| Subject: |
[novaroma] conflict of interests |
| From: |
octavianuslucius@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 06 Apr 2001 00:03:43 -0000 |
|
Salvete omnes quirites.
I am overwhelmed by so many posts regarding the supposedly conflict
of interests that have been posted all day long.
I regret that this issue was brought after the election begun. I am
afraid that it should have been brought earlier. I am convinced that
now it is too late.
I would like to express my disagreement with our esteemed consul
Germanicus about resigning the propraetorship in case of winning the
election. Since I consider it is already too late to search for a
solution to the supposedly question of conflict of interests (because
the election already begun), in my humble opinion, the only way is to
go ahead, and during the year to call the comitia plebis tributa for
voting on this issue, in order to avoid this problem in the future.
Besides resigning the propraetorship maybe could solve a hypothetical
conflict of interests, but on the other way it could create some
problems for the province left without propraetor. Consequently, I do
not find the idea of resigning the propraetorship a good solution.
I realize the problem of lack of candidates. If my esteemed opponent
and me wouldn´t have requested our candidacies, then the candidacy
for tribunus plebis would still be vacant. NR doesn´t have yet enough
candidates.
Also,I wish to state that I welcome any comments, opinions, critics,
objections,etc. from anyone, no matter if he/she is patrician or
plebeian. I do not pay any attention to those argues on "plebeians
versus patricians", since I consider them a loss of time and energy.
At this point I must disagree with one of my best friends here at
Nova Roma (excuse-moi mon ami!, excuse me, my friend!).
Pax, Concordia vobiscum
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Candidate for tribunus plebis
Propraetor provinciae Argentinae
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Latin Translation |
| From: |
Mark A Bird <mark_a_bird@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Apr 2001 10:14:06 +1000 |
|
Can anyone help me with a Latin translation - I cannot find a word for Urine
- which I need for a play I am writing - a comedy in fact - greatly
appreciated...
Marcus Sentius Claudius
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] The Praetorship of Livia Marcia (was Making SPQR Grow) |
| From: |
cassius622@-------- |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 23:35:56 EDT |
|
Salvete Omnes,
I will be away for the weekend attending Mithracon at Yale University in CT.
Before leaving however, I must make a reply to a "comment" from Clodia
Cinnabari, Materfamilias of Gens Clodia, regarding the former Governor of the
America Austroccidentalis Provincia, Livia Marcia Aurelia.
Clodia Cinnabari writes:
"One wonders why a good governor was removed, too. One suspects politics.
One*even* suspects the same sort of politics that prompt a consul to take
shots at a departed ex-citizen."
Cassius respondit:
The above passage is a fairly direct reference to (and complaint about) the
Praetorship of Livia Marcia Aurelia, who was not prorogued in the Senate vote
concerning ALL Praetorships which was held in March.
In that vote, Livia Marcia Aurelia failed to carry the necessary votes for an
automatic prorogue of her position. A Praetor may be prorogued automatically
*only* if they receive a majority vote, the vote on Livia Marcia was tied.
Upon Livia Marcia not being prorogued, Gens Clodia sent a group letter of
complaint to the Senate. As one of this years consuls I sent them a reply to
this effect:
Livia Marcia was not *removed* as Praetor, she simply failed to carry a
majority vote in the Senate at this time. She therefore could not be
*automatically* prorogued as Praetor of America Austroccidentalis. The vote
on her was tied, 5 to 5, with four Senators unable to vote on time due to
various circumstances, and three others abstaining.
The fact that this vote was tied was more an unfortunate accident than
anything else. Senator Vado, her most vocal supporter in the Senate, failed
to vote on time, and her own Paterfamilias neither voted nor commented on the
situation at all. The other two Senators absent were almost assured to have
voted for her as well.
The good news was that a tied vote, while not being an automatic continuance,
was also most definitely *not* a refusal to have her as Praetor. It simply
meant that by law the Senate would have to vote on the Praetorship of
America Austroccidentalis again. In another vote her supporters would no
doubt make greater pains to attend the vote, and she would be assured of the
position.
I therefore asked Gens Claudia specifically to encourage Livia Marcia to
continue her application for the Praetorship. I even went so far as to tell
them that I would be voting for her. I also asked them (as I had asked Livia
Marcia directly) to stay in touch with the Senate on a couple of issues.
There had been questions on a couple of matters which Livia had not responded
to, and it was that lack of response that had caused the three "abstentions"
on her vote.
I believe it was Clodia Cinnabari herself who responded to my letter,
thanking me for my detailed personal response. She seemed pleased with the
information and advice I had given, and mentioned that she would take it to
Livia Marcia Aurelia.
Rather than continuing her application for Praetorship, Livia Marcia Aurelia
decided to resign her Citizenship on March 15th. While I find this very
unfortunate, I cannot see her action as anything but a decision not to accept
a position that was still very open to her.
It is my personal hope that the facts above will help put this issue behind
us. To recap: the vote on Livia Aurelia was tied, she was not "removed". She
chose to leave Nova Roma rather than participate in the second vote on the
matter required by law.
Valete,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] The Praetorship of Livia Marcia (was Making SPQR Grow) |
| From: |
"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 5 Apr 2001 22:31:32 -0500 |
|
Just to humbly clarify one point Consul, it is not the Gens Claudia but he
Gens Clodia that you refer to. The Materfamilias of the Gens Claudia is one
of my Provincial Legates, and did not comment of this debate. I just want
those in NR that may have been confused to understand this innocent
oversight. Once again thank you Consul for your comments.
MCJ;
"I therefore asked Gens Claudia specifically to encourage Livia Marcia to
continue her application for the Praetorship."
QS
----- Original Message -----
From: <cassius622@-------->
To: <NovaRoma@-------->
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 10:35 PM
Subject: [novaroma] The Praetorship of Livia Marcia (was Making SPQR Grow)
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> I will be away for the weekend attending Mithracon at Yale University in
CT.
> Before leaving however, I must make a reply to a "comment" from Clodia
> Cinnabari, Materfamilias of Gens Clodia, regarding the former Governor of
the
> America Austroccidentalis Provincia, Livia Marcia Aurelia.
>
> Clodia Cinnabari writes:
> "One wonders why a good governor was removed, too. One suspects politics.
> One*even* suspects the same sort of politics that prompt a consul to take
> shots at a departed ex-citizen."
>
> Cassius respondit:
>
> The above passage is a fairly direct reference to (and complaint about)
the
> Praetorship of Livia Marcia Aurelia, who was not prorogued in the Senate
vote
> concerning ALL Praetorships which was held in March.
>
> In that vote, Livia Marcia Aurelia failed to carry the necessary votes for
an
> automatic prorogue of her position. A Praetor may be prorogued
automatically
> *only* if they receive a majority vote, the vote on Livia Marcia was tied.
>
> Upon Livia Marcia not being prorogued, Gens Clodia sent a group letter of
> complaint to the Senate. As one of this years consuls I sent them a reply
to
> this effect:
>
> Livia Marcia was not *removed* as Praetor, she simply failed to carry a
> majority vote in the Senate at this time. She therefore could not be
> *automatically* prorogued as Praetor of America Austroccidentalis. The
vote
> on her was tied, 5 to 5, with four Senators unable to vote on time due to
> various circumstances, and three others abstaining.
>
> The fact that this vote was tied was more an unfortunate accident than
> anything else. Senator Vado, her most vocal supporter in the Senate,
failed
> to vote on time, and her own Paterfamilias neither voted nor commented on
the
> situation at all. The other two Senators absent were almost assured to
have
> voted for her as well.
>
> The good news was that a tied vote, while not being an automatic
continuance,
> was also most definitely *not* a refusal to have her as Praetor. It simply
> meant that by law the Senate would have to vote on the Praetorship of
> America Austroccidentalis again. In another vote her supporters would no
> doubt make greater pains to attend the vote, and she would be assured of
the
> position.
>
> I therefore asked Gens Claudia specifically to encourage Livia Marcia to
> continue her application for the Praetorship. I even went so far as to
tell
> them that I would be voting for her. I also asked them (as I had asked
Livia
> Marcia directly) to stay in touch with the Senate on a couple of issues.
> There had been questions on a couple of matters which Livia had not
responded
> to, and it was that lack of response that had caused the three
"abstentions"
> on her vote.
>
> I believe it was Clodia Cinnabari herself who responded to my letter,
> thanking me for my detailed personal response. She seemed pleased with the
> information and advice I had given, and mentioned that she would take it
to
> Livia Marcia Aurelia.
>
> Rather than continuing her application for Praetorship, Livia Marcia
Aurelia
> decided to resign her Citizenship on March 15th. While I find this very
> unfortunate, I cannot see her action as anything but a decision not to
accept
> a position that was still very open to her.
>
> It is my personal hope that the facts above will help put this issue
behind
> us. To recap: the vote on Livia Aurelia was tied, she was not "removed".
She
> chose to leave Nova Roma rather than participate in the second vote on the
> matter required by law.
>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Votes are needing! |
| From: |
gaiuscoriolanus@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 06 Apr 2001 06:21:35 -0000 |
|
Salvete omnes.
The things I want to say have been already said. But it is necessary
to say it again. CITIZENS, PLEASE VOTE!
I am very well aware that a lot of you are Romans because you love
roman history, culture, or legions and you don't care politic games,
but think, that the way like Nova Roma will be is in your hands.
Some of very active citizens love to say big words that to vote is
duty and each one has duty to vote, and I have even seen some
suggestions to punish no voting citizens. This is unacceptable for
all who have only small piece of democracy in his heart. No, that
will never become a law. You have the right to choose how your
citizenship will be, but think that there are some other things that
excersise an influence on it. So try to make it like you want to have
it.
Next think is, that it is not perfectly clear what candidates wants
achieve when they reach their magistratures. I deeply respect Q.
Sertorius but I don't know about his plans. What you want to achieve
and realize as tribune Quintus? Why should I have vote you? Maybe I
missed your program in mail list, but I'm sure not the only one. It
could increase number of voting citizens if candidates will advertise
his programs and plans.
Valete
Gaius Marcius Coriolanus
Paterfamilias Gens Marcia
Legatus Pannoniae Inferioris
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Govenors Removed? |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Apr 2001 02:23:31 -0400 (EDT) |
|
Salvete, Citizens;
Not that it matters a great deal at this point, but it would seem from
information that I have recieved that the Govenor to which Mistress
Cinnibari refers was not really removed. Later information indicates
that Mistess Livia Marcias never intended to return to her
Propraetorship and even went so far as to persuade her own Paterfamilius
to not vote in the Senate Vote.
In fact there is a very good possibiity that the Senate Vote was
"rigged" by some of those who have now left Nova Roma to insure the
"failure" of a governor who did not intend to take up her
responsibility, and thereby set the stage for a mass exodus on the "ides
Of March". The rigged vote came very near failing when three Senators
voted in a unexpected way and at least two others innocently missed the
vote for good reason. Somethig no-one planned on.
There is, of course, no hard-proof that this is
what occurred, except for the information that I have which was given to
me by an unimpeachable source, a large number of coincedences, and a few
careless comments in various chatrooms. Now I am sure that those who
know me well will give cresedence to what I have said, and those who do
not will reject my comments. Such is only to be expected by those who
have been fooled by thier "friends." However, I do not lie and those
who are reasonable people will understand that, and those who are not,
will not.
In regard to the past Praetor of Britannia, I can say this from his own
words, that he felt that he could no longer strive against those things
that he disagreed with seeing so little result, I certainly understand
his feelings as things in any government grind exceedingly slow but
exceedingly fine. Vado is and was a fine man and a good govenor, he
worked very hard and was brought into the Senate for that reason. His
efforts as a Governor were exemplary. He has left for his own reasons
and I for one honor him for them. I am sure they are just a honorable
now as they were when we worked together. He was his own man, and was a
skillful manager. He was not a yes man. I did not always agree with
him, but then I have not "always" agreed with ANYONE.
As long as we have in our midst those who will not stoop to "till the
fields, that they would have others plow" things will always be very
slow. We currently have almost half a hundred citizens discussing,
sometimes in heated terms, whether or not Nova Roma should buy an island
or a place on the Mainland for it's first physical home. Meanwhile there
has been before the Citizens for several months a proposal for a very
moderate tax which has been ignored. The tax (or dues, or registration
fee or whatever) is for the purpose of beginning to establish a building
fund for just the purpose of purchasing such a physical home, but it
seems that few in Nova Roma are able to tie the two elements together.
I do not speak often here on the Main List anymore, but I have promised
myself not to stop all together. That would in all liklihood make too
many people happy (Grin!!!!!!!). Yet, I am always surprised anew that
so many people believe that so few people will create for them a place
like the Nova Roma that they envision, all the while criticizing the few
for the doing of it.
I have called for those to come forth to put together a Newsletter and
from the hundreds of Citizens and Skills we have garnered four who are
willing. I and others have called for assistance to fill Province
Staffs and to Staff a Sodalitas for Nova Roma Outreach and the mailboxes
are empty.
The old answer "I am too busy" seems to be the panacea for all such
questions, but ask for some ideas, for "others" to carry out and these
ideas come in by the bagful. Not that Nova Roma does not need new
ideas, but in addition to ideas we need a five to one ratio of workers
to ideas. With that kind of ratio Nova Roma could easiy gain 5 years in
one 12 month calendar period, but such will not happen until the ratio
of workers to ideas reverses. Instead of five ideas to one worker it
must be the other way around.
In regard to the question "Patrician or Plebian" I am Patrician, raised
to that position for the honor of my industry in Nova Roma. My
anchestor was a Plebian. I honor my anchestor and I believe that the
honor given me derives also upon him and his memory. However, I am sure
that my ancestor Marcus Minucius Audens, Legionary of the XXth Legio,
Miles Immunes Gromaciti and a long=term soldier of the Empire, would not
approve of me should I not be interested in the problems of the Plebians
in Nova Roma. No, I can no longer vote, but I would ask those who say
that Patricians have no place in Plebian affairs if they think that the
honor of an award for industry takes away the interest of he who is so
honored??
Be gentle for it is not the harsh edge of your tonhgue that your friends
and others seek. Be aware that perhaps your "clever saying" to your own
ears may well be an insult to another's. Be generous in your praise and
stingy in your criticism and give to all that which they have earned.
If in doubt look to the Virtues for your guide, and if you are wrong
apologize. If you are wronged accept the apology, and see that person
as though it were yourself who made the mistake. Do not always assume
it is the other person's stupidity which makes it so difficult to get
ahead.
