Forum Romanum


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: A new member of gens Vedia
From:	QFabiusMax@--------
Date:	Wed, 11 Apr 2001 20:31:48 EDT

To Gens Vedia from the Fabia,

The gods smile on you and protect your new little one. Nova Roma continues
to grow.

Valete
The Paterfamilias

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] A new member of gens Vedia
From:	Piparskeggr Ullarsson <catamount_grange@-------->
Date:	Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:56:47 -0500

Wćs ţu Germanicus Hal!!!

Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote:
>
> Salvete
>
> It is with boundless pleasure that I would like to welcome Vedia Juliana
> (aka Samantha Morgan Bloch) to gens Vedia. She was born last night at 10:22
> eastern time via caesarian section, weighing 9 pounds 3 ounces and measuring
> 20 inches in length. She and her mother, Priscilla Vedia, are resting
> comfortably in the hospital (due to be released Saturday), and her father
> (yours truly) is bouncing off the walls with joy and pride. :-)
>
> Next year in the Forum!
>
> Valete,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> Consul
>

Definitely a bit of all right!!!

I'll let the folks on ANA know (I'm the list owner, have been since Bođvar stepped back about 2
months ago).

--
===========================================
In Frith under Troth, may the Gods see you!
- Piparskeggr skjaldberi Ullar

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: A new member of gens Vedia
From:	"Julilla Sempronia Magna" <julilla@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 00:55:31 -0000

Felicitatio to you and your wife, Priscilla Vedia, and welcome to an
exciting new world, Vedia Juliana!

May I assume that the nursing staff did not literally lay little
Vedia Juliana at your feet, but that you have picked her up and
joyfully acknowledged her.

---
cura et valeas,

@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| http://julilla.tripod.com/
Daily Life in Ancient Rome
@____@ julilla@--------
||||

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Subject:	[novaroma] Excuse me...
From:	"M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@-------->
Date:	Tue, 10 Apr 2001 05:01:24 +0200

M. Apollonius Formosanus omnibus Quiritibus S.P.D.

Lucius Marius Peregrinus scripsit:

Subject: Excuse me...

Salvete omnes...

I shall have a little to say about the 'dual-citizenship' defense of
the present name-change edict in a later post. However, as much as I
hope to keep debate on the edict focussed on its merits (and those of
my alternative proposal, if any), I do not think I can venture much
further into said debate until our senior Censor and I get something
cleared up:

Sulla scripsit:
> I have to disagree with Lucius Sergius. Given the fact that this
> issue has come up more than once, by Lucia Maria.

Censor Sulla:
According to both the wording of the edict and your own (very many)
reassurances to me last spring and summer, the terms of the edict do
not affect any alias, chat handle, or e-mail handle a Citizen cares
to adopt. I have been told repeatedly that, whatever my name might
be on the records, I have the right to be addressed in day-to-day
transactions however I please. It is only in an official context--
such as my Governor's appointment of me to the Legateship of my
Regio--that my officially-recorded Roman name *must* be used.

That being said (over and over)...I object to your referring to me by
the feminine version of my name. It is both patently offensive to me
(as you have been aware for years) and completely unnecessary (as no
'official business' or oath is involved).

I am willing to debate any aspect of the name-change edict with you
or anyone else on its merits--but not if you fail to show myself and
other Citizens the bit of respect we expect, and demand, from our
Magistrates. This goes double if a tax measure is enacted; and the
most highly-placed Magistrates ought to be leading the way for all
the rest.

I appreciate your time and attention to this issue in future.

In fides,

-- L Marius Peregrinus
Legatus, Provinciae America Austroccidentalis
Storyteller, Roleplayer Emeritus, Historical Re-Creationist
and Citizen of Rome

____________________________
.

The person who has the most right to speak about this has spoken - I
shall merely affirm, having followed this whole issue closely as it
has developed through the months, that Censor Sulla really did
promise what Marius says he did. Repeatedly. If there is any deficit
of Veritas in these matters, it is easy to see one place where it is
- but we might also consider the Veritas deficit in the refusal to
admit that social gender is the aspect of sexual identity that is
really important in interpersonal relations on the Internet (and
indeed in everyday life for all except those contemplating sexual
eintercourse).

I also note the aptness of Marius' comments on taxation - all of us
who have been around for a few months and paying attention know that
the Censor's office is one place that has its eye on some of the
prospective tax money from our pockets (quite justifiably so).
Functionaries might indeed be expected to be more respectful of the
dignitas of the citizens whom they are *serving*. The Senior Censor
doubtless would not wish to be addressed as "Lucia Cornelia Sulla
Felix" just because someone else has a strange notion of sexual
attribution which he insists on applying to others against their
will. Our elected servants of the People should indeed show more
courtesy, sensitivity, and tolerance - otherwise, why would they
expect to receive respect from the People in turn?

And certainly I would welcome an alternative the the present Gender
(Name Change) Edictum... but I shall discuss that elsewhere.

Valete!

_________________________________________________
Marcus Apollonius Formosanus, Aedilis Plebeius Novae Romae
Amicus Dignitatis; Scriba Censorius
Paterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae (http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/)
Moderator et Praeceptor Sodalitatis Latinitatis
Moderator Indicis protoprovincialis NR_Venediae
ICQ# 61698049 AIM: MAFormosanus MSN: Formosanus
Civis Novae Romae in Silesia, Polonia
Minervium Virtuale: http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/Minervium.htm
The Gens Apollonia is open to new members.
Ave nostra Respublica Libera - Nova Roma!
____________________________________________________
Memento Idus Martias - non omnino bene Respublica se habet.
(Remember the Ides of March - it is not all well with the Republic.)
____________________________________________________

All that is needed for the forces of evil to triumph in the world is for
enough good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke
___________________________________________________

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: A new member of gens Vedia
From:	octavianuslucius@--------
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 02:21:49 -0000

Congratutalions consul Germanice!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The best wishes for you and your family!!!!!
Sincerely

Lucius Pompeius Octavianus

--- In novaroma@--------, "Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@n...>
wrote:
> Salvete
>
> It is with boundless pleasure that I would like to welcome Vedia
Juliana
> (aka Samantha Morgan Bloch) to gens Vedia. She was born last night
at 10:22
> eastern time via caesarian section, weighing 9 pounds 3 ounces and
measuring
> 20 inches in length. She and her mother, Priscilla Vedia, are
resting
> comfortably in the hospital (due to be released Saturday), and her
father
> (yours truly) is bouncing off the walls with joy and pride. :-)
>
> Next year in the Forum!
>
> Valete,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> Consul
>

> email: germa--------s@-------- > AIM: Flavius Vedius
> ICQ: 106199729
> www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org

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Subject:	[novaroma] Reminder of new Australian Provincial Mailing List
From:	"Daniel Place" <Danat2000@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 12:00:13 +0930

Salvete Quirites,

just another reminder to any interested that a mailing list has been created for the Australian Provincia. All are welcome.

The yahoogroup address is :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Australia

Valete

Marcus Arcadius Pius
Propraetor Australia

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[novaroma] Call for Legates for Australia Provincia
From:	"Daniel Place" <Danat2000@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 12:08:18 +0930

Ave Nova Romani,

I hereby call for interested cives living in Australia to apply for Legate positions for their particular regions/states. Here in Australia the office of Legate is particularly important due to the immense distances between the varying regios of the province. If you have a desire to see Nova Roma grow in Australia, and feel you have the desire and ability to undertake these important roles please email me privately. This call will apply from 12th April 2754 (2001) to midnight 20th April 2754 (Australian Central Standard Time )

I thank you for your consideration

valete

Marcus Arcadius Pius
Propraetor Australia

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Excuse me...
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Wed, 11 Apr 2001 22:32:57 -0400

Salvete

One of the advantages of not having read my email since Sunday night is that
I get to enjoy a rather longer-term view of things on the list. My dear
Formosanus, perhaps you were unaware that you posted this self-same email
last Monday night? (I would not have noticed had I not literally just read
it as this one came in.)

I will fully admit that I have had nowhere near as much time as I need to
thoroughly go through the 500+ emails that have piled up in my inbox, but I
have to wonder why you feel the need to post the exact same email three days
later (and, I freely admit, I am nowhere near comprehending the whole
thread; you may well have done so at the request of someone who missed your
original post and requested it be repeated; if such is the case I apologize
in advance).

Surely your arguments are sound enough that you do not need to make your
points through mindless repetition. Doubtless, a point once made, and made
well, is far superior to a lie repeated loudly, and repeated often. (Not
that I am judging the value of the arguments on either side, I am only
questioning your choice to repeat your own argument verbatim...)

Next year in the Forum!

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
ICQ: 106199729
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: A new member of gens Vedia
From:	"Daniel Place" <Danat2000@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 12:17:45 +0930

Ave Consul Germanicus,

Congratulations on the safe arrival of your latest gens member. May Fortuna continue to look upon you and your family with favour :-)

vale

Marcus Arcadius Pius

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Greetings, from a Psuedo-Newcomer
From:	"Teleri ferch Nyfain" <rckovak@-------->
Date:	Wed, 11 Apr 2001 23:26:03 -0400

Salve
Welcome back!

You said: <<My interest was expanded when
certain "memories" were surfaced of a life in Rome, or at the very
least a Roman society.

I am a Pagan whose primary Gods are those of a Celtic pantheon, but
who holds Roman Gods very dear in her heart. >>

Sounds very familiar (although my 'remembered' life is in 6th century
Britain) :-)
Hope to see some of your poetry.

Vale bene,
Helena Galeria

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: A new member of gens Vedia
From:	"Teleri ferch Nyfain" <rckovak@-------->
Date:	Wed, 11 Apr 2001 23:30:01 -0400

Salve,

Congratulations on your daughter!

Flavius Vedius Germanicus scripsit:
<<It is with boundless pleasure that I would like to welcome Vedia Juliana
(aka Samantha Morgan Bloch) to gens Vedia. >>

Vale bene
Helena Galeria

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Subject:	RE: Another correction (Re: [novaroma] Replies)
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Wed, 11 Apr 2001 23:55:10 -0400

Salvete

> -----Original Message-----
> From: S. Apollonius Draco [mailto:hendrik.meuleman@--------]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 11:52 AM
>
> Sorry, I meant here: NR is an empty bubble if it only has administration.

Then I am very very happy to say that there is much more in Nova Roma than
mere administration. Real-world meetings everywhere and growing (in my own
locale, I am pleased to say they they are held twice a month), Roman Days in
June, RubiCon in October, local chapters in the offing in Thule,
Boreoccidentalis, Australia, and more-- ohh-- it is SUCH a great time to be
a Nova Roman!

Allow me to calm your particular fear, Formosanus; NR does not only have
administration. It has real people, getting together in real places, in real
ways, and really reconstructing the Roman Republic. Help us! You have so
much to offer!

And you, over there in the corner-- help us too! And you, who learned Latin
when you were a kid-- c'mon, help! And you, with the machine-shop, come on!
And you, who don't think you have any skills to contribute. Yes, you do. You
just haven't figured out HOW they contribute yet. We'll need everyone before
it's over.

If it is ever over...

Next year in the Forum!

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
ICQ: 106199729
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] A new member of gens Vedia
From:	Prima Lucilla Cornelia Fortunata <LucillaCornelia@-------->
Date:	Wed, 11 Apr 2001 21:19:41 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete,

Welcome, welcome earthside, young traveler! We thank
the Gods for your safe arrival and for the excellent
health of you and your mother.

Our deepest, most heartfelt congratulations to our
esteemed Consul F. Vedius Germanicus et Domina P.
Vedia Serena on the arrival of their firstborn, Vedia
Juliana. May the Gods watch over your family now and
always, and may Vesta's flame burn forever in your
hearts as She protects and sanctifies your household.

Vivat Vedia! Vivat Nova Roma!

Valete bene et Pace Deorum,
Prima Lucilla Cornelia Fortunata
Virgo Maxima

--- Flavius Vedius Germanicus
<germanicus@--------> wrote:
> Salvete
>
> It is with boundless pleasure that I would like to
> welcome Vedia Juliana
> (aka Samantha Morgan Bloch) to gens Vedia. She was
> born last night at 10:22
> eastern time via caesarian section, weighing 9
> pounds 3 ounces and measuring
> 20 inches in length. She and her mother, Priscilla
> Vedia, are resting
> comfortably in the hospital (due to be released
> Saturday), and her father
> (yours truly) is bouncing off the walls with joy and
> pride. :-)
>
> Next year in the Forum!
>
> Valete,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> Consul
>
> email: germanicus@--------
> AIM: Flavius Vedius
> ICQ: 106199729
> www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
>
>
>

=====
Prima Lucilla Cornelia Fortunata
Virgo Maxima

ICQ: 112293226 AIM: LucillaCornelia
___________________________________
Ut Roma Cadit Ita Orbis Terrae
___________________________________

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: A new member of gens Vedia
From:	"Nick R. Ramos Jr." <nramos@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 04:30:35 -0000

Salve, Germanicus!

May the Gods and Goddesses of Rome bless her and watch over her, and
congratulations to gens Vedia for this fortunate and wonderful event.
May she be your pride and joy for the rest of your days!

Optime Vale, et Venus nos ament!

Marius Cornelius Scipio

--- In novaroma@--------, "Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@n...>
wrote:
> Salvete
>
> It is with boundless pleasure that I would like to welcome Vedia
Juliana
> (aka Samantha Morgan Bloch) to gens Vedia. She was born last night
at 10:22
> eastern time via caesarian section, weighing 9 pounds 3 ounces and
measuring
> 20 inches in length. She and her mother, Priscilla Vedia, are
resting
> comfortably in the hospital (due to be released Saturday), and her
father
> (yours truly) is bouncing off the walls with joy and pride. :-)
>
> Next year in the Forum!
>
> Valete,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> Consul
>

> email: germa--------s@-------- > AIM: Flavius Vedius
> ICQ: 106199729
> www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Greetings, from a Psuedo-Newcomer
From:	Christer Edling <tjalens.h@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 06:40:09 +0200

>Ah, oops...I thought I had put that in there somewhere! I am Gaia
>Natalina Casca...

Salve Gaia Natalina Casca!

Glad to have You "back"! Now it's really time to go to sleep in Sweden!
Since I became Propraetor Thules, I am awake much to late. Now the clock is
00.10 and I must up at 06.10. So, Good night!

Vale

Christer Edling
alias
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
SHAMALI SALUKIS
************************************************
CAMELOT ROLEPLAYING WORKSHOP
Robert Andersson & Christer Edling
************************************************
IF GAMES - If reality was different!
Markus Sundbom & Christer Edling
************************************************
MAIN E-MAIL ADDRESS: tjalens.h@--------
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] A new member of gens Vedia
From:	Christer Edling <tjalens.h@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 06:50:05 +0200

>Salvete
>
>It is with boundless pleasure that I would like to welcome Vedia Juliana
>(aka Samantha Morgan Bloch) to gens Vedia. She was born last night at 10:22
>eastern time via caesarian section, weighing 9 pounds 3 ounces and measuring
>20 inches in length. She and her mother, Priscilla Vedia, are resting
>comfortably in the hospital (due to be released Saturday), and her father
>(yours truly) is bouncing off the walls with joy and pride. :-)
>
>Next year in the Forum!
>
>Valete,
>
>Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
>Consul

CONGRATULATIONS! Welcome to the (ICoF) International Club of Fathers! ;-)

Vale

Christer Edling
alias
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
SHAMALI SALUKIS
************************************************
CAMELOT ROLEPLAYING WORKSHOP
Robert Andersson & Christer Edling
************************************************
IF GAMES - If reality was different!
Markus Sundbom & Christer Edling
************************************************
MAIN E-MAIL ADDRESS: tjalens.h@--------
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80

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Subject:	[novaroma] ATTN (Religio Romana): pridie Idus Aprilias (April 12)
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <amg@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 10:41:29 +0100

Salvete omnes

This is one of the dies nefasti (N), a day on which no legal action can take
place.

This is the first day of the Cerialia, the festival in honour of Ceres.
Ceres is the Goddess of grain Who feeds the people. She is sometimes equated
with Tellus.
To Ceres we offer the first ears of grain and we sacrifice to her before the
harvest (see Cato's
sacrifice to Ceres at
http://www.novaroma.org/religio_romana/cato_ceres.html).
Ceres is a very ancient Goddess and she has a dedicated Flamen, the Flamen
Cerialis. Nevertheless, in 496 BC, a famine striked Rome and the Sibylline
Oracles ordered the Greek cults of Demeter, Iacchus and Kore to be
introduced
and equated to as Ceres, Liber and Libera (already the names of traditional
Roman Gods).
In 493 BC the new Temple is dedicated on the Aventine Hill. The public
priestess of the new temple is usually Greek (most probably from Magna
Graecia) and the
officiated liturgy at the new temple is Greek too. The Aediles Plebis care
for the temple and
have their official residence in it. They are responsible for the games at
the Cerealia. The Aventine Triad is thus associated to the Plebs.
As such, besides its traditional Roman aspect (as represented by the Flamen
Cerealis), Ceres acquires a Greek aspect (represented by the Aventine Triad
and the temple on the Aventine).
The Cerialia celebrate the growth of grain and agricultural products in
general. Initially celebrated on April 19, the festival is enlarged to span
from April 12 to April 19, though the latter continues to be the main day of
the Cerialia. Appropriate sacrifices are wheat grains, salts which crepitate
in the fire, and incense (storax incense as appropriate to Demeter?). In the
lack of incense, resin torches are lighted. The sow, sacred to Ceres, is
also
sacrificed. The Flamen Cerialis plays certainly a major role officiating the
public sacrifices.

