Forum Romanum


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Keep the recent resignations in Perspective
From:	"Pompeia Cornelia" <scriba_forum@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 00:23:21 -0000

Salvete Omnes:

Comments below.

Vale,
Pompeia Cornelia

>From: "Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@-------->
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: <novaroma@-------->
>Subject: [novaroma] Keep the recent resignations in prospective!
>Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 17:15:32 -0600
>
>15 Mar 2001
>
>Salve All
>
>It is unfortunate that a few of our better known and respected citizens
>have not found what they have been looking for in Nova Roma. But let us not
>loss sight of the fact that our Micro-nation is very healthy

Pompeia:*******Umm, with the greatest respect, fellow Propraetor, the
resignation of this many citizens in one day is not exactly a sign of
organizational homeostasis. Regardless of what one's position is, or what
personal/political point of view one holds, this Ides of March 2754 AUC is a
multifold day of mourning for Nova Roma.

Let us look at what has happened; and let each of us ask ourselves "what
could I do to make things better or change things, so that this does not
happen again?"

Alas, I must take a little time to mourn the losses... the losses of our res
publica, before I stand up, dust myself off, and rebuild.

Again, with respect Quinte, I do not feel this is a healthy sign; I cannot
easily dismiss what has transpired today*************

and will continue to grow beyond all of our wildest dreams!

Pompeia***But we must all work TOGETHER, carefully and virtuously, to bring
our dreams to realities******

Do not loss heart, remember Roma was not built in one day or nor was it
always a pleasant undertaking. I believe that those currently resigning have
given up more then they themselves know.
>Vale,
Pompeia

>Vale
>
>Quintus Sertorius
>
>Queastor
>Nova Roma
>Propraetor
>Canada Occidentalis
>
>Join the Main List for Nova Roma
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
>
>Join the egroup for Canada Occidentalis
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_CanOcc
>
>Join the egroup for the Quintus Sertorius of Old Rome
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sertorii
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

_________________________________________________________________________
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Subject:	[novaroma] Salvete
From:	gcassiusnerva@--------
Date:	Thu, 15 Mar 2001 19:31:30 EST

I'm "official" today as the newest Cassii. I'm looking forward to talking to
you all.

Gaius Cassius Nerva

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Mass Resignations??
From:	"David Sanchez" <davius_sanctex@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 01:33:18 +0100

Salve, Fortunata Salvete etiam omnes:

> I am also shocked by this wave of resignations. This has me baffled and
> disheartened, since I have recently been interested in spending some
> time developing my Gens and finding my place in Nova Roma. Now I am
> really confused and definitely feeling like I must have missed
> something.

Res non se habent bene in Nova Roma, scio me ignorantem
veritatis totae, sed quo plus proficitur eo plus suspiciones sunt
verosimiles.

Si videre non licet nobis, censeo praestat abire e Nova Roma ...

Valetote, amici
Claudius Salix Davianus
__________________________________________

[Things don't run very well in Nova Roma, I'm not aware
of final truth, but so many things advance, all this is more
and more suspicious ...

If the is no clear what is happening exactly, it is possible
the best think would to abandone NR ...]


Subject:	[novaroma] Consul Cassius speaks about Resignations...
From:	cassius622@--------
Date:	Thu, 15 Mar 2001 19:46:32 EST

Salvete,

As all subscribers to the list have seen by now, a few Citizens have decided
to leave Nova Roma and post their resignations at the same time.

While a sad thing, this is certainly not a coincidence. A few folks have been
discussing "breaking off" and forming a separate Roman interest group for
some months, mostly to escape "politics" in Nova Roma. It seems to me that
this may well be the first stages of such an endeavor.

I will certainly miss the (five?) folks that have left, and fear that there
will likely be another four or five to follow.

To you that have gone; I wish you well. I mean that sincerely, not only for
the comradeship you've offered for at least a part of your time with us, but
also because if you are forming a Roman group you'll be facing a good deal of
work and many surprises ahead. When Nova Roma was founded there was no way to
know the effort it would take, nor how difficult it would be to provide a
place where hundreds of people (with hundreds of different opinions) could
work together toward similar goals. Building a serious public organization
is a tough course to follow. I have great sympathy for anyone undertaking
such a task!

But the folks I truly wish to speak to are the hundreds of people who will
stay with Nova Roma as it continues to grow. Firstly, I can state with all
confidence that the structure of Nova Roma as a micronation is undamaged.
Folks leaving only proves the adage that no one is indispensable. It's
happened before and it will happen again... no company, group, or
organization has ever been free of such differences of goals and opinions.

Nova Roma has never gained less than 20 new Citizens a month no matter what
the state of her politics, and even if ten times the number of people leaving
now were to go elsewhere the place would be back to normal within a year.

Not that I dismiss this situation. Far from it. My sincere hope is that we
can all learn from this. Some of the folks who have left have done so for
sincere ideological differences ... others have simply become weary of too
many list arguments and lack of respect between Citizens. Quite frankly, we
do need to treat each other better, whether we are Citizens or Magistrates.

As Consul, I hope to be one of the Nova Romans to take up such issues. I am
looking info alternatives such as a Sodalitas dedicated to the Virtues, to
promote more civilized behavior in the public sphere, and ways for Citizens
to solve issues both public and private before they become problems. I will
post more about such ideas in the next few days.

In the meantime, I can only close by saying that as an individual, I LIKE
Nova Roma, even when political issues become difficult. I'd put up with more
problems than we've ever had, or are likely to ever see, for the chance to
rebuild something "real" as opposed to a "historical interest" group. Nova
Roma has brought Romanitas into my life in a way that no other form of
organization ever could. I believe I'm not alone in expressing such a
sentiment.

To close, if anyone has concerns or would like to ask serious questions about
Nova Roma, please feel free to Email me on a personal basis. My door is open,
as are the doors to the Senate and the Collegium Pontificum. AVE ROMA AETERNA!

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Consul, Nova Roma

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[novaroma] Reaffirmation of my Citizenship
From:	lsicinius@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 00:59:37 -0000

Salvete,

In light of the resignations that appeared today,

I Publicly reaffirm my citizenship in Nova Roma!

I will continue to try to make Nova Roma the best possible nation,
Since I'm a fairly new citizen (less than 3 months) I am unable to
apply for the Propraetorship of my provincia, so I now offer any
services I may be able to preform to whoever the Senate apoints as
Propraetor of America Austrorientalis.

The Basilica Project will continue. Nova Roma will have it's own Web
Browser.

I'm deeply saddened to see Nova Roma lose so many citizens today, and
I fear that we may have lost more than the resignations we have seen.
There may be more who no longer hold us in enough regard to bother
with sending in a formal resignation.

I hope that those who have tendered thier resignations will
reconsider, and that any others who are thinking of following them
will think it over. Most of today's resignations mentioned politics,
and I remind you that our magistrates only serve a single year, that
it isn't like the Macro-nations where you may have to endure a 4 to 6
year term under a leader you dislike, and who may be reelected for
another term.

Valete,
Lucius Sicinius Drusus


Subject:	[novaroma] a black day
From:	octavianuslucius@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 01:14:21 -0000

Salvete omnes.

I just want to express my humble feeling that this is a "black" day
for NR considering the very high qualified people who just left.
It is indeed a great loss, and I wish them all a very good fortune in
their future. I shall not meet them again, so Good bye!

Valete bene
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Propraetor provinciae Argentinae


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Keep the recent resignations in Perspective
From:	"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@-------->
Date:	Thu, 15 Mar 2001 19:05:04 -0600

I see the wisdom in you words, we will carry on....

QS

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pompeia Cornelia" <scriba_forum@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 6:23 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Keep the recent resignations in Perspective

> Salvete Omnes:
>
> Comments below.
>
> Vale,
> Pompeia Cornelia
>
>
> >From: "Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@-------->
> >Reply-To: novaroma@--------
> >To: <novaroma@-------->
> >Subject: [novaroma] Keep the recent resignations in prospective!
> >Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 17:15:32 -0600
> >
> >15 Mar 2001
> >
> >Salve All
> >
> >It is unfortunate that a few of our better known and respected citizens
> >have not found what they have been looking for in Nova Roma. But let us
not
> >loss sight of the fact that our Micro-nation is very healthy
>
> Pompeia:*******Umm, with the greatest respect, fellow Propraetor, the
> resignation of this many citizens in one day is not exactly a sign of
> organizational homeostasis. Regardless of what one's position is, or what
> personal/political point of view one holds, this Ides of March 2754 AUC is
a
> multifold day of mourning for Nova Roma.
>
> Let us look at what has happened; and let each of us ask ourselves "what
> could I do to make things better or change things, so that this does not
> happen again?"
>
> Alas, I must take a little time to mourn the losses... the losses of our
res
> publica, before I stand up, dust myself off, and rebuild.
>
> Again, with respect Quinte, I do not feel this is a healthy sign; I
cannot
> easily dismiss what has transpired today*************
>
> and will continue to grow beyond all of our wildest dreams!
>
> Pompeia***But we must all work TOGETHER, carefully and virtuously, to
bring
> our dreams to realities******
>
> Do not loss heart, remember Roma was not built in one day or nor was it
> always a pleasant undertaking. I believe that those currently resigning
have
> given up more then they themselves know.
> >Vale,
> Pompeia
>
> >Vale
> >
> >Quintus Sertorius
> >
> >Queastor
> >Nova Roma
> >Propraetor
> >Canada Occidentalis
> >
> >Join the Main List for Nova Roma
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
> >
> >Join the egroup for Canada Occidentalis
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_CanOcc
> >
> >Join the egroup for the Quintus Sertorius of Old Rome
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sertorii
> >
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Keep the recent resignations in Perspective
From:	"Oppius Flaccus Severus" <oppiusflaccus@-------->
Date:	Thu, 15 Mar 2001 17:35:01 -0800

Salvete Pompeia Cornelia et Quiritibus;

I believe our esteemed Consul Cassius spoke eloquently as to
the spate of resignations and where we can go from here. As far
as 'perspective goes,' we simply have to note the obviously contrived
actions of a group of people that had been meeting in private for quite
some time to plot monumental actions against our mighty Respublica.
So, how long could such a plot have been growing? Ah, how they
must have schemed and spoken in clandestine tones as to 'not liking
this, and not liking that.'

One must only read between the lines of some of these resignations
to determine the bitterness, loathing and contempt to which they have
decided to spew forth against our nation. The inconsistencies are there
for all to see compounded by the immature name calling and vindictives
directed against some of our most esteemed founders and magistrates.

So I say to you as a privatus and a priest of our hallowed Religio, this is
not indeed a "black day." This is a day when those who would work against
us have left. This is a day in which the some closet-scheming cives
can finally be exposed to the light of day, their plans made plain for all
to
see so that we may see clear examples of anti-Romanitas at work.

This is also a day when we can celebrate the approval
more new, quality citizens. This is a day when we can celebrate a great year
of
service from cives like Quintus Sertorius. This is a day when we see new
members such as Gaius Cassius Nerva join us. This is a day when we see
excellent work being done in our various Sodalitas. This is a day when we
can
offer thanks and gratitude for our noble magistrates.

In short; for the newer
cives who may read this -NR is a great place to live and is still represents
an ideal, and a worthy goal for us to aspire to. There are hundreds of us-
all over the world, united in building this great nation. Among these
numbers there are dozens if not hundreds feverishly working in various
social groups and in provincial venues to make it an exciting and worthy
place to be. These mi amices and Romani are far better and more
productive things to focus on.

Now, on with the future!

Bene valete in Pace Deorum,
-Oppius Flaccus Severus
Sacerdos Neptunus and happy civus of Nova Roma.
-----Original Message-----
From: Pompeia Cornelia [mailto:scriba_forum@--------]
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 4:23 PM
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Keep the recent resignations in Perspective

Salvete Omnes:

Comments below.

Vale,
Pompeia Cornelia

>From: "Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@-------->
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: <novaroma@-------->
>Subject: [novaroma] Keep the recent resignations in prospective!
>Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 17:15:32 -0600
>
>15 Mar 2001
>
>Salve All
>
>It is unfortunate that a few of our better known and respected citizens
>have not found what they have been looking for in Nova Roma. But let us not
>loss sight of the fact that our Micro-nation is very healthy

Pompeia:*******Umm, with the greatest respect, fellow Propraetor, the
resignation of this many citizens in one day is not exactly a sign of
organizational homeostasis. Regardless of what one's position is, or what
personal/political point of view one holds, this Ides of March 2754 AUC is a
multifold day of mourning for Nova Roma.

Let us look at what has happened; and let each of us ask ourselves "what
could I do to make things better or change things, so that this does not
happen again?"

Alas, I must take a little time to mourn the losses... the losses of our res
publica, before I stand up, dust myself off, and rebuild.

Again, with respect Quinte, I do not feel this is a healthy sign; I cannot
easily dismiss what has transpired today*************

and will continue to grow beyond all of our wildest dreams!

Pompeia***But we must all work TOGETHER, carefully and virtuously, to bring
our dreams to realities******

Do not loss heart, remember Roma was not built in one day or nor was it
always a pleasant undertaking. I believe that those currently resigning have
given up more then they themselves know.
>Vale,
Pompeia

>Vale
>
>Quintus Sertorius
>
>Queastor
>Nova Roma
>Propraetor
>Canada Occidentalis
>
>Join the Main List for Nova Roma
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
>
>Join the egroup for Canada Occidentalis
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_CanOcc
>
>Join the egroup for the Quintus Sertorius of Old Rome
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sertorii
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.


Subject:	[novaroma] Resignation
From:	Gian G Reali <piscinus@-------->
Date:	Thu, 15 Mar 2001 20:45:54 -0800

Salvete Quirites

With this letter I do hereby resign my offices as Tribunus
Plebis, Legatus Lacuus Magnorum, Flamen Cerealis, my membership in all
sodalitates of Nova Roma, and I do hereby renounce my citizenship in and
any association with Nova Roma.

There is very little I might add to the comments already made by
Ericius, Scaevola Magister, Marcius Rex, Livia Marcia, and of course my
mater and pater familias Aletheia and Nicholaus Moravius Vado. These
have been and remain the most honorable individuals I have come to know
in Nova Roma.

Valete

Gnaeus Moravius Piscinus


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Consul Cassius speaks about Resignations...
From:	gcassiusnerva@--------
Date:	Thu, 15 Mar 2001 20:42:51 EST

In a message dated 3/15/01 4:47:35 PM Pacific Standard Time,
cassius622@-------- writes:

> . I am
> looking info alternatives such as a Sodalitas dedicated to the Virtues

Do count me in on this Pater.

Nerva

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[novaroma] Roman Virtues
From:	iasonvs_serenvs@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 02:04:23 -0000

Salvete Omnes....

Despite the bewildering spate of resignations, and the confusion
engendered in my own understanding of Roma Nova, I will once again
offer to undertake a serious serialiazation of the Roman Virtues. As
I look upon my sons, and as I review the decisions I have made with
regard to their education, I am perennial reminded of the
regeneration inherent in all human actions. Even an act of sabotage
serves the purposes of life.

And although I am a recent addition to this august body, I have not
felt as at home in the (albeit impersonal) deliberations of a
community as I do now. Our Roman forebears believed in conflict,
enshrined it in their offices and social constructs, and encouraged
it among their allies. A most Roman fellow, Niccolo Machiavelli, in
his "Discourses on the First Ten Books of Livy..." notes that it was
the essential Roman genius to provide for the expression of partisan
disputes in Roman affairs. The Tribunate was conceived as a
deliberate, and sharp, thorn in the side of the Patriciate.

These men, their system, and the Virtues which inform their actions
insprired the founders of American nations. Washington, Monroe,
Hamilton, Bolivar, and many others - they looked to Roma.

Would we not be well served by a certain serendipitous recapitulation
of these virtues?

If anyone at all is interested, please contact me, on or off list.

As I mentioned to one other person, it is my hope to begin with the
stories of Numa Pompilious, Decius Mus, Mucius Scaevola, Cincinnatus,
and a few others. Incidentally, any illustrators...?

