Forum Romanum


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Office Suite
From:	lsicinius@--------
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 02:05:26 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, mansker@m... wrote:
> Salve -
>
> Since there is so much bias against the use of MOS, I will withdraw
> my offer (made in the best of spirits)to TRY and assist NovaRoma.
>
> I would, however, like to point out that it is permissable to
> transfer the license for MOS to another computer provided you have
> removed the copy the license is applicable to from the originating
> computer.
>
> Gaia
>

Salve Gaia,

I will start out with a public apology for any offense that you may
have taken from my posts. I am the only one who has stated a personal
bias against Microsoft, Not the other Citizens of Nova Roma. The
reason I state my bias is my personal honesty. It would be dishonest
for me to pretend that my opinion of MS is totally objective.

My Techinal opinion of MSO is that it's the best office suite on the
market, with the exception of it's ability to run Windows Scripting
outside a sandbox. IMHO that ability is a major security flaw and it
is the major reason that Windows has so many Viruses. About 90% of the
Viruses that are causing problems today exploit this flaw.

I in NO way meant to belittle your generous offer and I ask you to
reconsider your decession. Your knowledge would be a great help to
Nova Roma.

My main concern in this matter is the citizens who might be elected to
office and who have no office suite installed on thier computer. If we
expect our officals to purchase an office suite, then we are limiting
office to citizens who can afford one, and in the case of MSO it is a
major expense. If a new offical has MSO installed on thier computer
then I think they should use it. It makes no sense to require they
learn a new suite. If they do not have a suite it would be far cheaper
for Nova Roma to provide a copy of Staroffice than to provide a copy
of MS Office.

Your talents will not go to waste if we adopt Staroffice for those who
don't allready have a suite, because Staroffice can import ANY office
document that dosen't make the Windows Scripting Calls. Since this
ability is rarely used Staroffice can run well over 95% of all MS
Office documents and templetes.

Yes you are correct that MSO can be transfered from one computer to
another, but only if the same person or organization owns both
computers. If you don't have an OEM license from MS you can't transfer
a license from one person to another. The OEM license can only be
transfered to the first owner of a computer. This is what I mean by MS
licenses being non-transferable. Under the terms of the license it is
illegal to donate your used copy of MSO to Nova Roma, even if you
remove the old copy from your computer. If you have an OEM licensed
copy that was preinstalled on your PC it is illegal to transfer it to
your new PC. In order for Nova Roma to transfer a copy of MSO from one
PC to another we would have to have the very expensive full intall
license or the group licenses and these would have to have Nova Roma
as the regestered owner. Next comes the part that could get us into
trouble. If citizen Nemo has a copy on his PC we have to insure that
it is deleted before we can leagaly install it on his replacement's
PC. For most organizations this is no problem. someone from the IS
department goes to Nemo's office and removes the software. Our problem
is that Nemo may be thousands of miles away from our curator of
software, who will be in the postion of being legaly resopnsible for
insuring that MSO has been deleted from Nemo's PC, but will have NO
way of determining that this has been done. Part of my job concerns
software installation and I have to know these licenses.

Vale,
L. Sicinius Drusus


Subject:	[novaroma] A NEW FOUNDATION
From:	cassius622@--------
Date:	Sun, 22 Apr 2001 22:16:17 EDT

Salvete Omnes,

I am pleased to announce the formation of a new Sodalitas for Nova Roma, the
Sodalitas Virtutis et Romanitatis (Society of Virtue and Romanness). This
Sodalitas will be unique in our Micronation in that will have a "modern
world" rather than a historical focus. The Sodalitas Virtutis will have two
specific main goals:

I. To assist Citizens in understanding and maintaining the ancient Roman
Virtues in daily life (as personified by the Personal Roman Virtues) and,

II. To promote Civilized and Virtuous conduct (as personified by the Roman
Public Virtues) among Citizens in our Public Forums.

Most of us have seen that Nova Roma's foundation of Internet communication
has proven to have difficulties as well as benefits. It is time that we
realized that our main means of communication requires special attention to
virtuous conduct, courteous words and behavior, and a focus on personal
integrity.

The Sodalitas Virtutis will be an organized study group as well as a forum
for discussing the Virtues and the Roman Way. Historical information
regarding the Virtues and Romanitas will be examined in modern context - a
context specifically focused on making our public forums and lives as
Citizens of Nova Roma more noble and agreeable.

The Sodalitas will hold within it a New Foundation for Nova Roma in that its
basic structure will be focused on promoting virtuous conduct and personal
honor. A personal pledge to manifest the Virtues both in Public and Private
Nova Roman life will be required for membership. A warning: Taking this
pledge is not a declaration that you feel you *have* the Roman virtues, but
rather a vow to learn them and improve their expression in your daily
behavior.

This Sodalitas is a learning and study group, not the Good Conduct Police.
Those who take the pledge will be bound in honor to regulate their own
conduct. Members of the Sodalitas will advise those who request help with
understanding or manifesting the Virtues, but it is to be understood that
they speak from their own efforts, struggles and mistakes, not from any
position of greater righteousness. Virtue begins with the self before it can
be shared by the community.

A new Yahoo group for the Sodalitas has been set up at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SodalitasVirtutis

To subscribe, simply send a blank email to:
SodalitasVirtutis-subscribe@--------

One does not have to be a member to subscribe to the list, as it is
understandable that some folks might want to check out the Sodalitas before
"joining" formally.

