Subject:	[novaroma] Re: On a national census
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 00:20:17 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, TSardonicus@a... wrote:
> Salvete,
>
SNIP
>
> I agree wholeheartedly with this, and as you know I was
incommunicado for a
> few months due to personals reasons. I would certainly have
understood if my
> citizenship were void after a prolonged absence, but I was pleased
to find
> that I it was not.
>
The Proposed Census would take more than being incommunicado for a
while to cause your citizenship to be revoked. You would have to do
ALL of the following over a 9 month period.

1. Don't Vote
2. Don't Pay any Taxes
3. Don't Reply to an e-mail
4. Don't Reply to another e-mail
5. Don't Return a Phone call
6. Don't Return another phone call
7. Don't Reply to a Snail-mail
8. Don't Contact the Censors after a post on the main list.
9. Don't respond to any efforts by friends or Gens members that try to
contact you abou the Main list post.

IMHO someone who does all of that has no intrest in remaining a
citizen. Why not give them what they want and remove thier names from
the Album?

Vale,
L. Sicinius Drusus




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Subject:	[novaroma] M/Paterfamilias Accountability
From:	"Domna Claudia Auspicata" <comptess@-------->
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:26:00 +1200

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Salvete Quirites.

I have been following the proposals of gen-restructure with interest.
I am particularly interested in the proposal put forward by Amulius
Claudius Petrus regarding a minimum period of citizenship before one
can 'become' a M/Paterfamilias. He writes:

"Opening a New Gens

For a citizen to open a new gens he/she must have VI months of active
service. The citizen¹s current gens pater/materfamilias is to decide
if the
citizen has been responsible and active enough to handle the
responsibility."

My particular interest in this may be understood if one reads the
following excerpt from the Lex Vedia de Ratione Comitiorum Populi
Tributorum:
"V.A.3
Should a tie occur within a given tribe, the winner shall be the
candidate who is a paterfamilias or materfamilias, or if such shall
not decide the issue, the winner shall be decided by lot. The
rogatores may decide how such decisions by lot shall be made in a
fair manner."

This part of the lex has bothered me because there need be no real
distinction between a M/Paterfamilias candidate and any other
candidate. At present a new citizen can easily join as a
M/Paterfamilias, pay taxes even and have an unfair advantage in an
election over another candidate for no other reason than they 'chose'
to start a new gens. I am not assuming a M/Paterfamilias is less
active in the interests of NR, I am pointing out that many citizens
who are not 'head' of a family are doing just as much. And so I
fully support any measures that would more likely ensure that a
M/Paterfamilias has 'earnt' their election advantage. A six month
period may suffice, although I believed there was already a six month
period before any citizen could run for office anyway? Perhaps a
longer waiting period before one could start a new gens? Perhaps the
lex should be altered? I am unsure how to 'fix' this if indeed anyone
else believes it requires 'fixing'.


Valete bene
Domna Claudia Auspicata

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Changing the Constitution
From:	Kristoffer From <from@-------->
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 02:28:39 +0200

Amulius Claudius Petrus wrote:
> Selecting Patersfamilias and Materfamilias
>
> The current pater/materfamilias has two choices for selecting a replacement.
>
> Why:
> This will make sure that the current leadership experience is handed over to
> a citizen of equal experience and can make sure the gens will not fall
> behind from lack of experience. This will maintain the same quality of
> leadership the gens was created with originally.

Salve, Amuli Claudi Petre.

I agree completely with your proposed restriction on the foundation of
new gentes, as originally suggested by Gnaeus Salix Astur.

The second part, I cannot comprehend the reasoning behind. If there is a
paterfamilias available for selecting a replacement, why would he do so?
And if there are no members of his gens who has been citizens for the
proposed six months, would then the gens stand without leadership?

I suggest you carefully study the discussion on gentes and familiae, and
consider the points brought up there. The proposed census will give us a
"clean slate" from which we can structure our gentes, along the
guidelines of the original proposal by Lucius Sicinius Drusus. These
ideas should not only prevent further bottlenecks in the system, but
also provide our beloved res publica with a solid foundation upon which
she and her gentes may grow and prosper.

Please note how I didn't say "in my opinion" once. In my eyes, this is a
truth not dependant on the point of view of any beholder.

Vale,

Titus Octavius Pius,
Consiliarius Thules,
Praeco Anarei Thules,
Scriba to the Curator Araneum

AKA Kristoffer From

---

Si hoc signum legere potes,
operis boni in rebus latinis alacribus
et fructuosis potiri potes.

- Not-so-famous quotation

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: On a national census
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 20:56:23 -0400

Lucius Sicinius Drusus wrote:

I see how this would work well. Though all the phoning, and snail mail would
run up a cost. A lot of calls would also be international also. Would the
nation be paying for this or volunteers? I am wondering if it is worth it at
this time. Maybe we should keep it exactly the same though with a choice
between either one phone call or one snail mail? That would cost us less and
probably get the job done well enough.

Hinc est mei oratio!

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Canada Orientalis Provincia
www.freehost.nu/members/canorien
--

Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/


> 1. Don't Vote
> 2. Don't Pay any Taxes
> 3. Don't Reply to an e-mail
> 4. Don't Reply to another e-mail
> 5. Don't Return a Phone call
> 6. Don't Return another phone call
> 7. Don't Reply to a Snail-mail
> 8. Don't Contact the Censors after a post on the main list.
> 9. Don't respond to any efforts by friends or Gens members that try to
> contact you abou the Main list post.




