Forum Romanum


Subject:	[novaroma] Salutem Novae Civites Nova Roma
From:	"Pompeia Cornelia" <scriba_forum@-------->
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 00:41:31 -0000

Salvete Omnes:

I wish to extend a welcome to the new civites of Nova Roma from the gentes
Fabia, Moravia, Drusilla, Sertoria et Papiria. Warm greetings!

It is good to have you a part of the republic.

If I can be of assistance to you here in Nova Roma, please do not hesitate
to contact me.

Bene valete
Pompeia Cornelia Strabo
Propraetrix, Canada Orientalis
Nova Roma

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Hello
From:	"Oppius Flaccus" <oppiusflaccus@-------->
Date:	Mon, 15 Jan 2001 16:49:26 -0800

Salve Marcus Drusillus and welcome!

You don't seem to be perpetrating any faux pas at all. (Certainly
no more than any of the rest of us :-)

It's great to have you here and you're part of a great province.
Nova Roma is a great place to live and hopefully you will find
it to be everything you had hoped for and more.

Vale bene,
-Oppius

-----Original Message-----
From: allan001@-------- [mailto:allan001@--------]
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 5:37 AM
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: [novaroma] Hello

Hello

I'm kinda new. i just got admitted as a itizen and im happy to be
here. I am a resident of Canada Orientalis and my name is
Marcus Drusillus Scaevola. Just wanted to drop a note saying hi to
everyone.

P.S. im just new at this so i apologize in advance for any faux paus
i might have perpatrated

--
9 out of 10 doctors say the 10th doctor should mellow out.

eGroups Sponsor

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Big Provincia!
From:	LucillaCornelia@--------
Date:	Mon, 15 Jan 2001 20:10:46 -0500

Ya' just gotta love a guy with a Big Provincia . . . heh heh heh.

novaroma@-------- wrote:
>
> That's one huge province!!!
>
> Lucius Aetius Dalmaticus
>
> --- Quintus Sertorius <quintus-sertorius@-------->
> wrote:
> > 11 Jan 2001
> >
> > Salve All
> >
> > Has anyone look at the map on the wedsite for the
> > Provincias in North America?... Have you noticed how
> > Canada Occidentalis is almost as big as everyone
> > else combined!!! heh heh..
> >
> > Quintus Sertorius
> > Propraetor
> > Canada Occidentalis
> > quintus-sertorius@--------
> >
> > Join the egroup for Canada Occidentalis
> > http://www.egroups.com/group/NR_CanOcc
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> LTC JEFFREY C. SMITH
> HQ USAREUR/7A
> CMR 420, BOX 2839
> APO AE 09063-2839
>
> "It's what you learn after you know it all that counts." --Jean Rostand
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
--
Lucilla Prima Cornelia Fortunata
__________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/


Subject:	[novaroma] Canada Orientalis: Prov. Edictum IV
From:	"Pompeia Cornelia" <scriba_forum@-------->
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 01:42:53 -0000

15 Jan. 2754 AUC

CANADA ORIENTALIS - NOVA ROMA

PROVINCIA EDICTUM IV

APPOINTMENT OF A LEGATUS

I hereby appoint as Legatus for the Region of NOVA GALLIA, Canada Orientalis
Provincia, Marcus Cornelius Scriptor, Pontiff Nova Roma.

In the service of the res Publica:

Pompeia Cornelia Strabo
Propraetrix, Canada Orientalis
Nova Roma
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Local Groups
From:	SyanneRose@--------
Date:	Mon, 15 Jan 2001 20:54:02 EST

Salve Lucius Sicinius Drusus,

Yay!!!!!!! I thought I was the only one of our Provincia who was a regular
poster. Very glad to meet you. Perhaps we could suggest our input to our
Governor? Just an idea.

Bene Vale,
Aeternia


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Local Groups
From:	SyanneRose@--------
Date:	Mon, 15 Jan 2001 20:54:02 EST


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Last Call for Candidates
From:	gmvick32@--------
Date:	Mon, 15 Jan 2001 19:13:22 -0700

Sure, if you were aware a) that a Senatus Consultum had been issued, b) that it was
in the Tabularium, and c) that it was going to be on the ballot.

The onus is not on the individual to figure out, by prescience, what they will be
voting on.

Livia

Lucius Cornelius Sulla wrote:

> The Lex Fabia was available in the Tabularium once the Senate voted a Senatus
> Consultum. All you needed to do was to check the Tabularium.
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> Censor of Nova Roma
>
> gmvick32@-------- wrote:
>
> > I don't see how this is any different, and perhaps more liberal, than standard
> > election operation procedure. We certainly never saw the Lex Fabia that was
> > voted on for debate prior to the December election.
> >
> > Livia
> >
> > Marcus Octavius Germanicus wrote:
> >
> > > Salvete Tribunes,
> > >
> > > > Plebiscita to be brought before the Comitia Plebis Tributa shall be
> > > > posted to the Comitia on Thursday 18 January at
> > > >
> > > > Voting in the tribes shall begin on the candidates for Aedilis Plebis
> > > > and on all plebiscita on Saturday 20 January at 00:01 Roma (6:01 PM EDST)
> > >
> > > You're leaving less than two days between posting of the proposals
> > > and the start of voting? And posting the proposals to a sparsely-populated
> > > satellite list instead of the main mailing list?
> > >
> > > This looks very much like you're trying to get something pushed through
> > > the Comitia with as much secrecy as possible.
> > >
> > > Why not post them here, now, for open debate?
> > >
> > > Valete, Octavius.
> > >
> > > --
> > > M. Octavius Germanicus
> > > Propraetor, Lacus Magni
> > > Curator Araneae et Senator


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Canada Orientalis: Prov. Edictum IV
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Mon, 15 Jan 2001 18:03:39 -0800

Congrats M. Cornelius Scriptor on your appointment. I am very pleased!!! :)

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Paterfamilias of the Gens Cornelia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pompeia Cornelia" <scriba_forum@-------->
To: <NovaRoma@-------->; <Canada_Orientalis_NR@-------->
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 5:42 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Canada Orientalis: Prov. Edictum IV

> 15 Jan. 2754 AUC
>
> CANADA ORIENTALIS - NOVA ROMA
>
> PROVINCIA EDICTUM IV
>
> APPOINTMENT OF A LEGATUS
>
> I hereby appoint as Legatus for the Region of NOVA GALLIA, Canada
Orientalis
> Provincia, Marcus Cornelius Scriptor, Pontiff Nova Roma.
>
> In the service of the res Publica:
>
> Pompeia Cornelia Strabo
> Propraetrix, Canada Orientalis
> Nova Roma
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
>
>
>
>
>


Subject:	[novaroma] Announcement
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Mon, 15 Jan 2001 18:23:43 -0800

Ave Quirites!

With the upcoming summoning of the Comitia Plebis, I would like to announce that the revisions of the Tribes have been completed. As per the Constitution of Nova Roma this is the only time this year that the changes will be noted. This was due to the excellent work of Senator M. Octavius Germancius.

As per the Centuries, there currently has been no revision of Century points or Century allocations. This will be completed later this year.

Please go to the Album Civium and check your new status. If you have any questions please feel free to contact myself at alexious@-------- or censors@novaroma.org.

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor of Nova Roma

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Last Call for Candidates
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Mon, 15 Jan 2001 18:26:44 -0800

Ave

Well the Tribunes of the Plebs have announced every time the Senate has been
summoned. And they have announced the voting results when they were
completed. Once the Tribs of the Plebs announce them...M. Octavius has been
very punctual about posting them on the Tabularium.

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor
----- Original Message -----
From: <gmvick32@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 6:13 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Last Call for Candidates

> Sure, if you were aware a) that a Senatus Consultum had been issued, b)
that it was
> in the Tabularium, and c) that it was going to be on the ballot.
>
> The onus is not on the individual to figure out, by prescience, what they
will be
> voting on.
>
> Livia
>
>
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla wrote:
>
> > The Lex Fabia was available in the Tabularium once the Senate voted a
Senatus
> > Consultum. All you needed to do was to check the Tabularium.
> >
> > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> > Censor of Nova Roma
> >
> > gmvick32@-------- wrote:
> >
> > > I don't see how this is any different, and perhaps more liberal, than
standard
> > > election operation procedure. We certainly never saw the Lex Fabia
that was
> > > voted on for debate prior to the December election.
> > >
> > > Livia
> > >
> > > Marcus Octavius Germanicus wrote:
> > >
> > > > Salvete Tribunes,
> > > >
> > > > > Plebiscita to be brought before the Comitia Plebis Tributa
shall be
> > > > > posted to the Comitia on Thursday 18 January at
> > > > >
> > > > > Voting in the tribes shall begin on the candidates for
Aedilis Plebis
> > > > > and on all plebiscita on Saturday 20 January at 00:01 Roma (6:01
PM EDST)
> > > >
> > > > You're leaving less than two days between posting of the proposals
> > > > and the start of voting? And posting the proposals to a
sparsely-populated
> > > > satellite list instead of the main mailing list?
> > > >
> > > > This looks very much like you're trying to get something pushed
through
> > > > the Comitia with as much secrecy as possible.
> > > >
> > > > Why not post them here, now, for open debate?
> > > >
> > > > Valete, Octavius.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > M. Octavius Germanicus
> > > > Propraetor, Lacus Magni
> > > > Curator Araneae et Senator
>
>
>
>
>


Subject:	[novaroma] Citizens
From:	"Lucius Equitius" <vze23hw7@-------->
Date:	Mon, 15 Jan 2001 21:57:41 -0500

Salvete, Quirites

Having just approved new gens members to Gens Constantinia, Nova Roma has reached 700 cives!

This is great progress that can only be made better by increased involvement of those Paterfamilia et Materfamilia who have prospective gens members awaiting approval.

Bene omnibus nobis
Valete, Censor Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[novaroma] Gens Constantinia, a greeting and an introduction
From:	Domitius Constantinus Fuscus <flyke@-------->
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 04:15:46 +0100

Salvete

I seize the chance given by the last post of the Censor to greet everyone
on the behalf of my gens.

Quite amazingly, founded months ago, gens Constantinia passed from 1 to 6
and a half (for one member is pending the approval of his parents) in a
matter of 15 days... which creates a bit of problems on the internal
organization but that, quite incredibly, makes us one of the largest
plebeian gentes.

After a time of internal organization, I do hope my gens will be able to
partecipate actively to the life of the res publica and bring in its own
contributions.

Is with pleasure that I therefore introduce to you teh other members of my gens

Publius Constantinus Lucius
Publius Constantinus Costantinus (still pending approval by the censor)
Gaius Constantinus Fuscus
Maximus Constantinus Decimo Meridio
Lucius Constantinus Enobardo (pending approval of his parents and the censors)
Sempronia Constantinia Silla

valete

Domitius Constantinus Fuscus


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Last Call for Candidates
From:	gmvick32@--------
Date:	Mon, 15 Jan 2001 20:32:57 -0700

Sorry, I don't make the logical leap from those events to the election process.

Proof of my hopeless stupidity, no doubt.

Livia

"L. Cornelius Sulla" wrote:

> Ave
>
> Well the Tribunes of the Plebs have announced every time the Senate has been
> summoned. And they have announced the voting results when they were
> completed. Once the Tribs of the Plebs announce them...M. Octavius has been
> very punctual about posting them on the Tabularium.
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> Censor
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <gmvick32@-------->
> To: <novaroma@-------->
> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 6:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [novaroma] Last Call for Candidates
>
> > Sure, if you were aware a) that a Senatus Consultum had been issued, b)
> that it was
> > in the Tabularium, and c) that it was going to be on the ballot.
> >
> > The onus is not on the individual to figure out, by prescience, what they
> will be
> > voting on.
> >
> > Livia
> >
> >
> >
> > Lucius Cornelius Sulla wrote:
> >
> > > The Lex Fabia was available in the Tabularium once the Senate voted a
> Senatus
> > > Consultum. All you needed to do was to check the Tabularium.
> > >
> > > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> > > Censor of Nova Roma
> > >
> > > gmvick32@-------- wrote:
> > >
> > > > I don't see how this is any different, and perhaps more liberal, than
> standard
> > > > election operation procedure. We certainly never saw the Lex Fabia
> that was
> > > > voted on for debate prior to the December election.
> > > >
> > > > Livia
> > > >
> > > > Marcus Octavius Germanicus wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Salvete Tribunes,
> > > > >
> > > > > > Plebiscita to be brought before the Comitia Plebis Tributa
> shall be
> > > > > > posted to the Comitia on Thursday 18 January at
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Voting in the tribes shall begin on the candidates for
> Aedilis Plebis
> > > > > > and on all plebiscita on Saturday 20 January at 00:01 Roma (6:01
> PM EDST)
> > > > >
> > > > > You're leaving less than two days between posting of the proposals
> > > > > and the start of voting? And posting the proposals to a
> sparsely-populated
> > > > > satellite list instead of the main mailing list?
> > > > >
> > > > > This looks very much like you're trying to get something pushed
> through
> > > > > the Comitia with as much secrecy as possible.
> > > > >
> > > > > Why not post them here, now, for open debate?
> > > > >
> > > > > Valete, Octavius.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > M. Octavius Germanicus
> > > > > Propraetor, Lacus Magni
> > > > > Curator Araneae et Senator
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Local Groups
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <drusus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 03:35:47 -0000

Salve Aeternia,

I have written our our Propraetor and offered my services, and recived
no reply.

The Provincial web site shows no sign of having been updated in a long
time. I haven't seen any edictia for the American Austrorientlis
Provincia, and most disrurbing of all the Propraetor has been assigned
to an urban tribe for the last two years, showing she failed to even
vote. I fear that a provincia with 49 citizens lacks an active
governor.

Vale
Lucius Sicinius Drusus

--- In novaroma@--------, SyanneRose@c... wrote:
> Salve Lucius Sicinius Drusus,
>
>
> Yay!!!!!!! I thought I was the only one of our Provincia who was a
regular
> poster. Very glad to meet you. Perhaps we could suggest our input to
our
> Governor? Just an idea.
>
>
> Bene Vale,
> Aeternia


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Last Call for Candidates
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Mon, 15 Jan 2001 19:45:26 -0800

Ave

Well the www.novaroma.org/main.html it lists Tabularium and underneath it it
has Laws and Edicts. Maybe Senator M. Octavius can make some improvement to
on tinclude more information here. But, I personally have an habit to make
certain there are updates to the Senatus Consultum site and when Leges are
passed I make sure they are listed as well as Edicts. Its a site I have
bookmarked. Citizens should be very proactive when it comes to checking the
laws that govern our micronation.

Also, let me state to you, publically that I have never called you stupid.
This type of hyperbole is not proper for one who was appointed a Governor of
a very important province and more importantly. I do not have stupid people
in the Gens Cornelia!!

