Forum Romanum


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] NO taxis
From:	gcassiusnerva@--------
Date:	Sun, 13 May 2001 20:09:07 EDT

Wouldn't the taxi drivers complain if we refused to pay taxis?

Nerva

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[novaroma] Four Invalid Voter Codes
From:	"A. Cato" <a.cato@-------->
Date:	Sun, 13 May 2001 20:35:10 -0400

Salvete Omnes: Would the citizens who have the following Tracking Numbers please double check their Voting Codes and try to vote again. If you have these Tracking Numbers, your Voter Code that you used was invalid. If you continue to have trouble with your Voting Code, please contact the Censors or Rogators. Valete, ... A. Cato, ... Rogator

Tracking Numbers: # 6034, # 6035, # 6043, # 6060

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Getting citizenship!
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@-------->
Date:	Sun, 13 May 2001 17:34:05 -0700

Ave,

Contact me off list. My email addy is alexious@-------- and I will
assist you in this process.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor of Nova Roma

Linus Råde wrote:
>
> Salve
>
> I ahve been trying to become a citizen for about 2 month but havent been
> able since my name was already taken. I didnt want to send in a new
> application (because I think it might cause too much stress on the already
> hard working censors) but when I tried to send a letter to the censors on
> this issue it just came back because of an invalid e-mail.
>
> I would be very greatful if someone could help me with this.
>
> Linus Råde
>
>
>
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Getting citizenship!
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Sun, 13 May 2001 17:44:44 -0700 (PDT)

--- Linus_Råde <mournblade@--------> wrote:
> Salve
>
> I ahve been trying to become a citizen for about 2
> month but havent been
> able since my name was already taken. I didnt want
> to send in a new
> application (because I think it might cause too much
> stress on the already
> hard working censors) but when I tried to send a
> letter to the censors on
> this issue it just came back because of an invalid
> e-mail.
>
> I would be very greatful if someone could help me
> with this.
>
>
>
>
> Linus Råde

Ave Linus,
Both of Our Censors follow this list, so I think
there's a good chance that one of them will contact
you soon. We are having an election right now, and our
laws forbid adding new citizens while voting is
underway, so you will have to wait until 20 May before
your application can be approved.

If you don't hear from them soon, contact me at
lsicinius@--------, and I'll contact one of them on
your behalf.

Welcome (Allmost) Citizen!

Vale,
L. Sicinius Drusus

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] NO taxis
From:	TClaudiusNero@--------
Date:	Sun, 13 May 2001 20:18:18 EDT

Yes, but with the out break of people buying poverity apon themselves, no one can really afford to pay the taxis.

<<Wouldn't the taxi drivers complain if we refused to pay taxis?

Nerva>>

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Subject:	[novaroma] Invalid Voter Code
From:	"A. Cato" <a.cato@-------->
Date:	Sun, 13 May 2001 22:06:02 -0400

Salvete Omnes: The citizen with Tracking Number # 6068 has entered an Invalid Voter Code. I would like to ask the people with Invalid Voter Codes to make sure that they are not confusing 1 (the number) with I (capital "eye"), or confusing 0 (the number) with O (capital "oh") Those citizens with Tracking Numbers in this post or my last post are asked to double check their Voting Codes for this possible mistake and asked to vote again. If there is any further problem please contact the Censors or Rogators.
Valete: Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato, ... Rogator

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[novaroma] Current Vote on Taxes
From:	cassius622@--------
Date:	Sun, 13 May 2001 22:27:23 EDT

Salvete,

I just wanted to announce that I have just voted in favor of the tax proposal
currently up for vote.

To me, Nova Roma is worth my financial support.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[novaroma] New Sacerdos Mars Invictus!
From:	cassius622@--------
Date:	Sun, 13 May 2001 22:40:26 EDT

Salvete,

I am sending this post late with full apologies... I have been having
Internet connection problems for some time and thought this had gone out
after the last Pontificial College vote! :(

It is my pleasure to announce that Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura has been
appointed as a Sacerdos of Mars Invictus by the Collegium Pontificum of Nova
Roma. Bruttius Sura has shown a true devotion to Mars Invictus as well as
valuable knowledge of the Religio Romana. His holding this post will surely
be a great benefit to the Religio Romana in Nova Roma!

I hope everyone will join me in sending Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura
congratulations in regard to his new Priesthood. AVE!

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Pontifex Maximus

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] NO taxis
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Mon, 14 May 2001 01:37:57 EDT

I think it would be good to have taxis if they were using chariots. I
agree that there is something distasteful about the thought of a yellow
cab running around with "SPQR" blazoned on it.

Sorry, Longinus, I just couldn't resist. Politics in a foreign language
can be tricky. I think you meant to object to *taxes*. You fail to say
how we can ever have a thriving Republic with no more support than people
chattering on Internet mailing lists. Taxes are a necessity for any
nation.

An even more odd fact about your objections is that the law to which you
are objecting would not establish any taxes. It merely would provide for
differentiating between citizens who pay taxes and those who, as you
urge, decline to pay any. So even your protest is provided for in the
very law you are protesting. How neat!

Vale,

L. Sergius Australicus Obstinatus

On 5/13/01 12:38 PM rabotnik@-------- (rabotnik@--------) wrote:

>Petrus Artorius Longinus to all Nova Roma Cives S.P.D.
>I urge you to help Nova Roma to stay free from taxis.
>Refuse to pay taxis!
>Dont let anybody punish us and trapped us in to the tax trap
>We all help our Republic with voluntary work and will not anybody try
>to change it
>Be free! Go vote and say NO!!! to Lex Vedia de assidui et capiti censi
>Vale bene!
> Lex Vedia de assidui et capiti censi
>I. This Lex Vedia de assidui et capiti censi is hereby enacted to
>define the classifications of taxpayers and non-taxpayers, and put in
>place special conditions on those who are unable or unwilling to
>support the financial welfare of the Republic through payment of
>those taxes which may be enacted by the Senate.
>II. Citizens who pay taxes in such amount and in such manner as may
>be defined by the Senate shall be considered assidui. No special
>conditions shall be placed on assidui in regards to their placement
>in centuries and tribes or their ability to run for or hold office.
>III. Citizens who do not pay taxes in such amount and in such manner
>as may be defined by the Senate shall be considered capiti censi. The
>following special conditions shall apply to capiti censi:
>A. The Censors shall place all capiti censi in the last century in
>Class V as defined in the Lex Vedia Centuriata and those leges which
>may amend it, and no other Citizens shall be enrolled therein.
>B. The Censors shall place all capiti censi in the urban tribes as
>defined in the Lex Vedia Tributorum and those leges which may amend
>it.
>C. No member of the capiti censi may run for or hold office as one of
>the ordinarii (including the apparitores), nor be appointed to or
>hold office as provincial governor. Members of the capiti censi may
>hold provincial or local offices at the discretion of the governor of
>the province in question.
>

certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.

(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] NO taxis
From:	TSardonicus@--------
Date:	Mon, 14 May 2001 02:28:13 EDT

In a message dated 5/13/01 10:38:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
LSergAust@-------- writes:

> You fail to say
> how we can ever have a thriving Republic with no more support than people
> chattering on Internet mailing lists. Taxes are a necessity for any
> nation.

No, not really. Graft, bribery and extortion work just as well as other
means of securing sufficient funds for running small countries...this has
been proven.

Taxes are the fiscal responsibility of the people to support the collective
goals of that very same people. The ability to choose the goals, or voice an
opinion regarding the goals, is a priviledge. I tend to forget that, at
times. I thank the gods that my voice is heard in my own local community, in
my nation's government, and that of Nova Roma.

It's late...and I tend to put my foot in my mouth when I'm tired. Size
9....insert foot...chew slowly....

Valete,
LTS

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Subject:	[novaroma] Overloaded Mail Box
From:	jmath669642reng@--------
Date:	Mon, 14 May 2001 03:18:09 -0400 (EDT)

Ladies and Gentlemen;

I am come before you to explain to those who have tried to contact me
via the internet, that during my reenactment I was visited with an
unasked for, unwarned large amount of data which choked my mail box and
cut off all communications with the above E-Mail Address.

