Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Taxes and non-US countries
From:	"Marcus Cassius Julianus" <cassius622@-------->
Date:	Fri, 27 Apr 2001 01:19:39 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@p...>
wrote:

> A thing many of the citizen from America seem to ignore is that it
is really °difficult° to send money from other continents to
America,
because of the following reasons and objections:
>
> 1. As has been argued before, sometimes the cost to send the money
is higher than the actual amount you're sending.
> 2. Some provinciae consist of multiple macronations, so how would
you arrange the currency problem?
> 4. It takes a while before the money reaches the US, and underway
many things can happen: it can get lost, and so on.

Cassius respondit:

All of the above difficulties have already been solved by Nova Roma
registering with the "Pay Pal" service. Anyone with internet access,
no matter what their macronation or local currency, can now reach the
central Treasury of Nova Roma without delay or currency exchange
fees - right on the frontpage of the Nova Roma website. This also,
(in at least my own opinion) eliminates any need for Provincial
Praetors to be shouldered with the burden of collecting and being
responsible for public funds.


>(placed out of order for response)
>Draco:
> 3. Why should we pay for American expenses? What's our direct
benefit?

Cassius respondit:
Because the treasury is for use by ALL of Nova Roma, not
just "American Nova Roma". Nova Roma has been working since it's
founding to be a true worldwide community. There is no point in
believing (or trying to foster a belief) that money will only be used
in America. The reverse is in fact the case... the NR Treasury is
more likely to get the best "bang for the buck" in countries outside
the US where it can make a real difference.

If anything, the United States will probably end up being the "cash
cow" that funds overseas projects. For instance, all ancient Roman
sites and archaeological funds/projects are outside the US. There
have been various thoughts on NR involvement in such things. In fact,
right now there is discussion on setting up a fund to help
archaeological sites in Britain that are in crisis because of the
hoof and mouth epidemic. It is very likely Nova Roma will soon be
setting up a fund to help sites such as Vindolanda in Northumbria.

>Draco:
> Censor Sulla argues against provincial treasuries that their is a
large possibility of corruption, as has occurred in Britannia. But
nothing tells me this will not happen in America, when I cannot
excercise control over my money. So to speak, if a local governor
plays tricks on me, I can sue him or go up to him personally, but I
can't do the same if my money is in America.

Cassius respondit:
Both scenarios above are reasons why taxes and donations should go to
the central treasury, which is a corporate account overseen by more
than one officer of the organization - in the country where Nova Roma
is a legal entity and has greater legal rights and options to defend
itself.

> Draco:
> Americani, please think about the arguments above: 398 citizens are
not from North America, and will suffer from these difficulties
and/or will pose similar questions like the ones above. It doesn't
matter whether those 398 people are active or not, they're still
members of NR. And I don't think it's a coincidence the most moderate
proposals came from Europe so far; that's because these questions
live among all of us.

Cassius respondit:
My hope is that most Citizens of Nova Roma, no matter what nation
they reside in, would like to see Nova Roma grow into a large and
influential community in which we all can share. That can't happen if
Nova Roma is destitute. Without money it will be impossible for Nova
Roma to fund local involvement around the world, buy land,
participate in archaeological/historical projects, or build any sort
of infrastructure away from the Internet.

> Draco:
> Another thing: if people °cannot° pay, don't downclass them
(or
take a look at Caeso Fabius' plan, which was really good, in my
opinion). The taxation as currently proposed will create a real
social division if leges or models like the ones proposed will become
legislated. No rewards, no punishments. If you believe in true
virtues, then giving is its own reward; don't expect extra advantages
in return, or others to be punished because they don't do the same as
you do. Why should they, anyway?

Cassius respondit:

I honestly don't see why two different levels of involement are
talked of as being a "punishment". I personally think it's an added
level of priviledge. It allows people the freedom of being a part of
a community and not being "expected or forced" to bear responsibility
if they don't want to.

Most serious organizations have a "two tier" structure... either
you're a member and pay dues, or you're not a member at all. ;) I
can think of a dozen groups I'd like to be at least nominally a part
of, except I can't afford the dues for all of them. Nova Roma, by
instituting one of it's two tier ideas (such as a poll tax)could
still offer most of the benefits of Citizenship for free. I somehow
can't personally see that as being a bad thing.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Consul

Subject:	[novaroma] Nova Britannia Trip!!!
From:	"C. Minucius Hadrianus" <shinjikun@-------->
Date:	Thu, 26 Apr 2001 21:45:15 -0400

Salvete omnes!

