Forum Romanum


Subject:	[novaroma] All that bloodletting...
From:	iasonvs_serenvs@--------
Date:	Thu, 07 Jun 2001 22:40:06 -0000

Salvete and a heady wow..

Apparently all that recent bloodletting has tamed our sanguinary
tempers a bit. In the last hour I have found myself in agreement
with Sulla, Sicinius, Draco, Labienus, Nerva, Formosanus, Q Fabius,
and a whole host of others.

Sniff, sniff. Does the air smell a wee bit cleaner these days, or is
it just me?

Oh, and a peggable note to the urchin who crabbed 'bout our "non-
roman" tastes - if Rome had remained interested only in Rome, dear
stranger, you would likely never have been granted the opportunity to
question our particular battles and disagreements. Nothing like a
snip from the outside to remind one of the virtue's of one's
countrymen...so hats off to all my Nova Roman brothers and sisters,
even the ones I enjoy snipping so much myself.

And to all a good night...

Ias.

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Subject:	[novaroma] In the Spirit of the Days
From:	iasonvs_serenvs@--------
Date:	Fri, 08 Jun 2001 00:32:09 -0000

Salvete omnes.

I have given the following post some thought, and several secondary
considerations. In perusing the past several days of missives to
this list, it occurred to me that all the bloodletting might, with
our encouragement, work towards a constructive end.

Proposition: We are, for some time yet, an internet obligated
community. Therefore we lose the nuances of personal contact; body
language is literally lost on us. We canot all, for our various
reasons, attend every or many NR events. Our sole knowledge of one
another depends upon e-mediated posts, which barely reveal character,
not to mention both the subtle and obvious traits revealed in
alingual communication. That said, we begin from a deficiency in our
fundamental ability to judge, embrace and reasonbly oppose each
other. We, in part due to the anonymity of our chosen medium, grow
easily acclimated to a adversarial milieu.

Proposition: It might help if we knew a little more about one
another than our scripted opinions.

In the Spirit of the Days, I would like to (hopefully) contribute to
the developing trend of amity and commonality.

What is immediately available to me, what can I provide now?

Proposition: We could tell a little of ourselves, in lieu of everday
contact.

With this in mind I will offer what I believe are the relevant
biographical aspects of my own person.

Iasonvs Serenvs Carolvs Peregrinvs. I chose this name for a variety
of reasons. Iasonvs is the latinate of my given name, Jason.
Carolvs is in honor of the oldest male in my family, and whose name I
also bear, my uncle Charles. Serenvs comes from a story I read as a
child, about a Roman family; its meaning extends beyond nostalgia.
Serenvs, serene, and from serenity, a desire for wisdom, honesty,
integrity, but not mere rest. Serene waters are best appreciated
after the storm.

Mi familia. My wife is a golden celtic goddess, highborn, proud,
angular of face, fierce yet curiously feminine. When fate finally
gets around to opening my way to obscene wealth, I intend to build
her a temple, hire priestess to worship her, and forbid the vulgar to
profance her sacred house. As best as I can figure, her name
translated into latin would be Gladia Serena Lepida. Her name means
sword, and she is the most gracefully elegant woman I know. I adore
her, though I have no words for the true extent of my devotion. I
fear i am not worthy of her glance, though she seems to tolerate my
presence. My sons, bright shining purpose of my little life, are a
daily revelation to me. If I were to translate their names into
Latin, my eldest, who is nearly five, would be introduced as
Mercurivs Serenvs Morriganvs, though he prefers, literally, to be
called Avgvstvs Avrelivs, smarmy little bastard. My newborn, who
turned 3 mos. today, would be called Amicus Serenvs Salvius Americus.

I was not a man until I became a father.

Genealogy. Italian of descent, American by life sense and accident
of birth, I was raised by a fiercely Catholic mother, an athiest
father who knew the names of every tree, leaf, bush, branch, bird,
star, constellation and cloud, and a chattering family of guinea-wop-
dago-greaser aunts, cousins, nanas and sundry twice-removeds. The
names on my family tree are old, and in several instances ancient,
and hail from the Provence, Sicily (to my chagrin), Naples, Rome,
Firenze (Florence), and villages in the Campagna. I have at least
one hundred ten cousins on my mother's side alone. We all, every one
of us, showed up to family gatherings, which occured every fourth
day, or so it seemed. Since only one man, my uncle Tony, ever lived
beyond the age of fifty, my family is firmly a matriarchy. We
menstuff must be content with the edicta coming out of the kitchen,
or else there's nothing to eat, no bed to sleep in, and nary a word
but to remind us of the meanness of our pitiable existences. We are
a pliant bunch, relegated to the room with the television. Our
wives, upon marriage into the family, are immediately given the
sovereign franchise, the power of the rods and the axes. We, poor
enphallic'd simpletons, must be content with our lot, and the
chocolate cannollis.

Education. Lucky enough to attend private schools, stupid enough to
waste the opportunity. Smart enough to realize it. Late enough to
try another path.

Philosophy. I would best describe myself as a stochastic. Mirriam -
Webster Online defines stochastic as an adjective having to with
probability, randomness. The word stochastic is greek in origin,
having its root in stochos- aim, target, guess, and stochazestai, to
aim, to target, to guess at. In modern idiom, especially in France,
the UK, Deutchsland, and the USA, it has come to signify an approach
to knowledge which recognizes the apparent randomness of events, and
the apparent order that rises from chaos. The first Westerner to
offer this understanding was Heraclitus of Ephesus, and I would
account him, less Homer, as the most important founder of Western
Philosophy.

Why Nova Roma? It felt, it many ways, like coming home. In almost
every event or philosophy or person with who I share affinity, there
is a definite meditarranean thread. Rome is the very heart of the
Mediterranean. Rome is the Mater.

I hope this serves as some sort or introduction, albeit topical, to
the man you can only meet in my words.

It is with gratitude for you time that I write.

Sincerely,

Ias.

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Subject:	[novaroma] Age Related Minutae
From:	iasonvs_serenvs@--------
Date:	Thu, 07 Jun 2001 22:16:57 -0000

Salvete omnes.

Just a few questions I jotted down when readng the posts on admission
of minors to Nova roma.

What happens if a minor receives permission from one parent but not
another? Convictions have been set aside for reasons of parental
notification.

What happens if a child receives permission from a non-custodial
parent? Will we be able to document which parent makes legal
decisions. As a note: I am my oldest son's sole custodial parent.
My wife is his stepmother, and has the legal right to make emergency
medical decisions, but could not, for a long time, make any routine
medical decisions for my son. It took a court order, and much
animosity from my ex, to procure this right for my wife. My son's
biological mother, by court order, shares medical and educational
decisions with me. This, by the way, is where an organization like
NR could get in a lot of trouble, esp. in countries with high divorce
rates. Let me enumerate: I can bring my son to any entertainment I
please but must seek the permission of my ex, whom I never married
and who has no legal authority to see my son without my permission
(which I granted in visitations) yet she still retains the right to
veto or seriously mangle my ability to place him in a school, church,
doctor's office, etc, of my choice. This is a common situation, and
would be a serious problem for NR if, say, I signed my son up for
membership (citizenship) without her permission. Or if NR provided
educational classes in which my son matriculated. As much as we
might like to neglect these situations, there are, sadly, the
American norm, at the very least. I cannot speak for the problems
experienced by non-american provinces.

What if a minor child wishes to remain a citizen of NR, after one or
both parents leave? What if NR parents divorce, with one remaining a
citizen, but not the other?

What if a child is given permission by a parent, but then the parent
rescinds that permission, unbeknownst to us?

Can we legally address many of the issues addressed in this forum in
the presence of a legal child without, as Labienus, Sulla and
Sicinius Drusus have noted, opening ourselves up to legal
interdiction, as well as the exposure of private information to
federal authorities?

It seems to me that if would be best to leave the age at sui juris,
in all cases. This, unfortunately for myself, supports a position I
would otherwise oppose. I prefer to take a man at his word, and
fault him for breaking it, rather than to assume chicanery from the
start. Here, though, we might (even those of us who opposed him from
the get-go) have to back the Censor Sulla in requiring documentable,
legal proof of identity before admission to NR, though I must still
differ with the censor on sexual identity.

