| Subject: |
[novaroma] When the village empties, look for the headman |
| From: |
iasonvs_serenvs@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 00:00:19 -0000 |
|
Salvete.
When the village empties, and the bells ring not, look for the
headman. Wonder aloud, within earshot of his house, if maybe his
head is too big for the man.
I suppose the "mommy" will warn me again for this, but I will not
refrain from defending my friend.
I did not agree with Draco on every subject. I do not share the body
of experiences and memories that inform his view of the world. I
have had the luxury (and oh how rich we are...) of growing up on this
side of the pond. The worst government scandals of which we
Americans are aware, generally, involve:
1. A president and his silly little penis
2. A president and his misguided loyal to
"friends"
3. A president who broke his word and the law
to secure the release of hostages
4. 555 various politicians routinely lying to
us while we approve and applaud them for
it
Our European brothers have a rather different history than our own,
and consequently, see the world differently than we do. As for those
who are about to flame me, the above are GENERALIZATIONS. No, that
was not yelling.
We have never had a Franco, a Mussolini, A Stalin, A Cauecescu
(sic?), A moustach'd little bigot...we have had no reason to develop
their level of cynicism vis-a-vis government.
Incidentally, our roman brothers did - hence the tribunate, eraticus
magentas, and the like.
When a man like Draco leaves us, it is no longer merely a matter of
discontent. Every day he lent his voice to the forum. Every day he
tried, agree with him or not, to lend his own experience to the
weight of our own. He bared his creative attempts to our scrutiny,
and left his poetry on our electronic doorsteps. He revealed himself
to us. He offered his frank, sincere and unredacted opinions to the
PUBLIC forum for PUBLIC scrutiny. He did not, despite the sometimes
intemperate passion so common and so admirable in youth, recoil from
the daily ABUSE, as the Propraetor of the Great Lakes so succintly
stated.
When the willing inhabitant departs the city, know truly that the rot
from the center expands.
If our magistrates cannot, as Gnaeus Salix Astur noted, act as Romans
would, and care for so willing and eager a young man as Draco, maybe
it is time for an interrex.
Ser Oppius, I hear your words. I too admire founders, builders,
creators. I too, as Ayn Rand once said, despise the secondhanders.
Ser Oppius, my friend, history too has her voice...after the
foundation of the city is completed, Romulus must die for Rome to
prosper. Rome is built, the Sabines are coming. Die, Romulus, Die.
May the gods now grant us Numa.
Iasonvs
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Possible Source of Income? |
| From: |
Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 May 2001 17:01:49 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Salvete, A. Claudi Petri.
--- Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@--------> wrote:
> Recently I designed a historically accurate Roman board game called
> Latrunculi. Latrunculi is thought to be the origin of modern chess.
> These
> games cost nothing to make. Therefor could we sell them and get a
> 100%
> return.
I have read some things about latrunculi, and I have tried to play a
few games. Could I ask you what have tou decided about the movement of
the Aquila? The problem I saw was that it was extremely difficult to
capture the Aquila even if all its "soldiers" had been "slaughtered".
Its mobility made it too fast to be captured by four pieces. I had
thought of two options:
a) Giving the game as won either when the enemy Aquila is captured or
when all other enemy pieces have been captured.
b) Restraining the movement of the Aquila (which makes for a less
exiting game).
What have been your decisions?
BTW, just in case you don't know what the Aquila is, I am talking about
this reconstruction:
http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/w/x/wxk116/roma/latrunc2.html
=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] For the improvement of Nova Roma |
| From: |
"Gnaeus Salix Astur" <salixastur@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 00:29:24 -0000 |
|
Salvete omnes.
I have been thinking on how could I help to improve Nova Roma. And
the way that has come to my mind is my usual way: we should try to
follow more closely the Mores Maiorum (the Way of our Ancestors) in
some aspects. Thus, I have come up with this proposition.
I will be willing to discuss it with anyone. It is just my initial
though, and it might be in need of improvement.
Some of these ideas are new, and some others are not. Some will
probably have been discussed before. I just wanted to bring them to
general discussion because I believe they are important.
1.- On the replacing resigning officers: Instead of replacing every
missing officer with a new election, we could draw new officers from
the "pool" of candidates who lost the election. Just to make it clear:
a) If an officer resigns, he could be substituted by the candidate
who
obtained more votes after him. In that way, we would avoid holding
additional elections, and also requiring additional "safeguards"
candidates.
b) If no candidate was left, and only for the magistratures without
imperium, I would agree with the Senate appointing an individual to
take the office.
c) If a magistrate with imperium resigned and there were not
additional candidates from the last election, a new election should be
held.
2.- On the acceptance of new citizens during elections: I completely
agree with the spirit of this measure; however, we could avoid the
damage this could do to the growth of our Res Publica by accepting new
citizens during Comitia, but not allowing them to vote on those
Comitia.
3.- On holding several offices: I think we should restore the Roman
prohibition of the "accumulatio". No magistrate should held more than
one office at the same time. I would not include the Sodalitates'
offices on this point, and I am not sure whether we should include
Provincial offices (I guess we shouldn't). I know that, right now,
this does not happen in the central government. However, it did
happen in the past, and as there is no specific law banning it, it
could happen in the future.
4.- On repeating a term of office: I think we should also restore the
prohibition of "prorrogatio" in central government offices. I know
that the Lex Iunia de Temporum Definitione Consulatuum does forbid a
reelection as consul, but I think it should be expanded to cover all
central magistratures.
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Being Apart from Nova Roma |
| From: |
oppiusflaccus@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 00:30:43 -0000 |
|
Salve Consul Cassius;
An excellent story indeed! Very moving and appropriate to
the time. Being one of those that hasn't heard it before,
it echoes many similar feelings in me.
Bene vale in Pace Deorum,
Oppius
--- In novaroma@--------, cassius622@a... wrote:
> Salvete,
>
> I've told this story before, but since "resignations" always bring
it to my mind I'll bore everyone with it again. My apologies in
advance...
>
<snipped
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Resignation of the Governor of Gaul |
| From: |
"M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 00:49:05 +0200 |
|
M. Apollonius Formosanus Senatori Fortunato S.P.D.
I do not follow the reasoning to tell the truth. I have been invited
by the Senior Consul to resign, and the remaining Aediles are
underemployed, as our Aediles in general usually are. I would feel
considerably more responsibility if I (had) held a job with urgent
substantive functions such as a Rogator or Censor. Mostly, with the
games out of the way, we are approving domains, and one Aedile could
do the job more efficiently than four, which we have tended to think
all have to be consulted.
However, I have the greatest respect for your opinion, and I am
willing to stay for a reasonable time necessary to hold the elections
for a new suffect Plebeian Aedile. You may inform the Senate or
appropriate magistrates of this if you wish and see if they are
desirous of my remaining for that purpose. I rather doubt that they
would want me to, but if a formal request to remain is issued by
competent authority, I shall do so. I would like the matter to be
treated as quietly as possible, however.
I shall expect a report from you as to the results of your inquiries.
The clock on my nine days remains ticking until and unless I am
requested to remain by the Senate or Consuls. It is my current belief
that both would prefer me to remain resigned and that I am therefore
acting in accordance with their will as well as my own.
I might add that I feel they would be ill advised to invite me or our
Propraetorial friend to return, unless they feel an overwhelming
desire to establish a precedent for the future. Releasing persons no
longer wishing to be citizens from any magistracies they have would
seem both the most humane and secure method unless the nature of the
office and circumstances would tend to significantly damage the
operation of the State. However, I can understand the argument that
magistrates might be asked to give a month's notice to avoid
disruptions.
Please make it clear that I am acceding to your reasoning and request
in making this offer, and in no wise trying to return to power for
personal or political reasons or to cause irritation, which I fear is
the more likely interpretation that may be placed upon it. I note in
addition, that I interpret my resignation from *office* not to be
subject to the nine-day waiting period, so unless I am in error about
that, returning to office would require that my resignation be
refused by someone. I submit myself to your advice on this point.
All or any part of this letter in reasonable context may be shown to
the authorities as you wish.
Vale!
M. Apollonius Formosanus
On Mon, 28 May 2001 11:02:42 -0500, Fortunatus wrote:
>Salvete Quirites et M Apolloni et Iane Queri
>
>There is nothing in the oath of office that requires one to serve
>one's
>full term in office. Therefore, one does not become foresworn by
>resigning office.
>
>That said, one does break one's oath if one does not do one's best
to
>act (the oath says "to always act," but we are only human) in the
>best
>interests of the people and Senate of Nova Roma, and if one does not
>"fulfill the obligations and responsibilities" of one's office.
>
>Therefore, I would ask those magistrates who have just resigned from
>the
>respublica to postpone their resignation long enough to allow the
>people
>and Senate to choose their replacements. In this way, they can
avoid
>becoming foresworn and lay down their office with their honor
intact.
>
>Valete
>T Labienus Fortunatus
>--
>"Ipsa scientia potestas est."
> -Francis Bacon
_________________________________________________
Marcus Apollonius Formosanus
Magister Scholae Latinae
ICQ# 61698049 AIM: MAFormosanus MSN: Formosanus
Minervium Virtuale: http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/Minervium.htm
____________________________________________________
Memento Idus Martias - Remember the Ides of March.
____________________________________________________
All that is needed for the forces of evil to triumph in the world is for
enough good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke
___________________________________________________
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] In defense of my friend |
| From: |
iasonvs_serenvs@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 01:18:29 -0000 |
|
Salvete.
Today I took my family to a parade. The parade was canceled on
account of the weather. The battlefield affords no such luxury.
Neither does esteem or friendship.
I did not come to the new rome in order to engage in public discord
of a most hostile nature. I am given to philosophical pursuits, and
although I have worked on many campaigns, some successful and some
not, I have done so for only two reasons. The first is friendship.
The second is philosophy. I have helped to elect men and women with
whom I would never share a meal or a loyal embrace, whose traits and
habits were contrary to my own personal sympathies. Yet, they
remained loyal to their faith, their convictions, and the
philosophical underpinnings of their brief terrestrial sojourn. On
the sweet rare occasion, I have shared near complete common cause.
What mattered then, as now, is the desire to serve humanity, to give
of the fullness of one's life, and to do so with the full enjoyment
of one's own fragile, wonderful, beautiful self.
I did not come to Nova Roma in expectation of democracy. I did not
come to Nova Roma in expectation of utopian brotherhood. Men will be
men, and women slightly better than that. We, silly magical
primates, thrive well only in the flux of experience.
I did come to Nova Roma in the expectation of a common ground from
which to engage the terrible, ephemeral, amazing vagaries of life,
fate and liberty. It was the signature Roman trademark, that common
ground in spite of personal differences. Rome was a unity born of
conflicting diversities. Nova Roma is not. Nova Roma is Roma
without the Roma.
I do not offer these words as complaint. I do not complain. I do
not even pretend to try.
I do not believe in the leadership of Nova Roma. I do not have faith
in the leadership in general. I speak no words of opposition to the
leaders in particular. Each man and woman in his or her own way
gives what is possible to each. But, in the greater aggregate, the
leadership of Nova Roma is a failure. As a group, despite the many
virtues each member possesses in the individual, Nova Roma's
leadership cannot lead.
Flame me if you must.
A leader is a finger pointing toward the goal. A leader, like a kind
word to the weary, is timely. the leadership of Nova Roma, in the
aggregate, is antithesis of practical serendipity.
My friend, Draco, was barely a man. Young, eager, hopeful, as of yet
uncured of his youthful passions and idealism, he was the model of
the bright young man. He is, in the fullest sense of the word,
unadulterated. The world will disabuse him of the vast majority of
his notions, his dreams, his flights of fancy. Who are we, who claim
to be his countrymen, his elders, his helping hand in the dark of the
modern night - who are we to deny him the patience of our longer
experience?
Who are our leaders that they have failed to recognize the very
loyalty (to us!) which compelled him to oppose those aspects of our
communion with which he could not agree?
A traitor goes over to them enemy. Draco drew nearer to us, exposed
himself, exposed his misgivings, his failings, his mny strengths -
exposed his words for our most public scrutiny.
We, grand collective new rome, we gave him calumny and slander in
return.
No wonder, if we are the generation which moves into the coming
leadership of the world, that our young seek the darkness furthest
from our "light."
No wonder that all the sins of the past hundred years find such
fertile soil in the their blossoming hearts, to corrupt men into
beasts.
No wonder that the lessons so easily drawn from the conflicts of the
twentieth century are lost to an entire generation.
No wonder, then, that we have no temples, no land, no hope, and no
real leadership. The gods abandon us.
I call now upon men and women of honor to oppose the leadership of
Nova Roma. I do not, for the record, call for any revolt. I call
for the creation of the loyal opposition. I remain in the city,
loyal to Roma Mater. Indeed, I will not leave her. Neither will I
yield to overweening power, no matter its legitmacy.
This day, I sacrfice much goodwill for the honor of a friend.
So be it.
Iasonvs
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|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] When the village empties, look for the headman |
| From: |
"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 May 2001 21:51:57 -0400 |
|
Salve,
>>I suppose the "mommy" will warn me again for this, but I will not
refrain from defending my friend.>>
Individuals are not warned on this List for their defense of others (or
themselves), but for poor choices in behavior.
Your defense of Draco does not contain rudeness or inappropriate behavior,
therefore this post of yours is of no trouble.
Your "supposition" of who is moderated and for what is gravely in error. If
I had the luxury of moderating only those who irritated me I would find this
job quite an easy one. As it is, I find it quite a challenge........a
worthwhile one, mind you, but far from easy.
Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena
Curatrix Sermonis
<"mommy" only to those who need the supervision>
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Tapestries... |
| From: |
CmndrZil@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 May 2001 22:11:20 EDT |
|
Salve,
I have noticed that this list does not have to be dedicated to "politics"
(vindictiveness, cruelty, politics, same difference), and so I thought I
would bring up a conversation about tapestries.