I always like to look carefully at a good man's argument, put myself in
his place and seek what is right about his views. I always learn
something from that exercise, not the least of which on occasion that I
am nort correct in my views. I always try to remember as my Public
Honors were given to me so can they be removed. However, my personal
honor is my own, and it cannot be satisfied except through myself. An
Oath is a sacred trust, anchored securely in your personal honor. Read
the Oath carefully those of you who would be Magistates and match you
actions to that Oath. The Oath trancends friendship in fairess to ALL.
To me a word given is binding upon me. If the person to whom the word
was given is no longer available is that word now freed from it's
execution. In my view it is not. It would indeed on occasions be nice
to be freed of a hasty promise but without an overwhelming reason the
"easy way out" is exactly that.
Vale, Respectfully;
Marcus Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Is there anyone in Tulsa, Okalahoma USA? |
| From: |
"Devry, Mark (Packaging House Auckland)" <mark.devry@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Apr 2001 14:23:22 +1200 |
|
Salve,
I have a friend who is moving back to the USA next week for a while and he
would like to know if there are any groups in or near Tulsa, Okalahoma.
(Sorry about the spelling).
If so, can you please reply to me off list with contact details and I will
pass these on. He is a keen re-enactor and it is a shame to see him go, but
he will be an asset to any group he joins.
Cheers,
Marcus Sentius Accipiter.
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: The Praetorship of Livia Marcia (was Making SPQR Grow) |
| From: |
marciusrufus@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 06 Apr 2001 08:36:55 -0000 |
|
Salvete
I dont understanding what are you talking about. I'm citizen just a
few months, and I don't know situation about Livia Marcia. If she
was "removed" ilegitimately it is a big mistake and it is necessary
to find solution of this situation.
Julianus gived a clarifying information about this situation.
Livia is already not a citizen, and discussions about her praetorship
is little bit useless.
Valete
M.Marcius Rufus
--- In novaroma@--------, "Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@h...>
wrote:
> Just to humbly clarify one point Consul, it is not the Gens Claudia
but he
> Gens Clodia that you refer to. The Materfamilias of the Gens
Claudia is one
> of my Provincial Legates, and did not comment of this debate. I
just want
> those in NR that may have been confused to understand this innocent
> oversight. Once again thank you Consul for your comments.
>
> MCJ;
> "I therefore asked Gens Claudia specifically to encourage Livia
Marcia to
> continue her application for the Praetorship."
>
> QS
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <c--------us622@-------->
> To: <NovaRoma@-------->
> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 10:35 PM
> Subject: [novaroma] The Praetorship of Livia Marcia (was Making
SPQR Grow)
>
>
> > Salvete Omnes,
> >
> > I will be away for the weekend attending Mithracon at Yale
University in
> CT.
> > Before leaving however, I must make a reply to a "comment" from
Clodia
> > Cinnabari, Materfamilias of Gens Clodia, regarding the former
Governor of
> the
> > America Austroccidentalis Provincia, Livia Marcia Aurelia.
> >
> > Clodia Cinnabari writes:
> > "One wonders why a good governor was removed, too. One suspects
politics.
> > One*even* suspects the same sort of politics that prompt a consul
to take
> > shots at a departed ex-citizen."
> >
> > Cassius respondit:
> >
> > The above passage is a fairly direct reference to (and complaint
about)
> the
> > Praetorship of Livia Marcia Aurelia, who was not prorogued in the
Senate
> vote
> > concerning ALL Praetorships which was held in March.
> >
> > In that vote, Livia Marcia Aurelia failed to carry the necessary
votes for
> an
> > automatic prorogue of her position. A Praetor may be prorogued
> automatically
> > *only* if they receive a majority vote, the vote on Livia Marcia
was tied.
> >
> > Upon Livia Marcia not being prorogued, Gens Clodia sent a group
letter of
> > complaint to the Senate. As one of this years consuls I sent them
a reply
> to
> > this effect:
> >
> > Livia Marcia was not *removed* as Praetor, she simply failed to
carry a
> > majority vote in the Senate at this time. She therefore could not
be
> > *automatically* prorogued as Praetor of America
Austroccidentalis. The
> vote
> > on her was tied, 5 to 5, with four Senators unable to vote on
time due to
> > various circumstances, and three others abstaining.
> >
> > The fact that this vote was tied was more an unfortunate accident
than
> > anything else. Senator Vado, her most vocal supporter in the
Senate,
> failed
> > to vote on time, and her own Paterfamilias neither voted nor
commented on
> the
> > situation at all. The other two Senators absent were almost
assured to
> have
> > voted for her as well.
> >
> > The good news was that a tied vote, while not being an automatic
> continuance,
> > was also most definitely *not* a refusal to have her as Praetor.
It simply
> > meant that by law the Senate would have to vote on the
Praetorship of
> > America Austroccidentalis again. In another vote her supporters
would no
> > doubt make greater pains to attend the vote, and she would be
assured of
> the
> > position.
> >
> > I therefore asked Gens Claudia specifically to encourage Livia
Marcia to
> > continue her application for the Praetorship. I even went so far
as to
> tell
> > them that I would be voting for her. I also asked them (as I had
asked
> Livia
> > Marcia directly) to stay in touch with the Senate on a couple of
issues.
> > There had been questions on a couple of matters which Livia had
not
> responded
> > to, and it was that lack of response that had caused the three
> "abstentions"
> > on her vote.
> >
> > I believe it was Clodia Cinnabari herself who responded to my
letter,
> > thanking me for my detailed personal response. She seemed pleased
with the
> > information and advice I had given, and mentioned that she would
take it
> to
> > Livia Marcia Aurelia.
> >
> > Rather than continuing her application for Praetorship, Livia
Marcia
> Aurelia
> > decided to resign her Citizenship on March 15th. While I find
this very
> > unfortunate, I cannot see her action as anything but a decision
not to
> accept
> > a position that was still very open to her.
> >
> > It is my personal hope that the facts above will help put this
issue
> behind
> > us. To recap: the vote on Livia Aurelia was tied, she was
not "removed".
> She
> > chose to leave Nova Roma rather than participate in the second
vote on the
> > matter required by law.
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > Marcus Cassius Julianus
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
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|
| Subject: |
Patroni et clientes (was Re: Re:[novaroma] Keeping citizens interested) |
| From: |
"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Apr 2001 10:42:08 +0200 |
|
Salve Luci Corneli,
(snipped)
> Well, all I can state is my opinion. Part of it is stated above. Some
> citizens are just not interested in politics and that is fine. But for
> those that are interested I think a few things might hold them back.
> First is a lack of knowledge. I cant stress to you how much I have
> learned being a magistrate in NR. Even now I still make mistakes, but
> I
> try to rectify them as quickly as they are presented to me. But, I
> think a way to overcome part of this is through the establishment of a
> time honored Roman tradition of patron/client relationship. I am not
> saying that we should follow every aspect of what it was like in
> ancient
> rome..but more like a tutelage. Where a newer member of Nova Roma is
> taken under the wing of an "old-timer" and is taught what being in NR
> is
> about, how the political system works, and why it works that
> way....etc. Because, I am of the opinion that once us old-timers are
> no
> longer in office it will be held by a newer generation, and I think it
> would be better to give them training on how NR works, and why NR works
> the way it does, than to leave our newer citizens on their own to drift
> and not have the guidance of our learned citizens.
While I think this is a good idea on its face, and would work just fine in
an ideal world (as communism would work in an ideal world), I'm afraid this
will inevitably result in mass corruption. Imagine a new citizen coming
under the tutelage of an influential person in NR, and being told lies, and
promised easy promotions if he supports his patron in this and that - or
else, expulsion, because that patron is so influential he could kill that
new citizen's public life. A patron-client-relationship should be based on
trust, and true trust is a very rare thing in this world, and it is even
more rare on the internet.
Mind you, I'm not accusing anyone here, but as I said before in the debate
over the possible conflict of intrests: where there's a good °opportunity°
for corruption, someone will eventually °use° that opportunity.
Vale bene!
Draco
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Old Business I: Name Change Edict |
| From: |
"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Apr 2001 10:46:01 +0200 |
|
Salvete Consul Vedi et Quirites Novae Romae,
I've carefully read through the infamous Gender Edictum once again, and
again I see that it is well-constructed, and overall clearly stated.
However, I think given the difficulty to actually do apply for a name change
(regarding change of gender in a name), with all the bureaucracy involved,
it would be easier for said citizens to resign their citizenship and then
come back under a different name - it's less difficult and it's not illegal.
So while this Edictum is certainly thorough, it's on some points just not
very "user friendly", shall we say.
Valete bene!
Draco
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
Re: Activity (was Re: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest) |
| From: |
"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Apr 2001 10:48:51 +0200 |
|
Salve Luci Maurici,
> S. Appolonius wrote: I don't believe in that beautiful oath of office -
> good people
> > don't need it, bad people will break it. So what's the use, except for
the
> > fact that it's a nice formality?
>
> I would like to take a moment to explain the use of this oath of office.
> Iuppiter, (the God of oaths, among other things, right?) sees us when we
> make our oaths. If we break them we will pay in some fashion. It doesn't
> matter if you believe or not. He is real. My faith may be un-Roman but I
> don't feel it is un-warranted. And while being fervently devoted to the
> Religio may not be historically correct, it is the kind of sentiment
needed
> by us all if we are to build a real Nova Roma.
>
But if people will break their oath of office, shall Iuppiter strike them
down with lightning? I think my argument is still standing: a pious and
righteous person doesn't need an oath to prove his trustworthiness and piety
regarding Roma and the Pantheon, while an impious villain doesn't need it
either - he's going to break that oath anyway.
Vale bene,
Draco
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] Old Business I: Name Change Edict |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Apr 2001 08:13:31 -0400 |
|
Salve;
> -----Original Message-----
> From: S. Apollonius Draco [mailto:hendrik.meuleman@--------]
> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 04:46
>
> So while this Edictum is certainly thorough, it's on some points just not
> very "user friendly", shall we say.
So what specific changes would you recommend? That's the whole point of
posting these sorts of things far before the actual vote; to be able to
adjust them based on input from the people. I had hoped to get a few more
practical comments than "I don't like it"... :-)
Next year in the Forum!
Vale,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul
email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: The Praetorship of Livia Marcia (was Making SPQR Grow) |
| From: |
"Marcus Cassius Julianus" <cassius622@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 06 Apr 2001 12:20:14 -0000 |
|
Salvete,
My most humble apologies for the typographical error. I did indeed
mean Gens Clodia rather than Gens Claudia! Unfortunately I had no
choice but to type that letter very late at night if it was going to
go out at all... if that is the only error I made it will be a
surprise.
Valete,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
--- In novaroma@--------, "Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@h...>
wrote:
> Just to humbly clarify one point Consul, it is not the Gens Claudia
but he
> Gens Clodia that you refer to. The Materfamilias of the Gens
Claudia is one
> of my Provincial Legates, and did not comment of this debate. I
just want
> those in NR that may have been confused to understand this innocent
> oversight. Once again thank you Consul for your comments.
>
> MCJ;
> "I therefore asked Gens Claudia specifically to encourage Livia
Marcia to
> continue her application for the Praetorship."
>
> QS
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <c--------us622@-------->
> To: <NovaRoma@-------->
> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 10:35 PM
> Subject: [novaroma] The Praetorship of Livia Marcia (was Making
SPQR Grow)
>
>
> > Salvete Omnes,
> >
> > I will be away for the weekend attending Mithracon at Yale
University in
> CT.
> > Before leaving however, I must make a reply to a "comment" from
Clodia
> > Cinnabari, Materfamilias of Gens Clodia, regarding the former
Governor of
> the
> > America Austroccidentalis Provincia, Livia Marcia Aurelia.
> >
> > Clodia Cinnabari writes:
> > "One wonders why a good governor was removed, too. One suspects
politics.
> > One*even* suspects the same sort of politics that prompt a consul
to take
> > shots at a departed ex-citizen."
> >
> > Cassius respondit:
> >
> > The above passage is a fairly direct reference to (and complaint
about)
> the
> > Praetorship of Livia Marcia Aurelia, who was not prorogued in the
Senate
> vote
> > concerning ALL Praetorships which was held in March.
> >
> > In that vote, Livia Marcia Aurelia failed to carry the necessary
votes for
> an
> > automatic prorogue of her position. A Praetor may be prorogued
> automatically
> > *only* if they receive a majority vote, the vote on Livia Marcia
was tied.
> >
> > Upon Livia Marcia not being prorogued, Gens Clodia sent a group
letter of
> > complaint to the Senate. As one of this years consuls I sent them
a reply
> to
> > this effect:
> >
> > Livia Marcia was not *removed* as Praetor, she simply failed to
carry a
> > majority vote in the Senate at this time. She therefore could not
be
> > *automatically* prorogued as Praetor of America
Austroccidentalis. The
> vote
> > on her was tied, 5 to 5, with four Senators unable to vote on
time due to
> > various circumstances, and three others abstaining.
> >
> > The fact that this vote was tied was more an unfortunate accident
than
> > anything else. Senator Vado, her most vocal supporter in the
Senate,
> failed
> > to vote on time, and her own Paterfamilias neither voted nor
commented on
> the
> > situation at all. The other two Senators absent were almost
assured to
> have
> > voted for her as well.
> >
> > The good news was that a tied vote, while not being an automatic
> continuance,
> > was also most definitely *not* a refusal to have her as Praetor.
It simply
> > meant that by law the Senate would have to vote on the
Praetorship of
> > America Austroccidentalis again. In another vote her supporters
would no
> > doubt make greater pains to attend the vote, and she would be
assured of
> the
> > position.
> >
> > I therefore asked Gens Claudia specifically to encourage Livia
Marcia to
> > continue her application for the Praetorship. I even went so far
as to
> tell
> > them that I would be voting for her. I also asked them (as I had
asked
> Livia
> > Marcia directly) to stay in touch with the Senate on a couple of
issues.
> > There had been questions on a couple of matters which Livia had
not
> responded
> > to, and it was that lack of response that had caused the three
> "abstentions"
> > on her vote.
> >
> > I believe it was Clodia Cinnabari herself who responded to my
letter,
> > thanking me for my detailed personal response. She seemed pleased
with the
> > information and advice I had given, and mentioned that she would
take it
> to
> > Livia Marcia Aurelia.