Sincerely,

Ias. Serenvs Carolvs


Subject:	[novaroma] Not So!
From:	"Pompeia Cornelia" <scriba_forum@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 02:11:28 -0000

Salve Oppius Flaccus et alii:

Just to clarify, Oppius, I made my comments approx. 1/2 hour before our
Consul spoke, so my remarks can and should not be construed as an attempt to
condradict him.

The main point of my discourse was that a loss of so many citizens in a
given day is not the norm, and that in itself, is not a good sign,
regardless of one's political or personal point of view. I don't think I am
that far off the mark. At one point or another, these citizens have
contributed positively to the growth of Nova Roma. That is an inalterable
fact.

I applaud the Consul's ideas about a sodalitas to study the practicality of
the Roman virtues. May it burst at the seams with attendance. I shall be
the first to get "in line" to join up.

Bene Vale,
Pompeia Cornelia

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Piscinus' Resignation
From:	sfp55@--------
Date:	Thu, 15 Mar 2001 21:12:04 EST

In a message dated 3/15/2001 5:44:19 PM Pacific Standard Time,
piscinus@-------- writes:

<< There is very little I might add to the comments already made by
Ericius, Scaevola Magister, Marcius Rex, Livia Marcia, and of course my
mater and pater familias Aletheia and Nicholaus Moravius Vado. These
have been and remain the most honorable individuals I have come to know
in Nova Roma. <<

Well Gnaeus Moravius Piscinus,
We will miss the others. We will not miss you. And how like the rat you
are, leaving Nova Roma in the dead of night after all the Honorable Romans
left in daylight.

Q. Fabius Maximus


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Consul Cassius speaks about Resignations...
From:	"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@-------->
Date:	Thu, 15 Mar 2001 19:56:32 -0600

I too would like to join a Sodalitas to the Virtues! An excellent idea.

QS

----- Original Message -----
From: <gcassiusnerva@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Consul Cassius speaks about Resignations...

> In a message dated 3/15/01 4:47:35 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> cassius622@-------- writes:
>
>
> > . I am
> > looking info alternatives such as a Sodalitas dedicated to the Virtues
>
>
> Do count me in on this Pater.
>
> Nerva
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


Subject:	[novaroma] Happy novaroman birthday Quinte! :-)
From:	octavianuslucius@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 02:16:03 -0000

Salve mi optime amice Quinte

Happy novaroman birthday :-) my friend. I wish you a succesful year
as propraetor and as novaroman.

Cura ut valeas
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus

--- In novaroma@--------, "Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@h...>
wrote:
> 15 Mar 2001
>
> Salve All
>
> This day is a very important one for me. On this date last year I
was accepted as a Citizen of Nova Roma!.... The world has turned
over many times since then, but my love for Roma has only increased.
I hope that I can continue to contribute to our micro-nation at least
as much in the future as I have in the past. When I found out I was a
Citizen I was holding my 3 week old daughter, the one that we where
told would never be born, and now she is as strong and healthy as my
feeling for Roma!.... So... I hope this day leaves all of us with
some small special memory that everyone can keep with themselves
forever.
>
> P.S.
> I think, but I am not sure, this day in history holds some other
less important event! ;-)
>
> Vale
>
> Quintus Sertorius
>
> Queastor
> Nova Roma
> Propraetor
> Canada Occidentalis
>
> Join the Main List for Nova Roma
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
>
> Join the egroup for Canada Occidentalis
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_CanOcc
>
> Join the egroup for the Quintus Sertorius of Old Rome
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sertorii
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Keep the recent resignations in Perspective
From:	Fortunatus <labienus@-------->
Date:	Thu, 15 Mar 2001 20:30:42 -0600

Salvete Oppi Flacce et Quirites

I knew that messages like this would appear in response to the
resignations that occurred earlier today. However, I didn't expect them
from someone I generally consider reasonable and level-headed man. To
say that Nova Roma is strong, that its goals are worthwhile, and that it
is worth working for is a good response to today's events. To cast
aspersions upon a group of very worthy people is neither necessary nor
desirable.

> I believe our esteemed Consul Cassius spoke eloquently as to
> the spate of resignations and where we can go from here. As far
> as 'perspective goes,' we simply have to note the obviously contrived
> actions of a group of people that had been meeting in private for
> quite some time to plot monumental actions against our mighty
> Respublica. So, how long could such a plot have been growing? Ah,
> how they must have schemed and spoken in clandestine tones as to
> 'not liking this, and not liking that.'

A group of friends saw many things they disliked, discussed these things
amongst themselves, and agreed relatively simultaneously that they had
better things upon which to spend their energies. This was no nefarious
plot, and none of them were under any belief that it was a "monumental
action" against the Respublica. Your accusation is over-blown,
overstated, and based upon far less than a full picture. The 'spin' you
have put on their decision--a decision that was not reached easily or
quickly by any of them--is unwarranted and typical of what people
complain about when they decry Nova Roma's politics.

> One must only read between the lines of some of these resignations
> to determine the bitterness, loathing and contempt to which they have
> decided to spew forth against our nation. The inconsistencies are
> there for all to see compounded by the immature name calling and
> vindictives directed against some of our most esteemed founders and
> magistrates.

The contempt to which you refer is directed toward people, as opposed to
the nation as a whole. One of the things that led some of them to leave
was the unfortunate tendency of some here to equate criticism of
magistrates with treason. I would say that 'disillusionment' would be a
more correct term for what most of them feel toward Nova Roma as a
whole.

> So I say to you as a privatus and a priest of our hallowed Religio,
> this is not indeed a "black day." This is a day when those who
> would work against us have left. This is a day in which the some
> closet-scheming cives can finally be exposed to the light of day,
> their plans made plain for all to see so that we may see clear
> examples of anti-Romanitas at work.

It's awfully hard to respond to this statement without resorting to
unfortunate four-letter words. The fact that you accuse the likes of
Aelius and Mucius Scaevola of being un-Roman only shows how little you
knew those who left recently.

> This is also a day when we can celebrate the approval more new,
> quality citizens. This is a day when we can celebrate a great
> year of service from cives like Quintus Sertorius. This is a day
> when we see new members such as Gaius Cassius Nerva join us. This
> is a day when we see excellent work being done in our various
> Sodalitas. This is a day when we can offer thanks and gratitude
> for our noble magistrates.

Yes! And apparently, it is also a day when we can spew invectives at
those who have recently left after much soul-searching and, in some
cases, several years of exemplary service. Nova Roma is strong enough
to survive without demonizing those who chose to leave her. Indeed,
Nova Roma is that strong in part due to the efforts of many of them.

> In short; for the newer cives who may read this -NR is a great place
> to live and is still represents an ideal, and a worthy goal for us to
> aspire to.

Yes! It is also a place run by human beings. Humans are fallible, and
their failings lead them to disagree on things. Such disagreements do
not necessarily make them evil. Those who left today are worthy of
respect, and Nova Roma has, indeed, suffered a loss.

> There are hundreds of us- all over the world, united in
> building this great nation. Among these numbers there are dozens if
> not hundreds feverishly working in various social groups and in
> provincial venues to make it an exciting and worthy place to be.
> These mi amices and Romani are far better and more productive
> things to focus on.

Yes! Let us get on with this work, rather than feeling the need to say
hateful things about those who have, for various reasons, chosen not to
work with us.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus
Senator et Tribunus Plebis
Quondam Rogator et Scriba Censorialis et Accensus Consularis
--
"People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach
conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant."
-Helen Keller


Subject:	[novaroma] Perspective
From:	"Acadien Errant" <acadienerrant@-------->
Date:	Thu, 15 Mar 2001 18:45:15 -0600

Salvete Omnes Novi Romani, Cives Amicique,

I must say that the multiple resignations which I discovered upon checking
my NR e-mail took me somewhat by surprise. However, considering the views
presented, I believe that this realignment may augur the best for all
concerned, both those who have left Nova Roma and those who remain.

It seems to me that perhaps the ideological differences and expectations
between certain hard-working and respected Cives have widened to such a
point that a dissolution of the partnership between those dissatisfied with
the perceived �direction� of the Republic and those who are not so unhappy
is the most beneficial and intelligent course. My professional career is in
the field of Family Law. While it is always tragic to see a long-time
partnership dissolve, it is nonetheless not always in the worst interests of
all parties that it be so. When ideals and expectations grow so far apart
as to breed antipathy and even intense hatred rather than comradeship then,
if reconciliation is not possible (as it seems certainly to be in this
instance), a parting of the ways may prove to be the only expedient and
reasonable means of ensuring the happiness of all parties involved.

To those who have left, I wish you well in your chosen course. To those who
remain, perhaps a serious concentration on the ancient Virtues and values of
Eternal Rome can now become a focus rather than a constant rehashing of what
to some has been a too-exuberant effort to drag Ancient Rome into a modern
quagmire of the �Me First!� version of social anarchy, and a morass of
perpetual wrangling over how to remake Ancient Rome into the image and
likeness of post-modern civic experimentation.

May Nova Roma continue to prosper and grow. And may the *Roman* Virtues,
and not the transitory desires and whims of lesser and less noble
�civilisations,� prevail! Salvete, Dei Romae, Civitatem nostram et Civibus
Eius dignissimis pacem donate!

Valete, et omnibus optimis vobiscum,
Acadianus Draco

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[novaroma] excuse me. I wish to speak-
From:	asseri@--------
Date:	Thu, 15 Mar 2001 21:56:46 EST

Greetings,
In the passage of time I have been able to experience many of life
hardships. No one gets what they want all the time. Life is inherently faulty
it is blessedly imperfect. You have be patient and let change happen. The
only way to make change useful is to stay the course and help. This can take
a very long time.
To be honest so many leaving on the same day looks staged. Well, it is
not impressive or awe inspiring. What it looks like is "If you won't play the
way I want I am going to take my ball and go home!" I can tell you as a nanny
for ten years-GO HOME!
If you not happy of course leave. Your not any good for your self and
others if your miserable. Whenever I witness such behavior (seen it in the
SCA a lot over the years) I wish I could make you all see how redundant it
all looks. You leave when you can make the most of your self and contribute
to your Gens and community Yet you walk away......
Anything worth having is worth fighting for. Nova Roma is not always
going to do things as I would like but I accept that as part of a greater
community. One that is so very young and has a long way to go. One that I
intend to be there for.

If my words seem foolish or uneducated I can only say that I too speak from
my heart and soul.
Prima Anncina Drusila

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[novaroma] Consul Vedius speaks about the resignations
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Thu, 15 Mar 2001 21:29:17 -0500

Salvete, omnes;

It is, of course, unfortunate that seven of our Citizens have chosen to
leave us in such a public and obviously well-choreographed manner. I fully
agree with my colleague Marcus Cassius that more are likely to follow in the
next day or two. I would, however, remind everyone that this is not the
first time that we have suffered the loss of well-liked and contributing
Citizens, nor will it be the last.

Such losses have been regular events in our history, and for the most part
have a single underlying cause, whatever the stated reasons or precipitating
incidents may be. When people first join Nova Roma, they are usually full of
enthusiasm, having found a place which endeavors to restore Romanitas and
the Roman Virtues, and all the magnificent aspects of Roman culture. In the
vast majority of cases, they find just what they are looking for, and settle
in as happy and contributing Citizens.

In a small minority of cases, however, some people expect to find in Nova
Roma a mirror of themselves and their own preconceptions of what Rome was,
or perhaps should be. Often these individuals are quite knowledgeable about
things Roman, and are able to make substantial contributions to Nova Roma
during their stay. However, their disappointment in not finding Nova Roma as
they had envisioned it often overcomes their enthusiasm and they depart.

Is this a bad thing? No. It is simply the way things are. We should thank
such individuals for the contributions they are able to make, and part on
amicable terms, if they are willing. Sometimes that's the case, and
sometimes not. Sometimes they re-evaluate their decision and return. In any
case, Nova Roma has endured such departures, as it will these.

In the current case, the seeds of this mass walk-out were months in the
making, having its roots, I believe, just before last year's elections.
Indeed, if anything, it points up the devastating effect that factions can
have on a society such as ours, as I had campaigned against last December.
Seeing that their own views were so far out of touch with those of the vast
majority of other Nova Romans, a certain group have apparently decided to
leave en masse. I should add that this is hardly a spur-of-the-moment act;
the preparations have apparently been in the works for weeks, calculated to
show the rest of us how "wrong" we are for not agreeing with them.

Do I regret their leaving? Yes. I would have much preferred to have their
knowledge being used to help further the development of our Republic. Do I
appreciate those contributions they have made hitherto? Of course; and I
thank each and every one of them for what they have done on our behalf. Do I
mourn their loss? No. They are doubtless going to be infinitely happier
_not_ in Nova Roma, and our own society will doubtless be better off without
a core of people who are so dissatisfied with the way things are, and their
inability to alter things to their liking. Such tension is not helpful on
either side.

I salute those who have left, and will leave, and thank them for what they
have done on Nova Roma's behalf. I wish them, honestly, happiness in their
future endeavors.

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

"For Gracchus, hatred of the Patrician class is a profession, and not such a
bad one." (Crassus, in the film "Spartacus")

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
ICQ: 106199729
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Salvete
From:	Piparskegg UllRsson <catamount_grange@-------->
Date:	Thu, 15 Mar 2001 20:54:49 -0600

Salve Nerva!

gcassiusnerva@-------- wrote:
>
> I'm "official" today as the newest Cassii. I'm looking forward to talking to
> you all.
>
> Gaius Cassius Nerva
>

A sign of hope! Welcome.

--
===========================================
In Amicus sub Fidelis, Benedicte Omnes!
- Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
Cives, Paterfamilias Gens Ulleria
Qu�stor, Legate, Dominus Sodalis


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Reaffirmation of my Citizenship
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Thu, 15 Mar 2001 20:28:58 -0600 (CST)

I reaffirm my citizenship and swear my loyalty to Nova Roma.

I condemn the actions of those who conspired together to resign
en masse as a calculated attempt to embarrass and damage our
Republic.

I condemn the pettiness of those Senators who resigned when
they didn't get their way on a bitterly debated item -- because
they themselves had missed the voting period through their
own poor planning.

I ask Iuppiter Optimus Maximus to watch over and protect our
Republic in this dark hour.

Ave Roma Aeterna!

Marcus Octavius Germanicus, Senator.

--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Not So!-not you Pompeia!
From:	"Oppius Flaccus Severus" <oppiusflaccus@-------->
Date:	Thu, 15 Mar 2001 19:02:54 -0800

Salvete Pompeia et Quiritibus;

No disrespect or intimation of contradiction on
your part was intended Pompeia!

The post was an attempt to redirect some of the
focus away from the attempted martyrdom of the recent
resignees. My post was actually a 'generalized' message
to everyone and the new cives as well to point to a
little different perspective and it is hoped,
to allow those without any recent political
history in Nova Roma to try and understand
the actions of a very small yet highly collaborative
number of our members.

I know you publicly and personally to be of the highest
Roman honor and ideals and will gladly say here publicly that you
are worthy of nothing but veneration.

Bene valete,
-Oppius

-----Original Message-----
From: Pompeia Cornelia [mailto:scriba_forum@--------]
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 6:11 PM
To: NovaRoma@--------
Subject: [novaroma] Not So!

Salve Oppius Flaccus et alii:

Just to clarify, Oppius, I made my comments approx. 1/2 hour before our
Consul spoke, so my remarks can and should not be construed as an attempt to
condradict him.

The main point of my discourse was that a loss of so many citizens in a
given day is not the norm, and that in itself, is not a good sign,
regardless of one's political or personal point of view. I don't think I am
that far off the mark. At one point or another, these citizens have
contributed positively to the growth of Nova Roma. That is an inalterable
fact.

I applaud the Consul's ideas about a sodalitas to study the practicality of
the Roman virtues. May it burst at the seams with attendance. I shall be
the first to get "in line" to join up.

