Forum Romanum


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] A Strange Pattern
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Thu, 24 May 2001 17:02:11 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete omnes; et salve, Hon. Quæstor Ulleri Venator.

--- Steven - Piparskeggr <catamount_grange@--------> wrote:

<<snipped>>

> These are a few of the alt character list, within Windows© standard
> keyboard encoding. They are done by holding down the ALT key and
> typing
> the numbers on the right hand keypad.
>
> 0126 ~ 0127 0128 € 0129 0130 ‚
> 0131 ƒ 0132 „ 0133 … 0134 † 0135 ‡
> and so on,
>
> 0198 Æ 0230 æ 0140 Œ 0156 œ et ceteras...

Thank you very much. As you can see above, I have made good use of your
help ;-).

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: A Strange Pattern
From:	"A. Cato" <a.cato@-------->
Date:	Thu, 24 May 2001 20:11:59 -0400

Salve: I find that ALT 145 also makes æ. There are more then one combination for individual characters it seems.
Vale, ... A. Cato

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Youth in Nova Roma
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 00:26:26 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "A. Cato" <a.cato@s...> wrote:
> Salvete Omnes: The topic of youth in Nova Roma I find very
interesting as my own thirteen year old son has just applied for
citizenship. But as far as lowering the voting age goes, allow me to
voice my opinion.
>
> If or when we lower the voting age I believe that we should ask
ourselves if a fifteen, sixteen, or seventeen year old has not only
the intelligence to understand the issues, but also the wisdom, in
order to make an wise decision. Generally, most countries base there
minimum voting age at a age when most adults agree that a great
majority of the members of that age group have reached a level of
wisdom to make decisions of such magnitude.

SNIP

Salvete,

Think about the Nature of a 16 year old who would join Nova Roma. He
is showing an intrest in Ancient History, Philosphy, or Religion. The
very fact that he is here shows that he has a greater level of
maturity than many of his peers. If we look closely at our 16 and 17
year old citizens I wouldn't be surprised to find that most of them
were more mature than your average 18 year old Macro National Citizen.

Valete,
L. Sicinius Drusus

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Youth in Nova Roma
From:	gcassiusnerva@--------
Date:	Thu, 24 May 2001 20:34:55 EDT

In a message dated 5/24/01 5:30:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
lsicinius@-------- writes:

> The
> very fact that he is here shows that he has a greater level of
> maturity than many of his peers.

I disagree. It could equally show he/she is doing what adolescents
do---looking for sensations, and a sense of belonging, or of being
'different'. It does not mean they have any lasting or substantial interest.

Put it another way---when you were 13, 14,15, how many things did you want to
be when you grew up? How many times were you certain you "found the right
girl"?

Do you really want to entrust political power to these? Would you want them
contolling your credit card account?

Nerva

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Youth in Nova Roma
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 00:59:27 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, gcassiusnerva@c... wrote:
> In a message dated 5/24/01 5:30:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> lsicinius@-------- writes:
>
>
> > The
> > very fact that he is here shows that he has a greater level of
> > maturity than many of his peers.
>
> I disagree. It could equally show he/she is doing what adolescents
> do---looking for sensations, and a sense of belonging, or of being
> 'different'. It does not mean they have any lasting or substantial
interest.
>
>
> Put it another way---when you were 13, 14,15, how many things did
you want to
> be when you grew up? How many times were you certain you "found the
right
> girl"?
>
> Do you really want to entrust political power to these? Would you
want them
> contolling your credit card account?
>
> Nerva
>
LOL,

I worked on a US Presidental Campaign as a gofer when I was 11, so I
was quite capable of making that kind of choice 5 years later. I
wanted to work with Computers for as long as I can remember (and I'm
old enough that back then it wasn't because of home computers, they
hadn't been invented yet) and I don't trust ME with my credit card
account ;o).

A 16 Year old that is just looking for the latest thrill will find us
grumpy old Romans very boring, with our endless debates. If he's
looking for a sense of belonging he will find us way too argumentive,
and head for some touchy feely New Age site. As for "different" the
more immature teens live by a herd mentality. They want to be
different from adults, not different from each other. We are the wrong
kind of "different" to attract them. With our intrests we are "Nerds"
and about as uncool as it's possible to be.

Drusus

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Youth in Nova Roma
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Thu, 24 May 2001 20:51:57 -0400

I think it is safe to say with such a low population of teens in Nova Roma
that the ones who are here do care. Also if a teen is interested in history
and all the other fairly advanced topics Nova Roma covers, chances are he
will have the intelligence to fit in. I think Nova Roma would be a good
place for teens. It can teach them much, and insure a future of our nation.

Though truly, there is probably only dozen or so teens actually in Nova
Roma. There is not much of a need to block these individuals from taking an
active part with those numbers.

One more thing if you allow teens to vote they have a better chance of being
active in Nova Roma thus eliminating the problem of "holding their
interest".

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Civis Canada Orientalis

>
>
> I disagree. It could equally show he/she is doing what adolescents
> do---looking for sensations, and a sense of belonging, or of being
> 'different'. It does not mean they have any lasting or substantial interest.

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Youth in Nova Roma
From:	"A. Cato" <a.cato@-------->
Date:	Thu, 24 May 2001 21:03:35 -0400

Salve Luci Sicini: Perhaps you are correct, my friend. Intelligence, yes of course. Interest in Ancient Roman History, Politics, the Religio, that's great. It shows a admirable desire for knowledge, I agree. My own son, (who has taken the name Tiberius Tullius Cato) is thirteen and averages about 98% in math, very intelligent, and smarter then most kids his age in most subjects. (Alas my other children have much more difficulty but I love them all equally, they are all gems.) However, I don't believe that he has the wisdom that he would have at twenty years of age, a number I only use for example.
What I am saying however is that regardless of how intelligent one is, wisdom is different and only comes with the experience of years. That is one reason why I love conversing with the very elderly. It is the ability to use your experience and knowledge of life itself in order to make sensible decisions and judgments. "...the patience and wisdom that comes from old age." No I don't use this quote to suggest that only the elderly should vote, I am merely using it to illustrate the term.
Am I wrong in my opinion? I suppose there is a possiblity that I am, Luci Sicini. And because of this possiblility, I am of course willing to listen and consider your thoughts on the subject. I respect your opinion, and find your own posts to always be written with great thought.
Ave atque vale, ... Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato, ... Rogator

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Youth in Nova Roma
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Thu, 24 May 2001 18:14:22 -0700

on 5/24/01 5:51 PM, Amulius Claudius Petrus at pkkt@-------- wrote:

> I think it is safe to say with such a low population of teens in Nova Roma
> that the ones who are here do care. Also if a teen is interested in history
> and all the other fairly advanced topics Nova Roma covers, chances are he
> will have the intelligence to fit in. I think Nova Roma would be a good
> place for teens. It can teach them much, and insure a future of our nation.
>
> Though truly, there is probably only dozen or so teens actually in Nova
> Roma. There is not much of a need to block these individuals from taking an
> active part with those numbers.
>
> One more thing if you allow teens to vote they have a better chance of being
> active in Nova Roma thus eliminating the problem of "holding their
> interest".
>
Ave,

But you should always consider hte future. In the future we might have a
large number of teens. We all should think outside the "box."

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Youth in Nova Roma
From:	gcassiusnerva@--------
Date:	Thu, 24 May 2001 21:16:48 EDT

I agree that some teens are abnormally bright and mature for their years.
They are especially gifted. Yet I would not open up the House and Senate to
teens on account of these exeptional few.

Boring nerds? Sometimes, but with all the controversies we have here, we
are really not that boring. {Why do the Apollonii stick around} I wish my
friend Fern were here. She was a board member of the ADF druid's
"mothergrove" for a while, and is still somewhat active in her local grove.
She has been into these alternative religions for years. She tells me of the
very thing I was talking about here. They too are rather bookish, perhaps
dull to many, and definitely nerdy...yet they and similar groups have had
more than enough of the "black lipstick" crowd as she calls them. Teens who
find something they think is "cool" {by their own definition} and start
callingthemselves "pagans", all the while merely rebelling agiainst the
religion of the family. If the family were pagan, they would probably be die
hard Billy Graham supporters. Now here we have the same attraction. We do
get the teens who think somehow that speaking of "the gods" and saying
'Salvete' in their posts will somehow make them Roman. Their actual interest
in what Rome REALLY was and could be would be of little interest to them.

Sorry, I do not see teens as stable enough to entrust with the vote.

Nerva

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Subject:	[novaroma] Macronational relationships
From:	Kristoffer From <kristoffer.from@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 03:34:11 +0200

T. Octavius Pius Quiritibus S.P.D.

This post is mainly to promote my own opinions, and cannot honestly be
claimed to be from an objective point of view, nor in any way
representational for any of the offices which I hold. This is a personal
statement on my behalf only.

I cannot help but notice that several parts of the current Nova Roman
legislation refer to macronational laws. For example, a person is not
eligible for citizenship in Nova Roma before he/she is considered an
adult in his/her macronational country, even though the actual age when
this occurs may differ considerably between different nations. I am
reasonably sure that not many macronations employ this strategy when
issuing laws, and I do not see why we should do so either.

Admittedly, it is an expedient way of dealing with certain problems
which might occur. However, in some way this discriminates some citizens
based on their macronational point of origin. Further, it lends
credibility to the belief that Nova Roma is nothing more than an
internet-based roleplaying society, or an organization of some sort. If
we ever reach the point where we become a true macronation, we will be
forced to alter all legislation based on the premise of a macronational
citizenship providing tools for us to work with.

I suggest, therefore, that no legislation referring to macronational
laws and customs should be passed, and that we therefore develop our own
tools, so that when the day comes for our beloved Res Publica to join
her fellow macronations on the international stage, we are prepared for
that internally.

Simply, that we should think outside the "box", and prepare ourselves
for our eventual confrontation with the outside world.

This post isn't intended to cause any offense. If it has, I apologize.

Valete,

Titus Octavius Pius,
Consiliarius Thules,
Praeco Anarei Thules,
Scriba to the Curator Araneum

AKA Kristoffer From

---

Si hoc signum legere potes,
operis boni in rebus latinis alacribus
et fructuosis potiri potes.

- Not-so-famous quotation

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o-- K- w--- !O M-- V-- PS->$ PE- Y+ PGP- t+@ 5- X-
R+++>$ !tv- b+++>$ DI++++ D+ G e h! !r-->r+++ !x-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Youth in Nova Roma
From:	gcassiusnerva@--------
Date:	Thu, 24 May 2001 21:46:22 EDT

In a message dated 5/24/01 6:19:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
alexious@-------- writes:

> But you should always consider hte future. In the future we might have a
> large number of teens. We all should think outside the "box."
>
>

An excellent point. If NR actually does grow sufficiently in the future,
then NR may well become a family affair, with teens and younger children
seeing it as natural as going to visit relatives on the holidays. We will
not have some small groups of savant teens.

Nerva

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Youth in Nova Roma
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 01:46:24 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, gcassiusnerva@c... wrote:
> I agree that some teens are abnormally bright and mature for
their years.
> They are especially gifted. Yet I would not open up the House and
Senate to
> teens on account of these exeptional few.
>
> Boring nerds? Sometimes, but with all the controversies we have
here, we
> are really not that boring. {Why do the Apollonii stick around} I
wish my
> friend Fern were here. She was a board member of the ADF druid's
> "mothergrove" for a while, and is still somewhat active in her local
grove.
> She has been into these alternative religions for years. She tells
me of the
> very thing I was talking about here. They too are rather bookish,
perhaps
> dull to many, and definitely nerdy...yet they and similar groups
have had
> more than enough of the "black lipstick" crowd as she calls them.
Teens who
> find something they think is "cool" {by their own definition} and start
> callingthemselves "pagans", all the while merely rebelling agiainst the
> religion of the family. If the family were pagan, they would
probably be die
> hard Billy Graham supporters. Now here we have the same
attraction. We do
> get the teens who think somehow that speaking of "the gods" and saying
> 'Salvete' in their posts will somehow make them Roman. Their actual
interest
> in what Rome REALLY was and could be would be of little interest to
them.
>
> Sorry, I do not see teens as stable enough to entrust with the vote.
>
> Nerva

Salve,

Some pagans are "cooler" than others, and attract the goths. The
Celtic Pagans are far more attractive to these rebels than we are, and
Wicca is the "coolest" of them all. Ya wanna rebel, tell Momma yer a
witch! That'll shake her up. But to claim you worship Iupiter? All
you'll get are puzzled looks. Any way if your only reason to join is
to rebel against your parents Christian religion, they are VERY
unlikely to sign permission, and you will have to wait until youre 18,
and can vote anyway. What do we have that's cool? Gladiators are way
cool, but we haven't gotten a group that stages regular combats (AFAIK).

I'm getting a sense of Deja Vu here any way. I heard the same
arguments about letting 18 year olds vote back in the late sixties and
early seventies.

Vale,
Drusus

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Macronational relationships
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 01:55:02 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, Kristoffer From <kristoffer.from@t...> wrote:
> T. Octavius Pius Quiritibus S.P.D.
>
> This post is mainly to promote my own opinions, and cannot honestly be
> claimed to be from an objective point of view, nor in any way
> representational for any of the offices which I hold. This is a personal
> statement on my behalf only.
>
> I cannot help but notice that several parts of the current Nova Roman
> legislation refer to macronational laws. For example, a person is not
> eligible for citizenship in Nova Roma before he/she is considered an
> adult in his/her macronational country, even though the actual age when
> this occurs may differ considerably between different nations. I am
> reasonably sure that not many macronations employ this strategy when
> issuing laws, and I do not see why we should do so either.
>

SNIP

Salve,

I'm not aware of the laws in all Macro Nations, But in the USA we have
COPA, the Child Online Protection Act, and it's illegal under federal
laws to allow a minor to sign up for ANYTHING over the internet
without their parents consent. Given the strength of the conservative
Christians in some areas, and Nova Roma's Pagan side, I can assure you
that an American Jury in these areas would take great pleasure in
destroying us. Until our soverngity is recognized we have no choice on
that law.

Vale,
Drusus

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Macronational relationships
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Thu, 24 May 2001 18:58:41 -0700

Ave,

We need to be very careful here. As Lucius Sicinus and others have pointed
out we are a Not-For-Profit Corporation registered in New Hampshire.
Regardless of any long term goals we have we have to recognize that fact.

At this point..when it comes to macronational relationships we cannot think
outside the box at this juncture. This is due to the precarious
relationship that we have with the United States. And the fact that we have
a serious lack of resources, very little revenue and the fact that our
magistrates do not get paid...thus everything is done essentially in a
voluntary basis.

