Forum Romanum


Subject:	[novaroma] Oppius Takes a Leave of Absence
From:	"Oppius Flaccus Severus" <oppiusflaccus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 29 May 2001 17:09:52 -0700

Salvete Quiritibus;

I come before you today to announce that I will be taking
a leave of absence from Nova Roma very shortly. There are
two primary reasons:

1-I need a break! (Not that I don't love it here, but I've got
to get away and restructure some of my duties and priorities)
Plus, having a number of macronational and familial commitments
during this time is a major factor as well.

2-I'll be traveling almost the entire month of July anyways (road
trip to sunny Southern Cali.,) so would have already been unreachable
for much of that time. I figure -why not make it official and get
a true holiday out of the deal?

My official dates of absence:
Monday, June 11th through Sunday, August 5th -returning to active
life on Monday August 6th.

The reason I'm sending this out in advance is in hopes of clearing
up any pending business that I may have with any of you; be it
governmental, personal or at the Sodalitas level. So, with about
a week away, anyone that needs to clear up open issues with me please
contact me directly at: 'oppiusflaccus@--------'

During my absence, I will continue to work on a few open projects
that are pending as time allows. Primarily, these will be:

1-Restructuring of the Sodalitas Musarum web site. (A complete
redesign and reconfiguration of much of the information there.)

2-Reconstruction of Neptunus as associated with my priesthood.

Please contact the following people for any pending issues during
this time:

Provincial Issues: Contact Lucius Maricius Procopius
Gens and Emergency Issues: Contact Gaia Flacca Severa
Quaestorial issues: Contact Titus Sertorius
Musarum issues: Aeternia
Sacerdos issues: No proxy for this one at the moment :-)

Of course, you can leave me a message regarding any of the above.
I'll be switching to 'web delivery only' for all my current
list subscriptions.

So, I will try to post once more next Sunday as a reminder.
In the meantime, please contact me if there are any issues
pending. I'd like to leave as few open items as possible.

Gratias multas!
Bene valete in Pace Deorum,
Oppius

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Subject:	[novaroma] Excessive Response
From:	jmath669642reng@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 May 2001 22:05:47 -0400 (EDT)

Citizens of Nova Roma;

Although this message is directed at one person it could well be
indicative to many here, and I write this message in full realization of
what I am saying and the consequences it will bring, but I feel such is
long overdue, and I further feel that in all honesty, I must say it--in
keeping with who I am, the station I am privaledged to hold, and in the
fact that I fear no election of the people or selection of my peers.
Simply because if I have been abrupt, argumentative, opinionated and
attitudinal--I have also been honest, straightforward, and forthright,
which in my humble estimation is what the citizens of Nova Roma expect
and desire.

Senator / Censor Sulla;

Can you not ever silence your knee jerk responses?? Can you not leave
your opponents some dignity in their views? Can you not limit your
views to something even remotely resembling thoughtful communicaions??
Must you always return each comment with an attack??

A large percentage of the posts on this list in relation to the numbers
of our population are yours, and I get the distinct impression that you
cannot let any question, any comment, any revelation go by without your
comment, your eternal comment, and your eternal opinion which has / have
been repeated even more often than have those of another demagouge.
Enough already!!!!!!!!1

Most of those who have left NR, to my questions, have cited your
responsibility in some guise or another. Most of the acrimony on this
Main List has been either caused or accelerated by your remarks which
are calculated to irritate a "marble statue." You are in the middle of
virtually every argument on this Main List. I cringe when I see a
comment from you on this list because I fear that it will be yet another
remark which will garner NR another set-back and /or "black eye" in some
small or large way and will necessitate yet another defense of your
inarticulate efforts to justify your actions, your words or both.

I acknowledge that you are a hard worker for Nova Roma, and I also
acknowledge that you may well have her best interests at heart, and I
recognize that you like I have been placed in our position by the
Citizens----but I do question some of your methods and I definately
question your inability to allow your opponents a little dignity and to
review their ideas in the light of possible good points and solutions
for NR. One of the marks of a good politician is to, "Shut Up and
Listen." I certainly wish you could learn that simple lesson. I have
been assured by those who I have spoken to about your past antics and
stumbles, that you are "worth saving" and since you and I are both
elected Magistrates, I am required to support your actions and words to
a certain degree. I respect my colleagues evaluations, but I must say,
"You are becoming a heavy burden to carry--how about a little help????"

Now I am sure that your "pen" is poisd to refute my comments, but I ask
that you hold that pen for at least two days---reflect on my words---ask
at least three people with whom we both work in government to be
brutally frank with you about the content of this post. When you have
done that --- then flame away--but until you have done that, frankly I
am not interested.

To the Gens Cornellii:

I know next to nothing about the Gens nor is it any of my business. My
above comments are not directed at Sulla the Paterfamilias but rather
Sulla the politician. Before you respond to this message, consider
that, please.

In closing, to all Nova Roma Citizens, I am well aware that I am not
totally innocent of problms, and I am sure that many will disagree with
what I have done and said here, and that is your privaledge, but I have
endured Sulla's presence now for three years, I have been forced in
numerous occasions to "pick up after him" for the good of Nova Roma. I
have chastised him in private and before the Senate for a variey of
reasons,and I have also agreed and praised him as I thought appropriate.
I have counseled him, and I have spoken privately with him by telephone
and have explained my feelings as I would to a member of my family, and
I know that he has had some problems from which he is recovering in the
past. However, the foregoing words and efforts do not seem to have had
any effect whatsoever, and I feel that what I have said had to be said
here. I have no problem in saying these words because they are based on
what I know to be true, and in my view necessary for Nova Roma.

It may well be that I am wrong in this effort, but considering my past
efforts and thier lack of success, the problems which have occurred, are
now ocurring and will in all likelihood continue to occur if something
is not said, I take it upon myself to say these words. They are mine
and mine alone, and they reflect no particular views but mine. I have
not asked anyone's permission to voice them, nor will I ever if I deem
the words necessary to say.

----In short, think about what you say!!!!!

----Be sure that if what you have to say is negative, in whatever venue,
you and Nova Roma will regret it!!!!!!

----You are a Magistrate. Your will already be two of three strikes
down because of political opponents. Don't do yourself in completely by
opening your mouth and inserting the whole of your Senatorial Sandals
for the third strike. It hurts Nova Roma!!!!

-----If you think there is even the slightest chance that you shouldn't
say what you are about to say---You're RIGHT!!!!!!---Don't say it!!!!!

-----Think More---Write Less!!!!!!!

Take a page from your past and present Censorial Colleagues. They did /
do thier work well and quietly. Thier ideas are well thought out and
significant. They ask others to review thier ideas when in doubt.
Thier comments are always thoughtful, meaningful and even thier
opponents think carefully before replying. You have friends, use
them!!! You have intelligence, use it!!!! You have ability, apply
it!!!!!!! You have position, RESPECT it!!!!!!!!!!

Respectfully;
Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Oppius Takes a Leave of Absence
From:	"Raina Faolan" <GuruPoet@-------->
Date:	Tue, 29 May 2001 20:46:39 -0400

Salve,

Good luck, best wishes on your trip, and may you all come back safely.
Since you'll be in the So. California region, if memory doesn't fail me,
Whale Watching seasons starts in that state around that time. Humpback
Whales enroute to Hawaii, something you and the family would enjoy perhaps.
Let me know if you're intrested and I'll look up info and send it off-list.
By the way if you're going to DisneyLand send me a pic of Tigger!!

Vale Bene,
Aeternia

>From: "Oppius Flaccus Severus" <oppiusflaccus@-------->
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: <novaroma@-------->, <NovaRomaAnnounce@-------->
>Subject: [novaroma] Oppius Takes a Leave of Absence
>Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 17:09:52 -0700
>
>Salvete Quiritibus;
>
>I come before you today to announce that I will be taking
>a leave of absence from Nova Roma very shortly. There are
>two primary reasons:
>
>1-I need a break! (Not that I don't love it here, but I've got
> to get away and restructure some of my duties and priorities)
> Plus, having a number of macronational and familial commitments
> during this time is a major factor as well.
>
>2-I'll be traveling almost the entire month of July anyways (road
> trip to sunny Southern Cali.,) so would have already been unreachable
> for much of that time. I figure -why not make it official and get
> a true holiday out of the deal?
>
>My official dates of absence:
>Monday, June 11th through Sunday, August 5th -returning to active
>life on Monday August 6th.
>
>The reason I'm sending this out in advance is in hopes of clearing
>up any pending business that I may have with any of you; be it
>governmental, personal or at the Sodalitas level. So, with about
>a week away, anyone that needs to clear up open issues with me please
>contact me directly at: 'oppiusflaccus@--------'
>
>During my absence, I will continue to work on a few open projects
>that are pending as time allows. Primarily, these will be:
>
>1-Restructuring of the Sodalitas Musarum web site. (A complete
> redesign and reconfiguration of much of the information there.)
>
>2-Reconstruction of Neptunus as associated with my priesthood.
>
>Please contact the following people for any pending issues during
>this time:
>
>Provincial Issues: Contact Lucius Maricius Procopius
>Gens and Emergency Issues: Contact Gaia Flacca Severa
>Quaestorial issues: Contact Titus Sertorius
>Musarum issues: Aeternia
>Sacerdos issues: No proxy for this one at the moment :-)
>
>Of course, you can leave me a message regarding any of the above.
>I'll be switching to 'web delivery only' for all my current
>list subscriptions.
>
>So, I will try to post once more next Sunday as a reminder.
>In the meantime, please contact me if there are any issues
>pending. I'd like to leave as few open items as possible.
>
>Gratias multas!
>Bene valete in Pace Deorum,
>Oppius
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>

_________________________________________________________________
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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Draco. Oh well.
From:	loos@--------
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 00:34:34 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@e...>
wrote:
> on 5/29/01 4:30 PM, Mar--------O--------ius Germani--------at hu---------------- wrote:
>
> >> What I called for was for you to take me on in a properly
constituted Nova
> >> Roma trial.
> >
> > Trial? For what? Draco's allegation that you were admitted
prematurely
> > is known to all to be factual.
> >
>
> Senator, you know that was not all of Draco's point. You know his
primary
> reason, it was his assumption that I was the one who did the
violation. He
> was wrong. This issue has been brought up a number of times...and
he was
> wrong. Was he mature enough to admit his mistake....even when my
colleague
> admitted he was the one who approved the application.