Valete bene in Pace Deorum
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex

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Subject:	Re: Another correction (Re: [novaroma] Replies)
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 10:43:14 +0200

Salve O Consul,

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: S. Apollonius Draco [mailto:hendrik.meuleman@--------]
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 11:52 AM
> >
> > Sorry, I meant here: NR is an empty bubble if it only has
administration.
>
> Then I am very very happy to say that there is much more in Nova Roma than
> mere administration. Real-world meetings everywhere and growing (in my own
> locale, I am pleased to say they they are held twice a month), Roman Days
in
> June, RubiCon in October, local chapters in the offing in Thule,
> Boreoccidentalis, Australia, and more-- ohh-- it is SUCH a great time to
be
> a Nova Roman!
>
> Allow me to calm your particular fear, Formosanus; NR does not only have
> administration. It has real people, getting together in real places, in
real
> ways, and really reconstructing the Roman Republic. Help us! You have so
> much to offer!

Only thing is... I am not Formosanus. It's not the first time the Dragon is
mistaken for the Formosan... I wonder how that comes! :)

> And you, over there in the corner-- help us too! And you, who learned
Latin
> when you were a kid-- c'mon, help! And you, with the machine-shop, come
on!
> And you, who don't think you have any skills to contribute. Yes, you do.
You
> just haven't figured out HOW they contribute yet. We'll need everyone
before
> it's over.
>

I agree with this optimism and enthusiasm, and you're right that in America
there are more local meetings than ever. However, despite my repeated
callings, all non-political lists (with the exception of the Religio Romana
list) are as good as dead. What's more, when they do spring to life, it's
usually artificially, and it's always done by the same people.

Vale bene,
Draco

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Replies
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 12:08:23 +0200

Salve Oppi Flacce,

> Yes, I must say that I was taken aback at
> the title line on the last mail; not a problem
> at all. In fact, more than once I've mailed
> my boss of all people from my Oppius Flaccus
> account and had to subsequently explain the
> 'oopsie' and answer the usual questions like
> "what's an Oppius Flaccus?"
>

Ah, yes. I once emailed a teacher using S. Apollonius Draco and he thought I
was naming myself Saint Apollonius.

> (I have multiple mail accounts
> being delivered to the same mail client.)
>
> In regards to your corrections, I have
> seen some of them since posting my original
> response. Due the wonders of Internet space/
> time differentials, my post hit before I
> had read all your previous replies. -Happens
> to all of us. So, with that in mind; if you
> could forward me a copy of the mail that was
> to start the new debate about Nova Roma's
> future, I'll be happy to use that one instead
> as the basis of a reply.
>

I'll fw it to you righteaway.

> As for the Latin declension spreadsheet
> that a certain kindly little green martian
> suggested; I would very much like a copy
> delivered to me as well whenever you have
> a moment.

See above.

Vale bene!
Draco

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Replies
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 12:12:12 +0200

Salve Tite Octavi,

> "S. Apollonius Draco" wrote:
> > I'm not saying you or anyone should appease traditionalists. But Roman
> > soceity is linked with Latin. Also, what I mean by "decent Latin" is at
> > least that people get their vocatives right, or know how to form plurals
of
> > some words. I find that the SodLat should play a more important role in
> > this I advise you to check out the archives for the courses of my
paterfamilias, > Formosanus; courses which most people seem to have
forgotten.
> >
> > That's the crux of the matter: it's not about being devoted to The
State,
> > but being devoted to the Romanitas, the Romanhood, so to speak. NR is an
> > empty bubble with administration only.
> ((Heavily snipped))
>
> Salve, Sexte Apolloni Draco.
>
> I'm new to Nova Roma, and must therefore apologize for my ignorance. I
> believed Nova Roma was about constructing a new society in the roman
> spirit, not reconstructing Roma Antiqua.
>

Nothing to apologize for. Your views simply differ from mine. I certainly
don't have The Right View.

> However, I still don't see why it should be a requirement to use proper
> latin at all times. Unless you were just tired of bad latin, meaning
> that either you speak latin properly or you don't speak it at all. I
> myself know next to no latin, but I feel that some words (salve, vale)
> helps making my e-mail at least seem more roman.
>

I wasn't saying everyone should talk in Latin, but, as you say I was tired
of bad Latin. And indeed, better not to use it at all instead of using it
badly. When I see people writing "salve" (which is singular) to a group of
people, or "valete" (which is plural) to one person, then you have me
wondering how they learnt this.

> Also, as I mentioned in my e-mail, I'm quite fond of the latin language,
> and would be interested in learning as much as possible. I'd very much
> appreciate being able to study the courses of Formosanus, although I
> don't particularly appreciate searching through archives for them. I
> therefore wholeheartedly support Oppius Flaccus Severus' idea of putting
> them on the Nova Roman website. If you'd like, I've got some server
> space I'd be happy to put to good use.
>

Well, for this you can email Formosanus; I'm sure he'll happily oblige! His
email address is bvm3@--------

> Let me apologize to any rudeness on my part, and tell you beforehand
> that no offense was intended. I very much respect your skills, as well
> as your devotion to Nova Roma, and hope you will not bear me any ill
> will.
>

Again, no need to apologize, I wasn't offended. I've had worse cannonballs
shot at me (and my alleged underdeveloped brain ;-)).

Vale optime,
Draco

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] I've been away...
From:	Michel <loos@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 07:55:11 -0300

Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote:
>
> Salvete!
>
> My apologies for having been absent the last couple of days. I've been...
> busy. :-)
>
> (Did I mention my daughter was born last night!?!?!? WOOHOOOOOO!!! Now I
> have a reason to set up a gens Vedia website!)
>

Congratulations and welcome to the group of fathers. Definitively a time
consuming pleasure.

Manius Villius Limitanus

> I'll try to catch up on the enormous backlog of mail which I see from the
> headers deals with a variety of very important (both generally and to me)
> issues. I beg the patience and understanding of everyone here...
>
> Next year in the Forum!
>
> Vale,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> Consul
>
> email: germanicus@--------
> AIM: Flavius Vedius
> ICQ: 106199729
> www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

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Subject:	[novaroma] THE PROPOSAL---a story
From:	gcassiusnerva@--------
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 07:20:52 EDT

CHARACTERS OF THE NARRATIVE

Quintus Sertorius---an unmarried plebeian, extremely wealthy, ambitious,
frugal.

Marcus Cassius Julianus---senator of Rome, not at all wealthy, dignified, the
perfect model of Roman manhood.

Patricia Cassia---his exquisite wife, the perfect model of Roman womanhood.

THE SETTING: A private dinner at the Quintus Serotrius' home in ancient
republican Rome.

and now, THE PROPOSAL, by Gaius Cassius Nerva.

Quintus Sertorius paced anxiously in the atrium of his house in the
wealthy district of Rome, pausing only to look through the open door of his
study at the elegant, imported Greek time piece on his desk. He had checked
and double-checked the progress of the cooks to make certain the meal was
prepared exactly right. Everything had to be perfect, nothing left to
chance, for the wealthy equestrian Quintus Sertorius had pinned his hopes and
his ambitions for the future upon the success of this night, when the noble
Marcus Cassius Julianus, patrician and senator of Rome, with his elegant wife
Patricia, would be joining him for dinner.

Senator Cassius ignored the chill of the evening air as he and his wife
made their way to Quintus Sertorius' house, deep in thought. This was not a
mere social dinner they had been invited to, for he knew Quintus Sertorius
only as an acquaintance, and not as a personal friend. Their relations were
cordial to be sure, but Sertorius was a man who made his vast enviable
fortune in the running of businesses and his part ownership of several mines
in Spain, and Cassius was not only a Senator but a Patrician, and as such
could never stoop to the actual running of a business enterprise. Perhaps if
he could, things would be much more comfortable for him, for his branch of
the Cassii had seen their wealth dwindle away over the years. Only the
income from a few small real estate holdings provided them with some comfort.
He had, of course, his flawless pedigree, and his impeccable dignitas which
he wore so naturally, like his toga with its purple senatorial stripe. His
wife, Patricia, was also of unimpeachable family background. If she harbored
any distaste for the necessity of careful frugality, she never let it show.
She bore without complaint the knowledge that her husband lacked the funds
necessary to stand even for the Praetorship, the next highest office to
Consul. To her sensible mind, being Roman, being herself, having Cassius as
her husband, honoring the gods, and keeping the virtues was more than enough
for a happy life, even if her husband would never be able to rise above his
back-bench seat in the senate house.

They were met at the door by one of Sertorius' servants, who took their
cloaks and led them to the large family room where Quintus Sertorius greeted
them warmly and announced how honored he was that they would come to share
his dinner. Cassius and Patricia, by necessity of their frugality and their
stoic values, were nearly intoxicated by the sheer opulence of Sertorius'
home. The frescos, the silver cups, the statues, the glittering
mosaics...all assaulted their senses mercilessly, gloriously. Here was a man
who knew and appreciated beauty. They were feasted like Bacchus. They drank
of the finest wines in Rome. There was music, and there were dancers. They
talked of Rome, her arts, her books, her politics, and her social scandals.
And they had not enjoyed themselves so much in a long time.

"Well, this has been a most delightful evening!", Cassius said, raising
his cup to his host. "But my friend, I don't think you invited us here
tonight only for our company, though I sincerely hope it was as pleasant for
you as yours has been to us! Please don't misunderstand, I don't wish to
sound boorish or ungrateful! It is just that till now we have been mere
acquaintances. I suspect that there must be a matter of some importance you
wish to discuss."
Quintus Sertorius looked down suddenly into his cup, trying to avoid the
all-seeing mental eyes of Cassius. He cleared his throat, found it hard to
find the words, as one sent to tell of some calamity that had befallen their
nearest and dearest. "Marcus Cassius," he said, near stammering, "before you
arrived I had a hundred times in my mind rehearsed for this meeting. And now
that the moment has come, I find my poor skills in speech insufficient to the
task! Therefore, bear with me and grant me indulgence to speak my mind
bluntly and plainly." Cassius nodded, rapt in attention. Sertorius cleared
his throat again. "Marcus Cassius, I wish to marry your daughter!"

They startled. Cassius jerked back in surprise, and Patricia gasped a
faint 'oh' and held her hand to her mouth. "This is how it comes," she said
softly, eyes beginning to glisten, "like a thief in the night. The moment
every woman both looks to with hope, and fears like some unwholesome
apparition in the night. The moment when a man comes and beckons to take her
daughter away from her!" She rose, and wiped her eyes. Her husband touched
her arm. "Patricia, love..." She raised her hand to silence him. "Please
Cassius, do not interrupt me in mid-soliloquy!"
Cassius shrugged, and his wife looked at Sertorius. "Can you understand?
Can you understand the feelings of a woman's heart? But how can you? You, a
man! Quintus Sertorius, do you know what it is to be a woman?" Sertorius
mouth nearly dropped open. "Uh, no. I don't believe I have ever had that
experience, good lady!"
"Then how can I tell of it?", Patricia choked out. "A woman on the stool,
through the agonies of the furies gives life, a small, precious gift of the
gods, who she nurses at her breast, and rocks to sleep, and soothes with
gentle song. She watches her take her first steps, speak her first words,
and teaches her the virtues, reverence and devotion to her family and the
gods. She is there when she makes her first friends, when she falls and
cries, and watches her slowly, but too quickly, grow into the blossom of
youthful womanhood."
"Oh gods," Cassius mumbled, dropping his face into his hand, "she's at it
again!"
"And she knows in her thoughts and in her heart", Patricia went on, "of the
great and merciless Time, ever on the march, which in his own unyielding
passage brings this moment, when shall come forth a man, to take her place as
her daughter's protector, and to carry her beloved child away!"
"Well, Patricia, it isn't that bad. I mean, it isn't like I live on the
other end of the empire! We're only a few neighborhoods apart!", Sertorius
said, trying to lighten the atmosphere. Cassius could only shake his head.
"Oh Cassius!", Patricia cried, falling to her knees and burying her head on
his arm. "He wants to marry our daughter!"
At the conclusion of her soliloquy the servants burst into applause, and just
as suddenly stopped as Quintus Sertorius and Cassius glared at them.
Then Cassius turned to his wife and patted her shoulder. "There, my
love", he said, "do not be so grieved. We both know it is not possible."
"Not possible?!?", Sertorius asked, his hopes evaporating. Cassius shook his
head. "I'm sorry Quintus Sertorius. You are a fine fellow, but I'm afraid
you cannot marry our daughter". Quintus Sertorius extended his arm to them
both, and said, "But may I know the reason? Is she betrothed already?"
"No, Quintus, there is no other husband in waiting", Cassius replied.
"Then may you tell me why I am...ah! I see!" Quintus beamed a smile.
"Forgive me Cassius! I know how uncouth I must have seemed, asking you for
your daughter, and offering you nothing! Forgive me, please, I jumped way to
far ahead of myself. Cassius, I would never ask you for the hand of your
daughter for nothing. I know, Cassius, that you and I are both in a position
to benefit the other."
"What exactly are you driving at Sertorius?", Cassius asked.
Quintus Sertorius rose, and began to walk around the room. "Cassius, I know
about your financial situation. You could have been Consul long ago, had you
the funds to finance your rise through the Cursus Honorum. You never had the
chance to serve in those highest offices of state, which your blood and
illustrious family name entitle you! I too, would like to be someone
important. I am one of the wealthiest men in Rome, if you will forgive me
for my immodesty. Yet my family is common. I lack the background, the
connections, the dignitas you as a Cassii possess. Which is why I ask for
this marriage. I will be joyed to fund you in your standing for the offices
of state, and as an added bonus, I will support your son's rise as well. And
for myself, my image and dignitas will be increased immeasurably by a
marriage link with your family. What a team we would make, eh? I will
provide the money, you the glory of your family, and your skill at politics
and rhetoric. You could show me the ropes and the ins and outs of politics.
Which is why I ask you now...let me marry your daughter!" "Oh, Cassius,"
Patricia wept, "he wants to marry our daughter!"

Cassius looked troubled, felt sorry for Quintus, and shook his head
again. "I am so sorry Quintus," he said. "Your offer is a most excellent
one, but I am afraid you may not marry our daughter." "And Quintus again
looked pained. "But Cassius, please, let me know the reason! If the money is
not enough then....ah! I see! How foolish of me! I spoke of money for your
political rise, but every good father, and I know you are one, wants to make
sure his daughter's husband also uses his wealth to care for his girl! Of
course, dear Cassius, if you let me marry your daughter, she will want for
nothing that my money can buy! Slaves, a beautiful home, enjoyment all of
her days! I would never DREAM of neglecting her needs! Which is why I
beseech you, Cassius, let me marry your daughter!" "Oh Cassius," Patricia
cried, "he wants to marry our daughter!"

Cassius looked sorrowful for his friend. He thought, he tried to speak,
he looked as if he were a man struggling within. But he shook his head
finally. "I know you would provide well for her, as every husband should,
Quintus. But no...you may not marry our daughter!" Quintus looked pained.
He reached out his hands to Cassius, as if pleading. "But, please Cassius,
may I know the reason? Is it because you could not love me as a brother?"
Then he slapped his forehead. "Of course! I see!" he cried with laughter.
"Every good father, and I know you are one, recoils at the thought of mere
political marriages! He wants to make sure his daughter will not only be
provided for, but LOVED! Cassius, oh my dear friend! Of course, when you
let me marry your daughter, I shall love her above all else! I will not
treat her as a precious POSSESSION, appearing in public with her, and having
mistresses and concubines on the side! Unthinkable for men such as you and
I! I shall indeed love her as no other man could! Which is why I beg of
you, Cassius, let me marry your daughter!" "Oh Cassius," Patricia cried, "he
wants to marry our daughter!"

Cassius looked pained. He sighed heavily, wrung his hands, looked as a
man at war with himself. But he shook his head. "Quintus Sertorius," he
said with a mixture of grief and warmth, "you are indeed a fine man, and I
have no doubt at all you would provide for, and love the woman you marry.
But I am afraid you cannot marry our daughter!" Quintus looked stricken,
seeing his hopes and dreams go up in smoke. He plopped back down on his
seat, extended his arms to Cassius. "But dear Cassius, May I know the
reason? Please, whatever defect you see in me, I shall rectify! I beg you
tell me, why???"
Cassius sighed again. "Well Quintus....I don't know how to say this, but the
reason I cannot let you marry our daughter is that we don't HAVE a daughter!"

The End

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] THE PROPOSAL---a story
From:	"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 06:29:13 -0500

I love your story, and once you submit it to the festival I am sure it will
win!

