| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] Upcoming CPoT Vote |
| From: |
"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 May 2001 19:59:15 -0400 |
|
Salve,
>>The only thing remaining for the main list, would be some sort of
response from the legislating official in question. Consul Vedius, any
thoughts on my proposed modification of your lex? In private, if you'd
like to keep it off the main list?>>
The Consul is currently unavailable online due to some pretty hideous e-mail
problems. :/ He has been watching the discussion and will surely comment
as soon as he is once again able to send e-mail.
Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Sing songs (was Moderated Boys.......) |
| From: |
Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 May 2001 17:32:15 -0700 (PDT) |
|
> (((((((((((Bravo!!! Encore! Encore!))))))))))))
> .......Play it again, Sal......!! :)
You liked it, didn't you? Well, I have another sweet tune for your ears
(I seem to be inspired by the Muses, tonight) :-P.
There's a long way to be a full Nation
There's a long way to go
There's a long way to be a full Nation
Where I may place my home
Goodbye Macronation, farewell biggest States
There's a long long way to be a full Nation
But my heart's already there
Hope you all like it :-).
=====
Bene Valete!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Civis romanus.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Oh Caius Boy (was Re: Moderated Boys.......) |
| From: |
Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 May 2001 17:46:22 -0700 (PDT) |
|
> (((((((((((Bravo!!! Encore! Encore!))))))))))))
> .......Play it again, Sal......!! :)
Aaaand, YESSS! Another beautiful sing-song:
Oh Caius boy, the horns, the horns are calling
>From hill to hill, and down the Forum side
Republic's gone, and all the freedom's dying
'Tis you 'tis you, must rule and I must bide.
But come ye back, when Senate's in the Curia
Or when a mob will try to kill Nero
'Tis I'll be here, in tiranny or in shadow
Oh Caius boy, oh Caius boy, I loath you so.
But if you come when Nero is still playing
And I am deaf, as deaf I'll surely be
You'll have to burn the place where I am living
And kneel and say: "You know, I'd told to you"
And I will hear, though deaf Nero had left me
And all my dreams will be for Republique*
If you don't fail to kill the one who still annoys me
I'll live in peace until the Flavians come to me
I'll live in peace until the Flavians come toooo meeee
*(poetical licence)
I hope you enjoy this little piece of political satyre. I little bit
out of date, though :-P.
=====
Bene Valete!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Civis romanus.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Oh Caius Boy |
| From: |
Piparskeggr Ullarsson <catamount_grange@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 03 May 2001 19:56:41 -0500 |
|
Ave Gnæus Salix,
Gnaeus Salix Astur wrote:
>
> Aaaand, YESSS! Another beautiful sing-song:
>
> Oh Caius boy, (excision)
>
This was genuinely touching, and amusing, to me!
(And I really loathe "Danny Boy.")
Thank you.
--
===========================================
In Amicus sub Fidelis, Benedicte Omnes!
- Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
Cives, Paterfamilias Gens Ulleria
Quæstor, Legate, Dominus Sodalis
My homestead
http://www.geocities.com/piparskegg/index.html
Sodalis pro Coqueror et Coquus
http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Dacian Wars Question |
| From: |
Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 May 2001 17:49:09 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Salvete omnes!
--- "Stephen F. Phenow" <QFabiusMax@--------> wrote:
> In fact, I read somewhere that Decebalus 'tried' to commit suicide,
> butwas captured first by a Roman cavalry soldier. Has anyone read the
>
> samething?
>
> Salve Gnaeus Salix Astur.
> Actually in 1965 the tombstone of a Roman soldier "Tiberus Claudius
> Maximus" was discovered, and it completed the story. It was Maximus
> as trooper of the Second Pannonia, who caught Decebalus, but was
> unable to stop him from cutting his throat. (...et ab eodem factus
> decurio in ala eadem quod cepisset Decebalum et caput eius pertlisset
>
> ei Ranisstoro...) He decapatated Decebalus, and brought his head back
>
> to Trajan at Ranistorum. For this he was made a Decurion.
>
> Vale
> Q. Fabius Maximus
Probably, it was the way you say.