> >
> > Rather than continuing her application for Praetorship, Livia
Marcia
> Aurelia
> > decided to resign her Citizenship on March 15th. While I find
this very
> > unfortunate, I cannot see her action as anything but a decision
not to
> accept
> > a position that was still very open to her.
> >
> > It is my personal hope that the facts above will help put this
issue
> behind
> > us. To recap: the vote on Livia Aurelia was tied, she was
not "removed".
> She
> > chose to leave Nova Roma rather than participate in the second
vote on the
> > matter required by law.
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > Marcus Cassius Julianus
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Codex (was RE: Keeping citizens interested) |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Apr 2001 08:39:25 -0400 |
|
Salvete
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gnaeus Salix Astur [mailto:salixastur@--------]
> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 16:35
>
> I have also thought about this issue. As a new (and
> not even official yet) citizen, I am very interested
> in the laws of Nova Roma. I have read most of the
> entries in the Tabularium, and I have sometimes found
> that cross-references make that read harder than it
> should be. I think it would be a good idea to recreate
> just another Roman tradition: the Codex.
>
> A Codex could be written and placed in the Tabularium
> as to show what are the laws of Nova Roma up to today,
> without including old laws that have been admended by
> more recent laws.
I think this is an absolutely splendid idea! In addition, I am particularly
excited because it does seem to mesh well with the development of our civil
law code and procedure by the Civil Law Committee (slow going, but progress
is definitely being made). I think that the institution of such a Codex as
you describe, once the work of the Committee is complete and voted on by the
people, would be a vital step in making the law more accessible.
Given that the civil law, once promulgated and enacted into law, will likely
be both large and comprehensive, I would think that it would be best to hold
off actually compiling such a Codex for a few months, so that the civil
system could form its backbone.
One question; who would be in charge of maintaining and updating such a
Codex? The praetores, aediles, their scribes, or a new magistracy under the
vigintisexviri? Where did such codici come from in Roma Antiqua?
Next year in the Forum!
Vale,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul
email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: The Praetorship of Livia Marcia (was Making SPQR Grow) |
| From: |
"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Apr 2001 07:29:58 -0500 |
|
Thank you Consul for your post, it cleared up some questions I had. Do not
worry about that small mistake, we who are not in any of the higher offices
can only imagine at your work loads!
QS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marcus Cassius Julianus" <cassius622@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 7:20 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: The Praetorship of Livia Marcia (was Making SPQR
Grow)
> Salvete,
>
> My most humble apologies for the typographical error. I did indeed
> mean Gens Clodia rather than Gens Claudia! Unfortunately I had no
> choice but to type that letter very late at night if it was going to
> go out at all... if that is the only error I made it will be a
> surprise.
>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
>
>
> --- In novaroma@--------, "Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@h...>
> wrote:
> > Just to humbly clarify one point Consul, it is not the Gens Claudia
> but he
> > Gens Clodia that you refer to. The Materfamilias of the Gens
> Claudia is one
> > of my Provincial Legates, and did not comment of this debate. I
> just want
> > those in NR that may have been confused to understand this innocent
> > oversight. Once again thank you Consul for your comments.
> >
> > MCJ;
> > "I therefore asked Gens Claudia specifically to encourage Livia
> Marcia to
> > continue her application for the Praetorship."
> >
> > QS
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <c--------us622@-------->
> > To: <NovaRoma@-------->
> > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 10:35 PM
> > Subject: [novaroma] The Praetorship of Livia Marcia (was Making
> SPQR Grow)
> >
> >
> > > Salvete Omnes,
> > >
> > > I will be away for the weekend attending Mithracon at Yale
> University in
> > CT.
> > > Before leaving however, I must make a reply to a "comment" from
> Clodia
> > > Cinnabari, Materfamilias of Gens Clodia, regarding the former
> Governor of
> > the
> > > America Austroccidentalis Provincia, Livia Marcia Aurelia.
> > >
> > > Clodia Cinnabari writes:
> > > "One wonders why a good governor was removed, too. One suspects
> politics.
> > > One*even* suspects the same sort of politics that prompt a consul
> to take
> > > shots at a departed ex-citizen."
> > >
> > > Cassius respondit:
> > >
> > > The above passage is a fairly direct reference to (and complaint
> about)
> > the
> > > Praetorship of Livia Marcia Aurelia, who was not prorogued in the
> Senate
> > vote
> > > concerning ALL Praetorships which was held in March.
> > >
> > > In that vote, Livia Marcia Aurelia failed to carry the necessary
> votes for
> > an
> > > automatic prorogue of her position. A Praetor may be prorogued
> > automatically
> > > *only* if they receive a majority vote, the vote on Livia Marcia
> was tied.
> > >
> > > Upon Livia Marcia not being prorogued, Gens Clodia sent a group
> letter of
> > > complaint to the Senate. As one of this years consuls I sent them
> a reply
> > to
> > > this effect:
> > >
> > > Livia Marcia was not *removed* as Praetor, she simply failed to
> carry a
> > > majority vote in the Senate at this time. She therefore could not
> be
> > > *automatically* prorogued as Praetor of America
> Austroccidentalis. The
> > vote
> > > on her was tied, 5 to 5, with four Senators unable to vote on
> time due to
> > > various circumstances, and three others abstaining.
> > >
> > > The fact that this vote was tied was more an unfortunate accident
> than
> > > anything else. Senator Vado, her most vocal supporter in the
> Senate,
> > failed
> > > to vote on time, and her own Paterfamilias neither voted nor
> commented on
> > the
> > > situation at all. The other two Senators absent were almost
> assured to
> > have
> > > voted for her as well.
> > >
> > > The good news was that a tied vote, while not being an automatic
> > continuance,
> > > was also most definitely *not* a refusal to have her as Praetor.
> It simply
> > > meant that by law the Senate would have to vote on the
> Praetorship of
> > > America Austroccidentalis again. In another vote her supporters
> would no
> > > doubt make greater pains to attend the vote, and she would be
> assured of
> > the
> > > position.
> > >
> > > I therefore asked Gens Claudia specifically to encourage Livia
> Marcia to
> > > continue her application for the Praetorship. I even went so far
> as to
> > tell
> > > them that I would be voting for her. I also asked them (as I had
> asked
> > Livia
> > > Marcia directly) to stay in touch with the Senate on a couple of
> issues.
> > > There had been questions on a couple of matters which Livia had
> not
> > responded
> > > to, and it was that lack of response that had caused the three
> > "abstentions"
> > > on her vote.
> > >
> > > I believe it was Clodia Cinnabari herself who responded to my
> letter,
> > > thanking me for my detailed personal response. She seemed pleased
> with the
> > > information and advice I had given, and mentioned that she would
> take it
> > to
> > > Livia Marcia Aurelia.
> > >
> > > Rather than continuing her application for Praetorship, Livia
> Marcia
> > Aurelia
> > > decided to resign her Citizenship on March 15th. While I find
> this very
> > > unfortunate, I cannot see her action as anything but a decision
> not to
> > accept
> > > a position that was still very open to her.
> > >
> > > It is my personal hope that the facts above will help put this
> issue
> > behind
> > > us. To recap: the vote on Livia Aurelia was tied, she was
> not "removed".
> > She
> > > chose to leave Nova Roma rather than participate in the second
> vote on the
> > > matter required by law.
> > >
> > > Valete,
> > >
> > > Marcus Cassius Julianus
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: The Praetorship of Livia Marcia |
| From: |
"Marcus Cassius Julianus" <cassius622@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 06 Apr 2001 13:08:14 -0000 |
|
Salvete,
I quite agree that since Livia Marcia Aurelia quit her Citizenship as
part of the pre-agreed "exodus" on the Ides of March, that there is
little to be gained by further discussions of her Praetorship.
However, since some Citizens still have seemed to have questions
about the issue, it made sense to answer them directly rather than to
leave the situation hanging. My hope is that we can move on to other
issues here in the public forum.
If anyone should still have questions about Livia Marcia and her
Praetorship, I invite them to contact me personally at:
cassius@-------- Again, I will be away at Mithracon for the
weekend and will be returning on Sunday evening, 4/8.
Valete,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
Consul
--- In novaroma@--------, marciusrufus@-------- wrote:
>
> Salvete
>
> I dont understanding what are you talking about. I'm citizen just a
> few months, and I don't know situation about Livia Marcia. If she
> was "removed" ilegitimately it is a big mistake and it is necessary
> to find solution of this situation.
>
> Julianus gived a clarifying information about this situation.
> Livia is already not a citizen, and discussions about her
praetorship
> is little bit useless.
>
> Valete
>
> M.Marcius Rufus
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In novaroma@--------, "Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@h...>
> wrote:
> > Just to humbly clarify one point Consul, it is not the Gens
Claudia
> but he
> > Gens Clodia that you refer to. The Materfamilias of the Gens
> Claudia is one
> > of my Provincial Legates, and did not comment of this debate. I
> just want
> > those in NR that may have been confused to understand this
innocent
> > oversight. Once again thank you Consul for your comments.
> >
> > MCJ;
> > "I therefore asked Gens Claudia specifically to encourage Livia
> Marcia to
> > continue her application for the Praetorship."
> >
> > QS
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <c--------us622@-------->
> > To: <NovaRoma@-------->
> > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 10:35 PM
> > Subject: [novaroma] The Praetorship of Livia Marcia (was Making
> SPQR Grow)
> >
> >
> > > Salvete Omnes,
> > >
> > > I will be away for the weekend attending Mithracon at Yale
> University in
> > CT.
> > > Before leaving however, I must make a reply to a "comment" from
> Clodia
> > > Cinnabari, Materfamilias of Gens Clodia, regarding the former
> Governor of
> > the
> > > America Austroccidentalis Provincia, Livia Marcia Aurelia.
> > >
> > > Clodia Cinnabari writes:
> > > "One wonders why a good governor was removed, too. One suspects
> politics.
> > > One*even* suspects the same sort of politics that prompt a
consul
> to take
> > > shots at a departed ex-citizen."
> > >
> > > Cassius respondit:
> > >
> > > The above passage is a fairly direct reference to (and
complaint
> about)
> > the
> > > Praetorship of Livia Marcia Aurelia, who was not prorogued in
the
> Senate
> > vote
> > > concerning ALL Praetorships which was held in March.
> > >
> > > In that vote, Livia Marcia Aurelia failed to carry the
necessary
> votes for
> > an
> > > automatic prorogue of her position. A Praetor may be prorogued
> > automatically
> > > *only* if they receive a majority vote, the vote on Livia
Marcia
> was tied.
> > >
> > > Upon Livia Marcia not being prorogued, Gens Clodia sent a group
> letter of
> > > complaint to the Senate. As one of this years consuls I sent
them
> a reply
> > to
> > > this effect:
> > >
> > > Livia Marcia was not *removed* as Praetor, she simply failed to
> carry a
> > > majority vote in the Senate at this time. She therefore could
not
> be
> > > *automatically* prorogued as Praetor of America
> Austroccidentalis. The
> > vote
> > > on her was tied, 5 to 5, with four Senators unable to vote on
> time due to
> > > various circumstances, and three others abstaining.
> > >
> > > The fact that this vote was tied was more an unfortunate
accident
> than
> > > anything else. Senator Vado, her most vocal supporter in the
> Senate,
> > failed
> > > to vote on time, and her own Paterfamilias neither voted nor
> commented on
> > the
> > > situation at all. The other two Senators absent were almost
> assured to
> > have
> > > voted for her as well.
> > >
> > > The good news was that a tied vote, while not being an automatic
> > continuance,
> > > was also most definitely *not* a refusal to have her as
Praetor.
> It simply
> > > meant that by law the Senate would have to vote on the
> Praetorship of
> > > America Austroccidentalis again. In another vote her supporters
> would no
> > > doubt make greater pains to attend the vote, and she would be
> assured of
> > the
> > > position.
> > >
> > > I therefore asked Gens Claudia specifically to encourage Livia
> Marcia to
> > > continue her application for the Praetorship. I even went so
far
> as to
> > tell
> > > them that I would be voting for her. I also asked them (as I
had
> asked
> > Livia
> > > Marcia directly) to stay in touch with the Senate on a couple
of
> issues.
> > > There had been questions on a couple of matters which Livia had
> not
> > responded
> > > to, and it was that lack of response that had caused the three
> > "abstentions"
> > > on her vote.
> > >
> > > I believe it was Clodia Cinnabari herself who responded to my
> letter,
> > > thanking me for my detailed personal response. She seemed
pleased
> with the
> > > information and advice I had given, and mentioned that she
would
> take it
> > to
> > > Livia Marcia Aurelia.
> > >
> > > Rather than continuing her application for Praetorship, Livia
> Marcia
> > Aurelia
> > > decided to resign her Citizenship on March 15th. While I find
> this very
> > > unfortunate, I cannot see her action as anything but a decision
> not to
> > accept
> > > a position that was still very open to her.
> > >
> > > It is my personal hope that the facts above will help put this
> issue
> > behind
> > > us. To recap: the vote on Livia Aurelia was tied, she was
> not "removed".
> > She
> > > chose to leave Nova Roma rather than participate in the second
> vote on the
> > > matter required by law.
> > >
> > > Valete,
> > >
> > > Marcus Cassius Julianus
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Codex (was RE: Keeping citizens interested) |
| From: |
Craig Stevenson <dougies@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 06 Apr 2001 22:38:28 +0930 |
|
Ave all,
That's a great idea, about the codex. I think perhaps the duty should go to
either the Aedilies or praetores. Given the ideas that are floating around that
there is not much to do or the aediles, perhaps they should be given the job?
Valete bene,
Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura
Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote:
> Salvete
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Gnaeus Salix Astur [mailto:salixastur@--------]
> > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 16:35
> >
> > I have also thought about this issue. As a new (and
> > not even official yet) citizen, I am very interested
> > in the laws of Nova Roma. I have read most of the
> > entries in the Tabularium, and I have sometimes found
> > that cross-references make that read harder than it
> > should be. I think it would be a good idea to recreate
> > just another Roman tradition: the Codex.
> >
> > A Codex could be written and placed in the Tabularium
> > as to show what are the laws of Nova Roma up to today,
> > without including old laws that have been admended by
> > more recent laws.
>
> I think this is an absolutely splendid idea! In addition, I am particularly
> excited because it does seem to mesh well with the development of our civil
> law code and procedure by the Civil Law Committee (slow going, but progress
> is definitely being made). I think that the institution of such a Codex as
> you describe, once the work of the Committee is complete and voted on by the
> people, would be a vital step in making the law more accessible.