QS

----- Original Message -----
From: <gcassiusnerva@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 6:20 AM
Subject: [novaroma] THE PROPOSAL---a story

> CHARACTERS OF THE NARRATIVE
>
> Quintus Sertorius---an unmarried plebeian, extremely wealthy, ambitious,
> frugal.
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus---senator of Rome, not at all wealthy, dignified,
the
> perfect model of Roman manhood.
>
> Patricia Cassia---his exquisite wife, the perfect model of Roman
womanhood.
>
> THE SETTING: A private dinner at the Quintus Serotrius' home in ancient
> republican Rome.
>
> and now, THE PROPOSAL, by Gaius Cassius Nerva.
>
> Quintus Sertorius paced anxiously in the atrium of his house in the
> wealthy district of Rome, pausing only to look through the open door of
his
> study at the elegant, imported Greek time piece on his desk. He had
checked
> and double-checked the progress of the cooks to make certain the meal was
> prepared exactly right. Everything had to be perfect, nothing left to
> chance, for the wealthy equestrian Quintus Sertorius had pinned his hopes
and
> his ambitions for the future upon the success of this night, when the
noble
> Marcus Cassius Julianus, patrician and senator of Rome, with his elegant
wife
> Patricia, would be joining him for dinner.
>
> Senator Cassius ignored the chill of the evening air as he and his
wife
> made their way to Quintus Sertorius' house, deep in thought. This was not
a
> mere social dinner they had been invited to, for he knew Quintus Sertorius
> only as an acquaintance, and not as a personal friend. Their relations
were
> cordial to be sure, but Sertorius was a man who made his vast enviable
> fortune in the running of businesses and his part ownership of several
mines
> in Spain, and Cassius was not only a Senator but a Patrician, and as such
> could never stoop to the actual running of a business enterprise. Perhaps
if
> he could, things would be much more comfortable for him, for his branch of
> the Cassii had seen their wealth dwindle away over the years. Only the
> income from a few small real estate holdings provided them with some
comfort.
> He had, of course, his flawless pedigree, and his impeccable dignitas
which
> he wore so naturally, like his toga with its purple senatorial stripe.
His
> wife, Patricia, was also of unimpeachable family background. If she
harbored
> any distaste for the necessity of careful frugality, she never let it
show.
> She bore without complaint the knowledge that her husband lacked the funds
> necessary to stand even for the Praetorship, the next highest office to
> Consul. To her sensible mind, being Roman, being herself, having Cassius
as
> her husband, honoring the gods, and keeping the virtues was more than
enough
> for a happy life, even if her husband would never be able to rise above
his
> back-bench seat in the senate house.
>
> They were met at the door by one of Sertorius' servants, who took
their
> cloaks and led them to the large family room where Quintus Sertorius
greeted
> them warmly and announced how honored he was that they would come to share
> his dinner. Cassius and Patricia, by necessity of their frugality and
their
> stoic values, were nearly intoxicated by the sheer opulence of Sertorius'
> home. The frescos, the silver cups, the statues, the glittering
> mosaics...all assaulted their senses mercilessly, gloriously. Here was a
man
> who knew and appreciated beauty. They were feasted like Bacchus. They
drank
> of the finest wines in Rome. There was music, and there were dancers.
They
> talked of Rome, her arts, her books, her politics, and her social
scandals.
> And they had not enjoyed themselves so much in a long time.
>
> "Well, this has been a most delightful evening!", Cassius said,
raising
> his cup to his host. "But my friend, I don't think you invited us here
> tonight only for our company, though I sincerely hope it was as pleasant
for
> you as yours has been to us! Please don't misunderstand, I don't wish to
> sound boorish or ungrateful! It is just that till now we have been mere
> acquaintances. I suspect that there must be a matter of some importance
you
> wish to discuss."
> Quintus Sertorius looked down suddenly into his cup, trying to avoid
the
> all-seeing mental eyes of Cassius. He cleared his throat, found it hard
to
> find the words, as one sent to tell of some calamity that had befallen
their
> nearest and dearest. "Marcus Cassius," he said, near stammering, "before
you
> arrived I had a hundred times in my mind rehearsed for this meeting. And
now
> that the moment has come, I find my poor skills in speech insufficient to
the
> task! Therefore, bear with me and grant me indulgence to speak my mind
> bluntly and plainly." Cassius nodded, rapt in attention. Sertorius
cleared
> his throat again. "Marcus Cassius, I wish to marry your daughter!"
>
> They startled. Cassius jerked back in surprise, and Patricia gasped
a
> faint 'oh' and held her hand to her mouth. "This is how it comes," she
said
> softly, eyes beginning to glisten, "like a thief in the night. The moment
> every woman both looks to with hope, and fears like some unwholesome
> apparition in the night. The moment when a man comes and beckons to take
her
> daughter away from her!" She rose, and wiped her eyes. Her husband
touched
> her arm. "Patricia, love..." She raised her hand to silence him.
"Please
> Cassius, do not interrupt me in mid-soliloquy!"
> Cassius shrugged, and his wife looked at Sertorius. "Can you understand?
> Can you understand the feelings of a woman's heart? But how can you?
You, a
> man! Quintus Sertorius, do you know what it is to be a woman?" Sertorius
> mouth nearly dropped open. "Uh, no. I don't believe I have ever had that
> experience, good lady!"
> "Then how can I tell of it?", Patricia choked out. "A woman on the stool,
> through the agonies of the furies gives life, a small, precious gift of
the
> gods, who she nurses at her breast, and rocks to sleep, and soothes with
> gentle song. She watches her take her first steps, speak her first words,
> and teaches her the virtues, reverence and devotion to her family and the
> gods. She is there when she makes her first friends, when she falls and
> cries, and watches her slowly, but too quickly, grow into the blossom of
> youthful womanhood."
> "Oh gods," Cassius mumbled, dropping his face into his hand, "she's at it
> again!"
> "And she knows in her thoughts and in her heart", Patricia went on, "of
the
> great and merciless Time, ever on the march, which in his own unyielding
> passage brings this moment, when shall come forth a man, to take her place
as
> her daughter's protector, and to carry her beloved child away!"
> "Well, Patricia, it isn't that bad. I mean, it isn't like I live on the
> other end of the empire! We're only a few neighborhoods apart!",
Sertorius
> said, trying to lighten the atmosphere. Cassius could only shake his
head.
> "Oh Cassius!", Patricia cried, falling to her knees and burying her head
on
> his arm. "He wants to marry our daughter!"
> At the conclusion of her soliloquy the servants burst into applause, and
just
> as suddenly stopped as Quintus Sertorius and Cassius glared at them.
> Then Cassius turned to his wife and patted her shoulder. "There, my
> love", he said, "do not be so grieved. We both know it is not possible."
> "Not possible?!?", Sertorius asked, his hopes evaporating. Cassius shook
his
> head. "I'm sorry Quintus Sertorius. You are a fine fellow, but I'm
afraid
> you cannot marry our daughter". Quintus Sertorius extended his arm to
them
> both, and said, "But may I know the reason? Is she betrothed already?"
> "No, Quintus, there is no other husband in waiting", Cassius replied.
> "Then may you tell me why I am...ah! I see!" Quintus beamed a smile.
> "Forgive me Cassius! I know how uncouth I must have seemed, asking you
for
> your daughter, and offering you nothing! Forgive me, please, I jumped way
to
> far ahead of myself. Cassius, I would never ask you for the hand of your
> daughter for nothing. I know, Cassius, that you and I are both in a
position
> to benefit the other."
> "What exactly are you driving at Sertorius?", Cassius asked.
> Quintus Sertorius rose, and began to walk around the room. "Cassius, I
know
> about your financial situation. You could have been Consul long ago, had
you
> the funds to finance your rise through the Cursus Honorum. You never had
the
> chance to serve in those highest offices of state, which your blood and
> illustrious family name entitle you! I too, would like to be someone
> important. I am one of the wealthiest men in Rome, if you will forgive me
> for my immodesty. Yet my family is common. I lack the background, the
> connections, the dignitas you as a Cassii possess. Which is why I ask for
> this marriage. I will be joyed to fund you in your standing for the
offices
> of state, and as an added bonus, I will support your son's rise as well.
And
> for myself, my image and dignitas will be increased immeasurably by a
> marriage link with your family. What a team we would make, eh? I will
> provide the money, you the glory of your family, and your skill at
politics
> and rhetoric. You could show me the ropes and the ins and outs of
politics.
> Which is why I ask you now...let me marry your daughter!" "Oh, Cassius,"
> Patricia wept, "he wants to marry our daughter!"
>
> Cassius looked troubled, felt sorry for Quintus, and shook his head
> again. "I am so sorry Quintus," he said. "Your offer is a most excellent
> one, but I am afraid you may not marry our daughter." "And Quintus again
> looked pained. "But Cassius, please, let me know the reason! If the money
is
> not enough then....ah! I see! How foolish of me! I spoke of money for
your
> political rise, but every good father, and I know you are one, wants to
make
> sure his daughter's husband also uses his wealth to care for his girl! Of
> course, dear Cassius, if you let me marry your daughter, she will want for
> nothing that my money can buy! Slaves, a beautiful home, enjoyment all of
> her days! I would never DREAM of neglecting her needs! Which is why I
> beseech you, Cassius, let me marry your daughter!" "Oh Cassius," Patricia
> cried, "he wants to marry our daughter!"
>
> Cassius looked sorrowful for his friend. He thought, he tried to
speak,
> he looked as if he were a man struggling within. But he shook his head
> finally. "I know you would provide well for her, as every husband should,
> Quintus. But no...you may not marry our daughter!" Quintus looked
pained.
> He reached out his hands to Cassius, as if pleading. "But, please
Cassius,
> may I know the reason? Is it because you could not love me as a brother?"
> Then he slapped his forehead. "Of course! I see!" he cried with
laughter.
> "Every good father, and I know you are one, recoils at the thought of mere
> political marriages! He wants to make sure his daughter will not only be
> provided for, but LOVED! Cassius, oh my dear friend! Of course, when you
> let me marry your daughter, I shall love her above all else! I will not
> treat her as a precious POSSESSION, appearing in public with her, and
having
> mistresses and concubines on the side! Unthinkable for men such as you
and
> I! I shall indeed love her as no other man could! Which is why I beg of
> you, Cassius, let me marry your daughter!" "Oh Cassius," Patricia cried,
"he
> wants to marry our daughter!"
>
> Cassius looked pained. He sighed heavily, wrung his hands, looked as
a
> man at war with himself. But he shook his head. "Quintus Sertorius," he
> said with a mixture of grief and warmth, "you are indeed a fine man, and I
> have no doubt at all you would provide for, and love the woman you marry.
> But I am afraid you cannot marry our daughter!" Quintus looked stricken,
> seeing his hopes and dreams go up in smoke. He plopped back down on his
> seat, extended his arms to Cassius. "But dear Cassius, May I know the
> reason? Please, whatever defect you see in me, I shall rectify! I beg
you
> tell me, why???"
> Cassius sighed again. "Well Quintus....I don't know how to say this, but
the
> reason I cannot let you marry our daughter is that we don't HAVE a
daughter!"
>
> The End
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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Subject:	[novaroma] A new member of gens Vedi
From:	"Lucius Equitius" <vze23hw7@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 08:06:57 -0400

Salvete, Favi et Priscilla Vedii

Congratulations! Thank the Gods as all is well with mother and child!
May you all continue in your joy.

Mars eam protagas
Valete, Equitii

Salvete

It is with boundless pleasure that I would like to welcome Vedia Juliana
(aka Samantha Morgan Bloch) to gens Vedia. She was born last night at 10:22
eastern time via caesarian section, weighing 9 pounds 3 ounces and measuring
20 inches in length. She and her mother, Priscilla Vedia, are resting
comfortably in the hospital (due to be released Saturday), and her father
(yours truly) is bouncing off the walls with joy and pride. :-)

Next year in the Forum!

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[novaroma] ABOUT THE RELIGIO QUESTIONS...
From:	"Javier Mardones" <aries73@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 03:14:32 -0000

SALVE QUIRITES!

Since weeks ago i trieed to comunicate by e-mail with
the Pontifice maximus, but i had not received any reply. It seem that
the same happened with the High priestess of Apollo.

Where i can to ask for questions about religio, over
all about the kind of offering to the Gods?

Vale

Prospective citizen M. Aelius Chilensis

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] I've been away...
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Jerry=20Anguston?= <gaiussentius@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 14:42:10 +1000 (EST)

Ave Flavius Vedius,

Many hearty congrats on the new Vedian member. It is
good to hear that all went well. May Fortuna bless you
and your family.

Valete bene,

Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura

--- Flavius Vedius Germanicus
<germanicus@--------> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
Salvete! 
 
My apologies for having been absent the last couple of
days. I've been... 
busy. :-) 
 
(Did I mention my daughter was born last night!?!?!?
WOOHOOOOOO!!! Now I 
have a reason to set up a gens Vedia website!) 
 
I'll try to catch up on the enormous backlog of mail
which I see from the 
headers deals with a variety of very important (both
generally and to me) 
issues. I beg the patience and understanding of
everyone here... 
 
Next year in the Forum! 
 
Vale, 
 
Flavius Vedius Germanicus, 
Consul 
 
email: germanicus@-------- 
AIM: Flavius Vedius 
ICQ: 106199729 
www: <a
href="http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org">http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org</a> 
 
</tt>

 



<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
<td align=center><font size="-1"


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Taxes (A Challenge)
From:	pvitruviusiulianus@--------
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 06:05:19 -0000

I wish I could participate in this challenge, but I am a student and
have blown all the money I earned from my summer job long ago. I
will simply have to wait til summer or my income tax refund comes in
the mail this year.

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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] ABOUT THE RELIGIO QUESTIONS...
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <amg@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 13:55:16 +0100

Salve M Aeli Chilensis

You should subscribe to the ReligioRomana@-------- list.

Vale
Antonius Gryllus Graecus

-----Original Message-----
From: Javier Mardones [mailto:aries73@--------]
Sent: quinta-feira, 12 de Abril de 2001 4:15
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: [novaroma] ABOUT THE RELIGIO QUESTIONS...

SALVE QUIRITES!

Since weeks ago i trieed to comunicate by e-mail with
the Pontifice maximus, but i had not received any reply. It seem that
the same happened with the High priestess of Apollo.

Where i can to ask for questions about religio, over
all about the kind of offering to the Gods?

Vale

Prospective citizen M. Aelius Chilensis

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: A new member of gens Vedia
From:	ksterne@--------
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 13:16:59 -0000

CONGRATULATIONS...

to the entire gens Vedia. And for the proud Pater and Mater, now the
fun really begins ;-)

Gaius Popillius laenas

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Song From Gladiator
From:	"Adrian Gunn" <shinjikun@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 13:33:53 -0000

Salve,

Well whatever it is, she has a gorgeous voice that's for sure! I'm
defintely going to have to check out her band! Thanks!

Vale,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Legatus of Masschusetts

--- In novaroma@--------, "Lucius Mauricius Procopious" <procopious@h...>
wrote:
> Salve,
> I'm not sure but from watching an interview with Lisa Gerrard on a
Dead Can
> Dance (her band) video she basically said it's non-verbal
vocalization.
> However, DCD sometimes performs Welsh or Celtic tunes, in those
languages,
> so it could be a foreign tongue. My guess without dragging out my
Gladiator
> CD would be it's the non-verbal vocalization type.
>
> Lucius Mauricius Procopious
> Propraetor America Boreoccidentalis
> (This is an unofficial post for which I assume full responsibility)
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> procopious@--------
> ICQ# 83516618
> *America Boreoccidentalis Mail List
> http://www.egroups.com/group/AmBor_Waves
> * The Gens Mauricia
> http://www.geocities.com/procopious
>
> "Indeed, it is not by the plans of men, but by the hand of God that
the
> affairs of men are directed; and this men call Fate, not knowing
the reason
> for what things they see occur; and what seems to be without cause
is easy
> to call the accident of chance. Still, this is a matter every
mortal will
> decide for himself according to his taste."
> -Procopius of Caesarea (in Palestine) [born c.490/507- died
c.560s]
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Adrian Gunn" <--------jikun@-------->
> To: <novaroma@-------->
> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 7:39 AM
> Subject: [novaroma] Song From Gladiator
>
>
> > Salvete!
> >
> > Does anyone know what language(s) the lyrics of the song "Now we
are
> > free" from the Gladiator soundtrack are being sung in?
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > C. Minucius Hadrianus
> > Legatus of Massachusetts
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Song From Gladiator
From:	"Adrian Gunn" <shinjikun@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 13:53:04 -0000

Salvete omnes, et salve Salix Astur,

It is a great soundtrack, isn't it? Speaking of soundtracks, I just
recently purchased Gladiator on DVD, and I ran into something
interesting. The Theatrical Teaser on the Bonus DVD is set to a song
from another great soundtrack - Basil Poledorus's "Riddle of Steel"
from Conan the Barbarian! I'm assuming the Galdiator soundtrack must
not have been complete when they released the Teaser in theaters.
You'll have to excuse me for leaving your name in the nominative case
up top - but I couldn't figure out what the vocative would be!! ~_^

Vale,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Legatus of Massachusetts

-- In novaroma@--------, Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> wrote:
> Salvete omnes, et salve, Minucie Hadriane.
>
> --- Adrian Gunn <--------jikun@--------> e--------bió: >
> Salvete!
> >
> > Does anyone know what language(s) the lyrics of the
> > song "Now we are
> > free" from the Gladiator soundtrack are being sung
> > in?
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > C. Minucius Hadrianus
> > Legatus of Massachusetts
> >
>
> Sorry. I don't know the answer. But I really LOVE that
> soundtrack :-).
>
>
>
> =====
> Bene Valete!
> Gnaeus Salix Astur.
> Protocivis romanus.
>
> _______________________________________________________________
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> Envía mensajes instantáneos y recibe alertas de correo con
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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Sicinius' contribution.
From:	"Adrian Gunn" <shinjikun@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 14:56:33 -0000

Salvete,

I would like to pledge my support to establishing a tax or membership
fee for Nova Roma as well. As has been said many times before on this
list, the generation of revenue is going to be vital if Nova Roma is
ever going to achieve its goals. The debate on this list regarding
the name edict is certainly valid and proper, we should not allow
ourselves to become overly distracted from the tax issue which
effects every citizen and the future of our Micro-Nation. While
discussion and debate over public issues a critical (and very Roman)
component of any Democratic institution, there comes a time when
debate is drawn out too long, and the issues at hand become clouded
and murky, lost in a sea of trivialities. I understand that the
process of Government is complex, and can move slowly (especially in
a democracy), but I think the time is approaching when we need to put
debate aside an make a decision, before we lose sight of what the
issues really were.
To show my support for the tax issue, and following the examples set
by Prima Lucilla Cornelia Fortunata (for her $100 pledge the land
fund last month) and Lucius Sicinius Drusus for his donation, I am
donating $50.00 to Nova Roma's coffers.

