Forum Romanum


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Roman Movies
From:	"Teleri ferch Nyfain" <rckovak@-------->
Date:	Tue, 3 Apr 2001 20:17:10 -0400

Salvete

<<<Corvo said:

I'd like to see the M Didius Falco series of mystery books on the screen. I
thought Attila the Hun on USA was a fun movie, too.>>>

I would dearly love to see these on screen. Maybe they aren't absolutely
accurate, as someone stated, but I love these books, partly because the
characters are so "man on the street" vs being VIPs of history. One can
only hope :)

Valete,
Helena Galeria


Subject:	[novaroma] Nova Britannia Chat!!!
From:	"Adrian Gunn" <shinjikun@-------->
Date:	Tue, 3 Apr 2001 20:28:38 -0400

Salvete!

I would like to announce the beginning of a scheduled Nova Britannia chat on
the Nova Britannia List web page chat room, every Wednesday night at
9:00-10:00 PM EST (That's 21:00-22:00 GMT -5:00) starting 4/4/01 (that's
tomorrow!). I hope by having regular chats, the citizens of Nova Britannia
can begin to build a stronger sense of community, and I highly encourage all
Nova Britannians to participate! (Other citizens are welcome too!!). I hope
to see you all there!

The address is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NovaBritannia/chat

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Legatus Of Massachusetts


Subject:	[novaroma] Tribunus' Report of Senate Voting
From:	Fortunatus <labienus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 03 Apr 2001 19:28:23 -0500

Tribunus Plebis T Labienus Fortunatus Quiritibus SPD

The Senate has finished its latest session, and the votes have been
tallied. Once again, I ask each Senator who voted to make sure that I
have correctly reported his vote and any comments he may have made.

The following Senatores cast votes. They are referred to below by their
initials.
Marcus Cassius Julianus (MCJ)
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix (LCSF)
Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus (LEC)
Quintus Fabius Maximus (QFM)
Caius Flavius Diocletianus (CFD)
Antonius Gryllus Graecus (AGG)
Alexander Iulius Caesar Probus Macedonius (AICPM)
Titus Labienus Fortunatus (TLF)
Marcus Octavius Germanicus (MOG)
Lucius Sergius Australicus (LSA)
Gaius Tullius Triumphius Cicero (GTTC)
Flavius Vedius Germanicus (FVG)

The following Senatores did not vote. M Minucius was kept from voting
by unavoidable and unforeseen circumstances, and has offered apologies.
Patricia Cassia
Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus
Marcus Iunius Iulianus
Minervina Iucundia Flavia
Gaius Marius Merullus
Marcus Minucius Audens

Item I. Filling Vacant Governorships
A. America Austroccidentalis
Pontius Sejanus Marius
Marcus Flavius
3 abstentions, 5 votes for Pontius Sejanus Marius, 4 votes against
both candidates.
Pontius Sejanus Marius is appointed governor of America
Austroccidentalis

MCJ I vote for Pontius Sejanus Marius. His background looks good,
and I feel he has the enthusiasm necessary for the job.
LCSF ANTIQUO. For the only fact that neither candidate has meet the
requirements necessary for governor.
LEC ANTIQUO, neither candidate meets the requirements set by our own
Senatus Consultum ( http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/sen00020601.htm )
QFM ANTIQUO, The candidates do not meet the requirements set by the
Senatus Consultum on qualifications for the office.
CFD Pontius Sejanus Marius
AGG ANTIQUO. Neither candidate meets the requirements necessary for
governor.
AICPM ABSTINEO It was quite difficult for me to evaluate the every
candidate's program if any was presented especially for the distant
provinces, which social life I do not follow so close.
TLF Pontius Sejanus Marius
MOG I vote for P. Sejanus.
LSA NEGAT to both because neither meets the requirements set for the
office. This is not to say that either might not make a good governor,
but I think we must uphold the requirements we voted into place.
GTTC Being unfamiliar with the remainder of the Praetorian candidates
I must vote ABSTAINEO. In situations were multiple candidates apply and
there are those who do not meet the requirements the choice is obvious.
In cases where there is only the one under qualified candidate we should
adapt a more lenient position.
FVG I vote for Pontius Sejanus Marius. Given recent history in the
province as well as his own stated background, I feel circumstances
warrant waiving our standards for appointing governors in this instance.

B. Australia
Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura
Marcus Arcadius Pius
2 abstentions, 10 votes in favor of Marcus Arcadius Pius.
Marcus Arcadius Pius is appointed governor of Australia.

MCJ I vote for Marcus Arcadius Pius.
LCSF While I praise G. Sentius for his work as my scribe, I must cast
my vote for Pontiff M. Arcadius Pius. He has been a citizen for a long
time and I believe he will do an excellent job as Governor. I also
believe that in time G. Sentius will make an excellent magistrate in the
future! My vote is for M. Arcadius.
LEC Marcus Arcadius Pius
QFM Marcus Arcadius Pius
CFD Marcus Arcadius Pius
AGG I vote Marcus Arcadius Pius.
AICPM ABSTINEO
TLF Marcus Arcadius Pius
MOG I vote for M. Arcadius.
LSA UTI ROGAS to Marcus Arcadius Pius, because he meets the legal
requirements to take office. I hope we are not discouraging G. Sentius,
because his enthusiasm is laudable and I am certain he will make a fine
governor or other senior official some day.
GTTC ABSTINEO
FVG I vote in favor of Marcus Arcadius Pius.

C. Britannia
Titus Sertorius Albinus
2 abstentions, 5 votes in favor, 5 votes against.
No majority voting in favor, no governor is appointed for Britannia.

MCJ I vote Uti Rogas (yes) for Titus Sertorius Albinus. We cannot
leave this position vacant. I did not vote for our current Provincial
Praetor standards because I forsaw situations just like we have here. No
reason to turn down an enthusiastic local representative because they
don't meet all aspects of a set criteria... most especially if they are
the only volunteer for the job.
LCSF ANTIQUO. Again, for the fact that the candidate has not meet
the requirements necessary for governor.
LEC ANTIQUO, the candidate does not meets the requirements set by
our own Senatus Consultum.
QFM ANTIQUO, Even though our Consul has urged us to do elect this
person we must stick to the rules. If we elect one unqulified person
for office, we should elect them all. Sertorius may stand again in two
months and I'm sure he will be successful.
CFD UTI ROGAS
AGG ANTIQUO. While we need a governor for Britannia, this cannot be
the first that appears to us.
AICPM Titus Sertorius Albinus - UTI ROGAS/YES I guess such an
important province as Britannia need to have as soon as possible capable
governor. Britannia has a very special possition as a bridge between
American and European provinces. I like Albinus' posts especially his
efforts to consolidate the province after previous governor resignate. I
hope very much Albinus will participate activly in Limes Cooperation
project as well.
TLF Titus Sertorius Albinus
MOG ABSTINEO
LSA NEGAT. This is a difficult call since T. Sertorius is within 2
months of qualifying, but my dear Mater always told me that "close"
counts with horseshoes and hand grenades - not with the law.
GTTC ABSTINEO
FVG I vote in favor of Titus Sertorius Albinus. The governorship of
Britannia is simply too important to go vacant; I feel circumstances
warrant waiving our standards for appointing governors in this instance.

D. Hispania
Claudius Salix Davianus
3 abstentions, 4 votes in favor, 6 votes against.
No governor is appointed for Hispania.

MCJ I vote Uti Rogas (yes) for Claudius Salix Davianus. He is the
only one to have stepped forward for the position... no reason not to
let him prove himself.
LCSF ANTIQUO. Again, for the fact that the candidate has not meet
the requirements necessary for governor.
LEC ANTIQUO, the candidate does not meets the requirements set by
our own Senatus Consultum.
QFM ANTIQUO, does not meet the requirements set by the Senatus
Consultum on qualifications for the office.
CFD ABSTINEO
AGG ANTIQUO. The candidate does not meet the requirements necessary
for governor.
AICPM UTI ROGAS/YES
TLF Claudius Salix Davianus
MOG ABSTINEO
LSA NEGAT only because his one month of citizenship does not qualify
him.
GTTC ABSTINEO
FVG I vote against Claudius Salix Davianus. I do not believe
circumstances warrant waiving our standards for appointing governors in
this instance; I certainly have nothing against him otherwise.

E. Thule
Titus Curius Dannicus
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
2 abstentions, 6 votes in favor of Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, 4
votes in favor of Titus Curius Dannicus.
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus is appointed governor of Thule.

MCJ I vote in favor of Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, and feel he will
do an excellent job if elected.
LCSF My vote is for Titus Curius.
LEC Titus Curius Dannicus
QFM Caeso Fabius Quintilianus And I take this opportunity to say
how proud I am of Caeso Fabius and his involvement with Nova Roma.
CFD Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
AGG ABSTO.
AICPM Caeso Fabius Quintilianus - UTI ROGAS I consider Quintilianus
to be a little bit more active and that is the reason I vote for him.
TLF Titus Curius Dannicus
MOG I vote for C. Fabius.
LSA UTI ROGAS to T. Curius Dannicus. It is difficult to choose
between these two good men, but a review of my archive indicates that
Dannicus has been actively campaigning for the post since some time last
year.
GTTC ABSTINEO
FVG I vote in favor of Caeso Fabius Quintilianus.

F. Mexico
Marcus Salix Aurelius Hispanicus
3 abstentions, 4 votes in favor, 5 votes against.
No governor is appointed for Mexico.

MCJ I vote Uti Rogas (yes) for Marcus Salix Aurelius Hispanicus.
Again he is the only one to have stepped forward for the position... no
reason not to let him prove himself.
LCSF ANTIQUO. Again, for the fact that the candidate has not meet
the
requirements necessary for governor.
LEC ANTIQUO, the candidate does not meets the requirements set by
our own Senatus Consultum.
QFM ANTIQUO, does not meet the requirements set by the Senatus
Consultum on qualifications for the office.
CFD ABSTINEO
AGG ANTIQUO. The candidate does not meet the requirements necessary
for governor.
AICPM UTI ROGAS That coutry has got the status of a province before
many European ones, but I have not mentioned any traces of NR social
life in Mexico. That may to be changed.
TLF Marcus Salix Aurelius Hispanicus
MOG ABSTINEO
LSA UTI ROGAS
GTTC ABSTINEO
FVG I vote against Marcus Salix Aurelius Hispanicus. I do not
believe circumstances warrant waiving our standards for appointing
governors in this instance; I certainly have nothing against him
otherwise.

Item II. Bohemia
11 votes in favor, 0 votes against.
The measure is approved.

MCJ UTI ROGAS
LCSF UTI ROGAS
LEC UTI ROGAS
QFM UTI ROGAS
CFD UTI ROGAS
AGG UTI ROGAS
AICPM UTI ROGAS/YES The reasons and the pre-histry have been
explained in my previos posts. I am sure that it will be a possitive
signal for CEE countries.
TLF UTI ROGAS
MOG UTI ROGAS
LSA UTI ROGAS
GTTC
FVG UTI ROGAS

Item III. Budget Amendment
12 votes in favor, 0 votes against.
The measure is approved.

MCJ UTI ROGAS
LCSF UTI ROGAS
LEC UTI ROGAS
QFM UTI ROGAS
CFD UTI ROGAS
AGG UTI ROGAS
AICPM UTI ROGAS
TLF UTI ROGAS
MOG UTI ROGAS
LSA UTI ROGAS
GTTC UTI ROGAS
FVG UTI ROGAS

Item IV. Name-change of Provincia Mexico
1 abstention, 4 votes in favor, 7 votes against.
The measure is defeated.