Misled by your communication of a false date of resignation,
false date that was confirmed by Nerva/Festus. Still your
responsability.

> Draco implied massive
> corruption in the office of the Censorship. You yourself even
admitted that
> was not true....we just did not have all of the information
available to us
> in a capactity where we could utilize it.
>

You just did not look for it, any commoner was able to check the
mail-list archieve in order to find the resignation date.
Your collegue had no reason to do it after you and Nerva/Festus
pointed out the same erroneous date.

> Please, lets stop this non-sense...Draco had some facts right..but
others
> TOTALLY off base. Was Draco mature enough to admit is error....NO.

No error on the bases just on details.

Salve,

Manius Villius Limitanus.

> Lets
> leave it at that. I guess at this point we should agree to disagree
> Senator.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

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Subject:	[novaroma] Romulus
From:	iasonvs_serenvs@--------
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 01:39:06 -0000

Salvete omnes.

Sometimes, in the heart and heat of a matter at once vital and
divisive, we employ words in a manner that makes sense to our own
understanding, yet leave themselves too open the divers
interpretations of others. In reviewing my own comments, and the
responses engendered by them, I feel it necessary to recapitulate a
position. I hope to do so with greater clarity before.

Before I begin, I must make a public offering of concord to Censor
Cornelius Sulla. It seems that he took deliberately general
statements, made by me, to heart. As I mentioned to him, I did not
engage in a named onslaught for very personal reasons. I do not, and
let me be specific here, take any umbrage with individual leaders or
persons. My argument was leveled against the leadership, in sum. It
was an argument, and hence offered with the expectation and
anticipation of response. Had I the intention of undermining the
respect for a particular person, I would have employed an attack,
which goes to character, personality, and personal motives. When I
write that my opposition (and it is a loyal opposition) is with the
leadership of our city, I mean precisely and only that. I believe
the Censor's words, and the obvious fruits of his dedication, when he
states that he has given much to the foundation of the city. Nor do
I deny him my recognition of his due accord. The Censor's devotion
is unquestionable. He has withstood much in the way of very personal
enmity for his person, position and deeds. Still, he is a figure of
enormous authority, a member of a small and original minority that
wishes to guide its creation towards its own desired ends. In of
itself, that desire is worthy of esteem. I trust no man who defends
not the work of his human hands.

Quirites, Nova Roma fairs differently than the usual act of
creation. It does not pretend, in the totality of its member's
actions, to be merely a drama, a novel, a song, or a work of art.
Nova Roma is community, for now an electronic city, but destined for
greater glory if certain objective conditions are met. As a
community, especially one composed almost entirely of immigrants, it
is subject to the immediacy of change unknown to other willful acts
of human creation. Only two persons can genuinely claim to be the
founders of this city. The remainder of us have come here, to add or
tents to the roadside, our temples beside the future grand avenues,
and our words to the forum.

As a community founded by an interested minority, we experience
problems common to all communities of its kind. An immigrant to a
city of several hundred, in some case thousands, years of age does
not encounter the same urgency, flux and fruitfulness which is
inavoidable condition of a city newly founded. A older community has
a body of traditions, the words of past leaders, conventions
sanctioned by the test of time, and a large corpus of anecdote,
private devotion, public celebration and common heritage.

Nova Roma has a long way to go before its inhabitants will have such
treasures to cherish, celebrate and defend.

And like all new cities, especially the one bright city to which we
turn, there is a certain threshold at which the old order, though it
have given much and sacrificed more, must realize that's its days as
a center of authority are growing shorter. In the case of Mater
Roma, that threshold was crossed with death (some say murder) of
Romulus, founder of the city. Had he lived beyond his immediate
control of the city's fortunes, it is possible he would have served
his creation as and elder guide, a living memory. Such was not the
case, but Rome was fortunate that Romulus was followed by Numa.

Without new blood, and the active encouragement of new ideas and
practices, the old order threatens its self with institutional
stagnation. The heydey of foundation gives way easily to the
timocratic, or favoritist, promotion of subordinates. Subordination
to an authority becomes the means to achieve future authority.
Integrity and ingenuity - the hallmarks of a thriving res publica -
atrophy.

I, for one, do not wish to replace any member of the old order with
myself. New to the City, I have yet to ring my name with long
service or useful contribution. Like all immigrants, I must learn
how and where to make my mark. For the record, political offices are
not really my cup of tea anyway. I prefer the soup kitchens, feast
days, academies and long walks along the Tiber with a friend. My
recent citizenship does allow my some of the advantages of the
outsider. I have few entrenched loyalties, and am not plunged daily
into the rough and tumble of governance. Therefore, some of the
traits and applications of authority are seen with greater clarity to
one such as myself, than they would to one who wields the power of
the rods and the axe.

That I have no desire for office or power does not preclude me from
stating that I believe that the considerable authority given to
magistrates by the Nova Roman constitution could be used with more
consideration, grace and wit. I would even go further in stating
that the constitution suffers from an institutionally injurious
imbalance of power. I would also add that the original Romans (and I
am synopsizing) sought to lend equilibrium to the balance of power
with a strong tribunate.

Power held too long in the hands of an officer, notwithstanding the
role or function of the office, tends to alter the perceptions of the
person, and the application of the powers of said office.

Romulus died, and Rome still prospered.

The prosperity of Nova Roma may depend on allegorically similar event.

In gratitude,

Ias.

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Draco. Oh well.
From:	"Pompeia Cornelia" <scriba_forum@-------->
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 02:29:45 -0000

Salve Pater, Nerva et Omnes:

Let us recap. Nerva/Festus was admitted one month premature to his six
month anniversary date, right? Censor Cincinnatus was doing the
paperwork/admissions at the time, and somehow, Nerva slipped in ahead of
time.

I understand Pater from recent posts that you were the one who gave
Senator Cincinnatus the information on the resignation date/time of Nerva to
the best of your knowledge.

Nerva, allow me to ask you a question. Would you *not know* or atleast be
able to *approximate* your date of resignation so that Censor Cincinnatus
would have a reasonable framework from which to check the mainlist and/or
Censorial archives for confirmation of the exact date?

You have demonstrated a finely tuned memory when it comes to other events in
Nova Roma's history, yet you cannot furnish the Censors with your own
information?

Nerva. This may not be the censors' fault. Their involvement can be
reasonably conceived, in my view, by the word "whoops". Too bad you
didn't/couldn't have been of more assistance to them.

Valete,
Pompeia

Pompeia

>From: "L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@-------->
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: <novaroma@-------->
>Subject: Re: [novaroma] Draco. Oh well.
>Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 16:41:24 -0700
>
>on 5/29/01 4:30 PM, Marcus Octavius Germanicus at haase@-------- wrote:
>
> >> What I called for was for you to take me on in a properly constituted
>Nova
> >> Roma trial.
> >
> > Trial? For what? Draco's allegation that you were admitted prematurely
> > is known to all to be factual.
> >
>
>Senator, you know that was not all of Draco's point. You know his primary
>reason, it was his assumption that I was the one who did the violation. He
>was wrong. This issue has been brought up a number of times...and he was
>wrong. Was he mature enough to admit his mistake....even when my colleague
>admitted he was the one who approved the application. Draco implied
>massive
>corruption in the office of the Censorship. You yourself even admitted
>that
>was not true....we just did not have all of the information available to us
>in a capactity where we could utilize it.
>
>Please, lets stop this non-sense...Draco had some facts right..but others
>TOTALLY off base. Was Draco mature enough to admit is error....NO. Lets
>leave it at that. I guess at this point we should agree to disagree
>Senator.
>
>Respectfully,
>
>Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Excessive Response
From:	gcassiusnerva@--------
Date:	Tue, 29 May 2001 23:55:41 EDT

Senator Audens,

Sir, I have to wonder if the title of your post, 'Excessive Response' is
a reference to Sulla's posting rate, or to the length of your own Formosanian
epic.
This should have been done in email Senator. I know you are a Consular,
and that Sulla is a Consular/Censor. Personal rebukes from one politician to
another as to how the one does his job is best left in the private realm.
I have abolutely no doubt you are sincere when you say you care for the
public image of NR. But did this post of yours in public help NRs image in
your opinion?

As for Sulla, in my view he is not out of line whatsoever. If he is
attacked publicly, he certainlky is right to respond publicly. And all these
resignees you say blame Sulla for their departure....who are they?
Embezzelers? People who share Senatorial correspondecne with private
citizens {as in the case of Livia Marcia's governorship}? Paranoids who share
IM conversations with unsuspecting 'friends' in support of lunatic
conspiracy theories? People who plan to disrupt NR elections?

Frankly sir, if Sulla is responsible for the loss of these people, he could
be voted at least a Civic Crown.

No disrespect is intended Senator. I am puzzled by your post this evening.
If there are any issues between us perhaps we can discuss them at Roman Days
over a drink.

Gaius Cassius Nerva

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[novaroma] Gens
From:	TSardonicus@--------
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 00:01:18 EDT

In a message dated 5/29/01 6:31:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
kminer_rsg@-------- writes:

> I would like to publicly congratulate sulla for convincing a member of my
> gens to jump ship.

My friend, Caska, I would prefer to discuss this off-list. However, this
post put me in an awkward position. Just for the record, Sulla did not
recruit me. I petitioned him.

It is a matter of the difference in focus of the two Gentes. The Tiberi are
predominately interested in re-enactment. I admire that expression of our
love for history and it is one of the reasons I applied for admission to Gens
Tiberi when I became a Citizen of Nova Roma. However, I felt like a fish out
of water because I don't have the funds to invest in a soldier's kit and
travel to events...and I probably won't for some time.

I did not discuss these things with you and that is my fault. During my
disheartened attempt to reconcile my Citizenship with all of the BS on the
main list, I spoke to several people. Sulla was one of them. I witnessed
actions by his family members that I admired.