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Legatus of Massachusetts

--- In novaroma@--------, lsicinius@-------- wrote:
> --- In novaroma@--------, QFabiusMax@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 4/10/2001 4:54:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> > lsicinius@-------- writes:
> >
> > << As for myself I have allready stated my support. On Sunday
Morning I
> > made a $US 25.00 donation to Nova Roma to show my willingness to
pay
> > my taxes. I issused a challenge at that time asking that others
show
> > thier support in a similar matter sugesting a $US 12.00
donation. That
> > Post only recived TWO replies, and that leaves me wondering just
how
> > much support for taxes there really is.
> >
> > But this is excellent, Lucius Sicinius Drusus. I do hope more
> citizens will
> > emulate
> > your example.
> >
> > Q Fabius Maximus.
>
> Thank you Quintus Fabius!
>
> I really was hoping that others who have spoken out in favor of
taxes
> would accept my challenge and that Nova Roma would benifit from my
> little "poll" regarding taxation, but I fear the Name edict has
> captured the public for now.
>
> How soon can we put this to a vote and get past it? I don't like the
> devisive nature of the debate and fear a prolonged debate will only
> reopen old wounds and create new ones. Most Citizens have allready
> made up thier minds on this matter and aren't willing to change
them,
> so the debate is only causing anger.
>
> Can we please have a vote and get this over with so we can move on
to
> other matters like taxes?
>
> Drusus

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Subject:	[novaroma] festival Sodalitas Musarum
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Tiberius=20Apollonius=20Cicatrix?= <consulromanus@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 07:56:37 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete

I have written a little contribution to the festival
of the Sodalitas Musarum about the institutions in the
local towns of the Imperium Romanum. It is a
translation of a work I had to make for university
lessons of classical history. I already sent it to the
Sodalitas Musarum, but I thought it would also be nice
to post it here, so everyone can read it and write
comments.

Valete
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix

=====
"De te autem, Catilina, cum quiescunt, probant; cum patiuntur, decernunt; cum tacent, clamant." (M. Tullius Cicero: In Catilinam I, 20)

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Sicinius' contribution.
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 10:06:20 -0500 (CDT)

Salve Cai Minuci,

> To show my support for the tax issue, and following the examples set
> by Prima Lucilla Cornelia Fortunata (for her $100 pledge the land
> fund last month) and Lucius Sicinius Drusus for his donation, I am
> donating $50.00 to Nova Roma's coffers.

I, also, will make a donation of $50, my second, via paypal.com today.

Vale, Octavius.

--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] festival Sodalitas Musarum
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Tiberius=20Apollonius=20Cicatrix?= <consulromanus@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 08:11:19 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete

A little mistake made by myself! Attachments are not
allowed on the main list, I forgot! So I'll just put
the whole text in an email: here it is.

INSTITUTIONS IN ROMAN TOWNS AND COLONIES UNDER THE
EMPERORS

This text is about the local authority institutions,
namely the people in command and the laws the local
civilians had to follow. For this text I have used two
excerpts; one out of the Lex Irnitana and one out of
the Lex Ursonensis. First I will explain some things
about these two leges. The Lex Irnitana comes from the
community of Irni, which was granted the title of
municipium Latinum (autonomous local authority). It
consists of six plates of bronze found in 1981. The
Lex Ursonensis is also engraved on plates of bronze,
but these plates (found in 1870) are a copy from the
second half of the second century (under the Flavii).
The community was called Colonia Genetiva Iulia
Ursonensis (a town in Baetica, a little above where is
now Gibraltar), and the people who lived there were
colonists (plebeians of the Urbs Roma) sent there by
the emperor Augustus. I will start with a basic scheme
that summarizes all the laws that were granted in this
style:

GOVERNMENT
· ORDO DECURIONUM
· MAGISTRATES

SECTORS OF GOVERNMENT
· CULT: INFRASTRUCTURE, PERSONNEL, CEREMONIES
· MAINTENANCE OF INTERNAL ORDER
· DEFENSE AGAINST EXTERNAL THREATS
· ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE
· MANAGEMENT OF MUNICIPIUM PATRIMONY
· MANAGEMENT OF MUNICIPIUM FINANCES
· MAINTENANCE OF MUNICIPIUM INFRASTRUCTURE
· TOWN AND COUNTRY PLANNING
· MATERIAL CARE OF CITIZENS: FOOD AND WATER
· CULTURAL CARE OF CITIZENS: EDUCATION, LEISURE
· CONTACTS WITH THE OUTSIDE WORLD

MEANS OF POLICY
· MUNICIPIUM PERSONNEL
· FINANCIEL MEANS
· MUNERA, MUNITIO (WORKS)

All these different aspect will be dealt with in the
following text, starting with the most important form
of government, the ordo decurionum. This was an
organization of about 100 men, who take all decisions
and measures that have to be taken in their
municipium. Those people are called decuriones,
conscripti or senatores. Their rights and duties were
almost the same in every municipia Latina or colonia
Latina. Chapter 30 of the Lex Irnitana:

"The position of decuriones and conscripti: Whoever
are now senators or substitute senators, or decuriones
or conscripti, or substitute decuriones or conscripti
in the Municipium Flavium Irnitanum and those who are
hereafter chosen or chosen in replacement under this
statute to be counted as decuriones or conscripti,
whoever of all of these ought to be decuriones or
conscripti under this statute are to be decuriones or
conscripti of the Municipium Flavium Irnitanum, with
the fullest rights and highest status as of the
decuriones or conscripti of any Latin municipium."

This chapter shows clearly that in every municipium in
the Roman world there were the same institutions, and
consequently also the same laws; there must have been
a blueprint that was used to construct a law for every
municipium. The decuriones, who ruled the municipium,
were assigned for the rest of their lives, and only
when one died or one was removed out of the ordo
decurionum for clear and obvious reasons such as abuse
of his position etc. At various points in time they
came together to discuss matters and take decisions
concerning the municipium. If they had to vote on a
certain matter, the order in which they had to vote
was determined by their social status: how many
children they had, if they had ever been duumvir (see
further), how long they had been decurio etc. The
measures and decisions they took were always written
down in the archives by the scribes of the municipium,
and important matters were engraved on bronze plates.
The decuriones were also bound to certain rights,
beside of their duties. In the first place of course
in watching games in the amphitheatre, where they had
their own space where no-one else could sit down
except the magistrates, and in Urso this was taken
care of by chapter 125 of their statute:

"[…] No-one except those who are written above is to
sit in that place, which place shall have been
granted, assigned, or left for the decuriones, nor is
anyone to lead anyone else to sit in those places nor
is anyone to order anyone else to be led to sit
knowingly with wrongful deceit. If anyone shall have
led anyone else to sit or ordered anyone else to be
led knowingly with wrongful deceit, he is to be
condemned to pay 5000 sesterces to the colonists of
the colonia Genetiva Iulia for each occasion, whenever
he shall have done anything in that matter contrary to
these rules, and there is to be action, suit and claim
for that sum according to this statute by whoever of
them shall wish in a recuperatorial trial before the
duumvir or prefect and there is to be right and
power."

The structure of such a municipium is easy to compare
with the structure of the empire itself: the
decuriones are the senate of a municipium, in a
municipium there were also aediles and quaestores, and
the two consuls of the empire can be compared with the
two duumviri iure dicundo. An example of an
inscription of a career from the year 180:

"CN IVLIO CN / FIL VERO COS / DESIG II AVGVR / LEG AVG
PR PR / PROVINC SYRIAE / LEG AVG PR PR / PROVINC
BRITTANAE / LEG AVG PR PR PRO/VINCIAE GERMAN /
INFERIORIS PRAEF / AERARI SATVRNI / LEG LEG XXX VLPIAE
/ PRAETOR TRIBVNO / PLEBIS QVAESTORI / AVG TRIBVNO
LATI/CLAVIO LEG X FRETEN/SIS TRIVMVIRO / A A A F F /
AEQVENSES / MUNICIPES" (from CIL, III, 8714 + 2732)

[Transcription: Cnaeo Iulio Cnaei filio Vero, consuli
designato II, auguro, legato Augusti pro praetore
provinciae Syriae, legato Augusti pro praetore
provinciae Brittaniae, legato Augusti pro praetore
provinciae Germaniae Inferioris, praefecto aerari
Saturni, legatus legionis XXX Ulpiae, praetori,
tribuno plebes, quaestori Augusti, tribuno laticlivio
legionis X Fretensis, triumviro aere argento auro
flando feriundo, Aequenses municipes.]

The duumviri iure dicundo were occupied with the
administration of justice in the municipium (iure
dicundo, as in their title), and they are the ones who
can call an assembly of the decuriones when some
matters demand attention. This is a function that was
often given to the emperor as a sign of loyalty
towards him. Of course the emperor himself did not
execute this office, but sent someone in his place,
called a praefectus. This is a person out of the ordo
decurionum, who is at least 35 years old. Other
magistrates in the municipium are; as said before, the
quaestores (they administered the finances of the
municipium, but were controlled by the duumviri) and
the aediles, whose function is described in chapter 19
of the Lex Irnitana:

"[…] They are to have the right and power of managing
corn-supply, the sacred buildings, the sacred and holy
places, the town, the roads, the districts, the
drains, the baths and the market and of checking
weights and measures; of managing the vigiliae when
occasion arises; and of seeing to and doing whatever
else the decuriones or conscripti decide is to be done
by the aediles; likewise of seizing a pledge from the
municipes and incolae, which may not be more than
10000 sesterces per person per day; likewise of
imposing a fine on them or pronouncing a condemnation
against them not over 5000 sesterces per person per
day. And those aediles (already in office) and those
who are hereafter appointed under this statute are to
have jurisdiction and the right of granting or
assigning a iudex or recuperatores in those cases and
between those parties where the duumviri have
jurisdiction, up to 1000 sesterces, according to the
rules in this statute. […]"

Each of the magistrates was also granted a few public
slaves to help him perform his duty. In Urso the
retinue of a duumvir consisted of two lictors, one
servant, two scribes, two messengers, a clerk, a
crier, an haruspex (who predicts the future) and a
flute-player. The aediles got a scribe, four public
slaves, a crier, an haruspex and a flute-player.

Now we will continue with the different sectors of
government, starting with the cult. As we all know,
religion was very important in the ancient Roman
Empire. Most of the religious duties were performed by
the magistrates mentioned above, but there were also
priests in a municipium, called pontifices, augures,
flamines or sacerdoti, mostly grouped in a college.
Chapter 66 of the Lex Ursonensis:

"[…] And for those pontiffs and augurs, who shall be
in each of their colleges, and for their children,
there is to be exemption from military service and
compulsory public service prescribed by what is
sacred, as for a Roman pontiff, and their periods of
military service are all to be credited to them.
Concerning auspices and whatever things shall pertain
to those matters, jurisdiction and right of judgment
are to belong to the augurs. And those pontiffs and
augurs at the games, whenever the magistrates shall
give them publicly, and when those pontiffs and augurs
shall perform the public sacrifices of the colonia
Genetiva Iulia, are to have the right and power of
wearing togae praetextae. And those pontiffs and
augurs are to have the right and power to watch games
and combats of gladiators among the decuriones."

The maintenance of the internal order was mostly in
hands of the vigiliae, something like the police in
our times. In both of these law texts there has
nothing survived about this topic, only a chapter that
forbids illegal gatherings and conspiracies. Only some
chapters about defence against external threats have
survived, saying that the duumvir or praefectus may
lead the armed citizens outside the city to defend the
territory. These threats were mostly dealt with by the
legions, but it might have been possible that in some
cases the citizens were also called to arms to defend
their properties. The duumvir or praefectus leading
them then got the military rank of a tribunus militum,
and all the powers and duties according to this title.
The boundaries of a town are also determined by law
and may not be touched by anyone. In most cases there
was a circle ploughed around the town to indicate the
boundaries, because not all towns had walls.

Every municipium has its own patrimony and
infrastructure, which has to be maintained and
controlled. The funds needed to do this will be
discussed further in the text, but let us first look
at the actual infrastructure. Most of the municipia
owned (farm)lands and woods outside the town
boundaries and municipal buildings within the
boundaries. These places were public domain to all of
the inhabitants, but sometimes they had to pay
entrance fees. The buildings we are talking about are
baths, (amphi)theatres temples, and of course the
forum.

Town and country planning is not an invention of the
last century; in fact it existed even in the Roman
Empire. Some excerpts out of the Lex Irnitana and Lex
Ursonensis:

"No-one in the town of the Municipium Flavium
Irnitanum or where buildings are continuous with that
town, is to unroof or destroy or see to the demolition
of a building, except by the resolution of the
decuriones or conscripti, when the majority of them is
present, unless he is going to replace it within the
next year. […]" (L.I. ch.62)

"No-one is to prepare a new ustrina (funeral pyre),
where a dead person shall not previously have been
burnt, nearer the town than 500 paces. […]" (L.U.
chapter 74)

"No-one is to have tile works with a capacity of more
than 300 tiles or tile-like objects in the town of the
colonia Iulia. […]" (L.U. chapter 76)

The territory of a town can be inspected by one of the
duumviri, on a decision of the decuriones (with a
decree). Of course there were also public works in a
municipium, like building new baths or an
amphitheatre, or paving a road etc. These works will
be discussed further in the text, but I mentioned them
here already because in regards to city and country
planning, the leges tell that it is forbidden to touch
the properties of individual citizens when such works
are being executed. But this rule also works in the
opposite direction: no citizen is allowed to add
public roads or waters to his property.

About the daily life in the municipia or coloniae
nothing is stated in one of the two leges. Of course
people could enjoy recreation and education, and they
were supported by distributions of food and water.
Recreation mostly consisted in watching the games at
the arena, and the children got their education in
public schools and most of the towns had a library.

Municipia and coloniae of course also held
relationships with other towns and the magistracy.
Various missions could be sent: to congratulate the
emperor on e special day or on achieving something
(birthday, victory in war, etc.), to consult an
oracle, to offer the patronage to an influential
person, etc. The duumviri must call a meeting of the
decuriones to decide which ambassadors will be sent
and how much money they get, chapter <H> of the Lex
Irnitana:

"A duumvir is to give each ambassador under the
heading of daily expenses as much as the decuriones or
conscripti decided was to be given."

A municipium or colonia can't operate properly without
certain means of policy. In the first place money, but
how did they get it and where did it come from? When
important people died, they mostly gave away a part of
their fortune to their municipium or colonia. In most
cases they also determined what the money must be used
for: banquets, gladiatorial combats, distributions,
etc. An example in an inscription about Pliny the
younger (translated by myself):

C Plinius L f Ouf Caecilius Secundus, […] has ordered
by will to decorate the baths for the sum of 300000
sesterces and furthermore 200000 sesterces for
maintenance, he also gave with a legate 1866666
sesterces to the municipium as cost of maintenance for
his 100 freedmen, of which, after these men died, the
interest would serve to give a banquet each year to
the people of the municipium, during his life he has
already given 500000 sesterces as cost of maintenance
for the boys and girls of the municipium, and a
library with 100000 sesterces for maintenance.

Another source of money are the fines, imposed by
decuriones, aediles or duumviri. In the two leges the
amount varies between 1000 and 100000 sesterces.
People also had to pay taxes, but information on this
topic is very scarce. People who became decurio had to
pay a summa honoraria, a sum of money they paid to the
municipium or colonia to be received in the ordo
decurionum, just as the senatores did in the Urbs
Roma. And the local authorities also leased out lands
and loaned money at interest.

But money wasn't all they needed; they also needed
people who did the work, slaves. They did not do the
big infrastructure works, but formed the staff of a
municipal magistrate as scriba, lictor, tibicen, etc.
They got paid from the common funds of the municipium
or colonia, and their wage was called aes
apparitorium. Of course they also had to administer an
oath because most of them had a rather important
function (mostly financial). Chapter 81 of the Lex
Ursonensis:

"Whoever shall be duumviri or aediles of the colonia
Iulia, they are to administer an oath to their
scribes, who shall record public money and the
accounts of the colonists, before they write or handle
the public records, in a contio, openly, before the
light of day, on a market day, facing the forum, by
Iupiter and the ancestral gods, that they will guard
the public money of that colony and keep true
accounts, as they shall deem it proper, without
wrongful deceit, and they will not falsify records
knowingly with wrongful deceit. […]"

As I said before, the greater works (construction
etc.) were not performed by slaves, but by the
citizens of the community. Those works or munera are
controlled by the aediles and the citizens who are
working must be between 14 and 60 years old. Most of
these munera are decided by the decuriones, but they
could also be contracted out to rich citizens (who got
their money back from the common funds of the
citizens). Chapter 98 of the Lex Ursonensis:

"Whatever construction work the decuriones of this
colony shall have decreed, if the majority of the
decuriones shall have been present, when that matter
shall be discussed, it is to be lawful for that
construction work to take place, provided that they
not decree more each year for each adult man than five
days' work each and for pairs of draught animals for
each yoke three days' work each. And the aediles who
shall then be in office are to be in charge of that
construction work according to the decree of the
decuriones. As the decuriones shall have decided, so
they are to see that the construction work is done,
provided that work be not exacted unwillingly of that
person who shall be less than fourteen years or more
than sixty years old. Whoever in that colony shall
have a domicile or estate and shall not be a colonist
of that colony, he is to be liable to the same
construction work as a colonist."

