Forum Romanum


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Citizenship Certificate
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:49:20 -0700 (PDT)

Salve, M. Corneli Scipio.

--- "Nick R. Ramos Jr." <nramos@--------> wrote:
> Gratias Multas Tibi Ago, mi Astur...
>
> Te me adelantaste en suplir la traduccion, empero, que se le va a
> hacer - estos asturianos impacientes...
>
> (You got ahead of me in supplying a Spanish translation, but what can
>
> we do - these impatient asturians...)
>
> :-) :-) :-)
>

Be quick or be dead ;-).

> I like your suggestion on using the Roman calendrical convention.

Thank you. I really think it would add a little bit of glamour.

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Citizenship Certificate
From:	gkbagne@--------
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 23:53:46 -0000

To All From Lepella, Salve!

I believe that a certificate of citizenship was called a diploma,
at least in the legions, and were printed on lead. I think a diploma
done on metallic foil would be both handsome and mailable. Does
anyone on the military side have any idea how a diploma was phrased?

Be Well! (imperative case)

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Citizenship Certificate
From:	octavianuslucius@--------
Date:	Wed, 13 Jun 2001 00:06:05 -0000

Salve Amuli Claudi Petre.
Excellent idea and extremely beautiful design. I fully support it.
Vale bene
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus

--- In novaroma@--------, Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@b...> wrote:
> I was looking back through the message history the other day and
noticed a
> message posted by citizen Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato. In this
message
> Cato explained that we should develop a physical document that
citizens
> could hold to identify themselves with Nova Roma.
>
> I thought this was a great idea and started to experiment with
different
> designs. If you would like to see my design of a citizenship
certificate
> just direct your browser to:
>
> http://www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/cc.gif
>
> If there is a lot of support for this idea of citizenship documents
I would
> be happy to discuss it further as a possible addition to the
Macellum. I
> would love to volunteer to run this project and donate all the
funds to Nova
> Roma.
>
>
> Hinc est mei oratio!
>
> --
> Amulius Claudius Petrus
> Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
> Canada Orientalis Provincia
> www.freehost.nu/members/canorien
> --
>
>
>
>
> Gens Claudia Website:
> www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Citizenship Certificate
From:	octavianuslucius@--------
Date:	Wed, 13 Jun 2001 00:24:40 -0000

Salve Amuli Claudi Petre
Excellent idea and the design is really perfect. I fully support it.
Bene vale
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Citizenship Certificate
From:	"L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 17:41:53 -0700

Ave,

I know they had a diploma like that at the J. Paul Getty Museum...in Santa
Monica, CA. But, it is under remodelling now...but should open up later
this year.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

From: gkbagne@--------
Reply-To: novaroma@--------
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 23:53:46 -0000
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Citizenship Certificate

To All From Lepella, Salve!

I believe that a certificate of citizenship was called a diploma,
at least in the legions, and were printed on lead. I think a diploma
done on metallic foil would be both handsome and mailable. Does
anyone on the military side have any idea how a diploma was phrased?

Be Well! (imperative case)


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Citizenship Certificate
From:	bsmith3121@--------
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 20:52:52 EDT

Salve,

As a new citizen of Nova Roma (I just got word from the censores today) I think the idea of a citizen document is a great one. I really liked the design.

Caius Titinius Varus

In a message dated Tue, 12 Jun 2001 3:43:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@--------> writes:

<< I was looking back through the message history the other day and noticed a
message posted by citizen Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato. In this message
Cato explained that we should develop a physical document that citizens
could hold to identify themselves with Nova Roma.

I thought this was a great idea and started to experiment with different
designs. If you would like to see my design of a citizenship certificate
just direct your browser to:

http://www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/cc.gif

If there is a lot of support for this idea of citizenship documents I would
be happy to discuss it further as a possible addition to the Macellum. I
would love to volunteer to run this project and donate all the funds to Nova
Roma.

Hinc est mei oratio!

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Canada Orientalis Provincia
www.freehost.nu/members/canorien
--

Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/

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>>

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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Citizenship Certificate
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 21:29:55 -0400

Salvete

I agree; the idea of a citizenship certificate is one I've been humping off
and on for a while. Indeed; why just have a certificate? I was thinking a
whole "Citizenship Kit" could be made available; a suitable-for-framing
certificate, a couple of coins, some flyers (to get the word out in your
local area), and perhaps a booklet made up of articles from the website as
an "Introduction to Nova Roma" (kinda like we had back in 1998). Heck, stick
a t-shirt in there, too! Charge a minimal fee to cover costs, and make the
thing voluntary (you don't have to buy the kit to be a Citizen, but it sure
is nice!)

I would, however, make the certificate in Latin only. Maybe include a
translation on a separate sheet for information purposes. And the text does
seem a tad wordy, and has a lot of implications that Citizenship doesn't
necessarily carry with it; honoring the Virtues, etc. Perhaps stripping it
down to the bare essentials, such as:

"This is to certify that Flavius Vedius Germanicus is a Citizen in good
standing of the Republic of Nova Roma, with all the privileges, duties,
honors, and obligations attendent thereto. Witnessed before the Gods of Rome
on this ___ day of ___, ____." With the signatures of both Censors.

I think this is a great idea (again) and I wholeheartedly support it. Now,
someone want to _do_ it? Perhaps our Censores could make a special scribal
appointment to spearhead the project... I think the Senate could be
pursuaded to release some funds from the treasury to offset some of the
up-front costs of such a thing, were someone to approach us with a suitable
and practical plan.

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
ICQ: 106199729
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org

> -----Original Message-----
> From: bsmith3121@-------- [mailto:bsmith3121@--------]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 8:53 PM
> To: novaroma@--------
> Subject: Re: [novaroma] Citizenship Certificate
>
>
> Salve,
>
> As a new citizen of Nova Roma (I just got word from the censores
> today) I think the idea of a citizen document is a great one. I
> really liked the design.
>
> Caius Titinius Varus
>
> In a message dated Tue, 12 Jun 2001 3:43:41 PM Eastern Daylight
> Time, Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@--------> writes:
>
> < and noticed a
> message posted by citizen Appius Tullius Marcellus Cato. In this message
> Cato explained that we should develop a physical document that citizens
> could hold to identify themselves with Nova Roma.
>
> I thought this was a great idea and started to experiment with different
> designs. If you would like to see my design of a citizenship certificate
> just direct your browser to:
>
> http://www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/cc.gif
>
> If there is a lot of support for this idea of citizenship
> documents I would
> be happy to discuss it further as a possible addition to the Macellum. I
> would love to volunteer to run this project and donate all the
> funds to Nova
> Roma.
>
>
> Hinc est mei oratio!
>
> --
> Amulius Claudius Petrus
> Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
> Canada Orientalis Provincia
> www.freehost.nu/members/canorien
> --
>
>
>
>
> Gens Claudia Website:
> www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> >>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

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Subject:	[novaroma] Legate for Regio Maine--Provincia Nova Britannia
From:	jmath669642reng@--------
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 22:11:02 -0400 (EDT)

Citizens of Nova Roma;

I come before you as the Proconsul of the Provincia of Nova Britannia to
announce the selection of the Legate of Regio Maine. The Honored
Senator, Consul, and Pontifex Maximus has accepted the appointment of
Legate to the Regio of Maine.

