| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] State of the Province -America Boreoccidentalis and related to... |
| From: |
BICURRATUS@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 6 Jan 2001 19:31:16 EST |
|
EX DOMO PUBLII CLAUDII LUCENTII SEVERI BICURRATI
> This is because the Lex Cornelia de Privatus Rebus. It
> protects confidential information of all citizens.
>
Wouldn't it be easier to add a simple question, along the lines of 'I
agree/do not agree to my email address being released to other citizens of
Nova Roma on request' to the application for citizenship? The Lex wouldn't be
broken and those witholding their email address are still protected?
P. Cl. Lucen. Sev. Bicurratus
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] State of the Province -America Boreoccidentalis and related to... |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 6 Jan 2001 19:58:16 -0500 |
|
Salvete;
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BICURRATUS@-------- [mailto:BICURRATUS@--------]
> Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 7:31 PM
>
> Wouldn't it be easier to add a simple question, along the lines of 'I
> agree/do not agree to my email address being released to other citizens of
> Nova Roma on request' to the application for citizenship? The Lex wouldn't
be
> broken and those witholding their email address are still protected?
I think this is a splendid idea, and it seems to me that it shouldn't be all
that hard to incorporate into the Citizenship application and Censorial
database (if you look at the citizen profiles, there is already a spot for
email address, but all the ones I've seen say "private").
I think that, in addition to asking the question of all new cives, it
shouldn't be too much trouble to send out a mass email to already-existing
cives asking them if they wished to make their email address public.
(Perhaps the system could be automated; "if you reply to this message, your
email will be made public, if you do nothing, your email will remain
private".)
Valete,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul
email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] On youth and public service |
| From: |
Craig Stevenson <dougies@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 07 Jan 2001 13:06:11 +1030 |
|
Ave quirites et pater conscripti,
I must say, Germanicus, that your examples are a bit generalised. Out here in
Australia, a person is considered an adult upon turning 18, where they are at
full liberty to drink, vote and drive (not at the same time, of course ;-) ).
I beleive that once a person enters adulthood (in the region or country they are
living in) that they should be able to run for magistracies. After all, there
are many among the youth of Nova Roma who not only vote, but pay, taxes, have a
job, etc. Is that not responsibility?
Thanks for listening to my ranting. I mean no disrespect to the esteemed Flavius
Germanicus.
Valete bene all,
Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura
Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote:
> Salvete, Omnes;
>
> The recent threads on the possibility of lowering the age requirements for
> magistracies (in which good points have been raised on all sides) has gotten
> me thinking on the general role of young people in our society. I think a
> broad discussion of this role would be more appropriate at this time, rather
> than quibbling over details (that can come later! *grin*).
>
> Because we are yet a micronation (and seem destined to remain so for the
> foreseeable future), we are forced to acceed to macronational demands in
> certain things. One of these things is the minimum age for membership (or
> Citizenship, as we call it), which our Constitution defines as whatever the
> age of self-management ("sui juris") is in one's macronation of residence
> (not the age of 18, although that is a pretty common standard).
> Historically, this was younger in Roma Antiqua, but our circumstances
> compell us to obey such restrictions.
>
> Much more open are our options concerning our public servants. With some few
> exceptions (the Consuls, Censors, Senators etc. who double as officers of
> the corporation and thus have macronational restrictions that must be
> abided), we are free to establish whatever guidelines we wish for our
> magistrates and other public officials.
>
> As it stands, our law (the Lex Iunia de Magistratum Aetate) stipulates the
> age of 21 as the earliest one can serve as a magistrate (with older minimums
> for progressively more important offices). I am in favor of keeping these
> minimums for now. Remember, these age limitations are already a compromise
> with modern sensibilities; in Roma Antiqua, one did not hold the office of
> Quaestor until around age 27! I think that, if anything, we have diverged
> from ancient precident more than enough on this particular issue, and should
> be thinking of raising those limits in years to come, as our population
> grows and our cadre of experienced public-minded cives grows. But that is a
> debate for some years' hence; leave them as they are for now.
>
> That being said, we are left with a three-year gap between the age a person
> can become a citizen (18) and the youngest they can serve as magistrate
> (21). It has been suggested that this is somehow intolerable for cives
> 18-20, and deprives the State of indispensible people desirous to serve.
>
> To the first point, I can only speak from personal experience. Did I like
> having to wait until I was 21 to drink? Of course not. Did I like having to
> wait until I was 17 to drive? Of course not. And yet I, and hundreds of
> millions of people like me, did just that and managed to survive. Sometimes
> even a teenager has to wait, alien though it may be to the nature of youth.
>
> To the second point, that we are in effect turning away capable young people
> who wish to serve, I must question its very basis. Are we saying that the
> _only_ way to serve is through one of the twenty or so magistracies that are
> out there? Is there _no_ other venue for someone-- whose stated purpose is
> merely to serve-- to be of benefit to the Republic? No, I say!
>
> Opportunities abound for someone under the age of 21 to serve Nova Roma, and
> as provincial administrations grow, and if (when) local chapters begin to
> coalesce and grow, the chances for people 18, 19, and 20 years old to serve
> will increase many times over! Serve as scribus! Serve as legatus! Start (or
> join) a reenactment legion! Start a local chapter! Distribute flyers at your
> school or other likely venue! Join a sodalicum! Write some material for the
> web site! But don't believe for a second that helping Nova Roma begins and
> ends with serving in one of the magistracies. If nothing else, two or three
> years of hard leg-work, proving your worth, will make you a much more
> attractive candidate when the time does come.
