Forum Romanum


Subject:	[novaroma] (unknown)
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 01:02:27 -0000

This was posted on the NRbackalley list and I am forwarding with
permission.
It concerns the recent forged posts on this list.

There have been many instances of forgeries within Nova Roma. One of
these days a real mess will be made when someone posting as one of
our Senators, using their address, will post something to cause some
real trouble. A few citizens have taken to using PGP (Pretty Good
Privacy) to protect themselves. I call it a "Digital Signet Ring)
and use it as much as possible in my correspondance, not only within
NR, but in my everyday life as well. There is really no such thing
as internet or email privacy. Your address can be forged, no
problem, by people who know how and are willing to do it. Are there
not people ready willing and able to harm Nova Roma under the guise
of one or more of NR's most prominent and respected citizens? I
believe there are. I urge ALL citizens, all people, to begin
protecting themselves. My husband and I learned our lesson about
email tampering.. I would not wish our nightmare on anyone!!!!!!

If you are interested in protecting yourself on the internet in both
your "real life" and your Nova Roman life, please join the NRCaute
team.

Seia Silvania Atia (and I can PROVE IT!!)
http://www.topica.com/lists/NRCaute

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Subject:	[novaroma] Your support for earthquake relief is appreciated
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Caesia=20Albia?= <albia3@-------->
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 02:35:34 +0100 (BST)

June 10, 2002 Dear Friends,As a former earthquake victim and advocate of human rights, I am writing to ask you to consider sending a personalized copy of the letter below or your own version of it to the Prime Minister of Canada www.pm.gc.ca on or about Thursday, June 14, 2001. If you do not feel comfortable with such action and don’t wish to do so, that’s fine - I respect your decision & apologise for disturbing you.Here's the background if you are unfamiliar with this issue: You may have been following the progress of the Caravan of Hope . Through the leadership of Donna Morrison, approximately three containers of relief goods are sitting in a warehouse in Victoria, BC, Canada, awaiting shipment to the San Miguel district of El Salvador. That particular area experienced the worst devastation as a result of the last major earthquake in El Salvador. Unfortunately, overcrowding in the main seaport, Acajutla, caused the local authorities to place an embargo on all relief shipments entering El Salvador via that port . Delivery of the goods can not be guaranteed if shipped by land or rail. So air cargo is the only alternative. Donna has written several letters to the Canadian government, but has not received very satisfactory replies. Our E-mail letters sent to Prime Minister Jean Chretien will indicate our support for Donna and this worthy cause.Thank you for your support!--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Prime Minister of CanadaThe Right Honourable, Jean ChretienDear Sir,The Caravan of Hope is a grass roots effort to support the people of San Miguel, El Salvador, who were devastated by the last major earthquake in that country. Through the hard work of a large number of caring volunteers on Vancouver Island, BC, badly needed medical supplies, school and household supplies were collected, transported to Victoria by volunteer trucks and are now stored in a warehouse in there waiting to be shipped to El Salvador.At this time the authorities in El Salvador have placed
the port of Acajutla. So shipping relief goods directly by sea to El Salvador is impossible.For a month now, Ms Donna Morrison, the organizer of the Caravan of Hope, has written to you and some of your key ministers asking for your assistance to ship the relief goods by air cargo. To date she has received little more than an acknowledgement of her letters. The situation in El Salvador may have lost its position on the world stage, however, the basic needs of the people in the rural villages remain critical. I urge you and your colleagues to support this small Canadian effort by a group of dedicated volunteers.This simple act of humanitarianism could be important. Canada always plays an important role in the Organization of American States (OAS). Ambassador Boehm is the past chair of the Permanent Council of OAS. Canada is known for putting democracy and human rights first and caring about the ordinary people of the Americas. Show the people of El Salvador that Canada is ready to make a tangible difference. Please provide the air transport necessary to ship the Caravan of Hope relief supplies from Victoria to El Salvador.Yours sincerely,(your name here)

---------------------------------
Do something useful with your time online visit
Human Horizons - a world volunteer initiative

---------------------------------
Personal Page

---------------------------------

---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Your support for earthquake relief is appreciated
From:	"Pompeia Cornelia" <scriba_forum@-------->
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 01:46:48 -0000

Salve Caesia:

I have forwarded this post to our provincial lists here in Canada. I will
be sure to write a letter as well.

Bene vale,
Pompeia Cornelia Strabo
Propraetrix pro temp.
Canada Orientalis Provincia
NOVA ROMA

>From: Caesia Albia <albia3@-------->
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: lisa-janelle@--------
>CC: Deb Victor <victord@-------->, Scotty Wotty <scotbig@home.com>,
>Zhong Yanghong <yanghongzhong@-------->, Raymond Yu
><ray_yu@-------->, Auntie Zanna <zan-om@sirius.com>, Harue Ben Zdini
><gtl@-------->, Simon Li <simon_li@douglas.bc.ca>, Sonja Mistymoons
><flight_m@-------->, mike moser <mikemoser4@-------->, ROMA NOVA
><novaroma@-------->, Pamela O'Leary <pamela_oleary@hotmail.com>, Pat
><patellis@-------->, Arlene Patko <patkoa@groupwise.douglas.bc.ca>, Peter
><perom2001@-------->, Diana Shirl Place <dsplace@home.com>, ALIREZA
>SHOKOHMOAYED <alimoayed@-------->, Travis Standen
><travis_standen@-------->, Marc Stas <m4rc@-------->, Sarah Stephens
><stephenss@-------->, Toshihide Takahara
><toshihidet@-------->, "Travis Nicole" <2duke@-------->, Louise Geoff
><logeo@-------->, Lani Gibb <lanigibb@yahoo.com>, Donna Gibson
><Donna.Gibson@-------->, Josh Gibson <josh@paganrites.com>, "Donna
>Gibson $home$" <dgibson@-------->, Greg Hurley
><greghurley@-------->, Jackson <hijackson@hotmail.com>, Darin Jorgenson
><knightofni@-------->, Drew Rhea Joyce <drjoyce@adelaide.on.net>, ZAK
>KiRAS_ <badasskiras@-------->, Keltic Lady <keltic_lady@mybc.com>,
>Lawrence Lee <LKLee@-------->, seo lizz <lizz00@hotmail.com>, Donna Locke
><pat1mel2@-------->, Nicky Love <ntlove@axionet.com>, Duir Macleod
><free_scotland@-------->, Lina Bakhshi <linab555@-------->, Doug Barr
><dbarr@-------->, Behnaz <behnaz@themail.com>, Sarah Benson
><bumgirl0@-------->, Barbara Bremner <bremnerb@groupwise.douglas.bc.ca>,
>Mum Clarke <laurel_clarke@-------->, James Copeland
><jfcopeland@-------->, Denzil Croning <croning@-------->, Mandy Croning
><mandycroning@-------->, Angela Kevin Cunningham <taterrox@home.com>,
>Lynne Currie <curriel@-------->, Dave D'amici <ddamici15@hotmail.com>,
>"D, Spencer, Trav, Jenn" <terata@-------->, Katie Delaney
><ktdelaney@-------->, Nelson Eng <engn@groupwise.douglas.bc.ca>
>Subject: [novaroma] Your support for earthquake relief is appreciated
>Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 02:35:34 +0100 (BST)
>
> June 10, 2002 Dear Friends,As a former earthquake victim and advocate of
>human rights, I am writing to ask you to consider sending a personalized
>copy of the letter below or your own version of it to the Prime Minister of
>Canada www.pm.gc.ca on or about Thursday, June 14, 2001. If you do not
>feel comfortable with such action and don’t wish to do so, that’s fine - I
>respect your decision & apologise for disturbing you.Here's the background
>if you are unfamiliar with this issue: You may have been following the
>progress of the Caravan of Hope . Through the leadership of Donna Morrison,
>approximately three containers of relief goods are sitting in a warehouse
>in Victoria, BC, Canada, awaiting shipment to the San Miguel district of El
>Salvador. That particular area experienced the worst devastation as a
>result of the last major earthquake in El Salvador. Unfortunately,
>overcrowding in the main seaport, Acajutla, caused the local authorities
>to place an embargo on all relief shipments entering El Salvador via that
>port . Delivery of the goods can not be guaranteed if shipped by land or
>rail. So air cargo is the only alternative. Donna has written several
>letters to the Canadian government, but has not received very satisfactory
>replies. Our E-mail letters sent to Prime Minister Jean Chretien will
>indicate our support for Donna and this worthy cause.Thank you for your
>support!--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Prime
>Minister of CanadaThe Right Honourable, Jean ChretienDear Sir,The Caravan
>of Hope is a grass roots effort to support the people of San Miguel, El
>Salvador, who were devastated by the last major earthquake in that country.
> Through the hard work of a large number of caring volunteers on Vancouver
>Island, BC, badly needed medical supplies, school and household supplies
>were collected, transported to Victoria by volunteer trucks and are now
>stored in a warehouse in there waiting to be shipped to El Salvador.At this
>time the authorities in El Salvador have placed an embargo on all relief
>goods entering through the port of Acajutla. So shipping relief goods
>directly by sea to El Salvador is impossible.For a month now, Ms Donna
>Morrison, the organizer of the Caravan of Hope, has written to you and some
>of your key ministers asking for your assistance to ship the relief goods
>by air cargo. To date she has received little more than an acknowledgement
>of her letters. The situation in El Salvador may have lost its position on
>the world stage, however, the basic needs of the people in the rural
>villages remain critical. I urge you and your colleagues to support this
>small Canadian effort by a group of dedicated volunteers.This simple act of
>humanitarianism could be important. Canada always plays an important role
>in the Organization of American States (OAS). Ambassador Boehm is the past
>chair of the Permanent Council of OAS. Canada is known for putting
>democracy and human rights first and caring about the ordinary people of
>the Americas. Show the people of El Salvador that Canada is ready to make a
>tangible difference. Please provide the air transport necessary to ship the
>Caravan of Hope relief supplies from Victoria to El Salvador.Yours
>sincerely,(your name here)
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Do something useful with your time online visit
> Human Horizons - a world volunteer initiative
>
>---------------------------------
> Personal Page
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
>---------------------------------
>ICQ#77556441
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free Yahoo! address at Yahoo! Mail: UK or IE.
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