Ideas for a personal pledge for both the Personal and Public Roman Virtues
will be the first topic of discussion. I hope that many Citizens will find
this Sodalitas a focus for their own efforts at personal growth and learning,
and that its efforts may also serve to make Nova Roma a more noble and worthy
community.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Consul, Pontifex Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Provinciae (was Taxes, a hybrid proposal)
From:	lsicinius@--------
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 02:40:10 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> wrote:
> Salvete omnes!
>
> > Salve
> >
> > Having looked at the records from when the provinciae were first set
> > up, I wouldn't want to go into a court with that kind of
> > documentation.
> >
> > I would suggest that the best course of action would be a new
> > consulta that disolved all existing provinciae (just to clear the
> > ground) and then recreated them. The "new" provinces should be vested
> >
> > with a charter that clearly stated that they were no more than
> > adminstrative arms of the Senate of Nova Roma.
> >
> > Having a clear legal document that spelled out the provinces
> > relationship to Nova Roma and that contained safegaurds about the
> > funds would go a long way towards preventing a future recurrance of
> > the situation that the renegades have created in Brittania.
>
> I guess this should not be strictly necessary. A new law, or
> admendments to previous charters, would be an easier way to proceed.
> It's hard enough to organize a Province just once, thank you :-).
>

Since the original documents failed to make the status of the
provinciae clear a future group of renegades could claim that the law
had no bearing on a provincia that they claimed was allways an
independant enity associated with Nova Roma. There would be no room
for such a claim with the "new" provinciae. Organizing the "new"
provincia would require no more than the "new" propraetor issusing an
edicita that recognized all acts done by the "old" provincia. Largely
it's a legal fiction that would have no effect other than giving each
provincia a charter that clearly stated it's relationship to Nova Roma.

> >
> > It may also be a good idea to look into incorparating Nova Roma in
> > one of the EEC Macronations so that Nova Roma will have a better
> > legal standing before courts of these Macronations. This is a common
> > practice among multi-national companies and IMHO Nova Roma should
> > follow this practice.
> >
> > This would make it possible for Nova Roma to handle it's affairs in
> > Europe with a local branch of the treasury, and the Taxes in most of
> > Europe could be collected in Euros which would help solve the
> > exchange problems.
> >
> > Vale
> > L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> BTW, where have you been the last ten years? The EEC does no longer
> exist. Today it's called European Union (EU/UE for short) ;-).

By the Gods, it took me years to quit calling it the Common market,
and you want me to change again! ;o)

Sorry about that. I rarely write about European Politics, as I
consider it a matter best left to Europeans. I'm aware of the latest
name and it was just an old habit that caused me to use the old name.

>
> Of course, as I have stated in previous posts, I completely support
> this opinion.
>
>
> =====
> Bene Valete!
> Gnaeus Salix Astur.
> Civis romanus.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
> http://auctions.yahoo.com/


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Re: Provinciae (was Taxes, a hybrid proposal)
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Sun, 22 Apr 2001 22:41:01 -0400

Salvete

This issue will be addressed in the next meeting of the Senate. Even if it
is not strictly necessary, such clarification could not hurt.

Next year in the Forum!

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
ICQ: 106199729
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] A NEW FOUNDATION
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Sun, 22 Apr 2001 22:54:23 -0400

Salvete

I would just like to say that this is a more-than-welcome development, and
one which I personally heartily endorse. After all, the Virtues were at the
heart of the very concept of Nova Roma at its earliest inception; it is good
to see some vehicle being put in place to see them brought in to sharper
focus, and modern real-world relevance.

Well done, Marcus Cassius. I am proud to call you friend.

Next year in the Forum!

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
ICQ: 106199729
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] The Blues carry!
From:	QFabiusMax@--------
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 03:29:17 EDT

In a message dated 4/22/2001 11:15:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
jrsibley@-------- writes:

<< I'd always thought that the Blues' traditional opponents were the Greens,
not the Whites. The Whites generally raced against the Reds.

Or are we having a sort of all-teams Nova Roma Series?

I certainly hope that noooobody stooped to using cursing defixiones against
the charioteers, chariots, or horses of opposing teams......

Salve S. Ambrosia Fulvia!
No, you are correct. However in CIRCVS MAXIMVS
you have up to 4 horse teams of three racers. The Blues, the Greens, The
Whites, The Reds.
You bet on the outcomes. Which color will finish first, which team color
will finish in the highest standing and still be intact.
In this race, the Greens never finished, one car hit the wall, one car
flipped from taking a turn too fast, and one had a horse drop from
exhaustion. The Reds had two cars flip.
So the race finish went blue, blue, white, blue, white, white, red.
I won both my wagers: Blue finished first, Blue team finished highest in
standings, 1-2-4.
White finished 3-5-6. Red finished last, and Green didn't finish at all.
I hope this clears things up for you.

Vale.
Q. Fabius Maximus.


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Office Suite
From:	QFabiusMax@--------
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 03:45:55 EDT

In a message dated 4/22/2001 2:10:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
mansker@-------- writes:

<< I am using the phrase "in the know" loosely, attributing it to people
who seem to have been here quite a while and who post an enormous
amount.<<
Salvete!

All you new citizens have to realize something here. We "vets" probably have
gone over the same thing you are proposing as a new idea, years ago. We are
trying to prevent you from traveling down that same non productive path.

>>What I seem to see is that some people who have been part of NovaRoma
for a while feel that any new ideas, or ideas that are posted by new
comers that others had posted months (and in some cases, years)
before, are not worth the megabytes that they are posted on.<<

Not true. In fact I rarely post dissuading old ideas, because sometimes a
fresh
prospective might be needed. But when you engage in the same tired old
rhetoric day after day, it does come rather tedious. None of the senior
magistrates are saying don't post, what we are saying, is, "we have thought
of this, and it is unworkable. Next idea please."