I just wanted to put out the final plans for this Saturday. We will be
meeting at 11:30, Saturday the 28th at the main entrance of the Boston
Museum of Fine Arts. Once everyone is accounted for, we'll head inside for
lunch at one of the restaurants in the museum. After that on to the
exhibits! The Museum's website is at www.mfa.org and has directions,
admission prices, parking info etc. If anyone has any questions or issues
please let me know as soon as possible. Also, I'd like (one last time) for
everyone who plans on coming to let me know by Friday night. That way we
don't wait around for people who aren't coming, or go in with out some one
who is! Thanks, and I'll see you all there!

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Legatus of Massachusetts
ICQ# 28924742

"Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum." - Vegetius




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Taxes and non-US countries
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Thu, 26 Apr 2001 18:49:24 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete omnes; et salve, Marce Cassie Iuliane et S. Apollonie Draco.

--- Marcus Cassius Julianus <cassius622@--------> wrote:
> --- In novaroma@--------, "S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@p...>
> wrote:
>
> > A thing many of the citizen from America seem to ignore is that it
> is really °difficult° to send money from other continents to
> America,
> because of the following reasons and objections:
> >
> > 1. As has been argued before, sometimes the cost to send the money
> is higher than the actual amount you're sending.
> > 2. Some provinciae consist of multiple macronations, so how would
> you arrange the currency problem?
> > 4. It takes a while before the money reaches the US, and underway
> many things can happen: it can get lost, and so on.
>
> Cassius respondit:
>
> All of the above difficulties have already been solved by Nova Roma
> registering with the "Pay Pal" service. Anyone with internet access,
> no matter what their macronation or local currency, can now reach the
>
> central Treasury of Nova Roma without delay or currency exchange
> fees - right on the frontpage of the Nova Roma website. This also,
> (in at least my own opinion) eliminates any need for Provincial
> Praetors to be shouldered with the burden of collecting and being
> responsible for public funds.

Please forgive me if I seem too insistent, but what about those who do
not have a credit card? Should we be not allowed to contribute?


Next one is for Draco:

> > Draco:
> > Another thing: if people °cannot° pay, don't downclass them
> (or
> take a look at Caeso Fabius' plan, which was really good, in my
> opinion). The taxation as currently proposed will create a real
> social division if leges or models like the ones proposed will become
>
> legislated. No rewards, no punishments. If you believe in true
> virtues, then giving is its own reward; don't expect extra advantages
>
> in return, or others to be punished because they don't do the same as
>
> you do. Why should they, anyway?
>

Sorry, Draco. I have revised Caeso Fabius Quintilianus' plan (which I
fully support) and it does include downclassing for non-payers (albeit
it also includes a provincial based taxation system similar to the one
you speak for). Please, check it out if you don't believe me.

BTW, Draco. What has been done with the European meeting we talked
about a few weeks ago? I have been pretty busy with the organization of
Hispania, and I could have missed something.



=====
Bene Valete!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Civis romanus.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Subject:	[novaroma] Nova Roma charitable appeal
From:	pjane@--------
Date:	Fri, 27 Apr 2001 02:02:27 -0000

Greetings!

I come before you to ask your help in a charitable project of Nova
Roma. As you may know, it is part of our mission to encourage awareness
of Roman history and preservation of Roman sites.

Recently, it has come to our attention that Vindolanda, a fruitful and
fascinating Roman site in the north of Britain, has become endangered
by the foot-and-mouth scare, which has drastically reduced the tourism
on which the site depends. Unlike many British sites, Vindolanda
receives no government funding, and relies on visitors and grant monies
to continue preservation and excavation of the Roman fort and village.

Please visit this Web page

http://www.novaroma.org/aerarium_saturni/vindolanda/

to find out more, including how to donate to NR's Vindolanda Relief
Fund. The button at the bottom of the page will allow you to donate
immediately by credit card via PayPal; you may also send a check or
money order. All funds received for this appeal will go directly to the
Vindolanda Charitable Trust.