>
> And let us not forget that for that rare 19 year old whose maturity,
> commitment, energy and knowledge so stand out from the crowd as to demand a
> relaxing of the rules, our current laws make for such allowances.
>
> But the subject of this post is "youth" and not merely "young cives".
> Remember, our laws also exclude children and most teens from Citizenship
> itself (mostly to avoid macronational entanglements), but not from
> membership in gentes. Why was this done? To afford the youngest members of
> our community a way to participate without actually joining. To give a means
> by which children of citizens could participate in events, and yet avoid the
> macronational complications that child "membership" in an organization
> brings for that organization. I look to the day when the children of today's
> cives start to grow up themselves, and look with eager anticipation to their
> 18th birthday, when they can submit their formal application for
> Citizenship, having spent many a weekend growing up attending Nova Roma
> gatherings in and around their home town.
>
> To those who wish to serve, but feel they are prevented from doing so, I say
> service takes many forms, all of which can be just as important as an
> elected magistracy.
>
> Valete,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> Consul
>
> email: germanicus@--------
> AIM: Flavius Vedius
> www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Age-Laws Change |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 6 Jan 2001 22:26:14 -0500 (EST) |
|
Salve, Consul Germanicus;
In response to your specific request, In my view the special
consideration request should be submitted prior to the election.
Vale, Very Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens
Quaestor, Senator, Proconsul
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Sprachprobleme in der Nova Roma |
| From: |
StarVVreck@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 6 Jan 2001 22:41:11 EST |
|
In a message dated 1/6/01 10:37:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jrsibley@-------- writes:
<< Herr Schaefer is concerned about the English-Only Nova Roma site, and
wishes that there were more breadth for the non-English speakers. >>
There is a Germania Nova Roma website: http://www.novaroma.de/
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Digest Number 1158 |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 6 Jan 2001 22:47:03 -0500 (EST) |
|
Salvete, Citizen Draco;
Your use of the word "whelp," is, in my opinion, neither necessary nor
apprpriate in this institution. By so naming yourself and by
association others of your age-group you dishonor the whole, in my view.
I have steadfastly indicated my admiration of your accomplishments, and
I do not believe I have earned that type of response.
We disagree on a point of law, on my side some years of experience in
dealing with a large variety of young people and thier unfortunate
apptitude for undesirable actions / decisions---on your side, the
self-assurance that you and others of your age-group can do as good a
job or better than some who are of age and now hold Magisterial offices.
We have discussed this situation, between ourselves and my question to
you is still the same. How do you choose which are the mature,
intelligent and active persons and who are not. Additionally, the law
as I have indicated on several occasions was passed for good reason, and
did provide a way for "specially gifted young people" to stand for the
positions, normally restricted because of age. Now, it appears that
chance is not good enough because it is not easy enough. However, in my
view, if the law is to be meaningful, getting around the law easily is
senseless as long as the law is seen as necessary by the Citizens of
Nova Roma, which I am firmly convinced that it is.
In closing, I do not consider you or any young person a "whelp" but, I
do consider such naming of yourself and others of similar age on this
list to be inappropriate, crude and inaccurate.
Vale,
Marcus Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] On youth and public service |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 6 Jan 2001 23:00:57 -0500 |
|
Salve!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Craig Stevenson [mailto:dougies@--------]
> Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 9:36 PM
>
> I beleive that once a person enters adulthood (in the region or country
they are
> living in) that they should be able to run for magistracies. After all,
there
> are many among the youth of Nova Roma who not only vote, but pay, taxes,
have a
> job, etc. Is that not responsibility?
It is indeed responsibility. But is the mere assumption of legal "adulthood"
enough to say one is now mature enough to hold a magistracy (which, let us
not forget, involves decisions which impact hundreds-- soon hopefully
thousands-- of cives)? Is legal age in one's macronation sufficient in and
of itself to grant the power to frame or administer legislation for all of
Nova Roma? Some standard must be held, and thusfar I haven't seen any
compelling reason to lower it from 21 to 18... If you would, please indulge
me and frame your argument in terms of altering the age limit vis-a-vis Roma
Antiqua (which was 27), and tell me how three more years makes all that much
difference.
> Thanks for listening to my ranting. I mean no disrespect to the esteemed
Flavius
> Germanicus.
Not at all! Would anything get done around here if we simply rolled over and
acceeded to the first voice that happened to speak out on an issue!? I think
not! No one who disagrees should feel themselves unable to voice such
disagreement, even-- especially!-- if they disagree with me.
Vale,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul
email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Age-Laws Change |
| From: |
sfp55@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 6 Jan 2001 23:19:40 EST |
|
In a message dated 1/6/2001 8:00:19 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jmath669642reng@-------- writes:
<< In response to your specific request, In my view the special
consideration request should be submitted prior to the election.
>>
Salvete,
When the announcement to declare candidacy is made, the underage applicants
should immediately appeal to the Senate to permit them to run and if elected,
serve. It wouldn't be hard to hold a division, so the Senators could vote on
it before the week is out.
What is saved by doing this, is time and effort. While the candidate is
waiting he may go along with his political campaign, nothing says he cannot,
and the creator of the cista could hold off adding his name till Senate
approval.
Of course this means the candidate would have to throw his name "in the hat"
as soon as the declaration was made, since he has but a market interval to
campaign.
But he should have an idea that he wants to run anyway, and a last minute
addition would not help that applicant's cause.
Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus
Praetor Urbanus
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Fwd: Lets make her multi-lingual |
| From: |
StarVVreck@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 6 Jan 2001 23:35:32 EST |
|
I sent this email recently to the novaroma.org webmaster.