>>I find it disturbing to have this attitude seem (and I emphasize
SEEM) to be prevelant when NovaRoma and NovaRoman's as a whole are
talking about the need to have more citizens, and more active
citizens.<>Perhaps the reason that NovaRoma has citizens that are not active is
because they tried to be, and, (unlike myself, who will stay active
regardless of how I am treated), were shot down by the only people
that they really had contact with? >>

Again, I don't think that was the problem. In fact many of my schemes have
been shot down, both when I first joined the Republic, and just recently.
So you are not alone in this
Gaia.

Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus


Subject:	[novaroma] The Politeness Thing
From:	Mark A Bird <mark_a_bird@-------->
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 18:07:48 +1000

General Politeness....

I think one of the problems with Email Communication generally is that it
can be quiet cold and uncaring. Especially for me !!! who is a new citizen
of Nova Roma and I have a lot to learn about email etiquette generally.

I too was sent emails that shocked me a little and I too see some of the
harsh politics that is played out on the electronic super highway, but all I
can say is this - this is still the best thing since sliced bread - I mean
we are creating a piece of history that we all love - what we all have to do
is not only be thick skinned but become actively involved on a face to face
basis and always remember why we are part of this thing in the first place.

What was suggested before about the "politeness / etiquette" school is
exciting and I also look forward to becoming part of that as my own
communication also needs to be addressed for the future on the WWW and Nova
generally.

Valete

Marcus Sentius Claudius
(Future Iegate - will be confirmed I think soon)

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Provinciae (was Taxes, a hybrid proposal)
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 01:30:22 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete omnes!

--- lsicinius@-------- wrote:

(snipped)

> Since the original documents failed to make the status of the
> provinciae clear a future group of renegades could claim that the law
> had no bearing on a provincia that they claimed was allways an
> independant enity associated with Nova Roma. There would be no room
> for such a claim with the "new" provinciae. Organizing the "new"
> provincia would require no more than the "new" propraetor issusing an
> edicita that recognized all acts done by the "old" provincia. Largely
> it's a legal fiction that would have no effect other than giving each
> provincia a charter that clearly stated it's relationship to Nova
> Roma.

Well, if it's just as simple as that, then I have nothing against it.

> By the Gods, it took me years to quit calling it the Common market,
> and you want me to change again! ;o)
>
> Sorry about that. I rarely write about European Politics, as I
> consider it a matter best left to Europeans. I'm aware of the latest
> name and it was just an old habit that caused me to use the old name.
>

Don't worry. No offence taken ;-).

=====
Bene Valete!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Civis romanus.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
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Subject:	[novaroma] Roman Board Games (was The Blues carry!)
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 01:36:02 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete omnes!

CIRCVS MAXIMVS? Are you talking about the board game?

If you are, would it be possible to include these kinds of board games
into our Novoroman activities? I am talking about local champoinships,
Play-By-E-Mail leagues, etc...

PS: BTW, has anyone ever played "Republic of Rome" by the AH company.
Greatest of all board games, IMHO.

=====
Bene Valete!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Civis romanus.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Roman Board Games (was The Blues carry!)
From:	QFabiusMax@--------
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 04:53:05 EDT

In a message dated 4/23/2001 1:36:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
salixastur@-------- writes:

<< CIRCVS MAXIMVS? Are you talking about the board game?

If you are, would it be possible to include these kinds of board games
into our Novoroman activities? I am talking about local champoinships,
Play-By-E-Mail leagues, etc...<<

Salvete Gnaeus Salix Astur et al.

Yes, except we play it with miniature chariots, the car on one base, the
four horses on another.
The track is a sand colored mat, with squares superimposed to facilitate
movement.
The mat is surrounded by Styrofoam walls, with a Styrofoam spina to make the
race track, we even have the eggs and the dolphins on the spina to keep track
of laps.
The players move the chariots by the rules, except we use more the Roman
style of racing and less Byzantine or "Ben Hur" You can swerve into another
chariot in an attempt to dump him, though this is a risky maneuver. You can
drive an opponent into the wall, you cannot bash horses, and you can escape
the track by jumping the wall if you are dumped and you can cut yourself free
before being dragged to death.
That can be rather important.

Bene Valete!

Q. Fabius Maximus


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Roman Board Games (was The Blues carry!)
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 02:03:39 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete omnes; et salve, Maxime.

What an impressive explanation! I see you have greatly improved the
game, especially in its aesthetic aspects. It must be fun even to see!

BTW, what do you think about my suggestion of Nova Roma based leagues
and championships? Do you have any ideas on the subject?

Bene vale!

Gnaeus Salix Astur; civis romanus.

> Salvete Gnaeus Salix Astur et al.
>
> Yes, except we play it with miniature chariots, the car on one base,
> the
> four horses on another.
> The track is a sand colored mat, with squares superimposed to
> facilitate
> movement.
> The mat is surrounded by Styrofoam walls, with a Styrofoam spina to
> make the
> race track, we even have the eggs and the dolphins on the spina to
> keep track
> of laps.
> The players move the chariots by the rules, except we use more the
> Roman
> style of racing and less Byzantine or "Ben Hur" You can swerve into
> another
> chariot in an attempt to dump him, though this is a risky maneuver.
> You can
> drive an opponent into the wall, you cannot bash horses, and you can
> escape
> the track by jumping the wall if you are dumped and you can cut
> yourself free
> before being dragged to death.
> That can be rather important.
>
> Bene Valete!
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] The Politeness Thing
From:	"Daniel Place" <Danat2000@-------->
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:59:10 +0930

Ave Marcus Sentius,

just ta quick note to say;

You already are a Legate. I posted the announcement on April 21st, and you have posted the oath so thats it :-)

Marcus Arcadius
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark A Bird
To: 'novaroma@--------'
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 5:37 PM
Subject: [novaroma] The Politeness Thing

General Politeness....