These considerations also support the need for revenue, as the
censors will have to spend considerable time verifying and
researching each legal authority's age of consent. Shameless plug
time: although I have opposed immediately punitive measures, and any
taxation which depends on punishment of "offenders" I must take a
step back and offer my own small contribution. Given the damage done
by lawsuits, and given the fact that we cannot defend ourselves, as a
nation, it would do well for NR to have a discretionary slush fund,
esp. if we decide to follow historic Roman precedent and allow 17
year olds any measure of citizenship. I would fully support, and
campaign for, any taxation which defends and supports the interests
of Nova Romans has whole, especially against litiginous parents who
misunderstand youthful interest in ancient models. That said, I
believe any consideration of taxes, and what to do with non-payers,
must include a repeal of the Head Count Law in favor of something
which grants the poorer citizens some time to pay their arrearage.
Heck and hell, even the greediest municipalities given their dog-
weary citizens several "black marks" before they toss'em into the
brig.

sincerely,

Ias.

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] In the Spirit of the Days
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Thu, 7 Jun 2001 18:23:49 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete omnes.

I very much agree with the hypothesis posted by Iasonus Serenus Carolus
Peregrinus. As such, I will follow his example and make a small
introduction about myself.

Gnaeus Salix Astur. I chose my praenomen (Gnaeus) because I thought it
had a nice sound to it. I liked it since the first time I read about
Pompeius. I chose my nomen (Salix) because it is an Hispanic gens, and
because it means "willow" in Latin; a detail that I liked pretty much,
because my family owns a willow tree forest in Northwestern Spain. I
chose my cognomen (Astur) to honour my ancestors (the ones of the
willows), who being from Northwestern Spain lived in the territory once
held by the Celtic tribe of the Astures at Roman times (and probably
descended from this tribe).

Mea Familia. I am single (still too young) and I live with my parents
in Madrid. I have a sister and a girlfriend which I adore. Whenever
(if) she chooses to follow the Roman path, I will let herself choose an
appropriate name (although the gens Salicia is out of question; her own
brother -a good friend of mine- belongs to that same gens).

Genealogy. As I said before, my ancestors come from Northern Spain,
mainly from the land of the Astures and the Vaccei, although there are
a few traces of Vascones (Basque). As such, I am a proud Castilian and
Spaniard by birth and heritage. My parents have extensive relatives
that span the whole world, from Brazil, Argentina and the US to Japan,
including most of Western Europe. The number of my second degree
cousins would have to be calculated in a floating point mode.

Education. I attended an Italian school, so I am bilingual in Italian
and Spanish. I also attended evening English classes at the British
Council school to acquire this snobbish Oxfordshire accent. Right now,
I am still a student, and I study Telecommunications Engineering at the
Politechnical University of Madrid.

Philosophy. I try to melt both logic and spirit. My
technical-scientific background supplies the logic; my pagan believes
and love for art in all its forms supply the spirit.

Why Nova Roma? Since I first found the main page, I was charmed by the
idea of a reborn Roman Republic. I had liked Roman history and Roman
culture since I was a kid, so I decided to apply for citizenship almost
immediately.

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: In the Spirit of the Days
From:	"Julilla Sempronia Magna" <julilla@-------->
Date:	Fri, 08 Jun 2001 01:59:08 -0000

This is lovely!

Julilla Sempronia Magna

I have born the praenomen "Julilla" since Saturnalia of 1995, when I
first ventured onto the Internet. Our familia loves reading and
history, and I had just finished Colleen McCullough's "First Man in
Rome," so naturally I searched for items pertaining to ancient Rome.
I discovered they mystery tale/game "SPQR" on the Internet and was in
turn, enchanted, entertained and ultimately stymied by the clever
problems. The accompanying bbs required registration, and "Julilla"
was the first name that came to mind. I've been Julilla ever since.

Time passed, we importuned our cyberdeities to write and render more
Chapters. Eventually, in 1997, AncientSites was founded, with many of
my fellow game players as members. It was in Aprilis of 1997 that I
obtained my nomen, "Sempronius" (we dominae weren't able to choose
the genitive) and became, eventually, a member of the remote staff of
AncientSites. Ah, those were happy times.

Well, Rome at AS fell virtually this Spring, and like an unhappy
Cassandra, I could see it coming for some time. Fortunately, I have a
healthy outlet: three motorcycles of various age and vintage, all the
way from a 1980 Kawasaki 500 LTD to a 1999 1500 Drifter. Now,
motorcycling doesn't sound terribly historical, but there's a tie in,
so stay with me for a moment.

I'd been aware of NovaRoma for some time, but never had the time to
anything but observe while I was working at AncientSites. But shortly
after the new year, I took the plunge and registered, repeatedly
importuning my paterfamilias to accept me, as I had been a Sempronia
so darned long. I chose the cognomen "Magna" in honour of my fastest
bike, a 1994 Honda Magna.

Thank the gods I was acccepted; at my age, it'd have been hard to
answer to another name.

And here I am. I maintain a Web page on Roman daily life
(www.julilla.tripod.com/)

Mi familia

My husband and son are, like myself, history lovers, however, they're
not as hip-deep in Classical history as I am. We all read and travel
as much as possible; in fact, our 15 year old son is off to Gaul with
my parents next week, and he was in Northern England last year. Bless
him, he brought me pictures of the Roman baths in the Lakes District.

Genealogy

My ancestors have been in Northern America since the mid 18th
century, emigrating from England and Wales, with a few from France.
One of my ancestors purported to trace our family tree back to Rome,
but I've never seen the documents, so it's wishful thinking. It's
just as pleasant to speculate that my Britannia ancestors might have
iincluded a few Romans. Who knows?

Why Nova Roma?

It's amazing how the study of history not only illuminates what's
gone before us, but opens even more vistas into the future. Also,
I've been a Virtual Roman so long, hope still springs on my breast
that fun and fellowship are still possible in this venue.

To Iasonvs Serenvs Carolvs Peregrinvs, multas gratias for starting
such a delightful thread. To my fellow Romans, I thank you for your
attention.

---
cura et valeas,

@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| http://julilla.tripod.com/
Daily Life in Ancient Rome
@____@ julilla@--------
||||

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Subject:	[novaroma] Finding a gens
From:	"Nick Puglia" <nickpuglia@-------->
Date:	Wed, 06 Jun 2001 22:33:59 -0000

Hello,
I applied for membership to a gens that is listed, on the website,
as accepting new members 2 or 3 weeks ago. I have never received a
reply. Is this common? Should I reapply to a different gens?

Thanks,
Nico

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Finding a gens
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Thu, 07 Jun 2001 20:24:42 -0700

on 6/6/01 3:33 PM, Nick Puglia at nickpuglia@-------- wrote:

Hello,
I applied for membership to a gens that is listed, on the website,
as accepting new members 2 or 3 weeks ago. I have never received a
reply. Is this common? Should I reapply to a different gens?

Thanks,
Nico

Ave,

You will want to contact the Censors @ censors@-------- It takes on
average about 3 weeks to approve an application. If you contact us, we can
give you feedback as per your status.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: In the Spirit of the Days
From:	antoniuscorvusseptimius@--------
Date:	Fri, 08 Jun 2001 03:29:29 -0000

Salvete,

I humbly present a short description of myself:

I am a 31 year old graphic designer from North Hollywood , California..
U.S.A., And am currently residing in Tucson, Arizona.. U.S.A.
And yes, it is very hot out here at the moment:)
My interests in Roma antica stem from an adoration of everything
mediterranean. And have a deep respect for all of the cultures in her
past and present. From the beginnings of the Minoan culture all the way
to present day hapennings along her shores.
Studying as many cultures as I can is my goal.So, that I can (at
least) try to understand the world around me as well as the inner
workings of the human animal.
While (in my most humble opinion) it is a great idea to introduce
ourselves in this manner, I propose that we use the IM list as well.
So that we can ask eachother questions in real time. From there, we
should get a better picture of the people with whom we share these
common interests. Well, the taverna awaits! Valete! ----
Antonius Corvus Septimius

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] In the Spirit of the Days
From:	Fortunatus <labienus@-------->
Date:	Thu, 07 Jun 2001 22:54:16 -0500

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Salvete Quirites

One of the various pieces of sage adviced my father gave me was that
everyone's favorite subject of conversation is himself. In light of
that, I'll natter on about me, following the outline provided by
Iasonus Serenus.

Why Titus Labienus Fortunatus? The ancient T Labienus is an
ambiguous figure, primarily because nearly everything known about him
comes from C Iulius Caesar's pen. While Labienus was Caesar's
legate, the great general made him out to be a highly competent
general. Once Labienus joined Pompeius' side in the civil war,
Caesar portrayed him as an evil traitor to his race. I was drawn to
that ambiguity, as I enjoy mysteries. I was also attracted to the
fact that his descendents remained loyal to the Pompeian and
Republican cause even after it had to be obvious that Caesar and his
successors had carried the day.

