Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Another thought about the Constitution
From:	"Marcos Boehme" <m_arminius@-------->
Date:	Tue, 08 May 2001 21:27:08 -0300

Salve, Astur

I believe that the magisterial edicta are limitated by:
- The Constitution
- The Laws approvated by the Comitiae
- And are superceded by every other edicta of magistrates of superior rank and
- Subsequent edicta of magistrates of equal rank.

So, the edicta doesnt seems to have a limit of time, like Roma Antiqua, it depends only on the will of subsequent magistrates.

Vale
Marcus Arminius Maior
Aedilis Plebis

--
On Sun, 6 May 2001 13:56:38
Gnaeus Salix Astur wrote:
>Salvete omnes.
>
>I have been thinking about the Constitutio, and I have come to a
>question. Is there a limit to the validity of magisterial edicta?
>
>Under ancient Roman law, edicta were issued by a magistrate, but lasted
>solely during that magistrate's term. They were also called 'one-year
>laws' because of that.
>
>A new magistrate usually issued his first edictum to make clear which
>of the previous edicta were still valid under that term.
>
>In that way, Romans avoided edicta becoming de facto laws not voted by
>the Comitia. They were always subjected to the will of subsequent
>magistrates, while leges were firm, and needed a new comitial vote to
>be overruled.
>
>Bene Valete!
>Gnaeus Salix Astur.
>Civis romanus.
>


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Subject:	[novaroma] half would be left
From:	Richard Evans <richard@-------->
Date:	Wed, 09 May 2001 02:06:23 +0100

Hoped this deal would secure the peace and survival of his kingdom and family. When he died his kingdom and family were plundered. Tacitus reports that it happened twice "one by Roman officers, the other by Roman slaves".

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Subject:	[novaroma] Mistakes in Gladiator
From:	Piparskeggr Ullarsson <catamount_grange@-------->
Date:	Tue, 08 May 2001 20:22:25 -0500

Avete Omnes,

Got a coupla chuckles from this and a coupla good laffs.

http://www.films.movie-mistakes.com/letters/g/gladiator.htm

--
===========================================
In Amicus sub Fidelis, Benedicte Omnes!
- Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
Cives, Paterfamilias Gens Ulleria
Quæstor, Legate, Dominus Sodalis
My homestead
http://www.geocities.com/piparskegg/index.html
Sodalis pro Coqueror et Coquus
http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq

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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Comitia Open???
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 8 May 2001 12:58:42 -0400

Salve

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jerry Anguston [mailto:gaiussentius@--------]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 2:18 AM
>
> I recently read the post posted by Consul Germanicus
> that the voting has begun on the proposed laws, yet I
> see no link to the laws on the main site. How do I
> vote?

Right now we are merely in the "contio" phase of the voting process, where
the various issues are discussed and points of view shared. The actual
casting of votes won't start until Saturday, May 12th. From the official
call to vote:

> The Contio (official debate) on the matters before the Comitia is now
begun.
> It shall continue until Saturday May 12th at 6:00 PM (noon AM Eastern
time),
> at which time the Cista shall be opened and voting shall commence. Voting
> shall continue until Sunday May 20th at 6:00 PM (noon Eastern time).
> Individuals who do not have their voter code should contact the censors
> (censors@--------) immediately.

Next year in the Forum!

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org




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Subject:	[novaroma] Statement on Unofficial Lists
From:	"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@-------->
Date:	Tue, 8 May 2001 22:31:02 -0400

Salve,

Having seen the posts today of Gnaeus Salix Astur and Oppius Flacus, I feel
I need to make an official statement about their current creation of
"backup" Nova Roma mailing lists. Their actions are, in a word, premature.

Granted, their list(s) are completely unofficial, therefore there is no
"harm" done, but it also bears noting that they have taken this action
without so much as the courtesy of an e-mail. ....public or private.....to
me as Curatrix Sermonis. As the duly elected magistrate in charge of *all*
official Nova Roman mailing lists, any change that would ever come about
would need to come through me at any rate. Therefore, while they are free
to create as many unofficial "backup" lists as they see fit, when and if the
day come for Nova Roma to alter its mailing programs, that will be done
through my office, not through any such unofficial lists.

I have stated in past days, and will do so again, that if problems persist
with yahoo I am quite certain to pursue other avenues. In the meantime,
however, random citizens creating multiple new lists without so much as a
nod to the propriety of their actions is not helping the situation. I
appreciate your attention, and wanted to be quite clear for those of you who
may be considering joining the "backup" lists that they are not now, nor
will they ever likely be, made official. if and when a change in mailing
program is made I will open the floor for suggestions, assistance and
opinions. For now, however well intended they may be, multiple lists are
unnecessary and, as I said, quite premature.

Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena
Curatrix Sermonis

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Statement on Unofficial Lists
From:	lsicinius@--------
Date:	Wed, 09 May 2001 02:58:53 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@g...> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> Having seen the posts today of Gnaeus Salix Astur and Oppius Flacus,
I feel
> I need to make an official statement about their current creation of
> "backup" Nova Roma mailing lists. Their actions are, in a word,
premature.
>
> Granted, their list(s) are completely unofficial, therefore there is no
> "harm" done, but it also bears noting that they have taken this action
> without so much as the courtesy of an e-mail. ....public or
private.....to
> me as Curatrix Sermonis. As the duly elected magistrate in charge
of *all*
> official Nova Roman mailing lists, any change that would ever come about
> would need to come through me at any rate. Therefore, while they
are free
> to create as many unofficial "backup" lists as they see fit, when
and if the
> day come for Nova Roma to alter its mailing programs, that will be done
> through my office, not through any such unofficial lists.
>
> I have stated in past days, and will do so again, that if problems
persist
> with yahoo I am quite certain to pursue other avenues. In the meantime,
> however, random citizens creating multiple new lists without so much
as a
> nod to the propriety of their actions is not helping the situation. I
> appreciate your attention, and wanted to be quite clear for those of
you who
> may be considering joining the "backup" lists that they are not now, nor
> will they ever likely be, made official. if and when a change in
mailing
> program is made I will open the floor for suggestions, assistance and
> opinions. For now, however well intended they may be, multiple
lists are
> unnecessary and, as I said, quite premature.
>
> Vale,
> Priscilla Vedia Serena
> Curatrix Sermonis

Salve,

Just so there is no mistake, I have started an unoffical list purly
for the purpose of looking over alternitives to Yahoo groups. The
reason for this is simple, should the need arise I wish to be able to
present an option to Nova Roma that is well thought out and ready to
implement. This list is for nerds to talk about the techinal side of
mailing lists, and I don't intend to use NRmail for any other reason.
If you wish to join in you are more than welcome, as your views would
be a great help in setting up a model software suite.

I have no intrest in duplicating this list or any other. I am
intrested laying the ground work for a proposal, and working with some
of my fellow citizens in doing so. Once we agree on a general outline,
I will be more than happy to mail you a progress report if you opt not
to join our little chat.

BTW, Topica is as unrelible as Yahoo has been lately, they are down at
this time.

Vale,
Lucius Sicinius Drusus




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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Statement on Unofficial Lists
From:	"Oppius Flaccus Severus" <oppiusflaccus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 8 May 2001 20:08:21 -0700

Salvete Pricilla Vedia et Quiritibus;
-----Original Message-----
From: JusticeCMO [mailto:justicecmo@--------]
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 7:31 PM
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: [novaroma] Statement on Unofficial Lists


Salve,

Having seen the posts today of Gnaeus Salix Astur and Oppius Flaccus, I feel
I need to make an official statement about their current creation of
"backup" Nova Roma mailing lists. Their actions are, in a word, premature.

OFS: With all due respect Curatrix, they are *not*
premature. None of this has been done without significant
problems, AND I might add pleading mails to the Senate
which except for two very gracious Senators that at least
took the time to respond to my inquiry, (even though they
both repeated their belief that there was not a problem)
the issue of communications has been summarily dismissed
except by the cives most directly impacted.

Curatrix Vedia:
Granted, their list(s) are completely unofficial, therefore there is no
"harm" done, but it also bears noting that they have taken this action
without so much as the courtesy of an e-mail. ....public or private.....to
me as Curatrix Sermonis.

OFS: Actually, this is untrue. A list idea was posted
to the mainlist (your 'official' communication list,)
earlier today. A list was started by myself, initial
subscribers were asked based on their previously stated
willingness to assist with the effort, then it turns
out that again due to Yahoo lags, that Lucius Sicinius
had already created a list; which has been posted *publicly*
to the main list and has been joined by a few cives;
myself included. The list that I temporarily is being
dismantled per my previous mail.

Curatrix Vedia:
As the duly elected magistrate in charge of *all*
official Nova Roman mailing lists, any change that would ever come about
would need to come through me at any rate. Therefore, while they are free
to create as many unofficial "backup" lists as they see fit, when and if the
day come for Nova Roma to alter its mailing programs, that will be done
through my office, not through any such unofficial lists.

OFS: I might humbly suggest that you consider
subscribing to the 'nrmail@--------' list to continue
the discussion. It has been publicly listed and mentioned.
Since you are sharing a moment of policy clarity with us,
I would also like to share some clarity that the new
list is *simply* a place to discuss actual platform
alternatives. From there, alternatives are to be tested,
and *then* when an actual and viable alternative is
available, the whole thing becomes a proposal for the
Senate. It is not a 'rogue' operation, nor is it an
'alternative' in any form to the mainlist, simply a
discussion of the next generation hardware and software
platforms. The discussions are expected to be quite
technical and detailed in the early stages, until such
time a physical deployment plan can be submitted to the
Senate.

I repeat-there is *no* alternate archive to the mainlist
in any sort, form or fashion. Check out the list posts
and determine for yourself. Then perhaps, we can work
together on positive and proactive solutions instead of
criticizing the efforts of people who actually want to
deliver something.

Curatrix Vedia:
I have stated in past days, and will do so again, that if problems persist
with yahoo I am quite certain to pursue other avenues.

OFS: Problems have been persisting mi Pricilla, have gone on
for quite a while with many cives and as been already
publicly demonstrated, it is much easier for the administration
to maintain the status quo than to seek a viable alternative.
Let's be very nice and clear that in at least one case,
the Senate has been petitioned *directly* in this matter
and it was largely ignored.

Curatrix Vedia:
In the meantime,
however, random citizens creating multiple new lists without so much as a
nod to the propriety of their actions is not helping the situation.

OFS: As with some of your other posts of late, I must
completely disagree with your tone and suggestion here.
Though it is nice to know that my status has degenerated
to that of "random citizen."

There is nothing to "nod" to. The issue was petitioned
directly to the Senate and discussed on the mainlist.
Everyone (except, of course some of those most affected
by the Yahoo problems which you apparently have not been,)
*does* know of the issue and has been made aware of it.

In the most extreme, we have citizens such as
Manius Villius that never receive a huge chunk
of mail. Others experience delays of hours, days
or complete non-delivery. This is a *confidence*
issue in our ability to maintain our own infrastructure
and maintain communications; which in my mind is
our most important obligation to *all* our cives.
I could go on, but the Yahoo problems have been
beat to death and it is *time to find resolutions.*

Curatrix Vedia:
I
appreciate your attention, and wanted to be quite clear for those of you who
may be considering joining the "backup" lists that they are not now, nor
will they ever likely be, made official.

OFS: You have clarified your position and I
have clarified mine.

Curatrix Vedia:
if and when a change in mailing
program is made I will open the floor for suggestions, assistance and
opinions. For now, however well intended they may be, multiple lists are
unnecessary and, as I said, quite premature.

OFS: Yes, this is *precisely* the point. Finding
the solutions to present. Solutions cannot be presented when
they have not been discussed, attempted and tested
can they? Of course not. Otherwise, it degenerates
into another opinionated discussion that bears no
physical results.

When and if results and alternate systems are available
for using and test, *then* it seems appropriate
to propose said alternatives to the Senate, yourself
and the citizens to determine what the next steps should
be.

Bene valete,
Oppius

<snipped>




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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Re: Statement on Unofficial Lists
From:	"Oppius Flaccus Severus" <oppiusflaccus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 8 May 2001 20:18:34 -0700

Salvete L. Sicini et Quiritibus;
-----Original Message-----
From: lsicinius@-------- [mailto:lsicinius@--------]
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 7:59 PM
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Statement on Unofficial Lists


<snipped>

BTW, Topica is as unrelible as Yahoo has been lately, they are down at
this time.

OFS: :-) Actually, Topica is down for scheduled maintenance. The first
time I've seen them do so. At least though, they have a notification
for this along with a statement of when it will be back online. :-) -There
is a notification on the Topica website.


<snipped>



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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] GLADIATOR--The Nova Roma Version, chap.1
From:	gcassiusnerva@--------
Date:	Tue, 8 May 2001 23:49:35 EDT

In a message dated 5/8/01 3:40:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
salixastur@-------- writes:


> The problem has to do with having missed a vital character to the
> story: ME! ;-)
>
> I hope you'll fix this flaw in chapter II :-].
>
>
>
>
>

Thanks! But chapter 2 is pretty much done. I think I can get you in in a
later chapter, though.