In addiion, I wish to announce the appointment of Scribae Tiberius
Ambrosius Quintillianus to my Provincial Staff to assist with the
personal contact of all citizens who reside in the above Provincia.
Scribae Quintillianus will join Librae Nerva in this work, in order to

--formulate a "Rough Census";

--to insure that anyone who wishes to take part in the formulation and
strengthening of Nova Roma through activity in her Provinces is provided
that honor and opportunity;

--and to determine the identity of those citizens who are interested in
face-to face events now being planned.

By copy of this message I formulate the Edict for the above appointments
and welcome both gentlemen into the active role of those working to
improve this Provincia. Both of the above gentlemen already have thier
tasks in hand, and the directions to carry them out, together with a
copy of this year's Provincial Plan for the operation of this part of
Nova Roma.

There are openings in the Nova Britannia Provincia for Legates from
Regios Connecticut, New Hampshire, and Rhode Island with the offer to a
gentleman for the Regio of Vermont just having been sent out today.
There are openings for several people on Provincial Staff, and plenty of
work to do, for those willing to give some of your valuable time and
effort to the effort of buiding a strong micro-nation. This is my
second general notice asking for volunteers.

Unfortunately, the appointed Editor of the intended Provincial
Newsletter has undergone a very painful and debilitating operation, but
if someone would like to assist in putting out this publcation there are
some assistants available, and some documents written that can be put
together. Anyone interested may contact myself, and I ask that the
three people who were assisting Prima Lucilla Cornelia Fortunata contact
me to see if we can salvage the first issue of the Newsletter and be
ready when the lady is again able to assume her appointed position.

Respecfully;
Marcus Audens -- ProConsul -- Provincia Nova Britannia -- Nova Roma

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

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Subject:	[novaroma] Citizenship Diploma
From:	"Pompeia Cornelia" <scriba_forum@-------->
Date:	Wed, 13 Jun 2001 02:49:08 -0000

Salvete Omnes:

Congratulations to citizen Amulius Claudius Petrus on his excellent design
draft!

I am thinking, that it might be financially advantageous to have these
diplomas professionally printed up in Canada, given the difference in the
dollar. I think so, anyway.

I am willing to look into it; perhaps Amuli Claudi and the Provincial
Procurator could work on this together, get a few quotes.

We would need to decide on some specifics.....personally, I would like to
see some nice pseudoparchment paper with embossed printing, but that is only
my taste and I do not presume to speak for everyone else.

Just a thought.....

Pompeia Cornelia
Propraetrix pro temp
Canada Orientalis
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Subject:	[novaroma] Nova Roma Coinage
From:	Marcus Bianchius Antonius <imperialreign@-------->
Date:	Tue, 12 Jun 2001 19:41:44 -0700 (PDT)

Salve,

I received my 40 Sestertii today. They are fantastic!
The size is perfect. It feels like what coinage should
feel like, like it carries weight. Not like a dime,
which feels fake. I am so taken with these, I may have
to order more.
When I talk to my friends and just people in general,
Nova Roma normally comes up. I tell people about it
and its ideals. Some just shrug it off as another
internet "fad" while others seem interested but
hesitent. Now I can show them a coin...maybe even give
them one...and they can see a product of our
micronation. I can show them something substantial
that Nova Roma produces, something "real" world, for
lack of a better term. They can see the care at which
we market ourselfs and the seriousness that we take
our mission.
I must commend everyone involved. These are indeed
coins to be proud of. I see the love that Nova Roma
reflects in the attention to detail in these
magnificent coins.

Vale,

Marcus Bianchius Antonius

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: On a national census
From:	"M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@-------->
Date:	Wed, 13 Jun 2001 06:01:15 +0200

M. Apollonius Formosanus Aedilis Plebeius omnibus Quiritibus S.P.D.

I do not feel any great necessity for poking my nose out when no
important moral principle is being violated, but there has been so
much discussion of a possible census that I thought I should express
my opinion. In fact it is highly similar to that of Censor Vedius.
(No, wonders will never cease! :-)

1. If a person joins Nova Roma and then vanishes, he leaves something
behind of value to us - his good name as another citizen, at least
for the purpose of swelling our numbers, and the larger our numbers
the more influential we will be. We have gained these names fair and
square, and we have every right to keep these people on our rolls
unless they express a desire to be removed. All that we must invest
is a minute bit of data storage space for each one, and we then reap
the reward of seeming a bigger and more influential
institution/nation.

To deliberately set out - at great expense of manpower and annoyance
to active citizens - to remove every name and person we possibly can
without arousing protest from them, thus reducing our population and
the favourable impact a large population can give us on public
opinion is, to me, really a perverse exercise.

Those phantom cives are doing us good, not harm, and they might very
well prefer their names not to be discarded, even if they cannot be
contacted when and how we feel like contacing them.

2. Our censorate is already thoroughly unhistorical. We have
continuous updates matching a constant presence of active censors. An
ancient-style census is not really necessary and would not make us
paricularly authentic in this part of our national life anyway.

3. The problem of vanished patres/matres familias is another matter.
Tracing *them* down or removing them from their positions if really
vanished would be a great service to all desiring to get adopted upon
entering NR. (However, I do not like the idea of forcing new cives to
join a gens for six months with the thought that they will then
leave. Gens membershup should ideally be permanent.)

Pontifex Graecus with his excellent page on the posture of Roman
worship shows us what our manpower might do that is really
constructive if we would not waste it on utterly unnecessary
administrative undertakings. He has with that made a lasting
contribution to religious education and research. More might well
emulate him.