I chose the cognomen Fortunatus because I am something of an albae
galinae filius. I've lived a charmed life, filled with serendipitous
coincidences and aid from the blue. When I was eleven, I survived a
25-foot fall without so much as a scratch. Additionally, my family
has been untroubled by money troubles, divorce, premature deaths, et
cetera. With a record like that, how could I not acknowledge my debt
to Fortuna?

Familia: I married well. My wife, Appia Claudia Labieni Ursa, and I
complement each other, filling in for each others' shortcomings and
bolstering each others' strengths. Our marriage is an equal
partnership, and we are the proverbial sum that is greater than its
parts. Nearly two years ago, on the morning of the Nones Caprotinae,
my daughter was born. She's a source of some annoyance and immense
joy to me, and I'm quite grateful for the opportunity to watch a
human grow and to help her mature.

Genealogy: I haven't got an Italian bone in my body. I can trace my
maternal ancestors back to a Norman knight who crossed the English
Channel with William the Bastard in 1066. My father's side of the
family is Welsh. There's an apocryphal tale that I'm directly
related to Benedict Arnold, which I choose to believe for no good
reason.

Education: I attended mostly private schools when living abroad,
which was most of my early life. I went to one of the best public
high schools in the US, and attended a fairly good university.
Currently, I'm putting my degree in English literature and
linguistics to good use as a computer programmer. My family has
always placed a high value on learning. And so, after school, I felt
compelled to continue my education and set out to give myself a
Classical education, which is an ongoing project.

Philosophy: I already addressed this in a previous post. I'm a
practicing Stoic seeking virtue while simultaneously pursuing a
Spartan aesthetic which is rather difficult to describe. It's a
subtle thing found most prominently in various martial arts and the
Eastern concept of emptiness. I suppose it could be summed up as
living focused upon the purity of the moment, seeing the world just
as it is without prejudice.

Why Nova Roma? The various Roman virtues are part and parcel of
Stoic thought. The promotion of those virtues is, therefore, a
worthy goal as far as I'm concerned. Indeed, the attempt to promote
virtue--to act in accord with the diviniy within each of us--in one's
self and others is the single most worthwhile human pursuit.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus
- --
"Ipsa scientia potestas est."
-Francis Bacon

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Please help me translate this to Latin
From:	"Lucilla Cornelia Cinna" <CorneliaLucilla@-------->
Date:	Fri, 8 Jun 2001 08:07:01 +0200

Salve Scipio Flacce

On 7 Jun 2001, at 14:17, tflacco@-------- wrote:
> I accept but do not condone.
Accipio, [sed] non ignosco.
vel
Accipio, [sed] non condono.
(The adversative "sed" is not necessarily used. Latin speakers tend
to be pretty short.)

More choices would be:
Accipio nec ignoscens/condonans. - I accept, although I don't
condone.
vel
Et(iam) Accipiens non ignosco/condono. - Although I accept, I
don't condone.

In fact, it depends on where you put the stress.

> To Accept but not Condone.
Simply replacing the phrase (accipio, ignosco/condono) by its
passive infinitive forms:
accipi, [sed] non ignosci - accepted, but not forgiven (present tense)
vel
acceptus (-a/-um), sed non ignotum (-a/-um) - accepted, but not
forgiven (past tense)

The second phrase suits better the general use of language in Latin.
E.g.
verba tua accepta, [sed] non ignota. - Your words are heard, but
not forgiven.
vel
Dux hostium verbis acceptis non ignotis necatus est a suis. - The
enemy leader was killed by his, because/although (depends on the
context) his words were heard, but not forgiven.

Bene vale,
_
Lucilla Cornelia Cinna \\
Quaestrix C. Flavio Diocletiano Praetori /\~/\ / )
Propraetori provinciae Germaniae ( )~~~----...,, __/ /
Retaria Sodalitatis Egressus \` �/ /
Musaea collegiorum Calliopes Cliusque \v/ _____( |
Sodalitatis Musarum / \| |~~~~� \ \ \
Civis NovaRomana ( ( | | ) /\ )
Auctrix Bibliotheca Germaniae \_\| | _/ / _| |
http://www.geocities.com/CorneliaLucilla /__/ /__/ /__/

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Please help me translate this to Latin
From:	"Lucilla Cornelia Cinna" <CorneliaLucilla@-------->
Date:	Fri, 8 Jun 2001 08:09:58 +0200

Salve Scipio Flacce,

finally I get what you really mean (I'm not a native English-speaker,
sorry)

On 7 Jun 2001, at 17:12, tflacco@-------- wrote:
> In a message dated 06/07/2001 3:02:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> salixastur@-------- writes:
>
> << Accipio sed non approbo >>
> Would that mean accept but not approve? That would be even better!
Yes, it does.

If you want to use the variant phrases I listed, just replace the
forms of ignoscere/condonare by approbare. :o)

Bene valete,

_
Lucilla Cornelia Cinna \\
Quaestrix C. Flavio Diocletiano Praetori /\~/\ / )
Propraetori provinciae Germaniae ( )~~~----...,, __/ /
Retaria Sodalitatis Egressus \` �/ /
Musaea collegiorum Calliopes Cliusque \v/ _____( |
Sodalitatis Musarum / \| |~~~~� \ \ \
Civis NovaRomana ( ( | | ) /\ )
Auctrix Bibliotheca Germaniae \_\| | _/ / _| |
http://www.geocities.com/CorneliaLucilla /__/ /__/ /__/

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: ATTN: Census of Provincia Lusitania
From:	amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 08 Jun 2001 09:30:17 -0000

Salvete digmissime Tribune Plebis T Labiene et al

Tribunus Plebis T Labienus scripsit:
> Propraetor Graecus has said that he would "start a process" to
revoke the
> citizenship of the non-responsive cives of Lusitania. While I do
not expect
> that he will attempt anything unconstitutional,
Of course. I my statement says that I will "start the process", which
one should understand as a constitutional process.

I will snip the rest of your posting, which I found most interesting.
Nevertheless I would also like to present my idea about the matter.
Provincial Administration is the responsibility of the Senate. Indeed
it is the Senate that appoints the provincial governors. As such, in
case such a process is started, I intend to involve the Senate and
respect its decision. In truth and good will, I think that our
constitution has a flaw regarding citizenship responsibilities. The
precedent you presented is in fact an example of that flaw, and I
believe that it is based on a policy of numbers that regards as
prioritary to present an high number of citizens in our webpage. Not
discarding the importance of numbers, I believe that some policy
regarding the quality of citizenship should also be followed. It is
here that the provincial administration can provide a valuable
contribute because each governor is able to know the citizens of his
province better than the central administration.
Anyway, I want to reafirm that I do not intend to violate the
Constitution in any way. In case inactive citizens cannot be removed,
I will accept that and just live with it. Yet my intention is to
pursue all means allowed by the Constitution in order to permanently
remove faulty or inactive citizens.

Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Propraetor Lusitaniae

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: In the Spirit of the Days
From:	"Lucilla Cornelia Cinna" <CorneliaLucilla@-------->
Date:	Fri, 8 Jun 2001 12:43:29 +0200

Salve Iulilla Sempronia Magna!

I am really glad to see another citizen of Rome at AS having moved
to NR - particularly such a prominent one as you were! Thnks to
the Gods you seem safe and sound.
I wholeheartedly welcome you. Di deaeque te tuosque bene
protegant. And I hope to read from you again very soon.

Bene vale
_
Lucilla Cornelia Cinna \\
Quaestrix C. Flavio Diocletiano Praetori /\~/\ / )
Propraetori provinciae Germaniae ( )~~~----...,, __/ /
Retaria Sodalitatis Egressus \` �/ /
Musaea collegiorum Calliopes Cliusque \v/ _____( |
Sodalitatis Musarum / \| |~~~~� \ \ \
Civis NovaRomana ( ( | | ) /\ )
Auctrix Bibliotheca Germaniae \_\| | _/ / _| |
http://www.geocities.com/CorneliaLucilla /__/ /__/ /__/

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Finding a gens
From:	"Nick Puglia" <nickpuglia@-------->
Date:	Fri, 08 Jun 2001 03:56:53 -0000

>
>
> Ave,
>

> You will wa--------o co--------t the Ce--------s @ ce--------s@-------- It takes o--------o--------br> > average about 3 weeks to approve an application. If you contact
us, we can
> give you feedback as per your status.

-----I never applied to Nova Roma because I was under the impression
that one needed approval from a Gens to apply.

Nico

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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Re: Coins...and lightbulbs
From:	Iasonvs Serenvs Carolvs <iasonvs_serenvs@-------->
Date:	Thu, 7 Jun 2001 22:01:20 -0700 (PDT)

Salve Michaele (mainly) E...