And I would like to finish off with some general
chapters about the law itself in the Lex Irnitana:

"On whatever matters there is no explicit provision or
rule in this statute, concerning the law under which
the municipes of the Municipium Flavium Irnitanum
should deal with each other, they are to deal with
each other in all these matters under the civil law
under which Roman citizens deal or will deal with each
other. Whatever does not take place contrary to this
statute and whatever is done in such a way that it
does not take place or is not done with wrongful
intent, is to be legal and valid." (Chapter 93)

"As the municipes should obey this statute, so the
incolae of that municipium are to obey it." (Chapter
94)

Any duumvir who is in charge of the administration of
justice in that municipium is to see that this statute
is inscribed on bronze at the earliest possible moment
and affixed in the most prominent place in that
municipium so that it may be properly read from ground
level." (Chapter 95)

THE END

Written by Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix (aka Dennis
Temmerman)
Finished III ID. APRILIS MMDCCLIV AUC (April 10th
2001)

=====
"De te autem, Catilina, cum quiescunt, probant; cum patiuntur, decernunt; cum tacent, clamant." (M. Tullius Cicero: In Catilinam I, 20)

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Subject:	Re: Another correction (Re: [novaroma] Replies)
From:	"Lucius Mauricius Procopious" <procopious@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 08:46:08 -0700

Salvete Draco,
In response to your comments about the difficulty involved in getting
activity on the other lists, I know how you feel. I have repeatedly offered
positions in my staff to my neighbors in this Province and have gotten
little response. It's been easy to get frustrated with this occurrence. I
feel I must be failing somehow. But I'm not, nor are you. Even though you've
noticed it's always the same people starting artificial conversations on
some lists, there are people doing it. We are growing. Have patience.
Remember some of us have three babies in diapers. (= VERY busy!)Just about
the time you feel as if you can't do anything right the highly esteemed
senior consul (congrats pop) mentions your Province as one which is active
in the real world. You feel better. So let me mention the deadline for
entries for our current festival is Sunday if I'm not mistaken. Let's get
some entries rolling in! Let's be active and moving forward to find what we
have in common that can bring us together to build this great Nova Roma.

Lucius Mauricius Procopious
Propraetor America Boreoccidentalis
(This is an unofficial post for which I assume full responsibility)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
procopious@--------
ICQ# 83516618
*America Boreoccidentalis Mail List
http://www.egroups.com/group/AmBor_Waves
* The Gens Mauricia
http://www.geocities.com/procopious

"Indeed, it is not by the plans of men, but by the hand of God that the
affairs of men are directed; and this men call Fate, not knowing the reason
for what things they see occur; and what seems to be without cause is easy
to call the accident of chance. Still, this is a matter every mortal will
decide for himself according to his taste."
-Procopius of Caesarea (in Palestine) [born c.490/507- died c.560s]
----- Original Message -----
From: "S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 1:43 AM
Subject: Re: Another correction (Re: [novaroma] Replies)

> Salve O Consul,
>
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: S. Apollonius Draco [mailto:hendrik.meuleman@--------]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 11:52 AM
> > >
> > > Sorry, I meant here: NR is an empty bubble if it only has
> administration.
> >
> > Then I am very very happy to say that there is much more in Nova Roma
than
> > mere administration. Real-world meetings everywhere and growing (in my
own
> > locale, I am pleased to say they they are held twice a month), Roman
Days
> in
> > June, RubiCon in October, local chapters in the offing in Thule,
> > Boreoccidentalis, Australia, and more-- ohh-- it is SUCH a great time to
> be
> > a Nova Roman!
> >
> > Allow me to calm your particular fear, Formosanus; NR does not only have
> > administration. It has real people, getting together in real places, in
> real
> > ways, and really reconstructing the Roman Republic. Help us! You have so
> > much to offer!
>
> Only thing is... I am not Formosanus. It's not the first time the Dragon
is
> mistaken for the Formosan... I wonder how that comes! :)
>
> > And you, over there in the corner-- help us too! And you, who learned
> Latin
> > when you were a kid-- c'mon, help! And you, with the machine-shop, come
> on!
> > And you, who don't think you have any skills to contribute. Yes, you do.
> You
> > just haven't figured out HOW they contribute yet. We'll need everyone
> before
> > it's over.
> >
>
> I agree with this optimism and enthusiasm, and you're right that in
America
> there are more local meetings than ever. However, despite my repeated
> callings, all non-political lists (with the exception of the Religio
Romana
> list) are as good as dead. What's more, when they do spring to life, it's
> usually artificially, and it's always done by the same people.
>
> Vale bene,
> Draco
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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Subject:	[novaroma] University charter
From:	"Lucius Mauricius Procopious" <procopious@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 09:24:17 -0700

Lucius Mauricius Procopious Nova Romani SPD

(will someone tell me if my address above is correct?)
I apologize for not remembering the name of the school or the individual involved but what is the status of the charter at (Boston U?) I'm hoping to begin my pursuit of a Classics degree this Fall or Winter and would like to start a charter at my school. Any information on the established group would be appreciated.
As for another issue, adoption into Gens, mentioned under THE divisive thread, I'd like to comment. Adoption was a common institution in Roma Antiqua. And I'm not sure if adoption into a Gens is the same thing as adoption into a family. Not that I think a Gens wasn't family. But not in the way we think of it. Wasn't a Gens more like a clan? Couldn't you marry within your Gens? I'm not stating historical fact here, nor am I trolling to get bashed, but if I'm incorrect would someone please let me, and the rest of the group, know.
As for our practice of adoption into a Gens being role-playing would it help to look to the future? To a day hopefully in our lifetimes when cives in a Gens might find a way to live together and build a small piece of our nation?
We don't have physical sovereign territory, yet we aspire to be a nation. Hopefully, that day will come. Until it does there are many ways we can act like a nation even though we are only a corporation for now. For example, reference a recent post by Pontifex Grachus. Likewise our cives don't live together, yet they aspire to form families. Let us look for ways that our Gens can fill the role of family as well. Hopefully, that day will come soon also. Maybe it's here in a few places? Anyone have any examples of their Gens filling the role of family?

Next year in the Forum!

Lucius Mauricius Procopious
Propraetor America Boreoccidentalis
(This is an unofficial post for which I assume full responsibility)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
procopious@--------
ICQ# 83516618
*America Boreoccidentalis Mail List
http://www.egroups.com/group/AmBor_Waves
* The Gens Mauricia
http://www.geocities.com/procopious

"Indeed, it is not by the plans of men, but by the hand of God that the affairs of men are directed; and this men call Fate, not knowing the reason for what things they see occur; and what seems to be without cause is easy to call the accident of chance. Still, this is a matter every mortal will decide for himself according to his taste."
-Procopius of Caesarea (in Palestine) [born c.490/507- died c.560s]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[novaroma] Sodalis Familiaris -- Membership Re-opening
From:	<domusludus@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 15:29:31 -0000

Salvete,

I would like to announce that the Sodalis Familiaris will again be accepting new members. The original membership list was lost, so I will be starting from scratch. If you are interested in the Families and Children, please contact me and I will consider you for membership.

Pax vobiscum,
Seia Silvania Atia

Founder: Sodalis Familiaris http://home.earthlink.net/~domusludus/
http://www.crosswinds.net/~domusludus/

http://home.earthlink.net/~domusludus/temple/
http://www.crosswinds.net/~domusludus/temple/

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] A new member of gens Vedia
From:	Mia <tuozine@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 12:45:55 -0400

Congratulations!

Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote:
>
> It is with boundless pleasure that I would like to welcome Vedia
> Juliana
> (aka Samantha Morgan Bloch) to gens Vedia. She was born last night at
> 10:22

--

Mia Soderquist
http://www.papasody.com
"Who is she that looketh forth as the morning,
fair as the moon, clear as the sun, and
terrible as an army with banners?" (Song 6:10)

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: University charter
From:	lsicinius@--------
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:05:45 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "Lucius Mauricius Procopious" <procopious@h...>
wrote:
> Lucius Mauricius Procopious Nova Romani SPD
>
> (will someone tell me if my address above is correct?)
> I apologize for not remembering the name of the school or the
individual involved but what is the status of the charter at (Boston
U?) I'm hoping to begin my pursuit of a Classics degree this Fall or
Winter and would like to start a charter at my school. Any
information on the established group would be appreciated.
> As for another issue, adoption into Gens, mentioned under THE
divisive thread, I'd like to comment. Adoption was a common
institution in Roma Antiqua. And I'm not sure if adoption into a Gens
is the same thing as adoption into a family. Not that I think a Gens
wasn't family. But not in the way we think of it. Wasn't a Gens more
like a clan? Couldn't you marry within your Gens? I'm not stating
historical fact here, nor am I trolling to get bashed, but if I'm
incorrect would someone please let me, and the rest of the group,
know.
> As for our practice of adoption into a Gens being role-playing
would it help to look to the future? To a day hopefully in our
lifetimes when cives in a Gens might find a way to live together and
build a small piece of our nation?
> We don't have physical sovereign territory, yet we aspire to be a
nation. Hopefully, that day will come. Until it does there are many
ways we can act like a nation even though we are only a corporation
for now. For example, reference a recent post by Pontifex Grachus.
Likewise our cives don't live together, yet they aspire to form
families. Let us look for ways that our Gens can fill the role of
family as well. Hopefully, that day will come soon also. Maybe it's
here in a few places? Anyone have any examples of their Gens filling
the role of family?
>
> Next year in the Forum!
>
> Lucius Mauricius Procopious
> Propraetor America Boreoccidentalis

Salve Lucius Mauricius,

The Gens had more of a clan structure than what we see in Nova Roma.
A Gens consisted of multiple families each of which had a
Paterfamilis. Some of these families were related being distant
cousins, while others had no blood relationship at all.

Typically a Gens would have started as a family unit. As the family
grew over the generations a gens would consist of ever more distant
cousins who would be recognized as seprate families within the same
gens.

Non relatives would enter the Gens in several ways. If a Roman
arranged for someone to become a citizen, then the new Citizen would
become a client and would adopt the pranomen and gens of his patron,
retaing his original name as his cognomen. Freedmen joined the Gens
of thier former Master in a similar manner. These new members of the
Gens would form families that weren't related by blood to the older
families, though a cliental bond would exist to one of these families.

One other thing. The Patrician Gens of Antiquita also contained
Plebs. If the Patrician G. Julius Caesar freed his slave Stichus, the
new citizen would be G. Julius Stichus and a member of the Plebian
order despite his Gens name.

Vale,
Lucius Sicinius Drusus

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Digest Number 1329
From:	jmath669642reng@--------
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 13:47:18 -0400 (EDT)

Salvete, to the Family of Germanicus;

My fondest congratulations to you and your lovely wife. Welcome to your
new-born child, and my best wishes for you all.

Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] A new member of gens Vedi
From:	Lucilla Cornelia Cinna <CorneliaLucilla@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 20:13:29 +0200

Savete Flavi Vedi Germanice Consul atque Priscilla Vedia Serena Curatrix
sermonem

My deepest congratulations!
Gratiae Lucinae everything went well - and I hope Priscilla Vedia will
be up and fine very very soon to return home with your daughter.
Dis iuvantibus curate ut bene valeatis

Lucilla Cornelia Cinna

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Subject:	[novaroma] The alternative name-change edict
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 14:23:24 -0400

Salvete

I'm still going very, very slowly through the voluminous email that's piled
up, but I did want to point out that L Marius actually posted the
alternative wording for the edictum (reluctantly) at my urging. It was sent
to me privately a while ago, but I thought it would be best if it came from
the source. So, regardless of what you may think of the _content_ of the
suggested alternative, please rest assured that the impetus for the post
came from me, rather than some desire to cause a ruckus. I would also urge
everyone to comment on the substance of the suggested alternatives, rather
than any ancilliary issues.

I'll be posting on the substance of the whole issue later tonight (assuming
that I can tear myself away from feeding little Vedia long enough to do
so!).

Oh, and thanks to everyone for your kind words about our blessed event. It's
wonderful to see such an outpouring of good feelings. We are truly friends,
even if we do disagree at times.

Next year in the Forum!

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org

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Subject:	[novaroma] New Suecica homepage
From:	=?iso-8859-1?Q?Hampus_R=E5de?= <hampus.rade@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 20:17:50 +0200

Salve omnes
An updated version of the Regio Suecica homepage is out now. The address is:
http://hem.fyristorg.com/regiosuecica/Indexpage.htm The homepage is not
finished yet but some important things can you find there.

With respect and friendship
Vibius Minucius Falco
Procurator ad Res Internas Thules
***************************

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Subject:	[novaroma] New Regio Suecica homepage
From:	=?iso-8859-1?Q?Hampus_R=E5de?= <hampus.rade@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 20:30:22 +0200

Salve omnes
An updated version of the Regio Suecica homepage is out now. The address is:
http://hem.fyristorg.com/regiosuecica/Index.htm The homepage is not finished
yet but some important things can you find there. In the last mail the
address where wrong, excuse me.

With respect and friendship
Vibius Minucius Falco
Procurator ad Res Internas Thules
***************************

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Subject:	[novaroma] Attention Cives in Provincia America Medioccidentalis Superior
From:	VMoeller@--------
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 18:56:16 -0000

Salvete Quirites!

I am trying to organize the provincia a little bit and need your
help!

Please log on to the web page for our province and send me an
email giving me a brief statement of what your interests are in Nova
Roma. Are they military historical, social, academic, spiritual,
cultural, (all of the above)?

I want to start a weekly dialogue/newletter among the citizens of
the province and I could sure use your assistance in defining the
parameters of the newsletter. Thanks in advance.

Valete,

---Secunda Cornelia Valeria
Quaestrix of Nova Roma et
ProPraetorix America Medioccidentalis Superior

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Subject:	[novaroma] Appointment in Thule 12th April 2754
From:	Christer Edling <tjalens.h@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 21:03:27 +0200

Ex Officio Propraetoris Thulae

Edictum Propraetoricium V
about the appointment of a Legatus Regionis Suecicae, (Legate of the
Swedish Region) and the Procurator ad Res Internas Thules (Head of the
internal affairs of Thule)

It is a great pleasure for me, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, to appoint this
Honorable citizen to two ordinary positions within Provincia Thule and the
Cohors Propraetoris (The Propraetorian Staff, Provincial Governament)! I,
as a Nova Roman citizen within the Provincia Thule, am proud to see the
Gravitas and Pietas this citizen shows! My workload is heavy at this point
and my amicus Vibius Minucius Falco has taken on him to ease some of this
burden. To give him the possibility to act officially, I give him the
authority to act in my name in some well defined tasks as Procurator ad Res
Internas Thules.

I. Honorable Vibius Minucius Falco is hereby appointed as Prolegatus
Regionis Suecicae, (Provisional Legati on Trial of the Swedish Region).

II. Honorable Vibius Minucius Falco is hereby appointed as Procurator ad
Res Internas Thules (Head of the internal affairs of Thule) to handle some
important missions for me!

III. Above appointed official is asked to observe that he is bound by the
"Approved Regula (Charter) for the Administration of Thule" as it will be
published on the 15th of April 2001.

IV. This edictum becomes effective immediately.

Given April 12th, in the year of the consulship of Flavius Vedius
Germanicus and Marcus Cassius Iulianus, 2754 AUC.

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Propraetor Thules

Vale

Christer Edling
alias
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
SHAMALI SALUKIS
************************************************
CAMELOT ROLEPLAYING WORKSHOP
Robert Andersson & Christer Edling
************************************************
IF GAMES - If reality was different!
Markus Sundbom & Christer Edling
************************************************
MAIN E-MAIL ADDRESS: tjalens.h@--------
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80

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Subject:	[novaroma] Egroup chellenge
From:	"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 14:25:56 -0500

12 Apr 2001

Salve All

I would like to announce two things; first, we have a new member to our Provincia Egroup which brings our total to 25, with a Provincial Population of 22! Not bad, but not as good as the Provincia Egroup I just joined. The Egroup for the Provincia of Britannia has 59 members, with only 37 citizens!! Now that will be hard to beat. But we in Canada Occidentalis proudly stand in second place, with 25!

Vale

Quintus Sertorius

Queastor
Nova Roma
Propraetor
Canada Occidentalis

Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma

Join the egroup for Canada Occidentalis
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_CanOcc

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Subject:	[novaroma] Propraetorium named in Thule 12th April 2754
From:	Christer Edling <tjalens.h@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 23:06:55 +0200

Ex Officio Propraetoris Thulae

Edictum Propraetoricium VI
about the naming of Savar in norhern part of Regio Suecica as the
Praetorium of Provincia Thule

I, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, live in Savar, 20 km north of the university
city of Umeĺ, as for the moment two more cives do (a number that surely
will increase). This is my current residens. I hereby name Savar the
Propraetorium (Headquarter, Residens of the Propraetor, Capital) of Thule!

II. I also hereby invite any Nova Roman travelling in the north of Regio
Suecica to visit my home and to stay at my place for the night, if anyone
should so wish.