MCJ I vote Uti Rogas (yes) to the change. It's historically correct,
shorter and easier to use.
LCSF ANTIQUO
LEC ANTIQUO
QFM ANTIQUO. My reasoning is simple. Most Mexicans do not wish to
reminded they were held in bondage to Hispania. Perhaps we can find a
more suitable Latin name for province other then Nova Hispania.
CFD NEGAT. The honoured Collega M. Octavius Germanicus pointed out
the reasons very well. I have nothing to add.
AGG ABSTO
AICPM I like the idea, nevertheless I do not know how the cives living
there accept it. Nevertheless, I vote - UTI ROGAS/YES
TLF NEGAT
MOG NEGAT. I have not seen justification for why this should be
done, and have read of several objections due to modern Mexicans wanting
to assert their independence from Spain. Until a sufficient number of
citizens of this province formally request this, we should leave the
name alone.
LSA NEGAT. I don't think this change is wise when we don't know the
wishes of a significant number of the inhabitants of the province. I,
for one, would not want Australia called Nova Britannia even if that
name were not already taken.
GTTC UTI ROGAS - With the support of the Preator of the respective
province and only speculation in opposition I see no problem to comply.
FVG ABSTAIN

Item V. Sponsorship of Legio XI in San Diego, CA
2 abstentions, 6 votes in favor, 4 votes against.
The measure is approved.

MCJ I vote Negat... but only because these folks seem to be in too
early a stage to work with properly. A group without equipment and other
such necessities must work on basics before branching out with a
sponsorship. I do hope that these folks can be encouraged to reply at a
later time once they've had more chance to form a stable foundation.
LCSF I abstain. This is a very difficult issue for me because I do
not have sufficient knowledge of reenactments to truly make an informed
decision. This is because reenactments have never been a passion for
me.....In the future, as a suggestion, I would like to have a
recommendation from the Sodalitas Militarum...since they would be the
logical body to help those of us who are not reenactment orientated to
make an informed decision. I did review the emails submitted by Consul
Germanicus, but they were not enough for me to make an informed decision
to recommend or deny.
LEC ANTIQUO
QFM UTI ROGAS While it appears this will go down to defeat, I gave
my word of support to my Californian citizen and her project, another
Nova Roma recruiting tool. While I understand and respect my
colleagues' decision, I cannot help to feel that they missed the bigger
picture here. Nevertheless, Claudia may reapply at a later date and
still gain recognition. This does not close doors.
CFD UTI ROGAS
AGG UTI ROGAS
AICPM UTI ROGAS Why not, moreover we have granted sponsorship to
other Legios too.
TLF ABSTINEO
MOG UTI ROGAS. It's been said that an all-female legion is not
historically authentic, and may cause some of our other legions to
object. However, we already have female Senators and Propraetors. We
made the decision a long time ago that equality and nondiscrimination
are more important than complete historical accuracy. These people want
to participate, want to ally themselves with Nova Roma; let us not turn
them away.
LSA UTI ROGAS. I understand, and to some extent share, the
misgivings that have been stated. However, I do not think that because
women did not (to our knowledge) fight in the legions of Roma Antiqva,
we should try to discourage the interest of modern women in
participating in reconstructionist activities according to their choice.
The gender biases of Roma Antiqva are among those traditions that we
have specifically rejected in Nova Roma.
GTTC NEGAT - I am all for the Sponsership of Legions but with new
information in the middle of the voting session I think we should look a
little more carefully at this proposal before making any committments.
FVG NEGAT (no). While I do not believe the chosen level of
authenticity for the unit is a disqualifying factor per se, the group in
question seems to be still in the early stages of formation (for
example, in their application they state they don't as of yet have any
arms or armor, a pretty basic requirement for a reenactment legio). I
suggest that the legio be given time to become established and get a
firm foundation for itself, at which time it should be encouraged to
re-apply for sponsorship.

Valete


Subject:	[novaroma] New Governor of Australia Provincia
From:	Craig Stevenson <dougies@-------->
Date:	Wed, 04 Apr 2001 12:01:27 +0930

Ave pater conscripti et quirites,

I am writing to congratulate the new governor of Australia provincia, Marcus
Arcadius Pius, and also to wish my opponent in this race good luck, and hope
that the gods may look upon him favourably. It seems that in this contest,
the best man won!:-)

I would like all Nova Romans to join me in congratulating him, in the
knowledge that he will make a fine governor propratore!

Valete bene,

Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura

Fortunatus wrote:

> Tribunus Plebis T Labienus Fortunatus Quiritibus SPD
>
> The Senate has finished its latest session, and the votes have been
> tallied. Once again, I ask each Senator who voted to make sure that I
> have correctly reported his vote and any comments he may have made.
>
> The following Senatores cast votes. They are referred to below by their
> initials.
> Marcus Cassius Julianus (MCJ)
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix (LCSF)
> Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus (LEC)
> Quintus Fabius Maximus (QFM)
> Caius Flavius Diocletianus (CFD)
> Antonius Gryllus Graecus (AGG)
> Alexander Iulius Caesar Probus Macedonius (AICPM)
> Titus Labienus Fortunatus (TLF)
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus (MOG)
> Lucius Sergius Australicus (LSA)
> Gaius Tullius Triumphius Cicero (GTTC)
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus (FVG)
>
> The following Senatores did not vote. M Minucius was kept from voting
> by unavoidable and unforeseen circumstances, and has offered apologies.
> Patricia Cassia
> Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus
> Marcus Iunius Iulianus
> Minervina Iucundia Flavia
> Gaius Marius Merullus
> Marcus Minucius Audens
>
> Item I. Filling Vacant Governorships
> A. America Austroccidentalis
> Pontius Sejanus Marius
> Marcus Flavius
> 3 abstentions, 5 votes for Pontius Sejanus Marius, 4 votes against
> both candidates.
> Pontius Sejanus Marius is appointed governor of America
> Austroccidentalis
>
> MCJ I vote for Pontius Sejanus Marius. His background looks good,
> and I feel he has the enthusiasm necessary for the job.
> LCSF ANTIQUO. For the only fact that neither candidate has meet the
> requirements necessary for governor.
> LEC ANTIQUO, neither candidate meets the requirements set by our own
> Senatus Consultum ( http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/sen00020601.htm )
> QFM ANTIQUO, The candidates do not meet the requirements set by the
> Senatus Consultum on qualifications for the office.
> CFD Pontius Sejanus Marius
> AGG ANTIQUO. Neither candidate meets the requirements necessary for
> governor.
> AICPM ABSTINEO It was quite difficult for me to evaluate the every
> candidate's program if any was presented especially for the distant
> provinces, which social life I do not follow so close.
> TLF Pontius Sejanus Marius
> MOG I vote for P. Sejanus.
> LSA NEGAT to both because neither meets the requirements set for the
> office. This is not to say that either might not make a good governor,
> but I think we must uphold the requirements we voted into place.
> GTTC Being unfamiliar with the remainder of the Praetorian candidates
> I must vote ABSTAINEO. In situations were multiple candidates apply and
> there are those who do not meet the requirements the choice is obvious.
> In cases where there is only the one under qualified candidate we should
> adapt a more lenient position.
> FVG I vote for Pontius Sejanus Marius. Given recent history in the
> province as well as his own stated background, I feel circumstances
> warrant waiving our standards for appointing governors in this instance.
>
> B. Australia
> Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura
> Marcus Arcadius Pius
> 2 abstentions, 10 votes in favor of Marcus Arcadius Pius.
> Marcus Arcadius Pius is appointed governor of Australia.
>
> MCJ I vote for Marcus Arcadius Pius.
> LCSF While I praise G. Sentius for his work as my scribe, I must cast
> my vote for Pontiff M. Arcadius Pius. He has been a citizen for a long
> time and I believe he will do an excellent job as Governor. I also
> believe that in time G. Sentius will make an excellent magistrate in the
> future! My vote is for M. Arcadius.
> LEC Marcus Arcadius Pius
> QFM Marcus Arcadius Pius
> CFD Marcus Arcadius Pius
> AGG I vote Marcus Arcadius Pius.
> AICPM ABSTINEO
> TLF Marcus Arcadius Pius
> MOG I vote for M. Arcadius.
> LSA UTI ROGAS to Marcus Arcadius Pius, because he meets the legal
> requirements to take office. I hope we are not discouraging G. Sentius,
> because his enthusiasm is laudable and I am certain he will make a fine
> governor or other senior official some day.
> GTTC ABSTINEO
> FVG I vote in favor of Marcus Arcadius Pius.
>
> C. Britannia
> Titus Sertorius Albinus
> 2 abstentions, 5 votes in favor, 5 votes against.
> No majority voting in favor, no governor is appointed for Britannia.
>
> MCJ I vote Uti Rogas (yes) for Titus Sertorius Albinus. We cannot
> leave this position vacant. I did not vote for our current Provincial
> Praetor standards because I forsaw situations just like we have here. No
> reason to turn down an enthusiastic local representative because they
> don't meet all aspects of a set criteria... most especially if they are
> the only volunteer for the job.
> LCSF ANTIQUO. Again, for the fact that the candidate has not meet
> the requirements necessary for governor.
> LEC ANTIQUO, the candidate does not meets the requirements set by
> our own Senatus Consultum.
> QFM ANTIQUO, Even though our Consul has urged us to do elect this
> person we must stick to the rules. If we elect one unqulified person
> for office, we should elect them all. Sertorius may stand again in two
> months and I'm sure he will be successful.
> CFD UTI ROGAS
> AGG ANTIQUO. While we need a governor for Britannia, this cannot be
> the first that appears to us.
> AICPM Titus Sertorius Albinus - UTI ROGAS/YES I guess such an
> important province as Britannia need to have as soon as possible capable
> governor. Britannia has a very special possition as a bridge between
> American and European provinces. I like Albinus' posts especially his
> efforts to consolidate the province after previous governor resignate. I
> hope very much Albinus will participate activly in Limes Cooperation
> project as well.
> TLF Titus Sertorius Albinus
> MOG ABSTINEO
> LSA NEGAT. This is a difficult call since T. Sertorius is within 2
> months of qualifying, but my dear Mater always told me that "close"
> counts with horseshoes and hand grenades - not with the law.
> GTTC ABSTINEO
> FVG I vote in favor of Titus Sertorius Albinus. The governorship of
> Britannia is simply too important to go vacant; I feel circumstances
> warrant waiving our standards for appointing governors in this instance.
>
> D. Hispania
> Claudius Salix Davianus
> 3 abstentions, 4 votes in favor, 6 votes against.
> No governor is appointed for Hispania.
>
> MCJ I vote Uti Rogas (yes) for Claudius Salix Davianus. He is the
> only one to have stepped forward for the position... no reason not to
> let him prove himself.
> LCSF ANTIQUO. Again, for the fact that the candidate has not meet
> the requirements necessary for governor.
> LEC ANTIQUO, the candidate does not meets the requirements set by
> our own Senatus Consultum.
> QFM ANTIQUO, does not meet the requirements set by the Senatus
> Consultum on qualifications for the office.
> CFD ABSTINEO
> AGG ANTIQUO. The candidate does not meet the requirements necessary
> for governor.
> AICPM UTI ROGAS/YES
> TLF Claudius Salix Davianus
> MOG ABSTINEO
> LSA NEGAT only because his one month of citizenship does not qualify
> him.
> GTTC ABSTINEO
> FVG I vote against Claudius Salix Davianus. I do not believe
> circumstances warrant waiving our standards for appointing governors in
> this instance; I certainly have nothing against him otherwise.
>
> E. Thule
> Titus Curius Dannicus
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> 2 abstentions, 6 votes in favor of Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, 4
> votes in favor of Titus Curius Dannicus.
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus is appointed governor of Thule.
>
> MCJ I vote in favor of Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, and feel he will
> do an excellent job if elected.
> LCSF My vote is for Titus Curius.
> LEC Titus Curius Dannicus
> QFM Caeso Fabius Quintilianus And I take this opportunity to say
> how proud I am of Caeso Fabius and his involvement with Nova Roma.
> CFD Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> AGG ABSTO.
> AICPM Caeso Fabius Quintilianus - UTI ROGAS I consider Quintilianus
> to be a little bit more active and that is the reason I vote for him.
> TLF Titus Curius Dannicus
> MOG I vote for C. Fabius.
> LSA UTI ROGAS to T. Curius Dannicus. It is difficult to choose
> between these two good men, but a review of my archive indicates that
> Dannicus has been actively campaigning for the post since some time last
> year.
> GTTC ABSTINEO
> FVG I vote in favor of Caeso Fabius Quintilianus.
>
> F. Mexico
> Marcus Salix Aurelius Hispanicus
> 3 abstentions, 4 votes in favor, 5 votes against.
> No governor is appointed for Mexico.
>
> MCJ I vote Uti Rogas (yes) for Marcus Salix Aurelius Hispanicus.
> Again he is the only one to have stepped forward for the position... no
> reason not to let him prove himself.
> LCSF ANTIQUO. Again, for the fact that the candidate has not meet
> the
> requirements necessary for governor.
> LEC ANTIQUO, the candidate does not meets the requirements set by
> our own Senatus Consultum.
> QFM ANTIQUO, does not meet the requirements set by the Senatus
> Consultum on qualifications for the office.
> CFD ABSTINEO
> AGG ANTIQUO. The candidate does not meet the requirements necessary
> for governor.
> AICPM UTI ROGAS That coutry has got the status of a province before
> many European ones, but I have not mentioned any traces of NR social
> life in Mexico. That may to be changed.
> TLF Marcus Salix Aurelius Hispanicus
> MOG ABSTINEO
> LSA UTI ROGAS
> GTTC ABSTINEO
> FVG I vote against Marcus Salix Aurelius Hispanicus. I do not
> believe circumstances warrant waiving our standards for appointing
> governors in this instance; I certainly have nothing against him
> otherwise.
>
> Item II. Bohemia
> 11 votes in favor, 0 votes against.
> The measure is approved.
>
> MCJ UTI ROGAS
> LCSF UTI ROGAS
> LEC UTI ROGAS
> QFM UTI ROGAS
> CFD UTI ROGAS
> AGG UTI ROGAS
> AICPM UTI ROGAS/YES The reasons and the pre-histry have been
> explained in my previos posts. I am sure that it will be a possitive
> signal for CEE countries.
> TLF UTI ROGAS
> MOG UTI ROGAS
> LSA UTI ROGAS
> GTTC
> FVG UTI ROGAS
>
> Item III. Budget Amendment
> 12 votes in favor, 0 votes against.
> The measure is approved.
>
> MCJ UTI ROGAS
> LCSF UTI ROGAS
> LEC UTI ROGAS
> QFM UTI ROGAS
> CFD UTI ROGAS
> AGG UTI ROGAS
> AICPM UTI ROGAS
> TLF UTI ROGAS
> MOG UTI ROGAS
> LSA UTI ROGAS
> GTTC UTI ROGAS
> FVG UTI ROGAS
>
> Item IV. Name-change of Provincia Mexico
> 1 abstention, 4 votes in favor, 7 votes against.
> The measure is defeated.
>
> MCJ I vote Uti Rogas (yes) to the change. It's historically correct,
> shorter and easier to use.
> LCSF ANTIQUO
> LEC ANTIQUO
> QFM ANTIQUO. My reasoning is simple. Most Mexicans do not wish to
> reminded they were held in bondage to Hispania. Perhaps we can find a
> more suitable Latin name for province other then Nova Hispania.
> CFD NEGAT. The honoured Collega M. Octavius Germanicus pointed out
> the reasons very well. I have nothing to add.
> AGG ABSTO
> AICPM I like the idea, nevertheless I do not know how the cives living
> there accept it. Nevertheless, I vote - UTI ROGAS/YES
> TLF NEGAT
> MOG NEGAT. I have not seen justification for why this should be
> done, and have read of several objections due to modern Mexicans wanting
> to assert their independence from Spain. Until a sufficient number of
> citizens of this province formally request this, we should leave the
> name alone.
> LSA NEGAT. I don't think this change is wise when we don't know the
> wishes of a significant number of the inhabitants of the province. I,
> for one, would not want Australia called Nova Britannia even if that
> name were not already taken.
> GTTC UTI ROGAS - With the support of the Preator of the respective
> province and only speculation in opposition I see no problem to comply.
> FVG ABSTAIN
>
> Item V. Sponsorship of Legio XI in San Diego, CA
> 2 abstentions, 6 votes in favor, 4 votes against.
> The measure is approved.
>
> MCJ I vote Negat... but only because these folks seem to be in too
> early a stage to work with properly. A group without equipment and other
> such necessities must work on basics before branching out with a
> sponsorship. I do hope that these folks can be encouraged to reply at a
> later time once they've had more chance to form a stable foundation.
> LCSF I abstain. This is a very difficult issue for me because I do
> not have sufficient knowledge of reenactments to truly make an informed
> decision. This is because reenactments have never been a passion for
> me.....In the future, as a suggestion, I would like to have a
> recommendation from the Sodalitas Militarum...since they would be the
> logical body to help those of us who are not reenactment orientated to
> make an informed decision. I did review the emails submitted by Consul
> Germanicus, but they were not enough for me to make an informed decision
> to recommend or deny.
> LEC ANTIQUO
> QFM UTI ROGAS While it appears this will go down to defeat, I gave
> my word of support to my Californian citizen and her project, another
> Nova Roma recruiting tool. While I understand and respect my
> colleagues' decision, I cannot help to feel that they missed the bigger
> picture here. Nevertheless, Claudia may reapply at a later date and
> still gain recognition. This does not close doors.
> CFD UTI ROGAS
> AGG UTI ROGAS
> AICPM UTI ROGAS Why not, moreover we have granted sponsorship to
> other Legios too.
> TLF ABSTINEO
> MOG UTI ROGAS. It's been said that an all-female legion is not
> historically authentic, and may cause some of our other legions to
> object. However, we already have female Senators and Propraetors. We
> made the decision a long time ago that equality and nondiscrimination
> are more important than complete historical accuracy. These people want
> to participate, want to ally themselves with Nova Roma; let us not turn
> them away.
> LSA UTI ROGAS. I understand, and to some extent share, the
> misgivings that have been stated. However, I do not think that because
> women did not (to our knowledge) fight in the legions of Roma Antiqva,
> we should try to discourage the interest of modern women in
> participating in reconstructionist activities according to their choice.
> The gender biases of Roma Antiqva are among those traditions that we
> have specifically rejected in Nova Roma.
> GTTC NEGAT - I am all for the Sponsership of Legions but with new
> information in the middle of the voting session I think we should look a
> little more carefully at this proposal before making any committments.
> FVG NEGAT (no). While I do not believe the chosen level of
> authenticity for the unit is a disqualifying factor per se, the group in
> question seems to be still in the early stages of formation (for
> example, in their application they state they don't as of yet have any
> arms or armor, a pretty basic requirement for a reenactment legio). I
> suggest that the legio be given time to become established and get a
> firm foundation for itself, at which time it should be encouraged to
> re-apply for sponsorship.
>
> Valete
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[novaroma] Election day in Roma
From:	britil@--------
Date:	Wed, 04 Apr 2001 00:18:59 -0000