What we must remember is that we are a nation of 900 citizens, without taxes
and with that without an adequate resource to form a bureaucracy. Without
those resources it is easier for everyone concerned to rely on the resources
we do have. That means relying on the macronational data. Why discard this
excellent resource? I do not see an adequate reason.

And let me add...I think its almost humerous to think of discrimination in
terms of where one lives. One does not have a choice where one is born
into. One lives where one must. To imply discrimination in that is not
going to score points with me. And, I disagree with your assumption. I
think given our limited resources this is the only alternative that we can
feasibly implement immediately. Once we get taxes implemented and a
sustained source of revenue, then we can rethink this.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

on 5/24/01 6:34 PM, Kristoffer From at kristoffer.from@-------- wrote:

> T. Octavius Pius Quiritibus S.P.D.
>
> This post is mainly to promote my own opinions, and cannot honestly be
> claimed to be from an objective point of view, nor in any way
> representational for any of the offices which I hold. This is a personal
> statement on my behalf only.
>
> I cannot help but notice that several parts of the current Nova Roman
> legislation refer to macronational laws. For example, a person is not
> eligible for citizenship in Nova Roma before he/she is considered an
> adult in his/her macronational country, even though the actual age when
> this occurs may differ considerably between different nations. I am
> reasonably sure that not many macronations employ this strategy when
> issuing laws, and I do not see why we should do so either.
>
> Admittedly, it is an expedient way of dealing with certain problems
> which might occur. However, in some way this discriminates some citizens
> based on their macronational point of origin. Further, it lends
> credibility to the belief that Nova Roma is nothing more than an
> internet-based roleplaying society, or an organization of some sort. If
> we ever reach the point where we become a true macronation, we will be
> forced to alter all legislation based on the premise of a macronational
> citizenship providing tools for us to work with.
>
> I suggest, therefore, that no legislation referring to macronational
> laws and customs should be passed, and that we therefore develop our own
> tools, so that when the day comes for our beloved Res Publica to join
> her fellow macronations on the international stage, we are prepared for
> that internally.
>
> Simply, that we should think outside the "box", and prepare ourselves
> for our eventual confrontation with the outside world.
>
> This post isn't intended to cause any offense. If it has, I apologize.
>
> Valete,
>
> Titus Octavius Pius,
> Consiliarius Thules,
> Praeco Anarei Thules,
> Scriba to the Curator Araneum
>
> AKA Kristoffer From
>
> ---
>
> Si hoc signum legere potes,
> operis boni in rebus latinis alacribus
> et fructuosis potiri potes.
>
> - Not-so-famous quotation
>
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> Version: 3.1
> GCS d- s:++> a-- C++>$ ULS++ P+ L++ E- W++(--) N
> o-- K- w--- !O M-- V-- PS->$ PE- Y+ PGP- t+@ 5- X-
> R+++>$ !tv- b+++>$ DI++++ D+ G e h! !r-->r+++ !x-
> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Macronational relationships
From:	Kristoffer From <kristoffer.from@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 04:00:21 +0200

Lucius Sicinius Drusus wrote:
> I'm not aware of the laws in all Macro Nations, But in the USA we have
> COPA, the Child Online Protection Act, and it's illegal under federal
> laws to allow a minor to sign up for ANYTHING over the internet
> without their parents consent. Given the strength of the conservative
> Christians in some areas, and Nova Roma's Pagan side, I can assure you
> that an American Jury in these areas would take great pleasure in
> destroying us. Until our soverngity is recognized we have no choice on
> that law.

Salve, Luci Sicini Druse.

Please note: I didn't express any wish to lower age limits. Neither do I
wish to do so. As I've previously stated on this subject, I'd prefer a
Nova Roman age of majority at, maybe, 21. This wasn't my main reason for
writing the post, however. I used that as an example of the what I was
talking about. Please don't get "stuck" on that detail, there is more
than that to my post.

Vale,

Titus Octavius Pius,
Consiliarius Thules,
Praeco Anarei Thules,
Scriba to the Curator Araneum

AKA Kristoffer From

---

Si hoc signum legere potes,
operis boni in rebus latinis alacribus
et fructuosis potiri potes.

- Not-so-famous quotation

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCS d- s:++> a-- C++>$ ULS++ P+ L++ E- W++(--) N
o-- K- w--- !O M-- V-- PS->$ PE- Y+ PGP- t+@ 5- X-
R+++>$ !tv- b+++>$ DI++++ D+ G e h! !r-->r+++ !x-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Announcement of New Australia Province Mailing Lis t
From:	Mark A Bird <mark_a_bird@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 12:10:54 +1000

Ave Governor

What is your postal address as I am sending you a small gift !!!

It is a surprise.

Marcus Sentius Claudius

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Place [mailto:Danat2000@--------]
Sent: Thursday, 5 April 2001 12:28 Pm
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Announcement of New Australia Province Mailing
Lis t

Salve,

Unsure exactly as there has been a message or two already posted, at a guess
is it possible that it would be due to you needing to log into Yahoogroups
to subscribe to anything. As you are a member of Nova Roma's group you'd
have a Yahoogroup password.....If I'm barking up the wrong tree please let
me know.

BTW I'm from Adelaide.

vale

Marcus Arcadius Pius
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark A Bird
To: 'novaroma@--------'
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 11:48 AM
Subject: RE: [novaroma] Announcement of New Australia Province Mailing Lis
t

Salve Marcus Pius

Thank you for being so pro active, however when I clicked on this it asked
for a password and log in ID - would this be because I did this from my
work
machine which is probably "fire walled" or is this a problem at Nova's end
???"

By the way - where is our new Governor based - i.e. what city ??>>>

Vale

Marcus Sentius Claudius

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Place [mailto:Danat2000@--------]
Sent: Thursday, 5 April 2001 11:06 Am
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: [novaroma] Announcement of New Australia Province Mailing List

Salvete Quirites,

I hereby announce the creation of the mailing list for the Province of
Australia. Australia has never had an official provincial list before and
I
believe that this will help in developing a greater sense of a Nova Roman
community here in Australia, and also New Zealand and other regions of
Oceania.

Anyone, whether living in an Oceanian region or simply interested in what
goes on with the Nova Roman community 'down here', is welcome to join. I
invite anyone interested in joining to subscribe via the lists' homepage
at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Australia

valete

Marcus Arcadius Pius
Propraetor Australia

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Macronational relationships
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 02:18:28 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, Kristoffer From <kristoffer.from@t...> wrote:
> Lucius Sicinius Drusus wrote:
> > I'm not aware of the laws in all Macro Nations, But in the USA we have
> > COPA, the Child Online Protection Act, and it's illegal under federal
> > laws to allow a minor to sign up for ANYTHING over the internet
> > without their parents consent. Given the strength of the conservative
> > Christians in some areas, and Nova Roma's Pagan side, I can assure you
> > that an American Jury in these areas would take great pleasure in
> > destroying us. Until our soverngity is recognized we have no choice on
> > that law.
>
> Salve, Luci Sicini Druse.
>
> Please note: I didn't express any wish to lower age limits. Neither do I
> wish to do so. As I've previously stated on this subject, I'd prefer a
> Nova Roman age of majority at, maybe, 21. This wasn't my main reason for
> writing the post, however. I used that as an example of the what I was
> talking about. Please don't get "stuck" on that detail, there is more
> than that to my post.
>
> Vale,
>
> Titus Octavius Pius,

Salve,

I am very much in favor of purging as many references to Macro
National laws as possible from our system. In doing so we have to be
aware of our dual status as a Micro Nation, and a legal enity under US
and New Hampshire laws. In some cases these references to Macro
national laws are needed so that citizens of Macro Nations other than
the USA aren't affected in a negative way because the US Congress
passed a law that affects Nova Romans who also hold US Citizenship.

Another problem is the laws of two Macro Nations may conflict. Nation
A might say it's illegal to discriminate against anyone over 18
because of thier age, while Nation B might not recognize anyone under
21 as an adult. Passing a law that caters to the law in one of these
nations causes you to be violating the law in the other.

Vale,
L. Sicinius Drusus

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Macronational relationships
From:	Kristoffer From <kristoffer.from@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 04:21:44 +0200

"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" wrote:
> What we must remember is that we are a nation of 900 citizens, without taxes
> and with that without an adequate resource to form a bureaucracy. Without
> those resources it is easier for everyone concerned to rely on the resources
> we do have. That means relying on the macronational data. Why discard this
> excellent resource? I do not see an adequate reason.
>
> And let me add...I think its almost humerous to think of discrimination in
> terms of where one lives. One does not have a choice where one is born
> into. One lives where one must. To imply discrimination in that is not
> going to score points with me. And, I disagree with your assumption. I
> think given our limited resources this is the only alternative that we can
> feasibly implement immediately. Once we get taxes implemented and a
> sustained source of revenue, then we can rethink this.

Salve, Luci Corneli Sulla Felix.

I see no reason whatsoever to discard data from macronations, and this
was not what my posting was about. What I said, and I quote, was: "[in
my opinion] several parts of the current Nova Roman legislation refer to
macronational laws." It's not the usage of macronational data in our
daily work I'm against, but to base our actual laws on those of other
nations. Again, though it's not my main point, I use the age issue as an
example. Let's take the US as an example. What if, in the early stages
of colonization, a law was passed that majority wasn't reached until the
age decided upon by the colonist's country of origin? A poor example,
but then, there aren't many historical precedents for Nova Roma.

And this example, I think, answers your second query as well. Yes, we
live where we were born, or where we've moved. It's a matter of choice,
or of no choice at all. However, we've all chosen to participate in the
building of a nation in which we believe, and should therefore be
treated equally. We are citizens of the world, but here, at least, we
should be Nova Romans, before anything else.

Since I'm not familiar with the limits placed upon us by our lack of
resources, except by hearsay, I will believe your statement in this.
Perhaps I'm a bit premature in breaching the subject, but in my opinion,
it's something we have to deal with, sooner or later.

Vale,

Titus Octavius Pius,
Consiliarius Thules,
Praeco Anarei Thules,
Scriba to the Curator Araneum

AKA Kristoffer From

---

Si hoc signum legere potes,
operis boni in rebus latinis alacribus
et fructuosis potiri potes.

- Not-so-famous quotation

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R+++>$ !tv- b+++>$ DI++++ D+ G e h! !r-->r+++ !x-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] A Strange Pattern
From:	"Oppius Flaccus Severus" <oppiusflaccus@-------->
Date:	Thu, 24 May 2001 19:23:48 -0700

Salvete amice Gai et Omnes;
-----Original Message-----
From: Gnaeus Salix Astur [mailto:salixastur@--------]
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 2:50 PM
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: RE: [novaroma] A Strange Pattern

<snipped>

Oh, I didn't mean that, amice. My proposals are simply that: proposals.
Besides, I am very fond of the Roman principle that states that a new
law must not be retroactive; i.e., it must not affect those who "broke"
it before is applied. As long as I am concerned, your position is out
of question. Besides, I voted for you ;-).

OFS: Gratias multas for the clarification!

>
> My only real comment here is in agreement in accordance
> with the practices in Antiqua. As is my well-known position,
> this should *always* be the *default* whenever possible.
>
> That being said, I fully support the move to have suddenly
> vacated offices appointed by the Senate ***but only in the
> case of the junior magistracies*** as suggested by Senator
> Marcus Octavius. For whatever it's worth (or not,) my vote
> goes in the 'plus' column.

I would like to know if these two paragraphs are mutually exclusive or
not ;-). I pledge our best informed citizens to clarify how these
issues were handled in Roma Antiqua.

OFS: Actually, I was hedging my bets a bit with
the comments above :-) -but I see your point.

As we're always having to make a trade-off or two
in NR, my druthers always go with the traditional
practice. (Which as you stated, would leave
certain positions unfilled for the remainder of
the year.) However, Marcus Octavius' statements and
further clarifications of the idea proposed by
Consul Germanicus would work fine for me too.
So, if it came between the two -I'd personally
vote for the former, but if it were the later
presented against a third or fourth alternative,
then I would choose the latter.

<snipped>

You just need to make the Oath of Office, don't you?
I hope you can do that soon ;-).

OFS: Ah yes, just the oath remains. However, I can't
take the oath until 5/28 in accordance with the Cursus
Honorum so that I assume office on my official six-month
anniversary date. (However, due to my holiday schedule
it may not be until the morning of 5/29.)

Bene valete,
Oppius

<snipped>

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Macronational relationships
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Thu, 24 May 2001 19:31:21 -0700

on 5/24/01 7:21 PM, Kristoffer From at kristoffer.from@-------- wrote:

> "L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" wrote:
>> What we must remember is that we are a nation of 900 citizens, without taxes
>> and with that without an adequate resource to form a bureaucracy. Without
>> those resources it is easier for everyone concerned to rely on the resources
>> we do have. That means relying on the macronational data. Why discard this
>> excellent resource? I do not see an adequate reason.
>>
>> And let me add...I think its almost humerous to think of discrimination in
>> terms of where one lives. One does not have a choice where one is born
>> into. One lives where one must. To imply discrimination in that is not
>> going to score points with me. And, I disagree with your assumption. I
>> think given our limited resources this is the only alternative that we can
>> feasibly implement immediately. Once we get taxes implemented and a
>> sustained source of revenue, then we can rethink this.
>
> Salve, Luci Corneli Sulla Felix.
>
> I see no reason whatsoever to discard data from macronations, and this
> was not what my posting was about. What I said, and I quote, was: "[in
> my opinion] several parts of the current Nova Roman legislation refer to
> macronational laws." It's not the usage of macronational data in our
> daily work I'm against, but to base our actual laws on those of other
> nations. Again, though it's not my main point, I use the age issue as an
> example. Let's take the US as an example. What if, in the early stages
> of colonization, a law was passed that majority wasn't reached until the
> age decided upon by the colonist's country of origin? A poor example,
> but then, there aren't many historical precedents for Nova Roma.

Well let me answer this...currently the law states that one can vote when
they are sui iuries (I believe this is correct) in the macronation of
residence. To me, this means that the burden of proof lies with the
individual who is seeking to enforce this provision. IE, that individual
would need to supply evidence that where he/she lives he is considered an
adult...that information would need to be mailed to the Censors so we can
confirm that data. I know that Consul Germancius was working on revising
this, but as it stands that is how it is. I am getting this information
from II.A. and II.B of the Nova Roman Constitution.

> And this example, I think, answers your second query as well. Yes, we
> live where we were born, or where we've moved. It's a matter of choice,
> or of no choice at all. However, we've all chosen to participate in the
> building of a nation in which we believe, and should therefore be
> treated equally. We are citizens of the world, but here, at least, we
> should be Nova Romans, before anything else.

We are treated equally when we become citizens of Nova Roma. We all have
our rights guaranteed under Article II of the Constitution of Nova Roma. I
do not see you point here.