>
> Sardonicus is a good man, I hope you have not led him too astray

I thank you for that and I assure you that I am not being led astray. I'm
too opinionated for that :)

>
> may your gens grow and flourish...
>

It is my wish that we remain friends. When and if I find the means to aquire
the needed shiny pointy things, I hope that I may stand by your side
regardless of our Nomen. I also hope that on one of your trips to the city
we can meet for a cup of wine and a laugh.

I would like to keep the rest of our discussion on this subject between you
and I.

Vale,
Sardonicus

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Once a Roman...
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Jerry=20Anguston?= <gaiussentius@-------->
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 14:19:50 +1000 (EST)

Salve Draco,

It's great to see you back...after all, what would
Rome be without a Marcus Livius Drusus?:-) Bene
fortuna, mi Draco.

Vale bene,

Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura

Legatus Australia Medius
Sacerdos Mars Invictus

--- "S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
Salvete Quirites, 
 
Even though I had not expected to say these words;
after so much kind comments and feelings of friendship
expressed, how could I ignore the call of Roma? Once a
Roman, always a Roman, I suppose. Gratias maximas ago,
amicis meis! 
 
Valete bene! 
Sextus Apollonius Draco 
 
 
"Jeder f�r sich, und Gott gegen allen." 
 
 
[Non-text portions of this message have been
removed] 
 
</tt>

 



<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
<td align=center><font size="-1"


Subject:	[novaroma] Excessive Response and selling out
From:	"Oppius Flaccus Severus" <oppiusflaccus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 29 May 2001 21:30:10 -0700

Salvete Quiritibus;

Well, well well now Senator Audens! I must say, "Excessive
Response" is quite an excellent description of your 'response'
to Censor Sulla. Before I say to you what needs to be said,
you are also to be congratulated on being a lot more direct
in your criticism of someone. You are typically so much more
oblique.

I will not respond to all the points in your post, as with
those posts by Formosanus; they are too full of extreme
rhetoric. Likely you may find mine to be so as well; but you
well know me by know to be a forthright individual.
It is extremely unfortunate that you have decided to descend
to the tactics of Draco and Formosanus and I am sure, will
gladly welcome you as 'amice.'

Citizens of Nova Roma;

<snipped>
Audens:
I have also been honest, straightforward, and forthright,
which in my humble estimation is what the citizens of Nova Roma expect
and desire.

OFS: Certainly forthright in this post, honest no. You simply
have a different; decidedly "older" version of what you feel
you want here. You also break trust of those that communicate
privately with you as indicated in your response. This is not
honesty.

Senator / Censor Sulla;

<snipped>

Audens:
Must you always return each comment with an attack??

OFS: The pot and the kettle...

<snipped>

Audens:
Enough already!!!!!!!!

OFS: The only point we're likely to agree on here is that
Sulla *does* post too much. He *does* get too emotionally
involved. You might do well to remember there, mi 'old father
'virtue' that much of the posting is to defend other
magistrates, defend the Senate, defend legislation that
possibly even you even supported, etc. He is *always*
the one to pay for it while you and the other shadow
magistrates you mention sit in the background. Yeah,
let someone else take the heat. A nice strategy to be
sure and great work when you can get it.

You claim to know what Sulla is about; but you do not.
I thought I 'knew' what you were about -but I see now
that I was horribly wrong. The rest of Nova Roma will
now see this as well. -For that, I thank you.

Audens:
Most of those who have left NR, to my questions, have cited your
responsibility in some guise or another.

OFS: Most of those that have left were part of a 'faction'
that also accused *you* among others of Oligarchy and all
sorts of nasty things that made you and others upset. Those
that left in the past had it out equally for THREE magistrates
in particular, Sulla being only one. The other two have
'sat it out' of much of the more virulent discussions on
related matters. Of those that threatened to leave recently,
one could also say that this was simply a test, a blatant
manipulation. Had it not been, the resignations would
have been announced privately to the appropriate individuals.
I don't for one moment believe that certain individuals ever *intended*
to leave. A quick test of public opinion. I see from your
other posts that you are now part of that group. Well,
so be it. Alliances shift quickly in the world of politics.

Since you are so adroit at playing 'old man virtue,' perhaps
you might also do well to remember that Censor Sulla has
been responsible for bringing *in* more quality cives to
Nova Roma than any of those that accuse him of the usual
things could ever come close to doing.

<snipped>

Audens:
I cringe when I see a comment from you on this list <snipped>

OFS: As I will now likely do when I see yet another post
from you on some high and mighty admonishment that might
be dished out.

<snipped>

Audens:
<snipped>

One of the marks of a good politician is to, "Shut Up and
Listen." I certainly wish you could learn that simple lesson.

OFS: Yes, it sounds like quite astute advice doesn't it Audens?

Audens:
I have
been assured by those who I have spoken to about your past antics and
stumbles, that you are "worth saving" and since you and I are both
elected Magistrates, I am required to support your actions and words to
a certain degree. I respect my colleagues evaluations, but I must say,
"You are becoming a heavy burden to carry--how about a little help????"

OFS: This is where you have reached the bottom of the pit you've
been so busy digging. You have pulled the Draco game of listing
anonymous personages in your attempt at personal attack. Your
shattered truths and broken confidences will now be a questionnable
matter of what is 'worth saving.' Since you have taken this public
(which you very well should have kept private like a good, respectful
person...) who are *all these magistrates*? Do they share your
propensity for breaking trust? It is doubtful good sir.

Audens:
Now I am sure that your "pen" is poisd to refute my comments, but I ask
that you hold that pen for at least two days---reflect on my words---ask
at least three people with whom we both work in government to be
brutally frank with you about the content of this post. When you have
done that --- then flame away--but until you have done that, frankly I
am not interested.

OFS: Actually, I care less than nothing *what* you're interested
in. This is not the way it works -one doesn't get to stand on the
Rostra; attempt to shred the personage and character of another, then get to
run away and say "I'm not going to listen to you until I decide to."
Nope, sorry. You want to defame on the Rostra; you're playing in
the big time. This response is for the public consumption -if you
choose to stay away for a few days, that's your perogative.

<snipped>

Audens:
<first part snipped> but I have
endured Sulla's presence now for three years, I have been forced in
numerous occasions to "pick up after him" for the good of Nova Roma.

OFS: It is now you who is being endured, along with your
obstructionist ideals. You throw empty character assasination
around like it was free candy and pull a Draco with your
comments above. Why don't you send us a bulleted list as
to the specific items that you've 'picked up'? Else, you
just engage in Formosanian ad hominem attack. Get real.

Audens:
I
have chastised him in private and before the Senate for a variey of
reasons,and I have also agreed and praised him as I thought appropriate.

OFS: So, now we add your blatant condescension to the list?

Audens:
I have counseled him, and I have spoken privately with him by telephone
and have explained my feelings as I would to a member of my family, and
I know that he has had some problems from which he is recovering in the
past. However, the foregoing words and efforts do not seem to have had
any effect whatsoever, and I feel that what I have said had to be said
here. I have no problem in saying these words because they are based on
what I know to be true, and in my view necessary for Nova Roma.

OFS: Personal information. Not something that should have been
made public. How would you like it if everyone revealed the contents
of your phone calls? Your phrase "what I know to be true" is so
conveniently applied by others here in NR -but Senator, we're not
buying. I could also say "what I know to be true" -but without
enumerated evidence and something more than ad hominem; it becomes
nothing more than that now does it?

We are not 'seeking' your counsel sir. We do not need you to be
our self-appointed wise and cantankerous 'experienced' citizen.
It strikes me as overtly pompous that you would consistently see
yourself in this role, or that you would assume that we would
appoint you to such a role.

<snipped>

Audens:
----In short, think about what you say!!!!!

OFS: Sounds like worthy advice doesn't it (excessive exclamation
points omitted.)

Audens:
----Be sure that if what you have to say is negative, in whatever venue,
you and Nova Roma will regret it!!!!!!

OFS: As will you.

Audens:
----You are a Magistrate. Your will already be two of three strikes
down because of political opponents. Don't do yourself in completely by
opening your mouth and inserting the whole of your Senatorial Sandals
for the third strike. It hurts Nova Roma!!!!

OFS: Yes, it does hurt Nova Roma -doesn't it Senator...

Audens:
-----If you think there is even the slightest chance that you shouldn't
say what you are about to say---You're RIGHT!!!!!!---Don't say it!!!!!

OFS: You're just full of all sorts of interesting advice. Do you
by any chance listen to yourself, or are you of the 'do as I say,
not as I do' school?

Audens:
-----Think More---Write Less!!!!!!!

OFS: I was just about to suggest something along those lines.
Perhaps you need a little more 'TV' and a little less 'Web' in your
'WebTV.' It might help ease some of your issues.

<snipped>

Audens:
it!!!!!!! You have position, RESPECT it!!!!!!!!!!

OFS: Well said Senator! Something that perhaps *all* our
magistrates should remember no?

Bene valete,
Oppius

<snipped>

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Draco. Oh well.
From:	gcassiusnerva@--------
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 00:38:19 EDT

Salve Pompeia,

Your question is a good one, but it is a bit late I think. All of us,
myself and both Censors, have already publiclly acknowledged our dropping the
ball in this. Sure, I could have done better. Cincinnatus could have done
better. We all could have done better. That is not the issue at this point.
What is at issue are charges that this was some kind of deliberate
action. Read Sulla's answer to Octavius, and you will see the distinction.

Nerva

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Tapestries...
From:	CmndrZil@--------
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 00:46:00 EDT

I meant to respond to quite a few things last night, but things got out of
control... and well, I was lucky enough to learn something: There is never a
good reason to drink eight cups of coffee in two hours just before bed. It
doesn't matter how many friends don't fail a course because you do, it just
isn't worth it the next day when they decide to blow off the final anyway.

And so, I apologize for my slow response, but I'd probably do it all again if
she asked. I managed to read most of the tapestry responses and save them,
with the exception of one because I hit delete and not keep as new and, you
don't care, do you?

A lot of really cool ideas were mentioned. I think I might go with a
religious theme, but the mythological idea suggested by Aeternia seemed
really neat too. I thought about the Paris golden apple idea that Labienus
Fortunatus suggested, but its just too powerful and I wouldn't possibly be
able to do it justice.

