| Subject: |
[novaroma] Announcement of New Australia Province Mailing List |
| From: |
"Daniel Place" <Danat2000@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 10:36:03 +0930 |
|
Salvete Quirites,
I hereby announce the creation of the mailing list for the Province of Australia. Australia has never had an official provincial list before and I believe that this will help in developing a greater sense of a Nova Roman community here in Australia, and also New Zealand and other regions of Oceania.
Anyone, whether living in an Oceanian region or simply interested in what goes on with the Nova Roman community 'down here', is welcome to join. I invite anyone interested in joining to subscribe via the lists' homepage at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Australia
valete
Marcus Arcadius Pius
Propraetor Australia
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] Announcement of New Australia Province Mailing Lis t |
| From: |
Mark A Bird <mark_a_bird@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 12:18:58 +1000 |
|
Salve Marcus Pius
Thank you for being so pro active, however when I clicked on this it asked
for a password and log in ID - would this be because I did this from my work
machine which is probably "fire walled" or is this a problem at Nova's end
???"
By the way - where is our new Governor based - i.e. what city ??>>>
Vale
Marcus Sentius Claudius
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Place [mailto:Danat2000@--------]
Sent: Thursday, 5 April 2001 11:06 Am
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: [novaroma] Announcement of New Australia Province Mailing List
Salvete Quirites,
I hereby announce the creation of the mailing list for the Province of
Australia. Australia has never had an official provincial list before and I
believe that this will help in developing a greater sense of a Nova Roman
community here in Australia, and also New Zealand and other regions of
Oceania.
Anyone, whether living in an Oceanian region or simply interested in what
goes on with the Nova Roman community 'down here', is welcome to join. I
invite anyone interested in joining to subscribe via the lists' homepage at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Australia
valete
Marcus Arcadius Pius
Propraetor Australia
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the Network Administrator on +61 3 9667 6699.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been scanned
for the presence of computer viruses and inappropriate content.
**********************************************************************
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Announcement of New Australia Province Mailing Lis t |
| From: |
"Daniel Place" <Danat2000@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 11:58:10 +0930 |
|
Salve,
Unsure exactly as there has been a message or two already posted, at a guess is it possible that it would be due to you needing to log into Yahoogroups to subscribe to anything. As you are a member of Nova Roma's group you'd have a Yahoogroup password.....If I'm barking up the wrong tree please let me know.
BTW I'm from Adelaide.
vale
Marcus Arcadius Pius
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark A Bird
To: 'novaroma@--------'
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 11:48 AM
Subject: RE: [novaroma] Announcement of New Australia Province Mailing Lis t
Salve Marcus Pius
Thank you for being so pro active, however when I clicked on this it asked
for a password and log in ID - would this be because I did this from my work
machine which is probably "fire walled" or is this a problem at Nova's end
???"
By the way - where is our new Governor based - i.e. what city ??>>>
Vale
Marcus Sentius Claudius
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Place [mailto:Danat2000@--------]
Sent: Thursday, 5 April 2001 11:06 Am
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: [novaroma] Announcement of New Australia Province Mailing List
Salvete Quirites,
I hereby announce the creation of the mailing list for the Province of
Australia. Australia has never had an official provincial list before and I
believe that this will help in developing a greater sense of a Nova Roman
community here in Australia, and also New Zealand and other regions of
Oceania.
Anyone, whether living in an Oceanian region or simply interested in what
goes on with the Nova Roman community 'down here', is welcome to join. I
invite anyone interested in joining to subscribe via the lists' homepage at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Australia
valete
Marcus Arcadius Pius
Propraetor Australia
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the Network Administrator on +61 3 9667 6699.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been scanned
for the presence of computer viruses and inappropriate content.
**********************************************************************
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Conflict of Interest |
| From: |
"A. Cato" <a.cato@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 00:24:05 -0400 |
|
Salvete Omnes: A situation is taking place in this present election in the Comitia Plebis Tributa that has resulted in some E-mail that raises the possibility of a conflict of interest. I firmly believe that not only should there never be conflict of interest, but that there should never even be the appearance that there is a conflict of interest. Although there may be the odd person who can juggle conflicting positions without any major trouble, it would set a dangerous precedent for the future. At some time in the future, another candidate in an election could point to this occasion, and justify his running for a position conflicting with one he already holds. This MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN.
I hearby ask for a Lex to be created to prevent such situations from taking place. I firmly believe that this must be done to protect the integrity of our institutions.
Ave atque vale, ... Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato
civis Novae Romae
Rogator
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] Conflict of Interest |
| From: |
Mark A Bird <mark_a_bird@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 14:36:27 +1000 |
|
I therefore submit that you will need to support Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
in the election for Tribune of The Plebs, due to the opposing candidates
perceived conflict. Just pointing this out - or am I missing something..
Marcus Sentius Claudius
-----Original Message-----
From: A. Cato [mailto:a.cato@--------]
Sent: Thursday, 5 April 2001 2:24 Pm
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: [novaroma] Conflict of Interest
Salvete Omnes: A situation is taking place in this present election in
the Comitia Plebis Tributa that has resulted in some E-mail that raises the
possibility of a conflict of interest. I firmly believe that not only should
there never be conflict of interest, but that there should never even be the
appearance that there is a conflict of interest. Although there may be the
odd person who can juggle conflicting positions without any major trouble,
it would set a dangerous precedent for the future. At some time in the
future, another candidate in an election could point to this occasion, and
justify his running for a position conflicting with one he already holds.
This MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN.
I hearby ask for a Lex to be created to prevent such situations from
taking place. I firmly believe that this must be done to protect the
integrity of our institutions.
Ave atque vale, ... Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato
civis Novae Romae
Rogator
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the Network Administrator on +61 3 9667 6699.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been scanned
for the presence of computer viruses and inappropriate content.
**********************************************************************
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Conflict of Interest |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 04 Apr 2001 21:43:17 -0700 |
|
Ave,
My comments below:
on 4/4/01 9:36 PM, Mark A Bird at mark_a_bird@-------- wrote:
> I therefore submit that you will need to support Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
> in the election for Tribune of The Plebs, due to the opposing candidates
> perceived conflict. Just pointing this out - or am I missing something..
I do think you are missing something....and I would be hesitant about
proclaiming declarations like that until you know exactly what the conflict
is about. For all we know there can be a conflict between the Rogators.
Until our Senior Magistrates comment on this matter. Both candidates are
Governors. Q. Sertorius is just a Quaestor, which is juat an Administrative
Assistant assigned to a Curule Aedile. Hardly a position of dictating any
policy.
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> Marcus Sentius Claudius
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: A. Cato [mailto:a.cato@--------]
> Sent: Thursday, 5 April 2001 2:24 Pm
> To: novaroma@--------
> Subject: [novaroma] Conflict of Interest
>
>
> Salvete Omnes: A situation is taking place in this present election in
> the Comitia Plebis Tributa that has resulted in some E-mail that raises the
> possibility of a conflict of interest. I firmly believe that not only should
> there never be conflict of interest, but that there should never even be the
> appearance that there is a conflict of interest. Although there may be the
> odd person who can juggle conflicting positions without any major trouble,
> it would set a dangerous precedent for the future. At some time in the
> future, another candidate in an election could point to this occasion, and
> justify his running for a position conflicting with one he already holds.
> This MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN.
> I hearby ask for a Lex to be created to prevent such situations from
> taking place. I firmly believe that this must be done to protect the
> integrity of our institutions.
> Ave atque vale, ... Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato
> civis Novae Romae
> Rogator
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> **********************************************************************
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
> are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
> the Network Administrator on +61 3 9667 6699.
>
> This footnote also confirms that this email message has been scanned
> for the presence of computer viruses and inappropriate content.
> **********************************************************************
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Conflict of Interest |
| From: |
"A. Cato" <a.cato@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 01:07:37 -0400 |
|
Salve Marce Senti: As one of the Rogators of Nova Roma, being intimately
involved in the election process, I do not vote in the elections. This is
one of the rules when you accept the position of Rogator. I am privy to all
of the election data as it comes in, so the requirement of not voting is an
absolute necessity.
Ave atque vale, ... Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato
civis Novae Romae
Rogator
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark A Bird" <mark_a_bird@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 12:36 AM
Subject: RE: [novaroma] Conflict of Interest
> I therefore submit that you will need to support Lucius Pompeius
Octavianus
> in the election for Tribune of The Plebs, due to the opposing candidates
> perceived conflict. Just pointing this out - or am I missing something..
>
> Marcus Sentius Claudius
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: A. Cato [mailto:a.cato@--------]
> Sent: Thursday, 5 April 2001 2:24 Pm
> To: novaroma@--------
> Subject: [novaroma] Conflict of Interest
>
>
> Salvete Omnes: A situation is taking place in this present election in
> the Comitia Plebis Tributa that has resulted in some E-mail that raises
the
> possibility of a conflict of interest. I firmly believe that not only
should
> there never be conflict of interest, but that there should never even be
the
> appearance that there is a conflict of interest. Although there may be the
> odd person who can juggle conflicting positions without any major trouble,
> it would set a dangerous precedent for the future. At some time in the
> future, another candidate in an election could point to this occasion, and
> justify his running for a position conflicting with one he already holds.
> This MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN.
> I hearby ask for a Lex to be created to prevent such situations from
> taking place. I firmly believe that this must be done to protect the
> integrity of our institutions.
> Ave atque vale, ... Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato
> civis Novae Romae
> Rogator
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> **********************************************************************
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
> are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
> the Network Administrator on +61 3 9667 6699.
>
> This footnote also confirms that this email message has been scanned
> for the presence of computer viruses and inappropriate content.
> **********************************************************************
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest |
| From: |
"A. Cato" <a.cato@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 01:12:21 -0400 |
|
Salve Luci Corneli et Marce Senti: In reply, I ask you to read the below
post from our noble Consul, Flavius Vedius Germanicus. I agree with his
statement. Ave atque vale, Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato ... Civis et
Rogator Novae Romae
----- Original Message -----
From: "Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 12:15 PM
Subject: RE: [novaroma] VOTE SERTORIUS FOR TRIBUNE
> Salvete
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Quintus Sertorius [mailto:quintus-sertorius@--------]
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 07:49
> >
> > VOTE SERTORIUS FOR TRIBUNE
>
> Aside from getting two dozen or so copies of this same message ;-), I
would
> like to question our good candidate for Tribune on one aspect of his
> candidacy.
>
> Given that you already serve in a magisterial position (quaestor) as well
as
> a governorship (Canada Occidentalis), do you not feel that there would be
a
> conflict of interest between those roles and the role of Tribune of the
> Plebs? After all, the Tribunes are our guardians of the Constitution
against
> excesses by other magistrates. Given the fact that we are not forced by a
> lack of candidates this time around to double-up on jobs (as we have,
> admittedly, had to do in the past), how do you justify seeking a post
which
> could, conceivably, be called upon to overturn the actions of one of your
> other offices? I would think that, of all the magistracies in our
Republic,
> the Tribune of the Plebs should have no other interests during his tenure
in
> office.
>
> I do not ask this in an adversarial capacity, but more to point out an
> aspect of your particular situation which may not have occurred to you or
> others.
>
> Next year in the Forum!
>
> Vale,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> Consul
>
> email: germanicus@--------
> AIM: Flavius Vedius
> www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest |
| From: |
Mark A Bird <mark_a_bird@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 15:14:43 +1000 |
|
Yes read and rubbed in and have been chastised enough already thank you very
much
-----Original Message-----
From: A. Cato [mailto:a.cato@--------]
Sent: Thursday, 5 April 2001 3:12 Pm
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest
Salve Luci Corneli et Marce Senti: In reply, I ask you to read the below
post from our noble Consul, Flavius Vedius Germanicus. I agree with his
statement. Ave atque vale, Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato ... Civis et
Rogator Novae Romae
----- Original Message -----
From: "Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 12:15 PM
Subject: RE: [novaroma] VOTE SERTORIUS FOR TRIBUNE
> Salvete
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Quintus Sertorius [mailto:quintus-sertorius@--------]
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 07:49
> >
> > VOTE SERTORIUS FOR TRIBUNE
>
> Aside from getting two dozen or so copies of this same message ;-), I
would
> like to question our good candidate for Tribune on one aspect of his
> candidacy.
>
> Given that you already serve in a magisterial position (quaestor) as well
as
> a governorship (Canada Occidentalis), do you not feel that there would be
a
> conflict of interest between those roles and the role of Tribune of the
> Plebs? After all, the Tribunes are our guardians of the Constitution
against
> excesses by other magistrates. Given the fact that we are not forced by a
> lack of candidates this time around to double-up on jobs (as we have,
> admittedly, had to do in the past), how do you justify seeking a post
which
> could, conceivably, be called upon to overturn the actions of one of your
> other offices? I would think that, of all the magistracies in our
Republic,
> the Tribune of the Plebs should have no other interests during his tenure
in
> office.
>
> I do not ask this in an adversarial capacity, but more to point out an
> aspect of your particular situation which may not have occurred to you or
> others.
>
> Next year in the Forum!
>
> Vale,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> Consul
>
> email: germanicus@--------
> AIM: Flavius Vedius
> www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the Network Administrator on +61 3 9667 6699.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been scanned
for the presence of computer viruses and inappropriate content.
**********************************************************************
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 04 Apr 2001 22:17:58 -0700 |
|
Ahh...thank you for that post...but then the conflict would be for both
candidates for they are both Governors. :) And besides the constitution is
clear about the Quaestor, they are financial officers they do not set
policy, draft edicts or such. In essence they are administrative assistants
and most executive assistants. If any position would be a conflict it would
be as Governor, since governors are invested with Imperium in their
province.
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
on 4/4/01 10:12 PM, A. Cato at a.cato@-------- wrote:
> Salve Luci Corneli et Marce Senti: In reply, I ask you to read the below
> post from our noble Consul, Flavius Vedius Germanicus. I agree with his
> statement. Ave atque vale, Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato ... Civis et
> Rogator Novae Romae
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
> To: <novaroma@-------->
> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 12:15 PM
> Subject: RE: [novaroma] VOTE SERTORIUS FOR TRIBUNE
>
>
>> Salvete
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Quintus Sertorius [mailto:quintus-sertorius@--------]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 07:49
>>>
>>> VOTE SERTORIUS FOR TRIBUNE
>>
>> Aside from getting two dozen or so copies of this same message ;-), I
> would
>> like to question our good candidate for Tribune on one aspect of his
>> candidacy.
>>
>> Given that you already serve in a magisterial position (quaestor) as well
> as
>> a governorship (Canada Occidentalis), do you not feel that there would be
> a
>> conflict of interest between those roles and the role of Tribune of the
>> Plebs? After all, the Tribunes are our guardians of the Constitution
> against
>> excesses by other magistrates. Given the fact that we are not forced by a
>> lack of candidates this time around to double-up on jobs (as we have,
>> admittedly, had to do in the past), how do you justify seeking a post
> which
>> could, conceivably, be called upon to overturn the actions of one of your
>> other offices? I would think that, of all the magistracies in our
> Republic,
>> the Tribune of the Plebs should have no other interests during his tenure
> in
>> office.
>>
>> I do not ask this in an adversarial capacity, but more to point out an
>> aspect of your particular situation which may not have occurred to you or
>> others.
>>
>> Next year in the Forum!
>>
>> Vale,
>>
>> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
>> Consul
>>
>> email: germanicus@--------
>> AIM: Flavius Vedius
>> www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Conflict of Interest |
| From: |
"Lucius Mauricius Procopious" <procopious@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 4 Apr 2001 22:34:30 -0700 |
|
Salvete Omnes,
Unless I am mistaken it has already been mentioned that both candidates are
Propraetors and both have a conflict of interest. Perhaps
http://www.novaroma.org/bin/view/civisid=227
http://www.novaroma.org/bin/view/civis?id=445
will help clear this up for anyone uncertain as to the status of both
candidates. Boy I hope those links work! If not check the Tabularium Civitum
for yourselves.
Lucius Mauricius Procopious
Propraetor America Boreoccidentalis
(This is an unofficial post for which I assume full responsibility)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
procopious@--------
ICQ# 83516618
*America Boreoccidentalis Mail List
http://www.egroups.com/group/AmBor_Waves
* The Gens Mauricia
http://www.geocities.com/procopious
"Indeed, it is not by the plans of men, but by the hand of God that the
affairs of men are directed; and this men call Fate, not knowing the reason
for what things they see occur; and what seems to be without cause is easy
to call the accident of chance. Still, this is a matter every mortal will
decide for himself according to his taste."
-Procopius of Caesarea (in Palestine) [born c.490/507- died c.560s]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark A Bird" <mark_a_bird@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 9:36 PM
Subject: RE: [novaroma] Conflict of Interest
> I therefore submit that you will need to support Lucius Pompeius
Octavianus
> in the election for Tribune of The Plebs, due to the opposing candidates
> perceived conflict. Just pointing this out - or am I missing something..
>
> Marcus Sentius Claudius
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: A. Cato [mailto:a.cato@--------]
> Sent: Thursday, 5 April 2001 2:24 Pm
> To: novaroma@--------
> Subject: [novaroma] Conflict of Interest
>
>
> Salvete Omnes: A situation is taking place in this present election in
> the Comitia Plebis Tributa that has resulted in some E-mail that raises
the
> possibility of a conflict of interest. I firmly believe that not only
should
> there never be conflict of interest, but that there should never even be
the
> appearance that there is a conflict of interest. Although there may be the
> odd person who can juggle conflicting positions without any major trouble,
> it would set a dangerous precedent for the future. At some time in the
> future, another candidate in an election could point to this occasion, and
> justify his running for a position conflicting with one he already holds.
> This MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN.
> I hearby ask for a Lex to be created to prevent such situations from
> taking place. I firmly believe that this must be done to protect the
> integrity of our institutions.
> Ave atque vale, ... Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato
> civis Novae Romae
> Rogator
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> **********************************************************************
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
> are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
> the Network Administrator on +61 3 9667 6699.
>
> This footnote also confirms that this email message has been scanned
> for the presence of computer viruses and inappropriate content.
> **********************************************************************
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest |
| From: |
"A. Cato" <a.cato@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 01:49:24 -0400 |
|
Salve Luci Corneli: I suppose my reason for making my post, and agreeing
with Flavius Vedius, is my concern with possible corruption down the road.