I apologize for any inconvienience that this has caused, and I ask that
if your mail was returned, to please re-send it as your communication is
valuable to me.

I hope that the problem has been dealt with in one way or another, and
although extremely irritating, the action was neither delibrate, nor
hateful.

Those of you who have links to other groups with whom I have frequent
correspondence, may I ask that you will pass this message on (Union
Reenactors, NMLHA, Nat. Regt., etc.) as I will have my hands full with
other foriegn friends and frequent corresponders not on an established
list.

I thank you in advance for your patience in this, and your very kind
consideration of this post.

Respectfully;

Jim Mathews

(aka: Marcus Audens, Ian McKay, and others ---Grin!!!!!!!!!)

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

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Subject:	[novaroma] Overloaded Mail Box
From:	jmath669642reng@--------
Date:	Mon, 14 May 2001 03:21:34 -0400 (EDT)


Subject:	[novaroma] Yahoo still dissapoints
From:	gcassiusnerva@--------
Date:	Mon, 14 May 2001 06:57:58 EDT

Salvete,

Despite the recent shutdowns for maintainence, I am finding I still am
not getting all my Yahoo List mail. Instead, I am checking the archives for
all my lists to see posts which I would not have other wise seen.

You all may wish to do the same. For those not familiar with the list
archives, it is very simple. Go to www.yahoogroups.com and sign in with your
yahoo name and password. You will then see a list of all the mailing lists
you joined. Click on a list and you will be taken to that list's homepage,
and then click on MESSAGES.

If you want to check another list, go to the top of the screen and click on
MY GROUPS.

Here's to hoping that these problems will eventually be solved!

Gaius Cassius Nerva

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Subject:	[novaroma] FW: ARCHPORT: Ancient farmers were goat-herders
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <amg@-------->
Date:	Mon, 14 May 2001 12:57:42 +0100

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-archport@-------- [mailto:owner-archport@--------]On Behalf
Of Paulo Monteiro
Sent: segunda-feira, 14 de Maio de 2001 11:40
To: archport@--------
Subject: ARCHPORT: Ancient farmers were goat-herders

BBC News Online's, Tuesday, 8 May, 2001, 09:19 GMT 10:19 UK

By Helen Briggs
They say that the dog is man's best friend but it seems that in ancient
times it was the goat that played this role.

New genetic evidence suggests that goats travelled around the world with
early farmers, serving as a walking milk supply and a tool for bartering.

The animals probably helped our ancestors conquer new territory and develop
early trade.

Modern-day goats still bear the genetic signature of the movement and mixing
of animals 10,000 years ago.

'Poor cow'

Goats have often been dubbed the "poor man's cow" because they can survive
in harsh conditions on meagre food.

In many countries, the world's 700 million goats now play second fiddle to
the four major livestock species: cattle, buffalo, pigs, and sheep.

But a genetic analysis of more than 400 goats from 44 countries throughout
Europe, Asia, Africa and the Middle East suggests that goats were once the
favoured domestic animal.

Researchers have found that the goat's genetic history is different from
other farm animals, such as cows and sheep.

Potable supply

This history shows more mixing between continents, suggesting that goats
travelled with early farmers as they journeyed and colonised new land.

"We think humans were moving about with goats, and much more with goats than
with sheep or cows," Pierre Taberlet, one of the co-researchers of the
study, told BBC News Online.

They probably provided milk, said Dr Taberlet, of the Centre National de la
Recherche Scientifique, Grenoble, France.

It seems that goats were "walking fridges", acting as a handy portable food
supply as well as a trading tool.

Three lines

The study reveals that all goats alive today are descended from three
distinct lineages.

The first population arose about 10,000 years ago in the Fertile Crescent
region of the Middle East, also where cattle came from. The other two arose
more recently, probably in South eastern Asia and the Middle/Near East.

The work, which was carried out by a Swiss-French team, is published in the
US journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

It is based on studies of mitochondrial DNA, the scrap of genetic material
that is passed from mother to child.

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Subject:	[novaroma] FW: ARCHPORT: Nero's folly crumbles after heavy rain in Rome
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <amg@-------->
Date:	Mon, 14 May 2001 12:57:51 +0100

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-archport@-------- [mailto:owner-archport@--------]On Behalf
Of Paulo Monteiro
Sent: segunda-feira, 14 de Maio de 2001 11:44
To: archport@--------
Subject: ARCHPORT: Nero's folly crumbles after heavy rain in Rome

Nero's folly crumbles after heavy rain in Rome

Rory Carroll in Rome
Tuesday May 8, 2001
The Guardian

Part of the ceiling of Nero's Golden House, a palace so sumptuous it
scandalised even the ancient Romans, has collapsed after torrential rain.
Bricks and plaster crashed into a gallery next to the octagonal chamber
early on Sunday morning, hours before tourists were due to visit the site,
also known as the Domus Aurea.
Yesterday a gap 80cm square yawned beside the oculus, a hole at the top of
the ceiling, which sheltered frescoes on the walls below. Archaeologists and
restorers, wearing hard hats, emerged from an inspection to say that the
palace would be partially reopened tomorrow.

Further collapses were not ruled out, however, as rainwater had infiltrated
cavities despite an 18-year restoration, which culminated in a triumphant
re-opening in 1999.

The collapse is certain to fuel fears about the safety of other imperial
remnants in Rome. Potentially destructive water infiltration has been
detected in the sprawling complex of ruins known as the Forum, which
symbolised Roman power since the eighth century BC with temples, basilicas
and arches.

Maintenance has been held up for decades by lack of funds. A spurt of money
for last year's jubilee, or holy year, has now evaporated.

Conservationists are also concerned about threats to the Colosseum from
underground water and vegetation. Some corridors where gladiators once
waited to fight are overgrown with plants. Exotic species from Africa date
back to seeds dropped from the hooves and paws of imported animals.

In January, the Vatican closed the tomb of St Peter to tourists and scholars
because of humidity damage, which had allowed the growth of saline
encrustations and microbiological phenomena.

Emperor Nero took advantage of the great fire of AD 64, which historians say
he did not start, to clear swaths of central Rome for a new palace.

Built on the Oppian Hill, a ridge on Monte Esquilino, the architects Severo
and Celere created a pastoral idyll by ringing the structure with gardens
and an artificial lake. Gold, silver, pearl, ivory, marble and frescoes from
the peak period in Roman art adorned more than 1,000 rooms, taking up more
than 30,000 sq metres in an attempt to surpass oriental and Egyptian
monarchs.

Romans denounced such megalomania - "All Rome has become a villa" - and
Nero's successors were quick to demolish it. The lake was drained to become
the site of the Colosseum and the palace was turned into public baths.

During the Renaissance, Raphael and other artists clambered among its ruins
to study the frescoes. The octagonal chamber was one of 32 rooms which
survived to be excavated and restored. Hundreds of people visit daily.

Silvana Rizzo, director of the Imperial Forum, said that recent deluges,
after one of the wettest Aprils on record, combined with humidity, put
stress on ancient structures: "In the last few days I have examined the
situation in the Forum and even there there are serious problems with
disposal of water."

It was thought likely that Nero's palace had been further weakened by roots
from trees at a nearby park.

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Subject:	[novaroma] NO TAXES !!!!
From:	rabotnik@--------
Date:	Mon, 14 May 2001 08:17:29 -0000

Petrus Artorius Longinus to all Nova Roma Cives S.P.D.
I urge you to help Nova Roma to stay free from taxes.
Refuse to pay taxes!
Dont let anybody punish us and trap us in to the tax trap
We all help our Republic with VOLUNTERY work and will not anybody try
to change it
Be free! Go vote and say NO!!! to Lex Vedia de assidui et capiti censi

Freedom of will, freedom of speech, freedom of tax.

Vale bene!