Now I have more ideas than I had before. I was also thinking about doing
something with Creation. Maybe just a scene where man is looking up towards
the heavens, and the animals cannot, or maybe when the two people were
throwing rocks behind them that sprung to people.

The more I think about it, the more the size of the tapestry itself shrinks.
My original idea was this huge, room filling thing you would imagine in a
temple that was attended by virgins or something, but practical thought is
influencing me. (I hate it when that happens. Practical thought is no fun.)
I could do a MUCH SMALLER wall hanging, or a cloak. I guess that will
depend on if I can find out how to make a loom.

Tonight, there will be no crises, no emergencies, and no conversations with
anyone who could have possibly forgotten to pick up a final, and I will get
to look that up at a leisurely pace.

Thanks a lot,
Tarquinia Euphemia

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Draco. Oh well.
From:	"Pompeia Cornelia" <scriba_forum@-------->
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 04:51:52 -0000

Salvete Nerva:

My response is late Nerva? How so? If this is still being discussed in the
forum, my post cannot be considered "late".

If there was a post where you took partial responsibility for this mess, I
must of missed it. If so, I apologize. I sincerely do not recall seeing
it, however.

Pompeia

>From: gcassiusnerva@--------
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: novaroma@--------
>Subject: Re: [novaroma] Draco. Oh well.
>Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 00:38:19 EDT
>
>Salve Pompeia,
>
> Your question is a good one, but it is a bit late I think. All of
>us,
>myself and both Censors, have already publiclly acknowledged our dropping
>the
>ball in this. Sure, I could have done better. Cincinnatus could have done
>better. We all could have done better. That is not the issue at this
>point.
> What is at issue are charges that this was some kind of deliberate
>action. Read Sulla's answer to Octavius, and you will see the distinction.
>
>Nerva
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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Subject:	[novaroma] Soyez bienvenu mon cher ami Draco Fr./Eng.
From:	octavianuslucius@--------
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 04:58:17 -0000

Salve optime amice.
Je suis tr�s content que tu sois de nouveau avec nous. Bienvenu!!!
Vale bene
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus

Salve optime amice.
I am very happy that you be again with us. Welcome!!!!
Vale bene
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Excessive Response
From:	"Nick R. Ramos Jr." <nramos@-------->
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 05:10:18 -0000

Salve, Pater Conscriptus Audens!

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I am amazed at this. At once you attack
a man for defending himself and the Res Publica from extremist
attacks and hyperbole such as "Nazi" and "oligarch", and tell him
that he must be silent for two days before he has your permission to
respond. Do you truly believe that this public diatribe is conducive
to the good health of Nova Roma? Do you truly think that Sulla is the
sole person responsible for the acrimony here? Senator, I am tempted
to do a routing and packet ID analysis on this posting, because from
your statements to date, this almost seems like a forged post to me.
Hades, I am almost hoping it is, because if it truly came from you, I
now have very serious doubts about your grasp on reality and the
information you have been provided on this entire mess.

A lot of your advice is excellent - perhaps you might have begun by
tasting your own tonic, sir. I have seen a lot of bombast lately, and
as far as that goes, this post has been a veritable Minie ball
through the body of our Res Publica.

As one who has always held you in the highest regard, both as a
fellow Nova Roman and a fellow Navy man, I am nothing short of
shocked about this post. You have shaken my faith in your abilities,
and perhaps in the Res Publica, to the core. Yes, Sulla posts a lot,
and perhaps he may not be always wise, but he posts from his heart -
was that not what you were admiring in others such a short while ago?
Yet you single him out for chastening, and in such a public fashion
so as to invite an almost certain adversarial response. Why? Cui
bono, mi Audens?

Optime vale, in Pace Deorum
Marius Cornelius Scipio
Aedilis Curulis
Legatus, California Septentrionalis

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Excessive Response
From:	"Nick R. Ramos Jr." <nramos@-------->
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 05:10:44 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, jmath669642reng@w... wrote:
> Citizens of Nova Roma;
>
> Although this message is directed at one person it could well be
> indicative to many here, and I write this message in full
realization of
> what I am saying and the consequences it will bring, but I feel
such is
> long overdue, and I further feel that in all honesty, I must say it-
-in
> keeping with who I am, the station I am privaledged to hold, and in
the
> fact that I fear no election of the people or selection of my peers.
> Simply because if I have been abrupt, argumentative, opinionated and
> attitudinal--I have also been honest, straightforward, and
forthright,
> which in my humble estimation is what the citizens of Nova Roma
expect
> and desire.
>
> Senator / Censor Sulla;
>
> Can you not ever silence your knee jerk responses?? Can you not
leave
> your opponents some dignity in their views? Can you not limit your
> views to something even remotely resembling thoughtful
communicaions??
> Must you always return each comment with an attack??
>
> A large percentage of the posts on this list in relation to the
numbers
> of our population are yours, and I get the distinct impression that
you
> cannot let any question, any comment, any revelation go by without
your
> comment, your eternal comment, and your eternal opinion which has /
have
> been repeated even more often than have those of another demagouge.
> Enough already!!!!!!!!1
>
> Most of those who have left NR, to my questions, have cited your
> responsibility in some guise or another. Most of the acrimony on
this
> Main List has been either caused or accelerated by your remarks
which
> are calculated to irritate a "marble statue." You are in the
middle of
> virtually every argument on this Main List. I cringe when I see a
> comment from you on this list because I fear that it will be yet
another
> remark which will garner NR another set-back and /or "black eye" in
some
> small or large way and will necessitate yet another defense of your
> inarticulate efforts to justify your actions, your words or both.
>
> I acknowledge that you are a hard worker for Nova Roma, and I also
> acknowledge that you may well have her best interests at heart, and
I
> recognize that you like I have been placed in our position by the
> Citizens----but I do question some of your methods and I definately
> question your inability to allow your opponents a little dignity
and to
> review their ideas in the light of possible good points and
solutions
> for NR. One of the marks of a good politician is to, "Shut Up and
> Listen." I certainly wish you could learn that simple lesson. I
have
> been assured by those who I have spoken to about your past antics
and
> stumbles, that you are "worth saving" and since you and I are both
> elected Magistrates, I am required to support your actions and
words to
> a certain degree. I respect my colleagues evaluations, but I must
say,
> "You are becoming a heavy burden to carry--how about a little
help????"
>
> Now I am sure that your "pen" is poisd to refute my comments, but I
ask
> that you hold that pen for at least two days---reflect on my words--
-ask
> at least three people with whom we both work in government to be
> brutally frank with you about the content of this post. When you
have
> done that --- then flame away--but until you have done that,
frankly I
> am not interested.
>
> To the Gens Cornellii:
>
> I know next to nothing about the Gens nor is it any of my
business. My
> above comments are not directed at Sulla the Paterfamilias but
rather
> Sulla the politician. Before you respond to this message, consider
> that, please.
>
> In closing, to all Nova Roma Citizens, I am well aware that I am not
> totally innocent of problms, and I am sure that many will disagree
with
> what I have done and said here, and that is your privaledge, but I
have
> endured Sulla's presence now for three years, I have been forced in
> numerous occasions to "pick up after him" for the good of Nova
Roma. I
> have chastised him in private and before the Senate for a variey of
> reasons,and I have also agreed and praised him as I thought
appropriate.
> I have counseled him, and I have spoken privately with him by
telephone
> and have explained my feelings as I would to a member of my family,
and
> I know that he has had some problems from which he is recovering in
the
> past. However, the foregoing words and efforts do not seem to have
had
> any effect whatsoever, and I feel that what I have said had to be
said
> here. I have no problem in saying these words because they are
based on
> what I know to be true, and in my view necessary for Nova Roma.
>
> It may well be that I am wrong in this effort, but considering my
past
> efforts and thier lack of success, the problems which have
occurred, are
> now ocurring and will in all likelihood continue to occur if
something
> is not said, I take it upon myself to say these words. They are
mine
> and mine alone, and they reflect no particular views but mine. I
have
> not asked anyone's permission to voice them, nor will I ever if I
deem
> the words necessary to say.
>
> ----In short, think about what you say!!!!!
>
> ----Be sure that if what you have to say is negative, in whatever
venue,
> you and Nova Roma will regret it!!!!!!
>
> ----You are a Magistrate. Your will already be two of three strikes
> down because of political opponents. Don't do yourself in
completely by
> opening your mouth and inserting the whole of your Senatorial
Sandals
> for the third strike. It hurts Nova Roma!!!!
>
> -----If you think there is even the slightest chance that you
shouldn't
> say what you are about to say---You're RIGHT!!!!!!---Don't say
it!!!!!
>
> -----Think More---Write Less!!!!!!!
>
> Take a page from your past and present Censorial Colleagues. They
did /
> do thier work well and quietly. Thier ideas are well thought out
and
> significant. They ask others to review thier ideas when in doubt.
> Thier comments are always thoughtful, meaningful and even thier
> opponents think carefully before replying. You have friends, use
> them!!! You have intelligence, use it!!!! You have ability, apply
> it!!!!!!! You have position, RESPECT it!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Respectfully;
> Marcus Audens
>
> Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
>
>
> http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Excessive Response
From:	"Gaius Marcius Coriolanus" <coriolanus@-------->
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 07:03:42 -0000

Salvete

Senator Audens
Really good speach, I agree with you in lot of things. You've frankly
said what you've think and that's really what Roman Virtus requires.

Gaius Cassius wrote:
> Frankly sir, if Sulla is responsible for the loss of these people,
> he could be voted at least a Civic Crown.

I hope you're joking. This can be told seriously.