_________________________________________________________________________
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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Your support for earthquake relief is appreciated
From:	"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@-------->
Date:	Sun, 10 Jun 2001 22:15:33 -0400

Salve,

Please note that chain letters are *not* to be posted on the Main List,
regardless of how worthy the cause may seem. If you wish to pass along
jokes, virus warnings, chain letters, and calls for political action please
do so on your personal accounts and *not* here.

Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena
Curatrix Sermonis

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Subject:	[novaroma] For Concordia {Making Peace}
From:	gcassiusnerva@--------
Date:	Sun, 10 Jun 2001 22:40:45 EDT

On the Backalley List, Sextus Apolonius Draco made a generous and mature
gestrue in offering to end hostilities between him and myself, and in return,
I would like to publically apologize to this young man for any unneccessary
bad feelings and offer my hand in the spirit of Concordia.

I would also like to suggest that a virtual temple to Concordia be
established with a 'guest book' attached, so that any citizens who wish to
make peace may bury the hatchet so to speak.

I am working on another web site at this time, but I may be able to set up
such a virtual temple unless someone else would like to carry this out.

Gaius Cassius Nerva

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Our Crippled Gens System
From:	"Julilla Sempronia Magna" <julilla@-------->
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 03:08:32 -0000

I relish the discussion on this issue, and so many points of Amulius
Claudius Petrus' suggestions seem excellent to me. While some of the
processes described may not be historically accurate, there is an
interesting parallel with the decimation of some of the ancient Roman
houses by the end of the Republic.

Speaking as a relatively new citizen, I persisted like water wearing
down a stone until I received admittance from my paterfamilias; since
then, I have not seen hide nor hair of either of the two other
members of Gens Sempronia. It seems such a shame to let a name with
so much history go dormant again in history, and I'm sure that there
are other gens in similar straits. Patres-(AND matres)familiae
provide key leadership in the community, and it seems most wise to
ensure that these individuals are active and approachable, providing
important orientation and advice for their new members, especially in
the first VI months or so.

---
cura et valeas,

@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| http://julilla.tripod.com/
Daily Life in Ancient Rome
@____@ julilla@--------
||||

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Subject:	[novaroma] Skepticism Reasonable
From:	"Sebastyen Storm" <sstorm1@-------->
Date:	Sun, 10 Jun 2001 22:10:12 -0500

Under the circumstances, I'd say some skepticism is not only resonable, but expected. This has hit everyone hard, but myself most of all. I would like to be able to say that I am righteously indignant at it, and feel unjustly viewed with suspicion, but I cannot, as the facts in this case are overwhelmingly skewed. It is with this that I respectfully shall bow out of joining Gens Cornelia and self terminate my citizenship with Nova Roma for a time. Eventually, if I'm able, I shall endeavor to return, but only once this matter is not burning hotly on the stove, as it were. I appreciaet everything that Nova Roma has done for me, as well as Gens Cornelia and especially Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix, but I must respectfully request that my name, and my Gens be stricken from the record.

Sebastyen Uriel Storm
(Decius Aucelius Sebastianus)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] For Concordia {Making Peace}
From:	Fortunatus <labienus@-------->
Date:	Sun, 10 Jun 2001 22:43:30 -0500

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Salvete

> I would also like to suggest that a virtual temple to Concordia
> be established with a 'guest book' attached, so that any citizens
> who wish to make peace may bury the hatchet so to speak.
>
> I am working on another web site at this time, but I may be able to
> set up such a virtual temple unless someone else would like to
> carry this out.

I am a Web developer by trade, and I have slightly less than 200 Mb
of Web space sitting idle at the moment. If someone were to help me
by providing graphics (I do not have a reasonable graphics package at
home), I would gladly set up a virtual temple for this worthy cause.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus
- --
"Ipsa scientia potestas est."
-Francis Bacon

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Our Crippled Gens System
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 03:42:48 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "Julilla Sempronia Magna" <julilla@l...> wrote:
> I relish the discussion on this issue, and so many points of Amulius
> Claudius Petrus' suggestions seem excellent to me. While some of the
> processes described may not be historically accurate, there is an
> interesting parallel with the decimation of some of the ancient Roman
> houses by the end of the Republic.
>
> Speaking as a relatively new citizen, I persisted like water wearing
> down a stone until I received admittance from my paterfamilias; since
> then, I have not seen hide nor hair of either of the two other
> members of Gens Sempronia. It seems such a shame to let a name with
> so much history go dormant again in history, and I'm sure that there
> are other gens in similar straits. Patres-(AND matres)familiae
> provide key leadership in the community, and it seems most wise to
> ensure that these individuals are active and approachable, providing
> important orientation and advice for their new members, especially in
> the first VI months or so.
>
> ---
> cura et valeas,
>
Salve,

This is one area that I'm hoping a Census will clear up. I too would
hate to see our Republic missing some of the great names of Antiquita.
Yet the Inactive Paters/Maters are preventing citizens from adopting
some of the famous names.

It is my hope that once a Census is completed, we will see the names
of these inactive Paters/Maters removed from the Album. In some cases
this will lead to a Gens disapearing again for a time, but a least
there will be a posibility of the Gens being refounded, this time
hopefully with a Pater/Mater who will take an active intrest. In other
cases we shall see a junior member of the Gens assuming the role of
Pater/Mater. This will be an improvement if this person is ready to
take an active role in Nova Roma.