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

----- Original Message -----
From: <gmvick32@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 7:32 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Last Call for Candidates

> Sorry, I don't make the logical leap from those events to the election
process.
>
> Proof of my hopeless stupidity, no doubt.
>
> Livia
>
>
> "L. Cornelius Sulla" wrote:
>
> > Ave
> >
> > Well the Tribunes of the Plebs have announced every time the Senate has
been
> > summoned. And they have announced the voting results when they were
> > completed. Once the Tribs of the Plebs announce them...M. Octavius has
been
> > very punctual about posting them on the Tabularium.
> >
> > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> > Censor
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <gmvick32@-------->
> > To: <novaroma@-------->
> > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 6:13 PM
> > Subject: Re: [novaroma] Last Call for Candidates
> >
> > > Sure, if you were aware a) that a Senatus Consultum had been issued,
b)
> > that it was
> > > in the Tabularium, and c) that it was going to be on the ballot.
> > >
> > > The onus is not on the individual to figure out, by prescience, what
they
> > will be
> > > voting on.
> > >
> > > Livia
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Lucius Cornelius Sulla wrote:
> > >
> > > > The Lex Fabia was available in the Tabularium once the Senate voted
a
> > Senatus
> > > > Consultum. All you needed to do was to check the Tabularium.
> > > >
> > > > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> > > > Censor of Nova Roma
> > > >
> > > > gmvick32@-------- wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I don't see how this is any different, and perhaps more liberal,
than
> > standard
> > > > > election operation procedure. We certainly never saw the Lex
Fabia
> > that was
> > > > > voted on for debate prior to the December election.
> > > > >
> > > > > Livia
> > > > >
> > > > > Marcus Octavius Germanicus wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Salvete Tribunes,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Plebiscita to be brought before the Comitia Plebis
Tributa
> > shall be
> > > > > > > posted to the Comitia on Thursday 18 January at
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Voting in the tribes shall begin on the candidates for
> > Aedilis Plebis
> > > > > > > and on all plebiscita on Saturday 20 January at 00:01 Roma
(6:01
> > PM EDST)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You're leaving less than two days between posting of the
proposals
> > > > > > and the start of voting? And posting the proposals to a
> > sparsely-populated
> > > > > > satellite list instead of the main mailing list?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This looks very much like you're trying to get something pushed
> > through
> > > > > > the Comitia with as much secrecy as possible.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Why not post them here, now, for open debate?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Valete, Octavius.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > M. Octavius Germanicus
> > > > > > Propraetor, Lacus Magni
> > > > > > Curator Araneae et Senator
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Last Call for Candidates
From:	gmvick32@--------
Date:	Mon, 15 Jan 2001 21:21:46 -0700

We're talking about POSTING potential laws PRIOR to ELECTIONS by COMITIA.
Here's a question. If a Senatus Consultum isn't a law (didn't we have this
discussion before?) then why is a Senatus Consultum being posted in the Laws
section of the Tabularium after having been passed by the Senate (which doesn't
issue laws, remember?)

...and why is said posting of a Senatus Consultum, potentially months in advance
of an election, being considered acceptable substitute for posting notice that
the Senatus Consultum is to be floated as an item for VOTE by the COMITIA
immediately prior to the election?

Are we to consider that every Senatus Consultum is going to end up as an item
for vote by the Comitia?? If so, aren't we dreadfully behind in the elections?

Livia

"L. Cornelius Sulla" wrote:

> Ave
>
> Well the www.novaroma.org/main.html it lists Tabularium and underneath it it
> has Laws and Edicts. Maybe Senator M. Octavius can make some improvement to
> on tinclude more information here. But, I personally have an habit to make
> certain there are updates to the Senatus Consultum site and when Leges are
> passed I make sure they are listed as well as Edicts. Its a site I have
> bookmarked. Citizens should be very proactive when it comes to checking the
> laws that govern our micronation.
>
> Also, let me state to you, publically that I have never called you stupid.
> This type of hyperbole is not proper for one who was appointed a Governor of
> a very important province and more importantly. I do not have stupid people
> in the Gens Cornelia!!
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <gmvick32@-------->
> To: <novaroma@-------->
> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 7:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [novaroma] Last Call for Candidates
>
> > Sorry, I don't make the logical leap from those events to the election
> process.
> >
> > Proof of my hopeless stupidity, no doubt.
> >
> > Livia
> >
> >
> > "L. Cornelius Sulla" wrote:
> >
> > > Ave
> > >
> > > Well the Tribunes of the Plebs have announced every time the Senate has
> been
> > > summoned. And they have announced the voting results when they were
> > > completed. Once the Tribs of the Plebs announce them...M. Octavius has
> been
> > > very punctual about posting them on the Tabularium.
> > >
> > > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> > > Censor
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <gmvick32@-------->
> > > To: <novaroma@-------->
> > > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 6:13 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [novaroma] Last Call for Candidates
> > >
> > > > Sure, if you were aware a) that a Senatus Consultum had been issued,
> b)
> > > that it was
> > > > in the Tabularium, and c) that it was going to be on the ballot.
> > > >
> > > > The onus is not on the individual to figure out, by prescience, what
> they
> > > will be
> > > > voting on.
> > > >
> > > > Livia
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Lucius Cornelius Sulla wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > The Lex Fabia was available in the Tabularium once the Senate voted
> a
> > > Senatus
> > > > > Consultum. All you needed to do was to check the Tabularium.
> > > > >
> > > > > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> > > > > Censor of Nova Roma
> > > > >
> > > > > gmvick32@-------- wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I don't see how this is any different, and perhaps more liberal,
> than
> > > standard
> > > > > > election operation procedure. We certainly never saw the Lex
> Fabia
> > > that was
> > > > > > voted on for debate prior to the December election.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Livia
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Marcus Octavius Germanicus wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Salvete Tribunes,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Plebiscita to be brought before the Comitia Plebis
> Tributa
> > > shall be
> > > > > > > > posted to the Comitia on Thursday 18 January at
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Voting in the tribes shall begin on the candidates for
> > > Aedilis Plebis
> > > > > > > > and on all plebiscita on Saturday 20 January at 00:01 Roma
> (6:01
> > > PM EDST)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You're leaving less than two days between posting of the
> proposals
> > > > > > > and the start of voting? And posting the proposals to a
> > > sparsely-populated
> > > > > > > satellite list instead of the main mailing list?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This looks very much like you're trying to get something pushed
> > > through
> > > > > > > the Comitia with as much secrecy as possible.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Why not post them here, now, for open debate?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Valete, Octavius.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > M. Octavius Germanicus
> > > > > > > Propraetor, Lacus Magni
> > > > > > > Curator Araneae et Senator
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Last Call for Candidates
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Mon, 15 Jan 2001 20:34:07 -0800

And I am saying they were.....prior to it going to the Comitia, it was
submitted to the Senate like two months before going to the Comitia. The
Tribune of the Plebs Lucius Sergius presented it to the People when it was
brought before the Senate....and again verified it once it passed. Since
that time it was published in the Tabularium for all to see! Because
citizens didnt go to the Tabularium is no reason to blame anyone that it
wasnt available for all to see. It was! Then in December, when Consul
Fabius announced it would be in the agenda, you could have easily gone to
the Tabularium to view the contents of the law!

The fault is yours, Livia Cornelia, for not going to the Tabularium to view
the law when it was posted after it passed the Senate!

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

----- Original Message -----
From: <gmvick32@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Last Call for Candidates

> We're talking about POSTING potential laws PRIOR to ELECTIONS by COMITIA.
> Here's a question. If a Senatus Consultum isn't a law (didn't we have
this
> discussion before?) then why is a Senatus Consultum being posted in the
Laws
> section of the Tabularium after having been passed by the Senate (which
doesn't
> issue laws, remember?)
>
> ...and why is said posting of a Senatus Consultum, potentially months in
advance
> of an election, being considered acceptable substitute for posting notice
that
> the Senatus Consultum is to be floated as an item for VOTE by the COMITIA
> immediately prior to the election?
>
> Are we to consider that every Senatus Consultum is going to end up as an
item
> for vote by the Comitia?? If so, aren't we dreadfully behind in the
elections?
>
> Livia
>
>
>
> "L. Cornelius Sulla" wrote:
>
> > Ave
> >
> > Well the www.novaroma.org/main.html it lists Tabularium and underneath
it it
> > has Laws and Edicts. Maybe Senator M. Octavius can make some
improvement to
> > on tinclude more information here. But, I personally have an habit to
make
> > certain there are updates to the Senatus Consultum site and when Leges
are
> > passed I make sure they are listed as well as Edicts. Its a site I have
> > bookmarked. Citizens should be very proactive when it comes to checking
the
> > laws that govern our micronation.
> >
> > Also, let me state to you, publically that I have never called you
stupid.
> > This type of hyperbole is not proper for one who was appointed a
Governor of
> > a very important province and more importantly. I do not have stupid
people
> > in the Gens Cornelia!!
> >
> > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <gmvick32@-------->
> > To: <novaroma@-------->
> > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 7:32 PM
> > Subject: Re: [novaroma] Last Call for Candidates
> >
> > > Sorry, I don't make the logical leap from those events to the election
> > process.
> > >
> > > Proof of my hopeless stupidity, no doubt.
> > >
> > > Livia
> > >
> > >
> > > "L. Cornelius Sulla" wrote:
> > >
> > > > Ave
> > > >
> > > > Well the Tribunes of the Plebs have announced every time the Senate
has
> > been
> > > > summoned. And they have announced the voting results when they were
> > > > completed. Once the Tribs of the Plebs announce them...M. Octavius
has
> > been
> > > > very punctual about posting them on the Tabularium.
> > > >
> > > > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> > > > Censor
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: <gmvick32@-------->
> > > > To: <novaroma@-------->
> > > > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 6:13 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [novaroma] Last Call for Candidates
> > > >
> > > > > Sure, if you were aware a) that a Senatus Consultum had been
issued,
> > b)
> > > > that it was
> > > > > in the Tabularium, and c) that it was going to be on the ballot.
> > > > >
> > > > > The onus is not on the individual to figure out, by prescience,
what
> > they
> > > > will be
> > > > > voting on.
> > > > >
> > > > > Livia
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Lucius Cornelius Sulla wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > The Lex Fabia was available in the Tabularium once the Senate
voted
> > a
> > > > Senatus
> > > > > > Consultum. All you needed to do was to check the Tabularium.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> > > > > > Censor of Nova Roma
> > > > > >
> > > > > > gmvick32@-------- wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don't see how this is any different, and perhaps more
liberal,
> > than
> > > > standard
> > > > > > > election operation procedure. We certainly never saw the Lex
> > Fabia
> > > > that was
> > > > > > > voted on for debate prior to the December election.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Livia
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Marcus Octavius Germanicus wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Salvete Tribunes,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Plebiscita to be brought before the Comitia Plebis
> > Tributa
> > > > shall be
> > > > > > > > > posted to the Comitia on Thursday 18 January at
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Voting in the tribes shall begin on the candidates
for
> > > > Aedilis Plebis
> > > > > > > > > and on all plebiscita on Saturday 20 January at 00:01 Roma
> > (6:01
> > > > PM EDST)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You're leaving less than two days between posting of the
> > proposals
> > > > > > > > and the start of voting? And posting the proposals to a
> > > > sparsely-populated
> > > > > > > > satellite list instead of the main mailing list?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This looks very much like you're trying to get something
pushed
> > > > through
> > > > > > > > the Comitia with as much secrecy as possible.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Why not post them here, now, for open debate?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Valete, Octavius.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > M. Octavius Germanicus
> > > > > > > > Propraetor, Lacus Magni
> > > > > > > > Curator Araneae et Senator
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Citizens
From:	"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@-------->
Date:	Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:28:29 -0600

15 Jan 2001

Salve All

Our Repubilc has doubled in number since I joined, it is truly a great day.

Vale

Quintus Sertorius
Propraetor
Canada Occidentalis
quintus-sertorius@--------

Join the egroup for Canada Occidentalis
http://www.egroups.com/group/NR_CanOcc

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lucius Equitius" <vze23hw7@-------->
To: "Nova Roma" <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 8:57 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Citizens

> Salvete, Quirites
>
> Having just approved new gens members to Gens Constantinia, Nova Roma has
reached 700 cives!
>
> This is great progress that can only be made better by increased
involvement of those Paterfamilia et Materfamilia who have prospective gens
members awaiting approval.
>
> Bene omnibus nobis
> Valete, Censor Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Re: Local Groups
From:	"Oppius Flaccus" <oppiusflaccus@-------->
Date:	Mon, 15 Jan 2001 20:50:23 -0800

Ah yes, this is sounding way too familiar!
Very much the same situation as in America Boreoccidentalis I'm afraid.
Lots of previous threads about it. If either of you wish to write me
privately, I can let you know what I've run into.

Valete bene,
-Oppius
-----Original Message-----
From: L. Sicinius Drusus [mailto:drusus@--------]
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 7:36 PM
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Local Groups

Salve Aeternia,

I have written our our Propraetor and offered my services, and recived
no reply.

The Provincial web site shows no sign of having been updated in a long
time. I haven't seen any edictia for the American Austrorientlis
Provincia, and most disrurbing of all the Propraetor has been assigned
to an urban tribe for the last two years, showing she failed to even
vote. I fear that a provincia with 49 citizens lacks an active
governor.

Vale
Lucius Sicinius Drusus

--- In novaroma@--------, SyanneRose@c... wrote:
> Salve Lucius Sicinius Drusus,
>
>
> Yay!!!!!!! I thought I was the only one of our Provincia who was a
regular
> poster. Very glad to meet you. Perhaps we could suggest our input to
our
> Governor? Just an idea.
>
>
> Bene Vale,
> Aeternia

eGroups Sponsor

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Hello
From:	Jeff Smith <JSmithCSA@-------->
Date:	Mon, 15 Jan 2001 21:00:51 -0800 (PST)

Salve, and be welcome!

L Aetius Dalmaticus

--- allan001@-------- wrote:
> Hello
>
> I'm kinda new. i just got admitted as a itizen and
> im happy to be
> here. I am a resident of Canada Orientalis and my
> name is
> Marcus Drusillus Scaevola. Just wanted to drop a
> note saying hi to
> everyone.
>
> P.S. im just new at this so i apologize in advance
> for any faux paus
> i might have perpatrated
>
> --
> 9 out of 10 doctors say the 10th doctor should
> mellow out.
>
>
>

=====
LTC JEFFREY C. SMITH
HQ USAREUR/7A
CMR 420, BOX 2839
APO AE 09063-2839

"It's what you learn after you know it all that counts." --Jean Rostand

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Last Call for Candidates
From:	Ira Adams <iadams@-------->
Date:	Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:59:21 -0600

Salvete Tribunes

While I appreciate your initiative in setting up an election, I don't
consider it legal to do so in a private list that is NOT a public forum.
I just spent almost 30 minutes of time navigating multiple Web pages and
arranging to retrieve a password in order to gain the position of being
allowed to ask the unidentified list-owner for PERMISSION to join this
*private* list. This does not appear to be an appropriate venue for a
vote by the Comitia Plebis Tributa and any vote taken here will be of
doubtful legality under the present Constitution.

Valete,

L. Sergius Aust. Obst.

On 1/15/01 8:10 AM Gian G Reali (piscinus@--------) wrote:

> EX DOMO TRIBUNORUM PLEBIUM
>
>Salvete Quirites
>
> Re: Last call for candidates to announce their intention to stand for
>Aedilis Plebis.
>
> Nominations for the ofice of Aedilis Plebis shall close on Thurs 18
>January at 12:00 Midnight Roma (6:00 PM EDST). Plebeians wishing to run
>for this office may announce their candidacy in the Forum Romanum main
>list and/or to the Comitia Plebis Tributa list before the end of Thursday
>18 January 2754 AUC.
>
> Plebiscita to be brought before the Comitia Plebis Tributa shall be
>posted to the Comitia on Thursday 18 January at
>
>http://egroups.com/messages/comitiaplebistributa
>
> All Plebeian cives are encouraged to subscribe to their Comitia's list.
>All others are welcomed to subscribe.
>
> Voting in the tribes shall begin on the candidates for Aedilis Plebis
>and on all plebiscita on Saturday 20 January at 00:01 Roma (6:01 PM EDST)
>and end on Tuesday 30 January at 12:00 Midnight Roma (6:00 PM EDST) 2754
>AUC. Location of the cista shall be posted on the 19 January prior to
>its opening for the vote.
>
>Curate ut valeatis
>
>Tribuni Plebis T. Labienus Fortunatus et Cn. Moravius Piscinus
>


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Citizens
From:	"Oppius Flaccus" <oppiusflaccus@-------->
Date:	Mon, 15 Jan 2001 21:09:40 -0800

This is truly wonderful news! Hopefully all the new cives will be
participatory
in some way. Welcome all to the Respublica!

Valete bene,
-Oppius
-----Original Message-----
From: Lucius Equitius [mailto:vze23hw7@--------]
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 6:58 PM
To: Nova Roma
Subject: [novaroma] Citizens

Salvete, Quirites

Having just approved new gens members to Gens Constantinia, Nova Roma has
reached 700 cives!

This is great progress that can only be made better by increased
involvement of those Paterfamilia et Materfamilia who have prospective gens
members awaiting approval.

Bene omnibus nobis
Valete, Censor Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

eGroups Sponsor

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Last Call for Candidates
From:	gmvick32@--------
Date:	Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:53:13 -0700

"L. Cornelius Sulla" wrote:

> And I am saying they were.....prior to it going to the Comitia, it was
> submitted to the Senate like two months before going to the Comitia. The
> Tribune of the Plebs Lucius Sergius presented it to the People when it was
> brought before the Senate....and again verified it once it passed. Since
> that time it was published in the Tabularium for all to see!