I intend to weave a tapestry. I don't know why, I just do. I don't know how
to weave, I guess I could figure that out as it goes along. It seems fairly
simple to me. But, I thought I'd ask, what sort of themes would you suggest
for a tapestry? If you were going to weave a tapestry, what image would you
weave?
Tarquinia Euphemia
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] In defense of my friend |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 May 2001 19:14:55 -0700 |
|
Ave,
This will be a long reply..and let me state, I have tried to be as
respectfully as possible to this,
on 5/28/01 6:18 PM, iasonvs_serenvs@-------- at iasonvs_serenvs@--------
wrote:
> Salvete.
>
> Today I took my family to a parade. The parade was canceled on
> account of the weather. The battlefield affords no such luxury.
> Neither does esteem or friendship.
That is the nature of war....but, obviously...you have more to say.
> I did not come to the new rome in order to engage in public discord
> of a most hostile nature.
Are you sure about this...this is your second post...trying to rile up
discord becuase of the "persecution of Sextus Apollonius Draco." I do not
think the majority of Nova Roma...or for that matter the leaders of Nova
Roma contributed to that state that you believe existed.
I am given to philosophical pursuits, and
> although I have worked on many campaigns, some successful and some
> not, I have done so for only two reasons. The first is friendship.
> The second is philosophy. I have helped to elect men and women with
> whom I would never share a meal or a loyal embrace, whose traits and
> habits were contrary to my own personal sympathies.
I am sure most of us have done the same.
Yet, they
> remained loyal to their faith, their convictions, and the
> philosophical underpinnings of their brief terrestrial sojourn. On
> the sweet rare occasion, I have shared near complete common cause.
Thats a rare thing.
> What mattered then, as now, is the desire to serve humanity, to give
> of the fullness of one's life, and to do so with the full enjoyment
> of one's own fragile, wonderful, beautiful self.
That is a noble sentiment....and something that is a wonderful dream.
> I did not come to Nova Roma in expectation of democracy.
Thats good...I did not either..I came to NR for a love of Rome.
I did not
> come to Nova Roma in expectation of utopian brotherhood.
No nation has that ability to provide a Utopia....in any way shape or form.
Men will be
> men, and women slightly better than that. We, silly magical
> primates, thrive well only in the flux of experience.
Basically human nature is human nature is what you are trying to
say...correct?
> I did come to Nova Roma in the expectation of a common ground from
> which to engage the terrible, ephemeral, amazing vagaries of life,
> fate and liberty. It was the signature Roman trademark, that common
> ground in spite of personal differences. Rome was a unity born of
> conflicting diversities. Nova Roma is not. Nova Roma is Roma
> without the Roma.
I disagree. Nova Roma is founded by individuals and each individual seems
to have their own idea of how Roma is supposed to be. I think it is
presumptious of you to state Nova Roma is Roma without the Roma. Just what
have you done to help Nova Roma achieve her goals and objectives? I give
Draco credit, he worked and put in time to help that. What have you done?
> I do not offer these words as complaint. I do not complain. I do
> not even pretend to try.
I disagree your last post was exactly that..a complaint..and even lower in
this post you are doing that again...complaining. Lets look at your next
paragraph. Lets we forget your Motto, "Die Romulus Die."
> I do not believe in the leadership of Nova Roma. I do not have faith
> in the leadership in general. I speak no words of opposition to the
> leaders in particular. Each man and woman in his or her own way
> gives what is possible to each. But, in the greater aggregate, the
> leadership of Nova Roma is a failure. As a group, despite the many
> virtues each member possesses in the individual, Nova Roma's
> leadership cannot lead.
So are you still not complaining? I think you are. And, I will ask you
again...what have you done for Nova Roma. How much money...how much effort
and how much time have you spent trying to build this organization. I think
if you have such feelings you should try to start working toward change.
Start slow...and work up....there is alot of work that needs to be done.
Put your money where your mouth is.
> Flame me if you must.
I am not flaming...but voicing my own opinion...as one of the many leaders
of Nova Roma who you are complaining about.
> A leader is a finger pointing toward the goal. A leader, like a kind
> word to the weary, is timely. the leadership of Nova Roma, in the
> aggregate, is antithesis of practical serendipity.
And? That is what WE the leaders of Nova Roma have done. We developed a
nation where there was not one before. We have built procedures where there
were none before....and Nova Roma has grown from 2 people to 900. I think
you need to reevulate your statements. Do you think you could have done a
better job? I dont think so.
> My friend, Draco, was barely a man.
So? Whats your point...It wasnt the founders that insulted him.
Young, eager, hopeful, as of yet
> uncured of his youthful passions and idealism, he was the model of
> the bright young man.
I will be the first to admit Draco had potential...but I will also admit he
was blinded by hatred and emotion.
He is, in the fullest sense of the word,
> unadulterated.
Oh are we going to proclaim him a saint too?
The world will disabuse him of the vast majority of
> his notions, his dreams, his flights of fancy. Who are we, who claim
> to be his countrymen, his elders, his helping hand in the dark of the
> modern night - who are we to deny him the patience of our longer
> experience?
Whats your point? That some people disregard his opinion..I am sure many
people disregard mine..just as I am sure you will once you start reading my
post.
> Who are our leaders that they have failed to recognize the very
> loyalty (to us!) which compelled him to oppose those aspects of our
> communion with which he could not agree?
What proof and evidence to you have to support this notion. I disagreed
with Draco....and I challenged his accusations..Do we also lack the right to
speak our own minds when we disagree with Sextus Apollonius.
> A traitor goes over to them enemy. Draco drew nearer to us, exposed
> himself, exposed his misgivings, his failings, his mny strengths -
> exposed his words for our most public scrutiny.
What are you talking about here....what enemy...Are you talking about when
Draco falsely accused me of violating the resgination edict...when he stated
he was going to post under a false name....what?
> We, grand collective new rome, we gave him calumny and slander in
> return.
Some people did that..Not the founders.
> No wonder, if we are the generation which moves into the coming
> leadership of the world, that our young seek the darkness furthest
> from our "light."
>
> No wonder that all the sins of the past hundred years find such
> fertile soil in the their blossoming hearts, to corrupt men into
> beasts.
>
> No wonder that the lessons so easily drawn from the conflicts of the
> twentieth century are lost to an entire generation.
Such flowery rehetoric....let me compliment that....though the point is not
made...No founder...no Magistrate insulted Sextus Apollonius...I still see
no proof of your obvious hatred of us, the leaders of Nova Roma.
> No wonder, then, that we have no temples, no land, no hope, and no
> real leadership. The gods abandon us.
I disagree with that assumption. Its because we are a new organization...Do
you just expect the Gods to summon up an island for the express use of Nova
Roma? Please, you have excellent rheotorical skills, but this is laying it
on thickly!
> I call now upon men and women of honor to oppose the leadership of
> Nova Roma. I do not, for the record, call for any revolt. I call
> for the creation of the loyal opposition. I remain in the city,
> loyal to Roma Mater. Indeed, I will not leave her. Neither will I
> yield to overweening power, no matter its legitmacy.
We had that...it was called the Amici Dignitas. When they left, on the Ides
of March they embezzled funds from Nova Roma. When they labelled me a
tyrant for not bringing the laws that the Censors drafted. Now those laws
were brought before the People of Nova Roma....they were passed...now the
remainder of them resigned. Once again..I think you should read the main
list..I have tried to compromise with M. Apollonius....he was
unwilling...the People saw that.
> This day, I sacrfice much goodwill for the honor of a friend.
I think that is noble..but remember what mom used to say. If your friends
were going to jump off a bridge would you too?
I am not as eloquent as my colleagues and friends in Nova Roma. But I felt
I must respond to this post. I hope others who are more eloquently might
respond to this. I think the allegations in this and your previous email
are not correct and I want to at least refute some of your accusations.
Vale,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> So be it.
>
> Iasonvs
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] To Oppius Flaccus |
| From: |
"Pompeia Cornelia" <scriba_forum@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 02:26:51 -0000 |
|
Salve Oppi:
I just sent you and private post and it bounced back. I have the addie
right. Are you having email trouble?
Po
_________________________________________________________________________
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Tapestries... |
| From: |
"Raina Faolan" <GuruPoet@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 May 2001 22:29:35 -0400 |
|
Salve,
Euphemi! Long time no see! Tapestry sounds lovely! Personally if I had the
time and the knowledge, I'd weave the three faces of Trivia (better known as
Hecate). Imagine a crimson background with her in three forms, in a shadowed
aura. Three forms meaning, maiden, mother, and crone. In the middle of this
triad I'd weave a giant Raven, it is said the raven is one of her spirit
animals. I know it sounds dark but I'd love a tapestry of her. Let us know
how it goes, even better send a pic!
Vale Bene,
Aeternia
>From: CmndrZil@--------
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: novaroma@--------
>Subject: [novaroma] Tapestries...
>Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 22:11:20 EDT
>
>Salve,
>
>I have noticed that this list does not have to be dedicated to "politics"
>(vindictiveness, cruelty, politics, same difference), and so I thought I
>would bring up a conversation about tapestries.
>
>I intend to weave a tapestry. I don't know why, I just do. I don't know
>how
>to weave, I guess I could figure that out as it goes along. It seems
>fairly
>simple to me. But, I thought I'd ask, what sort of themes would you
>suggest
>for a tapestry? If you were going to weave a tapestry, what image would
>you
>weave?
>
>Tarquinia Euphemia
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Resignations. Oh well. |
| From: |
gcassiusnerva@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 May 2001 22:36:14 EDT |
|
Salvete
One night a few weeks ago, I saw ex-citizen Piscinus talking about
breaking into the NR voter system, and warned NR about it. Octavius posted
telling us how it would be all but impossible for him to do this. Good news!
Not having any knowledge of how the system works, I saw a threat being made,
and made a public warning.
I would do it again and I have no regrets over it.
That "Rattus" is Piscinus is proven beyond any reasonable doubt and that
proof is with the magistrates.
The next day, the artist formerly known as Sextus Apollonius Draco tries
to take a very personal revenge on both me and Lucius Cornelius Sulla. The
behavior of Piscinus was never of conern to him. He was just throwing his
spear because I found out about it and reported it. He was upset because his
buddy got caught.
But poor Draco forgot something. He forgot that when you light an inferno,
it is best to drop the match with your back to the wind. He did not do this,
and the resulting inferno ended up burning him. He caused great embarassment
to himself and to his gens. Most people but a few diehards saw his pathetic
attempt for what it was.
Almost immediately after this, the Apollonii suffered another major
blow---the passing of both edicts they opposed, in an election which could be
called Nova Roma's referendum of Apollonianism.
They are sore losers, not martyrs.
Nerva
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| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] Tapestries... |
| From: |
"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 May 2001 22:46:52 -0400 |
|
Salve,
Oh the courage! LOL I adore tapestries but truth to tell I gave up on
cross stitch after two hours, I didn't have the patience to stick to it. I
give you massive credit for wanting to tackle weaving.
Hmmmm, now as for designs, lessee. I love Aeternia's idea, although my
Celtic leanings might prefer the Morrigan. :) I also really like the
background fetch-animal idea.......perhaps a stag and a raven for my taste.
I could also see an awesome Norse theme.......all in silver, black, cobalt
blue, etc. Maybe some nice wolves, Thor or Odin.......hmmmmm.
Okay, okay enough rambling from a sleep-deprived woman. :) Germanicus and
have been away al weekend and we have lots of bags and one cranky infant to
unpack yet. Please keep us updated on the progress you make. I'd love to
see what you come up with and hey...if you like it maybe you could teach
some of us how to do it too.
:) Priscilla Vedia Serena
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: To Oppius Flaccus |
| From: |
oppiusflaccus@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 02:50:30 -0000 |
|
Salvete Po et Omnes;
Well what can I say, my Yahoo account seems to be having
significant difficulties at the moment :-) As a temporary
measure, please send all personal correspondence to:
adherbal@--------
Hopefully, the mail issues will be resolved shortly :-)
Gratias multas!
Bene valete,
Oppius
--- In novaroma@--------, "Pompeia Cornelia" <scriba_forum@h...> wrote:
> Salve Oppi:
>
> I just sent you and private post and it bounced back. I have the
addie
> right. Are you having email trouble?
>
> Po
>
______________________________________________________________________
___
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
http://www.hotmail.com.
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] I N S T R U C T I O N S F O R L I F E |
| From: |
"Lucius Equitius" <vze23hw7@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 May 2001 23:29:12 -0400 |
|
Ex Domo Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Omnibus SPD
Last year I passed this around to some of my friends.
I think that these things bear consideration today as much as ever.
----------------------------------------------
This is what The Dalai Lama has to say on the millennium, all it takes is a
few seconds to read and think. Do not keep this message. The mantra must
leave your hands within 96 hours. You will get a very pleasant surprise.
This is true even if you are not superstitious.
I N S T R U C T I O N S F O R L I F E
1. Take into account that great love and great achievements involve great risk.
2. When you lose, don't lose the lesson.
3. Follow the three Rs: Respect for self, Respect for others and
Responsibility for all your actions.
4. Remember that not getting what you want is sometimes a wonderful stroke
of luck.
5. Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.
6. Don't let a little dispute injure a great friendship.
7. When you realize you've made a mistake, take immediate steps to correct it.
8. Spend some time alone every day.
9. Open your arms to change, but don't let go of your values.
10. Remember that silence is sometimes the best answer.
11. Live a good, honorable life. Then when you get older and think back,
you'll be able to enjoy it a second time.
12. A loving atmosphere in your home is the foundation for your life.
13. In disagreements with loved ones, deal only with the current situation.
Don't bring up the past.
14. Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality.
15. Be gentle with the earth.
16. Once a year, go someplace you've never been before.
17. Remember that the best relationship is one in which your love for each
other exceeds your need for each other.
18. Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.
19. Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon.
These words seem to be good and true no matter the Philosophy or source.
Di nos ament.
Valere iubeo
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] HOW TO RESIGN |
| From: |
gcassiusnerva@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 May 2001 23:39:29 EDT |
|
I posted this almost a year ago. I think it is time to re-post it.
This is a form to make public resignations quick and easy. Just cut and
paste and fill in the blanks.
-------------------------------
I am leaving Nova Roma.
I wanted this: {fill in blank}
But I did not get things my way, so I quit. You are a bunch of---{fill in
blank. Use more space if necessary}
I want replies from people asking me not to leave, telling me how smart and
important I am, and how NR will just never be the same without me, so please
inflate my flagging ego by sending sympathy email to my email address, which
is {fill in blank}
Please state any extra gripes, whines, and complaints here.
Sign real name {here}
Ex-Roman name in parenthesis {here}
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Perhaps we should let past comments go, and look toward the future |
| From: |
mansker@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 03:40:27 -0000 |
|
After reading all of the posts today, and learning of the
resignations, I noticed a few things.
Yes, the elections were extremely ascerbic. Yes, people disagreed,
and things were said, both in anger and on purpose.
After seeing all of the resignations today, I noticed that people
were still fighting it out on the lists over the elections, who
called who what name, what people really meant when they said such
and such, etc.
I believe that we should move forward, not backward, and stop the
arguing over who was wrong at what point, and whose behavior was
worse. I would like to think that we have all learned something from
this, and that we will move on, not only a lot sadder and wiser, but
with fewer citizens.
It does no one any good to go over the opinions that caused this
problem over and over again, and to hack apart the resignations so
that we can make them out to be what we want or need them to be.
I would ask that everyone step back, take a deep breath, and agree to
disagree. Having done that, lets get on with building our nation.
Bene
Gaia Flacca Severa
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Tapestries |
| From: |
Bill Gawne <gawne@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 28 May 2001 23:24:52 -0400 |
|
Tarquinia Euphemia dixit:
> I intend to weave a tapestry. I don't know why, I just do. I don't
> know how to weave, I guess I could figure that out as it goes along.
> It seems fairly simple to me.
How do you feel about Hohmann transfer orbit models? If weaving
a tapestry seems fairly simple to you, astrogation might be too,
and I need a good flight dynamics analyst.
> But, I thought I'd ask, what sort of themes would you suggest
> for a tapestry?
A Roman tapestry? The general themes that come to mind are
(a) religious, as Raina Cornelia Aeternia has suggested already;
(b) martial, perhaps showing a triumph passing through the City;
(c) pastoral, something showing the rich countryside of Latium,
with grapevines hanging heavy, and perhaps some sheep or cows
in the middle distance, and a nice villa on a hill.
If you decide to proceed with this idea, I have a friend in the
SCA who weaves. She might be able to suggest some things in terms
of process and technique. You're welcome to contact me privately
if you wish. gawne (at) abs dot net
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] More on Tapestries |
| From: |
"Raina Faolan" <GuruPoet@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 00:12:41 -0400 |
|
Salvete,
Tarquinia, I've been thinking on this some more. So here are a couple
suggestions.
Gemstones: Ever thought about making a tapestry, with gemstones? Examples:
Tanzanite, Iolite, Amethyst, Burmese Rubies, etc.
Perhaps symbolizing elements, made in the material of silk brocade and
some velvet cords here and there.
I also had the idea of maybe a Mythology theme. You know Unicorns, Dragons,
Satyrs, Centaurs, Dryads, Sirens, picture it all in a circle and in the
middle a giant Yin Yang with ocean waves sufacing.
More ideas, I have even more but will stop with these. And good luck again.
Vale Bene,
Aeternia
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Attn argentinos/argentinans Sp./Eng. |
| From: |
octavianuslucius@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 04:26:55 -0000 |
|
Spanish / Español
Salvete.
Para todos aquellos argentinos que todavía están esperando la
ciudadanía de novaroma les ofrezco consultar con los censores sobre
la situación de cada uno. Si les interesa, envíenme un email.
Un saludo cordial
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Propraetor provincia Argentina
English / Inglés
Salvete
This is for all argentinians waiting for approval of their
citizenship. I offer you asking the censors about the situation of
your applications. If you are interested in my offering, please email
me.
Valete bene
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Propraetor provincia Argentina
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: taxation |
| From: |
"Teleri ferch Nyfain" <rckovak@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 00:44:44 -0400 |
|
Salvete,
It is my understanding that the lex just passed does NOT declare anything
about how much money taxes will be, OR how to pay them. I happen to agree
with T. Octavius Pius that none of us should be penalized just because of
where we live. I think that having taxes paid to propraetors who then
forward the money to the central Treasury is a very reasonable one, which
might avoid the problem of surcharges.
And no, the people have NOT spoken on this issue, Atia. The Lex Vedia de
Assidui et Capiti Censi states only "II. Citizens who pay taxes in such
amount and in such manner as may be defined by the Senate shall be
considered assidui" and goes on to define what shall happen to those who
don't pay. It does not state HOW said taxes will be collected.
And T. Octavius stated he went ahead and got a credit card & is waiting to
pay his taxes. So I don't believe anyone has any grounds to accuse him of
trying to avoid taxation.
What I'm curious about is the PayPal problem which T. Octavius hinted at.
Do they require special things for outside the USA? It seems like PayPal
could be very useful in transferring funds from different countries, but I
have to plead total ignorance on this one.
Valete,
Helena Galeria
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: I N S T R U C T I O N S F O R L I F E |
| From: |
Bill Gawne <gawne@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 00:23:22 -0400 |
|
Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus dixit:
> Last year I passed this around to some of my friends.
> I think that these things bear consideration today as much as ever.
>
> ----------------------------------------------
>
> This is what The Dalai Lama has to say on the millennium, [...]
Good as the advice my paterfamilias passed along may be, it did
not come from His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama Tenzin Gyasto.
Interested parties are refered to
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/dalai.htm
Respectfuly,
Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Macronational relationships |
| From: |
bcatfd@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 05:07:22 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, Kristoffer From <kristoffer.from@t...> wrote:
&g--------ca---------------- wro--------/fon--------r>
> > We are a nation, Nova Roma will never be a true state unless it is
> > akin to the Vatican, or more appropriately for comparative
purposes,
> > the Knights of Malta. The Knights of Malta are a sovereign nation
> > with a small international capital (smaller even that the Vatican)
> > with their citizens spread throughout the world. That is in my
>>view what we are striving for in the long run.
> >
> > Our laws do bind us together while recognizing the physical and
> > political realities of the world we live in at the same time. The
> > fact that we can work around those realities is one of our
strengths.
>
> Salve, Iuni Palladi.
Salve T. Octavi,
Continuing this discussion among the latest spate of resignations.
People come, people go in Nova Roma, but the dream and reality of
Nova Roma live on, as do the ideas that fuel it. The numbers of the
resignees will be replaced within weeks...
> Now this image of the future is one I like, at least as a step on
>the way. This is approximately the idea I had in mind, although I'd
>rather consider it an ideological than spiritual "capital". A small
>piece of land, wholly Nova Roman, where our citizens from around the
>world might come and appreciate our theory in practice.
Well, I guess the choice of the term spiritual capital has at its
root the central purpose of any plot of land we acquire, and indeed
of Nova Roma itself, and that is to provide a phyiscal center or
focus point for the Religio Romana. Someday we hope the main temples
of the Gods will be rebuilt and again manned by priests. I also hope
to see the Senate and the Altar of Victory rebuilt and rededicated as
well as the Rostra and a place for the comitia to meet. To me this is
spiritual rather than ideological.
I am curious as to what you meant by "step along the way" though.
> In my opinion, that is indeed "going macronational", and this is the
> future I want us to be prepared for. I'm not saying we should start
> replicating the whole "macronational kit", making our own laws for
> theft, murder, and the entire package, but rather make our laws
> supplementary to, and independant of, those. I.E. our legislation
>stays out of their jurisdiction, and theirs stay out of ours. Again,
>to the age issue. I would rather we had a common Nova Roman age of
>majority,instead of accepting the one for whatever temporal power
>our respective citizens happen to inhabit. However, as I recently
>discussed with Lucius Sicinius Drusus, this might leave us open for
>discrimination charges from a macronation, as long as we are legally
>a part of a macronation, and therefore subject to it's laws.
Even if we go macronational in the sense we are discussing (e.g.
Knights of Malta) we will always be subject to some Macronational
laws, I don't think that can be wholly avoided. Most of us will still
live outside any spiritual capital--I hope just to see it start
to be built within my lifetime.
> This is one of the main reasons I think we should endeavour to "go
> macronational" as soon as possible, so that we will not be held
> accountable in a macronational court for whatever minor part of our
> legislation happens to be counter to that of the macronation in
> question. For instance, isn't it possible for a US citizen below 21
>to sue Nova Roma for age discrimination, because of the cursus
>honorum law denying him/her from running for office before age 21?
Don't see it happening. The US has similar laws itself prohibiting
people under a certain age from running for politcal office
(president for example the minimum age is 35) as well as all other
kind of laws limiting age relating to various activities. Anyway,
with the way international law is going, being a macronation doesn't
protect you anyway. A person can sue organizations in another nation
using the courts in one's own country sometimes. International courts
and bodies can bring actions and suits against macronations. The US
and the UK both gave in to international pressure (I forget now if
the suit was in the UN or what) to forbid 17 year olds from serving
in combat forces. The US and UK both changed their policy. Personally
I thought the US govt should have ignored the presssure and the suit
as it had others but unfortunately in this case it gave in. So, even
being a macronation does not insulate you from other macronational
policy entirely.
> I'm not from the US myself, but I could imagine such a charge being
> made, if not in US, then in some other country where Nova Roma is a
> recognized legal entity. We will be vulnerable for such occurences,
> until we've established ourselves as a true macronation. I don't
>know how this can be implemented, but I agree with you whole-
>heartedly that violence is not the way. Diplomacy and determination
>is the proper way to go about this. Sooner or later, we might gain
>this opportunity, and then we shouldn't hesitate.
Hopefully when the time comes we won't. I am confident Nova Roma will
reach that point.
> This is, I think, still quite a distant future. But that shouldn't
> prevent us from hoping for it, preparing for it, and long for it.
I am in wholehearted agreement with you.
Vale,
Decius Iunius Palladius,
Senator
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Perhaps we should let past comments go, and look toward the future |
| From: |
"Nick R. Ramos Jr." <nramos@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 05:22:48 -0000 |
|
Salvete, Omnes!
OF all the things I have read in the past two hours, I think that
this is the best piece of wisdom I have seen. I left for 24 hours to
deal with my life's necessities during the Ides of March, and all
Hades broke out. I do the same during this weekend, and I come back
to see a full-fledged war going on. I think I had better not leave
ever again, or the Apokalypsis will definitely descend on us... (and
yes, that last part was said with a world of sarcasm dripping from
it - I am not even remotely that important in any scheme of things).
I may disregard this advice myself in what follows, but I have never
been a man of much wisdom or patience myself, and what I am about to
say I cannot hold in any longer. Mea Culpa, et mea apologia for this:
Draco - I am sorry to see you go. I would ask you to remain, but I
cannot because of the abuse heaped on you. I also will say openly
that you did not always behave as a saint. None of us did. You have
talent, enthusiasm, and real potential - and when you left, you chose
to do so with honor and virtue. You elected to leave without
mudslinging and grandstanding - that is why I will miss you terribly.
Although you disagreed with many, you recognized their humanity and
dignity, and chose to praise what was good rather then fling
accusations at others. I can only hope you will reconsider, and hope
that our paths will cross again. May Iuppiter watch over you, and
Mars shield you from your enemies in battle, amici mei.
Nerva - whether you gave us fair and clear warning from a grave
danger to the Res Publica may be argued in many ways. However, the
level of abuse and callousness you have shown here and elsewhere is
appalling. Even if you are right, do you really think that descending
to the level of those you despise is the right answer to them? I am
no fan of Piscinus, especially when he tried to implicate me in a
situation that was extremely negative, claiming to be in
communication with me and having evidence from me in this matter -
WHEN HE AND I HAVE NEVER COMMUNICATED BEYOND A 10 MINUTE CHAT IN THE
TAVERNA. Did I descend to his level? No. I simply refused to engage
in the same type of innuendo and inanity. I may have enjoyed one or
two of your satires, but they have recently become nothing but
undisguised attacks on those who held views opposed to your own.
Personally, I believe that a Censorial Nota might be too good for
you - I do not condone abuse, regardless of the source.
Formosanus - I cannot express the depth of outrage and disbelief I
felt upon reading your resignation. Personally, I would much prefer
to see your talent for rhetoric disposed towards improving the Res
Publica, and less towards the insane and lurid ad hominem attacks you
seem to increasingly adore. "Professional pornographer as pontifex" -
what hipocrisy from a man who accused our magistrates of being
prudish busybodies who were only interested in looking down our
pants. You call us magistrates Nazis, Oligarchs, etc. - I think you
missed all the traditional insults of Roma Antiqua in your list - you
really should include them for effect. I am sick to my heart of
volunteering my time and efforts to try and build something positive
in Nova Roma, to try and learn not only of what goes on in my own
Provincia but in all of Nova Roma, to stand by quietly and have you
smear my name, and that of my fellow magistrates, with mud. As a
philosopher, have you ever encountered the concept of "agreeing to
disagree"? I see little of Seneca and much of Kant in your positions;
and it seems you have made it a "categorical imperative" to destroy
the reputation of those who oppose you.
