Forum Romanum


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] A Boy Named Sue
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 20:19:51 EDT

Salve Marce Octavi

I didn't mean for this to go unanswered - I have been away a lot (and the
mailbox is overflowing again).

On 4/10/01 9:37 AM Marcus Octavius Germanicus (haase@--------) wrote:

>Salve Luci Sergi,
>
>> Citizens should ask themselves why certain people in power have put the
>> Republic through so much turmoil and distortion simply to prevent one
>> single citizen from referring to himself by the Roman name he feels best
>> suits who he is.
>
>Let us also ask ourselves why certain people who wish they were
>in power have put the Republic through so much turmoil, endlessly
>bringing back the same tired old arguments and demands, making a major
>issue out of something that most of us simply don't care about.
>
>There are *two* groups who can be blamed for the "turmoil".
I'm not certain to whom you are referring here. The Name-Change Edict was
brought back up by the Consul F. Vedius, and he *is* in power. I thought
it was brought up for debate and an early vote in the Comitia Centuriata
as is only proper. Then, whatever the outcome, those of us who are
law-abiding Romans will live with it, and those who are not law-abiding
Romans will perhaps give it up, or go elsewhere, or be ruled out of order
and sanctioned by the authorities.
>
>> Governmental corruption and misconduct is like a fungal disease:
>
>Where is the corruption and misconduct here? Looks more like a
>legitimate difference of opinion.
Perhaps it is. My opinion is that this originated to squelch the
legitimate request of one specific citizen, and does not actually
legitimately address the situation of either that citizen nor of any
other citizen nor of the Republic. If that is, indeed, what this
represents, then I think you must agree that such a misuse of law-making
authority would represent an impropriety and a corruption of the law.

But let all of us who feel one way or the other about it vote on it and
be done with it!

Salve,

L. Sergius Australicus Obst.
>
>Vale, Octavius.
>
>
>--
>M. Octavius Germanicus
>Propraetor, Lacus Magni
>Curator Araneum et Senator
>

certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.

(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Latinized form of Massachusetts??
From:	margali <margali@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 20:59:38 -0400

Well, I don't know how appropriate it is to romanize an indian
word. When does it move from honoring something to being
ridiculous? I don't think Massachusettensium is particularly
pleasant sounding. How about the latin form of whatever
Massachusetts is supposed to mean?

-Margali
Hyapatia Asinia
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Quote Starts Here:
I've been trying to track down a latinization of "Massachusetts"
with little
luck.

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Politics - what else
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Gnaeus=20Salix=20Astur?= <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 02:40:20 +0200 (CEST)

Salve, Serene.

Thank you for your kind words. I needed them. It is sometimes
discouraging to write such a long essay and see it pass without hardly
any comment amongst various rattlings about a certain edictum.

I needed some encouragement to feed my ego :-).

Gnaeus Salix Astur, protocivis romanus.

--- Iasonvs Serenvs Carolvs <iasonvs_serenvs@--------> escribió: >
Greetings Gnaeus,
>
> Your arguments were well stated, erudite and consisent
> with the weight of understanding about Roma. I'll
> look forward to your further words...
>
>
> Iasonvs Serenvs
>
>
>
>
> --- Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> wrote:
> > Salvete, romani quirites; et salve, Fabie Maxime.
> >
> > --- QFabiusMax@-------- escribió: > In a message
> > dated
> > 4/10/2001 2:07:27 PM Pacific
> > > Daylight Time,
> > > salixastur@-------- writes:
> > >
> > > << I would suggest to concentrate on the tribunate
> > > of the
> > > Gracchi brothers (133-123 BCE), where the
> > strongest
> > > reformist movement of the Republic was defeated.
> > > Basically, the arguments behind the dispute were
> > > the
> > > ones you have just mentioned. And the reform was
> > > defeated not by strength, ideas or oratory. It
> > was
> > > a
> > > short-sightedness installed in the Roman people
> > > what
> > > defeated the reform.
> > > >>
> > > Salvete
> > > Good point. However the reform threatened the
> > > landed aristocracy, and that
> > > is why the reaction was so extreme. Anytime you
> > > screw with a man's livelihood
> > > you get a reaction. Besides if we believe
> > > Ploutarkhos, the Gracchi were
> > > utilizing a populist movement to gain power, since
> > > they had been denied it
> > > through other means. They are portrayed as
> > corrupt
> > > as any other Roman
> > > magistrate of the period.
> > >
> >
> > Probably you're right. I was not expressing my
> > opinion
> > on the Gracchi brothers (besides, a very prestigious
> > Italian historian, Indro Montanelli, would not agree
> > with Plutarcus). I was expressing my opinion on some
> > of the reforms they wanted to install. When they
> > reached the Tribunate, they tried to pass three main
> > issues:
> >
> > 1.- The famous landbill you refer to (a law that
> > limited the area of land a single citizen could
> > own).
> > This alienated the patrician class from which the
> > Gracchi came from.
> >
> > 2.- A law for the expansion of the Senate. They
> > wanted
> > to include in the Senate new "elected" senators,
> > which
> > would have been elected by the Comitia Tributa and
> > would have stayed just one year in charge. This
> > attempt to "democratize" the Senate earned them the
> > hate of both the Senatorial and Equestre class, who
> > held the Senate as their turf.
> >
> > 3.- A law which awarded citizenship to all the
> > inhabitants of Latium. This granted them the
> > indifference of the common Roman citizen, eager to
> > keep their privileges as Roman citizens to
> > themselves.
> >
> > Most historians agree (a posteriori) that these laws
> > would have meant a continuation of the "democratic"
> > struggle in Rome; they led the direction towards the
> > creation of a "modern" state. Alas, after the murder
> > of the Gracchi, it was social turmoil and civil war
> > that ensued, ending in the solidification of the
> > statu
> > quo that the Principate meant (and, as chaos theory
> > teaches us today, the intention to mantain the statu
> > quo in a complex system leads to the destruction of
> > that system, both by inner and outer forces).
> >
> > > The only thing that would invoke a huge Senate
> > > response equal to that against
> > > the Gracchi, IMO, would be an attack against the
> > > Religio which we have sworn
> > > to protect.
> > >
> >
> > And I would stand with the Senate in that struggle,
> > for I believe that the Religio Romana is not only
> > basic to the idea of Rome herself, but it also is a
> > faith worth both protection and respect.
> >
> >
> > =====
> > Bene Valete!
> > Gnaeus Salix Astur.
> > Protocivis romanus.
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________________________
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> >
>
>
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>

=====
Bene Valete!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Protocivis romanus.

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Latinized form of Massachusetts??
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Gnaeus=20Salix=20Astur?= <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 02:46:31 +0200 (CEST)

Salve, Minuci Hadriane.

--- "C. Minucius Hadrianus" <shinjikun@--------> escribió: >
Salvete!
>
> I've been trying to track down a latinization of "Massachusetts" with
> little
> luck. I just ran across something today that I think may be it, but
> I'd like
> to run it by the experts! ^_^ I was looking at my grandfathers
> dipolma from
> Harvard, which is in Latin, and I noticed at the top the following
> sentence:
>
> " In Republica Massachusettensium omnibus ad quos hae litterae
> pervenerint
> salutem."
>
> So would Massachusettensium be the proper latinized form?? If anyone
> knows,
> I'd really appreciate it!
>
> Multas Gratias!
>
> Valete!
>
>
> C. Minucius Hadrianus
> Legatus of Massachusetts
> Pilus Prior Secunda Cohors
> Legio VI Victrix

I'm sorry, Minicius, but I think "Republica Massachusettensium" means
"the Republic of the People of Massachussetts".
"Massachussettensium" is the genitive plural of "Massachussettensis",
an inhabitant of Massachussetts.

According to Latin rules, the name of the place would be
"Massachussettis", or perhaps "Massachussets".

=====
Bene Valete!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Protocivis romanus.

_______________________________________________________________
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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] The Cursus Honorum Essay
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 21:08:42 -0400

Salvete

Mighty short essay... ;-)

I'd love to see the real thing, though. Please give it another shot!

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
ICQ: 106199729
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Publius Gramatinicus Albinus [mailto:syphax_venaliccii@--------]
> Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 7:40 PM
> To: novaroma@--------
> Subject: [novaroma] The Cursus Honorum Essay
>
>
> Salvete!
>
> Here is the Cursus Honorum essay I wrote. I figured I
> would just send it to everyone, instead of one person
> at a time. Tell me what you think, and please be
> honest.
>
>
>
>
>
> =====
> pax et lux,
> Publius Gramatinicus Albinus
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Latinized form of Massachusetts??
From:	lsicinius@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 01:17:42 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, margali <margali@9...> wrote:
> Well, I don't know how appropriate it is to romanize an indian
> word. When does it move from honoring something to being
> ridiculous? I don't think Massachusettensium is particularly
> pleasant sounding. How about the latin form of whatever
> Massachusetts is supposed to mean?
>
> -Margali
> Hyapatia Asinia
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> The Quote Starts Here:
> I've been trying to track down a latinization of "Massachusetts"
> with little
> luck.

Salvete,

Massachusetts -From Indian tribe named after "large hill place"
identified by Capt. John Smith as being near Milton, Mass.

For the Origins of other US State names see
http://nativenet.uthscsa.edu/archive/nl/9408/0139.html

Valte
Lucius Sicinius Drusus

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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Results of Voting in the Comitia Plebis Tributa
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 21:17:19 -0400

Salvete

Congratulations, Quintus Sertorius. I am sure you'll make a splendid
Tribune!

Next year in the Forum!

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
ICQ: 106199729
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fortunatus [mailto:labienus@--------]
> Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 7:01 PM
> To: novaromaannounce@--------;
> comitiaplebistributa@--------
> Cc: novaroma@--------
> Subject: [novaroma] Results of Voting in the Comitia Plebis Tributa
>
>
> Tribunus Plebis T Labienus Fortunatus Quiritibus SPD
>
> Voting has ended in the Concilium Plebis, and the results have been
> tallied. Seventy-two cives voted, in thirty-one of a possible
> thirty-five tribes.
>
> In the race for tribunus plebis, Quintus Sertorius carried fourteen
> tribes and Lucius Pompeius Octavianus carried twelve. Therefore, Q
> Sertorius is duly elected. Congratulations, Quinte Sertori. I look
> forward to working with you. Thank you, Luci Pompei, for making the
> attempt. May you have better luck next time.
>
> All thirty-one tribes supported Lex Labiena de Ratione Comitiorum Plebis
> Tributorum. It is therefore duly enacted as law, and I ask Curator
> Octavius to place it with the other leges in the online Tabularium.
>
> And finally, multas gratias to the seventy-two plebeians who voted. The
> Respublica requires participation if it is to work.
>
> Valete
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Results of Voting in the Comitia Plebis Tributa
From:	"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 20:12:36 -0500

Thank you very much Consul, it means much coming from you sir.

QS

----- Original Message -----
From: "Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 8:17 PM
Subject: RE: [novaroma] Results of Voting in the Comitia Plebis Tributa

> Salvete
>
> Congratulations, Quintus Sertorius. I am sure you'll make a splendid
> Tribune!
>
> Next year in the Forum!
>
> Vale,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> Consul
>
> email: germanicus@--------
> AIM: Flavius Vedius
> ICQ: 106199729
> www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Fortunatus [mailto:labienus@--------]
> > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 7:01 PM
> > To: novaromaannounce@--------;
> > comitiaplebistributa@--------
> > Cc: novaroma@--------
> > Subject: [novaroma] Results of Voting in the Comitia Plebis Tributa
> >
> >
> > Tribunus Plebis T Labienus Fortunatus Quiritibus SPD
> >
> > Voting has ended in the Concilium Plebis, and the results have been
> > tallied. Seventy-two cives voted, in thirty-one of a possible
> > thirty-five tribes.
> >
> > In the race for tribunus plebis, Quintus Sertorius carried fourteen
> > tribes and Lucius Pompeius Octavianus carried twelve. Therefore, Q
> > Sertorius is duly elected. Congratulations, Quinte Sertori. I look
> > forward to working with you. Thank you, Luci Pompei, for making the
> > attempt. May you have better luck next time.
> >
> > All thirty-one tribes supported Lex Labiena de Ratione Comitiorum Plebis
> > Tributorum. It is therefore duly enacted as law, and I ask Curator
> > Octavius to place it with the other leges in the online Tabularium.
> >
> > And finally, multas gratias to the seventy-two plebeians who voted. The
> > Respublica requires participation if it is to work.
> >
> > Valete
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Latinized form of Massachusetts??
From:	"C. Minucius Hadrianus" <shinjikun@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 22:00:26 -0400

Salve Salix Astur,

Thanks! I suppose I should have looked at it a bit more closely before
posting! Sadly, my Latin is limited to vague and shadowy remembrances from
High School (11 years ago...), but it's coming back, slowly & painfully ~_^
The reason I was curious, is that Nova Britannia seems to be the only
Provincia without Latin (or Latinized) Regio names. In retrospect it seems
like a pretty silly thing to worry about =) As Hyapatia Asinia pointed out
in her reply - Native American names don't particularly lend them selves to
Latinization... (Connecticutus?) In any case, thanks for indulging me!

Vale!

C. Minucius Hadrianus

----Original Message-----
From: Gnaeus Salix Astur [mailto:salixastur@--------]
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 8:47 PM
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Latinized form of Massachusetts??

Salve, Minuci Hadriane.

--- "C. Minucius Hadrianus" <shinjikun@--------> escribió: >
Salvete!
>
> I've been trying to track down a latinization of "Massachusetts" with
> little
> luck. I just ran across something today that I think may be it, but
> I'd like
> to run it by the experts! ^_^ I was looking at my grandfathers
> dipolma from
> Harvard, which is in Latin, and I noticed at the top the following
> sentence:
>
> " In Republica Massachusettensium omnibus ad quos hae litterae
> pervenerint
> salutem."
>
> So would Massachusettensium be the proper latinized form?? If anyone
> knows,
> I'd really appreciate it!
>
> Multas Gratias!
>
> Valete!
>
>
> C. Minucius Hadrianus
> Legatus of Massachusetts
> Pilus Prior Secunda Cohors
> Legio VI Victrix

I'm sorry, Minicius, but I think "Republica Massachusettensium" means
"the Republic of the People of Massachussetts".
"Massachussettensium" is the genitive plural of "Massachussettensis",
an inhabitant of Massachussetts.

According to Latin rules, the name of the place would be
"Massachussettis", or perhaps "Massachussets".

=====
Bene Valete!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Protocivis romanus.

_______________________________________________________________
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Subject:	[novaroma] Congratulations Quinte!!!
From:	octavianuslucius@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 02:09:15 -0000

Salve optime amice Quinte
Congratulations for your success my good opponent and friend Quinte!
Habe fortunam bonam!!!
Sincerely
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus

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Subject:	[novaroma] America Austrorientalis Provincia
From:	lsicinius@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 02:11:16 -0000

Salvete,

Since my Provincia currently lacks a Propraetor, I've taken the
liberty of starting a Egroups mail list for America Austrorientalis
Provincia.