Granted, it was in the Tabularium. I maintain nobody but a few magistrates and
Senators understood that it was an item they'd be voting on at some future
point. OK, I won't speak for anybody else. Myself, if it's something I'm
suppossed to be voting on, I don't look for it in the place with the
already-approved laws. BUT....this issue is beside the point.

> Then in December, when Consul
> Fabius announced it would be in the agenda, you could have easily gone to
> the Tabularium to view the contents of the law!

THIS is my point. Fabius never announced it would be on the agenda for the
election. I've taken liberty to supply the two official posts we received from
Fabius about the election in December (not the Senate call, the COMITIA
election). There's no mention in the archives that I can find to the effect
of....."and yes cives, you'll be voting on Lex Fabia such-and-such".

Explicit announcement of the addition of the single Lex Fabia on the election
ballot prior to calling the Comitia vote never occured. So, to my mind, whether
it's right or not for Tribune Piscinus to ask the cives to go to the CPT to
review the items for vote, he's already provided more to the cives going into
this election than we had in the prior election, simply by stated there are laws
coming up for vote and where to view them!

> The fault is yours, Livia Cornelia, for not going to the Tabularium to view
> the law when it was posted after it passed the Senate!

Laws don't pass the Senate. Senate Consultums (i.e., policies) pass the
Senate. We already discussed this.

Livia

post #16731, posted 12/6/00 by the Sr. Consul:

Salvete Citizens of Rome.

The Comitia Centuriata is summoned this Dec 7th to elect the new
Consules,
Praetors Urbanii, and Censor.
Gather at http://www.novaroma.org/cursus_honorum/voting/ to cast
your votes.

The Comitia Tributa is summoned this Dec 7th to elect Curule
Aedilii,
Quaestors, and the lesser Magistrates.
It also summoned to vote items into law. Assemble at
http://www.novaroma.org/cursus_honorum/voting/ to cast your votes

Fortuna preserve our Republic, Minervia enlighten our voters.
Valete!
The Consules

post #16263, posted 11/27/00 by the Sr. Consul:

To all citizens of Nova Roma,
Those who wish to stand for office in the upcoming year, you are
requsted to
don your whitened toga and declare yourself as standing for which
office.
Nova Roma will need:
2 Consuls

1 Censor

2 Praetor Urbanus

2 Aedilis Plebeiaus

2 Tribunas Plebis

8 Quaestors (minimum of four)

Vigintisexviri (At least four with various functions)

The Consuls of Nova Roma

> You're leaving less than two days between posting of the
> proposals
> and the start of voting? And posting the proposals to a
> sparsely-populated
> satellite list instead of the main mailing list?
> > > > > > > > >
> This looks very much like you're trying to get something
> pushed
> through
> the Comitia with as much secrecy as possible.
> > > > > > > > >
> Why not post them here, now, for open debate?
> > > > > > > > >
> Valete, Octavius.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> M. Octavius Germanicus
> Propraetor, Lacus Magni
> Curator Araneae et Senator


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Last Call for Candidates
From:	Jeff Smith <JSmithCSA@-------->
Date:	Mon, 15 Jan 2001 21:45:32 -0800 (PST)

Salve:

I fear you will also find you will have a wait to get
on. I'm still waiting.

L Aetius Dalmaticus

--- Ira Adams <iadams@--------> wrote:
> Salvete Tribunes
>
> While I appreciate your initiative in setting up an
> election, I don't
> consider it legal to do so in a private list that is
> NOT a public forum.
> I just spent almost 30 minutes of time navigating
> multiple Web pages and
> arranging to retrieve a password in order to gain
> the position of being
> allowed to ask the unidentified list-owner for
> PERMISSION to join this
> *private* list. This does not appear to be an
> appropriate venue for a
> vote by the Comitia Plebis Tributa and any vote
> taken here will be of
> doubtful legality under the present Constitution.
>
> Valete,
>
> L. Sergius Aust. Obst.
>
>
> On 1/15/01 8:10 AM Gian G Reali (piscinus@--------)
> wrote:
>
> > EX DOMO TRIBUNORUM PLEBIUM
> >
> >Salvete Quirites
> >
> > Re: Last call for candidates to announce their
> intention to stand for
> >Aedilis Plebis.
> >
> > Nominations for the ofice of Aedilis Plebis shall
> close on Thurs 18
> >January at 12:00 Midnight Roma (6:00 PM EDST).
> Plebeians wishing to run
> >for this office may announce their candidacy in the
> Forum Romanum main
> >list and/or to the Comitia Plebis Tributa list
> before the end of Thursday
> >18 January 2754 AUC.
> >
> > Plebiscita to be brought before the Comitia Plebis
> Tributa shall be
> >posted to the Comitia on Thursday 18 January at
> >
> >http://egroups.com/messages/comitiaplebistributa
> >
> > All Plebeian cives are encouraged to subscribe to
> their Comitia's list.
> >All others are welcomed to subscribe.
> >
> > Voting in the tribes shall begin on the candidates
> for Aedilis Plebis
> >and on all plebiscita on Saturday 20 January at
> 00:01 Roma (6:01 PM EDST)
> >and end on Tuesday 30 January at 12:00 Midnight
> Roma (6:00 PM EDST) 2754
> >AUC. Location of the cista shall be posted on the
> 19 January prior to
> >its opening for the vote.
> >
> >Curate ut valeatis
> >
> >Tribuni Plebis T. Labienus Fortunatus et Cn.
> Moravius Piscinus
> >
>

=====
LTC JEFFREY C. SMITH
HQ USAREUR/7A
CMR 420, BOX 2839
APO AE 09063-2839

"It's what you learn after you know it all that counts." --Jean Rostand

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Last Call for Candidates
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Mon, 15 Jan 2001 21:45:47 -0800

Ave!

It took about 24-48 hours for me to get on the list..and I am a Patrician!
:)

Sulla Felix

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Smith" <JSmithCSA@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 9:45 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Last Call for Candidates

> Salve:
>
> I fear you will also find you will have a wait to get
> on. I'm still waiting.
>
> L Aetius Dalmaticus
>
> --- Ira Adams <iadams@--------> wrote:
> > Salvete Tribunes
> >
> > While I appreciate your initiative in setting up an
> > election, I don't
> > consider it legal to do so in a private list that is
> > NOT a public forum.
> > I just spent almost 30 minutes of time navigating
> > multiple Web pages and
> > arranging to retrieve a password in order to gain
> > the position of being
> > allowed to ask the unidentified list-owner for
> > PERMISSION to join this
> > *private* list. This does not appear to be an
> > appropriate venue for a
> > vote by the Comitia Plebis Tributa and any vote
> > taken here will be of
> > doubtful legality under the present Constitution.
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > L. Sergius Aust. Obst.
> >
> >
> > On 1/15/01 8:10 AM Gian G Reali (piscinus@--------)
> > wrote:
> >
> > > EX DOMO TRIBUNORUM PLEBIUM
> > >
> > >Salvete Quirites
> > >
> > > Re: Last call for candidates to announce their
> > intention to stand for
> > >Aedilis Plebis.
> > >
> > > Nominations for the ofice of Aedilis Plebis shall
> > close on Thurs 18
> > >January at 12:00 Midnight Roma (6:00 PM EDST).
> > Plebeians wishing to run
> > >for this office may announce their candidacy in the
> > Forum Romanum main
> > >list and/or to the Comitia Plebis Tributa list
> > before the end of Thursday
> > >18 January 2754 AUC.
> > >
> > > Plebiscita to be brought before the Comitia Plebis
> > Tributa shall be
> > >posted to the Comitia on Thursday 18 January at
> > >
> > >http://egroups.com/messages/comitiaplebistributa
> > >
> > > All Plebeian cives are encouraged to subscribe to
> > their Comitia's list.
> > >All others are welcomed to subscribe.
> > >
> > > Voting in the tribes shall begin on the candidates
> > for Aedilis Plebis
> > >and on all plebiscita on Saturday 20 January at
> > 00:01 Roma (6:01 PM EDST)
> > >and end on Tuesday 30 January at 12:00 Midnight
> > Roma (6:00 PM EDST) 2754
> > >AUC. Location of the cista shall be posted on the
> > 19 January prior to
> > >its opening for the vote.
> > >
> > >Curate ut valeatis
> > >
> > >Tribuni Plebis T. Labienus Fortunatus et Cn.
> > Moravius Piscinus
> > >
> >
>
>
> =====
> LTC JEFFREY C. SMITH
> HQ USAREUR/7A
> CMR 420, BOX 2839
> APO AE 09063-2839
>
> "It's what you learn after you know it all that counts." --Jean Rostand
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
>


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Last Call for Candidates
From:	gmvick32@--------
Date:	Mon, 15 Jan 2001 23:12:36 -0700

I wonder if the moderator of that list is still the former tribune who founded
it, Tarquinius Caesar?

Livia Cornelia Aurelia

"L. Cornelius Sulla" wrote:

> Ave!
>
> It took about 24-48 hours for me to get on the list..and I am a Patrician!
> :)
>
> Sulla Felix
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Smith" <JSmithCSA@-------->
> To: <novaroma@-------->
> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 9:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [novaroma] Last Call for Candidates
>
> > Salve:
> >
> > I fear you will also find you will have a wait to get
> > on. I'm still waiting.
> >
> > L Aetius Dalmaticus
> >
> > --- Ira Adams <iadams@--------> wrote:
> > > Salvete Tribunes
> > >
> > > While I appreciate your initiative in setting up an
> > > election, I don't
> > > consider it legal to do so in a private list that is
> > > NOT a public forum.
> > > I just spent almost 30 minutes of time navigating
> > > multiple Web pages and
> > > arranging to retrieve a password in order to gain
> > > the position of being
> > > allowed to ask the unidentified list-owner for
> > > PERMISSION to join this
> > > *private* list. This does not appear to be an
> > > appropriate venue for a
> > > vote by the Comitia Plebis Tributa and any vote
> > > taken here will be of
> > > doubtful legality under the present Constitution.
> > >
> > > Valete,
> > >
> > > L. Sergius Aust. Obst.
> > >
> > >
> > > On 1/15/01 8:10 AM Gian G Reali (piscinus@--------)
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > EX DOMO TRIBUNORUM PLEBIUM
> > > >
> > > >Salvete Quirites
> > > >
> > > > Re: Last call for candidates to announce their
> > > intention to stand for
> > > >Aedilis Plebis.
> > > >
> > > > Nominations for the ofice of Aedilis Plebis shall
> > > close on Thurs 18
> > > >January at 12:00 Midnight Roma (6:00 PM EDST).
> > > Plebeians wishing to run
> > > >for this office may announce their candidacy in the
> > > Forum Romanum main
> > > >list and/or to the Comitia Plebis Tributa list
> > > before the end of Thursday
> > > >18 January 2754 AUC.
> > > >
> > > > Plebiscita to be brought before the Comitia Plebis
> > > Tributa shall be
> > > >posted to the Comitia on Thursday 18 January at
> > > >
> > > >http://egroups.com/messages/comitiaplebistributa
> > > >
> > > > All Plebeian cives are encouraged to subscribe to
> > > their Comitia's list.
> > > >All others are welcomed to subscribe.
> > > >
> > > > Voting in the tribes shall begin on the candidates
> > > for Aedilis Plebis
> > > >and on all plebiscita on Saturday 20 January at
> > > 00:01 Roma (6:01 PM EDST)
> > > >and end on Tuesday 30 January at 12:00 Midnight
> > > Roma (6:00 PM EDST) 2754
> > > >AUC. Location of the cista shall be posted on the
> > > 19 January prior to
> > > >its opening for the vote.
> > > >
> > > >Curate ut valeatis
> > > >
> > > >Tribuni Plebis T. Labienus Fortunatus et Cn.
> > > Moravius Piscinus
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > LTC JEFFREY C. SMITH
> > HQ USAREUR/7A
> > CMR 420, BOX 2839
> > APO AE 09063-2839
> >
> > "It's what you learn after you know it all that counts." --Jean Rostand
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Last Call for Candidates
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:13:36 -0800

Yes...it is...He is the Owner..and Tribune Piscinus and Tribune Fortuatus
are moderators.

SF
----- Original Message -----
From: <gmvick32@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Last Call for Candidates

> I wonder if the moderator of that list is still the former tribune who
founded
> it, Tarquinius Caesar?
>
> Livia Cornelia Aurelia
>
>
>
> "L. Cornelius Sulla" wrote:
>
> > Ave!
> >
> > It took about 24-48 hours for me to get on the list..and I am a
Patrician!
> > :)
> >
> > Sulla Felix
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jeff Smith" <JSmithCSA@-------->
> > To: <novaroma@-------->
> > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 9:45 PM
> > Subject: Re: [novaroma] Last Call for Candidates
> >
> > > Salve:
> > >
> > > I fear you will also find you will have a wait to get
> > > on. I'm still waiting.
> > >
> > > L Aetius Dalmaticus
> > >
> > > --- Ira Adams <iadams@--------> wrote:
> > > > Salvete Tribunes
> > > >
> > > > While I appreciate your initiative in setting up an
> > > > election, I don't
> > > > consider it legal to do so in a private list that is
> > > > NOT a public forum.
> > > > I just spent almost 30 minutes of time navigating
> > > > multiple Web pages and
> > > > arranging to retrieve a password in order to gain
> > > > the position of being
> > > > allowed to ask the unidentified list-owner for
> > > > PERMISSION to join this
> > > > *private* list. This does not appear to be an
> > > > appropriate venue for a
> > > > vote by the Comitia Plebis Tributa and any vote
> > > > taken here will be of
> > > > doubtful legality under the present Constitution.
> > > >
> > > > Valete,
> > > >
> > > > L. Sergius Aust. Obst.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 1/15/01 8:10 AM Gian G Reali (piscinus@--------)
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > EX DOMO TRIBUNORUM PLEBIUM
> > > > >
> > > > >Salvete Quirites
> > > > >
> > > > > Re: Last call for candidates to announce their
> > > > intention to stand for
> > > > >Aedilis Plebis.
> > > > >
> > > > > Nominations for the ofice of Aedilis Plebis shall
> > > > close on Thurs 18
> > > > >January at 12:00 Midnight Roma (6:00 PM EDST).
> > > > Plebeians wishing to run
> > > > >for this office may announce their candidacy in the
> > > > Forum Romanum main
> > > > >list and/or to the Comitia Plebis Tributa list
> > > > before the end of Thursday
> > > > >18 January 2754 AUC.
> > > > >
> > > > > Plebiscita to be brought before the Comitia Plebis
> > > > Tributa shall be
> > > > >posted to the Comitia on Thursday 18 January at
> > > > >
> > > > >http://egroups.com/messages/comitiaplebistributa
> > > > >
> > > > > All Plebeian cives are encouraged to subscribe to
> > > > their Comitia's list.
> > > > >All others are welcomed to subscribe.
> > > > >
> > > > > Voting in the tribes shall begin on the candidates
> > > > for Aedilis Plebis
> > > > >and on all plebiscita on Saturday 20 January at
> > > > 00:01 Roma (6:01 PM EDST)
> > > > >and end on Tuesday 30 January at 12:00 Midnight
> > > > Roma (6:00 PM EDST) 2754
> > > > >AUC. Location of the cista shall be posted on the
> > > > 19 January prior to
> > > > >its opening for the vote.
> > > > >
> > > > >Curate ut valeatis
> > > > >
> > > > >Tribuni Plebis T. Labienus Fortunatus et Cn.
> > > > Moravius Piscinus
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > =====
> > > LTC JEFFREY C. SMITH
> > > HQ USAREUR/7A
> > > CMR 420, BOX 2839
> > > APO AE 09063-2839
> > >
> > > "It's what you learn after you know it all that counts." --Jean
Rostand
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Last Call for Candidates
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:22:11 -0800

----- Original Message -----
From: <gmvick32@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 9:53 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Last Call for Candidates

> "L. Cornelius Sulla" wrote:
>
> > And I am saying they were.....prior to it going to the Comitia, it was
> > submitted to the Senate like two months before going to the Comitia.
The
> > Tribune of the Plebs Lucius Sergius presented it to the People when it
was
> > brought before the Senate....and again verified it once it passed.
Since
> > that time it was published in the Tabularium for all to see!
>
> Granted, it was in the Tabularium. I maintain nobody but a few
magistrates and
> Senators understood that it was an item they'd be voting on at some future
> point. OK, I won't speak for anybody else. Myself, if it's something I'm
> suppossed to be voting on, I don't look for it in the place with the
> already-approved laws. BUT....this issue is beside the point.