BTW, he brought the enemy commander's head, and was just promoted to
decurio? Promotion was pretty hard in the Roman legions, I guess ;-).
=====
Bene Valete!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Civis romanus.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Asturias the Great (was Oh Caius Boy) |
| From: |
Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 May 2001 18:57:47 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Salvete omnes; et salve, Piperbarbe.
--- Piparskeggr Ullarsson <catamount_grange@--------> wrote:
> Ave Gnæus Salix,
>
> Gnaeus Salix Astur wrote:
> >
> > Aaaand, YESSS! Another beautiful sing-song:
> >
> > Oh Caius boy, (excision)
> >
>
> This was genuinely touching, and amusing, to me!
> (And I really loathe "Danny Boy.")
>
> Thank you.
Thank you for your support. It means a lot to me, but I have to say
that I like to sing "Danny Boy", especially when I have had too much
spiced wine ;-P. That's way I know it by heart :-).
And know, I'll just destroy another famous song:
Now under rain and thunder
We'll never eat cucumber
For we are barbarians from the North of Spain
Now feel the cider flowing
Then feel the piss a-going
As we once more are going to
Asturias the Brave
Asturias my mountain hame
Though sometimes pretty lame
Long may your cider pissers
Gallantly wave
Land of the drinking fever
Land of the yellow river
Land of my heart forever
ASTURIAS THE GREAT
=====
Bene Valete!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Civis romanus.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Asturias the Great (was Oh Caius Boy) |
| From: |
Piparskeggr Ullarsson <catamount_grange@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 03 May 2001 21:02:03 -0500 |
|
Gnaeus Salix Astur wrote:
>
> Salvete omnes; et salve, Piperbarbe.
>
> And know, I'll just destroy another famous song:
>
> Now under rain and thunder
> (excision)
>
> =====
> Bene Valete!
> Gnaeus Salix Astur.
> Civis romanus.
>
Oh pain!!!
"Bring me oatmeal, mother
for I am hungry, mother"
Bring me my sheep
for I'm lonely tonite!!!"
8-) 8-) 8-)
--
===========================================
In Amicus sub Fidelis, Benedicte Omnes!
- Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
Cives, Paterfamilias Gens Ulleria
Quæstor, Legate, Dominus Sodalis
My homestead
http://www.geocities.com/piparskegg/index.html
Sodalis pro Coqueror et Coquus
http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Asturias the Great (was Oh Caius Boy) |
| From: |
Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 3 May 2001 19:45:01 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Salvete omnes; et salve, Piperbarbe.
--- Piparskeggr Ullarsson <catamount_grange@--------> wrote:
> Oh pain!!!
>
> "Bring me oatmeal, mother
> for I am hungry, mother"
> Bring me my sheep
> for I'm lonely tonite!!!"
>
> 8-) 8-) 8-)
>
Ooops! I guess it would be funnier if I could recognize the original
song. Which one is it, Piperbarbe? I don't think I know.
Sorry :-).
=====
Bene Valete!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Civis romanus.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Asturias the Great (was Oh Caius Boy) |
| From: |
Piparskeggr Ullarsson <catamount_grange@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 03 May 2001 21:46:31 -0500 |
|
Salve Gnaeus Salix,
Gnaeus Salix Astur wrote:
>
> Salvete omnes; et salve, Piperbarbe.
>
> --- Piparskeggr Ullarsson <catamount_grange@--------> wrote:
> > Oh pain!!!
> >
> > "Bring me oatmeal, mother
> > for I am hungry, mother"
> > Bring me my sheep
> > for I'm lonely tonite!!!"
> >
> > 8-) 8-) 8-)
> >
>
> Ooops! I guess it would be funnier if I could recognize the original
> song. Which one is it, Piperbarbe? I don't think I know.
>
> Sorry :-).
>
I was referencing "Scotland Depraved."
Which is a "Filk" of -Scotland the Brave-
--
In Amicus sub Fidelis, Benedicte Omnes!
- Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
Cives, Paterfamilias Gens Ulleria
Quæstor, Legate, Dominus Sodalis
My homestead
http://www.geocities.com/piparskegg/index.html
Sodalis pro Coqueror et Coquus
http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Asturias the Great (was Oh Caius Boy) |
| From: |
"Gnaeus Salix Astur" <salixastur@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 04 May 2001 02:54:37 -0000 |
|
Salvete omnes; et salve, Piperbarbe.
--- In novaroma@--------, Piparskeggr Ullarsson <catamount_grange@i...>
wrote:
> I was referencing "Scotland Depraved."
> Which is a "Filk" of -Scotland the Brave-
You should be ashamed of yourself, you naughty boy! Don't you know
that any kind of offensive references to race, creed or SEXUAL
PREFERENCE are explicitly forbidden on this list?
It wouldn't surprise me if you were arrested by the police after
this. Besides, I think that many policemen in America wear skirst on
St. Patrick's Day, so I guess they won't take offensive sexual
references as mere jokes.
;-)
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Asturias the Great (was Oh Caius Boy) |
| From: |
Piparskeggr Ullarsson <catamount_grange@--------> |
| Date: |
Thu, 03 May 2001 21:58:42 -0500 |
|
Ave Gnaeus Salix:
Gnaeus Salix Astur wrote:
>
> Salvete omnes; et salve, Piperbarbe.
>
> --- In novaroma@--------, Piparskeggr Ullarsson <catamount_grange@i...>
> wrote:
> > I was referencing "Scotland Depraved."
> > Which is a "Filk" of -Scotland the Brave-
>
> You should be ashamed of yourself, you naughty boy! Don't you know
> that any kind of offensive references to race, creed or SEXUAL
> PREFERENCE are explicitly forbidden on this list?
>
> It wouldn't surprise me if you were arrested by the police after
> this. Besides, I think that many policemen in America wear skirst on
> St. Patrick's Day, so I guess they won't take offensive sexual
> references as mere jokes.
>
> ;-)
>
Axe Ewe Alley, since I am ScotsIrish on my paternal grandmother's side,
I proudly wear ORANGE on Saint Paddy's Day!!! I have low tolerance for my "in-laws" who have a soft
spot for the "Old Sod."
--
===========================================
In Amicus sub Fidelis, Benedicte Omnes!
- Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
Cives, Paterfamilias Gens Ulleria
Quæstor, Legate, Dominus Sodalis
My homestead
http://www.geocities.com/piparskegg/index.html
Sodalis pro Coqueror et Coquus
http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Provincial Newsletter Editor (Vestal) |
| From: |
QFabiusMax@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 4 May 2001 03:01:46 EDT |
|
In a message dated 5/3/2001 11:03:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
jmath669642reng@-------- writes:
<< If anyone hears from her or becomes informed of her reasons for not
being in communication I would be most pleased and relieved to hear;
>>
Salve Marcus Mincius
The last thing I heard was she was going to go back into the hospital, for a
final procedure.
I hope she is all right. I pray to mother Vesta to protect her.
Vale
Q Fabius Maximus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Asturias the Great (was Oh Caius Boy) |
| From: |
Kristoffer From <kristoffer.from@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 04 May 2001 09:05:24 +0200 |
|
Salvete, oh ye who singest.
I'm quite certain there's a specific sodality list for songs and poetry.
And the private conversation between two citizens should be kept off the
main list as well...oops, sorry. Think I've got a headache. Too many
pepparkakor, maybe.
Valete,
Titus Octavius Pius,
Consiliarius Thules,
Praeco Anarei Thules,
Scriba to the Curator Araneum
AKA Kristoffer From
---
Si hoc signum legere potes,
operis boni in rebus latinis alacribus
et fructuosis potiri potes.
- Not-so-famous quotation
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCS d- s:++> a-- C++>$ ULS++ P+ L++ E- W++(--) N
o-- K- w--- !O M-- V-- PS->$ PE- Y+ PGP- t+@ 5- X-
R+++>$ !tv- b+++>$ DI++++ D+ G e h! !r-->r+++ !x-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
---- BEGIN RP CODE BLOCK ----
RPaWfC R+++ H+++/--- I+++ M+++/- C- A+++ S+ G+ P+++/--- XPG
---- END RP CODE BLOCK ----
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Fw: Roman Days Info |
| From: |
"Lucius Equitius" <vze23hw7@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 4 May 2001 08:28:49 -0400 |
|
> ROMAN DAYS-- A display of ancient military and domestic living history
>
> Salvete Omnes!