Here in Canada, I have seen so much corruption in our government over the
years due to conflict of interest that it makes me sick. And it only
continues to get worse. From what I have seen of your government in the
U.S., you have had some experience with it down there as well over the
years. I just hope to avoid that here in Nova Roma. the problem is, that
what may start out seeming to be harmless at first, can grow over time into
an ugly monster, if you get my drift. You'll have to excuse me if my message
seemed a bit harsh. I can get emotional about things like politics, and I
care very much for Nova Roma, and don't want Her to fall into corruption as
did ancient Rome.
However, if I ever step out of line on the list to much, don't hesitate
to give me a swift kick on the rear of my toga to pull me back in line. :-)
Ave atque vale, ... Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato, civis et Rogator
(When can you get the name Triumphius off the main page?) :-)
----- Original Message -----
From: "L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 1:17 AM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest
> Ahh...thank you for that post...but then the conflict would be for both
> candidates for they are both Governors. :) And besides the constitution
is
> clear about the Quaestor, they are financial officers they do not set
> policy, draft edicts or such. In essence they are administrative
assistants
> and most executive assistants. If any position would be a conflict it
would
> be as Governor, since governors are invested with Imperium in their
> province.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>
> on 4/4/01 10:12 PM, A. Cato at a.cato@-------- wrote:
>
> > Salve Luci Corneli et Marce Senti: In reply, I ask you to read the
below
> > post from our noble Consul, Flavius Vedius Germanicus. I agree with his
> > statement. Ave atque vale, Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato ... Civis et
> > Rogator Novae Romae
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
> > To: <novaroma@-------->
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 12:15 PM
> > Subject: RE: [novaroma] VOTE SERTORIUS FOR TRIBUNE
> >
> >
> >> Salvete
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Quintus Sertorius [mailto:quintus-sertorius@--------]
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 07:49
> >>>
> >>> VOTE SERTORIUS FOR TRIBUNE
> >>
> >> Aside from getting two dozen or so copies of this same message ;-), I
> > would
> >> like to question our good candidate for Tribune on one aspect of his
> >> candidacy.
> >>
> >> Given that you already serve in a magisterial position (quaestor) as
well
> > as
> >> a governorship (Canada Occidentalis), do you not feel that there would
be
> > a
> >> conflict of interest between those roles and the role of Tribune of the
> >> Plebs? After all, the Tribunes are our guardians of the Constitution
> > against
> >> excesses by other magistrates. Given the fact that we are not forced by
a
> >> lack of candidates this time around to double-up on jobs (as we have,
> >> admittedly, had to do in the past), how do you justify seeking a post
> > which
> >> could, conceivably, be called upon to overturn the actions of one of
your
> >> other offices? I would think that, of all the magistracies in our
> > Republic,
> >> the Tribune of the Plebs should have no other interests during his
tenure
> > in
> >> office.
> >>
> >> I do not ask this in an adversarial capacity, but more to point out an
> >> aspect of your particular situation which may not have occurred to you
or
> >> others.
> >>
> >> Next year in the Forum!
> >>
> >> Vale,
> >>
> >> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> >> Consul
> >>
> >> email: germanicus@--------
> >> AIM: Flavius Vedius
> >> www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 04 Apr 2001 23:00:15 -0700 |
|
on 4/4/01 10:49 PM, A. Cato at a.cato@-------- wrote:
> Salve Luci Corneli: I suppose my reason for making my post, and agreeing
> with Flavius Vedius, is my concern with possible corruption down the road.
> Here in Canada, I have seen so much corruption in our government over the
> years due to conflict of interest that it makes me sick. And it only
> continues to get worse. From what I have seen of your government in the
> U.S., you have had some experience with it down there as well over the
> years. I just hope to avoid that here in Nova Roma. the problem is, that
> what may start out seeming to be harmless at first, can grow over time into
> an ugly monster, if you get my drift. You'll have to excuse me if my message
> seemed a bit harsh. I can get emotional about things like politics, and I
> care very much for Nova Roma, and don't want Her to fall into corruption as
> did ancient Rome.
> However, if I ever step out of line on the list to much, don't hesitate
> to give me a swift kick on the rear of my toga to pull me back in line. :-)
> Ave atque vale, ... Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato, civis et Rogator
> (When can you get the name Triumphius off the main page?) :-)
Ave,
Far be it from me to state any government is perfect. I dont think any of
us would ever claim that...and I admire your zeal in trying to prevent
wrongs from occurring. I know that you are not accusing either candidate of
wrong doing. Both are excellent Romans. But, I agree the precedent (which
was established with the founders) of holding multiple offices does need to
end soon. You will get no arguement from me. I hope that one of our
Consuls (who happen to be our founders) might put for legislation to stop
this....but, until we have a year of government officials who do not resign
(no matter what office, whether it be Rogator or Censor or one of the minor
magistrates, or governor) we should move carefully. We have already
strengthened the Cursus Honorum in Nova Roma. And, so do we really want to
limit, further the potential pool of candidates?
The reason I say this is that Tribune Labienus announced the availabity of
the position. Out of the 500+ potential candidates who are Plebs only 2
candidates stepped forward. Both of them already have Imperium. So in
essence both have a conflict as pointed out by Propraetor Lucius Mauricius.
In my honest opinion, we should have a bigger pool of candidates available
for us if we are going to totally end this avenue of candidates. I might be
wrong in my opinion, but it is just my honest opinion.
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@-------->
> To: <novaroma@-------->
> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 1:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest
>
>
>> Ahh...thank you for that post...but then the conflict would be for both
>> candidates for they are both Governors. :) And besides the constitution
> is
>> clear about the Quaestor, they are financial officers they do not set
>> policy, draft edicts or such. In essence they are administrative
> assistants
>> and most executive assistants. If any position would be a conflict it
> would
>> be as Governor, since governors are invested with Imperium in their
>> province.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>>
>> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>>
>> on 4/4/01 10:12 PM, A. Cato at a.cato@-------- wrote:
>>
>>> Salve Luci Corneli et Marce Senti: In reply, I ask you to read the
> below
>>> post from our noble Consul, Flavius Vedius Germanicus. I agree with his
>>> statement. Ave atque vale, Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato ... Civis et
>>> Rogator Novae Romae
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
>>> To: <novaroma@-------->
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 12:15 PM
>>> Subject: RE: [novaroma] VOTE SERTORIUS FOR TRIBUNE
>>>
>>>
>>>> Salvete
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Quintus Sertorius [mailto:quintus-sertorius@--------]
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 07:49
>>>>>
>>>>> VOTE SERTORIUS FOR TRIBUNE
>>>>
>>>> Aside from getting two dozen or so copies of this same message ;-), I
>>> would
>>>> like to question our good candidate for Tribune on one aspect of his
>>>> candidacy.
>>>>
>>>> Given that you already serve in a magisterial position (quaestor) as
> well
>>> as
>>>> a governorship (Canada Occidentalis), do you not feel that there would
> be
>>> a
>>>> conflict of interest between those roles and the role of Tribune of the
>>>> Plebs? After all, the Tribunes are our guardians of the Constitution
>>> against
>>>> excesses by other magistrates. Given the fact that we are not forced by
> a
>>>> lack of candidates this time around to double-up on jobs (as we have,
>>>> admittedly, had to do in the past), how do you justify seeking a post
>>> which
>>>> could, conceivably, be called upon to overturn the actions of one of
> your
>>>> other offices? I would think that, of all the magistracies in our
>>> Republic,
>>>> the Tribune of the Plebs should have no other interests during his
> tenure
>>> in
>>>> office.
>>>>
>>>> I do not ask this in an adversarial capacity, but more to point out an
>>>> aspect of your particular situation which may not have occurred to you
> or
>>>> others.
>>>>
>>>> Next year in the Forum!
>>>>
>>>> Vale,
>>>>
>>>> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
>>>> Consul
>>>>
>>>> email: germanicus@--------
>>>> AIM: Flavius Vedius
>>>> www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest |
| From: |
marcusaemiliusscaurus@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 05 Apr 2001 06:05:57 -0000 |
|
Salve Censor Sulla, et Rogator Cato,
I think I agree with what Sulla has said. A Tribune is meant to
protect the plebs if their rights are threatened. I can't think of
any situation off the top of my head where a quaestor could take the
rights of the plebeians away.
Just a thought.
Bene valete,
Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus
Rogator.
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest |
| From: |
gaiuscoriolanus@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 05 Apr 2001 06:06:48 -0000 |
|
Salvete
This seems to be a very dangerous precednes if one citizen will take
more than one office. If we'll accept it it could easily turn agaist
us.
Valete
Gaius Marcius Coriolanus
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest |
| From: |
"A. Cato" <a.cato@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 02:25:16 -0400 |
|
Salve: I agree with your opinion Luci Corneli. But then the question arises; How are we to encourage more citizens to step forward and get involved in the administration of government, the Religio, etc., etc.? Among the pool of citizens Patrician and Plebian there must be a great many who have tremendous talents that they could offer. What is holding them back?
I think that what is need is a brainstorming session to come up with some answers. How many citizens do you figure applied for citizenship, received their citizenship, and then forgot about Nova Roma? How many signed onto the main list and receive these E-mails?
We must find a way to get more citizens involved in the affairs of Nova Roma. But how?
Best Regards, Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest |
| From: |
"Oppius Flaccus Severus" <oppiusflaccus@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 4 Apr 2001 23:29:54 -0700 |
|
Salvete Gai Marci et Quiritibus;
As has been pointed out, this issue indeed has come up and
has been addressed as well as possible, given the current limitations
on our legal system.
It is not necessarily 'dangerous,' in and of itself to have
two fine and dedicated Plebeian candidates such as Q. Sertorius
et L. Pompeius step before us. The positions that each holds stands
little chance of official conflict. It would be quite a different
issue; say if one of them was Praetor Urbanus, Censor or Consul.
One must also realize, that unfortunately due to our current
size and severe lack of active cives, we can ill afford to continually
try and restrict the pool of candidates on the one hand, while
criticizing those caring and dedicated office holders that step forward yet
again to offer noble service to our Respublica.
This issue also hearkens back to the debates that occurred during
the 'Cursus Honorum' discussions. If you remember from the time,
there was quite a bit of argument, discussion and dissension over
any officially instituted Cursus at this early stage of Roma's
growth for precisely this reason and the type of situation that
we now see before us.
However, since we have seen fit to pass the Cursus, AND since
we suffer a lack of dedicated cives given our current citizenship
numbers, then we have to deal with it when quality candidates
that also meet our legal requirements step forward to run for
office. Not a perfect situation to be sure;
certainly one that will change in time as we grow and mature
as a Respublica -but for now, the situation is what it is.
Quintus Sertorius and Lucius Pompeius are both Romans of the
highest caliber and we are indeed blessed to have them step
forward on our behalf.
>From here, we let the polls decide.
Bene valete,
-Oppius Flaccus Severus, Legatus America Boreoccidentalis Major
-----Original Message-----
From: gaiuscoriolanus@-------- [mailto:gaiuscoriolanus@--------]
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 11:07 PM
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest
Salvete
This seems to be a very dangerous precednes if one citizen will take
more than one office. If we'll accept it it could easily turn agaist
us.
Valete
Gaius Marcius Coriolanus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest |
| From: |
QFabiusMax@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 02:36:13 EDT |
|
Salve Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato,
As far as I can tell, Rogators are not supposed to make statements about
elections.
You are to be totally impartial. Your job is to count votes and not make
policy. Or confirm policy. That is left to the Senior Magistrates. And if
you stop to think about our formation of our new nation, the first year we
had officials that held many offices since our available numbers were so
small. Conflicts would eventually rise. That is why we take an oath. To
keep us from putting our own interests beyond those of Romes'. If either are
elected, the Tribunate will come first, but since our current Tribune is also
a Senator and former Provincial magistrate, I see no conflict involved.
Vale
Q. Fabius Maximus.
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest |
| From: |
QFabiusMax@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 02:44:33 EDT |
|
In a message dated 4/4/2001 11:36:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
QFabiusMax@-------- writes:
<< Salve Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato,
As far as I can tell, Rogators...>>
Salvete,
This was to be a private communique between Tullius and myself. I forgot
that we switched the address system back again.
I apologize for the waste of band width and to those whose valuable time was
spent reading this.
Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest: A. Cato |
| From: |
"A. Cato" <a.cato@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 03:00:18 -0400 |
|
Salve Q.Fabi: I was initially concerned as to whether it would be proper to enter on this subject. For this reason I approached our noble Consul, Flavius Vedius, to to ask of his opinion. His reply is below. He first raised the issue of conflict of interest, and I agreed with him. Lucius Maricius Procopious also takes this stand.
However, your explanation does make sense. Perhaps we are stuck doing it this way until such time as more citizens take part and we have a greater pool of people to work with. I hope Flavius Vedius and Lucius Maricius read your post, because what you have said has an excellent chance of changing my opinion and may change theirs also. Please read our Consuls reply to my original concern below
With Respect, Ave atque vale, Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato
----- Original Message -----
From: Flavius Vedius Germanicus
To: A. Cato
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:21 AM
Subject: RE: Quintus Sertorius
Salve;
I think you should not let your position as rogator lead you to believe you cannot participate at all in our political process. :-) I certainly think that a private note from you would not be at all inappropriate, and were I in your position I wouldn't be shy about posting to the main list, either. Even as a rogator you are entitled to hold and voice your opinion.
Vale,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul
email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
-----Original Message-----
From: A. Cato [mailto:a.cato@--------]
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 00:47
To: Flavius Vedius Germanicus
Subject: Quintus Sertorius
Ave Consul Flavi Vedi Germanice: I am not sure what is the proper in this case, so I approach you in quest of your greater knowledge in this matter. I am a Rogator, so I am to remain neutral in elections and not vote, because of my sensitive position. Allow me to describe the situation. I consider Quintus Sertorius to be a friend of mine. He understands that I can not take a position one way or another concerning him in this election, such as canvassing for him on the list.
However, although he is a friend, I happen to agree with you, that his running for Tribunus Plebis would involve a conflict of interest, and he should not run in this election. I, personally, am totally against this happening, and believe it could set a bad precedent.
So my question for you, Consul, is this ... Would it be irresponsible of me to send a note to Quintus Sertorius telling him that I too, believe that he should withdraw from this election, agreeing with your argument that this would be case of conflict of interest? Or should I remain silent in respect of my position as Rogator? Or does my position as Rogator allow a communication concerning such a subject? I will have total respect for your opinion on this matter. Ave atque vale, ... Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato
civis Novae Romae
Rogator
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest |
| From: |
"Oppius Flaccus Severus" <oppiusflaccus@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 00:05:32 -0700 |
|
Salvete Rogator Appi Tulli et Quiritibus;
Just a few comments, since you raise some excellent
points Appi;
1-By way of a starting point, in the last major elections (December,)
we had about 197 cives out of over 600 vote at all.
2-For the current Plebeian elections, it is doubtful that we will
see even 100 legitimate votes. This is of course just my unofficial
guess and opinion based on results I've seen posted from previous
elections, but 100 or less seems to be a good number.
So, given these numbers we can form at least a general opinion that
there is a lack of truly active cives.
So how do we correct it?
Personally, I think correction needs to start in two places:
1-With the Paterfamilias/Materfamilias of each Gens. Like the rest
of the citizen population, some are very active, caring and dedicated;
some are not. Ultimately, it is up to them to ensure that the welfare
and activity levels of their familias are benefiting the family AND
Roma.
2-With the Provinces. It is on this level where I think we are seeing
the most activity. With the recent appointment of so many excellent
Propraetors, coupled with the increasing interest from cives in building
community -grassroots interest in building a physical community is
on the rise. As myself and others have pointed out many times on this
and other lists -people have to start viewing Nova Roma as a *physical*
community as opposed to a *virtual* one, before many will forge any
strong bonds of kinship and involvement with the community as a whole.
To use a macronational example, one can but look at the abysmal voter
turn out for most elections here in the states. -And this is at the
macronational
level! Not a factor that bodes well for a micronation, where all the
members are strictly volunteers.
On the upside, I can but look at my Province, which has floundered and wallowed
in
obscuria for the past few years due to lack of participation and strong
leadership. Now, we are blessed with an energetic, capable and dedicated
Governor who is starting to bring people together. People that had not
previously met except through e-mail are now meeting and talking
on the phone regularly. -The same is happening in other provinces as well.
This being said, I think we're on the right track as far as building
a 'real world' community goes. However, we're still too widely and
thinly distributed and our organization is still in the very early
phases of its growth. So -it will likely take a few elections, a few
more real-world meetings, a few more active Paters/Maters before we'll
start seeing significant change.
Just my .02 denarii.
Bene valete,
Oppius Flaccus Severus, Legatus America Boreoccidentalis Major
-----Original Message-----
From: A. Cato [mailto:a.cato@--------]
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 11:25 PM
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest
Salve: I agree with your opinion Luci Corneli. But then the question arises; How
are we to encourage more citizens to step forward and get involved in the
administration of government, the Religio, etc., etc.? Among the pool of
citizens Patrician and Plebian there must be a great many who have tremendous
talents that they could offer. What is holding them back?
I think that what is need is a brainstorming session to come up with some
answers. How many citizens do you figure applied for citizenship, received their
citizenship, and then forgot about Nova Roma? How many signed onto the main list
and receive these E-mails?
We must find a way to get more citizens involved in the affairs of Nova
Roma. But how?
Best Regards, Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Making SPQR Grow |
| From: |
Mark A Bird <mark_a_bird@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 17:26:03 +1000 |
|
I have previously voiced my opinion on these matters, but I believe that I
may have done this to one or two Senators directly. Surely the provinces
must be given the prime task of involving all citizens in their province in
some way - this can by news letter or the organisation of some events for
instance. The starting point to this, as you say, is to appoint someone to
a Gpovernorship with the appropriate experience and enthusiasm, to work
their province so as the Citizens feel like something is happening. This
will call for good admin support. - What do other provinces do ??>>>> Do we
have legions in Oz etc, should we create some ....>>> Perhaps develop some
guidelines on developing your province - say look at it as a Franchise and
we use Nova as the Franchisee etc. (sorry to use the business term but I
thought the analogy was interesting).