G.Marcius Coriolanus

--- In novaroma@--------, jmath669642reng@w... wrote:
> Citizens of Nova Roma;
>
> Although this message is directed at one person it could well be
> indicative to many here, and I write this message in full
realization of
> what I am saying and the consequences it will bring, but I feel
such is
> long overdue, and I further feel that in all honesty, I must say it-
-in
> keeping with who I am, the station I am privaledged to hold, and in
the
> fact that I fear no election of the people or selection of my peers.
> Simply because if I have been abrupt, argumentative, opinionated and
> attitudinal--I have also been honest, straightforward, and
forthright,
> which in my humble estimation is what the citizens of Nova Roma
expect
> and desire.
>
> Senator / Censor Sulla;
>
> Can you not ever silence your knee jerk responses?? Can you not
leave
> your opponents some dignity in their views? Can you not limit your
> views to something even remotely resembling thoughtful
communicaions??
> Must you always return each comment with an attack??
>
> A large percentage of the posts on this list in relation to the
numbers
> of our population are yours, and I get the distinct impression that
you
> cannot let any question, any comment, any revelation go by without
your
> comment, your eternal comment, and your eternal opinion which has /
have
> been repeated even more often than have those of another demagouge.
> Enough already!!!!!!!!1
>
> Most of those who have left NR, to my questions, have cited your
> responsibility in some guise or another. Most of the acrimony on
this
> Main List has been either caused or accelerated by your remarks
which
> are calculated to irritate a "marble statue." You are in the
middle of
> virtually every argument on this Main List. I cringe when I see a
> comment from you on this list because I fear that it will be yet
another
> remark which will garner NR another set-back and /or "black eye" in
some
> small or large way and will necessitate yet another defense of your
> inarticulate efforts to justify your actions, your words or both.
>
> I acknowledge that you are a hard worker for Nova Roma, and I also
> acknowledge that you may well have her best interests at heart, and
I
> recognize that you like I have been placed in our position by the
> Citizens----but I do question some of your methods and I definately
> question your inability to allow your opponents a little dignity
and to
> review their ideas in the light of possible good points and
solutions
> for NR. One of the marks of a good politician is to, "Shut Up and
> Listen." I certainly wish you could learn that simple lesson. I
have
> been assured by those who I have spoken to about your past antics
and
> stumbles, that you are "worth saving" and since you and I are both
> elected Magistrates, I am required to support your actions and
words to
> a certain degree. I respect my colleagues evaluations, but I must
say,
> "You are becoming a heavy burden to carry--how about a little
help????"
>
> Now I am sure that your "pen" is poisd to refute my comments, but I
ask
> that you hold that pen for at least two days---reflect on my words--
-ask
> at least three people with whom we both work in government to be
> brutally frank with you about the content of this post. When you
have
> done that --- then flame away--but until you have done that,
frankly I
> am not interested.
>
> To the Gens Cornellii:
>
> I know next to nothing about the Gens nor is it any of my
business. My
> above comments are not directed at Sulla the Paterfamilias but
rather
> Sulla the politician. Before you respond to this message, consider
> that, please.
>
> In closing, to all Nova Roma Citizens, I am well aware that I am not
> totally innocent of problms, and I am sure that many will disagree
with
> what I have done and said here, and that is your privaledge, but I
have
> endured Sulla's presence now for three years, I have been forced in
> numerous occasions to "pick up after him" for the good of Nova
Roma. I
> have chastised him in private and before the Senate for a variey of
> reasons,and I have also agreed and praised him as I thought
appropriate.
> I have counseled him, and I have spoken privately with him by
telephone
> and have explained my feelings as I would to a member of my family,
and
> I know that he has had some problems from which he is recovering in
the
> past. However, the foregoing words and efforts do not seem to have
had
> any effect whatsoever, and I feel that what I have said had to be
said
> here. I have no problem in saying these words because they are
based on
> what I know to be true, and in my view necessary for Nova Roma.
>
> It may well be that I am wrong in this effort, but considering my
past
> efforts and thier lack of success, the problems which have
occurred, are
> now ocurring and will in all likelihood continue to occur if
something
> is not said, I take it upon myself to say these words. They are
mine
> and mine alone, and they reflect no particular views but mine. I
have
> not asked anyone's permission to voice them, nor will I ever if I
deem
> the words necessary to say.
>
> ----In short, think about what you say!!!!!
>
> ----Be sure that if what you have to say is negative, in whatever
venue,
> you and Nova Roma will regret it!!!!!!
>
> ----You are a Magistrate. Your will already be two of three strikes
> down because of political opponents. Don't do yourself in
completely by
> opening your mouth and inserting the whole of your Senatorial
Sandals
> for the third strike. It hurts Nova Roma!!!!
>
> -----If you think there is even the slightest chance that you
shouldn't
> say what you are about to say---You're RIGHT!!!!!!---Don't say
it!!!!!
>
> -----Think More---Write Less!!!!!!!
>
> Take a page from your past and present Censorial Colleagues. They
did /
> do thier work well and quietly. Thier ideas are well thought out
and
> significant. They ask others to review thier ideas when in doubt.
> Thier comments are always thoughtful, meaningful and even thier
> opponents think carefully before replying. You have friends, use
> them!!! You have intelligence, use it!!!! You have ability, apply
> it!!!!!!! You have position, RESPECT it!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Respectfully;
> Marcus Audens
>
> Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
>
>
> http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

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Subject:	[novaroma] Joinig the chorus!
From:	Publius Sentius Rutilianus Dexion <kelibol@-------->
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 10:19:06 +0300

Ave Sextus Apollonius Draco
Though we haven't been introduced I know that you're a
talented young man and
we need your kind here...so allow me to join to the chorus of your
friends and say another
'welcome back!' .....
Vale bene

Publius Sentius Rutilianus Dexion
Civis Novae Romae

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Excessive Response
From:	"Matthias Stappert" <3s@-------->
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 08:35:51 -0000

Salve, Gaie Cassi Nerva,

I will not comment Senator Audens� mail at all. But be sure, he
expresses the thougts and views of many citizens. As it is the right
of the honourable Censor, Consular and Senator Lucius Cornelius Sulla
to express his opinions, views and statements here on this list, it
is the right of the honourable Quaestor, Consular and Senator Marcus
Minucius Audens to do the same. Remember, you have the same right. I
for myself hear all sides, make up my mind on my own and use the same
right now.

--- In novaroma@--------, gcassiusnerva@c... wrote:
> I have abolutely no doubt you are sincere when you say you
care for the
> public image of NR. But did this post of yours in public help NRs
image in
> your opinion?

It�s normal business, isn�t it, Nerva? An open discussion and the
right to use this list for debates does more for the public image of
NR as you think.

> Frankly sir, if Sulla is responsible for the loss of these people,
he could
> be voted at least a Civic Crown.

Frankly, Nerva, you should not include Censor Sulla�s name into such
right-wing statements. This could be misinterpreted by the citizens
and damages the public image of Nova Roma and her Magistrates. If you
have historical knowledge, you may think about what happened 60 years
ago in Germany and what happened over a far longer period of time in
the Soviet Union with people who disagreed on the official political
direction, as those who left us did.

Vale
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Praetor, Senator

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Subject:	[novaroma] Ex domo Propraetoris Galliae
From:	"yquere@--------"<yquere@-------->
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 10:58:50 +0200

Avete Cives, Senatores, Censoresque Novae Romae

I am returned from a few days of intense thinking about
the meaning of my engagment winthin NR, about what could
have been done or what is to be done in Gallia, how much
time I can give to Nova Roma, and how I considered my
Oath I took to NR.

I certainly was not as active as I would have liked, and
relied greatly upon my Legate and friend Sextus
Apollonius Draco. His loss, along with other important
Gaul cives was terrible news for me and stroke me down,
letting me into feelings of dispair, loneliness and
bitterness.
I interpreted the recent posts he had to face, the
constant harrassment and invitation to leave indirectly
for me, and I was wrong.

I was wrong to feel alone for the Oath I took should have
been strong enough to make me realize I have other
citizens to take care of, and that the task I accepted
was only initiated.

I shared my doubts with some of you, and I would
particularly wish to thank Senator Audens and Pompeia
Cornelia for their support and their advice.
Marcus Audens and I exchanged privately and his wisdom
opened my eyes, and helped me getting rid of my anger and
bitter feelings.
I looked in the mirror and asked myself :
� Have I stayed within the rules and bounds of the
guidelines promulgated by my micronation for the position
I held ? �
Until I announced my resignation, definitely YES.
Except my hasteful resignation dictated by impulsive and
negative feelings, I have tried to respect the guidelines
each time.
� Have I been fair to all that I have dealt with �
I think yes, that everything I did or say were in
concordance with what I felt and what my dignity required
me to do. I think I was honest and genuine. But my fault
was to have reacted to quickly without giving me time a
good though before, and I think I am not alone in that
case.

To put it in a nutshell, I considered myself offended by
the constant opposition of some citizens, by verbal abuse
directed to me or my closer friends in Gallia. But I now
realize I was in fact offended by my own weakness and
that the impediment I had to face was none but mine. I
was not determined enough in the performance of my duties
and then weakened by this lack of determination.
In that way I didn�t respected my Oath and wish every
citizen of NR will accept my apologies.

After long thoughs, I thus decided to reconsider my
resignation and I am now determined to strive for making
Gallia a healthy and active Province of Nova Roma.

I know that the resignation of a provincial governor
raised much anger among some of you, I now understand it.
Our cultural differences may introduce a distorsion on
how we, American or European, interprete the meaning of
an oath, but I admit I broke my Oath out of impulsivity
which I never should have done.

I will accept any decision of the Senate reconsidering my
propraetorship, but I ask for a second chance.
This endeavor made me stronger and I am most determined
to do my best for NR and Gallia. I will fulfill my word
and obligations.

Bene Valete
Maxima Fortuna Deorum Novae Romae Vitatque Provincia
Gallia

Ianus Querius Armoricus Lutecio

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Ex domo Propraetoris Galliae
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 09:26:32 -0000

I Welcome you back!!

Yes, People often become frustrated, and because of this I praise the
9 day period to reflect on a resignation.

Senators, Consider this post an open endorsement that the Propraetor
should be allowed to continue with his duties, for we all make mistakes.

Vale
L. Sicinius Drusus

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Excessive Response
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 09:48:17 -0000

Salvete Quirites,

Well that was a rather amazing breach of protocol.

One Senator publically Chastizing certainly does not improve the
Dignitas of Nova Roma, and I would add the Dignitas of the Senator who
took this task apon himself.

Senator Audens, wasn't it you who once chided Formosanus for seeking
to become the Moral Spokesman for Nova Roma, a Role that you assumed
last night?

