| Subject: |
[novaroma] Children's Questions? |
| From: |
"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 11 Feb 2001 01:25:56 -0500 |
|
Salve,
As the time of our first child's birth draws near I find my thoughts turning
more and more towards customs, rituals and such regarding the children and
their role in the family in Ancient Rome. I would be very interested in any
information anyone might have, or be able to point out, regarding birthing
and naming ceremonies in particular.
Did they have any sort of waiting period before naming the child? I know
some cultures did/do, but I don't know if that applies here. I am also
curious as to whether there are any ceremonies or rituals to dedicate a
child, so to speak, to the Gods. I would think that it would depend on
which Gods/Goddesses are involved? The whole area of children as active
followers of our Gods fascinates me. Let's just say I was not raised in an
"active" faith, and look forward to our child being an active pagan.
Anyone with information on children in Rome in general who could perhaps
share their knowledge with us here on the list would be doing a great
service to at least this one nervous mommy-to-be. :) I haven't seen posts
on this topic, so perhaps this is an area that several people might have
questions in.
Thanks in advance for any assistance!
Priscilla Vedia Serena
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re:Cursus Honorum |
| From: |
"Teleri ferch Nyfain" <rckovak@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 11 Feb 2001 03:24:02 -0500 |
|
Salvete
I concur in the suggestions of Marcus Arminius Maior about the Cursus
Honorum, & other restrictions concerning Nova Roma offices. A gradual move
towards a strict adherence, which will coincide with the growth of NR,
should ensure an adequate number of candidates as well as their quality.
Helena Galeria
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Children's Questions? |
| From: |
lsicinius@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 11 Feb 2001 12:06:39 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, "JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@g...> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> As the time of our first child's birth draws near I find my thoughts
turning
> more and more towards customs, rituals and such regarding the
children and
> their role in the family in Ancient Rome. I would be very
interested in any
> information anyone might have, or be able to point out, regarding
birthing
> and naming ceremonies in particular.
>
> Did they have any sort of waiting period before naming the child? I know
> some cultures did/do, but I don't know if that applies here. I am also
> curious as to whether there are any ceremonies or rituals to dedicate a
> child, so to speak, to the Gods. I would think that it would depend on
> which Gods/Goddesses are involved? The whole area of children as active
> followers of our Gods fascinates me. Let's just say I was not
raised in an
> "active" faith, and look forward to our child being an active pagan.
>
> Anyone with information on children in Rome in general who could perhaps
> share their knowledge with us here on the list would be doing a great
> service to at least this one nervous mommy-to-be. :) I haven't
seen posts
> on this topic, so perhaps this is an area that several people might have
> questions in.
>
> Thanks in advance for any assistance!
>
> Priscilla Vedia Serena
Salve, Priscilla Vedia,
You would have your child sitting up in a special midwife's chair that
only had a rim for a seat, and would be attended by the midwife and
her aides. Men were not normally present during the birth. The role of
the Gods during birth aren't mentioned in the book I'm consulting, but
my guess would be that Bonna Dea would oversee this activity, along
with the Lares. See this link for more information on Roman Birth
practices.
http://www.indiana.edu/~ancmed/midwife.HTM
After the Birth of the child, the midwife would place it on the ground
at the Paterfamilis' feet, so he could decide if he wanted to expose
the child or raise it. When the Paterfamilis picked the child up he
was showing that he recognized it as his, and at that time the child
became the newest member of his Gens. For more information on the
powers of the Paterfamilis see
http://www.ukans.edu/history/index/europe/ancient_rome/E/Roman/Texts/secondary/SMIGRA*/Patria_Potestas.html
Since your husband has held the office of Consul, your child is a
noble of a Consular family and will never have the problem of being a
"new man" when (s)he is old enough to seek office. As a noble your
child will have the right to display the Imagios of his/her curile
ancesters.
You need to prepare a bulla. Untill the child is old enough to wear
it, it will be suspended over the crib. The bulla is a small pouch
that contains charms to protect the child untill it becomes an adult.