The attempt to search people out just to force them to respond for
the sake of responding, with no consideration for the waste and
annoyance involved, is ill conceived. And wasting their names if they
do not respond is equally harmful. Let each individual choose his own
level of participation, or even non-participation. Let us stop trying
to over-regulate, over-document and generally make a nuisance of
ourselves as an institution in the lives of the citizenry. Busy work
of this sort does not move us forward. The marginal value it may have
is far outweighed by the hassle factor and waste. Just put the
inactive citizens in the appropriate categories and leave them alone
to come back to activity or not as they wish, and meantime to swell
our numbers at least. That is so much more satisfactory all around!

Valete!
_________________________________________________
Marcus Apollonius Formosanus
Psterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae
Aedilis Plebeius, Amicus Dignitatis
Magister Scholae Latinae
ICQ# 61698049 AIM: MAFormosanus MSN: Formosanus
Minervium Virtuale: http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/Minervium.htm
Gens Apollonia: http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/
The Gens Apollonia is accepting new members.
____________________________________________________
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enough good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke
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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Citizenship Certificate
From:	"Gaius Marcius Coriolanus" <coriolanus@-------->
Date:	Wed, 13 Jun 2001 05:33:32 -0000

> --- In novaroma@--------, Yann Qu�r� <--------re@l...> wrote:
> > Salvete
> >
> > I can translate the document in French and I suppose Sextus
> Apollonius Draco
> > is able to translate it in Dutsh ?
> > Let me know if you need my help for any translation.
> >
> > Ianus Querius Armoricus Lutecio

Salve

I can translate it to Slovak and Czech if it will be needed.
And there is posibility to contact Legatus Pannoniae Superioris Marcus Anto=
nius Victorinus to get Hungary translation or to my son in Marcii Marcus Lib=
erius to get Macedonian translation.

Ave et Vale
Gaius Marcius Coriolanus

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Q Fabius Maximus screen name change
From:	CmndrZil@--------
Date:	Wed, 13 Jun 2001 01:54:36 EDT

In a message dated 6/12/01 3:15:41 PM, QFabiusMaxmi@-------- writes:

>Salvete!
>Since AOL determined that QFabiusMax@-------- is somehow obscene
>I have been forced to make a change.
>My new address is QFabiusMaxmi@-------- All my friends and
>colleagues, magistrates, et al, please make a note of it. All list
>moderators please change my settings accordingly.
>Since I cannot get into the old screen name, I lost all those posts.
>If I do not reply to post sent to me that is the reason why. I am
>most sorry for the inconvenience
>Who knows why AOL does what it does?
>Valete!
>Q. Fabius Maximus.
>

I guess that's what you get for advertising for porn sites. :-)

I hate AOL, but I'm lazy and someone else pays the bills.

Tarquinia Euphemia

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Citizenship Certificate
From:	QFabiusMaxmi@--------
Date:	Wed, 13 Jun 2001 02:26:44 EDT

In a message dated 6/12/2001 4:49:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
pkkt@-------- writes:

An admirable concept. Slight English correction.
> "is a citizen of Nova Roma in good standing and is granted all the rights and
> privileges pertaining thereof. He will abide to the laws and ethics of Roman
> society and will serve the republic to the best of his ability. He will
> follow the Roman virtues daily in attempt to establish equality harmony and
> civility among our fellow citizens."

"Thereof" means all that is encompassed. Which I believe you were trying to
say?

Follow is the correct spelling, Fallow is a field unplowed.

I have a roman soldier's diploma on my website.
Vale
Q. Fabius Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[novaroma] Item of interest
From:	"Sebastyen Uriel Storm" <sstorm1@-------->
Date:	Wed, 13 Jun 2001 00:34:28 -0500

Just a nifty idea -
Says it's the weekly world news in Latin.
Any latin scholars ought to be interested

http://www.yle.fi/fbc/latini/recitatio.html

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: On a national census
From:	QFabiusMaxmi@--------
Date:	Wed, 13 Jun 2001 02:14:27 EDT

Q. Fabius Maximus omnibus Quiritibus S.P.D.

Romanoi! A most historical moment! F. Vedius, M. Apollonius and I agree on
something! A most precipitous time this is for Nova Roma!
Unless a citizen requests that he or she is removed from the rolls, he should
remain even if he is inactive.
After all what if he decides to become active again? Consider the waste,
Romans!
He has to reapply, the Censors must squander valuable time, checking and
approving, while what happens if he leaves again? The whole process must be
repeated. Let him stay, and add to the greatness which is Rome.

However I see things differently about the Paterfamilias.
This is an individual who must be involved in the overseeing of his gens. A
non active
Paterfamilias hinders Rome's development. Therefore rules should be set and
adhered to about the duties of the Paterfamilias. If they cannot be met,
then that person should be replaced, and demoted to a civilian. Again unless
this citizen requests it, he should remain a part of Nova Roma. Perhaps his
greatness lies elsewhere.
Valete

>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[novaroma] Tribal leaders of Trajanic era
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Jerry=20Anguston?= <gaiussentius@-------->
Date:	Wed, 13 Jun 2001 21:05:24 +1000 (EST)

Salvete Omnes,

I need to ask for some help. If anyone out there has
the resources to help me with this question, I would
be most grateful.

Does anyone know the leader of the following tribes in
the period around the rule of Trajan (most preferably
during the reign of Trajan):

* One of the leading Germanic Tribes
* The Sarmatians (or any cheiftain of the Sarmatians)
* The Parthians
* The Picts\Scots

If anyone knows of any of these, could you please let
me know, as I am tearing my hair out trying to find
any reference to these leaders.