Bene Vale,
Pompeia Cornelia

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Happy novaroman birthday Quinte! :-)
From:	"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@-------->
Date:	Thu, 15 Mar 2001 20:08:10 -0600

Thank you very much Lucius! I do appreciate it, and I will work hard for our
Republic, and ensure its continued growth.

QS

----- Original Message -----
From: <octavianuslucius@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 8:16 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Happy novaroman birthday Quinte! :-)

> Salve mi optime amice Quinte
>
> Happy novaroman birthday :-) my friend. I wish you a succesful year
> as propraetor and as novaroman.
>
> Cura ut valeas
> Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
>
> --- In novaroma@--------, "Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@h...>
> wrote:
> > 15 Mar 2001
> >
> > Salve All
> >
> > This day is a very important one for me. On this date last year I
> was accepted as a Citizen of Nova Roma!.... The world has turned
> over many times since then, but my love for Roma has only increased.
> I hope that I can continue to contribute to our micro-nation at least
> as much in the future as I have in the past. When I found out I was a
> Citizen I was holding my 3 week old daughter, the one that we where
> told would never be born, and now she is as strong and healthy as my
> feeling for Roma!.... So... I hope this day leaves all of us with
> some small special memory that everyone can keep with themselves
> forever.
> >
> > P.S.
> > I think, but I am not sure, this day in history holds some other
> less important event! ;-)
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > Quintus Sertorius
> >
> > Queastor
> > Nova Roma
> > Propraetor
> > Canada Occidentalis
> >
> > Join the Main List for Nova Roma
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
> >
> > Join the egroup for Canada Occidentalis
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_CanOcc
> >
> > Join the egroup for the Quintus Sertorius of Old Rome
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sertorii
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Keep the recent resignations in Perspective
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Thu, 15 Mar 2001 21:12:06 -0600 (CST)

Salve Senator Tite Labiene,

> I knew that messages like this would appear in response to the
> resignations that occurred earlier today. However, I didn't expect them
> from someone I generally consider reasonable and level-headed man. To
> say that Nova Roma is strong, that its goals are worthwhile, and that it
> is worth working for is a good response to today's events. To cast
> aspersions upon a group of very worthy people is neither necessary nor
> desirable.

I think this series of resignations has been very stressful for all of
us left behind. We have seen a number of prominent citizens leave in
a matter of a few hours. This has weakened our Republic and, although
we will recover, as we recovered from the unfortunate events two years
ago, it is understandable that there will be some anger at those who
have caused this crisis.

I don't think any of us wish anything ill toward those who have
departed. But emotions are naturally running high right now, and
there will be some harsh words.

Vale, Octavius.

--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Reaffirmation of my Citizenship
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Thu, 15 Mar 2001 22:11:37 -0500

Salvete;

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus [mailto:haase@--------]
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 9:29 PM
>
> I ask Iuppiter Optimus Maximus to watch over and protect our
> Republic in this dark hour.

I would add that this evening I made sacrifice on my home lararium to both
the spirit of Iulius Divus (in honor of the anniversary of his assasination)
and Concordia, that our Res Publica rise above the current unpleasantness
and be strengthened and find a new spirit of unity and peace in the wake of
these resignations.

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Cive


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Salvete
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Thu, 15 Mar 2001 22:14:09 -0500

Indeed; an image that even in the midst of loss, growth still happens.

Germanicus

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Piparskegg UllRsson [mailto:catamount_grange@--------]
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 9:55 PM
> To: novaroma@--------
> Subject: Re: [novaroma] Salvete
>
>
> Salve Nerva!
>
> gcassiusnerva@-------- wrote:
> >
> > I'm "official" today as the newest Cassii. I'm looking forward
> to talking to
> > you all.
> >
> > Gaius Cassius Nerva
> >
>
> A sign of hope! Welcome.
>
> --
> ===========================================
> In Amicus sub Fidelis, Benedicte Omnes!
> - Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
> Cives, Paterfamilias Gens Ulleria
> Qu�stor, Legate, Dominus Sodalis


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Keep the recent resignations in Perspective
From:	Piparskegg UllRsson <catamount_grange@-------->
Date:	Thu, 15 Mar 2001 21:23:31 -0600

Heill og saell Men and Women of Rome,

I come to you today as I am, a Man of the North living in friendship amongst ye of Southern Blood
and Heritage.

I should like to caution slowness in deciding the effect which these resignations will have on Nova
Roma.

Every society aborning has growing pains. Each community is not the place for everyone, no matter
the nobility of spirit in which the open hand was, and is, presented. My friends in the Theodish
Belief Community (Anglo-Saxon, Frisian, Norman, and so forth) expect such losses. So, while I shall
miss the words and wisdom of those departed, they are individuals, not the Community. The
Community, any Community, goes on in spite of men and women coming and going. Sometimes, what
appears to be an Eden for expression of that which is within, is an unfertile and untillable field
of personal woe.

I am here because I believe in the Idea of a New Rome, for Romans and we who can be as Friends,
Pagan or not, Scholar or not, Politician or not...

If I may?
Many Heathen organizations have their lists of the Nine Noble Virtues, in spirit, similar to those
of Rome.
A little list of anti-virtues I presented on a couple of Heathen lists when things got a bit too hot
and heavy.

The Nine Ignoble Thews - (NITs)

1. Rumor is better than Fact.
2. Backbiting is better than Cooperation.
3. Chest Thumping is better than Listening.
4. Nitpicking is better than Building.
5. Narrow Minded Focus is better than a Broad View
6. Unsubstantiated Accusation is better than Direct Conversation.
7. Flinging Epithets is better than Asking For Clarification.
8. Digging At Sore Points is better than Solving The Problem
9. Self Aggrandizement is better than The Good Of The Community

Just some observations from over 25 years traveling amongst a variety of Pagan, Neo-Pagan, Heathen
and related Communities.

And this last bit:
"We have only two eyes, but ten fingers. We sometimes write and do not see." - Piparskeggrsmal

May All that is Holy Bless and Keep this Ne City.

--
===========================================
In Frith under Troth, may the Gods see you!
- Piparskeggr skjaldberi Ullar
AFA - AA - ORV
Tribalist Asatruar and traveler.
Known to the Romans as
- Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator


Subject:	[novaroma] I too Reaffirm my Citizenship
From:	"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@-------->
Date:	Thu, 15 Mar 2001 21:23:56 -0600

15 Mar 2001

Salve All

As this day draws to a close I stand before all and reaffirm my commitment as a Citizen of Nova Roma, to work for her betterment and growth.... The sun will rise tomorrow,... less some former citizens but plus some new ones! I ask you all, which nation, aspiring for rebirth and greatness, has not felt internal struggle? Let us remember those that left for their contributions to our Republic.

Vale

Quintus Sertorius

Queastor
Nova Roma
Propraetor
Canada Occidentalis

Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma

Join the egroup for Canada Occidentalis
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_CanOcc

Join the egroup for the Quintus Sertorius of Old Rome
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sertorii

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[novaroma] Mithracon is almost upon us!
From:	"J. T. Sibley" <jrsibley@-------->
Date:	Thu, 15 Mar 2001 23:33:10 -0500

Avete omnes!

Mithracon IV, focusing on the mystery religions and
cults of the Roman Empire, will be held on the weekend
of April 6-8. If any cives plan to attend and haven't
sent in their con registration fees, would you please
chuck 'em into the mail? I'm trying to arrange a
speaker from Yale University, and need all the loot I
can get so's we can pay the honorarium. Already a
number of Nova Romans plan to come, so this should be
an interesting weekend!

If you need me to re-post the information, let me know?
Thanks!

Valete,
S. Ambrosia Fulvia


Subject:	[novaroma] Past Resignations
From:	jmath669642reng@--------
Date:	Thu, 15 Mar 2001 23:14:36 -0500 (EST)

Salvete, My Friends and Citizens;

I am very sad and dsappointed tonight that more friends have withdrawn
from Nova Roma. I am particularly sad because they have chosen to go,
without at least leaving some indication behind of what could have been
done to prevent these things. All were provided with the ability and
option to discuss fully the problems as they saw them and all were in
possession of the facilities to have placed before the Senate the
instruments by which to better our micronation.

I have carefully read all of the resignations and while they give me
some ideas in regard to general attitudes in regard to thier actions, I
am left in much the same confusion as many of you.

I do not imply that I disagree with the foregoing decisions of those who
have left. They have the right to leave and according to our laws and
rules, there is no one to keep them nor in fact any method or reason for
that restriction. We all therefore feel the loss in a significant way,
and we all grieve in our own way for these decisions which have deprived
us of our friends and colleagues. We must, however, realize that they
have made a choice which they believe will be a better one for them, and
no-one may second guess that.

I would only ask this of those who have departed Nova Roma:

I ask that you share with me the ideas that you believe would have made
it bearable for you to stay with Nova Roma, to work and to play with her
and to enjoy the friends and colleagues that you have made here. If you
will agree to share such with me, I pledge that I will not reveal any of
your comments (without your express permission) to those whom you named
in your resignations. I further pledge that I will work within Nova
Roma to try to bring about conditions that would have met your needs
while you were here for, the benefit of those who remain. If I am a
part of the cause which decided you to leave, I would also ask that you
tell me about that, as well, so that perhaps I may look to an
improvement of my probable shortcomings in some small way. You all have
toiled hard for Nova Roma while you were here, and you were my friends
and colleagues. Will you not give me the chance, for the mutual respect
in which we held each other, to provide me that opportunity?? (For the
benefit of the NR Citizens, I will send this to each of the resignees
personnally.

In closing, my friends I am grieved to lose your friendship, and I am
grieved to see you leave. I hope for your responses to this post, and
for the greatest possible success in your future endeavors.

Vale, Respectfully and Regretfully;
Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Reaffirmation of my Citizenship
From:	"Teleri ferch Nyfain" <rckovak@-------->
Date:	Thu, 15 Mar 2001 23:30:19 -0500

Salvete,

Consul Cassia stated:

<<< I can only close by saying that as an individual, I LIKE
Nova Roma, even when political issues become difficult. I'd put up with more
problems than we've ever had, or are likely to ever see, for the chance to
rebuild something "real" as opposed to a "historical interest" group. Nova
Roma has brought Romanitas into my life in a way that no other form of
organization ever could. I believe I'm not alone in expressing such a
sentiment. >>>

I, too, like Nova Roma, because it promises something real. As such, I echo
Lucius Sicinius Drusus
and publicly reaffirm my citizenship in Nova Roma!

Valete,
Helena Galeria Aureliana
Curator Differum


Subject:	[novaroma] Past Resignations
From:	jmath669642reng@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 00:02:50 -0500 (EST)

Salvete, My Friends and Citizens;

I am very sad and disappointed tonight that more friends have withdrawn
from Nova Roma. I am particularly sad because they have chosen to go,
without at least leaving some indication behind of what could have been
done to prevent these things. All were provided with the ability and
option to discuss fully the problems as they saw them and all were in
possession of the facilities to have placed before the Senate the
instruments by which to better our micronation.

I have carefully read all of the resignations and while they give me
some ideas in regard to general attitudes in regard to thier actions, I
am left in much the same confusion as many of you, in regard to what
could have been done to prevent them. The unhappiness is quite
apparent. The reasons, to me at least, are not.

I do not imply that I disagree with the foregoing decisions of those who
have left. They have the right to leave and according to our laws and
rules, there is no one to keep them nor in fact any method or reason for
that restriction. We all therefore feel the loss in a personal and
significant way, and we all grieve in our own hearts for these decisions
which have deprived us of our friends and colleagues. We must, however,
realize that they have made a choice which they believe will be a better
one for them, and no-one may second guess that.

I would only ask this of those who have departed Nova Roma:

I ask that you share with me the ideas that you believe would have made
it bearable for you to stay with Nova Roma, to work and to play with her
and to enjoy the friends and colleagues that you have made here. If you
will agree to share such with me, I pledge that I will work within Nova
Roma to try to bring about conditions that would have met your needs
while you were here for the benefit of those who remain. If I am a part
of the cause which decided you to leave, I would also ask that you tell
me about that, as well, so that perhaps I may look to an improvement of
my probable shortcomings in some small way.

You all have toiled hard for Nova Roma while you were here, and you were
my friends and colleagues. Will you not give me the chance, for the
mutual respect in which we held each other, to provide me the above
opportunity to the best of my ability?? (For the benefit of the NR
Citizens, I will send this to each of the resignees personnally.)

In closing, my friends I am grieved to lose your friendship, and I am
grieved to see you leave. I hope for your responses to this post, and
for the greatest possible success in your future endeavors.

Vale, Respectfully and Regretfully;
Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary


Subject:	[novaroma] Reflections on the resignations
From:	bcatfd@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 05:12:06 -0000

Salvete,

Like other citizens, I too am saddened by the recent spate of
resignations. I am especially saddened by the loss last week of Caius
Aelius Ericius and Nicolaus Moravius Vado. These two were gentlemen
who generally kept their cool and their heads above the fray during
the worst of disagreements. I will always be grateful to Ericius for
his open mind and levelheadedness as a newly minted senator in the
wake of the dictatorship. He made my job as sole consul easier during
a perilous time though he disagreed with much of the proceedings.

Vado is a man whose knowledge of all things Roman far exceeds mine
and I will miss his observations on Rome, ancient and Nova.

However, in the ongoing history of Nova Roma, this is hardly a
speedbump, let alone a crisis. Nova Roma has had far blacker days,
such as the resignation of Germanicus in our 6th month or the so-
called Social Wars (the dictatorship) of 1999. Nova Roma survived
those events and will this one. Nova Roma grows larger, more stable
and stronger each month. If there ever was a time when a single
person or a handful of people were indispensable to Nova Roma, that
time is long past.

The event that triggered the resignations, the vote on Livia's
governorship, is partially the fault of some of the resignees.
Several of them were senators and they failed to vote. If one, just
one of them, had voted, then Livia would have been prorogued. We
senators who voted against her did as we thought was right. Several
of her supporters in the senate did not bother to do the same.

Anyway, Nova Roma moves on. Some have said that those who left will
be better off, as will Nova Roma. Perhaps, but I think they are
missing the point. Nova Roma is the New Rome, the spritual descendent
and heir of the Roman/Classical Pagan world, the home for all those
who seek to revive the best of the ancient Roman world. We are a
nation, albeit a micronation, and we are an extended family. We are
the poorer for losing these people of like mind and they are much the
poorer for exiling themselves from this center of Romanitas, flawed
that it may be.

However, Nova Roma survives,

Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus,

Senator, Pontifex, Consularis


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Resignation
From:	SlymnestraRose@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 00:32:27 EST

Salve,

Not you to Pisci? If you must then, you'll be missed.....I hope we can still
keep though, not everyday someone sends me a pic of their fishpond :-).

Vale,
Aeternia

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Salvete
From:	SlymnestraRose@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 00:52:31 EST

Salve,

You know, Nerva is a really cool name..I just had to say that :-).. In any
case, welcome to Nova Roma...If you need anything feel free to e-mail me.

Vale,
Aeternia

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] excuse me. I wish to speak-
From:	SlymnestraRose@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 01:04:21 EST

Salve,

I had to read this post twice to understand it's full meaning....Prima, no
way are you unedcuated I refuse to believe a such thing....Speaking from the
heart is the purest honesty, and many have spoken their thoughts today, and
you had every right to speak yours..

Vale,
Aeternia

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[novaroma] A very gray day in my life
From:	Craig Stevenson <dougies@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 16:45:50 +1030

Ave quirites, et pater conscripti,

Today I came home expecting the usual e-mails to be here in abundance, and the
thought of dredging through debates of taxes and religious questions made me
think.

But to come home and find these resignations, of people I knew well and
respected. I know find my world very darkened. People I respected, Piscinus,
Livia, Vado....all gone! People who offered me sage advice during my beginning
years, who helped me pick up the peices when I was down....now, they are no
longer there to turn to, to joke with, to discuss all things Roman with. I am
very saddened, more so because I had no idea that this was going to
happen.....they will be truly missed.