Vale,
L. Sicinius Drusus

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Subject:	[novaroma]
From:	"Sebastyen Storm" <sstorm1@-------->
Date:	Sun, 10 Jun 2001 22:44:33 -0500

I retract my resignation as a hasty decision made in absolute error, and I beg forgiveness for this mistake.

Dec Auc Sebastianus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] In the Spirit of the Days
From:	CmndrZil@--------
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 01:23:10 EDT

This seems fun and happy. I'm several days behind, so if it became unfun or
unhappy, I hold no responsibility for my actions.

There was the nice little outline given to us by Ias (feels like I know you
now), but I'm not going to use it.

I'm Tarquinia Euphemia. The Tarquinian Gens' little thing in the application
package located most of the members of the gens in California, states that
they worship the Venetrix, and was looking for applicants. They were also
near enough to the top that it wasn't horribly annoying. (That sounds so
crass, I'm sorry. I don't know many people around here. You have to make
friends some how. They might as well be near the top of the list.) I'm not
quite a citizen yet, I've gotta finish that up. Whoever it is exactly that
I'm letting down, sorry about that. I picked Euphemia because I didn't want
to be a number, and if I was going to be one, I didn't know which number to
be. (I am the first daughter, but I'd rather say I'm four hundred and thirty
seven)

I think I've got it backwards, Euphemia Tarquinia... no. I'm not really
sure. Confusion confusion... Well, I'm not really comfortable with it yet
anyway, so I'll just keep it the way it is unless someone tells me otherwise.
(I'm sure you're all about to tell me otherwise.)

I never do anything on time. I usually feel bad about it, but I don't really
care. If I cared about doing things on time, I'd do 'em. I like reminding
people that "patience is a virtue" and I feel uncomfortable when people
expect things from me. So don't, and then I'll surprise you.

I hesitate to reveal clues about how young I am because I've seen what has
been done to Draco, but I don't care. It's an indifference thing I've worked
long and hard to achieve, and I'll just turn the computer off. But anyway,
I've recently graduated from high school. Actually, not just recently, but
Friday. I need my parents permission to breathe until September 9th. On
that day, I will buy lotto tickets and look at pornography because I can.
I'll be attending university in the fall to study linguistics. I get to take
independent study Latin because their program is rather small, and I got to
pick Ovid. I've been doing Virgilis for awhile, and think he's a suck up and
I don't like him. I would just like to know that it's really an infinitive,
is that so much to ask? I need to call the teacher. Thanks for reminding me.

I'm currently weaving a tapestry, as I have mentioned before. I created a
loom by cutting slits into a cardboard box, and scrounged embroidery floss
and thread. Now, all I need is the image. The first one is going to be
dedicated to Diana, and then I'm going to go from there. I can't draw. If I
could draw, I would be such a nice person. But I can't, and so I'm mean, and
there is no joy in my life.

I'm madly in love with a boy who's madly in love with video games. (He's
playing Star Craft right now.) I forgive him. I have an older brother; he's
a jerk. My dad is a jolly round man, and my mom has been really cranky all
week. Fortunately, both of them will sign any piece of paper I stick in
front of them if I look excited enough (just so I don't start talking), and
I'll be a citizen (just as soon as that thing gets to wherever it needs to
go.) I have three dogs, and a Cat. The Cat does not have a name, she is
simply Cat, in any language. I lived in Japan for a year, and had five host
families. I love them all dearly, and wish more than anything to be there
instead of here.

Quick Shameless Plug: If any of you are in a Rotary Club or know someone in
a Rotary Club or live in a town with a Rotary Club (they're all over the
world, no excuses), considering hosting an exchange student. They're
wonderful opportunities for the whole family, and you'd really be helping
someone have the most amazing opportunity of a life time. If you can't host,
consider having one over for dinner sometime. It will give you a chance to
get to know them, and give them a chance to see a different person's way of
life in their "new" country.

Why Nova Roma? The best teacher I've ever had taught me Latin, but more than
anything, he gave me a sense of humor and a sense of something or other gushy
like that. He is the nicest man, and I adore him. My friends and I have a
little cult dedicated to him, as well as Douglas Adams. Around this time
last year, there was talk of printing up t-shirts with a picture of his head
on the front and "Decline This," or some variation thereof, across the back.
We felt it would be a nice slap in the administration's face because they
don't know what "decline" means, and they don't like him. Anyway, NR...
after the Magister, how could I not?

Oh, and I ramble.
Tarquinia Euphemia

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Subject:	[novaroma] Just an observation
From:	"Nick Puglia" <nickpuglia@-------->
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 04:31:17 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "Sebast--------Storm" <sstorm1@a...> wrote:
> I retract my resignation as a hasty decision made in absolute
error, and I beg forgiveness for this mistake.
>

-----I am pretty new here and my membership in Nova Roma has not even
been approved yet but I have read through most of this list and is it
my imagination, or does this sort of thing not happen pretty
regularly here.
It seems not unlike saying, as children, "Well, I'm gonna take my
ball and go home," and then, upon seeing that one of the other kids
has a ball, too, running back and wanting to be a team player again.
I may be completely off base here or, at least, I hope I am.

Nico

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Subject:	[novaroma] Roman Days?
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:32:21 -0000

Salvete,

Those of us who were unable to attend Roman Days are eagerly awaiting
the news of the event.

Valete
L. Sicinius Drusus

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Subject:	[novaroma] Roman Days
From:	jmath669642reng@--------
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:38:25 -0400 (EDT)

Citizens of Nova Roma;

I see in the past three days that we have a new topic of discussion on
the List which has been pursued to appropriate lengths and beyond.
While I hesitate to disturb your long and thoughtful posts therein I
will hope to add some small point of variety in your present
discussions.

That point of variety is a review of Roman Days for those who were not
able to attend. While I am very much afraid that this view will be very
one-sided, (most views being so) never-the-less I hope that you will fin
some small amount of interest here-in.

Upon my arrival in the Glendale Area, I immediately called the Red Roof
Inn, to ascertain who from Nova Roma had arrived. I was immediately
connected to my former Colleague and Consular Associate Q. Fabus Maximus
(just back from Europe) and the lovely and vivacious Helena Galeria. ur
evening began there with a Pizza and a wine jug, and a small out of the
way local shop, where we had the dinng room to ourselves excpt for the
proprietor. I have seldom spent a more pleasurable evening and our
conversation covered a wide range of interests. My thanks to Maximus
for his very, very kind gift of a book on Roman Engineering and copies
of his new magazine. They all now reside as a part of my research
library on Acient Rome. What a kind thought and a valued friend!!!!

Saturday morning dawned beautifully, and arrival at the Marietta Mansion
provided the long-awaited meeting face-to-face with olf friends and new:

--Senators Cincinnatus, Cassia, Consul Cassius, Gallius, Cdr of the
XXIVth Legio (and my Militarium Co-Commander), Tiberius Casca, Cdr of
the VIth Legio (and his faithful Centurian), and of course our
illustrious host Cdr. Amt, and the XXth Legio, as well as many others.
Master Nerva was there, and I thank both he and the Honored Consul for
the placement of chairs at strategic areas around the grounds in the
blessed shade where I could take refuge from the heat of the day and the
wieght of my toga and Dinnitas (Grin!!!!!!!!!!).

The Legio presentations were excellent and Mathew Amt's displays of
Greek and early Republic Armor and wepons were supurb!!! I am always
struck with the detail and skill of his work. The displays of the
Legios XXth and XXIVth were truly spectacular. The XXth Legio was at
it's best with it's Soldier zolympics which fatured the casting of
javelins, "forming testudo", and a variety of century field exercises
that were at times thrilling and heart-stpping, particularly the "charge
of the legion" towards the crowd!!!!