> The fourth annual Roman Days will be on June 9-10, 2001. It is hosted
by
> the Twentieth Legion and will be held at Marietta Mansion in Glenn Dale,
> Maryland, 4 miles east of I-95/I-495 (Capital Beltway) near the junction
of
> Routes 450 and 193. Representatives from the Gallic provinces will also
be
> invited, plus any Greeks, Sumerians, Ice Men, etc., that turn up, but
> naturally the emphasis will be on Rome. There will also be an emphasis on
> authentic living history, but I WANT EVERYONE! Civilians, teachers,
> wargamers--if you have any interest in ancient history, please come! Be a
> participant or just come and talk to everyone about our mutual passion.
You
> do NOT need to have period clothing to participate!
> Come one, come all! Let me know how you'd like to participate, or if you
> wouldn't mind just manning a table for a while. Or just show up and hang
> out!
>
> TENTATIVE SCHEDULE
> --Arrive and set up on Friday, or Saturday morning. You may camp at the
> site Friday, Saturday, and Sunday night.
> --Open to the public c. 10 AM to 4 PM Saturday and Sunday, admission $2
per
> person. No fee for participants or merchants.
>
> FRIDAY
> Arrival and set-up, general hobnobbing
> SATURDAY
> 10 AM, OPEN TO THE PUBLIC
> 11 AM, Full muster and opening remarks
> 11:30, Kids' Cohort
> 12 Noon, Lunch--cooking and eating demos
> 1 PM, Massed tactical and drill demo
> 1:30, Kids' Cohort
> 2 PM, Fashion Show
> 3 PM, Evolution of the Roman Soldier
> 4 PM, Close to the public
> SUNDAY
> 10 AM, OPEN TO THE PUBLIC
> 11 AM, Olympic competition--Armor Race, Pilum Throw, Hamata Toss,
> Wrestling, various ball games, etc.
> 11:30, Drill and Kids' Cohort
> 12 Noon, Lunch and rehabilitation
> 1 PM, Massed tactical and drill demo
> 1:30, Kids' Cohort
> 2 PM, Fashion Show
> 3 PM, Closing parade
> 4 PM, Close to the public
>
> FACILITIES, ETC.
> Plenty of space for displays, parking, period or modern camping, etc.
> Water, portajohns, straw, firewood. There will be a number of
> canopies/pop-up flies for shade or rain protection, mostly for the
merchants
> and table displays. There are a number of hotels within a few miles,
mainly
> on Rt. 450 near the Beltway. Participants should supply their own food,
> although there will be a hot dog and snow cone vendor present. There are
> stores, restaurants, and fast food places within a couple miles, farther
> west/north along Rt. 193, or near the Beltway.
> Besides the usual military camps and our herb-seller display, there will
be
> static displays with domestic items, models, etc., a couple merchants and
> craftspersons, and hopefully some kids' activities. If you have any ideas
> or activities to add, please sing out! (Augury? Law court skit? MUSIC?)
>
> DIRECTIONS
> Marietta Mansion is located at 5626 Bell Station Road, just off Rt. 193.
> From I-95/495, the Capital Beltway, take Exit 20 onto Rt. 450 East, go 4
> miles, turn left on Rt. 193, then left onto Bell Station Rd. and
immediately
> left into Marietta. There is much construction on Rt. 450, and it now
makes
> a left turn where it meets Rt. 704, but it's well marked and should cause
no
> problems.
>
> More information can be sent if necessary, and I need to know what YOU
want
> to do! Contact me with your questions and input:
> Matthew Amt (Quintus)
> 9416 Rhode Island Ave.
> College Park, MD 20740-1639
> 301-345-0582
> mamt@--------
>
> Susan Wolfe, the site manager at Marietta, can be reached at 301-464-5291.
>
> Roman Days are here again,
> The Roman folks can cheer again,
> And practice with their spear again,
> Roman Days are here again!