Lex Vedia de assidui et capiti censi
I. This Lex Vedia de assidui et capiti censi is hereby enacted to
define the classifications of taxpayers and non-taxpayers, and put in
place special conditions on those who are unable or unwilling to
support the financial welfare of the Republic through payment of
those taxes which may be enacted by the Senate.
II. Citizens who pay taxes in such amount and in such manner as may
be defined by the Senate shall be considered assidui. No special
conditions shall be placed on assidui in regards to their placement
in centuries and tribes or their ability to run for or hold office.
III. Citizens who do not pay taxes in such amount and in such manner
as may be defined by the Senate shall be considered capiti censi. The
following special conditions shall apply to capiti censi:
A. The Censors shall place all capiti censi in the last century in
Class V as defined in the Lex Vedia Centuriata and those leges which
may amend it, and no other Citizens shall be enrolled therein.
B. The Censors shall place all capiti censi in the urban tribes as
defined in the Lex Vedia Tributorum and those leges which may amend
it.
C. No member of the capiti censi may run for or hold office as one of
the ordinarii (including the apparitores), nor be appointed to or
hold office as provincial governor. Members of the capiti censi may
hold provincial or local offices at the discretion of the governor of
the province in question.

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Voter Codes
From:	JSmithCSA@--------
Date:	Mon, 14 May 2001 12:45:35 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@c...> wrote:

> If you don't remember what your voter code is, or if you were not a
> citizen at the time of the previous election, you may request your
voter
> code in this manner:
>
> Go to the main Album Civium page:
> http://www.novaroma.org/bin/view/cives

This is a great service...but damned the luck, I remembered mine from
last time!

Lucius Cornelius Dalmaticus

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Voter Codes
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Mon, 14 May 2001 08:57:39 -0500 (CDT)

Salve Luci Corneli Dalmatice,

> This is a great service...but damned the luck, I remembered mine from
> last time!

Well, you can still use the voter code mailing request feature - it
doesn't cost anything to run, I don't mind if you try it out just to
see what it looks like! :)

Vale, O.

--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator

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Subject:	[novaroma] SUPPORT OUR REPUBLIC - "YES" TO TAXES! (was Re: NO TAXES !!!!)
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Mon, 14 May 2001 09:23:01 -0500 (CDT)

> Petrus Artorius Longinus to all Nova Roma Cives S.P.D.
> I urge you to help Nova Roma to stay free from taxes.
> Refuse to pay taxes!

Why do you seek to cripple all of our efforts? Why do you seek to
make us nothing more than a collection of natterrers on a mailing
list?

I am shocked and dismayed to see such strong opposition to a moderate
and just law that is absolutely essential for the future of
Nova Roma.

Those who vote against the tax proposal are throwing away our
future for the price of a meal or two. They seek to keep Nova Roma
a debtor nation, powerless to even pay back the substantial loan made
by Marcus Cassius or to compensate its own magistrates for legitimate
business expenses. They seek to prevent us from gaining a reputation
in the academic community by sponsoring students of the classics or
archaeological projects.

If you vote against the tax proposal, you are voting to make Nova Roma
insignificant, impotent, and irrelevant.

> Dont let anybody punish us and trap us in to the tax trap

Don't be absurd. $12 or $20 a year (or less, for those with low
incomes) is not a "punishment" or a "trap" of any kind.

When you pay for a meal, is it a punishment or a trap? When you subscribe
to a magazine, is it a punishment or a trap? When you go to see a movie,
is it a punishment or a trap? All of these things have value.
Membership in Nova Roma also has value.

> We all help our Republic with VOLUNTERY work and will not anybody try
> to change it

No one is trying to change that! Voluntary work will always be
needed! All we're asking is that every citizen - those who do work
for Nova Roma, and those who do nothing at all - contribute his or her
fair share. We're asking such a small amount!

> Be free! Go vote and say NO!!! to Lex Vedia de assidui et capiti censi

Vote YES to the Lex that ensures that Nova Roma will prosper!

> Freedom of will, freedom of speech, freedom of tax.

In this country, the most well-established, effective, and respected
protector of free speech is the American Civil Liberties Union. I am
a member of this organization, a privilige that I am glad to pay $35
a year for. That group doesn't seem to think that a membership fee
for an organization that one joins voluntary is any sort of abridgement
of freedom.

Citizens, this is the most important issue we have ever voted on.
You're being asked to show that you care for the future of
Nova Roma. You're being asked to help us build a Nation. There are
those who seek to keep Nova Roma hobbled and insignificant, no more
than a web site and a collection of mailing lists. But many of us
dream of something more than that, dream of making Nova Roma a
respected organization with the ability to support itself through the
dedication of its citizens. Don't destroy the dream. Do not be a
miser who refuses to part with a dollar a month to support our dream
of a New Rome.

Vote YES to the Lex Vedia!

Valete, M. Octavius.

---
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] SUPPORT OUR REPUBLIC - "YES" TO TAXES! (was Re: NO TAXES !!!!)
From:	VMoeller@--------
Date:	Mon, 14 May 2001 11:10:31 EDT

Ave Longinus:

And how will you support the Republic? What volunteer service will you
donate? You have stated your willingness to do voluntary work for the
Republic in as much as you wrote the statement below:

<<<We all help our Republic with VOLUNTERY work>>>

What will you volunteer for? If you are sincere I have a fund raising
project for Nova Roma that I am planning that I could use some help on -
particularly a European point of view. How about it frater?

How will you serve?

Vale,

---Secunda Cornelia Valeria,
Quaestrix of Nova Roma, Propraetrix America Medioccidentalis Superior

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] SUPPORT OUR REPUBLIC - "YES" TO TAXES! (was Re: NO TAXES !!!!)
From:	QFabiusMax@--------
Date:	Mon, 14 May 2001 12:28:43 EDT

Salvete People of Rome.

When I joined Nova Roma in Sept. of 2750 AUC, I was convinced then as I am
now that we the populace must institute a "tax" structure, to accomplish its
goals.

The reasons are many, but the most important one is it adds to our
credibility.
Part of our appeal to scholars is that we are attempting to reconstruct the
religion and political hierarchy of the ancient republic. In return we will
eventually ask for monetary aid
to continue these studies. However, without our own self funding, we come
off as just a hobby, a diversion, a collection of Roman enthusiasts, ones
that are not even interested in making our nation grow.
I have studied how best to "tax," for several years now. I feel the "pay to
play" scenario is the best, and least discriminatory. If you are going to be
anybody in Rome, you are going have to pay for the privilege. Otherwise you
cannot be involved in the state.
While it is true, I would like to remove the vote from the head count, in
order to emphasize the importance of paying one's tax, the others over ruled
that idea, and we now have the current proposal on the ballot.
If Nova Roma is ever to be anything great, we have to supply that great, and
that means we must contribute, sweat, tears and money.
Vote yes on taxes! Lift us out of the mundane and set us on our path to
greatness.

Valete!

Q. Fabius Maximus
Proconsul

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Subject:	[novaroma] SUPPORT OUR REPUBLIC - "YES" TO TAXES! (was Re: NO TAXES !!!!)
From:	lsicinius@--------
Date:	Mon, 14 May 2001 17:43:54 -0000

Salvete Omnes,

How many of you would vote for a lex that set minimum income
standards to hold office? One that stated that NO citizen, no matter
how qualified, could hold our higher offices unless he earned more
than ???? US Dollars a year. A lex that set the Income level so high
for some offices that it prohibited many of our citizens from holding
those offices.

Citizens, We are living under that lex right now!

As long as we expect our Magistrates to pay ALL the costs of their
office, that IS the law. It is an unwritten law, but it limits who
can hold office just as much as any lex passed by one of the comitiae.

When you vote on the tax measure you are also voting on this very
unfair law. Vote to repeal the "minimum income lex" by voting FOR
taxes.

Valete,
L. Sicinius Drusus

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Subject:	[novaroma] The Period Research and Documentation Unit
From:	CW2ShaneEvans@--------
Date:	Mon, 14 May 2001 15:21:18 EDT

Salve Citizens,
I would like to take a moment to discuss the projects for which I have been
entrusted to accomplish for the Sodalitus Militarium. There are four
separate tasks that I will be working ok. Primary of these is the gathering
together of a set of military articles for a newsletter from the Miltarium to
be published on the Main List by the end of May, and sent to the Eagle for
it's next and following issues. I also plan to complete the finalization of
the Application For Nova Roma Sponsorshp of a Legio.