I have no idea what charms were contained in the bulla. Some modern
charms would be a rabits foot, a four leaf clover, or a penny. One
ancient charm that I would guess at would be a phalic symbol for
protection from the evil eye. The lucky charms would be placed in a
small leather pouch or gold amulet, and worn around the neck. You will
want an odd number of charms in the bulla since odd numbers were
considered lucky. I ran across this site that has instructions for
Latin students who wish to make a Bulla as a class project.
http://www.dl.ket.org/latin1/things/projects/bulla/
Religion would be taught mainly by example. The earliest lesson would
be to act as a respectful observer while you perform the rights at
your larium. The household gods were the most important to a Roman.
Remember When Aeneas fled the sack of Troy the only things he took was
his family and the Pallidium, which was one of his household Lares,
and that in Pompei Lares were found near the bodies of those who were
trying to flee, showing what they considered them the most important
thing they owned.
Vale,
Lucius Sicinius Drusus
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Paypal? |
| From: |
Craig Stevenson <dougies@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 11 Feb 2001 23:31:43 +1030 |
|
Ave all,
Call me ignorant of the technological sector of the commerce world, but what
exactly is the PayPal system, and how does it work?
Vale,
Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Paypal? |
| From: |
lsicinius@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 11 Feb 2001 13:49:38 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, Craig Stevenson <dougies@i...> wrote:
> Ave all,
>
> Call me ignorant of the technological sector of the commerce world,
but what
> exactly is the PayPal system, and how does it work?
>
> Vale,
>
> Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura
Ave,
PayPal is one of the companies compeating with the company I work for
(First Data). The easiest explanation is they work like Western Union
(Owned by First Data). When you want to wire money by Western Union,
you give them the money plus a fee. They then wire an order to the
Western Union Office near where you want to send the money, and
someone can pick up the cash. PayPal takes your money (by credit card
or debit card) and places it in Nova Roma's account, where it can be
picked up (minus a fee). Part of PayPal's fees will go to the credit
card companies and banks as they pay for the services. It makes sense
for a small enity like Nova Roma to use a service like this rather
than dealing with the card companies directally, because the paperwork
would cost more than the PayPal fees. See
http://www.paypal.com/
for details.
Vale,
Lucius Sicinius Drusus
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Curator Sermonem = Dictator ? |
| From: |
Michel Loos <loos@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 11 Feb 2001 13:07:21 -0200 |
|
Salve,
first cool down this is about the function not the person.
We, Romans, have the tradition to defend our Democracy against Monarchic
tendencies through the election of Collegiate Magistrates, this way one
can control the other in all his actions.
Even in matters like commanding the legions, they should take command on
alternate days.
Only when the Commonwealth (Res Publica) faces a danger do we give the
authority to a single person: the dictator. Which is only one that can,
lonely, edict laws, enforce that laws, punish the contravenants. All
other magistrates act collegially.
Now, our NovaRoma is a , still virtual, micronation, where most of the
Roman life goes on on our Forum: the mainlist. Partly because the lex
Cornelia de Privatis Rebus difficults the direct contact between
citizens, mostly due to its virtual status.
And how is this mainlist run?
Through a single magistrate, which edicts the rules, enforces them and
punishes the contravenants : the exact exceptional powers of the
dictator.
Isn't there a problem here? Shouldn't this function be collegial like it
is our tradition ?
Manius Villius Limitanus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Curator Sermonem = Dictator ? |
| From: |
"Marcos Boehme" <m_arminius@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 11 Feb 2001 13:16:05 -0300 |
|
Salvete, Quirites
(comments at the end)
--
On Sun, 11 Feb 2001 13:07:21
Michel Loos wrote:
>Salve,
>
>first cool down this is about the function not the person.
>
>We, Romans, have the tradition to defend our Democracy against Monarchic
>tendencies through the election of Collegiate Magistrates, this way one
>can control the other in all his actions.
(SNIP)
>Now, our NovaRoma is a , still virtual, micronation, where most of the
>Roman life goes on on our Forum: the mainlist
(SNIP)
>And how is this mainlist run?