I encourage you to give what you can to help sustain this historic and
important site.

Patricia Cassia
Quaestor and Senator

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Taxes and non-US countries
From:	margali <margali@-------->
Date:	Thu, 26 Apr 2001 22:32:17 -0400

Well, just a wild idea on getting funds over to the US.

I regularly participate in a 'cookie exchange' program with a
friend who emigrated to Perth this past summer. She likes Captain
Morgan's spiced rum, which is not available over there, and I
like tim-tams, which are not available over here. I send her a
bottle, and she sends me lots of cookies. What if I, as a person
who happens to like odd things from europe want something like a
small tin of the truffle shavings I used to pick up in France.
There is a French NRoman who wants to pay taxes. We figure out
what the amount of shipping on a tin is, and the cost of the tin
just so happen to make the right amount of money. The person in
France ships me the tin of truffle shavings, and in exchange for
this tin, I pay the same amount of the cost of the item and the
shipping in the name of the NRoman as taxes. No money actually
has to change hands, I get my truffle shavings and the tax is
paid. Sort of like a barter system [or like a person paying taxes
'in kind' that I just happen to exchange for money. We could get
each of the provincial tax collectors to gather their taxes and
do something like this either for the whole of the taxes, or on
an individual basis.

-margali
Hyapatia Asinia
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Quote Starts Here:
> All of the above difficulties have already been solved by Nova
Roma
> registering with the "Pay Pal" service. Anyone with internet
access,
> no matter what their macronation or local currency, can now
reach the
>
> central Treasury of Nova Roma without delay or currency
exchange
> fees - right on the frontpage of the Nova Roma website. This
also,
> (in at least my own opinion) eliminates any need for Provincial

> Praetors to be shouldered with the burden of collecting and
being
> responsible for public funds.

Please forgive me if I seem too insistent, but what about those
who do
not have a credit card? Should we be not allowed to contribute?

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Taxes and non-US countries
From:	"Marcus Cassius Julianus" <cassius622@-------->
Date:	Fri, 27 Apr 2001 02:40:05 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> wrote:
> > Cassius respondit:
> >
> > All of the above difficulties have already been solved by Nova
Roma registering with the "Pay Pal" service. Anyone with internet
access, no matter what their macronation or local currency, can now
reach the central Treasury of Nova Roma without delay or currency
exchange fees - right on the frontpage of the Nova Roma website. This
also, (in at least my own opinion) eliminates any need for Provincial
> > Praetors to be shouldered with the burden of collecting and being
> > responsible for public funds.

Salix:
> Please forgive me if I seem too insistent, but what about those who
do not have a credit card? Should we be not allowed to contribute?

Cassius respondit:
That does add a level of complexity in some cases, but nothing in
comparison to the wholesale difficulty of exchanging funds Nova Roma
faced before registering with Pay Pal.

First, I have a question of my own. Does your country have
ATM/Banking debit cards? I don't own a credit card here in the US,
but my bank provides me with a debit card that can be used like a
credit card. The difference is that the funds for it come out of my
checking account, rather than from a line of credit. I'm able to buy
stuff or donate through Pay Pal as well as anyone, even without a
true "Visa" card.

However, if such things are not available everywhere, it might well
be necessary to get the assistance of another Citizen in your
provincia, or your Praetor. If you could mail a local magistrate a
check or money order, and they could pass on the funds with a credit
card, would this solve the problem? If not, there are probably other
methods around this problem, such as American Express travelers
checks...

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Consul

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Electronic Funds Transfers
From:	lsicinius@--------
Date:	Fri, 27 Apr 2001 04:25:19 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> wrote:
> Salvete omnes; et salve, Sicinie.
>
> Thank you for the information. But my question is: how much will it
> cost? Wouldn't it be cheaper to put together all the taxes in the
> Province and then send them together?
>
DISCLAIMER - I Work for the Company I am about to discuss. My
Viewpoint is biased. I Strongly urge you to check out companies that
compete with First Data and it's Western Union Division to ensure that
Nova Roma recives the best deal on this type of service.

That depends on which option Nova Roma selects. Some are percentage
based, some are per fee based.