After these two primary tasks are completed, we need to compile a detailed
listing of Legio Accoutrement, Uniforms, and Weapons, together with the
Manufacturers of such. Then lastly, we need to gather the histories of the
individual Legios of the Republic and Empire.

I require eight volunteers for The Period Research and Documentation Unit.
There will be two committees of three individuals to help with the latter two
projects, and two additional individuals to serve as my assistants. I would
also like to invite all of you to submit articles for the Militarium
Newsletter. Deadline for submission is May 20.

If you wish to volunteer to serve as an assistant to me, or on one of these
committees, please contact me directly at your earliest conventience. Also,
please send any and all articles to myself and the scribus no later than noon
on May 20.

Thank you, and I hope that we will all be able to work closer together.

Strength & Honor,
Marcus Scipio Africanus
Tribune Angusticlavii Pro-Tem

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Subject:	[novaroma] NO!!!! TAXES
From:	rabotnik@--------
Date:	Mon, 14 May 2001 19:59:14 -0000

Petrus Artorius Longinus to my opponents and all Nova Roma Cives
S.P.D.

Salve !
Maybe my english is not very special but you (some of my opponents)
cant even say a word in my language also i belive that you are
inteligent enough to anderstand me when i say NO !!! to Lex Vedia de
assidui et capiti censi

1. I em against taxes becaus spoil people. When some people get lern
how get easy money very easy way thay will ask for more and more and
more and nobody could stop them because they will have Lex Vedia de
assidui et capiti censi

2. Roman cives are the flash of this republic, look! how successfuly
Nova Roma have grew up since last 3 years only because the work and
passion of common NR citizens and ther was'nt taxes and Lex Vedia de
assidui et capiti censi

3. Gouverment should ask NR people first das they really want taxes,
not trap people in unjust and tricky Lex Vedia de assidui et capiti
censi

4. If people of Nova Roma will agree for taxes (the worst
possibility) we should have independent from magistrate, special
public commision to controle state incomes and autcomes and to
defence frome people who promote Lex Vedia de assidui et capiti
censi

NO!!! taxes NO!!! Lex Vedia de assidui et capiti censi
FREEDOM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Vale bene!

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] SUPPORT OUR REPUBLIC - "YES" TO TAXES! (was Re: NO TAXES !!!!)
From:	Kristoffer From <kristoffer.from@-------->
Date:	Mon, 14 May 2001 22:29:07 +0200

lsicinius@-------- wrote:
> How many of you would vote for a lex that set minimum income
> standards to hold office? One that stated that NO citizen, no matter
> how qualified, could hold our higher offices unless he earned more
> than ???? US Dollars a year. A lex that set the Income level so high
> for some offices that it prohibited many of our citizens from holding
> those offices.
>
> As long as we expect our Magistrates to pay ALL the costs of their
> office, that IS the law. It is an unwritten law, but it limits who
> can hold office just as much as any lex passed by one of the comitiae.
>
> When you vote on the tax measure you are also voting on this very
> unfair law. Vote to repeal the "minimum income lex" by voting FOR
> taxes.

Salvete, Sicini Druse et omnes.

I know I agreed not to debate this issue any further, so therefore I
must apologize to Lucius Tiberius Sardonicus for doing so. I'm sorry, I
just couldn't help myself.

Good thinking, only paragraph 3C still prevents those less fortunate
from holding office. Otherwise, I agree. We need to get money to pay
some costs for our magistrates, and a taxation law is a good way to
start this process. However, if we, as you say, want anyone to be able
to hold office, we need to remove part 3C, thereby enabling those of
insufficient funds to stand for office. Isn't this what you were talking
about?

In effect, I'm still against the last paragraph of the current lex. If
you want fairness, you want taxation, but you also want your taxes to be
put to proper use, and this is somewhat prevented by III.C., in my
opinion.

Once again, I apologize for speaking up on this subject after having
agreed upon not doing so. Please forgive me.

Valete,

Titus Octavius Pius,
Consiliarius Thules,
Praeco Anarei Thules,
Scriba to the Curator Araneum

AKA Kristoffer From

---

Si hoc signum legere potes,
operis boni in rebus latinis alacribus
et fructuosis potiri potes.

- Not-so-famous quotation

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCS d- s:++> a-- C++>$ ULS++ P+ L++ E- W++(--) N
o-- K- w--- !O M-- V-- PS->$ PE- Y+ PGP- t+@ 5- X-
R+++>$ !tv- b+++>$ DI++++ D+ G e h! !r-->r+++ !x-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] NO!!!! TAXES
From:	VMoeller@--------
Date:	Mon, 14 May 2001 16:39:56 EDT

Salve Longinus:

So do I understand your response to my invitation to volunteer to do
some work for Nova Roma is NO?

And you're absolutely correct, I cannot speak a word of your language.
But can you speak in Potawatomi?

E' gwi mn (good bye) : )

---Secunda Cornelia Valeria

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Subject:	[novaroma] Congratulations!
From:	Kanat Elibol <kelibol@-------->
Date:	Tue, 15 May 2001 00:06:43 +0300

Avete....
I've seen that new people or new ideas were shot down on this
list...I've heard the dead
silence when someone speak against some generally accepted views or
the views some thought
as 'generally accepted'!...but congratulations!There is always
something new on this list!
This is the first time I've ever seen that someone made fun of
just because English isn't his
native language!
If taxes will help us to be more civil besides paying for the
expenses of our
magistrates...I'll pay!
Valete bene...

Publius Sentius Rutilianus Dexion

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Subject:	[novaroma] Voter Codes Invalid
From:	"Domna Claudia Auspicata" <comptess@-------->
Date:	Tue, 15 May 2001 09:06:15 +1200

Salvete Quirites

Could the following citizens with these Tracking numbers please check their Voter Codes and try to vote again as your Voter Codes were invalid. If you still have problems please contact the Censors or Rogators.

Tracking Numbers
6094
6098

Multas Gratias
Domna Claudia Auspicata
Rogator

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] NO!!!! TAXES
From:	TClaudiusNero@--------
Date:	Mon, 14 May 2001 16:45:13 EDT

Salvete,

I'm somewhat confused here. I don't quite understand the neccessity for such virulent opposition to the law currently being vote upon. I believe that Nova Roma needs a tax system, some monetary funding will be necessary in future to push Nova Roma into the real world. But, if I were opposed to taxes being imposed in Nova Roma, I wouldn't put my efforts into opposing this law, because it levies no tax... unless I have misread somewhere. Have I misread something? Is there going to be a tax implemented by the Lex Vedia?

Valete!
Claudius

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: NO!!!! TAXES
From:	lsicinius@--------
Date:	Mon, 14 May 2001 21:31:29 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, rabotnik@w... wrote:
> Petrus Artorius Longinus to my opponents and all Nova Roma Cives
> S.P.D.
>
> Salve !
> Maybe my english is not very special but you (some of my opponents)
> cant even say a word in my language also i belive that you are
> inteligent enough to anderstand me when i say NO !!! to Lex Vedia de
> assidui et capiti censi

Salve Longinus,

No, I don't speak your language. Your English is good enough that I
understand what you are trying to say, and allthough I disagree with
you, You have earned my respect for your effort to make us aware of
your views. As for those who would make fun of your English skills, it
reflects on their Dignitas more than yours. I did see the humor in the
error in your first post, and I think that the posts were poking fun
at your error, not at you.

>
> 1. I em against taxes becaus spoil people. When some people get lern
> how get easy money very easy way thay will ask for more and more and
> more and nobody could stop them because they will have Lex Vedia de
> assidui et capiti censi
>
What they ask for, and what they get are two separate things. Yes the
Senate has the power to set the tax rate at US$ 1,000.00 a year if
they wish. I'm sure that they also realize that if they did Nova Roma
would have about the same number of citizens as the number of Senators
that voted for that absurd ammount.