III. This edictum becomes effective immediately.

Given April 12th, in the year of the consulship of Flavius Vedius
Germanicus and Marcus Cassius Iulianus, 2754 AUC.

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Propraetor Thules

Vale

Christer Edling
alias
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
SHAMALI SALUKIS
************************************************
CAMELOT ROLEPLAYING WORKSHOP
Robert Andersson & Christer Edling
************************************************
IF GAMES - If reality was different!
Markus Sundbom & Christer Edling
************************************************
MAIN E-MAIL ADDRESS: tjalens.h@--------
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] ATTN (Religio Romana): pridie Idus Aprilias (April 12)
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Gnaeus=20Salix=20Astur?= <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 23:45:09 +0200 (CEST)

Salvete, romani quirites; et salve, Grylle Graece.

I wanted to thank you for your great work, informing us of every day's
religious significance. I hope you are keeping your essays somewhere;
it would be a great idea to somewhat add them to the Nova Roma website.
Perhaps with links from the calendar...

--- Antonio Grilo <amg@--------> escribió: > Salvete omnes
>
> This is one of the dies nefasti (N), a day on which no legal action
> can take
> place.
>
> This is the first day of the Cerialia, the festival in honour of
> Ceres.
> Ceres is the Goddess of grain Who feeds the people. She is sometimes
> equated
> with Tellus.
> To Ceres we offer the first ears of grain and we sacrifice to her
> before the
> harvest (see Cato's
> sacrifice to Ceres at
> http://www.novaroma.org/religio_romana/cato_ceres.html).
> Ceres is a very ancient Goddess and she has a dedicated Flamen, the
> Flamen
> Cerialis. Nevertheless, in 496 BC, a famine striked Rome and the
> Sibylline
> Oracles ordered the Greek cults of Demeter, Iacchus and Kore to be
> introduced
> and equated to as Ceres, Liber and Libera (already the names of
> traditional
> Roman Gods).
> In 493 BC the new Temple is dedicated on the Aventine Hill. The
> public
> priestess of the new temple is usually Greek (most probably from
> Magna
> Graecia) and the
> officiated liturgy at the new temple is Greek too. The Aediles Plebis
> care
> for the temple and
> have their official residence in it. They are responsible for the
> games at
> the Cerealia. The Aventine Triad is thus associated to the Plebs.
> As such, besides its traditional Roman aspect (as represented by the
> Flamen
> Cerealis), Ceres acquires a Greek aspect (represented by the Aventine
> Triad
> and the temple on the Aventine).
> The Cerialia celebrate the growth of grain and agricultural products
> in
> general. Initially celebrated on April 19, the festival is enlarged
> to span
> from April 12 to April 19, though the latter continues to be the main
> day of
> the Cerialia. Appropriate sacrifices are wheat grains, salts which
> crepitate
> in the fire, and incense (storax incense as appropriate to Demeter?).
> In the
> lack of incense, resin torches are lighted. The sow, sacred to Ceres,
> is
> also
> sacrificed. The Flamen Cerialis plays certainly a major role
> officiating the
> public sacrifices.
>
> Valete bene in Pace Deorum
> Antonius Gryllus Graecus
> Pontifex
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

=====
Bene Valete!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Protocivis romanus.

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Subject:	Re: Another correction (Re: [novaroma] Replies)
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Gnaeus=20Salix=20Astur?= <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 23:40:39 +0200 (CEST)

Salvete, romani quirites; et salve, Apolloni Draco

--- "S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> escribió: > Salve O
Consul,
>
> I agree with this optimism and enthusiasm, and you're right that in
> America
> there are more local meetings than ever. However, despite my repeated
> callings, all non-political lists (with the exception of the Religio
> Romana
> list) are as good as dead. What's more, when they do spring to life,
> it's
> usually artificially, and it's always done by the same people.
>
> Vale bene,
> Draco

Well, I am trying to convince people to make local meetings in Europe.
I've made several calls to all Novoromans to join me in the celebration
of the Parilia in Madrid. This far, just two people have answered my
call (and one did it just to say he couldn't come!). And I KNOW there
are more than two citizens in the Madrid area (I personally know some
of them). Do you have any ideas to dynamize our European citizens?

Another idea could be to prepare an all-European meeting. After all, if
Americans can do it, why can't we? We generally live much closer to
each other!

=====
Bene Valete!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Protocivis romanus.

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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] A new member of gens Vedia
From:	"Adrian Gunn" <shinjikun@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 18:15:23 -0400

Salvete Flavi Vedi Germanice et Priscilla Vedia Serena,

Congratulations! May the Gods watch over your little one and bring her
health and good fortune!

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus

-----Original Message-----
From: Flavius Vedius Germanicus [mailto:germanicus@--------]
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 6:59 PM
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: [novaroma] A new member of gens Vedia

Salvete

It is with boundless pleasure that I would like to welcome Vedia Juliana
(aka Samantha Morgan Bloch) to gens Vedia. She was born last night at 10:22
eastern time via caesarian section, weighing 9 pounds 3 ounces and measuring
20 inches in length. She and her mother, Priscilla Vedia, are resting
comfortably in the hospital (due to be released Saturday), and her father
(yours truly) is bouncing off the walls with joy and pride. :-)

Next year in the Forum!

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
ICQ: 106199729
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Song From Gladiator
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Gnaeus=20Salix=20Astur?= <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 00:05:03 +0200 (CEST)

Salvete, romani quirites; et salve, Minuci Hadriane.

--- Adrian Gunn <shinjikun@--------> escribió: > Salvete omnes, et
salve Salix Astur,
>
> It is a great soundtrack, isn't it? Speaking of soundtracks, I just
> recently purchased Gladiator on DVD, and I ran into something
> interesting. The Theatrical Teaser on the Bonus DVD is set to a song
> from another great soundtrack - Basil Poledorus's "Riddle of Steel"
> from Conan the Barbarian! I'm assuming the Galdiator soundtrack must
> not have been complete when they released the Teaser in theaters.

I also LOVE the soundtrack of "Conan the Barbarian"!. Let me tell you a
story. A friend of mine (whom I have convinced to apply for Novoroman
citizenship) is an absolute fanatic of those two soundtracks. He
sometimes plays "Conan the Barbarian" over and over again, until all
the people in the room (who also like it) ask him to please stop it.
But when he hears "Gladiator"; well, he falls into war-frenzy! He was
once driving a car, put the CD on the player, and when the drums
started, he followed them, taking his hands out of the wheel! Everyone
in the car was pretty scared :-).

(Luckily, I wasn't inside the car that evening).

> You'll have to excuse me for leaving your name in the nominative case
>
> up top - but I couldn't figure out what the vocative would be!!
>

They both are third declination words, so I guess the vocative is equal
to the nominative. Actually, you've written them correctly ;-)!

Thank you, I appreciate your intention.

=====
Bene Valete!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Protocivis romanus.

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] festival Sodalitas Musarum
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Gnaeus=20Salix=20Astur?= <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 00:17:32 +0200 (CEST)

Salvete, romani quirites; et salve, Apolloni Cicatrix.

Great piece of information! It's nice to see a job well done. It has
been specially interesting for me since I have the intention to create
a civitas in Madrid (Spain). I surely will take inspiration from your
essay. Besides, it is even more appropriate because one of the original
texts came from a town in Hispania, so I'd say we would be just
recreating a local tradition :-).

Thank you very much.

Valete Bene.
Gnaeus Salix Astur, protocivis romanus.

--- Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix <consulromanus@--------> escribió: >
Salvete
>
> A little mistake made by myself! Attachments are not
> allowed on the main list, I forgot! So I'll just put
> the whole text in an email: here it is.
>
> INSTITUTIONS IN ROMAN TOWNS AND COLONIES UNDER THE
> EMPERORS
>
>
> This text is about the local authority institutions,
> namely the people in command and the laws the local
> civilians had to follow. For this text I have used two
> excerpts; one out of the Lex Irnitana and one out of
> the Lex Ursonensis. First I will explain some things
> about these two leges. The Lex Irnitana comes from the
> community of Irni, which was granted the title of
> municipium Latinum (autonomous local authority). It
> consists of six plates of bronze found in 1981. The
> Lex Ursonensis is also engraved on plates of bronze,
> but these plates (found in 1870) are a copy from the
> second half of the second century (under the Flavii).
> The community was called Colonia Genetiva Iulia
> Ursonensis (a town in Baetica, a little above where is
> now Gibraltar), and the people who lived there were
> colonists (plebeians of the Urbs Roma) sent there by
> the emperor Augustus. I will start with a basic scheme
> that summarizes all the laws that were granted in this
> style:
>
>
>
> GOVERNMENT
> · ORDO DECURIONUM
> · MAGISTRATES
>
> SECTORS OF GOVERNMENT
> · CULT: INFRASTRUCTURE, PERSONNEL, CEREMONIES
> · MAINTENANCE OF INTERNAL ORDER
> · DEFENSE AGAINST EXTERNAL THREATS
> · ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE
> · MANAGEMENT OF MUNICIPIUM PATRIMONY
> · MANAGEMENT OF MUNICIPIUM FINANCES
> · MAINTENANCE OF MUNICIPIUM INFRASTRUCTURE
> · TOWN AND COUNTRY PLANNING
> · MATERIAL CARE OF CITIZENS: FOOD AND WATER
> · CULTURAL CARE OF CITIZENS: EDUCATION, LEISURE
> · CONTACTS WITH THE OUTSIDE WORLD
>
> MEANS OF POLICY
> · MUNICIPIUM PERSONNEL
> · FINANCIEL MEANS
> · MUNERA, MUNITIO (WORKS)
>
>
>
> All these different aspect will be dealt with in the
> following text, starting with the most important form
> of government, the ordo decurionum. This was an
> organization of about 100 men, who take all decisions
> and measures that have to be taken in their
> municipium. Those people are called decuriones,
> conscripti or senatores. Their rights and duties were
> almost the same in every municipia Latina or colonia
> Latina. Chapter 30 of the Lex Irnitana:
>
> "The position of decuriones and conscripti: Whoever
> are now senators or substitute senators, or decuriones
> or conscripti, or substitute decuriones or conscripti
> in the Municipium Flavium Irnitanum and those who are
> hereafter chosen or chosen in replacement under this
> statute to be counted as decuriones or conscripti,
> whoever of all of these ought to be decuriones or
> conscripti under this statute are to be decuriones or
> conscripti of the Municipium Flavium Irnitanum, with
> the fullest rights and highest status as of the
> decuriones or conscripti of any Latin municipium."
>
> This chapter shows clearly that in every municipium in
> the Roman world there were the same institutions, and
> consequently also the same laws; there must have been
> a blueprint that was used to construct a law for every
> municipium. The decuriones, who ruled the municipium,
> were assigned for the rest of their lives, and only
> when one died or one was removed out of the ordo
> decurionum for clear and obvious reasons such as abuse
> of his position etc. At various points in time they
> came together to discuss matters and take decisions
> concerning the municipium. If they had to vote on a
> certain matter, the order in which they had to vote
> was determined by their social status: how many
> children they had, if they had ever been duumvir (see
> further), how long they had been decurio etc. The
> measures and decisions they took were always written
> down in the archives by the scribes of the municipium,
> and important matters were engraved on bronze plates.
> The decuriones were also bound to certain rights,
> beside of their duties. In the first place of course
> in watching games in the amphitheatre, where they had
> their own space where no-one else could sit down
> except the magistrates, and in Urso this was taken
> care of by chapter 125 of their statute:
>
> "[…] No-one except those who are written above is to
> sit in that place, which place shall have been
> granted, assigned, or left for the decuriones, nor is
> anyone to lead anyone else to sit in those places nor
> is anyone to order anyone else to be led to sit
> knowingly with wrongful deceit. If anyone shall have
> led anyone else to sit or ordered anyone else to be
> led knowingly with wrongful deceit, he is to be
> condemned to pay 5000 sesterces to the colonists of
> the colonia Genetiva Iulia for each occasion, whenever
> he shall have done anything in that matter contrary to
> these rules, and there is to be action, suit and claim
> for that sum according to this statute by whoever of
> them shall wish in a recuperatorial trial before the
> duumvir or prefect and there is to be right and
> power."
>
> The structure of such a municipium is easy to compare
> with the structure of the empire itself: the
> decuriones are the senate of a municipium, in a
> municipium there were also aediles and quaestores, and
> the two consuls of the empire can be compared with the
> two duumviri iure dicundo. An example of an
> inscription of a career from the year 180:
>
> "CN IVLIO CN / FIL VERO COS / DESIG II AVGVR / LEG AVG
> PR PR / PROVINC SYRIAE / LEG AVG PR PR / PROVINC
> BRITTANAE / LEG AVG PR PR PRO/VINCIAE GERMAN /
> INFERIORIS PRAEF / AERARI SATVRNI / LEG LEG XXX VLPIAE
> / PRAETOR TRIBVNO / PLEBIS QVAESTORI / AVG TRIBVNO
> LATI/CLAVIO LEG X FRETEN/SIS TRIVMVIRO / A A A F F /
> AEQVENSES / MUNICIPES" (from CIL, III, 8714 + 2732)
>
> [Transcription: Cnaeo Iulio Cnaei filio Vero, consuli
> designato II, auguro, legato Augusti pro praetore
> provinciae Syriae, legato Augusti pro praetore
> provinciae Brittaniae, legato Augusti pro praetore
> provinciae Germaniae Inferioris, praefecto aerari
> Saturni, legatus legionis XXX Ulpiae, praetori,
> tribuno plebes, quaestori Augusti, tribuno laticlivio
> legionis X Fretensis, triumviro aere argento auro
> flando feriundo, Aequenses municipes.]
>
> The duumviri iure dicundo were occupied with the
> administration of justice in the municipium (iure
> dicundo, as in their title), and they are the ones who
> can call an assembly of the decuriones when some
> matters demand attention. This is a function that was
> often given to the emperor as a sign of loyalty
> towards him. Of course the emperor himself did not
> execute this office, but sent someone in his place,
> called a praefectus. This is a person out of the ordo
> decurionum, who is at least 35 years old. Other
> magistrates in the municipium are; as said before, the
> quaestores (they administered the finances of the
> municipium, but were controlled by the duumviri) and
> the aediles, whose function is described in chapter 19
> of the Lex Irnitana:
>
> "[…] They are to have the right and power of managing
> corn-supply, the sacred buildings, the sacred and holy
> places, the town, the roads, the districts, the
> drains, the baths and the market and of checking
> weights and measures; of managing the vigiliae when
> occasion arises; and of seeing to and doing whatever
> else the decuriones or conscripti decide is to be done
> by the aediles; likewise of seizing a pledge from the
> municipes and incolae, which may not be more than
> 10000 sesterces per person per day; likewise of
> imposing a fine on them or pronouncing a condemnation
> against them not over 5000 sesterces per person per
> day. And those aediles (already in office) and those
> who are hereafter appointed under this statute are to
> have jurisdiction and the right of granting or
> assigning a iudex or recuperatores in those cases and
> between those parties where the duumviri have
> jurisdiction, up to 1000 sesterces, according to the
> rules in this statute. […]"
>
> Each of the magistrates was also granted a few public
> slaves to help him perform his duty. In Urso the
> retinue of a duumvir consisted of two lictors, one
> servant, two scribes, two messengers, a clerk, a
> crier, an haruspex (who predicts the future) and a
> flute-player. The aediles got a scribe, four public
> slaves, a crier, an haruspex and a flute-player.
>
> Now we will continue with the different sectors of
> government, starting with the cult. As we all know,
> religion was very important in the ancient Roman
> Empire. Most of the religious duties were performed by
> the magistrates mentioned above, but there were also
> priests in a municipium, called pontifices, augures,
> flamines or sacerdoti, mostly grouped in a college.
> Chapter 66 of the Lex Ursonensis:
>
> "[…] And for those pontiffs and augurs, who shall be
> in each of their colleges, and for their children,
> there is to be exemption from military service and
> compulsory public service prescribed by what is
> sacred, as for a Roman pontiff, and their periods of
> military service are all to be credited to them.
> Concerning auspices and whatever things shall pertain
> to those matters, jurisdiction and right of judgment
> are to belong to the augurs. And those pontiffs and
> augurs at the games, whenever the magistrates shall
> give them publicly, and when those pontiffs and augurs
> shall perform the public sacrifices of the colonia
> Genetiva Iulia, are to have the right and power of
> wearing togae praetextae. And those pontiffs and
> augurs are to have the right and power to watch games
> and combats of gladiators among the decuriones."
>
> The maintenance of the internal order was mostly in
> hands of the vigiliae, something like the police in
> our times. In both of these law texts there has
> nothing survived about this topic, only a chapter that
> forbids illegal gatherings and conspiracies. Only some
> chapters about defence against external threats have
> survived, saying that the duumvir or praefectus may
> lead the armed citizens outside the city to defend the
> territory. These threats were mostly dealt with by the
> legions, but it might have been possible that in some
> cases the citizens were also called to arms to defend
> their properties. The duumvir or praefectus leading
> them then got the military rank of a tribunus militum,
> and all the powers and duties according to this title.
> The boundaries of a town are also determined by law
> and may not be touched by anyone. In most cases there
> was a circle ploughed around the town to indicate the
> boundaries, because not all towns had walls.
>
> Every municipium has its own patrimony and
> infrastructure, which has to be maintained and
> controlled. The funds needed to do this will be
> discussed further in the text, but let us first look
> at the actual infrastructure. Most of the municipia
> owned (farm)lands and woods outside the town
> boundaries and municipal buildings within the
> boundaries. These places were public domain to all of
> the inhabitants, but sometimes they had to pay
> entrance fees. The buildings we are talking about are
> baths, (amphi)theatres temples, and of course the
> forum.
>
> Town and country planning is not an invention of the
> last century; in fact it existed even in the Roman
> Empire. Some excerpts out of the Lex Irnitana and Lex
> Ursonensis:
>
> "No-one in the town of the Municipium Flavium
> Irnitanum or where buildings are continuous with that
> town, is to unroof or destroy or see to the demolition
> of a building, except by the resolution of the
> decuriones or conscripti, when the majority of them is
> present, unless he is going to replace it within the
> next year. […]" (L.I. ch.62)
>
> "No-one is to prepare a new ustrina (funeral pyre),
> where a dead person shall not previously have been
> burnt, nearer the town than 500 paces. […]" (L.U.
> chapter 74)
>
> "No-one is to have tile works with a capacity of more
> than 300 tiles or tile-like objects in the town of the
> colonia Iulia. […]" (L.U. chapter 76)
>
> The territory of a town can be inspected by one of the
> duumviri, on a decision of the decuriones (with a
> decree). Of course there were also public works in a
> municipium, like building new baths or an
> amphitheatre, or paving a road etc. These works will
> be discussed further in the text, but I mentioned them
> here already because in regards to city and country
> planning, the leges tell that it is forbidden to touch
> the properties of individual citizens when such works
> are being executed. But this rule also works in the
> opposite direction: no citizen is allowed to add
> public roads or waters to his property.
>
> About the daily life in the municipia or coloniae
> nothing is stated in one of the two leges. Of course
> people could enjoy recreation and education, and they
> were supported by distributions of food and water.
> Recreation mostly consisted in watching the games at
> the arena, and the children got their education in
> public schools and most of the towns had a library.
>
> Municipia and coloniae of course also held
> relationships with other towns and the magistracy.
> Various missions could be sent: to congratulate the
> emperor on e special day or on achieving something
> (birthday, victory in war, etc.), to consult an
> oracle, to offer the patronage to an influential
> person, etc. The duumviri must call a meeting of the
> decuriones to decide which ambassadors will be sent
> and how much money they get, chapter <H> of the Lex
> Irnitana:
>
> "A duumvir is to give each ambassador under the
> heading of daily expenses as much as the decuriones or
> conscripti decided was to be given."
>
> A municipium or colonia can't operate properly without
> certain means of policy. In the first place money, but
> how did they get it and where did it come from? When
> important people died, they mostly gave away a part of
> their fortune to their municipium or colonia. In most
> cases they also determined what the money must be used
> for: banquets, gladiatorial combats, distributions,
> etc. An example in an inscription about Pliny the
> younger (translated by myself):
>
> C Plinius L f Ouf Caecilius Secundus, […] has ordered
> by will to decorate the baths for the sum of 300000
> sesterces and furthermore 200000 sesterces for
> maintenance, he also gave with a legate 1866666
> sesterces to the municipium as cost of maintenance for
> his 100 freedmen, of which, after these men died, the
> interest would serve to give a banquet each year to
> the people of the municipium, during his life he has
> already given 500000 sesterces as cost of maintenance
> for the boys and girls of the municipium, and a
> library with 100000 sesterces for maintenance.
>
> Another source of money are the fines, imposed by
> decuriones, aediles or duumviri. In the two leges the
> amount varies between 1000 and 100000 sesterces.
> People also had to pay taxes, but information on this
> topic is very scarce. People who became decurio had to
> pay a summa honoraria, a sum of money they paid to the
> municipium or colonia to be received in the ordo
> decurionum, just as the senatores did in the Urbs
> Roma. And the local authorities also leased out lands
> and loaned money at interest.
>
> But money wasn't all they needed; they also needed
> people who did the work, slaves. They did not do the
> big infrastructure works, but formed the staff of a
> municipal magistrate as scriba, lictor, tibicen, etc.
> They got paid from the common funds of the municipium
> or colonia, and their wage was called aes
> apparitorium. Of course they also had to administer an
> oath because most of them had a rather important
> function (mostly financial). Chapter 81 of the Lex
> Ursonensis:
>
> "Whoever shall be duumviri or aediles of the colonia
> Iulia, they are to administer an oath to their
> scribes, who shall record public money and the
> accounts of the colonists, before they write or handle
> the public records, in a contio, openly, before the
> light of day, on a market day, facing the forum, by
> Iupiter and the ancestral gods, that they will guard
> the public money of that colony and keep true
> accounts, as they shall deem it proper, without
> wrongful deceit, and they will not falsify records
> knowingly with wrongful deceit. […]"
>
> As I said before, the greater works (construction
> etc.) were not performed by slaves, but by the
> citizens of the community. Those works or munera are
> controlled by the aediles and the citizens who are
> working must be between 14 and 60 years old. Most of
> these munera are decided by the decuriones, but they
> could also be contracted out to rich citizens (who got
> their money back from the common funds of the
> citizens). Chapter 98 of the Lex Ursonensis:
>
> "Whatever construction work the decuriones of this
> colony shall have decreed, if the majority of the
> decuriones shall have been present, when that matter
> shall be discussed, it is to be lawful for that
> construction work to take place, provided that they
> not decree more each year for each adult man than five
> days' work each and for pairs of draught animals for
> each yoke three days' work each. And the aediles who
> shall then be in office are to be in charge of that
> construction work according to the decree of the
> decuriones. As the decuriones shall have decided, so
> they are to see that the construction work is done,
> provided that work be not exacted unwillingly of that
> person who shall be less than fourteen years or more
> than sixty years old. Whoever in that colony shall
> have a domicile or estate and shall not be a colonist
> of that colony, he is to be liable to the same
> construction work as a colonist."
>
> And I would like to finish off with some general
> chapters about the law itself in the Lex Irnitana:
>
> "On whatever matters there is no explicit provision or
> rule in this statute, concerning the law under which
> the municipes of the Municipium Flavium Irnitanum
> should deal with each other, they are to deal with
> each other in all these matters under the civil law
> under which Roman citizens deal or will deal with each
> other. Whatever does not take place contrary to this
> statute and whatever is done in such a way that it
> does not take place or is not done with wrongful
> intent, is to be legal and valid." (Chapter 93)
>
> "As the municipes should obey this statute, so the
> incolae of that municipium are to obey it." (Chapter
> 94)
>
> Any duumvir who is in charge of the administration of
> justice in that municipium is to see that this statute
> is inscribed on bronze at the earliest possible moment
> and affixed in the most prominent place in that
> municipium so that it may be properly read from ground
> level." (Chapter 95)
>
>
> THE END
>
> Written by Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix (aka Dennis
> Temmerman)
> Finished III ID. APRILIS MMDCCLIV AUC (April 10th
> 2001)
>
>
> =====
> "De te autem, Catilina, cum quiescunt, probant; cum patiuntur,
> decernunt; cum tacent, clamant." (M. Tullius Cicero: In Catilinam I,
> 20)
>
> __________________________________________________
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>
>
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>