A focal point can be social outings at the beginning - the experienced
members of Nova need to share their experience with the new Governors on how
the better provinces are working and how they got their ???
Can the provinces levy taxes yet ??? This will help to do things - but I
for one am willing to donate some money to get ours happening as I am so
keen to see it grow. I look in ore at some of the web sites that some of our
provinces have - the development of an email list etc for the province.
And .... am also surprised that I read the other day that we have a number
of provinces that currently have no Governor - does this mean that they have
no real focal point or leadership (no offence to any one who has a Senior
appointment in these Provinces !!!) I see that one of these is Britain -
where does this leave Britannia ...>>>???
I for one am going to get to work to help the new Governor of Australia to
make our province grow and spread the word to all and sundry about the SPQR.
AND eventhough I will continue to make some dumb comments on this post - I
will hopefully keep these to a minimum - but it will not stop me from having
my two cenatri's worth etc.
Mrcus Antonius Claudius
-----Original Message-----
From: Oppius Flaccus Severus [mailto:oppiusflaccus@--------]
Sent: Thursday, 5 April 2001 5:06 Pm
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: RE: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest
Salvete Rogator Appi Tulli et Quiritibus;
Just a few comments, since you raise some excellent
points Appi;
1-By way of a starting point, in the last major elections (December,)
we had about 197 cives out of over 600 vote at all.
2-For the current Plebeian elections, it is doubtful that we will
see even 100 legitimate votes. This is of course just my unofficial
guess and opinion based on results I've seen posted from previous
elections, but 100 or less seems to be a good number.
So, given these numbers we can form at least a general opinion that
there is a lack of truly active cives.
So how do we correct it?
Personally, I think correction needs to start in two places:
1-With the Paterfamilias/Materfamilias of each Gens. Like the rest
of the citizen population, some are very active, caring and dedicated;
some are not. Ultimately, it is up to them to ensure that the welfare
and activity levels of their familias are benefiting the family AND
Roma.
2-With the Provinces. It is on this level where I think we are seeing
the most activity. With the recent appointment of so many excellent
Propraetors, coupled with the increasing interest from cives in building
community -grassroots interest in building a physical community is
on the rise. As myself and others have pointed out many times on this
and other lists -people have to start viewing Nova Roma as a *physical*
community as opposed to a *virtual* one, before many will forge any
strong bonds of kinship and involvement with the community as a whole.
To use a macronational example, one can but look at the abysmal voter
turn out for most elections here in the states. -And this is at the
macronational
level! Not a factor that bodes well for a micronation, where all the
members are strictly volunteers.
On the upside, I can but look at my Province, which has floundered and
wallowed
in
obscuria for the past few years due to lack of participation and strong
leadership. Now, we are blessed with an energetic, capable and dedicated
Governor who is starting to bring people together. People that had not
previously met except through e-mail are now meeting and talking
on the phone regularly. -The same is happening in other provinces as well.
This being said, I think we're on the right track as far as building
a 'real world' community goes. However, we're still too widely and
thinly distributed and our organization is still in the very early
phases of its growth. So -it will likely take a few elections, a few
more real-world meetings, a few more active Paters/Maters before we'll
start seeing significant change.
Just my .02 denarii.
Bene valete,
Oppius Flaccus Severus, Legatus America Boreoccidentalis Major
-----Original Message-----
From: A. Cato [mailto:a.cato@--------]
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 11:25 PM
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest
Salve: I agree with your opinion Luci Corneli. But then the question arises;
How
are we to encourage more citizens to step forward and get involved in the
administration of government, the Religio, etc., etc.? Among the pool of
citizens Patrician and Plebian there must be a great many who have
tremendous
talents that they could offer. What is holding them back?
I think that what is need is a brainstorming session to come up with
some
answers. How many citizens do you figure applied for citizenship, received
their
citizenship, and then forgot about Nova Roma? How many signed onto the main
list
and receive these E-mails?
We must find a way to get more citizens involved in the affairs of Nova
Roma. But how?
Best Regards, Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest Apology |
| From: |
"A. Cato" <a.cato@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 04:21:27 -0400 |
|
Salvete Omnes: Due to information from the Noble Senator and Praetor, Quintus Fabius Maximus, and one or two others, pointing out some interesting items, among which is the fact that out of all our citizens, only a relative few take active part in our Republic of Nova Roma, and therefor it is necessary at this point for individuals to hold a greater number of positions then we would like, I have decided to remove myself from this discussion. I will no longer place posts on this topic or reply to any posts about this topic refered to in the above subject line. I apologize to any concerned that may have been hurt by my entering this discussion. I only did so initially out of my love and concern for Nova Roma. To those who have sent me private E-mails expressing their support for me on the topic all I have to say is that I have changed my mind, and have decided that I was mistaken.
Ave atque vale, ... Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato, Rogator
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Making SPQR Grow |
| From: |
Craig Stevenson <dougies@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 05 Apr 2001 18:11:25 +0930 |
|
Ave Marcus Sentius,
There are indeed legions in Australia, one stationed in the Blue Mountains, and
the other I think is stationed in the Dandenongs, but they have no affiliation
with Nova Roma. I have been in contact with their commanders on various
occasions, but I know little of them apart from where they are located.
I also will do what I can to make Australia provincia better, and hope that we
can make our provincia a model one.
Valete bene,
Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura
Mark A Bird wrote:
> I have previously voiced my opinion on these matters, but I believe that I
> may have done this to one or two Senators directly. Surely the provinces
> must be given the prime task of involving all citizens in their province in
> some way - this can by news letter or the organisation of some events for
> instance. The starting point to this, as you say, is to appoint someone to
> a Gpovernorship with the appropriate experience and enthusiasm, to work
> their province so as the Citizens feel like something is happening. This
> will call for good admin support. - What do other provinces do ??>>>> Do we
> have legions in Oz etc, should we create some ....>>> Perhaps develop some
> guidelines on developing your province - say look at it as a Franchise and
> we use Nova as the Franchisee etc. (sorry to use the business term but I
> thought the analogy was interesting).
>
> A focal point can be social outings at the beginning - the experienced
> members of Nova need to share their experience with the new Governors on how
> the better provinces are working and how they got their ???
>
> Can the provinces levy taxes yet ??? This will help to do things - but I
> for one am willing to donate some money to get ours happening as I am so
> keen to see it grow. I look in ore at some of the web sites that some of our
> provinces have - the development of an email list etc for the province.
>
> And .... am also surprised that I read the other day that we have a number
> of provinces that currently have no Governor - does this mean that they have
> no real focal point or leadership (no offence to any one who has a Senior
> appointment in these Provinces !!!) I see that one of these is Britain -
> where does this leave Britannia ...>>>???
>
> I for one am going to get to work to help the new Governor of Australia to
> make our province grow and spread the word to all and sundry about the SPQR.
> AND eventhough I will continue to make some dumb comments on this post - I
> will hopefully keep these to a minimum - but it will not stop me from having
> my two cenatri's worth etc.
>
> Mrcus Antonius Claudius
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Oppius Flaccus Severus [mailto:oppiusflaccus@--------]
> Sent: Thursday, 5 April 2001 5:06 Pm
> To: novaroma@--------
> Subject: RE: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest
>
> Salvete Rogator Appi Tulli et Quiritibus;
>
> Just a few comments, since you raise some excellent
> points Appi;
>
> 1-By way of a starting point, in the last major elections (December,)
> we had about 197 cives out of over 600 vote at all.
>
> 2-For the current Plebeian elections, it is doubtful that we will
> see even 100 legitimate votes. This is of course just my unofficial
> guess and opinion based on results I've seen posted from previous
> elections, but 100 or less seems to be a good number.
>
> So, given these numbers we can form at least a general opinion that
> there is a lack of truly active cives.
>
> So how do we correct it?
> Personally, I think correction needs to start in two places:
>
> 1-With the Paterfamilias/Materfamilias of each Gens. Like the rest
> of the citizen population, some are very active, caring and dedicated;
> some are not. Ultimately, it is up to them to ensure that the welfare
> and activity levels of their familias are benefiting the family AND
> Roma.
>
> 2-With the Provinces. It is on this level where I think we are seeing
> the most activity. With the recent appointment of so many excellent
> Propraetors, coupled with the increasing interest from cives in building
> community -grassroots interest in building a physical community is
> on the rise. As myself and others have pointed out many times on this
> and other lists -people have to start viewing Nova Roma as a *physical*
> community as opposed to a *virtual* one, before many will forge any
> strong bonds of kinship and involvement with the community as a whole.
> To use a macronational example, one can but look at the abysmal voter
> turn out for most elections here in the states. -And this is at the
> macronational
> level! Not a factor that bodes well for a micronation, where all the
> members are strictly volunteers.
>
> On the upside, I can but look at my Province, which has floundered and
> wallowed
> in
> obscuria for the past few years due to lack of participation and strong
> leadership. Now, we are blessed with an energetic, capable and dedicated
> Governor who is starting to bring people together. People that had not
> previously met except through e-mail are now meeting and talking
> on the phone regularly. -The same is happening in other provinces as well.
>
> This being said, I think we're on the right track as far as building
> a 'real world' community goes. However, we're still too widely and
> thinly distributed and our organization is still in the very early
> phases of its growth. So -it will likely take a few elections, a few
> more real-world meetings, a few more active Paters/Maters before we'll
> start seeing significant change.
>
> Just my .02 denarii.
>
> Bene valete,
> Oppius Flaccus Severus, Legatus America Boreoccidentalis Major
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: A. Cato [mailto:a.cato@--------]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 11:25 PM
> To: novaroma@--------
> Subject: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest
>
> Salve: I agree with your opinion Luci Corneli. But then the question arises;
> How
> are we to encourage more citizens to step forward and get involved in the
> administration of government, the Religio, etc., etc.? Among the pool of
> citizens Patrician and Plebian there must be a great many who have
> tremendous
> talents that they could offer. What is holding them back?
> I think that what is need is a brainstorming session to come up with
> some
> answers. How many citizens do you figure applied for citizenship, received
> their
> citizenship, and then forgot about Nova Roma? How many signed onto the main
> list
> and receive these E-mails?
> We must find a way to get more citizens involved in the affairs of Nova
> Roma. But how?
>
> Best Regards, Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> www.
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> **********************************************************************
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
> are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
> the Network Administrator on +61 3 9667 6699.
>
> This footnote also confirms that this email message has been scanned
> for the presence of computer viruses and inappropriate content.
> **********************************************************************
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: conflict of Interest: Apologies |
| From: |
"A. Cato" <a.cato@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 04:56:43 -0400 |
|
Salvete Omnes: Further to my last post, I want everyone to know that I had no feelings of dis-respect for anyone. I have always believed that all concerned and involved are Romans of the highest caliber, and I only spoke up out concern for, and best wishes for the future of Nova Roma. Those who are familiar with my posts over the past few years are completely aware of my feelings for Nova Roma. ... Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Activity (was Re: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest) |
| From: |
"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 11:16:31 +0200 |
|
Salvete Quirites,
I think this recent debate on the Tribunus Plebis election has shown two
things.
The first one is the involvement of the patricians in plebeian affairs. Just
as Praetor Maximus said that it doesn't fall within a Rogator's purview to
voice political opinions, it's equally not a patrician's business to decide
over what should happen in the Comitia Plebis Tributa, and what should not.
This is a cause of the plebeians.
The second thing is the participation level here in NR. We're faced with a
difficult situation; either to leave some offices unfilled, or either to
have persons hold multiple positions, which can and will lead to corruption
someday. I don't believe in that beautiful oath of office - good people
don't need it, bad people will break it. So what's the use, except for the
fact that it's a nice formality? I find that sometimes people need to be
protected from themselves, and certainly when they tend assume much
political power. This is not to say that this is in se bad, but it leads
more often to bad situations and power abuse than it does not. Such is man's
nature. The problem remains: how are citizens going to become more active?
As a possible solution to that problem, I think Oppius Flaccus has brought
forward some very good points of view, and I won't repeat them. An example,
though, of this crying lack of intrest is the fact that for the Cerealia
festival and the Romae Conditio festival, the Chorus Musarum hasn't had ONE
SINGLE submission of any piece of artwork. I find this truly disappointing
and discouraging.
Valete bene,
S. Apollonius Draco
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Comments on Conflict of Interest |
| From: |
"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 04:53:50 -0500 |
|
4 Apr 2001
Salve All
I go the bed with my sick 13 month old and I wake up to find a storm of emails about conflicts of interest. I can not help but feel that our Consul give bad advise to one of our Rotagors to become involved with this election, politically! That is to me a conflict of interest on the Rotagors part, and bad judgment on the Consuls. The Rotagor used a post sent in by the consul asking me about my feelings on the matter. I replied to the Consul's post but he has refused to reply to my answer, instead it would appear, he is trying to get other Patricians(the Rotagor) to get POLITICAL, and say I(and only me) am operating under a conflict of interest.!!.... I have noticed, happily, that only one Pleb spoke out giant me, and that rest of the comments came from Patricians, and one (I know of) was prompted by the Consul. Why does the Consul singling me what while ignoring the other? I was happy to see that the Rotagor saw the light, and apologized for his comments. At least HE recogn!
ized he made a mistake listening the Consuls advise! I hope the Consul see's that his judgment in asking a Rotagor to become politically involved in an election they are supposed to be monitoring was a bad move on his part, and does not speck well of this particular conduct while he is in office.
Vale
Quintus Sertorius
Queastor
Nova Roma
Propraetor
Canada Occidentalis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] ATTN (Religio Romana): Nonas Aprilias (April 5) |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" <amg@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 11:14:58 +0100 |
|
Salvete omnes
This is one of the dies nefasti (N), a day on which no legal action can take
place.
In this day, the aniversary of the dedication ("Dies Natalis") of the temple
of Fortuna Publica on the
Quirinal Hill is celebrated.
This is also the second day of the Megalesia in honour of Cybele.
Valete bene in Pace Deorum
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Egroup Challenge |
| From: |
"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 05:29:44 -0500 |
|
5 Apre 2001
Salve All
I recently sent an email to my Provincial egroup proudly proclaiming to them that our Provincial egroup was the largest in all NR! This is no longer the case, the largest Provincial egroup is now the one from America Austroccidentalis with 26 members! WE in Canada Occidentalis have only 23 on our egroup, but we only have a Provincial population of 21 though! I am now challenging these other Provincias, especially those with big Provincial populations, to join their respective Provincial egroups and lets get involved and knock off the current Champs America Austroccidentalis!
Vale
Quintus Sertorius
Queastor
Nova Roma
Propraetor
Canada Occidentalis
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
Join the egroup for Canada Occidentalis
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_CanOcc
Join the egroup for the Quintus Sertorius of Old Rome
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sertorii
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest |
| From: |
Kanat Elibol <kelibol@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:11:32 +0300 |
|
' I think what is needed is a brainstorming session to come
up with some answers.How
many citizens do you figure applied for citizenship,received their
citizenship,and then forgot
about Nova Roma?How many signed onto the main list and receive
these emails?
We must find a way to get more citizens involved in the
affairs of Nova roma.But how?
Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato '
Avete....
This is the question I've been asking to myself since I
first joined to the res publica!
And this is what I think we all should ask to ourselves!We
should find a way of
bringing the lost-citizens back among us...Now,what does it matter
if we have 800 or
1000 citizens since only 50 or 70 of them actually
participate...?We can boast with the
increasing number of the citizens...but can we deny the fact that
we're in need of some
fresh blood within the Nova Roma!
Now, we're talking about holding more than 'one 'office by
the same cive...if this
situation continues like this we'll be talking of holding more
than' three' offices by the
same cive and so on.....and than we'll have to face the
outcome...more conflicts and
never ending arguments!And don't get me wrong..I've nothing against
the candidates..
I'm not talking about 'Today' I'm talking about 'Tomorrow'!Of
course in the present
situation we're in those offices must be filled with the best men
we have...and both
candidates are honorable citizens with the good intentions for Nova
roma!And why there
isn't a single submission for the festivals...That's what I mean!
What to do?As you say IMHO ...we should reach the
less-active citizens...How?
By showing them that Nova Roma cares for them!By notifying them
about the coming
elections,about the qualifications of the candidates,about the
...well....about everything
happening in there res publica by creating an organization for this
purpose!
We shouldn't forget....the more you care for the people
the more they care for you!
These are the opinions of a less-active citizen...and I
think he must have some idea
of how to make the others ' more active'...:)..Though I'm sure that
these will all get lost
in the storm of the politics!For I can hear the thunder and
lightning ahead....
Valete bene...
Publius Sentius Rutilianus Dexion
|
| Subject: |
RE: Activity (was Re: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest) |
| From: |
"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 07:02:33 -0400 |
|
Salve,
<<The first one is the involvement of the patricians in plebeian affairs.
Just as Praetor Maximus said that it doesn't fall within a Rogator's purview
to voice political opinions, it's equally not a patrician's business to
decide over what should happen in the Comitia Plebis Tributa, and what
should not. This is a cause of the plebeians.>>
Oh come now! are we really going back to the days of "us versus them"??
May the Gods protect us from such things!! Insofar as the *only*
contribution from people so far (regardless of grouping) has been honest
opinion your comments above strike me as simply divisive.
As has been pointed out, the actions of the Tribunes affect ALL Nova Romans,
As such, ALL Nova Romans are entitled to an opinion and comments on the
subject. If the day comes when you catch Patricians sneaking into the
Rostra to vote for Tribune, perhaps *then* your objection will hold water.
In the meantime, I beg you........do not draw any further lines in the sand.
It is absolutely every Citizen's "business" to participate fully in Nova
Roma. You, in fact, bemoan a lack of participation later in this same post.
Participation means "full" participation under the law. The honest healthy
debate and discussion thus far regarding Tribunician candidates falls within
the arena of "hey I have a thought and I want to share it". Be grateful we
have people who care enough to make their voices heard, and worry less about
what "side" they are on.
Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Violation of Privacy |
| From: |
"A. Cato" <a.cato@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 07:25:58 -0400 |
|
Salvete Omnes: From the platform of the Rostrum I wish to address all Nova Romans. Along with my other error today, I have violated a most sacred trust. That of privately sent E-mail. In too much of a hurry, working with little sleep, and my mind on too many other things, I sent to the main list a private communication from our Noble Consul Flavius Vedius Germanicus. But the reason of it happening can be no excuse.