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: posting issues with the list |
| From: |
CmndrZil@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 4 May 2001 01:27:05 EDT |
|
Oppius Flaccus said:
<< For others, we are getting little or no mail and
anything we post is not received or not posted
until 10 or 12 hours later. >>
Being new and all, I will refrain from spouting too much sarcasm. I'm not
sure how much I can get away with yet. I just want to be clear though...
You're complaining because of 10 to 12 hours of waiting, right? If so, you
need to go outside. Just turn off the computer, maybe find some gainful
employment, take a course at a community college, anything at all, just leave
the internet and the high tech world of poor service and speed. Patience is
a virtue. (One that I have not mastered, but a virtue nonetheless.)
Tarquinia Euphemia
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Sing songs (was Moderated Boys.......) |
| From: |
trog99@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 04 May 2001 13:23:25 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> wrote:
> > (((((((((((Bravo!!! Encore! Encore!))))))))))))
> > .......Play it again, Sal......!! :)
>
> You liked it, didn't you? Well, I have another sweet tune for your
ears
> (I seem to be inspired by the Muses, tonight) :-P.
>
> There's a long way to be a full Nation
> There's a long way to go
> There's a long way to be a full Nation
> Where I may place my home
>
> Goodbye Macronation, farewell biggest States
> There's a long long way to be a full Nation
> But my heart's already there
>
> Hope you all like it :-).
Pompeia: ((((((((kudos!!!)))))))))
>
>
> =====
> Bene Valete!
> Gnaeus Salix Astur.
> Civis romanus.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
> http://auctions.yahoo.com/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] The Singing Nationalist |
| From: |
trog99@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 04 May 2001 13:28:55 -0000 |
|
Salve Salix:
Your offering "Oh Caius Boy" is truly the best of the bunch. How
delicious!
Nova Roma has its very first "singing natonalist" in you G. Salix
Astur!
I am having a wonderful time sitting at my computer in hysterics!
Thanks :) We need to have some levity on this list from time to time.
Pompeia
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Things to ponder - A grin for today |
| From: |
mansker@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 04 May 2001 17:25:25 -0000 |
|
Only in America......do we use the word 'politics' to describe the
process so well: 'Poli' in Latin meaning 'many' and 'tics' meaning
'bloodsucking creatures'
Only in America......do they have drive-up ATM machines with Braille
lettering.
When cows laugh, does milk come ut their noses?
Only in America......do drugstores make the sick walk all the way to
the back of the store to get their prescriptions while healthy people
can buy cigarettes at the front.
Gaia Flacca Severa
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Dacian Wars Question Tiberus Claudius Maximus |
| From: |
QFabiusMax@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 4 May 2001 14:00:26 EDT |
|
In a message dated 5/4/2001 10:26:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
salixastur@-------- writes:
<< In fact, I read somewhere that Decebalus 'tried' to commit suicide, but
was captured first by a Roman cavalry soldier. Has anyone read the same
thing? >>
Salve Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Actually in 1965 the tombstone with his wartime exploits of a Roman soldier
"Tiberus Claudius Maximus" was discovered, and it completed the story. It
was Maximus
as trooper of the Second Pannonia, who caught Decebalus, but was
unable to stop him from cutting his throat. (...et ab eodem factus
decurio in ala eadem quod cepisset Decebalum et caput eius pertlisset
ei Ranisstoro...) He decapatated Decebalus, and brought his head back
to Trajan at Ranistorum. For this he was made a Decurion.
Vale
Q. Fabius Maximus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Sarmation Allies |
| From: |
QFabiusMax@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 4 May 2001 14:16:54 EDT |
|
In a message dated 5/4/2001 10:26:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
TSardonicus@-------- writes:
<< Also, can anyone tell me the approximate proportion of
> the Dacian forces that were made up of Sarmatian
> allies? >>
Salvete
The Sarmatians were from the Roxolani Tribe, which according to a historian,
Dio Cassius I believe, was 10,000 strong. However, not all of these would
be Catafractus, some would just be Heavy Cavalry and logistics. I think 5000
catafracts would be a fair estimate.