>Through a single magistrate, which edicts the rules, enforces them and
>punishes the contravenants : the exact exceptional powers of the
>dictator.
>
>Isn't there a problem here? Shouldn't this function be collegial like it
>is our tradition ?
>
>Manius Villius Limitanus
Hey, this can be a great idea!
Perhaps we can have at least two vigitisexviri to every office (curatores differum, sermonem, araneum)
So, if one of the curatores are temporarly unavailable (travel, family issue, sickness etc) we can count with somebody in office.
Marcus Arminius Maior
Aedilis Plebis
Get your small business started at Lycos Small Business at http://www.lycos.com/business/mail.html
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Digest No 1226 Children's Questions? |
| From: |
"Lucius Equitius" <vze23hw7@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 11 Feb 2001 11:37:01 -0500 |
|
Salvete,
I recommend the fine website made by my friend Amethystia Iunia Crystallina
http://famromo.wiccan.net/
For children and childbirth.
http://famromo.wiccan.net/kids.htm
http://famromo.wiccan.net/pregger.htm
http://famromo.wiccan.net/midwives.htm
I also, recommend "The Roman Family" by Suzanne Dixion
John Hopkins University Press 1992
ISBN 0-8018-4200-X
B&N has it in stock... Our New Price: $17.95 , Our Used Price: $13.50
Amazon has it on back order... Our Price: $17.95
Bonam Fortunam et Vale
Censor Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 9
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 01:25:56 -0500
From: "JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@-------->
Subject: Children's Questions?
Salve,
As the time of our first child's birth draws near I find my thoughts turning
more and more towards customs, rituals and such regarding the children and
their role in the family in Ancient Rome. I would be very interested in any
information anyone might have, or be able to point out, regarding birthing
and naming ceremonies in particular.
Did they have any sort of waiting period before naming the child? I know
some cultures did/do, but I don't know if that applies here. I am also
curious as to whether there are any ceremonies or rituals to dedicate a
child, so to speak, to the Gods. I would think that it would depend on
which Gods/Goddesses are involved? The whole area of children as active
followers of our Gods fascinates me. Let's just say I was not raised in an
"active" faith, and look forward to our child being an active pagan.
Anyone with information on children in Rome in general who could perhaps
share their knowledge with us here on the list would be doing a great
service to at least this one nervous mommy-to-be. :) I haven't seen posts
on this topic, so perhaps this is an area that several people might have
questions in.
Thanks in advance for any assistance!
Priscilla Vedia Serena
|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] Curator Sermonem = Dictator ? |
| From: |
"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 11 Feb 2001 11:59:46 -0500 |
|
Salve,
>> first cool down this is about the function not the person. >>
No worries. :) I completely understand where you are coming from and I
think you make an excellent point. I can absolutely see the value of having
more than one elected Curatrix. It would not only be practical in the sense
of leaves of absence, etc.....but it would also work to assure fair and
equitable policies on the list. I would 100% support this going forward.
On a related note, I made a call for scribes quite some time ago and, as
of last night, I have had two of the three accept the position. I am only
awaiting word from the third before publicly announcing who they are and
their duties. True, they are not elected, but their function will certainly
be to aid and assist in the fair and smooth running of the list. I am quite
looking forward to working with them and I am sure they will do a terrific
job.
Now, I would actually prefer that in next year's election there were two
positions open as Curator, as opposed to one who would then appoint
assistants. The only reason I say that is that this would forestall any
criticism of a Curatrix appointing "friends" or "political allies". In any
event I think we are on the same page when we say that the task of
moderating a list is accomplished more easily with more sets of eyes and
ears. Let's face it, "life happens" and one Curatrix cannot be online and
available 365 days a year without fail.
I think a discussion of how to change the election in this sense for next
year would be a very valuable one. I also agree with Marcus Arminius that
this might be a good stance to take on several other minor magistracies such
as the web site. After all, while the positions are minor ones in the grand
scheme of things, if this list or the website were to become unusable simply
due to a problem on the part of the elected official (say a computer problem
or personal illness) well, that would hardly be acceptable. No sense in not
covering ourselves to prevent just such issues.