>
> Given that the civil law, once promulgated and enacted into law, will likely
> be both large and comprehensive, I would think that it would be best to hold
> off actually compiling such a Codex for a few months, so that the civil
> system could form its backbone.
>
> One question; who would be in charge of maintaining and updating such a
> Codex? The praetores, aediles, their scribes, or a new magistracy under the
> vigintisexviri? Where did such codici come from in Roma Antiqua?
>
> Next year in the Forum!
>
> Vale,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> Consul
>
> email: germanicus@--------
> AIM: Flavius Vedius
> www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
>
>
>
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Elucidation is needed here, I think! |
| From: |
Craig Stevenson <dougies@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 06 Apr 2001 23:01:51 +0930 |
|
Ave all,
I find myself quite disturbed tonight, upon reading the aforementioned post.
How do you claim to know all the reasons behind the refusal of Livia Marcia?
I happen to know quite a lot, and I can just say that with all of the
accusations flying at her, at one point she was near having neck pains and
nervous twitches from the stress of opening her inbox and facing another
round of attacks at her. At the point where the said event happened, she was
very stressed already, with enormous workloads, and doing courses at the same
time.
One of the other things you failed to mention was the fact that some of the
senators cited as their reasons for not proroging her governorship down to
the controversy surrounding her and another unnamed citizen. And suddenly,
out of nowhere you bring out this 'conspiracy theory' that it was all a mass,
pre-arranged exodus. Where is your evidence for this? Surely the person who
was your informant can be named, for there is no fear of backlash at this
point? And surely it must be said that Livia Marcia had a perfect right to
keep silent on a topic that she was an innocent victim of. After all, are we
to have no personal secrets? I'm sure there are many of you out there who,
after reading this missive, aren't going to go straight out and blurt out
their deepest, drakest secrets, are they?:-)
I also note that few of you know that Piscinus indeed was a very ill person,
who at times could rarely hold a conversation for more than a few minutes
before having to log off. Yet often he was told that he was a coward, or, in
the words of Quintus Fabius, "a rat", when he did not show up to defend
himself. He was often incapacitated by his illnesses, and yet none inquired
about this. Are we that lacking in honor and dignity?
I am surprised that someone who knows the least of an event such as youself
would suddenly proclaim himself such an expert on this subject, when none of
the particulars were aired. I myself did not know until after her
resignation, when she felt she had to clear her name to someone who could be
impartial enough to listen.
I leave this message off now, but I must say that I am less than pleased at
this, especially from a man of whom Livia Marcia once held such high opinions
and esteemed his opinions greatly.
Valete bene,
Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura
Marcus Cassius Julianus wrote:
> Salvete,
>
> I quite agree that since Livia Marcia Aurelia quit her Citizenship as
> part of the pre-agreed "exodus" on the Ides of March, that there is
> little to be gained by further discussions of her Praetorship.
>
> However, since some Citizens still have seemed to have questions
> about the issue, it made sense to answer them directly rather than to
> leave the situation hanging. My hope is that we can move on to other
> issues here in the public forum.
>
> If anyone should still have questions about Livia Marcia and her
> Praetorship, I invite them to contact me personally at:
> cassius@-------- Again, I will be away at Mithracon for the
> weekend and will be returning on Sunday evening, 4/8.
>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
> Consul
>
> --- In novaroma@--------, marciusrufus@-------- wrote:
> >
> > Salvete
> >
> > I dont understanding what are you talking about. I'm citizen just a
> > few months, and I don't know situation about Livia Marcia. If she
> > was "removed" ilegitimately it is a big mistake and it is necessary
> > to find solution of this situation.
> >
> > Julianus gived a clarifying information about this situation.
> > Livia is already not a citizen, and discussions about her
> praetorship
> > is little bit useless.
> >
> > Valete
> >
> > M.Marcius Rufus
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In novaroma@--------, "Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@h...>
> > wrote:
> > > Just to humbly clarify one point Consul, it is not the Gens
> Claudia
> > but he
> > > Gens Clodia that you refer to. The Materfamilias of the Gens
> > Claudia is one
> > > of my Provincial Legates, and did not comment of this debate. I
> > just want
> > > those in NR that may have been confused to understand this
> innocent
> > > oversight. Once again thank you Consul for your comments.
> > >
> > > MCJ;
> > > "I therefore asked Gens Claudia specifically to encourage Livia
> > Marcia to
> > > continue her application for the Praetorship."
> > >
> > > QS
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <c--------us622@-------->
> > > To: <NovaRoma@-------->
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 10:35 PM
> > > Subject: [novaroma] The Praetorship of Livia Marcia (was Making
> > SPQR Grow)
> > >
> > >
> > > > Salvete Omnes,
> > > >
> > > > I will be away for the weekend attending Mithracon at Yale
> > University in
> > > CT.
> > > > Before leaving however, I must make a reply to a "comment" from
> > Clodia
> > > > Cinnabari, Materfamilias of Gens Clodia, regarding the former
> > Governor of
> > > the
> > > > America Austroccidentalis Provincia, Livia Marcia Aurelia.
> > > >
> > > > Clodia Cinnabari writes:
> > > > "One wonders why a good governor was removed, too. One suspects
> > politics.
> > > > One*even* suspects the same sort of politics that prompt a
> consul
> > to take
> > > > shots at a departed ex-citizen."
> > > >
> > > > Cassius respondit:
> > > >
> > > > The above passage is a fairly direct reference to (and
> complaint
> > about)
> > > the
> > > > Praetorship of Livia Marcia Aurelia, who was not prorogued in
> the
> > Senate
> > > vote
> > > > concerning ALL Praetorships which was held in March.
> > > >
> > > > In that vote, Livia Marcia Aurelia failed to carry the
> necessary
> > votes for
> > > an
> > > > automatic prorogue of her position. A Praetor may be prorogued
> > > automatically
> > > > *only* if they receive a majority vote, the vote on Livia
> Marcia
> > was tied.
> > > >
> > > > Upon Livia Marcia not being prorogued, Gens Clodia sent a group
> > letter of
> > > > complaint to the Senate. As one of this years consuls I sent
> them
> > a reply
> > > to
> > > > this effect:
> > > >
> > > > Livia Marcia was not *removed* as Praetor, she simply failed to
> > carry a
> > > > majority vote in the Senate at this time. She therefore could
> not
> > be
> > > > *automatically* prorogued as Praetor of America
> > Austroccidentalis. The
> > > vote
> > > > on her was tied, 5 to 5, with four Senators unable to vote on
> > time due to
> > > > various circumstances, and three others abstaining.
> > > >
> > > > The fact that this vote was tied was more an unfortunate
> accident
> > than
> > > > anything else. Senator Vado, her most vocal supporter in the
> > Senate,
> > > failed
> > > > to vote on time, and her own Paterfamilias neither voted nor
> > commented on
> > > the
> > > > situation at all. The other two Senators absent were almost
> > assured to
> > > have
> > > > voted for her as well.
> > > >
> > > > The good news was that a tied vote, while not being an automatic
> > > continuance,
> > > > was also most definitely *not* a refusal to have her as
> Praetor.
> > It simply
> > > > meant that by law the Senate would have to vote on the
> > Praetorship of
> > > > America Austroccidentalis again. In another vote her supporters
> > would no
> > > > doubt make greater pains to attend the vote, and she would be
> > assured of
> > > the
> > > > position.
> > > >
> > > > I therefore asked Gens Claudia specifically to encourage Livia
> > Marcia to
> > > > continue her application for the Praetorship. I even went so
> far
> > as to
> > > tell
> > > > them that I would be voting for her. I also asked them (as I
> had
> > asked
> > > Livia
> > > > Marcia directly) to stay in touch with the Senate on a couple
> of
> > issues.
> > > > There had been questions on a couple of matters which Livia had
> > not
> > > responded
> > > > to, and it was that lack of response that had caused the three
> > > "abstentions"
> > > > on her vote.
> > > >
> > > > I believe it was Clodia Cinnabari herself who responded to my
> > letter,
> > > > thanking me for my detailed personal response. She seemed
> pleased
> > with the
> > > > information and advice I had given, and mentioned that she
> would
> > take it
> > > to
> > > > Livia Marcia Aurelia.
> > > >
> > > > Rather than continuing her application for Praetorship, Livia
> > Marcia
> > > Aurelia
> > > > decided to resign her Citizenship on March 15th. While I find
> > this very
> > > > unfortunate, I cannot see her action as anything but a decision
> > not to
> > > accept
> > > > a position that was still very open to her.
> > > >
> > > > It is my personal hope that the facts above will help put this
> > issue
> > > behind
> > > > us. To recap: the vote on Livia Aurelia was tied, she was
> > not "removed".
> > > She
> > > > chose to leave Nova Roma rather than participate in the second
> > vote on the
> > > > matter required by law.
> > > >
> > > > Valete,
> > > >
> > > > Marcus Cassius Julianus
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] Codex (was RE: Keeping citizens interested) |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Apr 2001 09:44:21 -0400 |
|
Salvete;
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Craig Stevenson [mailto:dougies@--------]
> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 09:08
>
> That's a great idea, about the codex. I think perhaps the duty should go
to
> either the Aedilies or praetores. Given the ideas that are floating around
that
> there is not much to do or the aediles, perhaps they should be given the
job?
Indeed, the Aediles were the first thing that popped into my head, as well.
But I hesitated to suggest them definitively as the compilers, if only
because their role in the legal system as a whole is still being defined
(and thus they could end up too busy for such things!), and pending doing
some research about how the codici were compiled in ancient times.
It's great when we can work on such positive and useful things, dontcha
think?
Next year in the Forum!
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul
email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
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|
| Subject: |
Re: Activity (was Re: [novaroma] Re: Conflict of Interest) |
| From: |
Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Apr 2001 09:23:33 -0500 (CDT) |
|
Salve Sexte Apolloni,
> But if people will break their oath of office, shall Iuppiter strike them
> down with lightning? I think my argument is still standing: a pious and
> righteous person doesn't need an oath to prove his trustworthiness and piety
> regarding Roma and the Pantheon, while an impious villain doesn't need it
> either - he's going to break that oath anyway.
Many people tend to be pious and righteous most of the time, but due to
occasional failings of willpower might succumb to the temptation to
do evil. An Oath, whether to a god or to oneself, can serve as a
reminder in such times that a person has previously chosen the path
of honor and right action, and its recollection can be an aid in
resisting the urge to do wrong.
None of us here are perfect, and we need such aids as the magistrate's
oath and the Roman Virtues to help us choose right action.
Vale, Octavius.
--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Votes are needing! |
| From: |
"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Apr 2001 09:08:47 -0500 |
|
Good day, my comments below;
GMC;
>
> Next think is, that it is not perfectly clear what candidates wants
> achieve when they reach their magistratures. I deeply respect Q.
> Sertorius but I don't know about his plans. What you want to achieve
> and realize as tribune Quintus? Why should I have vote you? Maybe I
> missed your program in mail list, but I'm sure not the only one. It
> could increase number of voting citizens if candidates will advertise
> his programs and plans.
>
> Valete
>
> Gaius Marcius Coriolanus
> Paterfamilias Gens Marcia
> Legatus Pannoniae Inferioris
>
QS;
I made my Candidates Statement, and I will repost it here, for those who may
have missed it, and for those who just.... LOVE to read it!!! ;-)
QS
CANDIDATES STATEMENT
First of all I would like to tell everyone that I am very honored to be
able to run for the Position of Tribune of the Plebs. I will pledge to all
that should I win; all duties of the office will be executed to the best of
my abilities. Those of you that know me will understand that I stand by what
I believe, and I believe in Roma! I believe that we must watch over our
Republic, and ensure that she develops into as true a representation of Old
Roma as possible. We in Nova Roma do not have the same luxury as our
forbears in Old Roma, in that they had many generations to expand and
consolidate.
Because of technology, our entire Republic operates, as Old Roma never
could. Our Micro-nation is growing quickly, and there nothing wrong with
expansion, but we must always beware of being blinded by the light of all
our individual dreams of what we want Nova Roma to be. We have lost some
good people of late, and some of the departures were due to disillusionment
over our development. We must not think that we are able to fill every
institution, and make great leaps in administrative organization. This is
only possible after many trials and tribulations.
What we must do in order to ensure our future is to always keep our eyes on
the Traditions of Old Rome, and only make developments after deciding that
we are upholding those traditions. It would be a shame if after the passage
of some time, because of our desire for change, we find ourselves with a
Micro-nation that is a shell of those great institutions of Old Roma. This
will be the close of my first address to the people, in the hopes that it
has made you aware of the great seriousness of what it is we are working
toward. Once more thank you for your time.
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Govenors Removed? |
| From: |
ksterne@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 06 Apr 2001 14:40:18 -0000 |
|
Salve Marcus Audens,
Well said Quirite! You appear to be a man of the virtues of old
Roma. I hope to meet you in person one day.
Vale,
Gaius Popillius Laenas
Citizen
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] IVALID VOTER CODES |
| From: |
"A. Cato" <a.cato@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Apr 2001 11:48:15 -0400 |
|
Salvet Omnes: Please take note of the follwing Tracking Numbers. They represent Invalid Voter Codes. I ask that the citizens who who have these Tracking Numbers please check that they are using the proper Voter Code and try to vote again. If for some reason, you still have trouble, please contact the Censores or Rogatores. Ave atque vale, Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato
Rogator
# 5037, # 5046, # 5050, # 5059, # 5060, # 5066, # 5071, # 5072, # 5079, # 5081, # 5082
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] re: Invalid Voter Codes |
| From: |
"A. Cato" <a.cato@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Apr 2001 11:51:14 -0400 |
|
Salve: Oops, Typo! I of course meant INVALID in my last post. :-) Vale, Cato, Rogator
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] re: Invalid Voter Codes |
| From: |
"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Apr 2001 10:40:25 -0500 |
|
Boy was I worried when I saw that first post!!! ;-) Would have been a poor
turn out! :-P Heh heh.
QS
----- Original Message -----
From: "A. Cato" <a.cato@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 10:51 AM
Subject: [novaroma] re: Invalid Voter Codes
> Salve: Oops, Typo! I of course meant INVALID in my last post. :-) Vale,
Cato, Rogator
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Taxes |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Apr 2001 12:22:18 -0400 |
|
Flavius Vedius Germanicus novaromanis S.P.D.