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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Controversy?
From:	Christer Edling <tjalens.h@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 00:49:16 +0200

>Salvete Omnes:
>
>I agree with Marcus Octavius Germanicus. Draco is a dedicated, intelligent
>and hardworking civie.
>
>Bene valete,
>Pompeia Cornelia

Salvete!

I have been busy organizing my Provincia. Now I am slowly coming back to
life and slowly trying to catch up with things. Maybe I'll have to go back
under the surface to organize. But as I now have my nose over the surface
I'll do the forbidden thing and agree by doing the "me too thing": I agree
with Marcus Octavius Germanicus and Pompeia Cornelia. "Draco is a
dedicated, intelligent and hardworking civie". I also don't agree with him
aways, but I value him highly!

Vale

Christer Edling
alias
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
SHAMALI SALUKIS
************************************************
CAMELOT ROLEPLAYING WORKSHOP
Robert Andersson & Christer Edling
************************************************
IF GAMES - If reality was different!
Markus Sundbom & Christer Edling
************************************************
MAIN E-MAIL ADDRESS: tjalens.h@--------
************************************************
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DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Song From Gladiator
From:	Iasonvs Serenvs Carolvs <iasonvs_serenvs@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 15:52:26 -0700 (PDT)

The woman who sings on the gladiator soundtrack is the
vocalist for the group DEAD CAN Dance.

Ias.

--- Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> wrote:
> Salvete omnes, et salve, Minucie Hadriane.
>
> --- Adrian Gunn <shinjikun@--------> escribió:
> >
> Salvete!
> >
> > Does anyone know what language(s) the lyrics of
> the
> > song "Now we are
> > free" from the Gladiator soundtrack are being sung
> > in?
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > C. Minucius Hadrianus
> > Legatus of Massachusetts
> >
>
> Sorry. I don't know the answer. But I really LOVE
> that
> soundtrack :-).
>
>
>
> =====
> Bene Valete!
> Gnaeus Salix Astur.
> Protocivis romanus.
>
>
_______________________________________________________________
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> correo con
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>

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Subject:	[novaroma] Results of Voting in the Comitia Plebis Tributa
From:	Fortunatus <labienus@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 18:01:03 -0500

Tribunus Plebis T Labienus Fortunatus Quiritibus SPD

Voting has ended in the Concilium Plebis, and the results have been
tallied. Seventy-two cives voted, in thirty-one of a possible
thirty-five tribes.

In the race for tribunus plebis, Quintus Sertorius carried fourteen
tribes and Lucius Pompeius Octavianus carried twelve. Therefore, Q
Sertorius is duly elected. Congratulations, Quinte Sertori. I look
forward to working with you. Thank you, Luci Pompei, for making the
attempt. May you have better luck next time.

All thirty-one tribes supported Lex Labiena de Ratione Comitiorum Plebis
Tributorum. It is therefore duly enacted as law, and I ask Curator
Octavius to place it with the other leges in the online Tabularium.

And finally, multas gratias to the seventy-two plebeians who voted. The
Respublica requires participation if it is to work.

Valete

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Results of Voting in the Comitia Plebis Tributa
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:08:47 -0700

Ave and Congratulations Quintus Sertorius!

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fortunatus" <labienus@-------->
To: <novaromaannounce@-------->;
<comitiaplebistributa@-------->
Cc: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 4:01 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Results of Voting in the Comitia Plebis Tributa

> Tribunus Plebis T Labienus Fortunatus Quiritibus SPD
>
> Voting has ended in the Concilium Plebis, and the results have been
> tallied. Seventy-two cives voted, in thirty-one of a possible
> thirty-five tribes.
>
> In the race for tribunus plebis, Quintus Sertorius carried fourteen
> tribes and Lucius Pompeius Octavianus carried twelve. Therefore, Q
> Sertorius is duly elected. Congratulations, Quinte Sertori. I look
> forward to working with you. Thank you, Luci Pompei, for making the
> attempt. May you have better luck next time.
>
> All thirty-one tribes supported Lex Labiena de Ratione Comitiorum Plebis
> Tributorum. It is therefore duly enacted as law, and I ask Curator
> Octavius to place it with the other leges in the online Tabularium.
>
> And finally, multas gratias to the seventy-two plebeians who voted. The
> Respublica requires participation if it is to work.
>
> Valete
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Gender/Name-change Edictum
From:	Iasonvs Serenvs Carolvs <iasonvs_serenvs@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:11:44 -0700 (PDT)

Greetings all..

I was away for several days, and have returned to 414
emails dealing, mostly, with gender. In reading the
words below a thought rattled about, rather
lonely-like I gather, in my brain. Quintus Sertorius
writes of Nova Roma recognition of "macronational"
gender status, proclaiming in the affirmative that
what the big boys honor, so do we...n'est-ce pas?

What if a Nova Roman hails from, say, the Sudan?
Should we support that "Macronation's" definition of
gender? I employ a woman from the Sudan,
incidentally. She has worked for me for a year, and I
still cannot convince her to look me in the eye, or
speak to me without lowering her head, averting her
eyes, and treating me with way more reverence (as in
any reverence above no reverence) than is my due
simply because I am a man. Should we as the People
and Senate of Nova Roma support everything our
respective "macronations" support? Indeed, have we
not been drawn to Nova Roma because our larger
cultures and nations fail to offer us a place, a home?

It strikes me as a dangerous precedent to rely on any
"macronational" government's definition of legal
gender for any of our own operations. It smacks of
laziness unbecoming a Roman.

Thankyou,

Ias.Serenus Car. Peregrinus

--- bvm3@-------- wrote:
> M. Apollonius Formosanus omnibus Quiritibus S.P.D.
>
> I just have a few brief replies to things from
> Digest 1323 relating
> to the Gender/REnaming issue:
>
> ____________________________
> Octavius to Lucius Sergius:
>
> > Citizens should ask themselves why certain people
> in power
> have put the
> > Republic through so much turmoil and distortion
> simply to
> prevent one
> > single citizen from referring to himself by the
> Roman name he
> feels best
> > suits who he is.
>
> Let us also ask ourselves why certain people who
> wish they were
> in power have put the Republic through so much
> turmoil,
> endlessly bringing back the same tired old arguments
> and
> demands, making a major issue out of something that
> most of us
> simply don't care about.
>
> There are *two* groups who can be blamed for the
> "turmoil".
>
> RESPONDEO: There is, more precisely, one group which
>
> wishes to use the State power to force their sexual
> identifications
> on others against their will - and another group
> that seeing
> people treated that way wish to correct the
> situation. If it were
> not for the first group, the second group would have
> seen no
> necessity of acting. Limiting freedom with power is
> always
> provocative when a consensus on such use of power
> does not
> exist in the community. Authorities using *our*
> collective power
> should not provoke the citizens in this way - and if
> they insist on
> so doing, the reaction is also something that they
> are responsible
> for.
>
> > Governmental corruption and misconduct is like a
> fungal
> disease:
>
> Where is the corruption and misconduct here? Looks
> more like
> a legitimate difference of opinion.
>
> RESPONDEO: There is such a thing as a legitimate
> difference
> of opinion - but I am always suspicious when the
> conclusion
> drawn from that is "*Therefore* the magistrate can
> do whatever
> he wants to the citizen..." It seems to me that in
> such a situation
> the legitimate difference of opinion of the citizen
> is simply
> rendered powerless and the magistrate is permitted
> to use his
> power without check. What about the equally
> *legitimate"
> opinion of the citizen?
>
> __________________________________
> Pontifex Antonius Gryllus Graecus:
>
> While I consider all kind of people as my equals
> irrespective of
> sexual orientation, race, religion, etc, I'm really
> tired of these
> arguments about sex change within Nova Roma. Please
> all of
> you interested on the discussion of sexual
> orientation, etc.
> choose another site from among the available on the
> Web. A
> good one is http://www.shemale.com/
>
> All of you who want to get sexual partners or simply
> talk about
> your frustrations, there are a lot of dedicated IRC
> channels,
> mailing lists, Message Boards, etc. Violations of
> human rights,
> intolerance, etc. are also dealt with by
> macronational
> organisations and authorities.
>
> But please take this subject out from Nova Roma once
> and for
> all! We are here for Romanitas, not for Sexualitas.
>
> RESPONDEO: I would like to thank Graecus for his
> reference
> to the site, and say that I heartily approve of his
> tolerant and
> egalitarian attitude of respect for all.
>
> He does, however, seem to misunderstand why this
> discussion is taking place and taking place here in
> Nova Roma:
> namely, that as a 21st century micronation we have
> contemporary problems that have to be resolved
> publicly and
> through discussion. I have detained myself for
> discussing it to
> any significant degree for months, but now Consul
> Vedius has
> officially brought up the original - and highly
> controversial and
> problematic - edictum to be made into law by the
> People, and
> that surely makes this the most appropriate time
> imaginable for a
> thorough and searching discussion of the problems so
> that a bad
> law will be avoided and perhaps a decent and fair
> law enacted.
>
> ________________________
>
> Quintus Sertorius writes:
>
> But, back to gender identification, it is that part
> of the
> macronational recognition that we are speaking
> about. If your
> macronational country recognizes you as a male then
> in Nova
> Roma you too will be recognized as a male. If your
> macronational country recognizes you as a female
> then
> in Nova Roma you will be listed as female. I do not
> see a
> reason why Nova Roma should deviate from that
> status. If one
> is that determined to be recognized in Nova Roma as
> being
> another gender, but NOT willing to take the same
> steps in their
> macronational country, again I must ask why? Since
> again, I
> view Nova Roma exactly the same as any other
> macronational country.
>
> I have heard it stated on this list before how easy
> it is for one to
> copy their drivers license, and mail that photo copy
> in. We are
> talking less than 60 cents US, a buck in Canada. If
> one did that,
> I am sure the Censors would be HAPPY to change any
> status
> with those documents. If someone under 18 wants to
> be a
> citizen of Nova Roma, the parents of that applicant
> must
> snail mail a statement allowing the under aged
> applicant to
> participate. Therefore the precedent of mailing in
> paperwork to
> magistrates of Nova Roma is firmly established.
>
> RESPONDEO: The problem is not that simple. First of
> all, not
> every macronational jurisdiction makes it easy to
> get a correct
> sexual identity if one is in the wrong sexual
> minority group, i.e. a
> transsexual. And this is variable from jurisdiction
> to jurisdiction,
> which is unfair to *our* citizens living in backward
> areas
> macronationally..
>
> Or, it may be that one has established in an
> unofficial but
> *real* way a sexual identity and name, but has seen
> no necessity
> for officialising it in the macronation, which might
> be troublesome
> and would not add anything important to the real sex
> one has in
> the world. In Nova Roma the gender of one's name is
> especially
>
=== message truncated ===

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Subject:	[novaroma] Oath of Office for Tribune
From:	"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:58:03 -0500

12 Apr 2001

Salve All

I, Quintus Sertorius(Nathan Guiboche), do hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Quintus Sertorius(Nathan Guiboche), swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Quintus Sertorius(Nathan Guiboche), swear to uphold and defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Quintus Sertorius(Nathan Guiboche), swear to protect and defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Quintus Sertorius(Nathan Guiboche), further swear to fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the office of Tribune of the Plebs to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the position of Tribune of the Plebs and all the rights, privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.