In a message dated 1/6/01 11:20:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, StarVVreck
writes:
<< Subj: Lets make her multi-lingual
Date: 1/6/01 11:20:51 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: StarVVreck
To: webmaster@--------
Salve,
I recently read several emails on the Nova Roma main-list about how our
website should accomidate all languages that Nova Roma citizens and possible
Nova Roma citizens speak. (A German brought it up and someone had to
translate his email for the rest of us). I found a free "instant"
translation service that can translate the website 1 page at a time. We
could use it to translate the Nova Roma website into French, German, Italian,
Portugese, and Spanish. The translation service is at:
http://www.profitinternational.com/translate/
Once there just type in the nova roma URL and click "Translate". You'll be
amazed at how accurate the service is (not quite perfect). I would also love
to help you in implementing the translations onto the website.
Vale,
Iulius Titinius Antonius >>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] On youth and public service |
| From: |
Craig Stevenson <dougies@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 07 Jan 2001 15:34:01 +1030 |
|
Ave Flavius Vedius,
I see your point...but what I meant is that people who have entered adulthood
should be given a better judgement than those who are not, especially in the
case of age dispensations. I agree that there should be some standards kept, but
surely there should be some adjustments made to the lex. I think that one of the
greatest problems we face in Nova Roma is the lack of people to fill some
magistracies, escpecially the Vingisetrix positions. Also, the quaestors
positions seem all to often to be below the filled level when it comes to
applicants. Maybe we should lower the age limit of some of the migstracies, but
I definately think we should look to the youth to fill the lower positions. If
that means we ask them to justify their candidacy, then so be it! In Roma, the
youth were trainned from children (especailly in the patrician families) to
continue in their father's footsteps. But in today's world, we are groomed,
tought, and must absorb facts and skills with a greater rate than the Roman
youth would have. An 18 -19 year old in today's world would most likely have
more or the same knowledge and skill level as a 25 year old Roman would have.
Times change, and so does the demand for a changing world.
Valete bene,
Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura
Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote:
> Salve!
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Craig Stevenson [mailto:dougies@--------]
> > Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 9:36 PM
> >
> > I beleive that once a person enters adulthood (in the region or country
> they are
> > living in) that they should be able to run for magistracies. After all,
> there
> > are many among the youth of Nova Roma who not only vote, but pay, taxes,
> have a
> > job, etc. Is that not responsibility?
>
> It is indeed responsibility. But is the mere assumption of legal "adulthood"
> enough to say one is now mature enough to hold a magistracy (which, let us
> not forget, involves decisions which impact hundreds-- soon hopefully
> thousands-- of cives)? Is legal age in one's macronation sufficient in and
> of itself to grant the power to frame or administer legislation for all of
> Nova Roma? Some standard must be held, and thusfar I haven't seen any
> compelling reason to lower it from 21 to 18... If you would, please indulge
> me and frame your argument in terms of altering the age limit vis-a-vis Roma
> Antiqua (which was 27), and tell me how three more years makes all that much
> difference.
>
> > Thanks for listening to my ranting. I mean no disrespect to the esteemed
> Flavius
> > Germanicus.
>
> Not at all! Would anything get done around here if we simply rolled over and
> acceeded to the first voice that happened to speak out on an issue!? I think
> not! No one who disagrees should feel themselves unable to voice such
> disagreement, even-- especially!-- if they disagree with me.
>
> Vale,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> Consul
>
> email: germanicus@--------
> AIM: Flavius Vedius
> www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] Uncontested elections |
| From: |
Jeff Smith <JSmithCSA@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 6 Jan 2001 21:31:50 -0800 (PST) |
|
Salve!
--- Flavius Vedius Germanicus
<germanicus@--------> wrote:
> You misunderstand me. I referred to the magistrates
> involved in running the
> election process; the curatores, the webmaster, etc.
> Not the candidates. Or
> perhaps you, with your experience as rogator, would
> support having such
> elections over and over until the same candidates
> who stood for an empty
> spot finally got a plurality of a tribe? It seems to
> me a waste of effort.
Ah! I did misunderstand you.
I don't feel that there will be election after
election. While there may be a second election, I
don't see it going beyond that.
I think the greater problem really, and there has been
a lot of discussion about this, is that we need more
candidates for office. The assumption seems to be
that there are 2 or 8 (or whatever) vacancies, and 2
or 8 (or whatever) candidates, so it's no use running.
> Actually, this is untrue. A careful reading of the
> laws governing the
> workings of the comitiae does in fact reveal that
> once the comitia is
> officially called to the vote by the appropriate
> magistrate, no new
> candidates are allowed to be considered.
Which law? I went to the website and read the laws
there that applied, and can't find it.
> I only broached the possibility in order to save our
> new rogatores the job
> of having to manage another election for Quaestor
> (in which it seemed likely
> that the previous candidates would stand and win).
> If there are more folks
> who are interested in the job now, then by all means
> let's have another
> election! Otherwise, I fail to see the point of
> going through the motions
> just to come up with the same result... (which is of
> course the whole point
> of my proposal).
How about a counter-proposal? It seems that the best
way to do this would be to announce a second election,
and find out if anyone else is interested. If no one
else announces, then those who ran but were not
elected should be declared the victors at start time.
But they should not be declared winners after the
FIRST election. After all, we had the candidates who
ran unopposed go through the election.
> Naturally! I think this is the way these things
> should go; we can disagree
> without insults, and have different opinions without
> rancor.
I thank you for this expression. This has really made
me think about how our elections are run, and has
taught me something (we can never learn enough).
