lucius Fabius Metellus
Lictor of Nova Roma
Member of the Comitia Curiata

Subject:	[novaroma] Investment of Imperium
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Wed, 3 Jan 2001 08:06:59 -0500

I, Flavius Vedius Germanicus, as a Lictor Curiata of Nova Roma and a member
of the Comitia Curiata, hereby witness and acknowledge the passing of
Imperium - the power to carry out elected duties and uphold the laws, to
this year's magistrates of Nova Roma.

May the Gods and the spirit of Roma Antiqua watch over our Magistrates, our
Nation and our Citizens in the coming year.

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus
Lictor Curiata of Nova Roma

Subject:	[novaroma] INVESTMENT OF IMPERIUM
From:	BICURRATUS@--------
Date:	Wed, 3 Jan 2001 08:29:14 EST

I, Publius Claudius Lucentius Severus Bicurratus, as a Lictor of Nova Roma
and a member of the Comitia Curiata, hereby witness and acknowledge the
passing of Imperium - the power to carry out elected duties and uphold the
laws - to this year's magistrates of Nova Roma.

May the Gods and the spirit of Roma Antiqua watch over our Magistrates, our
Nation and our Citizens in the coming year.

Valete,

Publius Claudius Lucentius Severus Bicurratus
Lictor of Nova Roma


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[novaroma] Investing Imperium
From:	"Thomas Gangale"<marcus@-------->
Date:	Wed, 3 Jan 2001 15:37:40 GMT

Salvete,

I, Marcus Martianus Gangalius, as a Lictor of Nova Roma and a member of the
Comitia Curiata, hereby witness and acknowledge the passing of Imperium - the
power to carry out elected duties and uphold the laws, to this year's magistrates
of Nova Roma.

May the Gods and the spirit of Roma Antiqua watch over our
Magistrates, our Nation and our Citizens in the coming year.

Valete,

Marcus Martianus Gangalius
Lictor of Nova Roma
http://www.martiana.org
"Contendere, explorare, invenire, et non cedere."

Subject:	[novaroma] Draco's Candidacy
From:	jmath669642reng@--------
Date:	Wed, 3 Jan 2001 10:39:13 -0500 (EST)

Salve, Marcus Appolonius Formosanus;

Once more you come before the Citizens of Nova Roma with your personal
sureity that what you think is right is right for all:

"I thank the majority voting in the Senate who CORRECTLY assessed my
gentilis---" (The capitalization is mine)

I am consistantly surprised by your continued insistance that whatever
your opinions, beliefs, ideas or considerations may be, that they are
what is absolutely right for this micronation and any disagreement with
your view is to immediately to be attacked, regardless of the laws or
rules under which this micronation operates.

You wanted to know the results of the Senate Vote, and insisted on the
reasoning behind the vote, and you now have them. So the first action
that you take with this new information is to attack the Senators with
whom you disagree on this list with a very individual and singular
attitude.

Young Draco and I have discussed a few items and he seems to me to be an
alert young man. His efforts in organization are much applauded, and
his abilities seem to me to be above the average 17 1/2 year old young
man. I have dealt with many such during my years with the BSA and they
brought much honor to themselves and to the organization. However in my
view, young Draco needs exactly the kind of encouragement and guidance
that he is getting here in Nova Roma.

He has a group of friends which support him, and give him opportunities
to further show him how to organize his abilities for both himself and
this mironation. He has tasted the disappointment of not being able to
do as he wishes simply because of his age, which all of us have tasted.
He will, if he is the person I think he is, swallow his disappointment,
learn from it and come back even a better person in all respects than
before.

He does not need someone constantly declaring how wrong those who voted
against his Candidacy were, and how his paterfamilius is always right
and everyone else is wrong.

As my young son used to say to me, "Dad, how come Johnny across the
street can play after dark and I can't." My response being--

"I can't do much about Johnny across the street, but you are going to
bed."

In the same venue, I have nothing to say in regard to my Senatorial
Colleagues and thier decisions. However, my decisions are my own, and I
believe there may be just the slightest possibility than as talented,
active, interesting, and eager as young Draco is--there may just be a
few minor things that this 17 1/2 year old young man has to learn. Of
course there is a Lex in force which the Senate has placed there for a
very good reason, but of course, you will in all probabiity not be
interested in that fact since it does not figure into what you are sure
is right for this micronation, in this particular case.

Frankly, in my view, you would do better for your son to encourage him
to do here as he is able, to contribute without consideration for the
limitations of his age, and to accept the decisions of those elected as
the arbiters of this micronation---the rest of us have to, why not young
Draco?