As for the comments of Quintus Fabius Maximus, you seem to know little of
Piscinus and the person he truly was. He was worthy of respect, despite what you
had against him. And to criticise someone, to insult them like this when they
are gone, I find extremely reprehensible! I would suggest to you that tact in
this matter would have been a wiser course, and yet from all accounts that I
have heard, that is a singular talent that you seem to lack. All humans, until
proven otherwise, are worthy of respect and of dignity. You have diminished the
dignity of a great person, and I find nothing whatsoever to admire, or to
respect in that. I don't want to start anything personal, but it does rather
seem as if you are attacking a man when his back is turned, does it not?

I find that my world is much emptier for their absence, their guidance, wit and
humor. I wish them well in whatever endeavours they choose to persue, and I hope
that the gods are with them to guide them on their future course.

Vale, with a heavy heart,

Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Resignation speech of Marcus Marcius Rex
From:	gaiuscoriolanus@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 06:45:33 -0000

Salvete omnes

It's really a black day in history of Nova Roma. I'm very sad to see
that so much great citizens have decided to leave our comunity. It is
also very disappointing to see that you Marcus Marcius Rex has
decided leave us too.

But life goes on. Some citizens still remains and it's our duty, to
keep republic in run. This secessio is a remarkable day and we must
take lesson from it.

Bene valete

Gaius Marcius Coriolanus
Legatus Pannonia Inferioris

--- In novaroma@--------, RexMarcius@a... wrote:
> Salvete patres et matres conscripti Senatus Novae Romae!
> Salvete cives Novae Romae!
> Salvete members of Gens Marcia!
>
> "Nec illi arduum ac difficile est inter arma contraria, inter
destrictos
> conminus mucrones placidum iter reperire" (Valerius Maximus)
>
> Today is a day of grave meaning for Rome: The Ides of March have
arrived...
>
> Already several great men and women have chosen to take
the "placidum iter"
> mentioned above and leave Nova Roma. Why they have elected to do so
may not
> be clear for many but they certainly have reasons for it, you can
take my
> word for it.
>
> I could also write about a lot of things and persons I came to
dislike about
> Nova Roma in the last few months. But after Senator Aelius's
departure and
> after the way my daughter Livia was treated by the Senate I knew
that before
> long not enough would be left here that I really liked and that
would make it
> worthwhile to stay.
>
> I, therefore, also made a decision to leave this Community and to
share my
> Romanitas only with those people I could really associate myself
with. I mean
> I could live with an Octavius, a Cassius and certainly with a
Minucius Audens
> but I can only leave with a Germanicus, a Fabulus Maximus and a
Pornelius
> Sulla.
>
> So by this notice I formally resign and depose myself
>
> from the citizenship of Nova Roma
>
> from the Senatorial seat I possess
>
> from the Praetorian scribe position
>
> and from my paterfamilias power of gens Marcia which is to go to my
son
> Coriolanus as my last will
>
> I also waive my reconsideration period of nine days, so that this
becomes
> effective immediately.
>
> so happened on the ides of March 2754 AUC
>
> Marcus Heinz=
> Marcus Marcius Rex


Subject:	[novaroma] Reaffirmation of my Citizenship
From:	Lucilla Cornelia Cinna <CorneliaLucilla@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 10:35:24 +0100

Quiritibus NovaRomanis atque magistratibus nostris Lucilla Cornelia
Cinna salutem

Equidem re publica a tantis civibus illustribus uno die relicta
privataque volo affirmare me dis iuvantibus civem NovaRomanam esse atque
manere.

Praeterea ex animi mei sententia iuro sine ira et studio officiis meis
muneribusque fungi nec deesse umquam et rei publicae nostrae semper
servire neque ea potiri, nec cupiditate gloriae potestatisque aut
pertinacia corrumpi.

iam diu res publica nostra eis malis laborabat neque civitas otio bonis
memoriae Romae antiquae fruebantur. quamquam et mihi dolendum est quod
tanti feminae virique illustres rem publicam nostram reliquerunt, tamen
spero ut deis faventibus Nova Roma vivat crescat floreat.

----------------------------

In light of the fact the res publica NovaRomana is left and deprived of
so many famous cives in one day , I want to affirm that I - with the
help of the Godesses and Gods - am still and I will stay cives Novaromana.

Apart from that, from my heart I swear that I will fulfill my offices
and duties without blind zeal or hatred and never fail, and I will
always serve our res publica and not usurp her, and I will not be
tempted by greed for glory, power, or by a know-it-all attitude.

For too long our res publica has been suffering from those troubles and
the civitas has never settled down and enjoyed the memory of ancient
Rome. Albeit even I have to feel sorry that so many famous women and
men have left our republic, however, I hope that - with the help of the
Godesses and Gods - Nova Roma will live, grow and prosper.

---------------------------

Angesichts der Tatsache, da� die res publica von Nova Roma an einem tag
von so vielen bekannten B�rgern verlassen und ihrer beraubt wurde, will
ich bek�ftigen, da� ich - so die G�ttinnen und G�tter mir beistehen -
eine cives NovaRomana bin und bleiben werde.

Au�erdem schw�re ich aus tiefster �berzeugung, da� ich mein �mter und
Pflichten ohne blinden Eifer oder Ha� erf�llen und nicht versagen werde,
da� ich unserer res publica immer dienen und nicht nach der Macht
greifen werde, und da� ich nicht verdorben werde durch die Gier nach
Ruhm, Macht oder durch Rechthaberei.

Zu lange schon hat unsere res publica leiden m�ssen an diesen Mi�st�nden
und die B�rgerschaft ist nie zur Ruhe gekommen und konnte sich an den
Erinnerungen an das alte Rom erfreuen. Obwohl auch ich mit Bedauern
sehen mu�, da� so viele ber�hmte Frauen und M�nner unsere res publica
verlassen haben, hoffe ich dennoch, da� - mit der Hilfe der G�tter -
Nova Roma leben, wachsen und bl�hen wird.

Optime valete, quirites

Lucilla Cornelia Cinna
Quaestrix Praetori C. Falvio Diocletiano
Retiaria pro tempore Sodalitatis Egressus
Musaea collegiorum Calliopes atque Clius Sodalitatis Musarum
Civis NovaRomana provinciam Germaniam inhabitans

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Piscinus' Resignation
From:	"Natasha" <natashaaiken@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:42:50 -0000

> Well Gnaeus Moravius Piscinus,
> We will miss the others. We will not miss you. And how like the
rat you
> are, leaving Nova Roma in the dead of night after all the Honorable
Romans
> left in daylight.
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus

Salvete all,

I just want to reprint this post as evidence of the sort of petty,
nasty, sarcastic attitude that characterises some in Nova Roma, to
say you would not miss someone is fair enough but to call someone a
rat for such a stupid reason is appalling and anyone that feels this
is acceptable behaviour is just as bad!

To be quite honest the petty politics in Nova Roma did not really
bother me, I like the idea of a society that has many political
viewpoints but it has been obvious to me there has been only one
political view that is allowed to be heard in Nova Roma, with a great
majority of citizens keeping quiet and just letting them get on with
their power role playing game.

What upsets me personally though is the nasty and saracstic attitude
of Priscilla Vedia, Flavius Vedius Germanicus and the person above
who has such an extraordinary bad and nasty attitude that I cannot
believe he is able to cope in any society except a virtual one.
I have seen cives in Nova Roma being treated with the utmost lack of
respect by the two Vedia and what shocks me is the fact that none of
you have the courage to take them to task and say that their
behaviour is unacceptable.

Perhaps I have been brought up too old-fashioned, but my mother
taught me manners, she taught me not to humble and demean others just
because I have the power to do so and even now that I am writing this
rather critical email I am unsure of it because it is very rude but I
feel it needs to be said.

Along with most of my family and their friends I also resign my
citizenship of this sad micro-nation that i was hoping was far more
then it actually turned out to be.

vale all, most of you are good people but you have no desire to fight
against tyranny and that is wrong.

Natasha Aiken (formally Natalia Moravia)

--- In novaroma@--------, sfp55@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 3/15/2001 5:44:19 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> piscinus@-------- writes:
>
> << There is very little I might add to the comments already made
by
> Ericius, Scaevola Magister, Marcius Rex, Livia Marcia, and of
course my
> mater and pater familias Aletheia and Nicholaus Moravius Vado.
These
> have been and remain the most honorable individuals I have come to
know
> in Nova Roma. <<
>
> Well Gnaeus Moravius Piscinus,
> We will miss the others. We will not miss you. And how like the
rat you
> are, leaving Nova Roma in the dead of night after all the Honorable
Romans
> left in daylight.
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus


Subject:	[novaroma] Resignations
From:	Marcus Papirius Justus <papirius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 05:29:06 -0500

While it grieves me to see so many talented folks desiring to retire,
especially my fellow jurisconsultus Scaevola (and one cannot help but
wonder if they might not have been inflicted with aquae et ignis
interdictio if the mechanism existed here), it seems to me that quite a few
among the senatorial order might do well to be sacrificing and/or praying
to Concordia ... perhaps its time to vow a temple.

mpj


Subject:	[novaroma] Resignations
From:	alexanderprobus@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:03:55 -0000

Salvete omnes,

What and how to say how I feel the resignations of so honourable
citizens? There are amounts of words to be said , but is there any
sence to speak? I wish our colleagues and friends all the best in
their lifes. As for me, I cover my head in grieve and sorrow. I would
like to announce that I need few days to recover and will be not
available on net.

Valete

Alexander I.C. Probus


Subject:	[novaroma] Yet another posting on resignations
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <amg@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:03:37 -0000

Salvete omnes

I'm here to say that all of those who say they left because of NR politics
are lying. If they wanted they could overlook politics just as I've been
doing in the recent months. I have realized that my main interest in Nova
Roma is the Religio Romana. Since then I have been less and less involved in
politics. Why didn't they do the same? I tell you... It's because they only
like politics when they have the power in their hands.
Don't be affraid of the resignations. They were just a couple of Caesars who
decided to die (this time voluntarily) in Ides of March. Now they have all
freedom to be the Caesars in a new Roman society.

Valete omnes
Antonius Gryllus Graecus


Subject:	[novaroma] ATTN (Religio Romana): ante diem XVII Kalendas Aprilias (March 16)
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <amg@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:11:12 -0000

Salvete

This is a dies fasti (F), on which legal actions are permitted.

On this starts a procession (procession of the Argei) that goes through the
shrines of the Argei; they were brought to twenty-seven special shrines
throughout the four Servian regions of Roma in a preparatory rite. The Argei
themselves are human-shaped bundles of rushes that are thrown into the river
later in the year (the Argeis in Maius). The Flaminica Dialis
participates with her hair loose as a sign of mourning. The Procession
continues the on the next day.

This is also the a day of the Bacchanalia dedicated to Bacchus/Dionysus. the
Romans celebrated the Bacchanalia publicly until 186 BC, when it was banned.

The month of March belongs to Mars, who personifies
the protection of the state and the productivity of the community.

Pax Deorum Vobiscum

Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex


Subject:	[novaroma] I Shall step forward
From:	V_Praetoria@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 03:54:21 -0000

My fellow citizens,
I may be a new member, but by no means am I a novice. With the
recent resignations, it seems that it is a time for strong canidates
to step forward to save our Republic. So I do hereby step forward
and announce that I will do what ever it takes to aid in saving the
Republic. You may call on me, and my Society, in any way need. I
shall do my part.

Pontius Sejanus Marius
Prefect, Legio VI
Founder, Roman Historical Society


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] One Year!
From:	Mia <tuozine@-------->
Date:	Thu, 15 Mar 2001 23:46:17 -0500

Congratulations on your anniversary! And happy belated birthday to your
daughter as well.

Ursula Numeria Fortunata

Quintus Sertorius wrote:
>
> 15 Mar 2001
>
> Salve All
>
> This day is a very important one for me. On this date last year I was
> accepted as a Citizen of Nova Roma!.... The world has turned over
> many times since then, but my love for Roma has only increased. I hope
> that I can continue to contribute to our micro-nation at least as much
> in the future as I have in the past. When I found out I was a Citizen
> I was holding my 3 week old daughter, the one that we where told would
> never be born, and now she is as strong and healthy as my feeling for
> Roma!.... So... I hope this day leaves all of us with some small
> special memory that everyone can keep with themselves forever.
>
> P.S.
> I think, but I am not sure, this day in history holds some other less
> important event! ;-)
>
> Vale
>
> Quintus Sertorius
>
> Queastor
> Nova Roma
> Propraetor
> Canada Occidentalis
>
> Join the Main List for Nova Roma
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
>
> Join the egroup for Canada Occidentalis
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_CanOcc
>
> Join the egroup for the Quintus Sertorius of Old Rome
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sertorii
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> [Classmates.com]
> Click here for Classmates.com
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--

Mia
ICQ#93586029


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] One Year!
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 03:34:30 -0800

Ave,

Let me offer you congratulations, ProPraetor Q. Sertorius, since I was
the one who approved your citizenship last year! :) Its been a pleasure
to work with you, and hopefully as the years go on and on...may we
always have an excellent working relationship!

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor of Nova Roma

Mia wrote:
>
> Congratulations on your anniversary! And happy belated birthday to your
> daughter as well.
>
> Ursula Numeria Fortunata
>
> Quintus Sertorius wrote:
> >
> > 15 Mar 2001
> >
> > Salve All
> >
> > This day is a very important one for me. On this date last year I was
> > accepted as a Citizen of Nova Roma!.... The world has turned over
> > many times since then, but my love for Roma has only increased. I hope
> > that I can continue to contribute to our micro-nation at least as much
> > in the future as I have in the past. When I found out I was a Citizen
> > I was holding my 3 week old daughter, the one that we where told would
> > never be born, and now she is as strong and healthy as my feeling for
> > Roma!.... So... I hope this day leaves all of us with some small
> > special memory that everyone can keep with themselves forever.
> >
> > P.S.
> > I think, but I am not sure, this day in history holds some other less
> > important event! ;-)
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > Quintus Sertorius
> >
> > Queastor
> > Nova Roma
> > Propraetor
> > Canada Occidentalis
> >
> > Join the Main List for Nova Roma
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
> >
> > Join the egroup for Canada Occidentalis
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_CanOcc
> >
> > Join the egroup for the Quintus Sertorius of Old Rome
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sertorii
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > [Classmates.com]
> > Click here for Classmates.com
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
> --
>
> Mia
> ICQ#93586029
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[novaroma] Resignations
From:	"Matthias Stappert" <3s@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 12:28:54 -0000

Caius Flavius Diocletianus Quiritibus S.P.D.

Today is my NR birthday, on March 16th last year my citizenship was
approved.
Today, and last day, many citizens left our res publica.

What should I say? There are no appropriate words for this.
Especially some of my friends left. I know that there are some people
who see this politically, but I mean it personally. I remember the
times when I served under Marcus Marcius Rex as Legatus Germaniae,
and when I cooperated with Livia Marcia Aurelia in the Sodalitas
Militarium.

Because it�s not my custom to hold long speeches, I just want to say
following:

I will stay and affirm my citizenship hereby. My offices as both
Praetor Urbanus and Praetor Germaniae have to be fulfilled. They are
a great honour for me. I swore an oath when I assumed office. There
are voters who trust in me. And I�m still feeling that Nova Roma is a
place to live in as a Roman.

I promise you further nonpartisan work, in cooperation with our
elected magistrates, in the Senate, in the Provincia Germania, for
the benefit of our Res Publica.

I say farewell to those friends and citizen who left our nation. May
you find another place to live Romanitas. May the gods be with you
all. I�m deeply touched by your decision to go.

Now, we _have to_ learn from what happened. In future, we should do
all to prevent such a situation.

I don�t want to comment any statement about this topic here on this
list, they speak for themselves, and the spirit behind them.