Thank you for that. :) The point I was trying to make was that the
Tabularium is subdivided by Lexes, Edicts, Senatus Consultum, Priestly
Decress and other things I have probably left out. All you need to do is to
go into the Tabularium and click on the section that states Senatus
Consultum and it will show (from the most recent) items that were passed by
the Senate.

And I am sure we all know that anything passed by the Senate is not "law"
but a recommendation by the Senate. It is clearly stated as such in the
Constitution of Nova Roma.

>
> > Then in December, when Consul
> > Fabius announced it would be in the agenda, you could have easily gone
to
> > the Tabularium to view the contents of the law!
>
> THIS is my point. Fabius never announced it would be on the agenda for
the
> election. I've taken liberty to supply the two official posts we received
from
> Fabius about the election in December (not the Senate call, the COMITIA
> election). There's no mention in the archives that I can find to the
effect
> of....."and yes cives, you'll be voting on Lex Fabia such-and-such".

I am sure there was a post..but without going to the archieves I cannot
comment on that for certain since I am at work...I do see the post you
published....and I remember seeing that..but I think I recall seeing another
one that listed the law that he was putting up too.

> Explicit announcement of the addition of the single Lex Fabia on the
election
> ballot prior to calling the Comitia vote never occured. So, to my mind,
whether
> it's right or not for Tribune Piscinus to ask the cives to go to the CPT
to
> review the items for vote, he's already provided more to the cives going
into
> this election than we had in the prior election, simply by stated there
are laws
> coming up for vote and where to view them!

If that is the case then you are correct, however, I think that even at this
point Tribune Piscinus is not doing it the right way either. Considering
the problems that are being pointed out by other Plebians about their
inability to get into the list. And the fact that the Comitia Plebis
requires authorization. And the fact that there will be barely 2 days of
debate before the voting starts, I also share the concerns of Senator M.
Octavius. But, I share one other concern. If the laws are passed by the
Comita Plebis are bound by all citizens, why not let all citizens vote on
it, not just Plebians? But considering we still do not know what is being
voted on, its no use discussing that.

>
> > The fault is yours, Livia Cornelia, for not going to the Tabularium to
view
> > the law when it was posted after it passed the Senate!
>
> Laws don't pass the Senate. Senate Consultums (i.e., policies) pass the
> Senate. We already discussed this.

True, but as I stated above, anything passed as a Senatus Consultum is still
listed in the Tabularium. Please go there and review, you will see exactly
my point. Regardless if it is an edict, a Lex, a Priestly decree or a
Senatus Consultum it will be housed in the Tabularium.

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor of Nova Roma

> Livia
>
> post #16731, posted 12/6/00 by the Sr. Consul:
>
> Salvete Citizens of Rome.
>
> The Comitia Centuriata is summoned this Dec 7th to elect the
new
> Consules,
> Praetors Urbanii, and Censor.
> Gather at http://www.novaroma.org/cursus_honorum/voting/ to
cast
> your votes.
>
> The Comitia Tributa is summoned this Dec 7th to elect Curule
> Aedilii,
> Quaestors, and the lesser Magistrates.
> It also summoned to vote items into law. Assemble at
> http://www.novaroma.org/cursus_honorum/voting/ to cast your
votes
>
> Fortuna preserve our Republic, Minervia enlighten our
voters.
> Valete!
> The Consules
>
> post #16263, posted 11/27/00 by the Sr. Consul:
>
> To all citizens of Nova Roma,
> Those who wish to stand for office in the upcoming year, you
are
> requsted to
> don your whitened toga and declare yourself as standing for
which
> office.
> Nova Roma will need:
> 2 Consuls
>
> 1 Censor
>
> 2 Praetor Urbanus
>
> 2 Aedilis Plebeiaus
>
> 2 Tribunas Plebis
>
> 8 Quaestors (minimum of four)
>
> Vigintisexviri (At least four with various functions)
>
> The Consuls of Nova Roma
>
>
>
> > You're leaving less than two days between posting of the
> > proposals
> > and the start of voting? And posting the proposals to a
> > sparsely-populated
> > satellite list instead of the main mailing list?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > This looks very much like you're trying to get something
> > pushed
> > through
> > the Comitia with as much secrecy as possible.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > Why not post them here, now, for open debate?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > Valete, Octavius.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --
> > M. Octavius Germanicus
> > Propraetor, Lacus Magni
> > Curator Araneae et Senator
>
>
>
>
>


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Local Groups
From:	SyanneRose@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 01:34:22 EST

Salve Lucius,

Now that you have told me this, I would have to agree it is disappointing to
hear. This is my thought on it, perhaps our acting Propraetor didn't take
action because up until recently no one took intrest of building our
Provincia up? Just something to think about in my opinion.

Bene Vale,
Aeternia


Subject:	[novaroma] New Citizens
From:	SyanneRose@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 02:15:33 EST

Salvete Quirites,

I would also like to welcome all of our new citizens to Nova Roma. May their
stay be long and happy.

Avete,
Aeternia


Subject:	[novaroma] new citizen
From:	quintus_lutatius_catulus@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 07:53:32 -0000

Hi all
I'm happy to be a new citizen, Quintus Lutatius Catulus

si tu bene valeas ego bene valeo


Subject:	Re: [novaroma]from the American Austrorientlis Provincia Propraetor
From:	sfp55@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 03:05:32 EST

>>Salve Aeternia,

I have written our our Propraetor and offered my services, and recived no
reply.
The Provincial web site shows no sign of having been updated in a long time.
I haven't seen any edictia for the American Austrorientlis
Provincia, and most disrurbing of all the Propraetor has been assigned to an
urban tribe for the last two years, showing she failed to even vote. I fear
that a provincia with 49 citizens lacks an active
governor.
Vale Lucius Sicinius Drusus >>
Salve Lucius Sicinius Drusus
M. Iucundia Flavia has been having computer problems. That is why her
participation is so sporadic. She told me this evening via landline that she
would "update the site on Wednesday evening and then send out a message to
that effect..."
I'm sure if you waited this long, you can wait another 2 days
The Senator and Propraetor has been with NR since its inception. Any Edicta
she issued were certainly not recent...She did vote in the last election, she
messed up her code and did not know it. I did the same thing two elections
ago. It happens
Vale
Q. Fabius Maximus
Praetor Urbanus


Subject:	Re: [novaroma]from the American Austrorientlis Provincia Propraetor
From:	SyanneRose@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 03:09:14 EST

Salve Quintus Fabius,

I can understand computer problems fully, if you could, the next time you
speak with her, send her my regards.

Vale,
Aeternia


Subject:	[novaroma] Nova Roma on TV!!!!
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla <alexious@-------->
Date:	Mon, 15 Jan 2001 23:13:19 -0800

Ave,

I have just spoken to one of our new Italian citizens, Quintius Lutatius
Catulus, and he told me that we were on Italian TV, channel RAI 2. It
was the news of the afternoon, and they were talking about Iubelaeum in
Rome and then about Rome on the World Wide Web. And it was in that
context that we were mentioned! :)

Between that television broadcast and radio broadcasts its no wonder
that we are getting a large influx of citizens from Italy! I think this
news is very noteworthy about the progress of Nova Roma! I hope you are
all just as excited as I am about this publicty. This is very
wonderful!!!

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor of Nova Roma


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Nova Roma on TV!!!!
From:	Jeff Smith <JSmithCSA@-------->
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 00:37:23 -0800 (PST)

You know, this news from Italy just keeps getting
better. This is great news...the governor and people
in Italy are to be commended!

L Aetius Dalmaticus

--- Lucius Cornelius Sulla <alexious@-------->
wrote:
> Ave,
>
> I have just spoken to one of our new Italian
> citizens, Quintius Lutatius
> Catulus, and he told me that we were on Italian TV,
> channel RAI 2. It
> was the news of the afternoon, and they were talking
> about Iubelaeum in
> Rome and then about Rome on the World Wide Web. And
> it was in that
> context that we were mentioned! :)
>
> Between that television broadcast and radio
> broadcasts its no wonder
> that we are getting a large influx of citizens from
> Italy! I think this
> news is very noteworthy about the progress of Nova
> Roma! I hope you are
> all just as excited as I am about this publicty.
> This is very
> wonderful!!!
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> Censor of Nova Roma
>
>

=====
LTC JEFFREY C. SMITH
HQ USAREUR/7A
CMR 420, BOX 2839
APO AE 09063-2839

"It's what you learn after you know it all that counts." --Jean Rostand

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Roman Names
From:	SyanneRose@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 03:37:51 EST

Salve Siegneur Funk,

I would have to agree with Marcus Audens, even if I am a week late. I would
also like to say, that picking your roman name is something that shouldn't be
rushed. What I'm really trying to say is, don't rush, and pick something you
like and most of all be comfortable with it. Good luck, and I can't wait too
see what you chose. Or by now you could've have already picked your roman
name, in any case I had to share my insight.

Bene Vale,
Aeternia


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Nova Roma on TV!!!!
From:	SyanneRose@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 03:40:25 EST

Salve,

This is very good news, thank you for sharing it with us.

Vale,
Aeternia


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] NOVA ROMA: capita V, VI et VII
From:	SyanneRose@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 03:54:11 EST

Salve Draco et alii,

Now I know, I already responded to this once, but I am truly envious of your
writing ability. Thank you for sharing your creativity with us.

Ave,
Aeternia


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Last Call for Candidates
From:	Jeff Smith <JSmithCSA@-------->
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 01:05:20 -0800 (PST)

Salve:
--- "L. Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@-------->
wrote:

> It took about 24-48 hours for me to get on the
> list..and I am a Patrician!
> :)

So much for the security precautions! ;)

I guess I get to wait longer because I'm NOT a
Patrician, and AM running for office Aedile Plebis.

L Aetius Dalmaticus

=====
LTC JEFFREY C. SMITH
HQ USAREUR/7A
CMR 420, BOX 2839
APO AE 09063-2839

"It's what you learn after you know it all that counts." --Jean Rostand

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Nova Roma on TV!!!!
From:	"Caius Flavius Diocletianus" <3s@-------->
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 11:27:49 +0100

Salvete,

wonderful news from Italia. This is indeed the publicity we need. I really
hope that the same might happen in other countries.

Valete
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Praetor

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lucius Cornelius Sulla" <alexious@-------->
To: "NovaRoma" <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 8:13 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Nova Roma on TV!!!!

> Ave,
>
> I have just spoken to one of our new Italian citizens, Quintius Lutatius
> Catulus, and he told me that we were on Italian TV, channel RAI 2. It
> was the news of the afternoon, and they were talking about Iubelaeum in
> Rome and then about Rome on the World Wide Web. And it was in that
> context that we were mentioned! :)
>
> Between that television broadcast and radio broadcasts its no wonder
> that we are getting a large influx of citizens from Italy! I think this
> news is very noteworthy about the progress of Nova Roma! I hope you are
> all just as excited as I am about this publicty. This is very
> wonderful!!!
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> Censor of Nova Roma
>
>
>
>
>


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Citizens
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <drusus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 10:41:03 -0000

Salvete,

This is wonderful news!
I offer a warm welcome to all the new citizens.

Valete
Lucius Sicinius Drusus

--- In novaroma@--------, "Lucius Equitius" <vze23hw7@v...> wrote:
> Salvete, Quirites
>
> Having just approved new gens members to Gens Constantinia, Nova
Roma has reached 700 cives!
>
> This is great progress that can only be made better by increased
involvement of those Paterfamilia et Materfamilia who have prospective
gens members awaiting approval.
>
> Bene omnibus nobis
> Valete, Censor Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[novaroma] Basilica
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <drusus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 11:04:04 -0000

In Roma Antiquia the basilica was the place where citizens met to
transact public and private bussiness. The oldest was the Basilica
Porcia. Others included the Basilicae Sempronia, Aemilia, and Opmia.
Praetors held court in these great halls, and merchants leased space
to ply thier wares.

In Nova Roma our web browsers are the our Basilicae. They are how we
meet other citizens, buy merchandise, and conduct legal bussiness. In
old Roma the basilicae were donated to the people by citizens, and
they were named for the Gens that made the donation.

In this spirit of donation, I announce the Basilica Project. The
Mozilla Project has been working on a free open source web browser for
some years, and I've been involved with this. Mozilla is nearing
compleation and should be released this year. I've started working on
a custom version called Basilica that I'm offering to all citizens of
Nova Roma.

Basilica will be a browser with a roman theme. It'll be easily adapted
to any language, though the inital release will be in English. It'll
include a mail program that can handle multiple E-mail accounts, and a
HTML editor to set up web sites. Best of all it will work on any
platform, Windows, Mac or Linux.

Valvete,
Lucius Sicinius Drusus


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Basilica
From:	"Caius Flavius Diocletianus" <3s@-------->
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 13:27:21 +0100

Salvete Quirites et Luci Sicini,

indeed an interesting and fascinating project, Luci Sicini. I�m so sorry
that I�m not a programmer. Please let me know when the Basilica is
available, I�m sure that I will be one of the first users, on both Windows
and Linux platforms.

Btw, what about the Nova Roma Logo in the toop right corner? Only an idea,
but worth to discuss, I think :-)

Thank you very much for kind and generous offer.

Bene Valete
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Praetor

----- Original Message -----
From: "L. Sicinius Drusus" <drusus@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 12:04 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Basilica

> In Roma Antiquia the basilica was the place where citizens met to
> transact public and private bussiness. The oldest was the Basilica
> Porcia. Others included the Basilicae Sempronia, Aemilia, and Opmia.
> Praetors held court in these great halls, and merchants leased space
> to ply thier wares.
>
> In Nova Roma our web browsers are the our Basilicae. They are how we
> meet other citizens, buy merchandise, and conduct legal bussiness. In
> old Roma the basilicae were donated to the people by citizens, and
> they were named for the Gens that made the donation.
>
> In this spirit of donation, I announce the Basilica Project. The
> Mozilla Project has been working on a free open source web browser for
> some years, and I've been involved with this. Mozilla is nearing
> compleation and should be released this year. I've started working on
> a custom version called Basilica that I'm offering to all citizens of
> Nova Roma.
>
> Basilica will be a browser with a roman theme. It'll be easily adapted
> to any language, though the inital release will be in English. It'll
> include a mail program that can handle multiple E-mail accounts, and a
> HTML editor to set up web sites. Best of all it will work on any
> platform, Windows, Mac or Linux.
>
> Valvete,
> Lucius Sicinius Drusus
>
>
>
>
>


Subject:	Re: [novaroma]from the American Austrorientlis Provincia Propraetor
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <drusus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 12:36:04 -0000

Salvete,
I'm releaved to hear it's nothing more than techinal problems.
If anyone can contact M. Iucundia Flavia, please tell her my offer of
assistance includes computer help. My job is providing tech support to
a computer help desk. I'm the guy the help desk calls when they need
help! If she is using Windows or Linux I can assist her. Macs are
something I've never worked with.

Vale,
L. Sicinius Drusus

> Salve Lucius Sicinius Drusus
> M. Iucundia Flavia has been having computer problems. That is why her
> participation is so sporadic. She told me this evening via landline
that she
> would "update the site on Wednesday evening and then send out a
message to
> that effect..."
> I'm sure if you waited this long, you can wait another 2 days
> The Senator and Propraetor has been with NR since its inception.
Any Edicta
> she issued were certainly not recent...She did vote in the last
election, she
> messed up her code and did not know it. I did the same thing two
elections
> ago. It happens
> Vale
> Q. Fabius Maximus
> Praetor Urbanus


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Basilica
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <drusus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 12:41:40 -0000

That was one of the first things I did! I greated a Nova Roma logo,
and when the browser is downloading the SPQR and the wreath grows
brighter and dimmer. Clicking on the logo will take you to the Nova
Roma Homepage.