I think one of the problems with Email Communication generally is that it
can be quiet cold and uncaring. Especially for me !!! who is a new citizen
of Nova Roma and I have a lot to learn about email etiquette generally.

I too was sent emails that shocked me a little and I too see some of the
harsh politics that is played out on the electronic super highway, but all I
can say is this - this is still the best thing since sliced bread - I mean
we are creating a piece of history that we all love - what we all have to do
is not only be thick skinned but become actively involved on a face to face
basis and always remember why we are part of this thing in the first place.

What was suggested before about the "politeness / etiquette" school is
exciting and I also look forward to becoming part of that as my own
communication also needs to be addressed for the future on the WWW and Nova
generally.

Valete

Marcus Sentius Claudius
(Future Iegate - will be confirmed I think soon)

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the Network Administrator on +61 3 9667 6699.

This footnote also confirms that this email message has been scanned
for the presence of computer viruses and inappropriate content.
**********************************************************************


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Roman Board Games (was The Blues carry!)
From:	Piteas@--------
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 14:18:22 -0000

There is a great game for "romans" in the net. It is IMPERIUM. I take
playing three years and I never get tired. The only problem is that
the members number is limited. You can see it in
http://ancient.thevines.com/leaf/AE0000011232
It is really a great role playing game with rules thought to act as a
republican roman.

Salix Galaicus

--- In novaroma@--------, Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> wrote:
> Salvete omnes!
>
> CIRCVS MAXIMVS? Are you talking about the board game?
>
> If you are, would it be possible to include these kinds of board
games
> into our Novoroman activities? I am talking about local
champoinships,
> Play-By-E-Mail leagues, etc...
>
> PS: BTW, has anyone ever played "Republic of Rome" by the AH
company.
> Greatest of all board games, IMHO.
>
>
>
>
> =====
> Bene Valete!
> Gnaeus Salix Astur.
> Civis romanus.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
> http://auctions.yahoo.com/


Subject:	[novaroma] Sodalitas Militarium
From:	tflacco@--------
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 11:28:00 EDT

Salve Roma,

I found this group in the documents, but could not figure out how to join it.
Can anybody help me with this.

Scipio Flaccus Americus


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Sodalitas Militarium
From:	QFabiusMax@--------
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 12:25:23 EDT

In a message dated 4/23/2001 9:13:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
tflacco@-------- writes:

<< I found this group in the documents, but could not figure out how to join
it.
Can anybody help me with this.<<

Salve Scipio Flaccus Americus!
Send an e-mail
To subscribe from this group, send an email to:
SodalitasMilitarium-subscribe@--------
Vale...
Q. Fabius Maximus


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Sodalitas Militarium
From:	"Quintus Sertorius" <quintus-sertorius@-------->
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 11:32:18 -0500

Click here and subscribe! Welcome aboard, I am sure some will help you more
than I am but it is a start!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SodalitasMilitarium

QS

----- Original Message -----
From: <tflacco@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 10:28 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Sodalitas Militarium

> Salve Roma,
>
> I found this group in the documents, but could not figure out how to join
it.
> Can anybody help me with this.
>
> Scipio Flaccus Americus
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] The Politeness Thing
From:	SkaldElf@--------
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 12:44:25 EDT

Salve,

Good luck with your Legateship, to me even being considered is one nifty
thing.

Vale,
Aeternia


Subject:	[novaroma] CONGRATS LUCI!!!!
From:	"Pompeia Cornelia" <scriba_forum@-------->
Date:	Sat, 21 Apr 2001 17:02:43 -0000

Salvete Omnes:

Many congratulations to Lucilla Cornelia Cinna on her win in the Cerealis
Festival, as chosen by the Plebian Aediles.

An excellent submission, Soror.

Bene valete,
Pompeia

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Taxes
From:	tflacco@--------
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 12:32:32 EDT

Salve,

In Rome taxes were paid by the providence's, and Land holders, not by Roman
citizens living in Rome. However, I do understand the need for revenue. The
primary war facing Roma, as I see it, at this time, is gaining citizens. By
Conquering their hearts and minds, and not their land and bodies. The
secondary and just as important war is Revenue. A taxation may reduce
populace, and therefore may be detrimental to our primary cause.

If we were to tax the providence's and not Rome as is historical, then we
have to define where Rome is. Is it the physical city, or is it the spiritual
city of Rome that lies in our hearts.

If it is the spiritual city of Rome, then we can say that only active
citizens would be land holders in Rome. Since most of Roma lives in the
providence's according to this concept, and that Active citizens both reside
in Rome and the providence's. We could say that the providential land is
taxable. We could go as far as to say that only active citizens are land
holders.

Therefore; we could Tax Land holders, and present an edict that only land
holders can vote! Which also better reflects the Rome of antiquity. I see it
going like this; (I own a home, choose to claim it as Roman territory, and
therefore I am willing to pay a tax to Rome for it. I therefore retain the
right to vote.)