Associated with the XXIVth Legio was a new man known as "The Great
Maximus of the Gladiator School " who played the part of a successful
Gladiator. His displays were extremely well-done and well-recieved, and
his presentations to the vistors and to the re-enactors were also very
well recieved. There were staged arena fights between Gladiators
featuring the excellent "Lupus De Britannia" (Wolf of Britain) and the
"Great Maximus of Roma." The "Lupas" character was played by Casca's
Centurian who will be joining NR as we speak. I am told by Maximus "The
Great" that some photographs will be offered on the website for those
who may be interested.

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

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Subject:	[novaroma] Roman Days (Continued)
From:	jmath669642reng@--------
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:03:54 -0400 (EDT)

Citizens of Nova Roma;

Now turning from the militay / gladitorial aspects for a moment I must
give proper recognition to the ladies who provided everyone who wished
it sustenance and good food throughout both days. At each end of the
camp were two "foo purveyors" one who operated from small street snack
shop properly painted and outfitted, and the other from a fly with
faciities for cooking meats and suchlike. The menus were quite varied
and delishious throughout, Marinated chicken, ostrich sausage rings,
dates with honey and crushed nuts, cherries, apricots, cheese, cakes,
salads, olives. pellino beans, stuffed grape leaves, various fruit
juices, meat balls, gravies and breads in wide variety, and all served
by gentle femmes, with smiles and dignity. My thanks, ladies, for your
excellent care of me and your outstanding craft!!!

The "Fashion Shows" were also a highlight of both days in which those
uniforms and period clothing was explained in detail, and as one
spectator, a Navy Commander, remarked,

"The fashion shows brought it all together , and idetified the players,
so that the spectators could go home with a real understanding of things
Roman."

There was also a display area for Roman Documention, a time-line, and
some excellent paper models of Roman buildings and fort layouts
compliments again of the XXth Legio.

The party on Saturday Night was very well attended, with finger food
aplenty and the movie "Gladiator" playing throughut, as well as a
commentary from some very knowledable people regarding the Gladiator
History and its growth during Republic and Empire. Senator Q. Fabius
Maximus shared his views on the film and the commentaries and produced a
game which interested those in wagering as well. Even some business got
done and ome people have agreed to assist in some of the areas of Nova
Roma in which they have an interest.

There were two "sutlers" or shop=

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Our Crippled Gens System
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:09:54 -0400

Julilla Sempronia Magna wrote:

> I relish the discussion on this issue, and so many points of Amulius
> Claudius Petrus' suggestions seem excellent to me. While some of the
> processes described may not be historically accurate, there is an
> interesting parallel with the decimation of some of the ancient Roman
> houses by the end of the Republic.
>
> Speaking as a relatively new citizen, I persisted like water wearing
> down a stone until I received admittance from my paterfamilias; since
> then, I have not seen hide nor hair of either of the two other
> members of Gens Sempronia. It seems such a shame to let a name with
> so much history go dormant again in history, and I'm sure that there
> are other gens in similar straits. Patres-(AND matres)familiae
> provide key leadership in the community, and it seems most wise to
> ensure that these individuals are active and approachable, providing
> important orientation and advice for their new members, especially in
> the first VI months or so.

It is great to see you agree with my proposed changes to our currently
unhistorical and flawed family system. Being a Pater is a leadership role
and leaders in our nation must be chosen carefully. We must insist a citizen
be an active member for 6 months before having the option of taking up the
leadership of a gens.

Our ancestors would never grant a leadership of a powerful gens to a new
citizen. Why should it be any different here? Lately there as been a great
outcry to make our gens system more historical. I agree 110% with this. An
odd thing is, the majority of those asking for it are blindly going forward
with out repairing obvious and the most unhistorical flaws in our current
system. Making reforms to the gens system must be tackled in a series of
steps. The first being my proposed changes. I am afraid if we do not act now
more time will pass, and with it the problem will become larger with every
passing month.

L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:

> This is one area that I'm hoping a Census will clear up. I too would
> hate to see our Republic missing some of the great names of Antiquita.
> Yet the Inactive Paters/Maters are preventing citizens from adopting
> some of the famous names.
>
> It is my hope that once a Census is completed, we will see the names
> of these inactive Paters/Maters removed from the Album. In some cases
> this will lead to a Gens disapearing again for a time, but a least
> there will be a posibility of the Gens being refounded, this time
> hopefully with a Pater/Mater who will take an active intrest. In other
> cases we shall see a junior member of the Gens assuming the role of
> Pater/Mater. This will be an improvement if this person is ready to
> take an active role in Nova Roma.

Drusus you put too much faith in this proposed census. Not only is my
proposed changes more sensible and easier to apply it would cause less
trauma on the nation.

Why close a gens just because a pater is unable to effectively run it? We
have many strongly active citizens that may wish to take up a pater role
after there 6 month trial period. You also do not take into account the
paters who are rarely seen, but still wish to be part of Nova Roma. Your
census would not correct this. Though by having two paters, one being an
experience citizen, again the gens will grow with out having to close it
first.

Why do we not go to the source of the problem? Open gens is a "free for
all". This is not only unhistorical but pathetic. By just making the process
of opening a new gens only available to experienced citizens it would solve
half of the problems we currently have today with the gens system.

A census is great idea, though it should be used for other reasons. It may
be effective in helping to identify SOME "dead" gens though it would not
solve the majority of our problems to do with paters. Too many doors are
left open for inactive gens to still exist. My proposed changes just seem
easier and more sensible for the situation and time in our history.

Hinc est mei oratio!

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Canada Orientalis Provincia
www.freehost.nu/members/canorien
--

Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/

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Subject:	[novaroma] Roman Days (Conclusion)
From:	jmath669642reng@--------
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:51:06 -0400 (EDT)

Citizens of Nova Roma;

My apologies for the abrupt ending to the last post. I hit the wrong
key. I have been chastised for my sloppy communication procedures, so I
will attempt to be more careful in the future.

Returning to Roman Days, there were two Shop-keepers that I was
privaleged to visit, one was concentrating on cloth and some different
types of children's toys. The second was the shop of the good people
who created my Toga and Tunic for me. Thier special features were a
nice line of weapons, helmets, and a variety of cloth bolts, jewelry,
trinkets and a variety of like materials. There was also a nice
selection of boots. These people are working hard to provide authenic
Roman materials, they are already a part of the Macellum and I strongly
suggest that you review their offerings. I am very pleased with my toga
and tunic.

The Nova Roma Tent (where I had one of my chairs--my thanks to Cassius
and Cassia) was busy all weekend with projected sales of Nova Roma
Banners, coins, games, books and artifacts. There was also a nice
display of the Cassius / Cassia Wedding and exchange of vows, and an
explanation of our support of Vindolanda. There was always a nice
gathering there in the shade, and as usual poor Cassius was subjected to
a barrage of questions by the Militarium Commander Audens, who always
seems to have one more item that needs an answer (Grin!!!!!).

My particular thanks to Cdr Tiberius Casca, who loaned me the "Lupas De
Britannia" (His Centurian) for my body guard during the day on both
days. What an excellent body-guard he made!!! He paid the people with
whom I did business from my own pouch of money, he carried a sword in
defense of me, fetched me cool drinks and stood by my side scowling at
all who appoached. Very satisfying indeed. My thanks for enlivening my
very small part in this Roman Days to such a degree.

As always the park itself is a very lovely one and for the event it was
trimmed and mowed. The variety of greenery around the park and the
different trees and shrubbery was simply a very special backdrop to this
very special encampment. The host staff were, to a person. cheerful and
welcoming, and remembered me even after a two year absence. Very
satisfying indeed!!!!!

In closing, I am sure there is much more to be said about this event,
since as I mentioned in the beginning, it was simply my view of the
event. There were also childen's events, and those who acted for the M.
Mansion and the Event as well. My personal thanks to Commander Amt and
the XXTH Legio for thier very kind invitation to me and reciept of me at
this event. My thanks also to all who were so very kind and who
recieved me with open arms and cries of friendship. I think it reflects
that those who will desire to reap the abundant crop of friendship and
affection, must early sew the seeds for such on the fields of human
endeavor.