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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: On a national census
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 01:09:03 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@b...> wrote:
> Lucius Sicinius Drusus wrote:
>
> I see how this would work well. Though all the phoning, and snail
mail would
> run up a cost. A lot of calls would also be international also.
Would the
> nation be paying for this or volunteers? I am wondering if it is
worth it at
> this time. Maybe we should keep it exactly the same though with a choice
> between either one phone call or one snail mail? That would cost us
less and
> probably get the job done well enough.
>
> Hinc est mei oratio!
>
> --
> Amulius Claudius Petrus
> Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
> Canada Orientalis Provincia
> www.freehost.nu/members/canorien
> --
>
Salve,

Most of the cost of international calls and Snail-mail can be avoided
by working with the Propraetors who would assign a Scriba in each
Provincia to handle the calls and snail-mail. This would also help
solve any problems communicating with citizens who may not be as
fluent in spoken English as they are in written English.

Vale,
L. Sicinius Drusus




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Changing the Constitution
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:16:57 -0400

Titus Octavius Pius wrote:
>
> The second part, I cannot comprehend the reasoning behind. If there is a
> paterfamilias available for selecting a replacement, why would he do so?
> And if there are no members of his gens who has been citizens for the
> proposed six months, would then the gens stand without leadership?

Well hopefully a citizen who has been appointed into the role of a gens
leader would not disappear without selecting a replacement. Yes, it is
likely is would still happen though much less often with the first of my
proposed changes. Please note with my updated version of gens changes that I
posted in the message topic "Changing the Constitution" they would only work
if a census in implemented. They go hand in hand. Thus, I am very curious
about the happenings of the possible census.

If there is to be a VI month experience qualification for opening a gens
then there must also be changes made to keep the quality of experience from
falling to a citizen with little experience. This would only put us back
where we where in the first place with inactive paters. The "second part"
would prevent this from taking place.

Hinc est mei oratio!

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Canada Orientalis Provincia
www.freehost.nu/members/canorien
--




Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: On a national census
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:20:18 -0400

Lucius Sicinius Drusus wrote:

> Salve,
>
> Most of the cost of international calls and Snail-mail can be avoided
> by working with the Propraetors who would assign a Scriba in each
> Provincia to handle the calls and snail-mail. This would also help
> solve any problems communicating with citizens who may not be as
> fluent in spoken English as they are in written English.

I see. Yes that seem like a good plan. What about provinces with no real
form of government? Who would manage the census for those citizens?


Hinc est mei oratio!

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Canada Orientalis Provincia
www.freehost.nu/members/canorien
--




Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/




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Subject:	[novaroma] Roman Days
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 20:24:11 -0500 (CDT)

Salvete,

The first pictures of Roman Days 2001, contributed by Lucius Equitius
Cincinnatus, are now on the site:

http://www.novaroma.org/gallery/rd2001.html

If anyone else has more photos of this event, please send them to me.

Vale, O.

---
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: On a national census
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 18:25:32 -0700

From: Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Reply-To: novaroma@--------
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:20:18 -0400
To: <novaroma@-------->
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Re: On a national census


Lucius Sicinius Drusus wrote:

> Salve,
>
> Most of the cost of international calls and Snail-mail can be avoided
> by working with the Propraetors who would assign a Scriba in each
> Provincia to handle the calls and snail-mail. This would also help
> solve any problems communicating with citizens who may not be as
> fluent in spoken English as they are in written English.

I see. Yes that seem like a good plan. What about provinces with no real
form of government? Who would manage the census for those citizens?


That would be where the elected magistrates who would assist the Censors
would come into play.

They would have power vested from the People who elected them.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] On Gens was (Changing the Constitution)
From:	QFabiusMax@--------
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:32:51 EDT

Salvete!

I have returned safely from Roman Days, though my bags were lost, when I
changed at midport put on another vessel, I'm assured however they find and
retrieve them. They better. I was carrying 100 sestercii from the Roman
treasury in them.
My report on Roman Days will follow shortly.

First on the Gens. Yes, we have right now a ahistorical model, according to
republic practices except who really knows how the Gens developed? The
oldest written sources are hazy, and what we doing makes perfect sense.
Perhaps much like Roma Antiqua. We are clumping members together who respect
a certain Gen's historical name, or the Paterfamilias, or its activity in
Nova Roma.
I wanted to freeze new gens growth last year, only allowing existing Gens to
accept members. In this way existing Gens would get larger which in turn
allow the splitting of the extended Gens into smaller ones.
For example there was a Fabius, Fabius Maximus, and Fabius Conctator Gens by
the end of the Republic. But to do that now, would further dilute the whole
process.
I like your concepts, I would hold off on them until NR has grown to 5000
civies.

People it is good to remember that we are just starting out here, and we have
the equivalent of early Rome, but it has been jump-started with a republic
and not a monarchy. The closest thing to a monarchy we have had so far was
the dictatorship of Flavius Vedius, except all of his actions taken while he
held office were revocable, not as monarch's would be.

Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus



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Subject:	[novaroma] Roman Days
From:	pjane@--------
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 01:34:14 -0000

Oh, what a delightful event! What Marcus Minucius Audens left out of
his account was his own presence, which enlivened the proceedings. He
is a compelling and entertaining announcer, highly skilled at getting
an audience involved in a historical presentation, and he displayed
this to great advantage during some of the military demonstrations.

It was a delight to meet both Quintus Fabius and Helena Galeria in
person, and to renew acquaintance with several other Novaromani and re-
enactors. I also enjoyed Aulus and Asellina's presentation of a Roman
tavern based on an actual woman-owned tavern in Pompeii.

I cannot fail to mention Merlynia Ambrosia and Fiona, who put on a
luxurious Roman feast in an improvised "triclinium" (we ladies ate
sitting up, as is proper). They did a great deal of work feeding the
Romans through the weekend, and sent me home with lots of wonderful
food ideas.

If it's at all possible from where you live, I encourage you to
consider attending next year, if only for the fun of watching Cassius
appear in military uniform! (He couldn't do it this year because his
lorica and sandals are still on order.)

Patricia Cassia





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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: On a national census
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:38:12 -0400

L. Cornelius Sulla Felix wrote:

> That would be where the elected magistrates who would assist the Censors
> would come into play.
>
> They would have power vested from the People who elected them.