--- In novaroma@--------, "Caius Flavius Diocletianus" <3s@h...> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites et Luci Sicini,
>
> indeed an interesting and fascinating project, Luci Sicini. I�m so sorry
> that I�m not a programmer. Please let me know when the Basilica is
> available, I�m sure that I will be one of the first users, on both
Windows
> and Linux platforms.
>
> Btw, what about the Nova Roma Logo in the toop right corner? Only an
idea,
> but worth to discuss, I think :-)
>
> Thank you very much for kind and generous offer.
>
> Bene Valete
> Caius Flavius Diocletianus
> Praetor
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "L. Sicinius Drusus" <drusus@-------->
> To: <novaroma@-------->
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 12:04 PM
> Subject: [novaroma] Basilica
>
>
> > In Roma Antiquia the basilica was the place where citizens met to
> > transact public and private bussiness. The oldest was the Basilica
> > Porcia. Others included the Basilicae Sempronia, Aemilia, and Opmia.
> > Praetors held court in these great halls, and merchants leased space
> > to ply thier wares.
> >
> > In Nova Roma our web browsers are the our Basilicae. They are how we
> > meet other citizens, buy merchandise, and conduct legal bussiness. In
> > old Roma the basilicae were donated to the people by citizens, and
> > they were named for the Gens that made the donation.
> >
> > In this spirit of donation, I announce the Basilica Project. The
> > Mozilla Project has been working on a free open source web browser for
> > some years, and I've been involved with this. Mozilla is nearing
> > compleation and should be released this year. I've started working on
> > a custom version called Basilica that I'm offering to all citizens of
> > Nova Roma.
> >
> > Basilica will be a browser with a roman theme. It'll be easily adapted
> > to any language, though the inital release will be in English. It'll
> > include a mail program that can handle multiple E-mail accounts, and a
> > HTML editor to set up web sites. Best of all it will work on any
> > platform, Windows, Mac or Linux.
> >
> > Valvete,
> > Lucius Sicinius Drusus
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Basilica
From:	allan001@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:01:20 -0200

"L. Sicinius Drusus" wrote:

> In Roma Antiquia the basilica was the place where citizens met to
> transact public and private bussiness. The oldest was the Basilica
> Porcia. Others included the Basilicae Sempronia, Aemilia, and Opmia.
> Praetors held court in these great halls, and merchants leased space
> to ply thier wares.
>
> In Nova Roma our web browsers are the our Basilicae. They are how we
> meet other citizens, buy merchandise, and conduct legal bussiness. In
> old Roma the basilicae were donated to the people by citizens, and
> they were named for the Gens that made the donation.
>
> In this spirit of donation, I announce the Basilica Project. The
> Mozilla Project has been working on a free open source web browser for
> some years, and I've been involved with this. Mozilla is nearing
> compleation and should be released this year. I've started working on
> a custom version called Basilica that I'm offering to all citizens of
> Nova Roma.
>
> Basilica will be a browser with a roman theme. It'll be easily adapted
> to any language, though the inital release will be in English. It'll
> include a mail program that can handle multiple E-mail accounts, and a
> HTML editor to set up web sites. Best of all it will work on any
> platform, Windows, Mac or Linux.
>
> Valvete,
> Lucius Sicinius Drusus

that seems like a wonderful idea. please inform us all when it comes out.

--
Honesty is the best policy, but insanity is a better defence.


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Citizens
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 08:24:14 -0500

Salve;

Truly wonderful news! Welcome to all our new Cives on the main list, and I
hope you'll all find ways to take an active interest in our fair Republic!

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lucius Equitius [mailto:vze23hw7@--------]
> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 21:58
> To: Nova Roma
> Subject: [novaroma] Citizens
>
>
> Salvete, Quirites
>
> Having just approved new gens members to Gens Constantinia, Nova
> Roma has reached 700 cives!
>
> This is great progress that can only be made better by increased
> involvement of those Paterfamilia et Materfamilia who have
> prospective gens members awaiting approval.
>
> Bene omnibus nobis
> Valete, Censor Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus


Subject:	[novaroma] Martiana Felina
From:	Thomas Gangale <marcus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 05:47:26 -0800

Salvete omnis,

It is my privilege to announce the new member of Gens Martiana, Martiana
Felina, citizen of Mediatlantica Provincia. Please join me in welcoming
her to Nova Roma!

Mars nos protegis, et ad Martem!

Marcus Martianus Gangalius
Legatus, Provincia California
Lictor Curiata
Paterfamilias, Gens Martiana

http://www.martiana.org
"Contendere, explorare, invenire, et non cedere."


Subject:	[novaroma] Martiana Felina
From:	Thomas Gangale <marcus@-------->
Date:	Mon, 15 Jan 2001 18:06:00 -0800


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: NR flags
From:	Jeff Smith <JSmithCSA@-------->
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 05:57:38 -0800 (PST)

Salve:

This is not about flags, but I've written you three
times about becoming a lictor, without answer. Are
you still pondering the request, or were all three
lost?

L Aetius Dalmaticus

--- cassius622@-------- wrote:
> --- In novaroma@--------, "Daniel Gabriele"
> <praetor@--------> wrote:
> > I also e-mail you about a flag, but you never
> responded.
>
> Salve,
>
> This is entirely possible. I get emails about flags
> fairly
> constantly. If inquiries come in during times when
> I'm busy, or even
> away for a few days, they can be lost in my "in"
> box.
>
> My sincere apologies to you, and anyone else out
> there that may not
> have gotten a response in regard to Nova Roma flags!
> Advice: If you
> don't hear from me in response to a first inquiry,
> please do email
> again. I'm not ignoring you intentionally. I can't
> think of the last
> time I declined to answer an email on purpose.
>
> However, I again point out that it is not necessary
> to Email and
> reserve each individual flag, or to check if the
> prices and shipping
> info on the website are current. The info in the
> Macellum section of
> the website IS current, and will continue to be so.
> Flags will be in
> stock on an ongoing basis. We will not run out. Even
> if you order a
> dozen flags at a time! (Here's hoping...)
>
> But there's an exception to every rule of course.
> Citizens living
> outside the US are very cordially invited to Email,
> since there is
> no "one rate" for overseas shipping. Postal rates
> vary wildly between
> say, Argentina and Zimbabwe! ;) For overseas orders
> I have to go to
> the post office and get an individal quote for the
> shipping costs.
>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
>
>

=====
LTC JEFFREY C. SMITH
HQ USAREUR/7A
CMR 420, BOX 2839
APO AE 09063-2839

"It's what you learn after you know it all that counts." --Jean Rostand

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Martiana Felina
From:	Jeff Smith <JSmithCSA@-------->
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 06:29:06 -0800 (PST)

Welcome!

L Aetius Dalmaticus

--- Thomas Gangale <marcus@--------> wrote:
> Salvete omnis,
>
> It is my privilege to announce the new member of
> Gens Martiana, Martiana
> Felina, citizen of Mediatlantica Provincia. Please
> join me in welcoming
> her to Nova Roma!
>
> Mars nos protegis, et ad Martem!
>
> Marcus Martianus Gangalius
> Legatus, Provincia California
> Lictor Curiata
> Paterfamilias, Gens Martiana
>
> http://www.martiana.org
> "Contendere, explorare, invenire, et non cedere."
>
>

=====
LTC JEFFREY C. SMITH
HQ USAREUR/7A
CMR 420, BOX 2839
APO AE 09063-2839

"It's what you learn after you know it all that counts." --Jean Rostand

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Last Call for Candidates
From:	gmvick32@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 08:37:10 -0700

"L. Cornelius Sulla" wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <gmvick32@-------->
> To: <novaroma@-------->
> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 9:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [novaroma] Last Call for Candidates
>
> > "L. Cornelius Sulla" wrote:
> >
> Thank you for that. :) The point I was trying to make was that the
> Tabularium is subdivided by Lexes, Edicts, Senatus Consultum, Priestly
> Decress and other things I have probably left out. All you need to do is to
> go into the Tabularium and click on the section that states Senatus
> Consultum and it will show (from the most recent) items that were passed by
> the Senate.
>
> And I am sure we all know that anything passed by the Senate is not "law"
> but a recommendation by the Senate. It is clearly stated as such in the
> Constitution of Nova Roma.

I'm well aware of all of this. However, this is not the way you were presenting
it in your arguments.

> > > Then in December, when Consul
> > > Fabius announced it would be in the agenda, you could have easily gone
> to
> > > the Tabularium to view the contents of the law!
> >
> > THIS is my point. Fabius never announced it would be on the agenda for
> the
> > election. I've taken liberty to supply the two official posts we received
> from
> > Fabius about the election in December (not the Senate call, the COMITIA
> > election). There's no mention in the archives that I can find to the
> effect
> > of....."and yes cives, you'll be voting on Lex Fabia such-and-such".
>
> I am sure there was a post..but without going to the archieves I cannot
> comment on that for certain since I am at work...I do see the post you
> published....and I remember seeing that..but I think I recall seeing another
> one that listed the law that he was putting up too.

Then please find it and post it. I searched exhaustively for it. I'm willing
to admit I was wrong in the face of evidence. But remember, as Rogator, I was
keenly looking for such things even then.

> If that is the case then you are correct, however, I think that even at this
> point Tribune Piscinus is not doing it the right way either. Considering
> the problems that are being pointed out by other Plebians about their
> inability to get into the list.

It is a problem if people aren't getting into the list quickly enough, agreed.
I am checking into who the Moderators are and if there is a way to help the
situation (not that I have any authority, mind you, just an interest in smooth
functioning).

> And the fact that the Comitia Plebis
> requires authorization.

What sort of authorization do you have in mind?

> And the fact that there will be barely 2 days of
> debate before the voting starts,

Hmm.....well that's the original point I was debating. Two days doesn't seem
like a lot. However, I still maintain he's giving a reasonably passable attempt
at adhering to the law on that particular matter, whereas in the recent past it
hasn't been followed at all.

> I also share the concerns of Senator M.
> Octavius. But, I share one other concern. If the laws are passed by the
> Comita Plebis are bound by all citizens, why not let all citizens vote on
> it, not just Plebians?

I think you mean if the laws passed by the Comitia Plebis are binding on all
citizens......and this is actually a fair question. It gets us back to the need
to define how Patricians and Plebians differ from each other in Nova Roma. It's
not enough to say it's a name distinction only, or that the difference is a few
century points.

HOWEVER, in the last election, we really didn't have a "Patrician vote here, and
Plebian vote there" arrangement. The Comitia TRIBUS Plebis was called to vote,
by both the Consul and the Tribune of the Plebs, alongside the Comitia
Centuriata. We had voting on the floated law inside the Comitia Centuriate,
i.e., by the centuries. Perhaps the real issue to focus on is WHEN it's
appropriate for a law to be passed by centuries, when by tribes, and what that
means. A vote by tribes is still a vote that includes Patricians and Plebians.
So a vote by the Comitia Tribus Plebis still lets Patricians vote on laws and
certain positions, I believe, but just not on specified offices where Patricians
aren't allowed to vote.

The issue then becomes, how equal are laws passed by the Comitia Centuriata and
Comitia Tribus Plebis, when set side by side? The internal organization by
century and by tribe is much different. In the Comitia Centuriata, the
Patricians are (allegedly) more powerful than the plebians. In the Comitia
Tribus Plebis, there is more equalization of any given individual's vote.
regardless of Patrician or Plebian status, unless one is in the urban tribes.

So, for those who truly want to maintain that pressing on the differences
between Patrician and Plebian is divisive to the evolution of Nova Roma, I'd say
your vehicle of choice for a law to be passed would be the Comitia Tribus
Plebis, with it understood that both Patrician and Plebian are voting on the
laws..

> But considering we still do not know what is being
> voted on, its no use discussing that.

Ah, but it is worth discussing, both from a theoretical standpoint and a
practical matter. I'll cede to you that two days isn't enough time for a
review. However, it isn't just this set of Tribunes that have grappled with
this issue.

I believe -- Patrician that I am -- that our Tribunes are doing THEIR BEST to
interpret and apply existing law. Have they got it "wrong"?? Perhaps they do.
They wouldn't be the first in Nova Roman history.

Livia Cornelia Aurelia


Subject:	[novaroma] Gens Aelia
From:	"Razenna " <razenna@-------->
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 15:28:19 -0000

Salvete, Quirites.

I wish to announce that gens Aelia has two new family members,
Tiberius Aelius Allectus Pertinax
et
Vibius Aelius Scipio,
both of Provinica California.
May they find Nova Roma rewarding and friendly.

Valete.
C. Aelius Ericius.
Paterfamilias gens Aelia.


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Big Provincia!
From:	"Marcos Boehme" <m_arminius@-------->
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 12:54:55 -0300

Salvete Quirites
Salve my friend Biggus D.., that is Quintus Sertorius.

In a certain edictum of Canada Orientalis, Pompeia requests some of the northern canadian islands. It seems that the map in inexact and your province will shrink a bit...

But... has anyone look at the map of the website for the provincias of South America? Have you noticed how Brasilia is, in fact bigger than everyone else combined, and not only a cartographic illusion as Canada Occidentalis? Please, dont tell me about Sarmatia. :)

Also, i want to inform that my interests remain with the areas within portuguese are spoken in South America, and no invasions will take place. By the way... is the French Guiana part of Gallia? Perhaps there are someone that speaks portuguese. Hmmm. :)

I noticed that Mediatlantica has surpassed the number of 100 cives! And Italia in now the most populous of the european provinces, with a stunning growth (and surpassed Brasilia, hm). Congratulations to all.

Marcus Arminius Maior
Pretor Provincia Brasilia

--
LucillaCornelia wrote:
>Ya' just gotta love a guy with a Big Provincia . . . heh heh heh.
>
>> That's one huge province!!!
>> Lucius Aetius Dalmaticus
>>
>> --- Quintus Sertorius <quintus-sertorius@-------->
>> wrote:
>> > 11 Jan 2001
>> >
>> > Salve All
>> >
>> > Has anyone look at the map on the wedsite for the
>> > Provincias in North America?... Have you noticed how
>> > Canada Occidentalis is almost as big as everyone
>> > else combined!!! heh heh..
>> >
>> > Quintus Sertorius
>> > Propraetor
>> > Canada Occidentalis
>> > quintus-sertorius@--------

Get your small business started at Lycos Small Business at http://www.lycos.com/business/mail.html


Subject:	[novaroma] Call for Candidates: Curator Differum
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 11:06:01 -0500

Salvete Omnes!

As stated earlier, the Comitia Populi Tributa is going to be called to order
soon to elect those few magistrates whose places are still vacant, as well
as to vote on some of the various proposals that have been discussed
recently (the exact start date is still being discussed, but must be before
the end of the month).

All those who are interested in running for, and legally able to hold, the
office of Curator Differum ("Overseer of the News"; the person in charge of
putting out the hardcopy Newsletter) are asked to contact the Consuls as
soon as possible (consuls@--------), and are encouraged to allow the
People to get to know them better through the campaign process.

(If there are no candidates for the office, the Senate has the power to
appoint a Curator Pro Tem until such time as suitable candidates present
themselves.)

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Last Call for Candidates
From:	labienus@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 10:16:47 US/Central

Tribunus Plebis T Labienus Lucio Cornelio Quiritibusque SPD

> I am sure there was a post..but without going to the archieves I cannot
> comment� on that for certain since I am at work...I do see the post you
> published....and I remember seeing that..but I think I recall seeing another
> one that listed the law that he was putting up too.

I do not recall such a post, and would be quite surprised if you could produce
one from the archives. In any case, the law requires "the content of the
rogationes (proposals to be voted upon)" to be posted as part of the edictum
that convenes the comitia. This clearly did not happen.

> If that is the case then you are correct, however, I think that even at this
> point Tribune Piscinus is not doing it the right way either.� Considering
> the problems that are being pointed out by other Plebians about their
> inability to get into the list.

These technical problems were unforeseen. Due to them, we shall post the
announcement that convenes the Comitia Plebis Tributa to both the CPT list and
this one. We do hope to eventually establish the CPT list as the main venue
for business in the plebeian comitia. As our population grows, the noise to
signal ratio of this list will also grow. Having a list devoted specifically
to the business of the comitia is, I believe, beneficial in the long run.