I enjoyed myself hugely, and I am just as pleased to be able to share
the event in some small way with you, the Citizens of Nova Roma.

Respectfully;
Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Our Crippled Gens System
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:04:47 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@b...> wrote:

SNIP
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus wrote:
>
> > This is one area that I'm hoping a Census will clear up. I too would
> > hate to see our Republic missing some of the great names of Antiquita.
> > Yet the Inactive Paters/Maters are preventing citizens from adopting
> > some of the famous names.
> >
> > It is my hope that once a Census is completed, we will see the names
> > of these inactive Paters/Maters removed from the Album. In some cases
> > this will lead to a Gens disapearing again for a time, but a least
> > there will be a posibility of the Gens being refounded, this time
> > hopefully with a Pater/Mater who will take an active intrest. In other
> > cases we shall see a junior member of the Gens assuming the role of
> > Pater/Mater. This will be an improvement if this person is ready to
> > take an active role in Nova Roma.
>
> Drusus you put too much faith in this proposed census. Not only is my
> proposed changes more sensible and easier to apply it would cause less
> trauma on the nation.
>
> Why close a gens just because a pater is unable to effectively run
it? We
> have many strongly active citizens that may wish to take up a pater role
> after there 6 month trial period. You also do not take into account the
> paters who are rarely seen, but still wish to be part of Nova Roma. Your
> census would not correct this. Though by having two paters, one being an
> experience citizen, again the gens will grow with out having to close it
> first.
>
Drusus:
The Gens that will be closed by a Census are one and two person Gens
who citizens no longer take part in Nova Roma. They only Exist on
paper. After the Census the Gens I'm talking about closing will be the
ones with ZERO citizens.

> Why do we not go to the source of the problem? Open gens is a "free for
> all". This is not only unhistorical but pathetic. By just making the
process
> of opening a new gens only available to experienced citizens it
would solve
> half of the problems we currently have today with the gens system.
>
> A census is great idea, though it should be used for other reasons.
It may
> be effective in helping to identify SOME "dead" gens though it would not
> solve the majority of our problems to do with paters. Too many doors are
> left open for inactive gens to still exist. My proposed changes just
seem
> easier and more sensible for the situation and time in our history.
>
>
> Hinc est mei oratio!
>
> --
> Amulius Claudius Petrus
> Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
> Canada Orientalis Provincia
> www.freehost.nu/members/canorien
> --
>

Gens Reform is a complex subject and wiil require some admendments to
the Constitution. It will NOT be accomplished with one sweeping lex.
That will create too much oppisition. Gens reform will have to consist
of a series of small steps, each of which will bring us closer to a
historic model.

There is more support for a Census, and it CAN be approved with a
single lex. I'm just being realistic, a Census will happen BEFORE any
leges reforming the Gens are passed.

Vale,
L. Sicinius Drusus

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Subject:	[novaroma] ATTN (Religio Romana): ante diem III Idus Iunias (June 11th)
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <amg@-------->
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:17:58 +0100

Salvete omnes

This is one of the dies nefasti (N), a day on which no legal action can take
place.

Today is the Matralia, the festival of Mater Matuta, goddess of growth,
childbirth, motherhood, and the raising of children. It is said that her
temple at the Forum Boarius was dedicated by King Servius Tullius on this
day. The temple was destroyed by fire in 213 BC and rebuilt the next year.
Mysteriously, women pray to the goddess in the first place not for their own
children but for their nephews and nices. The statue of Mater Matuta can
only be decorated by a 'univira' (the wife of a first marriage). Female
slaves are excluded from the temple, with the exception of one who is
ritually slapped on her head and beaten, either as a warning to others, or
as a fertility rite. Testuacia (toasted sacred cakes) are offered to the
Goddess, cooked in 'testu' (old-fashioned earthenware pots).

Today is the aniversary of a temple of Fortuna at the Forum Boarius, also
dedicated by King Servius Tullius on the same day according to the legend.
This Fortuna is called 'Virgo' (virgin) and girls dedicate their robes to
her at marriage.
The tenple contained a mysterious statue covered by wavy robes (such as
those worn by the kings of Rome), which Ovid thought to represent Servius
Tullius himself. On the other hand, Pliny and Varro thought that it
represented Fortuna, though the robes had belonged to Servius Tullius and
had been made by Tanaquil. Together with the temple of Mater Matuta, the
temple of Fortuna was destroyed by fire in 213 BC and rebuilt the next year.

Today is also the aniversary of a shrine of Concordia that Livia offered to
her husband Augustus in 7 BC.

I also remind that Iunius is the month of Iuno, month of the young
(iuuenes).

Dii vos ament
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] For Concordia {Making Peace}
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 15:50:46 +0200

Ave Nerva,

> On the Backalley List, Sextus Apolonius Draco made a generous and mature
> gestrue in offering to end hostilities between him and myself, and in
return,
> I would like to publically apologize to this young man for any
unneccessary
> bad feelings and offer my hand in the spirit of Concordia.
>
> I would also like to suggest that a virtual temple to Concordia be
> established with a 'guest book' attached, so that any citizens who wish to
> make peace may bury the hatchet so to speak.
>
> I am working on another web site at this time, but I may be able to set
up
> such a virtual temple unless someone else would like to carry this out.

I think this is a very good idea. I am not a web designer of any sort, but
if I could help in writing contents, feel free to drop me a line.

Vale bene,
Draco

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Our Crippled Gens System
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 14:15:37 -0400

> Drusus:
> The Gens that will be closed by a Census are one and two person Gens
> who citizens no longer take part in Nova Roma. They only Exist on
> paper. After the Census the Gens I'm talking about closing will be the
> ones with ZERO citizens.

Yes but to my knowledge there are larger gens no longer accepting new
applicants because of rarely seen paters. Like I said in the last post, a
census is great idea, though it should be used for other reasons. It may be
effective in helping to identify SOME "dead" gens though it would not solve
many of our problems to do with paters.

A census is necessary to get rid of "dead" citizens, this is only half of
the issue at hand. All it would take to solve many of the gens problems is
placing experienced citizens in the role of gens leaders. It only makes
sense to have the most experienced and active citizen run a gens no?

>
> Gens Reform is a complex subject and wiil require some admendments to
> the Constitution. It will NOT be accomplished with one sweeping lex.
> That will create too much oppisition. Gens reform will have to consist
> of a series of small steps, each of which will bring us closer to a
> historic model.
>
> There is more support for a Census, and it CAN be approved with a
> single lex. I'm just being realistic, a Census will happen BEFORE any
> leges reforming the Gens are passed.

I know it is a complex subject, that's why in my last message to you I said
deleting gens and citizens would place severe trauma on the nation. I also
said in my last message to you, making reforms to the gens system must be
tackled in a series of steps. The first being my proposed changes. I am
afraid if we do not act now more time will pass, and with it the problem
will become larger with every passing month.

I never once said a census is a bad idea. Though it is only common sense to
make a strong gens system before deleting citizens and gens. By having a
stronger gens system the better the nation will fair during the upset of
deleting.

We can start with a lex stating that the most experienced (must be over 6
months) and active member of a gens by judgment of the citizens of the gens
will become the pater/mater. From then on the pater/mater must be replaced
with a member that is active and with at least 6 months experience. If the
current pater/mater wishes he/she can also leave the decision up to the
citizens in the gens though they must select a citizen with at least 6
months experience. To do this the current pater/mater must appoint a citizen
to over see that the decision is made fairly. This citizen would play the
role of pater/mater until a permanent replacement is selected.

Hinc est mei oratio!