Nerva


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Subject:	[novaroma] GLADIATOR--The Nova Roma Version, chap.2
From:	gcassiusnerva@--------
Date:	Tue, 8 May 2001 23:58:02 EDT

Chapter 2 The Heir Apparent

Marcus Cassius Aurelius, the old stoic Emperor of Rome, had two grown
children; his son, Marcus Cassius Julianus, and Patricia. Patricia was not
his daughter, but became his ward when she was a young girl, after the death
of her parents. She had been married once before, to one Lucius Verus. But
her first husband was also dead, leaving her with a young son of her own,
Lucius. When Lucius Verus died, the Emperor arranged for Patricia to be
betrothed to his son Julianus, whom everyone called Cassius.
Now, on this dreary day, Cassius sat staring out the window of the
imperial coach as it slowly made it's way along the muddy and bumpy road
towards Vindabona, to their father and the army of General Flaccus. Patricia
rode with him, reclining on a couch. Cassius turned away from the window and
towards Patricia. "Father has summoned the senators as well as us. You know
what that means? It means he will name his successor!"
"Please Cassius, " Patricia said, "your never ending scheming hurts my head!"
The coach hit a bump. "And this coach ride hurts my back!" Now Cassius
moved across to his betrothed, and leaned over her and carressed her face.
"He will name his successor", he answered, "and he will name me!" Patricia's
eyes grew cold. "Don't forget, my husband to be, that there are other males
among the Cassii. Our relative, Nerva, for one. Father could conceivably
name him!"
"Nerva?!?!", Cassius spat, "Nerva??? Impossible!"
"Nerva has no defect to prevent him from being elevated to the purple",
Patricia cautioned.
"Gaius Cassius Nerva is an imbecile!", Cassius protested. "He is mad! His
mind is unhinged!"
"Like I said", replied Patricia, "he has no nothing that would prevent him
from being emperor!"
Now Cassius was worried. "Patricia....do you think he really could name
Nerva?" Patricia smiled and shook her head. "No, most likely not. Nerva
is, as you say, too crazy to be Caesar. He spends his free time writing
these asinine stories, like that one he wrote about you and me being invited
to dinner by some dork who wanted to marry our daughter, when we had no
daughter! Remember that one? He is such a waste!"
Cassius looked sad. "Still", he whispered, "father loves him. Father never
loved me."
"Oh Cassius, will you please stop that?", Patricia protested, rolling her
eyes.
"It's true", Cassius continued, "nobody loves me!"
Patricia rose to her feet and threw her arms around Cassius. "Cassius, I
love you, because your debauchery and fondness for exotic dancing girls is
exceeded only by your unlimited ambition and lust for power! And yes, father
will name you to succeed him as emperor. And then, then WE will stand at the
top of the power pyramid, and there will be NOTHING to knock us down!
NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING!!!"
They were both suddenly knocked down when the coach came to a quick
stop, with Patricia landing on top of Cassius with an 'AAAAAAUGH!' From
outside, the guards could hear the commotion, yells, and curses coming from
within. Suddenly, Cassius poked his head out the door. "Centurian!" he
demanded, "Why have we stopped?"
"We are near the army encampment sir!", the Praetorian answered.
"How far?", asked Cassius.
"Ten miles sir!"
Now Patricia's head appeared at the door. "Ten miles?!", she screamed. "You
mean to say you couldn't find a parking space closer than ten miles???"
"The road ahead is too narrow for the coach, Lady!", the soldier answered.
"My horse!", Cassius ordered, and in a moment, his brown charger was brought
to him, and he mounted. "Tell me centurian", Cassius demanded, "has the
battle been fought already?"
"Yes sir!" came the answer.
"You are sure?"
"Yes sir!"
"I mean, you are absolutely sure the battle is finished, done, over,
complete, kaput?"
"Absolutely sir!"
"And you are totally positive there is no longer any danger whatsoever?"
"None sir!"
Cassius closed his eyes and heaved a sigh of relief. "THANK GOD!"
He spun his horse around, and waved to Patricia, who blew him a kiss. And
Cassius drew his sword, yelled "charge!", and sped off down the road.

In his younger days, Emperor Marcus Cassius Aurelius was a combination
of both the soldier and scholar. Skillful in battle, but with the mind and
education of a philosopher, his favorite expressions were 'ah' and 'ah yes',
though with old age his mind and memories could lapse from time to time. He
had been outstanding in all ways, except for one defect; his phobia. For the
emperor had long had an unnatural, irrational fear of small dogs. The very
sight of a puppy could make him faint, and so great care had to be taken by
the Praetorians and his own family that no dogs ever came near him. But
these fears were not at all on his mind as he congratulated General Flaccus
on his victory that day over the last German force. As the two men walked up
the hill passed the army, the soldiers let up a deafening cheer. "They honor
their Emperor, Caesar", Flaccus said, with a bow. "No Flaccus", the old man
replied, "they cheer for you alone, and that is as it should be. For it was
you who planned and won this fight, the last battle of the war, and I and
Rome are in your debt. Now, how can I reward you?" Flaccus thought a
moment. "Give me a raise?", he asked.
"Sorry Flaccus, not in the budget this year! Anything else?", the emperor
asked.
"Let me go back home!"
"Ah!", he said, using his favorite over-used expression. "Home."
A trumpet signalled the arrival of someone important, and so the Emperor
and Flaccus turned to see Cassius riding furiously down the road to meet
them. Cassius dismounted, brandishing his sword. "Where are the Germans?",
he shouted. "Where are those damned wretched Germans! Direct me, noble
father, so that I may show them the fury of Rome with my dread sword!"
"Cassius", said the emperor.
"I'll rip out their eyes!", Cassius roared. "I'll hack their limbs! I'll
show them what it means to resist Rome and it's mighty and noble emperor!"
"Cassius!", the emperor repeated.
"Yes Father?"
"The battle is over!"
"OVER?!?! I missed the battle?!?!" Cassius asked, looking shocked.
The emperor sighed. "Yes, my son."
"Oh! Oh well!", Cassius said, sheathing his blade. "It's a good thing too.
I would have probably destroyed them worse than they are now, and committed
battlefield atrocites no royal son born to the purple should ever have to
personally commit!"
"Uh, right son", the old man replied. "That was why we did not wait for you.
You no doubt would have been too brutal out there." At these words, Cassius
smiled happily. His father pointed to Flaccus. "Now my son, thank Flaccus,
for it was he who won the battle." Cassius turned to the general. "You
have Rome's eternal thanks Flaccus, and I embrace you as my own brother!" He
clasped Flaccus arms. "I love ya bro! You're the greatest!"
Flaccus returned the affection. "You are too cool, sire!"

Later that night, Flaccus arrived in the large tent set aside for the
reception party for the VIPs from Rome. He tried his best to wash the blood
from his hands, as the music group Synaulia played Roman music in the
background. "Flaccus!" someone called. He turned to see who it was. It was
Cassius. "Come General, some senators wish to meet you."
Cassius led Flaccus through the tent to a gaggle of politicans, and presented
him to two of them. "General, this is Senator Lucius Equitus Cincinnatus and
Senator Apollonius Formosanus. "Sirs", said Flaccus, with a nod. Senator
Cincinnatus, Roman to the core and poised with dignity, nodded at Flaccus,
while the other senator, bearded and weird and freaky looking, looked at him
with disdain. "Beware of Formosanus", Cassius warned, "or he'll fill you up
with the noxious controlled substances he used in his youth, and one morning
you'll wake up crying, 'Utopian anarcho-socialist collective! Utopian
anarcho-socialist collective!'." Cincinnatus laughed at this joke, but
Formosanus was not amused. "And why not?", Formosanus whined. "Rome after
all was founded as a utopian anarcho-socialist collective!"
"Oh, horse manure", protested Cincinnatus, "it was founded as a monarchy!
Haven't you read Livy, Plutarch, the poet Virgil, the opening of Tacitus'
Annals?" Formosanus huffed. "I do not subscribe to the imperialist
propoganda of the militaristic, fascist state!" Cassius intervened. "Let me
rescue you Flaccus!", he said as he pulled Flaccus away, leaving the two
senators to argue.
When they were out of earshot, Cassius said to him, "Flaccus, politics
is not like the army. You do not simply command and see obedience. The
senators scheme and backstab. You and I have to save Rome from the
politicians, who are destroying Rome!"
"You mean they are doing a better job at that then they have for the last
nine hundred years?", Flaccus asked.
Cassius smiled. "Well, it seems that way. Can I count on you for support
when....the inevitable happens?" Now Flaccus felt uncomfortable. He had not
given much thought to the day when the emperor would be taken from them.
"Sire", he said, respectfully, "as soon as I can I am going back home, to
Dalmatia."
"Dalmatia!", Cassius exclaimed. "I do not blame you Flaccus. You have
earned your leave! But, leave a trunk packed, in case you have to travel
quickly. I may call for you."

Patricia was peeking out at the festivities from behind the curtain when
the Emperor found her. He sighed. "Such a pity you were not born a man, for
what an emperor you would have made!" "Father!", Patricia exclaimed with joy
upon seeing him. "That is so sweet! Why do you say that?"
"Because you remind me of the statue of Vespasian in the Forum Boarium."
Patricia's smile faded. "Thank you so very much, dearest father", she said
icily. "And how do you feel this evening?"
"I am tired", the old man answered, "and my mind waited down with affairs of
state. There are descisions I must soon make, and you must be ready to
support your betrothed, for he will have need of you." They walked a short
way, and then the old man put his arm around her shoulder. "Patricia, my
child. You do not mind if I call you that do you? For I have always looked
upon you as if you were my own daughter". "Oh, father", Patricia cooed,
squeezing his hand, "you know I feel the same about you!" The emperor looked
troubled. "You mean", he said, "you look at me as if I was your daughter?"
"Oh sheesh", Patricia sighed. "No father! I mean you look at me as your
daughter, and I look at you as my father!" The emperor pondered a moment,
and then his face lit up. "Ah yes! Now I understand!"
"Oh I am so glad father!"
They walked a few more steps, and Patricia's servant girl followed them.
The emperor continued speaking. "You know Patricia, I have felt like this
towards you ever since the day your parents met their tragic, unfortunate
end".
"Uh, father", she interrupted, "they were both executed on your order".
"Ah yes...now I remember. And I also remember, my child, how I grieved
so deeply for you on that day when your first husband died in that horrible
accident.
"He was also executed on your order, father."
"What? Oh, yes, yes. Indeed! Now I remember."
They walked on yet a few more steps, and then the old man spoke again.
"Patricia, since the subject was broached, why can you not be a man?"
Patricia was flabbergasted. "What???"
"I asked you why you could not be a man."
"Uh, well, maybe it is because I'm already a woman, father?"
He smiled. "Ah yes. That must be it. If you were a man, then you and
Cassius could not be engaged, because you would both be gay." Patricia was
trying so hard to look poised, but she turned her head to her servant girl,
and without voice, mouthed the words, "Get me out of here!" The emperor put
his free hand to his chin, in deep, if somewhat senile thought. "On the other
hand", the emperor mused, "according to Formosanus, a woman is a man if she
thinks she is a man. So, if you thought you were a man, you would still be
entering into a gay marriage even though you are a woman." Patricia peered
up at the emperor with the look of a lost little kitten. "Father", she said,
"this conversation started off sweet, turned stupid really quick, and has
been going downhill ever since." The emperor did not seem to notice. "Is it
possible that you could really be a man trapped in a woman's body?"
"NO!", Patricia cried, exasperated, "I am woman, hear me roar, get it?"
The old man apparently did not get it. "But if you were a man trapped in a
woman's body, and you liked men, you would be gay, but could you truely be
called gay if you were physically a woman? And yet, we both know that
sometimes men and women have delusions, and think they are what they are in
fact, not. So, if you were really a man, in a woman's body, but deluded, you
might still think you were a woman when you are in fact a man, but physically
a woman, and if you are deluded, and are in fact a man in a woman's body, but
believing herself to be a woman, is it possible that I, too, may be in
actuality be a woman in a man's body but deluded or in some dream state, and
so believe myself to be a man after all?"

Patricia just stood there, her face showing signs of stress and near
exhaustion. "Father", she said, tenderly, "let's have a game. Let us pretend
that I am a loving, devoted daughter, and that you are a father who is in
full command of his cerebral and intellectual capacities". At that, old
Marcus Cassius Aurelius nodded. "This is a pleasant fiction, isn't it?", he
answered.

This story will eventually continue in chapter three.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Statement on Unofficial Lists
From:	"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@-------->
Date:	Wed, 9 May 2001 06:50:29 -0400

Salve,

I am not going to quote and reply to every point made, but the following
deserves comment.

>>OFS: With all due respect Curatrix, they are *not* premature. None of this
has been done without significant problems, AND I might add pleading mails
to the Senate which except for two very gracious Senators that at least took
the time to respond to my inquiry, (even though they
both repeated their belief that there was not a problem) the issue of
communications has been summarily dismissed except by the cives most
directly impacted.>>

Yahoo had service troubles a few days ago. Most subscribers were affected
for 24 hours or so. Yahoo took the site down (and yes, did post a notice to
that effect) yesterday to complete repairs. This was the first wide-spread
trouble Yahoo has had in our time using them. The fact of the matter is
that *all* e-mail systems are subject to technical trouble.

For you to claim that you were "summarily dismissed" is misleading. The
fact of the matter is that out of 407 current list subscribers, less than 5
are currently reporting (here at least)that they are experiencing troubles.
Now, does that mean that those of you suffering troubles should be pleased?
No, of course not. However, to claim that you are being dismissed because
we do not move to change servers to accommodate the few with troubles is
unfair. The fact is that if a very few are having trouble it makes a lot
more sense for us to figure out why the system is working for so many and
not for you.

As I stated, your discussion list does no harm, I simply want it known that
all such lists are unofficial and that at this time no alternative mail
system is being discussed by myself or my scribes. On a personal note, I do
wish you had chosen to take Consul Germanicus' suggestion and contacted me
directly to discuss the situation, but that seems a moot point now.

Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena
Curatrix Sermonis






Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Statement on Unofficial Lists
From:	Michel <loos@-------->
Date:	Wed, 09 May 2001 08:17:23 -0300

JusticeCMO wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> Having seen the posts today of Gnaeus Salix Astur and Oppius Flacus, I feel
> I need to make an official statement about their current creation of
> "backup" Nova Roma mailing lists. Their actions are, in a word, premature.
>
> Granted, their list(s) are completely unofficial, therefore there is no
> "harm" done, but it also bears noting that they have taken this action
> without so much as the courtesy of an e-mail. ....public or private.....to
> me as Curatrix Sermonis. As the duly elected magistrate in charge of *all*
> official Nova Roman mailing lists, any change that would ever come about
> would need to come through me at any rate. Therefore, while they are free
> to create as many unofficial "backup" lists as they see fit, when and if the
> day come for Nova Roma to alter its mailing programs, that will be done
> through my office, not through any such unofficial lists.
>
> I have stated in past days, and will do so again, that if problems persist
> with yahoo I am quite certain to pursue other avenues. In the meantime,
> however, random citizens creating multiple new lists without so much as a
> nod to the propriety of their actions is not helping the situation. I
> appreciate your attention, and wanted to be quite clear for those of you who
> may be considering joining the "backup" lists that they are not now, nor
> will they ever likely be, made official. if and when a change in mailing
> program is made I will open the floor for suggestions, assistance and
> opinions. For now, however well intended they may be, multiple lists are
> unnecessary and, as I said, quite premature.
>

Dear Queen of Nuba,

The Yahoo Problem goes on for nearly 2 monthes, it is perceived harder
on more secure systems, but not new. Yahoo fails to create unique ids
for its messages which makes any secure system to drop them (thats the
new problem), yahoo uses fake names for its machines which makes even
more secure system to reject them (that s the old one) and after a few
reject yahoo automatically suspends your account.
How can an effort to find a solution to such an important problem be
premature after nearly 2 monthes of complains ?

It seems quite obvious that the only problem here is a crime of majesty,
since this initiative does not come from the Queen.


Salve,

Manius Villius Limitanus


> Vale,
> Priscilla Vedia Serena
> Curatrix Sermonis
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Statement on Unofficial Lists
From:	"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@-------->
Date:	Wed, 9 May 2001 08:02:06 -0400

Salve,

>>Dear Queen of Nuba,>>

If you are determined to attempt to be witty and sarcastic, do try to get
the term right....Naboo. ;P

>>How can an effort to find a solution to such an important problem be
premature after nearly 2 monthes of complains ?>>

When *you* are the only person to have suffered through months of problems,
that reflects a problem with *your* service, not a need to switch the server
necessarily.

>>It seems quite obvious that the only problem here is a crime of majesty,
since this initiative does not come from the Queen.>>

You are certainly free to hold that opinion, wrong as it is. :)

Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena
Curatrix Sermonis

Salve,

Manius Villius Limitanus


> Vale,
> Priscilla Vedia Serena
> Curatrix Sermonis
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Assidui et Capiti Censi: NO
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Wed, 9 May 2001 13:44:41 +0200

Salve Scipio,

> > Yes, but the costs for offices such as Tribunus, Aedilis, Quaestor,
> Praetor or as Vigintisexvir or a regular Senator can be minimized.
> Internet access is overall pretty cheap. They key issue is time, I
> think, and not as much money.
>

scripsisti:
> At this time, some of the costs can be minimized. As this effort
> expands and grows, I suspect the costs involved in acting in the
> different magistracies will also increase (Cheop's Law: no government
> project comes in on time or under budget).
>

This is true, but if NR magistrates can be reembursed for the costs they
make related to Nova Roma, then this problem could be eliminated.

> > I will agree with you here. But all things said and done I suspect
> our views on what a good compromise is differ. For me a compromise tax
> plan would be one that at least included something on people who
> °can't° pay and wouldn't prevent those from not running. For some
> others, this plan is already a compromise. However, every protest thus
> far against the current plan seems to have fallen on deaf ears. Thus;
> I'm afraid I'm sticking to my opinion (and likewise, you'll be
> sticking to yours).
>

scripsisti:
> I really don't think we all agree that this is the definitive answer
> to the tax matter. It is a good framework to start on, but I think
> everyone involved at least recognizes further work is to be done. I
> don't stick to opinions - facts can and have changed my position on
> items. So far, I'm acting on the best information I have available.
>

Of course, but then again I didn't say I had the definitive answer. I merely
said that we will probably not convince each other. A "true answer" doesn't
exist. As for further work, what are your suggestions? Since we have debated
my suggestions, I propose we hear your suggestions, too.

> > As for the former, I don't think I ever advocated this. As for the
> latter, I fully agree.
> >
>
> Again, amici mei, when a demand is made that we accomodate each and
> every possibility that can arise in every facet of our interactions,
> we subject the majority to the tyranny of the minority. You may not
> have explicitly advocated it, but supporting a point of view that
> demands we bend over backwards to please everyone is effectively
> advocating it.
>

Well, not every whim or wish should be fulfilled, nor should it be
legislated, which is rediculous. That is why the question about a minority
group is not something that needs to be voted on by a majority. The
arrangemen for name change in the case of (spritual) transgenders could be
merely an agreement between pater/materfamilias and said gentilis, who then
notify the Censores. So I'm not advocating tyranny of the minority at all;
how would this minority terrorize us through an edict/ a law that only
concerns them, and no one else?

Optime vale!
Draco




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Name-change edict: NO
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Wed, 9 May 2001 13:53:37 +0200

Salve Scipio,

> > I suggest you learn Dutch first before you attack me again on the
> quality of my English. Ik zou wel eens willen weten hoe goed je het
> er
> van af zou brengen.
>
> This was unnecessary ad hominem. Yo hablo espanol, falo portugues,
> nihongo no amari hanashimasu, Ich spreche Deutsche, et cetera - yet I
> also asked you to be clear on concepts without making that kind of
> attack. Making an assertion of authority based on knowing a language
> or two while evading the question at hand is bad form. He asked for
> clarity of definitions, thinking you might have been unclear between
> two similar concepts. Answer the question, and you will lend far more
> force to your argument.
>

I didn't make this attack against you, but I flared against the Curatrix
Sermonis because _she_ had attacked _me_ on the quality of my English,
unnecessarily so, and on a term she understood anyway. I don't assert
authority by knowing an extra language, but people are not to attack me out
of anger on my use of language -- I found her in no position to judge it,
since she only knows one herself. Admittedly, I'm not perfect and shouldn't
have gone into that, but then again, I am a human being with feelings just
like her. What question was I asked to answer, by the way?

> > I feel like I'm repeating myself, but I didn't ask for a vote, and
> never did, and transgenderism is not a mere fantasy, but I think on
> some occasions a nightmare. However, I'm glad you provided some
> reasonable arguments which pull up the level of discussion we're at.
>

scripsisti:
> Mi dispiace, but if I remember correctly the discussions on the
> name-change edict some time ago, the CENTRAL issue with it was the
> fact that this was not voted upon by the citizenry at large. There
> was
> quite a bit of stir made by the Dragon and the Formosan on this.

Well yes. There has only been one case as specified in That Clause, and the
edict didn't work. Instead, the person in casu got turned off, and it was
one of his reasons for resigning. As far as I can tell I've never complained
this was not decided by popular vote. I _did_ complain that an act of one
magistrate could cause so much grief, but that's a different matter.

> BTW,
> please do look up my previous postings on the matter of transgender
> individuals; I have never advocated it being treated as fantasy. In
> fact, I have commented on a friend who actually underwent a gender
> reassignation procedure and on how that individual copes with her
> world.

I remembered.

> It is precisely this type of mischaracterization of arguments
> that carries opinion against you. I for one cannot be convinced by
> arguments that continually misrepresent my position and the positions
> of others on this matter.

Well, but you have mentioned that you wouldn't like the state to support
fantasy or role playing. I may have misinterpreted your words, but not
deliberately, and perhaps it's not all my own mistake, too.

> Also, the ad hominem attacks do very little
> to support, and much to undermine your position. Let us speak with
> Dignitas, even if we may only come to an agreement to disagree.
>

When did I attack you ad hominem? As far as I remember, never.

Vale bene!
Draco

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Name-change edict - response
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Wed, 9 May 2001 13:57:35 +0200

Salve!

(snipped)

> > And no, you do not have the right to 'call a person a name as
> > [you] see fit.' There's courtesy involved. One suspects you would
> > not be pleased if I began to call you, oh, something you found
> > offensive... and refused to stop when you asked. No matter how
> > true it was, I would not have the right to call you that name. The
> > ability, yes. The *right* - no.
>
> Sulla: Your right there is courtesy involved. Considering in Lucia
> Maria's chatroom and message board I was called Swilla behind my back
> yet Sulla to my face makes no difference to me. I believe respect and
> courtesy go both ways, dont you? And, my calling Lucia Maria was not
> disrespectful, it was the name she filled out when she reapplyed to Nova
> Roma when she applied to Nova Roma the first time, back in 1998, and
> when she reapplyed when after she resigned her offices and citizenship.
>

He (yes, he) called you that way because you refused to address him the way
he would have appreciated it. Not justifyable, but quite understandable.

Vale!
Draco




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Re: Name-change edict: NO
From:	"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@-------->
Date:	Wed, 9 May 2001 08:16:24 -0400

Salve,

>>I didn't make this attack against you, but I flared against the Curatrix
Sermonis because _she_ had attacked _me_ on the quality of my English,
unnecessarily so, and on a term she understood anyway. I don't assert
authority by knowing an extra language, but people are not to attack me out
of anger on my use of language -- I found her in no position to judge it,
since she only knows one herself. Admittedly, I'm not perfect and shouldn't
have gone into that, but then again, I am a human being with feelings just
like her. What question was I asked to answer, by the way?>>

I did not attack you, I corrected you. I am afraid I must do so again, as
you are in error above. I am, in fact, fluent in more than one language.

Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena
Curatrix Sermonis





Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Digest Number 1391
From:	"william wheeler" <holyconelia@-------->
Date:	Wed, 09 May 2001 02:50:15 -0000

Salve
Topica is currently unavailable while we rest, feed and groom the hamsters,
install new treadmills and make
various other improvements to the system. Service should
be restored by:

Wednesday, May 9 at 06:00 AM PST - (May 9 at 14:00
GMT)

In the meantime – thank you! – we appreciate your patience
and good humor. Comments for us? Your
feedback is always welcome.











Salvete Oppi Flacci et Quiritibus;

Since there are some other citizens who are worried about our mail
problem I have taken your advice.

I have started a list at Topica for the purpose of discussing our mail
problems and seeking a soulation.

The new list can be found at
http://www.topica.com/lists/NRmail

This is an unoffical list for any Citizens who wish to discuss the
problems we are having with Yahoo groups, and to look into
alternitives to Yahoo, so that in the event we do have to switch to a
different service the alternitives will allready be investigated.

Starting a list at Topica is NOT an endorsement that we should move
our lists there. It is no more than a place away from Yahoo's problems.

So now that we have an unoffical list I invite all intrested citizens
to join it. (Then we won't bore the rest of you with a bunch of
nerdspeak) ;o)

Valete
L. Sicinius Drusus


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] site URL's
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Marcos=20Boehme?= <marminius@-------->
Date:	Tue, 8 May 2001 20:59:36 -0300 (ART)

Salvete

It seems that we dont have a Temple of Ceres.
What are the formalities than need to be accomplished
to build a official NR Virtual Temple?
The ancient Temple of Ceres was build by a
Aedile(Aedes meaning Temple).

Marcus Arminius Maior
Aedilis Plebis

--- Lucius Equitius <vze23hw7@--------> escreveu: >
Salvete, Quirites
>
http://www.geocities.com/westhollywood/heights/4617/asclep.html
> Aesculapius
>
http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/entrance_temple_apollo.htm
> Apollo
>
http://pagan.drak.net/lolandrea/entrance_temple_dionysos.htm
> Bacchus
>
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Sparta/7249/Temple.html
> Castor and Pollux
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~domusludus/temple/
> Juno
>
> http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/OLYMPUS/
> Jupiter
>
http://members.nbci.com/mars_ultor/culture/myth/mars/marsfrm.htm
> Mars
>
http://www.geocities.com/westhollywood/heights/4617/mercury.html
> Mercury
>
http://www.geocities.com/westhollywood/heights/4617/pomotemp.html
> Pomona and Vertumnus
>
> Bene omnibus nobis
> Valete, Flamen Martialis L Equitius Cincinnatus


_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! GeoCities
Tenha seu lugar na Web. Construa hoje mesmo sua home page no Yahoo! GeoCites. É fácil e grátis!
http://br.geocities.yahoo.com/

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] GLADIATOR--The Nova Roma Version, chap.1
From:	"Raina Faolan" <GuruPoet@-------->
Date:	Tue, 08 May 2001 18:40:23 -0400

Salve,

*Chuckles* I second the motion, I'd love to see what Nerva could do with
Salix as a character.