The upside. Those who want to have some say must buy it. Those who have
interests but are not at this time willing to make a financial commitment,
still remain our brethren, and may still join.

More tax revenue Ideas to follow.

Scipio Flaccus Americus


Subject:	[novaroma] Introduction
From:	CW2ShaneEvans@--------
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 13:07:30 EDT

Salve Roma,
I am a new citizen to the Empire, but a long time historian. I am
currently building a Cohort of Legio XX in the Columbus, Ohio area, and look
forward to attending as many NR events as we can.

Marcus Scipio Africanus


Subject:	[novaroma] Digest No 1356
From:	"Lucius Equitius" <vze23hw7@-------->
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 13:18:50 -0400

Salvete, Quirites

I've returned home from a reenactment here in Maryland, so I'm going through
a "ton" of email. This one caught my eye, because "great minds think alike"
:-) I will also be gone next weekend to Fort Washington, MD for another
'living history' event. So if you have any items for the Censores to
consider rest assured that we will get to them, but do be patient.

From: "G. Noviodunus Ferriculus" <Gaius.Noviodunus@-------->
Subject: Re: Inclusion vs. Exclusion

Salvete omnes!

About the identity verification and taxes that has been discussed in
this thread:
My humble opinion is...
Let's see the first year of membership as sort of a trial membership...
Now during my first 2 weeks (or even not yet that much),...
So I'd say, let's vote a legs that defines this trial year...
As for the taxes, I think the senatusconsultum I've read recently is
very good...
About the amount of the tax: it was said that it should be around 12$
for wealthy countries,...
Oh, and of course, sending US money inside the US is not a big deal...
That's why I suggest people from such kind of countries should be
exempted from paying taxes,...

I know this is getting a really long letter, but I just had an idea. Why
not ask the paterfamilias/materfamilias to pay for his own familia?
>SNIP<
(I'm also a paterfamilias, so don't think I said it just to escape from
paying taxes ;-) )

Lucius Equitius: Actually, that is *my* idea! I have posted it for well over
a year the proposal that Gens (Pater/Mater) be required to register
annually. I suggested a "fee" on the area of $20-$25 per Gens per year with
each additional Gens member an additional $1-$2
How each Gens wants to work out how monies are collected would be their
concern. As the Pater/Maaterfamilias is the 'spokesperson', it would be
their responsibility take charge and see that their Gens is registered.

I too am a proud Pater of a fine family (who by the way are nearly all known
to me and each other by face to face meetings), and I would be pleased to
see this plan or something very close to it implemented. The internet is a
great tool, but it is not the be all and end all of what we aspire for Nova
Roma, *I* hope anyway.

BTW Gratulationes Legatus Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura et Mille gratias tibi
ago,
for your 'vocal support'.

Valete, Censor Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus

Ok, that would be it for today.
Valete bene,
--
Gaius Noviodunus Ferriculus
Civis Provinciae Germaniae, Regionis Superioris
Friburgii Helvetiorum


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Gods of the Underworld
From:	hadescallias@--------
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 18:32:28 -0000

and the Gods and Goddesses associated with the Underworld.
--- In novaroma@--------, hadescallias@h... wrote:
> i'm looking for the Gods of the Underworld from the pantheon of
both
> the Greeks and the Romans.
> --- In novaroma@--------, SkaldElf@a... wrote:
> > Ave,
> >
> > Are you looking for a specific pantheon? I can send you something
> off-list,
> > if you could clarify a bit more.
> >
> > Vale,
> > Aeternia


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Taxes
From:	Amulius Equitius <Maximus@-------->
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 14:23:14 -0500

Salve,
I think that this idea is leading to a more
promissing solution. Perhaps it needs to be
modified a bit, but I just might be what we need.

Vale,

Amulius Equitius Germanicus

----- Original Message -----
>From : tflacco@--------
Sent : Mon, 23 Apr 2001 12:32:32 EDT
To : novaroma@--------
Subject : Re: [novaroma] Taxes

><html><body>
<tt>
Salve, 
 
In Rome taxes were paid by the providence's, and
Landholders, not by Roman 
citizens living in Rome. However, I do understand
theneed for revenue. The 
primary war facing Roma, as I see it, at this time,
isgaining citizens. By 
Conquering their hearts and minds, and not their
landand bodies. The 
secondary and just as important war is Revenue.
Ataxation may reduce 
populace, and therefore may be detrimental to
ourprimary cause. 
 
If we were to tax the providence's and not Rome as
ishistorical, then we 
have to define where Rome is. Is it the physical
city,or is it the spiritual 
city of Rome that lies in our hearts. 
 
If it is the spiritual city of Rome, then we can
saythat only active 
citizens would be land holders in Rome. Since most
ofRoma lives in the 
providence's according to this concept, and that
Activecitizens both reside 
in Rome and the providence's. We could say that
theprovidential land is 
taxable. We could go as far as to say that only
activecitizens are land 
holders. 
 
Therefore; we could Tax Land holders, and present
anedict that only land 
holders can vote! Which also better reflects the
Romeof antiquity. I see it 
going like this; (I own a home, choose to claim it
asRoman territory, and 
therefore I am willing to pay a tax to Rome for it.
Itherefore retain the 
right to vote.) 
 
The upside. Those who want to have some say must
buyit. Those who have 
interests but are not at this time willing to make
afinancial commitment, 
still remain our brethren, and may still join. 
 
More tax revenue Ideas to follow. 
 