My Gens comes from Lucius Sicinius. He one of the leaders in the
movement that led to the establishment of the office of tribune. It
was his plan that the Plebs withdraw from Roma to the Sacred Mount
until the Patricians met their demands. This power still exists, and
the Senate is aware that if they drift too far from the people, that
they will withdraw their support and leave Nova Roma, not as a planned
strike like my namesake led, but rather by indiviuals resigning, or
simply becoming inactive citizens until there is little left of Nova
Roma. This more than anything else will keep the tax rate reasonable.

> 2. Roman cives are the flash of this republic, look! how successfuly
> Nova Roma have grew up since last 3 years only because the work and
> passion of common NR citizens and ther was'nt taxes and Lex Vedia de
> assidui et capiti censi

There is a limit how far Nova Roma can progress without money, and I
think we are close to that limit.
>
> 3. Gouverment should ask NR people first das they really want taxes,
> not trap people in unjust and tricky Lex Vedia de assidui et capiti
> censi

The Lex Vedia de assidui et capiti censi is a form of asking us. The
Senate has the power to impose taxes at anytime. The Constitution
section V B 2 states "The Senate may, by Senatus consultum, impose
taxes, fees, or other financial requirements on the citizens in order
to maintain the financial welfare of the state." No matter what the
outcome of this vote, the Senate can meet and impose taxes, and could
have done so without bothering to give us the chance to vote on the
penalities.

>
> 4. If people of Nova Roma will agree for taxes (the worst
> possibility) we should have independent from magistrate, special
> public commision to controle state incomes and autcomes and to
> defence frome people who promote Lex Vedia de assidui et capiti
> censi

An intresting idea, but it would require that the Constitution be
amended. Since the Senate has to approve admendments, there's little
chance of them approving this limit on their historic powers.

Vale,
Lucius Sicinius Drusus
>
> NO!!! taxes NO!!! Lex Vedia de assidui et capiti censi
> FREEDOM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Vale bene!

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] NO!!!! TAXES
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@-------->
Date:	Tue, 15 May 2001 00:02:58 +0200

Salve Honorable Petrus Artorius Longinus et Omnes!

I don't share your opinion about taxes. I think we need them! But, I think
that we can and must work together in the future to get Nova Roma going. I
also appreciate your will to work for Nova Roma. After this vote I hope
that we will be able to work together for Nova Roma. I am sure it is
possible to once and again have different opinions and still work side by
side after the decisions are made!

But I also think that this issue isn't decided with this vote. If we vote
for Lex Vedia de assidui et capiti censi, the only thing that will happen
is that we get certain rules that will decide what will happen IF we
sometime in the future get taxes. It is the Senate that has the power to
decide about taxes, but the Comitia can change the law. So You haven't lost
yet, even if this law go through.

To the rest of the citizens of Nova Roma I must say that it is sad to see
people make fun of someone who isn't a native English speaker. Shame on
You! I most strongly dissociate myself from those who use mockery as a
political weapon. I am convinced that if one follows the Roman viritues,
one will never lower oneself to such a low level of debatte.

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
Join the List for the Thule Provincia in Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThuleNovaRoma/join
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://www.acc.umu.se/~kerish/novaroma/main.html
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
Caeso, he who also is known as Christer Edling.
************************************************
Using a keyboard that don't want to make L! :-(
************************************************
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MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80

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Subject:	[novaroma] SUPPORT OUR REPUBLIC - "YES" TO TAXES! (was Re: NO TAXES !!!!)
From:	lsicinius@--------
Date:	Mon, 14 May 2001 23:08:58 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, Kristoffer From <kristoffer.from@t...> wrote:
> lsicinius@-------- wrote:
> > How many of you would vote for a lex that set minimum income
> > standards to hold office? One that stated that NO citizen, no matter
> > how qualified, could hold our higher offices unless he earned more
> > than ???? US Dollars a year. A lex that set the Income level so high
> > for some offices that it prohibited many of our citizens from holding
> > those offices.
> >
> > As long as we expect our Magistrates to pay ALL the costs of their
> > office, that IS the law. It is an unwritten law, but it limits who
> > can hold office just as much as any lex passed by one of the comitiae.
> >
> > When you vote on the tax measure you are also voting on this very
> > unfair law. Vote to repeal the "minimum income lex" by voting FOR
> > taxes.
>
> Salvete, Sicini Druse et omnes.
>
> I know I agreed not to debate this issue any further, so therefore I
> must apologize to Lucius Tiberius Sardonicus for doing so. I'm sorry, I
> just couldn't help myself.
>
> Good thinking, only paragraph 3C still prevents those less fortunate
> from holding office. Otherwise, I agree. We need to get money to pay
> some costs for our magistrates, and a taxation law is a good way to
> start this process. However, if we, as you say, want anyone to be able
> to hold office, we need to remove part 3C, thereby enabling those of
> insufficient funds to stand for office. Isn't this what you were talking
> about?
>
> In effect, I'm still against the last paragraph of the current lex. If
> you want fairness, you want taxation, but you also want your taxes to be
> put to proper use, and this is somewhat prevented by III.C., in my
> opinion.
>
> Once again, I apologize for speaking up on this subject after having
> agreed upon not doing so. Please forgive me.
>
> Valete,
>
> Titus Octavius Pius,
> Consiliarius Thules,
> Praeco Anarei Thules,
> Scriba to the Curator Araneum
>
> AKA Kristoffer From
>

Salvete Omnes,

Titus Octavius has a good point here. I don't want it to be impossible
for a citizen who can't afford to pay taxes to be banned from office.
In my Macro National state we have filing fees that a canidate has to
pay to get on the ballot. We also have a procedure where a poor person
can file as a pauper after showing proof of inability to pay. It is
very rare for a pauper to be elected, but it has happened, most
recentaly a woman who lives in public housing was elected, as a
pauper, to the Board that oversees public housing.

As for those who could afford to pay taxes, but were too cheap to do
so, There is little likelyhood they would be elected even without a
ban. This law does make payment of taxes a matter of public record. 3A
states "The Censors shall place all capiti censi in the last century
in Class V as defined in the Lex Vedia Centuriata and those leges
which may amend it, and no other Citizens shall be enrolled therein."
so all anyone has to do to see if a citizen has paid his taxes is look
to see which Century he is enrolled in. If it's 193, he didn't pay.
This alone will make most non-taxpayers unelectable, regardless of 3C.

Right now the few citizens who might still be electable after not
paying taxes are far outnumbered by the citizens who can afford to pay
taxes, but can't afford to pay ALL the costs of holding office,
getting taxes will result in more citizens being able to serve. The
citizens who will be banned by 3C because they can't afford to pay,
are allready banned by the unwritten "Minimum Income Lex" anyway.

I voted for this Lex. It's good points far outweigh it's bad ones, and
perhaps in the future we will be able to get a paupers admendment added.

Valete,
Lucius Sicinius Drusus

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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] SUPPORT OUR REPUBLIC - "YES" TO TAXES! (was Re: NO TAXES !!!!)
From:	"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@-------->
Date:	Mon, 14 May 2001 11:08:11 -0400

Salve,

>>I am shocked and dismayed to see such strong opposition to a moderate and
just law that is absolutely essential for the future of Nova Roma.>>

Perhaps I am cynical, but I am always suspicious of anyone who....as
"rabotnik" did....joins the NR Main List and *less* then 5 minutes later
posts a message such as his. No introduction, no discussion, just a "blast".

::shrug::

As I say, perhaps I am cynical, but I take such things with a grain of salt.
I also trust that the majority of our cives can see quite clearly the value
and necessity of the law in question.

Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena

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Subject:	[novaroma] Soldiers shourd be exempt!
From:	"Sean Sheridan Richards" <legioix@-------->
Date:	Mon, 14 May 2001 23:40:33 -0000

Since soldiers are already in the pay of the STATE they should be exempt from taxes. We give our lives for the State and now
you want our money too?