Valete bene omnes,

Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura

Legatus Australia Medius
Sacerdos Mars Invictus

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Tribal leaders of Trajanic era
From:	"Lucilla Cornelia Cinna" <CorneliaLucilla@-------->
Date:	Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:24:28 +0200

Salve
On 13 Jun 2001, at 21:05, Jerry Anguston wrote:

> Salvete Omnes,
>
> I need to ask for some help. If anyone out there has
> the resources to help me with this question, I would
> be most grateful.
>
> Does anyone know the leader of the following tribes in
> the period around the rule of Trajan (most preferably
> during the reign of Trajan):
>
> * One of the leading Germanic Tribes
> * The Sarmatians (or any cheiftain of the Sarmatians)
> * The Parthians
> * The Picts\Scots
>
> If anyone knows of any of these, could you please let
> me know, as I am tearing my hair out trying to find
> any reference to these leaders.
>
> Valete bene omnes,
>
> Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura
>
> Legatus Australia Medius
> Sacerdos Mars Invictus
>
> _____________________________________________________________________________
> http://messenger.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger
> - Voice chat, mail alerts, stock quotes and favourite news and lots more!
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

_
Lucilla Cornelia Cinna \\
Quaestrix C. Flavio Diocletiano Praetori /\~/\ / )
Propraetori provinciae Germaniae ( )~~~----...,, __/ /
Retaria Sodalitatis Egressus \` �/ /
Musaea collegiorum Calliopes Cliusque \v/ _____( |
Sodalitatis Musarum / \| |~~~~� \ \ \
Civis NovaRomana ( ( | | ) /\ )
Auctrix Bibliotheca Germaniae \_\| | _/ / _| |
http://www.geocities.com/CorneliaLucilla /__/ /__/ /__/

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Subject:	[novaroma] Pennsic
From:	asseri@--------
Date:	Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:30:00 EDT

Greetings all,
Are there still persons going to Pennsic? It seems that everytime I post
something we have a ton of mail for various reasons.
Please contact me if you are going . I lost the posts previous and someone
was willing to host it. My group is making its plans and I may still be able
to host it if needed.

thanks
Prima Anncinna Drusila

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Tribal leaders of Trajanic era
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Tiberius=20Apollonius=20Cicatrix?= <consulromanus@-------->
Date:	Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:30:55 +0100 (BST)

Salve!

I only found this, but maybe you can search on the
website for more information.

Rasparaganus of the family of the ROXOLANOI ruled the
Sarmatians until 118 AD, so this was during the reign
of Trajan.

SOURCE: http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/regindex.html

Vale bene

=====
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
civis Novae Romae
____________________________

"De te autem, Catilina, cum quiescunt, probant; cum patiuntur, decernunt; cum tacent, clamant." (M. Tullius Cicero: In Catilinam I, 20)

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Subject:	[novaroma] The Pilum (Sodalitas Militarium Newsletter)
From:	CW2ShaneEvans@--------
Date:	Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:43:49 EDT

Most historians would agree that Rome was the greatest society ever. But
what made Rome great? Rome's might was found not in Her art. Nor was it
found in her government. The might of Rome rested in the hands of Her
military. Two thousand years later Rome lives again, in the form of Nova
Roma. There are many units out there who reenact Roman Legiones, and keep
the strength of Rome alive. They honor the many thousands who made Rome
great with their sweat, blood and tears. As Tribunus Augusticlavi of the
Sodalitas Militarium, it is my honor to present to you, Issue #1 of our new
newsletter, The Pilum. We will come out with a new issue every three months,
and cover various artciles on Rome and her military.