Scipio Flaccus Americus 
 
 
</tt>

 



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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] The Blues carry!
From:	"J. T. Sibley" <jrsibley@-------->
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 16:08:46 -0400

QFabiusMax@-------- wrote:

> << I'd always thought that the Blues' traditional opponents were the Greens,
> not the Whites. The Whites generally raced against the Reds. Or are we having a sort of all-teams Nova Roma Series? I certainly hope that
> noooobody stooped to using cursing defixiones against
> the charioteers, chariots, or horses of opposing teams......
>
>
> Salve S. Ambrosia Fulvia!
> No, you are correct. However in CIRCVS MAXIMVS

Salve! Is this a computer game? Sounds like fun!
>snip<

> In this race, the Greens never finished, one car hit the wall, one car flipped from taking a turn too fast, and one had a horse drop from
> exhaustion. The Reds had two cars flip. So the race finish went blue, blue, white, blue, white, white, red. I won both my wagers: Blue
> finished first, Blue team finished highest in standings, 1-2-4.

hehehe...and you're *sure* that you didn't plant a few defixiones at the starting line??? ;-)
Fulvia


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Office Suite
From:	"Pompeia Cornelia" <scriba_forum@-------->
Date:	Sun, 22 Apr 2001 02:48:36 -0000

Salve Gaia Flacca:

That is a very generous gesture. Ave!!

Pompeia Cornelia

>From: mansker@--------
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: novaroma@--------
>Subject: [novaroma] Re: Office Suite
>Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 21:34:05 -0000
>
>--- In novaroma@--------, LSergAust@a... wrote:
> > Salve
> >
> > You raise an interesting point. Nova Roma should not buy software
>for
> > each new magistrate. Nova Roma should buy the software that
>magistrates
> > need (such as Excel) and transfer it from previous magistrates to
>newly
> > elected magistrates.
>
>Or they can have it donated. I have two extra versions of Excel that
>I would be happy to donate to someone if they would like. These
>versions are actually the office Suites, Office 97 and Office 98.
>
>If this is something that would benefit NovaRoma, I would be happy to
>send them to a central location and let the censores figure out who
>gets them.
>
><Snipped>
> >
> >
> > We are now talking about why we must have a system of taxes. Last I
> > looked, a single copy of Excel was over US$400. To equip four
>Rogatores
> > and two Censores with it, you're looking at well over US$2000,
>which is,
> > I think, more than Nova Roma has in the treasury at this time. One
>cost
> > cutting solution would be to buy several copies of an older version
>on
> > eBay, but this still clearly illustrates why the state must have a
>system
> > of financial support beyond donations and token royalties.
>
><snipped>
>
>I have several friends who work for that Redmond company, and they
>have access to software at HUGE cost savings. I can always ask them
>to purchase copies of Office for me at about 10% of the price on the
>street.
>
>If other people also know someone who works for that Redmond company,
>they might be able to do this as well.
>
>I am not, by the way, advocating that we use only that software. I
>am presenting an option to a problem that has been explained on this
>list. I do not take offense at anyone who does not like this
>software, as I'm not to fond of it either, but must use it in my job.
>Because of having to use it in my job, I have become more used to it
>then any other software.
>
>Bene
>
>Gaia Flacca Severa
>
> >
>
>

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Taxes
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:03:56 +0200

Salve Scipio Flacce,

(snipped)

> Therefore; we could Tax Land holders, and present an edict that only land
> holders can vote! Which also better reflects the Rome of antiquity. I see
it
> going like this; (I own a home, choose to claim it as Roman territory, and
> therefore I am willing to pay a tax to Rome for it. I therefore retain the
> right to vote.)
>
> The upside. Those who want to have some say must buy it. Those who have
> interests but are not at this time willing to make a financial commitment,
> still remain our brethren, and may still join.
>
> More tax revenue Ideas to follow.
>

The downside: People who can't pay, can't vote. People who did pay, but
whose money got lost underway, can't vote. People who have a hired home,
can't vote. And so on. I thought it was a general consensus here that people
who would not pay would not lose their right to vote. This type of plan
would not benefit non-Americans and poor people, and in the long run,
wouldn't benefit Nova Roma either.

Vale bene!
Draco


Subject:	[novaroma] On the shooting of newbies
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:11:01 +0200

Salvete Quirites,

I'd like to add my own modest 2 sestertii on the topic of newbie-bashing.

I think it's true newbies get shot down by a the people who've been around here longer. But what is also true, and what they often forget, is that these people shoot each other down just as well. More often than not, productive things have been forged out of honest and sometimes harsh debates. Sometimes, the debates become aggressive and ad hominem. But I think that would be a minority of them.

Valete bene,
Sextus Apollonius Draco,
Vainqueur, ICQ# 32924725
Darkling_Crawler, Yahoo IM

"Come, fly the teeth of the wind;
share my wings" (FSOL)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] On the shooting of newbies
From:	SkaldElf@--------
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 16:17:28 EDT

Salve,

Okay, I'm about to say the most densest thing but I just have to know. The
quotes that are being posted at the end of the messages as of late. Is that
the new thing to do in Nova Roma? I'm just curious feel free to correct me.