Looks like you have this all worked out. It will be nice to see who is
"really" still in our nation from the results of the census. I wonder how
many are going to be deleted? I hope not too many, it would be a shame if we
are really only half has big as we thought we where.


Hinc est mei oratio!

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Canada Orientalis Provincia
www.freehost.nu/members/canorien
--




Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: For Concordia {Making Peace}
From:	Fortunatus <labienus@-------->
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:09:58 -0500

Salve Iulilla et Nerva et Draco et alii

> Umm... would this help? I had a small brainwave and just dummied up
> the following pages.
>
> http://julilla.tripod.com/concordia/

Not bad. My first attempt's at http://labienus.home.texas.net/templum/

It sorely needs some more graphics, though I'm not sure I want to use
the SPQR pictures (though they're quite nice). I'd like something a
little more unique. I'm thinking of a relatively informative splash
page with links to the guestbook/messageboard (anyone know of a good
source?), informative page(s) about Concordia's worship, and (of course)
Nova Roma. Any other ideas?

> I too am a Web developer when I am not I. on vacation or II. having
> more fun expermenting with a new "look" for NR.

Contact me privately about the shirts (are you the one who mentioned
having a contact in the shirt printing business, Iulilla?). Depending
on the price, my wife and I might be willing to finance a run of a
hundred or so of them, with the expectation being to sell them for
something close to cost.

> The images are from CyberSites's "S.P.Q.R. on-line Web mystery, sadly
> no longer available to enjoy on-line.

Eheu! I never did manage to get past the second part, mostly due to a
lack of time. A very pretty game, though.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus
--
"Ipsa scientia potestas est."
-Francis Bacon



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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: For Concordia {Making Peace}
From:	MffnQueen@--------
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 22:19:51 EDT

<< I'm thinking of a relatively informative splash
page with links to the guestbook/messageboard (anyone know of a good
source?),>>

I use bravenet.com for the guestbook and forum on my page.. They're free,
easy, and they have a ton of awesome features. Highly recommended!

<<Contact me privately about the shirts (are you the one who mentioned
having a contact in the shirt printing business, Iulilla?).>>

That would be me. :)

<<Depending
on the price, my wife and I might be willing to finance a run of a
hundred or so of them, with the expectation being to sell them for
something close to cost.>>

All I need is a design and an estimate of how many you'll want printed, and I
can probably get a price to you the next day.

Pax Vobiscum,
Julia Cassia Aurora
http://members.aol.com/MffnQueen



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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Shirt Project (was For Concordia)
From:	Fortunatus <labienus@-------->
Date:	Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:41:05 -0500

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Salve Iulia Cassia

Are you the same Iulia Cassia that Ursa and I met a while ago? If so,
are you still just an hour or two up the road from us?

> All I need is a design and an estimate of how many you'll want
> printed, and I can probably get a price to you the next day.

I was thinking of the very nice simple gold on red design that
someone came up with (was *that* Iuliiia? I'm going senile...).
What would a run of 100 cost, in an assortment of sizes, mostly M-XL?

Vale
T Labienus Fortunatus
- --
"Ipsa scientia potestas est."
-Francis Bacon

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] ATTN (Religio Romana): ante diem III Idus Iunias (June 11th)
From:	CmndrZil@--------
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 00:55:14 EDT

In a message dated 6/11/01 10:24:49 AM, amg@-------- writes:

>This is one of the dies nefasti (N), a day on which no legal action can
>take
>place.

I love these little things about what day it is. I can't begin to describe
the joy I feel seeing one in my email box and knowing that soon I will learn
something new, if I can just get through all the other messages.

I keep wondering though, a lot of legal action isn't taking place here. It
seems rather ineffiecent to me. So, what's the deal? When do they legally
act?

Tarquinia E.



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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Shirt Project (was For Concordia)
From:	"Julilla Sempronia Magna" <julilla@-------->
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 05:17:32 -0000

>
> I was thinking of the very nice simple gold on red design that
> someone came up with (was *that* Iuliiia? I'm going senile...).


LOL yes, Fortunatus, that was me. Join the crowd of the gracefully
aging!

---
cura et valeas,

@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| http://julilla.tripod.com/
Daily Life in Ancient Rome
@____@ julilla@--------
||||





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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: M/Paterfamilias Accountability
From:	"Gaius Marcius Coriolanus" <coriolanus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 05:25:18 -0000

Salve Domna Claudia

I humbly apologize, but I did not watched whole m/paterfamilias
thread but you've said that paterfamilias has som advantage in
election. I don't know nothing about although I'm paterfamilias too.
Can you or anyone else tell more?

( I have never read whole constitution, I know I should to do it but
English in constitution is much more diferent from English here in
list and it is hard for me to read it)