I apologize to all of Nova Roma, but especially to Flavius Vedius Germanicus, whose privacy I violated. There is no way I can forgive myself for this, and I would not blame the Consul if he did not forgive me. I would have a very difficult time forgiving anyone if the situation was reversed. After so long with Nova Roma, I fail to see how I could have made two terrible errors in one night. It boggles my mind.
I ask the Magistrates and Senate of Nova Roma to come to a decision as to whether or not I am worthy to be a citizen any longer or to decide a proper punishment to be served.
With all Respect, ... Ave atque vale, ... Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: Activity (was Re: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest) |
| From: |
"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 14:00:56 +0200 |
|
Salve Priscilla Vedia,
>
> <<The first one is the involvement of the patricians in plebeian affairs.
> Just as Praetor Maximus said that it doesn't fall within a Rogator's
purview
> to voice political opinions, it's equally not a patrician's business to
> decide over what should happen in the Comitia Plebis Tributa, and what
> should not. This is a cause of the plebeians.>>
>
> Oh come now! are we really going back to the days of "us versus them"??
> May the Gods protect us from such things!! Insofar as the *only*
> contribution from people so far (regardless of grouping) has been honest
> opinion your comments above strike me as simply divisive.
>
> As has been pointed out, the actions of the Tribunes affect ALL Nova
Romans,
> As such, ALL Nova Romans are entitled to an opinion and comments on the
> subject. If the day comes when you catch Patricians sneaking into the
> Rostra to vote for Tribune, perhaps *then* your objection will hold water.
>
> In the meantime, I beg you........do not draw any further lines in the
sand.
> It is absolutely every Citizen's "business" to participate fully in Nova
> Roma. You, in fact, bemoan a lack of participation later in this same
post.
> Participation means "full" participation under the law. The honest
healthy
> debate and discussion thus far regarding Tribunician candidates falls
within
> the arena of "hey I have a thought and I want to share it". Be grateful
we
> have people who care enough to make their voices heard, and worry less
about
> what "side" they are on.
I knew I'd get a comment like that thrown at me. If you continue to apply
your own logic further, and I would get full participation options here in
NR, then from now on I request to be privy to the Senate debates (and to
participate in them), and be made a patrician whilst remaining a plebeian.
I'm sure the Conscript Fathers wouldn't like the idea.
°I° am not the one who instituted the difference between plebeians and
patricians, and if it were up to me I'd get rid of them. But one has to
respect his own proper divisions he makes, and these divisons are NOT the
sort you were talking about. Why be allergic for that word anyway, if the
motto of the res publica is SPQR (The Senate and the People of Rome)? Were
the Senatores not part of the People then? I thought so. The day patricians
lose their extra century points and may elect a Tribunus Plebis, and the day
a plebeian can be named Dictator, perhaps then we can talk.
Vale bene,
Draco
|
| Subject: |
Re: Activity (was Re: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest) |
| From: |
"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 06:56:08 -0500 |
|
5 Apr 2001
Salve All
It was the Consul that first broth a possible division of the Orders;
FVG;
"despite the attempts of some to foster divisiveness between
Patrician and Plebeian."
I do not know where this came from, just who is Fostering divisiveness
between the Orders?
Vale
Quintus Sertorius
Queastor
Nova Roma
Propraetor
Canada Occidentalis
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
Join the egroup for Canada Occidentalis
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_CanOcc
Join the egroup for the Quintus Sertorius of Old Rome
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sertorii
|
| Subject: |
RE: Activity (was Re: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest) |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 08:18:59 -0400 |
|
Salve;
> -----Original Message-----
> From: S. Apollonius Draco [mailto:hendrik.meuleman@--------]
> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 08:01
>
> and the day a plebeian can be named Dictator, perhaps then we can talk.
Plebeians can already be appointed Dictator. Perhaps you should actually
read the Constitution you criticize so vociferously.
Vale,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul
email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Making SPQR Grow |
| From: |
"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 14:07:47 +0200 |
|
Salve Marce Antoni,
> And .... am also surprised that I read the other day that we have a number
> of provinces that currently have no Governor - does this mean that they
have
> no real focal point or leadership (no offence to any one who has a Senior
> appointment in these Provinces !!!) I see that one of these is Britain -
> where does this leave Britannia ...>>>???
Britannia did have a good governor, but he recently left NR.
Vale bene,
Draco
|
| Subject: |
Re: Activity (was Re: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest) |
| From: |
"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 14:26:54 +0200 |
|
Salve O Consul,
> > and the day a plebeian can be named Dictator, perhaps then we can talk.
>
> Plebeians can already be appointed Dictator. Perhaps you should actually
> read the Constitution you criticize so vociferously.
Ok; I was wrong in this one (but I °have° read the constitution, f.y.i).
However, it still doesn't break my other arguments.
Vale bene!
Draco
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Making SPQR Grow |
| From: |
"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 07:14:15 -0500 |
|
Titus Sertorius too, would have made a good Governor, but he will have to
wait two more months to met qualifications.
QS
----- Original Message -----
From: "S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 7:07 AM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Making SPQR Grow
> Salve Marce Antoni,
>
> > And .... am also surprised that I read the other day that we have a
number
> > of provinces that currently have no Governor - does this mean that they
> have
> > no real focal point or leadership (no offence to any one who has a
Senior
> > appointment in these Provinces !!!) I see that one of these is Britain -
> > where does this leave Britannia ...>>>???
>
> Britannia did have a good governor, but he recently left NR.
>
> Vale bene,
> Draco
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 08:44:05 -0400 |
|
Salve;
> -----Original Message-----
> From: QFabiusMax@-------- [mailto:QFabiusMax@--------]
> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 02:36
>
> As far as I can tell, Rogators are not supposed to make statements about
> elections.
May I ask whence you draw that conclusion? As far as I can tell, rogatores
are not supposed to run for office. I would appreciate it if you could point
out where they are forbidden to have and express opinions.
> You are to be totally impartial. Your job is to count votes and not make
> policy. Or confirm policy. That is left to the Senior Magistrates.
Do rogatores give up their rights of free speech when they assume office? I
must confess, given that Quintus Sertorius claims to be able to be impartial
while holding three potentially conflicting offices, I find it odd that you
do not extend the same benefit of the doubt to Cato, and believe that he can
voice an opinion and still fulfill his duties impartially.
> And if
> you stop to think about our formation of our new nation, the first year we
> had officials that held many offices since our available numbers were so
> small. Conflicts would eventually rise. That is why we take an oath. To
> keep us from putting our own interests beyond those of Romes'. If either
are
> elected, the Tribunate will come first, but since our current Tribune is
also
> a Senator and former Provincial magistrate, I see no conflict involved.
His being a past magistrate is simply irrelevant. And there is certainly no
conflict with being a Senator, I will grant you. How could a single Senator,
by virtue of that position, do anything to receive a tribunicial veto?
However, a sitting magistrate or governor is another story, and I still
believe it is improper to hold the Tribunate and another magistracy or
governorship. It is unfortunate indeed that the only candidates who stepped
forward to run do hold other offices, and thus could open themselves up to
such a conflict of interest.
Of course, that conflict could easily be avoided if either or both
candidates stated their intention to resign their other office(s) should
they be elected to the Tribunate. But hey, what does a Patrician such as
myself know about such things. If I can't vote for 'em, obviously the
Tribunes have no impact on me...
Next year in the Forum!
Vale,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul
email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
|
| Subject: |
RE: Activity (was Re: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest) |
| From: |
"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 08:50:49 -0400 |
|
Salve,
>>If you continue to apply your own logic further, and I would get full
participation options here in NR, then from now on I request to be privy to
the Senate debates (and to participate in them), and be made a patrician
whilst remaining a plebeian.>>
Interesting. You seem to have missed my use of the phrase "participate
fully UNDER THE LAW" <emphasis mine>. Having and sharing opinions is the
right....and duty....of every citizen. Participation in the Senate is not.
I say again, for you to suggest that Patricians not share opinion on matters
Plebeian is unwarranted and unnecessarily divisive......most especially as
you complain about a lack of participation in Nova Roma. As for your
sentiments about division, we simply disagree. I see the two social groups
as a nod to history, not an excuse to "not play well with others".
Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 09:01:45 -0400 |
|
Salvete;
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Oppius Flaccus Severus [mailto:oppiusflaccus@--------]
> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 02:30
>
> It is not necessarily 'dangerous,' in and of itself to have
> two fine and dedicated Plebeian candidates such as Q. Sertorius
> et L. Pompeius step before us.
Please understand, my concerns are based completely on propriety, and have
nothing to do with the specific candidates themselves.
> The positions that each holds stands
> little chance of official conflict. It would be quite a different
> issue; say if one of them was Praetor Urbanus, Censor or Consul.
I disagree. It is completely possible for a provincial governor (for
example) to attempt to act beyond the boundaries of his or her authority as
defined by the Constitution. The only immediate check on such an act would
be the Tribunician veto. (Unless you are saying that the Senate should step
in and micro-manage the provincia, passing Senatus consulta every time a
governor does something they don't like; something I am quite opposed to,
myself.)
> One must also realize, that unfortunately due to our current
> size and severe lack of active cives, we can ill afford to continually
> try and restrict the pool of candidates on the one hand, while
> criticizing those caring and dedicated office holders that step forward
yet
> again to offer noble service to our Respublica.
I must ask; who criticized anyone? I merely questioned the propriety of a
Tribune holding other offices which may pose a conflict of interest. Indeed,
I went out of my way to say my question was not adversarial. Quintus
Sertorius has chosen to read it as an attack upon himself anyway. That's his
problem, not mine.
> This issue also hearkens back to the debates that occurred during
> the 'Cursus Honorum' discussions. If you remember from the time,
> there was quite a bit of argument, discussion and dissension over
> any officially instituted Cursus at this early stage of Roma's
> growth for precisely this reason and the type of situation that
> we now see before us.
>
> However, since we have seen fit to pass the Cursus,
Actually, the law that was passed was a severely limited version of the
ancient Cursus Honorum. A first tentative baby-step, as it were, towards its
eventual full implementation years from now.
> AND since
> we suffer a lack of dedicated cives given our current citizenship
> numbers, then we have to deal with it when quality candidates
> that also meet our legal requirements step forward to run for
> office.
No one, least of all I, am saying there is any legal prohibition (yet)
against a sitting Tribune also holding another magistracy or governorship.
However, what is legal is not always what is right, and to do what is not
right in the name of political expediency is questionable. We have
progressed far beyond the stage where there were literally twenty Citizens,
and we had to triple- and quadruple-up on offices. ESPECIALLY an office so
sensitive and vital as Tribune.
> Not a perfect situation to be sure;
> certainly one that will change in time as we grow and mature
> as a Respublica -but for now, the situation is what it is.
> Quintus Sertorius and Lucius Pompeius are both Romans of the
> highest caliber and we are indeed blessed to have them step
> forward on our behalf.
Indeed. And as men of such fine caliber, doubtless they will be willing to
set aside their potential conflict of interest and offer to give up their
other office(s) if elected to the office of Tribune.
Next year in the Forum!
Valete,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul
email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest |
| From: |
"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 07:52:27 -0500 |
|
5 Apr 2001
Salve Consul
FVG;
"Indeed. And as men of such fine caliber, doubtless they will be willing to
set aside their potential conflict of interest and offer to give up their
other office(s) if elected to the office of Tribune."
I shall weigh these words heavily Sir as they carry logic.
Vale
Quintus Sertorius
Queastor
Nova Roma
Propraetor
Canada Occidentalis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 8:01 AM
Subject: RE: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest
> Salvete;
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Oppius Flaccus Severus [mailto:oppiusflaccus@--------]
> > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 02:30
> >
> > It is not necessarily 'dangerous,' in and of itself to have
> > two fine and dedicated Plebeian candidates such as Q. Sertorius
> > et L. Pompeius step before us.
>
> Please understand, my concerns are based completely on propriety, and have
> nothing to do with the specific candidates themselves.
>
> > The positions that each holds stands
> > little chance of official conflict. It would be quite a different
> > issue; say if one of them was Praetor Urbanus, Censor or Consul.
>
> I disagree. It is completely possible for a provincial governor (for
> example) to attempt to act beyond the boundaries of his or her authority
as
> defined by the Constitution. The only immediate check on such an act would
> be the Tribunician veto. (Unless you are saying that the Senate should
step
> in and micro-manage the provincia, passing Senatus consulta every time a
> governor does something they don't like; something I am quite opposed to,
> myself.)
>
> > One must also realize, that unfortunately due to our current
> > size and severe lack of active cives, we can ill afford to continually
> > try and restrict the pool of candidates on the one hand, while
> > criticizing those caring and dedicated office holders that step forward
> yet
> > again to offer noble service to our Respublica.
>
> I must ask; who criticized anyone? I merely questioned the propriety of a
> Tribune holding other offices which may pose a conflict of interest.
Indeed,
> I went out of my way to say my question was not adversarial. Quintus
> Sertorius has chosen to read it as an attack upon himself anyway. That's
his
> problem, not mine.
>
> > This issue also hearkens back to the debates that occurred during
> > the 'Cursus Honorum' discussions. If you remember from the time,
> > there was quite a bit of argument, discussion and dissension over
> > any officially instituted Cursus at this early stage of Roma's
> > growth for precisely this reason and the type of situation that
> > we now see before us.
> >
> > However, since we have seen fit to pass the Cursus,
>
> Actually, the law that was passed was a severely limited version of the
> ancient Cursus Honorum. A first tentative baby-step, as it were, towards
its
> eventual full implementation years from now.
>
> > AND since
> > we suffer a lack of dedicated cives given our current citizenship
> > numbers, then we have to deal with it when quality candidates
> > that also meet our legal requirements step forward to run for
> > office.
>
> No one, least of all I, am saying there is any legal prohibition (yet)
> against a sitting Tribune also holding another magistracy or governorship.
> However, what is legal is not always what is right, and to do what is not
> right in the name of political expediency is questionable. We have
> progressed far beyond the stage where there were literally twenty
Citizens,
> and we had to triple- and quadruple-up on offices. ESPECIALLY an office so
> sensitive and vital as Tribune.
>
> > Not a perfect situation to be sure;
> > certainly one that will change in time as we grow and mature
> > as a Respublica -but for now, the situation is what it is.
> > Quintus Sertorius and Lucius Pompeius are both Romans of the
> > highest caliber and we are indeed blessed to have them step
> > forward on our behalf.
>
> Indeed. And as men of such fine caliber, doubtless they will be willing to
> set aside their potential conflict of interest and offer to give up their
> other office(s) if elected to the office of Tribune.
>
> Next year in the Forum!
>
> Valete,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> Consul
>
> email: germanicus@--------
> AIM: Flavius Vedius
> www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] a little reminder |
| From: |
=?iso-8859-1?q?Tiberius=20Apollonius=20Cicatrix?= <consulromanus@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 06:10:34 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Salve
I'm not a citizen for a long time, but I would like to
remind all those people arguing about small topics to
something I read on the website: In the chapter about
Roman virtues I read CONCORDIA, harmony between the
people of Nova Roma. This is a virtue which is hardly
needed if the organisation of Nova Roma wants to work
properly. And certainly in reliance to the real world
idea.
If the Roman virtues do not count for certain people,
or they make them not count for themselves, they
should not belong to Nova Roma.
This is something that was on my mind and I had to say
it. It is certainly not meant as a personal attack on
someone, but just a thought of me.
Vale bene
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
=====
"De te autem, Catilina, cum quiescunt, probant; cum patiuntur, decernunt; cum tacent, clamant." (M. Tullius Cicero: In Catilinam I, 20)
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] RE: Comments on Conflict of Interest |
| From: |
"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 09:07:47 -0400 |
|
Salve,
It appears our Tribunician Candidate Sertorius has forgotten that "life
happens" outside of Nova Roma. His allegation that Consul Vedius has
"refused" to reply to him is inflammatory and untrue. Speaking as the main
"distraction" in the Consul's life right now, I can assure all cives that
Consul Vedius has had precious little time to eat and sleep, let alone sneak
around trying to "single out" Sertorius.
The reason? Oh yes.......I may have failed to mention that I am 10 days away
from my due date with our first child and am having pre-labor contractions
that have created a wee bit of chaos in our household as of late. I daresay
*that* has pre-occupied the good Consul, not some imaginary
vendetta against Sertorius (or anyone else for that matter.
I must say, Patrician that I may be, that Sertorius' knee-jerk reaction here
concerns me. Rather than make any effort to contact the Consul and inquire
about a lack of reply, he jumps to the conclusion that "ah-HA....a
conspiracy must be afoot....among the Patricians no less!'
Oh please! I will say openly to Sertorius what I said openly to
Draco......enough with the divisiveness!!! On the one hand you bemoan how
few people in Nova Roma even bother to lift their heads and make their
presence known, and in the SAME breath you complain because some of those
voicing an opinion are Patricians. As I said to Draco as well.........if
the day comes when you catch any of us Patricians sneaking into the Rostra
to try and vote illegally, please raise a huge fuss. Until then, as long as
Patrician contributions amount to opinion and discussion, be grateful we
have cives who care enough to be heard on the subject, regardless of
opinion.
As far as the Consul having started any division.....I beg your pardon? He
raised the question of *whether* there would be any conflict, or appearance
of such, in a Governor and Quaestor also serving as Tribune, since a
tribune *could* conceivably be called upon to veto the action of a Governor.
In point of fact, if you go back and read the original post again, you will
see that the Consul specifically stated he was bringing it up as a point of
discussion, NOT to be adversarial. That you ignored that, and took some
imaginary conspiracy and are running with it is disturbing on many levels.
The first mention I have noted (and already commented on) about patricians
basically "butting out" of Plebian business comes from Draco and, as I said,
my feelings on that position have already been made elsewhere.
In closing, I think Sertorius owes our Consul an apology for his allegation.
It was unnecessary, untrue and completely unfounded. All of which Sertorius
would have known had he bothered to check. Trying to tie any opinion he
doesn't like to "Patricians led by the Consul" is outrageous and hardly the
kind of "conspiracy theory" thought process that is good for Nova Roma.
Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena
|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 09:13:16 -0400 |
|
Salvete;
> -----Original Message-----
> From: marcusaemiliusscaurus@--------
[mailto:marcusaemiliusscaurus@--------]
> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 02:06
>
> I think I agree with what Sulla has said. A Tribune is meant to
> protect the plebs if their rights are threatened. I can't think of
> any situation off the top of my head where a quaestor could take the
> rights of the plebeians away.
I disagree. In Nova Roma, the job is to protect not just the Plebeians, but
all Citizens from violations of the Constitution. The honor of electing such
an important magistrate falls to the Plebeians, but that shouldn't be taken
to mean that the Tribunes only serve the Plebeians' interests.
As far as a Quaestor not being the subject of a Tribunicial veto, such a
scenario is easy to envision. Simply by spending money not authorized by the
Senate, a Quaestor would be violating the Constitution, and thus his action
should, properly, be the subject of Tribunicial intercessio. However, could
a person who, as Quaestor, felt justified in performing such an act, then be
counted on to turn around and realize its illegality and support a veto? I
think we can all see the dangers inherent in the possible conflict of
interest...
Next year in the Forum!
Valete,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul
email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] Violation of Privacy |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 09:14:45 -0400 |
|
Salvete;
I just wanted to let Cato know that I absolutely accept his apology, and
harbor no ill-will towards him whatsoever. He is certainly worthy to
continue as both magistrate and citizen, as far as I am concerned.
Next year in the Forum!
Valete,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul
email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
> -----Original Message-----
> From: A. Cato [mailto:a.cato@--------]
> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 07:26
> To: novaroma@--------
> Subject: [novaroma] Violation of Privacy
>
>
> Salvete Omnes: From the platform of the Rostrum I wish to
> address all Nova Romans. Along with my other error today, I have
> violated a most sacred trust. That of privately sent E-mail. In
> too much of a hurry, working with little sleep, and my mind on
> too many other things, I sent to the main list a private
> communication from our Noble Consul Flavius Vedius Germanicus.
> But the reason of it happening can be no excuse.
>
> I apologize to all of Nova Roma, but especially to Flavius
> Vedius Germanicus, whose privacy I violated. There is no way I
> can forgive myself for this, and I would not blame the Consul if
> he did not forgive me. I would have a very difficult time
> forgiving anyone if the situation was reversed. After so long
> with Nova Roma, I fail to see how I could have made two terrible
> errors in one night. It boggles my mind.
> I ask the Magistrates and Senate of Nova Roma to come to a
> decision as to whether or not I am worthy to be a citizen any
> longer or to decide a proper punishment to be served.
> With all Respect, ... Ave atque vale, ... Appius
> Tullius Marcellus Cato
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] Making SPQR Grow |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 09:19:14 -0400 |
|
Salve
> -----Original Message-----
> From: S. Apollonius Draco [mailto:hendrik.meuleman@--------]
> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 08:08
>
> Britannia did have a good governor, but he recently left NR.
One wonders if a "good governor" would have left in the first place.
Vale,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul
email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
|
| Subject: |
RE: Activity (was Re: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest) |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 09:17:46 -0400 |
|
Salve
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Quintus Sertorius [mailto:quintus-sertorius@--------]
> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 07:56
>
> It was the Consul that first broth a possible division of the Orders;
>
> FVG;
> "despite the attempts of some to foster divisiveness between
> Patrician and Plebeian."
>
> I do not know where this came from, just who is Fostering divisiveness
> between the Orders?
Actually that was a reference to last year's election; it wasn't a reference
to the current discussion (although it does seem to be raising its ugly head
again...).
Vale,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul
email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Pax Romanitas quirites! |
| From: |
Craig Stevenson <dougies@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 05 Apr 2001 22:53:22 +0930 |
|
Ave all,
I agree totally with the comments of Tiberius Apollonius. Isn't it high time we left these petty sqaubles behind us. We have just emerged
from a period where resignations were abundant for some of the same things we see here. I urge you as one Roman, can't we please put aside
the petty sqaubling, and forgive and forget. I implore you, please, pax quirites! Let us let bygones be bygones, and start anew, and bring
ourselves down to the level of savages. We are better than that, and let us prove it by letting sleeping dogs lie!
Thankyou for listening. I echo only the wise words of Cornelius Moravius Laurentibus:
"VOTING IS NOT ONLY A RIGHT, IT IS ALSO A DUTY!"
Valete bene all,
Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] RE: Comments on Conflict of Interest |
| From: |
"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 08:13:30 -0500 |
|
I will agree this medium sometimes demands more questions then it answers,
and to start dissecting every post would not be beneficial to anyone, let
alone NR. Given the work load I SEE from the Consul, I understand that his
output is Great to say the least. Therefore, I offer Pax for the good of
all. I will apologize to the Consul for my eluding to any possible
conspiracy. There has been enough eluding all ready. His comments, to me are
always welcome, as they carry wisdom and logic.... But this is an ELECTION
campaign! Therefore, all that get involved must know that in the heated
debate you may get burned. I at no time thought the Consul did not like me,
as I could not come up with a reason for him to. BUT to hold more than one
office is not new, and given the Consul only makes his moves after careful
consideration, I wondered at his presentation of this issue, so I attempted
to engage him in debate about it. In placing my name for Tribune, I honestly
did not think this issue would be a problem, I still do not. But, I will
consider the suggestion the resign my other offices should I be elected.
QS
----- Original Message -----
From: "JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 8:07 AM
Subject: [novaroma] RE: Comments on Conflict of Interest
> Salve,
>
> It appears our Tribunician Candidate Sertorius has forgotten that "life
> happens" outside of Nova Roma. His allegation that Consul Vedius has
> "refused" to reply to him is inflammatory and untrue. Speaking as the main
> "distraction" in the Consul's life right now, I can assure all cives that
> Consul Vedius has had precious little time to eat and sleep, let alone
sneak
> around trying to "single out" Sertorius.
>
> The reason? Oh yes.......I may have failed to mention that I am 10 days
away
> from my due date with our first child and am having pre-labor contractions
> that have created a wee bit of chaos in our household as of late. I
daresay
> *that* has pre-occupied the good Consul, not some imaginary
> vendetta against Sertorius (or anyone else for that matter.
>
> I must say, Patrician that I may be, that Sertorius' knee-jerk reaction
here
> concerns me. Rather than make any effort to contact the Consul and
inquire
> about a lack of reply, he jumps to the conclusion that "ah-HA....a
> conspiracy must be afoot....among the Patricians no less!'
>
> Oh please! I will say openly to Sertorius what I said openly to
> Draco......enough with the divisiveness!!! On the one hand you bemoan how
> few people in Nova Roma even bother to lift their heads and make their
> presence known, and in the SAME breath you complain because some of those
> voicing an opinion are Patricians. As I said to Draco as well.........if
> the day comes when you catch any of us Patricians sneaking into the Rostra
> to try and vote illegally, please raise a huge fuss. Until then, as long
as
> Patrician contributions amount to opinion and discussion, be grateful we
> have cives who care enough to be heard on the subject, regardless of
> opinion.
>
> As far as the Consul having started any division.....I beg your pardon?
He
> raised the question of *whether* there would be any conflict, or
appearance
> of such, in a Governor and Quaestor also serving as Tribune, since a
> tribune *could* conceivably be called upon to veto the action of a
Governor.
> In point of fact, if you go back and read the original post again, you
will
> see that the Consul specifically stated he was bringing it up as a point
of
> discussion, NOT to be adversarial. That you ignored that, and took some
> imaginary conspiracy and are running with it is disturbing on many levels.
> The first mention I have noted (and already commented on) about patricians
> basically "butting out" of Plebian business comes from Draco and, as I
said,
> my feelings on that position have already been made elsewhere.
>
> In closing, I think Sertorius owes our Consul an apology for his
allegation.
> It was unnecessary, untrue and completely unfounded. All of which
Sertorius
> would have known had he bothered to check. Trying to tie any opinion he
> doesn't like to "Patricians led by the Consul" is outrageous and hardly
the
> kind of "conspiracy theory" thought process that is good for Nova Roma.
>
> Vale,
> Priscilla Vedia Serena
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] RE: Comments on Conflict of Interest |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 09:39:04 -0400 |
|
Salvete
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Quintus Sertorius [mailto:quintus-sertorius@--------]
> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 09:14
>
> I will agree this medium sometimes demands more questions then it answers,
> and to start dissecting every post would not be beneficial to anyone, let
> alone NR. Given the work load I SEE from the Consul, I understand that his
> output is Great to say the least.
There should be a saying; don't judge a man until you've waded through his
Inbox...
(I'm averaging 150+ emails a day, just on NR-related stuff.)
> Therefore, I offer Pax for the good of all. I will apologize to the Consul
> for my eluding to any possible
> conspiracy. There has been enough eluding all ready.
I quite agree, accept your apology, and agree that the issue has been, shall
we say, discussed enough for the moment. :-)
> His comments, to me are
> always welcome, as they carry wisdom and logic.... But this is an
ELECTION
> campaign! Therefore, all that get involved must know that in the heated
> debate you may get burned. I at no time thought the Consul did not like
me,
> as I could not come up with a reason for him to. BUT to hold more than one
> office is not new, and given the Consul only makes his moves after careful
> consideration, I wondered at his presentation of this issue, so I
attempted
> to engage him in debate about it. In placing my name for Tribune, I
honestly
> did not think this issue would be a problem, I still do not. But, I will
> consider the suggestion the resign my other offices should I be elected.
Pax, flexibility, and wisdom indeed. :-)
Now, then, let's move on to some more productive matters. I'll not be
posting any more on this thread, methinks.
Next year in the Forum!
Vale,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul
email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] More Pleb Votes Needed |
| From: |
"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 08:37:08 -0500 |
|
5 April 2001
Salve All
This is an appeal to all Plebeian voters. Please get out and vote!!!.. The best chance for every individual citizen to have a direct say in how they are governed, is though our elective process! So, get out and vote!! This is a major problem with us, we do not participate enough in our own Elections! Those of us who have already voted, contact others to see if they to have voted and to have them pass this info along. Here is the link once more; http://www.--------/cursus_honorum/voting/ . If there are any questions concerning voter codes, please contact the Censors at; (censors@--------) . Forward this email on to any citizens you feel have not voted. Thank you.
Vale
Quintus Sertorius
Queastor
Nova Roma
Propraetor
Canada Occidentalis
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
Join the egroup for Canada Occidentalis
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_CanOcc
Join the egroup for the Quintus Sertorius of Old Rome
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sertorii
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] Conflict of Interest |
| From: |
Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 09:08:25 -0500 (CDT) |
|
On Thu, 5 Apr 2001, Mark A Bird wrote:
> I therefore submit that you will need to support Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
> in the election for Tribune of The Plebs, due to the opposing candidates
> perceived conflict. Just pointing this out - or am I missing something..
>
> Marcus Sentius Claudius
But *both* candidates are provincial propraetors already, thus the
exact same conflict is there.
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Consular Edicta |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 10:11:22 -0400 |
|
Flavius Vedius Germanicus novaromanis S.P.D.
It is with great pleasure that I hereby issue the following edicta
concerning two vacant governorships. Both measures are taken at this time
because the calendar does not permit the Senate itself to vote on these
matters, and it was felt that swift action was warranted.
I. Pompeia Cornelia Strabo is hereby appointed governor pro tem of the
Canada Orientalis provincia. She shall hold this position with the full
powers, rights, and responsibilities of governor until the conclusion of the
next formal vote of the Senate, at which time her appointment as governor
shall be considered by that August Body.
II. Titus Sertorius Albinus is hereby appointed governor pro tem of the
Britannia provincia. He shall hold this position with the full powers,
rights, and responsibilities of governor, with the exception that Marcus
Minucius Audens shall act in the capacity of provincial Advisor, and shall
be consulted on actions the governor pro tem shall take. Six months from
now, or sooner should the provincial Advisor deem it suitable and so
recommend to the Senate, his appointment as governor shall be considered by
that August Body in its next formal vote.
Vale,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul
email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Sertorii Proud! |
| From: |
"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 09:08:29 -0500 |
|
5 Apr 2001
Salve All
This a proud day for the Sertorii, as one of my Gens, Titus, will carry on as Governor of one of the most important posting in NR.... The Propreatorship of Britannia!! Congratulations, Titus! Congratulations to Pompeia, you were never NOT the Governor of your Provincia!
Vale
Quintus Sertorius
Queastor
Nova Roma
Propraetor
Canada Occidentalis
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
Join the egroup for Canada Occidentalis
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_CanOcc
Join the egroup for the Quintus Sertorius of Old Rome
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sertorii
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Violation of Privacy, Conflict of Interest, etc., blah, blah |
| From: |
Ira Adams <iadams@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 09:34:24 -0500 |
|
Dear Appius Tullius
Please don't fall all over yourself trying to be PC and keep everybody
happy with you. You have done absolutely nothing wrong with respect to
the concerns you voiced about *a principle* relevant to the current
election. You did *not* take the side of either candidate, which would
have been improper. You simply (and appropriately) raised the question of
whether there is a problem in having people serve in multiple offices
where their responsibilities and powers might conflict. The only thing
that concerns me with respect to your statements there is that you said
that you won't vote because you are a rogator. I say that you have a duty
to cast your vote just as does every other citizen. There is no conflict
in you going to the cista, casting your own vote, and later counting the
votes cast by all of us. If anyone sees a way that this could be a
conflict, I would like to hear it explained.
You are not disenfranchised by serving as Rogator. You simply must not do
or say anything to suggest that you favor one candidate over others.
The only breach of etiquette you made was in reposting Germanicus'
private note to you. Obviously I cannot speak for Flavius Vedius, but I
doubt that he is upset about it. We all make mistakes from time to time.
It doesn't matter if there are people who disagree with what you say
here. There will *always* be people who will disagree with *whatever* any
of us says here. Just wait until you serve as a Tribune or a Consul and
you'll experience the times when *everyone* disagrees with you! That
doesn't matter. You are the one serving, and performing your duty. It's
easy for the others to sit back at their keyboards and peck at you.
Let me thank you for serving in your office - something that the majority
of our citizens choose not to do. Let me encourage you to speak up
whenever you have a concern about an issue of principle or policy. If you
are wrong, you may trust that someone here will point it out to you. Thus
we all grow in wisdom (except, of course, for a few of us who were born
knowing it all).
Vale,
Lucius Sergius Australicus Obstinatus
On 4/5/01 6:25 AM A. Cato (a.cato@--------) wrote:
>Salvete Omnes: From the platform of the Rostrum I wish to address all
>Nova Romans. Along with my other error today, I have violated a most
>sacred trust. That of privately sent E-mail. In too much of a hurry,
>working with little sleep, and my mind on too many other things, I sent to
>the main list a private communication from our Noble Consul Flavius Vedius
>Germanicus. But the reason of it happening can be no excuse.
>
> I apologize to all of Nova Roma, but especially to Flavius Vedius
>Germanicus, whose privacy I violated. There is no way I can forgive myself
>for this, and I would not blame the Consul if he did not forgive me. I
>would have a very difficult time forgiving anyone if the situation was
>reversed. After so long with Nova Roma, I fail to see how I could have
>made two terrible errors in one night. It boggles my mind.
> I ask the Magistrates and Senate of Nova Roma to come to a decision
>as to whether or not I am worthy to be a citizen any longer or to decide a
>proper punishment to be served.
> With all Respect, ... Ave atque vale, ... Appius Tullius
>Marcellus Cato
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Activity (was Re: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest) |
| From: |
Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 09:39:53 -0500 (CDT) |
|
On Thu, 5 Apr 2001, Quintus Sertorius wrote:
> FVG;
> "despite the attempts of some to foster divisiveness between
> Patrician and Plebeian."
>
> I do not know where this came from, just who is Fostering divisiveness
> between the Orders?
That would be those who try to say that patricians shouldn't even be
allowed to comment on plebeian elections and issues.
---
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator
|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] Consular Edicta |
| From: |
"Oppius Flaccus Severus" <oppiusflaccus@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 07:39:10 -0700 |
|
Salvete Quiritibus!
Wonderful news! Congratulations Pompeia on the reestablishment
of your successful provincial administration and to Titus
Sertorius for your appointment in Britannia!
Bene valete,
Oppius Flaccus Severus, Legatus America Boreoccidentalis Major
-----Original Message-----
From: Flavius Vedius Germanicus [mailto:germanicus@--------]
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 7:11 AM
To: novaroma@--------; novaromaannounce@--------
Subject: [novaroma] Consular Edicta
Flavius Vedius Germanicus novaromanis S.P.D.
It is with great pleasure that I hereby issue the following edicta
concerning two vacant governorships. Both measures are taken at this time
because the calendar does not permit the Senate itself to vote on these
matters, and it was felt that swift action was warranted.
I. Pompeia Cornelia Strabo is hereby appointed governor pro tem of the
Canada Orientalis provincia. She shall hold this position with the full
powers, rights, and responsibilities of governor until the conclusion of the
next formal vote of the Senate, at which time her appointment as governor
shall be considered by that August Body.
<snipped>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Activity (was Re: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest) |
| From: |
"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 16:45:37 +0200 |
|
Salvete Marce Octavi et alii,
> On Thu, 5 Apr 2001, Quintus Sertorius wrote:
>
> > FVG;
> > "despite the attempts of some to foster divisiveness between
> > Patrician and Plebeian."
> >
> > I do not know where this came from, just who is Fostering divisiveness
> > between the Orders?
>
> That would be those who try to say that patricians shouldn't even be
> allowed to comment on plebeian elections and issues.
I didn't say that. It's every citizens's right (and perhaps duty?)
regardless of class, to comment this. I felt that Quintus Sertorius'
reputation was being unnecessarily damaged, even though both candidates are
Propraetores (which was later noticed), and that was done by individuals who
aren't even allowed to vote in those plebeian elections by those very laws
they wrote themselves. A paranoid voice in the back of my head tells me that
this was a way of steering the elections.
Valete bene!
Draco
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Consular Edicta |
| From: |
"Pompeia Cornelia" <scriba_forum@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 05 Apr 2001 14:51:25 -0000 |
|
Pompeia Cornelia Strabo Consul Flavi Vedi Germanice et Populus S.P.D.
Magna Gratias, Consul. Magna Gratias.
Further, my congratulations to Titus Sertorius Albinius, now Propraetor pro
tempore provincia Britannia.