The Roman alaes had no problem defeating these by the way.
Q. Fabius Maximus
Military Historian
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Alternatives |
| From: |
"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 4 May 2001 20:24:37 +0200 |
|
Salvete Consules et Quirites Novae Romae,
I'm here with two questions and two suggestions connected to those questions.
My first question. At a given moment a few weeks ago there were three versions of the Gender Edict circulating here, and it was said all of them, or one of them, would be put up for a vote with the original one. On the vote presented, however, these alternatives of both Marius and Vedius are absent. Why is that? They seemed like good alternatives to me, and the people would have a choice between a few versions, instead of only one to either approve or disapprove of.
My second question. Since the number of debates the tax plan has generated (and, let us admit it, in which I fiercely participated :-)), I've come up with somewhat of an alternative, too. I'd like to have comments on this plan, and would appreciate the Consules' considerations - if the reactions are fairly ok - to perhaps put it up as an alternative to the other taxation plan. Here it is:
This law shall be dealing with as much issues concerning citizenship tax as possible, divided in the paragraphs below.
1.. An estimated amount of money, expressed in USD and Euros, set by the Senatus each year during the Kalends of January, shall be asked from the citizens of Nova Roma to be paid within the boundaries of the financial year (starting on the Kalends of January, lasting until the next Kalends of January). This amount announced is subject to intercessio from the Tribuni.
Ia. This amount may differ for each province in a reasonable way, in cooperation with that province's governarial staff. Should a consensus not be reached, the dispute will be settled with the Quaestores, by whose judgement both parties must abide. This judgement is subject to intercessio.
Ib. Provinces that do not have a governor will be expected to pay the amount set by the Senatus, unless they fall under the exceptions set forth in paragraph III.
b.. The Propraetores (or Procuratores) of each province will decide the percentage of this money from the citizens of their province that goes to the provincial treasury, in coöperation with the Senatus, and on the condition that legal provisions are in place to protect the treasury from said provinces from corruption, embezzlement or otherwise illegal practices as described and defined by the macrolegal laws of their home countries.
c.. Citizens who fail to pay their yearly amount of tax, shall be placed in the 5th century for the next financial year. These citizens shall be relocated to other centuries from their taxes reaches Nova Roma. Exceptions shall be made for following groups of citizens, on the condition that they contact the Senatus and the Quaestores regarding their special status:
IIIa. Citizens who are unemployed and/or psyhically handicapped.
IIIb. Citizens under the age of 25 and above the age of 65.
IIIc. Citizens that live in macronations that is in a state of either economic, political or financial disarray and/or suffering severe hardships due to natural or unnatural causes (examples include, but are not limited to: natural disasters, war, famine or extreme poverty).
IIId. Citizens serving Nova Roma as Rogator or Quaestor.
(Should a citizen enjoy these exceptions unrightfully, he or she can be expelled from Nova Roma at the time of the discovery of such fraud, after a trial held by the Praetores, as described elsewhere)
d.. Citizens who pay their taxes during five consecutive years shall be nominated by the Censores for the Equestrian order.
e.. At the end of the financial year, the Quaestores will compile a list of those citizens that paid an amount of tax equal to or more than previously agreed upon, and present that list to both public and Censores. Citizens not on that list will be placed in the 5th century as described in paragraph III.
Va. Citizens who feel that they have been injustly put in that 5th century because they fall into the exceptional categories described in paragraphs IIIa, b, c and d or did pay their yearly tax should contact the Quaestores. If a consensus can not be reached, said citizen may appeal to a Praetor for a public trial.
Thank you for your attention.
Valete bene!
Sextus Apollonius Draco,
Vainqueur, ICQ# 32924725
Darkling_Crawler, Yahoo IM
"Come, fly the teeth of the wind; share my wings" (FSOL)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] scholarship fund |
| From: |
Daniel Dreesbach <stakor2000@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 4 May 2001 11:21:23 -0700 (PDT) |
|
May I work on setting up a scholarship fund for the
local community where I am at?