I miss Vado, for although I disagreed with him on some things, and
felt the sharp bite of his wit when this "Puerto Rican hayseed with
bad Latin" fudged up "who watches the watchmen?", he at least had the
courtesy of discussing ideas, not personalities. I will miss Draco
for the same reason, although I am hoping that he will reconsider his
decision to leave. If there is a lesson to be learned here, in my
opinion, it is that inflexibility of any stripe is not conducent to
nation-building. We can also learn that not taking a definite stand
on anything encourages some people to abuse their rhetorical ability
to the point that they create a veritable Hades out of anything they
get involved in.
I stand by my words and my deeds - and I welcome anyone to differ
with them. That is your right as a Nova Roman. However, if you only
intend to go the ad hominem route, do so privately to
tengu@-------- and be advised that I can and will be as nasty as
you care to be - 35 years on this planet have definitely made me an
ornery cuss. I have been shot at and stabbed at in anger, so words
really won't do much to this thick hide. If you wish to discuss
ideas, and work towards making our ideals a reality, you will find in
me a willing and earnest partner.
Optime valete, et Iuppiter nos protegas!
Marius Cornelius Scipio
Aedilis Curulis
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Perhaps we should let past comments go, and look toward th... |
| From: |
gcassiusnerva@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 01:34:21 EDT |
|
"However, the
level of abuse and callousness you have shown here and elsewhere is
appalling."
What abuse?
". I may have enjoyed one or
two of your satires, but they have recently become nothing but
undisguised attacks on those who held views opposed to your own."
1. Are you saying I should attack those who views identical to my own? Is
there any sense in that?
So before you speak to notas and such, tell me please what abuse?
Nerva
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Draco attacked? |
| From: |
gcassiusnerva@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 02:22:08 EDT |
|
Salvete,
In his lament over Draco's resignation, M. Octavius Germanicus complains
that I abused Draco in my parody of Gladiator. He says, "He {Draco} was the
subject of a vicious parody... This puerile and insipid work features a
character known as "Puellarius" who is a "devoted and brainwashed follower"
of Draco's paterfamilias,
supports communism and is made to utter the line 'I love male asses'."
The Puellarius character is not Draco. Octavius *could* have asked me
directly if he was, but he never bothered. The Puellarius character was
inspired by the obsession of the Amici Dignitatis with 'sexual minorities' to
use Formosanus' own term. However, he is not Draco.
1. When Nova Romans were used as characters, their Nova Roma names were used.
2. Puellarius was the fictional son of Flaccus, and was not an Apollonii.
The only Apollonii to appear was 'Senator Formosanus', as the counter-part to
Derek Jacobi's character in the movie. Draco did not appear at all.
Draco, incidentally, used me as a murderous assasin in his Mars story before
work on Gladiator--NR was even begun. And so what?
Gladiator--The Nova Roma Version was a parody of Roman movies *and* of events
in Nova Roma. Was I mean to the poor AD crowd? I do not think so. After
all, my own Paterfamilias was in the role of the evil emperor. My
materfamilias was in the role of a power hungry would-be queen. I portrayed
myself as a lunatic and make fun of my previous writing. Sinicius Drusus was
the slaver. Oppius Flaccus a brave but clumsy and bungling general. Quintus
Sertorius, another friend of mine as a traiter to Flaccus. Aeternia is a
slave girl who dies horribly. Come on Octavius....EVERYONE comes out
abnormal in this story.
I am also not the only one here to write satire. Do check out Appia Claudia
Labiena's work sometime. Mine is just a bit more blunt.
Gaius Cassius Nerva
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Tapestries... |
| From: |
alexanderprobus@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 08:00:02 -0000 |
|
Salvete
Just a short note from me. I am sorry for jumping into your
discussion.
The size and coloures may to depend on where you want to hang this
tapestry, what kind of lighting you have there and where from it
comes. As for the themes... frankly, I would prefer something
different from Hecate and in any case nothing connected with
wolves,or these cruel Nordic Gods (my stereotypes, I am sorry). What
about something like the motives on greec ceramic like sportive
games. Or simply try to get inspiration from ancien coins. Some of
them have lovely images.
Bene vale
Alexander
>
> Hmmmm, now as for designs, lessee. I love Aeternia's idea,
although my
> Celtic leanings might prefer the Morrigan. :) I also really like
the
> background fetch-animal idea.......perhaps a stag and a raven for
my taste.
> I could also see an awesome Norse theme.......all in silver, black,
cobalt
> blue, etc. Maybe some nice wolves, Thor or Odin.......hmmmmm.
>
> Okay, okay enough rambling from a sleep-deprived woman. :)
Germanicus and
> have been away al weekend and we have lots of bags and one cranky
infant to
> unpack yet. Please keep us updated on the progress you make. I'd
love to
> see what you come up with and hey...if you like it maybe you could
teach
> some of us how to do it too.
>
> :) Priscilla Vedia Serena
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|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] One More Resignation |
| From: |
Kanat Elibol <kelibol@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 12:05:06 +0300 |
|
Ave frater...
I think that you need some time to reconsider your opinions and
especially the manner
you express those...from the tone of your post it is clear that though
you've read my 'annoying!
posts you've not learned anything from them...it is not a bad
thing!I'm learning something new
from everyone here...so I humbly suggest that you should do the
same...because this was
exactly what drove so many worthy people away from us!Don't be a part
of the problem..be a
part of the sollution!
And if living in the real world means that we should be
intolereant,abusive,rude and blind
you're right...I prefer another one!
However...this is the main list...and I've no intention to start
a 'family fight' here...
It is clear that we have different opinions on political and
social issues...so if you want to
continue using your catapults on me please do this privately!
For,who knows,maybe we can reach an agreement!You see it is not
that hard to offer a
hand!Try this...you'll be surprised!
Vale bene
Publius Sentius Rutilianus Dexion
rapax@--------
PS: I hope that this time you like my 'dribble'!For
I'm an expert on this :))))
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Ave Publius Sentius Rutilianus Dexion
>
>This matter had been discussed on numerous occasions prior to the vote - the
>fact that some citizens wish to continue the discussion or better yet -
>make grandiose resignations - is distracting us from moving on to bigger
>things - yes I do believe the Republic is now more suited fro growth as it
>now has the infrastructure to gain income...but some us cannot understand
>that - are you one of these...
>
>Perhaps I am short sighted but we all most live in the real world.
>
>Stupid sarcasm by the way never does sit well with me - could you have come
>up with something better than the dribble that you just posted...
>
>Marcus Sentius Claudius
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Kanat Elibol [mailto:kelibol@--------]
>Sent: Monday, 28 May 2001 11:58 Pm
>To: novaroma@--------
>Subject: RE: [novaroma] One More Resignation
>
>
>
>
> Salve frater....
> I'm glad for you that you've such a 'simple and quick'
>sollutions for every matter...this
> will surely give you some peace of mind and a good place in the res
>publica....
> I just wish that I and some other cives could've such a fine
>short sight about the
> future of the NR...!
> Vale bene....
> Publius Sentius Rutilianus Dexion
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>--------------------------------------------
> >Oh for the sake of the Gods let it rest - what is done is done - accept the
> >simple fact that the law has been passed and the Citizens have spoken !!!
> >
> >Marcus Sentius Claudius
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
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>
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] When the village empties, look for the headman |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 02:22:34 -0700 |
|
Ave,
I waited hours to respond to this so that I could respond civilly to
this post. I hope that this was successful.
iasonvs_serenvs@-------- wrote:
>
> Salvete.
>
> When the village empties, and the bells ring not, look for the
> headman. Wonder aloud, within earshot of his house, if maybe his
> head is too big for the man.
You do have a wonderful way with rhetoric, but lets not overlook the
very obvious fact. 6 citizens left NR. This leave NR 900 citizens.
So, lets keep the rhetoric in check please. Nova Roma adds almost 6
people a week.
> I suppose the "mommy" will warn me again for this, but I will not
> refrain from defending my friend.
The List moderator already responded to this.
> I did not agree with Draco on every subject.
I do not think anyone has agreed with Draco..or for that matter with me
as well.
I do not share the body
> of experiences and memories that inform his view of the world.
That is the same with all of us...we are all unique individuals and
bring unique perspectives to Nova Roma.
I
> have had the luxury (and oh how rich we are...) of growing up on this
> side of the pond.
I am sure you will have Europeans say that they have had the luxury to
grow up on their side of the Pond as well. They have the history, the
culture and probably many other advantages I cannot think of currently,
as it is about 3 am here.
The worst government scandals of which we
> Americans are aware, generally, involve:
> 1. A president and his silly little penis
> 2. A president and his misguided loyal to
> "friends"
> 3. A president who broke his word and the law
> to secure the release of hostages
> 4. 555 various politicians routinely lying to
> us while we approve and applaud them for
> it
So, whats your point? I do remember the Gulf War (I was 19) and there
were rumors of setting up draft boards...etc...I am sure others older
than I will remember sending troops to Beirut...or Vietnam? Or the
Hostage Crisis.. Please lets get realistic here...every nation has had
its own crisis to deal with. And your list makes it out that we do not
have any serious issues....and that I personally resent.
> Our European brothers have a rather different history than our own,
> and consequently, see the world differently than we do. As for those
> who are about to flame me, the above are GENERALIZATIONS. No, that
> was not yelling.
Well your generalizations are very much inadequate, execpt they serve
your agenda. Which follows below:
> We have never had a Franco, a Mussolini, A Stalin, A Cauecescu
> (sic?), A moustach'd little bigot...we have had no reason to develop
> their level of cynicism vis-a-vis government.
No we might not..but we did send Americans to fight Franco (Remember
Ernest Hemingway's book on the subject), We fought in World War Two
against Mussolini and Hitler. There are other things I could say in
respons to this, but if you would like a more thorough history lesson
please contact me offlist.
> Incidentally, our roman brothers did - hence the tribunate, eraticus
> magentas, and the like.
I do not understand your meaning here.
> When a man like Draco leaves us, it is no longer merely a matter of
> discontent.
What else is it. No one forced him to leave...no one but himself typed
up his resignation. No one held a gun to his head and compelled him to
take that action? Or am I wrong? I do not see how Sextus Apollonius
was treated in any worse way than most of us in Nova Roma. How was
Sextus Apollonius treated differently than myself, Consul Germancius,
Praetor Fabius, Consul Cassius, Censor Equitius?
Every day he lent his voice to the forum.
So do many of us, but you do not see us resigning when we do not get our
way. Or when the People disagree with his political views.
Every day he
> tried, agree with him or not, to lend his own experience to the
> weight of our own.
Yes just as we all do. Yet we do not resign when we do not get our way.
He bared his creative attempts to our scrutiny,
> and left his poetry on our electronic doorsteps.
And many many people compliemented his work and even rewarded it with
due recognition.
He revealed himself
> to us. He offered his frank, sincere and unredacted opinions to the
> PUBLIC forum for PUBLIC scrutiny.
Which we all do. Everyday in Nova Roma. And we do not resign when we
do not get our way.
He did not, despite the sometimes
> intemperate passion so common and so admirable in youth, recoil from
> the daily ABUSE, as the Propraetor of the Great Lakes so succintly
> stated.
Actually he did. He resigned. As was his right. But lets get the
facts correct please.
> When the willing inhabitant departs the city, know truly that the rot
> from the center expands.
Such rhetoric. Beyond the rhetoric..what proof do you offer to
substaniate the charges?
> If our magistrates cannot, as Gnaeus Salix Astur noted, act as Romans
> would, and care for so willing and eager a young man as Draco, maybe
> it is time for an interrex.
What magistrates are guilty of such action..and what evidence to you
submit. This is the same problem Sextus Apollonius had..when he laid
accuastions that I violated the resignation edict. But, you have done
worse. Sextus had SOME facts....but not all of them and consequently
when he exposed the "conspiracy" he was wrong. The main target of his
conspiracy evolved around the fact that he THOUGHT (no proof, but
thought) that I did it. I did not. Was he man enough to admit his
mistake and apologize for impugning my dignitas? No. Does that speak
to his maturity. I think so. But that is just my opinion. You accuse
the magistrates and do not submit ANY evidence of wrong doing. In that
light I hold Sextus Apollonius in more esteem than you.
> Ser Oppius, I hear your words. I too admire founders, builders,
> creators. I too, as Ayn Rand once said, despise the secondhanders.
> Ser Oppius, my friend, history too has her voice...after the
> foundation of the city is completed, Romulus must die for Rome to
> prosper. Rome is built, the Sabines are coming. Die, Romulus, Die.
It does not sound like you admire the founders and builders. Read your
previous paragraph and your following email. I think you are either
lying then..or lying now. Which is it? And, I will not forget the
notable quote, Die Romulus Die. I am sure others will not forget that,
as well.
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: When the village empties, look for the headman |
| From: |
"Gaius Marcius Coriolanus" <coriolanus@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 11:29:25 -0000 |
|
Ave
just a little remark
iasonvs_serenvs@-------- wrote:
> > We have never had a Franco, a Mussolini, A Stalin, A Cauecescu
> > (sic?), A moustach'd little bigot...we have had no reason to
develop
> > their level of cynicism vis-a-vis government.
Lucius Corn--------s Sulla F-------- <al--------us@--------> wrot--------r>
> No we might not..but we did send Americans to fight Franco (Remember
> Ernest Hemingway's book on the subject), We fought in World War Two
> against Mussolini and Hitler. There are other things I could say in
> respons to this, but if you would like a more thorough history
lesson
> please contact me offlist.
Yes, you fought in WW2 but front line had never gone through your
home.
You have just offered some history lessons so I'm sure you know
something about Munchen agreement.
So don't want me to trust foreign goverments when I don't trust to my
own.