Very pleased to know someone else had read Meier's
brilliant biopsis of the Iulian enigma. What do you
think of his premise that Caesar's curious status as
an outsider, albeit one very intimate with the centers
of roman power, was what enabled him to succeed,
beyond any personal abilities he (obviously)
possessed? I have tried to apply his vision to other
great conquerers and have come to this conclusion, to
which Meier alludes but does not elaborate upon.
Simply, for an outsider to competently seize the reins
of power he must emerge from the ruling class, inherit
a vaccuum of power of necessity caused by internicine
violence, and be able to manipulate the major players
without involving himself in the direct destruction of
authority. If these conditions are met, in the least,
he will likely succeed. As more recent evidence of
this untested assertion, I offer the case of Napoleon.
He too was an outsider, a Corsican outlander. He too
came from an old family, one without fortunes to speak
of. He ascended the hierarchy from a place of nonimal
obscurity, a lousy student, and a young man expected
to accomplish little more than nothing with his life
or his apparent talents. As with the ravages
afflicted by the Boni upon one another in Caesar's
time, Napolean's own era was one of near total
depradation of the ranks of power by the French
so-called revolution.

?

Iasonvs
--- "Vaughan, Michael ST"
<Michael.Vaughan@--------> wrote:
> A. Corvus Septimius wrote:
> >michael (m) E sigged thusly:
> >>"In the future everything will be decided by me."
> -- Gaius Julius
> >>Caesar
> >Did Iulius Kaisar say this? Or is it from a play?
>
> It's a quote ascribed to GJC in the closing chapters
> of Christian Meier's
> book _Caesar_, I recall in response to Senate
> vacillation and hand-wringing
> I think after the close of the civil war. He didn't
> give a source, which is
> a great shame - the whole book needed more
> footnotes. :)
>
> -michael (mainly) E
> --
> "In the future everything will be decided by me." --
> Gaius Julius Caesar
> Senatus Populusque Romanus 2754 AUC
>
>
>
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=====
Iasonvs Serenvs Carolvs Peregrinvs
(this is a post for which I accept all responsibility)
"The cosmos works by harmony of tensions, like the lyre and the bow."
"Time is a game played beautifully by children."
Heraclitus of Ephesus
HeraclitusFreehold@--------

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Subject:	[novaroma] Funny Stuff
From:	Sextus Cornelius Cotta <sextus@-------->
Date:	Fri, 08 Jun 2001 00:28:09 -0500

Salvete,

These are from Henry Beard's " Latin For Even More Occasions"

KISS Keep It Simple, Stupid
SSS Sit Simplex, Stulte

CYA Cover Your Ass
PTP Protege Tuam Pugam

NIMBY Not In My BackYard
NPIMV Ne Ponatur In Mea Vicinitate

MEGO My Eyes Glaze Over
OMFL Oculi Mei Fiunt Languidi

Dork Caudex
Numbnuts Testibus torpidis
Doofus Blennus

Batteries not included Lagunculae Leydianae non accedunt

I got a big laugh while reading it. It's in the Humor section at
Barnes & Noble.

Vale, Sextus Cornelius Cotta

Sent from the iMac of Sextus Cornelius Cotta
ICQ# 29580250
AIM: SextusCornelius

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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] NR T-Shirts
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Fri, 8 Jun 2001 08:25:10 -0400

Salve

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sextus Cornelius Cotta [mailto:sextus@--------]
> Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 1:43 PM
>
> Salvete,
> Are NR T-Shirt's still available for sale? If so can they be ordered
> by PayPal like the new coins(I just
> ordered 40)? I plan to get one and some bumperstickers also.

Unfortunately, the t-shirts are all long gone. Someday someone might come up
with a new design and offer those for sale, but the originals were a limited
edition and all have now been snapped up. Sorry!

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org

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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] NR T-Shirts
From:	"Pompeia Cornelia" <scriba_forum@-------->
Date:	Fri, 08 Jun 2001 12:37:36 -0000

>From: "Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: <novaroma@-------->
>Subject: RE: [novaroma] NR T-Shirts
>Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 08:25:10 -0400
>
>Salve

Salvete Honoured Consul et Omnes:

New T-Shirts........now with our vastly increased population, this is
something we should perhaps work on in the near future, no?

I am not sure how to initiate such an undertaking , but I would be willing
to assist in any way I can.

Is there a graphic designer out there who could work on a "new look" design,
which could be approved by the Senate and Consuls (if need be)?

Valete!
Pompeia Cornelia
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sextus Cornelius Cotta [mailto:sextus@--------]
> > Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 1:43 PM
> >
> > Salvete,
> > Are NR T-Shirt's still available for sale? If so can they be
>ordered
> > by PayPal like the new coins(I just
> > ordered 40)? I plan to get one and some bumperstickers also.
>
>Unfortunately, the t-shirts are all long gone. Someday someone might come
>up
>with a new design and offer those for sale, but the originals were a
>limited
>edition and all have now been snapped up. Sorry!
>
>Vale,
>
>Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
>Consul
>
>email: germanicus@--------
>AIM: Flavius Vedius
>www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
>

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Funny Stuff
From:	trog99@--------
Date:	Fri, 08 Jun 2001 12:48:41 -0000

---

Salvete Frater et Omnes:

In novaroma@--------, Sextus Cornelius Cotta <sextus@s...> wrote:
> Salvete,
>
>I especially like this one, Frater. It is a common expression in
nursing, meaning basically, get a doctor's order and chart everything
you do :). Nice to have the Latin translation. I'll be sure and
share it with the girls/guys on my unit.

Bene valete,
Pompeia

>
> CYA Cover Your Ass
> PTP Protege Tuam Pugam
>
>
>
> Vale, Sextus Cornelius
Cotta
>
>
> Sent from the iMac of Sextus Cornelius Cotta
> ICQ# 29580250
> AIM: SextusCornelius

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Funny Stuff
From:	Kristoffer From <from@-------->
Date:	Fri, 08 Jun 2001 14:58:16 +0200

Sextus Cornelius Cotta wrote:
> These are from Henry Beard's " Latin For Even More Occasions"

Salve, Sexte Corneli Cotta

Good ol' Henricus Barbatus, his "Lingua Latina Occasionibus Omnibus" is
the source of many laughs on my behalf, including the quotation in my
signature...I feel an urgent need to purchase this sequel ASAP. Too bad
it's not sold in Sweden, to my knowledge...ah well, if I order from
Amazon or any such place, I'll make sure it's on the order...:)

Vale,

Titus Octavius Pius,
Consiliarius Thules,
Praeco Anarei Thules,
Scriba to the Curator Araneum

AKA Kristoffer From

---

Si hoc signum legere potes,
operis boni in rebus latinis alacribus
et fructuosis potiri potes.

- Not-so-famous quotation

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCS d- s:++> a-- C++>$ ULS++ P+ L++ E- W++(--) N
o-- K- w--- !O M-- V-- PS->$ PE- Y+ PGP- t+@ 5- X-
R+++>$ !tv- b+++>$ DI++++ D+ G e h! !r-->r+++ !x-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Finding a gens
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Jerry=20Anguston?= <gaiussentius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 8 Jun 2001 23:26:25 +1000 (EST)

Salve Nico,

You must go to the application form found on the main
page in order to apply for citizenship. During the
application process you will be able to choose your
gens, and an automatic mailing system will send a
request for approval from the gens head.

Hope that helps,

Vale bene,

Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura

Legatus Australia Medius
Sacerdos Mars Invictus

--- Nick Puglia <nickpuglia@--------> wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
 
> 
> 
> Ave, 
> 
> You will want to contact the Censors @
ce--------s@--------&--------; It takes o--------;BR>
> average about 3 weeks to approve an
application. If you contact 
us, we can 
> give you feedback as per your status. 
 
-----I never applied to Nova Roma because I was under
the impression 
that one needed approval from a Gens to apply. 
 
Nico 
 
</tt>

 



<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
<td align=center><font size="-1"


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: NR T-Shirts
From:	"Julilla Sempronia Magna" <julilla@-------->
Date:	Fri, 08 Jun 2001 13:33:05 -0000

Salvete, Sextus Cornelius Cotta and Pompeia Cornelia!

Waking up early must do wonders for creativity. When I saw the call
for graphic designs for new shirts, I dashed off the attached, which
I HOPE will download quickly and easily for most desktop systems.

I've been experimenting with new graphic designs and Web page looks
for NR (why is that so much more satisfying than doing Web work for
clients?!), so the colours came out of what I've been tossing around.
If the designs serve, let me know and I'd be happy to put together a
higher resolution image suitable for a silkscreen printer.

http://julilla.tripod.com/tshirt-red-400h.gif

http://julilla.tripod.com/tshirt-black-400h.gif

And to Lucilla Cornelia Cinna, my warmest thanks for your kind words!