When a sutable canidate is found, I'll turn this group over to the new
Propraetor, and they will at least be able to start out with this
resource in place.

America Austrorientalis currently has 60 citizens but the group only
has 5 members. If you reside in America Austrorientalis Provincia
please consider signing up for this group. If you are a Pater/Mater
Familis with Gens members who reside in the Austrorientalis Provincia,
then pass this request on the members of your Gens who live here.

With your help we can make America Austrorientalis a great province to
live in.

Valete
Lucius Sicinius Drusus

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Subject:	[novaroma] Nova Roma Coins ARE IN!
From:	cassius622@--------
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 22:17:29 EDT

Salvete Omnes,

It is my great pleasure to announce that the Nova Roma coins have arrived,
and that they are *wonderful*! They are struck in bronze and are the size of
a US half dollar. An image of a scanned coin may be seen at:

<A HREF="http://www.goldenfuture.net/mediatlantica/coin.jpg">http://www.goldenfuture.net/mediatlantica/coin.jpg </A>

The new coins are Sestertius coins, (actually Sestertius Signum, or "token
sestertius" for legal purposes) and will be usable trade tokens for Nova
Roma. They will be available for 50 cents US, and will be guaranteed for that
amount to make them a workable means of exchange at events, etc!

The Sestertius coins are a huge step forward for Nova Roma. Not only are they
a great promotion and sign of our commitment, they are also a unique effort
among Micronations as far as I am aware. Other sovereignty projects have
minted coinage as "commemoratives" only, knowing fully well that there would
be no means to use them in trade. Nova Roma, with it's commitment to building
local Provinciae around the world, will be able to use it's coinage. No
"admission tickets" or "food tickets" at events for us! :)

Roman Days in Maryland this coming June will be the first "economic" test for
the NR coins. The coins will be available for sale at the Nova Roma tent.
Nova Roma will also of course be accepting the coins at their "standard
value" in trade for items, as will be a few, if not all of the other vendors
at the event. It shouldn't take long before it becomes a working system in
all the Provincia, giving a real feeling of Roman authenticity at public
events.

The Sestertii coins will be available on the NR website this next week. All
that's lacking at this point is the cost of shipping various quantities of
coins. My guess is that they'll be sold in quantities of four and up.
Sestertii coins will also be available for "in person" sales through all
Provincia, to help avoid international postage problems, but that will of
course take a few weeks to arrange. More details will be coming soon!

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Consul

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Latinized form of Massachusetts??
From:	lsicinius@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 02:20:20 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "C. Minucius Hadrianus" <shinjikun@s...> wrote:
>
> Salve Salix Astur,
>
> Thanks! I suppose I should have looked at it a bit more closely before
> posting! Sadly, my Latin is limited to vague and shadowy
remembrances from
> High School (11 years ago...), but it's coming back, slowly &
painfully ~_^
> The reason I was curious, is that Nova Britannia seems to be the only
> Provincia without Latin (or Latinized) Regio names. In retrospect it
seems
> like a pretty silly thing to worry about =) As Hyapatia Asinia
pointed out
> in her reply - Native American names don't particularly lend them
selves to
> Latinization... (Connecticutus?) In any case, thanks for indulging me!
>
> Vale!
>
> C. Minucius Hadrianus
>
>

Vale,

Latinization may not work, but translation of the meaning of the
native American word can work. Since Massachusetts means "large hill
place" I think that Mons Magna (Great Hill) might be a suitable
translation, though my Latin is very bad.

I have posted a request on the Latinitas list for help in translating
all the US State names. I think this would be a valuable resourse for
citizens residing in the US Provinciae and for Propraetors who wish to
set up Regios in these Provinciae.

Salve,
Lucius Sicinius Drusus

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Congratulations Quinte!!!
From:	"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 21:11:51 -0500

Thank you very much Lucius my friend, and I look forward to working with you
in the future. Do not forget it was a very close contest, and it ids an
honor to have such an effective opponent!

QS

----- Original Message -----
From: <octavianuslucius@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 9:09 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Congratulations Quinte!!!

> Salve optime amice Quinte
> Congratulations for your success my good opponent and friend Quinte!
> Habe fortunam bonam!!!
> Sincerely
> Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Nova Roma Coins ARE IN!
From:	Piparskeggr Ullarsson <catamount_grange@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 21:47:41 -0500

Ave Cassius,

cassius622@-------- wrote:
>
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> It is my great pleasure to announce that the Nova Roma coins have arrived,(excision)
>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
> Consul
>

I'll want 50 of them. When you have the shipping figured out let me know and I'll cut the Republic
a check.

--
===========================================
In Amicus sub Fidelis, Benedicte Omnes!
- Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
Cives, Paterfamilias Gens Ulleria
Quæstor, Legate, Dominus Sodalis

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Subject:	[novaroma] Nova Roma Coins are IN!!
From:	"Pompeia Cornelia" <scriba_forum@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 02:58:05 -0000

Salvete Consul Cassius et Populus!!

This is exciting news, and I truly love the presentation of the coins! I am
working on going to Roman Days, but alas, I still do not know for sure if I
will be attending, to purchase these coins in person.

I am encouraged that they will soon be available for mail order purchase. I
would like to purchase some to distribute at a provincial gathering planned
for this August....and of course, a few for keepsakes!

Bene valete
Pompeia Cornelia Strabo
Propraetrix pro temp
Canada Orientalis

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Subject:	[novaroma] Nova Roma Coins are IN!!
From:	"Pompeia Cornelia" <scriba_forum@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 02:58:11 -0000


Subject:	[novaroma] Nova Roma Coins are IN!!
From:	"Pompeia Cornelia" <scriba_forum@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 02:58:16 -0000


Subject:	[novaroma] Nova Roma Coins are IN!!
From:	"Pompeia Cornelia" <scriba_forum@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 02:59:10 -0000


Subject:	[novaroma] Problems for a new citizen
From:	Erich Reto Iseli <erich.iseli@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 04:44:34 +0200

SALVETE OMNES,

Nomen meus Gaius Noviodunus Ferriculus est.

Today, I had the privilege to be accepted as a citizen of Nova Roma.
However, I still feel like a barbarus. There are some details I don't
understand.

- Why is there no provincia Helvetia?
- I wrote a description about my nomen gentis, however this doesn't
appear in the album gentium. why? can this still be added now?
- same for the gods
- how can I change my personal information
- why did it take so long from the day of my registration until
today? (2-3 weeks)

Gratias ago those who can enlighten my spiritus rudis...

G NOVIODVNVS FERRICVLVS S.D.

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Subject:	[novaroma] I AM Excited.......
From:	trog99@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 03:07:58 -0000

......about the new coins, but not THAT excited!!

Sorry about the multiple posts.

Some cyber gremlin is having fun with me tonight!! :)

Vale,
Po

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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Problems for a new citizen
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 23:27:55 -0400

Salvete

First of all, welcome! First of all, please feel free to check out
http://www.goldenfuture.net/mediatlantica/whatnow for a couple of web pages
that might make the task of getting to know Nova Roma a little easier...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Erich Reto Iseli [mailto:erich.iseli@--------]
> Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 10:45 PM
>
> - Why is there no provincia Helvetia?

Short answer-- because there hasn't been a need to have one yet. If there
are enough citizens in a given place, and (usually quite helpful) someone
interested in organizing the province and serving as governor, the Senate
will create the province.

> - I wrote a description about my nomen gentis, however this doesn't
> appear in the album gentium. why? can this still be added now?

There really isn't any provision for the Album Gentium to include such
miscellaneous notes. If you wish, though, you could create a gens web site,
which could absolutely be linked from the album gentium (just email the
censors at censors@-------- if you get such a page set up).

> - same for the gods

Email censors@-------- They can update your entry in the album gentium
to include the patron deities of your gens. If you want to include more
information, your best bet is as I mentioned before; set up a gens web site
and include the information there.

> - how can I change my personal information

Just send an email to the censors (censors@--------).

> - why did it take so long from the day of my registration until
> today? (2-3 weeks)

The Censors are prevented from processing citizenship applications while
elections are in progress. First the Comitia Populi was having a vote, and
then the Comitia Plebis started one, so all applications were on hold for a
while. In general, though, if an application is delayed, it's because the
Censors are waiting to get permission from the paterfamilias for the new
citizen to join an already-existing gens.

Hope that helps; if you have any other questions, don't hesitate to ask!

Next year in the Forum!

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
ICQ: 106199729
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org

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Subject:	[novaroma] Maximo gaudio te accipio M. Furi Piger Curente Sp./Eng.
From:	octavianuslucius@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 03:31:12 -0000

Spanish /Español
Propraetor provincialis Lucius Pompeius Octavianus Marco Furio Piger
Cruento S.P.D.

Como propraetor provincial Argentina quiero darte la más calida
bienvenida a Nova Roma y a nuestra provincia Argentina Marce Furi
Piger Cruente. Seguramente serás un ciudadano muy activo y aportarás
mucho tanto a Nova Roma como a su provincia Argentina.

Habe fortunam bonam

English / Inglés

Propraetor provincialis Lucius Pompeius Octavianus Marco Furio Piger
Cruento S.P.D.
As propraetor of provincia Argentina I wish to give you the most warm
welcome to Nova Roma and the provincia Argentina Marce Furi Piger
Cruente. I am sure you will be a very active citizen and will
contribute a lot to both Nova Roma and its province Argentina.

Habe fortunam bonam

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Problems for a new citizen
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 20:34:21 -0700

Ave,

My comments below:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Erich Reto Iseli" <erich.iseli@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 7:44 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Problems for a new citizen

> SALVETE OMNES,
>
> Nomen meus Gaius Noviodunus Ferriculus est.
>
> Today, I had the privilege to be accepted as a citizen of Nova Roma.
> However, I still feel like a barbarus. There are some details I don't
> understand.
>
> - Why is there no provincia Helvetia?

Where would Helvetia be....if you go to the Nova Roma Provinca page...you
can see if the area you reside in is already incorporated into a province.

> - I wrote a description about my nomen gentis, however this doesn't
> appear in the album gentium. why? can this still be added now?

Descriptions do not appear. However you should have an entry on the Album
Gentium regarding your Gens, how many members and the Patron Dieties.

> - same for the gods

If you entered the Gods on your application, and if you are the
Paterfamilias they will be listed. If you are not the Paterfamilias, then
they will not be listed.

> - how can I change my personal information

You contact the Censors @ censors@--------

> - why did it take so long from the day of my registration until
> today? (2-3 weeks)

Because that is the standard time frame. Especially if you are joining an
existing Gentes....we cannot approve applications til we get their
approval....and also there were elections going on....we cannot approve
applications while elections are in progress. Which is why my colleague
today approved over 20 citizenship applications.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor

> Gratias ago those who can enlighten my spiritus rudis...
>
> G NOVIODVNVS FERRICVLVS S.D.
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: A Boy Named Sue
From:	lsicinius@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 03:34:33 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, Iasonvs Serenvs Carolvs <iasonvs_serenvs@-------->
wrote:
> Salve Sicinius (et al)
>
> I just happen to live in NH, and my mother just
> happens to write grants for (charitable) non-profit
> corporations. If you will phrase a specific question
> regarding the NH RSAs as concerns nonprofit corps, I
> will ask my mother (how juvenile that sounds) as she
> is a professional in these matters. She also sits on
> the boards of several corporations in these parts, and
> knows just about everyone in the state...As for those
> of you getting ideas about grants and fundraising, mi
> madre is a devout catholic who is convinced her eldest
> is destined to an eternity of damnation, and would
> therefor not likely help raise capital for a "damned
> pagan" organization....
>
>
> Iasonvs Serenvs Carolvs Peregrinus

Salve Iasonvs Serenvs,

First I thank you for your offer.

I have several Questions.

1. What are the requirements for financial reports from the board
(Senate) to the members (citizens)? Quarterly, Anually?

2. Do the members have the right to challenge a report and request an
outside audit? If so under what conditions?

3. If funds spent for personal gain, are there any criminal penalities
or is it limited to a civil matter?

Also I wish to make it plain, I'm NOT asking these questions because I
have any reason to suspect that any offical of Nova Roma is disnonest.
I am asking because some citizens are uneasy about taxiation because
of problems they have observed in thier Macro Nation, and I'm hoping
that the answers to these questions will set thier minds at ease and
make it easier for Nova Roma to implement the tax system she needs.

Vale
Lucius Sicinius Drusus

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Nova Roma Coins ARE IN!
From:	octavianuslucius@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 03:37:55 -0000

L. Pompeius Octavianus Consuli Cassio Juliano S.P.D.
The coins are extremely beautiful!!!!!!!!!!
Vaqle bene

-- In novaroma@--------, cassius622@a... wrote:
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> It is my great pleasure to announce that the Nova Roma coins have
arrived,
> and that they are *wonderful*! They are struck in bronze and are
the size of
> a US half dollar. An image of a scanned coin may be seen at:
>
> <A
HREF="http://www.goldenfuture.net/mediatlantica/coin.jpg">http://www.g
oldenfuture.net/mediatlantica/coin.jpg </A>
>
> The new coins are Sestertius coins, (actually Sestertius Signum,
or "token
> sestertius" for legal purposes) and will be usable trade tokens for
Nova
> Roma. They will be available for 50 cents US, and will be
guaranteed for that
> amount to make them a workable means of exchange at events, etc!
>
> The Sestertius coins are a huge step forward for Nova Roma. Not
only are they
> a great promotion and sign of our commitment, they are also a
unique effort
> among Micronations as far as I am aware. Other sovereignty projects
have
> minted coinage as "commemoratives" only, knowing fully well that
there would
> be no means to use them in trade. Nova Roma, with it's commitment
to building
> local Provinciae around the world, will be able to use it's
coinage. No
> "admission tickets" or "food tickets" at events for us! :)
>
> Roman Days in Maryland this coming June will be the
first "economic" test for
> the NR coins. The coins will be available for sale at the Nova Roma
tent.
> Nova Roma will also of course be accepting the coins at
their "standard
> value" in trade for items, as will be a few, if not all of the
other vendors
> at the event. It shouldn't take long before it becomes a working
system in
> all the Provincia, giving a real feeling of Roman authenticity at
public
> events.
>
> The Sestertii coins will be available on the NR website this next
week. All
> that's lacking at this point is the cost of shipping various
quantities of
> coins. My guess is that they'll be sold in quantities of four and
up.
> Sestertii coins will also be available for "in person" sales
through all
> Provincia, to help avoid international postage problems, but that
will of
> course take a few weeks to arrange. More details will be coming
soon!
>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
> Consul
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Nova Roma Coins ARE IN!
From:	Piparskeggr Ullarsson <catamount_grange@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 22:48:55 -0500

Ave Octavianus et alia,

octavianuslucius@-------- wrote:
>
> L. Pompeius Octavianus Consuli Cassio Juliano S.P.D.
> The coins are extremely beautiful!!!!!!!!!!
> Vaqle bene
>

Yes they are, and I placed my order before following the link. I'm glad I'll be getting a work of
beauty in exchange for monies I committed.