Wouldn't it have been a little more respectful of Censor Sulla's
Dignitas if you had mailed him a copy of your manifastio, with a
warning that if he continued with the actions that you find so
objectible, that you would make the statement public.

If you did in fact bother with such a detail, Censor Sulla did NOT
recive it, and was shocked by your unexpected broadside. I know
because when it hit the mainlist we were having a conversation. (It
concerned restoring his 1959 Chevy for those of you worried about what
evil plot the Censor and I were discussing)

Valete,
L. Sicinius Drusus

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Subject:	[novaroma] Once a Roman and more than one more Roman
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@-------->
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 13:24:54 +0200

>Salvete Quirites,
>
>Even though I had not expected to say these words; after so much kind
>comments and feelings of friendship expressed, how could I ignore the call
>of Roma? Once a Roman, always a Roman, I suppose. Gratias maximas ago,
>amicis meis!
>
>Valete bene!
>Sextus Apollonius Draco

Salve Honorable Sextus Apollonius Draco! (Excuse my bad Latin)

You are back! So our appeal to You to reconsider was a "success".
Wonderful, now Nova Roma seems more meaningful, then during these two
periods, when a lot of citizens left and nearly noone came back.. I have
really enjoyed these last days when at least three honorable men who have
made the mistake of leaving Nova Roma decided to come back. Congratulations
Nova Roma!

And yes, Honorable Sextus Apollonius Draco congratulations to your
birthday! :-)

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
Join the List for the Thule Provincia in Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThuleNovaRoma/join
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://www.acc.umu.se/~kerish/novaroma/main.html
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
Caeso, he who also is known as Christer Edling.
************************************************
Using a keyboard that don't want to make L! :-(
************************************************
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Ex domo Propraetoris Galliae
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 05:06:45 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete omnes; et salve, I. Queri Armorice.

Welcome back to Nova Roma. Nice to see you among us again.

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.

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Subject:	[novaroma] public appology for Sardonicus and Sulla
From:	"Cascus Tiberius Rufio Longinus" <kminer_rsg@-------->
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 08:22:38 -0400

To both of you I offer a sincere appology and one free swift kick in the
rear of my tunic!!!

With all the banter on the list about "politics, etc." and the mass exodus
coupled with my public feelings that it all needs to stop. I took things
for granted and out of context...

to sulla the pater not the senator et al...

as a father loses a child to another family through the course of living a
full life. I hope you accept my appology and explination as any father
losses a member of their family it stings a bit....

and to you good Sardonicus,

I wish you the best and know you will always have an extended family in
Tiberia...

and the first glasses are on me (for a while, until I don't feel so crappy
about this!!!)

humbly

Casca...

Cascus Tiberius Rufio Longinus
Praefectus Legionis & Tribuni Militum
Legio VI Victrix Pia Fidelis
Pater, Gens Tiberia of Nova Roma

"Nos Sumus Romae milites, parati stamus ad potestatem et gloriam eius. Roma
est Lux."
"we are soldiers of Rome, for her might and glory we stand ready... She is
the Light"

www.geocities.com/legio_vi

_________________________________________________________________
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Subject:	[novaroma] The Announcements List
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 08:45:50 -0400

Salvete

Two reminders about the Nova Roma Announce list. First, if anyone finds
themselves overwhelmed by the volume of traffic here on the NovaRoma list,
but still wants to be kept informed regarding official business (calls to
vote, edicta, vote results, etc.), they are welcome to subscribe. It is a
low-traffic list which is 100% moderated to prevent off-topic messages. Just
go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NovaRomaAnnounce and subscribe. (There's
no need to subscribe to both that list and this list, by the way.)

Second, the list is intended solely for official business by magistrates and
other officials of the central government, and/or news of the greatest
importance to the entire populace. Specifically, I'm getting a lot of
provincial edicta posted to the announcements list, and having to delete
them. Too, oaths of office, announcements of a personal nature, etc. are not
what the list was created for. Please keep such things here or on other
appropriate lists.

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org

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Subject:	[novaroma] Open Governorships
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 08:53:24 -0400

Flavius Vedius Germanicus novaromanis S.P.D.

The following governorships are either vacant or open, and candidates
seeking to fill these positions are invited to contact the Consuls
(consuls@--------), who will present your petition to the Senate.
Petitions should include your qualifications for the position of governor
(see http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/sen00020601.htm for the minimum
standards enacted by the Senate), intentions and plans if and when you are
appointed, and any other information you think would be relevant to the
Senate's decision.

* Gallia (France, Belgium, Netherlands)
* Italia (Italy)
* Hispania (Spain)
* Sarmatia (Russia)
* America Austrorientalis (SE United States)
* Mediatlantica (Mid-Atlantic United States)
* Mexico

Also, I am intending to step down as governor of Mediatlantica provincia. I
find that my other duties are simply too demanding to continue the added
responsibilities of governor. I will be stepping down as soon as a suitable
replacement is found.

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Ex domo Propraetoris Galliae
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@-------->
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 15:17:48 +0200

>Avete Cives, Senatores, Censoresque Novae Romae

>I know that the resignation of a provincial governor
>raised much anger among some of you, I now understand it.
>Our cultural differences may introduce a distorsion on
>how we, American or European, interprete the meaning of
>an oath, but I admit I broke my Oath out of impulsivity
>which I never should have done.
>
>I will accept any decision of the Senate reconsidering my
>propraetorship, but I ask for a second chance.
>This endeavor made me stronger and I am most determined
>to do my best for NR and Gallia. I will fulfill my word
>and obligations.
>
>Bene Valete
>Maxima Fortuna Deorum Novae Romae Vitatque Provincia
>Gallia
>
>Ianus Querius Armoricus Lutecio

Salve Illustrus Propraetor Ianus Querius Armoricus Lutecio!
Well done and welcome back! I hope You will be able to continue at your
post as my collegue!

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
Join the List for the Thule Provincia in Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThuleNovaRoma/join
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://www.acc.umu.se/~kerish/novaroma/main.html
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
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************************************************
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************************************************
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Subject:	[novaroma] Edictum Praetoricium: Establishment of Municipalities in Germania
From:	"Stappert" <3s@-------->
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 15:25:45 +0200

Ex Officio Praetoris Germaniae

Edictum Praetoricium
about the establishment of municipalities
in the province of Germania

I. The regions of the province of Germania can
be subdivided into municipalities. The municipalities
fulfill their duties on their own responsibility under
the supervision of the legates, if there is no legate
appointed, under the supervision of the governor.

II. The establishment of municipalities lays in the
competence of the governor. He can delegate this authority
to the appointed legates.

III. The muncipalities are established, for application,
by an edictum. All citizens of Nova Roma resident in the
province have the right to apply. The Edictum shall contain
the official designation of the municipality and shall define
the status and the residence of the municipality.

IV. The status of the municipalities shall be defined as follows:

Colonia
a minimum of 5 Nova Roma citizens required

Municipium
a minimum of 3 Nova Roma citizens required. The status of Municipium
shall be historically proofed. If the status of Municipium is not
historically proofed, the municipality has the status of Civitas.

Civitas
a minimum of 3 Nova Roma citizens required.

Vicus
a minimum of 1 Nova Roma citizen required.

A municipality can reach the next higher status if it has the sufficient
number of citizens. The legate, if there is no legate appointed the
governor,
approves the higher status by his discretion. The status of Municipium
shall only
be granted, if it can be historically proofed.

V. The municipalities decide on their internal constitution and on
their administrative structure on their own responsibility. The founding
edictum shall nominate a responsible person for the founded municipality.
If the municipality elects officials, their names shall be reported to
the legate after they assumed office.

VI. Administrative tasks of the province can be delegated on the
municipalities
by edictum.

VII. The legates of Germania Superior and Raetia/Noricum are given the
authority to
found and approve municipalities in their regions.

VIII. This Edictum becomes effective immediately.

May 30 in the year of the consulship of Flavius Vedius Germanicus and
Marcus Cassius Iulianus, 2754 AUC.

Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Praetor, Senator
Governor of Germania

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Ex domo Propraetoris Galliae
From:	ksterne@--------
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 13:56:40 -0000

Salve Iane Queri

Welcome "back".

Gaius Popillius Laenas

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Excessive Response
From:	ksterne@--------
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 14:40:18 -0000

Salve Marce Minuci et Salvete Quirites,

Senator I have come to have much respect for you reading your posts
since I became a cive as well as scanning through the archives, and I
must say I am surprised by this public post.

I consider Lucius Cornelius to be a friend. He has always been
willing to help me, and I have seen his frequent offers to help
others. He has done much work and recruiting for Nova Roma and he
has invested much of his own money. I know you have made invaluable
contributions to NR as well.

Frankly, if Lucius Cornelius is defensive, I don't blame him. He
sometimes seems to be under attach from all sides. I am sure he is
saddened by you post and your failure to discuss your concerns
privately with him.

Perhaps you will clarify why you flet this post to be so necessary.

Valete,
Gaius Popillius Laenas

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Ex domo Propraetoris Galliae
From:	"Nick R. Ramos Jr." <nramos@-------->
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 14:51:32 -0000

Salve, Most Honorable Ianus Querius Armoricus Lutecio

It is with great joy, and no small measure of relief, that I welcome
you back to our Res Publica. I have always seens in your postings the
thoughts and expressions of a very honourable and upright man, and an
excellent Propraetor Galliae.

If in any way my words or actions contributed to your decision to
leave, mea apologias, mi Lutece. When you have posted here, you have
very eloquently expressed your positions, without resorting to the
innuendos and personal attacks that have become such common weapons in
the Forum. It is indeed a good day today.

Optime vale, et Iuppiter nos protegas!