> Since I'm not familiar with the limits placed upon us by our lack of
> resources, except by hearsay, I will believe your statement in this.
> Perhaps I'm a bit premature in breaching the subject, but in my opinion,
> it's something we have to deal with, sooner or later.

Oh yes, please take my word for it...in macronations they have employees who
get paid to do administrative work...Regardless of the country. In Nova
Roma that work is being done by volunteers. Granted I agree one day we will
need to discuss this..but in my honest opinion it is premature.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

> Vale,
>
> Titus Octavius Pius,
> Consiliarius Thules,
> Praeco Anarei Thules,
> Scriba to the Curator Araneum
>
> AKA Kristoffer From
>
> ---
>
> Si hoc signum legere potes,
> operis boni in rebus latinis alacribus
> et fructuosis potiri potes.
>
> - Not-so-famous quotation
>
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> Version: 3.1
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> o-- K- w--- !O M-- V-- PS->$ PE- Y+ PGP- t+@ 5- X-
> R+++>$ !tv- b+++>$ DI++++ D+ G e h! !r-->r+++ !x-
> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
>
>
>
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>
>

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Subject:	[novaroma] Digest No 1423 Favorite Roman Books
From:	"Lucius Equitius" <vze23hw7@-------->
Date:	Thu, 24 May 2001 22:37:11 -0400

Salvete, Quirites

Message: 21
Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 10:09:07 EDT
From: gcassiusnerva@--------
Subject: Your Favorite Roman Books

If you had to pick 5 or 10 favorite books by ancient Roman authors to take
to
the deserted island where you would be stranded, which would they be?

L Equitius: So sorry, but the 'Loebs' are small enough to carry a few more,
so for me they'd be...

* Virgil - "Aeneid" (which include the other works :-)
* Ovid - "Fasti", "Metamorphoses", "Triste Ex Ponto"
* Columella - "De Agricultura"
* Cicero - "De Natura Deorum", "De Divinatione", "De Legibus"
* Vitruvius - "De Architectura" (I know this may seem 'dry' but I also enjoy
Frontinus "De Aquis Urbis Romae"
* Marcus Aurelius - "Meditations" (of course this were written in Greek,
does that count?)
* Lucretius - "De Rerum Naturae"
* Livius - "Ab Urbe Condita"
* Apuleius - "Metamorphoses"
* Caesar - "De Bello Gallico"

Sic omnibus boman noctem volo

Valete, Lucius Equitius

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Macronational relationships
From:	Kristoffer From <kristoffer.from@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 04:35:56 +0200

Lucius Sicinius Drusus wrote:
> Another problem is the laws of two Macro Nations may conflict. Nation
> A might say it's illegal to discriminate against anyone over 18
> because of thier age, while Nation B might not recognize anyone under
> 21 as an adult. Passing a law that caters to the law in one of these
> nations causes you to be violating the law in the other.

Salve, Luci Sicini Druse.

Once again, the age issue wasn't the main one. Glad I've gotten your
approval of the main theme, though. That was all I was hoping for. Once
we've got a common goal, however far-fetched, we can start discussing
ways in which to reach it. That is, after all, what Nova Roma is all
about.

I'm not sure about this, it's just a belief of mine, but I doubt there
are any laws against adults being discriminated as "too young"...unless
we're talking employment...as when applying for a job in an
organization...such as Nova Roma happens to be, currently...I think I
see your point. This specific issue might be a bit premature. Before we
can make our own statements in some issues, we must "get rid" of any
liabilities they might cause. In this example, we cannot state our own
age of maturity before we drop our status as a US organization.

So, that's where we'll aim. If we agree that a common age of majority
would be desirable, we'll strive to reach a point where we aren't an
organization, or at least where the part of Nova Roma where we'd like
the age to matter, so that the temporal part of the organization isn't
affected by this. I can't think of any way in which this could be done,
and it may in fact be impossible, currently. But just because a thing
seems beyond our reach, is no reason not to attempt it.

Vale,

Titus Octavius Pius,
Consiliarius Thules,
Praeco Anarei Thules,
Scriba to the Curator Araneum

AKA Kristoffer From

---

Si hoc signum legere potes,
operis boni in rebus latinis alacribus
et fructuosis potiri potes.

- Not-so-famous quotation

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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o-- K- w--- !O M-- V-- PS->$ PE- Y+ PGP- t+@ 5- X-
R+++>$ !tv- b+++>$ DI++++ D+ G e h! !r-->r+++ !x-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

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Subject:	[novaroma] Coming soon in Gladiator
From:	gcassiusnerva@--------
Date:	Thu, 24 May 2001 22:45:10 EDT

Coming up in chapter 5---Cassius arrives in Rome only to be surprised by his
wife, while Oppius Flaccus is bought as a Gladiator by Quintus Fabius.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Macronational relationships
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 02:46:46 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, Kristoffer From <kristoffer.from@t...> wrote:
> Lucius Sicinius Drusus wrote:
> > Another problem is the laws of two Macro Nations may conflict. Nation
> > A might say it's illegal to discriminate against anyone over 18
> > because of thier age, while Nation B might not recognize anyone under
> > 21 as an adult. Passing a law that caters to the law in one of these
> > nations causes you to be violating the law in the other.
>
> Salve, Luci Sicini Druse.
>
> Once again, the age issue wasn't the main one. Glad I've gotten your
> approval of the main theme, though. That was all I was hoping for. Once
> we've got a common goal, however far-fetched, we can start discussing
> ways in which to reach it. That is, after all, what Nova Roma is all
> about.
>
> I'm not sure about this, it's just a belief of mine, but I doubt there
> are any laws against adults being discriminated as "too young"...unless
> we're talking employment...as when applying for a job in an
> organization...such as Nova Roma happens to be, currently...I think I
> see your point. This specific issue might be a bit premature. Before we
> can make our own statements in some issues, we must "get rid" of any
> liabilities they might cause. In this example, we cannot state our own
> age of maturity before we drop our status as a US organization.
>
snip

Salve,

I only used age as an example, there are areas where Macro National
laws could conflict, and age isn't the only one. In the short term we
just have to consider ourselves "occupied" by these Macro Nations. We
may not care for their laws, but the do have the power to compell us
to obey them.

Drusus

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Macronational relationships
From:	Kristoffer From <kristoffer.from@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 04:53:04 +0200

"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" wrote:
> We are treated equally when we become citizens of Nova Roma. We all have
> our rights guaranteed under Article II of the Constitution of Nova Roma. I
> do not see you point here.
>
> Oh yes, please take my word for it...in macronations they have employees who
> get paid to do administrative work...Regardless of the country. In Nova
> Roma that work is being done by volunteers. Granted I agree one day we will
> need to discuss this..but in my honest opinion it is premature.

Salve, Luci Corneli Sulla Felix

In one way, we're all treated equally. For instance, the age question.
We're all considered adults, as soon as we're considered such by our
macronational point of origin. This may cause citizens to have different
rights regarding voting, based on where they live. This means that the
right to vote means different things to different citizens. In effect,
the constitution is violating itself...;)

I'm glad that we agree that this is a subject that needs to be
discussed, sooner or later, and that we therefore share a common goal.
As I said in my post to Lucius Sicinius Drusus, that is what Nova Roma
is all about. People from different backgrounds, different cultures,
with one common interest, and one common goal: The rebirth of Rome, in
the shape of our beloved Res Publica. Your have my deep and sincere
gratitude for the tireless effort towards this goal you have performed
in various offices, and I hope that we both will see the day when my
idle musings have become a reality, and the dream that is Nova Roma have
become reality.

Look at me, I should have been a demagogue. Such flowery speech. Ah
well, I don't have the heart to cut it out. Free flow of mind, and all.
Meant it, though.

Vale,

Titus Octavius Pius,
Consiliarius Thules,
Praeco Anarei Thules,
Scriba to the Curator Araneum

AKA Kristoffer From

---

Si hoc signum legere potes,
operis boni in rebus latinis alacribus
et fructuosis potiri potes.

- Not-so-famous quotation

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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o-- K- w--- !O M-- V-- PS->$ PE- Y+ PGP- t+@ 5- X-
R+++>$ !tv- b+++>$ DI++++ D+ G e h! !r-->r+++ !x-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Macronational relationships
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Thu, 24 May 2001 20:04:06 -0700

on 5/24/01 7:53 PM, Kristoffer From at kristoffer.from@-------- wrote:

> "L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" wrote:
>> We are treated equally when we become citizens of Nova Roma. We all have
>> our rights guaranteed under Article II of the Constitution of Nova Roma. I
>> do not see you point here.
>>
>> Oh yes, please take my word for it...in macronations they have employees who
>> get paid to do administrative work...Regardless of the country. In Nova
>> Roma that work is being done by volunteers. Granted I agree one day we will
>> need to discuss this..but in my honest opinion it is premature.
>
> Salve, Luci Corneli Sulla Felix
>
> In one way, we're all treated equally. For instance, the age question.
> We're all considered adults, as soon as we're considered such by our
> macronational point of origin. This may cause citizens to have different
> rights regarding voting, based on where they live. This means that the
> right to vote means different things to different citizens. In effect,
> the constitution is violating itself...;)

Actually no..the Constitution is not violating itself. Anyone can be
admitted in a Gens...upon the approval of the Pater/Materfamilias. That
does not necessarily make them a citizen of Nova Roma. That does not happen
til one is in compliance with II.A of the Constitution. I have underaged
people in my Gens, and I make it perfectly known to them that they do not
have all of the rights as citizens until they reach that point. I think
this is something Paters/Maters should be more active in....but that is for
another discussion. We, the Censors, do not need to keep any records of any
person until they reach the age where they are sui iuries. They do not have
a voter code, a placement in tribes and centuries nor accure century points.
They are, for lack of a better word, active lurkers. (Do not be offended
with this...it is not my intention.) Once one is officially a citizen of
Nova Roma, we are all treated equally, I have stated to a number of people
in Nova Roma, I do not consider myself anymore important than anyone else.
We are all equal, and we all have potential...it is up to each of us to act
and utilize that potential for the good of Nova Roma.

> I'm glad that we agree that this is a subject that needs to be
> discussed, sooner or later, and that we therefore share a common goal.
> As I said in my post to Lucius Sicinius Drusus, that is what Nova Roma
> is all about. People from different backgrounds, different cultures,
> with one common interest, and one common goal: The rebirth of Rome, in
> the shape of our beloved Res Publica. Your have my deep and sincere
> gratitude for the tireless effort towards this goal you have performed
> in various offices, and I hope that we both will see the day when my
> idle musings have become a reality, and the dream that is Nova Roma have
> become reality.

Yes, in time....especially once we get land..this will seriously need to be
discussed....when we are finally able to announce our independence from our
status within the United States. I just do not think that will happen
now....hopefully it will happen in my lifetime...if it does...WONDERFUL..if
it doesnt, then we must be sure that we lay the proper foundation for our
children to take up the task and accomplish our dreams.

Thank you for your compliments, it is very appreciated.

> Look at me, I should have been a demagogue. Such flowery speech. Ah
> well, I don't have the heart to cut it out. Free flow of mind, and all.
> Meant it, though.

Oh Please..we have enough demagogues in Nova Roma.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

> Vale,
>
> Titus Octavius Pius,
> Consiliarius Thules,
> Praeco Anarei Thules,
> Scriba to the Curator Araneum
>
> AKA Kristoffer From
>
> ---
>
> Si hoc signum legere potes,
> operis boni in rebus latinis alacribus
> et fructuosis potiri potes.
>
> - Not-so-famous quotation
>
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> Version: 3.1
> GCS d- s:++> a-- C++>$ ULS++ P+ L++ E- W++(--) N
> o-- K- w--- !O M-- V-- PS->$ PE- Y+ PGP- t+@ 5- X-
> R+++>$ !tv- b+++>$ DI++++ D+ G e h! !r-->r+++ !x-
> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Youth in Nova Roma
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Thu, 24 May 2001 21:30:49 -0400

The whole problem around teens seems to be the fear that they cannot make
appropriate decisions, or that they don't truly care about what we stand
for. I propose a test. This test could be made up by the common people and
approved by the senate. This would screen the younger people trying to be
approved citizens of Nova Roma. If they pass this test they could be cleared
to become active in our government.

If we could create a proper test I see no reason why this cannot take place.
It seems to be fair to me. I would love to get some input on this idea.

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Civis Canada Orientalis

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Macronational relationships
From:	Kristoffer From <kristoffer.from@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 05:19:39 +0200

"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" wrote:
> Yes, in time....especially once we get land..this will seriously need to be
> discussed....when we are finally able to announce our independence from our
> status within the United States. I just do not think that will happen
> now....hopefully it will happen in my lifetime...if it does...WONDERFUL..if
> it doesnt, then we must be sure that we lay the proper foundation for our
> children to take up the task and accomplish our dreams.

Salve, Luci Corneli Sulla Felix.

First, that I'm responding in this volume on an issue, which I haven't
before, is due to two reasons. One, that I've recently gotten a steady
connection to the internet, (Yey me! Check out thule.novaroma.org for
the provincial webpage hosted on my P100 downstairs) and two, I've got
an assignment for school I should be working on. I acknowledge this
fact, but this is just so much more interesting.

I'll not press the age issue, though I somewhat disagree with your
reason for doing so. As Lucius Sicinius Drusus led me to realize, we
must carefully choose in which order we should cut our macronational
ties, and the age issue probably isn't where to start.

However, I feel as though we've come to an agreement. Since you're more
familiar with our current situation in Nova Roma, I'll rest my case
until a more appropriate time. My main reason behind these postings was,
after all, to increase the awareness of what we are, and what we
(hopefully) will become. As a friend of mine says; "Aim for the stars,
and you might reach the treetops." We have common goals, and therefore,
as long as we keep that eventual destination firmly in mind, we might
arrive at a place which is sufficiently close to what we originally
intended.

Vale,

Titus Octavius Pius,
Consiliarius Thules,
Praeco Anarei Thules,
Scriba to the Curator Araneum

AKA Kristoffer From

---

Si hoc signum legere potes,
operis boni in rebus latinis alacribus
et fructuosis potiri potes.