Vale,
Aeternia


>From: Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: novaroma@--------
>Subject: Re: [novaroma] GLADIATOR--The Nova Roma Version, chap.1
>Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 15:28:45 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Salvete omnes.
>
>Bravo, Cassie!
>
>I had a great time reading your story. But I think there's a small
>flaw, hardly perceptible, that makes it close to perfection but not
>reaching it yet.
>
>The problem has to do with having missed a vital character to the
>story: ME! ;-)
>
>I hope you'll fix this flaw in chapter II :-].
>
>
>
>
>=====
>Bene Valete!
>Gnaeus Salix Astur.
>Civis romanus.
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
>http://auctions.yahoo.com/

_________________________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] GLADIATOR--The Nova Roma Version, chap.1
From:	"Raina Faolan" <GuruPoet@-------->
Date:	Tue, 08 May 2001 18:05:09 -0400

Salve,

I loved it! What will the bards think of next eh?

Vale,
Aeternia


>From: gcassiusnerva@--------
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: forthemuses@--------, novaroma@--------
>Subject: [novaroma] GLADIATOR--The Nova Roma Version, chap.1
>Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 17:25:33 EDT
>
>GLADIATOR---The Nova Roma Version, by Gaius Cassius Nerva
>
> At it's height, the Roman Empire was big. Really big. From
>Brittania
>to the ancient waters of Mesopotamia, from the forests of Germany to the
>deserts of Africa, millions of people lived their lives under the rule of
>the Emperors.
> In the year 180, the campaign of the wise old Emperor Marcus Cassius
>Aurelius against the Germanic tribes was coming to a close. Only one
>stronghold stands in the way of univeral peace throughout the Empire.
>
>Chapter One---The Dogs of War.
>
> The cold northern air blew mournfully through the trees on a dreary
>morning as General Oppius Flaccus left his command tent. Today it will be
>decided, he thought to himself as he made his way down the slope to his
>army,
>lined up in battle formation and awaiting his command. Behind him, well to
>the rear of the lines on the slope sat a grey haired man in a purple cloak,
>the wise old emperor Marcus Cassius Aurelius. The emperor was like a
>father
>figure to Oppius Flaccus, who now turned to take one last look at the old
>but
>yet commanding figure, surrounded by his Praetorian Guard.
>Flaccus saluted, and the Emperor raised his hand and nodded, for he had
>full
>confidence in his general and his army, and knew that today, the long war
>would finally be over. Finally over, the emperor thought, and then the
>real
>problem could be faced.
> When he saw the Emperor nod, Flaccus turned---and slipped in the mud.
>"Ow!" he cried as he tumbled down the rest of the hill. Over stones and
>through slippery mud trails he went, rolling over and over, until finally,
>he
>slammed into the legs of three soldiers in the rear line, knocking several
>of
>them over. "Oooof!" Flaccus quickly got up and helped some of the fallen
>troops rise to their feet. "Ahhh!", Flaccus exhaled as he stretched his
>arms. "That felt good! You men were not expecting that, were you?"
>"No sir!" they answered in unison. Flaccus smiled. "Well, that's why I
>did
>it, to show you men that attack in the rear can be swift and to remind you
>to
>be ever alert!"
>"Yes sir!" the men replied.
>"Will you remember what we learned today?"
>"Yes sir!"
>"Excellent!" Flaccus bellowed, slapping one on the arm. "Carry on!"
>"Yes sir!"
> Flaccus tried not to limp as he walked through the lines of soldiers who
>by
>now were raising a cheer to their general. A word of encouragement here, a
>slap on the shoulder there, Flaccus instilled confidence in his men as he
>made his way through the ranks, until he finally arrived to where his staff
>and Caius Mucius Hadrianus, his cavalry commander, were waiting. Also
>there
>was Quintus Sertorius, his second in command. "The men look ready for a
>fight!", he said, shaking Sertorius' hand. Sertorius nodded, and then
>frowned at something he saw. "Soldier!", he hollered, "I ordered those
>those
>three forward ballistae moved back!"
>"The range is good enough", Flaccus said, cutting him off.
>Quintus Sertorius started to protest. "But general, the cavalry..."
>"The range is good Quintus", said Flaccus, and Sertorius held his peace.
>Flaccus looked forward towards the trees where the enemy position was.
>"How
>long has Limitanus been gone?"
>"About two hours sir!", replied Sertorius. "Do you think the Germans will
>fight, General?"
>"We will soon know", Flaccus replied.
> The words were barely out of Sertorius' mouth when a lookout
>shouted,"Sir! Rider coming!" From out of the trees opposite the Roman
>forces, a man in a Roman uniform on a horse appeared. "It's Limitanus!",
>said Sertorius. "He'll tell us what their answer is!" The men in the
>front
>line parted to allow the horse to come through, and Flaccus and Sertorius
>ran
>to meet the messenger. "Limitanus! What news?", asked Flaccus, taking the
>bridle. But Limitanus made no answer. Flaccus frowned. "Limitanus?"
>Flaccus reached out to take the rider's arm, and the arm came off in his
>hand! "What the f........?" Then, the other arm fell off. "Oh, gods!",
>exclaimed Flaccus. Then, the head bobbled, and fell into the mud with a
>splat. "Ewwwwwwww", blanched Sertorius, turning his head. Both legs of
>the
>horseman fell off next, and finally, the torso rolled off the horse and
>fell
>to the ground. Flaccus' eyes bulged. "Yuk!"
>"General?", asked Sertorius, feeling ill.
>"Yes?"
>"Does this mean their answer is no?"
> Flaccus did not have to respond, for at that moment, the German horde
>appeared. A mob of big, ugly, hairy barbarians, covered with mud and filth
>and brandishing swords and nasty looking axes moved out of the trees and
>stood their ground opposite the Roman army, yelling and hollering.
>"Don't these people know when they're conquered?" asked Sertorius.
>"Don't these people ever take a bath?", exclaimed Flaccus. And then one of
>the Germans, bigger, uglier, and dirtier than the rest, came out in front
>of
>the horde. Waving his axe over his head, he shouted across the field,
>"Römerinnen! Sie sind häßlich, sie sind kleinen mädchen, unt sie haben
>sehr
>winzigen penisse! Schlägerei und Würfel!"
> Flaccus spit. "Does anyone know what the heck that barbarian said?"
>he
>asked. Quintus Sertorius thought a moment, and answered, "I think he said,
>'Römerinnen! Sie sind häßlich, sie sind kleinen mädchen, unt sie haben
>sehr
>winzigen penisse! Schlägerei und Würfel!" Flaccus rolled his eyes.
>"Quintus?"
>"Yes General?"
>"SHUT UP!"
>Yes General!"
>Flaccus turned towards his officers. "Get that German's words translated,
>so
>the Curatex Sermonem doesn't get mad."
>
> Flaccus called for his horse, which a soldier brought at once.
>Before
>mounting, he knelt down and picked up a handful of dirt. It was then he
>noticed the dog watching him. It was a white dog with black spots, and it
>was looking at Flaccus anxiously. Flaccus mounted the horse. "Wait for
>the
>signal. When you see the signal, commence with the attack!" Quintus
>nodded,
>and Flaccus, with cavalry commander Hadrianus, rode off down the line to
>join
>the cavalry force over beyond the German position, and the dog ran along
>behind him.
> When they had arrived at the cavalry position, Hadrianus ordered the
>cavalry into their formation. Then Flaccus addressed the troops. "In a
>few
>weeks, we will all be home!" Cheers from the men, and he continued, "If
>you
>find yourselves alone, riding through fields, do not be troubled, for you
>have merely missed the battlefield! Get on the Vindabona turnpike heading
>east towards Aquincum, take exit 27, and you will be back in no time!
>Understood?"
>"Yes Commander!" the horsemen yelled. "And remember," Flaccus concluded,
>"that what we do here today will echo in the pages of history. So guys,
>please, PLEASE win this one, ok?"
>"Yes Commander!"
> Flaccus gave the order, and an archer fired the flaming signal arrow
>up
>through the trees. Then, they waited for the sound of the battle
>commencing.
> But they did not have to wait too long..... A flaming ball filled with
>oil,
>fired from a Roman ballista came in with a WHOOSH! and exploded on a tree
>trunk, and turning one of the cavalrymen into a shrieking mass of flame!
>"Holy S---!", Hadrianus exclaimed to Flaccus, "Quintus told you those
>ballistae were too far forward!" And immediately a large stone flew into
>the
>formation, spattering another cavalryman's brians out. "Let's get out of
>here!", Flaccus cried. "Attack!!!!" And the cavalry surged forward. As
>the waves come crashing onto the shore, the Roman cavalry, with Flaccus and
>Hadrianus at the center, thundered onward through the now-burning forest,
>ignited by the Roman fire balls. The Romans made use of dogs, who would
>find
>the ways through the fire to the enemy. But the white dog with black spots
>was bolting off in the opposite direction from the battle! "Come back
>here,
>you damn dog!", ordered Flaccus, but the dog just ran off till he was out
>of
>sight. Another fireball fell into the line, turning another soldier into a
>screaming human torch. "The range is good Quintus!", Hadrianus yelled to
>Flaccus, mimicking the general's voice in mockery, "The range is good,
>Quintus! I HOPE THEY WRITE THAT ON YOUR SARCOPHAGUS!"
> But even without their canine guide, the cavalry came up behind the
>Germans. The battle was already fiercely underway, the air full of shrieks
>and cries and shouts as thousands of men hammered at each other in the
>butchery of combat. Heads and other body parts were flying into the air,
>and
>men were cleaved by swords and impaled by spears. And General Oppius
>Flaccus, leading the cavalry, brandished his polished sword, and with a
>battle cry horrible to the ears of the surprsied Germans, hacked off the
>top
>of a German head, sending the scalp flying and brain debris spurting. On
>and
>on Flaccus went, hacking off heads. Flaccus enjoyed the exhileration of
>battle, his saliva drooling out of the sides of his mouth as he went on
>hacking on bodies and shields, drinking in this orgy of human destruction,
>this veritable feast of Mars!
>
>Then his horse fell.
>
>Flaccus somersaulted and hit the earth with a deep thud. "Ow!", he yelled,
>"now this sucks!" A German appeared above him, lifting his battle ax over
>his head in order to split open Flaccus' skull, but Flaccus swung his sword
>forst, tearing the barbarian's right leg off. As he rose and thrust his
>sword through the foe's back, another barbarian came up from the left, and
>swung his sword hoping to sever Flaccus head from his neck. But mighty
>Flaccus ducked in the nick of time. The German blade swooshed harmlessly
>over his head, and Flaccus knocked his attacker over with a shoulder to the
>gut. When the barbarian hit the dirt on his back, Flaccus thrust his sword
>downward into his throat. A sickening gurgling sound was heard as the
>blood
>spewed like a fountain. Suddenly, Flaccus felt a body behind him! With a
>yell of fury he spun around, lifted his blade---and drove it into the chest
>of his own cavalry commander, Hadrianus. The cavalryman, with the sword
>sticking out of his chest fell, his eyes open wide in shock and surprise.
>"Ooops", the horrified Flaccus gasped.
>"You stupid, clumsy dimwit!", Hadrianus exclaimed as his eyes darkened.
>And
>with that, the noble Hadrianus was dead.
>Flaccus glanced to the right, then to the left, wondering if any of his men
>had seen his goof. But all the Roman soldiers were occupied with their own
>fighting. Satisfied he had not been seen, Flaccus pulled the sword from
>Hadrianus chest, and then, calling to all his soldiers, cried out, "Look!
>The Germans killed Hadrianus! Those bastards!" The Romans shouted in fury
>at the death of their beloved cavalry leader, and pressed the attack home
>with renewed determination.
>
> But the Germans fought bravely, and many, many Romans met their
>deaths
>at the barbarians hands. Flaccus soon found himself getting surrounded,
>and
>with maniacal fury, he thrust and hacked and jabbed and cut and walloped.
>But he was tiring, as were the men of his army. And when it appeared that
>the battle would be indecisive, and that he himself would soon be killed,
>Flaccus' opponent was suddenly pounced on by a snarling white,
>black-spotted
>beast. The dog had returned! And not just his dog, but a multitude of
>white
>dogs with black spots leapt out of the trees and onto the barbarians,
>tearing
>with their canines into the writes and legs of the German foe! It
>appeared
>that there was a legion of such animals! And with this reinforcement, the
>Romans soon won the day. Flaccus strode up behind the big barbarian
>leader,
>who was surrounded by the corpses of many Roman soldiers, and tapped him on
>the shoulder. "Excuse me!", he said. And when the barbarian leader turned
>around, Flaccus drove his dagger into his head, through the eye and brain,
>finishing only when the dagger point had penetrated to the other side of
>the
>man's head. The barbarian lay dead, oozing blood and brain tissue, while
>his
>body jerked and convulsed in it's death throes.
> Now the battle, for all intents and purposes, was over. There was
>little action now, only the exhausted men walking about in a daze, sitting
>on
>the ground to catch their breath, or to finish off some fallen enemy.
>"Rome is victorius!", yelled Flaccus. And the Romans let up a great cheer.
>
> Flaccus, nearly exhausted from the fighting, limped back to the Roman
>lines where the reserves were, as the other combatants straggled in.
>There,
>he met Quintus Sertorius, covered in dirt and mud and as worn out as
>himself.
> Quintus saluted his general. "Congratulations sir! You have won a great
>victory! The enemy force is destroyed!" Flaccus smiled, clasped Quintus'
>shoulder, and looked up the hill. There, the old Emperor looked down on
>them. He looked haggered and tired, as though he had been in the fighting
>himself. The emperor nodded to Flaccus, and turned on his horse and rode
>back to his tent, his Praetorian guard escorting him.
>"It looked for a while like we would not suceed today", Quintus said. "But
>we managed, didn't we sir! Still, we nearly lost you General!"
>"Yes", Flaccus replied, "I nearly met my end today. But for those dogs!
>All
>those spotted dogs saved the day."
>Quintus Sertorius sighed. "I think those dogs are dalmatians."
>Flaccus was startled. "Dalmatians? Where did they all come from from?"
>Quintus looked puzzled and shook his head,. "From Dalmatia, sir?"
>"Oh, confound it, Quintus! I'm from the province of Dalmatia, and I have
>never seen those dogs before!"
>Quintus sighed. "I don't know where they come from general, but we counted
>one hundred and one of them sir!"
>"Very well", Flaccus wearily responded. "Just make sure they do not get
>near
>the emperor. You know he is absolutely terrified of dogs."
>"Only small dogs sir!", Quintus answered.
>"Be that as it may", interjected Flaccus, "make sure they do not get near
>the
>Emperor's tent!"
>"Yes sir!"
>Flaccus managed a weary smile. "Now Quintus, let us see to our men and
>casualites, and then prepare for tonight's victory feast!
>
>This story will eventually continue in chapter 2.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Comitia Vote
From:	"Raina Faolan" <GuruPoet@-------->
Date:	Tue, 08 May 2001 17:39:47 -0400

Salvete,

Excuse me, interupting once more. To refer Priscilla Vedia Serena as "Her
Royal majesty Queen of Naboo", is discourteous and rude. From the recent
posts it seemed the Curatrix was making an example using that name not
meaning everyone start calling her that! Now back to the scheduled debate,
my apologies if anyone feels slighted by my words.