Lucius Aetius Dalmaticus
=====
LTC JEFFREY C. SMITH
HQ USAREUR/7A
CMR 420, BOX 2839
APO AE 09063-2839
"It's what you learn after you know it all that counts." --Jean Rostand
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] Recruiting (was RE: State of the Province ...) |
| From: |
"Oppius Flaccus" <oppiusflaccus@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 6 Jan 2001 21:32:59 -0800 |
|
Salve Consul Germanicus et omnes,
Thanks for your detailed responses. A few additional comments
below.
Vale bene,
-Oppius
-----Original Message-----
From: Flavius Vedius Germanicus [mailto:germanicus@--------]
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 2:41 PM
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: [novaroma] Recruiting (was RE: State of the Province ...)
Salve!
Oppius Flaccus raises a number of good points, but I wanted to address one
in particular (as I think it meshes with my idea of the other day regarding
local chapters).
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Oppius Flaccus [mailto:oppiusflaccus@--------]
> Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 4:35 PM
>
> At the provincial level, it seems somewhat of a catch 22.
> On the one hand, it's hard to attract new talent without
> 'something to show' for it in terms of events, physical
> structures, etc. On the other hand, it is not possible
> to build and stage events and other social gatherings
> without dedicated cives; so around it goes.
This doesn't seem to me to be the Catch-22 you might think it is. I think it
might actually be a _plus_ to get some local interest (and recruiting some
local members) by advertising a _new_ chapter was forming (something people
could feel they were getting in "on the ground floor" of). So what if there
aren't a lot of already-active cives in your area? Go ahead and get your
own!
OFS: Point taken Germanicus. This is a very positive way of
looking at it and just the kind of encouragement one needs prior to
embarking on such a venture. One of the keys to successful growth
(provincial and national) will indeed hinge upon successful
recruitment drives. I'd like to discuss this further in the coming
days and weeks once I get some of the other kick-off tasks
accomplished. Part of this will entail getting the feedback
from others who have experienced some success with these methods.
I'm pretty sure if you were to spread the word with flyers (there are some
available for download on the website, at
http://www.novaroma.org/literature.html, but I think these might be in need
of some slight revisions on the address) at local university classics
departments, pagan (and non-pagan) bookstores, poking around SCA events, or
maybe even getting a table at a local Italian festival, you'd find some
interested folks. Voila! A local group is born, and a quiet provincia (or at
least regio) is awakened.
OFS: I leave this to the more experienced cives such as yourself to
determine its effectiveness. Distribution though is definitely
not a problem. I have a Legata in mind that might be just
great at some of the more well-traveled aspects of
distribution as my canvassing availability tends to "spike"
alot depending on my job schedule.
Speaking strictly to the literature,
at this time, I have to honestly that it would qualify just as a start
at best. (No disrespect meant to anyone. The site tantalizingly alludes
to a tri-fold flyer coming soon, but alas it has yet to come. I know,
I know -he or she that volunteers.... :-)The Word version blew up in
Word 2k (quite probably my problem,) the RTF version loaded normally
though. Looks like a good starter template.
I'm further intrigued by your mention of 'pagan bookstores'
Will have to see if such an animal exists in the province.
Aeternia turned me on to an occult search engine which had
a lot of retail-oriented links, so that may be a place to start.
> Some of my ideas were to develop some 'Marketing Materials'
> that are of high quality and official looking to distribute
> to Universities and Community Colleges. (University
> Alumni associations representing one possible venue
> for this.) If this were to move forward, we would be willing
> to put some of our own money toward this endeavor.
> It would of course also have to be language 'localized'
> to really hit hard at the provincial level. Perhaps
> something that could be handled directly by the governor
> or Legatus.
I wholeheartedly agree. We need more materials for recruiting and getting
the word out. We did quite a bit of this early on (we actually had
multi-page introductory booklets printed up that we managed to sell quite a
few of at our first Roman Days in 1998).
OFS: Ah, a tantalizing prospect....do any copies of said books
still exist? Are there electronic versions? Can we scan the content
of the originals if not and make them available for leveraging
in future content? For the record, I *definitely* am not in favor
of reinventing the wheel. If anything is available from previous
similar ventures, let's harness it, embellish it and get the word out.
I think it is time to get this
aspect of our outreach geared up again. If I may, I believe the Sodalicum
Egressus is just the place to discuss these sorts of ideas.
OFS: Looks like I need to join another list :-)
> Additionally, there
> might be some ways to get information into some of the larger
> corporate entities; especially when we gain a full NFP status.
> Also, I'm in full favor of separate websites: One being the
> "Nova Roma Marketing/Informational site" and the other representing
> the "Intranet, or cive-only" site. The Marketing site should
> be geared completely toward attracting members; happy faces
> of people participating in gatherings, meetings, discussions,
> etc. The internal geared toward supporting us as cives.
> Possibly being password protected. This is just the start
> of an idea though and something that requires input from
> my fellow cives and some additional fleshing out at this
> end.
I must confess my gut tells me this would be a bad idea. But, I'm always
willing to entertain new ideas. Right now, the main web site is very much a
"working marketing site"; that is, there's much in there for potential cives
to see, including that information that those who are already citizens use.
I think it is a good thing for potential citizens to get a complete picture
of what life is like within our community; I get the sense you want to block
out certain parts of it. What parts, may I ask?
OFS: For clarification, I should state for the record here that
I'm in no way looking to be exclusionary. I fully agree that the breadth
and depth of the rich lifestyle that Nova Roma offers has to be
presented in an open, enticing and rich manner.
That being said, yes- I do favor having a 'cives-only' area for content.