- Not-so-famous quotation

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o-- K- w--- !O M-- V-- PS->$ PE- Y+ PGP- t+@ 5- X-
R+++>$ !tv- b+++>$ DI++++ D+ G e h! !r-->r+++ !x-
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Macronational relationships
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Thu, 24 May 2001 20:35:41 -0700

on 5/24/01 8:19 PM, Kristoffer From at kristoffer.from@-------- wrote:

> "L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" wrote:
>> Yes, in time....especially once we get land..this will seriously need to be
>> discussed....when we are finally able to announce our independence from our
>> status within the United States. I just do not think that will happen
>> now....hopefully it will happen in my lifetime...if it does...WONDERFUL..if
>> it doesnt, then we must be sure that we lay the proper foundation for our
>> children to take up the task and accomplish our dreams.
>
>
> Salve, Luci Corneli Sulla Felix.
>
> First, that I'm responding in this volume on an issue, which I haven't
> before, is due to two reasons. One, that I've recently gotten a steady
> connection to the internet, (Yey me! Check out thule.novaroma.org for
> the provincial webpage hosted on my P100 downstairs) and two, I've got
> an assignment for school I should be working on. I acknowledge this
> fact, but this is just so much more interesting.
>
> I'll not press the age issue, though I somewhat disagree with your
> reason for doing so. As Lucius Sicinius Drusus led me to realize, we
> must carefully choose in which order we should cut our macronational
> ties, and the age issue probably isn't where to start.
>
> However, I feel as though we've come to an agreement. Since you're more
> familiar with our current situation in Nova Roma, I'll rest my case
> until a more appropriate time. My main reason behind these postings was,
> after all, to increase the awareness of what we are, and what we
> (hopefully) will become. As a friend of mine says; "Aim for the stars,
> and you might reach the treetops." We have common goals, and therefore,
> as long as we keep that eventual destination firmly in mind, we might
> arrive at a place which is sufficiently close to what we originally
> intended.

Yeah I remember back in 98, (G-d I sound like an old man), when there was a
list called the Roman Back Alley list...when it was at one time monitored by
the FBI becuase of some comments that were made....OH the memories of bygone
times...I am sure Atia remembers.....Dont you?

Its nice to take trips down memorylane sometimes....

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Youth in Nova Roma
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 03:49:02 -0000

Salvete Quirites,

I know that some of you were shocked by the idea of letting 16 year
olds vote but there are a few things to remember.

First a reminder of the proposal. We follow Roman tradition and allow
those who are 17 or will turn 17 in a given year to assume thier adult
status on March 17.

First of all, if you are really worried about immature youths voting
there is a safegaurd that can be added. The Consent of the
Paterfamilis. Allthiugh most youths assumed the status of adults in
the year they turned 17 the Paterfamilis could postpone this if he
felt the youth wasn't ready. In a famous example Tiberius didn't allow
Giaus (Caligula) to assume adult status untill he was 19. We could
easily make the assumption of adult status during the 17th year
dependant on the permision of the Pater.

Next remember that if we were following this custom, many of these
youths would have allready turned 17 before March 17. By now allmost
half of them would be 17, the rest at least 16 1/2.

>From an earlier thread we may be having fewer elections, as there is
some talk of having the Senate apoint people when many of the lesser
offices become vacant.

The most important elections won't occur until mid December. At that
time allmost all of these citizens will be 17. The youngest born on
December 31 will just be about 2 weeks shy of thier 17th birthday,
while the oldest, born on January 1 will be just short of turning 18,
and able to vote anyway. On average these citizens will be 17 1/2 when
the December elections are held.

Also bear in mind that the younger the voter is, the less likely they
are to vote.

Valete,
L. Sicinius Drusus

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Youth in Nova Roma
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Thu, 24 May 2001 20:58:16 -0700

Ave,

If we had more active Paters/Maters I would endorse this proposal. However,
since the Censors promulgated the edict about closing Gentes when
Paters/Maters do not respond...over 80 gentes have been closed. Only 4 of
those 80 have been reopened. The closing of Gentes is still an ongoing
issue that will not likely be resolved soon. Given this fact, I do not
think this check will be effective.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

on 5/24/01 8:49 PM, Lucius Sicinius Drusus at lsicinius@-------- wrote:

> Salvete Quirites,
>
> I know that some of you were shocked by the idea of letting 16 year
> olds vote but there are a few things to remember.
>
> First a reminder of the proposal. We follow Roman tradition and allow
> those who are 17 or will turn 17 in a given year to assume thier adult
> status on March 17.
>
> First of all, if you are really worried about immature youths voting
> there is a safegaurd that can be added. The Consent of the
> Paterfamilis. Allthiugh most youths assumed the status of adults in
> the year they turned 17 the Paterfamilis could postpone this if he
> felt the youth wasn't ready. In a famous example Tiberius didn't allow
> Giaus (Caligula) to assume adult status untill he was 19. We could
> easily make the assumption of adult status during the 17th year
> dependant on the permision of the Pater.
>
> Next remember that if we were following this custom, many of these
> youths would have allready turned 17 before March 17. By now allmost
> half of them would be 17, the rest at least 16 1/2.
>
> From an earlier thread we may be having fewer elections, as there is
> some talk of having the Senate apoint people when many of the lesser
> offices become vacant.
>
> The most important elections won't occur until mid December. At that
> time allmost all of these citizens will be 17. The youngest born on
> December 31 will just be about 2 weeks shy of thier 17th birthday,
> while the oldest, born on January 1 will be just short of turning 18,
> and able to vote anyway. On average these citizens will be 17 1/2 when
> the December elections are held.
>
> Also bear in mind that the younger the voter is, the less likely they
> are to vote.
>
> Valete,
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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Subject:	[novaroma] GLADIATOR--The NR Version, chap 5
From:	gcassiusnerva@--------
Date:	Thu, 24 May 2001 23:59:56 EDT

Chapter 5 The Slave

For several days, Oppius Flaccus had hovered between life and death.
His sheer exhaustion and an infection of his wounded arm had combined to
leave him in a state divided between bouts sleep on the one hand, and periods
of delerium on the other. It was the sensation of movement which had caused
him finally to wake up with sound mind restored. He awoke to find himself in
a caged wagon, with a big friendly looking black face staring down at him!
"I told you they would heal your arm", the owner of the face said in a very
deep bass voice, "but you were not able to understand me then." Flaccus'
eyes were pained by the brightness of the sun overhead, and squinting up at
the face, he asked, "Who are you?"
"My name is Tuba", the stranger answered. Tuba was a token black sidekick
borrowed from earlier movies such as 'Demetrius and the Gladiators',
'Spartacus', and 'Gladiator', and now found himself added to the current tale
to head off complaints from the NAACP about a lack of decent roles for black
actors. Flaccus noticed that his arm had been treated and bandaged. "Where
are we?", he asked next. But before Tuba could answer, a man riding a horse
appeared next to the wagon. From his appearance, a Roman. "Ah!", the man
exclaimed when he saw Flaccus, "you are awake! You seem to be doing much
better now. You had us quite worried for a time!" Flaccus was still
somewhat out-of-sorts, with these strangers present, and not knowing just
where they were. The man sensed this, and introduced himself. "I am
Sinicius Drusus. This is my wagon you are riding in. We found you several
days ago at the burnt out farmhouse. We thought at first that you were dead.
Actually, you would have been, but, I summoned a physician and he seems to
have prevented that eventuality."
"For which I am in your debt, sir!", Flaccus responded. "Only, I have lost
everything I had in the destruction of my home. It saddens me to say this,
but I am afraid I will not be able to repay you for your expense."
Sinicius smiled and shrugged off the concern with a wave of his hand. "Oh,
do not trouble yourself about that! I incurred no financial loss in your
treatment. I took the liberty of selling you as a slave!" With this
revelation, Flaccus' eyes bulged. "You WHAT?!?!?"
"Yes! You are on your way to Dyrrachium, where you will board ship and serve
as a galley slave while en route to Zucchabar, in Mauretania. I have a
friend there, Quintus Fabius, who supplies gladiators for high-born
entertainments. You will be one of his gladiators!"
"I DON'T *%^$#$%$ BELIEVE THIS!", Flaccus yelled indignantly.
The man ignored the outburst. "Well, I must away and see what the wife has
for supper. Pleasant journey! Good luck in the arena!"
"COME BACK HERE YOU *^&$^%#%#& SO I CAN &*^%#$(*#& RIP YOUR *#$@%#^#&^%@ OFF!"

Rome, the Eternal City, was today garlanded and bedecked as a bride
awaiting her bridegroom. The people thronged the streets and the Forum
Romanum, to catch a glimpse of their new Emperor, Marcus Cassius Julianus,
and his new wife, Patricia, who had just been awarded the title 'Augusta'.
There was some dissapointment however, that Patricia was not there in the
triumphal procession. She had said she had a head ache and would enter the
city later that day. But the procession was a smash all the same. First
came the children, strewing flowers in the road. And then, the floats
displaying the trophies won in the German war. An effigy of the dead
emperor, Marcus Cassius Aurelius, was carried along with a laurel crown on
it's head. And finally, leading in the captives and hostages, was the new
Emperor! He was resplendent in his purple robes and armor as he rode in his
triumphal chariot. Behind him stood his relative, Gaius Cassius Nerva, who
held a coronet over his head and who was being an imperial pest. "Remember
you are only a man!", he intoned solemnly, and Cassius would turn and glare
at him. Then he would go back to waving to the people. In the front, some
exquisitly lovely young ladies blew kisses at the emperor and threw roses at
him. Cassius was just so cool! "Remember, you are only a man!", Nerva said
again.
"Nerva, I think I heard you the first time. Now give it a rest!"
The procession passed the Temple of Vesta, where the Vestalis Maxima
Lucilla Cornelia Prima stood with her charges, watching the parade. It
passed under the Arch of Augustus, then turned right at the Temple of the
Deified Julius. Making a left up the Via Sacra, it passed the Equestrian
Statue of Marcus Cassius Aurelius, and Cassius felt a moment of discomfort at
the sight.
"Remember, you are only a man!", Nerva reminded. Up ahead on the left was
the Lacus Curtius, also known as 'the wishing well', and Cassius wondered if
it would be possible to dump Nerva into it. Ludicrous, he thought. So many
witnesses! Finally, the parade made a left and passed by the Tabularium,
and from there Cassius sped up the path which led to the Temple of Jupiter
Optimus Maximus high on the Capitoline Hill. Once the chariot had reached
the top, Cassius turned to face the masses of people below in the forum, and
he held up both hands in triumph. The roar of the crowd was deafening!
Cassius beamed with pride. It was HIS day, his day at last!

Or, so he thought.

Suddenly, the crowd shifted, turning to their right. From below there was
the distant muffled sound of drums and horns. Cassius was plainly irritated.
Something was happening, and it was not centered on him! Both he and Nerva
peered down into the Forum, but whatever it was that had stolen the audience
had not appeared yet. Then, the crowd gave a great cheer, and parted to two
sides along the road, clearing a path for whatever it was that was
approaching. The drums were louder now, and it was then that Cassius saw two
columns of laborers enter the forum in about fifteen groups of three men
abreast. They were pulling something extremely large. "Wow!", exclaimed
Nerva as they then beheld an awesome sight. Patricia was there, riding giant
gold sphinx into the Forum. The great beast was dazzling to behold in the
bright sun. It sat about fifty feet high from bottom to the top of it's
head, and on it's rear could be seen a large orange triangle with a sign that
read, 'CAUTION! SLOW MOVING VEHICLE. MAKES WIDE TURNS.'
"I don't freakin' believe it!" Cassius cried. "She is stealing my show!"
Then he just stood there with his mouth hanging open in incredulity.
"Remember you are only a man!"
"Oh, shut up Nerva!"
When Patricia looked up towards the hill and saw her husband watching, she
waved and hurried up to meet him! "Cassius! I'm so sorry I couldn't make
your procession! How did it go?"
"Where on earth did you get that thing?", he asked in reply.
"Oh, the sphinx? It was in a warehouse. Cleopatra used it when she came to
Rome!"
"Oh! That changes everything! Cleopatra used it, and so my wife has to use
it to steal my show! Nerva, I have to go perform a sacrfice in the temple.
You stay and bother HER a while, will you?" When Cassius had left, Nerva
turned to Patricia. "Remember, you are only a woman", he said. And Patricia
balled up her fist and bopped him one.

Following the procession and the sacrifice in Jupiter's temple, Cassius,
accompanied by Patricia, retired to their palace, where a delegation of
senators was waiting to greet them. The pleasantries were exchanged, and
Cassius took his seat. This was not an official senate meeting, so Patricia,
despite being a woman, was allowed to be present. The wild looking,
fanatical Senator Formosanus rose to present Cassius with a document. "For
you're guidance, Caesar, I have prepared a list of protocols to assist you in
setting proper policy for the nation!" Cassius looked bored, but he took the
document anyway, and unrolled it. "Did you now?" he asked, annoyed. "Well
then, let's hae a look at this then." He scanned the document, his eyes
expressing such a combination of bewilderment and affront. "What the hell
his this? 'Workers of the world unite; You have nothing to lose but your
chains'???" Cassius looked up from the paper in astonishment. "What IS this
crap?"
"It is the Amici Dignitatis Statement, sire!", Formosanus answered boldly.
"A blueprint for our ideal dream state".
"Looks like a nightmare state to me", Cassius said, icily. "Now, what other
garbage does this thing promote? Hmmm...the abolition of money?"
Formosanus said nothing.
"The end of private property?!?" Cassius was aghast. But Formosanus still
said nothing, thogh he nervously shifted from one foot to the other.
"A unilateral disarmament treaty with Parthia???", Cassius gasped. . And
then Cassius had the last straw: "The re-organization of the Roman Empire as
a utopian, propertyless, classless state-based commune to be called The
European Union?!?!?!?!?!"
With that, there was a roar from the other senators, and Formosanus was
forced to run out of the house for his life.
When he arrived outside, he met his new devoted and brainwashed
follower.....Puellarius! "I have just presented a copy of our manifesto to
the emperor. There is no way that imperialist will give us what we want. We
must now raise some money. Do you have your passage for Africa?"
"Yes, Evil Master!", the boy answered in reverence and awe.
"Good! Go to Africa and sell the livestock assigned to you, and then report
back to me here with all the money' We will have to finance this revolution
ourselves! Go!"
"At once, Evil Master!"

This story will eventually continue in chapter 6

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Youth in Nova Roma
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 04:12:45 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@e...> wrote:
> Ave,
>
> If we had more active Paters/Maters I would endorse this proposal.
However,
> since the Censors promulgated the edict about closing Gentes when
> Paters/Maters do not respond...over 80 gentes have been closed.
Only 4 of
> those 80 have been reopened. The closing of Gentes is still an ongoing
> issue that will not likely be resolved soon. Given this fact, I do not
> think this check will be effective.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>

Ave Luci Corneli,

But the inactive Paters would cut down on the number of youths who had
permission to assume the duties of adulthood during thier 17th year.
An inactive Pater would give no respose when permision was asked. Only
an active Pater could give permision to assume adulthood during the
sevententh year. The Citizens who were unfortunate enough to be in a
Gens with an inactive Pater wouldn't be able to assume adulthood until
the next year.