Gaius Geminius Germanus
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Alternatives |
| From: |
mansker@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 04 May 2001 19:46:13 -0000 |
|
Salve Draco -
I agree with your reasoning except for the following:
--- In novaroma@--------, "S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@p...>
wrote:
<Snipped>
> IIIa. Citizens who are unemployed and/or psyhically handicapped.
What happens when they become employed? Are they expected to pay?
Most unemployment doesn't last a full year.
>
> IIIb. Citizens under the age of 25 and above the age of 65.
>
All citizens under 25 are exempt from tax? Why? If they are
students, certainly, but what if they are not? Do they still get out
of paying taxes?
I would be interested in discussing this with you.
Gaia Flacca Severa
|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] Alternatives |
| From: |
"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 4 May 2001 18:00:51 -0400 |
|
Salve,
>>My second question. Since the number of debates the tax plan has generated
(and, let us admit it, in which I fiercely participated :-)), I've come up
with somewhat of an alternative, too.>>
I guess this is where I definitely come down as a "hard-liner". As I see
it, not tossing people OUT of Nova Roma entirely for non-payment IS the
alternative/compromise/nice-thing-to-do. I would *love* to belong to
numerous clubs. Heck, there are at least seven magazines I would dearly
love to subscribe to, but I cannot indulge myself on all of them. Do you
think for even a second that *anyone* at *any* of these organizations is
thinking "gee, she just had a baby, money must be tight, let's allow her to
receive the magazine but just tell her she cannot submit articles."? Of
course not, the very thought is ridiculous. Quite frankly, in the real world
those that don't pay don't get the benefit of membership. Period. The very
fact that the Consul suggested a way to retain citizens at *all* who don't
pay, as opposed to tossing them out, is enough of a compromise/alternative.
>>1.. An estimated amount of money, expressed in USD and Euros, set by the
Senatus each year during the Kalends of January, shall be asked from the
citizens of Nova Roma to be paid within the boundaries of the financial year
(starting on the Kalends of January, lasting until the next Kalends of
January). This amount announced is subject to intercessio from the
Tribuni.>>
I would think that there ought to be a deadline of some sort for payment.
For example, here in the USA all taxes are due by April 15th. I only put
this forth because I would imagine a budget built on people paying
"whenever" from 1/1 to 1/1 would be hard to count on. I am open on this
one, as I have minimal accounting experience with budgets, but it seems
reasonable to require taxes paid by a certain date, with extensions
available perhaps on a case-by-case basis. I don't honestly see the need
for the amount be open to intercessio. This smacks of not trusting the
Senate. Let's face it, if we don't trust them, we are in trouble. LOL I
highly doubt the Senate will proclaim taxes in an absurd amount, so the
intercessio seems like unnecessary watch-dogging.
>>Ia. This amount may differ for each province in a reasonable way, in
cooperation with that province's governarial staff. Should a consensus not
be reached, the dispute will be settled with the Quaestores, by whose
judgement both parties must abide. This judgement is subject to
intercessio.>>
I don't care for this, honestly. However, I do realize that there might be
the *occasional* Province that needs extra consideration. The fact that you
include the word reasonable makes me feel slightly better, since in my view
there would need to be *very* clear reason for differing tax amounts or we
open ourselves to a world of trouble as provinces compare themselves and
perhaps dislike the different amounts.
>>b.. The Propraetores (or Procuratores) of each province will decide the
percentage of this money from the citizens of their province that goes to
the provincial treasury, in coöperation with the Senatus, and on the
condition that legal provisions are in place to protect the treasury from
said provinces from corruption, embezzlement or otherwise illegal practices
as described and defined by the macrolegal laws of their home countries.>>
The safe-guards against embezzlement are of course necessary across the
board. However, I disagree that the Propraetores should decide what
percentage they keep for their province. The Senate ought to set the
percentage, and the Governors can always petition for an increase on a case
by case basis as needed. This type of thing has already been established in
a way with the Senate agreeing to provide a sum of money to fund the Nov
Roma hospitality suite at Roman Days. If Governors ask, and the request is
reasonable, I am sure the Senate will grant the request. To allow Governors
to arbitrarily decide how much their province keeps is unwarranted.