Centurio Gaius Valerius Tacitus Hibernicus
LEG IX HSPA

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Subject:	[novaroma] Edictum Propraetoricium XVII about the Appointment of two Tresviri Academia Novae Romae in Thule and two Scribae Academia Novae Romae in Thule.
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@-------->
Date:	Tue, 15 May 2001 00:59:21 +0200

Ex Officio Propraetoris Thulae

Edictum Propraetoricium XVII about the Appointment of two Tresviri Academia
Novae Romae in Thule and two Scribae Academia Novae Romae in Thule.

It is a great pleasure for me, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, to appoint these
Honorable citizens to the staff of the Academia Novae Romae in Thule and
the Cohors Propraetoris (The Propraetorian Staff, Provincial Governament)!

I, as a Nova Roman citizen within the Provincia Thule, am proud to see the
Gravitas and Pietas these citizens show! My workload is heavy at this point
and my loyal and hard-working Legatus Honorable Caius Curius Saturninus has
taken on him to ease some of this burden. This edictum appoints the
nessecary assistants to work with him in the project of the newly founded
Academia Novae Romae in Thule. This staff blends the experienced with the
young and the students at University level with the students of life, two
Finns work with one Amercian, one Norwegian and one Spaniard. I am sure
that this group has the right mixture to make the Academia a success.

I. Illustrus Senator, Quaestor and Proconsul Marcus Minucius Audens is
hereby appointed as Triumvir Novae Romae Academiae in Thule (Member of the
Board of the Nova Roman Academy in Thule).

II. Honorable Senior Legatus and Legatus Regionis Norvegicae Gaius
Rubellius Rufus is hereby appointed as Triumvir Novae Romae Academiae in
Thule (Member of the Board of the Nova Roman Academy in Thule).

III. Honorable Gnaeus Salix Astur is hereby appointed as "Scriba ad Res
Externas Academiae Thules" (a Scriba with the responsibility for PR and
external contacts).

IV. Honorable Emilia Curia Finnica is hereby appointed as "Scriba Araniae
Academiae Thules"(a Scriba who is in charge of the Academia homepage).

V. Above appointed officials are asked to observe that they is bound by the
"Approved Regula (Charter) for the Administration of Thule" as it was
published on the 15th of April 2001.

VI. As officials of Provincia Thule they is asked to, within one week swear
the public oath shown on
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/lex99191002.html, using both their Nova
Roman name and within parenthesis their macroworld (real) name. Observe that
the Oath must include all in this Editum appointed positions of each cives.
The Oath
must be published on the NovaRomaThule List and the Nova Roma Roma Main
List!

VII. This edictum becomes effective immediately.

Given May 15th, in the year of the consulship of Flavius Vedius
Germanicus and Marcus Cassius Iulianus, 2754 AUC.

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Propraetor Thules

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
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Join the List for the Thule Provincia in Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThuleNovaRoma/join
************************************************
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http://www.acc.umu.se/~kerish/novaroma/main.html
************************************************
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"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
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************************************************
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************************************************
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Subject:	[novaroma] Edictum Propraetoricium XVI about Additional Rules and Guidelines regarding the organization of Academia Novae Romae in Thule
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@-------->
Date:	Tue, 15 May 2001 01:44:30 +0200

Ex Officio Propraetoris Thulae

Edictum Propraetoricium XVI about Additional Rules and Guidelines regarding
the organization of Academia Novae Romae in Thule

I. Guidelines

Table of contents

1. Administration of the Academia
1.1 Overall description
1.2 Description of positions
1.3 For the future
2. Finances of the Academia
3. Teaching in the Academia
3.1 Proposal for the first course
3.2 Proposal for Lector's manual
3.3 Proposal for course plan
4. Students
4.1 Suitable number of Students
4.2 Student archives
4.3 Proposal for levelling students
5. Schedule of building the Academia
6. The first meeting of triumvirate
6.1 Proposal for the agenda of the first meeting

1. Administration of the Academia
In this chapter there is a more detailed version of the administration of
the Academia, a description of each position and some ideas for the future.

1.1 Overall description
As the Academia will be quite a small organisation in the beginning, there
is no need for a complicated administration. Day-to-day issues can be
easily handled by just one person, but in the planning sector there needs
to be more people involved. Official titles for different positions are
partly yet to be constructed, instead here is used pseudo names that are to
be replaced with official titles later. Here is the basic structure of the
Academia administration:

"Procurator Novae Romae Academiae in Thule" (here after called the
Procurator in this document) handles the day-to-day operations of the
Academia, which mainly include just operating by the plan that is made
earlier and dealing with the issues that arise. The second part of the
Procurator's job is to be the head of the Triumvirate. The Triumvirate
handles the planning and educational aspects of the Academia such as the
appointment of the Lectores. The Lectores are the teachers of the courses
in the Academia.

The most versatile position in the Academia is the position of Scriba, the
different Scribae are basically assistants of the Procurator and the
Triumvirate.

The Propraetor Thules has a veto-right for every decision made by any
member of the Academia administration. He will also be the judge in the
internal issues of the Academia. He also will take a part in the
strategical decisions of the Academia, by being a member of the Triumvirate
mail list.

1.2 Description of positions

1.2.1 The Procurator Novae Romae Academiae in Thule
The position of "Procurator Academia Novae Romae in Thule" is the key
position in the Academia. The Procurator handles the day-to-day operations
according to the plan made by Triumvirate at the beginning of each year. He
also acts as a Praeses (chairman) of the Triumvirate.

He is responsible for his decisions and actions to the Propraetor Thules.
The Procurator reports to the Propraetor Thules by CC all mails as
Procurator to the Propraetor Thules and by the fact that the Propraetor
Thules is a member of the Triumvirate e-mail list. The more specific
questions of his role can be found within the individual issues later on in
this document.

1.2.2 The "Tresviri Novae Romae Academiae in Thule"
The "Tresviri Novae Romae Academiae in Thule" (here after called the
Triumvirate or Triumviri in this document), as it name suggests, consists
of three persons. The members of the Triumvirate will be of Legati rank.
The Triumvirate will have a separate mailing list "The Academia Triumvirate
List" to use for their meetings and internal contacts, members shall be the
Triumviri and the Propraetor Thules.

The Praeses et Triumvir Novae Romae Academiae in Thule (chairman and member
of the Triumvirate) is the Procurator and he presents to the Triumvirate
the agenda for it's meetings that are held at the beginning of each year,
and sometimes at other times of the year, if necessary. The Praeses makes
the decision of the final opinion of the triumvirate, but if both the other
members are not satisfied with the decision, they can make an official
complaint to the Propraetor Thules, who decides what to do with the issue.

The Propraetor Thules may on the proposal of the Procurator "call in" one
or more extra participant(s) in the Triumvirate who will be called
"Consuasor Advocatus" (call in "forceful" advisor). They will function as
advisor(s) on the Triumvirate for a Plenum at the time. This "Consuasor
Advocatus" shall have the right to give advise, but not to vote. All three
Triumviri should agree to accept one or more specific extra "advisor(s)",
otherwise there should be no "Consuasor Advocatus" at that Plenum of the
Triumvirate. The title of "Consuasor Advocatus" is not a permanent title or
position.

The triumvirate is basically the planning body of the Academia. In the
meeting at the beginning of the year, the number of courses, a guideline to
their contents and the target number of the students for each course, is
decided. Also, the Triumvirate decides about the requirements for a lector
for each course and is responsible for acquiring the suitable lectors for
the courses. Additionally, the triumvirate makes a budget proposal for the
year. The Triumvirate is also the soul of the Academia, it decides about
the rules and ethical principles of the Academia, the educational goals,
the quality control of all the actions of the Academia, the cooperation
projects with other individuals and organizations. The Triumvirate also
appoints Lectores and has the power to dismiss a Lector from his position.

1.2.3 The Lectores
The Lector is the teacher of a course / courses in the Academia. The Lector
has the responsibility of the actual teaching according to the plan, which
he must present to the Triumvirate that decides if the candidate is
suitable to be a Lector. He has a right to propose for an expulsion of a
student in certain types of cases (specified later on in this document).
The decision of the actual expulsion of a student is made by the
Triumvirate. He may be entitled to have compensation for his expenses from
the teaching (also later on in this document).