>From: "Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: <novaroma@-------->, <novaromaannounce@-------->
>Subject: [novaroma] Consular Edicta
>Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 10:11:22 -0400
>
>Flavius Vedius Germanicus novaromanis S.P.D.
>
>It is with great pleasure that I hereby issue the following edicta
>concerning two vacant governorships. Both measures are taken at this time
>because the calendar does not permit the Senate itself to vote on these
>matters, and it was felt that swift action was warranted.
>
>I. Pompeia Cornelia Strabo is hereby appointed governor pro tem of the
>Canada Orientalis provincia. She shall hold this position with the full
>powers, rights, and responsibilities of governor until the conclusion of
>the
>next formal vote of the Senate, at which time her appointment as governor
>shall be considered by that August Body.
>
>II. Titus Sertorius Albinus is hereby appointed governor pro tem of the
>Britannia provincia. He shall hold this position with the full powers,
>rights, and responsibilities of governor, with the exception that Marcus
>Minucius Audens shall act in the capacity of provincial Advisor, and shall
>be consulted on actions the governor pro tem shall take. Six months from
>now, or sooner should the provincial Advisor deem it suitable and so
>recommend to the Senate, his appointment as governor shall be considered by
>that August Body in its next formal vote.
>
>Vale,
>
>Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
>Consul
>
>email: germanicus@--------
>AIM: Flavius Vedius
>www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
>
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Violation of Privacy, Conflict of Interest, etc., blah, blah |
| From: |
"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 09:39:36 -0500 |
|
As the last Tribune you would know more about what you say than anyone.
After your term in office as Tribune, you have set the standard for Tribunes
of this year. I have always read your posts as they many times broth my head
out of the clouds and made me see the reality of lonely office, yours was a
hard Tribunite. I say to you Sir, and all NR, I will, should I win office,
move the Tribunite forward, as you have. I plan to be the peoples Tribune,
active always. What I want is for myself to work in the grass roots of our
cyber connectivity to keep close to the people. I have not approached
Tribune Lubienus other than to ask for voter turn out, but should I be
elected, I pledge to work closely with the other Tribune, as this is only
way we can exercise to full potential of the Office. This was a luxury you
did not have while in office, as we all know. Anyway thank you once more for
your comments.
QS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ira Adams" <iadams@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 9:34 AM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Violation of Privacy, Conflict of Interest, etc.,
blah, blah
>
> Dear Appius Tullius
>
> Please don't fall all over yourself trying to be PC and keep everybody
> happy with you. You have done absolutely nothing wrong with respect to
> the concerns you voiced about *a principle* relevant to the current
> election. You did *not* take the side of either candidate, which would
> have been improper. You simply (and appropriately) raised the question of
> whether there is a problem in having people serve in multiple offices
> where their responsibilities and powers might conflict. The only thing
> that concerns me with respect to your statements there is that you said
> that you won't vote because you are a rogator. I say that you have a duty
> to cast your vote just as does every other citizen. There is no conflict
> in you going to the cista, casting your own vote, and later counting the
> votes cast by all of us. If anyone sees a way that this could be a
> conflict, I would like to hear it explained.
>
> You are not disenfranchised by serving as Rogator. You simply must not do
> or say anything to suggest that you favor one candidate over others.
>
> The only breach of etiquette you made was in reposting Germanicus'
> private note to you. Obviously I cannot speak for Flavius Vedius, but I
> doubt that he is upset about it. We all make mistakes from time to time.
>
> It doesn't matter if there are people who disagree with what you say
> here. There will *always* be people who will disagree with *whatever* any
> of us says here. Just wait until you serve as a Tribune or a Consul and
> you'll experience the times when *everyone* disagrees with you! That
> doesn't matter. You are the one serving, and performing your duty. It's
> easy for the others to sit back at their keyboards and peck at you.
>
> Let me thank you for serving in your office - something that the majority
> of our citizens choose not to do. Let me encourage you to speak up
> whenever you have a concern about an issue of principle or policy. If you
> are wrong, you may trust that someone here will point it out to you. Thus
> we all grow in wisdom (except, of course, for a few of us who were born
> knowing it all).
>
> Vale,
>
> Lucius Sergius Australicus Obstinatus
>
>
> On 4/5/01 6:25 AM A. Cato (a.cato@--------) wrote:
>
> >Salvete Omnes: From the platform of the Rostrum I wish to address all
> >Nova Romans. Along with my other error today, I have violated a most
> >sacred trust. That of privately sent E-mail. In too much of a hurry,
> >working with little sleep, and my mind on too many other things, I sent
to
> >the main list a private communication from our Noble Consul Flavius
Vedius
> >Germanicus. But the reason of it happening can be no excuse.
> >
> > I apologize to all of Nova Roma, but especially to Flavius Vedius
> >Germanicus, whose privacy I violated. There is no way I can forgive
myself
> >for this, and I would not blame the Consul if he did not forgive me. I
> >would have a very difficult time forgiving anyone if the situation was
> >reversed. After so long with Nova Roma, I fail to see how I could have
> >made two terrible errors in one night. It boggles my mind.
> > I ask the Magistrates and Senate of Nova Roma to come to a decision
> >as to whether or not I am worthy to be a citizen any longer or to decide
a
> >proper punishment to be served.
> > With all Respect, ... Ave atque vale, ... Appius Tullius
> >Marcellus Cato
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] RE: Comments on Conflict of Interest |
| From: |
"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 16:59:02 +0200 |
|
Salvete!
Priscilla Vedia scripsit:
> Oh please! I will say openly to Sertorius what I said openly to
> Draco......enough with the divisiveness!!! On the one hand you bemoan how
> few people in Nova Roma even bother to lift their heads and make their
> presence known, and in the SAME breath you complain because some of those
> voicing an opinion are Patricians. As I said to Draco as well.........if
> the day comes when you catch any of us Patricians sneaking into the Rostra
> to try and vote illegally, please raise a huge fuss. Until then, as long
as
> Patrician contributions amount to opinion and discussion, be grateful we
> have cives who care enough to be heard on the subject, regardless of
> opinion.
>
Indeed, patricians aren't voting in this election. But to me it seems like
they're standing at the doorway of the voting office "voicing their
opinion". As far as I'm concerned patricians and plebeians cause a lot of
trouble, whether or not imaginary. That's why I find this distinction
unnecessary. No distinction, no division.
frater Tiberius scripsit:
> I'm not a citizen for a long time, but I would like to
> remind all those people arguing about small topics to
> something I read on the website: In the chapter about
> Roman virtues I read CONCORDIA, harmony between the
> people of Nova Roma. This is a virtue which is hardly
> needed if the organisation of Nova Roma wants to work
> properly. And certainly in reliance to the real world
> idea.
>
> If the Roman virtues do not count for certain people,
> or they make them not count for themselves, they
> should not belong to Nova Roma.
As you'll probably notice, virtues are most demanded here when they're at
their lowest. However, it has been worse here *grim and wretched smile*.
That doesn't mean, of course, that you're not right!
et Sura scripsit:
> We are better than that, and let us prove it by letting sleeping dogs lie!
I tend to disagree with this. Sometimes letting them lie can be good for
one's own good, but at times it can be necessary to whisper them awake. What
dogs are you talking about, btw?
Valete bene!
Draco
|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] Pax Romanitas quirites! |
| From: |
"Oppius Flaccus Severus" <oppiusflaccus@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 08:19:26 -0700 |
|
Salvete Gai Senti, Tiberi Apolloni et Quiritibus;
As one of those involved in the 'heatedness' of the debates
here over the current election, I wanted to say that I can
appreciate the sentiment behind the words of both yourself
and Tiberi Apolloni. It is indeed worthy *and* Roman to attempt
and maintain the virtues and Concordia as much as possible
in all things. Conflict resolution is always a worthy goal.
What I would add is this; this election by all accounts (certainly
when compared to the elections of last December,) has been
a very mild series of debates. Though I would *never* suggest
even remotely to toss Concordia out the proverbial window,
I *do* suggest that we also keep in mind that there is a
very important election in progress, discussions and debates
can get very, very heated.
Election campaigns do that -they are by nature heated and
emotional affairs. I submit though, that there is a key
difference between having avid discussion, and lacking Concordia.
As myself and others have said before -if one
*really* wants to read about some truly brutal election campaigns,
read the records of some of the elections in Roma Mater.
I for one, welcome the chance for the serious discussion of
issues in Nova Roma. They key is to treat each other as civilly
as possible, while still allowing ourselves the full right of
agreeing -or disagreeing with one another. Speaking for myself -though
I may at times disagree; sometimes even vehemently with others
on this list, the disagreements are not personal in nature.
In the context of the current debates and discussion, I've seen
no evidence of name-calling or outright personal insult.
Bene valete,
Oppius Flaccus Severus, Legatus America Boreoccidentalis Major
Sacerdos Neptunus
-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Stevenson [mailto:dougies@--------]
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 6:23 AM
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: [novaroma] Pax Romanitas quirites!
Ave all,
I agree totally with the comments of Tiberius Apollonius. Isn't it high time we
left these petty sqaubles behind us. We have just emerged
from a period where resignations were abundant for some of the same things we
see here. I urge you as one Roman, can't we please put aside
the petty sqaubling, and forgive and forget. I implore you, please, pax
quirites! Let us let bygones be bygones, and start anew, and bring
ourselves down to the level of savages. We are better than that, and let us
prove it by letting sleeping dogs lie!
Thankyou for listening. I echo only the wise words of Cornelius Moravius
Laurentibus:
"VOTING IS NOT ONLY A RIGHT, IT IS ALSO A DUTY!"
Valete bene all,
Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Comments on Conflict of Interest |
| From: |
ksterne@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 05 Apr 2001 15:24:49 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, "Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@h...>
wrote:
> 4 Apr 2001
>
> Salve All
>
> I go the bed with my sick 13 month old and I wake up to find a
storm of emails about conflicts of interest.
Salvete Quirites,
I for one cannot see where the exisitng positions of either candidate
for Tribune of the Plebs pose a conflict of interest. While it may
be preferable in the future to restrict office holders to one office
at a time, it does not appear that Nova Roma is at that stage yet.
It seems to me that one reason for the ancient Cursus Honorum was to
make available a limited number of positions to an over abundance of
candidates. We do not have this problem, and until we do, I do not
feel additional legislation is warranted.
I'm sure no one means any ill will or feeling to other citizens.
Let's judge each candidate on his merits. I for one will support
Qunitius Sertorius simply because I feel I know him better (no
offense to Lucius Pompeius Octavianus), and I have no fear that any
conflict of interest will prevent him form carring out his duties.
Respectfully.
Valete,
Gaius Popillius Laenas
Citizen
Pleb
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Comments on Conflict of Interest |
| From: |
ksterne@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 05 Apr 2001 15:37:19 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, "JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@g...> wrote:
>
> The reason? Oh yes.......I may have failed to mention that I am 10
days away
> from my due date with our first child and am having pre-labor
contractions
Salve Priscilla Vedia,
Congratulations to you and our esteemed Consul. Welcome to our new
citizen even though he/she be Partrician ;-).
(PS. one word: epidural!)
Vale bene,
Gaius Popillius Laenas
Citizen
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Pax Romanitas quirites! |
| From: |
ksterne@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 05 Apr 2001 15:44:07 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, Craig Stevenson <dougies@i...> wrote:
> Ave all,
>
> Isn't it high time we left these petty sqaubles behind us. >
>
Salve Gaius Sentius,
I agree, but some friction is going to be evident in any political
organization or social group. (Not that we would want to emulate it,
but look at the old Republic).
Good faith debate is healthy and adds spice. Just let all civies
rememeber to keep that good faith.
Vale,
Gaius Popillius Laenas
Citizen
|
| Subject: |
Re: Activity (was Re: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest) |
| From: |
"Lucius Mauricius Procopious" <procopious@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 08:46:51 -0700 |
|
Salvete Omnes,
I know the list has been busy lately so I'll keep this short. As a Pleb. I
honor and value all input from my brothers and sisters in Nova Roma, be they
Patrician or Plebeian. While some of my fellow Plebeian may not wish to hear
the comments of Patricians, I do. Please, anyone who wishes to offer comment
on current events on the main list, do so, often!
Next year in the Forum!
Lucius Mauricius Procopious
Propraetor America Boreoccidentalis
(This is an unofficial post for which I assume full responsibility)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
procopious@--------
ICQ# 83516618
*America Boreoccidentalis Mail List
http://www.egroups.com/group/AmBor_Waves
* The Gens Mauricia
http://www.geocities.com/procopious
"Indeed, it is not by the plans of men, but by the hand of God that the
affairs of men are directed; and this men call Fate, not knowing the reason
for what things they see occur; and what seems to be without cause is easy
to call the accident of chance. Still, this is a matter every mortal will
decide for himself according to his taste."
-Procopius of Caesarea (in Palestine) [born c.490/507- died c.560s]
----- Original Message -----
From: "JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 4:02 AM
Subject: RE: Activity (was Re: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest)
> Salve,
>
> <<The first one is the involvement of the patricians in plebeian affairs.
> Just as Praetor Maximus said that it doesn't fall within a Rogator's
purview
> to voice political opinions, it's equally not a patrician's business to
> decide over what should happen in the Comitia Plebis Tributa, and what
> should not. This is a cause of the plebeians.>>
>
> Oh come now! are we really going back to the days of "us versus them"??
> May the Gods protect us from such things!! Insofar as the *only*
> contribution from people so far (regardless of grouping) has been honest
> opinion your comments above strike me as simply divisive.
>
> As has been pointed out, the actions of the Tribunes affect ALL Nova
Romans,
> As such, ALL Nova Romans are entitled to an opinion and comments on the
> subject. If the day comes when you catch Patricians sneaking into the
> Rostra to vote for Tribune, perhaps *then* your objection will hold water.
>
> In the meantime, I beg you........do not draw any further lines in the
sand.
> It is absolutely every Citizen's "business" to participate fully in Nova
> Roma. You, in fact, bemoan a lack of participation later in this same
post.
> Participation means "full" participation under the law. The honest
healthy
> debate and discussion thus far regarding Tribunician candidates falls
within
> the arena of "hey I have a thought and I want to share it". Be grateful
we
> have people who care enough to make their voices heard, and worry less
about
> what "side" they are on.
>
> Vale,
> Priscilla Vedia Serena
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Comments on Conflict of Interest |
| From: |
"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 10:45:03 -0500 |
|
Thank you very much for your support, Gaius, and I will not betray you or
Nova Romas trust. Win or not!
QS
----- Original Message -----
From: <ksterne@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 10:24 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Comments on Conflict of Interest
> --- In novaroma@--------, "Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@h...>
> wrote:
> > 4 Apr 2001
> >
> > Salve All
> >
> > I go the bed with my sick 13 month old and I wake up to find a
> storm of emails about conflicts of interest.
>
> Salvete Quirites,
>
> I for one cannot see where the exisitng positions of either candidate
> for Tribune of the Plebs pose a conflict of interest. While it may
> be preferable in the future to restrict office holders to one office
> at a time, it does not appear that Nova Roma is at that stage yet.
>
> It seems to me that one reason for the ancient Cursus Honorum was to
> make available a limited number of positions to an over abundance of
> candidates. We do not have this problem, and until we do, I do not
> feel additional legislation is warranted.
>
> I'm sure no one means any ill will or feeling to other citizens.
> Let's judge each candidate on his merits. I for one will support
> Qunitius Sertorius simply because I feel I know him better (no
> offense to Lucius Pompeius Octavianus), and I have no fear that any
> conflict of interest will prevent him form carring out his duties.
>
> Respectfully.
> Valete,
> Gaius Popillius Laenas
> Citizen
> Pleb
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: Activity (was Re: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest) |
| From: |
"Lucius Mauricius Procopious" <procopious@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 09:21:10 -0700 |
|
Salvete Omnes,
S. Appolonius wrote: I don't believe in that beautiful oath of office -
good people
> don't need it, bad people will break it. So what's the use, except for the
> fact that it's a nice formality?
I would like to take a moment to explain the use of this oath of office.
Iuppiter, (the God of oaths, among other things, right?) sees us when we
make our oaths. If we break them we will pay in some fashion. It doesn't
matter if you believe or not. He is real. My faith may be un-Roman but I
don't feel it is un-warranted. And while being fervently devoted to the
Religio may not be historically correct, it is the kind of sentiment needed
by us all if we are to build a real Nova Roma.
Next year in the Forum!
Lucius Mauricius Procopious
Propraetor America Boreoccidentalis
(This is an unofficial post for which I assume full responsibility)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
procopious@--------
ICQ# 83516618
*America Boreoccidentalis Mail List
http://www.egroups.com/group/AmBor_Waves
* The Gens Mauricia
http://www.geocities.com/procopious
"Indeed, it is not by the plans of men, but by the hand of God that the
affairs of men are directed; and this men call Fate, not knowing the reason
for what things they see occur; and what seems to be without cause is easy
to call the accident of chance. Still, this is a matter every mortal will
decide for himself according to his taste."
-Procopius of Caesarea (in Palestine) [born c.490/507- died c.560s]
----- Original Message -----
From: "S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 2:16 AM
Subject: Activity (was Re: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest)
> Salvete Quirites,
>
> I think this recent debate on the Tribunus Plebis election has shown two
> things.
>
> The first one is the involvement of the patricians in plebeian affairs.
Just
> as Praetor Maximus said that it doesn't fall within a Rogator's purview to
> voice political opinions, it's equally not a patrician's business to
decide
> over what should happen in the Comitia Plebis Tributa, and what should
not.
> This is a cause of the plebeians.
>
> The second thing is the participation level here in NR. We're faced with a
> difficult situation; either to leave some offices unfilled, or either to
> have persons hold multiple positions, which can and will lead to
corruption
> someday. I don't believe in that beautiful oath of office - good people
> don't need it, bad people will break it. So what's the use, except for the
> fact that it's a nice formality? I find that sometimes people need to be
> protected from themselves, and certainly when they tend assume much
> political power. This is not to say that this is in se bad, but it leads
> more often to bad situations and power abuse than it does not. Such is
man's
> nature. The problem remains: how are citizens going to become more active?
> As a possible solution to that problem, I think Oppius Flaccus has brought
> forward some very good points of view, and I won't repeat them. An
example,
> though, of this crying lack of intrest is the fact that for the Cerealia
> festival and the Romae Conditio festival, the Chorus Musarum hasn't had
ONE
> SINGLE submission of any piece of artwork. I find this truly disappointing
> and discouraging.