I wanted to revisit the idea of taxes/membership dues/etc., as the subject
has been mentioned earlier today in a post by Marcus Audens, and it seemed
like a good thing to take a cue from such a statesman as he.
I gathered from the discussion several weeks ago that the general consensus
was that taxes (perhaps better thought of as a membership fee) in and of
themselves were a good and justified thing. Certainly the amount that had
been suggested by myself (US$12 per year) did not seem excessive to most
people, especially when compared to membership dues paid to organizations
such as Mensa ($49 per year) or the SCA ($35 per year). Special rates for
families, full-time students, and persons living on fixed incomes could of
course also be adopted.
Initially, the money would be used to fund both a Latin composition contest
for high-school students, and to subsidize an archaeological dig at some
Roman site next year. There would be enough left over for our Land Fund and
endowment, and generally start us on the road to fiscal soundness.
Taxes would not be mandatory for all citizens, but those who declined to pay
taxes during a given year would be placed in the urban tribes (along with
non-voters) and a specially-designated Century (or perhaps a couple of
Centuries). Thus, everyone would be able to participate in Nova Roman
society, but the voting clout of those who do not contribute to the
financial health of the Republic would be limited. Naturally, they would
still be free to excercise their rights to free speech to influence votes
and elections...
Ultimately, the whole question of taxes, rates, and collection mechanisms
will be decided by the Senate (as it is their Constitutional duty to do so),
but as Consul I thought it would be best to get input from the people before
bringing a proposal for a vote.
There are, of course, several questions that remained unanswered. Chief
among them were the problem for persons living outside the U.S. with regards
to local conditions, and the lack of steady funds for provincial and local
governments (since the taxes would all be going to the central government,
to fund national programs).
I believe, thanks to an idea spawned in a conversation yesterday with
Pontius Sejanus Marius, that those two problems can be addressed by the
application of a single mechanism.
It is, of course, true that a provincial governor is going to have more
first-hand knowledge of the financial conditions within his or her province.
Such was recognized in last year's Senatus Consultum which set up a
framework for taxation (proposed by Quintus Fabius, in which governors made
recommendations to the Senate regarding what the tax rate should be, and
then retained 10% of all taxes paid through them). It is also, of course,
true that as our provincial administrations become more and more developed,
they will become more and more important and active in the everyday lives of
our Citizens. Such is already beginning to happen. (Eventually, I would also
like to see a similar decentralization from the provinces to local chapters,
but that's another topic...)
My thought is thus: what if the Senate were to set a "baseline" tax rate for
the nation, to which the provincial governors could then add their own
provincial tax rate? Any taxes levied by the province in excess of the
baseline would be used to fund the provincial treasury and any activities
the province might wish to support. Naturally, there would be a limit on how
much a given province could add on to the baseline (say, 100%, so I as
governor of Mediatlantica could only levy a maximum of $24 per year should I
wish to use the maximum, while a governor of a less economically well-off
province could simply go with the baseline and collect $12 per citizen).
In essence, each province sets its own taxes, a set portion of which
(between half and all, depending on the province) goes to the central
government. Naturally, we might want to discuss nudging the baseline down
from $12 to maybe $10 or $8, but that's a detail that can be discussed if
the general principle is thought sound.
This, I believe, solves a number of problems. It affords a great deal of
flexibility to the provincial governors in determining taxes (which could be
adjusted to reflect the economic realities of their provincia) without the
Senate having to consider each one on a case-by-case basis, affords the
provinces a means to collect funds that would stay local and support local
projects (although nothing says funds from the central government couldn't
be used for provincial projects, depending on the circumstances), and yet
still provides the central government a means by which national programs
could be funded.
In short, this seems to afford us a maximum of flexibility and a stable
income, while at the same time encouraging local activity and autonomy at
the provincial level.
I encourage any comments, suggestions, etc. on this idea (as well as any
aspect of the whole question of taxes/membership dues). There's no
particular rush, as I feel this of all the issues before the public should
be thoroughly discussed before anything is brought to a vote, but I would
like to keep the discourse going.
Next year in the Forum!
Vale,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul
email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Taxes |
| From: |
ksterne@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 06 Apr 2001 16:30:52 -0000 |
|
Salve Esteemed Consul,
Granted I speak as a relative "newbie", but it seems to me the
proposal for taxation (I don't find the word offensive, we are a
nation after all) has been discussed, seems to be well thought out,
and is timely for formal action.
I urge you to go forward with the same.
vale,
Gaius Popillius Laenas
Citizen
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: [AmBor_Waves] More Pleb Votes Needed |
| From: |
"william wheeler" <holyconelia@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 06 Apr 2001 16:36:49 -0000 |
|
DO NOT KEEP CROSSPOSTING STOP IT
>From: "Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@-------->
>Reply-To: AmBor_Waves@--------
>To: <ThuleNovaRoma@-------->, <NRHispania@-------->,
><NR_CanOcc@-------->, <NR_Austroccidentalis@-------->,
><NR_Australia@-------->, <GreatLakesNovaRoma@egroups.com>,
><G-M-Clan@-------->, <ComitiaPlebisTributa@-------->,
><Canada_Orientalis_NR@-------->, <CaliforniaNovaRoma@egroups.com>,
><AmBor_Waves@-------->, <novaroma@-------->
>Subject: [AmBor_Waves] More Pleb Votes Needed
>Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 08:37:08 -0500
>
>5 April 2001
>
>Salve All
>
>This is an appeal to all Plebeian voters. Please get out and vote!!!.. The
>best chance for every individual citizen to have a direct say in how they
>are governed, is though our elective process! So, get out and vote!! This
>is a major problem with us, we do not participate enough in our own
>Elections! Those of us who have already voted, contact others to see if
>they to have voted and to have them pass this info along. Here is the link
>once more; http://www.novaroma.org/cursus_honorum/voting/ . If there are
>any questions concerning voter codes, please contact the Censors at;
>(censors@--------) . Forward this email on to any citizens you feel
>have not voted. Thank you.
>
>Vale
>
>Quintus Sertorius
>
>Queastor
>Nova Roma
>Propraetor
>Canada Occidentalis
>
>Join the Main List for Nova Roma
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
>
>Join the egroup for Canada Occidentalis
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_CanOcc
>
>Join the egroup for the Quintus Sertorius of Old Rome
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sertorii
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Marcus Cornelius Felix
Pontitff
Legate America Boreoccidentalis Minore
Sacerdos Primus America Boreoccidentalis
_________________________________________________________________
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Elucidation is needed here, I think! |
| From: |
darkelf@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 06 Apr 2001 16:37:46 -0000 |
|
Salve Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura:
To be fair, several of the Senators have been forthcoming on the
the Livia incident, including that ex-citizen who was the governor
of Britannia. While I am not sure anyone knows the full story, the
fact is that our province got hurt in the crossfire. I did and do
appreciate those Senators who took time to answer Clodian
concerns on the matter. I do not find myself agreeing with some
of the reasoning, but at least I understand it better now.
I did ask Livia to reconsider her reapplication; she declined. I
think the mass exodus in March was also terribly unfortunate,
and cost NR rather a lot. Livia's gone. Vado and Piscinus are.
Their loss may be a source of rejoicing for some; for some
others of us, it's rather a source of sorrow.
I am consistently amazed at the snipes some (thankfully rare)
people will take at the departed, which was what sparked my
post yesterday to Germanicus regarding his snide crack about
Vado's worthiness as governor (and not Livia's
not-removel-but-not-approval, either). Since I am not a Senator
and only mere cives, the public actions of those people are the
only think by which I have to judge them. Backbiting should not
be a Roman virtue.
Vale,
P. Clodia Cinnabari
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Codex |
| From: |
=?iso-8859-1?q?Tiberius=20Apollonius=20Cicatrix?= <consulromanus@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Apr 2001 10:00:34 -0700 (PDT) |
|
>Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote:
>
>"...One question; who would be in charge of
>maintaining and updating such a Codex? The praetores,
>aediles, their scribes, or a new magistracy under the
>vigintisexviri? Where did such codici come from in
>Roma Antiqua?"
Salve,
As far as I know out of my lessons in classical
history (about inscriptions in the 1st to 3rd century)
this year at the university, those codici were made at
the central government in Rome. Officially they were
written down 'by the emperor' (of course his servants
did the work).
In the imperial times there were also the vigintiviri,
twenty senatorial officers, of which there were ten
with judicial powers (decemviri stlitibus iudicandis).
Those magistracies can be created to maintain the
codex.
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
=====
"De te autem, Catilina, cum quiescunt, probant; cum patiuntur, decernunt; cum tacent, clamant." (M. Tullius Cicero: In Catilinam I, 20)
__________________________________________________
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|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] Govenors Removed? |
| From: |
"Oppius Flaccus Severus" <oppiusflaccus@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Apr 2001 10:19:14 -0700 |
|
Salvete Consul Audens et Quiritibus;
As always, your statesmanship shines through the
wise and tempered words of your post. As always, you
raise a good many key points. As so many of them have
been so well and clearly addressed, I direct my
attention to just a few comments below:
-----Original Message-----
From: jmath669642reng@-------- [mailto:jmath669642reng@--------]
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 11:24 PM
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: [novaroma] Govenors Removed?
<snipped>
Marcus Audens:
As long as we have in our midst those who will not stoop to "till the
fields, that they would have others plow" things will always be very
slow. We currently have almost half a hundred citizens discussing,
sometimes in heated terms, whether or not Nova Roma should buy an island
or a place on the Mainland for it's first physical home. Meanwhile there
has been before the Citizens for several months a proposal for a very
moderate tax which has been ignored. The tax (or dues, or registration
fee or whatever) is for the purpose of beginning to establish a building
fund for just the purpose of purchasing such a physical home, but it
seems that few in Nova Roma are able to tie the two elements together.
OFS: I fully agree and since I've started this response, Consul
Germanicus has posted an excellent synopsis of the issue which begs
further support and comment. For this context however, I would like
to submit that the word 'Tax' be eliminated from revenue discussions.
Normally my 'call them like I see them' nature has no problem with
such semantics, but there are just plain too many negative connotations
associated with that word.
As for membership fees; per Germanicus' post; the general consensus
seems to be 'yes,' though the terms and amounts are still up for
debate. Though it may upset a few cives when I say this; *any*
organization worthy of membership has some sort of membership
fee attached to it. It matters not where its members hail from;
be they US, Europa, Africa, South America, etc. If one joins
an organization based say in the UK, then one is asked to remit
membership fees based on that rate of exchange -and dependent
on the organization in question, possibly in that currency as well.
It has been said by myself and others a multitude of times -we
cannot grow without funds people and if you don't want to contribute;
then perhaps it is time to move elsewhere. More on this in
response to Germanicus' post.
Marcus Audens:
I do not speak often here on the Main List anymore, but I have promised
myself not to stop all together. That would in all likelihood make too
many people happy (Grin!!!!!!!). Yet, I am always surprised anew that
so many people believe that so few people will create for them a place
like the Nova Roma that they envision, all the while criticizing the few
for the doing of it.
OFS: I for one hope you continue posting to the list as often
as possible. We all benefit from a wide range of perspectives.
Yours are always very highly valued!
Marcus Audens:
I have called for those to come forth to put together a Newsletter and
from the hundreds of Citizens and Skills we have garnered four who are
willing. I and others have called for assistance to fill Province
Staffs and to Staff a Sodalitas for Nova Roma Outreach and the mailboxes
are empty.
OFS: I might put forth a slightly contrary vision, but in so doing
I still support the message behind what you're saying here.
In reference to the Outreach Sodalitas; I can assume you're referring
to the Egressus. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.) Speaking as someone
who tried to contribute to same, at least in my experience I posted
some (what I thought to be anyway,) very detailed posts on recruiting
strategies and so forth. As did your inbox remain empty, so did mine.
This is not to point any fingers; in fact more than once I've ignored
or just outright missed for one reason or another that were thoughtful
and worthy of comment. Ultimately, I just unsubscribed from
Egressus in frustration. -I'm sure I'm not the only one who has
lived this story.
My point being that, (and in support of your general statement,) is
that this is indeed an all-too-common situation in *all* the Sodalitas
and various groups.
Marcus Audens:
The old answer "I am too busy" seems to be the panacea for all such
questions, but ask for some ideas, for "others" to carry out and these
ideas come in by the bagful. Not that Nova Roma does not need new
ideas, but in addition to ideas we need a five to one ratio of workers
to ideas. With that kind of ratio Nova Roma could easiy gain 5 years in
one 12 month calendar period, but such will not happen until the ratio
of workers to ideas reverses. Instead of five ideas to one worker it
must be the other way around.
OFS: Yes, the old adage 'too many chiefs and too few Indians' comes
to mind here. Even among those who consider themselves the 'most active,'
there's always room for additional effort. Having been an outspoken
advocate of citizen involvement myself, I can only laud your statements.
However, due to our early stages of growth (excellent and positive
growth to be sure, but still early,) we don't have the types of
micro-management available to manage tasks and projects properly.
This is changing a little I think, as the various provinces become
more organized; but the fact is that many of the current projects
that are part of NR today, are too broad for most of the busy people
to get their arms around.
Most of us here I think, are by nature very busy, active and involved
people at our respective macronational levels. Many have families, many
have to hold more than one job, many have to extensively travel, etc.
Many just don't have the luxury of retirement or a lot of extra time.
In America Boreoccidentalis for instance, one of the questions we asked
on our recent poll was 'how many hours per month do you have to
devote to Nova Roman projects.' Though the results have not yet come
in, I think that most people have a handful at best. -Coupled with
the fact that we are a strictly volunteer organization, it's hard
to expect too much. This is a realization I'm increasingly arriving
at, as my own involvement in NR has fluctuated quite a bit with
macronational issues. Being my first active volunteer organization,
it has definitely been a learning experience in time management! :-)
That being said, the trick it seems is to come up with very small-slices
of projects that can be distributed amongst a great many people. To
build on your newsletter idea, perhaps instead of writing whole articles,
cives could contribute some photographs. Or, work collaboratively
on a small series of articles on a particular topic. One civis writes
part of a single story (or does the research,) one writes the story
itself, another proofreads and makes changes/additions, etc.
Such activities would especially benefit the younger cives or those
that are not able to become active in politics as of yet.