Valete
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Praetor, Senator
Governor of Germania
Retarius Sodalitas Militarium
former Legatus Germaniae
former Limes Cooperation Scriba


Subject:	[novaroma] Grieved
From:	Publius Sentius Rutilianus Dexion <kelibol@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:39:38 +0200

Avete..

I want to express my grief to see some of the best peoples'
loss in NR.I believe that they
will be remembered with their worthy deeds within the res publica. As
a citizen I want to
express my gratitude for all their efforts and time they have given as
they were trying to improve
Nova Roma. And I also believe that is what we all should do!
Of course we will survive,prosper and grow...but it only
saddened my heart as a man
to see how quick and eager some people can be with their passion to
replace the ones who have
resigned.
I wish them good luck and all the aid Gods can provide for
their future...

Valete bene...

Publius Sentius Rutilianus Dexion
Civis Nova Roma
rapax@--------


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] One Year!
From:	"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 07:09:17 -0600

Thank you for the reply, I do appreciate it. My daughter is gooing her
approval also! I hope you have a very nice day.

QS

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mia" <tuozine@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 10:46 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] One Year!

> Congratulations on your anniversary! And happy belated birthday to your
> daughter as well.
>
> Ursula Numeria Fortunata
>
> Quintus Sertorius wrote:
> >
> > 15 Mar 2001
> >
> > Salve All
> >
> > This day is a very important one for me. On this date last year I was
> > accepted as a Citizen of Nova Roma!.... The world has turned over
> > many times since then, but my love for Roma has only increased. I hope
> > that I can continue to contribute to our micro-nation at least as much
> > in the future as I have in the past. When I found out I was a Citizen
> > I was holding my 3 week old daughter, the one that we where told would
> > never be born, and now she is as strong and healthy as my feeling for
> > Roma!.... So... I hope this day leaves all of us with some small
> > special memory that everyone can keep with themselves forever.
> >
> > P.S.
> > I think, but I am not sure, this day in history holds some other less
> > important event! ;-)
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > Quintus Sertorius
> >
> > Queastor
> > Nova Roma
> > Propraetor
> > Canada Occidentalis
> >
> > Join the Main List for Nova Roma
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
> >
> > Join the egroup for Canada Occidentalis
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_CanOcc
> >
> > Join the egroup for the Quintus Sertorius of Old Rome
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sertorii
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > [Classmates.com]
> > Click here for Classmates.com
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
> --
>
> Mia
> ICQ#93586029
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


Subject:	[novaroma] Gladiator Documentary
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 08:28:05 -0500

Salvete;

For those of you with access to The Learning Channel, they will be airing
"Gladiators: The Brutal Truth" tonight at 9 PM eastern time. A brief
description may be found at
http://tlc.discovery.com/schedule/episode.jsp?episode=551661000

I know I'll have my VCR ready!

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

"For Gracchus, hatred of the Patrician class is a profession, and not such a
bad one." (Crassus in the film "Spartacus")

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] One Year!
From:	"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 07:14:04 -0600

Thank you Censor, your words do mean a lot. The tell you the truth, it was
you that I first admired when I started following NR! So to hear this from
you, as I said, seems to me to close a circle that started one year and one
day ago.... As I noticed the sun has indeed rose on our Republic
today!!!!.... Even after those resignations.

QS

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 5:34 AM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] One Year!

> Ave,
>
> Let me offer you congratulations, ProPraetor Q. Sertorius, since I was
> the one who approved your citizenship last year! :) Its been a pleasure
> to work with you, and hopefully as the years go on and on...may we
> always have an excellent working relationship!
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> Censor of Nova Roma
>
> Mia wrote:
> >
> > Congratulations on your anniversary! And happy belated birthday to your
> > daughter as well.
> >
> > Ursula Numeria Fortunata
> >
> > Quintus Sertorius wrote:
> > >
> > > 15 Mar 2001
> > >
> > > Salve All
> > >
> > > This day is a very important one for me. On this date last year I was
> > > accepted as a Citizen of Nova Roma!.... The world has turned over
> > > many times since then, but my love for Roma has only increased. I hope
> > > that I can continue to contribute to our micro-nation at least as much
> > > in the future as I have in the past. When I found out I was a Citizen
> > > I was holding my 3 week old daughter, the one that we where told would
> > > never be born, and now she is as strong and healthy as my feeling for
> > > Roma!.... So... I hope this day leaves all of us with some small
> > > special memory that everyone can keep with themselves forever.
> > >
> > > P.S.
> > > I think, but I am not sure, this day in history holds some other less
> > > important event! ;-)
> > >
> > > Vale
> > >
> > > Quintus Sertorius
> > >
> > > Queastor
> > > Nova Roma
> > > Propraetor
> > > Canada Occidentalis
> > >
> > > Join the Main List for Nova Roma
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
> > >
> > > Join the egroup for Canada Occidentalis
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_CanOcc
> > >
> > > Join the egroup for the Quintus Sertorius of Old Rome
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sertorii
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > [Classmates.com]
> > > Click here for Classmates.com
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Mia
> > ICQ#93586029
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Resignations
From:	"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 07:17:42 -0600

Very well said!

QS

----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthias Stappert" <3s@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 6:28 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Resignations

Caius Flavius Diocletianus Quiritibus S.P.D.

Today is my NR birthday, on March 16th last year my citizenship was
approved.
Today, and last day, many citizens left our res publica.

What should I say? There are no appropriate words for this.
Especially some of my friends left. I know that there are some people
who see this politically, but I mean it personally. I remember the
times when I served under Marcus Marcius Rex as Legatus Germaniae,
and when I cooperated with Livia Marcia Aurelia in the Sodalitas
Militarium.

Because it�s not my custom to hold long speeches, I just want to say
following:

I will stay and affirm my citizenship hereby. My offices as both
Praetor Urbanus and Praetor Germaniae have to be fulfilled. They are
a great honour for me. I swore an oath when I assumed office. There
are voters who trust in me. And I�m still feeling that Nova Roma is a
place to live in as a Roman.

I promise you further nonpartisan work, in cooperation with our
elected magistrates, in the Senate, in the Provincia Germania, for
the benefit of our Res Publica.

I say farewell to those friends and citizen who left our nation. May
you find another place to live Romanitas. May the gods be with you
all. I�m deeply touched by your decision to go.

Now, we _have to_ learn from what happened. In future, we should do
all to prevent such a situation.

I don�t want to comment any statement about this topic here on this
list, they speak for themselves, and the spirit behind them.

Valete
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Praetor, Senator
Governor of Germania
Retarius Sodalitas Militarium
former Legatus Germaniae
former Limes Cooperation Scriba

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Grieved
From:	"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 07:25:05 -0600

I recently suffered a few unexpected deaths in my family and the way we
dealt with it was to keep our minds and bodys busy and the Know in our
hearts and minds that "life goes on".... Remember, but do not dwell.

QS

----- Original Message -----
From: "Publius Sentius Rutilianus Dexion" <kelibol@-------->
To: "novaroma" <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 6:39 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Grieved

> Avete..
>
> I want to express my grief to see some of the best peoples'
> loss in NR.I believe that they
> will be remembered with their worthy deeds within the res publica. As
> a citizen I want to
> express my gratitude for all their efforts and time they have given
as
> they were trying to improve
> Nova Roma. And I also believe that is what we all should do!
> Of course we will survive,prosper and grow...but it only
> saddened my heart as a man
> to see how quick and eager some people can be with their passion to
> replace the ones who have
> resigned.
> I wish them good luck and all the aid Gods can provide for
> their future...
>
> Valete bene...
>
>
> Publius Sentius Rutilianus Dexion
> Civis Nova Roma
> rapax@--------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Grieved
From:	Craig Stevenson <dougies@-------->
Date:	Sat, 17 Mar 2001 00:05:43 +1030

Ave all,

I too know what you mean Quintus. I went through a period where I lost many I
knew and cared about, and found that only by staying busy and keeping occupied
could I deal with my grief. Now, whenever I become bored, the grief returns, so
I try to keep busy....with the subsequent result that my family room has now
become a clutter with odd projects I started to keep me sane!:-)

Vale,

Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura

Quintus Sertorius wrote:

> I recently suffered a few unexpected deaths in my family and the way we
> dealt with it was to keep our minds and bodys busy and the Know in our
> hearts and minds that "life goes on".... Remember, but do not dwell.
>
> QS
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Publius Sentius Rutilianus Dexion" <kelibol@-------->
> To: "novaroma" <novaroma@-------->
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 6:39 AM
> Subject: [novaroma] Grieved
>
> > Avete..
> >
> > I want to express my grief to see some of the best peoples'
> > loss in NR.I believe that they
> > will be remembered with their worthy deeds within the res publica. As
> > a citizen I want to
> > express my gratitude for all their efforts and time they have given
> as
> > they were trying to improve
> > Nova Roma. And I also believe that is what we all should do!
> > Of course we will survive,prosper and grow...but it only
> > saddened my heart as a man
> > to see how quick and eager some people can be with their passion to
> > replace the ones who have
> > resigned.
> > I wish them good luck and all the aid Gods can provide for
> > their future...
> >
> > Valete bene...
> >
> >
> > Publius Sentius Rutilianus Dexion
> > Civis Nova Roma
> > rapax@--------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[novaroma] A new morning...
From:	cassius622@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 08:50:05 EST

Salvete,

It's morning here, the first day after the Ides of March. A *good* morning
too... first decent sleep I've had in a few days.

In mind's eye I look into the Basilica where I "see" the Senate meeting.
Empty seats. Well, ALL seats are empty at this early hour, but some of those
chairs will still be empty still at the next gathering of the Senate. Some of
those folks I've known since the first few months of Nova Roma's existence.

Oddly, I don't feel sadness. When I think of those who left what comes to me
is months of angry words here in this chamber, the frustration with trying to
build consensus among people who were determined to be disgusted and angry no
matter what was done. No doubt time will soften these memories, and the good
times will seem clearer than what came later. Nature is often kind to us in
that way.

Will a few more people leave? Perhaps. But this morning it doesn't seem a
worrying prospect somehow. Instead I find there are already new ideas and
possibilities coming to mind.

Yes, it is right and proper to miss a handful of people who leave, but what
about the larger number of people who will *join* Nova Roma in this very next
month? Rebuilding the numbers lost will take only a couple of weeks; making
sure that the quality of our Micronation also increases is the challenge.

What can we do to make these new Citizens feel at home? To build new
friendships on a more stable basis? To help them become active participants,
ones who enjoy being here? �My guess is that there is a great deal that can
be done, and it's the "Roman way" to learn from adversity and make things
better as a result of it.

To be honest a lot of pressure seems to have lifted. The few people who spent
these last months planning to leave were �too preoccupied to do anything on
behalf of Nova Roma. Life had been getting difficult in many ways that didn't
come out on the main list. Now we again have a chance for progress and growth
and I find I'm grateful for the opportunity.

I guess I'm all introspective this morning! Again in my mind's eye I look
beyond the Basilica out to the horizon. Will we shortly see a new Roman
encampment try to raise itself in the distance? It's difficult not to smile
at the apparent hopes of building a Roman utopia "without politics." Such a
thing was never built in the ancient world, and it's unlikely that people
have stopped being people in the meantime.

Already there are many new ideas and possibilities coming to light. I'll
start work on a Virtues Sodalitas this evening ... perhaps the foundation of
the thing will be done over the weekend. Also ideas for helping new Citizens
along. What can I say? New challenges are not necessarily a bad thing!

In the meantime, I look forward to talking with the Citizens of Nova Roma
today, and seeing how our Republic has weathered a stormy night.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Consul

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] A new morning...
From:	Marcus Papirius Justus <papirius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:12:46 -0500

At 08:50 AM 16/03/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>Already there are many new ideas and possibilities coming to light. I'll
>start work on a Virtues Sodalitas this evening ... perhaps the foundation of
>the thing will be done over the weekend. Also ideas for helping new Citizens
>along. What can I say? New challenges are not necessarily a bad thing!

Considering the patron deities of the gens Papiria are Pietas, Honos,
Virtus, I hope you will keep us informed of the formation of this
sodalitas. I know when various sodalitates formed on the 'FortheMuses'
list, I seem to have been left out of the loop, despite asking onlist for
more info ... I think that might help answer one of your questions (and I'm
not a 'new citizen')


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] A new morning...
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:36:15 -0500

Salvete;

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cassius622@-------- [mailto:cassius622@--------]
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 08:50
>
> Also ideas for helping new Citizens along. What can I say? New challenges
> are not necessarily a bad thing!

Just wanted to insert a shameless plug for my website here, which is
specifically designed to help new Citizens get a handle on some of Nova
Roma's institutions and what they can do to get involved;
http://www.goldenfuture.net/mediatlantica/whatnow/index.html (I've updated
it a little since I last mentioned it. As always, comments are welcome!).
:-)

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

"For Gracchus, hatred of the Patrician class is a profession, and not such a
bad one." (Crassus in the film "Spartacus")

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Past Resignations
From:	Lucilla Cornelia Cinna <CorneliaLucilla@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:57:11 +0100

Salve M. Minuci Audens

Thank you so much for these your words.

> I ask that you share with me the ideas that you believe would have made
> it bearable for you to stay with Nova Roma, to work and to play with her
> and to enjoy the friends and colleagues that you have made here. If you
> will agree to share such with me, I pledge that I will work within Nova
> Roma to try to bring about conditions that would have met your needs
> while you were here for the benefit of those who remain. If I am a part
> of the cause which decided you to leave, I would also ask that you tell
> me about that, as well, so that perhaps I may look to an improvement of
> my probable shortcomings in some small way.

I sollemly promise, I will support you in this, M. Audens, to the best
of my abilities.

It is not only a loss, it is a shame that within few days six people
well-known to all of us, colleagues, friends, kinsmen, compatriots,
suddenly turn their backs not only on those they assume as their
enemies, but also on the community of the cititas NovaRomana as a whole
- a shame for all of us.

I hope you will succeed with this your effort, M. Audens.

If ever I was thinking about an agnomen that should characterize you,
Sapiens would be most appropriate, as it would as well hint to the
proverb of: Sapere aude - Dare to be wise!

Di deaque te bene protegant!

Lucilla Cornelia Cinna
Quaestrix C. Flavio Diocletiano Praetori

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: ATTN (Religio Romana): ante diem XVII Kalendas Aprilias (March 16)
From:	ksterne@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:37:06 -0000

Salve Antonius Gryllus Graecus,

>>>This is also the a day of the Bacchanalia dedicated to
Bacchus/Dionysus<<

Yes, a good excuse to drink wine!;-)

Seriously, your posts on the religious aspects of the various days
are very informative and much appreciated.

Vale,
Gaius Popillius Laenas
Citizen


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] A new morning...
From:	"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:32:16 -0600

You are not alone in the forum this morning Consul! I too am enjoying the
crisp air, and the light breeze on my face. I did notice you as you strolled
by me in my hiden observating spot, and yes I did notice a rather peacful
look upon your face(that look hearten me). I hope you do not mind my
silently sharing your personal moment! Now, the skies are clear and there is
the promise of fine day ahead.

QS

----- Original Message -----
From: <cassius622@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 7:50 AM
Subject: [novaroma] A new morning...

Salvete,

It's morning here, the first day after the Ides of March. A *good* morning
too... first decent sleep I've had in a few days.

In mind's eye I look into the Basilica where I "see" the Senate meeting.
Empty seats. Well, ALL seats are empty at this early hour, but some of those
chairs will still be empty still at the next gathering of the Senate. Some
of
those folks I've known since the first few months of Nova Roma's existence.

Oddly, I don't feel sadness. When I think of those who left what comes to me
is months of angry words here in this chamber, the frustration with trying
to
build consensus among people who were determined to be disgusted and angry
no
matter what was done. No doubt time will soften these memories, and the good
times will seem clearer than what came later. Nature is often kind to us in
that way.

Will a few more people leave? Perhaps. But this morning it doesn't seem a
worrying prospect somehow. Instead I find there are already new ideas and
possibilities coming to mind.