Yes it has been a great day for the election. There has been heated
debate and cantor amongest the people of Roma. I can just see a crowd
gathered in a square talking about the current election. I can see
anticipation in the faces of each speaker. As the hussel and bussel
of daily Roman life carries on as they speak. Some other stopping by
to say their thoughts on the matter. There is one thing that truly is
great about all this and that is even if there is some disagreement
on issues there is one common bound each have and that is they are
Roman. No matter which side they my chose or which canidate they
prefer each is still Roman. Remember this most of all no matter what
Rome first.

Marcus Flavius


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Citizens, Please Vote!
From:	"A. Cato" <a.cato@-------->
Date:	Tue, 3 Apr 2001 23:10:13 -0400

Salve: Another citizen already sent this information to the list. I will
repeat it here. In order to vote, go to this link;
http://www.novaroma.org/cursus_honorum/voting/ . If you have any questions
about your voting codes, please check to see if your voting code was already
sent to you. If not, or if there is any other problem, contact the Censors
at censors@-------- . At the main Nova Roma web site there is other
information on voting procedures. You should be able to find information
there that will answer any other questions that you have. If not, then then
please send an E-mail to this list again with your questions. We will do our
best to answer them, or direct you to someone who can.
Vale, ... Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato, ... civis Novae Romae et
Rogator.

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Sanchez" <davius_sanctex@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 7:22 PM
Subject: RE: [novaroma] Citizens, Please Vote!

> Many citizens don't know how to make effective his/her vote!!!
>
>
>
> > Salvete Omnes: As part of my duty as Rogator, I would like to remind
all
> Nova Romans that voting in elections is not only their right, but also
their
> duty as citizens. Although the Comitia Plebis Tributa has been convened
and
> elections and voting have started, the election and voting is still
> continuing in the Comitia Populi Tributi until 1:00 A.M. Thursday, April
5th
> (7 P.M. Wednesday, Eastern time.) I urge all citizens who have not yet
done
> so, to exercise their right to participate in the life of Nova Roma, and
go
> to the Cista to vote. May the Gods and Goddesses of Nova Roma help us all
to
> choose wisely.
> > Ave atque vale, .... Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato
> > civis Novae Romae
> > Rogator
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] New Governor of Australia Provincia
From:	Mark A Bird <mark_a_bird@-------->
Date:	Wed, 4 Apr 2001 13:32:41 +1000

Ave

I would also like to congratulate the new Governor of our Province and I am
thankful to the Senate and the People of Rome for giving us in Australia a
new Governor, as there appears to many provinces without Governors.

Vale

Marcus Sentius Claudius

-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Stevenson [mailto:dougies@--------]
Sent: Wednesday, 4 April 2001 12:31 Pm
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: [novaroma] New Governor of Australia Provincia

Ave pater conscripti et quirites,

I am writing to congratulate the new governor of Australia provincia, Marcus
Arcadius Pius, and also to wish my opponent in this race good luck, and hope
that the gods may look upon him favourably. It seems that in this contest,
the best man won!:-)

I would like all Nova Romans to join me in congratulating him, in the
knowledge that he will make a fine governor propratore!

Valete bene,

Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura

Fortunatus wrote:

> Tribunus Plebis T Labienus Fortunatus Quiritibus SPD
>
> The Senate has finished its latest session, and the votes have been
> tallied. Once again, I ask each Senator who voted to make sure that I
> have correctly reported his vote and any comments he may have made.
>
> The following Senatores cast votes. They are referred to below by their
> initials.
> Marcus Cassius Julianus (MCJ)
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix (LCSF)
> Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus (LEC)
> Quintus Fabius Maximus (QFM)
> Caius Flavius Diocletianus (CFD)
> Antonius Gryllus Graecus (AGG)
> Alexander Iulius Caesar Probus Macedonius (AICPM)
> Titus Labienus Fortunatus (TLF)
> Marcus Octavius Germanicus (MOG)
> Lucius Sergius Australicus (LSA)
> Gaius Tullius Triumphius Cicero (GTTC)
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus (FVG)
>
> The following Senatores did not vote. M Minucius was kept from voting
> by unavoidable and unforeseen circumstances, and has offered apologies.
> Patricia Cassia
> Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus
> Marcus Iunius Iulianus
> Minervina Iucundia Flavia
> Gaius Marius Merullus
> Marcus Minucius Audens
>
> Item I. Filling Vacant Governorships
> A. America Austroccidentalis
> Pontius Sejanus Marius
> Marcus Flavius
> 3 abstentions, 5 votes for Pontius Sejanus Marius, 4 votes against
> both candidates.
> Pontius Sejanus Marius is appointed governor of America
> Austroccidentalis
>
> MCJ I vote for Pontius Sejanus Marius. His background looks good,
> and I feel he has the enthusiasm necessary for the job.
> LCSF ANTIQUO. For the only fact that neither candidate has meet the
> requirements necessary for governor.
> LEC ANTIQUO, neither candidate meets the requirements set by our own
> Senatus Consultum ( http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/sen00020601.htm )
> QFM ANTIQUO, The candidates do not meet the requirements set by the
> Senatus Consultum on qualifications for the office.
> CFD Pontius Sejanus Marius
> AGG ANTIQUO. Neither candidate meets the requirements necessary for
> governor.
> AICPM ABSTINEO It was quite difficult for me to evaluate the every
> candidate's program if any was presented especially for the distant
> provinces, which social life I do not follow so close.
> TLF Pontius Sejanus Marius
> MOG I vote for P. Sejanus.
> LSA NEGAT to both because neither meets the requirements set for the
> office. This is not to say that either might not make a good governor,
> but I think we must uphold the requirements we voted into place.
> GTTC Being unfamiliar with the remainder of the Praetorian candidates
> I must vote ABSTAINEO. In situations were multiple candidates apply and
> there are those who do not meet the requirements the choice is obvious.
> In cases where there is only the one under qualified candidate we should
> adapt a more lenient position.
> FVG I vote for Pontius Sejanus Marius. Given recent history in the
> province as well as his own stated background, I feel circumstances
> warrant waiving our standards for appointing governors in this instance.
>
> B. Australia
> Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura
> Marcus Arcadius Pius
> 2 abstentions, 10 votes in favor of Marcus Arcadius Pius.
> Marcus Arcadius Pius is appointed governor of Australia.
>
> MCJ I vote for Marcus Arcadius Pius.
> LCSF While I praise G. Sentius for his work as my scribe, I must cast
> my vote for Pontiff M. Arcadius Pius. He has been a citizen for a long
> time and I believe he will do an excellent job as Governor. I also
> believe that in time G. Sentius will make an excellent magistrate in the
> future! My vote is for M. Arcadius.
> LEC Marcus Arcadius Pius
> QFM Marcus Arcadius Pius
> CFD Marcus Arcadius Pius
> AGG I vote Marcus Arcadius Pius.
> AICPM ABSTINEO
> TLF Marcus Arcadius Pius
> MOG I vote for M. Arcadius.
> LSA UTI ROGAS to Marcus Arcadius Pius, because he meets the legal
> requirements to take office. I hope we are not discouraging G. Sentius,
> because his enthusiasm is laudable and I am certain he will make a fine
> governor or other senior official some day.
> GTTC ABSTINEO
> FVG I vote in favor of Marcus Arcadius Pius.
>
> C. Britannia
> Titus Sertorius Albinus
> 2 abstentions, 5 votes in favor, 5 votes against.
> No majority voting in favor, no governor is appointed for Britannia.
>
> MCJ I vote Uti Rogas (yes) for Titus Sertorius Albinus. We cannot
> leave this position vacant. I did not vote for our current Provincial
> Praetor standards because I forsaw situations just like we have here. No
> reason to turn down an enthusiastic local representative because they
> don't meet all aspects of a set criteria... most especially if they are
> the only volunteer for the job.
> LCSF ANTIQUO. Again, for the fact that the candidate has not meet
> the requirements necessary for governor.
> LEC ANTIQUO, the candidate does not meets the requirements set by
> our own Senatus Consultum.
> QFM ANTIQUO, Even though our Consul has urged us to do elect this
> person we must stick to the rules. If we elect one unqulified person
> for office, we should elect them all. Sertorius may stand again in two
> months and I'm sure he will be successful.
> CFD UTI ROGAS
> AGG ANTIQUO. While we need a governor for Britannia, this cannot be
> the first that appears to us.
> AICPM Titus Sertorius Albinus - UTI ROGAS/YES I guess such an
> important province as Britannia need to have as soon as possible capable
> governor. Britannia has a very special possition as a bridge between
> American and European provinces. I like Albinus' posts especially his
> efforts to consolidate the province after previous governor resignate. I
> hope very much Albinus will participate activly in Limes Cooperation
> project as well.
> TLF Titus Sertorius Albinus
> MOG ABSTINEO
> LSA NEGAT. This is a difficult call since T. Sertorius is within 2
> months of qualifying, but my dear Mater always told me that "close"
> counts with horseshoes and hand grenades - not with the law.
> GTTC ABSTINEO
> FVG I vote in favor of Titus Sertorius Albinus. The governorship of
> Britannia is simply too important to go vacant; I feel circumstances
> warrant waiving our standards for appointing governors in this instance.
>
> D. Hispania
> Claudius Salix Davianus
> 3 abstentions, 4 votes in favor, 6 votes against.
> No governor is appointed for Hispania.
>
> MCJ I vote Uti Rogas (yes) for Claudius Salix Davianus. He is the
> only one to have stepped forward for the position... no reason not to
> let him prove himself.
> LCSF ANTIQUO. Again, for the fact that the candidate has not meet
> the requirements necessary for governor.
> LEC ANTIQUO, the candidate does not meets the requirements set by
> our own Senatus Consultum.
> QFM ANTIQUO, does not meet the requirements set by the Senatus
> Consultum on qualifications for the office.
> CFD ABSTINEO
> AGG ANTIQUO. The candidate does not meet the requirements necessary
> for governor.
> AICPM UTI ROGAS/YES
> TLF Claudius Salix Davianus
> MOG ABSTINEO
> LSA NEGAT only because his one month of citizenship does not qualify
> him.
> GTTC ABSTINEO
> FVG I vote against Claudius Salix Davianus. I do not believe
> circumstances warrant waiving our standards for appointing governors in
> this instance; I certainly have nothing against him otherwise.
>
> E. Thule
> Titus Curius Dannicus
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> 2 abstentions, 6 votes in favor of Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, 4
> votes in favor of Titus Curius Dannicus.
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus is appointed governor of Thule.
>
> MCJ I vote in favor of Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, and feel he will
> do an excellent job if elected.
> LCSF My vote is for Titus Curius.
> LEC Titus Curius Dannicus
> QFM Caeso Fabius Quintilianus And I take this opportunity to say
> how proud I am of Caeso Fabius and his involvement with Nova Roma.
> CFD Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> AGG ABSTO.
> AICPM Caeso Fabius Quintilianus - UTI ROGAS I consider Quintilianus
> to be a little bit more active and that is the reason I vote for him.
> TLF Titus Curius Dannicus
> MOG I vote for C. Fabius.
> LSA UTI ROGAS to T. Curius Dannicus. It is difficult to choose
> between these two good men, but a review of my archive indicates that
> Dannicus has been actively campaigning for the post since some time last
> year.
> GTTC ABSTINEO
> FVG I vote in favor of Caeso Fabius Quintilianus.
>
> F. Mexico
> Marcus Salix Aurelius Hispanicus
> 3 abstentions, 4 votes in favor, 5 votes against.
> No governor is appointed for Mexico.
>
> MCJ I vote Uti Rogas (yes) for Marcus Salix Aurelius Hispanicus.
> Again he is the only one to have stepped forward for the position... no
> reason not to let him prove himself.
> LCSF ANTIQUO. Again, for the fact that the candidate has not meet
> the
> requirements necessary for governor.
> LEC ANTIQUO, the candidate does not meets the requirements set by
> our own Senatus Consultum.
> QFM ANTIQUO, does not meet the requirements set by the Senatus
> Consultum on qualifications for the office.
> CFD ABSTINEO
> AGG ANTIQUO. The candidate does not meet the requirements necessary
> for governor.
> AICPM UTI ROGAS That coutry has got the status of a province before
> many European ones, but I have not mentioned any traces of NR social
> life in Mexico. That may to be changed.
> TLF Marcus Salix Aurelius Hispanicus
> MOG ABSTINEO
> LSA UTI ROGAS
> GTTC ABSTINEO
> FVG I vote against Marcus Salix Aurelius Hispanicus. I do not
> believe circumstances warrant waiving our standards for appointing
> governors in this instance; I certainly have nothing against him
> otherwise.
>
> Item II. Bohemia
> 11 votes in favor, 0 votes against.
> The measure is approved.
>
> MCJ UTI ROGAS
> LCSF UTI ROGAS
> LEC UTI ROGAS
> QFM UTI ROGAS
> CFD UTI ROGAS
> AGG UTI ROGAS
> AICPM UTI ROGAS/YES The reasons and the pre-histry have been
> explained in my previos posts. I am sure that it will be a possitive
> signal for CEE countries.
> TLF UTI ROGAS
> MOG UTI ROGAS
> LSA UTI ROGAS
> GTTC
> FVG UTI ROGAS
>
> Item III. Budget Amendment
> 12 votes in favor, 0 votes against.
> The measure is approved.
>
> MCJ UTI ROGAS
> LCSF UTI ROGAS
> LEC UTI ROGAS
> QFM UTI ROGAS
> CFD UTI ROGAS
> AGG UTI ROGAS
> AICPM UTI ROGAS
> TLF UTI ROGAS
> MOG UTI ROGAS
> LSA UTI ROGAS
> GTTC UTI ROGAS
> FVG UTI ROGAS
>
> Item IV. Name-change of Provincia Mexico
> 1 abstention, 4 votes in favor, 7 votes against.
> The measure is defeated.
>
> MCJ I vote Uti Rogas (yes) to the change. It's historically correct,
> shorter and easier to use.
> LCSF ANTIQUO
> LEC ANTIQUO
> QFM ANTIQUO. My reasoning is simple. Most Mexicans do not wish to
> reminded they were held in bondage to Hispania. Perhaps we can find a
> more suitable Latin name for province other then Nova Hispania.
> CFD NEGAT. The honoured Collega M. Octavius Germanicus pointed out
> the reasons very well. I have nothing to add.
> AGG ABSTO
> AICPM I like the idea, nevertheless I do not know how the cives living
> there accept it. Nevertheless, I vote - UTI ROGAS/YES
> TLF NEGAT
> MOG NEGAT. I have not seen justification for why this should be
> done, and have read of several objections due to modern Mexicans wanting
> to assert their independence from Spain. Until a sufficient number of
> citizens of this province formally request this, we should leave the
> name alone.
> LSA NEGAT. I don't think this change is wise when we don't know the
> wishes of a significant number of the inhabitants of the province. I,
> for one, would not want Australia called Nova Britannia even if that
> name were not already taken.
> GTTC UTI ROGAS - With the support of the Preator of the respective
> province and only speculation in opposition I see no problem to comply.
> FVG ABSTAIN
>
> Item V. Sponsorship of Legio XI in San Diego, CA
> 2 abstentions, 6 votes in favor, 4 votes against.
> The measure is approved.
>
> MCJ I vote Negat... but only because these folks seem to be in too
> early a stage to work with properly. A group without equipment and other
> such necessities must work on basics before branching out with a
> sponsorship. I do hope that these folks can be encouraged to reply at a
> later time once they've had more chance to form a stable foundation.
> LCSF I abstain. This is a very difficult issue for me because I do
> not have sufficient knowledge of reenactments to truly make an informed
> decision. This is because reenactments have never been a passion for
> me.....In the future, as a suggestion, I would like to have a
> recommendation from the Sodalitas Militarum...since they would be the
> logical body to help those of us who are not reenactment orientated to
> make an informed decision. I did review the emails submitted by Consul
> Germanicus, but they were not enough for me to make an informed decision
> to recommend or deny.
> LEC ANTIQUO
> QFM UTI ROGAS While it appears this will go down to defeat, I gave
> my word of support to my Californian citizen and her project, another
> Nova Roma recruiting tool. While I understand and respect my
> colleagues' decision, I cannot help to feel that they missed the bigger
> picture here. Nevertheless, Claudia may reapply at a later date and
> still gain recognition. This does not close doors.
> CFD UTI ROGAS
> AGG UTI ROGAS
> AICPM UTI ROGAS Why not, moreover we have granted sponsorship to
> other Legios too.
> TLF ABSTINEO
> MOG UTI ROGAS. It's been said that an all-female legion is not
> historically authentic, and may cause some of our other legions to
> object. However, we already have female Senators and Propraetors. We
> made the decision a long time ago that equality and nondiscrimination
> are more important than complete historical accuracy. These people want
> to participate, want to ally themselves with Nova Roma; let us not turn
> them away.
> LSA UTI ROGAS. I understand, and to some extent share, the
> misgivings that have been stated. However, I do not think that because
> women did not (to our knowledge) fight in the legions of Roma Antiqva,
> we should try to discourage the interest of modern women in
> participating in reconstructionist activities according to their choice.
> The gender biases of Roma Antiqva are among those traditions that we
> have specifically rejected in Nova Roma.
> GTTC NEGAT - I am all for the Sponsership of Legions but with new
> information in the middle of the voting session I think we should look a
> little more carefully at this proposal before making any committments.
> FVG NEGAT (no). While I do not believe the chosen level of
> authenticity for the unit is a disqualifying factor per se, the group in
> question seems to be still in the early stages of formation (for
> example, in their application they state they don't as of yet have any
> arms or armor, a pretty basic requirement for a reenactment legio). I
> suggest that the legio be given time to become established and get a
> firm foundation for itself, at which time it should be encouraged to
> re-apply for sponsorship.
>
> Valete
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Election day in Roma
From:	"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@-------->
Date:	Tue, 3 Apr 2001 22:15:20 -0500

>From one Roman to another Roman, I enjoyed your observation very much!