--
===========================================
In Amicus sub Fidelis, Benedicte Omnes!
- Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
Cives, Paterfamilias Gens Ulleria
Quæstor, Legate, Dominus Sodalis

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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Re: Nova Roma Coins ARE IN!
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 00:00:15 -0400

Salvete

(For the record, I have a quantity of coins that I can distribute here in
Mediatlantica Provincia at our meetings at the regular exchange rate of
$0.50 per sesterce. More incentive to come to movie night!)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: octavianuslucius@-------- [mailto:octavianuslucius@--------]
> Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 11:38 PM
>
> L. Pompeius Octavianus Consuli Cassio Juliano S.P.D.
> The coins are extremely beautiful!!!!!!!!!!

I can tell you from personal experience, as one who has kept two sesterces
in my pocket for more than a week, that they are more than beautiful.

The first thing you'll do is keep it in your pocket, and take it out every
hour or so-- not even realizing how often you do it-- and just sort of drink
it in; gaze at it in wonder, realizing that it IS real, and just stand in
awe of the tangibility of it.

Owning such a coin is something of a spiritual experience in and of itself.
Knowing that it is there, and real, and you can take it out of your pocket
and gaze upon it is just an unbelievable feeling. Our whole venture is
tangible in a way it never was before.

Nova Roma is real. Don't believe it? Just look in your pocket.

Next year in the Forum!

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
ICQ: 106199729
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Nova Roma Coins ARE IN!
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 21:05:34 -0700

Ave,

More incentive to come??? Are you going to start charging for
admission...or condiments....Consul? <smirk>

Jokingly,

Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: "Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 9:00 PM
Subject: RE: [novaroma] Re: Nova Roma Coins ARE IN!

> Salvete
>
> (For the record, I have a quantity of coins that I can distribute here in
> Mediatlantica Provincia at our meetings at the regular exchange rate of
> $0.50 per sesterce. More incentive to come to movie night!)
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: octavianuslucius@-------- [mailto:octavianuslucius@--------]
> > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 11:38 PM
> >
> > L. Pompeius Octavianus Consuli Cassio Juliano S.P.D.
> > The coins are extremely beautiful!!!!!!!!!!
>
> I can tell you from personal experience, as one who has kept two sesterces
> in my pocket for more than a week, that they are more than beautiful.
>
> The first thing you'll do is keep it in your pocket, and take it out every
> hour or so-- not even realizing how often you do it-- and just sort of
drink
> it in; gaze at it in wonder, realizing that it IS real, and just stand in
> awe of the tangibility of it.
>
> Owning such a coin is something of a spiritual experience in and of
itself.
> Knowing that it is there, and real, and you can take it out of your pocket
> and gaze upon it is just an unbelievable feeling. Our whole venture is
> tangible in a way it never was before.
>
> Nova Roma is real. Don't believe it? Just look in your pocket.
>
> Next year in the Forum!
>
> Vale,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> Consul
>
> email: germanicus@--------
> AIM: Flavius Vedius
> ICQ: 106199729
> www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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Subject:	[novaroma] Bye for now
From:	gcassiusnerva@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 00:07:10 EDT

I'm leaving for Germany and will see you all in May.

Gaius Cassius Nerva

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Bye for now
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 21:08:26 -0700

Vale Nerva...see ya soon..and have an excellent time in Germania!

Sulla Felix
----- Original Message -----
From: <gcassiusnerva@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 9:07 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Bye for now

> I'm leaving for Germany and will see you all in May.
>
> Gaius Cassius Nerva
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Nova Roma Coins ARE IN!
From:	"Oppius Flaccus Severus" <oppiusflaccus@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 21:09:04 -0700

Salve Consul Cassi;

The coins are *truly* magnificent! A
true beauty to behold. I can't wait until
I have a bunch of them!

Bene vale,
Oppius
-----Original Message-----
From: cassius622@-------- [mailto:cassius622@--------]
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 7:17 PM
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: [novaroma] Nova Roma Coins ARE IN!

Salvete Omnes,

It is my great pleasure to announce that the Nova Roma coins have arrived,
and that they are *wonderful*! They are struck in bronze and are the size of
a US half dollar. An image of a scanned coin may be seen at:

<A
HREF="http://www.goldenfuture.net/mediatlantica/coin.jpg">http://www.goldenfutur
e.net/mediatlantica/coin.jpg </A>

<snipped>

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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Bye for now
From:	"Oppius Flaccus Severus" <oppiusflaccus@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 21:10:48 -0700

Salve Nerva!

Have a great time in Germania. Hope you'll share
your experiences when you get back. May the Gods
provide safe passage and bountiful fun.

Bene vale,
Oppius
-----Original Message-----
From: gcassiusnerva@-------- [mailto:gcassiusnerva@--------]
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 9:07 PM
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: [novaroma] Bye for now

I'm leaving for Germany and will see you all in May.

Gaius Cassius Nerva

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Re: Nova Roma Coins ARE IN!
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 00:15:25 -0400

Salvete

> -----Original Message-----
> From: L. Cornelius Sulla Felix [mailto:alexious@--------]
> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 12:06 AM
>
> More incentive to come??? Are you going to start charging for
> admission...or condiments....Consul? <smirk>

Only if people pay in sestercii... ;-)

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
ICQ: 106199729
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org

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Subject:	[novaroma] An Alternative to the Name-change Edict
From:	"M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@-------->
Date:	Thu, 12 Apr 2001 21:46:35 +0200

M. Apollonius Formosanus omnibus Quiritibus S.P.D.

On 9 Apr 2001 01:16:56 -0000, novaroma@-------- wrote:
>Subject: An Alternative to the Name-change Edict
>
>Ex papilio Luci Mari Peregrini omnes Quirites s.p.d.
>
>Salvete omnes...
>
>Well, there you have it: the text of the Edictum de Nominibus
>Mutandis, the 'Name-change Edict', as posted by our senior Consul
>last week. It is difficult to appreciate, to look at the present
>edict, that it was the interim solution for *the* biggest
>controversy in Nova Roma last year. And to think that it all
>started out with a simple Censor's
>ruling that the grammatical gender of all Citizens' Roman names
>should correspond to their biological sex...
>
>(If that sounds as invasive to any of you as it does to me, you may
>begin to grasp just how strong the feelings were that were raised by
>the original 'Gender Edict'.)
>
>The present edict was a great improvement on its predecessor. I
>myself was very much in favor of the Edictum de Nominibus Mutandis
>when it first appeared. I called it a fine Edict that deserved to
>be made into a fine Lex. The Roman-name sections with which it
>begins are still the best guidance we've got going for how to
>properly construct an authentic Roman name; and, with one great
>exception to be noted and discussed, the means specified for
>changing or correcting one's Roman name are not a particular burden
>to anyone involved.
>
>But should a Citizen, for whatever reason, wish to change the
>grammatical gender of his or her listed Roman name, that seems to be
>the one direction the present edict won't flex. It does contain
>'transgender provisions', yes; but these are unduly complicated and
>have thus far been applied in all the most cumbersome ways possible.
>
>First of all, why would a Citizen want to change the gender of his
>Roman name? I can think of three reasons:
>-- the gender of the Citizen's name was originally entered in error
> (as Nomenclator I saw a lot of this, male applicants choosing names
> with feminine components and vice versa);
>-- the Citizen is no longer living as the gender specified by his or
> her Roman name (as, for example, transgendered individuals);
>-- the Citizen has had his or her sex physically changed (as for
> transsexuals) or never had a clearly-defined physical sex to begin
> with (as in the case of hermaphrodites).
>
>None of these reasons justify the kind of jumping-through-hoops and
>sharing of sensitive info demanded by those sections of the Edict.
>In the first case we are talking about a simple administrative
>error, a correction of records. In the last two cases, we are
>speaking of matters of personal identity or sensitive medical nature
>that need as little outside interference as possible, such decisions
>being difficult enough for the people who have made them.
>
>What a Citizen chooses to be called should be between himself, his
>Paterfamilias, and his gods if he has any. None of it, except for
>the record-keeping, should be the purview of the Censores' Office.
>
>So, just for grins, a few months ago I came up with an alternate
>drafting for the transgender provisions that would not be so heavy
>on the paperwork, and would put the thing even more squarely in the
>hands of the Paterfamilias. All article, section and clause
>numberings are as in the original; anything not specifically changed
>remains the same...and of course any feedback is welcome!
>
>
><---- Begin Forwarded Message ---->
>From: Marius the Wanderer <peregrinus@-------->
>Subject: Re: Alternative to Edictum d.M.N.
>Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 12:18:41 -0600 (CST)
>
>Our revisions below; my suggestions in [brackets].
>
>XIX.
>iv) The [grammatical] gender of the name is to be consistent. Each
>part is to agree with all others in [grammatical] gender.
>
>I know it is stated at the beginning of the Edictum that the term
>"gender" shall refer to linguistic gender only; but that was, what,
>sixteen articles ago?, and I think the authors got a little confused
>on
>that point themselves by the time they wrote the 'offending
>articles' in question.
>
>The basic problem is that, while the Edictum sets forth specific
>terms for (a) physical sex and (b) grammatical gender, there is no
>corresponding term for *social* gender (id est, the gender role a
>Citizen fulfills in daily life) even though there is a fairly
>lengthy article treating of same. I would suggest modifying Article
>IV to read:
>
>[IV. Also note that this document uses the term 'sex' to describe
>the physical sex of a person, the term 'social gender' to refer to
>the gender role a person fulfills in daily life, and the term
>'grammatical gender' to refer to linguistic gender only.]
>
>Okay, now the big one...
>
>[XX.
>A Citizen who wishes to change the sex he or she previously
>registered or the gender of the name initially registered shall
>inform his or her Mater-/Paterfamilias. The citizen and the
>Paterfamilias shall be required to appear jointly before the
>Censores, and to swear or affirm before the Censores that the change
>is being made to
> (a) correct an original inaccuracy,
> (b) accommodate a change of the Citizen's physical sex (as for
>example by surgical means), or
> (c) conform to a change in the social gender lived out by the
>Citizen in everyday life in his or her place of physical residence.]
>
>["Everyday life" shall here be construed as real personal contacts
>with employers, intimates and the public, and not local legal
>preassumptions, of whose equitableness in any given jurisdiction
Nova
>Roman authorities cannot be certain. Having changed social gender,
>the Citizen may and must adopt an otherwise properly-formed Roman
>name in the corresponding grammatical gender.]
>
><----- End Forwarded Message ----->

RESPONDEO: I neglected to say anything about this proposal initially,
as I was more interested in the philosophical and ethical issues
behind the matter, and had no particular feelings about the precise
mechanism proposed here. I have been asked privately about my
feelings on this version, however, so U shall go on rec0rd with the
following comment:

I myself would simply say, "the Censors are to register any name
change submitted by a civis, providing that the revised name is
consistent with the principles for the original adoption of a Roman
name heretofore stated."

Marius' proposed version is therefore a compromise, since it gives
precise and limited criteria for the change of a name in gender and
the oversight and presumed veto power of the pater/mater familias.

Since I think that the criteria provided and the ability to change
gens if necessary successfully make it possible for a transgendering
individual to change his or her name appropriately when necessary
with a minimum of undue red tape or imposition, I would be willing to
accept such a compromise, were it offered to us for a vote. Will it
be?

Valete!

_________________________________________________
Marcus Apollonius Formosanus, Aedilis Plebeius Novae Romae
Amicus Dignitatis; Scriba Censorius
Paterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae (http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/)
Moderator et Praeceptor Sodalitatis Latinitatis
Moderator Indicis protoprovincialis NR_Venediae
ICQ# 61698049 AIM: MAFormosanus MSN: Formosanus
Civis Novae Romae in Silesia, Polonia
Minervium Virtuale: http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/Minervium.htm
The Gens Apollonia is open to new members.
Ave nostra Respublica Libera - Nova Roma!
____________________________________________________
Memento Idus Martias - non omnino bene Respublica se habet.
(Remember the Ides of March - it is not all well with the Republic.)
____________________________________________________

All that is needed for the forces of evil to triumph in the world is for
enough good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke
___________________________________________________

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] A new member of gens Vedia
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 01:39:57 EDT

Salve Flavius Vedius

What a pleasure to come back to the list after a day or two and find your
announcment. Congratulations to you and to Priscilla Vedia, and good
health to Vedia Juliana.

L. Sergius Aust. Obst.

On 4/11/01 5:58 PM Flavius Vedius Germanicus (germanicus@--------)
wrote:

>Salvete
>
>It is with boundless pleasure that I would like to welcome Vedia Juliana
>(aka Samantha Morgan Bloch) to gens Vedia. She was born last night at 10:22
>eastern time via caesarian section, weighing 9 pounds 3 ounces and measuring
>20 inches in length. She and her mother, Priscilla Vedia, are resting
>comfortably in the hospital (due to be released Saturday), and her father
>(yours truly) is bouncing off the walls with joy and pride. :-)
>
>Next year in the Forum!
>
>Valete,
>
>Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
>Consul
>

------------------------------------------------------------
vita brevis sed amor longus, et amor omnia vincit

Life is short but Love is long, and Love conquers all.

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Nova Roma Coins are IN!!
From:	QFabiusMax@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 02:27:05 EDT

Salve Marcus Cassius

If these are available for mail order purchase now, I need some to give out
for bets at our miniature chariot race next Sat. This will add greatly to the
festivities. How quick can we turn around?

Vale
Q. Fabius Maximus

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Nova Roma Coins are IN!!
From:	QFabiusMax@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 02:55:16 EDT

Salvete

That was supposed to be a private message to the Consul.
Sorry for the waste of bandwith.

Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: [ScholaLatina] Latinized form of Massachusetts??
From:	"M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 09:42:54 +0200

Salve Minuci!

If you find it on a Harvard diploma, you had better believe it! It is
a rather old form, a substantive genitive plural, meaning "In the
Republic of the Massachusetts (Tribe)". From, presumably, a singular
form "Massachusettensis" meaning "a Massachusetts tribesman" or
"pertaining to the Massachusetts (Tribe)".

It is also possible that the idea is one of using the plural of the
inhabitants as the same of the place. For example, "Sinae" (pl.) for
China or "Seres" (pl.) for China. (Classical forms, today we most
oftan say "China" or "Sina".)

The form that I have here is "Massaciusetta". This is more modern
and easier to use, but the form given by Harvard is also, as one
would suspect!, correct. It is not rare for a place to have several
alternative names in Latin used at different times or simply by
different authors or authorities.