Yes, it is right and proper to miss a handful of people who leave, but what
about the larger number of people who will *join* Nova Roma in this very
next
month? Rebuilding the numbers lost will take only a couple of weeks; making
sure that the quality of our Micronation also increases is the challenge.

What can we do to make these new Citizens feel at home? To build new
friendships on a more stable basis? To help them become active participants,
ones who enjoy being here? My guess is that there is a great deal that can
be done, and it's the "Roman way" to learn from adversity and make things
better as a result of it.

To be honest a lot of pressure seems to have lifted. The few people who
spent
these last months planning to leave were too preoccupied to do anything on
behalf of Nova Roma. Life had been getting difficult in many ways that
didn't
come out on the main list. Now we again have a chance for progress and
growth
and I find I'm grateful for the opportunity.

I guess I'm all introspective this morning! Again in my mind's eye I look
beyond the Basilica out to the horizon. Will we shortly see a new Roman
encampment try to raise itself in the distance? It's difficult not to smile
at the apparent hopes of building a Roman utopia "without politics." Such a
thing was never built in the ancient world, and it's unlikely that people
have stopped being people in the meantime.

Already there are many new ideas and possibilities coming to light. I'll
start work on a Virtues Sodalitas this evening ... perhaps the foundation of
the thing will be done over the weekend. Also ideas for helping new Citizens
along. What can I say? New challenges are not necessarily a bad thing!

In the meantime, I look forward to talking with the Citizens of Nova Roma
today, and seeing how our Republic has weathered a stormy night.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Consul

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[novaroma] Provincial Edicta
From:	"Procopious" <procopious@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 08:30:25 -0800

Lucius Mauricius Procopious Omnibus SPD

Provincial Edictum 2754-1

The following edicta are enacted under the authority of the Propraetor of America Boreoccidentalis.

A.Provincial Edicta
i. A provincial website shall be created to contain provincial edicta and disseminate information to current and prospective cives.
ii. All edicta shall be numbered with the year and a sequential designation. (See above)

B. Designation of Regios: Henceforth the following macronational states geographic areas will be used to delineate the regions of the Province of America Boreoccidentalis.
i. America Boreoccidentalis Major (Washington State)
ii. America Boreoccidentalis Minore (Oregon State)
iii. America Boreoccidentalis Orientalis (Idaho State)

C. Appointment of Staff (descriptions of staff positions and duties will follow in a separate edict)
i. Scribe to Propraetor Mauricius: Livia Mauricia Sabina
ii. Sacerdos Primus: Marcus Cornelius Felix
iii. Legate AmBor Major: Oppius Flaccus Severus
iv. Legate AmBor Minore: Marcus Cornelius Felix
v. Legate AmBor Orientalis: unfilled, defaults to Propraetor

Presented this 16th day of Martius, 2754 AUC

Lucius Mauricius Procopious
Propraetor America Boreoccidentalis
procopious@--------
ICQ# 83516618
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Gens Mauricia
http://www.geocities.com/procopious

Join the America Boreoccidentalis Mailing List
http://www.egroups.com/group/AmBor_Waves
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Indeed, it is not by the plans of men, but by the hand of God that the affairs of men are directed; and this men call Fate, not knowing the reason for what things they see occur; and what seems to be without cause is easy to call the accident of chance. Still, this is a matter every mortal will decide for himself according to his taste."
-Procopius of Caesarea (in Palestine) [born c.490/507- died c.560s]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[novaroma] Ante Meridianum
From:	nramos@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 16:30:36 -0000

Salve Quirites!

A lot of very valuable people have left, that is true. Yet the sun
still came up this morning, we began to stir as usual, and in the
cold
light of day - Nova Roma is still here.

The leave-taking was bitter; but that always happens when someone is
bound and determined to be offended no matter what. Many entreaties
for forgiveness and concordia were offered to those who left, many
concessions were made, but in the end, they were determined to make
the Ides of March of 2754 AUC a bitter day in our history.

I wish them all well, because they were fellow Quirites. Perhaps we
had less in common than we thought - that is indeed a pity, for there
wer many I respected and looked up to in that group. I am sorry that
some decided to make their departure a personal attack against
others.
I am even sorrier that some of us could not restrain ourselves in our
grief and lashed back at them. That, all things considered, was
foolish, if entirely human from us.

These friends contributed things of value to our Res Publica - at
worst, they held up a mirror to our actions and helped us think more
clearly about what we are doing. At best, they helped some of us grow
and learn more about that which brought us here - Romanitas.

I am a civus of this Urbs. I believe that what we have undertaken is
noble, and that we can build a great Nation out of it. I feel sadness
for those, who blinded by petty personal animosities, have from both
sides of this question torn at the basis of our Res Publica. But I am
much heartened by those who have reaffirmed their commitment to our
ideals, and are willing to help us lift our standards once more from
the dust, and to bear them forward to greater achievements.

Ego, Marius Cornelius Scipio, am a Nova Roman by choice. I am Curule
Aedile by the will of the Senatus et Populusque Romanum. I will
endeavor to fulfill my oath of office with the same fervor and zeal
with which I took it. I will pray for the well-being of those who
have
gone, as well as for those who remain in this our Res Publica. I hope
that friendship and Romanitas will be stronger than these petty
division that have sundered us, and that we will once more meet with
those who left in amicitia et concordia. For today, I will do my best
to serve Nova Roma honorably and well. May the Gods watch over us,
and
help us heal.

Optime vale, et Iuppiter nos protegas!

Marius Cornelius Scipio
Nova Romani


Subject:	[novaroma] Dura lex sed lex
From:	laurentibusnova@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 16:44:53 -0000

Dixit Q. Fabius Maximus

> Well Gnaeus Moravius Piscinus,
> We will miss the others. We will not miss you. And how like the
rat you
> are, leaving Nova Roma in the dead of night after all the Honorable
Romans
> left in daylight.
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus

Respondeo : Well, all has been said and answered in these few words.
May be the departure of so many of our magistrates was orchestrated,
may be differences of opinions were difficult to handle and endlessly
causing trouble and grudge over the forum and we could talk like that
for hours, even days. The bottom line is that so many times words
such as these were left unpunished despite all assurances of good
comradship and constitutional protection. Answer me honestly fellow
citizens, doesn't these insults make you wonder where the blame lie?

I hope now that the repected Curatrix Sermonem will once again
demonstrate her integrity in publicly condemning such outrageous
declarations and taking the necessary steps as she once did against
Formosanus during the brawl over the language issue : In all fairness
and for insulting a member of our family and therefore all of us in
our gens I respecfully resquest under the article II.A.4 of the
constitution that a two week ban on the list be pronounced against Q.
Fabius Maximus and that a letter of apology be sent to the offended
party. May justice be blind and fair.

Dura lex sed lex.

Bene Valete

Cornelius Moravius Laurentibus


Subject:	[novaroma] (no subject)
From:	laurentibusnova@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 12:05:51 EST

Salvete,

It is with a broken heart and from a broken home that I write today. My whole
family has gone, leaving me with responsabilities and duties I am not sure to
be fully prepared for. My illustrious father left me in charge of the gens
Moravia and I shall try not to disappoint him in keeping the spirit of our
family alive in ouR republic.
In the light of such sad events, I am once again, as I did when I first
appeared in the forum, asking for all people of good will to unite and work
together to make this community a better place of worship and cultural
enlightment. I call all our friends to join in expressing our grief for the
loss of loved ones. I call all our oponents to set aside, as I will, our
technical misunderstandings so we can at last, in the memory of these great
men, achieve what we are all here for : make the roman spirit and virtues
shine again.

Before I retire for a few days I would like to thank all of our citizens who
have expressed sympathy to my lost parents and siblings. It means a lot to me
and to them. A personnal thanks also to Marcus Audens and Fortunatus : You
will remain forever friends to the Moravii.

Bene Valete et Multas Gratias

Cornelius Moravius Laurentibus
Paterfamilias
Rogator
"VOTING IS A RIGHT. IT IS ALSO A DUTY"

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[novaroma] The Army's still here
From:	"Sean Sheridan Richards" <legioix@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 17:10:44 -0000

The Legions are at the gates.... well, camped nearby...
.... here, of course, to protect the interests of the Masses.

Gaius Valerius Tacitus Hibernicus
Centurio, Legio IX Hispana
Provincia California


Subject:	[novaroma] New Addition to the Family
From:	"Oppius Flaccus Severus" <oppiusflaccus@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:22:31 -0800

Salvete Quiritibus;

It is my distinct honor to introduce Scipio Flaccus Americus
as the newest member of Gens Flacca and he hails to us from
America Austroccidentalis. I believe he will be introducing himself to the
list shortly, so will suffice it to say for now that he has an excellent
background, a strong sense of familias and Romanitas and should prove to be
a wonderful addition to our Gens and to Nova Roma
as a whole.

Please join me in welcoming him into the fold with
open arms.

Welcome filius!

Bene valete,
-Oppius Flaccus Severus


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] New Addition to the Family
From:	"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:17:52 -0600

I join you, Oppius, in this welcome addition to our Micronation! Allthe best
to you and yours.

QS

----- Original Message -----
From: "Oppius Flaccus Severus" <oppiusflaccus@-------->
To: "Novaroma@Yahoogroups. Com" <novaroma@-------->
Cc: "Scipio Flaccus America" <Scipio_america@-------->
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 11:22 AM
Subject: [novaroma] New Addition to the Family

> Salvete Quiritibus;
>
> It is my distinct honor to introduce Scipio Flaccus Americus
> as the newest member of Gens Flacca and he hails to us from
> America Austroccidentalis. I believe he will be introducing himself to the
> list shortly, so will suffice it to say for now that he has an excellent
> background, a strong sense of familias and Romanitas and should prove to
be
> a wonderful addition to our Gens and to Nova Roma
> as a whole.
>
> Please join me in welcoming him into the fold with
> open arms.
>
> Welcome filius!
>
> Bene valete,
> -Oppius Flaccus Severus
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Resignation
From:	Claudia Octaviana <claudia_octaviana@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:14:04 -0800 (PST)

Can anyone tell me why they would feel compelled to
leave NR? Has anyone, if any, ever really worked
together in the flesh towards the success of this
group? And with this group being as young as it is
how do you forsee success if people bail out because
of a purely electronic relationship that has seen a
few dissagreememnts? Are many of you that thin
skinned?
I don't think the original Romans were that sensitive.
You dishonor their memory and the idea of resignation
based upon dissagreeements or dissappointments is
absurd and dishonorable. Especially when few to
almost none of you have ever had to work together,
side by side, towards the success of a group.

How would you ever make a real Roman state a success?

My legion is only 3 months old and barely off the
ground. Do you expect my legion to be successful if I
bail now because I'm dissappoionted that I don't have
more male legionaires or armor or weapons or status
within Roman SCA and reenactment groups???

I'm proud of what I've done so far.

You should be also.

If you want to see success within NR or any group the
idea is to stick with the group, show loyalty and work
out your differences towards a common goal which
should be the good of the people and the group.

Claudia Octaviana Califia
Praefectus Legionis
LEG XI Claudia Pia Fidelis
Provinicus Terra Occasus Infra
ROME

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	[novaroma] Sorry About Last Post
From:	V_Praetoria@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 17:26:19 -0000

Avete Omnes,
First off let me say that I am sorry for my last post. I thought
that Nova Roma was dissolving. So, as any strong leader, I stepped
forward to help. Boy is my face red. Well anyways. I am still
willing to take an active role in Nova Roma, and soon I will try to
make a joint union of Nova Roma and the Roman Historical Society. As
membership begins to grow, there are several directions which I shall
take the RHS, and I will keep you all informed. Once again, sorry
about the confusion.

Pontius Sejanus Marius


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Resignation
From:	"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:30:03 -0600

I understand much of what you say, as I have had to stay the course and find
out what I am truly capable of. When the going gets tough, it's time to rise
above the adversity!

QS

----- Original Message -----
From: "Claudia Octaviana" <claudia_octaviana@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Resignation

> Can anyone tell me why they would feel compelled to
> leave NR? Has anyone, if any, ever really worked
> together in the flesh towards the success of this
> group? And with this group being as young as it is
> how do you forsee success if people bail out because
> of a purely electronic relationship that has seen a
> few dissagreememnts? Are many of you that thin
> skinned?
> I don't think the original Romans were that sensitive.
> You dishonor their memory and the idea of resignation
> based upon dissagreeements or dissappointments is
> absurd and dishonorable. Especially when few to
> almost none of you have ever had to work together,
> side by side, towards the success of a group.
>
> How would you ever make a real Roman state a success?
>
> My legion is only 3 months old and barely off the
> ground. Do you expect my legion to be successful if I
> bail now because I'm dissappoionted that I don't have
> more male legionaires or armor or weapons or status
> within Roman SCA and reenactment groups???
>
> I'm proud of what I've done so far.
>
> You should be also.
>
> If you want to see success within NR or any group the
> idea is to stick with the group, show loyalty and work
> out your differences towards a common goal which
> should be the good of the people and the group.
>
> Claudia Octaviana Califia
> Praefectus Legionis
> LEG XI Claudia Pia Fidelis
> Provinicus Terra Occasus Infra
> ROME
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Mass Resignations??
From:	Claudia Octaviana <claudia_octaviana@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:32:14 -0800 (PST)

--- Mia <tuozine@--------> wrote:
>
> I am also shocked by this wave of resignations. This
> has me baffled and
> disheartened, since I have recently been interested
> in spending some
> time developing my Gens and finding my place in Nova
> Roma. Now I am
> really confused and definitely feeling like I must
> have missed
> something.
>
> Ursula Numeria Fortunata
> --
>

It's easy to bail on people you've never met or worked
with in the flesh. You can easily turn your back on
people you never had a chance to develope any
relationships or loyalties with through working
together. It's easy to walk away from dissagreements
you had with anonymous email "pen-pals" states and
oceans away.

What's there to lose?

Perhaps honor. Which doesn't mean a whole lot to some
people.

Sorry.

Claudia
LEG XI

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Subject:	[novaroma] Changes
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 12:56:30 EST

Salvete omnes

We are going through a bad time, and not just in Nova Roma. If anyone has
not noticed, there are problems in the stock markets, nasty things going
on in the politics of several macronations, epidemics and threats to our
food supply internationally, and locally, at least, even the weather is
threatening and disastrous. We have little or no control over any of
these things.

These last two days I have been reminded of some lines from a saga of the
Norse traditions. I am going from memory here - perhaps our friend
Venator is more familiar with it and can correct my errors:

Brother to brother bringeth his bane,
Cousin with cousin breaketh kinship.
Never a man spareth another,
Hard grows the world - whoredom prevaileth,
Axe-time and sword-time, shattering shields,
Wind-time and wolf-time, ere the world waneth.

That certainly seems to describe some of what we have been seeing here.
It matters not one little bit who has left and who has stayed - if we
continue business as usual here, we will lose more good citizens and
worse may happen. Surely here in Nova Roma, we do (hopefully) have
control over our own behavior.

Roma Antiqua had many ignoble features which we seem to be recreating
more effectively than we are her virtues. Perhaps we need a little less
hubris, arrogance, pride, and "dignity" used as an excuse to insult and
dismiss other people.

I stay, for now. I am still debating whether I will be forced to leave
not because I've been insulted here - I've been insulted and assaulted by
some of the most powerful and articulate people here, and my armor is
barely scratched. If I have to leave it will be because to stay here may
expose me to legal liability as an officer of a real-world organization
incorporated in the United States.

Has anyone not noticed Ericius' reasons for leaving? He left because he
came to suspect that someone here was illegally intercepting his email,
and because he received word that someone else here was making credible
threats of physical violence against him (also a Federal crime in this
country). Such acts, if they are occuring, expose us all to serious civil
and criminal liability issues. Is anyone investigating Ericius' concerns?

For all our sakes and the sake of Nova Roma, I hope so.

Lucius Sergius Australicus Obstinatus
Senator

id quod circumiret, circumveniat.

(What goes around, comes around.)