Vale,
Drusus

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Youth in Nova Roma
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Thu, 24 May 2001 21:20:11 -0700

on 5/24/01 9:12 PM, Lucius Sicinius Drusus at lsicinius@-------- wrote:

> --- In novaroma@--------, "L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@e...> wrote:
>> Ave,
>>
>> If we had more active Paters/Maters I would endorse this proposal.
> However,
>> since the Censors promulgated the edict about closing Gentes when
>> Paters/Maters do not respond...over 80 gentes have been closed.
> Only 4 of
>> those 80 have been reopened. The closing of Gentes is still an ongoing
>> issue that will not likely be resolved soon. Given this fact, I do not
>> think this check will be effective.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>>
>> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>>
>
> Ave Luci Corneli,
>
> But the inactive Paters would cut down on the number of youths who had
> permission to assume the duties of adulthood during thier 17th year.
> An inactive Pater would give no respose when permision was asked. Only
> an active Pater could give permision to assume adulthood during the
> sevententh year. The Citizens who were unfortunate enough to be in a
> Gens with an inactive Pater wouldn't be able to assume adulthood until
> the next year.

Ave,

Well, to a point. Regardless, according to the Constitution of Nova Roma
now...this is not even an issue. There are no citizens of Nova Roma who are
under 18, unless they are sui iuris. And, I havent gotten any documentation
from any underaged citizen requesting an early exemption from that fact. If
the Constitution is changed...we will then need to take all of this into
consideration.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Youth in Nova Roma
From:	"A. Cato" <a.cato@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 00:29:58 -0400

Salve Luci Sicini: Your proposal is starting to sound pretty good to me. It definately is worth looking at. Perhaps it could be the basis of a good compromise on the issue. I will see what the list has to say when I check my E-mail tomorrow, but for now goodnight. I wish you all a good evening and a great tomorrow. Ave atque vale, ... A. Cato, ... Rogator

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Youth in Nova Roma
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 04:49:58 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@e...> wrote:

Snip
>
> Ave,
>
> Well, to a point. Regardless, according to the Constitution of Nova
Roma
> now...this is not even an issue. There are no citizens of Nova Roma
who are
> under 18, unless they are sui iuris. And, I havent gotten any
documentation
> from any underaged citizen requesting an early exemption from that
fact. If
> the Constitution is changed...we will then need to take all of this into
> consideration.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

Ave,

That Change may be comming. Earlier this Year Our Senior Consul was
talking about amending the Constitution to allow People under 18 to
become citizens, and he did mention the need to set a voting age once
the Constitution was amended.

So If the Constitution is amended, I propose this, in accord with
Roman tradition.

All Citizens who will turn 17 during a given year may assume the
duties of adulthood, with the Permission of thier Pater/Mater on the
17th day of March. Citizens who do not have this permission may assume
the duties of adulthood on March 17 of the year they will turn 18,
again with the permission of the Pater/Mater. Those who fail to get
this Permission would assume the status of an adult on their 18th
Birthday.

The assumption of Adult status includes the duty to pay taxes or
suffer the penalities of the recently passed Lex.

And for those pesky Macro National problems,
Citizens who are not Sui Iuris in thier Macro Nation would also need
the permission of thier Macro National Parent to assume Adult Status
in Nova Roma.

Vale,
L. Sicinius Drusus

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] macro-relations
From:	exitil@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 00:51:19 EDT

In a message dated 5/24/01 9:33:35 PM Central Daylight Time,
kristoffer.from@-------- writes:

> "L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" wrote:
> > What we must remember is that we are a nation of 900 citizens

Yes, on paper, but do even half of them actively participate?

> > without taxes

I agree we need taxes, but we should do something with those taxes directly
toward the creation of an independent Roman state - perhaps I've missed the
past few emails about it, but wasnt there a call for a budget to be posted
before approving taxes? Is there some way to mark important messages such as
this so people who dont want to look through twenty emails a day can see
them? As for the independent Roman state - with 900 people * $20, there
should be some way of getting land or starting up a state business to gain
further income. It may not be *that* much money but it's something... I'm
sure there are options.

> I see no reason whatsoever to discard data from macronations, and this
> was not what my posting was about. What I said, and I quote, was: "[in
> my opinion] several parts of the current Nova Roman legislation refer to
> macronational laws." It's not the usage of macronational data in our
> daily work I'm against, but to base our actual laws on those of other
> nations. Again, though it's not my main point, I use the age issue as an
> example. Let's take the US as an example. What if, in the early stages
> of colonization, a law was passed that majority wasn't reached until the
> age decided upon by the colonist's country of origin? A poor example,
> but then, there aren't many historical precedents for Nova Roma.
>
> And this example, I think, answers your second query as well. Yes, we
> live where we were born, or where we've moved. It's a matter of choice,
> or of no choice at all. However, we've all chosen to participate in the
> building of a nation in which we believe, and should therefore be
> treated equally. We are citizens of the world, but here, at least, we
> should be Nova Romans, before anything else.
>
> Since I'm not familiar with the limits placed upon us by our lack of
> resources, except by hearsay, I will believe your statement in this.
> Perhaps I'm a bit premature in breaching the subject, but in my opinion,
> it's something we have to deal with, sooner or later.

I agree that NR should discard other nations' laws - one of the main things
that disturbs me about NR is that it does allow other nations to dictate to
Rome.

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Youth in Nova Roma
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Thu, 24 May 2001 21:53:33 -0700

on 5/24/01 9:49 PM, Lucius Sicinius Drusus at lsicinius@-------- wrote:

> --- In novaroma@--------, "L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@e...> wrote:
>
> Snip
>>
>> Ave,
>>
>> Well, to a point. Regardless, according to the Constitution of Nova
> Roma
>> now...this is not even an issue. There are no citizens of Nova Roma
> who are
>> under 18, unless they are sui iuris. And, I havent gotten any
> documentation
>> from any underaged citizen requesting an early exemption from that
> fact. If
>> the Constitution is changed...we will then need to take all of this into
>> consideration.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>>
>> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>
> Ave,
>
> That Change may be comming. Earlier this Year Our Senior Consul was
> talking about amending the Constitution to allow People under 18 to
> become citizens, and he did mention the need to set a voting age once
> the Constitution was amended.
>
> So If the Constitution is amended, I propose this, in accord with
> Roman tradition.
>
> All Citizens who will turn 17 during a given year may assume the
> duties of adulthood, with the Permission of thier Pater/Mater on the
> 17th day of March. Citizens who do not have this permission may assume
> the duties of adulthood on March 17 of the year they will turn 18,
> again with the permission of the Pater/Mater. Those who fail to get
> this Permission would assume the status of an adult on their 18th
> Birthday.
>
> The assumption of Adult status includes the duty to pay taxes or
> suffer the penalities of the recently passed Lex.
>
> And for those pesky Macro National problems,
> Citizens who are not Sui Iuris in thier Macro Nation would also need
> the permission of thier Macro National Parent to assume Adult Status
> in Nova Roma.
>
> Vale,
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>

I like that change. For the last paragraph, that statement should be mailed
to the Censors. Other than that, I think I can endorse it.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

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Subject:	[novaroma] Youth in Nova Roma, Solution?
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 01:11:48 -0400

Though I understand that under official law, you must have parents
permission for a child who is under 18 years of age to register. This fact
does not mean they cannot vote! If we receive written permission from the
guardian of the minor then he can become a citizen, obviously.

Like I was saying before, there is no harm in letting teens vote. We all
must assume that any teen who finds his way here is above normal
intelligence and does have a adequate knowledge of what we stand for as a
nation.

Still I know I will not convince the majority. So a propose the fallowing
solution. Here are the steps a minor would have to take to have the right to
vote and be active in the government.

1. If a minor wishes to become a citizen then he/she must submit written
permission to Nova Roma.

2. Once Nova Roma receives permission and approves the application the minor
will become a citizen. Though he/she cannot vote.

3. Now the minor can do two things at this point. He/she can stay in the
present class or attempt to move up to have the rights to vote. If the minor
wishes to have a chance to vote they must pass a test.

The reasons for this test is to prove the ability of the minor to
effectively take part in government activities. This test can be written
only once or twice a year and could have topics like, Roman History, Nova
Roma Constitution, Religion... and so on. If the test is passed the minor
has proved him or herself able to take part in government.

Please note that passing this test would not make the citizen an adult. I
think the idea of making a minor an adult should be at the traditional age
of 17. Though until we are a independent nation this status of being adult
would only be factious and used as a label.

Or we could go above that. Maybe if the test is passed the votes cast by a
minor would only be worth half of an adult vote. We could do many different
things in this realm. I will leave that up to other civis.

Now you may be asking yourself, why go through all this trouble? We could
just simply keep our cirrent ³cut off² age and keep it simple. Yes it is
simpler, but it is not better. There are many long and short term advantages
to letting youth vote.

More teens would probably take an active role in Nova Roma. Just like us
they would want there ideas heard. If granted the chance this would result
in more minors being interested. Also by having youth as voting, active
citizens it will assure the future of Nova Roma. Heck you must admit it will
be awhile until we see a truly independent nation called Nova Roma. These
youths that will join maybe the first true real life citizens of the nation
we are building now. This could be one of the most important things we as
nation builders could do.

One more thing on the benefits of active youths. If a 15 year old joins
today, then three years when this person is 18 we will have model Roman
citizen already active and known in our nation. This will help get our voice
out to the governments that currently rule us. If the age range is larger,
say 18 and up, more likely we are to be heard!

What shall we do with the youths that don't pass the test? Well they can
still be citizens, though with out being able to vote. I am a professional
website designer. I would be more than happy to build a Nova Roma youth
group website. Us adult citizens could help teach and inspire the youngsters
to be role model citizens of the future. This way the youth may even have a
better chance at passing there next test and becoming a voting citizen.

I see no harm in this myself. I am friends with a history teacher, I am sure
he would be more than happy to help design a type of on-line lesson about
Rome and what we stand for, at this proposed Nova Roma youth group site.

I stay, lets teach the senate of tomorrow!
Vale,

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Civis Canada Orientalis

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Men and Boys
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 11:33:32 +0200

>Salvete Quirites,
>
>Of late i've seen a lot of citizens using demeaning terms towards each
>other, and I'd like to address ONE of these terms.
>
>Despite the fact that Draco has made it well known that he resents
>being refered to as a "kid" or a "boy" or some other age related term,
>some of you insist on throwing his age in his face.
>
>If your postion is so weak that the only way you can defend it is to
>attack other people rather than sticking to the ideas they are
>discussing, then there must not be much substance to your ideas.
>
>By Roman law Draco is a man. At 17 he would have been subject to the
>levies if Roma was raising a legio. He could have voted, and if the
>occasion arose served as a Paterfamilis. Those of you who claim to
>respect the customs of Roma should stop ignoring this fact.
>
>>From one of his posts I learned that Draco is about to turn 18, and
>will legaly be a man according to the laws of most Macro Nations. I'm
>not familar with the laws of his Macro Nation, but I do know that if
>he lived in mine he would be able to vote and be subject to the
>military draft (If the Need arose), and I assume that Belgium's laws
>are similar regarding voting and military service.
>
>Can the BS about his age. Draco is a man, and entitled to the same
>respect as any other man.
>
>IMHO most of the references to Draco's age were made with the intent
>to demean him, and attack his ideas by demeaning him. As far as I'm
>concerned there is NO difference in using these terms that he has
>repeatidly stated that he finds demeaning and using other terms that
>are intended to degrade someone. There is no difference in calling
>Draco a "Boy", and calling a Citizen of African heiratage a "Nigger"
>or calling a gay citizen a "Queer" They are all attempts to degrade
>another human being.
>
>Nor am I intrested in hearing any protests about members of Draco's
>family, faction, or even him using terms that others don't like.
>Didn't your Momma teach you that two wrongs don't make a right?
>
>Valete,
>L. Sicinius Drusus

Honorable Lucius Sicinius Drusus!

I read most of your posts with great pleasure. They are representative of
an independent and tolerant mind. I tend to agree with You as I do in the
above case. I don't like the name-calling tradition that has developed on
this list, I have to stop myself from reacting against these "traditions"
again and again. I have made my standpoint clear about this time and time
again. Last time was when I was upset because one cive called another an
Oligarch against that citizens explicit will. Maybe we should institue a
prize for the most polite and constructive cive of the month to encourage
virtuous behavior on the main list. You and Honorable Gnaeus Salix Astur
would be my candidates for this month.

But I have to add that I admire your wise words in other fields too, both
in the question of the Juries and Comitia Centuriata. I just say "keep on
going"! ;-)

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
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************************************************
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************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
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************************************************
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Subject:	[novaroma] ATTN (Religio Romana): ante diem VIII Kalendas Iunias (May 25th)
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <amg@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 11:58:19 +0100

Salvete omnes

This is a dies comitiales (C), when committees of citizens can
vote on political or criminal matters.

Today is the 'dies natalis' or aniversary of the dedication of the temple of
Fortuna Publica,
consecrated as Primigenia on the Quirinal Hill (where Fortuna Publica has
several temples).

I remind you that Maius is the month of the 'maiores', the old and the dead.
Maia, the
Lares and the Manes and their mother Mania (Mater Larum) are specially
honoured.

Valete bene in pace deorum

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Youth in Nova Roma
From:	Ira Adams <iadams@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 06:31:36 -0500

I agree. Children in Roma Antiqva grew up in a world that faced them with
real life issues all the time - life, death, hunger, sickness, war,
danger, etc.. They were doubtless a great deal more mature at 17 than
modern children. Modern children are protected, coddled, and insulated
from any conceiveable contact with reality until well into their twenties.

I think that if we are to change the age of suffrage it should be upward,
not downward.

Oh dear, now I shall have to wade through two dozen posts all about how
someone has been ordering their own Big Macs since they were three, and
had to catch the bus to school all by themselves from the second grade
on, and thus they are certainly mature enough to be a magistrate at 16 or
17.

I may unsubscribe.

L. Sergius Aust. Obst.

On 5/24/01 8:16 PM gcassiusnerva@-------- (gcassiusnerva@--------) wrote:

> I agree that some teens are abnormally bright and mature for their
>years.
> They are especially gifted. Yet I would not open up the House and Senate
>to
>teens on account of these exeptional few.
>
> Boring nerds? Sometimes, but with all the controversies we have here,
>we
>are really not that boring. {Why do the Apollonii stick around} I wish my
>friend Fern were here. She was a board member of the ADF druid's
>"mothergrove" for a while, and is still somewhat active in her local grove.
>She has been into these alternative religions for years. She tells me of
>the
>very thing I was talking about here. They too are rather bookish, perhaps
>dull to many, and definitely nerdy...yet they and similar groups have had
>more than enough of the "black lipstick" crowd as she calls them. Teens who
>find something they think is "cool" {by their own definition} and start
>callingthemselves "pagans", all the while merely rebelling agiainst the
>religion of the family. If the family were pagan, they would probably be
>die
>hard Billy Graham supporters. Now here we have the same attraction. We do
>get the teens who think somehow that speaking of "the gods" and saying
>'Salvete' in their posts will somehow make them Roman. Their actual
>interest
>in what Rome REALLY was and could be would be of little interest to them.
>
>Sorry, I do not see teens as stable enough to entrust with the vote.
>
>Nerva
>

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Youth in Nova Roma, Solution?
From:	domusludus@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 12:18:02 -0000

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I've been following this thread as best I can. I have no solutions
exactly, but I do have a comment or two.