Focus on the Battle of 1st Cremona, April, Italy 69 CE Part One

The Campaign.
With the suicide of Nero in 68 CE the empire went through a period of
anarchy known as the 'Year of the Four Emperors.' The first of the four new
emperors was Servius Sulpicus Galba, the propraetor of Hither Spain who had
rebelled against Nero's rule with the help of his legio the sixth. He took
office with the support of the Senate and the Praetorian Guard, but ignored
the person who had brought him the purple, Lucius Otho, the Governor of
Lusitania province in southwest Spain.
When hearing that the 72 year old Galba was going to name a different
person as his successor, Otho went to the Guard, who themselves were
dissatisfied with the emperor's stinginess. Otho promised lavish rewards to
those who would get him the
purple. Fifteen Praetorian Guards, so encouraged, organized a revolt in
which Galba and his adopted son were killed in Janus 69, and handed the
office to Otho (Suetonius' The Twelve Caesars "Life of Otho." 5, 6). But
as Tacitus noted in "The Histories": "The secret of Empire was out, Emperors
could be made elsewhere than in Rome." (Tact. History I. 50)
And indeed, soldiers stationed outside Rome had decided to become
involved. The legions in Germania and the Rhine had once been commanded by
Galba and were fond of him. When it was heard that Otho had been proclaimed
Imperator after
murdering their former General, the legate of lower Germany, Fabius Valens,
acclaimed his general and the Governor of lower Germany Aulus Vitellius as
Emperor, and the legate of higher Germany, Alienus Caecina followed suit.
(Tact. I. 57.) Vitellius accepted the commission of being Galba's avenger
and he and his followers prepared to march on Rome with two legiones, 21st
Rapax and 5th Alaudae, and vexillatii from six more. Tacitus tells us: "After
the force from Britannia had joined him (three vexillatii from the 2nd, 9th,
20th ,probably 2,000-3,000 men, eight auxilii, 4,000 men ) Vitellius, who had
now a prodigious force and vast
resources, determined that there should be two generals and two lines of
march for the contemplated war. Fabius Valens was ordered to win over the
Gauls, if possible, or, if they refused his advance, to ravage the provinces
of Gaul, and to invade Italy by
way of the Cottian Alps. Caecina was to take the nearer route to Italy and to
march down from the Penine range. To Valens was entrusted the picked troops
of the army (i.e., the vexillatii from lower Germany legiones 4th, 14th,
15th, 2nd ) along with the 5th legion (minus two cohorts) and the auxiliary
infantry and cavalry, (including the famous Batavi) to the number of 40,000.
(This seems high unless Tacitus is including all the support personal. By my
count Valens' force should be around 18,000 fighting men.) Caecina commanded
30,000 from Upper Germany, (again this seems high, 14,000 seems more
likely.) his force being one legion, the 21st, 2 vexillatii (from the 1st
and the 13th ) German auxiliaries, (which are later called from Gaul,
Lusitania, and Rhaetia so they are not German at all [ Tact. I. 70] ) and
from this source Vitellius was later to follow with his whole military
strength." (Tact. I.
61.)
Tacitus may be inferring that Vitellius was waiting for the rest of the
army to assemble before following after his two legates. The British units
couldn't arrive until sailing season commenced which was sometime in March.
The campaign was well
under way by then. The "source" might refer to the legionary base at Cologne.
It allows for easy movement up the Rhine, and troops can move into Gaul,
where Vitellius would be (at Lyons) when Cremona was fought. This is all
speculation. Tacitus does not tell us. It also could be that Tacitus'
numbers refer to all the troops under both legates at the end of the campaign
in June.
Meanwhile Otho upon hearing that the Vitellians were coming over the
Alps mobilized his own forces. He started to lose troops in Cisalpine Gaul
upper Italy to the Vitellians (apparently no one likes a tyrannicide and
Galba was liked) including the Silius' horse and wished to stop that rot as
quick as possible.
He sent the legio composed of naval marines once stationed at Misenum,
now called Adiutrix (supportive) still in the capital for Nero's aborted 68
CE campaign, and detached 5 cohorts of Praetorians. There were Italian
auxiliaries as well, including
2,000 Gladiators. He had Annius Gallus, and Vestricius Spurinna in command.
He ordered Spurinna to take 3 cohorts of the five guard (1500) and occupy
the Padus to contest Caecina's crossing (Tact. II. 12.) He planned to join
with his loyal forces from
Pannonia and Dalmatia. He followed several days later with the rest of the
Praetorians in Rome (2,000), the guard horse (Equites Singularies) (500) and
citizens' levies (3 cohorts 1,500?) and his household. (Tact. I. 87.)
His expedition did not fair well in its beginning. Since bad luck
started with the expedition the Romans felt that Otho would have a hard time
in prevailing. To quote Plutarch: "As to the prodigies and apparitions that
happened about this time, there
were many reported which none could answer for, or which were told in
different ways; but one which everybody actually saw with, their eyes, was
the statue, in the capitol, of Victory carried in her chariot with the reins
dropped out of her hands, as if she were grown too weak to hold them any
longer; and a second, that Gaius Caesar's statue in the island of Tiber,
without earthquake or wind to account for it, turned round from west to east;
and this was a most unfortunate prodigy.
But now when the news came that Caecina had possessed the Alps, the
Emperor sent Dolabella, a patrician who was suspected by the soldiery of some
evil purpose, for whatever reason, whether it were fear of him or of any one
else, to the town of Aquinum, (base of Silius' horse) to give encouragement
there, and proceeded then to choose which of the magistrates should go with
him (Otho) to the war, he named amongst the rest Lucius, Vitellius brother
without distinguishing him by any new marks' either of his favor or
displeasure." (Plutarch Lives. Otho)
Meanwhile Caecina had accepted the defection of Silius' horse, a loyal
Galbian formation. The valley of the Padus (Po) was open. (Tact. II.17) He
captured 1,000 marines, and 100 horse, during his advance as well as a cohort
of Pannonians near
Cremona. (Tact. II. 17.) He also found out that the 13th legio from Pannonia
was near by.
This was because the 13th was responding to Otho's request to come to
Italy. The Armies of Pannonia and Dalmatia were all sending troops: "These
comprised of 4 legiones from each (army) of which 2,000 troops had been sent
on in advance. The 7th had been raised by Galba, the 11th 13th 14th were all
veteran soldiers." (Tact. II. 11.) The 13th and the auxiliaries from
Pannonia were in the advance, around 5,000 men.
As Caecina moved deeper into the valley of the Padus he decided to
advance against Placentia (It. Piacenza). By taking this fortress city, at
the junction of Po and the Trebia rivers, he could have a base of operations
as well as a secure place to await Valens. He discovered the Othoians had
rushed advanced forces under the command of Spurinna to Placentia. These were
3 cohorts of Praetorians, 2 cohorts of veteran citizen Auxilii (one is called
the 17th Coh.) and a "handful of horse." (Tact. II. 18.)
The Vitellians under Caecina prepared to storm the place. They had
already been successful in several skirmishes as they advanced across the Po
valley, and their war fever was very high. Caecina attempted to get them to
wait for Valens, but the
impetuous army wished to attack right away.
Tacitus tells us what happened next: "The first day, however, was spent
in a furious onset rather than in the skillful approaches of a veteran army.
Exposed and reckless, the troops came close under the walls, stupefied by
excess in food and wine. In this struggle the amphitheater, a most beautiful
building, situated outside the walls, was burnt to the ground, possibly set
on fire by the assailants, while they showered brands, fireballs, and ignited
missiles, on the besieged, possibly by the besieged themselves, while they
discharged incessant volleys in return."(Tact. II. 21) By nightfall Caecina
been repulsed with "great slaughter." His losses had come from the
auxiliaries, mostly Germans. (Tact. II. 24)
Both sides prepared during the night for the following day's assault.
The Vitellians constructed siege equipment- mantlets, pelvises, and ramming
sheds, (apparently they had no artillery) while the Othoians cut timber for
stakes and gathered the stones of buildings and heavy lead fittings to break
up the ranks of storming troops. (Presumably this was for the catapults,
Tacitus doesn't make it clear) The Praetorians and Italian cohorts engaged in
a friendly rivalry seeing who was faster in carrying out these tasks. Their
morale rose, accordingly.
As dawn came the walls were crowded with defenders, and the plains
surrounding the city had around 12,000 armed men ready to attack. Once it
was light the attack began. Tacitus continues: "The close array of the
legions, and the skirmishing parties of auxiliaries assailed with showers of
arrows and sling stones the loftier parts of the walls, attacking them at
close quarters, where they were undefended, or old and decayed. The
Othoians, who could take a more deliberate and certain aim, poured down their
javelins on the German cohortis as they recklessly advanced to the attack
with fierce warcrys, (the baratis) brandishing their shields above their
shoulders after the manner of their country, and leaving their bodies
unprotected. The soldiers of the legions, working under cover of mantlets and
hurdles, undermined the walls; threw up earthworks, and endeavored to burst
open the gates. The Praetorians opposed them by rolling down with a
tremendous crash - ponderous millstones, placed above for that purpose..
Beneath these many of the assailants were buried, and many, as the massacre
increased with the confusion and the attack of the walls be came fiercer,
retreated wounded, fainting and mangled... with serious damage to the honor
of the storming army." (Tact. II. 22.)
Caecina gave up. He had lost perhaps a quarter of his army. Since they
do not appear at First Cremona, his legio loss must have been from the
vexillatii of the 1st and 13th. He had greater losses in auxilia as would be
expected. (Tact. II. 22.)
Balked at seizing Placentia, Caecina next determined that Cremona would
be his base of operations. Since he had only the one viable legio the 21st,
he decided to retreat to the Padus, cross, and advance on to Cremona, before
the Othoians could react. Polybios tells us that "It (Cremona) was Latin
colony, which was founded in 218 B.C. as a bulwark against Gallic Insubres
and Boii on the north bank of the Po." (Polyb. 3.40;) "Cremona staunchly
supported Rome against Hannibal, although thereby it suffered so severely
that in 190 it required additional colonists" (Livy XXI. 27.10). Its
territory was confiscated for a colony of Roman veterans circa. 41 B.C.E.
(Erg. Ed. IX. 28). Thereafter it was an important road center. If Caecina
could seize that town, he could slow down the advance of Otho's
reinforcements from Dalmatia.
Spurinna let him go. He sent a warning to Gallus who was marching to
his relief with the "supportive" legio, the First. Gallus halted at
Bedriacum, and started to fortify. Tacitus says that this was a village
between Verona and day's march from
Cremona and on the via Postumia.(Tact. II. 23) It was to be the rallying
point for the Othoian forces. The problem is we do not know where it is
today.
We can make an educated guess. We know it was east of Cremona.
Plutarch says it was 150 furlongs away. (Plutarch, Otho) This puts it 16.9
miles away. Sixteen miles is a normal day march for Romans so sixteen miles
is likely correct. It was here that Otho would concentrate his scattered
army. Also a good tactical commander, Suetonius Paulinus (victor over
Boudicea), and vexillatii from his former legio, the 14th, (2000 men) had
arrived. (Paulinus from Rome, the 14th from Moesia). The Praetorians from
Rome (2 cohorts), the 13th from Pannonia (3000? It had its eagle) and the 1st
Adiutrix, as well as Paulinus' vexillatii of the old 14th gave Paulinus and
Marius Celsus a strong force to operate with. Paulinus quickly went on the
offensive.
Caecina, meanwhile had to do something. Valens had been delayed.
Vitellius was somewhere in Gaul, and the Othoians were becoming stronger. He
also discovered that an army commander in a civil war had to have successes,
otherwise the troops would stop listening to him. He needed a victory. So he
planned to ambush a unit of the enemy while it was scouting, destroy it, to
regain his men's favor.
The Othoians were watching the camp at Cremona. Caecina planned to
advance to the temple of Castor and Pollex 12 miles from Cremona. Plutarch
tells us what happened next: "Caecina placed a strong ambush in the rough and
woody country,
and gave orders to his horse to advance, and if the enemy scouts were to
charge them, then to make slow retreat and draw them into the snare."
However, deserters (a constant problem in any civil war) informed Paulinus of
the trap, and he set one of his own. He took the a Vexilliatio from veteran
13th, as well as 2 cohorts of Praetorians, the Equites and assorted
auxiliaries. He blocked the via to the south with 2 cohorts of the First. He
made sure that the 13th and Praetorians were well hidden on either side of
the road. When the Vitellians pursuing the fleeing enemy horse came down the
road, it was they who fell into the trap. "Then the Othoian infantry
charged. The line was completely crushed, and the reenforcements who were
coming up to their aid were also put to flight. Caecina indeed had not
brought up his cohors in a body, but one by one; as this was done during the
battle, it
increased the general confusion, because the troops who thus divided, were
not being strong at any one point, and were swept away by the panic of the
fugitives."(Tact. II 26.)
Paulinus has been censored by modern historians for not finishing the
job, Tacitus as well, claiming that whole Vitellian force was in a panic. But
his lack of pursuit made sense. After all he had no real idea where his
enemies' main forces were, and if what Tacitus tells is correct, there was a
lot of Vitellians strung out along the Via. Even though the Othoians were
successful, they won only through the element of surprise. They didn't
outnumber the entire enemy, and Paulinus sensibly called off the pursuit. And
what with soldiers being soldiers, the troops didn't understand, (it is
interesting how in a civil war everybody is a leader and military genius) and
suspected that Paulinus had been bought off by Caecina. He returned to the
camp with the disgusted forces.