>>c.. Citizens who fail to pay their yearly amount of tax, shall be placed
in the 5th century for the next financial year. These citizens shall be
relocated to other centuries from their taxes reaches Nova Roma. Exceptions
shall be made for following groups of citizens, on the condition that they
contact the Senatus and the Quaestores regarding their special status:>>
It is the very notion of exceptions that I disagree with, but I shall
address each specifically.
>>IIIa. Citizens who are unemployed and/or psyhically handicapped.>>
Ummm, permit me to suggest that if one is unemployed, one has better ways to
spend one's time than wandering the internet world of Nova Roma. I would
also ask how you plan for us to keep track of who is out of work for how
long and what to do with those who subsequently find employment. Do they
pay a prorated tax based on months worked? What about the chronically
unemployed? As for the handicapped, I would surmise that if they are doing
well enough to have internet access they are doing well enough to pay their
share. There is also the notion of what defines a handicap. According to
the Americans with Disabilities Act, obesity is a handicap. I am not sure
"too fat to pay taxes" ought to be an option, yet if pressed such a person
could *prove* they were handicapped.
>>IIIb. Citizens under the age of 25 and above the age of 65.>>
This is just silly! I can see a student tax rate, but why on earth should
youth alone gain you a tax break?? I also cannot let this pass without the
comment that I find it very odd coming from you of all people. You have made
such a case for youth not impacting ability to function, and yet now you'd
like to not have to pay taxes? I think not. There are many 22 year old
married couples raising children, as well as many 70 year olds traveling the
world and doing quite well. I'll say it again, if you cannot afford the
taxes, perhaps you need to consider you priorities.
>>IIIc. Citizens that live in macronations that is in a state of either
economic, political or financial disarray and/or suffering severe hardships
due to natural or unnatural causes (examples include, but are not limited
to: natural disasters, war, famine or extreme poverty).>>
Okay, now this is bordering on the ridiculous! Here is a thought...if you
live in a war zone, don't stop to check the Main List, don't stop to log on
and vote: MOVE! If you live in a famine zone, put the mouse down and go
find food for your family!! As for nations in financial disarray I would go
head to head with anyone on debating whether the USA's financial situation
is "in disarray". Certainly not in the way you mean to exempt us from
taxes, but you see my point.
>>IIId. Citizens serving Nova Roma as Rogator or Quaestor.>>
Why only these? Why not Consuls, Censors, etc etc? It seems quite
arbitrary to provide a tax break for some and not others.
>>(Should a citizen enjoy these exceptions unrightfully, he or she can be
expelled from Nova Roma at the time of the discovery of such fraud, after a
trial held by the Praetores, as described elsewhere)>>
And here is where we come to the crux of our disagreement. Are you
volunteering to make the verification of financial claims your full-time
job? Because that is what it would be. To suggest that every incidence of
fraud would need to be dealt with through a trial is absurd. We have not
managed to convene any trials in circumstances that did warrant one. We
certainly don't stand ready to prosecute every yahoo who falsifies their
financial status. I will state that 90% of the cives in Nova Roma are
probably quite honest and unlikely to lie. However, as Curatrix I see a
high number of spammers, trolls and frauds attempting to post here to the
Main List each month, why should we assume these individuals, if given the
chance, would be honest? The solution you propose is simply unworkable in
our current state. Much easier and better for all of us to draw the clear
line: pay taxes or don't. If you don't, you'll get put in the special
group. Period.
I will conclude by re-stating an important point. We have already made
provisions for the poor, the unemployed, the cheap and the lazy. They are
not being tossed out on their ears. However, to try and make provisions for
every individual to enjoy equal treatment, even those who don't contribute
equally is simply naive and a waste of our resources.
>>Thank you for your attention.>>
I appreciate your attempt here, I really do. I just think you need to step
back and realize that your proposal vastly increases the work-load (to
untenable levels) and is unnecessary given that anyone can enjoy membership
here.
Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena
Valete bene!
Sextus Apollonius Draco,
Vainqueur, ICQ# 32924725
Darkling_Crawler, Yahoo IM
"Come, fly the teeth of the wind; share my wings" (FSOL)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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