Marius Cornelius Scipio
Aedilis Curulis

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Subject:	[novaroma] Bonum Natale, Draco
From:	"Nick R. Ramos Jr." <nramos@-------->
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 14:55:27 -0000

Salve, Mi Draco!
ET BONUM NATALE, AMICI MEI!
(Yeah, I know my Latin is terrible, but Happy Birthday anyways)

Marius Cornelius Scipio

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: [Mid] Major Used Book Sale in Fenix (Cincinnati)
From:	asseri@--------
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 11:04:40 EDT

Hello all,
I saw this on the SCA- Middle kingdom e-mail list and thought to pass this on
NR
memebrs that may live in the area.
Prima Ancinna Drusila

In a message dated 5/29/01 11:27:44 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
Gregor1572@-------- writes:

> Greetings!
>
> Just wanted to let everyone know that the Friends of the Public Library of
> Cincinnati and Hamilton County will hold their annual used book sale June
> 4-8, 2001 on Fountain Square. They advertise, "Books, Records, Videos &
> More."
>
> I try to make it to at least 2 days of the sale each year since the do put
> out more books each day. I have found wonderful art books, plays,
> recordings
> and other sundry books every time I go. And Friday is "Bag Day" where you
> pay one price for a bagful of books.
>
> I will list the schedule below.
>
> Your obedient,
>
> Gregor
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Ex domo Propraetoris Galliae
From:	jmath669642reng@--------
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 12:44:06 -0400 (EDT)

Honored Consuls, Censors, Senators and Citizens of Nova Roma;

I most humbly come before you to plead the cause of Ianus Querius
Amoricus Lutecio former Govenor of Gaul.

After my post on the Main List those who left NR, Master Lutecio wrote
me and asked for my views on the Oath and what it meant. We exchanged
several E-Mails and I attempted to not advise him per se, but rather
explain my views to him upon the topic he has addressed. His pride had
been wounded severely, and he was not sure that he could continue
effectively. He was not thinking clearly when he resigned, and like
many of us immediatly regretted his decision, as indicated by his
message to me. Many of us have mde the same mistake under similar
pressures, and I ask for your kind consideration of this matter.

I was pleased to see this morning that he has in fact reconsidered his
views and that my discussion with him had some small effect on his
decision. I am extremely honored that he has mentioned my name in
relation to his revised view.

As I have done before, I now ask your very great indulgence to
re-appoint him to his position as ProPraetor of Gaul, Pro Tem, and allow
him to re-enter the Lists in the coming selection of Govenors for the
Provinces having no govenors. There is a precedence for such an action,
and I ask most humbly that Master Lutecio will be favorably considered
with that precedence in mind.

Very Respectfully;
Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

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Subject:	[novaroma] Your Disappointment
From:	jmath669642reng@--------
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 13:31:11 -0400 (EDT)

Honored Citizens;

I am sorry that you have found my post to be such that you have chosen
to criticise it so deeply. Many others have congratulated me, and I was
well aware that I could not make everyone happy in this matter.

I think that an Impeachment Trial at this point would seriously hurt NR,
and there appears to be no other way to reach Censor Sulla, since I have
tried many times.

Your disagreements and disappointments are noted with respect, since I
never disregard the views of those who share with me even though they be
of an opposing category. The posts that you sent me were expected but
even so there is much in each of value and well worth pondering. I
thank you for your time and effort in letting me know of your concerns.
Such responses were part of my purpose in writing the original post.
No, we have nothing personal between us, and what I have said, as a
Senator I felt needed to be said, but reflects on no-one else.

Respectfully;
Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Ex domo Propraetoris Galliae
From:	"Lucius Equitius" <vze23hw7@-------->
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 14:00:43 -0400

Salvete,

I too endorse Ianus Querius Amoricus Lutecio to continue/resume his post as
Propaetor Galliae.
We are all learing from our experiences in Nova Roma. Let us not only learn
from our own mistakes, triumphs, etc. but be instructed by the examples of
others, good and bad.

One small consideration on the matter of resignations. Perhaps we ought to
consider how the Romans would have viewed resignations, rather than what we
as modern Americans, Europeans, etc. think of them. We are after all suppose
to be emulating the *best* of the Romans.

Valete, Censor Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus

> Honored Consuls, Censors, Senators and Citizens of Nova Roma;
>
> I most humbly come before you to plead the cause of Ianus Querius
> Amoricus Lutecio former Govenor of Gaul.
>
> After my post on the Main List those who left NR, Master Lutecio wrote
> me and asked for my views on the Oath and what it meant. We exchanged
> several E-Mails and I attempted to not advise him per se, but rather
> explain my views to him upon the topic he has addressed. His pride had
> been wounded severely, and he was not sure that he could continue
> effectively. He was not thinking clearly when he resigned, and like
> many of us immediatly regretted his decision, as indicated by his
> message to me. Many of us have mde the same mistake under similar
> pressures, and I ask for your kind consideration of this matter.
>
> I was pleased to see this morning that he has in fact reconsidered his
> views and that my discussion with him had some small effect on his
> decision. I am extremely honored that he has mentioned my name in
> relation to his revised view.
>
> As I have done before, I now ask your very great indulgence to
> re-appoint him to his position as ProPraetor of Gaul, Pro Tem, and allow
> him to re-enter the Lists in the coming selection of Govenors for the
> Provinces having no govenors. There is a precedence for such an action,
> and I ask most humbly that Master Lutecio will be favorably considered
> with that precedence in mind.
>
> Very Respectfully;
> Marcus Audens

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Subject:	[novaroma] Thanks
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 14:19:44 +0200

Salvete Quirites,

A Big Thanks to all those who welcomed me back. Like the rockstars say "love y'all people!" (but where is my guitar?).

Valete bene!
Draco

"Jeder f�r sich, und Gott gegen allen."

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[novaroma] Your Support
From:	jmath669642reng@--------
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 14:46:29 -0400 (EDT)

Master Gaius Marcius Coriolanus;

Sir, I thank you for your support on the Main List, and I would have you
know that you are joined with several gentlemen whom I esteem highly in
thier E-Mail congratulations offlist. Since I have been labelled by
some a "a political animal" I suppose that I must succunb to political
support (Grin!!!!!!!!!!!).

As you have indicated many of those who have left Nova Roma had
significant skills which will be missed including those skills and ideas
of five Senators whose service to NR was beyond reproach. Such was part
of the reason that I wrote the message, was because these five Senators
were my friends, whom I have laughed with, and debated with. They were
not stupid, nor were they unworthy, but they all left for a common
reason. I thought that the citizens should know that, and other things.
Now they are said, and I have fulfilled what I believe to be my
responsibility.

I thank you sir for your support.

Respectfully;
Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

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Subject:	[novaroma] Commerce
From:	"Lucius Mauricius Procopious" <lespeterson@-------->
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 12:12:01 -0700

Salvete Omnes!

Ye gods! My finger is very tired from hitting the delete button so much lately. There are a few headers and a few people I've begun to automatically delete so if I ignore you on the main list you may need to send me a message off list. I for one have been pre-occupied trying to plot and scheme how to build Nova Roma to the best of my abilities.
I have come to two conclusions I would like to share with the group.
I. We (I) need patience. Nova Roma is not going to be what any of us wish it to be today or tomorrow. Maybe the day after if we're lucky. Slow down. Think more. Build better. Leave the fighting to others.
II. We're missing two important "blocks" with which to build our Res Public. One is an active assembly of the Plebs. I hope to help see this institution become much more active. The second missing "block" IMHO is finances. This is where I hope to concentrate my efforts.
Seeking grants is one way to obtain funds. I'll continue to help with this to the best of my ability and encourage others to step forward and help. However, I feel this will not be enough.
We need commerce, business, investments, et cetera. To this end I hope to initiate a discussion about business. It is my hope that if the interest exists we could open a new list with the goal of becoming a Sodality. Or perhaps we would operate under the auspices of the Ordo Equestor?
Anyone else interested in establishing the financial base of our Nation?

Lucius Mauricius Procopious
Propraetor America Boreoccidentalis
(This is an unofficial post for which I assume full responsibility)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
procopious@--------
ICQ# 83516618
*America Boreoccidentalis Mail List
http://www.egroups.com/group/AmBor_Waves
* The Gens Mauricia
http://www.geocities.com/procopious

"Indeed, it is not by the plans of men, but by the hand of God that the affairs of men are directed; and this men call Fate, not knowing the reason for what things they see occur; and what seems to be without cause is easy to call the accident of chance. Still, this is a matter every mortal will decide for himself according to his taste."
-Procopius of Caesarea (in Palestine) [born c.490/507- died c.560s]

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Ex domo Propraetoris Galliae
From:	"Matthias Stappert" <3s@-------->
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 19:35:20 -0000

Salvete, Quirites,

I have nothing to add. Ianus Querius has my support, too.

--- In novaroma@--------, "Lucius Equitius" <vze23hw7@v...> wrote:

> One small consideration on the matter of resignations. Perhaps we
ought to
> consider how the Romans would have viewed resignations, rather than
what we
> as modern Americans, Europeans, etc. think of them. We are after all
suppose
> to be emulating the *best* of the Romans.

Indeed a good suggestion, hon. Censor. Let us find our own, roman,
view.

Valete
Caius Flavius Diocletianus
Praetor, Senator

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Thanks
From:	"Matthias Stappert" <3s@-------->
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 19:37:59 -0000

Salve, Sexte Apolloni,

my "welcome back", too. I�m glad that you reviewed your decision.

By the way: "Jeder f�r sich und Gott f�r uns alle" ;-)

Caius Flavius Diocletianus

--- In novaroma@--------, "S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@p...>
wrote:
> Salvete Quirites,
>
> A Big Thanks to all those who welcomed me back. Like the rockstars
say "love y'all people!" (but where is my guitar?).
>
> Valete bene!
> Draco
>
> "Jeder f�r sich, und Gott gegen allen."
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[novaroma] Anyone need a website?
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 15:39:12 -0400

Salve civis et amicus,

I have noticed that many gens and provinces do not have websites. I am a pro
web designer and would be more then happy to donate my skills to better our
nation. If you run a gen, province or anything that has to do with Nova Roma
that is in need of its own site please feel free to contact me.

Hinc est mei oratio!

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Civis Canada Orientalis
Canada Orientalis Website Scribae
www.freehost.nu/members/canorien

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Ex domo Propraetoris Galliae
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 21:13:47 +0200

Salvete Quaestor Audens Lutecioque,

I would like to second this suggestion. Even though I initiated the
formation of Gallia, I was unable to become its propraetor, and thus Lutecio
became the governor; a job he did pretty well. Whilst Gallia was not blessed
with an active citizenry or citizens who had a lot of time, we were able to
accomplish some things, plus, even though I was his Legatus, I was never
treated in an authoritarian manner because I stood one rung lower. So, I
would also like to ask the Senate to re-appoint Ianus Querius Armoricus
Lutecio as the governor of Gallia.