Tiber Island
In accordance with ancient tradition the Tiber Island came into beingfrom
the actions taken after the last King of Rome, Tarquin The Proud,was driven
from Rome. Following the former king's departure, the people of Rome cast
into the Tiber River the entire harvest which had been the property of the
former monarch. This harvest was said to have been gathered in the Campus
Martius and contained a great amount of grains which were stored in woven
baskets.
Supposedly, when the grain and the baskets were thrown into the river,
at a time when the river was shallow in depth, the grain and baskets
formed a large pile in the river, which in turn created the basis of a
small island. Geologically speaking, the apparent cause for the
creation of the island was that the Island was formed at a place where
the river had widened, and where the current of the river could no
longer support the river sediment. As the speed of the current weakened
at this spot the sediment was deposited on the bed of the river forming
an island. Personnally, I prefer the former story regardless of it's
unlikely ending.
The island measures some 300 meters long by 80 meters wide. In the
early period of Rome the island was of great assistance in that the
presence of the island provided a step in which to aid in crossing the
Tiber. As a result this was the point at which the roads leading to the
vast productive farmlands in the South joined with the roads leading to
the mineral-rich country called Etruria in the North. In all
probability the citing of the early city must have been influenced by
these elements for although the city proper embraced the seven hills,
Rome was raised near this very easy river crossing.
There was a great wall built around the island, and this embankment
structure gave the island the appearance of a boat. The addition of a
small obelisk in the center of the island, provided the illusion of a
short mast and accentuated the maratime idea. In 289 BC, the Temple Of
Aesculapius was erected on the island dedicated to the God of Healing,
and following that estblishment the entire island aquired a sort of
sacred character even though it was never considered to be within the
city boundaries. The island became a place reserved for the treatment
of the sick: the temple can be considered to have been the first
primitive hospital in Rome.
To continue with the ancient legends, it is said that the sacred serpent
of Esculapius, which had been brought from Epidaurus in Greece, the
center of his cult, in order to protect Rome from a severe plague, fled
and took refuge on the island as soon as the ship carrying it drew near
to the place.
Towards the end of the Republic, the island was connected by two bridges
to the river banks. The Pons Fabricus which was constructed by Lucius
Fabricus (curator viarun) to the left bank, was built in 62 BC, and
historical documentation leads us to believe that this stone bridge
replaced an earlier wooden structure. The contemporary Pons Cestius was
a stone structure built by Lucius Cestius at the end of the 1st century
A.D. and then completely reconstructed in 365 A.D. and which provided
access to the right bank of the river.
To enhance the view of the appearance of a boat, a very large ornate and
artificial ship's prow and ram was built on the island in front of the
down-river end of the Temple. The temple itself, six pillars across the
end and some eight pillars long, gave the appearance of a top-heavy
Imperial barge of some kind. The temple was built on a stone block
foundaton some eight courses high. The bridges crossed the island just
behnd the up-river end of the temple. The remainder of the up-river end
of the island was occupied by buildings and porticoes.
The banks of the Tiber were kept clear of buildings in order to provide
free space for the warves to recieve the boats and barges from the Port
of Ostia to be made fast to be loaded and unloaded.