Vale
Gaius Marcius Coriolanus
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: When the village empties, look for the headman |
| From: |
"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 12:12:38 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, "Gaius Marcius Coriolanus" <coriolanus@c...>
wrote:
>
> Ave
> just a little remark
>
> iasonvs_serenvs@-------- wrote:
>
> > > We have never had a Franco, a Mussolini, A Stalin, A Cauecescu
> > > (sic?), A moustach'd little bigot...we have had no reason to
> develop
> > > their level of cynicism vis-a-vis government.
>
> Lucius Corn--------s Sulla F-------- <al--------us@--------> wrot--------font>
>
> > No we might not..but we did send Americans to fight Franco
(Remember
> > Ernest Hemingway's book on the subject), We fought in World War
Two
> > against Mussolini and Hitler. There are other things I could say
in
> > respons to this, but if you would like a more thorough history
> lesson
> > please contact me offlist.
>
>
> Yes, you fought in WW2 but front line had never gone through your
> home.
> You have just offered some history lessons so I'm sure you know
> something about Munchen agreement.
> So don't want me to trust foreign goverments when I don't trust to
my
> own.
>
> Vale
> Gaius Marcius Coriolanus
Salve,
Do not make the mistake of thinking that the USA is unaware of the
horrors of a modern war fought on your homeland.
The First modern war was the US Civil war, so that is a lesson we
learned before Europe did. The City I was born in was destroyed when
the front line swept through it 80 years before the battles of WWII.
Vale,
L. Sicinius Drusus
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Europeans and Resignations |
| From: |
"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 06:07:46 -0700 (PDT) |
|
--- Marcus Cassius Julianus <cassius622@-------->
wrote:
> --- In novaroma@--------, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
&g--------l--------alens.h@--------&g--------/fon--------r>
> wrote:
> > To all citizens of Nova Roma I say:
> > Is there a tendency that a lot of Europeans leave,
> if so? Why?
> >Maybe Nova Roma must reconsider its approach to
> debattes and
> >relations between citizens. I don't say that the
> Europeans are
> >leaving, but "I have a bad feeling about this"!
>
> Salve,
>
> This is a question that has interested me as well. I
> do believe that
> Nova Roma has had at least a moderately higher
> percentage of European
> Citizens resign, than Citizens from other areas.
>
> Since I live in America I can't truly say I
> understand the situation
> fully. However I'll at least hazard a couple of
> thoughts for
> discussion...
>
Salve Consul,
I would like to add an item to your list. The
differences in the types of Macronational Governments
that the European Citizens are familar with, compared
to the type of Government Americans are used to.
In the Parlamentry system it isn't unusual for a
minister to resign his post to protest an action of
the government, or even for a group of ministers to
resign in order to bring down a government, and force
elections.
Could this tradition of Paralamentary resignations
have caused many Europeans to look at resigning
diferntly than North Americans do?
I would like to hear from our European Citizens on
this matter.
Vale,
L. Sicinius Drusus
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Tapestries... |
| From: |
"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 13:59:16 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, CmndrZil@a... wrote:
> Salve,
>
> I have noticed that this list does not have to be dedicated
to "politics"
> (vindictiveness, cruelty, politics, same difference), and so I
thought I
> would bring up a conversation about tapestries.
>
> I intend to weave a tapestry. I don't know why, I just do. I
don't know how
> to weave, I guess I could figure that out as it goes along. It
seems fairly
> simple to me. But, I thought I'd ask, what sort of themes would
you suggest
> for a tapestry? If you were going to weave a tapestry, what image
would you
> weave?
>
> Tarquinia Euphemia
Salve,
I would find a site that had wall paintings from pompeii, find one
that I really liked, and reproduce it in the tapestry.
Vale,
L. Sicinius Drusus
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Europeans and Resignations |
| From: |
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 16:06:16 +0200 |
|
>Salve Consul,
>
>I would like to add an item to your list. The
>differences in the types of Macronational Governments
>that the European Citizens are familar with, compared
>to the type of Government Americans are used to.
>
>In the Parlamentry system it isn't unusual for a
>minister to resign his post to protest an action of
>the government, or even for a group of ministers to
>resign in order to bring down a government, and force
>elections.
>
>Could this tradition of Paralamentary resignations
>have caused many Europeans to look at resigning
>diferntly than North Americans do?
>
>I would like to hear from our European Citizens on
>this matter.
>
>Vale,
>L. Sicinius Drusus
Salve Honorable Lucius Sicinius Drusus!
You really may have a point here. There is never any talk of oaths here in
Sweden. I am quite sure that there are oaths taken, but they are never
talked about. I think it is possible to say that many Europeans, at least
Swedes, are not used to oaths and may not have been taught to respect them.
Yes politicians in some European countries seem to use resigning as a
political instrument of political conflict.
This was what I meant when I asked " Is there a tendency that a lot of
Europeans leave, if so? Why?" I we can explain, we can avoid, I think. I
think it may be easier for Americans to analyze the Europeans and vice
versa. So we do need each other. ;-)
Vale
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus
The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
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"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
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************************************************
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************************************************
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************************************************
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Europeans and Resignations |
| From: |
"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 14:21:33 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@t...>
wrote:
>
> >Salve Consul,
> >
> >I would like to add an item to your list. The
> >differences in the types of Macronational Governments
> >that the European Citizens are familar with, compared
> >to the type of Government Americans are used to.
> >
> >In the Parlamentry system it isn't unusual for a
> >minister to resign his post to protest an action of
> >the government, or even for a group of ministers to
> >resign in order to bring down a government, and force
> >elections.
> >
> >Could this tradition of Paralamentary resignations
> >have caused many Europeans to look at resigning
> >diferntly than North Americans do?
> >
> >I would like to hear from our European Citizens on
> >this matter.
> >
> >Vale,
> >L. Sicinius Drusus
>
>
> Salve Honorable Lucius Sicinius Drusus!
>
> You really may have a point here. There is never any talk of oaths
here in
> Sweden. I am quite sure that there are oaths taken, but they are
never
> talked about. I think it is possible to say that many Europeans, at
least
> Swedes, are not used to oaths and may not have been taught to
respect them.
> Yes politicians in some European countries seem to use resigning as
a
> political instrument of political conflict.
>
> This was what I meant when I asked " Is there a tendency that a lot
of
> Europeans leave, if so? Why?" I we can explain, we can avoid, I
think. I
> think it may be easier for Americans to analyze the Europeans and
vice
> versa. So we do need each other. ;-)
>
> Vale
>
> Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Salve,
So part of this problem may be cultural. Americans tend to look a
resignations as dereliction of duty, while at least some Europeans
look at them as an accepted form of policital protest.
Drusus
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Perhaps we should let past comments go, and look toward the future |
| From: |
rckovak@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 14:50:13 -0000 |
|
Salvete omnes,
I can only say, Hear Hear to Marius Cornelius Scipio's post. He sums
up my feelings on these resignations succinctly.
We need to be more humane in our political discussions, and we need
to be more open about our dislike of those posts which stoop to name-
calling and other ad hominem tactics.
As they say, hindsight is 20/20/
Valete bene,
Helena Galeria
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] When the villages empties .... |
| From: |
Michel Loos <loos@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 10:47:11 -0300 (BRT) |
|
On Tue, 29 May 2001, Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix wrote:
> Ave,
>=20
> I waited hours to respond to this so that I could respond civilly to
> this post. I hope that this was successful.
>=20
> iasonvs_serenvs@-------- wrote:
> >=20
> > Salvete.
> >=20
> > When the village empties, and the bells ring not, look for the
> > headman. Wonder aloud, within earshot of his house, if maybe his
> > head is too big for the man.
>=20
> You do have a wonderful way with rhetoric, but lets not overlook the
> very obvious fact. 6 citizens left NR. This leave NR 900 citizens.=20
> So, lets keep the rhetoric in check please. Nova Roma adds almost 6
> people a week.=20
> =20
> > I suppose the "mommy" will warn me again for this, but I will not
> > refrain from defending my friend.
>=20
> The List moderator already responded to this.
>=20
> > I did not agree with Draco on every subject.=20
>=20
> I do not think anyone has agreed with Draco..or for that matter with me
> as well.
>=20
> I do not share the body
> > of experiences and memories that inform his view of the world. =20
>=20
> That is the same with all of us...we are all unique individuals and
> bring unique perspectives to Nova Roma.
>=20
> I
> > have had the luxury (and oh how rich we are...) of growing up on this
> > side of the pond. =20
>=20
> I am sure you will have Europeans say that they have had the luxury to
> grow up on their side of the Pond as well. They have the history, the
> culture and probably many other advantages I cannot think of currently,
> as it is about 3 am here.
>=20
> The worst government scandals of which we
> > Americans are aware, generally, involve:
> > 1. A president and his silly little penis
> > 2. A president and his misguided loyal to
> > "friends"
> > 3. A president who broke his word and the law
> > to secure the release of hostages
> > 4. 555 various politicians routinely lying to
> > us while we approve and applaud them for
> > it
>=20
> So, whats your point? I do remember the Gulf War (I was 19) and there
> were rumors of setting up draft boards...etc...I am sure others older
> than I will remember sending troops to Beirut...or Vietnam? Or the
> Hostage Crisis.. Please lets get realistic here...every nation has had
> its own crisis to deal with. And your list makes it out that we do not
> have any serious issues....and that I personally resent. =20
>
Salve,
All those facts occured outside of your country and are no political
facts. Of course you had serious problems, the largest of all: Civil War.
the struggle for civil rights for all (1 century after it). The difference
is not so much in history then in keeping the memory. Few of the european
citizens of NovaRoma lived under one of the dictators that were cited but
they still are part of our conscience, while it seems that neither
Lincoln, neither M. Luther King nor their opponents are still living in
the conscience of the US citizens.
> > Our European brothers have a rather different history than our own,
> > and consequently, see the world differently than we do. As for those
> > who are about to flame me, the above are GENERALIZATIONS. No, that
> > was not yelling.
>=20
> Well your generalizations are very much inadequate, execpt they serve
> your agenda. Which follows below:
> =20
> > We have never had a Franco, a Mussolini, A Stalin, A Cauecescu
> > (sic?), A moustach'd little bigot...we have had no reason to develop
> > their level of cynicism vis-a-vis government.
>=20
> No we might not..but we did send Americans to fight Franco (Remember
> Ernest Hemingway's book on the subject),=20
That's a total misrepresentation, you did not send any americans.
Some americans voluntarely joined the international brigades (mostly
communist and anrachist) in order to fight fascism. The USA as a nation
(just like France and GB) stayed totally still and did not defend the
republic in Spain.
> We fought in World War Two
> against Mussolini and Hitler.=20
They declared war against the USA. Even after Pearl Harbour the USA did
not enter the war against the Fascists, they waited for Germany and Italy
to declare war against them (nearly a full week).
> There are other things I could say in
> respons to this, but if you would like a more thorough history lesson
> please contact me offlist.
> =20
> > Incidentally, our roman brothers did - hence the tribunate, eraticus
> > magentas, and the like.
>=20
> I do not understand your meaning here. =20
> =20
> > When a man like Draco leaves us, it is no longer merely a matter of
> > discontent. =20
>=20
> What else is it. No one forced him to leave...no one but himself typed
> up his resignation. No one held a gun to his head and compelled him to
> take that action? Or am I wrong? I do not see how Sextus Apollonius
> was treated in any worse way than most of us in Nova Roma. How was
> Sextus Apollonius treated differently than myself, Consul Germancius,
> Praetor Fabius, Consul Cassius, Censor Equitius?
>=20
> Every day he lent his voice to the forum. =20
>=20
> So do many of us, but you do not see us resigning when we do not get our
> way. Or when the People disagree with his political views.
>
For the moment you got always your way, we have still to see you loose
a battle, after that we can compare.
> Every day he
> > tried, agree with him or not, to lend his own experience to the
> > weight of our own. =20
>=20
> Yes just as we all do. Yet we do not resign when we do not get our way.
>=20
> He bared his creative attempts to our scrutiny,
> > and left his poetry on our electronic doorsteps. =20
>=20
> And many many people compliemented his work and even rewarded it with
> due recognition.
>=20
> He revealed himself
> > to us. He offered his frank, sincere and unredacted opinions to the
> > PUBLIC forum for PUBLIC scrutiny. =20
>=20
> Which we all do. Everyday in Nova Roma. And we do not resign when we
> do not get our way.
>=20
> He did not, despite the sometimes
> > intemperate passion so common and so admirable in youth, recoil from
> > the daily ABUSE, as the Propraetor of the Great Lakes so succintly
> > stated.
>=20
> Actually he did. He resigned. As was his right. But lets get the
> facts correct please.
> =20
> > When the willing inhabitant departs the city, know truly that the rot
> > from the center expands.
>=20
> Such rhetoric. Beyond the rhetoric..what proof do you offer to
> substaniate the charges?
> =20
> > If our magistrates cannot, as Gnaeus Salix Astur noted, act as Romans
> > would, and care for so willing and eager a young man as Draco, maybe
> > it is time for an interrex.
>=20
> What magistrates are guilty of such action..and what evidence to you
> submit. This is the same problem Sextus Apollonius had..when he laid
> accuastions that I violated the resignation edict. But, you have done
> worse. Sextus had SOME facts....but not all of them and consequently
> when he exposed the "conspiracy" he was wrong.
Please Sulla, you won the juridical battle that does not mean you were
right, you refused to make a declaration on your honour on this point,
and the strange coincidence of two people getting a date wrong the exact
same way (mistaking summer for autumn) does not convince everybody.
> The main target of his
> conspiracy evolved around the fact that he THOUGHT (no proof, but
> thought) that I did it. I did not. Was he man enough to admit his
> mistake and apologize for impugning my dignitas? No. Does that speak
> to his maturity. I think so. But that is just my opinion. You accuse
> the magistrates and do not submit ANY evidence of wrong doing. In that
> light I hold Sextus Apollonius in more esteem than you.