QS

----- Original Message -----
From: <britil@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 7:18 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Election day in Roma

> Yes it has been a great day for the election. There has been heated
> debate and cantor amongest the people of Roma. I can just see a crowd
> gathered in a square talking about the current election. I can see
> anticipation in the faces of each speaker. As the hussel and bussel
> of daily Roman life carries on as they speak. Some other stopping by
> to say their thoughts on the matter. There is one thing that truly is
> great about all this and that is even if there is some disagreement
> on issues there is one common bound each have and that is they are
> Roman. No matter which side they my chose or which canidate they
> prefer each is still Roman. Remember this most of all no matter what
> Rome first.
>
> Marcus Flavius
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: candidate for tribunus plebis
From:	octavianuslucius@--------
Date:	Wed, 04 Apr 2001 04:17:58 -0000

Salve Marcus Sentius Claudius

Thanks a lot Marce. I do not know if you know I am also a propraetor
(of provincia Argentina), but unlike my opponent, I do not hold any
office at the central administration yet. I hope I will :-).
Vale bene

Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Candidate for the position of Tribunus plebis
Propraetor of provincia Argentina

--- In novaroma@--------, "Mark A Bird" <mark_a_bird@r...> wrote:
> I will vote for you Lucius Pompeius Octavianus, due to the conflict
of
> interest that has been raised previously. I am sure both of you
would
> do a good job though.
>
> Marcus Sentius Claudius
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: octav--------sluc---------------- [ma--------:octav--------sluc----------------]
> Sent: Wednesday, 4 April 2001 9:56 Am
> To: novaroma@--------
> Subject: [novaroma] candidate for tribunus plebis
>
>
> Salvete omnes quirites plebeii.
>
> After seeing an overwhelming number of posts posted by my opponent,
I
> would like to remind you that we are two candidates.
> Let's the best win.
>
> Valete bene et habete fortunam bonam
>
> Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
> Candidate for tribunus plebis
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
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Subject:	[novaroma] The Oath of the Propraetor of Thule
From:	Christer Edling <tjalens.h@-------->
Date:	Wed, 4 Apr 2001 11:14:20 +0200

I, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus (Christer Edling) do hereby solemnly swear to
uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of
the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus (Christer
Edling) swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public
dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus (Christer Edling) swear to uphold and defend
the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to
act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus (Christer Edling) swear to protect and defend
the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus (Christer Edling) further swear to fulfill the
obligations and responsibilities of the office of Propraetor of Thule to
the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and
Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the
position of Propraetor of Thule and all the rights, privileges, obligations
and responsibilities attendant thereto.

Vale

Christer Edling
alias
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
SHAMALI SALUKIS
************************************************
CAMELOT ROLEPLAYING WORKSHOP
Robert Andersson & Christer Edling
************************************************
IF GAMES - If reality was different!
Markus Sundbom & Christer Edling
************************************************
MAIN E-MAIL ADDRESS: tjalens.h@--------
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80


Subject:	[novaroma] Salvete Omnes!
From:	Christer Edling <tjalens.h@-------->
Date:	Wed, 4 Apr 2001 13:40:03 +0200

Salvete Omnes!

I address You as your new Propraetor of Provincia Thule. I was appointed
yesterday (Tue, 03 Apr 2001) by the Senate to become the new Propraetor
(Govenor) of Thule. At the moment I have presented a few documents to the
present and former Consuls and present Praetors to give me advise about how
to handle two proposed edictas 1. "Approved Regula (Charter) for the
Administration of Thule" and 2. "Approved Plan for Activities for the
organization of Thule for 2574 - 2576". I have the intension to publish the
Edictas as proposals on the ThuleNovaRoma List on Sunday 8th April so that
all cives can give me advise about these dokuments personally. All cives
in Thule are welcome to come with more proposals and ideas. The period of
discussion is over the 15th of April on which date I, Caeso Fabius
Quintilianus, the Propraetor Thules, will include changes and sanction and
publish these Edictas.

My haste in getting ready to govern Thule is founded on the fact that I
think the citizens of Thule after years of passivity long for and have the
right to expect ACTION from their Propraetor. Still I want these my
foundamental edictas to be firmly established among the cives in Thule. I
hope to have made my first appointments of legati and scribae (with
different titles) before the 1st of May.

With hope for You points of view as soon as the proposed Edictas are published

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, Propraetor Thules

Vale

Christer Edling
alias
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
SHAMALI SALUKIS
************************************************
CAMELOT ROLEPLAYING WORKSHOP
Robert Andersson & Christer Edling
************************************************
IF GAMES - If reality was different!
Markus Sundbom & Christer Edling
************************************************
MAIN E-MAIL ADDRESS: tjalens.h@--------
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[novaroma] ATTN (Religio Romana): pridie Nonas Aprilias (April 4)
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <amg@-------->
Date:	Wed, 4 Apr 2001 13:19:29 +0100

Salvete omnes

This is one of the dies comitiales (C), when committees of citizens could
vote on political or criminal matters.

This was the first day of the Megalesia, or the Great Games, which were
celebrated for seven days in honor of Cybele, the Great Mother goddess or
Mater Magna. Differently from the festivals of March, more dedicated to
Attis, the Megalesia were considered a national celebration, for Cybele
saved Rome!
In 205 BC, after a rain of stones and the fact that the 2nd Carthaginian war
had no end with Hannibal still in Italy, a consultation of the Sibylline
Oracles demands the "Mother of Ida" to be brought to Rome from mount
Pessinus in Phrygia, if the war is to be won. As a coincidence, an ambassy
returns from Delphi with the promise of victory. An ambassy of magistrates
is then constituted, departing to Asia with five "quinqueremes" ships.
Stopping at Delphy, the Pythia tells them that once arrived at home, the
Mother is to be received by be best man in the world ("vir optimus"). P.
Scipio Nasica is chosen by the senate. Together with the senators and
members of the "ordo equester", he receives Cybele at the port of Ostia.
During the arrival, Cybele performs Her first miracle. At the entrance of
the Tiber, the ship that carries the black stone of Cybele refuses to move
despite all efforts to pull the cables. Claudia Quinta, a beautiful matron
whose virtue was doubted raises her hands to the sky an says:
"They deny my chastity... But if I'm innocent, You Who are chaste, You will
obey to my chaste hands!"
And the ship moved...

As already referred in a past religious note, the black stone was enclosed
within an idol of silver. On April 4th, 204 BC, the idol was deposed at the
temple of Victory. Cybele had Her temple at the Palatine Hill finished and
dedicated on April 10th, 191 BC. That's why the Megalesia last from April
4th to April 10th.

Theatrical games before the temple of Cybele are the main events (many
commedies of Terence were performed at the Megalesia). Chariot races take
place in the last day.

Valete bene in Pace Deorum
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex


Subject:	[novaroma] Congratulations
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Wed, 4 Apr 2001 09:40:02 -0400

Salvete omnes

Apologies for not doing this sooner, but it's been One Of Those Weeks. :-)

Congratulations to our new governors, Pontius Sejanus Marius (America
Austroccidentalis), Marcus Arcadius Pius (Australia), and Caeso Fabius
Quintilianus (Thule). I am certain you all will do splendid jobs; our
provincial governors are vital to our future growth and prosperity.

Congratulations also to P. Gramatinicus Albinus for his achievements in the
Texas State Junior Classical League. Very, very well done and I hope you'll
keep us apprised of your progress in the Nationals! (I would offer to help
with your garb, but I'm lucky if I can get my own toga on without strangling
myself...)

Next year in the Forum!

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org


Subject:	[novaroma] Oath of Office
From:	V_Praetoria@--------
Date:	Wed, 04 Apr 2001 14:43:09 -0000

I, Pontius Sejanus Marius (John Sames) do hereby solemnly swear to
uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best
interests of
the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Pontius Sejanus Marius (John
Sames) swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public
dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private
life.

I, Pontius Sejanus Marius(John Sames) swear to uphold and defend
the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never
to
act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Pontius Sejanus Marius (John Sames) swear to protect and defend
the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Pontius Sejanus Marius (John Sames) further swear to fulfill the
obligations and responsibilities of the office of Propraetor of
America Austroccidentalis to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the
Gods and
Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I
accept the
position of Propraetor of America Austroccidentalis and all the
rights, privileges, obligations
and responsibilities attendant thereto.

Vale

Pontius Sejanus Marius
John Sames
America Austroccidentalis


Subject:	[novaroma] Thanks to Cybele and the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and the Senate of Nova Roma!
From:	Christer Edling <tjalens.h@-------->
Date:	Wed, 4 Apr 2001 16:08:16 +0200

Ave Iuppiter Optimus Maximus and Cybele, Gods and Goddesses of the Roman
people and Conscript Fathers!

I want to bring my thanks to Iuppiter Optimus Maximus, all other Gods and
Goddesses of the Roman people and especially Cybele, the Great Mother
goddess or Mater Magna on her festival, the Megalesia. I am also happy to
thank the Senate of Nova Roma on this day of national celebration for their
appointment of me as Propraetor of Thule! I am glad to start my work as a
Propraetor of Thule on this day when the feast celebrating that Cybele
saved Rome begins!

The Megalesia that last from April 4th to April 10th will be celebrated for
the full period here in my home as a homage to Nova Roma, the People and
the Senate!

Please accept my humble thanks

Vale

Christer Edling
alias
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
SHAMALI SALUKIS
************************************************
CAMELOT ROLEPLAYING WORKSHOP
Robert Andersson & Christer Edling
************************************************
IF GAMES - If reality was different!
Markus Sundbom & Christer Edling
************************************************
MAIN E-MAIL ADDRESS: tjalens.h@--------
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80


Subject:	[novaroma] Gratias Tibi Ago
From:	V_Praetoria@--------
Date:	Wed, 04 Apr 2001 15:02:30 -0000

It is an honor for me and a great day for the cives of America
Austroccidentalis, that I have been elected the new Propraetor. I
know that many Senators were worried. But my experience and my
determination are well founded. I will work hard to make my
provinciae great.

I would like to thank a few people for there support and
encouragement.

First, I would like to thank the founders of Nova Roma, for without
them, where would we all be today. Second, I would like to thank the
Senate, for overlooking the fact that I did not satisfy the
requirements for my post. Third, I would like to thank the Senators
who believed in me, and gave me there support.

And lastly, but most of all, I want to thank Flavius Vedius
Germanicus, his support and encouragement made this possible.

So it is with great pride, that I accept my charge as the new
Propraetor of America Austroccidentalis.

Pontius Sejanus Marius


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Thanks to Cybele and the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and the Senate of Nova Roma!
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <amg@-------->
Date:	Wed, 4 Apr 2001 16:15:24 +0100

Salve Caeso Fabi Quintiliane

Congratulations for your new position. Your piety will not fail you. May the
Penates Publici and all other Dii Romani protect you and guide you in your
endeavours for the welfare of the citizens of Thule. May the May Iuppiter
Thulius (Odin) and the Genii Loci Thuli also protect you and the citizens of
your provincia.

Today I'm very happy and the fact is also related to your provincia. I have
just received the news that my paper was accepted in a conference in Finland
and so I will be to Finland in Mensis Sextilis (August) to present it.
Gratias ago deis propiciis Iove Thulio et aliis Geniis Locis Thuli pro
acceptatione scripti mei.

Vale bene in pace deorum
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Senator et Pontifex


Subject:	[novaroma] Congratulations!
From:	Christer Edling <tjalens.h@-------->
Date:	Wed, 4 Apr 2001 18:11:18 +0200

Salvete omnes

Congratulations to my new collegae, the governors, Pontius Sejanus Marius,
Govenor of America
Austroccidentalis and Marcus Arcadius Pius, Govenor of Australia!