Thank you for putting forth a terrific idea, and keep an eye out for an
announcement (hopefully by tonight if I hear from the last scribe) on the
new assistants who will be working with me for the duration of this year.
Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena
Curatrix Sermonem
Manius Villius Limitanus
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Curator Sermonem = Dictator ? |
| From: |
LucillaCornelia@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 11 Feb 2001 12:07:00 -0500 |
|
How absurd a notion.
Perhaps then we should have spare teams of Consuls elected . . . and then an extra team of Propraetors . . . and perhaps even a second team of Senators . . . and on and on ad nauseam . . . because, if we are to believe Manius Villius Limitanus, there's no telling what these individuals are up to and what kind of unspeakable havoc these petty autocrats might wreak upon The People . . . and these surplus statesmen can be put into play any time a very small minority throws a tantrum, feeling its toes have been tread upon.
I repeat: How absurd a notion.
We put our trust in the officials we vote into office; they hold these offices to look after our best interests. This includes their forming considered opinion and then acting upon that judgment. Were we to create committees every time a decision were to be made, nothing would ever be accomplished. Our government would collapse under its own weight.
No, Limitanus. There is not a problem here.
Our current Curatrix Sermonem has consistently demonstrated her unswerving committment to NR's well-being; she has never acted capriciously nor carelessly; she has never acted out of anger nor has she acted in haste. She has fulfilled the responsibilities of her office in exemplary fashion, as she continues to do.
The Curatrix Sermonem's job not being an easy one, and typically a thankless one, I believe it's long since time we stopped the derogating and the criticism and said, simply, "Thank you, Curatrix, for a job well done."
Vale bene,
Prima Lucilla Cornelia Fortunata
novaroma@-------- wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> first cool down this is about the function not the person.
>
> We, Romans, have the tradition to defend our Democracy against Monarchic
> tendencies through the election of Collegiate Magistrates, this way one
> can control the other in all his actions.
> Even in matters like commanding the legions, they should take command on
> alternate days.
>
> Only when the Commonwealth (Res Publica) faces a danger do we give the
> authority to a single person: the dictator. Which is only one that can,
> lonely, edict laws, enforce that laws, punish the contravenants. All
> other magistrates act collegially.
>
> Now, our NovaRoma is a , still virtual, micronation, where most of the
> Roman life goes on on our Forum: the mainlist. Partly because the lex
> Cornelia de Privatis Rebus difficults the direct contact between
> citizens, mostly due to its virtual status.
>
> And how is this mainlist run?
> Through a single magistrate, which edicts the rules, enforces them and
> punishes the contravenants : the exact exceptional powers of the
> dictator.
>
> Isn't there a problem here? Shouldn't this function be collegial like it
> is our tradition ?
>
> Manius Villius Limitanus
>
--
Prima Lucilla Cornelia Fortunata
__________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] GREAT NEWS!! :) |
| From: |
cassius622@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 11 Feb 2001 14:16:11 EST |
|
Salvete,
Wow!! This may be the biggest Roman news in our lifetimes. I just saw this in
the online list "The Explorator", and from there went to the website:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/UK/Science/2001-02/latin110201/shtml
I imagine that it will be some years before information becomes available as
printed books, but if this works out it's wonderful news for Roman culture
overall...
************
Digital device reads wealthy Roman's library of 'lost' classics By David
Keys, Archaeology Correspondent 11 February 2001
Hundreds of long-lost works of ancient Greek and Latin philosophy, science
and literature – possibly including works by Aristotle, Archimedes and Seneca
– are about to be rediscovered in what promises to be the most important
re-emergence of classical literature and thought since the Renaissance.
American scientists have succeeded in developing a remarkable new high-tech
system for reading previously illegible manuscripts. Using digital
technology, academics from Brigham Young University near Salt Lake City,
Utah, will "remaster" the lost wisdom of the ancients.