Marcus Audens:
In regard to the question "Patrician or Plebian" I am Patrician, raised
to that position for the honor of my industry in Nova Roma. My
anchestor was a Plebian. I honor my anchestor and I believe that the
honor given me derives also upon him and his memory. However, I am sure
that my ancestor Marcus Minucius Audens, Legionary of the XXth Legio,
Miles Immunes Gromaciti and a long=term soldier of the Empire, would not
approve of me should I not be interested in the problems of the Plebians
in Nova Roma. No, I can no longer vote, but I would ask those who say
that Patricians have no place in Plebian affairs if they think that the
honor of an award for industry takes away the interest of he who is so
honored??
OFS: As far as Patricians and Plebeians, we are all in this together
and by the nature of our organization have many cross-purposes. I do
think it's indeed wise for us all to remember this. My request of
Patricians (as a Plebeian myself,) would be to take an advisory role
(as wise and tempered advice is *always* needed, regardless of the
circumstances,) but to try and address issues as a whole. For instance,
if two citizens share similar offices and responsibilities and are
running for a second or third, address an open letter to both.
If a candidate has a particular proposal, try to decide (and help
us as Plebeians decide,) whether the proposal has merit. In short,
truly wise and helpful advice should be welcome in any circle, regardless
of source.
Bene valete,
Oppius Flaccus Severus, Legatus America Boreoccidentalis Major
Sacerdos Neptunus
<snipped>
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] CANADA OCCIDENTALIS EDICTA NUMBER ELEVEN |
| From: |
"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Apr 2001 12:03:59 -0500 |
|
CANADA OCCIDENTALIS EDICTA NUMBER ELEVEN
PROPRAETORS STAFF POSITIONS
6 Apr 2001
Salve All
I, Quintus Sertorius, Propraetor Canada Occidentalis, issue the following Edicta to announce the formal adoption of staff positions for the Propraetor Office;
-Legate in each Regio of the Provincia.
-Provincial Quaestor (financial advisor).
-Provincial Cornicularius (Advjutant).
-Provincial Religio Advisor (Chaplin).
-Provincial Aedile (Actitivies Advisor
-Two additional members for the Procvincia Newsletter Staff (Reporters).
Vale
Quintus Sertorius
Quaestor
Propraetor
Canada Occidentalis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] Codex |
| From: |
"Oppius Flaccus Severus" <oppiusflaccus@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Apr 2001 10:37:26 -0700 |
|
Salvete Quiritibus;
In regards to the Codex, it might be useful to
engage some of the younger members of NR (perhaps
ones that are non-voting as of yet,) to act
as scribae for this project. It would provide
an invaluable learning opportunity for potential
future offices, and would also provide a solid
venue of involvement for those whom think they
might have no other way of participation.
Since this would be a new project, it could perhaps
tie in to the comments I made in response to Senator
Audens' post regarding project management.
Just a thought.
Bene valete,
-Oppius
-----Original Message-----
From: Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix [mailto:consulromanus@--------]
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 10:01 AM
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Codex
>Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote:
>
>"...One question; who would be in charge of
>maintaining and updating such a Codex? The praetores,
>aediles, their scribes, or a new magistracy under the
>vigintisexviri? Where did such codici come from in
>Roma Antiqua?"
Salve,
As far as I know out of my lessons in classical
history (about inscriptions in the 1st to 3rd century)
this year at the university, those codici were made at
the central government in Rome. Officially they were
written down 'by the emperor' (of course his servants
did the work).
In the imperial times there were also the vigintiviri,
twenty senatorial officers, of which there were ten
with judicial powers (decemviri stlitibus iudicandis).
Those magistracies can be created to maintain the
codex.
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
=====
"De te autem, Catilina, cum quiescunt, probant; cum patiuntur, decernunt; cum
tacent, clamant." (M. Tullius Cicero: In Catilinam I, 20)
__________________________________________________
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Keeping citizens interested (was Re: Conflict of Interest) |
| From: |
Fortunatus <labienus@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 06 Apr 2001 12:51:07 -0500 |
|
Salvete Luci Corneli et Quirites
> But, I think a way to overcome part of this is through the
> establishment of a time honored Roman tradition of patron/client
> relationship. I am not saying that we should follow every aspect of
> what it was like in ancient rome..but more like a tutelage. Where a
> newer member of Nova Roma is taken under the wing of an "old-timer"
> and is taught what being in NR is about, how the political system
> works, and why it works that way....etc.
The problem with the patron-client relationship is that it is predicated
upon an unequal transaction. The patron gives his or her advice,
protection, and political aid in return for loyalty and political and
other aid from the client. This is, essentially, influence peddling,
and it is institutionalized corruption.
Surely such mentorship can be achieved through newer cives who are
interested in running for office serving as scribae and accensi,
preferably for a variety of magistrates, prior to actually standing for
office. In this way, they can see what the duties of a given office are
and learn how to fulfill them without incurring the kind of debt that
clientela involves.
Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus
--
"People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach
conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant."
-Helen Keller
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Roman Days |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Apr 2001 14:42:25 -0400 |
|
Salvete omnes!
It is with great pleasure that I would like make the following announcements
in regards to this year's Roman Days event sponsored by Legio XX in Glenn
Dale, Maryland (June 9-10).
I. For those people driving down to Roman Days from New Jersey and points
north, we are arranging a caravan starting in New Jersey. Currently, the
plan is to meet on the NJ Turnpike (I-95) at an appointed time at a rest
stop for lunch, and then all travel down together. If anyone is interested
in joining the caravan, please email me at germanicus@--------
II. Lucilla Cornelia Fortunata has arranged for a block of rooms at the
nearby Red Roof Inn to be available at a 15% discounted rate for Roman Days
attendees. Before calling the hotel, however, you must contact her to get
the proper reservation code. Anyone interested should email Lucilla Cornelia
at lucillacornelia@-------- My thanks to her for all the hard work she put
into arranging the discounted rooms.
III. With the gracious assistance of our Senate and several citizens who
have volunteered donations to the cause, Nova Roma will be hosting a
hospitality suite for all participants of Roman Days at the Red Roof Inn on
Saturday night (the party will start after the conclusion of Merlynia's
excellent dinner on-site). Everyone, Nova Roman or not (especially not!) is
invited to enjoy our hospitality.
IV. Anyone who lives in the area who would be willing to assist with
publicizing the event, please let me know as soon as possible
(germanicus@--------).
More information on the event itself (which is usually a blast and which
should not be missed if it can be avoided) can be found at Legio XX's
website at http://www.larp.com/legioxx/. Together, I think we can make this
year's event the best ever!
Next year in the Forum!
Vale,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul
email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Old Business II: Resignation Edict |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Apr 2001 14:50:02 -0400 |
|
Flavius Vedius Germanicus novaromanis S.P.D.
As I mentioned in my previous email, this is the second of the measures
which were supposed to have been voted on in the comitia last year, but for
whatever reason were not. I am including it here to allow for easier
discussion. I intend to include it in the next vote of the Comitia, which
right now I am penciling in for June or July (barring any emergencies that
need attention).
-----
EDICTUM CENSORIAL DE CIVITATE EIURANDA
RESIGNATION OF CITIZENSHIP IN NOVAROMA
AUGUST 27, 2000
Resignation of citizenship from Nova Roma, as stated in the constitution of
Nova Roma (IIA4), is effected by notification to the censores, or by
declaration before three or more witnesses. Messages posted on the main Nova
Roman e-mail list, and on the Nova Roman message board, meet the requirement
for three witnesses to a resignation; messages posted to minority lists,
regional, belonging to sodalitates or other such lists or boards, do not
meet the requirement for three witnesses to a resignation.
When a citizen resigns citizenship in Nova Roma, the resignation will not
take effect for nine days from the date of submitting the message, counting
inclusively of the date of submitting the message. If, during this nundina,
the citizen desires to withdraw his or her resignation and remain a citizen,
that citizen may freely do so without penalty, except as defined in the next
paragraph. The citizen can withdraw the resignation by notifying the
censores of his/her desire to withdraw the resignation, by at least the same
channel that he/she used to submit the resignation. For example, if a
citizen submits a message to the e-mail address of the censores, currently
censors@--------, stating that he/she resigns, then the citizen must
e-mail the censores by the same address to withdraw the resignation.
If a currently serving magistrate submits and withdraws multiple
resignations of citizenship within the same calendar year, the censores will
have grounds, after a closed hearing at which the magistrate will have
opportunity to present reasoning for his/her actions, to issue an edictum
against the magistrate rendering him/her ineligible to run for elected
office for one year. Should the magistrate believe that he/she has a case
for appeal of such an edictum, he/she can appeal to a Tribunus Plebis,
Praetor or Consul within 30 days of issuance of the edictum as follows---
If Plebeian, either to a Tribunus Plebis to bring the appeal to the Comitia
Plebis Tributa or to a Praetor or Consul to bring the appeal to the Comitia
Populi Tributa
If Patrician, to a Praetor or Consul to bring the appeal to the Comitia
Populi Tributa
Note that the decision to convene these comitia, along with the schedule for
doing so, is the purview of the tribuni, consules and praetores, and is
therefore beyond the scope of this edict
When a citizen resigns citizenship in Nova Roma, and the resignation becomes
official after nine days, the ex-citizen is barred from reapplication and
reinstatement for a period of six months, effective from the date his or her
resignation became official.
(For example, if a citizen resigned on May 1 2000, and his resignation
became official on May 9, 2000, he could not be reinstated until November 9,
2000)
The ex-citizen, in the event that he desires to reacquire citizenship, must
apply in the same fashion as any other person desirous of citizenship would,
with the exception that he/she is directed to state in his/her application
the reasons behind his/her resignation and decision to reverse the
resignation and come back. His/her Roman name may be resumed if no other
citizen of Nova Roma has taken it up in his/her absence. No public offices,
titles or century points carry over to the returning citizen, with the
exception of any religious title and corresponding century points that may
be specified by the Collegium Pontificum. Senatorial status may be resumed
at the discretion of both the Senate and of the censores collegially. Gens
affiliation in all instances remains at the discretion of the pater or
materfamilias.
If a citizen resigns, is subsequently reinstated, and resigns a second time,
that ex-citizen is barred for two years from reinstatement. Such a citizen
is furthermore barred from running for any elected public office for two
years following re-admission, with no recourse.
If a citizen resigns, is subsequently reinstated, and resigns a second time,
is subsequently reinstated, and resigns a third time, that ex-citizen is
barred forever from reinstatement. The ex-citizen has despised his
citizenship and shown contempt for the state: he may never be reinstated
thereafter.
The Censors will note the dates of submitted and withdrawn resignations in
the censorial album civium.
-----
Next year in the Forum!
Vale,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul
email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] CANADA OCCIDENTALIS EDICTA NUMBER ELEVEN |
| From: |
"Lucius Mauricius Procopious" <procopious@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Apr 2001 11:52:19 -0700 |
|
Salvete Omnes,
What would be the duties of the Cornicularis?
Next year in the Forum!
Lucius Mauricius Procopious
Propraetor America Boreoccidentalis
(This is an unofficial post for which I assume full responsibility)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
procopious@--------
ICQ# 83516618
*America Boreoccidentalis Mail List
http://www.egroups.com/group/AmBor_Waves
* The Gens Mauricia
http://www.geocities.com/procopious
"Indeed, it is not by the plans of men, but by the hand of God that the
affairs of men are directed; and this men call Fate, not knowing the reason
for what things they see occur; and what seems to be without cause is easy
to call the accident of chance. Still, this is a matter every mortal will
decide for himself according to his taste."
-Procopius of Caesarea (in Palestine) [born c.490/507- died c.560s]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@-------->
To: <NR_CanOccAdmin@-------->; <NR_CanOcc@-------->;
<novaroma@-------->
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 10:03 AM
Subject: [novaroma] CANADA OCCIDENTALIS EDICTA NUMBER ELEVEN
> CANADA OCCIDENTALIS EDICTA NUMBER ELEVEN
> PROPRAETORS STAFF POSITIONS
>
> 6 Apr 2001
>
> Salve All
>
> I, Quintus Sertorius, Propraetor Canada Occidentalis, issue the following
Edicta to announce the formal adoption of staff positions for the Propraetor
Office;
>
> -Legate in each Regio of the Provincia.
>
> -Provincial Quaestor (financial advisor).
>
> -Provincial Cornicularius (Advjutant).
>
> -Provincial Religio Advisor (Chaplin).
>
> -Provincial Aedile (Actitivies Advisor
>
> -Two additional members for the Procvincia Newsletter Staff (Reporters).
>
> Vale
>
> Quintus Sertorius
>
> Quaestor
>
> Propraetor
>
> Canada Occidentalis
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
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|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] Taxes |
| From: |
"Oppius Flaccus Severus" <oppiusflaccus@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Apr 2001 11:52:42 -0700 |
|
Salvete Consul Germanice et Quiritibus;
-----Original Message-----
From: Flavius Vedius Germanicus [mailto:germanicus@--------]
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 9:22 AM
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: [novaroma] Taxes
Flavius Vedius Germanicus novaromanis S.P.D.
<snipped>
I gathered from the discussion several weeks ago that the general consensus
was that taxes (perhaps better thought of as a membership fee) in and of
themselves were a good and justified thing. Certainly the amount that had
been suggested by myself (US$12 per year) did not seem excessive to most
people, especially when compared to membership dues paid to organizations
such as Mensa ($49 per year) or the SCA ($35 per year). Special rates for
families, full-time students, and persons living on fixed incomes could of
course also be adopted.
OFS: Though I've spoken on this before, now seems like as good a time
as any to revisit. Prior to doing so, I'd like to make clear that it's
not my intention to do disservice to those on limited incomes, to those from
countries with low national incomes. (These are not my terms, just ones
that have been used in conjunction with this issue before.) Thoughts:
1-We're non-profit, but that doesn't mean that we have to lower our
financial standards of membership. Per my response to Senator Audens, *any*
organization of import or recognition has a membership fee attached
to it. Also as mentioned there, I personally think it might be a good
idea to drop the word 'tax' from these discussions; at least until the
fundraising system gets off the ground a bit. -'Tax' has too many
negative connotations. -Just my thoughts.
2-Though I'm admittedly no expert on managing a non-profit organization,
I would think that any organization that tries to micromanage exchange
rates, age-based rates, income-based rates, GDP-based rates and the like
are in for a whole lot of headache. Compounded with the fact, that banks
typically charge additional fees for certain types of transactions.
Setting the financial target too low might create more problems than
it would solve.