> =20
> > Ser Oppius, I hear your words. I too admire founders, builders,
> > creators. I too, as Ayn Rand once said, despise the secondhanders.
> > Ser Oppius, my friend, history too has her voice...after the
> > foundation of the city is completed, Romulus must die for Rome to
> > prosper. Rome is built, the Sabines are coming. Die, Romulus, Die.
>=20
> It does not sound like you admire the founders and builders. Read your
> previous paragraph and your following email. I think you are either
> lying then..or lying now. Which is it? And, I will not forget the
> notable quote, Die Romulus Die. I am sure others will not forget that,
> as well.
>=20
In ancient ideals it was an honour for the founder/legislator of a city
to retire after he laid the constitution of a city in order for him to=20
see how it works without him (the mythical greek legislators are supposed
to do this, Diocletian did this). Not withdrawing at that point (after the
constitution/ basic laws) were promulgated was the mark of the tyrants.
The dictator that promulgated our present constitution and basic laws
retired lawfully but could not resist in coming back as consul (correctly
elected) because he seems unable to let his (re)creation live its own
life.
Vale,
Manius Villius Limitanus
> Respectfully,
>=20
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>=20
> =20
>=20
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/=
=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
Pr. Michel Loos | Phone: 55 11 818 3810 p. 216
Inst. de Quimica USP | Fax: 55 11 815 5579
PO Box 26077 05599-970 S=E3o Paulo, S SP
Brazil
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Once a Roman... |
| From: |
"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 17:46:16 +0200 |
|
Salvete Quirites,
Even though I had not expected to say these words; after so much kind comments and feelings of friendship expressed, how could I ignore the call of Roma? Once a Roman, always a Roman, I suppose. Gratias maximas ago, amicis meis!
Valete bene!
Sextus Apollonius Draco
"Jeder für sich, und Gott gegen allen."
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Analysis of the problems in Nova Roma (long) |
| From: |
"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 18:50:17 +0200 |
|
Salvete Quirites,
I think recently some excellent points have been made by Consul Cassius about the cause of so much political dispute here in NR. It is true that every man or woman judges political terms by the way they're used in his or her macronation. But all that said and done, one cannot deny the obvious rightist tendencies of the government and the Senate. Over here in Belgium, the government is usually made up of compromise parties, while the more leftist or rightist parties only get in the government once in a while. And the extreme parties don't at all. A tension exists between opposition and government, and this if fairly natural. Thus, the same happens here.
BUT the grand problem is that, while in normal, democratic macronation, power shifts regulary, this hasn't happened yet over here, because many of the founding fathers were pretty much rightist in their views, and have held key positions for the past three years now. This enabled them to steer the res publica about the way they wanted it (as a collective of compromises, not as a conspiracy or a plot). The reason why these people continue to hold these positions, is because (a) people respect the founders, (b) still too few people are active here and (c) they are in a much better position to squelch and defeat the opposition (they have more century points, more contacts, more authority and more whatnot).
So, without attaching any connotation to the word, there most definately IS an oligarchy in NR. As has been pointed out, only one out of the six higher magistrates is a pretty new face, while the rest are the old faithfuls. While their work and dedication is invaluable, I think some of them begin to see things in the wrong perspective when they say "nothing is wrong with our respublica" when citizens start leaving them who had been in the opposition previously, or when they pretend to listen to the people but push through the legislation as they like it. Granted, the people voted it in, but then again there was no alternative.
Many people favour a so-so-law above no law at all. If these people (the aforementioned "oligarchy") would like NR to become a dynamic and evolving nation, and not a one-way path that grows narrower and narrower, my advice would be, to show their goodwill, that they not run for elections this year, or at least not for the high magistracies. Currently Quaestor, but former Consul, Marcus Minucius Audens, has shown that he can do this, and it makes him an honourable man. I am sure the rest is able to follow his example, too. If all of you say that we are so bad, at least give us a decent chance to prove the contrary.
And yes, I am still in that bloody left wing. Count me in, Australice.
Valete bene,
Sextus Apollonius Draco
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Is Draco Puellarius? |
| From: |
"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 18:50:23 +0200 |
|
Salvete Novaromani,
First off, I don't object of being put in a satire, not even as a gay crossdresser. It's so ludicrous nobody would believe it anyway. However, to say that Puellarius is not me is, I think, a far fetch. Does Formosanus have any other "follower", 18 years of age, and a signee (and orator) about the Amici Dignitatis statement and its values? I think not. Besides, in the true Gladiator story, there is no character even remotely like Pueallarius. Added proof: when Nerva/Festus posted his AD libel under the guise of Deformosanus, Formosanus and I were the only Amici mentioned.
So, for a recap: I don't mind being put in a satire (in fact, I was amused), but please don't lie about it; and I would suggest you find other ways of making your political preferences known.
Valete!
Draco
"Jeder für sich, und Gott gegen allen."
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Once a Roman... |
| From: |
"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 17:27:21 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, "S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@p...>
wrote:
> Salvete Quirites,
>
> Even though I had not expected to say these words; after so much
kind comments and feelings of friendship expressed, how could I
ignore the call of Roma? Once a Roman, always a Roman, I suppose.
Gratias maximas ago, amicis meis!
>
> Valete bene!
> Sextus Apollonius Draco
>
>
> "Jeder für sich, und Gott gegen allen."
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Welcome Back!!
Drusus
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] In response to Censor Sulla |
| From: |
"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 18:27:08 +0200 |
|
Salve O Censor,
I just wanted to comment a few of your comments to Iasonus Serenus.
<< I will be the first to admit Draco had potential...but I will also admit he
was blinded by hatred and emotion. >>
As for the former comment, thank you. As for the latter, it's untrue. In my entire life I have never hated anybody. I am a sensitive person, yes, but so are you, so that's no real thing to complain about, is it?
<< Such flowery rehetoric....let me compliment that....though the point is not
made...No founder...no Magistrate insulted Sextus Apollonius...I still see
no proof of your obvious hatred of us, the leaders of Nova Roma. >>
I take exception. As it has been made clear, some people in top positions or of some allure (not litterally leaders, but belonging to the vocal elite) did call me names I did not like. Don't start about friends of mine calling you Swilla behind your back, please. That was in response to something entirely different.
<< We had that...it was called the Amici Dignitas. When they left, on the Ides of March they embezzled funds from Nova Roma. >>
Since I terminated the Dignitas Forum, the list of Amici isn't there anymore to check it, but of the nine or ten Amici, four left, and only one of them is said to be engaged in embezzlement. Which is yet to be proven. What counts for me, counts for you too, O Censor. Proof!
<< When they labelled me a tyrant for not bringing the laws that the Censors drafted. >>
I never said this.
<< Now those laws were brought before the People of Nova Roma....they were passed...now the remainder of them resigned. Once again..I think you should read the main list..I have tried to compromise with M. Apollonius....he was unwilling...the People saw that. >>
And you seem to have ignored the good things Formosanus said about you. Compromise has failed, because Formosanus thought it was pretty much impossible.
Vale bene,
Draco
"Jeder für sich, und Gott gegen allen."
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Once a Roman... |
| From: |
darkelf@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 17:29:52 -0000 |
|
Salve Draco:
Glad to see you back!
P. Clodia Cinnabari
--- In novaroma@--------, "S. Apollonius Draco"
<hendrik.meuleman@--------> wrote:
> Salvete Quirites,
>
> Even though I had not expected to say these words; after so
much kind comments and feelings of friendship expressed, how
could I ignore the call of Roma? Once a Roman, always a
Roman, I suppose. Gratias maximas ago, amicis meis!
>
> Valete bene!
> Sextus Apollonius Draco
>
>
> "Jeder für sich, und Gott gegen allen."
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Tapestries... |
| From: |
Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 10:42:36 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Salvete omnes; et salve, Tarquinia.
--- CmndrZil@-------- wrote:
> Salve,
>
> I have noticed that this list does not have to be dedicated to
> "politics"
> (vindictiveness, cruelty, politics, same difference), and so I
> thought I
> would bring up a conversation about tapestries.
Sounds pretty interesting to me.
> I intend to weave a tapestry. I don't know why, I just do. I don't
> know how
> to weave, I guess I could figure that out as it goes along. It seems
> fairly
> simple to me. But, I thought I'd ask, what sort of themes would you
> suggest
> for a tapestry? If you were going to weave a tapestry, what image
> would you
> weave?
Why not religious scenes? But beware, you could face Aracne's destiny.
;-)
=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.
__________________________________________________
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Once a Roman... |
| From: |
=?iso-8859-1?q?Marcos=20Boehme?= <marminius@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 14:37:50 -0300 (ART) |
|
Salve
Welcome to Nova Roma.
Back to the work, eh? :)
Marcus Arminius Maior
--- "S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
escreveu: > Salvete Quirites,
>
> Even though I had not expected to say these words;
> after so much kind comments and feelings of
> friendship expressed, how could I ignore the call of
> Roma? Once a Roman, always a Roman, I suppose.
> Gratias maximas ago, amicis meis!
>
> Valete bene!
> Sextus Apollonius Draco
_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! GeoCities
Tenha seu lugar na Web. Construa hoje mesmo sua home page no Yahoo! GeoCites. É fácil e grátis!
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Tapestries... |
| From: |
labienus@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 13:00:13 US/Central |
|
Salvete Tarquinia omnesque
> I intend to weave a tapestry. I don't know why, I just do. I don't
> know how to weave, I guess I could figure that out as it goes along. It
> seems fairly simple to me. But, I thought I'd ask, what sort of themes
> would you suggest for a tapestry? If you were going to weave a tapestry,
> what image would you weave?
I'm doing almost exactly the same thing with mosaic right now. I decided to
make a trio of plaques first, one for each of Gens Labiena's patron deities.
Currently, I've only just started cutting tesserae for Fortuna. It's tedious,
hand-numbing work, since I have to make nearly a thousand of the little things,
and I'm working with marble.
Anyway, if I were to weave a tapestry, I would choose some mythological scene.
There's an ancient mosaic of Paris trying to decide which Goddess deserves the
golden apple that's a favorite of mine, and that's probably what I'd opt for.
Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Happenings |
| From: |
ksterne@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 18:15:43 -0000 |
|
Salvete,
Well spend a few days away from the computer and look what happens.
Welcome "back" Draco and Sardonicus.
Valete,
Gaius Popillius Laenas
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Nerva. Oh well. |
| From: |
"Jeroen Meuleman" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 20:20:37 +0200 |
|
Ave Nerva,
> One night a few weeks ago, I saw ex-citizen Piscinus talking about
> breaking into the NR voter system, and warned NR about it. Octavius
posted
> telling us how it would be all but impossible for him to do this. Good
news!
> Not having any knowledge of how the system works, I saw a threat being
made,
> and made a public warning.
>
> I would do it again and I have no regrets over it.
>
> That "Rattus" is Piscinus is proven beyond any reasonable doubt and that
> proof is with the magistrates.
>
What magnaminity. How are you going to punish "Rattus"? Ironic, is it not.
> The next day, the artist formerly known as Sextus Apollonius Draco
tries
> to take a very personal revenge on both me and Lucius Cornelius Sulla.
The
> behavior of Piscinus was never of conern to him. He was just throwing his
> spear because I found out about it and reported it. He was upset because
his
> buddy got caught.
>
Ah, yes. Look who's talking about making false assumptions now? You asked
some people for proof here recently, now I'm asking you the same.
> But poor Draco forgot something. He forgot that when you light an
inferno,
> it is best to drop the match with your back to the wind. He did not do
this,
> and the resulting inferno ended up burning him. He caused great
embarassment
> to himself and to his gens. Most people but a few diehards saw his
pathetic
> attempt for what it was.
>
Hmm. Nobody defended you here in public, save for Sulla. Again, assumptions
that, as they'd say in Dutch "hit shore nor wall".
> Almost immediately after this, the Apollonii suffered another major
> blow---the passing of both edicts they opposed, in an election which could
be
> called Nova Roma's referendum of Apollonianism.
>
Another Dutch proverb goes "to talk out of one's neck", meaning: talking nonsense. I agree that I was very dissatisfied with the outcome of the vote, but to say that it was a referendum on Apollonianism is nonsense. If that were so, we fared pretty well, considering that a gens of 11 people can get about 1/3 of all voters vote their way, with a much larger opposition.
> They are sore losers, not martyrs.
>
I'll keep it at simply disagreeing with your macho assessments.
Vale,
Draco
"Jeder für sich, und Gott gegen allen."
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] When the village empties, look for the headman |
| From: |
Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 11:35:00 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Salvete omnes; et salve, censor Sulla.
--- Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@--------> wrote:
<<snipped>>
> No we might not..but we did send Americans to fight Franco (Remember
> Ernest Hemingway's book on the subject)
This is not correct. Although some Americans (Hemingway among them) did
fight for the Republican government in the Spanish Civil War, they were
not sent by the American government. They came here because they wanted
to fight against Fascism, but the American government did not support
the Republic during the war (they even implemented a weapon embargo
against the Republic), not even when Mussolini and Hitler sent troops
to fight for the National army.
Although the American government kept neutral during the conflict (if
holding an embargo against one side while allowing the other to receive
foreign aid can be considered neutral), many American industrialists
and businessmen did in fact SUPPORT Franco.
After the war, the American government not only did not fight against
Franco, but supported him as a "fortress against communism". In 1957,
the president of the USA Dwight "Ike" Eisenhower visited Spain, and was
registered by cameras on a triumphal parade through Madrid's Gran Vía,
on an open car alongside Franco himself.
Amewrica has never done much to support democracy in Spain. On the
contrary, some European statesman, like Billy Brandt or Giscard
D'Estaigne, DID led their nations to a firm support of democracy in
Spain, and offered an invaluable help when democracy did finally come
back to my homeland.