The Roman Legion
The Roman legions were large formations of exeptionally well trained soldiers
who could be relied upon to vigorously defend the borders of the Roman
Empire. Legions were deployed close to the borders of the Empire, and
particularly in the newly captured provinces. The legions played an important
role as an operational reserve and rapid reaction force for the auxiliary
cohorts stationed at the numerous border fortifications. When large raids or
full-scale attacks were reported, the two nearest legions at hand would
advance against the left and right flanks of the incursion in an attempt at
double envelopment.

Roman Legionairy Garrisons
legio VII Gemina, Legio (L�on, Spain)
legio II Augusta, Isca (Caerleon, Wales)
legio XX Valeria victrix, Deva (Chester)
legio VI Victrix, Eboracum (York, England)
legio XXX Ulpia, Vetera (Xanten, Netherlands)
legio I Minerva, Bonna (Bonn, Germany)
legio XXII Primigenia, Mogontiacum (Mayence, Germany)
legio VIII Augusta, Argentoratum (Strassbourg, France)
legio III Italica, Castra Regina (Ratisbon, Germany)
legio II Italica, Lauriacum (Lorch, Germany)
legio X Gemina, Vindobona (Vienna, Austria)
legio XIIII Gemina, Carnuntum (Bad Deutsch-Altenburg, Austria)
legio I Adiutix, Brigetio (Sz�ny, Hungary)
legio II Adiutix, Aquincum (Budapest, Hungary)
legio IIII Vlavia, Singidunum (Belgrad, Yugoslavia)
legio VII Claudia, Viminiacum (Kostolac)
legio XIII Gemina, Apulum (Alba Julia)
legio V Macedonica, Potaissa (Turda)
legio I Italica, Navae (Steklen)
legio XI Claudia, Durastorum (Silistra)
legio XV Apollinaris, Satala
legio XII Fulminata, Melitene (Malatya)
legio XVI Flavia firma, Samosata
legio IIII Scythica, Zeugma
legio III Gallica, Raphanea (Homs)
legio VI Ferrata, Carpacotna
legio X Fretensis, Aelia Capitolina (Jerusalem)
legio III Cyrenaica, Bostra (Bosra)
legio II Traiana, Alexandria
legio III Augusta, Lambaesis

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Subject:	[novaroma] Military Diploma
From:	jmath669642reng@--------
Date:	Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:37:58 -0400 (EDT)

Citizens of Nova Roma;

In partial response to the request for information regarding the subject
item, the following information is provided:

Reference:
"Greece and Rome at War," Peter Connolly

"A diploma, made of two bronze plates joined with rings, (was)
issued---granting citizenship---on completion of 25 years service as an
auxiliary."----(Picture--Page 223)

"The Auxiliary Infantryman served in the army for 25 years. On
discharge he recieved a Grant of Roman Citizenship which was inscribed
on a pair of bronze sheets known as a "Diploma." Hundreds of examples
have been found, and they are the main source of our knowledge of the
auxilery units"----(Page 224)

I would suppose that any of the better known Roman Museums would have a
transcription available. I also refer this discussion to others in NR
who have a more extensive library than I do.

Respectfully;
Marcus Audens
Praefectus Castorum -- Sodalitas Militarium --Nova Roma

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

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Subject:	[novaroma] a useful website
From:	asseri@--------
Date:	Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:18:46 EDT

<A HREF="http://www.angelfire.com/retro/crafts/">Click here: Anna's Crafts Links Page</A>
http://www.angelfire.com/retro/crafts/
Greetings,
I have used this web site over the years for different reasons. The site
has links for many things encampments, clothing, food any subject a reenacter
might need. It has many useful ideas. enjoy

Prima A. Drusila
(who is feeling talkative .. must be the heat)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Tribal leaders of Trajanic era
From:	"Lucilla Cornelia Cinna" <CorneliaLucilla@-------->
Date:	Wed, 13 Jun 2001 18:38:11 +0200

Salvete onmes,

Seems I hit the wrong button - sorry for that! :o)

On 13 Jun 2001, at 14:24, Lucilla Cornelia Cinna wrote:
> > Does anyone know the leader of the following tribes in
> > the period around the rule of Trajan (most preferably
> > during the reign of Trajan):
> >
> > * One of the leading Germanic Tribes
Quite difficult question, but I'll be looking for it. :o)

> > If anyone knows of any of these, could you please let
> > me know, as I am tearing my hair out trying to find
> > any reference to these leaders.
I can imagine ... what for do you need them?

Bene vale
_
Lucilla Cornelia Cinna \\
Quaestrix C. Flavio Diocletiano Praetori /\~/\ / )
Propraetori provinciae Germaniae ( )~~~----...,, __/ /
Retaria Sodalitatis Egressus \` �/ /
Musaea collegiorum Calliopes Cliusque \v/ _____( |
Sodalitatis Musarum / \| |~~~~� \ \ \
Civis NovaRomana ( ( | | ) /\ )
Auctrix Bibliotheca Germaniae \_\| | _/ / _| |
http://www.geocities.com/CorneliaLucilla /__/ /__/ /__/

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Tribal leaders of Trajanic era
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Jerry=20Anguston?= <gaiussentius@-------->
Date:	Thu, 14 Jun 2001 03:29:57 +1000 (EST)

Salve Lucilla,

I need them for reference. I'm doing a project on the
Roman Empire during the Trajanic Empire and it's
'neighbours', which include all of the tribe shown
below. As yet, much searching has only revealed
Voloseges as the Parthian King, and Decebalus as the
Dacian King.

Vale bene,

Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura

Legatus Australia Medius
Sacerdos Mars Invictus

--- Lucilla Cornelia Cinna <CorneliaLucilla@-------->
wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
Salvete onmes, 
 
Seems I hit the wrong button - sorry for that! :o) 
 
On 13 Jun 2001, at 14:24, Lucilla Cornelia Cinna
wrote: 
> > Does anyone know the leader of the following
tribes in 
> > the period around the rule of Trajan (most
preferably 
> > during the reign of Trajan): 
> > 
> > * One of the leading Germanic Tribes 
Quite difficult question, but I'll be looking for it.
:o) 
 
> > If anyone knows of any of these, could you
please let 
> > me know, as I am tearing my hair out trying
to find 
> > any reference to these leaders. 
I can imagine ... what for do you need them? 
 