---
cura et valeas,

@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| http://julilla.tripod.com/
Daily Life in Ancient Rome
@____@ julilla@--------
||||

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Subject:	[novaroma] Tee Shirts
From:	ksterne@--------
Date:	Fri, 08 Jun 2001 14:21:15 -0000

Salvete,

An excellent idea. I would certainly purchase a few. I could not
get Jullia's links to work so I don't know what design she has in
mind, but the first thing I thought of was the NR flag with "Nova
Roma" underneath.

Valete,
Gaius Popillius Laenas

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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Re: NR T-Shirts
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Fri, 8 Jun 2001 10:29:10 -0400

Salve

They do look great, Julilla! I'd buy one, definitely!

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Julilla Sempronia Magna [mailto:julilla@--------]
> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 9:33 AM
> To: novaroma@--------
> Subject: [novaroma] Re: NR T-Shirts
>
>
> Salvete, Sextus Cornelius Cotta and Pompeia Cornelia!
>
> Waking up early must do wonders for creativity. When I saw the call
> for graphic designs for new shirts, I dashed off the attached, which
> I HOPE will download quickly and easily for most desktop systems.
>
> I've been experimenting with new graphic designs and Web page looks
> for NR (why is that so much more satisfying than doing Web work for
> clients?!), so the colours came out of what I've been tossing around.
> If the designs serve, let me know and I'd be happy to put together a
> higher resolution image suitable for a silkscreen printer.
>
> http://julilla.tripod.com/tshirt-red-400h.gif
>
> http://julilla.tripod.com/tshirt-black-400h.gif
>
> And to Lucilla Cornelia Cinna, my warmest thanks for your kind words!
>
> ---
> cura et valeas,
>
> @____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
> |||| http://julilla.tripod.com/
> Daily Life in Ancient Rome
> @____@ julilla@--------
> ||||
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] NR T-Shirts
From:	MffnQueen@--------
Date:	Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:13:00 EDT

In a message dated 06/08/2001 7:49:50 AM Central Daylight Time,
scriba_forum@-------- writes:

<< New T-Shirts........now with our vastly increased population, this is
something we should perhaps work on in the near future, no?
......
Is there a graphic designer out there who could work on a "new look" design,
which could be approved by the Senate and Consuls (if need be)? >>

My mom owns a t-shirt printing company. I can get them printed fairly
cheaply and as soon as you want them.

Pax Vobiscum,
Julia Cassia Aurora

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: ATTN: Census of Provincia Lusitania
From:	"Decimus Iunius Silanus" <danedwardsuk@-------->
Date:	Fri, 8 Jun 2001 15:58:29 +0100

Salve Quirites,

As a petitor in the final stages (I hope!) of his citizenship application, I would, if I may be so presumptuous, like to take this opportunity to voice my opinion regarding the revoking of citizenships.

Surely the revoking of any citizenship based on periods of inactivity by individual citizens sets a dangerous precedent. Although I am well aware of the difficulties presented by inactive citizens, especially those that are in the role of paterfamilias, I would argue that surely our forebears in antiquita did not strip citizens of their rights based on peroids of inactivity in the forum. Further, I would argue that it must be reasonably common for citizens to drift in and out of periods of inactivity. It seems to me that the constitution as it currently stands deals with inactive citizens by placing them in the tribus urbanus if they fail to vote in consular elections (am I right in this?), and closing a gens to further applications if they happen to be pater. Consequantly, I personally can see no justification for stripping potentially temporary inactive citizens of their citizenship.

Vale,

Decimus Iunius Silanus.
----- Original Message -----
From: amg@--------
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 10:30 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: ATTN: Census of Provincia Lusitania

Salvete digmissime Tribune Plebis T Labiene et al

Tribunus Plebis T Labienus scripsit:
> Propraetor Graecus has said that he would "start a process" to
revoke the
> citizenship of the non-responsive cives of Lusitania. While I do
not expect
> that he will attempt anything unconstitutional,
Of course. I my statement says that I will "start the process", which
one should understand as a constitutional process.

I will snip the rest of your posting, which I found most interesting.
Nevertheless I would also like to present my idea about the matter.
Provincial Administration is the responsibility of the Senate. Indeed
it is the Senate that appoints the provincial governors. As such, in
case such a process is started, I intend to involve the Senate and
respect its decision. In truth and good will, I think that our
constitution has a flaw regarding citizenship responsibilities. The
precedent you presented is in fact an example of that flaw, and I
believe that it is based on a policy of numbers that regards as
prioritary to present an high number of citizens in our webpage. Not
discarding the importance of numbers, I believe that some policy
regarding the quality of citizenship should also be followed. It is
here that the provincial administration can provide a valuable
contribute because each governor is able to know the citizens of his
province better than the central administration.
Anyway, I want to reafirm that I do not intend to violate the
Constitution in any way. In case inactive citizens cannot be removed,
I will accept that and just live with it. Yet my intention is to
pursue all means allowed by the Constitution in order to permanently
remove faulty or inactive citizens.

Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Propraetor Lusitaniae


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Re: Coins...and lightbulbs
From:	Kanat Elibol <kelibol@-------->
Date:	Fri, 08 Jun 2001 18:57:55 +0300

Ave....

I've read Meier's book too...and between the lines I also saw
another characteristic
necessity to be immortalized by deeds...
Yes,one must have some distance between himself and the
existing order in order to see
clearly and to act freely.
But,one also must be natural born rebel to attain this
distance.Your observation is correct
in the cases of Napoleon and Caesar...they were both 'outsiders' and
they were both 'rebels'
who could see the hidden scars on the face of the status quo!
Being an outsider surely provided some advantages for
them..but without the rebellion in
their characters they couldn't be so glorious....Caesar could've
never crossed the Rubicon and
Napoleon could've never seen the 'The Sun of Austerlitz!'
Vale bene...

Publius Sentius Rutilianus Dexion
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Salve Michaele (mainly) E...
>
>Very pleased to know someone else had read Meier's
>brilliant biopsis of the Iulian enigma. What do you
>think of his premise that Caesar's curious status as
>an outsider, albeit one very intimate with the centers
>of roman power, was what enabled him to succeed,
>beyond any personal abilities he (obviously)
>possessed? I have tried to apply his vision to other
>great conquerers and have come to this conclusion, to
>which Meier alludes but does not elaborate upon.
>Simply, for an outsider to competently seize the reins
>of power he must emerge from the ruling class, inherit
>a vaccuum of power of necessity caused by internicine
>violence, and be able to manipulate the major players
>without involving himself in the direct destruction of
>authority. If these conditions are met, in the least,
>he will likely succeed. As more recent evidence of
>this untested assertion, I offer the case of Napoleon.
> He too was an outsider, a Corsican outlander. He too
>came from an old family, one without fortunes to speak
>of. He ascended the hierarchy from a place of nonimal
>obscurity, a lousy student, and a young man expected
>to accomplish little more than nothing with his life
>or his apparent talents. As with the ravages
>afflicted by the Boni upon one another in Caesar's
>time, Napolean's own era was one of near total
>depradation of the ranks of power by the French
>so-called revolution.
>
>?
>
>Iasonvs
>--
><
>

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Funny Stuff
From:	StarVVreck@--------
Date:	Fri, 8 Jun 2001 12:07:57 EDT

Salve Sextus

<>

You can also buy it from Amazon.com through Nova Roma's online store in the
Marcellum. That way Nova Roma can get a portion of the profit from the book
sale.

Vale,

Iulius Titinius Antonius

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Subject:	[novaroma] More on the t-shirts
From:	MffnQueen@--------
Date:	Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:33:37 EDT

Okay, flipping through mi Mater's catalogs, I found some cool stuff.. As far
as shirts go, they do screenprinting and embroidery on baseball jerseys,
basketball jerseys, nylon pullovers, jackets of all kinds, fleece pullovers
and vests, sweaters, varsity jackets, sweatshirts, tank tops, v-neck shirts,
ringer shirts (with the little colored cuffs), denim shirts, Oxfords, polos
in every design imaginable, and of course... t-shirts! They've got those in
every color and size you could ever want, including children's... We can
also do hats, aprons, backpacks, CD cases, duffle bags, briefcases, towels,
robes, and much more.. Who knew.. hrm...