I don't know about other countries, but in the US you can become
immancipated from your parents before you reach the "age of
adulthood" via some judge. However, while this means you can get
your own job and your own apartment, you still cannot smoke until you
are "legal age", still cannot drink until you are "legal age", still
cannot drive until you are "legal age", and still cannot *vote* until
you are legal age. Don't get me wrong, kids do all but the voting
way before they reach the "legal age" in a great many cases, but the
law says they must be *x* age before they do a great many things.

There have been "child prodogies" who went to college at 14 years
old. Can they vote? No. Why? Because they are too young. It
doesn't matter that they are very smart and mature and discovered the
cure to the common cold when they were 10. They aren't old enough to
vote, they can't vote. Life is really quite simple once you boil it
down a bit.

There have been some "kids" (and I call just about everyone that's
younger than *I* am a kid) within Nova Roma who have shown a great
deal of maturity and understanding and (most important) common sense.
At the same time there have been "kids" who have acted so badly you
want to first put them over your knee, then take them back behind the
wooodshed. Again, there have been "adults" who ought to be slapped
here in Nova Roma too.

I am an unschooling mother. I have a 4 year old daughter who can add
and subtract and divide (no multiplication yet) and is beginning to
learn to read, but can't write. She has a friend who graduated Head
Start yesterday. He can't count as far as she can, but he can do
other things she simply hasn't gotten to do yet (like write). My
daughter will most likely "graduate" at least two years before her
friend. However they will go to the polls at the same time, because
*neither* of them will be able to vote until they are 18. They will
cope, just like *I* had to, just like every adult I know had to.

The children of Nove Roma may not like it, but they can't vote until
they are 17. Cope. If you are serious about Nova Roma, you will
still be around when you become an adult at the age of 17. In the
meantime, we will swell with pride when you discover the cure for the
common cold, swell some more when you get your PHD at the age of 16.

Pax vobiscum,
Seia Silvania Atia

Sodalis Familiaris http://home.earthlink.net/~domusludus/
The Temple of Juno: http://home.earthlink.net/~domusludus/temple/
The Domus Ludus Library:
http://mylibrary.keeboo.com/public/domusludus/

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Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.8 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com>
Comment: It's OK to be paranoid when everyone's out to get you!!

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] FBI and Back Alley (was Macronational...)
From:	labienus@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 07:24:24 US/Central

Salve L Corneli

> Yeah I remember back in 98, (G-d I sound like an old man), when there was a
> list called the Roman Back Alley list...when it was at one time monitored by
> the FBI becuase of some comments that were made...

Excuse me? I remember that there was some talk about how e-mail messages could
be eavesdropped upon, and that the FBI occasionally does such things, but I
don't remember any evidence that that actually happened.

Vale
T Labienus Fortunatus

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Men and Boys
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 12:25:16 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@t...> wrote:

SNIP

>
> Honorable Lucius Sicinius Drusus!
>
> I read most of your posts with great pleasure. They are
representative of
> an independent and tolerant mind. I tend to agree with You as I do
in the
> above case. I don't like the name-calling tradition that has
developed on
> this list, I have to stop myself from reacting against these
"traditions"
> again and again. I have made my standpoint clear about this time and
time
> again. Last time was when I was upset because one cive called another an
> Oligarch against that citizens explicit will. Maybe we should institue a
> prize for the most polite and constructive cive of the month to
encourage
> virtuous behavior on the main list. You and Honorable Gnaeus Salix Astur
> would be my candidates for this month.
>
> But I have to add that I admire your wise words in other fields too,
both
> in the question of the Juries and Comitia Centuriata. I just say
"keep on
> going"! ;-)
>
> Vale
>
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
> Quaestor of Nova Roma
> Propraetor of Thule
> Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus

Salve,

I think you for your kind words. All I've really done is to simply
make a few suggestions, and in the cases where I disagreed with
another citizen is to make point whilr respecting their Dignitas. My
model for these posts where I do disagree is the sentance "Sir, You
are mistaken", That is stating the facts with respect for the other
person.

Vale
L. Sicinius Drusus

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Youth in Nova Roma
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 12:59:59 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, Ira Adams <iadams@e...> wrote:
> I agree. Children in Roma Antiqva grew up in a world that faced them
with
> real life issues all the time - life, death, hunger, sickness, war,
> danger, etc.. They were doubtless a great deal more mature at 17 than
> modern children. Modern children are protected, coddled, and insulated
> from any conceiveable contact with reality until well into their
twenties.
>
> I think that if we are to change the age of suffrage it should be
upward,
> not downward.
>
> Oh dear, now I shall have to wade through two dozen posts all about how
> someone has been ordering their own Big Macs since they were three, and
> had to catch the bus to school all by themselves from the second grade
> on, and thus they are certainly mature enough to be a magistrate at
16 or
> 17.
>
> I may unsubscribe.
>
> L. Sergius Aust. Obst.
>

Salvete,

I have done no more than suggest that we follow the Custom of Roma
Antiquita regarding the age of majority, including giving the Pater a
voice in deciding if the child was ready to assume the duties of
adulthood.

As for the actions of teens when they are given the vote, my experance
in Macro National politics leads me to beleave that most teens will
not make use of the franchise. 18 and 19 year olds have the worst
turnout of any age group. However those who do bother voting are far
more likely than most citizens to base their vote on the issuses than
the average citizen.

In the past I have advised Macro National Politicans to join
organizations like the local Masonic lodge because they will get some
votes from adults simply for the reason "He's a Lodge Brother!".

I have sought out endorsements on behalf of canidates from Christain
ministers, because adults will vote for a canidate simply because the
preacher told them to.

I have had to deal with adults who will vote for canidate X because
their Union or another organization endorsed that canidate.

I have had to deal with adults who based their vote on nothing other
than party labels, best summed up by the expression "Yeller Dawg
Democrats" (From a statement by a southern politican that he would
vote for a "Yeller Dawg if he were running on the Democratic Ticket"
(That's a Yellow Dog for those having problems with the depiction of
the Southeastern US accent)

I assure you that from my past experances, that in our most recent
vote, there were adult citizens who based their vote on nothing more
than their like or dislike for Sulla or Formosanus, and who didn't
even bother reading the Lex they were about to vote on.

Last of all I have advised canidates not to bother wooing the youth
vote, because the turnout is so low, and the voters who do bother
aren't easily swayed. I can also assure you that I know what I'm
talking about as far as how adult voters should be handled. Two of the
canidates I've worked for as an advisor are currently members of the
US Congress, and One was a US Senator until he passed away last year.

Valete,
L. Sicinius Drusus

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Subject:	[novaroma] Fwd: Canada Orientalis Provincia Reenactment Gathering
From:	"Pompeia Cornelia" <trog99@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 09:15:15 -0400

>From: "Pompeia Cornelia" <trog99@-------->
>Reply-To: Legio_VI@--------
>To: Legio_VI@--------
>Subject: [Legio_VI] Fwd: Hear Ye!!! Provincia Reenactment Gathering
>Salvete Omnes:

I am reposting the information on our forthcoming Provincial Gathering, as I
indicated I would. I am hoping to be able to meet some folks from abutting
provinciae as well.

Pompeia Cornelia
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> >From: "Pompeia Cornelia" <trog99@-------->
> >> >To: scriba_forum@--------
> >> >Subject: Provincia Reenactment Gathering
> >> >Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 20:50:32 -0400
> >> >
> >> >Salvete Omnes!!!:
> >> >
> >> >Please be advised of a Canada Orientalis-sponsored Provincial
>Gathering
> >> >planned for August of this year.
> >> >
> >> >A gathering of Nova Roma citizens is planned to meet at the Fort
>Malden,
> >> >Ontario Timeline Military/Historical Reenactment Event in Amheartburg,
> >> >Ontario August 3, 4. and 5.
> >> >
> >> >Where the heck is Amhearstburg??? Well, it is a town in Ontario right
> >> >along the Detroit River, close to the Windsor/Detroit Border.
> >> >
> >> >Some of us will be staying over, and likely some folks will just come
> >>out
> >> >for the day.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Commander Legion XXIV MA et Praefectus Sodalitas Militarium Galleo
> >> >Marcallus Velius attends this event annually, and in keeping with his
> >> >tradition, is apparently attending this year (what a collection of
> >>helmets,
> >> >and equipment he has...not to mention a headful of knowledge about
> >>Rome:)
> >> >:)
> >> >
> >> >Matter of fact, the man has BEEN to Rome!
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Anyway, Fort Malden is a reconstructed British Fort set in a
>campground.
> >> >The event has a military theme from various historical periods, but is
> >>not
> >> >exclusive to military reenactment.
> >> >
> >> >The coordinator's quote is "we offer reenactors of all time periods a
> >> >beautiful venue to do quality living history presentations for our
> >> >visitors" (the general public).
> >> >
> >> >In my estimation, this event is sadly amiss in one area:
> >> >THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH ROMANS!!!
> >> >
> >> >Although I intend to visit with everyone, I also intend to set up a
> >>display
> >> >table for Nova Roma, throw a few fliers around, some coins, that sort
>of
> >> >thing (in proper attire, of course).
> >> >
> >> >There is no cost for us to set up a display. All they would like is a
> >>few
> >> >pictures........Hey, like, no prob!! Fancy that.....so do I!!!
> >> >
> >> >There are campgrounds and meals available on site.....it looks like
> >>meals
> >> >are around $5.00. Camping is $12.00 per night, and there are showers
> >>and
> >> >firewood available ).
> >> >
> >> >General admission to the public is $2.75/person
> >> >
> >> >IF THAT ISN'T YOUR CUP OF FALERNIAN........
> >> >
> >> >There are hotels in the area, ranging from $54.00 - $69.00 single and
> >> >$65.00 - $80.00 double. The one hotel for $65.00 has a kitchenette
>and
> >>two
> >> >double beds, so they charge $6.00 nightly per person.
> >> >
> >> >Prices are all in Canadian Funds.
> >> >
> >> >Hey that's cheap!!!!!! And for you American buddies.......well, it's
> >>like
> >> >you are not paying at all!!!!
> >> >
> >> >So all you have to worry about is getting yourselves on up here to
>have
> >>a
> >> >bit of fun. Amhearstburg is easily accessed from Lacus Magnii Nova
> >> >Britannia, and in some cases Mediatlantica et Canada
> >> >Occidentalis........HINT.......HINT !!!!!!
> >> >
> >> >This could really be a BLAST!!!
> >> >
> >> >I would like to know who is coming, what days you are coming, what
>kind
> >>of
> >> >accommodation you are looking at, by June 15, because I would like to
> >>book
> >> >the hotel rooms in advance to ensure we have them, plus campgrounds,
> >>plus
> >> >there is an application to fill out. I actually have til mid July to
>do
> >> >application, but hmm, to get a hotel room or a camp spot is something
>I
> >> >hesitate to leave too long. What I am saying IS...you are taking your
> >> >chances by letting me know too much later than June 15.
> >> >
> >> >Apparently, we can show up at Fort Malden anytime after noon on Friday
> >> >August 3.
> >> >
> >> >If you have any further questions, please contact me at the above
> >>address,
> >> >and I shall get back to you ASAP......
> >> >
> >> >I will repost this information near the end of May to remind you all.
> >> >
> >> >Wouldn't this be nice if we could make this an ANNUAL event??
> >> >
> >> >Oh Boy!!!
> >> >
> >> >Bene vale,
> >> >Pompeia Cornelia
> >> >Propraetrix, pro temp
> >> >Canada Orientalis
> >> >
> >>
> >>_________________________________________________________________________
> >>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
>http://www.hotmail.com.
> >>
> >>
> >>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >>mediatlantica-unsubscribe@--------
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Legio_VI-unsubscribe@--------
>
>
>
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>
>

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Subject:	[novaroma] about using the caplock
From:	"Cascus Tiberius Rufio Longinus" <kminer_rsg@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 09:24:33 -0400

to all the cives I offended, I am truly sorry. I used the Cap lock to get
the attention of the individuals involved.

Please forgive my disregard for Email ettiquite.

I would like to thank Sulla for giving me his side of the situation. I hope
the two sides see fit to work this out with dignatas as they should

ctrl

Cascus Tiberius Rufio Longinus
Praefectus Legionis & Tribuni Militum
Legio VI Victrix Pia Fidelis
Pater, Gens Tiberia of Nova Roma

"Nos Sumus Romae milites, parati stamus ad potestatem et gloriam eius. Roma
est Lux."
"we are soldiers of Rome, for her might and glory we stand ready... She is
the Light"

www.geocities.com/legio_vi

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: FBI and Back Alley (was Macronational...)
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 13:25:28 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, labienus@t... wrote:
> Salve L Corneli
>
> > Yeah I remember back in 98, (G-d I sound like an old man), when
there was a
> > list called the Roman Back Alley list...when it was at one time
monitored by
> > the FBI becuase of some comments that were made...
>
> Excuse me? I remember that there was some talk about how e-mail
messages could
> be eavesdropped upon, and that the FBI occasionally does such
things, but I
> don't remember any evidence that that actually happened.
>
> Vale
> T Labienus Fortunatus

Salve,

I wasn't a citizen at that time, so I don't know the juicy details
about this subject, but I do know a little bit about the US FBI's
invasions of privacy.

Software called "Carnivore" does exist, and this software is capable
of montering thousands of e-mail posts at once. Carnivore looks for
certain words, and sucession is one such word, so it is possible that
Nova Roma could come to the attention of the US FBI.

That is not to say that they consider us worth the effort of close
montering.

For those who are disturbed by this Government Snooping, I suggest you
consider using PGP or GPG to encrypt your mail whenever possible.

Vale,
L. Sicinius Drusus

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: FBI and Back Alley (was Macronational...)
From:	labienus@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 09:21:24 US/Central

Salvete

> That is not to say that they consider us worth the effort of close
> montering.

That was my point at the time, actually. Back in '98 when the conversation
about the FBI and its tendency to gather political intelligence on groups like
Nova Roma was going on, we were hovering around 100 or so cives. It was my
contention that we weren't anywhere big or cohesive enough to be of much
interest to the FBI.