=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.
__________________________________________________
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Europeans and Resignations |
| From: |
Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 11:48:10 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Salvete omnes; et salve, L. Sicini Druse.
--- "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@--------> wrote:
<<snipped>>
> I would like to add an item to your list. The
> differences in the types of Macronational Governments
> that the European Citizens are familar with, compared
> to the type of Government Americans are used to.
>
> In the Parlamentry system it isn't unusual for a
> minister to resign his post to protest an action of
> the government, or even for a group of ministers to
> resign in order to bring down a government, and force
> elections.
>
> Could this tradition of Paralamentary resignations
> have caused many Europeans to look at resigning
> diferntly than North Americans do?
>
> I would like to hear from our European Citizens on
> this matter.
I think you might have struck the right chord here. The day after the
last Parliamentary Elections in Spain (March 2000), after having lost
the election, the candidate for Prime Minister of the Socialist Party
resigned from his office because he took the political responsability
of not having led his party to victory.
This was regarded as an extremely honourable action, and it was
presented as a good example of how to handle politics in many other
European countries, especially in Italy and France.
No one considered this a childish behaviour. It was viewed as a huge
sacrifice to his own honour and to the honour of his party.
Other politicians have regularly resigned in Europe, especially when
having suffered an outstanding (and many times founded) political
attack from their opponents.
=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.
__________________________________________________
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] European Wars (was When the village empties, look for the headman) |
| From: |
Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 11:55:42 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Salvete omnes; et salve, Druse.
--- Lucius Sicinius Drusus <lsicinius@--------> wrote:
<<snipped>>
> Salve,
> Do not make the mistake of thinking that the USA is unaware of the
> horrors of a modern war fought on your homeland.
>
> The First modern war was the US Civil war, so that is a lesson we
> learned before Europe did. The City I was born in was destroyed when
> the front line swept through it 80 years before the battles of WWII.
During the decade of the 1860's, there were wars, at least, in Spain,
Italy, Germany and the Austrohungarian Empire. There were wars in the
previous decade (the 1848 revolutions) and in the following decade (the
Franco-Prussian war).
It is extremely difficult to beat Europe in the number of wars.
Besides, you are talking about a war that, however horrible might have
been, took place 140 years ago. My hometown (Madrid) was partially
destroyed 60 years ago, and many European citizens were completely
destroyed shortly after. Our own parents and grandparents lived under
the rage of war. Most of them have never completely recovered.
I think war is much closer to us. Lucky you.
=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.
__________________________________________________
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Possible Source of Income? |
| From: |
Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 15:24:07 -0400 |
|
Gnaeus Salix Astur Wrote:
> I have read some things about latrunculi, and I have tried to play a
> few games. Could I ask you what have tou decided about the movement of
> the Aquila? The problem I saw was that it was extremely difficult to
> capture the Aquila even if all its "soldiers" had been "slaughtered".
> Its mobility made it too fast to be captured by four pieces. I had
> thought of two options:
>
> a) Giving the game as won either when the enemy Aquila is captured or
> when all other enemy pieces have been captured.
>
> b) Restraining the movement of the Aquila (which makes for a less
> exiting game).
>
> What have been your decisions?
Actually I have not played much of the version of the game you tried. I play
with no Aquila. This version is the one truly thought to be played most
often in Rome. As for your question, I still have a few ideas.
1) When all that is left if the Aqulia the game is won.
2) Just like you said the Aqulia is the king, if taken the game is loss.
Hinc est mei oratio!
--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Civis Canada Orientalis
Canada Orientalis Website Scribae
www.freehost.nu/members/canorien
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] When the village empties, look for the headman |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 13:06:07 -0700 |
|
Gnaeus Salix Astur wrote:
>
> Salvete omnes; et salve, censor Sulla.
>
> --- Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@--------> wrote:
>
> <<snipped>>
>
> > No we might not..but we did send Americans to fight Franco (Remember
> > Ernest Hemingway's book on the subject)
>
> This is not correct. Although some Americans (Hemingway among them) did
> fight for the Republican government in the Spanish Civil War, they were
> not sent by the American government.
I never said they were sent by the American Government. You just
completely valideated what I said. Please do NOT add to my statement.
This is again the same issue that has happened over and over again that
causes problems!
They came here because they wanted
> to fight against Fascism, but the American government did not support
> the Republic during the war (they even implemented a weapon embargo
> against the Republic), not even when Mussolini and Hitler sent troops
> to fight for the National army.
I never stated that the American Government SENT troops. I said
Amerians FOUGHT Franco. That is a correct statement.
<Snip>
Vale,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Tapestries... |
| From: |
"Domna Claudia Auspicata" <comptess@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 30 May 2001 08:12:57 +1200 |
|
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Salve!
Tapestry used to be the only form of needlework I would engage in
myself, I remember being overawed as a child by a large tapestry of
the Last Supper and I found the other forms of needlework tedious or
ugly ;-). I also tried to use embroidery silks, which you have to
double up, rather than tapestry wool because the silk is shinier.
Everyone else has suggested some great themes. I personally for one
like mythological, historical themes. The paintings of the
neo-classicist Poussin (sp?) are wonderful, Aeneas and Venus, Bacchus
parties, etc and there is also this great painting by a British
artist, whose name I can't remember, of Vercingetorix before Caesar
after his defeat. I think its on the cover of a recent Penguin
edition of the Gallic Wars. I would think that to recreate some of
the masterpeices though would be very difficult, certainly beyond my
skill.
Good luck!
Vale
Domna Claudia Auspicata
- ----- Original Message -----
From: CmndrZil@--------
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 2:11 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Tapestries...
Salve,
I have noticed that this list does not have to be dedicated to
"politics"
(vindictiveness, cruelty, politics, same difference), and so I
thought I
would bring up a conversation about tapestries.
I intend to weave a tapestry. I don't know why, I just do. I don't
know how
to weave, I guess I could figure that out as it goes along. It seems
fairly
simple to me. But, I thought I'd ask, what sort of themes would you
suggest
for a tapestry? If you were going to weave a tapestry, what image
would you
weave?
Tarquinia Euphemia
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] In response to Censor Sulla |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 13:15:11 -0700 |
|
"S. Apollonius Draco" wrote:
>
> Salve O Censor,
>
> I just wanted to comment a few of your comments to Iasonus Serenus.
>
> << I will be the first to admit Draco had potential...but I will also admit he
> was blinded by hatred and emotion. >>
>
> As for the former comment, thank you. As for the latter, it's untrue. In my entire life I have never hated anybody. I am a sensitive person, yes, but so are you, so that's no real thing to complain about, is it?
I disagree Sextus, you are the one who publically called me a liar...and
tried to nail me unsuccessfully for the resigantion edict. In both
cases you failed to apologize. For that, I do believe you are blinded
by hatred....but then that is just my opinion. I say this just as the
example you chose me...if your ex-Pater did this would you have
persecuted him? I do not think so.
> << Such flowery rehetoric....let me compliment that....though the point is not
> made...No founder...no Magistrate insulted Sextus Apollonius...I still see
> no proof of your obvious hatred of us, the leaders of Nova Roma. >>
>
> I take exception. As it has been made clear, some people in top positions or of some allure (not litterally leaders, but belonging to the vocal elite) did call me names I did not like. Don't start about friends of mine calling you Swilla behind your back, please. That was in response to something entirely different.
Who? Lets stop this insinuation. If you have evidence of
LEADERS....(which you state you do not) let submit it. You have already
tried to slander me on the NR main list and impunge my digintas. Whats
stopping you from doing this right now? And, I take affront to
Swilla. But, I know who called that to me...
> << We had that...it was called the Amici Dignitas. When they left, on the Ides of March they embezzled funds from Nova Roma. >>
>
> Since I terminated the Dignitas Forum, the list of Amici isn't there anymore to check it, but of the nine or ten Amici, four left, and only one of them is said to be engaged in embezzlement. Which is yet to be proven. What counts for me, counts for you too, O Censor. Proof!
That isnt the point. It was there. It failed and if I am aware, 2 of
them embezzeled funds from Nova Roma. The Governor and his Treasury
Legate. Then we have Piscinus/Rattus are are the same person, I have
forwarded proof to the Consuls, my colleague to prevent his readmission
into Nova Roma, to the Praetors. Instead of making this an issue on the
NR main list...which is what you should have done about the Festus/Nerva
issue. Which on that you still have not apologized for.
> << When they labelled me a tyrant for not bringing the laws that the Censors drafted. >>
>
> I never said this.
I never said you, I said they.
> << Now those laws were brought before the People of Nova Roma....they were passed...now the remainder of them resigned. Once again..I think you should read the main list..I have tried to compromise with M. Apollonius....he was unwilling...the People saw that. >>
>
> And you seem to have ignored the good things Formosanus said about you. Compromise has failed, because Formosanus thought it was pretty much impossible.
Am I supposed to forget the label Nazi? Am I supposed to forget the
label fascist? Sorry Draco, It will take a hell of a lot of effort from
M. Apollonius to even BEGIN to make up for that. Talk is cheap.
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>
> Vale bene,
> Draco
>
> "Jeder für sich, und Gott gegen allen."
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Happy Belated Birthday Draco |
| From: |
"Raina Faolan" <GuruPoet@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 16:49:01 -0400 |
|
Happy Belated Birthday Draco! And welcome back, I really am sending good
wishes without any hidden dictatoral intentions.
--Aeternia
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Possible Source of Income? |
| From: |
Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 14:05:24 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Salve, Amuli Claudi Petre.
Thank you for answering my post. Yes, I guess that, when the Aquila has
been left alone, it should be automatically captured.
I would suggest that you do try the Aquila version. I have tried both
versions, and I think the Aquila really adds a lot of flavour to the
game. As it is extremely difficult to capture, it has a terrible
offensive power. However, a capture of the Aquila means defeat, so it
must be moved carefully.
If you ever want to have another conversation about this, please do not
hesitate to mail me.
=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.
__________________________________________________
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] When the village empties, look for the headman |
| From: |
Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 14:14:32 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Salvete omnes; et salve, censor Sulla.
--- Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@--------> wrote:
>
>
> Gnaeus Salix Astur wrote:
> >
> > Salvete omnes; et salve, censor Sulla.
> >
> > --- Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@--------> wrote:
> >
> > <<snipped>>
> >
> > > No we might not..but we did send Americans to fight Franco
> (Remember
> > > Ernest Hemingway's book on the subject)
> >
> > This is not correct. Although some Americans (Hemingway among them)
> did
> > fight for the Republican government in the Spanish Civil War, they
> were
> > not sent by the American government.
>
> I never said they were sent by the American Government. You just
> completely valideated what I said. Please do NOT add to my
> statement.
> This is again the same issue that has happened over and over again
> that
> causes problems!
Yes, you are right that I added something to your statement. I
apologize for this. Maybe I shouldn't have talked about the American
government. However, as you said "we did send Americans", I supposed
you were talking about the American people. That is, "the American
people sent Americans to fight against Franco". This would usually mean
that the American government sent them.
But, as you said later on, some Americans DID fight against Franco. I
guess neither you nor me got our affirmations completely right.
Please, let's not make an argument about this thing. I was not angry by
what you said. I was just trying to correct your historical statement
(after all, you were talking about the History of my nation).
Sometimes, it is difficult to understand the motives behind words on
the Internet, because we lack the information given by facial
expression and body language.
Please accept my apologies.
=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.
__________________________________________________
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] When the village empties, look for the headman |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 14:14:09 -0700 |
|
Gnaeus Salix Astur wrote:
>
> Salvete omnes; et salve, censor Sulla.
>
> --- Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@--------> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Gnaeus Salix Astur wrote:
> > >
> > > Salvete omnes; et salve, censor Sulla.
> > >
> > > --- Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@--------> wrote:
> > >
> > > <<snipped>>
> > >
> > > > No we might not..but we did send Americans to fight Franco
> > (Remember
> > > > Ernest Hemingway's book on the subject)
> > >
> > > This is not correct. Although some Americans (Hemingway among them)
> > did
> > > fight for the Republican government in the Spanish Civil War, they
> > were
> > > not sent by the American government.
> >
> > I never said they were sent by the American Government. You just
> > completely valideated what I said. Please do NOT add to my
> > statement.
> > This is again the same issue that has happened over and over again
> > that
> > causes problems!
>
> Yes, you are right that I added something to your statement. I
> apologize for this. Maybe I shouldn't have talked about the American
> government. However, as you said "we did send Americans", I supposed
> you were talking about the American people. That is, "the American
> people sent Americans to fight against Franco". This would usually mean
> that the American government sent them.
>
> But, as you said later on, some Americans DID fight against Franco. I
> guess neither you nor me got our affirmations completely right.
>
> Please, let's not make an argument about this thing. I was not angry by
> what you said. I was just trying to correct your historical statement
> (after all, you were talking about the History of my nation).
> Sometimes, it is difficult to understand the motives behind words on
> the Internet, because we lack the information given by facial
> expression and body language.
>
> Please accept my apologies.
>
Oh its ok. :) No harm done....I apologize for getting in defensive
mode..I was just trying to make a point about the statement from
Iasonus.
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Tapestries |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 17:40:16 -0400 (EDT) |
|
What an ambitious idea!!!! The weaver's skills are significant and
encompass not only the eye and skill of the accomplished artist, but the
technical ability of the talented technical mind.
I once saw a painting hanging in one of the great museums of Malta, I
believe, which I vividly remember,
(since it relieved the eternal procession of portraits of men who had
been influential in the affairs of the Knights of Malta)
as a bright and lovely rendering of bumblebees gathering nectar from a
fiels of blossoms in the bright sunshine. I was struck by the extreme
beauty of such a simple scene, and the skill of the artist which brought
that scene to life in such a way as to brighted that dark hall of somber
memories.