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Canada Orientalis Provincia
www.freehost.nu/members/canorien
--

Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Just an observation
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@-------->
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:43:11 -0700

Ave,

No this does not happen all the time at all. Decius Aucelius has been
victimized and his identity taken away from him and used by another
individual. He is going through a rough time. I have talked him out of
resigning...and instead he will take a leave of absence to recover from
this episode. The Censors are still going to conduct a full
investigation on this matter.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor of Nova Roma

Nick Puglia wrote:
>
> --- In novaroma@--------, "Sebast--------Storm" <sstorm1@a...> wrote:
> > I retract my resignation as a hasty decision made in absolute
> error, and I beg forgiveness for this mistake.
> >
>
> -----I am pretty new here and my membership in Nova Roma has not even
> been approved yet but I have read through most of this list and is it
> my imagination, or does this sort of thing not happen pretty
> regularly here.
> It seems not unlike saying, as children, "Well, I'm gonna take my
> ball and go home," and then, upon seeing that one of the other kids
> has a ball, too, running back and wanting to be a team player again.
> I may be completely off base here or, at least, I hope I am.
>
> Nico
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> [www.debticated.com]
>
>
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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Our Crippled Gens System
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:50:26 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@b...> wrote:
SNIP
>
> We can start with a lex stating that the most experienced (must be
over 6
> months) and active member of a gens by judgment of the citizens of
the gens
> will become the pater/mater. From then on the pater/mater must be
replaced
> with a member that is active and with at least 6 months experience.
If the
> current pater/mater wishes he/she can also leave the decision up to the
> citizens in the gens though they must select a citizen with at least 6
> months experience. To do this the current pater/mater must appoint a
citizen
> to over see that the decision is made fairly. This citizen would
play the
> role of pater/mater until a permanent replacement is selected.
>
> Hinc est mei oratio!
>
> --
> Amulius Claudius Petrus
> Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
> Canada Orientalis Provincia
> www.freehost.nu/members/canorien
> --

That can't be done with a lex.
The Constitution (II D 3) states
"Each gens shall, through whatever means it may determine appropriate,
have a paterfamilias (fem. materfamilias) who shall act as the leader
of the gens and speak for it when necessary. The holder of this
position must be registered as such with the censors. The
paterfamilias may, at his or her discretion, expel members of their
gens, or accept new members into it."

Your proposal violates this section of the constitution. Right now a
Gens MAY select a Pater by your method, but any lex forcing them to do
this would be Vetoed by the Tribunes.

It would require an admendment to the Constitution. That would require
approval by the Senate, and I see little chance of the Senate
approving any changes in the manner that Paters are chosen. The First
step in getting an admendment approved is to start contacting Senators
and convincing them that your change is desirable.

Vale,
L. Sicinius Drusus

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Gentes et Familiae (was Gens Reform)
From:	Iasonvs Serenvs Carolvs <iasonvs_serenvs@-------->
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:55:23 -0700 (PDT)

Salve Gn. Salix,

Et omnes.

Well put.

Serenus
--- Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> wrote:
> Salvete omnes.
>
> I have been reading your comments on the reform of
> gentes issue, and I
> would like a few clarifications on my own. I know
> some of this comments
> have already been made by others, but I think that
> having all of them
> in a single post might prove helpful for a proper
> addressment of this
> issue.
>
> 1.- Our current situation is, simply put,
> historically incorrect. I am
> not making a point of the efficiency of our current
> system of gentes
> (yet), I am just saying that it is not historically
> correct. If we
> really want to rebuild Roman culture, we can not
> leave such an
> important issue as the Roman familiar system out of
> scope.
>
> 2.- The best moment to implement a change in our
> familiar system is
> right now. The more citizens we have, the more
> thraumatic and complex
> this needed change will become.
>
> 3.- I am not talking about breaking gentes into
> several smaller new
> gentes. Gentes and familiae were mutually inclusive
> in Roma Antiqua.
> Gens Cornelia, gens Iulia, etc... will continue to
> exist; the citizens
> that belong to them will continue to belong to them
> (if that is their
> wish); they can be just of different familiae (and
> have different
> cognomina), but they can still share a common nomen,
> as well as the
> Gods of the Gens (common to all familiae inside a
> single gens), any
> special relations they could have, mailing lists,
> etc...
>
> 4.- To further explain what I mean, let me place two
> examples: example
> A will deal with an already accounted citizen, and
> example B will deal
> with a hypothetical citizen.
>
> A.- I, Gnaeus Salix Astur, currently belong to the
> Gens Salicia. The
> paterfamilias of gens Salicia is my good friend and
> pater Marcus Salix
> Viglilius. If this proposal was implemented, I would
> have two options:
>
> A.1.- I could "stay" with Marcus Salix Vigilius
> and accept him as my
> pater. As I would now belong to the familia Salicia
> Vigilia, I would
> have to change my cognomen accordingly, and I would
> adopt my current
> cognomen as an agnomen. I would be named Gnaeus
> Salix Vigilius Astur,
> and would be legally an adopted son of Marcus Salix
> Vigilius (of
> course, if I preferred it, I could also be known as
> Gnaeus Salix
> Vigilius, or perhaps Gnaeus Salix Vigilius
> Asturianus, which would be
> the most historically correct form).
>
> A.2.- I could create a new familia inside the gens
> Salicia (with the
> permission of an already existing paterfamilias of
> that gens). As such,
> I would become the pater of the familia Salicia
> Astur, and I would
> still
> be known as Gnaeus Salix Astur.
>
> B.- Now, let's face the situation of a new citizen.
> According to
> ancient Roman law, he would be a peregrinus (a
> foreigner). He could
> acquire Novoroman citizenship through two means:
>
> B.1.- He could be "adopted" by an existing
> paterfamilias. For
> example, I, Gnaeus Salix Astur, paterfamilias of the
> familia Salicia
> Astur, could adopt my good friend Chema into my
> familia with the name
> Caius Salix Astur Scevola.
>
> B.2.- He could ask for the permission of an
> existing paterfamilias to
> create a new familia within the same gens. My friend
> Chema could ask
> for my permission to create a new gens. I would
> consult it with Marcus
> Salix Vigilius (as "caput gentis", or head of the
> gens), and, if there
> is no opposition, he would become the paterfamilias
> of a new familia
> inside gens Salicia, let's say familia Salicia
> Chemiana, with the name
> Caius Salix Chemianus.
>
> I know there are some aspects I have not touched,
> but I think this is
> good enough to begin a proper discussion.
>
>
>
>
> =====
> Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
> Gnaeus Salix Astur.
> Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.
>
> __________________________________________________
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=====
Iasonvs Serenvs Carolvs Peregrinvs
(this is a post for which I accept all responsibility)
"The cosmos works by harmony of tensions, like the lyre and the bow."
"Time is a game played beautifully by children."
Heraclitus of Ephesus
HeraclitusFreehold@--------

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Subject:	[novaroma] Appointment
From:	jmath669642reng@--------
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:21:43 -0400 (EDT)

Citizens of Nova Roma;

I had the privelage of meeting both G. Cassius Nerva and his very lovely
wife Josefina at Roman Days. He was instrumental in providing a
comfortable Chair for me to relax in and I thank him for that thought
exceedingly.

Citizen Nerva has approached me and requested that I consider a position
for him in some position working with me. I am pleased to welcome
Master Nerva as a member of my Staff who work with me to improve both
Nova Roma and to develop the Sodalitas Militarium and the Provincia Nova
Britannia.

Citizen Nerva, in another fomer, persona, has done good service for Nova
Roma as my Assensai when I was privaleged to serve as Consul. He has
asked for similar duties with me as a ProConsul.

I therefore appoint G Cassius Nerva as my Civil Libraii and Assensai for
the Provincia Nova Britannia and I further state that in the form of a
Provincial Edict, to take effect immediately.

I am most pleased to have met both Master Nerva and his lovely wife and
to have talked with both of them at length during the Roman Days
Weekend. He has some excellent ideas, and considering there are those
who fell that I need more assistance in my duties in Nova Roma, and
these people whose opinions I respect, I am pleased to appoint Master
Nerva to a position which will assist both myself and Nova Roma to move
along toward her destiny.