Since Nova Roma allready has PayPal to handle credit and debit cards,
all that's really needed is a means to send cash. Our Western Union
division recently launched Paycash as an alternitive to credit cards
for internet based companies. For a small fee you could make an
electronic transfer from any of the 80,000 Western Union agents in the
world to Nova Roma. The fee for transfers within the US is US$2.00.
The WU site has a demo to show how Paycash works and the demo fee for
a US$500.00 transfer from Canada is US$5.00 or 1%. I Don't know if
this fee holds for other Macronations or smaller ammounts. Western
Union Agents can also handle the Currency conversion from local funds
to US Dollars. I don't know the cost of this aditional service. See
http://www.westernunionpaycash.com/ for details.

I work for the Point of Sale division, not Western Union, and my job
is to provide POS services for one of our customers (Ryder) I have
nothing to do with the types of services we offer, or the fees we
charge, so someone from Western Union is more qulified than I am to
comment on this.

I think Paycash would be an excellent means to collect taxes and
donations, but I have a conflict of intrest in this matter, so I will
leave it up to others to check out ALL the options and decide which
services would best suit Nova Roma's needs.

Vale
L. Sicinius Drusus
L. Sicinius Drusus

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Taxes and non-US countries
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Fri, 27 Apr 2001 10:38:22 +0200

Salve, Consul Iuliane,

> > 1. As has been argued before, sometimes the cost to send the money
> is higher than the actual amount you're sending.
> > 2. Some provinciae consist of multiple macronations, so how would
> you arrange the currency problem?
> > 4. It takes a while before the money reaches the US, and underway
> many things can happen: it can get lost, and so on.
>
> Cassius respondit:
>
> All of the above difficulties have already been solved by Nova Roma
> registering with the "Pay Pal" service. Anyone with internet access,
> no matter what their macronation or local currency, can now reach the
> central Treasury of Nova Roma without delay or currency exchange
> fees - right on the frontpage of the Nova Roma website. This also,
> (in at least my own opinion) eliminates any need for Provincial
> Praetors to be shouldered with the burden of collecting and being
> responsible for public funds.
>

I suppose you got me more convinced now, together with your argumentation
against Gnaeus Salix' objections. I still wonder though, if an exception can
be made for those who don't own a credit card or a debit card (people in
some southern or eastern European countries, for example, or people from
Asia).

> >(placed out of order for response)
> >Draco:
> > 3. Why should we pay for American expenses? What's our direct
> benefit?
>
> Cassius respondit:
> Because the treasury is for use by ALL of Nova Roma, not
> just "American Nova Roma". Nova Roma has been working since it's
> founding to be a true worldwide community. There is no point in
> believing (or trying to foster a belief) that money will only be used
> in America. The reverse is in fact the case... the NR Treasury is
> more likely to get the best "bang for the buck" in countries outside
> the US where it can make a real difference.
>
> If anything, the United States will probably end up being the "cash
> cow" that funds overseas projects. For instance, all ancient Roman
> sites and archaeological funds/projects are outside the US. There
> have been various thoughts on NR involvement in such things. In fact,
> right now there is discussion on setting up a fund to help
> archaeological sites in Britain that are in crisis because of the
> hoof and mouth epidemic. It is very likely Nova Roma will soon be
> setting up a fund to help sites such as Vindolanda in Northumbria.
>

As I said in response to your colleague, I can do nothing but agree with
this. The sponsoring fund is a very good idea. I suppose what first
terrified me a bit was that the expenses our magistrates make (id est phone
calls and all) merely benefit US citizens rather than the rest of us. But
here you make some valid points. Thanks for clarifying.

> >Draco:
> > Censor Sulla argues against provincial treasuries that their is a
> large possibility of corruption, as has occurred in Britannia. But
> nothing tells me this will not happen in America, when I cannot
> excercise control over my money. So to speak, if a local governor
> plays tricks on me, I can sue him or go up to him personally, but I
> can't do the same if my money is in America.
>
> Cassius respondit:
> Both scenarios above are reasons why taxes and donations should go to
> the central treasury, which is a corporate account overseen by more
> than one officer of the organization - in the country where Nova Roma
> is a legal entity and has greater legal rights and options to defend
> itself.
>

That is true. My initial proposal wasn't about provincial treasuries, by the
way, but continental ones (just for clarification). On a sidenote: some
Quaestores come from Europe; how will they be able to oversee the treasury?