Vale,
Aeternia


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] TAGLINES WAS: on the shooting of newbies
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@-------->
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 13:28:23 -0700

Ave Tink,

Nope many people have had tag lines before. Its not a new thing other
than some people have added them to their sig files.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla

SkaldElf@-------- wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> Okay, I'm about to say the most densest thing but I just have to know. The
> quotes that are being posted at the end of the messages as of late. Is that
> the new thing to do in Nova Roma? I'm just curious feel free to correct me.
>
> Vale,
> Aeternia
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] On the shooting of newbies
From:	Kristoffer From <kristoffer.from@-------->
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:45:23 +0200

"S. Apollonius Draco" wrote:
> I think it's true newbies get shot down by a the people who've been around
> here longer. But what is also true, and what they often forget, is that
> these people shoot each other down just as well.

Salve, Sexte Apolloni Draco.

True, some of them forget that fact. The problem is, however, those who
never get the opportunity to observe this fact at all. If you're really
new, read a few posts, respond to one, and then get flamed, you're not
likely to try again until you've realized that you've just received "the
initiation".

Don't get me wrong, after a period of adjustment, I feel quite at home
in the climate on this list. It's just that I can understand that some
newcomers might get dissuaded from participating if they're not welcomed
graciously. A little manners never hurt anyone.

Vale,

Titus Octavius Pius,
Consiliarius Thules,
Praeco Anarei Thules,
Scriba to the Curator Araneum

AKA Kristoffer From

---

Si hoc signum legere potes,
operis boni in rebus latinis alacribus
et fructuosis potiri potes.

- Not-so-famous quotation


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] On the shooting of newbies
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@-------->
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 13:43:36 -0700

Ave,

But also lets not forget most of the shooting down, at least from my
observation are coming from people who are just as new. I havent seen
any "oldtimer," who has been overly criticial.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

Kristoffer From wrote:
>
> "S. Apollonius Draco" wrote:
> > I think it's true newbies get shot down by a the people who've been around
> > here longer. But what is also true, and what they often forget, is that
> > these people shoot each other down just as well.
>
> Salve, Sexte Apolloni Draco.
>
> True, some of them forget that fact. The problem is, however, those who
> never get the opportunity to observe this fact at all. If you're really
> new, read a few posts, respond to one, and then get flamed, you're not
> likely to try again until you've realized that you've just received "the
> initiation".
>
> Don't get me wrong, after a period of adjustment, I feel quite at home
> in the climate on this list. It's just that I can understand that some
> newcomers might get dissuaded from participating if they're not welcomed
> graciously. A little manners never hurt anyone.
>
> Vale,
>
> Titus Octavius Pius,
> Consiliarius Thules,
> Praeco Anarei Thules,
> Scriba to the Curator Araneum
>
> AKA Kristoffer From
>
> ---
>
> Si hoc signum legere potes,
> operis boni in rebus latinis alacribus
> et fructuosis potiri potes.
>
> - Not-so-famous quotation
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[novaroma] Time/date stamps
From:	Kristoffer From <kristoffer.from@-------->
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:50:36 +0200

Salve, Pompeia Cornelia.

I'm not sure if I'm the only one with this problem, but your mails tend
to arrive approximately 40 hours after you send them, at least according
to my mail program. Since I sort by date, this means your mails wind up
somewhere on my list where I sometimes have a problem finding them. Is
there some explanation for this phenomena? Can something be done without
causing too much work?

Thanks for your time!

Vale,

Titus Octavius Pius,
Consiliarius Thules,
Praeco Anarei Thules,
Scriba to the Curator Araneum

AKA Kristoffer From

---

Si hoc signum legere potes,
operis boni in rebus latinis alacribus
et fructuosis potiri potes.

- Not-so-famous quotation


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] The Blues carry!
From:	QFabiusMax@--------
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 17:01:20 EDT

In a message dated 4/23/2001 12:48:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
jrsibley@-------- writes:

<< hehehe...and you're *sure* that you didn't plant a few defixiones at the
starting line??? ;-) >>
Salve.
Ok, maybe the horse of the Greens might have been drunk. But that is just a
rumor.
Vale
Q. Fabius Maximus.


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] On the shooting of newbies
From:	Kristoffer From <kristoffer.from@-------->
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 23:24:21 +0200

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix wrote:
> But also lets not forget most of the shooting down, at least from my
> observation are coming from people who are just as new. I havent seen
> any "oldtimer," who has been overly criticial.

Salve, Luci Corneli.

Aye, but then your definition of "oldtimer" might differ from that of
someone who joined the list yesterday...not many of us have been
involved in Nova Roma as long as you have...:)

But I agree, those that bring out the big guns and load up on the ammo
have usully not been active for more than half a year, allowing for some
exceptions. Still, to newcomers, they are the most active, and therefore
those whose opinions matter the most.

Vale,

Titus Octavius Pius,
Consiliarius Thules,
Praeco Anarei Thules,
Scriba to the Curator Araneum

AKA Kristoffer From

---

Si hoc signum legere potes,
operis boni in rebus latinis alacribus
et fructuosis potiri potes.

- Not-so-famous quotation


Subject:	[novaroma] Newbie Question
From:	CW2ShaneEvans@--------
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 16:51:16 EDT

Just out of curiosity, why isnt the Equestrian Class being represented in
Nova Roma?


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Newbie Question
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Jerry=20Anguston?= <gaiussentius@-------->
Date:	Tue, 24 Apr 2001 07:52:31 +1000 (EST)

Ave,

The Equestrian order is represented in NR. They are
the merchants who sell items in the Macellum. The fact
that they are not obvious is that there are not a
great deal of them.