By the way, the "ch" in the name was originally pronounced as "sh",
being a French transcription of the Indian name. (Just as 'Chicago'
begins with an "sh" sound for the same reason, even today.) In Latin,
of course, "ch" is K+H, and "ciu" is like KYU.

Bene Vale!

M. Apollonius Formosanus,
Magister Ludi

On Thu, 12 Apr 2001 19:51:33 -0400, scholalatina@--------
wrote:
>Salvete!
>
>I've been trying to track down a latinization of "Massachusetts"
>with little luck. I just ran across something today that I think may
>be it, but I'd like to run it by the experts! ^_^ I was looking at
>my grandfathers dipolma from Harvard, which is in Latin, and I
>noticed at the top the following sentence:
>
>" In Republica Massachusettensium omnibus ad quos hae litterae
>pervenerint salutem."
>
>So would Massachusettensium be the proper latinized form?? If anyone
>knows, I'd really appreciate it!
>
>Multas Gratias!
>
>Valete!
>
>
>C. Minucius Hadrianus
>Legatus of Massachusetts
>Pilus Prior Secunda Cohors
>Legio VI Victrix
>
>ICQ# 28924742
>
>"Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum." - Vegetius
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>Vivat Latinum!
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>ScholaLatina-unsubscribe@--------
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Marcus Apollonius Formosanus
Paterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae (http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/)
ICQ# 61698049 AIM: MAFormosanus MSN: Formosanus@--------
Minervium Virtuale: http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/Minervium.htm
Ave Romanitas! Ave Latinitas! Ave Humanitas!
_____________________________________
Si vis omnia tibi subicere, te subice Rationi. (Seneca)
(Se vi deziras subigi al vi chion, subigu vin al Racio)
________________________________________

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] festival Sodalitas Musarum
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Tiberius=20Apollonius=20Cicatrix?= <consulromanus@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 09:24:55 +0100 (BST)

Salve Salix Astur

--- Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> wrote: >
Salvete, romani quirites; et salve, Apolloni
> Cicatrix.
>
> Great piece of information! It's nice to see a job
> well done. It has
> been specially interesting for me since I have the
> intention to create
> a civitas in Madrid (Spain). I surely will take
> inspiration from your
> essay. Besides, it is even more appropriate because
> one of the original
> texts came from a town in Hispania, so I'd say we
> would be just
> recreating a local tradition :-).
>
> Thank you very much.
>
> Valete Bene.
> Gnaeus Salix Astur, protocivis romanus.

Actually, the two towns of Irni and Urso should be
close to each other. I have found Urso on a map, but
not Irni. Do you know where it was situated?

Vale
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix

=====
"De te autem, Catilina, cum quiescunt, probant; cum patiuntur, decernunt; cum tacent, clamant." (M. Tullius Cicero: In Catilinam I, 20)

____________________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] festival Sodalitas Musarum
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Tiberius=20Apollonius=20Cicatrix?= <consulromanus@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 09:43:17 +0100 (BST)

Salve, Salix

And I even forgot to thank you for your kind words!
First I thought it would be a rather boring subject...
Anyway, thanx

Tiberius

PS. The English translation of the Lex Irnitana I used
to make my essay is written by Michael H Crawford and
I think it should have been published in a book or
article by Julian Gonzalez. The translation of the Lex
Ursonensis should be out of a book or article called
'Roman Statutes'. Maybe you can somehow track them
down.

--- Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
<consulromanus@--------> wrote: > Salve Salix Astur
>
> --- Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> wrote:
> >
> Salvete, romani quirites; et salve, Apolloni
> > Cicatrix.
> >
> > Great piece of information! It's nice to see a job
> > well done. It has
> > been specially interesting for me since I have the
> > intention to create
> > a civitas in Madrid (Spain). I surely will take
> > inspiration from your
> > essay. Besides, it is even more appropriate
> because
> > one of the original
> > texts came from a town in Hispania, so I'd say we
> > would be just
> > recreating a local tradition :-).
> >
> > Thank you very much.
> >
> > Valete Bene.
> > Gnaeus Salix Astur, protocivis romanus.
>
>
> Actually, the two towns of Irni and Urso should be
> close to each other. I have found Urso on a map, but
> not Irni. Do you know where it was situated?
>
> Vale
> Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
>
> =====
> "De te autem, Catilina, cum quiescunt, probant; cum
> patiuntur, decernunt; cum tacent, clamant." (M.
> Tullius Cicero: In Catilinam I, 20)
>
>
____________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at
> http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
> or your free @yahoo.ie address at
> http://mail.yahoo.ie
>

=====
"De te autem, Catilina, cum quiescunt, probant; cum patiuntur, decernunt; cum tacent, clamant." (M. Tullius Cicero: In Catilinam I, 20)

____________________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] The alternative name-change edict
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 11:27:44 +0200

Salvete Consul et Quirites Novae Romae

> I'm still going very, very slowly through the voluminous email that's
piled
> up, but I did want to point out that L Marius actually posted the
> alternative wording for the edictum (reluctantly) at my urging. It was
sent
> to me privately a while ago, but I thought it would be best if it came
from
> the source. So, regardless of what you may think of the _content_ of the
> suggested alternative, please rest assured that the impetus for the post
> came from me, rather than some desire to cause a ruckus. I would also urge
> everyone to comment on the substance of the suggested alternatives, rather
> than any ancilliary issues.
>
> I'll be posting on the substance of the whole issue later tonight
(assuming
> that I can tear myself away from feeding little Vedia long enough to do
> so!).
>
> Oh, and thanks to everyone for your kind words about our blessed event.
It's
> wonderful to see such an outpouring of good feelings. We are truly
friends,
> even if we do disagree at times.

My 2 denarii: what if we put both the original AND the reworked version by
Marius up for a vote? That would be honest, no?

Valete bene!
Draco

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Problems for a new citizen
From:	Lucilla Cornelia Cinna <CorneliaLucilla@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 13:33:39 +0200

Salve Gai Noviodune Ferricule,

(German translation below)

I wholeheartedly welcome you to Nova Roma and - as Quaestrix praetoria
C. Flavio Diocletiano Praetori Propraetorique Provinciae Germaniae - to
the province Germania to which today's Switzerland belongs as part of
the Regio Germania Superioris, according to the ancient ordo
provinciarum in this area.

Since your other questions ave been answered, I would like to invite you
to the mainling list of the Provincia Germania at yahoo! Groups:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nrgermania
You can find the homepage of Provincia Germania at
http://www.novaroma.de/nr/

Propraetor (gouvernor) of Provincia Germania is C. Flavius Diocletianus
(propraetor@--------)
Legatus Regionis Germaniae superioris is Q. Quinctilius Varus Galili
(legatus.gs@--------)

For more information feel free to contact me privately at
quaestrix@-------- or one of the above.

We will gladly welcome you to the provincial list.
_________________________________________________

Ich begrüße dich von ganzem Herzen in Nova Roma und - als Quaestrix
praetoria C. Flavio Diocletiano Praetori Propraetorique Provinciae
Germaniae - in der Provinz Germania, zu der die heutige Schweiz als ein
Teil der Regio Germania superior gehört - entsprechend der antiken
Einteilung der Provinzen.

Da deinen anderen Fragen bereits beantwortet sine, möchte ich dich gerne
zur Mailingliste der Provincia Germania bei yahoo! Groups einladen:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nrgermania
Die Homepage der Provincia Germania findest du unter
http://www.novaroma.de/nr/

Propraetor (Gouverneur) der Provincia Germania ist C. Flavius
Diocletianus (propraetor@--------)
Legatus Regionis Germaniae superioris ist Q. Quinctilius Varus Galili
(legatus.gs@--------)

Für weitere informationen kannst du mich gerne privat kontaktieren unter
quaestrix@-------- oder einen der beiden obigen.

Wir werden glücklich sein, dich auf der Provinzilaliste begrüßen zu dürfen.

Bene vale,

Lucilla Cornelia Cinna
Quaestrix praetoria C. Flavio Diocletiano Praetori

Erich Reto Iseli wrote:

> SALVETE OMNES,
>
> Nomen meus Gaius Noviodunus Ferriculus est.
>
> Today, I had the privilege to be accepted as a citizen of Nova Roma.
> However, I still feel like a barbarus. There are some details I don't
> understand.
>
> - Why is there no provincia Helvetia?
> - I wrote a description about my nomen gentis, however this doesn't
> appear in the album gentium. why? can this still be added now?
> - same for the gods
> - how can I change my personal information
> - why did it take so long from the day of my registration until
> today? (2-3 weeks)
>
> Gratias ago those who can enlighten my spiritus rudis...
>
> G NOVIODVNVS FERRICVLVS S.D.
>

_________________________________________________________
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Subject:	[novaroma] Congrats, Q. Sertori!
From:	Lucilla Cornelia Cinna <CorneliaLucilla@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 13:44:15 +0200

Congratulations, Q. Sertori, for being elected as Tribunus Plebis.
I hope you will not lose track with all the duties and responsibilities
you took over ... Keep up the good work!

Bene vale

Lucilla Cornelia Cinna
Quaestrix C. Flavio Diocletiano Praetori

_________________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Congrats, Q. Sertori!
From:	"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 06:31:51 -0500

Thank you very much, and I will not betray NR's trust or my Offices!

QS

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lucilla Cornelia Cinna" <CorneliaLucilla@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 6:44 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Congrats, Q. Sertori!

> Congratulations, Q. Sertori, for being elected as Tribunus Plebis.
> I hope you will not lose track with all the duties and responsibilities
> you took over ... Keep up the good work!
>
> Bene vale
>
> Lucilla Cornelia Cinna
> Quaestrix C. Flavio Diocletiano Praetori
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Latinized form of Massachusetts??
From:	margali <margali@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 08:02:27 -0400

So what would latin for 'large hilly place' be? Curiosity now has
me in its grasp! And if we can find 7 hills in the right spot do
we have Rome? ;-0
margali
Hyapatia Asinia
[maybe I need more coffee this early in the day]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Quote Starts Here:
Massachusetts -From Indian tribe named after "large hill place"
identified by Capt. John Smith as being near Milton, Mass.

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Subject:	[novaroma] The Cursus Honorum Essay Revisited
From:	Publius Gramatinicus Albinus <syphax_venaliccii@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 05:36:22 -0700 (PDT)

Well, it seems I can't get attachments going, so I
will paste it on here. Its a 5 page essay, so it will
be quite long. Again, tell me what you think, and be
honest with me (as that will tell me what my Latin
teacher will think of it!)

The Cursus Honorum
An essay by Joel Baumgartner(my real name)
Period III

The Cursus Honorum, to begin with, was Rome’s
political ladder. Used throughout the entire empire,
its thrive was during Rome’s great Republic. The
Cursus Honorum was used mainly as a guide to the
illustrious rank of Consul. The Cursus Honorum was
open mainly to the Senatorial class, although it was
not restricted to that class. It was quite possible
that anyone from any class (excluding slaves, freedmen
and foreigners) could rise through the ranks.
The young Senatorial classed male would generally
enter the Cursus Honorum at around age 35 or so, even
though the minimal age was 31. He would start the
ladder at its lowest rung, the Quaestor, and hope to
work his way up to the rank of Consul. Each position
had its own specific set of duties (some more detailed
than others), and each had a certain amount of power.
We shall start off discussing the Quaestor.
The Quaestor was the lowest rank, a required for any
male wanting to become a high ranked politician. The
minimum age for a Quaestor was 31 years, and they had
to maintain the equivalent of 400,000 sesterces to
remain a Senator. The Quaestor’s duties included
financial administration, maintenance of public
records, and served each general or provincial
governor as a treasure or paymaster. They could also
serve as blood judges.
Initially there were only eight Quaestors. During the
time of Sulla in 88 BC, this was upped to 20, and
during Caesar’s time, the number was 40. The Quaestors
were elected by the Comitia Tributa, and served for a
term of one year. Their power was described as
potestas, which was the power of a magistrate to
enforce the law by authority of his office.
Next, after the Quaestor, is the rank of Aedile. The
rank of Aedile held the responsibility of that of a
modern public works administrator. They supervised the
market, the baths, the water supply, they provided for
plays, acted as surveyors, acted as a police force,
and looked after the welfare of public roads and
buildings, and even regulated traffic in Rome. Four
men, of a minimum age of 37, initially held the rank
of Aedile. Caesar later upped this to six in 49 BC.
Each Aedile was elected by the Comitia Tributa, and
had the potestas power of authority. Also do note that
there were curule and plebian Aediles. Next comes our
position of Praetor.
There were two sets of Praetors. The first were the
Praetor Urbanus, or Urban Praetors, and the Praetor
Peregrinus, or alien Praetors. The minimum age for a
Praetor was 40 years, and the Comitia Centuriata
elected each. They each served one year, and had the
power of imperium, or supreme authority which involved
the command of armies, law interpretation and
execution, and the right to inflict corporal
punishment. There were initially only six Praetors,
although Sulla had this upped to eight in 88 BC, but
then was later repealed by Caesar. There are even some
accounts that have had anywhere of upwards 18 Praetors
(during Nero’s reign).
The jobs of the Praetor differed slightly for each
one. For the Praetor Urbanus, they had supreme justice
in Rome, they could command the army, they could
summon the Comitia Centuriata, and they could
legislate. The Praetor Peregrinus dealt with lawsuits
involving foreigners, and issued annual edicts that
listed policy for laws. More or less, Praetors were
akin to our modern judges.
The final rank of the Cursus Honorum is that of
Consul. The rank of Consul held that of imperium, and
held only a one-year term. The Comitia Centuriata
elected them. Every Senator had his eyes set on one
day becoming a Consul. There were only two Consuls
each year, and the year would be commonly referred by
their names. For example, if Julius Caesar and Marcus
Aurelius held the office of Consul together, it would
be the year of Caesar and Aurelius.
The rank of Consul held the most power during the
Republic. They were the Commanders of the Army, they
conducted elections of the Consulship and of the
Praetorship, they presided over meeting of the senate
(but rarely intervened in its proceedings), and they
implemented the will of the state. It was common that
one Consul would take the reigns during his term, as
was during Caesar’s Consulship. In fact, his co-consul
was so scared to show himself, the year was jokingly
called the Consulship of Julius and Caesar!
There were other, smaller roles on the Cursus Honorum
(although not officially a rung in the ladder), most
of which were sitting of committees, or working as a
Censor or Tribune. Each position held its own power,
each equally important as the other in the Cursus
Honorum.
There were two Censors elected each term, and each
term last approximately 18 months. But, they were only
elected every five years, which meant that there were
periods when there were no Censors in office. They had
the power of potestas and were elected by the Comitia
Centuriata. It was also necessary for all Censors to
have previously held the office of Consul.
The Censors conducted the census, prosecuted
individuals who lied during a census about property
holdings, controlled public morals (although Caesar
held the Praefectura Morum without being Censor),
prepared the roll of senators, supervised the leasing
of Ager Publicus, and auctioned government tenders and
contracts. As you can see, the Censors had very
important jobs indeed.
Tribunes were elected for terms of one year, and
there were 10 of each. There were Patrician and
Plebian tribunes, each serving their own class. The
patrician tribune was elected by the Comitia Tributa
and the plebian tribune was elected by the Concilium
Plebis. Both had the potestas authority. Their jobs
included the defense of the lives/property of their
electorate (this meant that their homes had to be open
for asylum since they were secure from personal harm
by the virtue of sacrosanctity), they had the right of
veto (intercessio) against magistrate elections,
decrees and laws/actions of the Senate and
Magistrates, and they supervised the election of their
successors.
And there were also two special offices, both held
only in the verge of a crisis. There was the Dictator
and the Magister Equitum.
The office of Dictator was for the duration of only
six months. The Dictator held the power equal to two
Consuls. The Dictator was appointed by the Consuls on
advice from the Senate. His job superseded all other
magistrates in a military or serious domestic
emergency.
And the office of Magister Equitum (Master of the
Horse), held office just like the Dictator. His power
was that of imperium, and he was appointed by the
Dictator and served as the Dictator’s Lieutenant. Also
note that the Magister Equitum did not necessarily
emerge from the Equite class. Others could hold this
position.
And that is the Cursus Honorum, and all related
offices. As you can see, it was a very detailed and
long journey, filled with the satisfaction of serving
mother Rome. And after a life on the Roman political
scene, most took time off to attend to their villas in
the country.