(snipped)

> > Another thing: if people °cannot° pay, don't downclass them
> (or
> take a look at Caeso Fabius' plan, which was really good, in my
> opinion). The taxation as currently proposed will create a real
> social division if leges or models like the ones proposed will become
> legislated. No rewards, no punishments. If you believe in true
> virtues, then giving is its own reward; don't expect extra advantages
> in return, or others to be punished because they don't do the same as
> you do. Why should they, anyway?
>
> Cassius respondit:
>
> I honestly don't see why two different levels of involement are
> talked of as being a "punishment". I personally think it's an added
> level of priviledge. It allows people the freedom of being a part of
> a community and not being "expected or forced" to bear responsibility
> if they don't want to.
>
> Most serious organizations have a "two tier" structure... either
> you're a member and pay dues, or you're not a member at all. ;) I
> can think of a dozen groups I'd like to be at least nominally a part
> of, except I can't afford the dues for all of them. Nova Roma, by
> instituting one of it's two tier ideas (such as a poll tax)could
> still offer most of the benefits of Citizenship for free. I somehow
> can't personally see that as being a bad thing.
>

I suppose I could live with people who °don't want to° pay being put in the
5th century. But exceptions should me made for those who simply °can't° pay,
I think.


Vale bene!
Draco

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Taxes and non-US countries
From:	Kristoffer From <kristoffer.from@-------->
Date:	Fri, 27 Apr 2001 10:45:02 +0200

Marcus Cassius Julianus wrote:
> However, if such things are not available everywhere, it might well
> be necessary to get the assistance of another Citizen in your
> provincia, or your Praetor. If you could mail a local magistrate a
> check or money order, and they could pass on the funds with a credit
> card, would this solve the problem? If not, there are probably other
> methods around this problem, such as American Express travelers
> checks...

Salve, Marce Cassi Juliane.

Mail cash to a local magistrate...aren't we then back to the provincial
treasuries everyone seemed dead set against? What if there is no local
magistrate, or at least none with a suitable credit card? And regarding
AmEx, I don't know about other countries, but I've never even seen one
of their traveller's checks in Sweden, much less know how I'd go about
getting my hands on one.

I will solve the problem for myself through acquiring a Visa with no
available credit, since I'm not eligible for credit, being a student and
all. I don't have one at the moment, but for me, at least, this is
merely an inconvenience. I can, however, understand that there are
others who might have some problem with this.

Anyhow, as I've been told repeatedly, isn't his a matter of how the
taxes will be implemented, and not what will happen if you don't pay,
which is what the current proposal is all about? Let's save this
particular debate for a later time, when we've decided once and for all
upon the consequences of not paying taxes. I will make a statement in
that discussion shortly, to clarify a few of my earlier points.

Vale,

Titus Octavius Pius,
Consiliarius Thules,
Praeco Anarei Thules,
Scriba to the Curator Araneum

AKA Kristoffer From

---

Si hoc signum legere potes,
operis boni in rebus latinis alacribus
et fructuosis potiri potes.

- Not-so-famous quotation

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Taxes and non-US countries/RANT ALERT
From:	margali <margali@-------->
Date:	Fri, 27 Apr 2001 09:26:10 -0400

Why is everybody making this so bloody complicated. Unless you
live in a small village 300 miles away from Ulan Bator and there
is no money used, barter only and the nearest bank is 200 miles
away, there WILL BE A WAY TO EFT money.

Do you have a check handy? Look at the numbers on it. The first
batch of digits are called a routing number for a reason. It
tells the international banking industry what bank the check is
drawn upon. Using the routing numbers, you can transfer money to
the account number found at that routing number. I am sure that
everybody knows somebody in their town with a bank account. Ask
them to perform the EFT for you. Unless they are a total slug,
they will probably agree if asked politely. I really think that
since NR is on computer, then the people of NR have access to
reasonable modern technology.