> And the fact that the Comitia Plebis requires authorization.

Would you be so kind as to clarify that statement?

> And the fact that there will be barely 2 days of debate before the voting
> starts, I also share the concerns of Senator M. Octavius.

This is the period defined by the law. As has been pointed out, there will be
substantially more time allotted to the cives to debate our proposed plebiscita
than was given to non-Senatores for the Fabian stalking lex. In any case, we
are still making some final adjustments to some of the plebiscita that will be
presented. Once these are finished, if there is time, we will publish a
preliminary statement of their content in order to provide another day or two
for debate.

> But, I share one other concern.� If the laws are passed by the
> Comita Plebis are bound by all citizens, why not let all citizens vote on
> it, not just Plebians?� But considering we still do not know what is being
> voted on, its no use discussing that.

Plebiscita have been binding upon all Roman cives for a very, very long time,
Luci Corneli. The fact that patricians can't vote in the Comitia Plebis
Tributa didn't stop our predecessors from promulgating legislation, and it
won't stop Cn Moravius and I.

The question does, however, point to a central tension in Nova Roma, based upon
the fact that we are attempting to create a fairly egalitarian and unified
state while also recreating a structure to which the Conflict of the Orders was
an essential element. But this is the subject of a much larger conversation
down the road.

Valete


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Last Call for Candidates
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 11:36:51 -0500

Salvete;

I just wanted to clear up a point of law.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmvick32@-------- [mailto:gmvick32@--------]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 10:37
>
> HOWEVER, in the last election, we really didn't have a "Patrician vote
here, and
> Plebian vote there" arrangement. The Comitia TRIBUS Plebis was called to
vote,
> by both the Consul and the Tribune of the Plebs, alongside the Comitia
> Centuriata. We had voting on the floated law inside the Comitia
Centuriate,
> i.e., by the centuries.

If I may, this isn't exactly how it worked. The calling of the Comitia
Centuriata by the Consuls is technically an entirely different matter from
the calling of the Comitia Plebis Tributa by the Tribunes. The fact that
during our last general election Patrician and Plebeian voters were able to
do all their voting in one place on the web site was through a bit of
technical legerdemaine; no Patricians were allowed to vote for items in the
Comitia Plebis Tributa vote, as such votes were immediately tagged invalid.
Anybody could vote in either of the other two assemblies.

The choice to have the proposed law voted upon in the Comitia Centuriata
(and thus voted by Centuries) was up to the Consuls. They could just have
easily called the vote in the Comitia Populi Tributa, where the vote would
have been tallied by tribe.

I think there might be some confusion here between the Comitia Populi
Tributa and the Comitia Plebis Tributa...

> Perhaps the real issue to focus on is WHEN it's
> appropriate for a law to be passed by centuries, when by tribes, and what
that
> means.

Yes, I agree (I'll post on this more abstract question later) but see my
next point...

> A vote by tribes is still a vote that includes Patricians and Plebians.
> So a vote by the Comitia Tribus Plebis still lets Patricians vote on laws
and
> certain positions, I believe, but just not on specified offices where
Patricians
> aren't allowed to vote.

And here's the rub. While both the Comitia Populi Tributa (Plebeians and
Patricians can vote) and the Comitia Plebis Tributa (Plebeians only can
vote) both vote according to tribe, they don't both automatically include
all Citizens. Patricians are completely excluded from any vote in the
Comitia Plebis Tributa, whether on a law, for a candidate, or in a court
case. All Citizens, though, may vote in the Comitia Populi Tributa. Don't
get confused by the fact they both have the word "Tributa" in the name; they
are very different.

(I should add that the Tribunis Plebis Tributa can only convene the Comitia
Plebis Tributa, which does not include the Patrician order, while the
Consules and Praetores convene the Comitia Populi Tributa.)

> The issue then becomes, how equal are laws passed by the Comitia
Centuriata and
> Comitia Tribus Plebis, when set side by side? The internal organization
by
> century and by tribe is much different. In the Comitia Centuriata, the
> Patricians are (allegedly) more powerful than the plebians. In the
Comitia
> Tribus Plebis, there is more equalization of any given individual's vote.
> regardless of Patrician or Plebian status, unless one is in the urban
tribes.
>
> So, for those who truly want to maintain that pressing on the differences
> between Patrician and Plebian is divisive to the evolution of Nova Roma,
I'd say
> your vehicle of choice for a law to be passed would be the Comitia Tribus
> Plebis, with it understood that both Patrician and Plebian are voting on
the
> laws..

While your basic point is sound (that voting in the tribal assemblies is
more equitable than voting in the centurial assemblies), you got one vital
detail wrong. The tribal assembly called by the Tribunes (the one that's
being discussed in this thread) does NOT include the Patricians. The tribal
assembly called by the Consuls and Praetores DOES include all citizens.

Personally, I intend to call the Comitia Populi for laws I'll be proposing.
Calling the Comitia Centuriata is, by design, a more difficult affair.

Hope that clears things up; I'll be happy to try to explain further, if
anyone still has questions.

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] The Comitia (was Last Call for Candidates)
From:	labienus@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 10:59:50 US/Central

T Labienus Quiritibus SPD

I feel I must comment upon this. The way the trina comitia (three assemblies)
work is somewhat arcane, and it is easy to get them mixed up as Livia Cornelia
seems to have done here.

> HOWEVER, in the last election, we really didn't have a "Patrician vote here,
> and Plebian vote there" arrangement.� The Comitia TRIBUS Plebis was called to
> vote, by both the Consul and the Tribune of the Plebs, alongside the
> Comitia Centuriata.
<amputatio>
> means.� A vote by tribes is still a vote that includes Patricians and
> Plebians. So a vote by the Comitia Tribus Plebis still lets Patricians vote
> on laws and certain positions, I believe, but just not on specified offices
> where Patricians aren't allowed to vote.

There are three sets of comitia; the Comitia Centuriata, the Comitia POPULI
Tributa, and the Comitia PLEBIS Tributa.

In the Comitia Centuriata, all cives are divided unequally into 193 centuries
based upon how many century points they have accumulated. All cives, whether
plebeian or patrician, vote in the Comitia Centuriata.

In the Comitia Populi Tributa, all new cives and all older cives who voted in
the last main December elections are divided relatively equally among
31 "rural" tribes, with old non-voting cives consigned to 4 "urban" tribes.
All cives, whether plebeian or patrician, vote in the Comitia Populi Tributa.

The Comitia Plebis Tributa is like the Comitia Populi Tributa, in that its
cives are divided among the 35 tribes in the same manner. However, patricians
are excluded from voting in it.

All three sets of comitia are empowered with electing magistrates, trying legal
cases, and enacting laws binding upon *all* cives. Therefore, though they
cannot vote upon plebiscita (laws passed in the Comitia Plebis Tributa),
patricians are still bound by them.

Valete


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Last Call for Candidates
From:	gmvick32@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 10:30:45 -0700

Salve:

You are indeed correct. The difference between the Comitia Populi and Comitia
Plebis were blurred enough in the last election as to make it entirely unclear
which was which in the election process, even to me from my vantage point.

I stand humbly corrected on that point. However, I then raise the point that,
while the arrangement might be obvious to the magistrates and archtects of the
various Comitia, it's not so readily transparent to the general cive -- when
even I, who is responsible and have read and applied the laws, can still get
confused. I think there's a greater educational issue here, and it's simply not
enough to point to the Tabularium. Not that you were, Germanicus, but others
were.

So my question for Germanicus is how can we better communicate the full scope of
the Comitia issues??? Especially, mind you, how do we handle this in the face
of a rapid influx of new cives? You realize this issue will come up every year,
and every time, because there are new cives constantly who won't know the
system.

Livia Cornelia Aurelia

Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote:

> Salvete;
>
> I just wanted to clear up a point of law.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: gmvick32@-------- [mailto:gmvick32@--------]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 10:37
> >
> > HOWEVER, in the last election, we really didn't have a "Patrician vote
> here, and
> > Plebian vote there" arrangement. The Comitia TRIBUS Plebis was called to
> vote,
> > by both the Consul and the Tribune of the Plebs, alongside the Comitia
> > Centuriata. We had voting on the floated law inside the Comitia
> Centuriate,
> > i.e., by the centuries.
>
> If I may, this isn't exactly how it worked. The calling of the Comitia
> Centuriata by the Consuls is technically an entirely different matter from
> the calling of the Comitia Plebis Tributa by the Tribunes. The fact that
> during our last general election Patrician and Plebeian voters were able to
> do all their voting in one place on the web site was through a bit of
> technical legerdemaine; no Patricians were allowed to vote for items in the
> Comitia Plebis Tributa vote, as such votes were immediately tagged invalid.
> Anybody could vote in either of the other two assemblies.
>
> The choice to have the proposed law voted upon in the Comitia Centuriata
> (and thus voted by Centuries) was up to the Consuls. They could just have
> easily called the vote in the Comitia Populi Tributa, where the vote would
> have been tallied by tribe.
>
> I think there might be some confusion here between the Comitia Populi
> Tributa and the Comitia Plebis Tributa...
>
> > Perhaps the real issue to focus on is WHEN it's
> > appropriate for a law to be passed by centuries, when by tribes, and what
> that
> > means.
>
> Yes, I agree (I'll post on this more abstract question later) but see my
> next point...
>
> > A vote by tribes is still a vote that includes Patricians and Plebians.
> > So a vote by the Comitia Tribus Plebis still lets Patricians vote on laws
> and
> > certain positions, I believe, but just not on specified offices where
> Patricians
> > aren't allowed to vote.
>
> And here's the rub. While both the Comitia Populi Tributa (Plebeians and
> Patricians can vote) and the Comitia Plebis Tributa (Plebeians only can
> vote) both vote according to tribe, they don't both automatically include
> all Citizens. Patricians are completely excluded from any vote in the
> Comitia Plebis Tributa, whether on a law, for a candidate, or in a court
> case. All Citizens, though, may vote in the Comitia Populi Tributa. Don't
> get confused by the fact they both have the word "Tributa" in the name; they
> are very different.
>
> (I should add that the Tribunis Plebis Tributa can only convene the Comitia
> Plebis Tributa, which does not include the Patrician order, while the
> Consules and Praetores convene the Comitia Populi Tributa.)
>
> > The issue then becomes, how equal are laws passed by the Comitia
> Centuriata and
> > Comitia Tribus Plebis, when set side by side? The internal organization
> by
> > century and by tribe is much different. In the Comitia Centuriata, the
> > Patricians are (allegedly) more powerful than the plebians. In the
> Comitia
> > Tribus Plebis, there is more equalization of any given individual's vote.
> > regardless of Patrician or Plebian status, unless one is in the urban
> tribes.
> >
> > So, for those who truly want to maintain that pressing on the differences
> > between Patrician and Plebian is divisive to the evolution of Nova Roma,
> I'd say
> > your vehicle of choice for a law to be passed would be the Comitia Tribus
> > Plebis, with it understood that both Patrician and Plebian are voting on
> the
> > laws..
>
> While your basic point is sound (that voting in the tribal assemblies is
> more equitable than voting in the centurial assemblies), you got one vital
> detail wrong. The tribal assembly called by the Tribunes (the one that's
> being discussed in this thread) does NOT include the Patricians. The tribal
> assembly called by the Consuls and Praetores DOES include all citizens.
>
> Personally, I intend to call the Comitia Populi for laws I'll be proposing.
> Calling the Comitia Centuriata is, by design, a more difficult affair.
>
> Hope that clears things up; I'll be happy to try to explain further, if
> anyone still has questions.
>
> Valete,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> Consul
>
> email: germanicus@--------
> AIM: Flavius Vedius
> www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Gens Aelia
From:	"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@-------->
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 10:51:24 -0600

16 Jan 2001

Salve

Congratulations on the new family members! Our Republic grows by increments.

Vale

Quintus Sertorius
Propraetor
Canada Occidentalis
quintus-sertorius@--------

Join the egroup for Canada Occidentalis
http://www.egroups.com/group/NR_CanOcc

----- Original Message -----
From: "Razenna " <razenna@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 9:28 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Gens Aelia

> Salvete, Quirites.
>
> I wish to announce that gens Aelia has two new family members,
> Tiberius Aelius Allectus Pertinax
> et
> Vibius Aelius Scipio,
> both of Provinica California.
> May they find Nova Roma rewarding and friendly.
>
> Valete.
> C. Aelius Ericius.
> Paterfamilias gens Aelia.
>
>
>
>
>


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Comitia Plebis and the People and AD
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla <alexious@-------->
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 08:11:00 -0800

gmvick32@-------- wrote:

> "L. Cornelius Sulla" wrote:
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <gmvick32@-------->
> > To: <novaroma@-------->
> > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 9:53 PM
> > Subject: Re: [novaroma] Last Call for Candidates
> >
> > > "L. Cornelius Sulla" wrote:
> > >
> > Thank you for that. :) The point I was trying to make was that the
> > Tabularium is subdivided by Lexes, Edicts, Senatus Consultum, Priestly
> > Decress and other things I have probably left out. All you need to do is to
> > go into the Tabularium and click on the section that states Senatus
> > Consultum and it will show (from the most recent) items that were passed by
> > the Senate.
> >
> > And I am sure we all know that anything passed by the Senate is not "law"
> > but a recommendation by the Senate. It is clearly stated as such in the
> > Constitution of Nova Roma.
>
> I'm well aware of all of this. However, this is not the way you were presenting
> it in your arguments.
>

My argument before stated that the Tabularium included ALL documents regarding legal
information. Senatus Consultum being apart of it! Since, according to the
Constitution a Senatus Consultum does override an edict according to the Supremacy
Clause of the Constitution. A clause that I take great pleasure in promoting since
it was not listed in the first constitution of Nova Roma!

>
> > > > Then in December, when Consul
> > > > Fabius announced it would be in the agenda, you could have easily gone
> > to
> > > > the Tabularium to view the contents of the law!
> > >
> > > THIS is my point. Fabius never announced it would be on the agenda for
> > the
> > > election. I've taken liberty to supply the two official posts we received
> > from
> > > Fabius about the election in December (not the Senate call, the COMITIA
> > > election). There's no mention in the archives that I can find to the
> > effect
> > > of....."and yes cives, you'll be voting on Lex Fabia such-and-such".
> >
> > I am sure there was a post..but without going to the archieves I cannot
> > comment on that for certain since I am at work...I do see the post you
> > published....and I remember seeing that..but I think I recall seeing another
> > one that listed the law that he was putting up too.
>
> Then please find it and post it. I searched exhaustively for it. I'm willing
> to admit I was wrong in the face of evidence. But remember, as Rogator, I was
> keenly looking for such things even then.
>

I will check on it.

>
> > If that is the case then you are correct, however, I think that even at this
> > point Tribune Piscinus is not doing it the right way either. Considering
> > the problems that are being pointed out by other Plebians about their
> > inability to get into the list.
>
> It is a problem if people aren't getting into the list quickly enough, agreed.
> I am checking into who the Moderators are and if there is a way to help the
> situation (not that I have any authority, mind you, just an interest in smooth
> functioning).
>

Well situation such as when a Senator cannot even get on the list...and a Plebian
who has waited for authorization in a supposedly OPEN forum is unacceptable.
Considering that there is supposed to be an election in 3 days! But I will get to
this point later on!

>
> > And the fact that the Comitia Plebis
> > requires authorization.
>
> What sort of authorization do you have in mind?
>

Well considering that they said it is an open list, there shouldn't be
authorization. Which was the point I was coming to above! For that matter, since
the laws are binding on both the Patricians and Plebeians why don't they allow all
the People vote on it. One of the main cornerstones of the AD platform is the
People. Well Patricians are part of the People. We should have a say since it is
just as easy to summon the Comitia Populi as it is to summon the Comita Plebis!

>
> > And the fact that there will be barely 2 days of
> > debate before the voting starts,
>
> Hmm.....well that's the original point I was debating. Two days doesn't seem
> like a lot. However, I still maintain he's giving a reasonably passable attempt
> at adhering to the law on that particular matter, whereas in the recent past it
> hasn't been followed at all.
>

It isn't alot. I know that when I was Consul along with my noble colleague Decius
Iunius Palladius Invictus, I submitted potential Lexes way before the Comitia was
summoned. So it was followed in the past just it was before you were a citizen of
NR.