This might include things such as senatorial debates, e-mail addresses
and chat handle databases, provincial discussions, etc. Namely, I'm
mostly interested in the protection of internal administrative data.
This would be standard policy in many organizations, where there
is an "internal web presence" and an "external" web presence.
In keeping with this theme, we do need to certainly show enough
externally to get qualified people interested in citizenship, but also
people
need to feel that there is something important and sacred about
there citizenship as well. Kind of a 'members-only' area that would
be found in many organization.
As you say, there may be some disagreement on this and as previously
mentioned, I certainly don't have all the answers. I still see merit
in making certain types of information to be cive-only, but if
others don't agree than am certainly happy enough to abide by that
and continue on with the other issues here. (Some of this may
also be addressed in my responses to the related posts, namely
that started by Bicurratus which I probably won't get to until
tomorrow morning.)
I follow the principal of the "Internet being just one channel
for conducting business," NR being the 'business' in this case.
> Am discussing some further ideas with Salonina this weekend.
> In the meantime, as perhaps a separate thread of discussion for
> all of us that are interested in propagating NR at the provincial
> level, we could possibly work on developing a compendium of ideas
> on attracting some solid and dedicated talent to NR. Some of this
> has been discussed before on the list, so I'd need to catch up
> on some of that as well.
Once again, I would point you to the Sodalicum Egressus. Sounds like they're
right up your alley! (For more information, the Senatus Consultum which
created them is at http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/sen00140601.htm and
they have an eGroups email list which you can find there if you just do a
search on "Egressus".
OFS: Thank you for the suggestion. I've applied to join the list as
of tonight and will await approval status. As far as the Consultum,
will have to queue it with my other reading (so much now! :-) but
will read the charter within the next few days.
I'll tell you, it's good to see someone so enthused to
get something going on in their province!
OFS: Thank you Consul Germanicus! Looking forward to making some things
happen.
(Or at least trying to.)
Vale,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul
email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
eGroups Sponsor
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Uncontested elections |
| From: |
Jeff Smith <JSmithCSA@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 6 Jan 2001 21:38:38 -0800 (PST) |
|
Salve!
--- Marcos Boehme <m_arminius@--------> wrote:
> And what about if we consider the tied Tribes and
> Centuries.
> We can consider a tied tribe as a "second class"
> vote, that we can use as
> a way to avoid a draw between candidates, or to have
> more magistracies
> filled. That is: if a candidate for Quastor (say,
> Centesimus Nullus) won 0 tribes, but a tribe (say,
> tribe XXXVI) have tied between him and another
> candidate (say, Millesimus Multiplus, wo won another
> tribe), and we have a position of Quaestor
> available, he can be declared a Quaestor elected,
> because he shares a first position in a tied tribe.
This option was discussed, but we felt it would be too
confusing. (The actual discussion, I think, had 1/2
votes, etc.) This may be the best of option, but keep
in mind that while it may reduce the number of ties,
it will not eliminate them. Theoretically, it could
even result in someone who does not carry a single
tribe or century being elected.
> But i confess that this proposal add more confuse
> situations. By the way, what if three candidates for
> Consul receives the same number of centuries in a
> election (yes, it can happen).
It can and did. We just elected three rogators (a
first-place winner and two tied second-place winners)
to fill two positions. I'm waiting with great
curiousity to see how, or if, this will be resolved.
Lucius Aetius Dalmaticus
=====
LTC JEFFREY C. SMITH
HQ USAREUR/7A
CMR 420, BOX 2839
APO AE 09063-2839
"It's what you learn after you know it all that counts." --Jean Rostand
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Local Groups - Germania (English and German) |
| From: |
Jeff Smith <JSmithCSA@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 6 Jan 2001 22:21:36 -0800 (PST) |
|
Sehr geehrter Caius Flavius!
> E: BTW, Luci Aeti Dalmatice, what about your
> knowledge of German?
> D:
> Übrigens, Luci Aeti Dalmatice, wie sieht es mit
> Deinen Deutschkenntnissen aus?
E: Poor! But better than my Latin! Perhaps if the
people of Germania are patient with me, I can
communicate in German...I just need practice.
D: Schlecht! Aber mein Deutsch ist besser als mein
Latein! Wenn die guten Leute von Germania mit mir
geduldig sind, kann ich können, auf Deutsch in
Verbindung zu stehen. Ich benötige nur Praxis (und ich
bin auch langsam).
Lucius Aetius Dalmaticus
=====
LTC JEFFREY C. SMITH
HQ USAREUR/7A
CMR 420, BOX 2839
APO AE 09063-2839
"It's what you learn after you know it all that counts." --Jean Rostand
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Fwd: Lets make her multi-lingual |
| From: |
razenna@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 07 Jan 2001 07:12:43 -0000 |
|
I just tried this out using the novaroma.de site. The translation of
the German to English is better than nothing, but it might not be up
to some people's standards. Thank you for this site link. I'm going
to put near the top of my bookmarks list.
Bene valete omn.
C. Aelius Ericius.
--- In novaroma@--------, StarVVreck@a... wrote:
> I sent this email recently to the novaroma.org webmaster.
>
> In a message dated 1/6/01 11:20:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,
StarVVreck
> writes:
>
> << Subj: Lets make her multi-lingual
> Date: 1/6/01 11:20:51 PM Eastern Standard Time
> From: StarVVreck
> To: webmaster@--------
>
> Salve,
>
> I recently read several emails on the Nova Roma main-list about
how our
> website should accomidate all languages that Nova Roma citizens and
possible
> Nova Roma citizens speak. (A German brought it up and someone had
to
> translate his email for the rest of us). I found a free "instant"
> translation service that can translate the website 1 page at a time.