Can we NOW end the stupider parts of this discussion and get back
to more sensible discussions. Have we decided how much the taxes
are going to be? Have we decided of we are going to have a
provincial tax and an Imperial tax? How much are we going to
sink into an archeological dig and can us citizens get grants for
performing research?
--
margali
Hyapatia Asinia
apologies for the shouting. I am getting way tired of some of the
senseless arguments.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Quote Starts Here:
Lumping all of the discussions of tax transferal problems into
one rant.

Subject:	[novaroma] >>Rant Alert<<
From:	ksterne@--------
Date:	Fri, 27 Apr 2001 16:10:14 -0000

Salvete,

ahahahahahahahah!!!

Valete,
Gaius Popillius Laenas
America Austrorinetalis

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Misperceptions (was "the survey" and "non-US" theme)
From:	lsicinius@--------
Date:	Fri, 27 Apr 2001 16:14:01 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@p...>
wrote:
SNIP
> I'm suspicious of financial control in the "capital" of Nova Roma,
if you
> want me to put it this way, that is across the Atlantic. You think
I'm
> paranoid, but if embezzlement can happen in Britannia (and NR can't
do a
> thing about it) it can happen across the ocean as well (without the
foreign
> people being able to do something about it). It has nothing to do
with
> "us-vs-them".
>

Salvete,

Under the US Legal system any member of Nova Roma, including those
who aren't US citizens, has standing before the courts, and can bring
Cival Charges in the event of embezzlement. Also consider the nature
of Americans. We are the most sue happy Macronation on earth! If
someone made off with the treasury at least a couple of dozen
Americans would run to thier lawyer to file a suit. When there are
that many lawsuits that are connected they are combined into a class
action lawsuit. Once a class action suit is filed, then an
annoucement is made that ANY injured party (Any Nova Roman) can join
the suit. All you would have to do to become a plaintif in the class
action suit is write a letter to the lawyer that's handling it.

Drusus
(Who is NOT a lawyer)

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Misperceptions (was "the survey" and "non-US" theme)
From:	margali <margali@-------->
Date:	Fri, 27 Apr 2001 14:24:58 -0400

;-)
They can get in line behind me
margali
Hyapatia Asinia
[and a paralegal, so at least I can draft a memo and get a lawyer
interested in handling the case!]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Quote Starts Here:
Also consider the nature of Americans. We are the most sue happy
Macronation on earth! If
someone made off with the treasury at least a couple of dozen
Americans would run to their lawyer to file a suit.
Drusus
(Who is NOT a lawyer)

Subject:	[novaroma] Civii America Boreoccidentalis Minore *READ*
From:	"william wheeler" <holyconelia@-------->
Date:	Fri, 27 Apr 2001 19:35:51 -0000

salvete Quiritibus;

This is a letter to inform you of some happenings in our province.
Some of you may already be aware of these changes -some may
not. As we are in the process of rebuilding the province, this letter
is being sent specifically to confirm the following:

1-That you are still a currently registered and active citizen.

2-That your name, address, e-mail and phone contact information
is still the same as it was when you were granted citizenship

3-Your goals and projected level of involvement in provincial
activities.

As far as provincial structure, I am your legatus: Marcus Cornelius Felix.
I
report directly to Lucius Mauricius Procopious and am working with him to
ensure
that we can fully understand everyone's interests, level of involvement and
commitment to their citizenship.

Note that this e-mail is a 'blind' list, in that I have no
wish to put anyone on the spot. In fact, it is my sincere hope that everyone
on
our citizenship roster will respond to this letter and notify me of your
status.
Please be aware that we are slowly gathering information from the Censores,
but
this is a time-consuming process and your assistance would be *greatly*
appreciated. Also, note
that for most of you on this list, we quite simply are unaware
if you still exist or have any interest in participation
here. That's largely the reason behind this e-mail. Once
we get everyone confirmed, then I will be sharing my full
macronational contact information with each respondent
so that we may get our task of province building well
under way.

So, with that in mind, please reply to me directly and
privately in e-mail with the following information:

1-Your full Roman Name
2-Your current e-mail address
3-Your current preferred contact telephone number
4-Your current mailing address
5-Degree (if any) of interest in provincial gatherings,
holding office, cultural interests, etc.
6-Whether or not you are subscribed to the provincial
mailing list: ambor_waves@--------
7-Do you know of any cives in the province that
require any non-electronic means of contact such
as phone or post? If so, please provide a means
of contacting these individuals.