Regardless, L Sicinius' point about using encryption (PGP, etc.) to guard your
e-mail communication is an excellent one.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus

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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Re: FBI and Back Alley (was Macronational...)
From:	"Oppius Flaccus Severus" <oppiusflaccus@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 07:33:13 -0700

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Salvete Quiritibus;

Which brings up an excellent opportunity to "plug" our unofficial
mailing list devoted to learning all about using tools like PGP and
Lokmail. The mailing list is located at
http://www.topica.com/lists/NRCaute.
The mailing address is 'nrcaute@--------'

Bene valete,
Oppius
-----Original Message-----
From: labienus@-------- [mailto:labienus@--------]
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 2:21 AM
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Re: FBI and Back Alley (was
Macronational...)

Salvete
<snipped>

Regardless, L Sicinius' point about using encryption (PGP, etc.) to
guard your
e-mail communication is an excellent one.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus

<snipped>

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[novaroma] Reenactment
From:	jmath669642reng@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 10:41:29 -0400 (EDT)

Citizens;

For those who might have some small interest I will be attending a
Rendevouz (Reenactment of the period 1740 to 1840 in American History)
for the next few days. I will be home each evening late and will try to
keep my mail box clear, but my responses may be sporadic.

My thanks for your understandig.

Respectfully;
Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

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Subject:	[novaroma] I have just returned from Brittania
From:	qimaster@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 16:08:11 -0000

Being that I am a martial arts instructor of some note, I get a
chance to travel around and do seminars. My last three overseas
gigs have been in England, and this last trip was a very memorable
one from the standpoint that I actually had some free time to tour.

I was lucky enough to get to the town of Chester, where the XX Legio
was stationed. I also visited the quaint little museum they have
there that also has an active dig going on in it as well.

Very much recommended! a nice trinkets and mementos shoppe too.
sterling silver miniature models of legionaires, legats, horsemen
and stuff like that. also posters and postcards. a lot of stuff for
kids, as the place is very much a teaching tool. and they use it at
the elementary and middle school level.

They also have there a restoration of an ancinet roman bath, and were
working on the hypercaust while I was there. took some pix, will post
here at the web page when I get them developed.

I also had a chance to walk their wall, which surrounds the town, and
was once the walls for a roman fort, later built upon and fortified
during medieval times.

there was also an amphitheatre/colisseum at Chester. I took many pix
of that. I sat in the gladitor's waiting box as well. I also took
with me a small chunk of the wall. I have heard they mean to cover
the site over to build a building on top of it. shame really.

some of the stones in the wall of the waiting box also had various
graffiti in them, worn away pretty much, yes, but still discernable.

I will head back to UK in October and take a visit of Hadrian's Wall,
and a partly reconstructed Roman fort.

Theodorus Tiberius Germanicus.

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Macronational relationships
From:	domusludus@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 16:09:31 -0000

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

>
> Yeah I remember back in 98, (G-d I sound like an old man), when
> there was a list called the Roman Back Alley list...when it was at
> one time monitored by the FBI becuase of some comments that were
> made....OH the memories of bygone times...I am sure Atia
> remembers.....Dont you?
>
> Its nice to take trips down memorylane sometimes....
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

YOU feel old?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!

ROFLMAO!!!! I remember that. The FBI did in fact investigate the
Back Alley list but it was based upon a joke told by Dex (former
citizen) that used one of the FBI's infamous keywords. It went
nowhere and soon enough the FBI was off looking for the real
troublemakers (although at the time if you asked certain members of
the Senate we were troublemakers <G>).

::::::singing WAY offkey!:::::::

Memories, like the corners of my mind............

Sometimes I really hate you Sulla LOL!!! j/k

And I would like to echo Oppius' endorsement of the very unofficial
NR security list <G>.

Pax, Atia

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Subject:	[novaroma] 2nd try biting me in the butt!
From:	domusludus@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 16:13:33 -0000

Second try --- this must be my week for the past coming back to haunt
you LOL

Atia

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

>
> Yeah I remember back in 98, (G-d I sound like an old man), when
> there was a list called the Roman Back Alley list...when it was at
> one time monitored by the FBI becuase of some comments that were
> made....OH the memories of bygone times...I am sure Atia
> remembers.....Dont you?
>
> Its nice to take trips down memorylane sometimes....
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

YOU feel old?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!

ROFLMAO!!!! I remember that. The FBI did in fact investigate the
Back Alley list but it was based upon a joke told by Dex (former
citizen) that used one of the FBI's infamous keywords. It went
nowhere and soon enough the FBI was off looking for the real
troublemakers (although at the time if you asked certain members of
the Senate we were troublemakers <G>).

::::::singing WAY offkey!:::::::

Memories, like the corners of my mind............

Sometimes I really hate you Sulla LOL!!! j/k

And I would like to echo Oppius' endorsement of the very unofficial
NR security list <G>.

Pax, Atia

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Youth in Nova Roma
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 09:24:40 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete omnes; et salve, L. Sicini Druse.

--- Lucius Sicinius Drusus <lsicinius@--------> wrote:

<<snipped>>

> A 16 Year old that is just looking for the latest thrill will find us
> grumpy old Romans very boring, with our endless debates. If he's
> looking for a sense of belonging he will find us way too argumentive,
> and head for some touchy feely New Age site. As for "different" the
> more immature teens live by a herd mentality. They want to be
> different from adults, not different from each other. We are the
> wrong
> kind of "different" to attract them. With our intrests we are "Nerds"
> and about as uncool as it's possible to be.

As most of the time, I have to agree with Drusus. I am still young
enough to remember how does your tipical air-head teenager think, and I
guess they wouldn't touch a Novoroman with a stick.

The kind of teenager that would join Nova Roma would probably be one
very interested in History, Literature, Culture and the like. I think
he would be OUR kind of teenager ;-).

Besides, the propositon of following the Roman tradition would only
advance their acceptance a few months in time.

I think the question is not whether a 16/17 year old can handle the
responsabilities of voting as an 18, 21 or 25 year old. The question is
if we want to bring life to this Roman institution, and if we will be
willing to accept its many benefits.

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnæus Salix Astur.
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	[novaroma] C. Fabio Quintiliano et L. Sicinio Druso S.P.D.
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 09:49:08 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete omnes; et salve, amice optime Caeso.

--- Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@--------> wrote:

<<snipped>>

> Honorable Lucius Sicinius Drusus!
>
> I read most of your posts with great pleasure. They are
> representative of
> an independent and tolerant mind. I tend to agree with You as I do in
> the
> above case. I don't like the name-calling tradition that has
> developed on
> this list, I have to stop myself from reacting against these
> "traditions"
> again and again.

Both you, my dear Caeso, and Drusus, are my "role models" as far as
this list is concerned. You both are extremely polite and clear when
referring to other citizens and, as you concentrate on issues rather
than in personalities, your suggestions are always, IMHO, extremely
valuable.

I have to say that I also agree with both of you most of the time,
besides liking your manners (maybe there's a connection between those
two facts).

> Maybe we should institue a prize for the most polite and constructive
> cive of the month to encourage virtuous behavior on the main list.

Well, I am not sure if it would do any good, but I think your idea is
worth a try. Maybe you could propose it to the Sodalitas Virtutis.

> You and Honorable Gnaeus Salix Astur would be my candidates for this
> month.

Now I feel extremely honoured for this, especially coming from you, but
I have to disagree. L. Sicinius Drusus and yourself would be two much
more appropriate candidates, because my virtue comes more from ignoring
unpolite behaviour than from affronting it successfully, as you both do
sometimes.

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnæus Salix Astur.
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Youth in Nova Roma
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 10:23:40 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete omnes.

--- Lucius Sicinius Drusus <lsicinius@--------> wrote:

<<snipped>>

> I'm getting a sense of Deja Vu here any way. I heard the same
> arguments about letting 18 year olds vote back in the late sixties
> and
> early seventies.

And we all know which position won (at least in Europe). And, since
then, no catastrophies have occurred due to the vote of teenagers. I am
not supporting to allow 13 years old to vote, but merely 16/17 (which
is pretty different).

Besides, by following Drusus suggestion, we would be recreating a
specific Roman tradition, and we would be improving the quality of our
law, making it independent from Macronational laws.

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	R: [novaroma] Digest Number 1427
From:	"Prometheus" <fresco@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 14:32:57 +0200

Marcus Prometheus Salutem plurimam omnibus dicit.

Cives,
I read recently in the fiction NR Gladiator and previously in
some non fully fiction messages that Civis Formosanus is somehow linked to
barbarian perversion called communism, the last heresy of christianism.

As I guess I could be the hottest anti communist on this list, and I am very
disgusted by all hints of communism and also accustomed to recognize them
I want to witness a discrepancy:
I never saw the slightest hint of communist infection in the ideas expressed
by Formosanus.

All criticism migth have at least a seed of truth, or not?

Vale amice Formosane. My appreciation to you and to your sense of Justice
which I do not find has anything to do with marxist virus.

Valete cives omnes.

Marcus Prometheus
Civis Novae Romae
Italian business man living in still half communist Romania, Previously
Dacia Felix

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: FBI and Back Alley (was Macronational...)
From:	QFabiusMax@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 13:47:41 EDT

In a message dated 5/25/2001 6:38:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
lsicinius@-------- writes:

<< Software called "Carnivore" does exist, and this software is capable
of montering thousands of e-mail posts at once. Carnivore looks for
certain words, and sucession is one such word, so it is possible that
Nova Roma could come to the attention of the US FBI. >>
Actually it was "watchdog" software that spotted it. We talking about
burning babies (Dex's off hand and irreverent comments), and revolution in
the US at the time. In '98 the FBI was concerned about Satanist Cults. We
got labled as one. As far the list was concerned I discovered about the
mointering through a friend of mine in the LA branch of the secret service.
He attend a morning briefing at FBI headquarters to find "Nova Roma"
considered a danger to President Clinton and the US of America.
Since he was a fellow miniature wargamer and had been out to my house for a
bunch of games, he knew me, and my hopes for NR and he knew that I might be
wacked, but overthrowing the Establishment would be impossible since I was so
firmly involved in it.
He came at to my house and told me we were "hot." I can't tell you how
grateful I was. Here was a man risking his job because I had befriended him
and we had a common interest. So I informed the list through personal
e-mails. You should seen all the distinguished members of the list scatter
the next day, they bailed as fast as possible.

In Feb 1999 I had a meeting with then Bureau Chief Andrew Grossman at LA
headquarters.
I explained NR concepts and turned over as much info about the reconstruction
aspect as possible. Once they realized we were not going to have Latin
spouting Satanistic militia units over running US instlations, they mellowed
and reclassified us. To the best of my knowledge we are still classified as
the same "Historical reenactment" group.
Grossman had a sense of humor. When I was leaving he said as long we as used
swords rather then guns, we had nothing to worry about.
I miss the back alley. All we did there was gossip about sex, call each
other names, and start vicious rumors, BUT it kept all that from happening on
the main list, and it allowed us to all blow off steam.

Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: FBI and Back Alley (was Macronational...)
From:	domusludus@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 17:55:10 -0000

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

> I miss the back alley. All we did there was gossip about sex, call
> each other names, and start vicious rumors, BUT it kept all that
> from happening on the main list, and it allowed us to all blow off
> steam.
>
> Valete
> Q. Fabius Maximus

:::::dabbing eyes::::::

I miss it too <G>. The Back Alley was a wonderful place to blow off
steam. Lately I have been seriously considering bringing it back
............. Can you tell the FBI befre hand or should I simply PGP
encrypt the whole kit and kaboodle LOL!!

Pax,
Atia

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Subject:	[novaroma] Congratulations Honorable Claudia Maxima Dea
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 20:02:30 +0200

Salve Honorable Claudia Maxima Dea!

I want to congratulate You for becoming a citizen! I hope You will find
Your way here. If I can be of any assistans I will gladly give You any help
that is possible for me. I am the Provincial Governor of Thule (the Nordic
Countries), so it is both a pleasure to help new citizens and a duty.

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
Join the List for the Thule Provincia in Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThuleNovaRoma/join
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://www.acc.umu.se/~kerish/novaroma/main.html
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
Caeso, he who also is known as Christer Edling.
************************************************
Using a keyboard that don't want to make L! :-(
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80

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Subject:	[novaroma] Gods Help me I am WEAK!! (It's Baaaack)
From:	domusludus@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 18:03:31 -0000

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

OK, OK, I couldn't help myself. I have recreated the Back Alley on
Topica. There will be a few changes, which can be attributed to the
changes even within Nova Roma. First is, the list, while not closed
and requiring the owners approval to join, *is* not listed in Topicas
directory. The second is that NR Government Officials are now
welcome to join <G>. Partly this is because so many of the old Back
Alliers are now government officials <VBEG> and partly this is
because the old government officials we were so eager to get away
from are now not so bad <VBG>.

I welcome you to:

http://www.topica.com/lists/BackAlley

May the gods and the Senate have mercy on me <G>.

Pax,
Atia

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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] The Results
From:	"Vaughan, Michael ST" <Michael.Vaughan@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 15:44:20 +0100

F. Vedius Germanicus, wrote:
>If you really were interested in the plight of the transgendered,
>Formosanus, you'd fight the fight where it actually mattered, where you
>could change thousands of lives.

This is the second time I've seen you say something of this form concerning
this. Telling someone to "stop whining, and go deal with it somewhere that
matters", as it were, contrasts oddly with your assertions that NR _is_
somewhere that matters in its own right.

People are here because they care about NR. Calling people hypocrits because
they deal with an issue, no matter how tiresome and circular the discussion
may have become, in NR with more energy than they might elsewhere seems
disrespectful.

-michael (mainly) E
--
"In the future everything will be decided by me." -- Gaius Julius Caesar
Senatus Populusque Romanus 2754 AUC

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Gods Help me I am WEAK!! (It's Baaaack)
From:	trog99@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 18:47:15 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, domusludus@w... wrote:
> ---- (snip)

K, OK, I couldn't help myself. I have recreated the Back Alley on
> Topica. There will be a few changes, which can be attributed to the
> changes even within Nova Roma. First is, the list, while not closed
> and requiring the owners approval to join, *is* not listed in
Topicas
> directory. The second is that NR Government Officials are now
> welcome to join <G>. Partly this is because so many of the old Back
> Alliers are now government officials <VBEG> and partly this is
> because the old government officials we were so eager to get away
> from are now not so bad <VBG>.

Salve........so, based on the above, with great respect, I am unclear
as to why we need another list.