3-Collection rates should be based on US dollars for now, but we could
add additional exchange rates in the future as needed. If we adopt
a credit-card pay option, or use some form of our current 'Pay Pal,'
then exchange rates are handled automatically by the credit card
company and member banks. -It would be transparent to the user.
4-To bypass the whole issue of various payment scales, going back to
your points regarding maybe a couple of varying grades of memberships.
This presents the option for cives who wish to spend less, without
worrying about issues of stigma such as individual income levels and
so forth. Perhaps the following:
-Golden (life) membership: $1200 (Might include flags, t-shirts,
coinage, plaques, etc.) The grand daddy of all memberships. Maybe
even some books/videos and the like could be included.
This rate is calculated by taking $20/year multiplied by 60
-Silver (annual, individual): $30 (might include a subscription
the "Eagle," a t-shirt or flag.
-Family (annual)Perhaps to an individual family or as a Gens. $60
Maybe includes two shirts and some coinage.
-Junior (individual): $20 Maybe a membership certificate and that's
about it.
My only humble request Quirites; is that if you decide to decimate me
for suggesting such things, please include alternative suggestions :-)
Initially, the money would be used to fund both a Latin composition contest
for high-school students, and to subsidize an archaeological dig at some
Roman site next year. There would be enough left over for our Land Fund and
endowment, and generally start us on the road to fiscal soundness.
OFS: An excellent suggestion! Provides a growth stimulus for us
and increases our reputation in the international community.
Taxes would not be mandatory for all citizens, but those who declined to pay
taxes during a given year would be placed in the urban tribes (along with
non-voters) and a specially-designated Century (or perhaps a couple of
Centuries). Thus, everyone would be able to participate in Nova Roman
society, but the voting clout of those who do not contribute to the
financial health of the Republic would be limited. Naturally, they would
still be free to exercise their rights to free speech to influence votes
and elections...
OFS: I'd go one further: annual dues should be a requirement.
Those that opt not to pay could be placed on some sort of limited
probation.
Ultimately, the whole question of taxes, rates, and collection mechanisms
will be decided by the Senate (as it is their Constitutional duty to do so),
but as Consul I thought it would be best to get input from the people before
bringing a proposal for a vote.
OFS: Gratias multas. We welcome the chance!
There are, of course, several questions that remained unanswered. Chief
among them were the problem for persons living outside the U.S. with regards
to local conditions, and the lack of steady funds for provincial and local
governments (since the taxes would all be going to the central government,
to fund national programs).
OFS: Some of this can be addressed by the membership fees.
Perhaps similar to macronational funds, there could be a
'provincial' fund where monies are allocated evenly across
provinces after the initial national budget had been satisfied.
>From there, additional provincial funds could be raised in a variety
of ways, including contributions for events or raffles,
membership drives (perhaps with every new membership
fee that is raised in a provincial membership drive, $3 or $4
per new civis could be directed back to the province.
<snipped>
My thought is thus: what if the Senate were to set a "baseline" tax rate for
the nation, to which the provincial governors could then add their own
provincial tax rate? Any taxes levied by the province in excess of the
baseline would be used to fund the provincial treasury and any activities
the province might wish to support. Naturally, there would be a limit on how
much a given province could add on to the baseline (say, 100%, so I as
governor of Mediatlantica could only levy a maximum of $24 per year should I
wish to use the maximum, while a governor of a less economically well-off
province could simply go with the baseline and collect $12 per citizen).
In essence, each province sets its own taxes, a set portion of which
(between half and all, depending on the province) goes to the central
government. Naturally, we might want to discuss nudging the baseline down
from $12 to maybe $10 or $8, but that's a detail that can be discussed if
the general principle is thought sound.
OFS: Has potential given the correct national oversight and
equitability of application.
Bene valete,
-Oppius
<snipped>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Provincial Announcements |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Apr 2001 15:32:04 -0400 |
|
Salvete omnes
This isn't any sort of official edictum or anything; just a statement of
intent.
>From now on, I will not be cross-posting announcements to the main list that
deal with subjects internal to Mediatlantica Provincia. This includes
appointments, announcements of events, etc. (Although events announcements
will be cross-posted to those provincial email lists whose members could
conceivably attend.)
I'm doing this both to keep down on the clutter on the main list and to give
people a reason to subscribe to the Mediatlantica list without suffering
through duplicates of almost all the mail they receive. :-)
Anyone is welcome, of course, to subscribe to the Mediatlantica email list.
Just go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mediatlantica and you should be
able to subscribe.
Next year in the Forum!
Vale,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul
email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Govenors Removed? |
| From: |
Fortunatus <labienus@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 06 Apr 2001 14:36:10 -0500 |
|
Salvete Quirites
M Minucius scripsisti
> Not that it matters a great deal at this point, but it would seem
> from information that I have recieved that the Govenor to which
> Mistress Cinnibari refers was not really removed. Later information
> indicates that Mistess Livia Marcias never intended to return to her
> Propraetorship and even went so far as to persuade her own
> Paterfamilius to not vote in the Senate Vote.
This is inaccurate. First, Consul Vedius' analysis is flawed. Livia
Marcia was not prorogued. This is the same thing as being removed from
office. Yes, it was quite possible, and even likely, for her to get her
job back, but she was removed. Before the vote, she was a propraetrix.
After the vote, she wasn't.
Second, while it is true that she asked those she considered friendly in
the Senate to cease arguing on her behalf, she expressly said that she
would still appreciate our votes on her behalf and that she was willing
to continue providing leadership for the provincia.
> In fact there is a very good possibiity that the Senate Vote was
> "rigged" by some of those who have now left Nova Roma to insure the
> "failure" of a governor who did not intend to take up her
> responsibility, and thereby set the stage for a mass exodus on the
> "ides Of March".
As one of the people privy to most of the discussions about leaving on
the part of those who left on Idus Martias, I absolutely do not believe
that the Senate vote was rigged. The so-called exodus occurred because
a group of friends had conversations along the lines of, "well, I'm not
staying if you leave." Once one left, the others followed. Yes, those
who left were disgruntled. Yes, there was a general, though not
over-riding or even primary, sentiment of, "this'll show them." No,
there was no nefarious plot; just a group of tired and disillusioned
friends.
Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus
--
"People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach
conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant."
-Helen Keller
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Govenors Removed? |
| From: |
Fortunatus <labienus@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 06 Apr 2001 14:43:39 -0500 |
|
Salvete
> This is inaccurate. First, Consul Vedius' analysis is flawed. Livia
I should have said Consul Cassius' analysis is flawed. Oops.
Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus
--
"People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach
conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant."
-Helen Keller
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] CANADA OCCIDENTALIS EDICTA NUMBER ELEVEN |
| From: |
"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Apr 2001 14:44:23 -0500 |
|
The Cornicularis will act as a special assistant to the Propraetor, and help
him with his staff organization and personal workload. And any other duties
I may assign.
QS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lucius Mauricius Procopious" <procopious@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 1:52 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] CANADA OCCIDENTALIS EDICTA NUMBER ELEVEN
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> What would be the duties of the Cornicularis?
>
> Next year in the Forum!
>
> Lucius Mauricius Procopious
> Propraetor America Boreoccidentalis
> (This is an unofficial post for which I assume full responsibility)
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> procopious@--------
> ICQ# 83516618
> *America Boreoccidentalis Mail List
> http://www.egroups.com/group/AmBor_Waves
> * The Gens Mauricia
> http://www.geocities.com/procopious
>
> "Indeed, it is not by the plans of men, but by the hand of God that the
> affairs of men are directed; and this men call Fate, not knowing the
reason
> for what things they see occur; and what seems to be without cause is easy
> to call the accident of chance. Still, this is a matter every mortal will
> decide for himself according to his taste."
> -Procopius of Caesarea (in Palestine) [born c.490/507- died c.560s]
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@-------->
> To: <NR_CanOccAdmin@-------->; <NR_CanOcc@-------->;
> <novaroma@-------->
> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 10:03 AM
> Subject: [novaroma] CANADA OCCIDENTALIS EDICTA NUMBER ELEVEN
>
>
> > CANADA OCCIDENTALIS EDICTA NUMBER ELEVEN
> > PROPRAETORS STAFF POSITIONS
> >
> > 6 Apr 2001
> >
> > Salve All
> >
> > I, Quintus Sertorius, Propraetor Canada Occidentalis, issue the
following
> Edicta to announce the formal adoption of staff positions for the
Propraetor
> Office;
> >
> > -Legate in each Regio of the Provincia.
> >
> > -Provincial Quaestor (financial advisor).
> >
> > -Provincial Cornicularius (Advjutant).
> >
> > -Provincial Religio Advisor (Chaplin).
> >
> > -Provincial Aedile (Actitivies Advisor
> >
> > -Two additional members for the Procvincia Newsletter Staff (Reporters).
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > Quintus Sertorius
> >
> > Quaestor
> >
> > Propraetor
> >
> > Canada Occidentalis
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Egroups |
| From: |
"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Apr 2001 15:26:20 -0500 |
|
6 Apr 2001
Salve All
Not to long ago I posted a list of egroups that citizens of Nova Roma might want to join. I have added to the list(40+) and I am posting it again as in these egroups citizens may find the particular areas they are interested in. Thank you for your time.
Vale
Quintus Sertorius
Queastor
Nova Roma
Propraetor
Canada Occidentalis
novaroma
This is the mailing list for Nova Roma, a micronation dedicated to the principles, philosophy and faith of ancient Rome. We discuss points of history, organizational matters, religious questions, Latin language and literature, re-enactment and costuming, and much more.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
AmBor_Waves
The purpose of this list is to facilitate communication between Nova Roma citizens living in America Boreoccidentalis. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AmBor_Waves
America_Austroccidentalis
A discussion group for all embers of Nova Roma, but primarily for the cives of Provinciae America Austroccidentalis.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/America_Austroccidentalis
AncientHistory
This is a list dedicated to the discussion of ancient history. For example: Ancient Egypt or Ancient Rome. All ages are welcome.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AncientHistory
AncientMed
For those interested in informed discussion of the peoples, cultures, and religions of the Ancient Mediterraneann this is THE PLACE for you! Whether you are seeking in-depth discussions of specific society, or you favor a cross-cultural comparative approach, all are welcome here-- academics, students, and lay people. Any and all societies of this region may be discussed here, up to the end of the Ancient World in 500 C.E.-- Egypt, Syria, Mesopotamia, Anatolia, Palestine, Greece, Rome, Carthage, the Celts and Germans--all are fair game, as are the pagan religions of these cultures, Yahwehism/Judaism, Early Christianity, and Zarathustrianism. However, this is not the place for polemics, nor for ungrounded assumptions and speculations, nor proselytization.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AncientMed
Apiciusfriends
Recipe box for Nova Roma provincia America Austroccidentalis. Also given to views on Apicius and the recreating of the historic recipes put forth by him. Everyone with a sincere desire to recreate these recipes are welcome but please check out the Yahoo! Group "Apicius" for formal Nova Roma cooking discussions.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Apiciusfriends
CaliforniaNovaRoma
Discussion of diverse topics for Citizens of the micronation Nova Roma living in the California Province.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CaliforniaNovaRoma
BritanniaProvincia
This is the official mailing list for the Britannia Provincia of Nova Roma (www.novaroma.org), a micronation dedicated to the rebirth of ancient Roman civilization, culture and religion. Topics of discussion in this forum include the history and archaeology of Roman Britain, Roman Legion reenactments, the Religio Romana, and administrative business for the Britannia Provincia. This list is open to both Citizens and non-Citizens of Nova Roma.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BritanniaProvincia
avcmediterranean
Greek, Roman and other Mediterranean paganism, mythology, culture, language, and history.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/avcmediterranean
Canada_Orientalis_NR
Canada Orientalis Provincia/Eastern Canada Province
of Nova Roma
Nova Roma is an organization dedicated to
reviving Roman culture.
This is an open Forum meant to better unite
the citizens of this province.
Topics should include all things Roman,
as well as events, people, and activities
within Nova Roma.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Canada_Orientalis_NR
ComitiaCuriata
In ancient Rome, the Lictors were the embodiment of the concept of Imperium. Lictors preceeded Roman magistrates through the streets, carrying fasces as a sign of official status. The Lictors together, as the Comitia Curiata, witnessed the official status of adoptions, wills, and Priesthoods of the Religio Romana.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ComitiaCuriata
ComitiaPlebisTributa
A list for the Plebians of Nova Roma moderated by the Tribunes of the People
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ComitiaPlebisTributa
Egressus
The Sodalitas Egressus of Nova Roma is founded to promote our Republic and establish person-to-person contact of civites of Nova Roma with other organizations of Roman-related interests. This Sodalitas list shall provide its members with a point of contact, whereby various Sodalitas ventures are discussed, and where events sponsored by either Nova Roma or other organizations shall be posted. All civites of Nova Roma in good standing are invited to join the Sodalitas by making application to the Membership Committee < Egressus_Romanus@-------- > Simply give us your Citizen Name, your provincia, and your contact email address. Please feel free to ask any questions or share any ideas when you write.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Egressus
ForTheMuses
A mailing list for the citizens of Nova Roma to share,express,and discuss works of Ancient Rome. Mainly works of poetry and other related topics. This mailing list also encourages it's members to post their own literary works as well.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ForTheMuses
GreatLakesNovaRom
Nova Roma forum for the Great Lakes Provincia
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GreatLakesNovaRoma
Latinitas
This list is to provide cives (citizens)
of Nova Roma with an especial interest
in the Latin Language, Latin Philology,
Latin Literature, and Classical Philology
a place in which to discuss these matters
and the promotion of Latinity in and through
Nova Roma. Messages in English and Latin
welcome.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Latinitas
mediatlantica
This list is open to all people with an interest in Rome and things Roman, but is particularly intended for Nova Roman cives in and around the Mediatlantica Provincia (consisting of the states of NY, NJ, PA, DE, VA, and DC).
This is an open Forum meant to better unite the citizens of this province. Topics may include all things relating to ancient Rome, as well as events, people, and activities within our Provincia.
Nova Roma (http://www.novaroma.org) is an organization dedicated to reviving the society, politics, and religion of the ancient Roman Republic.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mediatlantica
NovaBritannia
Residents and friends of the Nova Britannia (New England) province of Nova Roma are invited to join this list.