I see no reason why young Draco should give the lie to a Senator of our
micro-nation, without determining politely whether or not is was a
mistake. I do not care for that kind of response to a Senator.
However, all in all, I think Draco is behaving in this situation better
than his paterfamilius. I am sure that you will bring the comments of
others into this, but as I have said before, I do not speak for them, as
they are mature individuals and have their own minds under our laws, and
young Draco does not. I have chastised those whom I disapprove of in
private, on many occasions, and those who have recieved my criticism
certainly are aware of it.

____________________________________
Draco:

You have just been delivered a disappointment. You will probably not
see it in the way that I do, but it will do more for your growth than 10
victories. If you are the young man I think you are, you will consider
this a challenge. You will continue your work in Nova Roma, and you
will learn in detail those things that you well know that you need to
have at your fingertips. You will modify your speech, and remember that
today's enemy is tomorrow's needed colleague.

You will listen to all those appointed above you, keep your counsel,
until you may speak upon your own, and not with the permission of
others. You will spend this time learning and practising those words,
activities and natures that will stand you in good stead when your age
will no longer be a hinderence to your desired activities. You will
spend this tie wisely and learn the values of the Roman Virtues and
attempt to apply them to every facet of your involvement both here and
elsewhere. In doing that you will see that all have a view, and that
very, very seldom will you find anyone who is ALL wrong or for that
matter, right in every situation.

My young friend, I am one who has handed you your disappointment. I
have an admiration for you and what you have done. I do not however
think you are ready for what you desire. I have stood several times
where you stand now, and in later life realized that those who made the
decisions which at the time disappointed me, had my best interests at
heart. It is my hope that you will come to such a realization as well.
In any event, I wish you well, I hope that you are the person that I
believe you to be, and I hope further, that you will continue to work
within our micronation.

Vale, Respectfully;
Marcus Audens
ProConsul et Senator

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

Subject:	[novaroma] Investment of Imperium
From:	labienus@--------
Date:	Wed, 3 Jan 2001 12:05:54 US/Central

T Labienus Fortunatus quiritibus SPD

As a lictor of Nova Roma and a member of the Comitia Curiata, I hereby witness
and acknowledge the passing of imperium - the power to carry out elected duties
and uphold the laws - to this year's duly elected magistrates.

May the Gods and the spirit of Roma Antiqua watch over our magistrates, our
nation, and our citizens in the coming year.

Valete

Subject:	[novaroma] Reconciliation
From:	"M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@-------->
Date:	Wed, 03 Jan 2001 19:26:07 +0200

M. Apollonius Formosanus L. Sergio Obstinato S.P.D.

Seeing the noble example of Flamen Vado before me, I feel that I
too should let the things you might have said in the (considerable) heat
of campaigning be bygones, as it seems the generous wideness of your
apology must be applicable to me too. I will not forget that you did in
the year past make a try to use your tribunician powers in a manner
favourable to a matter of concern to me, nor that you have recently most
graciously posted on my defense of my filius. Therefore, I say with
Vado, Sit inter nos pax! And you may visualise my virtual hand reaching
out to yours...

Bene vale, Senator!
_________________________________

Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 18:18:53
From: "Nicolaus Moravius" <n_moravius@-------->
Subject: Re: Wide Apology

Nicolaus Moravius Lucio Sergio salutem

It is written: "As a bird is known by its song, so is a man by his
conversation."

I am glad that you express regret for intemperate words this past year.
For
my part, I regret them too. Here is my virtual hand. Sit pax inter nos.

When you take your seat in the Senate, to which all your imminent
colleagues
who voted have welcomed you (except me), may the heated cushion of
patientia
protect you from the pain in the podex otherwise afforded by the cold
hard
marble bench of collegial severitas.

And may the discourse in the Senate this year be as a garden of
nightingales.

Vale,

Vado.



>Wide apology:
>In perusing my archives for information on the above matters, I found
>myself reading angry, hostile, aggressive posts, public and private,
some
>of which turned out to have been authored by people for whom I have
great
>respect and affection, and some of which were directed at those same
>people by none other than me! (As in "My God! He said that to me?? And
I
>said that to him??")
>
>I am struck by how much progress many of us have made over the past
year,
>in learning to work together without letting our passions and paranoia
>and egoistic needs interfere with our duties and our common bonds.
>
>I would hope that our incoming new magistrates will be wiser and more
>temperate in their opinions and actions than I, at least, was a year
ago.
>
>I stand here and now to apologize to any and all against whom I may
have
>directed angry, intemperate words in learning to carry out my duties as
i
>have seen them over the past year. If my words were not directed toward

>you but you felt offended by them, then I apologize to you also.
>
>I am thankful we have sparred with words and not with swords!
>
>Valete,
>
>L. Sergius Aust. Obst.
>ex-Tribune of Nova Roma

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] The Senate Vote on Draco
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Wed, 3 Jan 2001 11:45:41 +0100

Salve,

Thank you for your comments on my situation on the main list. Our
relationship wasn't too good during the election battles, so I hope that may
change!