I am sure that You both will do a splendid job in your respective
Provincia! I hope that we can cooperate in the future and invite You to
contact me if You think that I can be of use in some way. I also hope that
I am welcome to do the same!

Vale

Christer Edling
alias
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
SHAMALI SALUKIS
************************************************
CAMELOT ROLEPLAYING WORKSHOP
Robert Andersson & Christer Edling
************************************************
IF GAMES - If reality was different!
Markus Sundbom & Christer Edling
************************************************
MAIN E-MAIL ADDRESS: tjalens.h@--------
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80


Subject:	[novaroma] Congratulations :)
From:	trog99@--------
Date:	Wed, 04 Apr 2001 16:18:50 -0000

Salvete Nova Romani:

To the new Propraetors, Marcus Arcadius Pius, Caeso Fabius
Quintilianus and Pontius Sejanus Marius, I extend my congratulations
and wish you the very best as you undertake your duties.

I would also like to heartily congratulate our Pontiff, Antonius
Grilus Graecus on his excellent progress with his paper. I am sure
presenting at the conference in Finland will be a very enjoyable and
educational experience.

Buona Fortuna,
Pompeia Cornelia


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Congratulations :)
From:	Christer Edling <tjalens.h@-------->
Date:	Wed, 4 Apr 2001 19:07:55 +0200

>Salvete Nova Romani:
>
>To the new Propraetors, Marcus Arcadius Pius, Caeso Fabius
>Quintilianus and Pontius Sejanus Marius, I extend my congratulations
>and wish you the very best as you undertake your duties.
>
>I would also like to heartily congratulate our Pontiff, Antonius
>Grilus Graecus on his excellent progress with his paper. I am sure
>presenting at the conference in Finland will be a very enjoyable and
>educational experience.
>
>Buona Fortuna,
>Pompeia Cornelia

Salve Honorable Pompeia Cornelia!

Thank You for your congratulations! I assure You that I will do my best in
my new position! I DO want to make You and all the generous people who have
congratulateted me proud!

Vale

Christer Edling
alias
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
SHAMALI SALUKIS
************************************************
CAMELOT ROLEPLAYING WORKSHOP
Robert Andersson & Christer Edling
************************************************
IF GAMES - If reality was different!
Markus Sundbom & Christer Edling
************************************************
MAIN E-MAIL ADDRESS: tjalens.h@--------
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Thanks to Cybele and the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and the Senate of Nova Roma!
From:	Christer Edling <tjalens.h@-------->
Date:	Wed, 4 Apr 2001 19:05:03 +0200

>Salve Caeso Fabi Quintiliane
>
>Congratulations for your new position. Your piety will not fail you. May the
>Penates Publici and all other Dii Romani protect you and guide you in your
>endeavours for the welfare of the citizens of Thule. May the May Iuppiter
>Thulius (Odin) and the Genii Loci Thuli also protect you and the citizens of
>your provincia.
>
>Today I'm very happy and the fact is also related to your provincia. I have
>just received the news that my paper was accepted in a conference in Finland
>and so I will be to Finland in Mensis Sextilis (August) to present it.
>Gratias ago deis propiciis Iove Thulio et aliis Geniis Locis Thuli pro
>acceptatione scripti mei.
>
>Vale bene in pace deorum
>Antonius Gryllus Graecus
>Senator et Pontifex

Salve Illustrus Senator, Propraetor and Pontfex Antonius Gryllus Graecus!

Thank You for your congratulations! I am sure that your wishes for the
Fortuna and prosperity of my administration of Thule and the whole
Provincia of Thule will succeed!

I want to congratulate You on the success of your paper! What is your paper
about and where in Finland will You go? Now a' days it isn't easy to go
between Finland and Sweden, but I think that we maybe can arrange a meeting
between You and some representative of Thule during your stay in our
beautiful eastern Regio. Keep in touch!

Vale

Christer Edling
alias
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
SHAMALI SALUKIS
************************************************
CAMELOT ROLEPLAYING WORKSHOP
Robert Andersson & Christer Edling
************************************************
IF GAMES - If reality was different!
Markus Sundbom & Christer Edling
************************************************
MAIN E-MAIL ADDRESS: tjalens.h@--------
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80


Subject:	[novaroma] Futue insulas, screw the islands
From:	Amulius Equitius <Maximus@-------->
Date:	Wed, 04 Apr 2001 14:24:02 -0500

Salvete omnibus,
I completely agree with you. I believed from
the begining that the island idea was bad. We need
to be on main land and your idea just might work.
Vale,
Am. Equitius Germanicus

"Salus populi suprema est lex."
"The welfare of the people is the supreme
law." -- Roman proverb

----- Original Message -----
>From : margali <margali@-------->
Sent : Sun, 01 Apr 2001 13:58:12 -0400
To : novaroma@--------
Subject : Re: [novaroma] The Island idea..

><html><body>
<tt>
I knocked the idea around with my husband for a
whilewhile puttering 
around the house yesterday. 
 
Whereas there are a number of islands up for sale,
whyare they up for 
sale and or unpopulated. 
Climate is a major consideration. Not just
thetemperature range 
important, or fresh water supply, but weather
patterns.Many islands are 
unpopulated because major storm systems romp
acrossthem with great 
frequency. I personally like my land to stay put,
andnot be subject to 
periodic flooding and storm surge. I� may be
funnythat way, ;-). 
 
Many countries really don't like divesting
themselvesof property, 
especially since we want to improve on it at our
ownexpense. If I pay 
to develop my� 1 square mile of farm, I bloodywell
want to keep it. 
Have you seen the news reports of this past winter
andthe problems that 
retired americans had in Mexico? The government
soldthem the land and 
then repossessed it once it had been developed.
[moreon this later.] 
Not to mention, what is the political situation in
thecountry that owns 
the land to start with? 
 
Health/Welfare considerations. Tahiti does sound
nice,especially after 
the snow in the past month. My response is:
HansensDisease [leprosy], 
Elephantitis, Malaria, Parisitic Worms,
Bacteriologicalcontamination, 
Foot Rot and other festive fungi. Lack of access
tomedical care in the 
short term. [I am diabetic and take meds. I doubt I
amthe only one.] 
 
My husband came up with a fairly good although
totallyodd suggestion. 
 
The lower half of baja California. 
 
Yep, sun, dessert, sand, no population other than
beachbums and 
transient fishermen. Sun. No animals or plants.
Nopopulation. Sun. No 
water unless you carry it in yourself. [well, there
aredolphins in the 
pacific and the gulf of california ;-) ] 
 
One point at a time. 
 
No population, water, plants or animals. 
We could probably get it from Mexico cheap. [more
onthe mexican 
political situation later.] 
 
No water. 
Reverse osmosis water filtration. It is
fairlyreasonable in cost and 
the minerals extracted can be used or sold -
salt,potassium, manganese, 
magnesium, gold, calcium. With water comes plants
andanimals, and 
population. 
 
Empty, no towns or population. 
The ability to invent ourselves according to
ourprincipals. 
With no extant infrastructure, we don't have
toretrofit anything. We 
can have sewage and garbage digesters to
generatemethane and create 
compost. We can recycle the non-organics from the
startwithout the 
hang-up of dealing with an entrenched
industrialbase. 
We can generate our electricity from the
generatedmethane, and 
implement solar collection and other forms rather
thandepend on fossil 
fuels. 
We can design our communities to be independent
fromothers. Each 
community can use its own sewage and garbage
generatedmethane to 
provide its own power, reducing the need for
generatingmassive amounts 
of electricity to allow for loss in the power
linesneeded to move it 
from its local generation area. All the utilities
[power, 
communications, water and sewage] being
centrallyorganized for each 
community means less money being spent on conduits
ofvarious sorts 
running through unpopulated areas. As
populationspreads, then planned 
expansion can take place. 
 
Gross National Product. 
Sun, sand, water. We can have a planned fishing
port onthe pacific 
ocean side, supplying repair facilities,
chandleringand refit parts, 
and fuels to the fishermen. We can have a
smallprocessing plant to 
service our own seafood needs [flash freezing,
salting,drying and 
canning as appropriate. Maybe a
garum 'microbrewery']If somebody wants 
to go into business running a fishing vacation
charter,so much the 
better. I understand that there is some
incrediblesport fishing in that 
area. We can have a small planned resort port on
thegulf of california 
side, catering to the sun and sand set, and if
somebodywants to run a 
vacation sail/motor charter company, that would
begood. Think of a club 
med sort of resort based on the imperial palace
oncapri! Roman baths, 
relaxing on a beach, servants running for drinks
andtowels, a health 
club with a few different massage styles [swedish,
rolfand whatever] 
and personal trainers. Gourmet foods and a night
club.We could offer 
offshore banking and safety deposit boxes and
computerstorage. We could 
provide reproductions of glass, ceramics, fabric
andmetal for museums 
and living history centers as well as selling
viacatalog and online 
stores. 
 
>>>>>> 
When I think about it, life without George Bush
soundsnice. I for one 
would 
move to the island on these conditions. A.)
Recyclingis mandatory, B.) 
Animal Testing is banned, C.) The use of fur is
banned,D.) A list 
endangered 
species is compiled (if discovered any, E.) A
smallportion of the 
island is 
set aside for an animal estuary, and finally
Dolphinsare near the 
island 
:-). Then me and the critters would take off. I
know Ihave to be weird 
at 
all times. 
 
 
Aeternia 
>>>>>>> 
The hard stuff. 
Civil security. 
How do we keep independence once we get it? I know
if Iimprove my 1 
square acre latifundia I bloody well want to keepit!
 
Rob suggested a couple of things. If we join NAFTA
anda few other of 
the pan american organizations, it will get
usinternational political 
position. If we are recognized, we have a better
chanceof making 
treaties with a larger country for protection in
caseof aggressive 
neighbors. This would probably work best at
keepingMexico honest. We 
could quite possibly get US help if we work the
druginterdiction angle. 
 
Universal military service in exchange for
politicalfranchise. If you 
don't serve, you don't vote. If you prefernon-
violence, you can shuffle 
paperwork. If you are physically impaired, you can
dosomething that 
your infirmity allows for. I can shuffle papers
withthe best of them, 
my shooting days are well over ;-( At the age of 39
andmajor impairment 
of my ability to move, I would still put in 3 years
ofservice for the 
right to vote. If I can do it, then everybody
should bewilling to do 
it. If you are Helen Keller, then you can 'count
thefuzz on 
caterpillars by touch' to quote Robert Heinlein. 
 
We have to get real. All the bunny hugging is
great,but personal 
freedom is very important to me. 
 
I happen to be a carnivore, and I want to eat meat.
Ilike lamb, and if 
I raise the buggers, I will by damned eat the
littlesods. I like 
leather and fur. If I feel like raising a batch of
minkor sable, or 
squirrel to turn into a nice toasty jacket, then I
willdo so. I do not 
believe in hunted furs, other than from food
animalslike moose, elk , 
deer, bear, coon and the like. If my husband shoots
it,we eat it. I 
want the right to do so. I want the right to bring
intoNR the results 
of what ever we legally hunt for. 
 
I also don't want sexuality legislated. If I want
to begay, or a 
prostitute or have an abortion, then I want to be
ableto control my own 
destiny. With regulations on health control
issues,prostitution works 
in many european countries. Taxable income! 
 
Many shamanistic religions use mind altering
substancessuch as alcohol, 
peyote, psylocybin and marijuana as sacraments.
While Idon't want the 
kids on the street to just be able to get
thesewilly-nilly, I fell that 
if we legalized the access of alcohol, tobacco
andthese sacramental 
substances to government controlled production
anddistribution centers 
to be sold only to citizens of legal majority it
wouldbe the best and 
most equitable solution. Many US states and
countriescontrol the access 
to alcohol and tobacco by selling them only at
staterun facilities in 
this manner, and it seems to work well.
Animalsacrifice. Well, since we 
are on the subject of religion, in addition to
thestate religion, 
people have expressed interest in various other
paganreligions as well 
and we do have to consider religious matters. 
 
knock this around ;-) 
margali 
Hyapatia Asinia 
 
</tt>

 



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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Futue insulas, screw the islands
From:	margali <margali@-------->
Date:	Wed, 04 Apr 2001 16:24:40 -0400

Not that the island is a bad idea, it is just that an island has some
inherent weather and livability problems that have to bee addressed very
carefully.