> > I also share the concerns of Senator M.
> > Octavius. But, I share one other concern. If the laws are passed by the
> > Comita Plebis are bound by all citizens, why not let all citizens vote on
> > it, not just Plebians?
>
> I think you mean if the laws passed by the Comitia Plebis are binding on all
> citizens......and this is actually a fair question. It gets us back to the need
> to define how Patricians and Plebians differ from each other in Nova Roma. It's
> not enough to say it's a name distinction only, or that the difference is a few
> century points.
>

The Century point that favors the Patrician is only like 3 points. Not enough to
warrant any change in Century Class for most citizens. The Plebeians get the
Tribune of the Plebs position that is exclusively theirs. If you ask my opinion,
the Plebs get the better deal, the Tribune of the Plebs is a very powerful position
and 3 points do not make up for that!

>
> HOWEVER, in the last election, we really didn't have a "Patrician vote here, and
> Plebian vote there" arrangement. The Comitia TRIBUS Plebis was called to vote,
> by both the Consul and the Tribune of the Plebs, alongside the Comitia
> Centuriata. We had voting on the floated law inside the Comitia Centuriate,
> i.e., by the centuries. Perhaps the real issue to focus on is WHEN it's
> appropriate for a law to be passed by centuries, when by tribes, and what that
> means. A vote by tribes is still a vote that includes Patricians and Plebians.
> So a vote by the Comitia Tribus Plebis still lets Patricians vote on laws and
> certain positions, I believe, but just not on specified offices where Patricians
> aren't allowed to vote.
>

Actually we did...it was depended on the voter code one submitted. I was unable to
vote for the Tribune of the Plebs or Plebian Aedile.

>
> The issue then becomes, how equal are laws passed by the Comitia Centuriata and
> Comitia Tribus Plebis, when set side by side? The internal organization by
> century and by tribe is much different. In the Comitia Centuriata, the
> Patricians are (allegedly) more powerful than the plebians. In the Comitia
> Tribus Plebis, there is more equalization of any given individual's vote.
> regardless of Patrician or Plebian status, unless one is in the urban tribes.
>

Nope that isn't the case. As I responded to Tribune Piscinus, that is only the case
now because NR is 3 years old....and during the first year most of NR was
Patrician. In another 3 years that will equal itself to a degree when more people
hold offices and have a longer length of citizenship. You might want to check out
that respond I did sent on the NR main list. The Comitia Centuriata is weighted
based on length of citizenship and offices one has served. As I said above, the 3
points that the Patricians gain is not enough to boost a Patrician from one Class to
the other.

>
> So, for those who truly want to maintain that pressing on the differences
> between Patrician and Plebian is divisive to the evolution of Nova Roma, I'd say
> your vehicle of choice for a law to be passed would be the Comitia Tribus
> Plebis, with it understood that both Patrician and Plebian are voting on the
> laws..
>

But, in the Comitia Plebis, the Patricians do not have the ability to vote in it at
all. Only the Plebeians have that ability. My basis is that the AD kept saying in
the election that they believed the People were sovereign. Well why is it that the
People are not being summoned? Only the Plebeians, since the laws passed in that
are enforceable on all citizens of Nova Roma, I think this is violating their own
amici dignitas charter statement!

>
> > But considering we still do not know what is being
> > voted on, its no use discussing that.
>
> Ah, but it is worth discussing, both from a theoretical standpoint and a
> practical matter. I'll cede to you that two days isn't enough time for a
> review. However, it isn't just this set of Tribunes that have grappled with
> this issue.
>

That is the entire problem. They (Our Tribunes) have summoned the body, without
having grappled with this issue!!! Kinda like putting the cart before the horse in
my opinion!

>
> I believe -- Patrician that I am -- that our Tribunes are doing THEIR BEST to
> interpret and apply existing law. Have they got it "wrong"?? Perhaps they do.
> They wouldn't be the first in Nova Roman history.
>

I don't know that. I think they have it wrong. When I was Consul I posted
everything I could prior to the election so that the People will be able to make an
informed decision. At this rate, two days is not enough time to make an informed
decision. But then you already know this. :)

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor of Nova Roma

>
> Livia Cornelia Aurelia


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Last Call for Candidates
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 13:01:54 -0500

Salve;

> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmvick32@-------- [mailto:gmvick32@--------]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 12:31
>
> So my question for Germanicus is how can we better communicate the full
scope of
> the Comitia issues???

Well, I can't speak for the Tribunes of the Plebs, who will be calling the
Comitia Plebis Tributa to order soon, but thusfar we've already seen some of
the methodology my Consular colleague and I intend to employ vis-a-vis
various issues that may be voted on.

1) Raise broad issues for discussion, try to narrow them down to specific
ideas, and try to build consensus (or at least enough consensus on a
particular approach) to justify calling a vote. This can last weeks.

2) Using the discussions here on the main list, formulate (either ourselves,
or get interested parties to do so) draft copies of the text of proposed
legislation (Marcus Cassius and I are in this phase right now).

3) Present the draft copies of such proposed legislation here on the list.
The exact wording of the proposals can thus be bandied about, and any
potential deficiencies or typos corrected BEFORE the formal vote is called
(since you can't change a proposed law once the vote has been called) for a
week or more, depending on the response. Maybe some items will be redrafted
and re-submitted for discussion. I think this makes infinitely more sense
than only discussing outlines or summaries of proposed legislation, since
one flubbed detail in the actual bill can sink it, when having this sort of
pre-review can hopefully catch such things. (Hopefully this phase will start
in the next day or so.)

4) Call the vote with finalized versions of the proposed legislation, based
on the discussions held in phase 3, a week (or more, depending) after.

Now, of course, this isn't a hard-and-fast rule; there will always be
exceptions, it's sometimes going to be a fluid and non-linear process (one
reason it's better to have this sort of thing as a convention, rather than
enshrined in law), and some things are just too dirt simple to even have to
go through such a process (correcting typographical or grammatical errors in
already-existing legislation, for example). But it hopefully gives a rough
outline of the process we intend to follow. I would hope that the Tribunes
of the Plebs would want to follow a similar course, but such things are
completely within their purview.

> Especially, mind you, how do we handle this in the face
> of a rapid influx of new cives? You realize this issue will come up every
year,
> and every time, because there are new cives constantly who won't know the
> system.

This, I think, is an issue we all need to address. Certainly it'd be
appropriate to have a sort of primer on the system in late fall, to gear
people up for the election process (Fortunatus' recent post outlining the
three Comitiae was excellent, for example). As far as ongoing education, I
think we can all agree it'd be tedious to have to go through such
explanations every month as someone realizes they don't understand the
difference between a tribe and a century.

Perhaps we should expand the FAQ on the website to include such questions?
It certainly would seem to be justified...

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org


Subject:	[novaroma] The New Guy...
From:	Syphax the venaliccii <syphax_venaliccii@-------->
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 10:23:50 -0800 (PST)

Salve fellow New Romans! I am Publius Gramatinicus
Albinus! I wish the best of everything for everyone,
and hope you all well.

pax et lux,
Publius Gramatinicus Albinus

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/


Subject:	[novaroma] ATTN [Religio Romana] ante diem XVII Kalendas Februarias (January 16th)
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <amg@-------->
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 19:09:41 -0000

Salvete omnes

This is one of the dies comitiales (C), when assemblies of citizens can vote
on political or criminal matters.

Today is the aniversary of the dedication of the old Temple of Concordia,
which stands below the Capitoline Hill, near the Tabularium. This temple was
dedicated in fulfillment of a vow made by Furius Camillus in 367 BCE, upon
the end of the revolt that opposed plebeians and patricians. This temple was
rebuilt by Tiberius in 10 AD out of the spoils of defeated Germany.

The month of Ianuarius is sacred to Ianus.

Valete bene in pace deorum
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex


Subject:	[novaroma] ATTN [Religio Romana] ante diem XVII Kalendas Februarias (January 16th)
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <amg@-------->
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 19:09:41 -0000


Subject:	[novaroma] Plebeians and Patricians (was RE: Last Call for Candidates)
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 14:49:14 -0500

Salvete;

> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmvick32@-------- [mailto:gmvick32@--------]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 10:37
>
> The issue then becomes, how equal are laws passed by the Comitia
Centuriata and
> Comitia Tribus Plebis, when set side by side? The internal organization
by
> century and by tribe is much different. In the Comitia Centuriata, the
> Patricians are (allegedly) more powerful than the plebians.

I think this is a mostly accurate observation, although the implication is
perhaps unfair. Any inequity has nothing to do with the 5 extra Century
Points that Patricians gain (more than half of which is easily made up by
simply joining the equestrian order...), or by any sinister conspiracy on
the part of the Patricians. It's a simple matter of mathematics; the people
with the most "voice" in the centuries are those that have been here the
longest, and who have participated the most actively in public life. The
patrician gentes are, by definition, those families which have been in Nova
Roma the longest (with a few exceptions). Does it surprise anyone that given
those two facts, there is going to be some overlap between patrician status
and having a lot of century points? It shouldn't! Heck, when Nova Roma was
first founded, almost all the magistrates were patricians, because we didn't
even HAVE plebeian gentes in our very beginning (with one exception).

The distinction between plebeian and patrician is a necessary anachronism,
put in place in Nova Roma for the simple reason that we needed Tribunes of
the Plebs and Plebeian Aediles, and to have them we needed to have
Plebeians, and having Plebeians without Patricians didn't make a whole lot
of sense. While we have adopted many of the Plebeian institutions (needed in
Roma Antiqua to redress real and sometimes drastic inequalities between the
orders) to our own needs, in Nova Roma we are all Citizens, first and
foremost.

However, as we endure, as our population grows, and as more and more of our
active citizens come from the plebeian order, the power of plebeians and
patricians is moving towards relative equality; it can't help but do so.
Just look at the number of plebeians who occupy places in the central
government, the Senate, and the provincial governments! The process of the
plebeians gaining Century points and thus more "voice" in the Comitia
Centuriata is one which is going on even as we speak, and will continue
whether anyone likes it or not. In a few years, that extra year of
Citizenship, and that extra magistracy or two that give some patricians an
edge over some plebeians in Century Points right now, won't even be worth
mentioning.

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] The Comitia of the Plebes
From:	sfp55@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 14:55:03 EST

In a message dated 1/16/2001 9:11:20 AM Pacific Standard Time,
labienus@-------- writes:

<< All three sets of comitia are empowered with electing magistrates, trying
legal
cases, and enacting laws binding upon *all* cives. Therefore, though they
cannot vote upon plebiscita (laws passed in the Comitia Plebis Tributa),
patricians are still bound by them.
>>
Salvete!
Which was why the system was devised in the first place. It was to limit the
power of the patricians within reason. Otherwise the Republic becomes a true
oligarchy.
I don't see this happening in our reconstruction. However in the old days a
"plebi scita" had to approved by the Senate. This was not as daunting as it
appeared
By 337, the Senate had allowed Plebes into their ranks, they were called
conscripti "enrolled" compared to the patrician "patres."
By 287 the Hortensian lex had given the tribunes the power they enjoy in our
Rome today.
The Senate restriction had been lifted, but the patricians got around this,
by buying Tribunes and getting them to pass plebiscita favorable to them. Or
killing the Tribune that passed the plebiscite in the first place (ouch)!
That removed the plebiscite.
Now citizens, if we join together, which many of these latest posts seem to
advocating, we lose what we are attempting to do. Reconstruct a working
model of the Roman Republic, it's government, its religion, it's community.
I see nothing wrong with what the Tribunes are doing here. They are within
their rights to call the assembly and place plebiscita before you. If you
don't like these, vote them down. That is your right as plebeians
Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus
Proconsul


Subject:	[novaroma] Who should vote, and where? (was RE: Last Call for Candidates)
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 15:09:15 -0500

Salvete, Omnes;

I am very glad this topic has come up, as it does indeed form a vital
question about our political procedure, embodying the question of power vs.
propriety, and law vs. custom. At the risk of combining two replies into one
(with lots of snippage on both for clarity)...

The basic question stems from the Roman system of three Assemblies, one of
which represents only a fraction (albeit a large fraction) of the people,
and which are organized in two different ways (one relatively equal and one
weighted towards cives with a record of public service and longevity).
Essentially; which Assembly should vote on which things? This applies
primarily to the passage of legislation, since magistrates being elected by
different assemblies is pretty clear-cut. There are in fact two different
questions rolled into this larger issue:

1) When should the Plebs alone vote on issues that impact all of the
Citizens?
2) When should voters be called according to tribes, as opposed to
centuries?.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: labienus@-------- [mailto:labienus@--------]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 05:17
>
> Plebiscita have been binding upon all Roman cives for a very, very long
time,
> Luci Corneli. The fact that patricians can't vote in the Comitia Plebis
> Tributa didn't stop our predecessors from promulgating legislation, and it
> won't stop Cn Moravius and I.

While certainly no one would deny that the Tribunes of the Plebs have the
power to call the Plebeian order to vote on matters which effect us all, and
that this was done historically, I would question the legitimacy of doing so
when a meeting of the full Citizenry was not at least given a chance to
voice its opinion on a given subject. To have a power to do a thing does not
mean one has to do a thing, or that to do that thing is morally right.

Nonetheless, the Tribunes of the Plebs, and the Comitia Plebis Tributa, have
a definite role in our political landscape. In a broad sense, the Tribunes
are the final check on any magistrate, including the Consuls, abusing their
power. In the legislative realm, the Comitia Plebis Tributa is the tool of
the Tribunes in checking abuses by other magistrates. It should not be
called just to flex the Tribunes' muscles, or to make them feel important,
or give them something to do (please note I am NOT saying this is what is
happening now). In an ideal world, the Tribunes should have almost nothing
to do all year; for the Tribunes to act most often implies that some abuse
is taking place.

Short of some such abuse in the legislative realm, it strikes me that to
have a majority of Citizens (the Plebeians) impose their will on a minority
(the Patricians) with no voice is the height of injustice. Certainly, in the
case of a malicious Patrician Consul shoving a self-serving and
Plebeian-bashing lex through the Comitia Centuriata, the Tribunes have the
moral authority (indeed, the responsibility!) to act. But in terms of
day-to-day legislation, with Consuls who are attentive and responsive to the
People, such actions are simply unneccessary.

To my mind, it is always preferable, if possible, for the entire population
to vote on an issue that effects the entire population. That is, the Comitia
Plebis Tributa should only be called to redress some gross legislative
injustice, and then only if absolutely necessary. To do otherwise is to
impose the Tyranny of the Majority, and I say _all_ the People's voices
should be heard, plebeian and patrician.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: gmvick32@-------- [mailto:gmvick32@--------]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 10:37

> Perhaps the real issue to focus on is WHEN it's
> appropriate for a law to be passed by centuries, when by tribes, and what
that
> means. A vote by tribes is still a vote that includes Patricians and
Plebians.

> The issue then becomes, how equal are laws passed by the Comitia
Centuriata and
> Comitia Tribus Plebis, when set side by side? The internal organization
by
> century and by tribe is much different.

> In the Comitia
> Tribus Plebis, there is more equalization of any given individual's vote.
> regardless of Patrician or Plebian status, unless one is in the urban
tribes.

> So, for those who truly want to maintain that pressing on the differences
> between Patrician and Plebian is divisive to the evolution of Nova Roma,
I'd say
> your vehicle of choice for a law to be passed would be the Comitia Tribus
> Plebis, with it understood that both Patrician and Plebian are voting on
the
> laws..

Bearing in mind that the confusion of the Comitiae has been cleared up in
another post, your point is well taken. I think that the Comitia Populi
Tributa (which is assembled by tribes and in which all citizens may vote)
should be our preferred method of enacting legislation, and I intend to make
it so during my tenure as Consul. To organize a vote according to the tribes
is certainly the most equitable way of doing things, and in terms of most
legislation, we should always strive for equitability.