Vale bene,
Sextus Apollonius Draco

Subject:	[novaroma] ATTN [Religio Romana] ante diem III Nonas Ianuarias (January 3rd)
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <amg@-------->
Date:	Wed, 3 Jan 2001 18:40:14 -0800

Salvete omnes

This is one of the dies comitiales (C), when assemblies of citizens can vote
on political or criminal matters.

The Compitalia or celebration of the Lares Compitales (Lares that protect
the crossroads) takes place at the crossroads of both the city of Rome and
the sorrounding countryside on January 3rd, 4th or 5th as fixed by the
Praetores Urbani. The 'magistri vicorum' (chiefs of streets) preside the
ceremony, organising the games and sport competitions.
During Imperial times, the Lares were celebrated during all the three days
and the celebration became associated with the Imperial cult.

The month Ianuarius is sacred to Ianus.


Valete bene in Pace Deorum
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] The Senate Vote on Draco
From:	"Jeroen Meuleman" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Wed, 3 Jan 2001 19:38:10 +0100

This should have been directed to Australicus privately. I apologize for the
inconvenience.


> Salve,
>
> Thank you for your comments on my situation on the main list. Our
> relationship wasn't too good during the election battles, so I hope that
may
> change!
>
> Vale bene,
> Sextus Apollonius Draco
>
>
>
>
>

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Draco's Candidacy
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Wed, 3 Jan 2001 21:42:23 +0100

S. Apollonius Draco M. Minucio Audenti SPD

<snipped>

> He has a group of friends which support him, and give him opportunities
> to further show him how to organize his abilities for both himself and
> this mironation. He has tasted the disappointment of not being able to
> do as he wishes simply because of his age, which all of us have tasted.
> He will, if he is the person I think he is, swallow his disappointment,
> learn from it and come back even a better person in all respects than
> before.
>
> He does not need someone constantly declaring how wrong those who voted
> against his Candidacy were, and how his paterfamilius is always right
> and everyone else is wrong.

I would like to add a few words here. Some people have said similar things
in the past, as though I am being indoctrinated by my paterfamilias. This is
far from the truth. We share a lot of views, but we differ at some points,
too. Despite my age, I find myself being capable of making my own judgements
;-).

<snip>

> Frankly, in my view, you would do better for your son to encourage him
> to do here as he is able, to contribute without consideration for the
> limitations of his age, and to accept the decisions of those elected as
> the arbiters of this micronation---the rest of us have to, why not young
> Draco?

I respect the decision of the Senate, and have no hard feelings about this.
There are plenty of other opportunities to take - what did anger me were the
comments of some of your fellow Senatores, which I (and other people, too)
believed to be injust and unfair.

<snip>

> Draco:
>
> You have just been delivered a disappointment. You will probably not
> see it in the way that I do, but it will do more for your growth than 10
> victories. If you are the young man I think you are, you will consider
> this a challenge. You will continue your work in Nova Roma, and you
> will learn in detail those things that you well know that you need to
> have at your fingertips. You will modify your speech, and remember that
> today's enemy is tomorrow's needed colleague.

Absolutely. I can and do not expect everything to be perfect here for me.
It's from the adversities someone can learn the most, and I will learn from
this! :-)

> You will listen to all those appointed above you, keep your counsel,
> until you may speak upon your own, and not with the permission of
> others. You will spend this time learning and practising those words,
> activities and natures that will stand you in good stead when your age
> will no longer be a hinderence to your desired activities. You will
> spend this tie wisely and learn the values of the Roman Virtues and
> attempt to apply them to every facet of your involvement both here and
> elsewhere. In doing that you will see that all have a view, and that
> very, very seldom will you find anyone who is ALL wrong or for that
> matter, right in every situation.

Of course. Without wanting to sound arrogant, I learnt this already to a
degree. I don't believe in anyone who is purely good or purely bad, and
judgements of mine do not continue on to the absolute. I am prepared to
reconcile, but all I desire right now is a public apology from Censor Sulla
for his unfair and personally directed judgement of me. As I am pretty
familiar with some Roman Virtues, and not in the least Dignitas (smirk ;-)),
I feel hurt in my natural dignity by his comments (and to a lesser degree
that of some others). But it's not so that I see everyone who voted against
me as evil or as my personal enemies. Certainly not!

> My young friend, I am one who has handed you your disappointment. I
> have an admiration for you and what you have done. I do not however
> think you are ready for what you desire. I have stood several times
> where you stand now, and in later life realized that those who made the
> decisions which at the time disappointed me, had my best interests at
> heart. It is my hope that you will come to such a realization as well.
> In any event, I wish you well, I hope that you are the person that I
> believe you to be, and I hope further, that you will continue to work
> within our micronation.

Even though I do not completely agree with you, I shall certainly continue
my efforts for Nova Roma!

Vale bene,
Sextus Apollonius Draco