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Resignation
From:	darkelf@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 17:58:33 -0000

> Can anyone tell me why they would feel compelled to
> leave NR?

Political differences. Competing ideologies. Perceived* inequity, favoritism, prejudice. Feeling that it's just not worth the
effort.

> Has anyone, if any, ever really worked
> together in the flesh towards the success of this
> group?

Actually, some of us have. Our governor faciliatated such events and such workings. The Senate removed her for reasons that
are not clear to me or my gens or my province, but we are not entitled to the full story (although some members of the Senate
have tried to explain things, for which I am grateful). I am willing to entertain the notion there were reasons for our
governor's removal, but until I see some, I can only wonder why our face-to-face efforts to make NR something besides an
electronic gathering were so abruptly truncated. So spare me your self-righteousness this morning, hmm?

The Romans (real ones) had the occasional habit of political infighting themselves, up to proscriptions and civil war. Not the
staid bunch you present, no. Can think of several offhand who were killed for offending the Powers That Be on some level (the
brothers Gracchi, Livius Drusus, many enemies of Sulla). The difference is, of course, that we are a voluntary gathering, there
are no legions to bring us back when we leave, and we are free to dissociate ourselves at any time from a micro- national
government which does not meet our needs or expectations.

Vale,

Prima Clodia Cinnabari, disillusioned but still here

* please note the usage of this word. This does not, repeat, not, imply that any of these things are true with a capital T. Just
that they are *perceived* to exist.


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] I Shall step forward
From:	Claudia Octaviana <claudia_octaviana@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:56:21 -0800 (PST)

This is an honorable man.

Claudia Octaviana Califia
Praefectus Legionis - LEG XI

--- V_Praetoria@-------- wrote:
> My fellow citizens,
> I may be a new member, but by no means am I a
> novice. With the
> recent resignations, it seems that it is a time for
> strong canidates
> to step forward to save our Republic. So I do
> hereby step forward
> and announce that I will do what ever it takes to
> aid in saving the
> Republic. You may call on me, and my Society, in
> any way need. I
> shall do my part.
>
> Pontius Sejanus Marius
> Prefect, Legio VI
> Founder, Roman Historical Society
>

__________________________________________________
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Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Mass Resignations??
From:	nous_athanatos@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 18:22:10 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, Claudia Octaviana <claudia_octaviana@-------->
wrote:
>
> It's easy to bail on people you've never met or worked
> with in the flesh. You can easily turn your back on
> people you never had a chance to develope any
> relationships or loyalties with through working
> together. It's easy to walk away from dissagreements
> you had with anonymous email "pen-pals" states and
> oceans away.
>
> What's there to lose?
>
> Perhaps honor. Which doesn't mean a whole lot to some
> people.

The flip side of this being that it is also possible to leave in
order to preserve one's honor and integrity and it takes no courage
whatsoever to attack someone's honor after they have already left.

What is there to gain?

Perhaps the favor of those whose influence has grown now that the
opposition has decided to leave?

T. Clodius Mercurialis


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Changes
From:	ksterne@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 18:28:09 -0000

Salve Lucius Sergius,

>>>If I have to leave it will be because to stay here may
expose me to legal liability as an officer of a real-world
organization incorporated in the United States.<<<

Could you explain how? E-Mail me privately if you wish.

Gratia.

Vale,
Gaius Popillius Laenas
Citizen


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Changes
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 13:46:35 EST

Salve Gaius Popillius

It is a public matter. Nova Roma has a "dual reality" - it is a
micronation but it is also a corporation and thus a legal entity under
U.S. law. The Senate and magistrates are also the Board of Directors and
officers of the corporation.

Thus if anyone acting within the framework of the corporation is engaging
in illegal or libelous activities, the corporation as a whole and its
officers individually might be liable for prosecution or civil suit. I am
a psychologist and *not* an attorney, so I might not be stating the
legalities accurately, but I'm thinking I need to consult my attorney and
decide if I am exposing myself to potential legal problems by continuing
to be a part of the governance of Nova Roma Corporation.

What I can say as a psychologist is that behavior has consequences,
including behavior on the Internet, and I don't wish to suffer the
consequences of someone else's misbehavior.

Vale,

L. Sergius Australicus Obst.

On 3/16/01 12:28 PM ksterne@-------- (ksterne@--------) wrote:

>Salve Lucius Sergius,
>
>>If I have to leave it will be because to stay here may
>>expose me to legal liability as an officer of a real-world
>>organization incorporated in the United States.<<<
>
>
>Could you explain how? E-Mail me privately if you wish.
>
>Gratia.
>
>Vale,
>Gaius Popillius Laenas
>Citizen
>

certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.

(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)


Subject:	[novaroma] ignorant questions was resignations
From:	asseri@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 13:47:15 EST

In a message dated 3/16/01 12:59:57 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
darkelf@-------- writes:

> Actually, some of us have. Our governor faciliatated such events and such
> workings. The Senate removed her for reasons that
> are not clear to me or my gens or my province>>
>
please bear with me. I don't understand some of our laws and systems.
To me this is like having the governors of Michigan, Illinois and Ohio plus
the rest of them voting to get rid of the Governor of Indiana (my home state)
. Those other governors don't live here, they don't know all the work my
Governor does. How can they pass any kind of judgment?
I would think that a vote of the members of a province would be better
judges of how they are ruled/governed ,if there is a guestion of confidence.
Why don't we do it that way?

foggy and confused
P. A. Drusila

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Dura lex sed lex
From:	"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:19:14 -0500

Salve,

>>I hope now that the repected Curatrix Sermonem will once again demonstrate
her integrity in publicly condemning such outrageous declarations>>

Indeed, I will maintain my integrity by maintaining the confidentiality of
*all* disciplinary measures taken by myself or my scribes.

>>and taking the necessary steps as she once did against Formosanus during
the brawl over the language issue >>

I will not discuss the specific disciplinary cases of any citizen. I will
simply note that the *only* reason any information ever became public
regarding Formosanus was by his own mouth. Neither I, nor my scribes, ever
initiated public statements in that case.

>>In all fairness and for insulting a member of our family and therefore all
of us in our gens I respecfully resquest under the article II.A.4 of the
constitution that a two week ban on the list be pronounced against Q. Fabius
Maximus and that a letter of apology be sent to the offended party.>>

I will note, for the record, that all such requests ought to be brought
before myself and/or my scribes privately. That having been said, your
request has been duly noted. I will not comment further as, to repeat
myself, all disciplinary decisions are confidential.

>>May justice be blind and fair.>>

She always is.

If you wish to continue this discussion, you can reach me privately at
justicecmo@--------

Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena
Curatrix Sermonis

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[novaroma] Withdawal from American Roman Community
From:	V_Praetoria@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 18:00:21 -0000

My dear friends,
This is a letter I just sent to the RomanArmy groups. I have left
them completely, but stay faithfully devoted to Nova Roma.

Why have we devolved so far as to become the "officianados" of what
is and what is not Roman. When speaking of Gladiator, you all have
nothing to say but criticism. Yes there were inaccuracies and flaws,
but did it not tell a good story? And the one thing that you all
have obviosly failed to see is that it has brought a whole new
generation of people into the roman society. You are so quick to to
sit back and point out the flaws, that you miss the merits. Ridley
Scott told a good story and made people think, "wow, Rome was pretty
cool". Personally, I loved the movie, and I own it on DVD.
I am tired of listening every contidict what we don't know.
Much of Roman History is lost somewhere in time. I think that is a
wonderful thing, because it allows us to speculate and wonder what it
truly was like. So it is with all that said and done, that I
formerly secede from the American Roman Community, and branch off
towards what lies beyond. I will hold true what what is know and
factual, but I will not be bound by what is not know. Dogmatic
attidues and ideologies is not the basis for a Roman Historical
Society.
I have recieved numerous help from the fine cives of Nova Roma,
and they share and understand my ideas, and are working to help make
them a reality. I by no means hope to offend anybody, but this must
end.

Pontius Sejanus Marius


Subject:	[novaroma] My daughter and Resignations
From:	Christer Edling <tjalens.h@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 20:30:03 +0100

Salve, My Friends and All Citizens!

I am very sad today the day after the day when a group decided to leave
Nova Roma. Today is also a heavy day for me privately as my 18 years old
daughter have decide to move to a city 800 km to the south to work with
horses. The house will be empty, as I am a single and times will be full of
longing! This part of my life is of course overshadowing all other things.
I think most of You understand that!

Nova Roma has become, in spite of private worries, one of the focal points
in my life. As my interest mostly lies in the history, political science
and social science of Roma Antiqua, the public life of Nova Roma has
interested my very much. I have taken great part in discussions about the
government and organizition of Nova Roma mostly to learn, but also for "the
hell of it". But I never wanted to hurt anyone!

I think I sometimes have been rather stubborn in these debattes as I have
been raise to act that way. I have done my best to find the most correct
and "heavy arguments" for my "cause". Now when I see people that I haven't
always agreed with leave the Res Publica with some outspoken and some
unknow critizism, it makes me wonder. Was I ever to harsh in debattes or
arguments? I first want to apologize to all, both those who have left and
those who stay, if I have offened any of You! It never was and will never
be my intension to hurt someone! I just thought that we could fire away in
a friendly discussion as we are Romans of virtue and some tolerance?

I have been quite disturbed, dissatisfied, sometimes angry and sometimes
saddened to listen the tone in some of the discussions in the past. People
on both "sides" have erred and used harsh language. Sometimes therte are
persons who never answer to either private or public mails. This is not
good, as if You don't speak with each other conflicts arise. I don't know
all about what has happened in this last period of hard political conflict,
but I think that it is time to sit down and rethink each our personal
behavior.

At this time when most "accusers" and "enimies" have restricted themself to
a just behavior is saddens me that not all have succeded to keep their
reaction at a honorable level. As I am staying in the Res Publica is
saddens me most that my own Pater Familias was the one who used the hardest
words. I don't know if there is any acceptable reason behind those words.
But I think that as long as both parties has kept the enemity private,
harsh words should also be kept private, if to be uttered at all! I feel
that my dignitas has been harmed as I don't want to be connected with such
language and behavior.

I reaffirm my citizenship and swear my loyalty to Nova Roma, as many others
have done! But in the future I will think about my own behavior and I also
promise to try to help others to keep within the borders of proper
behavior, as I hope others will help me. I will avoid doing what I did
today, if I don't see it as a serious break of proper behavior, I will not
critize any citizens publicly. I will contact citizens that I have
critizism against privately to discuss the problem and to get a sensible
picture of the situation. I don't think that political discussions should
mainly be attended to in private, but discussions about personal behavior
should first of all be tended to privately, as I see it!

To those who left I want to say:
1. I regret that You decided to leave, I ask for You forgivness if I have
offened any of You!
2. I think it is wrong of You to leave the Res Publica! It is full of
humans, so it is imperfect as I am and you are, but no human society or
organization will ever function without conflicts and hard discussions. If
you have been treated wrongly it would have been better to turn it out in
the light! Youwill never solve anything by turning your back to it an leave.
3. I have dissagreed with You in many things, this doesn't mean that I
haven't learned a lot from you and listened to You. Now You leave me and
many others to fight a fight that is partly yours, (because I don't know
all facts) it doesn't seem fair!
4. I think that You all are honestly fascinated with Roma Antiqua and I am
not sure that You will be able to find or create any better alternative
organization to which you can give your loyalty and efforts. If any or all
of You one day find that You would like to come back to Nova Roma I would
gladly welcome You back as sisters and brothers! We all learn through life
and conflicts are necessary to learn!
5. I would be very honored if all or any of you would keep in touch with me
personaly in the future! I also wish You from the bottom of my heart all
the best!
6. If any of You have been angered by me please contact me privately so we
can sort all conflicts out!

To those stay as I do I want to say:
1. Let us keep dicussions on a proper and polite level!
2. Let us take conflicts into the light if we think that is the best or if
we appoach a "dangerous" level of frustration.
3. Let us who are elected magistrates remember that we are the servants of
the people and should treat all members of the populi with honesty and
politeness!
4. Let us all always count with the possiblity that our opponents are
honest and competent! ;-)
5. Let us work to be friends and to find ways to work together for Nova Roma!
6. I want to start here to ask any of You who have been angered by me to
forgive me and to contact me privately so we can sort all conflicts out.
7. Let us at last behave towards each other as if each day was the last!

I will send this mail to each of the resignees for their information! I
haven't discussed this crisis with my dear friend Illustrus Senator and
Quaestor Marcus Minucius Audens, but his mails to the main list about the
recent conflict and resignations are, wise and balanced as they are, reason
enough to stay here to help in building an even better Res Publica!

I will continue to work as hard as I can for the betterment and growth of
our beloved, but imperfect, Res Publica of Nova Roma and its Populus!

Long live Nova Roma!

Vale

Christer Edling
alias
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus
cives Provincia Thule
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
SHAMALI SALUKIS
************************************************
CAMELOT ROLEPLAYING WORKSHOP
Robert Andersson & Christer Edling
************************************************
IF GAMES - If reality was different!
Markus Sundbom & Christer Edling
************************************************
MAIN E-MAIL ADDRESS: tjalens.h@--------
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Changes
From:	ksterne@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 19:33:25 -0000

Salve Lucius Sergius,

Ego agnosco, gratia.

(I understand, thanks.)

Vale,
Gaius Popillius Laenas
Citizen


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Valedictory
From:	VMoeller@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:39:46 EST

Vado - Vado - Vado

No, not you.......I will miss you too much....sadly ---Secunda Cornelia
Valeria


Subject:	[novaroma] Great Loss
From:	"Robert W" <robert@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:42:57 -0500

Salvete Omnes: I lose the use of my computer for a while, (might still have to take it back to get it running right) and I find that our beloved Nova Roma is suffering the loss of some of our most valuable citizens. What a shock for me to discover this when I fired my computer back up. I wish them all well and hope that the Gods and Goddesses of Rome continue to guide them in their lives. I am sure Nova Roma will survive this unhappy state of affairs and continue its growth as it has on previous rocky occasions. As in any family or organization there are sometimes disagreements and arguments, but the strong familys and organizations always survive and come out even stronger. My prayers are that will also be the case with Nova Roma.
Ave atque vale, ... Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato, civis Novae Romae et Rogatorus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] ignorant questions was resignations
From:	"Lucius Mauricius Procopious" <procopious@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 12:34:22 -0800

Salvete Omnes!
If I may I will try to answer this question. I am a new civic official and a
somewhat new Nova Roman so any of my elders please feel free to correct me
if I miss the mark. Propraetors are appointed by the Senate, not elected by
the cives of a Province. We serve at the whim of the Senate. This is how
Roma Mater did it, so, as Reconstructionists this is how we are doing it. It
took me a while to get that with certain issues surrounding the Religio so I
understand and sympathize if these matters sometimes get confusing. Please
feel free to email me privately if I can be of further service.
Lucius Mauricius Procopious
Propraetor America Boreoccidentalis
procopious@--------
ICQ# 83516618
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Gens Mauricia
http://www.geocities.com/procopious

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Indeed, it is not by the plans of men, but by the hand of God that the
affairs of men are directed; and this men call Fate, not knowing the reason
for what things they see occur; and what seems to be without cause is easy
to call the accident of chance. Still, this is a matter every mortal will
decide for himself according to his taste."
-Procopius of Caesarea (in Palestine) [born c.490/507- died c.560s]
----- Original Message -----
From: <asseri@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 10:47 AM
Subject: [novaroma] ignorant questions was resignations

> In a message dated 3/16/01 12:59:57 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> darkelf@-------- writes:
>
>
> > Actually, some of us have. Our governor faciliatated such events and
such
> > workings. The Senate removed her for reasons that
> > are not clear to me or my gens or my province>>
> >
> please bear with me. I don't understand some of our laws and
systems.
> To me this is like having the governors of Michigan, Illinois and Ohio
plus
> the rest of them voting to get rid of the Governor of Indiana (my home
state)
> . Those other governors don't live here, they don't know all the work my
> Governor does. How can they pass any kind of judgment?
> I would think that a vote of the members of a province would be
better
> judges of how they are ruled/governed ,if there is a guestion of
confidence.
> Why don't we do it that way?
>
> foggy and confused
> P. A. Drusila
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: One Year
From:	"Robert W" <robert@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:56:09 -0500

Salve Quinti Sertorii: Allow me to join the others in offering congatulation of the occasion of the anniversary of your citizenship in Nova Roma. I just got my computer back and have missed out on recent events. All I can say about what has happened in Nova Roma over the past while is "Wow"! Belated congatulations as well on your daughter's birthday. It may be that I have to take my computer back in, as I am having a different set of problems now, possibly having to do with my scanner or printer. (Still not sure at this point.) Best wishes to you and your family. Ave atque vale, ... Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[novaroma] Dark Days
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 21:19:51 +0100

Salvete Quirites Novae Romae,

My heart is filled with sorrow today. Nicolaus Moravius Vado, Gnaeus
Moravius Piscinus, Livia Marcia Aurelia and Marcus Marcius Rex are good
friends of mine. I have the deepest respect for Marcus Mucius Scaevola
Magister, Lucius Claudius Lucentius Severus Bicurratus, and I fondly respect
Nigellus and Natalia Moravia. This is a loss for the republic of Nova Roma,
and a sad victory for those petty people who have engaged in brutal insults,
death threats, coterie, bigotry, power games, dubious practises and power
abuse.