Pompeia
>
> I welcome you to:
>
> http://www.topica.com/lists/BackAlley
>
> May the gods and the Senate have mercy on me <G>.
>
> Pax,
> Atia
>
> -----snip-----

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Gods Help me I am WEAK!! (It's Baaaack)
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 19:01:35 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, trog99@h... wrote:
> --- In novaroma@--------, domusludus@w... wrote:
> > ---- (snip)
>
> K, OK, I couldn't help myself. I have recreated the Back Alley on
> > Topica. There will be a few changes, which can be attributed to the
> > changes even within Nova Roma. First is, the list, while not closed
> > and requiring the owners approval to join, *is* not listed in
> Topicas
> > directory. The second is that NR Government Officials are now
> > welcome to join <G>. Partly this is because so many of the old Back
> > Alliers are now government officials <VBEG> and partly this is
> > because the old government officials we were so eager to get away
> > from are now not so bad <VBG>.
>
> Salve........so, based on the above, with great respect, I am unclear
> as to why we need another list.
>
> Pompeia
> >

To avoid the Wrath of the list Mommy ;o)
Drusus

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Gods Help me I am WEAK!! (It's Baaaack)
From:	QFabiusMax@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 15:09:19 EDT

In a message dated 5/25/2001 11:08:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
domusludus@-------- writes:

<< OK, OK, I couldn't help myself. I have recreated the Back Alley on
Topica. There will be a few changes, which can be attributed to the
changes even within Nova Roma. First is, the list, while not closed
and requiring the owners approval to join, *is* not listed in Topicas
directory. The second is that NR Government Officials are now
welcome to join <G>. Partly this is because so many of the old Back
Alliers are now government officials <VBEG> and partly this is
because the old government officials we were so eager to get away
from are now not so bad <VBG>.

I welcome you to:

http://www.topica.com/lists/BackAlley

May the gods and the Senate have mercy on me <G>.

Pax,
Atia
>>
Salvete
As Crys, sorry, Atia says, it was a place that we could gossip about
government officials and their pitiful sex lives. <RBG> Very Roman.
Since NR is become more inclusive she is right, most of its original members
are now Senators and some even made consul!! <BG>

I welcome the Back Alley, back. In Rome you could use back alleys to conduct
business with insults and more important write comments (read gossip) about
other Romans with no loss of dignatis. (Unless, of course, you pissed off
the Emperor) Suetonius loved back alleys.
That was also where a lot of "unofficial" political gerrymandering took place.
So if you enter, prepare for the worst. LOL! I remind all my political
enemies that I always give better then I receive.
Leave your toga at the entrance. Unless you are a "working girl" of course.
Gods, I miss Dex!
Valete
Quintus Fabius Maximus

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Gods Help me I am WEAK!! (It's Baaaack)
From:	domusludus@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 19:12:55 -0000

>
> To avoid the Wrath of the list Mommy ;o)
> Drusus

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!

The woman just had a child, she really don't need the other 400 of ya!

Atia

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Gods Help me I am WEAK!! (It's Baaaack)
From:	domusludus@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 19:20:14 -0000

> Salvete
> As Crys, sorry, Atia says,

So much for being incognito <G>.

>it was a place that we could gossip about
> government officials and their pitiful sex lives. <RBG> Very Roman.
> Since NR is become more inclusive she is right, most of its
original members
> are now Senators and some even made consul!! <BG>
>

Not that this is a frightening concept or anything, mind <G>

> I welcome the Back Alley, back. In Rome you could use back alleys
to conduct
> business with insults and more important write comments (read
gossip) about
> other Romans with no loss of dignatis. (Unless, of course, you
pissed off
> the Emperor) Suetonius loved back alleys.
> That was also where a lot of "unofficial" political gerrymandering
took place.
> So if you enter, prepare for the worst. LOL! I remind all my
political
> enemies that I always give better then I receive.
> Leave your toga at the entrance. Unless you are a "working girl" of
course.
> Gods, I miss Dex!
> Valete
> Quintus Fabius Maximus

It was your idea the first time too <G>. You *DO* have a knack for
starting *&%&^ don't you hon <G>.

Atia

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Men and Boys
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 21:20:33 +0200

Salve Luci Sergi,

>
> Salvete
>
> In English-speaking societies, there is nothing wrong with being a "boy"

(snipped)

I don't live in an English-speaking society.

Vale bene,
Draco

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Subject:	[novaroma] Party Politics in the Age of Caesar
From:	"Navarra Reid" <optabilis@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 14:44:51 -0600

Ave Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix:

I just read your message from May 20 (that's how far behind I am in reading
this list). I took out _Party Politics in the Age of Caesar_ with the full
intent of reading it. Alas, I ran out of time and had to return it to the U
of Sask. library without even having opened the cover. However, if you
would be so kind as to summarize some of what you have read and, perhaps,
tell us some of the points that interest you I would be grateful (my reading
list overfloweth).

Si vales, valeo

Appia Claudia Indagatrix

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Men and Boys
From:	ksterne@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 20:48:29 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@p...>
wrote:
> Salve Luci Sergi,
>
> >
> > Salvete
> >
> > In English-speaking societies, there is nothing wrong with being
a "boy"
>
> (snipped)
>
> I don't live in an English-speaking society.
>
> Vale bene,
> Draco

Salve Sexte Apolloni,

Some segments at least of some english-speaking societies take much
offense at being called a boy. In some places it would even be
likely to get one challenged to a fight.

Vale,
Gaius Popillius Laenas

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] GLADIATOR--The NR Version, chap 5
From:	QFabiusMax@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 17:15:11 EDT

Salvete.
Does any body have 4 they can forward to me? The e-mail here in Gaul is very
erratic and unreliable. No offensive offered, Propraetor, I know you are
doing your best.
Gratias
Q. Fabius Maximus

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] GLADIATOR--The NR Version, chap 5
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 14:16:54 -0700

I will forward chapter 4 to you, Fabius.

Sulla

QFabiusMax@-------- wrote:
>
> Salvete.
> Does any body have 4 they can forward to me? The e-mail here in Gaul is very
> erratic and unreliable. No offensive offered, Propraetor, I know you are
> doing your best.
> Gratias
> Q. Fabius Maximus
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Men and Boys
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 18:27:18 EDT

Salve Draco

And your point was....?

The conversation took place here, in English. Are you saying that perhaps
you just misinterpreted an idiomatic use of the word? If so, you needn't
apologize to me. I think it was Nerva you were having the "spat" with.

When I call my 18 year-old son my "child" he doesn't get upset and
offended. He just writes it off to Dad's craziness (after all, Dad goes
around home in a Roman tunic, "weaves" mail armor, keeps a legionary
gladius and pilum for home defense, and taught him to throw a pilum when
he reached puberty).

Vale,

L. Sergius Aust. Obst.

On 5/25/01 2:20 PM S. Apollonius Draco (hendrik.meuleman@--------) wrote:

>Salve Luci Sergi,
>
>>
>> Salvete
>>
>> In English-speaking societies, there is nothing wrong with being a "boy"
>
>(snipped)
>
>I don't live in an English-speaking society.
>
>Vale bene,
>Draco
>
>
>

certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.

(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Men and Boys
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 18:30:05 EDT

Salve Gaius Popillius

Judging from your email address, it seems you are posting from the
American South. English is not spoken in the American South.

Vale,

L. Sergius Aust. Obst.

On 5/25/01 3:48 PM ksterne@-------- (ksterne@--------) wrote:

>--- In novaroma@--------, "S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@p...>
>wrote:
>> Salve Luci Sergi,
>>
>> >
>> > Salvete
>> >
>> > In English-speaking societies, there is nothing wrong with being
>a "boy"
>>
>> (snipped)
>>
>> I don't live in an English-speaking society.
>>
>> Vale bene,
>> Draco
>
>Salve Sexte Apolloni,
>
>Some segments at least of some english-speaking societies take much
>offense at being called a boy. In some places it would even be
>likely to get one challenged to a fight.
>
>Vale,
>Gaius Popillius Laenas
>

certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.

(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Men and Boys
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 15:40:18 -0700

Ave,

Ok, I will take the bait....being that I am travel impaired....what is
spoken in the American South?

Sulla

on 5/25/01 3:30 PM, LSergAust@-------- at LSergAust@-------- wrote:

>
> Salve Gaius Popillius
>
> Judging from your email address, it seems you are posting from the
> American South. English is not spoken in the American South.
>
> Vale,
>
> L. Sergius Aust. Obst.
>
> On 5/25/01 3:48 PM ksterne@-------- (ksterne@--------) wrote:
>
>> --- In novaroma@--------, "S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@p...>
>> wrote:
>>> Salve Luci Sergi,
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Salvete
>>>>
>>>> In English-speaking societies, there is nothing wrong with being
>> a "boy"
>>>
>>> (snipped)
>>>
>>> I don't live in an English-speaking society.
>>>
>>> Vale bene,
>>> Draco
>>
>> Salve Sexte Apolloni,
>>
>> Some segments at least of some english-speaking societies take much
>> offense at being called a boy. In some places it would even be
>> likely to get one challenged to a fight.
>>
>> Vale,
>> Gaius Popillius Laenas
>>
>
>
> certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.
>
> (You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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Subject:	[novaroma] The Cornelii
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 18:41:17 EDT

Salvete Omnes

Earlier this week, in a playful mood, I referred to Gens Cornelia as the
"People's Republic of Cornelii."

I want to be certain it is understood that I did not mean to imply that
there were any political or social parallels to be drawn between our PRC
and the despotically ruled nation known as the People's Republic of
China. I was merely making a play on the coincident initials and on the
size of Lucius Cornelius Sulla's gens.

No offense intended (at least not to the Cornelii).

Vale,

L. Sergius Aust. Obst.

certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.

(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Men and Boys
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 18:46:19 EDT

Salve

I'm not sure - it seems to be some kind of polyglot derivative of
English, French, Spanish, and some African and Native American languages.
I have a hard time being understood here, and I've spent my entire adult
life here.

And when my father, who is a native Southerner, is in Australia, I have
to translate for him on the streets. He can't understand a word they're
saying in Oz, either.

Of course, I suspect the Brits would argue that English isn't spoken in
Oz either.

Hey, even if I start a fight on this, it will be more fun than most of
the fights we've had lately!

:-()

Vale,

L. Sergius Aust. Obst.

On 5/25/01 5:40 PM L. Cornelius Sulla Felix (alexious@--------)
wrote:

>Ave,
>
>Ok, I will take the bait....being that I am travel impaired....what is
>spoken in the American South?
>
>Sulla
>

certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.

(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)

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Subject:	[novaroma] American languages (was: Men and Boys)
From:	"Marcos Boehme" <m_arminius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 19:51:10 -0300

Ave,

Here, in the south of America, we spoke:
-portuguese, in Brazil
-spanish, in Argentina, Chile, Uruguai, Peru, Colombia and others
-english in Guiana, flemish in Suriname and french in French Guiana, along with a lot of other native languages.

Or do you meant the south of North America?

Marcus Arminius Maior
Propraetor Brasiliae

--
>Ave,
>
>Ok, I will take the bait....being that I am travel impaired....what is
>spoken in the American South?
>
>Sulla
>
>> Salve Gaius Popillius
>>
>> Judging from your email address, it seems you are posting from the
>> American South. English is not spoken in the American South.
>>
>> Vale,
>> L. Sergius Aust. Obst.

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] American languages (was: Men and Boys)
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 15:56:56 -0700

Ave,

I meant South of North America. it was in response to what Senator Lucius
Sergius posted....

Thanks for the response Marcus Arminius.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla

on 5/25/01 3:51 PM, Marcos Boehme at m_arminius@-------- wrote:

> Ave,
>
> Here, in the south of America, we spoke:
> -portuguese, in Brazil
> -spanish, in Argentina, Chile, Uruguai, Peru, Colombia and others
> -english in Guiana, flemish in Suriname and french in French Guiana, along
> with a lot of other native languages.
>
> Or do you meant the south of North America?
>
> Marcus Arminius Maior
> Propraetor Brasiliae
>
> --
>> Ave,
>>
>> Ok, I will take the bait....being that I am travel impaired....what is
>> spoken in the American South?
>>
>> Sulla
>>
>>> Salve Gaius Popillius
>>>
>>> Judging from your email address, it seems you are posting from the
>>> American South. English is not spoken in the American South.
>>>
>>> Vale,
>>> L. Sergius Aust. Obst.
>
>
>
> Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
> http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: American languages (was: Men and Boys)
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 23:03:30 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "Marcos Boehme" <m_arminius@l...> wrote:
> Ave,
>
> Here, in the south of America, we spoke:
> -portuguese, in Brazil
> -spanish, in Argentina, Chile, Uruguai, Peru, Colombia and others
> -english in Guiana, flemish in Suriname and french in French Guiana,
along with a lot of other native languages.
>
> Or do you meant the south of North America?
>
> Marcus Arminius Maior
> Propraetor Brasiliae
>
> --
> >Ave,
> >
> >Ok, I will take the bait....being that I am travel impaired....what is
> >spoken in the American South?
> >
> >Sulla
> >
> >> Salve Gaius Popillius
> >>
> >> Judging from your email address, it seems you are posting from the
> >> American South. English is not spoken in the American South.
> >>
> >> Vale,
> >> L. Sergius Aust. Obst.

Salve

The Senator was refering to America Austrorientalis, Where we speak
English without a Yankee, British or Oz accent. ;o)

Vale,
L. Sicinius Drusus

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] American languages (was: Men and Boys)
From:	LSergAust@--------
Date:	Fri, 25 May 2001 19:04:43 EDT

Salve Marcus Arminius

Well, of course, to a US citizen, "The South" refers only to their South
and no-one else's. After all, even Canada has a South (that's where they
grow the food - all the rest is a deep freeze ;-) ).

I'm afraid I've been caught using another local idiom. No offense was
intended to those of you who live on the top half of the planet.
(Naturally, they don't recognize that down here, either. They insist on
referring to Oz as "down under." They even make their world globes upside
down here and they depict the Solar System upside down in their textbook
illustrations.)

Vale,

L. Sergius Aust. Obst.

On 5/25/01 5:51 PM Marcos Boehme (m_arminius@--------) wrote:

>Ave,
>
>Here, in the south of America, we spoke:
>-portuguese, in Brazil
>-spanish, in Argentina, Chile, Uruguai, Peru, Colombia and others
>-english in Guiana, flemish in Suriname and french in French Guiana, along
>with a lot of other native languages.
>
>Or do you meant the south of North America?
>
>Marcus Arminius Maior
>Propraetor Brasiliae
>
>--
>>Ave,
>>
>>Ok, I will take the bait....being that I am travel impaired....what is
>>spoken in the American South?
>>
>>Sulla
>>
>>> Salve Gaius Popillius
>>>
>>> Judging from your email address, it seems you are posting from the
>>> American South. English is not spoken in the American South.
>>>
>>> Vale,
>>> L. Sergius Aust. Obst.
>

certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.

(You know, Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.)

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