>
> Valete bene,
> S. Apollonius Draco
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] test |
| From: |
Brian Tillery <britil@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 10:36:32 -0500 |
|
this is a test post
Senatus Populusque Romanus (SPQR)
America Austroccidentalis
MARCUS FLAVIUS
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Making SPQR Grow |
| From: |
darkelf@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 05 Apr 2001 16:44:29 -0000 |
|
Salve:
> >
> > Britannia did have a good governor, but he recently left NR.
>
> One wonders if a "good governor" would have left in the first place.
>
One wonders why a good governor was removed, too. One suspects politics. One *even* suspects the same sort of politics that
prompt a consul to take shots at a departed ex-citizen.
Vale,
P. Clodia Cinnabari
Materfamilias of Gens Clodia
America Austroccidentalis
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest |
| From: |
Fortunatus <labienus@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 05 Apr 2001 12:19:00 -0500 |
|
T Labienus Quiritibus SPD
Q Fabius scripsisti:
> As far as I can tell, Rogators are not supposed to make statements
> about elections.
I see absolutely no reason why rogatores should give up their right to
participate in our public fora during elections. They are to remain
impartial while tallying the vote, not to give up all opinions. The
stated opinion of a civis who is also a rogator is *not* policy, nor is
it an attempt to set policy in any official capacity. This is the same
fallacious argument that was raised against a former curator sermonis,
saying that the person responsible for moderating the main list should
not offer political opinions.
Also, I agree entirely with L Sergius that rogatores do not give up
their right to vote.
> ...since our current Tribune is also a Senator and former
> Provincial magistrate, I see no conflict involved.
Actually, I have never held a provincial magistracy. I have been a
censorial scriba, a consular accensus, and a rogator. I held all of
those positions prior to serving as a tribunus plebis.
Currently, I am a Senator. However, I see little conflict of interest
there, as a single Senator is incapable of unconstitutional activity in
any official capacity. Also, the tribuni may pronounce intercessio
against other magistrates, and the constitution does not define
Senatores as magistrates. The only way that a conflict of interest
might arise is in the issue of reporting on the Senate's activities, and
it might rightly be argued that I would be reluctant to report things
that might otherwise be seen to be in the public interest due to my
direct involvement in Senate debates. This is one reason why I am happy
to see that neither candidate is a Senator, so that my new colleague
will be in a position to keep me honest on that score.
M Scribonius scripsisti:
> A Tribune is meant to protect the plebs if their rights are
> threatened. I can't think of any situation off the top of my
> head where a quaestor could take the rights of the plebeians
> away.
Actually, the tribuni of Nova Roma are here to protect the *whole
populace* against unconstitutional actions taken by other magistrates.
The only rights a tribunus may protect are those delineated in the
*letter* of the constitution. I would prefer to ease the wording of the
tribuni's section in the constitution to allow them to protect those
rights implied by the *spirit* as well, but that is another discussion.
In any case, I agree that there is little chance that a quaestor will be
in a position to do anything unconstitutional.
Regarding the patrician/plebeian conflict in Nova Roma: the patricians
have a distinct advantage in the Comitia Centuriata, and cannot stand
for tribunus or aedilis plebis. That's pretty much it. Any further
distinction between the two orders is, IMO, both false and undesirable.
It is true that most magistrates and Senatores are currently patrician,
but this will, I hope, change over time to better reflect the
demographics of Nova Roma in general. The best way to achieve this is
for plebeian cives to remain active in our government by running for
office.
Valete
--
"People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach
conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant."
-Helen Keller
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] New Nova Roman (10 days) |
| From: |
"A. Cato" <a.cato@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 13:34:48 -0400 |
|
Salve Priscilla Vedia et Consul Flavi Vedi: May the Gods and Goddesses of Nova Roma watch over all (three):-) of you as the arrival time draws near. We have three children, and I can assure you that interesting and great times await you all. Best wishes to you on this upcoming great occasion. I hope that our children can soon be Nova Roman citizens.Our seven year old has already chosen his name some time ago. (Marcus Tullius Cato). Good health to all of you.
I also humbly accept the Consuls forgiveness for my unthinking violation of his privacy. I will be much more careful in the future.
Ave atque vale, ... Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] ATTENDING LOCAL EVENT |
| From: |
Brian Tillery <britil@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 12:09:25 -0500 |
|
SALVE:
I AM UNABLE TO POST IN MY LOCAL GROUP RIGHT NOW, SO I THOUGHT I WOULD ASK IN
HERE. IS ANY ONE FROM America Austroccidentalis PLANNING TO ATTEND THE MED
FAIR THIS WEEKEND IN NORMAN OKLAHOMA? I AM PLANNING TO ATTEND SO I CAN
SPREAD TO GOOD WORD OF NOVA ROMA. I KNOW SEVERAL PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO
ATTEND THAT WILL BE VERY INTERESTED IN OUR GROUP. I ASK THE BLESSINGS OF THE
GODS AND GODDESSES ON MY JOURNEY.
VALE,
Senatus Populusque Romanus (SPQR)
America Austroccidentalis
MARCUS FLAVIUS
IN THE SERVICE OF ROMA
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] Re: Making SPQR Grow |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 13:46:27 -0400 |
|
Salve
> -----Original Message-----
> From: darkelf@-------- [mailto:darkelf@--------]
> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 12:44
>
> One wonders why a good governor was removed, too. One suspects
> politics.
One would be correct in that assumption, but probably not for the reasons
one thinks. I suggest if you want to know why the former governor was not
retained in her position for another year, you should inquire of the 12
Senators who failed to vote, including her own paterfamilias and many of her
staunchest supporters in the Senate. Let your sharp intellect dwell on this
question; "Why would they not vote if they really wanted her to be kept
another year as governor?"
Next year in the Forum!
Vale,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul
email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Making SPQR Grow |
| From: |
darkelf@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 05 Apr 2001 18:00:46 -0000 |
|
> One would be correct in that assumption, but probably not for the reasons
> one thinks. I suggest if you want to know why the former governor was not
> retained in her position for another year, you should inquire of the 12
> Senators who failed to vote, including her own paterfamilias and many of her
> staunchest supporters in the Senate. Let your sharp intellect dwell on this
> question; "Why would they not vote if they really wanted her to be kept
> another year as governor?"
>
This does all fall under the heading 'politics', nonne? I have heard the 'reasons' behind the vote for removal. I have heard,
too, why some failed to vote. One's sharp intellect does indeed dwell on those things... and dwells too on the practices of
attacking the absent, and draws its own conclusions about its opponent.
Cinnabari
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Making SPQR Grow |
| From: |
nous_athanatos@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 05 Apr 2001 18:23:32 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, "Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@n...>
wrote:
> One wonders if a "good governor" would have left in the first place.
Cannot the same be said of a Consul or a Dictator?
T. Clodius Mercurialis
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Old Business I: Name Change Edict |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 14:28:35 -0400 |
|
Flavius Vedius Germanicus novaromanis S.P.D.
There are two items left over from last year's agenda that were supposed to
be voted on, but for whatever reason never were. I would like to take care
of these loose ends, and will hopefully be including them the next time the
Comitia Populi is called to vote (possibly early May).
The first is the "Censorial Edict on Changing Roman Names" from last year. I
present the full text below to make commentary easier; the plan is to have
the edict (with any adjustments that might seem appropriate) voted on as a
Lex. Comments, etc. are more than welcome, as always.
-----
Edictum Censoriale de Mutandis Nominibus
CENSORIAL EDICT ON
CHANGING OF ROMAN NAMES
June 29, 2000
A Latin Translation of this Edict follows the English Version.
STATEMENT OF PURPOSE
I. - This edict is set forth to define the procedures by which a citizen may
apply to add, alter, or substitute any portion of his or her Roman name,
and to state the guidelines by which such an application may be judged.
This is
done in order to attain a measure of conformity with ancient Roman naming
conventions and tradition. Note that this edictum, and its procedures and
guidelines, apply to changes sought by citizens after the publication of
this edictum, and do not apply to citizens' existing names.
II. - This edict has no impact on chatroom handles, signatures to private or
casual e-mail messages, or any other alias that any citizen may choose to
use. Rather, 'Roman name' for the purposes of this edict refers to the name
used by the citizen in public oaths, applications to sodalitates and in
other official contexts; this Roman name is the one recorded in the
censorial album civium.
III. - Note that the use of the male gender throughout this document is done
solely for clarity, and is not meant to imply any disparity between the
sexes before the law.
IV. - Also note that this document uses the word sex to describe the
physical sex of a person and the word gender to refer to linguistic gender
only.
V. - It is not the intent of this edictum to discriminate against or to make
any judgment about homosexuality, transgenderedness, or any other sexual
identity. No such discrimination should be inferred from any part of this
document. Nor should it be used as a precedent for any law, magisterial act,
edictum, or other action that interferes with the rights of any citizen on
the basis of that citizen's sexual identity.
REITERATION OF THE DEFINITION OF A ROMAN NAME
VI. As has been stated elsewhere, a Roman name consists of a praenomen,
nomen, cognomen, and possibly an agnomen, and, in rare cases, several
agnomina.
VII. - The praenomen is a citizen's given name, and is used to distinguish
between members of a particular gens. Since there are very few historical
praenomina, and since the praenomen's role is almost entirely secondary, a
citizen is almost never referred to by praenomen alone.
VIII. - The nomen identifies a citizen's gens. Since a change in the stem of
a citizen's nomen would necessitate a change in gens-- a case of either
adoptio or the founding of a new gens-- it is beyond the scope of this
edictum.
IX. - The cognomen was originally a nickname. It is used to further
identify members within a gens, who could easily be identically named due to
the paucity of praenomina. Over time, the cognomen became inherited, and
was
used to identify specific family lines within a single gens. Changes to
adopt certain names as cognomina are restricted, as set forth in paragraphs
X and XI below. Note that these restrictions do not apply whatsoever to
cognomina under which citizens have already received citizenship.
X. - An agnomen is an additional form of nickname that is commonly bestowed
upon a citizen by others, often to commemorate significant accomplishments
or important events in the citizen's life. While it is possible for a
citizen to add a new agnomen or change an existing one by request, agnomina
of distinction must be awarded by a senator, curule magistrate, or pontifex
in recognition of service to Nova Roma. Official recognition of such
awarded agnomina of distinction is completed by the censors' entering the
agnomina in the album civium. Following each such entry by the censores, the
latter will provide the curator araneae with the full Roman name of the
distinguished citizen and an explanation of the circumstances and reasons
surrounding the award of the agnomen, that the curator araneae may publish
this information to the Nova Roma website as he sees fit.
XI. - Agnomina of distinction include, but are not limited to, the
following: Augur, Augustus, Felix, Invictus, Magnus, Maximus,
Optimus, Pius, Superbus, Victor. Note that these restrictions do not
apply whatsoever to agnomina under which citizens have already received
citizenship.
XII. - As an example, Quintus Caecilius Metellus Nepos would be Quintus of
the Metellus branch of gens Caecilia. His family would be referred to as the
Caecilii Metelli, in order to distinguish them from the other families
within gens Caecilia. His agnomen, Nepos, distinguishes him from any
other Quintus of the Caecilii Metelli. As nepos means grandson, it also
most likely distinguishes him as the third in a line of like-named people.
PROCEDURES
XIII. - A citizen wishing to change his name shall first contact his
paterfamilias and present his reasons for desiring a name change, as well
as the desired name. The paterfamilias will in turn contact the censores
should he approve of the name change, or should he find that he requires
help in determining whether or not to approve the change.
XIV. - Patresfamiliae are instructed to work cooperatively with members of
their gens who desire to change their names in order to help them conform to
the letter and spirit of this document.
XV. - Should a paterfamilias disapprove of a citizens desired name change,
refusing to present it to the censores, said citizen may appeal to the
censores within ninety (90) days of the refusal.
XVI. - A paterfamilias who wishes to change his name shall apply to the
censores directly.
XVII. - Should an applicant fail to obtain a name change from the censores,
he may, within ninety (90) days of the refusal, appeal to a consul or
praetor to bring the matter before the people through a vote in the Comitia
Populi
Tributa.
i) - Note that such an action requires the citizen who desires the change
to temporarily waive his rights of confidentiality as defined in Lex
Cornelia de Privatis Rebus, in order that evidence for and against the
application
may be presented to the populace.
ii) - Also note that the decision to convene the Comitia Populi Tributa,
along with the schedule for doing so, is the purview of the consules and
praetores, and is therefore beyond the scope of this edict.
GUIDELINES
XVIII. - An application for a name change is confidential. The requested
name, along with any and all evidence presented with it, is considered
confidential information as covered by the Lex Cornelia de Privatis Rebus.
Censores, patresfamiliae, and anyone called to provide testimony by any
party in the procedure are not to divulge any information applicable to the
name change to anyone without the applicants written permission, except as
directed by this edict. Such exceptions include the following:
i) - A paterfamilias providing relevant information upon referring a
request for a new name to the censores.
ii) - A paterfamilias or other citizen providing relevant information upon
a censor, consul, or praetors request, as in the case of an appeal of
a denied application.
iii) - A citizen presenting evidence before the Comitia Populi Tributa in
the case of an appeal to those comitia.
XIX. - The guiding principle in considering name changes is to be conformity
with ancient Roman tradition.
i) - New praenomina should be historically attested ones.
ii) - As previously stated, agnomina of distinction (Maximus, Felix, et
cetera) are not to be granted to citizens on request, but can be awarded to
any citizen by any senator, curule magistrate, or pontifex in recognition of
any special service to the Republic. It is up to the patresfamiliae and
censores to determine what is and is not an agnomen of distinction on a
case-by-case basis.
iii) - Cognomina and agnomina can be new coinages, but must be conducive to
Latin declension, and must have a clear meaningboth semantically and in
specific relation to the citizen requesting the added or changed name.
iv) - The gender of the name is to be consistent. Each part is to agree
with all others in gender, and with the sex of the citizen requesting the
name change.
XX. - A citizen who wishes to change the gender of his name counter to that
dictated by his sex must present, in support of his application, proof of
acceptance of the contrary sex by an authority of a macronation, state, or
municipality. In other words, if the applicant is physically a man and has
a form of macronational or municipal identification listing his sex as
female, or is officially recognized as a woman in his country of
macronational citizenship, then he may use a feminine name in Nova Roma.
i) - An exception to this rule is allowed in the case of transsexual
citizens who are discussing surgical sex alteration with a health care
provider or undergoing other medical and psychological treatment in
preparation for such an operation. In these instances, documentation
pertaining to health care provider(s) may be required of the applicant.
ii) - Post-operative transsexual citizens shall be named according to their
current sex.
iii) - Hermaphrodites shall be named according to the sex in which they are
recognized by their country of macronational citizenship.
-----
Next year in the Forum!
Vale,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul
email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Invalid Voter Codes |
| From: |
"A. Cato" <a.cato@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 14:30:59 -0400 |
|
Salvete Omnes: The citizens whos vote Tracking Numbers are listed below have entered invalid voter codes. Please try to vote again, and if the problem continues, contact the Censores or Rogatores.
# 5001, # 5021, # 5029 Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato, Rogator
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Congratulations! |
| From: |
Christer Edling <tjalens.h@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 20:37:46 +0200 |
|
Salvete omnes!
Congratulations to my new collegae, the Governors, Pompeia Cornelia Strabo,
Govenor of Canada Orientalis and Titus Sertorius Albinus, Govenor of
Britannia!
I known that You both will do a splendid job in your respective Provincia!
As I said to the two collegae appointed together with myself, I hope that
we can cooperate in the future and invite You to contact me if You think
that I can be of use in some way. I also hope that I am welcome to do the
same!
Vale
Christer Edling
alias
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus
The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
SHAMALI SALUKIS
************************************************
CAMELOT ROLEPLAYING WORKSHOP
Robert Andersson & Christer Edling
************************************************
IF GAMES - If reality was different!
Markus Sundbom & Christer Edling
************************************************
MAIN E-MAIL ADDRESS: tjalens.h@--------
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Language skills |
| From: |
"Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa" <vipsaniusagrippa@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 05 Apr 2001 12:50:13 -0600 |
|
Salve
My name is Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa and (I know this may seem odd in a Roman
group) I was wondering whether anyone had access to resources concerning
translating Old English/Anglo-Saxon to modern English. The reason I am
asking is I am attempting to find a English meaning or background for the
name of my city of Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. I have done some preliminary
research and found it is origin to be from a district in Enfield (a borough
of London). It means 'farmstead of a man named Eadhelm'. The original name
for the area was Adelmetone.
Any follow up information I could recieve is most greatly appreciated.
GVA
Paterfamilas of Gens Vipsania
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
|
| Subject: |
Re:[novaroma] Keeping citizens interested (was Re: Conflict of Interest) |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 05 Apr 2001 12:01:49 -0700 |
|
Ave,
My comments below:
"A. Cato" wrote:
>
> Salve: I agree with your opinion Luci Corneli. But then the question
>arises; How are we to encourage more citizens to step forward and get
>involved in the administration of government, the Religio, etc., etc.?
Well, the first thing would be to recognize that we have citizens in
Nova Roma who might be interested in one specific aspect of ancient
Rome. I know citizens who are only interested in the Religio,
Military,
Culture and Arts, Reenactments, etc. So, I think that we should really
try to develop these aspects as quickly as possible. Our Sodalita's
(and soon to be approved ones) would definately help keep the fire
alive
in those people who are only interested in those aspects.
Also, in the beginning of this year I sent to our Noble Senator M.
Octavius a list of email addys for all lists that are NR related.
Unfortunately, that list has not been put up. Hopefully soon it will
be
published and updated with the new lists that have since been created.
The breakdown of those lists would be:
Officially moderated lists: (NR main and NR announce)
Provincia lists:
Religio Lists:
Sodalitas Lists:
Special Interest Lists:
Those lists all one would need to do is to click on the link it will
take you right to Yahoogroups and you can add yourself.
Then there is the IM database. That has been my baby. One can get
information about other citizens via direct contact, outside of email.
This is a better form of communication because the chances of being
misinterpreted are much less likely.