Ave et Vale

Gaius Marcius Coriolanus




--- In novaroma@--------, "Domna Claudia Auspicata" <comptess@i...> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Salvete Quirites.
>
> I have been following the proposals of gen-restructure with
interest.
> I am particularly interested in the proposal put forward by Amulius
> Claudius Petrus regarding a minimum period of citizenship before one
> can 'become' a M/Paterfamilias. He writes:
>
> "Opening a New Gens
>
> For a citizen to open a new gens he/she must have VI months of
active
> service. The citizen¹s current gens pater/materfamilias is to decide
> if the
> citizen has been responsible and active enough to handle the
> responsibility."
>
> My particular interest in this may be understood if one reads the
> following excerpt from the Lex Vedia de Ratione Comitiorum Populi
> Tributorum:
> "V.A.3
> Should a tie occur within a given tribe, the winner shall be the
> candidate who is a paterfamilias or materfamilias, or if such shall
> not decide the issue, the winner shall be decided by lot. The
> rogatores may decide how such decisions by lot shall be made in a
> fair manner."
>
> This part of the lex has bothered me because there need be no real
> distinction between a M/Paterfamilias candidate and any other
> candidate. At present a new citizen can easily join as a
> M/Paterfamilias, pay taxes even and have an unfair advantage in an
> election over another candidate for no other reason than
they 'chose'
> to start a new gens. I am not assuming a M/Paterfamilias is less
> active in the interests of NR, I am pointing out that many citizens
> who are not 'head' of a family are doing just as much. And so I
> fully support any measures that would more likely ensure that a
> M/Paterfamilias has 'earnt' their election advantage. A six month
> period may suffice, although I believed there was already a six
month
> period before any citizen could run for office anyway? Perhaps a
> longer waiting period before one could start a new gens? Perhaps
the
> lex should be altered? I am unsure how to 'fix' this if indeed
anyone
> else believes it requires 'fixing'.
>
>
> Valete bene
> Domna Claudia Auspicata
>
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<http://www.pgp.com>
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> axuepE2kiwxi+chdBqZXgiyW
> =dLHV
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] ATTN (Religio Romana): ante diem III Idus Iunias (June 11th)
From:	"Raina Faolan" <GuruPoet@-------->
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 02:59:29 -0400

>From: CmndrZil@--------
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: novaroma@--------
>Subject: Re: [novaroma] ATTN (Religio Romana): ante diem III Idus Iunias
>(June 11th)
>Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 00:55:14 EDT
>
>
>In a message dated 6/11/01 10:24:49 AM, amg@-------- writes:
>
> >This is one of the dies nefasti (N), a day on which no legal action can
> >take
> >place.
>
>I love these little things about what day it is. I can't begin to describe
>the joy I feel seeing one in my email box and knowing that soon I will
>learn
>something new, if I can just get through all the other messages.
>
>I keep wondering though, a lot of legal action isn't taking place here. It
>seems rather ineffiecent to me. So, what's the deal? When do they legally
>act?
>
>Tarquinia E.

Aeternia: You like them too? I find them really nifty explaining which moth
belonged to a deity, but that's just me. I'm assuming legal action takes
place after the non-legal action days are over. Or a magistrate could answer
your question as well, hope this enlightens some.

Vale,
Aeternia



_________________________________________________________________
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Subject:	[novaroma] IM database
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@-------->
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 01:30:44 -0700

Ave,

I just wanted to remind everyone that the Instant Message Database is
available for the use of all citizens. If you notice that your
information is not listed on the database please email me your
information and I will get the list updated!

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix



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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Salvete, Omnes
From:	"yquere@--------"<yquere@-------->
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:42:45 +0200

Salve filia mea

I welcome you again within NR, and wish to have the
opportunity to meet you soon in Provincia Gallia.
I hope you will have the opportunity to pratice your
latin skills.


Bene vale
I.Querius Armoricus Lutecio

> ---------- Initial message -----------
>
> From : mme753bc@--------
> To : novaroma@--------
> Cc :
> Date : Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:50:56 -0000
> Subject : [novaroma] Salvete, Omnes
>
> Nomen mihi est Caecilia Queria Fortunata; nova civis
sum.
>
> My "pater", Ianus Querius Armoricus Lutecio, suggested
that I
> introduce myself to the membership of Nova Roma. I
appreciate his
> (and Nova Roma's) welcoming me into the society. While
I am an
> American, I chose to affiliate with a gens listed as
being located in
> the Provincia Gallia, because I am a teacher of both
Latin and
> French, and I appreciate any opportunity to practice
both languages.
> I first discovered Nova Roma as part of a conference
for Latin
> teachers last summer, and while my time during the
school year is
> limited, I am looking forward to having more time to
devote to
> messages and e-mails now that our academic year is
ended. I am
> married and the mother of 2 teenage sons. I like to
read, travel,
> and prepare and eat French cuisine! My civic interest
currently is
> heading our city's Sister-City committee to plan
exchanges between
> our city and a city in East France. Bonam fortunam
omnibus!
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

--------------
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50 h / 95 F TTC par mois tout compris pendant 3 mois
http://register.libertysurf.fr/subscribe_fr/signup.php3





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Subject:	[novaroma] An appeal to the Citizens of Nova Roma
From:	pjane@--------
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:05:38 -0000

Salvete!

I have made this appeal before, but I think it may have gotten lost in
the currents of the day, and I would like to give it one more chance.

Nova Roma is a non-profit organization, and one of its goals is
charitable work toward such goals as Roman-related scholarship,
research and education, as well as the preservation of Roman sites.

In fulfillment of this goal, and because it needs doing, we are
collecting donations to support the Roman site at Vindolanda in
northern Britain. This site has produced excellent archaeological
evidence of everything from Roman writing to military supply systems to
clothing and shoes.

Unlike many Roman sites in Britain, Vindolanda is administered by a
private trust rather than the government, and has been hard-hit by the
foot-and-mouth epidemic which has dramatically reduced the tourist
traffic which helps fund the site.

Please visit http://www.novaroma.org/aerarium_saturni/vindolanda/ and
consider donating to help this cause. All donations received by July 1,
including the collection we took up at Roman Days, will go to the
Vindolanda Trust to support their work.

Marcus Octavius Germanicus has kindly placed a link to this page on the
Nova Roma home page so that you needn't save this message!

Please e-mail me at pcassia@-------- if you have any questions
about this effort.

Patricia Cassia, Quaestor





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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Roman Days
From:	ksterne@--------
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:34:39 -0000

Salvete,

Great pictures of Roman Days! Terrific outfits all; I'm very
impressed.

Multus gratia to Marcus Octavius et Lucius Equitius (excuse what is
probably horrible Latin).

Valete,
Gaius Popillius Laenas




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Subject:	[novaroma] Religious Days vs. Business Days, etc.
From:	ksterne@--------
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:45:00 -0000

Salvete Tarquinia et Aeternia,

There is a Roman Calendar at:

http://www.clubs.psu.edu/aegsa/rome/romecal.html

It provides the information about which days are for what. Very
informative.