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	[novaroma] New Member
From:	V_Praetoria@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 13:14:05 -0000

Avete Omnes,
I would like to welcome Mira Sejana Vespania not only to my gens, but
also to NR. I feel she will be a great asset to all of us . I am
honored to have her as a member of my gens, and welcome her with open
arms.

Pontius Sejanus Marius,
Propraetor, America Austroccidentalis

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Subject:	[novaroma] Congratulations
From:	ksterne@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 13:52:55 -0000

Salvete,

Congratulations to Quintus Sertorius on his election as Tribune.
Best of luck in your new duties.

Also, congratulations to Lucius Pompeius Octavianus for running a
very close race. Good luck in the future.

Valete,
Gaius Popillius Laenas

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Apologies to Titus Octavius Pius and Caeso Fabius
From:	Christer Edling <tjalens.h@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 15:49:21 +0200

Salve Honorable Legatus Oppius Flaccus Severus!

> Caeso Fabi, who is also a tireless worker on behalf
>of the Respublica and a consummate Roman.

As You know I have been under the "surface" to work with the organistion of
Provincia Thule. I saw this short discussion before, but I really hadn't
time to comment. I have been up working with Thule until 02.30 a few
nights. I now limit my comment to the quotation above.

Yes I am a worker "on behalf of the Respublica", but I don't feel very
"tireless" when the clock nears 02.30. ;-) Yes I try to be true the Roman
virtues! And I admit that I take it quite seriously!

I must thank You for your many kind words about me and the citizens of
Thule on the NR main list and the ThuleNova Roma list. I aso thank You, on
the behalf of myself and my Cohors Propraetoris, for your continued
interest and support for our efforts.

Vale

Christer Edling
alias
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
SHAMALI SALUKIS
************************************************
CAMELOT ROLEPLAYING WORKSHOP
Robert Andersson & Christer Edling
************************************************
IF GAMES - If reality was different!
Markus Sundbom & Christer Edling
************************************************
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Subject:	[novaroma] Coins
From:	ksterne@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 13:54:41 -0000

Salve Esteemed Consul Marcus Cassius,

Excellent job on the coins. Your hard work is much appreciated.

Vale,
Gaius Popillius Laenas

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Subject:	Re: Another correction (Re: [novaroma] Replies)
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 15:54:03 +0200

Salve Gnae Salix,

> Well, I am trying to convince people to make local meetings in Europe.
> I've made several calls to all Novoromans to join me in the celebration
> of the Parilia in Madrid. This far, just two people have answered my
> call (and one did it just to say he couldn't come!). And I KNOW there
> are more than two citizens in the Madrid area (I personally know some
> of them). Do you have any ideas to dynamize our European citizens?
>
> Another idea could be to prepare an all-European meeting. After all, if
> Americans can do it, why can't we? We generally live much closer to
> each other!

We do, but Europeans have a different notice of distance than Americans. A
general all-European meeting may be a good idea, but the problem is: where
and when? A central country like Germany or France may be a good idea. But
there should be a coordinator for such a meeting, to regulate things like
hotels, invitations, visitis, restaurants all that. A "native" from Gallia
or Germania might do this. Perhaps we could discuss this idea more offline.

Vale bene!
Draco

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Subject:	[novaroma] Provincia Helvetia = Switzerland
From:	Erich Reto Iseli <erich.iseli@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 10:36:17 +0200

Quirites!

I just discovered that you have all been fooled! The Provincia Helvetia
(Switzerland) doesn't exist yet. But if you look at the map
http://www.novaroma.org/bin/view/continent?con=1
you will see that it is part of the Provincia Germania.

Now look at the Senatusconsultum which created Germania:

"We also purpose that a new province be added to Rome. That of Germany
and Austria, to be called Germania."
http://www.novaroma.de/nr/provincia/archiv/sc020100.htm

I don't see any "Switzerland" mentioned in there!

Now let me explain why it is important Switzerland NOT to be part of
Germania. Although a majority of people living there speak German, there
are also plenty of them to speak French and even some of them to speak
Italian. Therefore, any pages for Novaroma citizens living in
Switzerland should be in these three languages.

So it is absolutely not a matter of one modern macronation should be one
Provincia. I do agree that some groups like Germany/Austria make sense.
But Switzerland is truly a special case. For those who collect stamps,
you all know that there is no "Suisse" or "Schweiz" on them, but only
"HELVETIA", just to make sure no one is lost. And the international
abbreviation of Switzerland is CH which stands for Confoederatio Helvetica.

With this message, Quirites, I want to start a debate on creating a new
Provincia Helvetia, independent from the provincia Germania.

Helvetienses, speak up!

vobis gratias ago,
GAIVS NOVIODVNVS FERRICVLVS ciuis

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Latinized form of Massachusetts??
From:	Erich Reto Iseli <erich.iseli@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 14:10:06 +0200

Gaius Noviodunus Ferriculus Hyapatiae Asiniae S. D.

I think that "Magnus Collimontius Locus" would do. Barely any longer
than "Massachusetts" ;-)

Vale

margali wrote:

> So what would latin for 'large hilly place' be? Curiosity now has

> me in its grasp! And if we can find 7 hills in the right spot do

> we have Rome? ;-0

> margali

> Hyapatia Asinia

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Provincia Helvetia = Switzerland
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 09:13:35 -0500 (CDT)

Salve Gai Noviodune,

> Now look at the Senatusconsultum which created Germania:
>
> "We also purpose that a new province be added to Rome. That of Germany
> and Austria, to be called Germania."
> http://www.novaroma.de/nr/provincia/archiv/sc020100.htm
>
> I don't see any "Switzerland" mentioned in there!

Helvetia was incorporated into Germania in a recent Senate vote. See:

http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/senate/2000-12-05-iv.html

Vale, Octavius.

--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator

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Subject:	[novaroma] CANADA OCCIDENTALIS EDICTA NUMBER TWELVE
From:	"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 08:59:12 -0500

CANADA OCCIDENTALIS EDICTA NUMBER TWELVE

APPOINTMENT OF PROVINCIAL CORNICULARIUS (ADJUTANT)
6 Apr 2001

Salve All

I, Quintus Sertorius, Propraetor Canada Occidentalis, issue the following Edicta to announce the appointment of Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa to the position of Provoncial Cornicularis(adjutant) for Canada Occidentalis.

Vale

Quintus Sertorius

Tribune

Quaestor

Propraetor

Canada Occidentalis

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] A new member of gens Vedia
From:	CatherineVStoudt@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 10:22:07 EDT

Yes, Greetings to the new little one!!!

~ Anneia Rvsticiana Ivlia

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Subject:	[novaroma] Libertatis Festum
From:	"M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 17:22:38 +0200

M. Apollonius Formosanus omnibus Quiritibus S.P.D.

Today, the 13th of April is not only the Ides and one day in the
Ceralia, but is also the Festival of Libertas, Goddess of Liberty.
Libertas is typically depicted carrying the rod of manumission (for
the freeing of slaves) and wearing the Liberty Cap.

It is therefore a good time for all of us to consider to what degree
we enjoy freedom in Nova Roma today and to what degree we do not. The
plebeians of Roma Antiqua had a long and hard uphill battle to gain
true freedom and equality in their own city, and perhaps due to the
defeat of the Gracchi never totally succeeded. Yet they did succeed
to a great degree, and that impetus and love for Liberty has
inspired us down to the present day. Athens might have been more
free, but until quite recently its model was suspected (albeit
unfairly) of being mobocracy, while Rome's example of a free people
making its own laws and electing its own magistrates was looked up to
and was an inspiration in the foundation of the American Republic and
others

In Nova Roma we enjoy one great freedom that we do not enjoy even in
our macronations, however democratic: we can leave at any time
without intolerably great economic or practical penalties, without
becoming stateless persons. On the Ides of March past several of the
most humane and eminent voices for libertas in our Res Publica took
advantage of that right, to the great loss of Nova Roma and those who
remain. This should be a constant lesson for all who consider policy
and all lead us that for Nova Roma to prosper it must treat its cives
with respect and do its best to serve them. Many a macronation can
force its citizens to serve it and weigh them down with heavy taxes,
punitive laws, official arrogance, political corruption, and
bureaucratic red tape - but we are not the kind of an entity that can
get away with that, and if it is tried, people of common sense will
simply depart.

That gives us a constant bottom line of libertas here, although some
seem to want to ignore it and act have Nova Roma act like a
macrostate that can get away with these abuses.

I have recently had occasion to ask in this forum whether it is
possible for people of minority sexual groups to have their needs met
in straightforward and humane ways. Is it possible, I have also
asked, for a user of a language other than English to receive - and
have his language receive - completely equal treatment here? And can
a dissenting voice be raised without being subject to hysterical
attacks and organised ridicule?

I also see that the issue of clientela is being raised of late,
which is certainly a serious threat to the libertas of our society. I
do not believe that it was completely evil in Roma Antiqua or that it
*has* to be evil in every case here. But I know it to have been used
here in at least one or two cases as a condition proposed or implied
for the obtaining of a senate seat. When I entered Nova Roma a little
over a year ago there was a solid consensus that some things such as
clientela, blood sacrifice, the inequality of the sexes, and slavery
were emphatically, absolutely and for ever *not* considered
appropriate for us to take over from Roma Antiqua. This consensus is
fraying, and the character of our social culture is changing for the
worse. I think we had all better beware of this trend and stand up
against it.

There has been serious talk from one Tribune and one Consul about a
bill of rights in this year, which is certainly something that would
make Libertas happy, not to mention me... News of this will be very
welcome, supposing that it has specificity and teeth.

Let us then honour Libertas on Her festal day - and give some long
hard thought to where we stand in respect to our liberties.

Ave Libertas! Nobiscum semper sis!
(Hail Libertas, may you always be with us!)

Valete!

_________________________________________________
Marcus Apollonius Formosanus, Aedilis Plebeius Novae Romae
Amicus Dignitatis; Scriba Censorius
Paterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae (http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/)
Moderator et Praeceptor Sodalitatis Latinitatis
Moderator Indicis protoprovincialis NR_Venediae
ICQ# 61698049 AIM: MAFormosanus MSN: Formosanus
Civis Novae Romae in Silesia, Polonia
Minervium Virtuale: http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/Minervium.htm
The Gens Apollonia is open to new members.
Ave nostra Respublica Libera - Nova Roma!
____________________________________________________
Memento Idus Martias - non omnino bene Respublica se habet.
(Remember the Ides of March - it is not all well with the Republic.)
____________________________________________________

All that is needed for the forces of evil to triumph in the world is for
enough good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke
___________________________________________________

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Provincia Helvetia = Switzerland
From:	"G. Noviodunus Ferriculus" <Gaius.Noviodunus@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 16:43:38 +0200

Salve Marce Octavi,

Ooops! I didn't see this one ;-). Has there been any debate on this
subject? Because I think my arguments are stronger than the fact that
part of Switzerland was part of Provincia Germania some 2000 years ago.
After all, you cannot use this argument for the Provincia California
either ;-)

Tibi S.D. Gaius Noviodunus

Marcus Octavius Germanicus wrote:

> Salve Gai Noviodune,

>

>

>>Now look at the Senatusconsultum which created Germania:

>>

>>"We also purpose that a new province be added to Rome. That of Germany

>>and Austria, to be called Germania."

>>http://www.novaroma.de/nr/provincia/archiv/sc020100.htm

>>

>>I don't see any "Switzerland" mentioned in there!

>>

>

> Helvetia was incorporated into Germania in a recent Senate vote. See:

>

> http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/senate/2000-12-05-iv.html

>

> Vale, Octavius.

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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Provincia Helvetia = Switzerland
From:	"Oppius Flaccus Severus" <oppiusflaccus@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 08:43:20 -0700

Salve Gai Noviodune;

A quick thought -I believe this issue was in fact
brought up by one or two cives a few months ago.
(My apologies for not having the posts immediately
handy.) The discussion centered around the linguistic/
cultural makeup of Switzerland and that it should
be separate. -You might want to check the Nova Roma
archives for further information.

Bene vale,
Oppius
-----Original Message-----
From: G. Noviodunus Ferriculus [mailto:Gaius.Noviodunus@--------]
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 7:44 AM
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Provincia Helvetia = Switzerland

Salve Marce Octavi,

Ooops! I didn't see this one ;-). Has there been any debate on this
subject? Because I think my arguments are stronger than the fact that
part of Switzerland was part of Provincia Germania some 2000 years ago.
After all, you cannot use this argument for the Provincia California
either ;-)

Tibi S.D. Gaius Noviodunus

Marcus Octavius Germanicus wrote:

> Salve Gai Noviodune,

>

>

>>Now look at the Senatusconsultum which created Germania:

>>

>>"We also purpose that a new province be added to Rome. That of Germany

>>and Austria, to be called Germania."

>>http://www.novaroma.de/nr/provincia/archiv/sc020100.htm

>>

>>I don't see any "Switzerland" mentioned in there!

>>

>

> Helvetia was incorporated into Germania in a recent Senate vote. See:

>

> http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/senate/2000-12-05-iv.html

>

> Vale, Octavius.