1.2.4 Scribae
Basically, the Scribae are assistants of the Procurator and sometimes also
assistants of the Triumvirate. They can have a variety of functions inside
the Academia. They are always appointed by the Propraetor Thules by
recommendation of the Procurator. The Propraetor Thules can remove them
from their position, by recommendation, if necessary, of the Procurator.
Here are some ideas what kind of functions a Scriba can have:

a) " Scriba Specialista"
Scriba Specialista is a scriba that will advise the Procurator and the
Triumvirate. They are appointed for an one year period, and when appointed,
they will be given a mission, for example if there is an individual who
specializes in the Roman school-system, he can be appointed to a Scriba
with a mission to make a proposal for converting the organisation of the
Academia into more Roman form. Specialist can also be, for example, a
marketing specialist who will be given a mission to produce some marketing
material for the Academia.

b) "Consultor Academiae Thules" (Advisor of Scriba Rank for the Academia)
There can be an advisor scriba, whose function would be to serve as an
advisor in different fields outside the Triumvirate.

c) "Scriba Fiscalis"
There can be a financial-scriba, whose job is to calculate the budget and
run financial operations at the strict control of the Procurator.

d) "Scriba Explorator"
There can be researcher-scriba, who will be appointed to produce teaching
material for Academia. They will have to do a research plan in which there
would be a cleary stated field of study and a proposal of the teaching
material that this research would produce for Academia. Of course these
individuals could use the result of their study also at other venues than
Academia if they wish to do so.

e) "Scriba Archivista"
Archivist-scriba would have a job of archiving different documents in
Academia. These could include: past and present students and their study
history in Academia, past and present Lectores and the courses they have
arranged, the decisions from procurator and triumvirate, teaching material,
cooperation projects, etc. As Academia grows there can be a substantial
amount of information that needs to stored in proper manner!

f) "Scriba Secretarius"
Doing with different sorts of secretarial work.

g) "Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules", a Scriba with the
responsibility for PR and external contacts. The "Scriba ad Res Externas
Academiae Thules" is given the resposibiliy to assist the Procurator Nova
Roma Academia Thules with the public relations and external contacts of the
Academia. The "Scriba ad Res Externas Academia Thules" will get his
instructions from the Procurator Nova Roma Academia Thules and must never
act without such instructions. All instructions from the "Procurator
Academia Novae Romae in Thule" to the "Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae
Thules" should be in writing and a copy must be sent to the Propraetor
Thules.

h) "Scriba Araniae Academiae Thules", a scriba with the responsibility for
building and upkeeping the Academia web pages according to the decisions by
the Procurator and the Triumvirate. All the official updates to the
Academia web site are reported to Propraetor Thules by "Scriba Araniae
Academiae Thules" within 24 hrs. from the publishing of the update. If the
Propraetor objects the published update, he can order for that update to be
removed from the website.

1.3 In the future
In the future it is important to develop the administration of the Academia
further, there might be need for consider the separating the offices of
Procurator and Praeses (chairman) of the Triumvirate in order to cut the
power of the Procurator and give more power to the Triumvirate. Also there
should be at least a study about Roman schooling system and how the
Academia can be brought closer to the original Roman Academiae or schools.

2. Finances of Academia
In the core of all monetary issues in the Academia is the annual budget,
this budget is constructed by the Triumvirate (the Triumvirate can also ask
some 3rd party to give advises etc.) and it will be presented to the
Propraetor Thules, who approves it or makes the necessary adjustments into
it.

The Academia may have its own account in the treasury of the provincia, it
also may have its own treasury under the control of the Propraetor Thules
or some other magistrate, who the Propraetor Thules has appointed. This
account/treasury can be used for the handling of the Academia income and
expenses and it can accept donations with the approval of the Procurator
(for every donation there must be made a plea of approval). Of course, the
Propraetor has veto for every action in the financial scene also. The money
in the Academia account/tresury can only be used in a way which is
described in the Academia budget.

If during the year there will be expenses that are not included in the
Academia budget, made at the beginning of the year, the triumvirate can
make a revision of the budget. It must be handeled with same procedures as
the first budget of the year in order to be legal.

The Procurator and possibly other officials in the Academia, with approval
of the Procurator, will handle the finances of the Academia according to
the budget. It is the Procurator's responsibility to make sure that
finances are handled in a proper manner. The Propraetor Thules can issue at
any time an examination of the Academia account/treasury, if there are any
doubts that the Academia's finances are not handeled in a proper manner.
This examination can only be done by Propraetor Thules himself or some 3rd
party he gives an order to carry out the examination.

There can be various expenses and sources of income. These will be decided
by the Triumvirate and approved by the Propraetor Thules

For Lectores, there can be a compensation for the expenses they get from
the teaching, but there must be a request made and a proof given of these
expenses. Lectores can also make a suggestion to be included into the next
budget for triumvirate to consider.

If there will be a situation in which the Lector has been promised
compensations from the teaching, and he does not finish the course he is
teaching, the Procurator makes a decision whether the compensation will be
paid or not. If the Lector objects the decision, he can complain to the
Propraetor who decides about the final outcome.

There can be a fee for a course in order to cover the expenses of it (for
example a hired speaker for some lection of the course). These, naturally,
have to be included in the budget.

To all financial decisions applies that the Academia is for teaching not
for collecting money! If there is some money collected, it must be used for
educational purposes.

3. Teaching in the Academia
The Lectores of the Academia are appointed by the Triumvirate. The
Propraetor has veto in this issue too. The Triumvirate makes the
appointment according to a procedure it finds proper. The Triumvirate have
the power to dismiss a Lector at any time, if they find it necessary. The
Procurator can also remove a Lector from his position, but for this he
needs the approval of the Propraetor Thules. If the Lector doesn't approve
this decision of the Procurator or the Triumvirate, he can make a complaint
to the Propraetor, who decides about the final outcome of the matter.

The chosen Lector makes an oath in which he promises to carry out the
course he will be teaching.

The teaching must be carried out according to a course plan which the
teacher writes (or uses a previously written plan) and presents to the
Triumvirate before he is appointed to a Lector to that course. The
Triumvirate accepts the course plan or makes adjustments to it and if both
sides agree about the plan, it will be accepted, and the Lector gets the
permission to teach in the Academia. If this plan is not followed during
the course, the Triumvirate can give warnings. When a Lector has three
warnings within one course he will be immiedtly removed from his position,
but he can make a complaint to the Propraetor who decides about the outcome
of the issue.

The Triumvirate controls the quality of the teaching in the Academia in the
way they consider necessary.

The Lector has a right to propose the expelling of a student from a course
to the Procurator, if he finds it necessary. The decision of the actual
expulsion of a student is made by the Triumvirate. The student can make a
complaint to the Propraetor Thules, who decides about the outcome.

3.1 Proposal for the first course

The "Welcome to the Nova Roma" course

This course would consist of 6 topics and 7 weeks.
1. First week would be dedicated to the basics of Nova Roman living, the
contents of the course and people to get to know each other.
2. Second week there could be teaching about the roman virtues and philosophy.
3. Third week would be philosophy, religion and mythology.
4. Fourth week would be history and social structures and administration of
R.A.
5. Fifth week would be history and administration of N.R.
6. Sixth week would be activities in N.R., roman days, sodalitas etc "what
one can do in N.R.".
7. Seventh week would be free discussion or topic chosen by participants of
the course (or Lector).

3.2 Proposal for Lector's manual
The Academia needs to construct a Lectors manual for helping the Lector to
begin his teaching and make his job at the Academia easier. The following
topics should be included:
-responsibilities of a Lector
-how the Academia works
-about the rights of a Lector
-about the rights of a student
-what is needed for organizing an email-course
-an example of a one week's activity in the course (good and bad things
demonstrated)
-how to level the students
-how to construct a course plan

3.3 Proposal for Academia courses for 2001
The Academia starts the year 2001 with one course only, the "Welcome to the
Nova Roma" course. This can be held more than once in a year, if there will
be enough students to participate and the Academia finds the
Lector/Lectores to arrange the courses. The first course could begin at
August 2001 to ensure that the Academia has enough time to get its act
together.