Please forgive the intrusion on your time. Any and
all help in helping us update our provincial records
would be most appreciated. As always -any questions,
please do not hesitate to ask.

Marcus Cornelius Felix
Pontitff
Legate America Boreoccidentalis Minore
Sacerdos Primus America Boreoccidentalis

wuffa@--------

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Subject:	[novaroma] AMERICA MEDIOCCIDENTALIS SUPERIOR EDICTA NUMBER ONE
From:	VMoeller@--------
Date:	Fri, 27 Apr 2001 20:01:16 -0000

APPOINTMENT OF LEGATUS MILITUM FOR PROVINCIA AMERICA MEDIOCCIDENTALIS
SUPERIOR

27 April, 2754 auc

Salvete:

I, Secunda Cornelia Valeria, Propraetrix America Medioccidentalis
Superior, issue the following Edicta to announce the appointment of
Marcus Severus Falco Corvo as Legatus Militum for the Provincia of
America Medioccidentalis Superior. He will also act as the Legate in
the area of Missouri serving the interests of Nova Roma and this
Provincia, until such time as I deem it appropriate to appoint other
authority.

Under my authority his specific duties will include, yet are not
limited to the following:

--To act as the central authority for all matters military and will
supervise the recruitment efforts of the province.

--He will offer plans for the development of an ALA of Cavalry to
represent the both the Province and Nova Roma.

--He will establish liaison, and a command and control relationship
with the commanders of military organizations in other Provinciae.

--He will report monthly on recruitment and organization efforts in
the province.

--He will report monthly on the organization of the area of Missouri.

I wish to thank Marcus Severus Falco Corvo for his service to Nova
Roma and this Provincia. In him I find a capable, honorable, and
dedicated servant to our Res Publica.

Valete,

Secunda Cornelia Valeria,
Propraetrix America Medioccidentalis Superior

"Roma Aeterna"

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] >>Rant Alert<<
From:	SkaldElf@--------
Date:	Fri, 27 Apr 2001 16:22:45 EDT

Are you okay?

Aeternia

Subject:	[novaroma] Missing Citizens -Provincial Census
From:	"Oppius Flaccus Severus" <oppiusflaccus@-------->
Date:	Fri, 27 Apr 2001 13:29:07 -0700

Salvete Quiritibus;

The following citizens have come up missing in
the America Boreoccidentalis Provincial Census.
If anyone knows the whereabouts of any of the
citizens on the list below, please have them
contact me directly as soon as possible.

------------------------------
Titus Asinius Pollio
Gnaea Caprenia Gallia
Tiberius Equitius Caecus
Claudia Lupercia Antonia
Gaius Pontius Corvus
--------------------------------

Gratias multas!
Oppius Flaccus Severus, Legatus America Boreoccidentalis Major

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Taxes and non-US countries
From:	"Teleri ferch Nyfain" <rckovak@-------->
Date:	Fri, 27 Apr 2001 17:46:16 -0400

(snipped)
<<What about those of us who don't have a credit card? Although I'm
willing to pay taxes, I can't do it through Pay Pal. I guess that many
of our citizens (especially students) have the same problem.


=====
Bene Valete!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Civis romanus.>>


Salve,
I have a Pay Pal account which is attached to my bank account, which means I
don't need a credit card to use Pay Pal. If you go to the main Pay Pal
site, they give info on how to do this

Vale bene,
Helena Galeria

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Taxes and non-US countries
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Fri, 27 Apr 2001 14:49:21 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete omnes; et salve, Cassie Iuliane.

--- Marcus Cassius Julianus <cassius622@--------> wrote:
> --- In novaroma@--------, Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> wrote:
> > > Cassius respondit:
> > >
> > > All of the above difficulties have already been solved by Nova
> Roma registering with the "Pay Pal" service. Anyone with internet
> access, no matter what their macronation or local currency, can now
> reach the central Treasury of Nova Roma without delay or currency
> exchange fees - right on the frontpage of the Nova Roma website. This
>
> also, (in at least my own opinion) eliminates any need for Provincial
>
> > > Praetors to be shouldered with the burden of collecting and being
>
> > > responsible for public funds.
>
> Salix:
> > Please forgive me if I seem too insistent, but what about those who
>
> do not have a credit card? Should we be not allowed to contribute?
>
> Cassius respondit:
> That does add a level of complexity in some cases, but nothing in
> comparison to the wholesale difficulty of exchanging funds Nova Roma
> faced before registering with Pay Pal.
>
> First, I have a question of my own. Does your country have
> ATM/Banking debit cards? I don't own a credit card here in the US,
> but my bank provides me with a debit card that can be used like a
> credit card. The difference is that the funds for it come out of my
> checking account, rather than from a line of credit. I'm able to buy
> stuff or donate through Pay Pal as well as anyone, even without a
> true "Visa" card.