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Provincia Helvetia = Switzerland
From:	=?iso-8859-1?B?WWFubiBRdely6Q==?= <yquere@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 18:20:36 +0200

Salvete Quiritibus

In fact, if I remember well, it was decided that each citizen living in
Switzerland would be able to choose either to join Provincia Germania,
Gallia or Italia according to his/her language affinity.

Nevertheless, if there are citizens in sufficient number in actual
Confederatio Helveticae, why not asking the Senate to allow the creation of
a new province ?

Gallia has only around 20 citizens for the moment, it is not fully
satisfying but it is quite difficult to find active and interested citizens
so far.

Valete Bene
Ianus Querius Armoricus Lutecio
Propraetor Galliae

----- Original Message -----
From: Erich Reto Iseli <erich.iseli@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 10:36 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Provincia Helvetia = Switzerland

> Quirites!
>
> I just discovered that you have all been fooled! The Provincia Helvetia
> (Switzerland) doesn't exist yet. But if you look at the map
> http://www.novaroma.org/bin/view/continent?con=1
> you will see that it is part of the Provincia Germania.
>
> Now look at the Senatusconsultum which created Germania:
>
> "We also purpose that a new province be added to Rome. That of Germany
> and Austria, to be called Germania."
> http://www.novaroma.de/nr/provincia/archiv/sc020100.htm
>
> I don't see any "Switzerland" mentioned in there!
>
> Now let me explain why it is important Switzerland NOT to be part of
> Germania. Although a majority of people living there speak German, there
> are also plenty of them to speak French and even some of them to speak
> Italian. Therefore, any pages for Novaroma citizens living in
> Switzerland should be in these three languages.
>
> So it is absolutely not a matter of one modern macronation should be one
> Provincia. I do agree that some groups like Germany/Austria make sense.
> But Switzerland is truly a special case. For those who collect stamps,
> you all know that there is no "Suisse" or "Schweiz" on them, but only
> "HELVETIA", just to make sure no one is lost. And the international
> abbreviation of Switzerland is CH which stands for Confoederatio
Helvetica.
>
> With this message, Quirites, I want to start a debate on creating a new
> Provincia Helvetia, independent from the provincia Germania.
>
> Helvetienses, speak up!
>
> vobis gratias ago,
> GAIVS NOVIODVNVS FERRICVLVS ciuis
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Libertatis Festum
From:	"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 11:06:31 -0500

Good day Marcus, I will address your concerns;

----- Original Message -----
From: "M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 10:22 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Libertatis Festum

> M. Apollonius Formosanus omnibus Quiritibus S.P.D.
>
> Today, the 13th of April is not only the Ides and one day in the
> Ceralia, but is also the Festival of Libertas, Goddess of Liberty.
> Libertas is typically depicted carrying the rod of manumission (for
> the freeing of slaves) and wearing the Liberty Cap.

QS;
You always amaze me with your knowledge of all things Roman. Please continue
to share your mental achieve with us!

>
> It is therefore a good time for all of us to consider to what degree
> we enjoy freedom in Nova Roma today and to what degree we do not. The
> plebeians of Roma Antiqua had a long and hard uphill battle to gain
> true freedom and equality in their own city, and perhaps due to the
> defeat of the Gracchi never totally succeeded. Yet they did succeed
> to a great degree, and that impetus and love for Liberty has
> inspired us down to the present day.

QS;
We must continue this movement forward, I agree!

> Athens might have been more
> free, but until quite recently its model was suspected (albeit
> unfairly) of being mobocracy, while Rome's example of a free people
> making its own laws and electing its own magistrates was looked up to
> and was an inspiration in the foundation of the American Republic and
> others

QS;
Nice background info!

>
> In Nova Roma we enjoy one great freedom that we do not enjoy even in
> our macronations, however democratic: we can leave at any time
> without intolerably great economic or practical penalties, without
> becoming stateless persons. On the Ides of March past several of the
> most humane and eminent voices for libertas in our Res Publica took
> advantage of that right, to the great loss of Nova Roma and those who
> remain.

QS;
There where no winners on that day. And, It was my Nova Roman birthday too!.

>This should be a constant lesson for all who consider policy
> and all lead us that for Nova Roma to prosper it must treat its cives
> with respect and do its best to serve them.

QS;
Agreed! We need all our citizens to feel welcome.

>Many a macronation can
> force its citizens to serve it and weigh them down with heavy taxes,
> punitive laws, official arrogance, political corruption, and
> bureaucratic red tape - but we are not the kind of an entity that can
> get away with that, and if it is tried, people of common sense will
> simply depart.

QS;
Something we must always be on the watch for.

>
> That gives us a constant bottom line of libertas here, although some
> seem to want to ignore it and {f}act have Nova Roma act like a
> macrostate that can get away with these abuses.

QS;
I do not think anyone is ignoring this, as it is always the "bottom line" we
will lose some citizens. But I feel this process is going along, and should
any issue come to a vote the people will decide. Otherwise we must follow
our governmental process, and I see that being done. It is no requirement
that we all agree.

>
> I have recently had occasion to ask in this forum whether it is
> possible for people of minority sexual groups to have their needs met
> in straightforward and humane ways. Is it possible, I have also
> asked, for a user of a language other than English to receive - and
> have his language receive - completely equal treatment here? And can
> a dissenting voice be raised without being subject to hysterical
> attacks and organised ridicule?

QS;
Needs are being met, and procedures are being worked out. We must remember
these things take time..... I admire your doggedness in following through
on what you believe though!

>
> I also see that the issue of clientela is being raised of late,
> which is certainly a serious threat to the libertas of our society.

QS;
I will have to have faith that we all are working for the best interests on
Roma, as this relationship will continue, and will be for the best.

>I
> do not believe that it was completely evil in Roma Antiqua or that it
> *has* to be evil in every case here. But I know it to have been used
> here in at least one or two cases as a condition proposed or implied
> for the obtaining of a senate seat.

QS;
I would like to see where this was said, not that this is totally wrong.

>When I entered Nova Roma a little
> over a year ago there was a solid consensus that some things such as
> clientela, blood sacrifice, the inequality of the sexes, and slavery
> were emphatically, absolutely and for ever *not* considered
> appropriate for us to take over from Roma Antiqua.

QS;
We must not try to recreate that which was bad from old Rome, but we do have
the ability to know right from wrong. This is how we have come to a very
workable client relationship. You seem to not even consider this a
possibility! This is unfortunate.

>This consensus is
> fraying, and the character of our social culture is changing for the
> worse. I think we had all better beware of this trend and stand up
> against it.

QS;
People are alowwed to relate between themselves, and change will always
happen. And, yes we should stand up to that which is wrong.

>
> There has been serious talk from one Tribune and one Consul about a
> bill of rights in this year, which is certainly something that would
> make Libertas happy, not to mention me... News of this will be very
> welcome, supposing that it has specificity and teeth.

QS;
I am positive that our Consul has a firm grip on the procedure he is using
to pass his laws, it will come to vote. Fear not.

Vale

Quintus Sertorius

Tribune
Queastor
Nova Roma
Propraetor
Canada Occidentalis

Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma

Join the egroup for Canada Occidentalis
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_CanOcc

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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Latinized form of Massachusetts??
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Gnaeus=20Salix=20Astur?= <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 18:30:24 +0200 (CEST)

Salve, Minuci Hadriane.

--- "C. Minucius Hadrianus" <shinjikun@--------> escribió: >
> Salve Salix Astur,
>
> Thanks! I suppose I should have looked at it a bit more closely
> before
> posting! Sadly, my Latin is limited to vague and shadowy remembrances
> from
> High School (11 years ago...), but it's coming back, slowly &
> painfully ~_^

You are welcome. I really feel pleased to help you in any matter.

> The reason I was curious, is that Nova Britannia seems to be the only
> Provincia without Latin (or Latinized) Regio names. In retrospect it
> seems
> like a pretty silly thing to worry about =) As Hyapatia Asinia
> pointed out
> in her reply - Native American names don't particularly lend them
> selves to
> Latinization... (Connecticutus?) In any case, thanks for indulging
> me!
>

You are welcome again. If you don't mind, I'd like to suggest that you
look up the names of the different ecclesial divisions of the Catholic
Church. They probably have translated all those names to Latin, Indian
or not. And they do know good Latin (after all, they've been learning
it for about 2,000 years!).

=====
Bene Valete!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Protocivis romanus.

_______________________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Nova Roma Coins ARE IN!
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Gnaeus=20Salix=20Astur?= <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 18:35:27 +0200 (CEST)

Salvete, romani hispanici.

Hablando de las nuevas monedas, creo que deberíamos crear una lista de
aquellos que deseen comprarlas, para poder hacer una petición
"provincial". Esto rebajará los costes de transporte para todos.

Gnaeus Salix Astur, protocivis romanus.

--- cassius622@-------- escribió: > Salvete Omnes,
>
> It is my great pleasure to announce that the Nova Roma coins have
> arrived,
> and that they are *wonderful*! They are struck in bronze and are the
> size of
> a US half dollar. An image of a scanned coin may be seen at:
>
> <A
>
HREF="http://www.goldenfuture.net/mediatlantica/coin.jpg">http://www.goldenfuture.net/mediatlantica/coin.jpg
> </A>
>
> The new coins are Sestertius coins, (actually Sestertius Signum, or
> "token
> sestertius" for legal purposes) and will be usable trade tokens for
> Nova
> Roma. They will be available for 50 cents US, and will be guaranteed
> for that
> amount to make them a workable means of exchange at events, etc!
>
> The Sestertius coins are a huge step forward for Nova Roma. Not only
> are they
> a great promotion and sign of our commitment, they are also a unique
> effort
> among Micronations as far as I am aware. Other sovereignty projects
> have
> minted coinage as "commemoratives" only, knowing fully well that
> there would
> be no means to use them in trade. Nova Roma, with it's commitment to
> building
> local Provinciae around the world, will be able to use it's coinage.
> No
> "admission tickets" or "food tickets" at events for us! :)
>
> Roman Days in Maryland this coming June will be the first "economic"
> test for
> the NR coins. The coins will be available for sale at the Nova Roma
> tent.
> Nova Roma will also of course be accepting the coins at their
> "standard
> value" in trade for items, as will be a few, if not all of the other
> vendors
> at the event. It shouldn't take long before it becomes a working
> system in
> all the Provincia, giving a real feeling of Roman authenticity at
> public
> events.
>
> The Sestertii coins will be available on the NR website this next
> week. All
> that's lacking at this point is the cost of shipping various
> quantities of
> coins. My guess is that they'll be sold in quantities of four and up.
>
> Sestertii coins will also be available for "in person" sales through
> all
> Provincia, to help avoid international postage problems, but that
> will of
> course take a few weeks to arrange. More details will be coming soon!
>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
> Consul
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

=====
Bene Valete!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Protocivis romanus.

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Subject:	[novaroma] WELCOME NEW MEMBER
From:	Brian Tillery <britil@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 10:35:36 -0500

A HEARTY WELCOME TO THE NEWEST MEMBER OF CONSELS FAMILY. MY THE GODS AND
GODDESSES PROTECT HER AND FAVOR HER ALL OF HER DAYS.
MARCUS FLAVIUS
S.P.Q.R.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[novaroma] The oath of Vibius Minucius Falco
From:	=?iso-8859-1?Q?Hampus_R=E5de?= <hampus.rade@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 17:52:24 +0200

Ave, quirites.

I, Vibius Minucius Falco (Hampus Råde), do hereby solemnly swear to
uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests
of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.
As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Vibius Minucius Falco (Hampus Råde),
swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public
dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.
I, Vibius Minucius Falco (Hampus Råde), swear to uphold and defend
the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to
act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.
I, Vibius Minucius Falco (Hampus Råde), swear to protect and defend
the Constitution of Nova Roma.
I, Vibius Minucius Falco (Hampus Råde), further swear to fulfill
the obligations and responsibilities of the offices of Prolegatus Regionis
Suecicae and Procurator ad Res Internas Thulesto the best of my abilities.
On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the
Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I
accept the positions of Prolegatus Regionis Suecicae and Procurator ad Res
Internas Thules and all the rights, privileges,
obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.

Vale,

With Respect and Friendship
Vibius Minucius Falco
Prolegatus Regionis Suecicae and
Procurator ad Res Internas
**********************************
Regio Suecica Official Homepage
http://hem.fyristorg.com/regiosuecica/Index.htm
Provincia Thule Official Homepage
http://www.acc.umu.se/~kerish/novaroma
**********************************
hampus.rade@--------
Sävar the Capital of Thule
**********************************

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] The Cursus Honorum Essay Revisited
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Gnaeus=20Salix=20Astur?= <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 19:06:20 +0200 (CEST)

Salvete, romani; et salve, Grammatinice Albine.

Great piece of work, if I may say it! I'd put you a 20/20.

Gnaeus Salix Astur, protocivis romanus.

--- Publius Gramatinicus Albinus <syphax_venaliccii@-------->
escribió: > Well, it seems I can't get attachments going, so I
> will paste it on here. Its a 5 page essay, so it will
> be quite long. Again, tell me what you think, and be
> honest with me (as that will tell me what my Latin
> teacher will think of it!)
>

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] festival Sodalitas Musarum
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Gnaeus=20Salix=20Astur?= <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 18:58:23 +0200 (CEST)

Salve, Apolloni Cicatrix.

--- Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix <consulromanus@--------> escribió: >
Salve Salix Astur
>
> Actually, the two towns of Irni and Urso should be
> close to each other. I have found Urso on a map, but
> not Irni. Do you know where it was situated?
>
> Vale
> Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
>

I don't know. If you could find a modern name for Irni, it would be
quite easy to locate it.

=====
Bene Valete!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Protocivis romanus.

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] festival Sodalitas Musarum
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Gnaeus=20Salix=20Astur?= <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 19:02:14 +0200 (CEST)

Salve, Apolloni Cicatrix.

--- Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix <consulromanus@--------> escribió: >
Salve, Salix
>
> And I even forgot to thank you for your kind words!
> First I thought it would be a rather boring subject...
> Anyway, thanx

You are welcome. I didn't mind.

>
> Tiberius
>
> PS. The English translation of the Lex Irnitana I used
> to make my essay is written by Michael H Crawford and
> I think it should have been published in a book or
> article by Julian Gonzalez. The translation of the Lex
> Ursonensis should be out of a book or article called
> 'Roman Statutes'. Maybe you can somehow track them
> down.
>
>
> --- Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix

I'll try to, I promise. I'll look in my local library if they do have
that book. I don't have access to a specific historical library,
though. I am a student, but an engineering student.

=====
Bene Valete!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Protocivis romanus.

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Subject:	Re: Another correction (Re: [novaroma] Replies)
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Gnaeus=20Salix=20Astur?= <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 19:15:53 +0200 (CEST)

Salve, Apolloni Draco.