Classical scholars believe the technology will open up the world's greatest
surviving ancient works which have been illegible because of their poor state
of preservation. As many as 850 Greek and Latin philosophical and literary
works were excavated from a 2,000-year-old Roman villa in the ancient city of
Herculaneum near Naples by Italian antiquarians in the 18th century. Among
the works, which academics hope to read using the new equipment, are the lost
works of Aristotle (his 30 dialogues, referred to by other authors, but lost
in antiquity), scientific works by Archimedes, mathematical treatises by
Euclid, philosophical work by Epicurus, masterpieces by the Greek poets
Simonides and Alcaeus, erotic poems by Philodemus, lesbian erotic poetry by
Sappho, the lost sections of Virgil's Juvenilia, comedies by Terence,
tragedies by Seneca and works by the Roman poets Ennius, Accius, Catullus,
Gallus, Macer and Varus.
"The development of sophisticated digital technology for reading ancient
manuscripts is the most important technological advance in the archaeological
and historical world for several decades," said the Scandinavian classicist
Professor Knut Kleve, one of the leading academics involved in reading the
lost works.
The illegible texts all came from the library of a wealthy Roman politician
and intellectual who was the father-in-law of Julius Caesar. For more than a
century the library flourished as a major centre of Roman scholarship and
intellectual achievement. But in the summer of AD 79 it was overwhelmed by
the eruption of Mount Vesuvius and was buried under almost 100ft of volcanic
debris.
Extraordinarily, although the volcanic catastrophe destroyed two cities and
killed tens of thousands of people, it actually served to save the library
for posterity. The searing heat charred the library's papyrus manuscripts,
preserving them forever, albeit in a damaged state.
A small portion of the library – about 1,200 scrolls – was discovered during
excavations in the mid 18th century, but until now most of the material has
been largely unreadable because of the degree of fire damage and the fact
that the layers of the papyrus rolls had stuck together.
The new high-tech digital reading system, developed by US academic Steven
Booras, of Brigham Young University, means many more manuscripts will be
readable for the first time.
Out of the 1,200 or so individual manuscripts only 800 have been unrolled,
and 450 are so difficult to read that their contents have been little
understood and their titles and authorship unknown."
Valete,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
Consul
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] GREAT NEWS!! :) |
| From: |
"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 11 Feb 2001 20:46:25 +0100 |
|
Salve!
Cheers, now they can pester us with even more Latin and Greek texts! Ah, I
can't wait to see how boring Ennius °really° is! j/k.... Great news indeed.
I hope it will rekindle the interest in classic languages all over the
world. Shouldn't NR send its Latin and Greek experts? :-)
Vale,
Draco
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] An excelent place to meet |
| From: |
merlinia@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 11 Feb 2001 20:18:41 -0000 |
|
Salvete, Omes.
I am setting up meetings at a local Barnes & Noble, but realized
there is another good place-
AIA (American Institute Archaeology) has many local chapters accross
this country, most of which hold monthly Lectures.
You can find out where & when these are, by looking in a copy of
'ARCHAEOLOGY', on the membership page. There is a website,too.
Lastly, the lectures are free, and anyone can come. That is one of
their ways of getting new members.
My local chapter is
http://chss2.montclair.edu/rennert/aia/aiameet.html
I will be at the next one, about Massidonian Tombs, wearing a
red Landsend squall jacket.
Check your local AIA chapters!
Valete!
-M.
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Curator Sermonem = Dictator ? |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 11 Feb 2001 12:30:44 -0800 |
|
Ave,
Well my question to you is....if we had both moderators.....and BOTH of them
decided BVM must be moderatored....would you and those others still carry
on?
Personally, in my opinion....even if we had 5 Moderators..and all 5 HAD to
agree to moderate a person....those who are complaining would still be
complaining....And those that don't care....still would not care.
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor of Nova Roma
Michel Loos wrote:
> Salve,
>
> first cool down this is about the function not the person.