It would take a significant effort I suppose to render such a scene in a
tapeatry, bt Lord what a beautiful thing it would be!!!!
Respectfully;
Marcus Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: When the village empties, look for the headman |
| From: |
"Nick R. Ramos Jr." <nramos@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 21:41:08 -0000 |
|
Salvete Omnes!
<snip!>
>
> Yes, you are right that I added something to your statement. I
> apologize for this. Maybe I shouldn't have talked about the American
> government. However, as you said "we did send Americans", I supposed
> you were talking about the American people. That is, "the American
> people sent Americans to fight against Franco". This would usually
mean
> that the American government sent them.
>
> But, as you said later on, some Americans DID fight against Franco.
I
> guess neither you nor me got our affirmations completely right.
>
> Please, let's not make an argument about this thing. I was not angry
by
> what you said. I was just trying to correct your historical
statement
> (after all, you were talking about the History of my nation).
> Sometimes, it is difficult to understand the motives behind words on
> the Internet, because we lack the information given by facial
> expression and body language.
Mi Astur, I think you have hit the nail on the head here with this
last observation. It is so easy to read motives and emotions that do
not reflect the true state of mind of the writer into what is being
written here precisely because we lack so many of the cues that define
communication between human beings.
Mi Quirites, perhaps we should all reflect a bit on how we have held
our recent discourses in this Forum, and how perhaps so much bile and
invective might have been avoided if we might have thought a bit
before jumping on our keyboards. Ego confesso - I was probably as
guilty as anyone else of this. I hope I have learned my lesson, and
perhaps others will too.
Optime vale,
Marius Cornelius Scipio
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] A Son of Nova Roma Returns!!! |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 17:51:23 -0400 (EDT) |
|
Master Draco;
Sir, I am just returned this afternnoon from an extended reenactment
(Rendevouz) and I am still catching up. Am I to understand tht you have
reconsidered your resignation?? If so welcome back and to the ranks of
those who have dispaired of and reconsidered thier involvement with
NR!!!
I am pleased to thank you for your kind words regarding myself, but far
more importantly to welcome your return. I value your membership here
even if we do not always agree, but then that puts you in the same
category with many of those of Nova Roma, including some of the highest
Officers of the Micro-Nation (Grin!!!!!!!!).
Your return to NR will not insure that we will always agree, but that
perhaps on occasion we can concur for the furtherence of NR.
Welcome back my friend!!! I am very pleased at your return!!!!
Respectfully;
Marcus Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] GLADIATOR--The NR Version, chap. 5 |
| From: |
"Marcus Darius Ursus" <marcus_darius@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 16:29:47 -0600 |
|
Salve,
I seem to be missing Chapter 5, is there any way to get it re-posted?
Vale,
Marcus Darius Ursus
Paterfamilias Daria
Legatus Militum, Canada Occidentalis
Legatus, Regio of Athabasca
--------------------------
marcus_darius@--------
Bellerophon@--------
ICQ: 83821138
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: A Son of Nova Roma Returns!!! |
| From: |
octavianuslucius@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 22:29:56 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, jmath669642reng@w... wrote:
> Master Draco;
>
> Sir, I am just returned this afternnoon from an extended reenactment
> (Rendevouz) and I am still catching up. Am I to understand tht you
have
> reconsidered your resignation?? If so welcome back and to the
ranks of
> those who have dispaired of and reconsidered thier involvement with
> NR!!!
>
> I am pleased to thank you for your kind words regarding myself, but
far
> more importantly to welcome your return. I value your membership
here
> even if we do not always agree, but then that puts you in the same
> category with many of those of Nova Roma, including some of the
highest
> Officers of the Micro-Nation (Grin!!!!!!!!).
>
> Your return to NR will not insure that we will always agree, but
that
> perhaps on occasion we can concur for the furtherence of NR.
>
> Welcome back my friend!!! I am very pleased at your return!!!!
>
> Respectfully;
> Marcus Audens
>
> Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
>
>
> http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Draco attacked? |
| From: |
"Marcos Boehme" <m_arminius@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 19:55:01 -0300 |
|
Salve
Reading your parody for the first time, i thought that Puellarius was really Draco.
Now, if i undestood correctly, Puellarius isnt.
But, if i was in a park, and see a arrow suddenly hitting a tree half meter of my head, and an archer, who isnt exactly my friend, says that he only wants to hit the tree, and that i only was in their line of sight, then, i will consider a lot of things.
Vale
Marcus Arminius Maior
--
> The Puellarius character is not Draco. Octavius *could* have asked me
>directly if he was, but he never bothered.
[...]
> However, he is not Draco.
>
>1. When Nova Romans were used as characters, their Nova Roma names were used.
>2. Puellarius was the fictional son of Flaccus, and was not an Apollonii.
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] GLADIATOR--The NR Version, chap. 5 |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 15:57:12 -0700 |
|
on 5/29/01 3:29 PM, Marcus Darius Ursus at marcus_darius@-------- wrote:
> Salve,
>
> I seem to be missing Chapter 5, is there any way to get it re-posted?
>
> Vale,
>
> Marcus Darius Ursus
> Paterfamilias Daria
> Legatus Militum, Canada Occidentalis
> Legatus, Regio of Athabasca
> --------------------------
> marcus_darius@--------
> Bellerophon@--------
> ICQ: 83821138
>
When I get home from work tonite I can send it.
Sulla
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Draco. Oh well. |
| From: |
gcassiusnerva@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 19:04:33 EDT |
|
Ave Draco,
As for Draco vs. Puellarius....whatever flatters you ego! Believe what
you wish.
<<How are you going to punish "Rattus"?>>
Non-citizens cannot be punished. But what he did can be considered should he
ever reapply. That is why it is in the hands of the magistrates.
<<You asked some people for proof here recently, now I'm asking you the same.>
>
What I called for was for you to take me on in a properly constituted Nova
Roma trial.
IAs for the proof of Piscinus/Rattus...again, the magistrates have it. Ask
them.
<<Nobody defended you here in public, save for Sulla.>>
Because I needed no defending.
<<...we fared pretty well, considering that a gens of 11 people can get about
1/3 of all voters vote their way...>>
1/3 of voters = you lost.
Vale,
Nerva
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Roman Movie Poll Pre-Results |
| From: |
gcassiusnerva@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 19:04:58 EDT |
|
The Roman movie poll is set to end on August 1. But if any are
interested, here are the front runners.
Ahead in the number one spot with 19 votes is I' Claudius.
Gladiator is second with 14, with Spartacus in a close third with 11.
Cleopatra {Liz version} and the musical A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to
the Forum are tied in 4th with seven each.
Nerva
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Temple of Ceres |
| From: |
"Marcos Boehme" <m_arminius@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 20:11:16 -0300 |
|
Salvete Omnes
I dont know exactly what is the policy of the Collegium Pontificum about Virtual Temples. In the absence of rules, i will appeal to tradition.
In the ancient times, it was a Plebeian Aedile who founded a Temple dedicated to Ceres, Liber and Libera.
So, today, ante diem IV Kal Iun (29/mai), day of the Ambarvalia, i declare that the Temple of Ceres, at:
http://www.geocities.com/margali99maincom/TempleofCeres.html
who was built by our citizen Hyapatia Asinia Margali, is a official Temple of Nova Roma.
Marcus Arminius Maior
Aedilis Plebis
--- margali <1margali@--------> escreveu:
> I have gotten some nice responses back, so with your
> permission,
> I want it to go 'official' on the 29th, which is
> when Ambarvalia
> would be celebrated this year.
>
> I did try to keep the page simple and quick-loading.
[...]
>Hyapatia Asinia Margali
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] a congratulations for Sulla |
| From: |
"Cascus Tiberius Rufio Longinus" <kminer_rsg@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 19:17:20 -0400 |
|
I would like to publicly congratulate sulla for convincing a member of my
gens to jump ship.
Sardonicus is a good man, I hope you have not led him too astray
may your gens grow and flourish...
CTRL
Cascus Tiberius Rufio Longinus
Praefectus Legionis & Tribuni Militum
Legio VI Victrix Pia Fidelis
Pater, Gens Tiberia of Nova Roma
"Nos Sumus Romae milites, parati stamus ad potestatem et gloriam eius. Roma
est Lux."
"we are soldiers of Rome, for her might and glory we stand ready... She is
the Light"
www.geocities.com/legio_vi
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] a congratulations for Sulla |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 16:25:15 -0700 |
|
on 5/29/01 4:17 PM, Cascus Tiberius Rufio Longinus at kminer_rsg@--------
wrote:
> I would like to publicly congratulate sulla for convincing a member of my
> gens to jump ship.
Ave,
I do not recruit to my Gens as it would be a conflict of interest. I was
asked by Lucius Tiberius Sardonicus..and I accepted him, only on the
condition he got pater approval. This is not the first time I have had
citizens leave one gens to join mine. Or vice-versa as well. I hope that
you are not implying that I am actually recruiting people into my gens who
are already citizens of Nova Roma. Because it is simply not true.
> Sardonicus is a good man, I hope you have not led him too astray
Yes, I know he is a good man, which is why it was an honor to be approached
by him to join the Gens Corenlia.
> may your gens grow and flourish...
Thank you and may your Gens grown and flourish too!
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> CTRL
>
>
>
> Cascus Tiberius Rufio Longinus
> Praefectus Legionis & Tribuni Militum
> Legio VI Victrix Pia Fidelis
> Pater, Gens Tiberia of Nova Roma
>
> "Nos Sumus Romae milites, parati stamus ad potestatem et gloriam eius. Roma
> est Lux."
> "we are soldiers of Rome, for her might and glory we stand ready... She is
> the Light"
>
> www.geocities.com/legio_vi
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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>
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>
>
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Once a Roman... |
| From: |
"Teleri ferch Nyfain" <rckovak@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 19:33:31 -0400 |
|
Salve Draco,
I am glad to see you have reconsidered. Welcome back, & happy birthday!
Vale bene,
Helena Galeria
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Draco. Oh well. |
| From: |
Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 18:30:44 -0500 (CDT) |
|
> What I called for was for you to take me on in a properly constituted Nova
> Roma trial.
Trial? For what? Draco's allegation that you were admitted prematurely
is known to all to be factual.
--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Draco. Oh well. |
| From: |
gcassiusnerva@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 19:32:10 EDT |
|
In a message dated 5/29/01 4:30:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time, haase@--------
writes:
> Draco's allegation that you were admitted prematurely
> is known to all to be factual.
>
>
His charge that this was "massive corruption" meaning deliberately done is
not factual.
Nerva
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Goodbye |
| From: |
Mark A Bird <mark_a_bird@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 30 May 2001 09:30:57 +1000 |
|
Ave all
Just a last note to say that I will be taking an extended holiday from this
list for some time to reflect on core Roman values and more importantly to
learn more about Roman Nova before I come back. I have enjoyed our
discussions from time to time and I apologise if I have offended anyone with
my bluntness and I when I return I will be far more polite.
I am also finding that if I can channel the energies that it takes to read
through the 170 e-mails a day from the Nova list to something more tangible
for our province...that is not to say that discussions on the list are
important to Roma Nova... they are crucial!!!...it is just my efforts will
(in my opinion) be far more valuable to Nova Roma at this early stage of my
career.
Thanking you all and best wishes - I wish of course I could say this in
Latin (vale bene ???) - but I will perhaps be able to say such things in
Latin next month as I am going back to school to learn Latin of all things -
at 36 this will be interesting.
Marcus Sentius Claudius
Legatus Australia Austrorientalis
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Once a Roman... |
| From: |
"A. Cato" <a.cato@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 19:44:38 -0400 |
|
Salve Sexti Apolloni: Welcome back my friend. Your contributions are
valuable. Although we may disagree politcally, I respect your right to your
opinion, and appreciate your many contributions to Nova Roma. I was saddened
by your leaving, and I am happy to have you return. I can certainly
understand that it is not easy for you, but believe me mi amici, there are
still many of us who can disagree as friends. We are all working for the
same thing, although there are many times it may not look like it.
I am glad to have you home. Ave atque vale, ... Appius Tullius Marcellus
Cato
----- Original Message -----
From: "S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
To: "Nova Roma" <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 11:46 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Once a Roman...
Salvete Quirites,
Even though I had not expected to say these words; after so much kind
comments and feelings of friendship expressed, how could I ignore the call
of Roma? Once a Roman, always a Roman, I suppose. Gratias maximas ago,
amicis meis!
Valete bene!
Sextus Apollonius Draco
"Jeder für sich, und Gott gegen allen."
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Draco. Oh well. |
| From: |
"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 16:41:24 -0700 |
|
on 5/29/01 4:30 PM, Marcus Octavius Germanicus at haase@-------- wrote:
>> What I called for was for you to take me on in a properly constituted Nova
>> Roma trial.
>
> Trial? For what? Draco's allegation that you were admitted prematurely
> is known to all to be factual.
>
Senator, you know that was not all of Draco's point. You know his primary
reason, it was his assumption that I was the one who did the violation. He
was wrong. This issue has been brought up a number of times...and he was
wrong. Was he mature enough to admit his mistake....even when my colleague
admitted he was the one who approved the application. Draco implied massive
corruption in the office of the Censorship. You yourself even admitted that
was not true....we just did not have all of the information available to us
in a capactity where we could utilize it.
Please, lets stop this non-sense...Draco had some facts right..but others
TOTALLY off base. Was Draco mature enough to admit is error....NO. Lets
leave it at that. I guess at this point we should agree to disagree
Senator.
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Welcome home, Draco. |
| From: |
Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 29 May 2001 16:44:12 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Salve, Draco.
As everyone is congratulating you for your return, I guess I must do
the same thing.
Welcome home, Draco.
Congratulations on your eighteenth birthday.
=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.
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