Pax Vobiscum,
Julia Cassia Aurora

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: ATTN: Census of Provincia Lusitania
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 08 Jun 2001 16:17:47 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "Decimus Iunius Silanus" <danedwardsuk@-------->
wrote:
> Salve Quirites,
>
> As a petitor in the final stages (I hope!) of his citizenship
application, I would, if I may be so presumptuous, like to take this
opportunity to voice my opinion regarding the revoking of
citizenships.
>
> Surely the revoking of any citizenship based on periods of
inactivity by individual citizens sets a dangerous precedent.
Although I am well aware of the difficulties presented by inactive
citizens, especially those that are in the role of paterfamilias, I
would argue that surely our forebears in antiquita did not strip
citizens of their rights based on peroids of inactivity in the forum.
Further, I would argue that it must be reasonably common for citizens
to drift in and out of periods of inactivity. It seems to me that the
constitution as it currently stands deals with inactive citizens by
placing them in the tribus urbanus if they fail to vote in consular
elections (am I right in this?), and closing a gens to further
applications if they happen to be pater. Consequantly, I personally
can see no justification for stripping potentially temporary inactive
citizens of their citizenship.
>
> Vale,
>
> Decimus Iunius Silanus.

Salvete,
This is a bigger issuse than mearly being inactive for a time. This
is failure to reply to a Census, and in Antiquita failure to reply
was the crime of being incensus. Under the Kings the Penality was
death. During the Republican era this penality was reduced to being
sold into slavary. Both of these punishments would of course result
in losing one's citizenship along with thier life or freedom.

However I don't think that we should be removing citizens from the
Album based only on the results of a Provincial Census. Before we
remove any citizen from the rolls we need to pass a lex that sets up
fair and uniform procedures. I agree with the Propraetor that we need
to remove the "ghosts" that are haunting the Album. I would prefer
that before doing so we have a Lex that provides safegaurds for
citizens who may just be inactive for a time, and one that insures
that the Citizens of all Provinces are treated in the same manner.

It's Time to look into drafting a Census Lex.

Valete,
L. Sicinius Drusus

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: ATTN: Census of Provincia Lusitania
From:	amg@--------
Date:	Fri, 08 Jun 2001 17:28:42 -0000

Salvete L. Sicini Druse et al

L. Sicinius Drusus scripsit:
> Salvete,
> This is a bigger issuse than mearly being inactive for a time. This
> is failure to reply to a Census, and in Antiquita failure to reply
> was the crime of being incensus. Under the Kings the Penality was
> death. During the Republican era this penality was reduced to being
> sold into slavary. Both of these punishments would of course result
> in losing one's citizenship along with thier life or freedom.
Exactly. This is what I meant. I was not referring to "inactivity" in
the sense of no participation in the daily affairs of Nova Roma. I
was referring to total inactivity reflected on the failure to respond
to a Census.

> However I don't think that we should be removing citizens from the
> Album based only on the results of a Provincial Census. Before we
> remove any citizen from the rolls we need to pass a lex that sets
up
> fair and uniform procedures. I agree with the Propraetor that we
need
> to remove the "ghosts" that are haunting the Album. I would prefer
> that before doing so we have a Lex that provides safegaurds for
> citizens who may just be inactive for a time, and one that insures
> that the Citizens of all Provinces are treated in the same manner.
>
> It's Time to look into drafting a Census Lex.
I agree with you completely. When I said "start a process" I was
contemplating the possibility of a long process. Nevertheless, I want
to start pressure right now in order to see such a lex voted and
approved by the roman people as quickly as possible.

Dii te ament

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Propraetor Lusitaniae

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Finding a gens
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@-------->
Date:	Fri, 08 Jun 2001 10:29:22 -0700

Ave,

Please contact me off list and I will be more than happy to help you.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor

Nick Puglia wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Ave,
> >

> > You will wa--------o co--------t the Ce--------s @ ce--------s@-------- It takes o--------o--------br> > > average about 3 weeks to approve an application. If you contact
> us, we can
> > give you feedback as per your status.
>
> -----I never applied to Nova Roma because I was under the impression
> that one needed approval from a Gens to apply.
>
> Nico
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> [www.debticated.com]
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

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Subject:	[novaroma] Movie extras!
From:	"Sean Sheridan Richards" <legioix@-------->
Date:	Fri, 08 Jun 2001 17:49:05 -0000

If you want a full copy of the text of the email I was sent regarding a search for Roman movie extras please email me
privately... at.... legioix@--------

Movie website:
www.romansoldier.com

Yup. it's our old "friend". The text of the email is interesting. You decide for yourself

Hibernicus
Legio IX Hispana, USA

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Subject:	[novaroma] ATTN (Religio Romana): ante diem VI Idus Iunias (June 8th)
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <amg@-------->
Date:	Fri, 8 Jun 2001 19:15:31 +0100

Salvete omnes

This is one of the dies nefasti (N), a day on which no legal action can take
place.

Today is the 'dies natalis' (aniversary of the dedication) of the temple of
Mens
(Intelligence) on the Collis Capitolinus. This temple was vowed in 217
BCE by the Praetor T. Otacilius after the battle of Lake Trasimene, and
dedicated 2 year later in 215 BC. It was also attributed to M. Aemilius
Scaurus who seems to have restored the temple in 115.
At the battle of Lake Trasimene, the Roman army was ambushed and completely
defeated by the Carthaginians. The construction of the temple resulted from
the consultation of the Sibylline Books. Apparently, the temple was
constructed to appease Mens, for she abandoned C. Flaminius, leading to the
disaster at Trasimene.

I also remind that Iunius is the month of Iuno, month of the young
(iuuenes).

Dii vos ament
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: NR T-Shirts
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Fri, 08 Jun 2001 15:45:29 -0400

Fellow web designer Magna, salve,

Your shirt design is simple and beautiful. I would definitely submit those
to be approved. I am sure if we sell t-shirts they will soon become the
biggest money raiser for our Nation.

> why is that so much more satisfying than doing Web work for
> clients?!

Yes, freedom away from clients is very nice, I must say. =)

Keep up the excellent work, I am curious to see how this turns out!
Spes inviso tui repens labor laboris existo laureola.

Hinc est mei oratio!

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Canada Orientalis Provincia
www.freehost.nu/members/canorien
--

Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/

Julilla Sempronia Magna wrote:

> Salvete, Sextus Cornelius Cotta and Pompeia Cornelia!
>
> Waking up early must do wonders for creativity. When I saw the call
> for graphic designs for new shirts, I dashed off the attached, which
> I HOPE will download quickly and easily for most desktop systems.
>
> I've been experimenting with new graphic designs and Web page looks
> for NR (why is that so much more satisfying than doing Web work for
> clients?!), so the colours came out of what I've been tossing around.
> If the designs serve, let me know and I'd be happy to put together a
> higher resolution image suitable for a silkscreen printer.
>
> http://julilla.tripod.com/tshirt-red-400h.gif
>
> http://julilla.tripod.com/tshirt-black-400h.gif

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: NR T-Shirts
From:	"Julilla Sempronia Magna" <julilla@-------->
Date:	Fri, 08 Jun 2001 20:07:36 -0000

> Your shirt design is simple and beautiful. I would definitely
submit those to be approved. I am sure if we sell t-shirts they will
soon become the biggest money raiser for our Nation.
>
> > why is that so much more satisfying than doing Web work for
> > clients?!
>
> Yes, freedom away from clients is very nice, I must say. =)
>
> Keep up the excellent work, I am curious to see how this turns out!

@____@
||||

Gratias, Amulius Claudius Petrus, You are too kind!

Unfortunately, I've not much more time left to me before I take a
three week road trip, so cannot follow up on the senate approval
process. I'd estimate that, in order to make the sales a profit
centre for NR, it might be wise to take pre-orders for shirts, rather
than print thousands and have someone's domus overflowing with T-
shirt boxes. Inventory's both bulky and expensive to maintain!

A one-colour design shouldn't be expensive to print, and if there's a
silkscreen business, such as the estimatable Julia Cassia Aurora's
mater, who might be willing to give NR rock-bottom prices on the
shirts and the printing, I'd say that shirt sales could help the
coffers a great deal.

---
cura et valeas,

@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| http://julilla.tripod.com/
Daily Life in Ancient Rome
@____@ julilla@--------
||||

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Subject:	[novaroma] NR T-Shirt Business
From:	TSardonicus@--------
Date:	Fri, 08 Jun 2001 16:56:28 EDT

In a message dated Fri, 8 Jun 2001 4:08:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Julilla Sempronia Magna" <julilla@--------> writes:

"A one-colour design shouldn't be expensive to print, and if there's a
silkscreen business, such as the estimatable Julia Cassia Aurora's
mater, who might be willing to give NR rock-bottom prices on the
shirts and the printing, I'd say that shirt sales could help the
coffers a great deal."