>
> We, Romans, have the tradition to defend our Democracy against Monarchic
> tendencies through the election of Collegiate Magistrates, this way one
> can control the other in all his actions.
> Even in matters like commanding the legions, they should take command on
> alternate days.
>
> Only when the Commonwealth (Res Publica) faces a danger do we give the
> authority to a single person: the dictator. Which is only one that can,
> lonely, edict laws, enforce that laws, punish the contravenants. All
> other magistrates act collegially.
>
> Now, our NovaRoma is a , still virtual, micronation, where most of the
> Roman life goes on on our Forum: the mainlist. Partly because the lex
> Cornelia de Privatis Rebus difficults the direct contact between
> citizens, mostly due to its virtual status.
>
> And how is this mainlist run?
> Through a single magistrate, which edicts the rules, enforces them and
> punishes the contravenants : the exact exceptional powers of the
> dictator.
>
> Isn't there a problem here? Shouldn't this function be collegial like it
> is our tradition ?
>
> Manius Villius Limitanus
>
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: GREAT NEWS!! :) |
| From: |
lsicinius@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 11 Feb 2001 21:15:01 -0000 |
|
Salvete,
This is fantastic news! I first learned of Piso's library some years
ago, and I've often wondered what treasures it contained. Personaly
I'm hoping that Clio inspired Piso to include some history in the
library. I'd love to read the memiors of Sulla.
For a little background, The father-in-law of Caesar that was
mentioned in the story was Lucius Calpurnius Piso. A much later owner
of the Villa would have been Giaus Calpurnius Piso who was well known
as a patron of littiture. G. Calpurnius Piso was executed by Nero in
65 CE (818 AUC) for leading a plot to overthrow Nero and make himself
Emperor.
The Piso family is also the subject of one of the wilder conspiricy
theories I've run across. The web is littered with sites that claim
the Christian new testament was actually written by the Piso family.
If you are lucky you may run across links showing that all the later
Emperors of Rome and Constanipole were members of this family as well
as most of the Kings of European countries, and that Queen Elizabeth
II is continuing the 2000 year old Piso Conspiricy. I'm sure this will
also have some effect on the Piso theories which I find to be amusing,
but remain extreamly skeptical about.
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Children's Questions? |
| From: |
sfp55@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 11 Feb 2001 16:35:28 EST |
|
In a message dated 2/11/2001 4:09:28 AM Pacific Standard Time,
lsicinius@-------- writes:
<< See this link for more information on Roman Birth
practices.
http://www.indiana.edu/~ancmed/midwife.HTM
For more information on the
powers of the Paterfamilis see
http://www.ukans.edu/history/index/europe/ancient_rome/E/Roman/Texts/secondary
/SMIGRA*/Patria_Potestas.html
>>I ran across this site that has instructions for
Latin students who wish to make a Bulla as a class project.
http://www.dl.ket.org/latin1/things/projects/bulla/>>
Lucius Sicinius Drusus
>>
Salvete citizens!
Just when I'm about to give up on us ever accomplishing anything, this
wonderful imformative post appears that lives up to the reasons why Nova Roma
was founded.
Well done L. Sininicus Drusus!
Valete!
Q. Fabius Maximus
Proconsul
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Curator Sermonem = Dictator ? |
| From: |
Michel Loos <loos@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 11 Feb 2001 20:40:27 -0200 |
|
LucillaCornelia@-------- wrote:
>
> How absurd a notion.
>
> Perhaps then we should have spare teams of Consuls elected . . . and then an extra team of Propraetors . . . and perhaps even a second team of Senators . . . and on and on ad nauseam . . . because, if we are to believe Manius Villius Limitanus, there's no telling what these individuals are up to and what kind of unspeakable havoc these petty autocrats might wreak upon The People . . . and these surplus statesmen can be put into play any time a very small minority throws a tantrum, feeling its toes have been tread upon.
>
> I repeat: How absurd a notion.