Valete,
Gaius Popillius Laenas




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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: On a national census
From:	ksterne@--------
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:52:47 -0000

Salvete,

Although a national census would be a lot of work, I beleive it is a
worthwile venture.

I must agree with Lucius Sicinius when he lists reasons why a census
is desirable:

>>The first is Historical accuracy. A Census was considered one of the
most important tasks that the Censores of Antiquita were called on to
perform.

The Second is a desire that the Album be correct, not just for the
sake of tiddiness, but to make it easier to plan for the future. IMHO
many of the "inactive" citizens are in fact people who have left Nova
Roma without bothering to resign. A Census would allow us to identify
these people who no longer desire to be a part of Nova Roma.

The Third is I consider this a way of solving the inactive Pater
problem. I think that many of the inactive Paters are also people who
no longer desire to be a part of Nova Roma.

The Forth is a desire to insure that our records are accurate. The
multiple attempts at contacting citizens will allow the Censores to
update the information on on those who do desire to retain thier
citizenship.<<

Another reason that has been mentioned is the freeing up of gens of
historical significance that are current led by inactive cives. I
support the idea of a census.

Valete,
Gaius Popillius Laenas




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: On a national census
From:	patrickius@--------
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:31:11 EDT

I completely agree with everything just stated. But, knowing that it would
be a lot of work and also knowing that inactive matres and patresfamiliae
(probably) cause the most problems, I think it would be more sensible to hold
a census for all matres and patresfamiliae. Of course, this would still be a
lot of work, since most gens are made of one person (my own included) but it
would be helpful.

Patricius Vitruvius Iulianus,

Civis Novae Romae.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Re: On a national census
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:47:51 -0400

Salve

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus [mailto:lsicinius@--------]
> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 6:35 PM
>
> I have several reasons for desiring a Census,
>
> The first is Historical accuracy. A Census was considered one of the
> most important tasks that the Censores of Antiquita were called on to
> perform.

Well, to expand on that basis, we should only have a Census once every five
years (and of course only have Censors for 18 months every 5 years), and
people should not be enrolled in the album civium, nor allowed to vote, who
aren't included. I think you'll agree that it is not currently in our best
interests to deny everyone who joins in the next three-and-a-half years the
opportunity to vote. The idea for an annual census with full-time censors is
no more historical than our current system.

> The Second is a desire that the Album be correct, not just for the
> sake of tiddiness, but to make it easier to plan for the future. IMHO
> many of the "inactive" citizens are in fact people who have left Nova
> Roma without bothering to resign. A Census would allow us to identify
> these people who no longer desire to be a part of Nova Roma.

This is, necessarily, speculation on your part. By definition these inactive
people are incommunicado. How can we think to divine their motives? You are
probably correct in your guess, but it is only that-- a guess. It is
possible that someone would still want to be "part" of Nova Roma without
necessarily wanting to be active. Indeed, I myself encountered several such
people myself during the Dictatorship, when I attempted to cull out some
inactive cives (this direct experience on my part does form much of the
basis of my resistence to the idea of throwing out people who don't want to
communicate).

> The Third is I consider this a way of solving the inactive Pater
> problem. I think that many of the inactive Paters are also people who
> no longer desire to be a part of Nova Roma.

The problem of inactive patresfamilia is, to my mind, a separate one from
the problem of inactive cives. It can, and should, have a simpler solution
than polling the entire nation. Indeed, the simple expedient of requiring
their participation in voting and/or taxpaying would solve the problem, as
would the institution of a surtax on the position. Payment of a token fee
would be proof positive of one's desire to lead a gens (or family).

By the way, as an aside, I do like the idea of requiring 6 months'
Citizenship for patresfamilia, as long as along with it is the explicit
mention that one can leave a gens voluntarily at any time. Such a policy
would, of course, eliminate the creation of new gentes by new cives, but I
think something to accomodate new gens creation must be in place.

> The Forth is a desire to insure that our records are accurate. The
> multiple attempts at contacting citizens will allow the Censores to
> update the information on on those who do desire to retain thier
> citizenship.

I disagree with the implication that a failure to provide a forwarding
address is grounds for expulsion. It simply seems too drastic a penalty for
what is, essentially, an administrative omission. If they want to be active,
they will come to us. If they don't want to be active, we are not harmed by
having their name in the album civium. (Although I agree about not wanting
inactive patresfamilia, magistrates, and priests; but as I indicated, I
believe that is a different problem than general inactivity.)

In short, lack of communication shouldn't be a capital offense.

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org




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Subject:	[novaroma] ATTN: Posture and gesture in Roman prayer - new Web page at the NR site
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <amg@-------->
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 17:16:48 +0100

Salvete omnes

As promised, I've added a page that presents a brief introduction on Roman
posture and gesture during prayer. This is the result of recent research
I've been performing. You can access the page directly at:
http://www.novaroma.org/religio_romana/posture.html

Otherwise you can follow the link at:
http://www.novaroma.org/religio_romana/rites_and_rituals.html


Dii vos ament

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex




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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Religious Days vs. Business Days, etc.
From:	amg@--------
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:55:54 -0000

Salvete Gai Popillius Laenas et al

I advise that while this calendar presents a general feeling of the
daily Religio Romana, it has many inconsistencies, errors and
anachronisms. Even in its current form, the calendar at the NR site
is more reliable.

Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex


--- In novaroma@--------, ksterne@b... wrote:
> Salvete Tarquinia et Aeternia,
>
> There is a Roman Calendar at:
>
> http://www.clubs.psu.edu/aegsa/rome/romecal.html
>
> It provides the information about which days are for what. Very
> informative.
>
> Valete,
> Gaius Popillius Laenas




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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Religious Days vs. Business Days, etc.
From:	ksterne@--------
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 17:27:43 -0000

> I advise that while this calendar presents a general feeling of the
> daily Religio Romana, it has many inconsistencies, errors and
> anachronisms. Even in its current form, the calendar at the NR site
> is more reliable.
>
> Valete
> Antonius Gryllus Graecus
> Pontifex
>
Salve Antoni Grylle,

Thank you (multus gratia???)Pontifex. I had no idea the calendar I
linked was inaccurate.

Vale,
Gaius Popillius Laenas




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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: ATTN (Religio Romana): ante diem III Idus Iunias (June 11th)
From:	amg@--------
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 17:28:07 -0000

Salvete

The days when legal action was allowed were:
- dies fasti (F)
- dies comitiales (C)
- Afternoon of dies intercisi (EN)
- After the Rex had spoken on dies QRCF (Quando Rex Comitiavit Fas)
- After the rubish was swept from the temple of Vesta on the dies
QSDF (Quando Stercum Delatum Fas).

The days when legal action was not allowed were:
- dies nefasti (N)
- dies nefasti publici (NP)
- Morning of dies intercisi (EN)
- Before the Rex had spoken on dies QRCF (Quando Rex Comitiavit Fas)
- Before the rubish was swept from the temple of Vesta on the dies
QSDF (Quando Stercum Delatum Fas).

The lack of dies fasti in the religious postings is due to the fact
that most festivals took place on dies nefasti (N) or nefasti publici
(NP).

Hope this helps.

Valete
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex



--- In novaroma@--------, "Raina Faolan" <GuruPoet@h...> wrote:
>
>
>
> >From: CmndrZil@--------
> >Repl--------: novaroma@--------
> >To: novaroma@--------
> >Subject: Re: [novaroma] ATTN (Religio Romana): ante diem III Idus
Iunias
> >(June 11th)
> >Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 00:55:14 EDT
> >
> >
> >In a message dated 6/11/01 10:24:49 AM, amg@-------- writes:
> >
> > >This is one of the dies nefasti (N), a day on which no legal
action can
> > >take
> > >place.
> >
> >I love these little things about what day it is. I can't begin to
describe
> >the joy I feel seeing one in my email box and knowing that soon I
will
> >learn
> >something new, if I can just get through all the other messages.
> >
> >I keep wondering though, a lot of legal action isn't taking place
here. It
> >seems rather ineffiecent to me. So, what's the deal? When do
they legally
> >act?
> >
> >Tarquinia E.
>
> Aeternia: You like them too? I find them really nifty explaining
which moth
> belonged to a deity, but that's just me. I'm assuming legal action
takes
> place after the non-legal action days are over. Or a magistrate
could answer
> your question as well, hope this enlightens some.
>
> Vale,
> Aeternia
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com




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Subject:	[novaroma] Citizenship Certificate
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:32:12 -0400

I was looking back through the message history the other day and noticed a
message posted by citizen Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato. In this message
Cato explained that we should develop a physical document that citizens
could hold to identify themselves with Nova Roma.

I thought this was a great idea and started to experiment with different
designs. If you would like to see my design of a citizenship certificate
just direct your browser to:

http://www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/cc.gif

If there is a lot of support for this idea of citizenship documents I would
be happy to discuss it further as a possible addition to the Macellum. I
would love to volunteer to run this project and donate all the funds to Nova
Roma.


Hinc est mei oratio!

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Canada Orientalis Provincia
www.freehost.nu/members/canorien
--




Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Inactive citizens.
From:	Pwyancey@--------
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:10:36 EDT

Greetings, I agree with the others that have responded concerning "active" citizenship. I personally have no interest regarding politics, I find the political discussions to be incredibly boring and, frequently pointless.I do however really enjoy reading the Religio items, as well as other mailings related to cultural matters. Those who wish to play at running the Republic certainly have the right to do so, just don't throw out those citizens with other things on their minds, Sincerely, T. Calpurnius Pictor



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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Citizenship Certificate
From:	"Julilla Sempronia Magna" <julilla@-------->
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 20:24:03 -0000

Amulius Claudius Petrus, what a handsome design! Any civus would be
proud to display such a certificate, I am sure.

---
cura et valeas,

@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| http://julilla.tripod.com/
Daily Life in Ancient Rome
@____@ ju--------a@--------





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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Citizenship Certificate
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:45:09 -0700 (PDT)

Salve, A. Claudi Petre.

This is an outstanding idea. I also like very much your proposed
design. I hope our magistrates do take account of your proposal in its
right value.




=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Citizenship Certificate
From:	"Nick R. Ramos Jr." <nramos@-------->
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 20:55:44 -0000

Salvete, omnesque Amulio Claudio Petri!

Very well executed design, amici mei. One suggestion though - I think
it would be nice to repeat the inscription in Latin. Perhaps some of
our cives that speak other languages such as Spanish, French, etc.
could supply translations, and we could do these certificates in the
language of choice of the citizen and Latin (as Lingua franca,
nonne?). Your design is certainly something I would like to hang in
the ol' Atrium...

Marius Cornelius Scipio
Aedilis Curulis


>
>
>
>
> Gens Claudia Website:
> www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/




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Subject:	[novaroma] Q Fabius Maximus screen name change
From:	"Stephen F. Phenow" <QFabiusMaxmi@-------->
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 20:56:49 -0000

Salvete!
Since AOL determined that QFabiusMax@-------- is somehow obscene
I have been forced to make a change.
My new address is QFabiusMaxmi@-------- All my friends and
colleagues, magistrates, et al, please make a note of it. All list
moderators please change my settings accordingly.
Since I cannot get into the old screen name, I lost all those posts.
If I do not reply to post sent to me that is the reason why. I am
most sorry for the inconvenience
Who knows why AOL does what it does?
Valete!
Q. Fabius Maximus.