Valete,
Aeternia



>From: marcusaemiliusscaurus@--------
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: novaroma@--------
>Subject: [novaroma] Re: Comitia Vote
>Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 05:50:32 -0000
>
>
>Salve Her Majesty Queen of Naboo, Salvete cives,
>
>There. That cost me nothing. It did not pain me. Therefore, if
>Priscilla Vedia Serena wishes to continue being known by the above
>name, just say so, and I will be happy to honour that wish.
>
>
> > >>Why put forth legislation for a group with no people (anymore) in
>it?>>
> > On the contrary, it is an excellent law BECAUSE it includes this
>clause.
> > Face it, if one *truly* sees oneself as a man trapped in a woman's
>body (or
> > vice versa) life is going to be "difficult" on a vast number of
>levels.
>
>And that makes it OK to make life even more difficult?
>
> > Take a step back and get some perspective here. All that is being
>asked is
> > that *if* a person has a serious gender issue they take it up in
>their real
> > everyday life as well as here in Nova Roma. To suggest that we
>ought to
> > make it easy for any person to be HERE hat they are NOT in the real
>world is
> > to equate Nova Roma to little more than a fantasy or a game.
>
>Why? I think it would show that Nova Roma can work for the
>individual as well as the whole. After all, just because a macro-
>nation makes it difficult, that is no excuse for us to do the same.
>
> > As for your other comment about "slander", I suggest you check your
> > definitions. For starters, slander applies to oral statements and
>libel to
> > written ones. In either event, the key to something qualifying as
>either is
> > that the statements NOT be true. I am 100% sure that if you were
>to travel
> > to Maria's home and conduct a visual inspection you will find she
>is 100%
> > female, mental status notwithstanding.
>
>I am certain that you realised what he meant.
>
> > Now, you may still say it is "pestering" to refer to her as a
>female.
> > Hmmmm. According to that logic, if I now wish to be known as Her
>Royal
> > Majesty Queen of Naboo you will most gladly do so, correct?. It
>doesn't
> > matter that I am not royalty, nor that Naboo does not exist. If
>that is
> > what I wish to be called, then according to your arguments you
>ought to be
> > more than willing to honor my request. To not do so would
>be "pestering"
> > me, would it not?
>
>See above
>
> > True repression of minorities would be our not acknowledging those
>with
> > legitimate transgender issues. This law does recognize them. It
>simply
> > requires that they be acknowledged as such across the board and not
>just
> > here in Nova Roma. For a true transgendered individual, one would
>think
> > they would be striving for such consistency and would welcome it.
>
>And if they fail to get macronational recognition? Do they then have
>to remain that which they don't which to be here as well?
>
>Bene valete,
>Marcus Scribonius Curio Britannicus.
>

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Subject:	[novaroma] Help Needed
From:	CW2ShaneEvans@--------
Date:	Tue, 8 May 2001 14:09:29 EDT

Dear friends,
As many of you know, I have been working on a book about reenacting. It's
history from antiquity to present, why we reenact the various periods, and an
attempt at educating the public about reenacting and living history. A close
friend mentioned to me that the title of the book I had considered was
lacking, and so I am going to put out this poll to the rest of you, and ask
that you share your thoughts on a good title for this book. Please just send
them to me directly, so we can avoid an unwanted email flood, and I will let
everyone know who's title I chose for the book. You'll even get a free copy
for your contributions. :o)

Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Statement on Unofficial Lists
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Wed, 9 May 2001 09:01:28 -0400

Salve

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Oppius Flaccus Severus [mailto:oppiusflaccus@--------]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 11:08 PM
>
> OFS: With all due respect Curatrix, they are *not*
> premature. None of this has been done without significant
> problems, AND I might add pleading mails to the Senate
> which except for two very gracious Senators that at least
> took the time to respond to my inquiry, (even though they
> both repeated their belief that there was not a problem)
> the issue of communications has been summarily dismissed
> except by the cives most directly impacted.

Speaking as one of the few people who has himself been affected by the
problem with yahoogroups these last few days, allow me to state that this is
a non-crisis. (Forgive my "summary dismissal" of your claim, but it is
true.)

What, precisely, has happened? A handful of people either missed a few
emails, or had their email delayed several hours. This is supposed to be a
crisis that will rock our Republic to its very foundations? Nonsense. This
is simply one of the side effects of the internet; if you honestly think
that topica.com (or any other alternative) is somehow inherently more
reliable than yahoogroups.com, you are wrong. ALL technology, and internet
technology especially, and FREE internet technology doubly especially, is
subject to periods of unreliability. It is the nature of the beast. Even the
novaroma.org email server is subject to periodic outages and other problems,
as I can personally attest.

Indeed, I would point out that even more old-fashioned forms of
communication such as the US Postal Service, have proven to be unreliable
for us in recent days, of which I believe you are well aware, Oppius
Flaccus. NO system of communication is perfect, and to simply change at the
first sign of trouble is poor policy and wasteful.

Not to mention the fact that the decision to switch email list hosts is
properly that of the Curatrix Sermonem ("responsible for the maintenance and
moderation of the official email discussion list(s)"), although she could
certainly be directed to do so by the Senate. It is certainly NOT the job of
a bunch of self-appointed "Pullus Minimus"'s running off and muddying the
waters with alternative unofficial email lists and alarmist claims of
catastrophy.

Indeed, Oppius Flaccus, one would think you have more than enough duties to
keep yourself occupied, without taking on the added responsibility of
"shadow" curator sermonum. You are, as I recall, Neptunis Templi Sacerdotes,
Legatus to the Propaetor of Boreoccidentalis Provincia, scribus to the
Curator Araneum (in charge of the Tabularium, which has STILL not been
updated with the results of our last election, nor many magisterial edicta),
retarius of the Sodalitas Musarum, and probably one or two more than I'm
forgetting, not to mention being a candidate for Quaestor.

Not bad for someone who's been here less than six months, but perhaps you
should better tend to your own plethora of offices and positions before you
start trying to do others' jobs for them as well.

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org




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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Re: Name-change edict: NO
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Wed, 9 May 2001 09:59:20 -0400

Salvete

> -----Original Message-----
> From: S. Apollonius Draco [mailto:hendrik.meuleman@--------]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 7:54 AM
>
> Well yes. There has only been one case as specified in That Clause, and
the
> edict didn't work. Instead, the person in casu got turned off, and it was
> one of his reasons for resigning.

Actually, this is flat-out wrong. I received a private email from Maria V.
the other day (and by the way, I call her that because it is her real-world
name, and since she is no longer a Citizen I try to avoid using Roman names
when referring to former Citizens), in which she asked me to convey the
following:

"Could you please post to the List, by way of clarification, that my
resignation was for reasons completely unrelated to the Name-change
Edict...? I'd rather not be remembered as having walked off in a snit
because I didn't get my way..."

That's straight from the source, and I can confirm what she says is true,
because she and I had a number of conversations in the days leading up to
her decision to leave us.

So, no; the wording in the name-change edict has not driven anyone from our
ranks. Care to try again, young Draco?

Next year in the Forum!

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Name-change edict: NO
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Wed, 9 May 2001 16:11:26 +0200

Salve!

>
> >>I didn't make this attack against you, but I flared against the Curatrix
> Sermonis because _she_ had attacked _me_ on the quality of my English,
> unnecessarily so, and on a term she understood anyway. I don't assert
> authority by knowing an extra language, but people are not to attack me
out
> of anger on my use of language -- I found her in no position to judge it,
> since she only knows one herself. Admittedly, I'm not perfect and
shouldn't
> have gone into that, but then again, I am a human being with feelings just
> like her. What question was I asked to answer, by the way?>>
>
> I did not attack you, I corrected you. I am afraid I must do so again, as
> you are in error above. I am, in fact, fluent in more than one language.
>

Oh, good! I stand corrected.

Vale bene,
Draco





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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Name-change edict: NO
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Wed, 9 May 2001 16:13:35 +0200

Salve O Consul,

> > Well yes. There has only been one case as specified in That Clause, and
> the
> > edict didn't work. Instead, the person in casu got turned off, and it
was
> > one of his reasons for resigning.
>
> Actually, this is flat-out wrong. I received a private email from Maria V.

Persistent...

> the other day (and by the way, I call her that because it is her
real-world
> name, and since she is no longer a Citizen I try to avoid using Roman
names
> when referring to former Citizens), in which she asked me to convey the
> following:
>
> "Could you please post to the List, by way of clarification, that my
> resignation was for reasons completely unrelated to the Name-change
> Edict...? I'd rather not be remembered as having walked off in a snit
> because I didn't get my way..."
>
> That's straight from the source, and I can confirm what she says is true,
> because she and I had a number of conversations in the days leading up to
> her decision to leave us.
>
> So, no; the wording in the name-change edict has not driven anyone from
our
> ranks. Care to try again, young Draco?
>

*shrugs* Ok, I was wrong. But please don't belittle me, ok?

Vale bene!
Draco




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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Statement on Unofficial Lists
From:	lsicinius@--------
Date:	Wed, 09 May 2001 14:43:37 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@n...>
wrote:
> Salve

Snip

> Not to mention the fact that the decision to switch email list
hosts is
> properly that of the Curatrix Sermonem ("responsible for the
maintenance and
> moderation of the official email discussion list(s)"), although she
could
> certainly be directed to do so by the Senate. It is certainly NOT
the job of
> a bunch of self-appointed "Pullus Minimus"'s running off and
muddying the
> waters with alternative unofficial email lists and alarmist claims
of
> catastrophy.
>

Salvete,

Yahoogroups Terms of service
...

12. MODIFICATIONS TO SERVICE


Yahoo reserves the right at any time and from time to time to modify
or discontinue, temporarily or permanently, the Service (or any part
thereof) with or without notice. You agree that Yahoo shall not be
liable to you or to any third party for any modification, suspension
or discontinuance of the Service.


13. TERMINATION


You agree that Yahoo, in its sole discretion, may terminate your
password, account (or any part thereof) or use of the Service, and
remove and discard any Content within the Service, for any reason,
including, without limitation, for lack of use or if Yahoo believes
that you have violated or acted inconsistently with the letter or
spirit of the TOS. Yahoo may also in its sole discretion and at any
time discontinue providing the Service, or any part thereof, with or
without notice. You agree that any termination of your access to the
Service under any provision of this TOS may be effected without prior
notice, and acknowledge and agree that Yahoo may immediately
deactivate or delete your account and all related information and
files in your account and/or bar any further access to such files or
the Service. Further, you agree that Yahoo shall not be liable to you
or any third-party for any termination of your access to the Service

We are depending on a vital service that a third party can modify or
discontinue at any time. Yahoo is like many dot.coms, recent changes
in the US economy have resulted in their income and stock value
decreasing. Companies with these problems are allways looking for
ways to cut costs, and reducing or eliminating a non-vital service is
one way of cutting costs.

Yahoogroups is NOT a core Yahoo service, it is a promotional tool,
and services that are provided for this reason are often at the top
of the list when cutbacks are made. It is possible that these
cutbacks have allready bagun, that the recent problems are due to
decreased funding for Yahoogroups. Rember they don't have to notify
us about changes to the service.

The Curator Sermonis has indicated that she would be willing to look
at the alternitives should Yahoo fail to meet our needs. the purpose
of NRmail is to prepare such an alternitive BEFORE yahoo degrades or
cancels their service. Perhaps even to come up with a better service
than we now have.

I have NO intention of trying to bypass anyone in the decession of
changing to a different service. I Intend to create an alternitive,
and I don't mean just switch to another free service who's TOS is
just as bad as Yahoos. My goal is nothing less than a software
package that will allow Nova Roma to be independant of the whims of
third party venders of free services. Deciding to create this package
is my decession, the option of using it is up to others.

As for "Pullus Minimus" I'd rather be Chicken Little, than an ostrich.

Vale
L. Sicinius Drusus






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Subject:	[novaroma] ATTN (Religio Romana): ante diem VII Idus Maias (May 9th)
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <amg@-------->
Date:	Wed, 9 May 2001 15:59:27 +0100

Salvete

Today is one of the dies nefasti (N), a day on which no legal action can
take place.