We
> could use it to translate the Nova Roma website into French, German,
Italian,
> Portugese, and Spanish. The translation service is at:
> http://www.profitinternational.com/translate/
> Once there just type in the nova roma URL and click "Translate".
You'll be
> amazed at how accurate the service is (not quite perfect). I would
also love
> to help you in implementing the translations onto the website.
>
> Vale,
>
> Iulius Titinius Antonius >>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Local Groups - Germania (English and German) |
| From: |
Lucilla Cornelia Cinna <CorneliaLucilla@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 07 Jan 2001 10:40:11 +0100 |
|
L. Aetio Dalmatico Lucilla Cinna salutem
joining the Germania list should be a good way to start practicing. I
learned most of my English from English typing discussion lists (who had
to be _very patient_ with me at first), and now my English is better
than my Latin (I assume it's because I had no time to join a Latin
discussion list so far).
And don't worry, we will be patient!
/
Es duerfte ein guter Weg, sein Deutsch aktiv zu benutzen, die
Germania-Liste zu abonnieren. Ich habe einen Grossteil meines Englisch
in englischsprachigen Diskussionslisten gelernt (die anfangs mir
gegenüber _sehr viel Geduld_ aufbringen mussten), und mittlerweile ist
mein Englisch beser als mein Latein (Ich vermute, weil ich bislang keine
Zeit hatte, eine lateinische Diskussionsliste zu abonnieren).
Und keine Sorge, wir werden Geduld haben!
/
As long as it's written German, there's some pretty good dictionaries. I
use the Langenscheidt dictionaries named "Grosses Schulwoerterbuch"
which has most of the phrases as well. It consists of 2 vol.s:
German-English / English-German.
When I meet people with who I can only communicate in English - and I
usually don't have a distionary handy then - I use my hands and feet,
and it works. ;o) And by the way, it's always a good laugh.
/
Was Schriftdeutsch betrifft, gibt es ein paar gute Lexika. Ich benutze
die Langenscheidt-Lexika aus der Serie "Grosses Schulwoerterbuch", das
auch die meisten Redewendungen umfasst.
Wenn ich Leute treffe, mit denen ich nur auf Englisch kommunizieren kann
- üblicherweise habe ich dann kein Lexikon zur Hand -, behelfe ich mich
mit Haenden und Fuessen, und das funktioniert auch; es gibt dann
jedenfalls immer viel zu lachen.
/
Ave atque vale
Lucilla Cinna
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
The Quality of my English (Re: [novaroma] Digest Number 1158) |
| From: |
"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 7 Jan 2001 12:59:13 +0100 |
|
Salve Quaestor Audens!
> Your use of the word "whelp," is, in my opinion, neither necessary nor
> apprpriate in this institution. By so naming yourself and by
> association others of your age-group you dishonor the whole, in my view.
> I have steadfastly indicated my admiration of your accomplishments, and
> I do not believe I have earned that type of response.
My apologies, I didn't know the word "whelp" had a negative connotation in
English, as I'm not a native English speaker. It was certainly not meant to
dishonour myself, my 'peer group', and certainly not you!
> We disagree on a point of law, on my side some years of experience in
> dealing with a large variety of young people and thier unfortunate
> apptitude for undesirable actions / decisions---on your side, the
> self-assurance that you and others of your age-group can do as good a
> job or better than some who are of age and now hold Magisterial offices.
I didn't say this. I certainly don't believe offices like Quaestor, Praetor,
Consul, Censor or Tribunus Plebis should be open for youths. They require
some experience in one or more fields that 99% of the youths here will not
have. I was rather talking about lower magistracies that don't get filled
easily and are impopular and/or passive. Last year one position for Aedilis
Plebis was vacant, the interest for Rogator was on the low side, and only
one of the Aediles Curules was fairly active.
> We have discussed this situation, between ourselves and my question to
> you is still the same. How do you choose which are the mature,
> intelligent and active persons and who are not.
My point on this might hold some naivity, but I think that the people will
be wise enough not to elect someone who is childish and unintelligent. Also,
most inactive citizens won't stand for office. Of course, the problem may
arise when a possibly immature candidate is the *only* candidate. I have to
admit that I haven't thought of any solution for this problem.
> Additionally, the law
> as I have indicated on several occasions was passed for good reason, and
> did provide a way for "specially gifted young people" to stand for the
> positions, normally restricted because of age. Now, it appears that
> chance is not good enough because it is not easy enough. However, in my
> view, if the law is to be meaningful, getting around the law easily is
> senseless as long as the law is seen as necessary by the Citizens of
> Nova Roma, which I am firmly convinced that it is.
>
> In closing, I do not consider you or any young person a "whelp" but, I
> do consider such naming of yourself and others of similar age on this
> list to be inappropriate, crude and inaccurate.
Once again, forgive me my use of language. I shall try in Dutch next time
;-).
Vale bene,
Sextus Apollonius Draco, civis Novae Romae
Legatus Galliae Borealis,
Procurator Galliae,
Scriba Aedilis Plebis
Vainqueur, ICQ# 32924725
--**--
Novaromain? Parlez-vous français? Cliquez ici!:
http://www.egroups.com/group/NRGallia_GalliaBelgicaF
Nieuwromein? Spreekt u Nederlands? Klik hier!:
http://www.egroups.com/group/NRGallia_BelgicaBataviaD
Novaroman? Interested in philosophy? Click here!:
http://www.egroups.com/group/NR_Philosophy
Novaroman? Interested in politics? Click here!:
http://www.egroups.com/group/NR_DignitasForum
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] help with Zosimus........ |
| From: |
"Daniel Place" <Danat2000@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 7 Jan 2001 22:57:13 +1030 |
|
Salve,
I'm in a bit of a bind here and was wondering if anyone here can help me. Is there an internet copy of the Late Roman historian Zosimus' book "New History" online? I've been told that the book itself is now out of print by a publisher so I was wondering if perhaps there was a copy on the web. Any help would be much appreciated.