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Subject:	[novaroma] A different point of View (was On a national census)
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:11:09 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete omnes.

I have been following the latest discussions about the census issue,
and I have to say that I agree with Consul Germanicus in that the
census by itself does not provide enough reasons to apply the hardest
possible punishment we can infringe.

However, I would like to offer a different point of view. If, instead
of a simple census, we held a census to verify the information
contained in our cives' applications for citizenship, we would be
solving two problems at once; we would make sure that the information
in our records is correct, thus avoiding affairs like the one that we
presenced not long ago, and we would be tidying up our Album Civium,
for surely we can not keep citizens on our lists without making sure if
they are real persons or just faked up names.




=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] On joining gentes
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:14:03 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete omnes; et salve, Consul Germanice.

--- Flavius Vedius Germanicus <germanicus@--------> wrote:

<<snipped>>

> 1) "Closed": The gens is not accepting new members at all.
> 2) "Semi-Open": The gens is accepting new members with the prior
> approval
> of the paterfamilias. (This is how joining gentes currently works.)
> 3) "Open": The gens is accepting new members sight-unseen.

I think this is a good idea. May I suggest that gentes from
non-responding patresfamilias should be "open" instead of "closed"? In
this way, we would be able to dinamize those "quiet" gentes.


=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Q Fabius Maximus screen name change
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:41:27 -0500 (CDT)

Salve Quinte Fabi,

> Since AOL determined that QFabiusMax@-------- is somehow obscene
> I have been forced to make a change.

This sort of stupidity is to be expected from them.

Please, switch to an ISP managed by sane people. AOL will continue to
grow in their arrogance and incompetence as long as people keep giving
them money.

Vale, Octavius.

--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Citizenship Certificate
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:42:56 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete omnes; et salve, M. Corneli Scipio.

--- "Nick R. Ramos Jr." <nramos@--------> wrote:

<<snipped>>

> Perhaps some of
> our cives that speak other languages such as Spanish, French, etc.
> could supply translations...

The translation to Spanish follows:

"Sirva esto para certificar que:
AMULIUS CLAUDIUS PETRUS
es un ciudadano de Nova Roma de buena reputación y posee todos los
derechos y privilegios que por ello son pertinentes.
Se compromete a obedecer las leyes y ética de la sociedad romana y a
servir a la República al máximo de sus posibilidades. También a seguir
las virtudes romanas día a día, intentando establecer equidad, armonía
y cortesía entre nuestros conciudadanos.

Presentado el 11 de Junio del MMDCCLIV auc".

I would like to suggest to represent the date according to Roman
tradition; that is, "a.d. III Idus Iunias" instead of "June the 11th".


=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Citizenship Certificate
From:	=?iso-8859-1?B?WWFubiBRdely6Q==?= <yquere@-------->
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 23:56:32 +0200

Salvete

I can translate the document in French and I suppose Sextus Apollonius Draco
is able to translate it in Dutsh ?
Let me know if you need my help for any translation.

Ianus Querius Armoricus Lutecio

----- Original Message -----
From: Nick R. Ramos Jr. <nramos@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 10:55 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Citizenship Certificate


> Salvete, omnesque Amulio Claudio Petri!
>
> Very well executed design, amici mei. One suggestion though - I think
> it would be nice to repeat the inscription in Latin. Perhaps some of
> our cives that speak other languages such as Spanish, French, etc.
> could supply translations, and we could do these certificates in the
> language of choice of the citizen and Latin (as Lingua franca,
> nonne?). Your design is certainly something I would like to hang in
> the ol' Atrium...
>
> Marius Cornelius Scipio
> Aedilis Curulis
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Gens Claudia Website:
> > www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Citizenship Certificate
From:	=?iso-8859-1?B?WWFubiBRdely6Q==?= <yquere@-------->
Date:	Wed, 13 Jun 2001 00:16:17 +0200

Salve Amulio Claudio Petro

Doesn't take long, Here is the traduction in French if needed :
I voluntary cancelled the french "accent" problem by writing in caps. I Hope
it will be readable.

" LE PRESENT DOCUMENT CERTIFIE QUE

XXXXXXXX

EST CITOYEN A PART ENTIERE DE NOVA ROMA ET QU' IL RECOIT DE CE FAIT
TOUS LES DROITS ET PRIVILEGES ASSOCIES A SA CITOYENNETE.
IL S' ENGAGE PAR LA MEME A RESPECTER LES LOIS ET USAGES DE LA SOCIETE
ROMAINE ET A SERVIR LA REPUBLIQUE DE SON MIEUX.
IL OBSERVERA LE RESPECT DES VALEURS ROMAINES AU QUOTIDIEN EN TENTANT DE
MAINTENIR EQUITE, HARMONIE ET COURTOISIE ENTRE NOS CITOYENS

ETABLI LE
III IDVS IVNIAS MMDCCLIV AVC

Valete optime, and thanks for this wonderful idea, I hope it will be adopted
by our magistrates.
Maxima Fortuna Deorum tibi

Ianus Querius Armoricus Lutecio


----- Original Message -----
From: Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 9:32 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Citizenship Certificate


> I was looking back through the message history the other day and noticed a
> message posted by citizen Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato. In this message
> Cato explained that we should develop a physical document that citizens
> could hold to identify themselves with Nova Roma.
>
> I thought this was a great idea and started to experiment with different
> designs. If you would like to see my design of a citizenship certificate
> just direct your browser to:
>
> http://www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/cc.gif
>
> If there is a lot of support for this idea of citizenship documents I
would
> be happy to discuss it further as a possible addition to the Macellum. I
> would love to volunteer to run this project and donate all the funds to
Nova
> Roma.
>
>
> Hinc est mei oratio!
>
> --
> Amulius Claudius Petrus
> Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
> Canada Orientalis Provincia
> www.freehost.nu/members/canorien
> --
>
>
>
>
> Gens Claudia Website:
> www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Q Fabius Maximus screen name change
From:	Kristoffer From <from@-------->
Date:	Wed, 13 Jun 2001 00:35:06 +0200

Marcus Octavius Germanicus wrote:
> Please, switch to an ISP managed by sane people. AOL will continue to
> grow in their arrogance and incompetence as long as people keep giving
> them money.