That being said, it should not be forgotten that the inequality of the
Centuries is based solely on longevity and participation in public life. Are
there times when we want to give more weight to the views of those who have
the most experience in Nova Roma? Of course; I can foresee rare occasions
when select pieces of legislation would be more appropriately called to the
attention of the People meeting in their respective Centuries; when the
voice of Experience should rightly be given more weight. However, it should
be remembered that the process for voting in the Comitia Centuriata is more
involved and intricate for a reason; it is by nature a more conservative and
deliberative body, and I think such deliberation is appropriate when voting
on truly monumental pieces of legislation (but not on less vital ones).

For day-to-day affairs, the Comitia Populi Tributa, with all Citizens
participating and voting in (relatively) equal tribes, is the sensible forum
for us to vote on 99% of the issues that are before us today. It represents
a fair representation of the Citizenry, both in terms of inclusion and in
terms of relative representation. I intend to make good use of it in the
coming year, and hope that the Tribunes will allow it to do its job.

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] The Comitia of the Plebes
From:	gmvick32@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 13:27:12 -0700

I find myself wholeheartedly in support of conclusions of our proconsul here, and
felt the particular situation warrants a statement as such.

Livia Cornelia Aurelia

sfp55@-------- wrote:

> In a message dated 1/16/2001 9:11:20 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> labienus@-------- writes:
>
> << All three sets of comitia are empowered with electing magistrates, trying
> legal
> cases, and enacting laws binding upon *all* cives. Therefore, though they
> cannot vote upon plebiscita (laws passed in the Comitia Plebis Tributa),
> patricians are still bound by them.
> >>
> Salvete!
> Which was why the system was devised in the first place. It was to limit the
> power of the patricians within reason. Otherwise the Republic becomes a true
> oligarchy.
> I don't see this happening in our reconstruction. However in the old days a
> "plebi scita" had to approved by the Senate. This was not as daunting as it
> appeared
> By 337, the Senate had allowed Plebes into their ranks, they were called
> conscripti "enrolled" compared to the patrician "patres."
> By 287 the Hortensian lex had given the tribunes the power they enjoy in our
> Rome today.
> The Senate restriction had been lifted, but the patricians got around this,
> by buying Tribunes and getting them to pass plebiscita favorable to them. Or
> killing the Tribune that passed the plebiscite in the first place (ouch)!
> That removed the plebiscite.
> Now citizens, if we join together, which many of these latest posts seem to
> advocating, we lose what we are attempting to do. Reconstruct a working
> model of the Roman Republic, it's government, its religion, it's community.
> I see nothing wrong with what the Tribunes are doing here. They are within
> their rights to call the assembly and place plebiscita before you. If you
> don't like these, vote them down. That is your right as plebeians
> Valete
> Q. Fabius Maximus
> Proconsul
>
>


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Comitia Plebis and the People and AD
From:	labienus@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 14:41:01 US/Central

Tribunus Plebis T Labienus L Cornelio Quiritibusque SPD

> Well situation such as when a Senator cannot even get on the list...and a
> Plebian who has waited for authorization in a supposedly OPEN forum is
> unacceptable. Considering that there is supposed to be an election in 3
> days!� But I will get to this point later on!

As I stated in another message, the difficulties with people signing on to the
CPT list are an unforeseen problem. We are therefore going to submit the
agenda for the coming vote to both the CPT list and this one.

> Well considering that they said it is an open list, there shouldn't be
> authorization.

This is true. See above.

> Which was the point I was coming to above!� For that matter, since
> the laws are binding on both the Patricians and Plebeians why don't they
> allow all the People vote on it.� One of the main cornerstones of the AD
> platform is the People.

The Amici Dignitatis is a mostly neutral group dedicated to better Nova Roman
government through debate. The fact that both tribuni plebis have signed its
founding statement does nothing to alter the fact that, as tribuni plebis, we
have the right and authority to promulgate legislation through the Comitia
Plebis Tributa.

> Well Patricians are part of the People.� We should have a say since it
> is just as easy to summon the Comitia Populi as it is to summon the Comita
> Plebis!

Not for us tribuni. The only comitia we can summon are the Comitia Plebis
Tributa, as you well know.

> The Century point that favors the Patrician is only like 3 points.� Not
> enough to warrant any change in Century Class for most citizens.

Actually, Luci Corneli, patricians receive precisely 5 more points than
plebeians.

> The Plebeians get the Tribune of the Plebs position that is exclusively
> theirs.� If you ask my opinion, the Plebs get the better deal, the Tribune
> of the Plebs is a very powerful position and 3 points do not make up for
> that!

I would remind the censor that the tribunate is substantially weaker in Nova
Roma than it was in the latter days of the antique Respublica. The consules
and praetores of Nova Roma are much more powerful than the tribuni.

The *real* downside of being patrician is the inability to vote in the Comitia
Plebis Tributa, despite the fact that plebiscita are binding upon the whole
populace. In ancient times, this was balanced by the fact that the patricians
had immense power and influence. Nova Roma's patricians do not, in large part,
have that defense. This was an unforeseen consequence of the way the Founders
established the orders.

Again, I say that the central tension within Nova Roma is the fact that we
attempt to balance an egalitarian society with a political structure that is
based almost entirely upon the Conflict of the Orders. The ongoing debate over
how to solve this problem has been a subtext of almost every other debate
throughout our short history. It is not something that can be solved quickly
or easily.

> Nope that isn't the case.� As I responded to Tribune Piscinus, that is only
> the case now because NR is 3 years old....and during the first year most of
> NR was Patrician.

Actually, the 5 extra points a new patrician receives is generally enough to
drive him or her up from Class V to Class IV (at least it was last year when I
had access to such data), considering our very large influx of new cives. This
is quite advantageous. However, assuming plebeian cives are continuously and
increasingly active in the Respublica, then the top classes will be more
heavily populated by plebeians, and the centuries will come to resemble the
meritocracy the Founders seem to have wanted them to be, as opposed to the
oligarchy it arguably resembles now.

> But, in the Comitia Plebis, the Patricians do not have the ability to vote in
> it at all.� Only the Plebeians have that ability.� My basis is that the AD
> kept saying in the election that they believed the People were sovereign.�
> Well why is it that the People are not being summoned?� Only the Plebeians,
> since the laws passed in that are enforceable on all citizens of Nova Roma, I
> think this is violating their own amici dignitas charter statement!

So, you would have the tribuni plebis remain inactive, serving only as
guardians of the constitution? This is not the ancient way, and it will not
happen on my watch.

> I don't know that.� I think they have it wrong.� When I was Consul I posted
> everything I could prior to the election so that the People will be able to
> make an informed decision.� At this rate, two days is not enough time to make
> an informed decision.� But then you already know this. :)

We do not have it wrong. We are complying with the letter and spirit of the
laws of Nova Roma. The two days you mention is a false deadline. The people
have substantially longer than two days in which to debate the proposals put
before them, as debate extends throughout the voting period, which must last at
least ten days.

Valete


Subject:	[novaroma] Canada Orientalis: Provincial Edictum III
From:	"Pompeia Cornelia" <scriba_forum@-------->
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 01:36:38 -0000

15 Jan. 2754 AUC

CANADA ORIENTALIS - NOVA ROMA
PROVINCIAL EDICTUM III

AFFILIATION WITH LIMES CO-OPERATION

This Edictum is to serve as an official notice that the Canada Orientalis
Propraetrix and Legatae are hereby in membership of the Limes co-operation
of Nova Roma Provincial Propraetors and their legatae.

This decision is made after a careful examination and contemplation of the
mandates of the Limes co-operation by the Propraetrix and Legatus of Canada
Orientalis Provincia.

In service of the res Publica Nova Roma:
Pompeia Cornelia Strabo
Propraetrix, Canada Orientalis
Nova Roma.
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.


Subject:	[novaroma] Announcement of Sodalitas Militarium newsletter publication
From:	gmvick32@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 14:17:35 -0700

This is to announce that the first Sodalitas Militarium
newsletter has been published to the list section of the
Sodalitas Militarium e-groups list and is available for
Sodalitas Militarium members to review. The newsletter will
also be made available for public viewing on a website
shortly.

Livia Cornelia Aurelia
SodMil Newsletter Editor (new hat)


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Martiana Felina
From:	SyanneRose@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 16:09:43 EST

Salve,

Welcome, Martiana Felina, hopefully your stay in Nova Roma will be
wonderfilled.

Ave,
Aeternia


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: NR flags
From:	SyanneRose@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 16:14:09 EST

Salve Dalmaticus,

Likewise, I also sent my request of Lictorship to the Junior Consul, and also
no reply.
But, just recently I saw a post concerning where a citizen could apply for
Lictorship.
Whether, Consul Cassius posted it or another Pontiff posted it, that I cannot
remember, I will look it up through old mail if it will help your situation.

Vale,
Aeternia


Subject:	[novaroma] Amer. Austroccidentalis Summer Roman Retreat
From:	gmvick32@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 14:36:30 -0700

Salvete, Quirities!

This is to announce that Provincia America Austroccidentalis
is currently planning a Roman Retreat for the summer of
2001, targeted for mid-July.

In keeping with the tradition of the Romans to retire to the
countryside in order to escape the heat of summer, we will
be retreating to the mountains for a weekend getaway.
Included in the festivities will be a Roman cooking
experiment and feast (better bonding through cookery), hikes
in the woods, a tour of the Colorado backcountry, and
.....R&R time to chat and relax.

It will also be the pleasure of the governor to preceed the
retreat with a hosted dinner and historical tour of downtown
Denver.

Any and all Nova Romans are welcome to attend this event!!
We are still working out the details, but if you're
interested please contact me ASAP.

This event is sponsored by the Propraetrix Livia Cornelia
Aurelia, and is the brainchild of it's co-coordinator, Iulia
Cornelia Gaia.

Valete,
Livia Cornelia Aurelia
Propraetrix, America Austroccidentalis


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Who should vote, and where? (was RE: Last Call for Candidates)
From:	sfp55@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 16:40:26 EST

In a message dated 1/16/2001 12:26:29 PM Pacific Standard Time,
germanicus@-------- writes:

<< For day-to-day affairs, the Comitia Populi Tributa, with all Citizens
participating and voting in (relatively) equal tribes, is the sensible forum
for us to vote on 99% of the issues that are before us today. It represents
a fair representation of the Citizenry, both in terms of inclusion and in
terms of relative representation. >>
Salvete
The Comitia Populi Tributa became more popular for this in the later
Republic, for the reasons you mentioned.
Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus.


Subject:	[novaroma] Governor of America Borreoccidentalis
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 16:37:50 -0500

Salvete, Omnes!

The question of the governorship of the America Boreoccidentalis provincia
has come up in the Senate. If any cives within the provincia (the states of
Washington, Oregon, and Idaho) would be interested in being considered for
the position, please send a letter stating your intentions, qualifications,
etc. to the Senate (senate@--------) at this time.

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Amer. Austroccidentalis Summer Roman Retreat
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 16:49:20 -0500

Salvete;

I just wanted to congratulate Livia Cornelia, Iulia Cornelia, and all the
Cives of America Austroccidentalis provincia on this wonderful news. The
more such real-world events we have, I'm convinced the stronger and better
off we'll be. Well done!

Now... how about you other governors??? ;-)

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org


Subject:	[novaroma] Newsletter of the Sodalitas Militarium, Volume 1, Issue 1
From:	jmath669642reng@--------
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 17:14:32 -0500 (EST)

Salvete, Nova Roman Citizens Interested In the Military Aspects of Nova
Roma;

Friends and Countrymen;

I take great pride in presenting to you the first of the proposed Annual
Sodalitas Militarium Newsletters. I offer this publication free to
anyone wishing to have it sent to them by internet E-Mail. It is 25
pages long and has 1 1/2 pages of colored panels, so I wish to insure
that no-one is surprised by the volume being sent to thier computer.
Since I have a limited storage in my Webtv, I am sensitive to that
aspect of this medium. Should anyone be interested in a hard copy, I
will be pleased to have it reproduced at cost, and sent to you plus
postage (13 double-sided pages). I will need your mailing address in
order to complete this activity--please allow four to six weeks for
delivery.

The Sodalitas Mlitarium will also make arrangements to put this first
issue on the Sodalitas Militarium Website, but that may take a longer
period of time.

I wish to thank the Sodalitas Militarium Staff for thier excellent
response to my request to develop and publish this document for the
people of Nova Roma in the first mnth of this year. In particular, I
wish to thnk the Editor and Producer: Livia Cornelia Aurelia and her
acting Retarius Caius Flavius Diocletianus for thier efforts in putting
this document together--Good Work and Well Done!!!!!!

I also wish to commend those Sodalitas Militarium Members who dropped
their immediate activities at my request and produced the excellent
offerings in this issue:

--"Daily March of the Roman Army of Four Legions", by Quintus Sertoris,
Adiutoris Cornicularius Praefectus, Sodalitas Militarium;

--"New Evidence For The Roman Quay at Londinium". by Marcus Audens;

--"Roman Military Camps", By Quintus Sertorius;

--"Top Ten Things To Do To Start A Legion Of Your Own", By Aurelius
Tiberius Ronanus, Cornicularius Prefectus Sodalitas Militarium, and
Commander VIth Legio Victrix;

--"The Roman Wore White", by Quintus Claudius Lucentius Severus
Britannicus;

--"A Commemorative Slab of Legio VIII Augusta from Hoddom", by Quintus
Britannicus;

--"Commentary: Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus, Roman General, Et Republican
Statesman", by Pompeia Cornelia Strabo, Legata Navales et Scriba
Praefectus, Sodalitas Miltarium;

--"Cartography Reports From The Field", by Livia Cornelia Aurelia.

Your comments on these articles, if sent to me, will be forwarded to the
Mlitarium Talk List for discussion and will be included in the next
issue of the Newsletter. Although I have indicated our plans for an
Annual Newsletter, if such a publication can be put together sooner,
then it will be done. In closing, I dedicate this First Volume, First
Issue to the Citizens of Nova Roma. May this Micronation grow stronger
with every passing year!!!

Valete, Very Respectfully;
Marcus Audens
Praefectus, Sodalitas Militarium

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary


Subject:	[novaroma] Kyrene news. (it's good this time, really)
From:	Kyrene Ariadne <kyrene@-------->
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 14:18:56 -0800 (PST)

Once again, forgive the crossposting.

Hello, Xairete, Salvete, et cetera.

I should be back to normal within the next 1-2 weeks. I just got out of an
interview today and was practically handed the job on the spot. The written
offer is expected to arrive sometime at the end of this week, end of next week
at the latest. It's better than the prior job even, and greater chance of it
lasting a long while. I will receive training in additional skills in my
field, and have a great working environment, great benefits--all good stuff. I
can finally, maybe, have a period of stability that will last longer than three
months!!

Thanks to all who sent me email, private or public. I greatly appreciate it.
I've had the most stressful and worrisome two weeks of my life, and I'd like to
enjoy the rest of the time I have "off" and wait for the offer to officially
make it way to my mailbox and phone.

Love to all,

Kyrene

=====
* Kyrene Ariadne/Andrea Gladia Kyrinia *
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
* Hellenion: http://pagan.drak.net/hellenion *
* The Tholos: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/1527 *
* ICQ:6663573 Yahoo:KyreneAriadne AIM:Kyrene Ariadne *

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Amer. Austroccidentalis Summer Roman Retreat
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla <alexious@-------->
Date:	Tue, 16 Jan 2001 13:04:56 -0800

Ave,

Since you mentioned it...hehehe, as Proconsul of California I am organizing a
meeting in the first weekend of March. :) My able Legate, D. Flamen Solus
sent emails to all California Provincia citizens and even posted it on the NR
main site. I am hoping to get a larger turnout than the 9 who showed up last
time. :)

Currently it seems it will be held it a local Italian Restaurant in the San
Gabriel Valley in Sunny California! If anyone would like information about it
please feel free to contact me! :)

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote:

> Salvete;
>
> I just wanted to congratulate Livia Cornelia, Iulia Cornelia, and all the
> Cives of America Austroccidentalis provincia on this wonderful news. The
> more such real-world events we have, I'm convinced the stronger and better
> off we'll be. Well done!
>
> Now... how about you other governors??? ;-)
>
> Valete,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> Consul
>
> email: germanicus@--------
> AIM: Flavius Vedius
> www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org