Assensai / Libraii Nerva will be tasked to advise me in the aspects f my
projcted plan for the strengthening of Provincia Nova Britannia and in
the Development and Organization of my Provincial Plan / Design.

Welcome aboard Master Nerva!!!!

Respectfully;
Marcus Audens
ProConsul -- Provincia Nova Britannia

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] For Concordia {Making Peace}
From:	QFabiusMax@--------
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:40:03 EDT

In a message dated 6/10/2001 9:05:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
labienus@-------- writes:

<< I am a Web developer by trade, and I have slightly less than 200 Mb
of Web space sitting idle at the moment. If someone were to help me
by providing graphics (I do not have a reasonable graphics package at
home), I would gladly set up a virtual temple for this worthy cause.
>>
Salvete!

If someone knows when Concordia's temple was erected, i'll draw the facade.

Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus

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Subject:	[novaroma] On a national census
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:04:53 -0400

Salvete

My apologies for being somewhat absent from the list as of late. I have had
a number of personal issues come up lately (one of which, unfortunately,
prevented me from attending Roman Days). I'm trying to catch up on some of
the topics that have come up as of late.

If I gather the gist of the conversation correctly, the purpose of the
proposed Census would be to remove inactive cives from the album civium. I
see no reason to do so.

We currently have measures in place to deal with Citizens who are inactive.
Non-taxpayers are relegated to the capiti censi. Non-voters are relegated to
the urban tribes. Thus, those who are, for whatever reason, inactive are
placed in "holding" until such time as they may choose to once again become
active in Nova Roman society. I must say I fail to see the value in
rescinding the Citizenship of such people, except a desire for tidiness in
the administration of the album civium. I don't see that as sufficient cause
to impose such a drastic penalty (indeed, our "ultimate penalty") merely for
a failure to answer communications in a given year.

I am still open to being convinced that we are somehow gravely harmed by
having inactive cives in the album civium, but to date I have not seen any
convincing argument that not answering email should be what is, for us, the
equivalent of a capital offense.

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org

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Subject:	[novaroma] On Censorial Quaestores
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:05:29 -0400

Salvete

My apologies for being somewhat absent from the list as of late. I have had
a number of personal issues come up lately (one of which, unfortunately,
prevented me from attending Roman Days). I'm trying to catch up on some of
the topics that have come up as of late.

No Quaestores are assigned to the Censores, because the office does not
involve the handling of money. There is nothing in the Censorial job
description I can see that would require such an assistant; the Censores
don't spend any money from the treasury. The Censores can appoint scribae,
and that should be sufficient for any tasks they may need to delegate.

Too, I don't see the need for any sort of new vigintsexviri to fill the
position. What would be the advantage of such an office as opposed to the
scribes the Censores can already appoint?

For the quaestores who are complaining that there is little for them to do,
I say that such might be the case today, but in the future (once magistrates
like the Praetores and Aediles start organizing events and managing
facilities) the positions will become quite important.

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org

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Subject:	[novaroma] On joining gentes
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:06:55 -0400

Salvete

My apologies for being somewhat absent from the list as of late. I have had
a number of personal issues come up lately (one of which, unfortunately,
prevented me from attending Roman Days). I'm trying to catch up on some of
the topics that have come up as of late.

Aside from taking issue with the notion that our current system is
"crippled" (it seems to be working pretty well, even if it does have its
flaws), I have seen several excellent ideas on this topic, and wanted to add
a few thoughts of my own. Specifically:

Rather than limiting gentes to either accepting/not accepting members, it
should be easy enough to allow three different options. To wit:

1) "Closed": The gens is not accepting new members at all.
2) "Semi-Open": The gens is accepting new members with the prior approval
of the paterfamilias. (This is how joining gentes currently works.)
3) "Open": The gens is accepting new members sight-unseen.

Bearing in mind that even a paterfamilias of a gens with an "open" policy
retains the power to kick someone out of that gens if they turn out to be
incompatible. If a number of gentes were to set their policy to the this new
third option, it might very well alleviate a lot of the problem the Censores
have been having in regards to getting in touch with patresfamilia to grant
approval for new members. As far as I can tell, this change needn't even be
done through the passage of a lex; the Censores themselves could enact it
through an edictum.

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org

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Subject:	[novaroma] On inactive patresfamilia
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:07:31 -0400

Salvete

My apologies for being somewhat absent from the list as of late. I have had
a number of personal issues come up lately (one of which, unfortunately,
prevented me from attending Roman Days). I'm trying to catch up on some of
the topics that have come up as of late.

In regards to the question of inactive patresfamilia, I agree that it is a
problem, and one that should be addressed. The solutions that have been
presented thusfar, however, seem to me a tad complex. What if patresfamilia
were simply required to be members of the rural tribes? It seems to me that
if we require a paterfamilias to be engaged enough to vote once a year, that
would go a long way towards ensuring they were otherwise interested in Nova
Roma. This would probably require a Constitutional amendment, something to
the effect of changing the second sentence of paragraph II.D.3 to read:

"The holder of this position must be registered as such with the censors and
may be subject to criteria as determined by lex passed in one of the
comitia."

And then passing a lex making the appropriate restriction requiring
patresfamilia to be a member of the rural tribes.

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org

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Subject:	[novaroma] Salvete, Omnes
From:	mme753bc@--------
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:50:56 -0000

Nomen mihi est Caecilia Queria Fortunata; nova civis sum.

My "pater", Ianus Querius Armoricus Lutecio, suggested that I
introduce myself to the membership of Nova Roma. I appreciate his
(and Nova Roma's) welcoming me into the society. While I am an
American, I chose to affiliate with a gens listed as being located in
the Provincia Gallia, because I am a teacher of both Latin and
French, and I appreciate any opportunity to practice both languages.
I first discovered Nova Roma as part of a conference for Latin
teachers last summer, and while my time during the school year is
limited, I am looking forward to having more time to devote to
messages and e-mails now that our academic year is ended. I am
married and the mother of 2 teenage sons. I like to read, travel,
and prepare and eat French cuisine! My civic interest currently is
heading our city's Sister-City committee to plan exchanges between
our city and a city in East France. Bonam fortunam omnibus!

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Subject:	[novaroma] Changing the Constitution
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:29:35 -0400

Salve civis et amicus,

Today I wish to present to you a proposed change of our constitution
covering the area of gens leadership by Paterfamilias. Many citizens wish to
make our gens system more historically accurate. Many others as well as I
think this is a great idea. In our constitution it states that the family
and clan systems are the backbone of Roman society. By changing our gens
system we are making our society more Roman by making our gens more Roman.

Many different ideas of how this might be achieved have been debated over
the past few days, although in my opinion, we would be quite foolish to
make any changes before making adjustments on how a gens is run. I have read
many citizens¹ stories of how long it takes to be accepted into a gens. Many
gens are inactive and are taking up space, others have active citizens
though with inactive gens leaders. Something is very ill with our family
system of Nova Roma. After much consideration and talking to others I have
come to the conclusion that paters/materfamilias are the source. Now I am
not putting blame on these citizens who fit in this category, but rather I
am blaming our constitution. The way gens where organised was probably great
when Nova Roma was in its first year or so, although evidently something is
no longer right with this system which is all around us. Take a look at the
list of gens and the number of II person families.

How can any historical changes take place without having effective gens
leaders to organise these changes? Sadly, the current constitution will make
it impossible for effective gens leadership to ever develop on a large
scale. Something must be done. This is why I propose the following changes
to our constitution:

Opening a New Gens

For a citizen to open a new gens he/she must have VI months of active
service. The citizen¹s current gens pater/materfamilias is to decide if the
citizen has been responsible and active enough to handle the responsibility.

Why:
The reason for this change is that is will eliminate all the small inactive
gens by creating all new gens with leaders that active citizens and have a
good idea how the nation works.

Selecting Patersfamilias and Materfamilias

The current pater/materfamilias has two choices for selecting a replacement.