>
> We put our trust in the officials we vote into office; they hold these offices to
>look after our best interests. This includes their forming considered opinion and
>then acting upon that judgment. Were we to create committees every time a decision
>were to be made, nothing would ever be accomplished. Our government would collapse
>under its own weight.
No commision colleges of magistrates, that s the bases of the Roman
system and the one big difference with other systems.
>
> No, Limitanus. There is not a problem here.
>
> Our current Curatrix Sermonem has consistently demonstrated her unswerving
>committment to NR's well-being; she has never acted capriciously nor carelessly; she
>has never acted out of anger nor has she acted in haste. She has fulfilled the
>responsibilities of her office in exemplary fashion, as she continues to do.
>
> The Curatrix Sermonem's job not being an easy one, and typically a thankless one, I
>believe it's long since time we stopped the derogating and the criticism and said,
>simply, "Thank you, Curatrix, for a job well done."
>
I totally disagree with you on this point, but that discussion has been
illegally closed.
Now we must think why in carefully choosing system which privileges
collegiality every where, we can have somebody desciding alone on such
an important matter as Freedom of Speach : One of the Human Rights.
Manisu Villius Limitanus
> Vale bene,
> Prima Lucilla Cornelia Fortunata
>
> novaroma@-------- wrote:
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > first cool down this is about the function not the person.
> >
> > We, Romans, have the tradition to defend our Democracy against Monarchic
> > tendencies through the election of Collegiate Magistrates, this way one
> > can control the other in all his actions.
> > Even in matters like commanding the legions, they should take command on
> > alternate days.
> >
> > Only when the Commonwealth (Res Publica) faces a danger do we give the
> > authority to a single person: the dictator. Which is only one that can,
> > lonely, edict laws, enforce that laws, punish the contravenants. All
> > other magistrates act collegially.
> >
> > Now, our NovaRoma is a , still virtual, micronation, where most of the
> > Roman life goes on on our Forum: the mainlist. Partly because the lex
> > Cornelia de Privatis Rebus difficults the direct contact between
> > citizens, mostly due to its virtual status.
> >
> > And how is this mainlist run?
> > Through a single magistrate, which edicts the rules, enforces them and
> > punishes the contravenants : the exact exceptional powers of the
> > dictator.
> >
> > Isn't there a problem here? Shouldn't this function be collegial like it
> > is our tradition ?
> >
> > Manius Villius Limitanus
> >
> --
> Prima Lucilla Cornelia Fortunata
> __________________________________________________________________
> Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Curator Sermonem = Dictator ? |
| From: |
LucillaCornelia@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:25:19 -0500 |
|
novaroma@-------- wrote:
> I totally disagree with you on this point, but that discussion has been
> illegally closed.
RESPONDEO:
Certainly, I respect your right to disagree and would defend that right if ever it were in jeopardy. However, nothing illegal has been done.
>
> Now we must think why in carefully choosing system which privileges
> collegiality every where, we can have somebody desciding alone on such
> an important matter as Freedom of Speach : One of the Human Rights.
RESPONDEO:
Ah, Limitanus . . . when you are able to get past your erroneous conclusion that this is a Freedom of Speech issue, or, in even broader scope, a Human Rights issue, then we will indeed have something to discuss.
For now, the logical conclusion is that we're not even on the same topic.
This exchange has been a pleasure. I am certain there will arise future issues where we can each advance cogent argument and thereby raise the level of discourse considerably.
Valete bene,
Prima Lucilla Cornelia Fortunata
> Manisu Villius Limitanus
>
> > Vale bene,
> > Prima Lucilla Cornelia Fortunata
> >
> > novaroma@-------- wrote:
> > >
> > > Salve,
> > >
> > > first cool down this is about the function not the person.
> > >
> > > We, Romans, have the tradition to defend our Democracy against Monarchic
> > > tendencies through the election of Collegiate Magistrates, this way one
> > > can control the other in all his actions.
> > > Even in matters like commanding the legions, they should take command on
> > > alternate days.