--- "S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> escribió: > Salve
Gnae Salix,
>
>
> > Well, I am trying to convince people to make local meetings in
> Europe.
> > I've made several calls to all Novoromans to join me in the
> celebration
> > of the Parilia in Madrid. This far, just two people have answered
> my
> > call (and one did it just to say he couldn't come!). And I KNOW
> there
> > are more than two citizens in the Madrid area (I personally know
> some
> > of them). Do you have any ideas to dynamize our European citizens?
> >
> > Another idea could be to prepare an all-European meeting. After
> all, if
> > Americans can do it, why can't we? We generally live much closer to
> > each other!
>
> We do, but Europeans have a different notice of distance than
> Americans. A
> general all-European meeting may be a good idea, but the problem is:
> where
> and when? A central country like Germany or France may be a good
> idea. But
> there should be a coordinator for such a meeting, to regulate things
> like
> hotels, invitations, visitis, restaurants all that. A "native" from
> Gallia
> or Germania might do this. Perhaps we could discuss this idea more
> offline.
>
> Vale bene!
> Draco

I think Belgica is also pretty well placed! As a hispanicus, I would
prefer Gallia (southwestern Gallia, if possible ;-) ). But I know there
are many citizens in Germania, Thule, and such. Maybe we should forward
this message to every European provincial list, to see what happens.
I've already forwarded it to NRHispania.

Anyway, we could start to get information about the "Roman Days" they
do in America, just to get some ideas.

Another idea I've just had. So we are Europeans; shouldn't we take
profit of it? If we chose an emplacement with a large Roman tradition
(something like Emerita Augusta -Mérida, Spain- or Colonia Agrippina
-Köln, Germany-) we could get funds from local governments. Or maybe
even from the EU government. Nothing lost for asking.

=====
Bene Valete!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Protocivis romanus.

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Subject:	Re: Fwd: Re: [novaroma] Nova Roma Coins ARE IN!
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Gnaeus=20Salix=20Astur?= <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 19:24:52 +0200 (CEST)

Salvete, romani quirites.

--- trog99@-------- escribió: > --- In novaroma@y..., Gnaeus Salix
Astur <salixastur@--------> wrote:
> Salvete, romani hispanici.
>
> Hablando de las nuevas monedas, creo que deberíamos crear una lista
> de
> aquellos que deseen comprarlas, para poder hacer una petición
> "provincial". Esto rebajará los costes de transporte para todos.
> ***************************
> Salvete Gnaeus Salix Austur:
>
> I am writing to give you a friendly reminder that an English
> translation must accompany all posts to the Nova Roma mainlist at
> this
> time, for a variety of reasons, one of which is that the list
> moderators at this time are English speaking only.
>
> Bona fida,
> Pompeia Cornelia Strabo
> Scriba Curatrix Sermonen
> Nova Roma
>

Sorry, just my fault! Translation follows:

Salve, romani hispanici.

Speaking of the new coins, I think we should create a list of those
willing to buy them, so we can make a "provincial" petition. This would
lower shipping costs for everyone.

=====
Bene Valete!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Protocivis romanus.

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Subject:	[novaroma] Taxes & Other Matters
From:	Gaia Natalina Casca <gaianatalinacasca@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 11:29:23 -0700 (PDT)

Greetings all...I'm still trying to catch my breath
and catch up on all the "goings-on", but I thought I
should comment when and where I feel lead to.

Please forgive if I jump into an issue that has been
discussed to death, or re-visit ideas that have
already been brought up, as I've only been able to
partake of the list's mailings for the last few days,
and may have missed something...

On the idea of taxes...When I first joined Nova Roma
in July of last year, I was rather surprised that
there were no membership fees or taxes. It seems to
me that this is a fairly logical idea, provided that
it could be handled fairly and with an eye to
inclusion rather than exclusion. Having joined while
in a relatively inferior financial position than the
one I enjoy today, I would have been unable to join
had there been any sizeable fee to do so. I would be
against any measure that would leavy a burdeon at
application for citizenship.

That said however, I would certainly support the idea
of supporting our nation in some other fashion,
perhaps in the way of a yearly (or whatever other
increment that is seen as fitting) tax based upon
duration of citizenship (thereby those with the most
committment to the group are supporting it
financially, while those with only cursory interest
are allowed to remain interested without having to
invest money they might not have).

On the issue of gender, names and sexuality (as
implied by the issue at hand)...it would seem to me
that we, as a micronation striving to live up to the
best of Roman life and divorce ourselves from the
practices that were less than in keeping with the
ideals of that same society, we should indeed embrace
those whose lives have led them to express themselves
in ways that differ with their biological identity.
The recognition of a person by the gender identity
which best suits them seems to be the only way to go.

In a perfect world, we are who we are and our
government, families and friends accept it
unquestioningly. We may not live in a perfect world,
but if we are working at building toward that goal
(that of a perfect world), why not pull the stumbling
blocks out of the way from the get-go, rather than
dragging them with us for miles before we realize
we've fettered ourselves with them?

Lastly, to those whose Gens has been increased through
birth or adoption, and those who have been appointed,
elected or are taking vacation (which I wish I could
be doing!) congratulations!

Happy Friday all...(sorry for the long post)

=====
Gaia Natalina Casca
Fremont, California

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Subject:	[novaroma] Nova Roma Coins are IN!!
From:	"Pompeia Cornelia" <scriba_forum@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 02:58:21 -0000


Subject:	[novaroma] Perfect World
From:	"Lucius Mauricius Procopious" <procopious@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 12:42:32 -0700

Salvete Gaia Natalina et omnes,

Warning: Long Post
you may wish to save this for spare time or delete if uninterested.The short
version is this: I suggest the formation of committees that would research
ancient practices in subjects like financial practices, education, health
care, civil rights, et cetera. These committees would form suggestions as to
how we can adapt ancient practices to Nova Roma in the present while trying
to honor the spirit of our cives drive for a "perfect world" .

I think the comments you made about seeking a perfect world merit further
discussion:

"We may not live in a perfect world,
> but (if) we are working at building toward that goal
> (that of a perfect world)"

{The () on "if" was added by me.}
In order to avoid some of the extreme emotions some issues raise I would
like to consider our "perfect world" in the area of finances rather than
other areas.
My question is this, what do we think is a perfect world? I think we all
agree it should be Roman. At least for us. But what about the rest?
Obviously, there is some disagreement about what is and is not a civil right
so let's leave that alone. (By the way I may have access to a mediator if
anyone thinks that would help the yelling on this list.) What about
financial practices and institutions? Now that we have currency and are
talking about taxes would be a good time to begin this discussion. As I read
the recent wonderful post about municipal officers, I noticed one officials
job was to ensure grain and other foodstuffs were in supply to feed the
cives. Who paid for that food? Was it the government. Will we use a similar
system? I'm not suggesting the Government feed and care for us. I'm pointing
out we need to start talking about how we adapt past practices to the
present.
As much as I would like to advocate a system that ensures wealth for all, I
don't think that would be in our best interest. Will Durrant in "Our
Oriental Heritage" says something like; "When a civilization is forming it
tends toward communism as an equal sharing of resources ensures the survival
of the group. When extra resources are obtainable, some individuals will
seek more than they need while the majority will be happy with their lot and
the civilization transforms to capitalism or dissolves."
In my opinion capitalism may be a dead end street as well. It seems to be a
financial form of military conquest. Once you have the world where do you
go? According to Chaos theory (I'm paraphrasing this from another list I'm
on) Institutions that attempt to maintain the status quo are doomed to be
torn apart by inside and outside forces.
It sounds to me we are destined to be competitive beings. How can we utilize
the practices of our forefathers to ensure we have a financial system that
allows enough competition and room for growth that it survives and yet fits
our hopes for a perfect world?
These questions could easily be altered to address health care, public
works, et cetera.
As a corporation we have the opportunity to meet many of these needs once we
have the resources. We don't have to wait for sovereign territory, but we
will need to grow and gain financial strength. In time we could offer health
insurance, banking (I've heard it's relatively easy to start a credit union,
but that might be relative to finding the fountain of youth :) ) education
(Some of which is already occurring) et cetera. How can we adapt ancient
Roman practices in those areas to Nova Roma? Would it be wise to form
committees to examine some of these issues to research practices in antiqua
and offer suggestions as to how this can be adapted in the present. We might
have to find volunteers for the civil rights committee at sword point unless
some of you like to brawl. :) Hopefully the other committees will find much
concordia if formed. In closing I would like to stress the importance of
these Committees looking very hard at our perceptions of a perfect world.
Like the idea of sharing wealth equally, many ideas of perfection simply
don't work. Some ideas held by our ancestors may seem cruel or unfair but in
reality they built the greatest empire known to man.

Lucius Mauricius Procopious
Propraetor America Boreoccidentalis
(This is an unofficial post for which I assume full responsibility)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
procopious@--------
ICQ# 83516618
*America Boreoccidentalis Mail List
http://www.egroups.com/group/AmBor_Waves
* The Gens Mauricia
http://www.geocities.com/procopious

"Indeed, it is not by the plans of men, but by the hand of God that the
affairs of men are directed; and this men call Fate, not knowing the reason
for what things they see occur; and what seems to be without cause is easy
to call the accident of chance. Still, this is a matter every mortal will
decide for himself according to his taste."
-Procopius of Caesarea (in Palestine) [born c.490/507- died c.560s]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gaia Natalina Casca" <gaianatalinacasca@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 11:29 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Taxes & Other Matters

> Greetings all...I'm still trying to catch my breath
> and catch up on all the "goings-on", but I thought I
> should comment when and where I feel lead to.
>
> Please forgive if I jump into an issue that has been
> discussed to death, or re-visit ideas that have
> already been brought up, as I've only been able to
> partake of the list's mailings for the last few days,
> and may have missed something...
>
> On the idea of taxes...When I first joined Nova Roma
> in July of last year, I was rather surprised that
> there were no membership fees or taxes. It seems to
> me that this is a fairly logical idea, provided that
> it could be handled fairly and with an eye to
> inclusion rather than exclusion. Having joined while
> in a relatively inferior financial position than the
> one I enjoy today, I would have been unable to join
> had there been any sizeable fee to do so. I would be
> against any measure that would leavy a burdeon at
> application for citizenship.
>
> That said however, I would certainly support the idea
> of supporting our nation in some other fashion,
> perhaps in the way of a yearly (or whatever other
> increment that is seen as fitting) tax based upon
> duration of citizenship (thereby those with the most
> committment to the group are supporting it
> financially, while those with only cursory interest
> are allowed to remain interested without having to
> invest money they might not have).
>
> On the issue of gender, names and sexuality (as
> implied by the issue at hand)...it would seem to me
> that we, as a micronation striving to live up to the
> best of Roman life and divorce ourselves from the
> practices that were less than in keeping with the
> ideals of that same society, we should indeed embrace
> those whose lives have led them to express themselves
> in ways that differ with their biological identity.
> The recognition of a person by the gender identity
> which best suits them seems to be the only way to go.
>
>
> In a perfect world, we are who we are and our
> government, families and friends accept it
> unquestioningly. stumbling
> blocks out of the way from the get-go, rather than
> dragging them with us for miles before we realize
> we've fettered ourselves with them?
>
> Lastly, to those whose Gens has been increased through
> birth or adoption, and those who have been appointed,
> elected or are taking vacation (which I wish I could
> be doing!) congratulations!
>
> Happy Friday all...(sorry for the long post)
>
>
> =====
> Gaia Natalina Casca
> Fremont, California
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] The alternative name-change edict
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 12:40:55 -0700

"S. Apollonius Draco" wrote:
>
> Salvete Consul et Quirites Novae Romae
>
> > I'm still going very, very slowly through the voluminous email that's
> piled
> > up, but I did want to point out that L Marius actually posted the
> > alternative wording for the edictum (reluctantly) at my urging. It was
> sent
> > to me privately a while ago, but I thought it would be best if it came
> from
> > the source. So, regardless of what you may think of the _content_ of the
> > suggested alternative, please rest assured that the impetus for the post
> > came from me, rather than some desire to cause a ruckus. I would also urge
> > everyone to comment on the substance of the suggested alternatives, rather
> > than any ancilliary issues.
> >
> > I'll be posting on the substance of the whole issue later tonight
> (assuming
> > that I can tear myself away from feeding little Vedia long enough to do
> > so!).
> >
> > Oh, and thanks to everyone for your kind words about our blessed event.
> It's
> > wonderful to see such an outpouring of good feelings. We are truly
> friends,
> > even if we do disagree at times.
>
> My 2 denarii: what if we put both the original AND the reworked version by
> Marius up for a vote? That would be honest, no?

Salvete,

The Censors disagree, The current name change edict is a law as long
as the
authoring Censor remains in office. Not only that but it
was written by C. Marius Merullus and L. Cornelius Sulla. For those
who do
not
know, C. Marius is Lucia Maria's OWN Paterfamilias. If this name
change
edict satisfied his requirements to the extent that he defended it last
year. And the fact that he co-authored the name change edict. I think
that this should be the sole edict up for promulgation. (Now if anyone
doubts the fact that the Paterfamilias spoke up in defense of the
current edict, please feel free to go back into the archieves and check
for yourself.)

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Nova Roma Coins ARE IN!
From:	"A. Cato" <a.cato@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 15:57:32 -0400

Salve Cassi: Excellent! Please put me down for fifty of them! I am
unable to access the images though. I keep getting "Page Not Found". Which
address do we send payment to? Ave atque vale, ... Appius Tullius
Marcellus Cato, ... Rogator
----- Original Message -----
From: <cassius622@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 10:17 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Nova Roma Coins ARE IN!