Yes, we have Automated Teller Machines and debit cards in Spain. We
also have electric light, gasoline and even some of those new big metal
birds... what's their name? Ah, yes. Airplanes :-).

It's probably all my fault for incorrectly formulating my question.
Let's try it again: What if I don't have a credit or debit card, or
even a bank account? But don't answer yet. As they say, see below :-).

>
> However, if such things are not available everywhere, it might well
> be necessary to get the assistance of another Citizen in your
> provincia, or your Praetor. If you could mail a local magistrate a
> check or money order, and they could pass on the funds with a credit
> card, would this solve the problem? If not, there are probably other
> methods around this problem, such as American Express travelers
> checks...

Well, I think this is the obvious solution. To have a "provincial
account" to which citizens can pay taxes and then send them together
through a Visa or debit card. But then, we are having money in the
hands of provincial governments, aren't we?

If you think that every citizen should be allowed his/her metod of
payment, either directly through PayPal or through a provincial bank
account, then I completely agree with you.

But let me please ask just another annoying question. Is there perhaps
some kind of payment due to using either PayPal or a credit/debit card
to pay? Wouldn't it be cheaper (for citizens and for Nova Roma) to put
together all the taxes in a Province and then send them in a single
transfer?


=====
Bene Valete!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Civis romanus.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Electronic Funds Transfers
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Fri, 27 Apr 2001 14:54:05 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete omnes; et salve, Sicinie.

Thank you for the information. Now I would like to invite those
magistrates who are legally empowered to handle this matter to explore
all the different options, and to choose the best one both for Nova
Roma and her citizens.




=====
Bene Valete!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Civis romanus.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Taxes and non-US countries
From:	"Marcus Cassius Julianus" <cassius622@-------->
Date:	Fri, 27 Apr 2001 23:56:29 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, Kristoffer From <kristoffer.from@t...> wrote:
> Salve, Marce Cassi Juliane.
> Mail cash to a local magistrate...aren't we then back to the
provincial treasuries everyone seemed dead set against? What if there
is no local magistrate, or at least none with a suitable credit
card? And regarding AmEx, I don't know about other countries, but
I've never even seen one of their traveller's checks in Sweden, much
less know how I'd go about getting my hands on one.

Cassius respondit:
My guess is that there will be *very few* Citizens who cannot
electronically transfer money in some manner from a local bank. I
honestly don't know what options are available to you in Sweden - you
yourself are in a better position to find that out than I am! ;)

When all is said and done, I'd be shocked if we have as many as ten
citizens who have *no* option to tranfer funds by some electronic
means. I mentioned the Praetors only as a last resort... if this had
to be done it would be more the case of one Citizen helping out
another than a Praetor managing any kind of local "treasury".

It is my belief that there are American Express checks available in
all European countries. I certainly had no trouble obtaining/cashing
them in Britain when I was there last. Perhaps you've just never
noticed them before because you've never had occasion to need them?
Again, an inquiry at a local bank would provide you with info that I
quite frankly cannot supply from halfway across the world.

>
> I will solve the problem for myself through acquiring a Visa with no
> available credit, since I'm not eligible for credit, being a
student and all. I don't have one at the moment, but for me, at
least, this is merely an inconvenience. I can, however, understand
that there are others who might have some problem with this.

Cassius respondit:
If you noticed my prior post, I also do not own any credit cards
whatever. However, I do have a "debit card" from my bank that is
hooked into the Visa system. I can transfer funds like a credit card,
but the money comes out of my bank account, and I can't overspend. Do
they have such a thing in Sweden?


Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Consul