Valete bene,

Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura
Legatus Australia Medius

--- CW2ShaneEvans@-------- wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
Just out of curiosity, why isnt the Equestrian Class
being represented in 
Nova Roma? 
</tt>

 



<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
<td align=center><font size="-1"


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Newbie Question
From:	"C. Minucius Hadrianus" <shinjikun@-------->
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 18:06:59 -0400

Salve,

It is represented, just not in quite the same way as ancient rome. The
"classes" in Nova Roma work a bit differently than they did in ancient Roma.
Every citizen belongs to a Gens or clan. The original 30 (correct me if I'm
wrong anyone...) Gentes are considered Patrician. All Gentes found
subsequently are considered Plebian. If a Patrican Gens ever goes away (all
of it's citizens resign or become inactive), an Plebian Gens may be elevated
to fill the slot. The Ordo Equites is handled very differently. To quote the
Nova Roma website:

"The equestrians are those citizens who have taken it upon themselves to
engage in commerce for the benefit of Nova Roma; not only do they enjoy the
patronage and support of the State in their efforts, but a portion of their
profits go to the treasury."

There are only two members of the Ordo Equities at this time.

Vale,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Legatus of Massachusetts
Pilus Prior Secunda Cohors
Legio VI Victrix

ICQ# 28924742

"Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum." - Vegetius

-----Original Message-----
From: CW2ShaneEvans@-------- [mailto:CW2ShaneEvans@--------]
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 4:51 PM
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: [novaroma] Newbie Question

Just out of curiosity, why isnt the Equestrian Class being represented in
Nova Roma?


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] TAGLINES WAS: on the shooting of newbies
From:	SkaldElf@--------
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 18:28:19 EDT

Ave,

Oh, okay I see now. I thought I'd ask because I wasn't sure if there was a
certain point to make or not. They are all good quotes by the way not trying
to be insulting so no one think that! Thank you Sulla for answering.

Vale,
Aeternia


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Newbie Question
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Sat, 02 Jan 1904 07:53:07 -0800

on 4/23/01 2:06 PM, C. Minucius Hadrianus at shinjikun@-------- wrote:

> Salve,
>
> It is represented, just not in quite the same way as ancient rome. The
> "classes" in Nova Roma work a bit differently than they did in ancient Roma.
> Every citizen belongs to a Gens or clan. The original 30 (correct me if I'm
> wrong anyone...) Gentes are considered Patrician. All Gentes found
> subsequently are considered Plebian. If a Patrican Gens ever goes away (all
> of it's citizens resign or become inactive), an Plebian Gens may be elevated
> to fill the slot. The Ordo Equites is handled very differently. To quote the
> Nova Roma website:
>
> "The equestrians are those citizens who have taken it upon themselves to
> engage in commerce for the benefit of Nova Roma; not only do they enjoy the
> patronage and support of the State in their efforts, but a portion of their
> profits go to the treasury."
>
> There are only two members of the Ordo Equities at this time.
>
> Vale,
>
> C. Minucius Hadrianus
> Legatus of Massachusetts
> Pilus Prior Secunda Cohors
> Legio VI Victrix
>
> ICQ# 28924742
>
> "Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum." - Vegetius
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: CW2ShaneEvans@-------- [mailto:CW2ShaneEvans@--------]
> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 4:51 PM
> To: novaroma@--------
> Subject: [novaroma] Newbie Question
>
>
> Just out of curiosity, why isnt the Equestrian Class being represented in
> Nova Roma?
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Ave,

Actually there are more than two. The Censors just have not updated the
list. Its a low priority given our other job responsbilities. However, it
will be updated when we update the Century Points.

Off the top of my head I think there are at least 4 members of the
Equestrian Order.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor of Nova Roma


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Taxes
From:	Patrick Ferguson <pvitruviusiulianus@-------->
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 15:37:42 -0700 (PDT)

Your ideas certainly do match better than any I have
seen so far. But they raise another question, how do
you determine who is and who is not an active citizen.
I think that this is very important to address.

Valete optime :->!

Patricius Vitruvius Iulianus,

Civis Novae Romae.

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Introduction
From:	Patrick Ferguson <pvitruviusiulianus@-------->
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 15:43:53 -0700 (PDT)

--- CW2ShaneEvans@-------- wrote:
> Salve Roma,
> I am a new citizen to the Empire, but a long time
> historian. I am
> currently building a Cohort of Legio XX in the
> Columbus, Ohio area, and look
> forward to attending as many NR events as we can.
>
> Marcus Scipio Africanus
>

Welcome Marci Scipio Africani! I, Patricius Vitruvius
Iulianus, give you warm greetings and good hopes!
However I feel that I should correct you in that Nova
Roma is a republic, not an empire.

Vale optime :->!

Patricius Vitruvius Iulianus,

Civis Novae Romae.

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Subject:	[novaroma] Open Call
From:	SkaldElf@--------
Date:	Mon, 23 Apr 2001 19:29:37 EDT

Salvete,

oping the Curatrix will not too be angry. In Honor of William Shakespeare's
birthday the Sodalitas Musarum is having a showcase of his work. So here's
the deal if anyone wants to see his work showcased they can submit it
themselves or via myself. It can be a Play, Non-Roman or Roman, Sonnet,
Shakspearean excerpt, it matters not! The membership settings have even been
changed for this event (meaning one can join without moderator approval).
Ending of this event will be tommorow 6 a.m. Roman time. My thanks and
gratitude to those who have already submitted. My thanks to the Curatrix if
I'm allowed to promote this event on this particular list. For the new
citizens of Nova Roma I shall add an address to the Sodalitas Musaurum list.

http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/ForTheMuses

Avete,
Aeternia Iulia Caesaria
Curatrix Sermonis of the
Sodalitas Musarum