> Salvete Omnes,
>
> It is my great pleasure to announce that the Nova Roma coins have arrived,
> and that they are *wonderful*! They are struck in bronze and are the size
of
> a US half dollar. An image of a scanned coin may be seen at:
>
> <A
HREF="http://www.goldenfuture.net/mediatlantica/coin.jpg">http://www.goldenf
uture.net/mediatlantica/coin.jpg </A>
>
> The new coins are Sestertius coins, (actually Sestertius Signum, or "token
> sestertius" for legal purposes) and will be usable trade tokens for Nova
> Roma. They will be available for 50 cents US, and will be guaranteed for
that
> amount to make them a workable means of exchange at events, etc!
>
> The Sestertius coins are a huge step forward for Nova Roma. Not only are
they
> a great promotion and sign of our commitment, they are also a unique
effort
> among Micronations as far as I am aware. Other sovereignty projects have
> minted coinage as "commemoratives" only, knowing fully well that there
would
> be no means to use them in trade. Nova Roma, with it's commitment to
building
> local Provinciae around the world, will be able to use it's coinage. No
> "admission tickets" or "food tickets" at events for us! :)
>
> Roman Days in Maryland this coming June will be the first "economic" test
for
> the NR coins. The coins will be available for sale at the Nova Roma tent.
> Nova Roma will also of course be accepting the coins at their "standard
> value" in trade for items, as will be a few, if not all of the other
vendors
> at the event. It shouldn't take long before it becomes a working system in
> all the Provincia, giving a real feeling of Roman authenticity at public
> events.
>
> The Sestertii coins will be available on the NR website this next week.
All
> that's lacking at this point is the cost of shipping various quantities of
> coins. My guess is that they'll be sold in quantities of four and up.
> Sestertii coins will also be available for "in person" sales through all
> Provincia, to help avoid international postage problems, but that will of
> course take a few weeks to arrange. More details will be coming soon!
>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
> Consul
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Provincia Helvetia = Switzerland
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 12:51:52 -0700

Ave,

There is another Senatus Consultum that refers directly about
Switzerland.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla

Erich Reto Iseli wrote:
>
> Quirites!
>
> I just discovered that you have all been fooled! The Provincia Helvetia
> (Switzerland) doesn't exist yet. But if you look at the map
> http://www.novaroma.org/bin/view/continent?con=1
> you will see that it is part of the Provincia Germania.
>
> Now look at the Senatusconsultum which created Germania:
>
> "We also purpose that a new province be added to Rome. That of Germany
> and Austria, to be called Germania."
> http://www.novaroma.de/nr/provincia/archiv/sc020100.htm
>
> I don't see any "Switzerland" mentioned in there!
>
> Now let me explain why it is important Switzerland NOT to be part of
> Germania. Although a majority of people living there speak German, there
> are also plenty of them to speak French and even some of them to speak
> Italian. Therefore, any pages for Novaroma citizens living in
> Switzerland should be in these three languages.
>
> So it is absolutely not a matter of one modern macronation should be one
> Provincia. I do agree that some groups like Germany/Austria make sense.
> But Switzerland is truly a special case. For those who collect stamps,
> you all know that there is no "Suisse" or "Schweiz" on them, but only
> "HELVETIA", just to make sure no one is lost. And the international
> abbreviation of Switzerland is CH which stands for Confoederatio Helvetica.
>
> With this message, Quirites, I want to start a debate on creating a new
> Provincia Helvetia, independent from the provincia Germania.
>
> Helvetienses, speak up!
>
> vobis gratias ago,
> GAIVS NOVIODVNVS FERRICVLVS ciuis
>
>
>
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Subject:	[novaroma] C.M. Laurentibus
From:	"A. Cato" <a.cato@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 16:32:08 -0400

Salvete Omnes: I am wondering if anyone has heard from Cornelius Moravius Laurentibus? I have not heard from him since early in the Comitia Populi Tributa vote and election that we had back at the end of March. If any one can fill me in, that would be great.
I have sent him a couple of E-mails and have heard nothing back.
Ave atque vale, ... Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato, ... Rogator

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[novaroma] Computer problem
From:	Piparskeggr Ullarsson <catamount_grange@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 17:15:28 -0500

Greetings all,

I had to re-do my confuser with a backup, so I've lost everything, including e-mails, from the past
18 hours or so.

So, If anyone sent me a personal message in that time, and I have not responded, write me again
please.

Many of you will see this message several times, for that I apologize.

--
===========================================
In Frith under Troth, may the Gods see you!
- Piparskeggr skjaldberi Ullar
alias Venator and Steven

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Subject:	[novaroma] Festival Cerealia Submission
From:	"Domna Claudia Auspicata" <comptess@-------->
Date:	Sat, 14 Apr 2001 10:30:29 +1200

Salvete Quiritibus!

Having just submitted this Satire to the appropriate judges I post the work here for all to enjoy(?).
Comments are welcome.

Valete
Domna Claudia Auspicata

In honour of Immortal Ceres, so that our harvest may produce fruits for all.

BeMused Banter

Prima Civis: What are they saying then, oh forever chattering one?

Secunda Civis: Well, do not pour scorn on me for I be but only the messenger. And certainly do not doubt what I hear, I merely report, as the gods be my witnesses, 'tis true what I hear!

Prima Civis: Well go on then and speak! And I shall be the judge of your falsehoods.

Secunda Civis: The stars! Oh my, the stars! They seek to live among the stars! To challenge the gods themselves, would you believe!

Prima Civis: Your ridiculous stories have certainly reached new heights O Secunda Civis, so to speak.

Secunda Civis: No, 'tis true, by the gods, 'tis true. And more they seek to make alliance with the very god of War, terrible Mars. I cannot imagine what they plan, maybe to overthrow the father Jupiter himself. O Revolution! This could be the end! War, war, war is what they speak. From the very mouth of a Sertain one I heard of glory in battle, no merely the glory in the slaughter of people. These soldiers cannot lay down their swords. They are not happy with what few outbreaks of peace that there are in the lands. They would seek war and conquest forever.

Prima Civis: I have little faith in your words, but you surely speak of great hubris here. The divinities would never allow such to happen. The very distance of the heavens keeps us where we belong, our homes, our hallowed temples. To leave would be unimaginable, for how many of our heroes has ever made it to the heavens and how many have left their bodies behind to do so. And this talk of war O Secunda Civis, Roma is surely not just about conquest, it.

Secunda Civis: Oh isn't it? It has happened before has it not? Our ideal and wonderful Republic has degraded before, War and Imperialism. Could this not be so again? As a nation grows who would not be even slightly interested in Entire Command, in Ultimate Power? One shiny medal is not enough; 'defensive' conquests afford great honour even now, is this not so? The delight in command over even one can lead to an insatiable hunger for command over more and more and more. Will it end? Will the gods themselves be lowered? Will the shiny face of a mere mortal replace the image of a god?

Prima Civis: Your stories grow beyond the stars themselves dear Secunda Civis. You must be calm about such snippets you may overhear. The Nation will never be one mortal. The People will never again allow the name of king. I agree there will always be some who see war and conquest as an answer to their insecurity but many have learnt more noble answers. The art of good governance, the most empowering virtue a nation can have. The goodwill and benefactions of one citizen to another, an immeasurable treasure. The preservation of old knowledge, lessons once learnt that should never be forgotten. The creation of works new; reflecting and challenging the contemporary nation, the conscience of the state. And of course the gods, by whom we know who we are, with whom we graciously share this universe now and until eternity. So dear Secunda Civis, do not play Cassandra anymore and be sure to take heed of the silence as well as the brash cries of impetuous youth. The majority need not be swayed by ostentatious displays of overblown rhetorical bluster.

Secunda Civis: I am hurt Prima Civis. I do not believe I deserve such reprimand.

Prima Civis: To be quite honest Secunda Civis I do not quite know to whom I was referring.

Secunda Civis: You know what else they say?

Prima Civis: <sigh> No I don't. I suppose you will enlighten me?

Secunda Civis: Well, well, it comes to light that there is a conspiracy! Yes! The patricians, bitter at being unable to vote in the Comitia Tributa Plebis, are doing their best to sway, cajole, threaten and bully the plebians to vote who they want. Would you believe it! These people who already have a voting advantage in the other comitia would have their way with the one sacred comitia of the plebians!

Prima Civis: Oh you really are such a pleb sometimes.

Secunda Civis: You! I knew it! You too! You.you Patrician! Gone are the days when the patricians were 'best born', when they had better names. Or so I thought, and yet here, now this unequal division is fostered by even the likes of you!

Prima Civis: This 'unequal division' you speak of does not even exist until you speak of it. Those that smell out a 'cause', a 'wrong', those cynics among you that have nothing better to do all day than to cry out for your percieved 'underdog' are creating conflicts where there was none. Even a division in name alone seems enough to send you theorising about the next plot, the next sinister motive. It seems easier for those simplistic mindsets to see the world in black and white, good and bad, them and us. And yet.and yet the shades of gray, many in hue, most spectacular in depth are missed. This subtle spectrum simply passes these people by.oh what they miss.

Secunda Civis: Huh?

Prima Civis: Oh.yes, excuse my colourful digression.

Secunda Civis: Colourful? Gray doesn't sound very colourful, most dreary in fact. But the flare of red however! A red-soaked army, the scarlet rose, a bottle of fine Falernian! The sight, the smell, the taste of red! What of that Prima Civis!

Prima Civis: Ah yes, the impassioned summer of youth. I see what you are saying and rich fruits they are indeed. Summer, the time of growth, the fields pregnant with colourful fruits. A hot sun bearing down to set aflame passions and tempers alike. Any yet I myself prefer Autumn, when we may harvest all that has grown, sit back and enjoy the wisdom of our adventures. When we may watch that which we have no need for turn to gold and flutter away.

Secunda Civis: Hmmm, yes well you sure are fluttering away now. So tell me Prima Civis, is there any particular reason why you are wearing a dress today?

Prima Civis: My dress? Do you like it? I figured that I would from now on follow my ancestors example. You know only real men wore skirts back in the good old days!

Secunda Civis: But you're a woman.aren't you?

Prima Civis: Am I? And what made you think that Secunda Civis? You must not be confused by the gendered name I bear, for it so happens that 'civis' can be a 'feminine' noun and 'prima', being an adjective must agree in number, gender and case! Surely you cannot forgot this prime Latin rule!

Secunda Civis: Yes, yes.number, gender and case. But would you not use the masculine gender for 'civis' if you were a man?

Prima Civis: Well, sometimes I do but today I felt otherwise, I mean really, is it so important? You know who you are talking to don't you.a Civis of Nova Roma! What more do you need?

Secunda Civis: Um, well I suppose.

Prima Civis: Exactly! Now if you are for some 'other' reason interested I could provide proof of my masculinity right now in fact.

Secunda Civis: Di Immortales!! No, no, that's fine.it doesn't really matter.but be careful where you waive that evidence around, it could fall into the wrong hands.

Prima Civis: Careful with the blaspheming there chappy! You know though, I misjudge you sometimes Secunda Civis, with all this talk of seasonal change I realise there must be a place for all seasons, all opinions, all modes of expression, yes the Draconic, the Severe, the Auspicious, and the finely Formed.where would be the revelry, the laughs, the clash of finely beaten mettle for which you so delight. Indeed where would be the cycle of seasons that make our lives interesting, that keep us on our toes!

Secunda Civis: Ah, such poetry my Prima Civis! If I may so humbly ask, be my guide through this exciting world! Be my mentor and teach me the world through your eyes!

Prima Civis: Hmmm, indeed I am honoured. So, in return will you give me support in my endeavours? Will you tell the world that you look to me as your patron? Will you vote for ME?

Secunda Civis: Um, maybe.if I agree with what you are saying at the time and.

Prima Civis: Oh, piss off then.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Nova Roma Coins ARE IN!
From:	octavianuslucius@--------
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 22:39:42 -0000

Salve consul Flavi Vedi Germanice
I am very eager for having one of those coins indeed :-)
Vale bene
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus

--- In novaroma@--------, "Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@n...>
wrote:
> Salvete
>
> (For the record, I have a quantity of coins that I can distribute
here in
> Mediatlantica Provincia at our meetings at the regular exchange
rate of
> $0.50 per sesterce. More incentive to come to movie night!)
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: octav--------sluc---------------- [ma--------:octav--------sluc----------------]
> > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 11:38 PM
> >
> > L. Pompeius Octavianus Consuli Cassio Juliano S.P.D.
> > The coins are extremely beautiful!!!!!!!!!!
>
> I can tell you from personal experience, as one who has kept two
sesterces
> in my pocket for more than a week, that they are more than
beautiful.
>
> The first thing you'll do is keep it in your pocket, and take it
out every
> hour or so-- not even realizing how often you do it-- and just sort
of drink
> it in; gaze at it in wonder, realizing that it IS real, and just
stand in
> awe of the tangibility of it.
>
> Owning such a coin is something of a spiritual experience in and of
itself.
> Knowing that it is there, and real, and you can take it out of your
pocket
> and gaze upon it is just an unbelievable feeling. Our whole venture
is
> tangible in a way it never was before.
>
> Nova Roma is real. Don't believe it? Just look in your pocket.
>
> Next year in the Forum!
>
> Vale,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> Consul
>

> email: germa--------s@-------- > AIM: Flavius Vedius
> ICQ: 106199729
> www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org

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Subject:	[novaroma] Nova Roma Coins
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 15:44:56 -0700

Ave,

Consul Cassius, can we purchase them via Paypal? (I just got my federal tax refund..and I would like to purchase some of them.)

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Nova Roma Coins ARE IN!
From:	Patrick Ferguson <pvitruviusiulianus@-------->
Date:	Fri, 13 Apr 2001 15:26:33 -0700 (PDT)

> Salvete Omnes,
>
> It is my great pleasure to announce that the Nova
> Roma coins have arrived,
> and that they are *wonderful*! They are struck in
> bronze and are the size of
> a US half dollar. An image of a scanned coin may be
> seen at:
>
> <A
>
HREF="http://www.goldenfuture.net/mediatlantica/coin.jpg">http://www.goldenfuture.net/mediatlantica/coin.jpg
> </A>
>
> The new coins are Sestertius coins, (actually
> Sestertius Signum, or "token
> sestertius" for legal purposes) and will be usable
> trade tokens for Nova
> Roma. They will be available for 50 cents US, and
> will be guaranteed for that
> amount to make them a workable means of exchange at
> events, etc!
>
> The Sestertius coins are a huge step forward for
> Nova Roma. Not only are they
> a great promotion and sign of our commitment, they
> are also a unique effort
> among Micronations as far as I am aware. Other
> sovereignty projects have
> minted coinage as "commemoratives" only, knowing
> fully well that there would
> be no means to use them in trade. Nova Roma, with
> it's commitment to building
> local Provinciae around the world, will be able to
> use it's coinage. No
> "admission tickets" or "food tickets" at events for
> us! :)
>
> Roman Days in Maryland this coming June will be the
> first "economic" test for
> the NR coins. The coins will be available for sale
> at the Nova Roma tent.
> Nova Roma will also of course be accepting the coins
> at their "standard
> value" in trade for items, as will be a few, if not
> all of the other vendors
> at the event. It shouldn't take long before it
> becomes a working system in
> all the Provincia, giving a real feeling of Roman
> authenticity at public
> events.
>
> The Sestertii coins will be available on the NR
> website this next week. All
> that's lacking at this point is the cost of shipping
> various quantities of
> coins. My guess is that they'll be sold in
> quantities of four and up.
> Sestertii coins will also be available for "in
> person" sales through all
> Provincia, to help avoid international postage
> problems, but that will of
> course take a few weeks to arrange. More details
> will be coming soon!
>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
> Consul

They certainly are wonderful! I will get some as soon
as I can and hope that I will be able to use them at
any suitable events which come my way (I have heard
that there will be some reenactors coming into Denver,
CO from England early in Septmber.

Thank you Consul Marcus Cassius Iulianus, you have
helped to make a great leap forward for Nova Roma!

Cum summa gratia laudeque,

Patricius Vitruvius Iulianus, Novus Civis Novae Romae

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