Today is the first day of the Lemuria in honour of the Lemures. The Lemures
are the haunting ghosts of the dead, usually of wicked people or of those
who did not receive the proper
rites after death. These are not received by the Gods of the Underworld and
as such are condemned to roam and to haunt the living.
But today the ghosts that concern us are those of the Manes themselves, who
come from underworld ruled by Dis to take from the living what his theirs by
right.
The Lemuria are held on 3 consecutive odd numbered days: 9, 11 and 13 May.
Rites are performed at home by the "paterfamilias" (family father) and these
are well documented in [Ovid, Fasti, V.419-454].
At night, the paterfamilias gets up from bed and walks barefoot throughout
the
house, making the "mano fica" gesture. He washes his hands with water
brought from a spring. He takes some black beans. He throws the beans over
his shoulder without looking back, while saying nine times:

"haec ego mitto, redimo meque meosque fabis"
Tr. "These I cast; with these beans I redeem myself and mine [i.e. 'my
family']".

He then performs another ablution washing the hands and clashes some bronze
pieces. He then asks the ghosts to go away by saying nine times:

"Manes exite paterni"
Tr. "Manes of our ancestors, go away!".

After this he looks back and the Lemures are surely gone, for the rites were
correctly accomplished and the dead have taken what is theirs by right.

As a personal comment, some say that those black beans are offered in place
of real human lives,
offered by our ancestors in remote times. In fact, some Greek Pytagorean and
Orphic 'theologoi' say that beans are charged with life, and they consider
as "nefas" to eat them.

The Vestals are preparing the mola salsa since May 7th and this will
continue until May 14th.

I remind you that Maius is the month of the old and the dead. Maia, the
Lares and the Manes and their mother (Mater Larum) are specially honoured.

Valete bene in pace deorum
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex




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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Statement on Unofficial Lists
From:	"Oppius Flaccus Severus" <oppiusflaccus@-------->
Date:	Wed, 9 May 2001 08:05:51 -0700

Salve Consul;

I will save us all the trouble of multiple
responses to this, but responding to your
post directly. Curatrix -my summary thoughts
are included here as well. No offence if I
don't spend further cycles replying to you
separately.
-----Original Message-----
From: Flavius Vedius Germanicus [mailto:germanicus@--------]
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 6:01 AM
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: RE: [novaroma] Statement on Unofficial Lists


<snipped>

Speaking as one of the few people who has himself been affected by the
problem with yahoogroups these last few days, allow me to state that this is
a non-crisis. (Forgive my "summary dismissal" of your claim, but it is
true.)

OFS: No Consul. Communications are a key issue.
You choose to see them differently. I can make
guesses and assumptions as to why you would have
a different opinion, but I shall refrain from
guessing.

What, precisely, has happened? A handful of people either missed a few
emails, or had their email delayed several hours. This is supposed to be a
crisis that will rock our Republic to its very foundations? Nonsense. This
is simply one of the side effects of the internet; if you honestly think
that topica.com (or any other alternative) is somehow inherently more
reliable than yahoogroups.com, you are wrong. ALL technology, and internet
technology especially, and FREE internet technology doubly especially, is
subject to periods of unreliability. It is the nature of the beast. Even the
novaroma.org email server is subject to periodic outages and other problems,
as I can personally attest.

OFS: Yes Consul, this is precisely the issue. *"FREE"* Internet
technology, and servers and systems run outside of our control;
by a company that gets absolutely nothing in return for running
these servers and thus has no vested interest in maintaining
reliability. I am not going to get into 'comparative' technology
discussions with you -it is pointless at this time, nor am I
going to compare our technical resumes or 'understandings' of
networked communications. I will just say this -communications
*can* be reliable it is a matter of desire and effort. That's
part of the point.

Indeed, I would point out that even more old-fashioned forms of
communication such as the US Postal Service, have proven to be unreliable
for us in recent days, of which I believe you are well aware, Oppius
Flaccus. NO system of communication is perfect, and to simply change at the
first sign of trouble is poor policy and wasteful.

OFS: Ah, but again you are the one exaggerating Consul.
Yes, I inquired about a change of venue. As this was not
feasible due to the current lack of viable alternatives
coupled with the desire of the Senate to see it as a
non-issue, I have tried to make an effort with a working
group.

The working group idea has been suggested by others but
never progressed past the discussion phase. Now that a
group has been created, the usual magistrates appear
spouting about their threatened authority. See Consul,
this is *exactly* one of the key issues many have with NR.
The immediate 'swooping' motion to put cement shoes on every
effort, make it 'official' and have it become yet another series
of discussions. FAR be it for a civis or group of cives
to show any sign of initiation that has not been exalted
from on high.


Not to mention the fact that the decision to switch email list hosts is
properly that of the Curatrix Sermonem ("responsible for the maintenance and
moderation of the official email discussion list(s)"), although she could
certainly be directed to do so by the Senate. It is certainly NOT the job of
a bunch of self-appointed "Pullus Minimus"'s running off and muddying the
waters with alternative unofficial email lists and alarmist claims of
catastrophy.

OFS: It's interesting how you graft your own methods on
a message from me that was not there. Reread my previous
post. For that matter, reread Drusus' post. They simply
and frankly state that there is a *wide open for all*
technical discussion taking place regarding possible
alternatives. Any such decisions have to be made by
the 'Powers that Be.' We are all *very* aware of this
clause and expectation. You have stated, Pricilla has
stated it, Audens has stated it....Fear not Consul;
nothing would ever be implemented without months of
discussion, debate, magisterial review, hammering
of those involved, bickering, reasons why we shouldn't,
etc., etc.


Indeed, Oppius Flaccus, one would think you have more than enough duties to
keep yourself occupied, without taking on the added responsibility of
"shadow" curator sermonum. You are, as I recall, Neptunis Templi Sacerdotes,
Legatus to the Propaetor of Boreoccidentalis Provincia, scribus to the
Curator Araneum (in charge of the Tabularium, which has STILL not been
updated with the results of our last election, nor many magisterial edicta),
retarius of the Sodalitas Musarum, and probably one or two more than I'm
forgetting, not to mention being a candidate for Quaestor.

OFS: Well now! I see that it gets more extreme as we progress
through this little diatribe. Well -yes I do have a lot of
'duties.' However in life, there is a concept called 'shifting
priorities.' As I'm sure you've noted recently in your own
life, things do and can shift with the normal ebb and flow of
life. Same thing in NR -issues switch. Now, if I were really
petty I could examine the records of yourself and other
magistrates as well; but personally this seems inappropriate.
Suffice it to say (or you may not suffice it to say, but
I'm not going to say more on the matter publicly,) that there
are issues that some of us deem vitally important.
Also think about this, when cives inquire of their magistrates
they seem to garner much less attention than when
they try to show some initiative. -An interesting
dichotomy.

As far as the Tabularium, I suggest that you check with
Marcus Ocatavius regarding this including the mails that
we have bounced back and forth over duties, updates,
getting the information together, collecting feedback,
etc. Like so many other things here in NR; this was
*not* something that I had or have to do but have tried
to assist with as time allowed. And for the record, I'm
not in charge of 'edicta', only the Senatorial Consultums.
It would be nice to check your data before making accusations.

Not bad for someone who's been here less than six months, but perhaps you
should better tend to your own plethora of offices and positions before you
start trying to do others' jobs for them as well.

OFS: Really Consul? Is having a discussion and turning
in a product for review to the Senate *doing* someone
else's job? Since you and Pricilla by your own statements
think there's no problem here, then who is doing who's
job? Check the posts and the facts Consul. I absolutely
want *no part* of Pricilla's job. I *am* going to work to
find solutions to *legally* present to her and the Senate
for our 'non-problem.'

As far as your veiled point about my length of citizenship,
as you will know it will be six months as of 5/28, which
will be bout 6 days after the votes are tabulated. So for
anyone keeping track, it's less than a week's worth of
time once the vote is completed.

Bene valete,
Oppius

<snipped>

Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Statement on Unofficial Lists
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Wed, 9 May 2001 11:42:05 -0400

Salve

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Oppius Flaccus Severus [mailto:oppiusflaccus@--------]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 11:06 AM
>
> As far as the Tabularium, ... this was
> *not* something that I had or have to do but have tried
> to assist with as time allowed. And for the record, I'm
> not in charge of 'edicta', only the Senatorial Consultums.
> It would be nice to check your data before making accusations.

As a matter of fact, I did. From the Edictum Curatoris Araneum (issued
January 24th of this year by Marcus Octavius Germanicus):

> EX DOMO CURATORIS ARANEUM
>
> <snip>
>
> II. Oppius Flaccus Severus is appointed scriba and will, together
> with myself, keep the Tabularium updated as new edicts are issued.

That comes straight from the archives, and it seems pretty straightforward
to me. Perhaps you would be so kind as to do the job to which you were
appointed, rather than casting aspursions against me merely because I
believe things regarding the official email list of Nova Roma to be handled
by the magistrate elected for that purpose?

Good, organic, bottom-up growth is vital to Nova Roma's growth and
prosperity; I wish we had more of it, opening us to new facets of the Roman
experience. But that does not mean supplanting official institutions already
in place merely because you don't happen to like how they're being run.

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org




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Subject:	[novaroma] ATTN (Religio Romana): addendum to ante diem VII Idus Maias (May 9th)
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <amg@-------->
Date:	Wed, 9 May 2001 16:34:48 +0100

Salvete

For those who don't know what the "mano fico" is, please see the attached
image.

Valete

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] ATTN (Religio Romana): addendum to ante diem VII Idus Maias (May 9th)
From:	"A. Cato" <a.cato@-------->
Date:	Wed, 9 May 2001 11:48:31 -0400

Ave: There was no image attached. But the "mano fico" was a fist with the
thumb shoved between the first and middle finger according to several works
on Ancient Rome. If you could send the image so that people could see just
what it looked like, that would be better than just the worded description
that I provided above.
Ave atque vale, ... A. Cato
Rogator

----- Original Message -----
From: "Antonio Grilo" <amg@-------->
To: <ReligioRomana@-------->; <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 11:34 AM
Subject: [novaroma] ATTN (Religio Romana): addendum to ante diem VII Idus
Maias (May 9th)


>
> Salvete
>
> For those who don't know what the "mano fico" is, please see the attached
> image.
>
> Valete
>
> Antonius Gryllus Graecus
> Pontifex
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>




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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Statement on Unofficial Lists
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Wed, 9 May 2001 10:52:37 -0500 (CDT)

Salve,

> As a matter of fact, I did. From the Edictum Curatoris Araneum (issued
> January 24th of this year by Marcus Octavius Germanicus):
>
> > EX DOMO CURATORIS ARANEUM
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > II. Oppius Flaccus Severus is appointed scriba and will, together
> > with myself, keep the Tabularium updated as new edicts are issued.

Oppius Flaccus has volunteered to work in updating *part* of the
Tabularium, not the whole thing. The tabularium updates are by far
the most tedious task involved in maintaining the site, and I am grateful
for any help I can get in that area, but do not expect anyone to take
on that entire responsibility himself.

In that area which he has been working, Flaccus has performed
extremely well, but all it has earned him is public criticism. I hope
he will be willing to continue in this office and ignore the barbs
and jabs that he has endured because of it.


--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator




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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: ATTN (Religio Romana): addendum to ante diem VII Idus Maias (May 9th)
From:	amg@--------
Date:	Wed, 09 May 2001 15:50:54 -0000

Salve amice Cato

Oh, now I remember! The novaroma mailing list cuts all the
attachments! I have also sent the message to the ReligioRomana
mailing list, which I think lets them pass.

Vale
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex


--- In novaroma@--------, "A. Cato" <a.cato@s...> wrote:
> Ave: There was no image attached. But the "mano fico" was a fist
with the
> thumb shoved between the first and middle finger according to
several works
> on Ancient Rome. If you could send the image so that people could
see just
> what it looked like, that would be better than just the worded
description
> that I provided above.
> Ave atque vale, ... A. Cato
> Rogator
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Antonio Grilo" <amg@-------->
> To: <ReligioRomana@-------->; <novaroma@-------->
> Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 11:34 AM
> Subject: [novaroma] ATTN (Religio Romana): addendum to ante diem
VII Idus
> Maias (May 9th)
>
>
> >
> > Salvete
> >
> > For those who don't know what the "mano fico" is, please see the
attached
> > image.
> >
> > Valete
> >
> > Antonius Gryllus Graecus
> > Pontifex
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >




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Subject:	[novaroma] Final Thoughts on the Communications Issue
From:	"Oppius Flaccus Severus" <oppiusflaccus@-------->
Date:	Wed, 9 May 2001 09:15:31 -0700

Salvete Quiritibus;

As with some other topics, the time has come for me
to summarize and sign off the communication/list
issue. Contrary to what has been said by some
magistrates, there is no move afoot to undermine
anyone's authority, to set up rogue servers or
run amok like 'random citizens.' There is simply
a discussion centering on the technical implications
of communication. The final result of which, will
be formal recommendations (and actual things
that have been *tested*) that can be presented
to the Senate, Curatrix and everyone else
involved in the decision-making process.
The discussion group, as our Curatrix has
aptly pointed out -is 'unofficial.' This is
for focus purposes.

Like so many issues discussed on the NR main list,
there are some of us that see communications
in one way, some another. As you all know, I'm a
vocal proponent of communications in all forms
and types, regardless of channels. This was long
before the 'Yahoo' issue and I will continue
to be so.