Now, some other aspects I think we can develop is say a quarterly or a
bi-annual mass email to all of our citizens. This would be a basic
reminder that NR exists. It could be something like a FAQ sheet giving
stats of our growth, and recent events, warnings of upcoming elections,
even voter code changes (if the Censors need to do that). M. Octavius
has done at least 1 mass mailing for me...and he said he it was fairly
simple.
I just want to add that I agreed with the comments stated by Oppius
Flaccus that Paters/Maters and Provinces should already be beginning to
play a large part in the development of NR. He elaborated his points
very eloquently, and there is little I have to add in that. Except
that
I cannot stress enough on the input and direction from Pater/Maters.
I want to use the Gens Cornelia, my Gens, as an example. The Gens
Cornelia
is a very large Gens....and many of my Family are very active. I have 2
Quaestors, 1 Curule Aedile, 2 Pontiffs, 1 Flamen, 1 Vesta Maxima, 2
Governors, and assorted assistants to magistrates and sodalitas. I
think
that one of the reasons as to
why I have such an active Gens because I try to promote participation
in
my Gens. I always ask my Gens if they are interested in public service
and if they have questions about what positions entail...and then I ask
them if they have the time to devote to Nova Roma. Another aspect is
the Gens email lists. I know that now many Gentes in Nova Roma now
have
Gens email lists and that is great. And, I hope more
Pater/Materfamilias
take more time to promote participation in Nova Roma.
>Among the pool of citizens Patrician and Plebian there must be a great
>many who have tremendous talents that they could offer. What is holding
>them back?
Well, all I can state is my opinion. Part of it is stated above. Some
citizens are just not interested in politics and that is fine. But for
those that are interested I think a few things might hold them back.
First is a lack of knowledge. I cant stress to you how much I have
learned being a magistrate in NR. Even now I still make mistakes, but
I
try to rectify them as quickly as they are presented to me. But, I
think a way to overcome part of this is through the establishment of a
time honored Roman tradition of patron/client relationship. I am not
saying that we should follow every aspect of what it was like in
ancient
rome..but more like a tutelage. Where a newer member of Nova Roma is
taken under the wing of an "old-timer" and is taught what being in NR
is
about, how the political system works, and why it works that
way....etc. Because, I am of the opinion that once us old-timers are
no
longer in office it will be held by a newer generation, and I think it
would be better to give them training on how NR works, and why NR works
the way it does, than to leave our newer citizens on their own to drift
and not have the guidance of our learned citizens.
> I think that what is need is a brainstorming session to come up
>with
some answers. How many citizens do you figure applied for >citizenship,
received their citizenship, and then forgot about Nova Roma?
Honestly, I don't know. But, in being Censor for almost a year and a
half, I can say that its probably quite a few.
>How many signed onto the main list and receive these E-mails?
The last time I checked Yahoogroups there were 379 members on the NR
main list..and that is opposed to over 800 citizens. (Please keep in
mind that not all members on the NR main list are citizens.) If I was
to estimate the number of citizens on the NR main list, I would say
about 325 of the members are actual citizens of Nova Roma.
> We must find a way to get more citizens involved in the affairs
of
>Nova Roma. But how?
Well, I hope my comments will spark some other ideas from you and
others. I think this is an important topic one that should be discussed
periodically.
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla
|
| Subject: |
Re: Activity (was Re: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest) |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 05 Apr 2001 12:03:32 -0700 |
|
"S. Apollonius Draco" wrote:
>
> Salve Priscilla Vedia,
>
> >
> > <<The first one is the involvement of the patricians in plebeian
affairs.
> > Just as Praetor Maximus said that it doesn't fall within a
Rogator's
> purview
> > to voice political opinions, it's equally not a patrician's
business to
> > decide over what should happen in the Comitia Plebis Tributa, and
what
> > should not. This is a cause of the plebeians.>>
> >
> > Oh come now! are we really going back to the days of "us versus
them"??
> > May the Gods protect us from such things!! Insofar as the *only*
> > contribution from people so far (regardless of grouping) has been
honest
> > opinion your comments above strike me as simply divisive.
> >
> > As has been pointed out, the actions of the Tribunes affect ALL
Nova
> Romans,
> > As such, ALL Nova Romans are entitled to an opinion and comments on
the
> > subject. If the day comes when you catch Patricians sneaking into
the
> > Rostra to vote for Tribune, perhaps *then* your objection will hold
water.
> >
> > In the meantime, I beg you........do not draw any further lines in
the
> sand.
> > It is absolutely every Citizen's "business" to participate fully in
Nova
> > Roma. You, in fact, bemoan a lack of participation later in this
same
> post.
> > Participation means "full" participation under the law. The honest
> healthy
> > debate and discussion thus far regarding Tribunician candidates
falls
> within
> > the arena of "hey I have a thought and I want to share it". Be
grateful
> we
> > have people who care enough to make their voices heard, and worry
less
> about
> > what "side" they are on.
>
> I knew I'd get a comment like that thrown at me. If you continue to
apply
> your own logic further, and I would get full participation options
here in
> NR, then from now on I request to be privy to the Senate debates (and
to
> participate in them), and be made a patrician whilst remaining a
plebeian.
> I'm sure the Conscript Fathers wouldn't like the idea.
>
> °I° am not the one who instituted the difference between plebeians
and
> patricians, and if it were up to me I'd get rid of them. But one has
to
> respect his own proper divisions he makes, and these divisons are NOT
the
> sort you were talking about. Why be allergic for that word anyway, if
the
> motto of the res publica is SPQR (The Senate and the People of Rome)?
Were
> the Senatores not part of the People then? I thought so. The day
patricians
> lose their extra century points and may elect a Tribunus Plebis, and
the
day
> a plebeian can be named Dictator, perhaps then we can talk.
Ave,
But, Sextus Apollonius, please consider the venue where this debate is
occurring. Not in the Comitia Plebis, but on the NR main list. Where
both Patricians and Plebians both equally participate.
Unlike the main list, there are strict regulations and guidelines that
must be followed before people are added in the Senate List.
Therefore, please realize that while on the main list, both Patricians
and Plebians are at liberty to comment on various political issues.
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] a little reminder |
| From: |
Matthias Stappert <3s@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 05 Apr 2001 22:18:36 +0200 |
|
Salve,
a wise word, Tiberi Apolloni. Fyi, I review the virtues from time to
time.
vale
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Praetor
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix wrote:
>
> Salve
>
> I'm not a citizen for a long time, but I would like to
> remind all those people arguing about small topics to
> something I read on the website: In the chapter about
> Roman virtues I read CONCORDIA, harmony between the
> people of Nova Roma. This is a virtue which is hardly
> needed if the organisation of Nova Roma wants to work
> properly. And certainly in reliance to the real world
> idea.
>
> If the Roman virtues do not count for certain people,
> or they make them not count for themselves, they
> should not belong to Nova Roma.
>
> This is something that was on my mind and I had to say
> it. It is certainly not meant as a personal attack on
> someone, but just a thought of me.
>
> Vale bene
> Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
>
> =====
> "De te autem, Catilina, cum quiescunt, probant; cum patiuntur, decernunt; cum tacent, clamant." (M. Tullius Cicero: In Catilinam I, 20)
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Language skills |
| From: |
"J. T. Sibley" <jrsibley@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 05 Apr 2001 17:09:19 -0400 |
|
Salve Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa!
Anglo-Saxon language? I'd head straight to the ANSAX web site; they're
anglo-saxon specialists. If they can't tackle this, I'm quite sure that they
will be more than glad to provide URLs of those professors who make livings
teaching Anglo-Saxon at Major Universities (like Oxford or Cambridge or
somesuch).
Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa wrote:
> I was wondering whether anyone had access to resources concerning
> translating Old English/Anglo-Saxon to modern English. The reason I am
> asking is I am attempting to find a English meaning or background for the
> name of my city of Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. I have done some preliminary
> research and found it is origin to be from a district in Enfield (a borough
> of London). It means 'farmstead of a man named Eadhelm'. The original name
> for the area was Adelmetone.
...and not so very far from where I live in Connecticut, there is a town named
Enfield... the next town down from mine is Chester, from the Roman "castra",
fortified camp. Interesting how many Roman names fetched up here in the New
World....
vale,
S. Ambrosia Fulvia
"ask me about Old Norse; I have a better chance at that..."
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: sounds like a really neat conference! |
| From: |
"J. T. Sibley" <jrsibley@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 05 Apr 2001 17:28:38 -0400 |
|
Posted from the Archaeology Institute of America list:
> AIA LIST DIGEST Conferences 00-01-s-196
>
> Date: Thursday, April 05, 2001
> [rome-arch] Roman Funeral World (44 lines)
> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 10:17:20 +0200
> From: Alicia Jiménez <gloria10@-------->
> Subject: [rome-arch] Roman Funeral World (44 lines)
>
> SPACE AND FUNERARY HABITS IN OCCIDENTAL ROMAN WORLD. INTERNATIONAL CONGRESS
>
> The International Congress “Space and Funerary Habits in Occidental
> Roman World” / Espacio y Usos Funerarios en el Occidente Romano , will
> be held on June 5 – 9, 2001 at the Filosofia y Letras Faculty,
> Universidad de Cordoba, Cordoba, Spain.
>
> This event has been organized by the Seminario de Arqueologia
> (Universidad de Cordoba) and Prof. Dr. Desiderio Vaquerizo Gil.
>
> An international team of scholars will present papers in the following sessions:
>
> Concept, ritual and methodology / Concepto, ritual y metodología:
> Ritual, monuments and architectural decoration / Ritual, monumentos y
> decoracion arquitectonica:
> Necropolis, monuments and architectural decoration / Necropolis,
> monumentos y decoracion arquitectonica.
> Necropolis, monuments and architectural decoration. Later Roman Empire
> / Necropolis, monumentos y decoracion arquitectonica. Bajo Imperio y
> Tardoantiguedad.
> Necropolis, monuments and architectural decoration. Epigraphy /
> Necropolis, monumentos y decoración arquitectonica. Epigrafia.
> Funerary Iconography / Iconografia Funeraria
>
> The meeting is sponsored by the Ministerio de Educacion Cultura y
> Deporte of Spain and the Universidad de Cordoba.
>
> Fee: 10 000 pts. (c. 61 Euros, $54) Fee plus minutes: 15 000 pts.
> (c. 91 Euros, $81)
>
> Further conference information at aa1vagid@-------- Phone number: 00 34
> 957 21 88 04 Fax: 00 34 957 218 366. Postal address: Seminario de
> Arqueologia. Facultad de Filosofia y Letras, Plaza del Cardenal
> Salazar, 3. 14003, Cordoba, Spain.
>
> PS: Please, don’t hesitate to post this information to any interested
> person or mail list. We would be very grateful if this event could
> receive the maximum diffusion.
>
> Alicia Jimenez
> Universidad Autonoma de Madrid
> alicia.jimenez@--------
>
> ------------------------------
> ***********************************
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
Re:[novaroma] Keeping citizens interested (was Re: Conflict of Interest) |
| From: |
=?iso-8859-1?q?Gnaeus=20Salix=20Astur?= <salixastur@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 22:35:13 +0200 (CEST) |
|
Salve, Cornelie Sulla Felix; et salvete, romani.
--- Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
<alexious@--------> escribió: > Ave,
------------- Ommitted
--------------------------------
> First is a lack of knowledge. I cant stress to you
> how much I have
> learned being a magistrate in NR. Even now I still
> make mistakes, but
> I
> try to rectify them as quickly as they are
> presented to me. But, I
> think a way to overcome part of this is through the
> establishment of a
> time honored Roman tradition of patron/client
> relationship. I am not
> saying that we should follow every aspect of what
> it was like in
> ancient
> rome..but more like a tutelage. Where a newer
> member of Nova Roma is
> taken under the wing of an "old-timer" and is
> taught what being in NR
> is
> about, how the political system works, and why it
> works that
> way....etc. Because, I am of the opinion that once
> us old-timers are
> no
> longer in office it will be held by a newer
> generation, and I think it
> would be better to give them training on how NR
> works, and why NR works
> the way it does, than to leave our newer citizens
> on their own to drift
> and not have the guidance of our learned citizens.
>
>
I have also thought about this issue. As a new (and
not even official yet) citizen, I am very interested
in the laws of Nova Roma. I have read most of the
entries in the Tabularium, and I have sometimes found
that cross-references make that read harder than it
should be. I think it would be a good idea to recreate
just another Roman tradition: the Codex.
A Codex could be written and placed in the Tabularium
as to show what are the laws of Nova Roma up to today,
without including old laws that have been admended by
more recent laws.
Explanation could be included for the most obscure
points. Later, should a new law be approved, it would
be easy to add it to the Codex or to change the parts
that had been revisited. This Codex should not
substitute the actual presentation of laws it the
Tabularium; it would be just an additional document to
provide a complete and coherent view of the laws of
Nova Roma.
I would very much appretiate both feedback and
discussion about this idea. Please feel free to
express your feelings.
=====
Bene Valete!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Protocivis romanus.
_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Envía mensajes instantáneos y recibe alertas de correo con
Yahoo! Messenger - http://messenger.yahoo.es
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
Re:[novaroma] Keeping citizens interested (was Re: Conflict of Interest) |
| From: |
Christer Edling <tjalens.h@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Apr 2001 00:15:03 +0200 |
|
>I have also thought about this issue. As a new (and
>not even official yet) citizen, I am very interested
>in the laws of Nova Roma. I have read most of the
>entries in the Tabularium, and I have sometimes found
>that cross-references make that read harder than it
>should be. I think it would be a good idea to recreate
>just another Roman tradition: the Codex.
>
>A Codex could be written and placed in the Tabularium
>as to show what are the laws of Nova Roma up to today,
>without including old laws that have been admended by
>more recent laws.
>Explanation could be included for the most obscure
>points. Later, should a new law be approved, it would
>be easy to add it to the Codex or to change the parts
>that had been revisited. This Codex should not
>substitute the actual presentation of laws it the
>Tabularium; it would be just an additional document to
>provide a complete and coherent view of the laws of
>Nova Roma.
>
>I would very much appretiate both feedback and
>discussion about this idea. Please feel free to
>express your feelings.
>
>
>=====
>Bene Valete!
>Gnaeus Salix Astur.
>Protocivis romanus.
Salve Honorable Gnaeus Salix Astur!
I think it is a splendid idea and side with You in asking for such a
documentation!
Vale
Christer Edling
alias
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus
The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
SHAMALI SALUKIS
************************************************
CAMELOT ROLEPLAYING WORKSHOP
Robert Andersson & Christer Edling
************************************************
IF GAMES - If reality was different!
Markus Sundbom & Christer Edling
************************************************
MAIN E-MAIL ADDRESS: tjalens.h@--------
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Thank You Honorable Magnus Hadrianus Ingmarius Cogitatus Thuleus! |
| From: |
Christer Edling <tjalens.h@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Apr 2001 00:24:12 +0200 |
|
Salve Honorable Magnus Hadrianus Ingmarius Cogitatus Thuleus!
Before I continue my work of organizing Provinia Thule I want to thank You
for your work for our Provincia! I hope that I will get your assistans
during my Propraetorship of Thule and that we will have many good times
working for Nova Roma and Thule together!
Vale
Christer Edling
alias
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus
The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
SHAMALI SALUKIS
************************************************
CAMELOT ROLEPLAYING WORKSHOP
Robert Andersson & Christer Edling
************************************************
IF GAMES - If reality was different!
Markus Sundbom & Christer Edling
************************************************
MAIN E-MAIL ADDRESS: tjalens.h@--------
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Seeking appointments in Thule |
| From: |
Christer Edling <tjalens.h@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Apr 2001 00:59:49 +0200 |
|
Ex Officio Propraetoris Thulae
Edictum Propraetoricium
about the application for the positions of Legati and Scribae
I have made some offers for other positions as Legati and Scribae, now I
seek the following assistants:
I. A Prolegatus (Provisional Legatus on Trial) or Legatus Regionis Finnica,
(Legate of the Finnish Region)
II. A Prolegatus (Provisional Legatus on Trial) or Legatus Regionis
Suecicae, (Legate of the Swedish Region)
III. Cives who are willing to fill a few positions as Scribae (Assistants
responsible for different tasks which will be defined in detail later) to
the Propraetor of Thule.
Applications for these positions are accepted as of this day. I hope to
have made my first appointments of Legati and Scribae (with different
titles) before the 1st of May.
Given April 6th, in the year of the consulship of Flavius Vedius Germanicus
and Marcus Cassius Iulianus, 2754 AUC.
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Propraetor Thules
Vale
Christer Edling
alias
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus
The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
SHAMALI SALUKIS
************************************************
CAMELOT ROLEPLAYING WORKSHOP
Robert Andersson & Christer Edling
************************************************
IF GAMES - If reality was different!
Markus Sundbom & Christer Edling
************************************************
MAIN E-MAIL ADDRESS: tjalens.h@--------
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Pax Romana |
| From: |
Mark A Bird <mark_a_bird@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Apr 2001 09:36:51 +1000 |
|
That is all I wish to say for now...
Marcus Sentius Claudius
Cheers,
Mark Bird - Village Roadshow
Tax Compliance Manager
Phone 9667 6964 (03), Fax 9639 5900 (03), Mobile 0408 532 963
This communication and any files transmitted with it are intended for the
named addressee only, are confidential in nature and may contain legally
privileged information. The copying or distribution of this communication or
any information it contains, by anyone other than the addressee or the
person responsible for delivering this communication to the intended
addressee, is prohibited. If you receive this communication in error, please
advise us by telephone on 613 9667 6511, then delete the communication. You
will be reimbursed for reasonable costs incurred in notifying us.
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the Network Administrator on +61 3 9667 6699.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been scanned
for the presence of computer viruses and inappropriate content.
**********************************************************************
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] New America Austroccidentalis Group, |
| From: |
V_Praetoria@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 05 Apr 2001 23:40:27 -0000 |
|
It has come to my attention as Propraetor of America
Austroccidentalis that our discussion group has been changed so that
certain members cannot recieve posts, or even join. As the new
Propraetor, I have established a new group for the provinciae. It
can be found
at:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/america_austroccidentalis. Please
feel free to subscribe, as this is where all future post regarding my
provinciae will be directed.
I thank all of you for your support.
Pontius Sejanus Marius
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