Salve,

While I agree it would be nice for NR to receive a discount on the purchase of the shirts, I believe that expecting "rock-bottom" prices from a relative of a cive is taking undue advantage. Business is business.

I see the benefit of contracting Julia Cassia Aurora's
mater to do this work, but I don't believe we should expect any discount above and beyond that we would receive from another vendor.

I'm sure that is not what you meant, and I apologize before-hand if I seem to be misreading your post. However, I felt this was a point to be made.

Vale,
LCS

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: NR T-Shirt Business
From:	"Julilla Sempronia Magna" <julilla@-------->
Date:	Fri, 08 Jun 2001 21:36:45 -0000

>
> I see the benefit of contracting Julia Cassia Aurora's
> mater to do this work, but I don't believe we should expect any
discount above and beyond that we would receive from another vendor.
>
> I'm sure that is not what you meant, and I apologize before-hand if
I seem to be misreading your post. However, I felt this was a point
to be made.
>
> Vale,
> LCS

@____@
||||

Your point is well taken, and you're quite right, I didn't mean that
any relative's business should be expected to cut out all profit
margin; however, having done this for many non-profit organisations,
including my Rotary club, I always make a point to bid jobs from 2-03
vendors and ask for the best prices.

---
cura et valeas,

@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| http://julilla.tripod.com/
Daily Life in Ancient Rome
@____@ julilla@--------
||||

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Subject:	[novaroma] Revoking Citizenship (was ATTN: Census of Provincia Lusitania)
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Fri, 8 Jun 2001 15:11:16 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete omnes; et salve, L. Sicini Druse.

--- Lucius Sicinius Drusus <lsicinius@--------> wrote:

<<snipped>>

> Salvete,
> This is a bigger issuse than mearly being inactive for a time. This
> is failure to reply to a Census, and in Antiquita failure to reply
> was the crime of being incensus. Under the Kings the Penality was
> death. During the Republican era this penality was reduced to being
> sold into slavary. Both of these punishments would of course result
> in losing one's citizenship along with thier life or freedom.
>
> However I don't think that we should be removing citizens from the
> Album based only on the results of a Provincial Census. Before we
> remove any citizen from the rolls we need to pass a lex that sets up
> fair and uniform procedures. I agree with the Propraetor that we need
>
> to remove the "ghosts" that are haunting the Album. I would prefer
> that before doing so we have a Lex that provides safegaurds for
> citizens who may just be inactive for a time, and one that insures
> that the Citizens of all Provinces are treated in the same manner.
>
> It's Time to look into drafting a Census Lex.

I can see your point, Druse. You know that I am always in favour of
restoring Roman tradition. However, I must disagree with you on this
one.

Consider this: what are we giving to these unactive citizens? What are
they taking from us? Obviously, nothing. I can understand your
frustration at seeing names on the Album Civium you have never heard
from, because the same thing happens to me in Hispania Provincia. But I
think we should always think about including rather than excluding.

Don't get me wrong. I am completely in favour of a Census. But I see it
as one of the ways to check true identities. Of course, if a citizen's
identity could not verified on the Yellow Pages (or some other kind of
public list), and if they do not respond to three (according to Sulla's
idea) petitions to provide identification, they should be discarded as
"unreachable". But not because of their inactivity.

I can see a system in which the Censores would appoint a scriba in each
province to check the identity of old (at first) and new (after that)
citizens under the strict control of the Censores. This "census" could
be repeated each five years (according to Roman tradition), to see if
the information submitted in the application form is still correct (or
to see if those citizens are still alive ;-) ). The ones failing to be
identified would be discarded as "unreachable", but NOT because of
their lack of participation.

Besides, those citizens deemed "unreachable" should be allowed to
reapply for citizenship IMMEDIATELY, as they would have not resigned.

As a last word, parafrasing Cato, I am also of the opinion that
citizenship applications should be handled during Comitia, although not
allowing those new citizens to vote until those Comitia had ended.

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] NR T-Shirt Business
From:	MffnQueen@--------
Date:	Fri, 8 Jun 2001 18:09:34 EDT

<< While I agree it would be nice for NR to receive a discount on the
purchase of the shirts, I believe that expecting "rock-bottom" prices from a
relative of a cive is taking undue advantage. Business is business.
I see the benefit of contracting Julia Cassia Aurora's
mater to do this work, but I don't believe we should expect any discount
above and beyond that we would receive from another vendor. >>

Well here's how it works.. Because this business is new and local (not one of
those highfalootin' big companies that has a factory 20 miles away), their
rates are already low. However, the more shirts you order, the cheaper they
get. If only 10 people wanted shirts, that might be a little more pricey.
If 100 people were interested, that's a whole different story. What I really
need is a rough estimate of who all wants one (or at least how many we would
print).

Pax Vobiscum,
Julia Cassia Aurora

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Revoking Citizenship (was ATTN: Census of Provincia Lusitania)
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Fri, 08 Jun 2001 15:26:42 -0700

on 6/8/01 3:11 PM, Gnaeus Salix Astur at salixastur@-------- wrote:

Salvete omnes; et salve, L. Sicini Druse.

--- Lucius Sicinius Drusus <lsicinius@--------> wrote:

<<snipped>>

> Salvete,
> This is a bigger issuse than mearly being inactive for a time. This
> is failure to reply to a Census, and in Antiquita failure to reply
> was the crime of being incensus. Under the Kings the Penality was
> death. During the Republican era this penality was reduced to being
> sold into slavary. Both of these punishments would of course result
> in losing one's citizenship along with thier life or freedom.
>
> However I don't think that we should be removing citizens from the
> Album based only on the results of a Provincial Census. Before we
> remove any citizen from the rolls we need to pass a lex that sets up
> fair and uniform procedures. I agree with the Propraetor that we need
>
> to remove the "ghosts" that are haunting the Album. I would prefer
> that before doing so we have a Lex that provides safegaurds for
> citizens who may just be inactive for a time, and one that insures
> that the Citizens of all Provinces are treated in the same manner.
>
> It's Time to look into drafting a Census Lex.

I can see your point, Druse. You know that I am always in favour of
restoring Roman tradition. However, I must disagree with you on this
one.

Consider this: what are we giving to these unactive citizens? What are
they taking from us? Obviously, nothing. I can understand your
frustration at seeing names on the Album Civium you have never heard
from, because the same thing happens to me in Hispania Provincia. But I
think we should always think about including rather than excluding.

Ave,

I just have some brief comments. I believe citizens should have the
curtosey to at least send an email to the Censors notifying if they are
changing email addresses, or snail mail addresses. Its just my opinion.

Don't get me wrong. I am completely in favour of a Census. But I see it
as one of the ways to check true identities. Of course, if a citizen's
identity could not verified on the Yellow Pages (or some other kind of
public list), and if they do not respond to three (according to Sulla's
idea) petitions to provide identification, they should be discarded as
"unreachable". But not because of their inactivity.

Well, I am going to be preparing an indepth statement on this. Probably
this weekend. However, let me assure you the three attempts include:
Email, phone and snail mail contact. If they fail to respond we have
exhausted all remedies.

I can see a system in which the Censores would appoint a scriba in each
province to check the identity of old (at first) and new (after that)
citizens under the strict control of the Censores. This "census" could
be repeated each five years (according to Roman tradition), to see if
the information submitted in the application form is still correct (or
to see if those citizens are still alive ;-) ). The ones failing to be
identified would be discarded as "unreachable", but NOT because of
their lack of participation.

Well my plan will have some of the specifics spelled out so I will not
comment on this at this time. However, I do not see the value of trying to
differnetiate between those citizens who have gone "inactive" or just
"disappeared." To be a citizen of any country should carry some
responsibility, even in its barest form.

Besides, those citizens deemed "unreachable" should be allowed to
reapply for citizenship IMMEDIATELY, as they would have not resigned.

I disagree on this. They would be held up to the standards of the
resignation lex.

As a last word, parafrasing Cato, I am also of the opinion that
citizenship applications should be handled during Comitia, although not
allowing those new citizens to vote until those Comitia had ended.

This would be a violation of the Constitution of Nova Roma. I am against
this as well. If you are a citizen you have the right to vote. Regardless
if you are a brand new citizen or an old timer citizen. And, to allow
citizens to be approved during votes...lets in uninformed voters. People
who most likely have not heard the debates, seen the laws.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Revoking Citizenship (was ATTN: Census of Provincia Lusitania)
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Fri, 8 Jun 2001 15:53:13 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete omnes; et salve, Censor Sulla.

--- "L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@--------> wrote:

<<snipped>>

> Ave,
>
> I just have some brief comments. I believe citizens should have the
> curtosey to at least send an email to the Censors notifying if they
> are
> changing email addresses, or snail mail addresses. Its just my
> opinion.