4. Students
The students are accepted to the Academia after they've sent an application
form (an electronic form in the Academia website or email that contains
necessary information). The Procurator accepts the students to the course,
or he may ask the Propraetor Thules to appoint scriba to handle that if
necessary. If there is a limit for the number of the students to each
course, the students are accepted by order in which their application forms
arrive. The students will be sent a confirmation that they are accepted to
the course well before the course starts and be given information about the
course. In some courses there may be special requirements that student must
fulfill before he can be accepted to the course.

The student can quit a course at any time he wishes by sending a
notification to the Lector and the Procurator.

4.1 Suitable number of Students
The suitable number of students per course varies, but in general 10 - 30
student would be ideal. Although it is realistic to have much fewer
students in the courses during the two first years. The more specific, more
intensive and longer the course is, the smaller number of students can be
taken in, but this depends on the Lector, also. When being appointed to a
Lector and finalizing the course plan for a course, there should a be some
kind of an estimate about the maximum and minimun number of students for
the course included in the course plan.

4.2 Student archives
Various information is collected from students. Basic contact information,
the number of courses one has attended and when, and the grades one has got
from the courses.

This information is partly public and partly confidential.

At any circumstance, contact information of a student will not be given to
any other parts than the following: Propraetor, Procurator, current members
of the Triumvirate, the scriba that has been ordered to keep up the
archives and the student himself.

The grades of a student will not shared with any other than the following:
the Propraetor, the Procurator, the Triumvirate, the student himself and
the Lector.

The grades can be anonymously collected for statistical analysis by the
Triumvirate and the Procurator.

No information about if a certain person has taken a certain course can be
inquired by the Procurator, if there isn't a very good case for the
Procurator to give out such information. The student in question must give
his/her consent to such actions.

4.3 Proposal for levelling students
Some sort of levelling of the students is recommended, it can be done by
grades which the triumvirate has ordered to be followed or by a written
statement from the Lector. The 2001 "Welcome to the Nova Roma" course is,
by nature, such a course that will not be levelled in any way, the student
recieves a certificate that he has taken part to the course. Later on, when
there will be more courses in the Academia, the welcoming course will also
include necessary information about the Academia and is obligational for a
student to study in the Academia.

5. Schedule of building the Academia
This schedule is preliminary and depends on who will be appointed to
different posts and their own time schedule. This therefore is more of a
list of goals.

7th of May 2001 The search for the other two members for the Triumvirate begins
14th of May 2001 The decision of the two other members of the Triumvirate
is done
15th of May 2001 The Propraetor announces the plan for building the
Academia (this document)
20th of May 2001 The first meeting of triumvirate begins
10th of June 2001 The first meeting of the Triumvirate ends
20th of June 2001 The opening of the Academia webpages
15th of August 2001 The first course of the Academia begins

There will naturally be more in this schedule, when the first meeting of
Triumvirate gets underway and the administration of the Academia can make
concrete decisions about the operations of the Academia.

6. First meeting of Triumvirate
In the first meeting of the Triumvirate there will be lots of work to be
done in building the Academia. In it the Procurator presents an agenda for
the meeting and leads the discussion about the issues in it. In the issues
that are discussed there will be some sort proposal for a edict by
Triumvirate for the Propraetor Thules to accept or not accept.

6.1 Proposal for the agenda of the first meeting
Following topics should be included to the agenda of the first meeting of
the triumvirate:
-plan the contents of the course
-how do we get lector for that course
-do we need any scribae to help with the work
-plan the budget for 2001
-decide guidelines for a suitable number of students
-decide, when the first course will be held and how the students send an
application and what information there should be in the application etc.
-decide when the next meeting of the triumvirate takes place
-decide how the Academia is presented to the citizens of Nova Roma, and
what marketing there is to be done and how it is to be done
-start the work for getting educational material for the Academia
(cooperation concepts, research-scribae etc)
-plan instructions for Lectors, students, courses etc
-decide what information there should be at the webpages of the Academia

II. This edictum becomes effective immediately.

Given May 15th, in the year of the consulship of Flavius Vedius Germanicus
and Marcus Cassius Iulianus, 2754 AUC.

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Propraetor Thule

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
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Join the List for the Thule Provincia in Nova Roma
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The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://www.acc.umu.se/~kerish/novaroma/main.html
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
Caeso, he who also is known as Christer Edling.
************************************************
Using a keyboard that don't want to make L! :-(
************************************************
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Subject:	[novaroma] SUPPORT OUR REPUBLIC - "YES" TO TAXES! (was Re: NO TAXES !!!!)
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Mon, 14 May 2001 18:50:38 -0500 (CDT)

Salve Patre Artori Longine,

> Maybe my english is not very special but you (some of my opponents)
> cant even say a word in my language also i belive that you are
> inteligent enough to anderstand me when i say NO !!! to Lex Vedia de
> assidui et capiti censi

Certainly, we understand you. The intent of your words is clear, but
it is something I strongly disagree with.

> 1. I em against taxes becaus spoil people. When some people get lern
> how get easy money very easy way thay will ask for more and more and
> more and nobody could stop them because they will have Lex Vedia de
> assidui et capiti censi

You have the power to stop them at any time, simply by not paying. We
have no way to compel anyone to do his duty to Nova Roma.

> 2. Roman cives are the flash of this republic, look! how successfuly
> Nova Roma have grew up since last 3 years only because the work and
> passion of common NR citizens and ther was'nt taxes and Lex Vedia de
> assidui et capiti censi

All that we have accomplished in those years was done with the hard
work -- and the money -- of a relative handful of citizens. We're just
trying to establish a more fair and equitable distribution of the
costs of this great project of ours. Money is *necessary*; nothing
can change that. Why should the same few people have to bear the entire
financial burden of the republic themselves?

> 3. Gouverment should ask NR people first das they really want taxes,

That's exactly what we're doing here. The people have been asked whether
they want Nova Roma to prosper by providing an incentive for citizens
to pay taxes, or whether they want Nova Roma to stagnate and wither
in poverty.

> not trap people in unjust and tricky Lex Vedia de assidui et capiti
> censi

Come now, don't be ridiculous! I defy you to show why this proposed
law is either "unjust" or "tricky". It is just because it seeks to have
all citizens share the burden equally (or as equally as their personal
finances permit). And there is nothing the slightest bit "tricky" in
it, the law is straightforward, honest, and easy to understand.

> NO!!! taxes NO!!! Lex Vedia de assidui et capiti censi
> FREEDOM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"FREEDOM" does not mean "FREE LUNCH". Citizenship in Nova Roma has
a value, and everything of value has a price attached. This is an
organization where membership is voluntary, and like every other
such organization, we have a right to charge a membership fee.

No freedom is being taken away from you! If you refuse to pay, you
will not lose your citizenship. This law makes a considerable effort
to compromise and to accomodate those who cannot or simply will not
pay. When this law passes, you'll have a choice to make; you'll be
able to choose whether you wish to be a fully contributing member,
a partner in our great work, or someone who's just along for the ride.

Vote YES on the Lex Vedia!

Vale, Octavius.

--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator

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Subject:	[novaroma] Vote YES on the Lex Vedia!
From:	Mark A Bird <mark_a_bird@-------->
Date:	Tue, 15 May 2001 09:50:13 +1000

Ave All,

I have been offline for a couple of Days - when do the polls close ???? - As
this is one law that I will be voting in favour of - who in the right mind
could not support the reasoning behind nova wanting to establish a revenue
base to achieve its goals and objectives.

Marcus Sentius Claudius

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Vote YES on the Lex Vedia!
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Mon, 14 May 2001 19:00:40 -0500 (CDT)

Salve Marce Senti,

> I have been offline for a couple of Days - when do the polls close ????

The Comitia will close on May 20th, so there's still plenty of time to
vote. There are links on the main page to the Comitia page, and you can
look up your private voter code in the Album Civium.

> As this is one law that I will be voting in favour of - who in the right mind
> could not support the reasoning behind nova wanting to establish a revenue
> base to achieve its goals and objectives.

Excellent! This law is vital for the future of Nova Roma.

Vale, Octavius.

--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator

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