OPTION I: The current pater/materfamilias can select a replacement from the
citizens belonging to the gens as long as the citizen has VI months of
experience in Nova Roma.

OPTION II: The current pater/materfamilias can select a temporary
replacement. This temporary replacement as all the authority of a
pater/materfamilias although he/she must oversee an election within a month
from within the gens to select a permanent pater/materfamilias.

Why:
This will make sure that the current leadership experience is handed over to
a citizen of equal experience and can make sure the gens will not fall
behind from lack of experience. This will maintain the same quality of
leadership the gens was created with originally.

Citizens of Nova Roma, to make any of these changes a reality we must submit
it to senator to see if he will put it forward. I need to see how much of
the population thinks these changes would be worth while. Any support and
comments that could be used to convince our government that these additions
to the constitution would be worthwhile are greatly appreciated.

Hinc est mei oratio!

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Canada Orientalis Provincia
www.freehost.nu/members/canorien
--

Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] For Concordia {Making Peace}
From:	"Wayne Daniels" <w.r.daniels@-------->
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 15:15:26 -0400

>I would also like to suggest that a virtual temple to Concordia be
established with a 'guest book' attached, so that any citizens who wish to make peace may bury the hatchet so to speak.

Alternatively, you might consider an image of the Temple of Janus. The doors of the place were closed only when peace prevailed throughout the empire -- two or three times, I think, while in the Third Century the place must have been well aired. Here's a fair image of a coin of Nero, showing the actual, long-vanished structure.

http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/ric/nero/RIC_0043a-r.jpg

W.D.

>
> I am working on another web site at this time, but I may be able to set
up
> such a virtual temple unless someone else would like to carry this out.

I think this is a very good idea. I am not a web designer of any sort, but
if I could help in writing contents, feel free to drop me a line.

Vale bene,
Draco


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: For Concordia {Making Peace}
From:	"Julilla Sempronia Magna" <julilla@-------->
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:45:23 -0000

> << I am a Web developer by trade, and I have slightly less than 200
Mb of Web space sitting idle at the moment. If someone were to help
me by providing graphics (I do not have a reasonable graphics package
at home), I would gladly set up a virtual temple for this worthy
cause.

Umm... would this help? I had a small brainwave and just dummied up
the following pages.

http://julilla.tripod.com/concordia/

I too am a Web developer when I am not I. on vacation or II. having
more fun expermenting with a new "look" for NR.

The images are from CyberSites's "S.P.Q.R. on-line Web mystery, sadly
no longer available to enjoy on-line.

---
cura et valeas,

@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| http://julilla.tripod.com/
Daily Life in Ancient Rome
@____@ julilla@--------
||||

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: On inactive patresfamilia
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:59:57 -0000


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Roman Days conclusion
From:	"A. Cato" <a.cato@-------->
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:25:59 -0400

Salve Marce Audens: I am pleased to hear that everyone had a great time. Now I have to get a tunic and toga as well. We are having a gathering near Detroit in August. It will be at old Fort Malden, on the Canadian side of the Detroit River. Thankyou for filling us in on the event.
Ave atque vale, ... Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato, ... Rogator, Novae Romae
Procurator, Provincia Canada Orientalis

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: On a national census
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 22:34:35 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@n...> wrote:
> Salvete
>
> My apologies for being somewhat absent from the list as of late. I
have had
> a number of personal issues come up lately (one of which, unfortunately,
> prevented me from attending Roman Days). I'm trying to catch up on
some of
> the topics that have come up as of late.
>
> If I gather the gist of the conversation correctly, the purpose of the
> proposed Census would be to remove inactive cives from the album
civium. I
> see no reason to do so.
>
> We currently have measures in place to deal with Citizens who are
inactive.
> Non-taxpayers are relegated to the capiti censi. Non-voters are
relegated to
> the urban tribes. Thus, those who are, for whatever reason, inactive are
> placed in "holding" until such time as they may choose to once again
become
> active in Nova Roman society. I must say I fail to see the value in
> rescinding the Citizenship of such people, except a desire for
tidiness in
> the administration of the album civium. I don't see that as
sufficient cause
> to impose such a drastic penalty (indeed, our "ultimate penalty")
merely for
> a failure to answer communications in a given year.
>
> I am still open to being convinced that we are somehow gravely harmed by
> having inactive cives in the album civium, but to date I have not
seen any
> convincing argument that not answering email should be what is, for
us, the
> equivalent of a capital offense.
>
> Valete,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> Consul
>

Salve Consul,

I have several reasons for desiring a Census,

The first is Historical accuracy. A Census was considered one of the
most important tasks that the Censores of Antiquita were called on to
perform.

The Second is a desire that the Album be correct, not just for the
sake of tiddiness, but to make it easier to plan for the future. IMHO
many of the "inactive" citizens are in fact people who have left Nova
Roma without bothering to resign. A Census would allow us to identify
these people who no longer desire to be a part of Nova Roma.

The Third is I consider this a way of solving the inactive Pater
problem. I think that many of the inactive Paters are also people who
no longer desire to be a part of Nova Roma.

The Forth is a desire to insure that our records are accurate. The
multiple attempts at contacting citizens will allow the Censores to
update the information on on those who do desire to retain thier
citizenship.

Since we don't have taxes yet, we have no capiti censi, so all we can
do is look to see if someone is in an Urban Tribe. That alone isn't a
good measure of being active. The Citizen may simply be apolicital,
and not care who the Magistrates are, but still be very intersted in
the Religio or some other aspect of Nova Roma.

Vale,
L. Sicinius Drusus

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Subject:	[novaroma] Pre- Roman Days West
From:	"Sean Sheridan Richards" <legioix@-------->
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 23:21:25 -0000

Sort of....

Old Ft MacArthur Days
July 7-8

At Old Ft MacArthur in San Pedro CA

Anyone wishing to attend as part of Legio IX Hispana should contact me ASAP

Salvete,
Gaius Valerius Tacitus Hibernicus
Centurio, Legio IX Hispana

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] On a national census
From:	TSardonicus@--------
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 19:29:58 EDT

Salvete,

In a message dated 6/11/01 2:05:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
germanicus@-------- writes:

> Salvete
>
> My apologies for being somewhat absent from the list as of late. I have had
> a number of personal issues come up lately (one of which, unfortunately,
> prevented me from attending Roman Days).

Having a baby will do that.

> If I gather the gist of the conversation correctly, the purpose of the
> proposed Census would be to remove inactive cives from the album civium. I
> see no reason to do so.
>
> We currently have measures in place to deal with Citizens who are inactive.
> Non-taxpayers are relegated to the capiti censi. Non-voters are relegated
to
> the urban tribes. Thus, those who are, for whatever reason, inactive are
> placed in "holding" until such time as they may choose to once again become
> active in Nova Roman society. I must say I fail to see the value in
> rescinding the Citizenship of such people, except a desire for tidiness in
> the administration of the album civium. I don't see that as sufficient
cause
> to impose such a drastic penalty (indeed, our "ultimate penalty") merely
for
> a failure to answer communications in a given year.

I agree wholeheartedly with this, and as you know I was incommunicado for a
few months due to personals reasons. I would certainly have understood if my
citizenship were void after a prolonged absence, but I was pleased to find
that I it was not.

> I am still open to being convinced that we are somehow gravely harmed by
> having inactive cives in the album civium, but to date I have not seen any
> convincing argument that not answering email should be what is, for us, the
> equivalent of a capital offense.

I can see no argument relating to this to convince me otherwise, except (knew
there was a but, didn't ya?) those concerning inactive leaders. By leaders,
I mean Patres/Matresfamilia, Provincial magistrates, all the way up to
Consul...in short, those who have promised time and energy, have been granted
a position due to their promises, and simply "fall off the face of the earth".

Perhaps this Census should focus on those in positions of authority and
responsibility.

Valete,
Sardonicus

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