> > >
> > > Only when the Commonwealth (Res Publica) faces a danger do we give the
> > > authority to a single person: the dictator. Which is only one that can,
> > > lonely, edict laws, enforce that laws, punish the contravenants. All
> > > other magistrates act collegially.
> > >
> > > Now, our NovaRoma is a , still virtual, micronation, where most of the
> > > Roman life goes on on our Forum: the mainlist. Partly because the lex
> > > Cornelia de Privatis Rebus difficults the direct contact between
> > > citizens, mostly due to its virtual status.
> > >
> > > And how is this mainlist run?
> > > Through a single magistrate, which edicts the rules, enforces them and
> > > punishes the contravenants : the exact exceptional powers of the
> > > dictator.
> > >
> > > Isn't there a problem here? Shouldn't this function be collegial like it
> > > is our tradition ?
> > >
> > > Manius Villius Limitanus
> > >
> > --
> > Prima Lucilla Cornelia Fortunata
> > __________________________________________________________________
> > Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at
> http://webmail.netscape.com/
> >
>
--
Prima Lucilla Cornelia Fortunata
__________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] VETO |
| From: |
Fortunatus <labienus@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 11 Feb 2001 17:53:11 -0600 |
|
Tribunus Plebis T Labienus Curatrix Sermo Priscillae Vediae
Quiritibusque SPD
The curatrix sermo recently stated, in regard to the discussion about
the main list's language policy:
> All views have been expressed, the policy has been clearly stated and
> the topic has been settled. Further discussion is unwarranted on the
> main list at this time. Anyone wishing to pursue the discussion in
> private is more than welcome to do so. However, no further posts on
> this topic will be permitted here on the main list.
However, the constitution states unequivocally, in section II.B.4, that
all citizens have "The right to participate in all public forums and
discussions, and the right to reasonably expect such forums to be
supported by the State. Such communications, regardless of their
content, may not be restricted by the State, except where they represent
an imminent and clear danger to the Republic. Such officially sponsored
forums may be expected to be reasonably moderated in the interests of
maintaining order and civility;"
I did not see any particularly disorderly or uncivil posts put forth in
that discussion; certainly nothing so bad as to allow such a blanket
censure. No imminent danger to the state was posed by the
conversation. Discussion concerning the policies of Nova Roma's
magistrates is entrely germane to this list. Regardless of how tired we
all may have grown of the discussion, its participants clearly have the
right to pursue it.
Therefore, I feel that both the spirit and the letter of the
constitution are contrary to this action. And so I must pronounce
intercessio against this action.
Please note that this use of intercessio has no authority unless and
until Cn Moravius chooses to support it with a statement of intercessio
of his own.
Please note also that the decision to make this announcement is based
entirely upon the language of the constitution, and it is not meant to
imply any position on the part of this tribune concerning the language
policy of this list or the curatrix sermo.
Valete
|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] Curator Sermonem = Dictator ? |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:54:55 -0500 |
|
Salve;
> -----Original Message-----
> From: loos [mailto:loos]On Behalf Of Michel Loos
> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 5:40 PM
>
> > The Curatrix Sermonem's job not being an easy one, and typically a
thankless one, I
> > believe it's long since time we stopped the derogating and the criticism
and said,
> > simply, "Thank you, Curatrix, for a job well done."
>
> I totally disagree with you on this point, but that discussion has been
> illegally closed.
I'm beginning to wonder if this compulsion of yours to lie is perhaps
psychological in nature. This statement of yours has no basis in fact. Two
discussions have been halted; the Falkland Islands and whether or not
non-English posts should be required to have English translations. Unless
you're privy to some source of information from the Curatrix Sermonem that I
am not, the topic of whether the Curatrix' job is a tough and largely
thankless one, and that she is doing an excellent job despite the slings and
arrows a vocal minority continues to verbally hurl at her (largely in other
venues where she is not a participant), is perfectly acceptable.
Vale,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul
"For Gracchus, hatred of the Patrician class is a profession, and not such a
bad one." (Crassus, in the film "Spartacus")
email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
ICQ: 106199729
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
|