Nova Roma, in case you've just stumbled on this group, is a group of people interested in the history, culture and/or religion of ancient Rome. Find out more about us at http://www.novaroma.org.
This regional list is intended to be a low-traffic outlet for event planning, sharing of information on regional resources and community-building.
Residents of nearby provinciae (Canada Occidentalis and Media Atlantica come to mine) may also want to be part of this list, since events in Nova Britannia may be accessible to them.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NovaBritannia
NovaRomaLaws
This list will be about the discussion of Nova Roma Laws in all capacities. Not only past laws, but the lawmaking progress. This list also will focus on ancient Rome's laws. Both Republic and Imperial. The same scope will be given (discussion on ancient laws and the law making process and implementation.)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NovaRomaLaws
NovaRomaAnnounce
An official email list for informing Nova Roman Citizens of upcoming votes and elections, results of votes, and propagating magisterial edicta. It is a very low-traffic list, and only those authorized to do so may post, and then only official business.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NovaRomaAnnounce
NR_Austroccidentalis
The list for discussion of provincial business and building community in the Provincia America Austroccidentalis of Nova Roma, comprising TX, CO, NM, OK, UT, and AZ.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Austroccidentalis
NR_Argentina
Lista de correo oficial de la provincia novaromana Argentina para las comunicaciones dentro de nuestra provincia. Official mailing list of the novaroman province Argentina for comunication within our province
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Argentina
NR_Australia
Welcome to the official mailing list for the Australian Province of Nova Roma. If you are not aware of Nova Roma it an international organisation dedicated to restoring Roman culture, religion, virtue and way of life. It's home is at http://www.novaroma.org
This list will exist as a forum for all Nova Roman citizens living in the macronations of Australia, New Zealand and others in the Oceania region.
Topics discussed here may be as varied as general Nova Roman affairs, discussions on Roma Antiqua, specific topics of interest to Australia Province Nova Romans, facilitating real world events and affairs of the Province itself.
Citizens from outside the Province are also more than welcome to join.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Australia
NR_CanOcc
The egroup has been established for the citizens of the Nova Roma Provincia of Canada Occidentalis.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_CanOcc
NRHispania
This mailing-list is primarily aimed at Spanish citizens of the international community of Nova Roma but also welcomes anyone interested in Roman culture and civilisation, and particularly Roman Hispania. The list is intended to focus around Hispania Romana, allowing list members to share news of recent excavations, exhibitions, lectures etc. in Spain, and to dicuss issues and share ideas related to Roman Hispania and the Roman world in general.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NRHispania
NR_DignitasForum
For those Novaromani that want to discuss the Dignitas statement and other topics with political relevance to Nova Roma.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_DignitasForum
NR_Jewish_Sod
This list will focus on the study of Judiasm from the following time-period (500bce-400ce). This list will be the focal point for a Sodalitas (once approved by the Senate of Nova Roma).
Most topics are allowed, from a political, cultural and religious stand point. Discussions of other faiths are allowed to a point where there is a relation or tanget with ancient Judaism. This means that early Christian discussions are allowed as well.
No religious bashing, rasicst comments, spamming allowed.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Jewish_Sod
NR_Philosophy
For all Novaromani who enjoy philosophy - knowledge of the past, visions of the future!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Philosophy
NR_Rockies
For Nova Romans in the Rocky Mountain region, including Colorado, surounding states, and the provincae America Austroccidentalis and Medioccidentalis Superior. Nova Roma is dedicated to the cultural restoration of ancient Rome. This list is not accepting members and is for achieve purposes.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Rockies
RomanArmy
An email list for Roman reenactors.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RomanArmy
ROMANISROMANORVM
The newsletter of the Ta Ne Remetj Desher
(Land of the Red People) group of Antiquitus Imperium
living history association. Romanis Romanorvm means
"For Romans, about Romans". We are dedicated to
reenactment and living history, collecting artifacts,
coins, weapons, and clothing. This is also for Greeks
and Egyptians, and all those other barbarians who are
involved in living history. We portray people who could
be visiting Egypt. Research on foods, clothing and way
of living, as well as party notices for the Oklahoma,
Kansas and Texas area. Search words Rome Roman Greek Greece Egypt Egyptian Macedonian Thracian Phonecian Celt
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ROMANISROMANORVM
RomanOutpost
For Marius Peregrinus' friends and other seriously fun-loving Roman enthusiasts. Dry, dusty scholarship is okay, but this List is really for people to whom Ancient Rome is a passion as well as a field of study. We'll be discussing old times, and occasionally comparing them to new ones; announcing Roman living-history events and other gatherings; swapping Latin jokes, and maybe even doing a little Roman-themed roleplay. NOTA BENE: This is NOT a Nova Roma gripe List! However, NR news and current events are just as welcome as any other word of the Roman world. >({|:-)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RomanOutpost
Roman_History_Books
In this Roman History Reading Group we discuss fiction, nonfiction, ancient historians, and historical mysteries related to Ancient Rome.
As of February 16, 2000, we have started at the beginnings of Rome again, and the original AOL group, which was founded over two years ago, has been merged into this group. Our chatroom is at Ancient/Classical History on About.com: http://ancienthistory.about.com/homework/ancienthistory/mpchat.htm.
You are cordially invited to use this e-mail forum for extended discussions on the books and on all things Roman. For longer documents, please contact IrenesBooks@--------: Irene will upload those for you in HTML format.
There are frequently related discussions going on in the Ancient/Classical History Forum: http://www.delphi.com/ab-ancienthist/start. That site is also linked to the Ancient/Classical History Home Page: http://ancienthistory.about.com/, with much useful information about the Ancient World.
For our current and upcoming readings, please go to http://members.nbci.com/placida/booklist2.htm.
For other links click on "Bookmarks" in the left column.
For uploaded files, such as chat logs, click on "Files" in the left column.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Roman_History_Books
Roman_Historical_Society
A society for the preservation and education of Roman history, heritage, and military.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Roman_Historical_Society
rome-arch
Begun on April 15, 1995, ROMARCH was the original discussion list for early Italian and Roman art and archaeology. Its mission still remains -- to foster communication between professionals, students, and laypersons. It serves as an exchange for queries and answers, acts as a bulletin board for recent discoveries and news, and (with the permission of the listowner; please run them by me first!) notices of jobs, excavations, projects, and publications. ROMARCH is also a sounding board for those wishing to test their ideas or arguments, and is a 'forum' for general discussions. In its new incarnation, it is also possible to search archives of past messages and post images for consultation or discussion. The URL for the Romarch Web-page is below. Questions? contact the founder/moderator, Prof. Pedar W. Foss in the Department of Classical Studies at DePauw University: pfoss@--------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rome-arch
RomulusandRemus
This group is for people to discuss any aspects of Roman history. All with an interest in the once mighty Roman Empire are welcome to join. I hope that topics of discussion will range from architecture and lifestyle right through to military triumphs and defeats.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RomulusandRemus
ScholaLatina
The Schola Latina is a mailing list intended for
those who wish to follow a systematic course of
study in the colloquial Latin Lanaguage, i.e. for
those who wish to acquire an ability to actively
use Latin in communication.
The course will begin with a presentation of the
Nova Roman Practical Latin Course as an
introduction to a subsequent comprehensive on-line
course in conversational Latin including all basic
Latin grammar and an adequate fundamental
vocabulary with an emphasis on practical,
high-frequency items. Abundant self-correctable
exercises will be provided.
The course presupposes an adequate knowledge of
English for passive comprehension. Quesions may
be asked of the Magister on the list in English,
French, German, Italian, Esperanto, Chinese,
Japanese, and certain other languages, for
the convenience of those for whom English is not
a first language.
It is recommended that the learner have at
least 90 minutes quality study time available
each week for the NR-Practical-Latin phase of
the course.
Students arriving late for the course may
catch up using the lessons in the Files section
of this list site, and the archives.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScholaLatina
Sertorii
This Sertorii egroup has been set up for those that would like to know more about the Quintus Sertorius of Old Rome.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sertorii
Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq
This is the list primarily for members of Nova Roma's
Sodalis pro Coqueror et Coquus.
One need not be a Citizen to join this list, but have an
interest in cooking, brewing, vinting, dining and sharing
what you know, about Roman cooking, plus that of cultures
with which Rome had contact.
Historical accuracy is always appreciated, but creative
(and tasty) "modernisms" are also welcome.
Moderated with a light hand, but let courtesy and
good cheer prevail!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq
SodalitasMilitarium
This is the Egroups List of the Sodalitas Militarium of the Republic of Nova Roma. Members discuss and study aspects of the Roman Military with focus on Infantry, Cavalry, Naval, Engineering and Cartography. Although the Sodalitas Militarium in no way promotes conquest and unnecessary military force, we are intrigued at the effiency of the Roman Military Vehicle and its positive contributions to the foundation of Ancient and contemporary civilization, as well as its tactical legacy to the military forces of today. Members discuss Ancient Roman military strategies, tactics, battles, and well as plan future events. The Sodalitas is also involved in the sponsoring of Roman Reenactment Legions worldwide. All citizens of good standing in Nova Roma are invited to joing the Sodalitas Militarium. Upon receipt of an application to the Commanders, at Militarium@--------, an applicant's name shall be added to this list and to the general membership roster. Questions regarding the Sodalitas can be directed to the aforementioned address.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SodalitasMilitarium
SodalitasMunera
This is the official email list of the Sodalitas Munera of Nova Roma. The Sodalitas Munera is a special interest club within Nova Roma dedicated to the presentation of gladiatorial combat in the ancient Roman tradition, in a safe and yet fun manner. On-topic topics include ancient gladiators and gladiatorial games, the problems of modern combat reconstruction, health and safety issues, integrating munera into real-life Nova Roma events, and questions regarding administrative and organizational matters pertaining to the Sodalitas. The Sodalitas Munera is not yet officially recognized by the Senate of Nova Roma.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SodalitasMunera
stoics
The list that allows Stoics around the world to stay in touch with each other.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stoics
Stoic_Foundation
This forum is for students taking Dr Seddon's correspondence course in Stoic Philosophy, and for others interested in Stoic Philosophy as a practical philosophy to live by.
(Note: the main Stoic activity at eGroups will be found at the 'Stoics' forum, so please visit their page.)
The Stoic Foundation was established in 2000 by Keith Seddon, the current Director of the Foundation, as an educational trust, offering advice, support and a correspondence course in practical Stoic philosophy to anyone interested in taking up Stoicism as a philosophy to live by.
The Foundation is happy to advise on any aspect of Stoic philosophy, from advice on primary source literature (including the ancient Stoic writers), secondary source literature (interest in the Hellenistic Schools, including Stoicism, has grown enormously in recent years), and by offering our own correspondence course.
EXTRACT FROM THE FOUNDATION'S DEED OF TRUST
The Stoic Foundation's objects are as follows: To promote philosophical understanding and awareness in the individual, and thereby in society at large, in accordance with the ideas, principles, philosophy and values of STOICISM as found in the texts of Cicero, Seneca, Epictetus, Marcus Aurelius and other Stoic writings of the classical Greco-Roman period, as founded by Zeno of Citium.
To encourage an appreciation of, experience of, and a conversion to the 'good life' whose aim was 'eudaimonia' as conceived by the Stoic philosophers, which consists of living 'the philosophical life' in which the subject accepts the will of providence, curbs the emotions, and acts towards others with patience and kindness, enjoying an inner state of tranquillity and well-being.
To teach that virtue is the only good, that vice is the only harm (whilst all else is indifferent), and that 'living according to nature' as understood by the Stoics is the proper end for all rational creatures.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Stoic_Foundation
ThuleNovaRoma
This is the mailing list for provinciae Thule of Nova Roma. The provincia Thule includes the modern states of Finland, Norway, Sweden and Denmark. Nova Roma is a micro nation devoted to all sides of the ancient Rome.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThuleNovaRoma
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Now tied |
| From: |
"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 6 Apr 2001 16:59:43 -0500 |
|
Canada Occidentalis is now tied with America Austroccidentalis for the Provincial egroup with the most members, we both have 24 apiece! Come on citizens, let's join those egroups and get active!!
QS
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| Subject: |
Re: Patroni et clientes (was Re: Re:[novaroma] Keeping citizens interested) |
| From: |
Michel <loos@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 06 Apr 2001 19:46:28 -0300 |
|
"S. Apollonius Draco" wrote:
>
> Salve Luci Corneli,
>
> (snipped)
>
> > Well, all I can state is my opinion. Part of it is stated above. Some
> > citizens are just not interested in politics and that is fine. But for
> > those that are interested I think a few things might hold them back.
> > First is a lack of knowledge. I cant stress to you how much I have
> > learned being a magistrate in NR. Even now I still make mistakes, but
> > I
> > try to rectify them as quickly as they are presented to me. But, I
> > think a way to overcome part of this is through the establishment of a
> > time honored Roman tradition of patron/client relationship. I am not
> > saying that we should follow every aspect of what it was like in
> > ancient
> > rome..but more like a tutelage. Where a newer member of Nova Roma is
> > taken under the wing of an "old-timer" and is taught what being in NR
> > is
> > about, how the political system works, and why it works that
> > way....etc. Because, I am of the opinion that once us old-timers are
> > no
> > longer in office it will be held by a newer generation, and I think it
> > would be better to give them training on how NR works, and why NR works
> > the way it does, than to leave our newer citizens on their own to drift
> > and not have the guidance of our learned citizens.
>
> While I think this is a good idea on its face, and would work just fine in
> an ideal world (as communism would work in an ideal world), I'm afraid this
> will inevitably result in mass corruption. Imagine a new citizen coming
> under the tutelage of an influential person in NR, and being told lies, and
> promised easy promotions if he supports his patron in this and that - or
> else, expulsion, because that patron is so influential he could kill that
> new citizen's public life. A patron-client-relationship should be based on
> trust, and true trust is a very rare thing in this world, and it is even
> more rare on the internet.
That is exactly how it worked in Old Rome: large scale
corruption+immense power for the patrons. The worst possible world.
Seems the big guys which stayed are mostly admirers of all what Old Rome
had worst: Worst period (Sulla dictature), worst organisation
(Patron/Client).
Makes us regret even more the best of us who did leave a month ago.
Manius Villius Limitanus
>
> Mind you, I'm not accusing anyone here, but as I said before in the debate
> over the possible conflict of intrests: where there's a good °opportunity°
> for corruption, someone will eventually °use° that opportunity.
>
> Vale bene!
> Draco
>
>
>
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