Baja is fairly isolated, weatherwise. The reason there is no water is
mainly because it doesn't rain. Weather patterns go above and below it,
and it doesn't tend to get hit by the storms.

Almost every Caribbean island has been hit by tropical storms and
hurricanes within my lifetime. Watch the weather channel when they do
the storm tracking and see where the storms go. If you choose a northern
atlantic island, you still get the storms, and you get cold weather. If
you go for a northern pacific island, you still get the storms, but the
prevailing water currents come from the arctic and sweep down the coast,
cold and only moderate amounts of rain. In the northern Atlantic, the
prevailing currents are coming up from the south and carry the storm
systems along with them. Comprende 'Storm of the Century'?

Micronesia and Polynesia, Malaysia and the various islands in the south
China Sea are pirate havens. I have the 1999 report on maritime piracy
website if you want to go there and research I will be happy to send it
along separately.

Certainly, lets look at islands, but a good sized island with fresh
water, ideal climate and good colonization possibilities may be well out
of our price range.

Speaking of price range, how are we going to finance our little
endeavor?
margali
Hyapatia Asinia
--

MarilynTraber@--------
HTTP://WWW.FictionForest.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Quote Starts Here:
I believed from
the beginning that the island idea was bad. We need
to be on main land and your idea just might work.


Subject:	[novaroma] Communities
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Wed, 4 Apr 2001 16:58:23 -0400

Flavius Vedius Germanicus novaromanis S.P.D.

There has been a lot of talk lately about various aspects of the
community-building mission of Nova Roma. I'm not referring to our on-line
community, which is certainly vibrant and constantly growing, but to Nova
Roman communities in the real world. I would like to touch on some aspects
of this, as it is indeed central to the entire concept of Nova Roma.

I would break the various possible Nova Roman communities into five basic
types.

I) Local chapters
II) Independent groups who join NR
III) "Living history" communities
IV) Non-sovereign intentional communities
V) Sovereign territory

Each of these different sorts of community have their own issues, problems,
and benefits. I will speak about each of these in turn, but bear in mind
that none of these are mutually exclusive; we can (and eventually I am sure
will) pursue all of these avenues.

I. Local chapters

I spoke extensively about the question of local chapters a few months ago,
and indeed here in New Jersey we have a prototype of such a chapter already
ramping up (Civitas Boreocaesarium). In addition, I know that similar
efforts are at least being discussed in Germania, Thule, and one or two
provincia here in the United States.

Local chapters would consist of citizens who live within a given geographic
area, who get together on a regular basis to hold events, sponsor
activities, recruit new citizens, study Roman arts and sciences, etc. etc.
etc. They could be in a given urban area, a larger suburban/rural area, or
even on a single college campus. Naturally informal groups of cives can
already do these sorts of things, but the local chapter would be for those
people who wanted to do such on a regular basis, with some sort of structure
and official support.

I envision a two-tier system for local chapters. The first tier would be for
chapters just starting out, which I call the "civitas". It would be very
dependent on the provincial governor for support, organization, etc. and
would stay in this level for at least a year while it starts to hold regular
events, get a feel for the social dynamics of the group (including how much
time members have to commit), etc. Once a certain threshold was reached (X
number of events in a year, Y number of cives willing to commit to the
chapter, etc.) it could petition the governor to be promoted to the next
tier, which I call the "municipium".

The municipium would have a much greater degree of independence from the
provincial governor (although never completely cut loose from the provincial
administration). It would elect its own council and magistrates (duumviri,
aediles, quaestores, etc.), be allowed to maintain its own bank account,
hold its own events without prior approval, etc.

I can foresee such local chapters springing up all over the place, affording
cives the opportunity for regular face-to-face interaction, without
necessarily requiring a huge commitment (unless one wanted to).

II. Independent groups who join NR

There do exist reenactor and other Roman-oriented groups on a purely local
level. These are folks who already hold their own events, have a workable
organization, etc. While the wholesale integration of reenactor legions is
something a bit outside of the scope of this post, some other groups (for
example the Roman Historical Society in the southwest US and two or three
groups in Britain and central Europe) could very well decide that it was in
their best interests to merge with Nova Roma.

However, it should be realized that the internal organization of such groups
is probably unlikely to mesh with any scheme for local chapters Nova Roma
might adopt. In such cases, it is necessary for us to be flexible in our
approach to such groups. I would suggest that each such group could be dealt
with on a case-by-case basis, with the details of the integration specified
in an individual "treaty" with each one (as was often done in Italy during
the Roman consolidation of the penninsula). Such integrated groups should be
distinguished from "ordinary" local chapters by being designated xxx.

III. "Living History" communities

I don't know the names of any living history sites in Europe, but I know
they must exist. Here in the United States, Colonial Williamsburg is perhaps
the best-known, but there are many, many others (Old Sturbridge Village in
MA and Waterloo Village in NJ, for example). A living history community is a
tourist attraction; a place where people can come to immerse themselves in a
bygone era (in our case, such would obviously be ancient Rome). It can also
serve as an important center for scholarly activity and the newly-emerging
field of "experimental archaeology", possibly in connection with a
university.

Living history communities can be seasonal or year-round, depending on the
locale. The inhabitants in their off-hours would live in the modern world
(usually in dormatories or local motels), and the larger ones are,
naturally, staffed with people from the surrounding area. I don't know of
any living history community in which the staff live according to their
period 24 hours a day, and I doubt many of us here would want to, either. (I
like my microwave and television, thanks very much.)

Such a project could very well be done in connection with another type of
community; say, a colonae that grows to such a size that it feels it can
pull off such a complex and daunting venture. Such living history
communities are probably better considered as buisiness ventures in which
other community projects could participate, but I thought I would include
them here because they had been brought up in this context.

(As a side note, a sort of Roman-themed version of "Medieval Times" (a chain
of restaurants with a medieval theme that have live jousts during dinner)
would probably fall into this category, but existing on a much smaller scale
and probably with a much lower educational value. Still, I know _I_ always
think about such a thing every time I go to Medieval Times!)

IV. Non-sovereign intentional communities

Intentional communities are, in essence, groups of people who decide that
because of something they have in common (religion, political ideology, a
desire to be eco-friendly, etc.) to live together. This can take many forms;
some ic's are full-fledged communes, with everyone living in the same
building sharing property and work. Some are compounds out in the wilderness
where each family has their own home, but the community is tightly knit
around their common theme. Some are simply formed when people intentionally
buy houses in the same neighborhood or town, so they can be close to folks
with whom they share something in common, but in a situation where not
everyone is a member of their sub-community.

That last category of ic actually seems feasible today. Perhaps in a few
years interested groups of people might look into buying their own land for
purposes of forming a Nova Roma-only community (which I would term colonae),
probably with the assistance of the central government (more on that below).
However, such a community would still solidly and explicitly belong to
whatever macronation it happened to be in; the last thing we need are
"crank" letters to the State department stating that twelve people in Maine
have seceeded from the US. :-)

More information on ic's can be found at http://www.ic.org.

V. Sovereign Territory

Ah, now here's the Grand Prize. For those who are seriously interested in
this aspect of Nova Roma's mission, I cannot recommend highly enough the
book "How To Start Your Own Country" by Erwin Strauss
(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1893626156/novaroma00A). It covers
both the history of new-country projects and some of the practical aspects
of doing so today.

I've been following the "island" (and subsequent) discussion with (obvious)
great interest. However, I must stress that although discussing the minutae
is of course the fun part (and please do go on doing so!), it is also
completely premature. I mean, it's great to start pricing out islands, or
talking about what sort of water reclamation to use in southern Baja
California, but what good is it when we have $50 in the Land Fund? If we're
going to be talking about this seriously, let's talk about it in practical
terms. We should be discussing things like:

1) Money. Any project involving land (sovereign or not) is going to take
money. Probably lots of it. My quaestor is at this moment putting together
our Development Plan, which specifically includes the Land Fund and
beginning the process of seeking grants from corporations and other
organizations that issue such. We should be thinking about enterprises that
could generate a lot of money, which could then be turned around and
invested. It is also entirely possible that there are businesses which would
specifically invest in a (viable) new-country project in order to have an
economic stake in it.

2) Territory. Not where, so much as how. Most sovereign nations are going to
be naturally somewhat reticent to part with any real estate on any sort of
permanent, sovereign basis. A few possibilities (some more feasible and/or
less humorous than others) include:

* Outright purchase of sovereignty
* Going to a politically unstable locale and bribing a corrupt official
* Offering economic development assistance to a struggling country in
return for a few sovereign acres ("We'll dredge that port in the capitol if
you give us 108 acres on the coast, Your Excellency...")
* Buying an abandoned oil-drilling derreck
* Getting a Pacific flyspeck nation to cede us an uninhabited island
* Shaming the Italian government into giving us the same deal the Vatican
has
* Nuclear blackmail :-)
* Creating artificial islands. (It may seem like a pie-in-the-sky dream,
but such has been seriously discussed in other circles before, and while
there are definitely technical hurdles to be overcome, it is certainly
within the realm of possibility for a well-funded and well-organized
organization. For a detailed analysis of some of the legal and technical
ramifications, see http://www.luf.org/artisle.html.)

And of course, once the actual land is obtained and sovereignty somehow
finegeled, the actual process of building the nation can begin.
Infrastructure, housing, roads, schools, stores, communications, waste and
water management, power, etc. etc. etc.

Nova Roma is, and always has been, completely serious about one day getting
territory and establishing macronational sovereignty over it. But in order
to achieve that goal, we will need respectibility (which can be gained
through working with the academic community and in a myriad of other
real-world projects), money (as discussed above), and patience. This is not
something that's going to happen tomorrow, or five years from now. Fifteen
or twenty years might be more realistic. It is a worthy goal, and one we
should as a group be pursuing.

But leading up to sovereignty, and in addition to it, we have many
opportunities to form real-world communities, and I believe we have (or
will) enough talent, enthusiasm, and energy to think about pursuing them
all.

Next year in the Forum!

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org


Subject:	[novaroma] Oath of Office
From:	"Daniel Place" <Danat2000@-------->
Date:	Thu, 5 Apr 2001 08:19:46 +0930

I, Marcus Arcadius Pius (Daniel Place), do hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Marcus Arcadius Pius (Daniel Place) swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Marcus Arcadius Pius (Daniel Place), swear to uphold and defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Marcus Arcadius Pius (Daniel Place) swear to protect and defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Marcus Arcadius Pius (Daniel Place) further swear to fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the office of Propraetor of Australia/Oceania to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the position of Propraetor of Australia/Oceania and all the rights, privileges, obligations and responsibilities attendant thereto.

Vale

Marcus Arcadius Pius

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Communities
From:	"Lucius Mauricius Procopious" <procopious@-------->
Date:	Wed, 4 Apr 2001 16:24:55 -0700

Salvete Omnes,
Wow! Great delineation of the forms of community! The book review had a link
in one of the readers reviews to a site http://go.to/footnotestohistory that
was very interesting. The reader thought it contained much information
similar to the How to build a Country book. Regardless of that opinion it is
a great site.