In making suggestions, I was one of the cives
that suggested Topica as a possible consideration
as well as other 'in-house' alternatives, which
I obviously prefer. This is a key point of the
list. Now that Topica is in the midst of maintenance
as well - as Drusus has stated it just further underlines
the need for safe, controlled and reliable communications;
that ideally contain a robust feature set as well.

So, when Topica comes back on line :-) there is
a technical focus list there. The discussion is
largely technical, dry and focuses on results-
oriented proposals. There will likely be some
beta platform experimenting and things of that
nature as well. Should anyone else see this as
an issue and wish to contribute, the link is:
http://www.topica.com/lists/NRmail

The latest from Topica states that they will be
back online by 12:00pm PST.

Bene valete,
Oppius




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Subject:	[novaroma] Yahoo list problems
From:	mansker@--------
Date:	Wed, 09 May 2001 17:41:10 -0000

Salve;

I would like to make a point here regarding the list problems with
Yahoo that are currently being debated.

Most of these posts indicate that few people have spoken up on this
list regarding having the problem so there must have not been an
issue. As I have not been posted regarding the issue,experienced
severe difficulty with the Yahoo list for over a week, I would like
to state the following.

Others, like myself, may have also experienced severe difficulty with
the list and just not have made mention of it. I feel that this
problem affected more of the list recipients than those who made
statements regarding the problems, and would bet that a good 30% of
the list had issues.

I would be interested in knowing exactly how many people this outage
affected, as this will help us to get a clearer picture of what is
needed next.

Before I recieve a reply stating that the problems I experienced must
have been due to my computer, I would like to state the following:

Both computers that I currently use were custom made to my specs.
One has 256 megs of ram, a static DSL, and a 20 gig drive, as well as
plenty of additional hardware that insures that I never have a
problem with my web-browsing.

The other is attached to a T1, has 256 megs ram, a 20 gig drive and
is on an NT network. I do not have issues with other
websites/chatrooms/mailing lists that I am on other than Yahoo with
either of my computers.


Bene,

Gaia Flacca Severa




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Yahoo list problems
From:	Michel Loos <loos@-------->
Date:	Wed, 9 May 2001 16:15:12 -0300 (BRT)

On Wed, 9 May 2001 mansker@-------- wrote:

> Salve;
>
> I would like to make a point here regarding the list problems with
> Yahoo that are currently being debated.
>
> Most of these posts indicate that few people have spoken up on this
> list regarding having the problem so there must have not been an
> issue. As I have not been posted regarding the issue,experienced
> severe difficulty with the Yahoo list for over a week, I would like
> to state the following.
>
> Others, like myself, may have also experienced severe difficulty with
> the list and just not have made mention of it. I feel that this
> problem affected more of the list recipients than those who made
> statements regarding the problems, and would bet that a good 30% of
> the list had issues.
>
> I would be interested in knowing exactly how many people this outage
> affected, as this will help us to get a clearer picture of what is
> needed next.
>
> Before I recieve a reply stating that the problems I experienced must
> have been due to my computer, I would like to state the following:
>
> Both computers that I currently use were custom made to my specs.
> One has 256 megs of ram, a static DSL, and a 20 gig drive, as well as
> plenty of additional hardware that insures that I never have a
> problem with my web-browsing.
>
> The other is attached to a T1, has 256 megs ram, a 20 gig drive and
> is on an NT network. I do not have issues with other
> websites/chatrooms/mailing lists that I am on other than Yahoo with
> either of my computers.
>

Salve,

you are exactly the kind of people that are affected by this Yahoo
problem.

Should be not affected: people with home computers connecting by modem to
a lousy ISP which does not check anything for the mail it receives. Or use
some web-mail interface to their ISP.

Computers in a LAN should all be affected since usually LANs are behind
firewalls which won t let pass the misconfigured mails that yahoo sends.

More secure your LAN and less Yahoo mail you receive.

Since the beginning of the problem all Yahoo lists which were former
e-groups lists are affected, pure Yahoo lists were not affected in the
beginning but are now. Non Yahoo based lists and common e-mail have never
been a problem.

Vale,

Manius Villius Limitanus

>
> Bene,
>
> Gaia Flacca Severa
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Pr. Michel Loos | Phone: 55 11 818 3810 p. 216
Inst. de Quimica USP | Fax: 55 11 815 5579
PO Box 26077 05599-970 São Paulo, S SP
Brazil





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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Slavery (was RE: Two issues)
From:	Calpurnia <darta_arelia@-------->
Date:	Wed, 9 May 2001 12:51:56 -0700 (PDT)

> Another item that I think most of us could agree on
> is a statement
> about the Taliban's destruction of Ancient shrines
> in Afganistan, or
> thier law that decrees the death penality for anyone
> who converts to a
> non-Islamic religion. A Citizen of Afganistan faces
> the death penality
> if he embraces the Roman Religio, so this is a
> matter that touches
> Nova Roma.
>
> Vale,
> Drusus

Salve,

I would also like to see a statement against their
treatment of women. Women over there are not allowed
to practice medicine, and are not allowed to see male
doctors. by this there is no medical treatment for the
women of that country. the taliban's laws against
religious freedom are well within their rights, it's
their laws that interfere with human _life_ that i
find the most offensive.

Vale,
Claudia Aucelia Calpurnia

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Census: was Tidying up the Constitution
From:	Calpurnia <darta_arelia@-------->
Date:	Wed, 9 May 2001 13:21:49 -0700 (PDT)

Salve,

this is just my two cents on the issue of "dead
citizens." if this discussion had taken place four or
five months ago, i would have been one such citizen.
This is because until that point, i did not have
access to the internet. Yes i know, one can go to the
public library for access as i am now, but until the
semester started i did not have the time during
daylight hours. Now the semester is over and i may not
be as able to check my e-mail and be involved as i
would like to be. This does not mean that I am gone
for good, more like on hiatus. In attempting to take a
valid census, is there a way to write citizens by
snail mail? It has been quite some time since i filled
out my application and i do not recall if there was a
place for a physical address so i may be totally wrong
in this suggestion.

while i'm thinking bout it, if there is a place for
the physical address, i must change mine. who would i
need to talk to about that?

Vale,
Claudia Aucelia Calpurnia
--- Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
<alexious@--------> wrote:
>
> <SNIP>
> >
> > Ave Luci Corneli,
> >
> > I think that these Paters/Maters who are failing
> to respond are a
> > symptom of a larger problem. An inflated Census.
> We don't really have
> > the 849 citizens that our home page mentions. What
> we have is a list
> > that is inflated with the names of citizens who
> left without bothering
> > to resign. Perhaps they joined on a whim, and
> didn't find what they
> > were looking for. Perhaps they left in anger over
> one of the disputes
> > that came up in the past. Perhaps they found
> another persuit that they
> > found more fullfilling to thier needs than Nova
> Roma. The reason
> > doesn't matter, They have left us and only exist
> as names on a list now.
>
> Sulla: Oh I agree....it is a symptom of a larger
> issue. As I stated in
> another email a while ago, I would say about 80-90%
> of the people on our
> main list are citizens. This means about 50% of our
> citizens are not on
> the NR main list. I know that as Proconsul I tried
> unsuccessfully to
> promulgate a mandatory subscription to a Provincia
> email list. That
> failed because many citizens did not want to be
> forcibly put on a
> list....and I understand that completely. However,
> the result of not
> "compelling" people to join a list is the fact that
> there will be people
> who do not want to be on any lists..and hence will
> become inactive.
> Part of the nature of the internet is anonymity
> (sp.) Many people have
> no desire to be on lists...or even really to be
> involved.
>
> > I think it's time for Nova Roma to hold a Census.
> We need to know just
> > how many citizens we really have. In Antiquita the
> Census was closely
> > tied to taxiation, and since we are about to apply
> taxes, now seems to
> > be an excellent time to hold a Census.
>
> Sulla: Well this is something I wanted for a LONG
> time. However, I
> have not the time to call everyone who fails to
> respond to emails. My
> few scribes are either limited in their time as well
> or busy doing other
> projects for me.
>
> > We could start by looking at the records from the
> December elections.
> > Citizens who voted then would be considered to
> active. Next would be
> > the Citizens who have joined since then, who would
> also be considered
> > active. If my memory is correct about 200 citizens
> voted last December
> > and about 200 new citizens have enrolled since
> then. This leaves us
> > with roughly 450 citizens to account for.
>
> Sulla: True. But we must also keep in mind that
> there might be many in
> Nova Roma who do not care so much for the political
> climate. Just
> because we have 200 voters we probably have another
> 200 on various email
> lists. So we should always keep in mind that just
> because some one
> doesn't vote doesn't mean they are not interested in
> NR.
>
> > I would suggest that each of these 450 citizens be
> sent an e-mail 3
> > times at one week intervals. One week after the
> last attempt to
> > contact these citizens, we should publish a list
> of those citizens who
> > failed to respond. If any Citizen knows the reason
> why we were unable
> > to contact the inactive citizens they could
> contact the Censors
> > regarding this. The remainder would be declared
> legally dead, and
> > thier names removed from the Album Civium. For
> those who were the
> > Pater/Mater of a Gens, The active citizen who had
> held membership the
> > longest would be declared the new Pater/Mater of
> that Gens. Gens with
> > no "living" Citizens would be striken from the
> Album Gentium.
> >
> > I think that this would solve most of the problems
> that we are having
> > with Paters/Maters that fail to respond. Since
> some of these inactive
> > citizens are the Pater/Mater of Gens with
> illustrous names it will
> > allow us to have new Citizens adpot these names so
> they will play a
> > role in our new republic as they did in the
> ancient republic. It would
> > also be of some help to the Senate when they
> debate on what the tax
> > rate is going to be. Knowing how many citizens we
> really have will
> > allow the Senate to make a closer estimate of how
> much revenue a given
> > tax rate will generate.
> >
> > It may be a blow to our pride to see the number of
> Citizens fall by
> > several hundred, but at least we will know how
> many real citizens we
> > have instead of wondering how many of that 849 are
> "ghosts"
>
> Sulla: Well I believe first we need to define what
> is legally dead. I
> know that I spoke with Consul Flavius Vedius about
> this a while ago, and
> I gave my thought that if someone does not vote in 3
> yearly elections we
> should consider that person legally dead. The
> reason I hold that
> thought would be its not a quick fix. It give
> someone, even if they are
> not politically motivated ample opportunity to
> contact the Censors
> regarding their non desire to vote or vote in at
> least one major
> election within 3 years.
>
> Sulla: While in the past I used to be very eager to
> remove citizens
> from the roles for inactivity, and I was criticized
> for having that
> opinion. I still have the opinion that inactive
> citizens should be
> removed to have a more proper reflection of the true
> membership of Nova
> Roma, this part of my view has changed. I think we
> should take this
> slow, we should not move in haste to clean the roles
> of inactive
> citizens. So, if we decide to legislate this, let
> the law be lenient in
> recognition that many Nova Romans might be here for
> various reasons, and
> politics might not be one of them.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> Censor
>
>
> > Vale
> > Lucius Sicinius Drusus
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>


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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Census: was Tidying up the Constitution
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@-------->
Date:	Wed, 09 May 2001 14:26:23 -0700

Ave,

Any citizen can contact me at my home address, and I will publish that
here for anyone who needs it as it will be in the archives.

Robert Woolwine
6644 N. Rosemead Blvd, Apt. 8
San Gabriel, CA 91775

If anyone needs my home phone number, please ask me off list and I would
provide that to anyone.

Or one can send information to the Nova Roma PO box which is on the NR
main website.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix


Calpurnia wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> this is just my two cents on the issue of "dead
> citizens." if this discussion had taken place four or
> five months ago, i would have been one such citizen.
> This is because until that point, i did not have
> access to the internet. Yes i know, one can go to the
> public library for access as i am now, but until the
> semester started i did not have the time during
> daylight hours. Now the semester is over and i may not
> be as able to check my e-mail and be involved as i
> would like to be. This does not mean that I am gone
> for good, more like on hiatus. In attempting to take a
> valid census, is there a way to write citizens by
> snail mail? It has been quite some time since i filled
> out my application and i do not recall if there was a
> place for a physical address so i may be totally wrong
> in this suggestion.
>
> while i'm thinking bout it, if there is a place for
> the physical address, i must change mine. who would i
> need to talk to about that?
>
> Vale,
> Claudia Aucelia Calpurnia
> --- Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> <alexious@--------> wrote:
> >
> > <SNIP>
> > >
> > > Ave Luci Corneli,
> > >
> > > I think that these Paters/Maters who are failing
> > to respond are a
> > > symptom of a larger problem. An inflated Census.
> > We don't really have
> > > the 849 citizens that our home page mentions. What
> > we have is a list
> > > that is inflated with the names of citizens who
> > left without bothering
> > > to resign. Perhaps they joined on a whim, and
> > didn't find what they
> > > were looking for. Perhaps they left in anger over
> > one of the disputes
> > > that came up in the past. Perhaps they found
> > another persuit that they
> > > found more fullfilling to thier needs than Nova
> > Roma. The reason
> > > doesn't matter, They have left us and only exist
> > as names on a list now.
> >
> > Sulla: Oh I agree....it is a symptom of a larger
> > issue. As I stated in
> > another email a while ago, I would say about 80-90%
> > of the people on our
> > main list are citizens. This means about 50% of our
> > citizens are not on
> > the NR main list. I know that as Proconsul I tried
> > unsuccessfully to
> > promulgate a mandatory subscription to a Provincia
> > email list. That
> > failed because many citizens did not want to be
> > forcibly put on a
> > list....and I understand that completely. However,
> > the result of not
> > "compelling" people to join a list is the fact that
> > there will be people
> > who do not want to be on any lists..and hence will
> > become inactive.
> > Part of the nature of the internet is anonymity
> > (sp.) Many people have
> > no desire to be on lists...or even really to be
> > involved.
> >
> > > I think it's time for Nova Roma to hold a Census.
> > We need to know just
> > > how many citizens we really have. In Antiquita the
> > Census was closely
> > > tied to taxiation, and since we are about to apply
> > taxes, now seems to
> > > be an excellent time to hold a Census.
> >
> > Sulla: Well this is something I wanted for a LONG
> > time. However, I
> > have not the time to call everyone who fails to
> > respond to emails. My
> > few scribes are either limited in their time as well
> > or busy doing other
> > projects for me.
> >
> > > We could start by looking at the records from the
> > December elections.
> > > Citizens who voted then would be considered to
> > active. Next would be
> > > the Citizens who have joined since then, who would
> > also be considered
> > > active. If my memory is correct about 200 citizens
> > voted last December
> > > and about 200 new citizens have enrolled since
> > then. This leaves us
> > > with roughly 450 citizens to account for.
> >
> > Sulla: True. But we must also keep in mind that
> > there might be many in
> > Nova Roma who do not care so much for the political
> > climate. Just
> > because we have 200 voters we probably have another
> > 200 on various email
> > lists. So we should always keep in mind that just
> > because some one
> > doesn't vote doesn't mean they are not interested in
> > NR.
> >
> > > I would suggest that each of these 450 citizens be
> > sent an e-mail 3
> > > times at one week intervals. One week after the
> > last attempt to
> > > contact these citizens, we should publish a list
> > of those citizens who
> > > failed to respond. If any Citizen knows the reason
> > why we were unable
> > > to contact the inactive citizens they could
> > contact the Censors
> > > regarding this. The remainder would be declared
> > legally dead, and
> > > thier names removed from the Album Civium. For
> > those who were the
> > > Pater/Mater of a Gens, The active citizen who had
> > held membership the
> > > longest would be declared the new Pater/Mater of
> > that Gens. Gens with
> > > no "living" Citizens would be striken from the
> > Album Gentium.
> > >
> > > I think that this would solve most of the problems
> > that we are having
> > > with Paters/Maters that fail to respond. Since
> > some of these inactive
> > > citizens are the Pater/Mater of Gens with
> > illustrous names it will
> > > allow us to have new Citizens adpot these names so
> > they will play a
> > > role in our new republic as they did in the
> > ancient republic. It would
> > > also be of some help to the Senate when they
> > debate on what the tax
> > > rate is going to be. Knowing how many citizens we
> > really have will
> > > allow the Senate to make a closer estimate of how
> > much revenue a given
> > > tax rate will generate.
> > >
> > > It may be a blow to our pride to see the number of
> > Citizens fall by
> > > several hundred, but at least we will know how
> > many real citizens we
> > > have instead of wondering how many of that 849 are
> > "ghosts"
> >
> > Sulla: Well I believe first we need to define what
> > is legally dead. I
> > know that I spoke with Consul Flavius Vedius about
> > this a while ago, and
> > I gave my thought that if someone does not vote in 3
> > yearly elections we
> > should consider that person legally dead. The
> > reason I hold that
> > thought would be its not a quick fix. It give
> > someone, even if they are
> > not politically motivated ample opportunity to
> > contact the Censors
> > regarding their non desire to vote or vote in at
> > least one major
> > election within 3 years.
> >
> > Sulla: While in the past I used to be very eager to
> > remove citizens
> > from the roles for inactivity, and I was criticized
> > for having that
> > opinion. I still have the opinion that inactive
> > citizens should be
> > removed to have a more proper reflection of the true
> > membership of Nova
> > Roma, this part of my view has changed. I think we
> > should take this
> > slow, we should not move in haste to clean the roles
> > of inactive
> > citizens. So, if we decide to legislate this, let
> > the law be lenient in
> > recognition that many Nova Romans might be here for
> > various reasons, and
> > politics might not be one of them.
> >
> > Respectfully,
> >
> > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> > Censor
> >
> >
> > > Vale
> > > Lucius Sicinius Drusus
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
>
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] GLADIATOR--The Nova Roma Version, chap.2
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Wed, 9 May 2001 15:11:39 -0700 (PDT)

Salve, Cassie Nerva.

I liked the first chapter. But this second chapter is even better!
Cervantes said: "Never second parts were good", but you have just
denied his wisdom.

Congratulations.

Gnaeus Salix Astur.



=====
Bene Valete!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Civis romanus.

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Statement on Unofficial Lists
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Wed, 9 May 2001 14:46:58 -0700 (PDT)

Salve, Priscilla Vedia Serena.

I publicly ask for your forgiveness for not having required your
permission to join the "backup list". I was not aware that I had an
obbligation to do so.

So please, do forgive me. No offence was meant at all.

And as for the prematurity of my actions, I guess that safety is never
too premature.

Bene Vale!

Gnaeus Salix Astur.

--- JusticeCMO <justicecmo@--------> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> Having seen the posts today of Gnaeus Salix Astur and Oppius Flacus,
> I feel
> I need to make an official statement about their current creation of
> "backup" Nova Roma mailing lists. Their actions are, in a word,
> premature.
>
> Granted, their list(s) are completely unofficial, therefore there is
> no
> "harm" done, but it also bears noting that they have taken this
> action
> without so much as the courtesy of an e-mail. ....public or
> private.....to
> me as Curatrix Sermonis. As the duly elected magistrate in charge of
> *all*
> official Nova Roman mailing lists, any change that would ever come
> about
> would need to come through me at any rate. Therefore, while they are
> free
> to create as many unofficial "backup" lists as they see fit, when and
> if the
> day come for Nova Roma to alter its mailing programs, that will be
> done
> through my office, not through any such unofficial lists.
>
> I have stated in past days, and will do so again, that if problems
> persist
> with yahoo I am quite certain to pursue other avenues. In the
> meantime,
> however, random citizens creating multiple new lists without so much
> as a
> nod to the propriety of their actions is not helping the situation.
> I
> appreciate your attention, and wanted to be quite clear for those of
> you who
> may be considering joining the "backup" lists that they are not now,
> nor
> will they ever likely be, made official. if and when a change in
> mailing
> program is made I will open the floor for suggestions, assistance and
> opinions. For now, however well intended they may be, multiple lists
> are
> unnecessary and, as I said, quite premature.
>
> Vale,
> Priscilla Vedia Serena
> Curatrix Sermonis
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
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>
>


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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Comitia Vote
From:	Kristoffer From <kristoffer.from@-------->
Date:	Wed, 09 May 2001 23:31:48 +0200

Salvete, cives Romani.

There is a matter I wish to bring under public scrutiny regarding the
upcoming vote. Before you lay down your vote, be sure you have
contemplated all the ramifications of the lex in question. Do not vote
for or against a lex just because you get a feeling from the discussion
on the main list that it is close to/far from your own opinions in the
matter. Read it through carefully, and consider if it would be
acceptable to you, not for it's effect on you personally, but the basic
thoughts and values expressed therein.

For example, you might feel I or someone else have made some good points
in the taxation debate, and be ready to vote against the taxation lex in
it's current form. However, as it's formulated currently, it's quite a
nice form of legislation. I've only debated a minor part of it, and that
part might not be something that you feel to be inhibiting the freedom
of the individual.

In short, be sure you know your own feelings on a given matter, and
don't give in to "public opinion", but rather to your own conscience.

Valete,

Titus Octavius Pius,
Consiliarius Thules,
Praeco Anarei Thules,
Scriba to the Curator Araneum

AKA Kristoffer From

---

Si hoc signum legere potes,
operis boni in rebus latinis alacribus
et fructuosis potiri potes.

- Not-so-famous quotation

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
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o-- K- w--- !O M-- V-- PS->$ PE- Y+ PGP- t+@ 5- X-
R+++>$ !tv- b+++>$ DI++++ D+ G e h! !r-->r+++ !x-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------



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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Statement on Unofficial Lists
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Wed, 9 May 2001 15:43:03 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete omnes.

I think that a big misunderstanding has ocurred here. As my posts may
have been part of the causes of this misunderstanding, I want to make
things clear once and for all.

The NRmail list at Topica is NOT (I repeat; it is NOT) a backup list,
or a duplication of the main Nova Roma list. It is an UNOFFICIAL list
for those citizens who think that Nova Roma should handle its
infrastructures by herself. Technical issues are commented and
confronted, and different possibilities (including the creation of
backup lists) are discussed.

This list is just a discussion group of private citizens, to which all
interested parties and individuals are invited to join. As technical
language (not related with Rome or Roman culture) will be widely used,
those citizens have considered the convinience to discuss these issues
outside of the main list. That does not mean a will to secede or make
things by themselves. The main mistake was not having informed the
Curatrix Sermonis and the magistrates of Nova Roma specifically
(although, as everything was posted on the main list, there was no
intent of secrecy).

The final objective is to reach a reasonable proposal for the
infrastructural independence of Nova Roma, in order to present it to
the Senate for consideration.

I beg your pardon if my posts have confused or misdirected you.
Probably, it was my own mistake, coupled with a lack of knowledge of
the English language. Please forgive me.





=====
Bene Valete!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Civis romanus.

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] GLADIATOR--The Nova Roma Version, chap.1
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Wed, 9 May 2001 14:58:53 -0700 (PDT)

Salve, Cassie Nerva.

--- gcassiusnerva@-------- wrote:

<snipped>

> Thanks! But chapter 2 is pretty much done. I think I can get you in
> in a
> later chapter, though.
>
> Nerva

How kind of you! I think NOW you are leading the good way to
perfection!
:-)

Speaking seriously, my post was just some kind of joke. Please do not
feel compelled to include me in your story. After all, it is YOUR
story, and it's yours to tell.

However, if you do want to include me in your brilliant satyre, I would
be extremely pleased ;-).



=====
Bene Valete!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Civis romanus.

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Comitia Vote
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Fri, 01 Jan 1904 17:42:34 -0800

Ave,

I rarely add, me too's to posts...but let me do that now. This is excellent
advice. Now, let me go one bit further. Upon reading any of the proposed
Laws, and if you have any questions, please contact the Author of the Law.
The only way to cast a vote should be to cast a responsible vote.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix


on 5/9/01 1:31 PM, Kristoffer From at kristoffer.from@-------- wrote:

> Salvete, cives Romani.
>
> There is a matter I wish to bring under public scrutiny regarding the
> upcoming vote. Before you lay down your vote, be sure you have
> contemplated all the ramifications of the lex in question. Do not vote
> for or against a lex just because you get a feeling from the discussion
> on the main list that it is close to/far from your own opinions in the
> matter. Read it through carefully, and consider if it would be
> acceptable to you, not for it's effect on you personally, but the basic
> thoughts and values expressed therein.
>
> For example, you might feel I or someone else have made some good points
> in the taxation debate, and be ready to vote against the taxation lex in
> it's current form. However, as it's formulated currently, it's quite a
> nice form of legislation. I've only debated a minor part of it, and that
> part might not be something that you feel to be inhibiting the freedom
> of the individual.
>
> In short, be sure you know your own feelings on a given matter, and
> don't give in to "public opinion", but rather to your own conscience.
>
> Valete,
>
> Titus Octavius Pius,
> Consiliarius Thules,
> Praeco Anarei Thules,
> Scriba to the Curator Araneum
>
> AKA Kristoffer From
>
> ---
>
> Si hoc signum legere potes,
> operis boni in rebus latinis alacribus
> et fructuosis potiri potes.
>
> - Not-so-famous quotation
>
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> Version: 3.1
> GCS d- s:++> a-- C++>$ ULS++ P+ L++ E- W++(--) N
> o-- K- w--- !O M-- V-- PS->$ PE- Y+ PGP- t+@ 5- X-
> R+++>$ !tv- b+++>$ DI++++ D+ G e h! !r-->r+++ !x-
> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>




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Subject:	[novaroma] Nova Britannia Chat Tonight
From:	"C. Minucius Hadrianus" <shinjikun@-------->
Date:	Wed, 9 May 2001 19:53:59 -0400

Salvete omnes,

Just a reminder that the weekly Nova Britannia chat will be held tonight
from 21:00 - 22:00 (EST or GMT -5:00) in the Nova Britannia mailing list
chat room at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NovaBritannia/chat. I encourage
all Nova Britanniae to stop in and say hello (any other interested cives are
welcome, of course!).

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Legatus of Massachusetts

ICQ# 28924742

"Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum." - Vegetius





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Slavery (was RE: Two issues)
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Wed, 9 May 2001 16:46:18 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete omnes; and salve, Calpurnia.

> Salve,
>
> I would also like to see a statement against their
> treatment of women. Women over there are not allowed
> to practice medicine, and are not allowed to see male
> doctors. by this there is no medical treatment for the
> women of that country. the taliban's laws against
> religious freedom are well within their rights, it's
> their laws that interfere with human _life_ that i
> find the most offensive.
>
> Vale,
> Claudia Aucelia Calpurnia

The Talibans have spelt new letters for "barbarian". Such a behaviour
would have been despised even in the days of Roma Antiqua. The Talibans
insult true Muslims everywhere by the way the read the Islam. If anyone
is looking for the real "Evil Empire" since the Nazis fell, here you
have it.



=====
Bene Valete!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Civis romanus.

__________________________________________________
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