No, the leavers weren't perfect, they were human like you and I, but at
least they were integre, honest, dedicated and enthusiastic for New Rome. I
will stay in Nova Roma, to right those wrongs that these good people who are
now leaving have suffered. I will stay, with my head held high, in memory of
those who've put their energy in defending their Roman dreams from the
pettiness of others. I will stay, to defend their names from slander from
any backstabber or shadow assassin.

Sometimes we look like we were shot through our heads.

Valete,
Sextus Apollonius Draco


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Dark Days
From:	"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 16:21:32 -0500

Salve,

>>This is a loss for the republic of Nova Roma, and a sad victory for those
petty people who have engaged in brutal insults,
death threats, coterie, bigotry, power games, dubious practises and power
abuse.>>

I very much agree that the loss of *any* citizens is a loss for the nation
as a whole. I would have much preferred they remain among us, but they have
made their choices and I respect them for it. However, no one here has
declared a *victory* of any sort and I am saddened to see you propagate old
divisions by implying that any celebration is taking place. Accusations and
allegations such as those you list above have been the source of trouble for
quite some time now on several fronts. I would respectfully suggest you
refrain from making such allegations, especially those as serious as "death
threats" unless you have some hard evidence to back them up. I ask that of
you only in the regard of responsibility. If, indeed, such were made and
such atrocious actions taken, let the proof come forward or leave the rumors
in the dust.

>>No, the leavers weren't perfect, they were human like you and I, but at
least they were integre, honest, dedicated and enthusiastic for New Rome.>>

I agree with you that those who have left share those attributes. However,
to imply that those who remain do not is unfair to the 780 plus citizens who
make up our fair nation. I am proud and honored to say that we are a nation
blessed with much integrity, honor, dedication and heaps of enthusiasm. I
would respectfully ask you to once again step back from an "us or them"
mentality and not make such statements. Haven't we seen enough discord and
division?

>>I will stay in Nova Roma, to right those wrongs that these good people who
are now leaving have suffered. I will stay, with my head held high, in
memory of those who've put their energy in defending their Roman dreams from
the pettiness of others. I will stay, to defend their names from slander
from any backstabber or shadow assassin.>>

I will say sincerely that I am glad you wish to stay among us. I believe you
have much to offer! I will also say though, with equal honesty, that I wish
your motives were different. Rather than stay to "fight some cause" or
"defend against" attacks that have not come, I truly wish you could say you
were staying because you have a vision for Nova Roma that you wish to help
build. That you were staying to have input and to contribute and to
*celebrate* all that we are. We need good people with a passion for all
things Roman. We do not need any more division. Now, if I have somehow
mistaken your intentions, I apologize. But as it reads above, I do question
whether you stay to be of benefit and enjoy your time here or if you stay to
foster the strife and stresses of the past. There is so much good you can
do here that I truly hope you are deciding to stay "for" the positive, not
"in spite of" the negative. Something to think about at the very least.

Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[novaroma] Documents of Citizenship
From:	"Robert W" <robert@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 16:38:34 -0500

Salvete Omnes: For some time now there has been discussion of how to get more citizens to take part in Nova Roma. We are all aware that there are only a small percentage of citizens who get out to vote on issues or election, or take part on the list or in the Sodalitas, (I to am guilty of not getting involved enough in the Sodalitas.) A couple of years ago, I offered the suggestion that perhaps more citizens would take a greater interest, if perhaps they had something they could hold in their hands or display on their wall that was proof of their citizenship in Nova Roma. An "Official Certificate of Nova Roman Citizenship" or something similar, framed and hanging on their wall at home perhaps, would be a constant reminder that as a citizen of Nova Roma, they have certain rights and obligations that go along with citizenship. Perhaps these rights and obligations could be somewhere in the body of the document. It would have to ba a bit fancy and official looking, with the signatures of the appropriate magistrates of course. This document could be downloaded to a printer from the main Nova Roman website, and then the citizen could have it framed and hung on his or her wall. I offer this suggestion once more. And I ask, is there any reason why this should not be available? If this does not sound like a good or workable idea, I would like to have it explained to me why it is not good or workable.
Ave atque vale, ... Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato, ... robert@-------- ... soon to be ... a.cato@sympatico.ca (I hope)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] A new morning...
From:	SlymnestraRose@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 17:47:54 EST

Ave,

There is only one Sodalitas, on the Muses List, and that is the Sodalitas
Musarum...If you're intrested in joining or you're curious about it..Feel free
to contact me privately.

Vale,
Aeternia

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] ATTN (Religio Romana): ante diem XVII Kalendas Aprilias (March...
From:	SlymnestraRose@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 17:50:58 EST

Salve Pontiff Graecus,

On Bacchanalia, didn't the Bacchai do a special ceremony as well?

Vale,
Aeternia

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] New Addition to the Family
From:	SlymnestraRose@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 17:57:52 EST

Ave,

Congratulations to Oppius and Salonina on their new addition.....And I
welcome him to Nova Roma as well.

Vale,
Aeternia

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[novaroma] =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=FCckgabe_der_B=FCrgerrechte?=
From:	De brevitate vitae <schaefer.paxromana@-------->
Date:	Sat, 17 Mar 2001 00:02:10 +0100 (CET)

Salve B�rger der Provincia Germania,

ich, Caius Valerius Opilio gebe hiermit bekannt, dass ich meine B�rgerrechte in der Provincia Germania und in der Nova Roma unwiderruflich zur�ckgebe. Wenn Dinge zu abstrakt und damit gegenstandslos werden, soll man ihnen den R�cken kehren. Da ich mich als Nachfahre einer auch noch heute recht greifbaren Volkschicht der Provinicia Germania superior f�hle - welche es im Gegensatz zur Provincia Germania gegeben hat - und ich als B�rger des Mosel-Saar-Ruwer-Raumes eine lebhaftere Vorstellung vom "R�merdasein" habe, als es sich in der Nova Roma widerspiegelt, beende ich fortan den abstrakten, gegenstandslosen Schriftverkehr mit der Nova Roma und der sogenannten "Provincia Germania", auf dass die Gelehrten, Humanisten, Studenten und Geisteswissenschaftler fortan unter ihresgleichen bleiben k�nnen. Am Schlu� sei mir bitte die bescheidene Frage erlaubt, was die Baseler Fastnacht mit dem gelebten R�mertum zu tun hat, und warum sie es verdient hat, den Gro�teil der Mitteilungen in der Provincia Germania auszumachen?

Das Gef�hl, R�mer - oder besser Nachfahre r�mischer Einwanderer zu sein - sp�re ich mehr bei meinen Wanderungen in meiner saarl�ndischen Heimat. So unbedeutend mein geliebtes Saarland auch heute sein mag, um so mehr gibt es mir das Gef�hl, was es bedeutet, R�mer zu sein. Es ist nicht die gro�e Politik, es sind nicht die r�mischen Eroberungsfeldz�ge oder der r�mische Imperialismus, welche mich mit Stolz erf�llen. Mich erf�llt mehr der Stolz, da� meine bescheidene Heimat schon vor 2000 Jahren eine nicht unbedeutende Rolle in der damaligen Weltgeschichte gespielt hat. Welche genaue Bedeutung mein Heimatdorf in dieser rheinischen Provinz gespielt hat, wird zwar weiterhin ein Geheimnis bleiben, da leider Gottes nicht gen�gend Geld vorhanden ist, um alle wertvollen Bodendenkm�ler meiner Saarheimat geb�hrend und ausreichend zu erforschen. Aber mein romanisches Heimatgef�hl und meine Verbundenheit mit meinen franz�sischen Nachbarn, die gemeinsame, erlebbare Geschichte kann mir niemand wegnehmen, gleich wie unbedeutend heute vielen die Saar-Lor-Lux-Region erscheint. Ich bin in der beneidenswerten Lage, in meiner bescheidenen Saarheimat den gleichsam unbescheidenen r�mischen Geist zu sp�ren, zu f�hlen, zu riechen und sogar zu schmecken. In diesem Sinne empfehle ich mich.

Vale bene!

Caius Valerius Opilio
--

IhrPreis.de - Aus Freude am Sparen! Hier klicken:
http://www.freenet.de/shopping/wunschpreis/index.html


Subject:	[novaroma] Period Nazis (Withdawal from American Roman Community)
From:	Claudia Octaviana <claudia_octaviana@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:05:05 -0800 (PST)

Period Nazis.

Don't you just love 'em?

Claudia
LEG XI

--- V_Praetoria@-------- wrote:
> My dear friends,
> This is a letter I just sent to the RomanArmy
> groups. I have left
> them completely, but stay faithfully devoted to Nova
> Roma.
>
> Why have we devolved so far as to become the
> "officianados" of what
> is and what is not Roman. When speaking of
> Gladiator, you all have
> nothing to say but criticism. Yes there were
> inaccuracies and flaws,
> but did it not tell a good story? And the one thing
> that you all
> have obviosly failed to see is that it has brought a
> whole new
> generation of people into the roman society. You
> are so quick to to
> sit back and point out the flaws, that you miss the
> merits. Ridley
> Scott told a good story and made people think, "wow,
> Rome was pretty
> cool". Personally, I loved the movie, and I own it
> on DVD.
> I am tired of listening every contidict what we
> don't know.
> Much of Roman History is lost somewhere in time. I
> think that is a
> wonderful thing, because it allows us to speculate
> and wonder what it
> truly was like. So it is with all that said and
> done, that I
> formerly secede from the American Roman Community,
> and branch off
> towards what lies beyond. I will hold true what
> what is know and
> factual, but I will not be bound by what is not
> know. Dogmatic
> attidues and ideologies is not the basis for a Roman
> Historical
> Society.
> I have recieved numerous help from the fine
> cives of Nova Roma,
> and they share and understand my ideas, and are
> working to help make
> them a reality. I by no means hope to offend
> anybody, but this must
> end.
>
> Pontius Sejanus Marius

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: I shall step forward
From:	"Teleri ferch Nyfain" <rckovak@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 18:32:16 -0500

I agree. He has nothing to be "red-faced" about.

Helena Galeria

<<<This is an honorable man.

Claudia Octaviana Califia
Praefectus Legionis - LEG XI>>>>

--- V_Praetoria@-------- wrote:
> My fellow citizens,
> I may be a new member, but by no means am I a
> novice. With the
> recent resignations, it seems that it is a time for
> strong canidates
> to step forward to save our Republic


Subject:	[novaroma] Roman Historical Society group
From:	V_Praetoria@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 22:51:11 -0000

Avete Comiltones
Yet another big day for the RHS (atleast we think so). We have now
added a yahoo groups forum. I invite all who are interested in the
RHS to add yourselves, as this will be the main forum for us. I will
again thank each and everyone of you who helped to make this possible.

Pontius Sejanus Marius

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Roman_Historical_Society


Subject:	[novaroma] A new member (I hope)
From:	mansker@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 22:58:39 -0000

Salve!

I have recently put in a request for citizenship in Nova Roma and
wished to introduce myself.

I applied for membership in Gens Flaccus and will be known
(hopefully) as Gaia Flacca Severa.

As I expect to make some mistakes during the first few weeks (months,
years, decades, eons, etc), I would appreciate any and all help or
correction, and hereby apologize (in advance, and profusely), for any
mistakes that I make.

Bene Vale

Gaia Flacca Servera

(Patricia Mansker in mundane life)


Subject:	[novaroma] Just a few thoughts and a promise.
From:	gcassiusnerva@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 18:47:51 EST

I'm sorry I do not remember the individual who posted, but today someone
posted about being turned off by those who nit-pick at every real or imagined
historical problem with movies such as Gladiator.

I admit to being interested in the real story behind the movies, but I have
to agree with the poster. I liked Gladiator. Remember the ending, which
history fanatics would never forgive, in which it is implied that Senator
Grachus may lead a restoration of the Republic, as the fallen hero Maximus is
carried off? The movie makers here did not wish to portray history
here---they wanted to talk about us, today. With an evil ruler dead, there
is a revival of the Roman virtues waiting to break out. Now there is hope
that old Rome can have a better future. Sure, we all know that the throne
was purchased by someone else after Commodus assumed room-temperature---but
this scene is as much about the choices WE have as it is about the choices
the fictional characters in the movie have.

For myself, I see no dark day here. While I became official as a citizen
yesterday, I have been involved with the new Nova Roma sub-group devoted to
study of the politics, sociaety, and sects of Palestine during the
Hellenic-Roman period. This group looks like it going to be stimulating! I
hope more of you all take a look at it.

Then, I'm in a cool gens with cool people {and I know other gens have very
cool people in them as well!} who have some exciting things going on. One of
my gens is going to be publishing a book later on this year, another is on
the verge of getting a PhD.

NR will be as good or as bad as we make it. I did not join NR to help turn
it into a dung heap, and I don't think anyone else has either.

For my own part, here is my promise that any one else who likes can make in
his or her own way. I intend to be an ornament to the gens Cassia and to NR
in general. I will try my utmost to avoid petty feuds, while not avoiding
taking sides on individual issues that may arise. With a clean slate in
front of me, I can say that I see no one here in NR as an enemy.

If anyone sees me faltering on the above promise, you have my permission to
kick me in the butt.

Thanks to all who sent me welcome messages yesterday! NR is cool, and it
will remain and do well for itself as long as we let it.

Gaius Cassius Nerva

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] A new member (I hope)
From:	gcassiusnerva@--------
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 18:50:00 EST

In a message dated 3/16/01 3:45:55 PM Pacific Standard Time, mansker@--------
writes:

> As I expect to make some mistakes during the first few weeks (months,
> years, decades, eons, etc),

Just dont let yor mistakes be too severa! Ha ha! Sorry.....I could not
resist. It takes a lot of nerva to make stupid jokes.

Gaius Cassius Nerva

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: A new member (I hope)
From:	"Marcus Cassius Julianus" <cassius622@-------->
Date:	Fri, 16 Mar 2001 23:56:25 -0000

Salve,

Oh gods! I actually laughed at that... (hanging head in shame)

Vale,

Marcus Cassius Julianus

--- In novaroma@--------, gcassiusnerva@c... wrote:
> In a message dated 3/16/01 3:45:55 PM Pacific Standard Time,
--------ker@--------
> writes:
>
>
> > As I expect to make some mistakes during the first few weeks
(months,
> > years, decades, eons, etc),
>
> Just dont let yor mistakes be too severa! Ha ha! Sorry.....I
could not
> resist. It takes a lot of nerva to make stupid jokes.
>
> Gaius Cassius Nerva
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]