Valete bene,
Draco

"Jeder f�r sich, und Gott gegen allen."

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Subject:	[novaroma] Your Disappointment
From:	jmath669642reng@--------
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 16:26:20 -0400 (EDT)

Masters Drusus and Laenus;

I am very sorry that you are disappointed in my post. I have recieved
privately the number of posts approving my comments two to one to those
disapproving and who are congratulating me on the original document. It
was not an easy on to write and it was a long time coming. Several
people have already indicated that this was not the first time I have
spoken to Censor Sulla about his activities, to thier kowledge, nor am I
the only one. I cannot be assured of Censor Sulla's genuine surprise,
since I have checked him on the Senate floor twice in the past few
weeks.

I am sure that Censor Sulla is your friend, but this is not about
friendship and never has been. Perhaps you will understand that and
perhaps not, but it really does not effect the equation.

I thank you for your posts and your concerns, I have always carefully
considered the concerns of those who have contacted me, and there is
much in your posts to consider. You have my assurance that I will
consider that content carefully.

In my post to Formosanus, I mentoned that he was assuming the post of
conscience for NR but that I supposed that might be necessary. I do not
assume such a stature here, but rather make suggestions to an individual
to modify an attitude and activities disgreed with by many here in Nova
Roma, and I did so publicly because my other private attempts over the
last weeks and months have had apparently little or no effect.

I am a Senator, and I know that means different things to different
people and it will mean something different to the same man or woman if
they are not wearing the Senatorial Stripe and later when they are.
What matters is what it means to me, and I felt that what I said had to
be said publicly. I have done so and my conscience is now clear as
opposed to before.

I do not expect your understanding, as you have not yet come to this
point. When you do there will be no one to assist you and you too will
decide. There will be controversy and bitterness and what you decide
will be yours to deal with, as this situation is mine. I wish you less
pain than this decision has cost me.

Respectfully;
Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Thanks
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 22:23:22 +0200

Ave Praetor Diocletiane,

> my "welcome back", too. I�m glad that you reviewed your decision.
>
> By the way: "Jeder f�r sich und Gott f�r uns alle" ;-)
>
> Caius Flavius Diocletianus

Hehe... Well, I'm glad you recognized it. I knew that is the original
statement, but I got that twist from my ex-frater Quintus, who got it from
another source (forgot whom). Do you know who the author of the quote was?

Vale bene!
Draco

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Thanks
From:	"Pompeia Cornelia" <scriba_forum@-------->
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 20:29:20 -0000

Salve Draco:

Oh, don't be shy.........sing us a sweet cybertune!!!

Surely you don't "need" your guitar to do that, do you?

Po

>From: "S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: "Nova Roma" <novaroma@-------->
>Subject: [novaroma] Thanks
>Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 14:19:44 +0200
>
>Salvete Quirites,
>
>A Big Thanks to all those who welcomed me back. Like the rockstars say
>"love y'all people!" (but where is my guitar?).
>
>Valete bene!
>Draco
>
>"Jeder f�r sich, und Gott gegen allen."
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

_________________________________________________________________________
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Subject:	[novaroma] Fairmindedness
From:	jmath669642reng@--------
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 16:31:37 -0400 (EDT)

Senator Diocletianus;

I thank you for your fairmindedness, and your willingness to initially
take a neutral view. I ask no more than a fair hearing since my purpose
was such as to tell what I had to say.

My thanks for your kind words.

Respectfully;
Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

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Subject:	[novaroma] Once a Roman and more than one more Roman
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@-------->
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 22:59:27 +0200

This is the second sending

>Salvete Quirites,
>
>Even though I had not expected to say these words; after so much kind
>comments and feelings of friendship expressed, how could I ignore the call
>of Roma? Once a Roman, always a Roman, I suppose. Gratias maximas ago,
>amicis meis!
>
>Valete bene!
>Sextus Apollonius Draco

Salve Honorable Sextus Apollonius Draco! (Excuse my bad Latin)

You are back! So our appeal to You to reconsider was a "success".
Wonderful, now Nova Roma seems more meaningful, then during these two
periods, when a lot of citizens left and nearly noone came back.. I have
really enjoyed these last days when at least three honorable men who have
made the mistake of leaving Nova Roma decided to come back. Congratulations
Nova Roma!

And yes, Honorable Sextus Apollonius Draco congratulations to your
birthday! :-)

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
Join the List for the Thule Provincia in Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThuleNovaRoma/join
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://www.acc.umu.se/~kerish/novaroma/main.html
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
Caeso, he who also is known as Christer Edling.
************************************************
Using a keyboard that don't want to make L! :-(
************************************************
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] The Announcements List
From:	"Domna Claudia Auspicata" <comptess@-------->
Date:	Thu, 31 May 2001 09:01:42 +1200

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Salve Flavi Vedi Germanice!

Just wondering...do we want such announcements as Invalid Voter Codes
placed on the Announcement List during elections as well? I am just
slightly concerned that cives on that list only will miss this
important information.

Vale bene
Domna Claudia Auspicata
Rogator
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Flavius Vedius Germanicus
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 12:45 AM
Subject: [novaroma] The Announcements List

Salvete

Two reminders about the Nova Roma Announce list. First, if anyone
finds
themselves overwhelmed by the volume of traffic here on the NovaRoma
list,
but still wants to be kept informed regarding official business
(calls to
vote, edicta, vote results, etc.), they are welcome to subscribe. It
is a
low-traffic list which is 100% moderated to prevent off-topic
messages. Just
go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NovaRomaAnnounce and subscribe.
(There's
no need to subscribe to both that list and this list, by the way.)

Second, the list is intended solely for official business by
magistrates and
other officials of the central government, and/or news of the
greatest
importance to the entire populace. Specifically, I'm getting a lot of
provincial edicta posted to the announcements list, and having to
delete
them. Too, oaths of office, announcements of a personal nature, etc.
are not
what the list was created for. Please keep such things here or on
other
appropriate lists.

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Anyone need a website?
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 14:47:22 -0700 (PDT)

Salve, Amuli Claudi Petre.

--- Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@--------> wrote:
>
> Salve civis et amicus,
>
> I have noticed that many gens and provinces do not have websites. I
> am a pro
> web designer and would be more then happy to donate my skills to
> better our
> nation. If you run a gen, province or anything that has to do with
> Nova Roma
> that is in need of its own site please feel free to contact me.

First of all, I want to thank you for your offer. It is a very brave
suggestion. You could find yourself into trouble! ;-).

I have been creating a web site for the Province of Hispania. Maybe you
could have a look at it and make a few suggestions. I have not much
experience in page building (this is my first try), so your help would
be very appreciated.

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Excessive Response
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@-------->
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 23:54:17 +0200

Salvete citizens of Nova Roma!

In a recent mail Illustrus Senator, Propraetor and Quaestor Marcus Minicius
Audens have openly critized Illustrus Senator and Censor Lucius Cornelius
Sulla Felix. This is his right and he has stated that he is fully aware
that this will render him some hard critizism. Now Illustrus Senator and
Censor Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix's friends rally to his banner, that is
honorable and understandable.

But as the friend of Illustrus Senator, Propraetor and Quaestor Marcus
Minicius Audens I feel that I am compelled to rally to his side. I have no
previous conflict with the friends of Illustrus Senator and Censor Lucius
Cornelius Sulla Felix and I seek none, in deed I admire some of them.

But I must defend Illustrus Senator, Propraetor and Quaestor Marcus
Minicius Audens' right to express what he feels is right. I am rather new
to Nova Roma and Illustrus Senator and Censor Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
has always been correct towards me. But I am afraid that= I suspect that
there is some truth in what Illustrus Senator, Propraetor and Quaestor
Marcus Minicius Audens says.

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
Join the List for the Thule Provincia in Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThuleNovaRoma/join
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://www.acc.umu.se/~kerish/novaroma/main.html
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
Caeso, he who also is known as Christer Edling.
************************************************
Using a keyboard that don't want to make L! :-(
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80

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Subject:	[novaroma] Audens' Post
From:	trog99@--------
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 22:26:01 -0000

Salvete Omnes:

I must confess that I too was surprised at the tone of Senator Marcus
Minucius Audens' unexpected public post to my paterfamilias.

As I don't know all the facts all around, I shall render no judgement
against Audens. Equally, I must refrain from judgement against my
Paterfamilias for the same reasons.

I must say, that in my opinion, those who have a history of posting
harsh, unfeeling criticisms and "digs" toward other citizens really do
not have much justification in criticizing Audens.

"People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones".

Pompeia

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Subject:	[novaroma] Any ideas?
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 18:31:12 -0400

Salve civis et amicus,

Any civis have any idea if a website where I could find historical
information on gens? I need it for my latest little project. =)

Hinc est mei oratio!

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Civis Canada Orientalis
Canada Orientalis Website Retarius
www.freehost.nu/members/canorien

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Excessive Response
From:	gcassiusnerva@--------
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 19:52:41 EDT

In a message dated 5/30/01 1:36:11 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 3s@--------
writes:

> If you
> have historical knowledge, you may think about what happened 60 years
> ago in Germany and what happened over a far longer period of time in
> the Soviet Union with people who disagreed on the official political
> direction, as those who left us did.
>
>

Sir, if you mean to somehow equate the voluntary departure of several AD
associates and sympathizers with the involuntary relocation of millions on
trains to Auschwitz and the Gulag, then maybe you have some rethinking to do.

And I really, really do hope that was not what you meant.

Nerva

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Your Disappointment
From:	gcassiusnerva@--------
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2001 19:57:06 EDT

In a message dated 5/30/01 10:36:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
jmath669642reng@-------- writes:

> I think that an Impeachment Trial at this point would seriously hurt NR

Salve,

Did I miss something? Who said anything about impeachment? The fact you
even mentioned this word suggests you deem their to be some grounds for it,
even if such a trial is undesirable for NRs image.

Please exercise caution now with such words.

Sincerely,

Nerva

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