Next year in the Forum!
{Repeated with permission :) I highly recommend it's use to you all. }

Lucius Mauricius Procopious
Propraetor America Boreoccidentalis
(This is an unofficial post for which I assume full responsibility)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
procopious@--------
ICQ# 83516618
*America Boreoccidentalis Mail List
http://www.egroups.com/group/AmBor_Waves
* The Gens Mauricia
http://www.geocities.com/procopious

"Indeed, it is not by the plans of men, but by the hand of God that the
affairs of men are directed; and this men call Fate, not knowing the reason
for what things they see occur; and what seems to be without cause is easy
to call the accident of chance. Still, this is a matter every mortal will
decide for himself according to his taste."
-Procopius of Caesarea (in Palestine) [born c.490/507- died c.560s]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 1:58 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Communities

> Flavius Vedius Germanicus novaromanis S.P.D.
>
> There has been a lot of talk lately about various aspects of the
> community-building mission of Nova Roma. I'm not referring to our on-line
> community, which is certainly vibrant and constantly growing, but to Nova
> Roman communities in the real world. I would like to touch on some aspects
> of this, as it is indeed central to the entire concept of Nova Roma.
>
> I would break the various possible Nova Roman communities into five basic
> types.
>
> I) Local chapters
> II) Independent groups who join NR
> III) "Living history" communities
> IV) Non-sovereign intentional communities
> V) Sovereign territory
>
> Each of these different sorts of community have their own issues,
problems,
> and benefits. I will speak about each of these in turn, but bear in mind
> that none of these are mutually exclusive; we can (and eventually I am
sure
> will) pursue all of these avenues.
>
> I. Local chapters
>
> I spoke extensively about the question of local chapters a few months ago,
> and indeed here in New Jersey we have a prototype of such a chapter
already
> ramping up (Civitas Boreocaesarium). In addition, I know that similar
> efforts are at least being discussed in Germania, Thule, and one or two
> provincia here in the United States.
>
> Local chapters would consist of citizens who live within a given
geographic
> area, who get together on a regular basis to hold events, sponsor
> activities, recruit new citizens, study Roman arts and sciences, etc. etc.
> etc. They could be in a given urban area, a larger suburban/rural area, or
> even on a single college campus. Naturally informal groups of cives can
> already do these sorts of things, but the local chapter would be for those
> people who wanted to do such on a regular basis, with some sort of
structure
> and official support.
>
> I envision a two-tier system for local chapters. The first tier would be
for
> chapters just starting out, which I call the "civitas". It would be very
> dependent on the provincial governor for support, organization, etc. and
> would stay in this level for at least a year while it starts to hold
regular
> events, get a feel for the social dynamics of the group (including how
much
> time members have to commit), etc. Once a certain threshold was reached (X
> number of events in a year, Y number of cives willing to commit to the
> chapter, etc.) it could petition the governor to be promoted to the next
> tier, which I call the "municipium".
>
> The municipium would have a much greater degree of independence from the
> provincial governor (although never completely cut loose from the
provincial
> administration). It would elect its own council and magistrates (duumviri,
> aediles, quaestores, etc.), be allowed to maintain its own bank account,
> hold its own events without prior approval, etc.
>
> I can foresee such local chapters springing up all over the place,
affording
> cives the opportunity for regular face-to-face interaction, without
> necessarily requiring a huge commitment (unless one wanted to).
>
> II. Independent groups who join NR
>
> There do exist reenactor and other Roman-oriented groups on a purely local
> level. These are folks who already hold their own events, have a workable
> organization, etc. While the wholesale integration of reenactor legions is
> something a bit outside of the scope of this post, some other groups (for
> example the Roman Historical Society in the southwest US and two or three
> groups in Britain and central Europe) could very well decide that it was
in
> their best interests to merge with Nova Roma.
>
> However, it should be realized that the internal organization of such
groups
> is probably unlikely to mesh with any scheme for local chapters Nova Roma
> might adopt. In such cases, it is necessary for us to be flexible in our
> approach to such groups. I would suggest that each such group could be
dealt
> with on a case-by-case basis, with the details of the integration
specified
> in an individual "treaty" with each one (as was often done in Italy during
> the Roman consolidation of the penninsula). Such integrated groups should
be
> distinguished from "ordinary" local chapters by being designated xxx.
>
> III. "Living History" communities
>
> I don't know the names of any living history sites in Europe, but I know
> they must exist. Here in the United States, Colonial Williamsburg is
perhaps
> the best-known, but there are many, many others (Old Sturbridge Village in
> MA and Waterloo Village in NJ, for example). A living history community is
a
> tourist attraction; a place where people can come to immerse themselves in
a
> bygone era (in our case, such would obviously be ancient Rome). It can
also
> serve as an important center for scholarly activity and the newly-emerging
> field of "experimental archaeology", possibly in connection with a
> university.
>
> Living history communities can be seasonal or year-round, depending on the
> locale. The inhabitants in their off-hours would live in the modern world
> (usually in dormatories or local motels), and the larger ones are,
> naturally, staffed with people from the surrounding area. I don't know of
> any living history community in which the staff live according to their
> period 24 hours a day, and I doubt many of us here would want to, either.
(I
> like my microwave and television, thanks very much.)
>
> Such a project could very well be done in connection with another type of
> community; say, a colonae that grows to such a size that it feels it can
> pull off such a complex and daunting venture. Such living history
> communities are probably better considered as buisiness ventures in which
> other community projects could participate, but I thought I would include
> them here because they had been brought up in this context.
>
> (As a side note, a sort of Roman-themed version of "Medieval Times" (a
chain
> of restaurants with a medieval theme that have live jousts during dinner)
> would probably fall into this category, but existing on a much smaller
scale
> and probably with a much lower educational value. Still, I know _I_ always
> think about such a thing every time I go to Medieval Times!)
>
> IV. Non-sovereign intentional communities
>
> Intentional communities are, in essence, groups of people who decide that
> because of something they have in common (religion, political ideology, a
> desire to be eco-friendly, etc.) to live together. This can take many
forms;
> some ic's are full-fledged communes, with everyone living in the same
> building sharing property and work. Some are compounds out in the
wilderness
> where each family has their own home, but the community is tightly knit
> around their common theme. Some are simply formed when people
intentionally
> buy houses in the same neighborhood or town, so they can be close to folks
> with whom they share something in common, but in a situation where not
> everyone is a member of their sub-community.
>
> That last category of ic actually seems feasible today. Perhaps in a few
> years interested groups of people might look into buying their own land
for
> purposes of forming a Nova Roma-only community (which I would term
colonae),
> probably with the assistance of the central government (more on that
below).
> However, such a community would still solidly and explicitly belong to
> whatever macronation it happened to be in; the last thing we need are
> "crank" letters to the State department stating that twelve people in
Maine
> have seceeded from the US. :-)
>
> More information on ic's can be found at http://www.ic.org.
>
> V. Sovereign Territory
>
> Ah, now here's the Grand Prize. For those who are seriously interested in
> this aspect of Nova Roma's mission, I cannot recommend highly enough the
> book "How To Start Your Own Country" by Erwin Strauss
> (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1893626156/novaroma00A). It covers
> both the history of new-country projects and some of the practical aspects
> of doing so today.
>
> I've been following the "island" (and subsequent) discussion with
(obvious)
> great interest. However, I must stress that although discussing the
minutae
> is of course the fun part (and please do go on doing so!), it is also
> completely premature. I mean, it's great to start pricing out islands, or
> talking about what sort of water reclamation to use in southern Baja
> California, but what good is it when we have $50 in the Land Fund? If
we're
> going to be talking about this seriously, let's talk about it in practical
> terms. We should be discussing things like:
>
> 1) Money. Any project involving land (sovereign or not) is going to take
> money. Probably lots of it. My quaestor is at this moment putting together
> our Development Plan, which specifically includes the Land Fund and
> beginning the process of seeking grants from corporations and other
> organizations that issue such. We should be thinking about enterprises
that
> could generate a lot of money, which could then be turned around and
> invested. It is also entirely possible that there are businesses which
would
> specifically invest in a (viable) new-country project in order to have an
> economic stake in it.
>
> 2) Territory. Not where, so much as how. Most sovereign nations are going
to
> be naturally somewhat reticent to part with any real estate on any sort of
> permanent, sovereign basis. A few possibilities (some more feasible and/or
> less humorous than others) include:
>
> * Outright purchase of sovereignty
> * Going to a politically unstable locale and bribing a corrupt official
> * Offering economic development assistance to a struggling country in
> return for a few sovereign acres ("We'll dredge that port in the capitol
if
> you give us 108 acres on the coast, Your Excellency...")
> * Buying an abandoned oil-drilling derreck
> * Getting a Pacific flyspeck nation to cede us an uninhabited island
> * Shaming the Italian government into giving us the same deal the
Vatican
> has
> * Nuclear blackmail :-)
> * Creating artificial islands. (It may seem like a pie-in-the-sky dream,
> but such has been seriously discussed in other circles before, and while
> there are definitely technical hurdles to be overcome, it is certainly
> within the realm of possibility for a well-funded and well-organized
> organization. For a detailed analysis of some of the legal and technical
> ramifications, see http://www.luf.org/artisle.html.)
>
> And of course, once the actual land is obtained and sovereignty somehow
> finegeled, the actual process of building the nation can begin.
> Infrastructure, housing, roads, schools, stores, communications, waste and
> water management, power, etc. etc. etc.
>
> Nova Roma is, and always has been, completely serious about one day
getting
> territory and establishing macronational sovereignty over it. But in order
> to achieve that goal, we will need respectibility (which can be gained
> through working with the academic community and in a myriad of other
> real-world projects), money (as discussed above), and patience. This is
not
> something that's going to happen tomorrow, or five years from now. Fifteen
> or twenty years might be more realistic. It is a worthy goal, and one we
> should as a group be pursuing.
>
> But leading up to sovereignty, and in addition to it, we have many
> opportunities to form real-world communities, and I believe we have (or
> will) enough talent, enthusiasm, and energy to think about pursuing them
> all.
>
> Next year in the Forum!
>
> Vale,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> Consul
>
> email: germanicus@--------
> AIM: Flavius Vedius
> www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Communities
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Gnaeus=20Salix=20Astur?= <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Thu, 5 Apr 2001 00:07:53 +0200 (CEST)

Salvete, romani.
Salve, F. Vedius Germanicus, Pater Patriae

--- Flavius Vedius Germanicus
<germanicus@--------> escribi�: > Flavius Vedius
Germanicus novaromanis S.P.D.

> I. Local chapters
>
> I spoke extensively about the question of local
> chapters a few months ago,
> and indeed here in New Jersey we have a prototype of
> such a chapter already
> ramping up (Civitas Boreocaesarium). In addition, I
> know that similar
> efforts are at least being discussed in Germania,
> Thule, and one or two
> provincia here in the United States.
>
> Local chapters would consist of citizens who live
> within a given geographic
> area, who get together on a regular basis to hold
> events, sponsor
> activities, recruit new citizens, study Roman arts
> and sciences, etc. etc.
> etc. They could be in a given urban area, a larger
> suburban/rural area, or
> even on a single college campus. Naturally informal
> groups of cives can
> already do these sorts of things, but the local
> chapter would be for those
> people who wanted to do such on a regular basis,
> with some sort of structure
> and official support.
>
> I envision a two-tier system for local chapters. The
> first tier would be for
> chapters just starting out, which I call the
> "civitas". It would be very
> dependent on the provincial governor for support,
> organization, etc. and
> would stay in this level for at least a year while
> it starts to hold regular
> events, get a feel for the social dynamics of the
> group (including how much
> time members have to commit), etc. Once a certain
> threshold was reached (X
> number of events in a year, Y number of cives
> willing to commit to the
> chapter, etc.) it could petition the governor to be
> promoted to the next
> tier, which I call the "municipium".

I would dare to suggest that the building of a new
civitas has already began in Madrid, Hispania. This is
due to the fact that I have convinced quite a large
(at least for Nova Roma standards) number of people to
apply for Novoroman citizenship recently.

None of us has already received citizenship, largely
due to the overlapping comitia that exclude the
acceptance of new citizens, but we should start
receiving our citizenship confirmations as soon as
comitia are called off.

Nonetheless, we have already started talking about
joining together to perform Nova Roma activities. The
first one I've suggested is the celebration of the
founding of Rome in d.X ante Kal. Maius (April 21).
It'll be easy to celebrate such a meeting because we
all live in the Madrid area, and because most of us
already know each other.

Of course, I extend an invitation to every Roman
citizen to join us, and I'll happily accept
suggestions on how such an important festivity should
be celebrated.

Bene Vale.
Gnaeus Salix Astur, protocivis romanus.

=====
Bene Valete!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Protocivis romanus.

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Communities
From:	"Sean Sheridan Richards" <legioix@-------->
Date:	Wed, 04 Apr 2001 23:49:27 -0000

May I suggest the term...

- "Castrum" for a legion reenactor based group.

- "Academia" for a group located on a school campus.

Hibernicus

Legio IX Hispana