Vale

Quintus Sertorius

Tribune
Queastor
Nova Roma
Propraetor
Canada Occidentalis

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Comentarii (was Re:Codex)
From:	Christer Edling <tjalens.h@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 01:06:04 +0200

>Salvete
>
>One idea that has been floating around for a while has been the idea of
>"handbooks" for the various magistracies. Something that would spell out in
>plain terms what each job entails, when and how certain things have to be
>done, etc. The rogatores already have such a thing, and I know the censores
>are working on one.
>
>I think this is a great idea, and would like to add that a running
>commentary from each magistrate in the office wouldn't be a bad idea. That
>way, we'd have some sort of "institutional memory" which we currently lack.
>That is, right now nobody except provincial governors is really held over
>from one year to another, and thus each new crop of magistrates has to
>re-invent the wheel. If, upon assuming office, they were able to consult the
>comentarii for that office (with the collective suggestions and wisdom of
>previous office-holders), I can't help but think that that would help.
>
>Any thoughts?
>
>Next year in the Forum!
>
>Vale,
>
>Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
>Consul

Salve Illustrus Senator and Consul Flavius Vedius Germanicus!

I think this is a very good idea. When I become a Quaetor I was lost. What
was my tasks? I think these Commentaries would start to solve this problem.
We would also get a grip of what changes as needed when writing them! Good!

Vale

Christer Edling
alias
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
SHAMALI SALUKIS
************************************************
CAMELOT ROLEPLAYING WORKSHOP
Robert Andersson & Christer Edling
************************************************
IF GAMES - If reality was different!
Markus Sundbom & Christer Edling
************************************************
MAIN E-MAIL ADDRESS: tjalens.h@--------
************************************************
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MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Oath of Office for Tribune
From:	Christer Edling <tjalens.h@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 01:30:52 +0200

Salve Tribunus Plebei, Quaestor and Propraetor Quintus Sertorius!

Congratulations for the election to the position of Tribune of the Plebs!

Vale

Christer Edling
alias
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
SHAMALI SALUKIS
************************************************
CAMELOT ROLEPLAYING WORKSHOP
Robert Andersson & Christer Edling
************************************************
IF GAMES - If reality was different!
Markus Sundbom & Christer Edling
************************************************
MAIN E-MAIL ADDRESS: tjalens.h@--------
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80

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Subject:	[novaroma] The Cursus Honorum Essay
From:	Publius Gramatinicus Albinus <syphax_venaliccii@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:40:23 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete!

Here is the Cursus Honorum essay I wrote. I figured I
would just send it to everyone, instead of one person
at a time. Tell me what you think, and please be
honest.

=====
pax et lux,
Publius Gramatinicus Albinus

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: A Boy Named Sue
From:	Iasonvs Serenvs Carolvs <iasonvs_serenvs@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:41:01 -0700 (PDT)

Salve Sicinius (et al)

I just happen to live in NH, and my mother just
happens to write grants for (charitable) non-profit
corporations. If you will phrase a specific question
regarding the NH RSAs as concerns nonprofit corps, I
will ask my mother (how juvenile that sounds) as she
is a professional in these matters. She also sits on
the boards of several corporations in these parts, and
knows just about everyone in the state...As for those
of you getting ideas about grants and fundraising, mi
madre is a devout catholic who is convinced her eldest
is destined to an eternity of damnation, and would
therefor not likely help raise capital for a "damned
pagan" organization....

Iasonvs Serenvs Carolvs Peregrinus
--- lsicinius@-------- wrote:
> --- In novaroma@--------, QFabiusMax@a... wrote:
> > Salvete,
> >
> > So if you want to change your name in Georgia, to
> a different
> gender, it
> > costs $25.00?
> >
> > That's cheap. When you change your name to that
> of a feminine
> persuasion,
> > we will change your official Latin name here in NR
> to reflect that.
> > There, problem solved. Can we get back to taxes?
> >
> > Valete,
> > Q. Fabius Maximus
>
> LOL,
>
> I would be far more likely to change my Macro
> national name to Lucius
> Sicinius Drusus. I'm quite comfortable with my
> gender.
>
> Frankly I bored of this whole sex name fiascio, and
> I'd welcomwe a
> vote in the comitia to (hopefuly) settle it once and
> for all. I've
> spoken my mind on this matter and I don't intend to
> discuss it any futher.
>
> I'm quite ready to continue the discussion on taxes,
> and as matter of
> fact I made TWO posts this morning and one of them
> concerned taxes.
> The sex post recived replies, my question regarding
> taxes did NOT.
>
> I'll repeat it now.
> Nova Roma is a Non Profit Corporation chartered
> under New Hampshire
> law. I have served on a NPC chartered under Georgia
> law and am aware
> of what I had to do in the way of making reports to
> members of the NPC
> regarding all revenues and expenses.
>
> I'm not familar with the laws in Hew Hampshire
> however. Since some
> citizens have expressed an unease at what may happen
> to thier tax
> money, I would like to know what will be required of
> Nova Roma as far
> as the Macro national laws of the State of New
> Hampshire are concerned.
>
> IF New Hampshire laws are strict and contain the
> criminal penalities
> the the Micro Nation of Nova Roma isn't able to
> enforce, then the
> citizens uneasy about providing taxes because of
> problems they
> observed in thier Macro Nation may be more willing
> to support the tax
> plan.
>
> As for myself I have allready stated my support. On
> Sunday Morning I
> made a $US 25.00 donation to Nova Roma to show my
> willingness to pay
> my taxes. I issused a challenge at that time asking
> that others show
> thier support in a similar matter sugesting a $US
> 12.00 donation. That
> Post only recived TWO replies, and that leaves me
> wondering just how
> much support for taxes there really is.
>
> Lucius Sicinius Drusus
>
>

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Subject:	[novaroma] Latinized form of Massachusetts??
From:	"C. Minucius Hadrianus" <shinjikun@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 19:51:33 -0400

Salvete!

I've been trying to track down a latinization of "Massachusetts" with little
luck. I just ran across something today that I think may be it, but I'd like
to run it by the experts! ^_^ I was looking at my grandfathers dipolma from
Harvard, which is in Latin, and I noticed at the top the following sentence:

" In Republica Massachusettensium omnibus ad quos hae litterae pervenerint
salutem."

So would Massachusettensium be the proper latinized form?? If anyone knows,
I'd really appreciate it!

Multas Gratias!

Valete!

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Legatus of Massachusetts
Pilus Prior Secunda Cohors
Legio VI Victrix

ICQ# 28924742

"Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum." - Vegetius

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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Re: A Boy Named Sue
From:	Iasonvs Serenvs Carolvs <iasonvs_serenvs@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:45:38 -0700 (PDT)

Just a quick note: NH is a very nonprofit friendly,
hardly draconian, libertarian, super privacy oriented
place, and perfect for registry reasons

--- Mark A Bird <mark_a_bird@--------> wrote:
> You totally miss the point, we can still have an
> incorporated entity, but it
> does not need to be US based/resident. Think
> outside of the box.
>
>
>
> Marcus Sentius Claudius
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lsicinius@--------
> [mailto:lsicinius@--------]
> Sent: Wednesday, 11 April 2001 10:52 Am
> To: novaroma@--------
> Subject: [novaroma] Re: A Boy Named Sue
>
>
> --- In novaroma@--------, Mark A Bird <mark_a_bird@r...>
> wrote:
> > Ave Lucius Sicinius Drusus
> >
> > Is NOVA resident in New Hampshire - isn't NOVA a
> world based
> organisation,
> > given that it has representation in the Senate
> from a number of
> Countries -
> > why New Hampshire ... have not we out grown this
> .... if the laws are so
> > draconian than perhaps we should consider
> registering it elsewhere -
> after
> > reading some of our laws and constitution, we have
> more than enough
> > competence in this organisation to draft and
> govern our own laws to
> ensure
> > good corporate governance.
> >
> > Should not we register it elsewhere ??? We should
> not be bothered
> by macro
> > laws of some US State.
> >
> > Marcus Sentius Claudius
> >
> >
>
> Salvete,
> Leagal incorparation provides certain protections
> for Nova Roma's
> Citizens. As an example if a legal enity called Nova
> Roma didn't exist
> then the person who filed for the domain
> "www.novaroma.org" would own
> it as his personal properity and could sell it at
> any time he wished
> to do so. Since the domain has been transfered to
> Nova Roma inc. this
> can't be done. The same goes for the trademark on
> the flag.
>
> On the matter of taxes I certainly would NOT be
> willing to pay tax
> money to a private indiviual. Without the legal
> structure of a NPC
> that is what you would be doing, and that indiviual
> could do as he
> pleased with the money.
>
> At some future date Consul Nemo may decide to
> convert the Nova Roman
> treasury into a new den for his house. If Nova Roma
> is incorparated we
> would have the option of forcing Nemo to face Macro
> National Law for
> these actions. Under Nova Roman law the most we
> could do is banish him
> for life, and frankly I don't think Nemo would care.
>
> As to the location where Nova Roma is incorprated,
> That is a matter of
> little concern to me, as long as the laws regarding
> NPCs are strict
> and provide protection for the members (citizens) of
> the corparation.
>
> Nova Roma's articles of incorpration are at
> http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/articles.html
>
> Valete
> Lucius Sicinius Drusus
>
>
>
>
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> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
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Subject:	[novaroma] Congratulations to our new Tribune of the Plebs!
From:	"Oppius Flaccus Severus" <oppiusflaccus@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:45:06 -0700

Salvete Quinte Sertori et Quiritibus;

CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR ELECTION QUINTUS!!!

Also, gratias multas to Lucius Pompeius for stepping
forward in the service of Nova Roma and running
such a good campaign. The Plebs were truly blessed
to have such fine candidates running for the office.

Bene valete,
-Oppius

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Politics - what else
From:	Iasonvs Serenvs Carolvs <iasonvs_serenvs@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:50:24 -0700 (PDT)

Greetings Gnaeus,

Your arguments were well stated, erudite and consisent
with the weight of understanding about Roma. I'll
look forward to your further words...

Iasonvs Serenvs

--- Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> wrote:
> Salvete, romani quirites; et salve, Fabie Maxime.
>
> --- QFabiusMax@-------- escribió: > In a message
> dated
> 4/10/2001 2:07:27 PM Pacific
> > Daylight Time,
> > salixastur@-------- writes:
> >
> > < > of the
> > Gracchi brothers (133-123 BCE), where the
> strongest
> > reformist movement of the Republic was defeated.
> > Basically, the arguments behind the dispute were
> > the
> > ones you have just mentioned. And the reform was
> > defeated not by strength, ideas or oratory. It
> was
> > a
> > short-sightedness installed in the Roman people
> > what
> > defeated the reform.
> > >>
> > Salvete
> > Good point. However the reform threatened the
> > landed aristocracy, and that
> > is why the reaction was so extreme. Anytime you
> > screw with a man's livelihood
> > you get a reaction. Besides if we believe
> > Ploutarkhos, the Gracchi were
> > utilizing a populist movement to gain power, since
> > they had been denied it
> > through other means. They are portrayed as
> corrupt
> > as any other Roman
> > magistrate of the period.
> >
>
> Probably you're right. I was not expressing my
> opinion
> on the Gracchi brothers (besides, a very prestigious
> Italian historian, Indro Montanelli, would not agree
> with Plutarcus). I was expressing my opinion on some
> of the reforms they wanted to install. When they
> reached the Tribunate, they tried to pass three main
> issues:
>
> 1.- The famous landbill you refer to (a law that
> limited the area of land a single citizen could
> own).
> This alienated the patrician class from which the
> Gracchi came from.
>
> 2.- A law for the expansion of the Senate. They
> wanted
> to include in the Senate new "elected" senators,
> which
> would have been elected by the Comitia Tributa and
> would have stayed just one year in charge. This
> attempt to "democratize" the Senate earned them the
> hate of both the Senatorial and Equestre class, who
> held the Senate as their turf.
>
> 3.- A law which awarded citizenship to all the
> inhabitants of Latium. This granted them the
> indifference of the common Roman citizen, eager to
> keep their privileges as Roman citizens to
> themselves.
>
> Most historians agree (a posteriori) that these laws
> would have meant a continuation of the "democratic"
> struggle in Rome; they led the direction towards the
> creation of a "modern" state. Alas, after the murder
> of the Gracchi, it was social turmoil and civil war
> that ensued, ending in the solidification of the
> statu
> quo that the Principate meant (and, as chaos theory
> teaches us today, the intention to mantain the statu
> quo in a complex system leads to the destruction of
> that system, both by inner and outer forces).
>
> > The only thing that would invoke a huge Senate
> > response equal to that against
> > the Gracchi, IMO, would be an attack against the
> > Religio which we have sworn
> > to protect.
> >
>
> And I would stand with the Senate in that struggle,
> for I believe that the Religio Romana is not only
> basic to the idea of Rome herself, but it also is a
> faith worth both protection and respect.
>
>
> =====
> Bene Valete!
> Gnaeus Salix Astur.
> Protocivis romanus.
>
>
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Subject:	[novaroma] TRIBUNES STATEMENT
From:	"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 18:31:48 -0500

14 Apr 2001
TRIBUNES STATEMENT

Salve All

Good day citizens of Nova Roma, I am honored to stand before you all this day as your elected Tribune. I would like to thank my opponent for a well-fought race, and wish him nothing but the best in his continued activities within Nova Roma. I would like to thank all those that voted in this election, regardless of whom they voted for. What is important is that the election process has been shown once more to be quite capable of ensuring the perpetuation of our institutions..

I stated that I plan to stand as closely by our traditional institutions as is possible, now that you have shown that you agree with me, I will follow that approach in all my decisions. We must keep constant watch for ideas that for one reason or another we are not ready for yet. It has become apparent that our micro-nation is still very much in the developmental stage, and any haste in our decision process can only hurt our long-term goals.

In the course of this election campaign a number of issues were debated, two of them being Taxes, and the infamous Gender issue. I totally agree that Taxes should have been the priority of the two issues, but Taxation is not a sexy enough topic for Nova Romans, so the gender issue continues to muddy our waters. We must discipline ourselves to realize when an issue has been talked to death, as was the case here. But we still see citizens running out to beat that dead horse. All the while, the long-term issue of Taxation remains not nearly as popular. This indicates a need to help keep the public agenda in focus. This is what I will try to do while in office.

Another Tradition of Old Rome was declared during this election, and that was the existence of a sort of informal Patron/Client relationship in Nova Roma. I would like to at this time announce that I too, am a client of our Good Censor Sulla, and have enjoyed this relationship for a little while now. I want to assure all Nova Roma that this is not the strict relationship that existed in Old Roma, but what has happened is we have taken a tradition from Old Roma and adapted it to work in our New Rome. Gone are the negative aspects of the old relationship, and what remains is something that I am proud to be a part of. My Patron, Sulla, has agreed to help me with my legal and political development, for which I am very grateful, and the fruits of this relationship are now showing through for me. My only fear is that I would not be able to return what has been given me by my Patron, his reply to my concern was to ask me to help others when the time came! It is these selfless acts that made me want to enter into this relationship in the first place. There are many sides to our Censor Sulla that very few get to see, and because of this he is sometimes misunderstood. This is something that happens frequently in our Republic, mainly due to our main medium of communication. We must always be on our guard for this, and remember all of us are here for one thing-our love of Roma. There will be those that will try to make this relationship look conspiratorial or opportunistic. To those people, I can only say that the mind is like a parachute and only functions while it is open. So please look past the negative points and rest assured that we have discarded that which was bad and embraced that which was good of this relationship. This is the philosophy I intend to live by, especially while in Office, a careful consideration of the pros and cons of Roma's traditions before any policy adoption. But I still feel that we have enough to revive from Old Roma that we should be patient with the adoption of post-Roman ideas. Once again I want to assure the citizens that I am not a puppet of anyone, but I have acknowledged that I have much to learn and that I wanted to learn from the best. Therefore I asked the most active citizen I could see to help me with my Political career in Nova Roma and to my pleasured surprise I was accepted.

In concluding, I plan to work very closely with my fellow Tribune as together we can realize the full potential of the Office of Tribune. I have not contacted the other Tribune during the election other then to ask that he encourage his Gens to vote. This is a situation that will change! I want to once again tell all that I plan to be a reconstructionalist for our noble traditions. I plan to stand by that which will prove workable in our Micro-nation, and stand up to that which will not! I plan to listen to the people and act in their best interests. I plan to move our Republic forward not back. Your trust in me will not be forsaken, and I will guarantee that the citizens of Nova Roma will find they have made a damn good choice in this election! Thank you.

Vale

Quintus Sertorius

Tribune

Queastor
Nova Roma
Propraetor
Canada Occidentalis

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