Vale
Marcus Arcadius Pius
Pontiff
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Test |
| From: |
"pjane@-------- " <pjane@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 07 Jan 2001 13:14:35 -0000 |
|
> Guten Tag! Your signal is fine. I think, though, that advertising
> belongs in a different region of novaroma...Cassia? Would you be
> able to direct Herr Schaefer to the proper location?
I am no longer the Curatrix Sermonem (list moderator), but it is my
belief that a signature file of no more than four lines is acceptable
as "low-key" advertising. Priscilla Vedia Serena
(justicecmo@--------) would be the appropriate person to make
this decision, since the list is now her responsibility.
P. Cassia
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] On youth and public service |
| From: |
BICURRATUS@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 7 Jan 2001 08:31:48 EST |
|
EX DOMO PUBLII CLAUDII LUCENTII SEVERI BICURRATI
They may be at full liberty to vote but, in the UK at least, they aren't
allowed to enter themselves in an election until they are 21.
And there's no leeway to allow them to keep an elected position if they do
enter an election and win. You are totally barred from office even if you
miss being 21 by 1 day!
Keep what we've got.
Bicurratus
> I must say, Germanicus, that your examples are a bit generalised. Out here in
> Australia, a person is considered an adult upon turning 18, where they are
> at
> full liberty to drink, vote and drive (not at the same time, of course ;-)
> ).
>
> I beleive that once a person enters adulthood (in the region or country
> they are
> living in) that they should be able to run for magistracies. After all,
> there
> are many among the youth of Nova Roma who not only vote, but pay, taxes,
> have a
> job, etc. Is that not responsibility?
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] help with Zosimus........ |
| From: |
Marcus Papirius Justus <papirius@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 07 Jan 2001 08:42:54 -0500 |
|
Salve,
Book VI is available in translation at:
http://www.medrawt.sux.com/history/primary/zosimus-bk6.html
or at (with notes):
http://www.medrawt.sux.com/inc/history/zos6-10.html
Another bit at:
http://campus.northpark.edu/history//Classes/Sources/Zosimus.html
... that's all I've got written down.
At 10:57 PM 07/01/2001 +1030, you wrote:
>Salve,
>
>I'm in a bit of a bind here and was wondering if anyone here can help me.
>Is there an internet copy of the Late Roman historian Zosimus' book "New
>History" online? I've been told that the book itself is now out of print
>by a publisher so I was wondering if perhaps there was a copy on the web.
>Any help would be much appreciated.
>
>Vale
>
>Marcus Arcadius Pius
>Pontiff
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] help with Zosimus........ |
| From: |
"Daniel Place" <Danat2000@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 8 Jan 2001 00:15:26 +1030 |
|
Salve,
My heartfelt thanks!! BTW do you know if anyone at all still publishes the
New History?
Vale,
Marcus Arcadius Pius
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Television Show - Roman War Machine |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 07 Jan 2001 04:56:35 -0800 |
|
Will be on the History Channel International tonight.
It is 4 hours long. From 8pm - Midnight California time. Just wanted
to let everyone know.
Part 1 - 5-6 pm is about Called First our Neighbors, then the World:
Story of the first professional army, when early Rome discards Etruscans
domination and creates a Republic
Part 2 - 6-7 pm is called Roman vs Roman, The Roman army becomes
embroiled in a civil war just as Julius Caesar plans to invade
Britannia.
Part 3 - 7-8 pm is called Roman Siege Warfare, How advanced siege
warfare helped Rome win and sustain control of its empire.
part 4 - 8-9 m, is called Barbarians at the Gate, The Roman army
reconstructed new territories by the second century and built its own
defenses, some of which lasted for 2,000 years.
The series is immediately repeated from 9 pm till 1 am.
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] help with Zosimus........ |
| From: |
Michel Loos <loos@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 07 Jan 2001 14:08:03 -0200 |
|
Daniel Place wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> I'm in a bit of a bind here and was wondering if anyone here can help me. Is there an internet copy of the Late Roman historian Zosimus' book "New History" online? I've been told that the book itself is now out of print by a publisher so I was wondering if perhaps there was a copy on the web. Any help would be much appreciated.
>
> Vale
>
> Marcus Arcadius Pius
> Pontiff
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ave,
Les belles Lettres (collection Bude) still edit it (bilingual)
see: http://www.lesbelleslettres.com
M' Villius Limitanus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Television Show - Roman War Machine |
| From: |
Ira Adams <iadams@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 7 Jan 2001 11:34:06 -0600 |
|
Maybe somebody could tape it? For those of us who don't get cable?
LSAO
On 1/7/01 6:56 AM Lucius Cornelius Sulla (alexious@--------) wrote:
>Will be on the History Channel International tonight.
>
>It is 4 hours long. From 8pm - Midnight California time. Just wanted
>to let everyone know.
>
>Part 1 - 5-6 pm is about Called First our Neighbors, then the World:
>Story of the first professional army, when early Rome discards Etruscans
>domination and creates a Republic
>
>Part 2 - 6-7 pm is called Roman vs Roman, The Roman army becomes
>embroiled in a civil war just as Julius Caesar plans to invade
>Britannia.