That was exactly my point. But those citizens wouldn't be "passive"
citizens. They would just be "unreachable" citizens.

I am so heavy in this small point because I think that punishing
citizens because of their inactivity would be a dangerous precedent.
Erasing from the Album "unreachable" citizens is not a punishment; it's
simple logic.

> Well, I am going to be preparing an indepth statement on this.
> Probably
> this weekend. However, let me assure you the three attempts include:
> Email, phone and snail mail contact. If they fail to respond we have
> exhausted all remedies.

This sounds pretty well for me. However, and on a personal level (to
help you avoiding unnecessary expenses), I would like to humbly suggest
you to consider making those phone calls through the Internet. I think
they would be much cheaper than the other way.

Besides, phone calls and snail mail are two more reasons to use
censorial scribae in each province. Or are you willing to improve your
Spanish to the point of being able to make a call to a non-responding
citizen in Hispania? And what about those citizens that just speak
Czech? Snail Mail would also be much less expensive if mailed within
the same Provincia.

> Well my plan will have some of the specifics spelled out so I will
> not
> comment on this at this time. However, I do not see the value of
> trying to
> differnetiate between those citizens who have gone "inactive" or just
> "disappeared." To be a citizen of any country should carry some
> responsibility, even in its barest form.

To be a citizen of a macronation also provides more rights and
benefits. We should think about an aequilibrium between rights and
duties here.

> I disagree on this. They would be held up to the standards of the
> resignation lex.

Why? Isn't it written there that you have to make a specific statement
in front of several witnesses in order to resign? What'd be the point
of this if one could be considered a "resignee" just for not saying
anything?

> This would be a violation of the Constitution of Nova Roma. I am
> against
> this as well. If you are a citizen you have the right to vote.
> Regardless
> if you are a brand new citizen or an old timer citizen.

This is not correct. You can be a citizen and still not be allowed to
vote. Right now this just applies if you are a minor, but I see no
reason why this could not apply to new citizens for an extremely short
period of time.

Besides, our Constitution is not a rigid document. It can be ammended.

> And, to
> allow
> citizens to be approved during votes...lets in uninformed voters.
> People
> who most likely have not heard the debates, seen the laws.

I am not in favour of allowing these citizens to vote in this first
Comitia.

Anyway, all this could be spared if the Censores sent a mail to those
prospective citizens informing them that they can not be accepted at
that moment because of the ongoing Comitia, but that they will be
accepted immediately after the Comitia are over.

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Spirit of the Days
From:	octavianuslucius@--------
Date:	Fri, 08 Jun 2001 23:39:24 -0000

Salvete omnes.
After reading Iasonus 's post called "In the Spirit of the Days" and
its replies, I would like to add my post.

Name : Lucius Pompeius Octavianus. I chose this name because I wanted
that my roman name were as typically roman as possible. So I searched
among very famous historical characters. Many famous romans weared
the praenomen Lucius, so I chose it. Pompeius was one of the roman
nomina that I knew, so I chose it too, and finally I chose the
cognomen Octavianus, because I think it is an interesting historical
character that changed Roma antiqua forever.
When I was member of Ancientsites, my member name was Fabricius
Marius, but I didn't feel it "typically roman" even though I know I
am wrong.

Why Nova Roma : Once, another member of Ancientsites suggested me to
join NR because he knows I am learning latin and said NR would be the
best place for me. And he was right!!!!!. Thanks to him (Australicus
Marius : if you read this then I want to say to you : MAXIMAS GRATIAS
TIBI AGO), I now am a citizen of Nova Roma. Now Ancientsites already
disapeared, but NR still stands and we are all here, and NR will
still be here for the years to come. In a few words: I am very happy
to be novaroman!!!.
By the way, some of you know that I travelled to Rome twice. My
fascination for Ancient Rome begun when I was a teenager, when I got
a book about the buildings of this city. I had to wait 20 years to
see the Forum Romanum with my own eyes. You cannot imagine how I felt
then!!!. When the Forum Romanum was in front of me, my dream came
true!!!!. And because of this fascination for Rome, I decided that I
had to learn latin. Now I am a passionate lover of this language :-)
(even though I have to learn a lot yet). So as I stated earlier, NR
is the right place for me!!

Genealogy : My ancestors came from Italy and Spain. Some of the
Italians were from Bari (the parents and sisters of my father's
mother).Unfortunately I do not from what region of Italy came the
grandparents of my mother. My father's father came from the north of
Spain. He was from the city of Santander.

Myself : I was born in Buenos Aires, Argentina. Now I'm 40 years old,
single (for the moment, but not eternally LOL :-)), and besides Latin
(a bit) and Spanish, I speak English (obviously) and a bit of French
( I learned it a very long time ago). I love travelling (by plane, by
ship, by train, by bus ,etc.)and visiting foreign countries. I work
with computers running processes.

Philosophy: hmmmm.... I admit that I do not have any philosophy
preference, even though that many years ago I read two Ayn Rand's
books.

Well, I hope You'll have an approximate idea of myself. And thanks to
Iasonus for his excellent idea!!

Bene valete et habete fortunam bonam
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus

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Subject:	[novaroma] National Census - My opinion.
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Fri, 08 Jun 2001 16:50:25 -0700

Ave Citizens of Nova Roma,

With the discussion of a census the "hot topic" currnetly in Nova Roma, I
would like to make my opinion known on this matter. I have been discussing
this very issue with a couple of citizens, and now I think its time I tried
to formulate this so that everyone can get an idea of just where I am on
this issue. I speak for myself. My colleauge, if you will notice will also
be getting a copy of this very email. I hope he will add his opinion
sometime soon on this topic.

I will fashion this as a proposed Lex. For this is something I would like
to have promulgated, eventually.

I. A Census of all citizens of Nova Roma should be done yearly. This would
be the responsiblity of the Censors. However, as Nova Roma grows, it will
be likely that a yearly census might become an undue burden. The Censors
may petition the Senate for an exemption up to a year. This means that
instead of a yearly census, the Senate can upon passing a Senatus Consultum,
authorize the Censors to conduct a Census every two years. The Senatus
Consultum can be a one time exemption or it can establish the procedural
change permanently.

2. If the Censors request a larger gap of time between Census (beyond the 2
years) This must be passed via the Comitia Centuriata. [In my honest
opinion, I feel that these changes should go in the following timeframe: 1
year, 2 years, 5 years and then 10 years.]

3. To help facilitate the Censors in this work, Censors would now be
eligible to have 2 Quaestors. It will be the chief function of the
Quaestors to facilitate and assist the Censors in this work. The Censors
and Quaestors may work with the local provincial governors to facilitate
this project. [The reason I feel the Censors need Quaestors are two fold.
One they are elected by the People, Secondly, they would be magistrates who
would be able to work in areas where there are no provincial governors.]

4. The Census of all citizen of Nova Roma must be done by the Ides of
September, in the year that the Census is due. This will give the Censors
enough time to clean the roles and make adjustments before the alignment of
century points and century placements must be completed. [This must be done
during November, according to the Constitution].

5. The Census will consist of the following:

A. Active citizens are those citizens that do not need to be contacted by
the Censors to determine if they are apart of Nova Roma:

1. Those citizens who vote are considered ACTIVE.
2. Those citizens who pay taxes are considered ACTIVE.

6. Inactive citizens are those citizens who will need to be contacted by
the National Census. THe following will lay down some of the procedures to
make certain we get the best response in any National Census:

A. Bulk email. At least two attempts should be done to contact citizen via
this avenue.
B. Phone calls. I know this can be costly. Maybe this is where we can
incorporate some cooperation between the local governors and the Censors
(coordinated by the Quaestors). Or done via the Internet. Discretion lies
with the Censors and the Censorial Quaestors. The attempts may vary, in
this avenue, but at least two attempts would be required. [There has to be
some kind of documentation either via email or snail mail by the applicant
to confirm the information gained via the phone, this confirmation will need
to go to the Censors]
C. Snail mail. Again, this might be an avenue that there can be some
cooperation between the Office of Censor and local governments. However, it
must be impearative that any documentation received must be forwarded to the
Censors office by the Ides of September.

7. If citizens fail to respond to the contact attempts. That person will
no longer be considered a citizen of Nova Roma. His name will be stricken
from the Album Civium and if he/she is a Pater/Mater, the Censors will have
the discretion to appoint a successor to that gens (if available).

8. If an person who was once a citizen but was removed due to a National
Census, he will have to comply with the stipulations of the Resignation Lex.

____

Respectfully submitted,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor of Nova Roma

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