I second that opinion. Free youself from their opression, or Steve Case
and his ilk will devour your souls.

On second thought, why settle for the lesser of two evils?

Titus Octavius Pius,
Consiliarius Thules,
Praeco Anarei Thules,
Scriba to the Curator Araneum

AKA Kristoffer From

---

Si hoc signum legere potes,
operis boni in rebus latinis alacribus
et fructuosis potiri potes.

- Not-so-famous quotation

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCS d- s:++> a-- C++>$ ULS++ P+ L++ E- W++(--) N
o-- K- w--- !O M-- V-- PS->$ PE- Y+ PGP- t+@ 5- X-
R+++>$ !tv- b+++>$ DI++++ D+ G e h! !r-->r+++ !x-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------



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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Q Fabius Maximus screen name change
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:42:05 -0700

Ave,

Yeah, come to Earthlink. :) We will be happy for more business since AOL
increased their prices.

Sulla

From: Kristoffer From <from@-------->
Reply-To: novaroma@--------
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 00:35:06 +0200
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Q Fabius Maximus screen name change


Marcus Octavius Germanicus wrote:
> Please, switch to an ISP managed by sane people. AOL will continue to
> grow in their arrogance and incompetence as long as people keep giving
> them money.

I second that opinion. Free youself from their opression, or Steve Case
and his ilk will devour your souls.

On second thought, why settle for the lesser of two evils?

Titus Octavius Pius,
Consiliarius Thules,
Praeco Anarei Thules,
Scriba to the Curator Araneum

AKA Kristoffer From

---

Si hoc signum legere potes,
operis boni in rebus latinis alacribus
et fructuosis potiri potes.

- Not-so-famous quotation

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCS d- s:++> a-- C++>$ ULS++ P+ L++ E- W++(--) N
o-- K- w--- !O M-- V-- PS->$ PE- Y+ PGP- t+@ 5- X-
R+++>$ !tv- b+++>$ DI++++ D+ G e h! !r-->r+++ !x-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Citizenship Certificate
From:	"Nick R. Ramos Jr." <nramos@-------->
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 23:07:08 -0000

Gratias Multas Tibi Ago, mi Astur...

Te me adelantaste en suplir la traduccion, empero, que se le va a
hacer - estos asturianos impacientes...

(You got ahead of me in supplying a Spanish translation, but what can
we do - these impatient asturians...)

:-) :-) :-)

I like your suggestion on using the Roman calendrical convention.

Optime vale, et Iuppiter nos protegas!
Marius Cornelius Scipio

--- In novaroma@--------, Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> wrote:
> Salvete omnes; et salve, M. Corneli Scipio.
>
> --- "Nick R. Ramo--------." <nramo--------..> wrote:
>
> <<snipped>>
>
> > Perhaps some of
> > our cives that speak other languages such as Spanish, French, etc.
> > could supply translations...
>
> The translation to Spanish follows:
<SNIP!>





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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Citizenship Certificate
From:	"Nick R. Ramos Jr." <nramos@-------->
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 23:13:01 -0000

Salve, Ianni Quere! <I hope I got that right, since my Latin still
needs a lot of work...>

Gratias Multas tibi ago. I think we should submit the translations to
the honorable Amulius Claudius Petrus, for his incorporation into his
design. This idea definitely is a good one, and I would like to ask
our esteemed Consules to take the matter before the Senate, since I
think that a Senatus Consulta could decide this matter in an expedient
manner - and this would be a good thing to have in place by the Summer
Solstice (a special day for me :-)).

Vale bene,

Marius Cornelius Scipio

--- In novaroma@--------, Yann Quéré <--------re@l...> wrote:
> Salvete
>
> I can translate the document in French and I suppose Sextus
Apollonius Draco
> is able to translate it in Dutsh ?
> Let me know if you need my help for any translation.
>
> Ianus Querius Armoricus Lutecio
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Nick R. Ramo--------. <nramo--------..>
> To: <novaroma@-------->
> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 10:55 PM
> Subject: [novaroma] Re: Citizenship Certificate
>
>
> > Salvete, omnesque Amulio Claudio Petri!
> >
> > Very well executed design, amici mei. One suggestion though - I
think
> > it would be nice to repeat the inscription in Latin. Perhaps some
of
> > our cives that speak other languages such as Spanish, French, etc.
> > could supply translations, and we could do these certificates in
the
> > language of choice of the citizen and Latin (as Lingua franca,
> > nonne?). Your design is certainly something I would like to hang
in
> > the ol' Atrium...
> >
> > Marius Cornelius Scipio
> > Aedilis Curulis
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Gens Claudia Website:
> > > www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Citizenship Certificate
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 17:29:51 -0400

I am quite pleased to see a potential of success of my citizenship
certificate design. I am going to take Marius Cornelius Scipio suggestion of
offering the certificate in different languages. If you know a language
other then English could you please translate the words below, I need all
the help I can get to make this project a success.

---Start Translation---

This certifies that

(NAME ENTERED HERE)

is a citizen of Nova Roma in good standing and is granted all the rights and
privileges pertaining thereto. He will abide to the laws and ethics of Roman
society and will serve the republic to the best of his ability. He will
fallow the Roman virtues daily in attempt to establish equality harmony and
civility among our fellow citizens.

Presented on (DAY ENTERED HERE) day of (MONTH ENTERED HERE)

---End Translation---

Hinc est mei oratio!

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Canada Orientalis Provincia
www.freehost.nu/members/canorien
--




Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/




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