>
>Part 3 - 7-8 pm is called Roman Siege Warfare, How advanced siege
>warfare helped Rome win and sustain control of its empire.
>
>part 4 - 8-9 m, is called Barbarians at the Gate, The Roman army
>reconstructed new territories by the second century and built its own
>defenses, some of which lasted for 2,000 years.
>
>The series is immediately repeated from 9 pm till 1 am.
>
>Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>
|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] Television Show - Roman War Machine |
| From: |
"Oppius Flaccus" <oppiusflaccus@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 7 Jan 2001 10:14:51 -0800 |
|
Salve,
I have this series on tape already. If anyone is
interested, they may e-mail me privately and
we can make arrangements. We can look at doing
a straight ship out and ship back for the tapes,
or perhaps a loaner tape exchange. (Continental
US)
Vale bene,
-Oppius
-----Original Message-----
From: Ira Adams [mailto:iadams@--------]
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 9:34 AM
To: Nova Roma
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Television Show - Roman War Machine
Maybe somebody could tape it? For those of us who don't get cable?
LSAO
On 1/7/01 6:56 AM Lucius Cornelius Sulla (alexious@--------) wrote:
>Will be on the History Channel International tonight.
>
>It is 4 hours long. From 8pm - Midnight California time. Just wanted
>to let everyone know.
>
>Part 1 - 5-6 pm is about Called First our Neighbors, then the World:
>Story of the first professional army, when early Rome discards Etruscans
>domination and creates a Republic
>
>Part 2 - 6-7 pm is called Roman vs Roman, The Roman army becomes
>embroiled in a civil war just as Julius Caesar plans to invade
>Britannia.
>
>Part 3 - 7-8 pm is called Roman Siege Warfare, How advanced siege
>warfare helped Rome win and sustain control of its empire.
>
>part 4 - 8-9 m, is called Barbarians at the Gate, The Roman army
>reconstructed new territories by the second century and built its own
>defenses, some of which lasted for 2,000 years.
>
>The series is immediately repeated from 9 pm till 1 am.
>
>Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>
eGroups Sponsor
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] The office as quaestor |
| From: |
zero_--_@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 7 Jan 2001 14:19:47 -0500 (EST) |
|
so how does one become a citzen one Novaroma
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Age-Laws Change |
| From: |
Fortunatus <labienus@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 07 Jan 2001 15:16:20 -0600 |
|
Salvete
> When the announcement to declare candidacy is made, the underage
> applicants should immediately appeal to the Senate to permit them to
> run and if elected, serve. It wouldn't be hard to hold a division,
> so the Senators could vote on it before the week is out.
Personally, I'd advise contacting the Senate as early as possible.
While the Senate's procedures only require one week for a division to be
taken, a consul must call the Senate to order and place the candidate's
waiver on the agenda. This can take substantially longer than a week.
Last year was a particularly busy one for the Senate, thanks to consules
Fabius and Minucius, with roughly one Senate call per month. S
Apollonius requested an exemption from the Senate at the very beginning
of Decemnber, and we were unable to vote upon that request until after
the elections were over.
Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus
|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] Uncontested elections |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 7 Jan 2001 17:13:09 -0500 |
|
Salvete!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Smith [mailto:JSmithCSA@--------]
> Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 12:32 AM
>
> > Actually, this is untrue. A careful reading of the laws governing the
> > workings of the comitiae does in fact reveal that once the comitia is
> > officially called to the vote by the appropriate magistrate, no new
> > candidates are allowed to be considered.
>
> Which law? I went to the website and read the laws
> there that applied, and can't find it.
There are three laws that govern the conduct of elections and voting in the
comitia, and they all say pretty much the same thing (with minor variations
according to which comitia is being discussed). To take the Lex Vedia de
Ratione Comitiorum Populi Tributorum (which deals with voting in the Comitia
Populi) as an example, the voting opens when "The presiding magistrate ...
shall... convene the comitia and publish one or more of the following, along
with the deadline by which voting must be completed ... In the case of a
magisterial election, the names of the candidates and the offices for which
they stand."
Thus, the names of the candidates have to be known in toto at the beginning
of the election. Anyone whose name isn't published at the beginning of the
election isn't a part of that particular election.
Hope that helps!
Valete,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul
email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Ties in votes (was RE: Uncontested elections) |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 7 Jan 2001 18:42:29 -0500 |
|
Salve;
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marcos Boehme [mailto:m_arminius@--------]
> Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 1:16 PM
>
> But i confess that this proposal add more confuse situations. By
> the way, what if three candidates for Consul receives the same
> number of centuries in a election (yes, it can happen).
An excellent point, and as Lucius Aetius Dalmaticus pointed out this
happened with the rogatores in our last election (one won a clear
first-place, and two others tied for second).
I think the answer to this problem (and this is also the historical way that
the "senior" and "junior" magsitrates were decided, if I am not mistaken)
could be to re-establish the institution of the principium and the centuria
praerogativa.
The basic principal is that the tribes and centuries vote successively; one
is chosen at random to go first, and then the rest are counted in numeric
order thereafter. For example, if century 47 were chosen as the centuria
praerogativa, its votes would be counted first, and then those of century
48, 49, 50, and so forth. It would work the same way for tribes, with the
first tribe voting being called the principium. (Once century 193 is
counted, the counting "wraps around" and continues with century 1; same with
the tribes.)
How does this solve the problem of ties in the number of centuries or tribes
voting for a candidate? Simple. The one who gains his tribes first, wins.
This solution is not only historical, but it is also fair, as the random
nature of which century/tribe votes first could work to the benefit of
either candidate in a tie equally. Any thoughts?
Valete,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul
email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
|