Bene vale 

_ 
Lucilla Cornelia
Cinna
\\ 
Quaestrix C. Flavio Diocletiano Praetori
/\~/\
/ ) 
Propraetori provinciae
Germaniae
( )~~~----...,, __/ / 
Retaria Sodalitatis
Egressus
\`
�/
/ 
Musaea collegiorum Calliopes
Cliusque
\v/
_____( | 
Sodalitatis
Musarum
/ \| |~~~~� \ \ \ 
Civis
NovaRomana
( ( |
| )
/\ ) 
Auctrix Bibliotheca
Germaniae
\_\| | _/ / _|
| 
<a
href="http://www.geocities.com/CorneliaLucilla">http://www.geocities.com/CorneliaLucilla</a>
/__/ /__/ /__/
 
 
_________________________________________________________ 
Do You Yahoo!? 
Get your free @yahoo.com address at <a
href="http://mail.yahoo.com">http://mail.yahoo.com</a> 
 
</tt>

 



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Subject:	[novaroma] Digest No 1471 DE CENSO
From:	"Lucius Equitius" <vze23hw7@-------->
Date:	Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:08:15 -0400

Ex domo Censor Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Quirites SPD

There have been many good arguments both pro et contra census Novae Romae. I
stand in agreement with the general principles expressed by Aedile Plebis M
Appolonius, Consul F Vedius and most of all Praetor Quintus Fabius!

I do think that a 'census' of Mater & Paterfamilia would be the most
beneficial at the present, but until Leges or amendments to the constitution
are passed nothing could legally be done!
Even the recently passed Lex Vedia de Assidui et Capiti Censi is of no use
until there is a tax!

These 'citizens' as Pater & Materfamilis do have authority in relation to
the "State" yet they have not been held responsible for carrying out their
'duties', mostly because the duties have not been defined.

I still believe that my proposal to annually 'register' each Gens is the
best and most simple way to go about the situation. Each Gens would pay a
fee of ~$20-$30 with an additional $2-$4 per gens member. Those citizens who
do not wish to maintain a small gens could be adopted into an existing gens
or they could form a single gens from groups of like minded citizens.

________________________________________________________________________

From: QFabiusMaxmi@--------
Subject: Re: Re: On a national census

Q. Fabius Maximus omnibus Quiritibus S.P.D.

Romanoi! A most historical moment! F. Vedius, M. Apollonius and I agree on
something! A most precipitous time this is for Nova Roma!
Unless a citizen requests that he or she is removed from the rolls, he
should remain even if he is inactive. After all what if he decides to become
active again? Consider the waste, Romans!
He has to reapply, the Censors must squander valuable time, checking and
approving, while what happens if he leaves again? The whole process must be
repeated. Let him stay, and add to the greatness which is Rome.

However I see things differently about the Paterfamilias.
This is an individual who must be involved in the overseeing of his gens. A
non active Paterfamilias hinders Rome's development. Therefore rules should
be set and adhered to about the duties of the Paterfamilias. If they cannot
be met, then that person should be replaced, and demoted to a civilian.
Again unless this citizen requests it, he should remain a part of Nova Roma.
Perhaps his greatness lies elsewhere.
Valete

L EQUITIUS: One small 'quibble', please don't refer to someone as being
"demoted to a civilian".
________________________________________________________________________

From: "M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@-------->
Subject: Re: On a national census

M. Apollonius Formosanus Aedilis Plebeius omnibus Quiritibus S.P.D.

I do not feel any great necessity for poking my nose out when no
important moral principle is being violated, but there has been so
much discussion of a possible census that I thought I should express
my opinion. In fact it is highly similar to that of Censor Vedius.
(No, wonders will never cease! :-)

L EQUITIUS: I hope not ;-)

1. If a person joins Nova Roma and then vanishes, he leaves something
behind of value to us - his good name as another citizen, ....

To deliberately set out - at great expense of manpower and annoyance
to active citizens - to remove every name and person we possibly can
without arousing protest from them, thus reducing our population and
the favourable impact a large population can give us on public
opinion is, to me, really a perverse exercise.

Those phantom cives are doing us good, not harm, ...

L EQUITIUS: Not entirely, an argument could be made that some of them are
taking up names that would be used by more active citizens who have not been

2. Our censorate is already thoroughly unhistorical.

L EQUITIUS: While there are some things that we do differently, I disagree
that the office is "thoroughly unhistorical".

3. The problem of vanished patres/matres familias is another matter.
Tracing *them* down or removing them from their positions if really
vanished would be a great service to all desiring to get adopted upon
entering NR.

L EQUITIUS: Yes, this is something that we need to address. My edict was
only a beginning.
I hope that we can have a Lex soon that would actually give us the authority
to do something about the Gens situation.

Pontifex Graecus with his excellent page on the posture of Roman
worship shows us what our manpower might do that is really
constructive if we would not waste it on utterly unnecessary
administrative undertakings. He has with that made a lasting
contribution to religious education and research. More might well
emulate him.

L EQUITIUS: Truly, I look forward to the day when I can devote more time to
other things at the end of my term as Censor.

The attempt to search people out just to force them to respond for
the sake of responding, with no consideration for the waste and
annoyance involved, is ill conceived. And wasting their names if they
do not respond is equally harmful. Let each individual choose his own
level of participation, or even non-participation. Let us stop trying
to over-regulate, over-document and generally make a nuisance of
ourselves as an institution in the lives of the citizenry. Busy work
of this sort does not move us forward. The marginal value it may have
is far outweighed by the hassle factor and waste. Just put the
inactive citizens in the appropriate categories and leave them alone
to come back to activity or not as they wish, and meantime to swell
our numbers at least. That is so much more satisfactory all around!

Valete! Marcus Apollonius Formosanus
Psterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae

L EQUITIUS: YES!
________________________________________________________________________

DE RES ALIS

L EQUITIUS: The Sestertii *are* fantastic and they are real money! I used
them to buy goods at Roman Days (the first such use of Nova Roma
Sesturcii!!). Also, the Sestertii will be welcome at the Caupona Asellinae
during future events of the Legio XX. See the webpage of Aulus Equitius
http://www.geocities.com/richsc53/index.html

I'm sure when he has time Senator Iulianus (M Cassius) will give us a
general report at how well they are doing. I know from observing at Roman
Days that they are well received by the public.

I too have been handing them out to friends and associates who I'm sure will
take, what they likely thought a 'pipe dream', much more seriously!

From: Marcus Bianchius Antonius <imperialreign@-------->
Subject: Nova Roma Coinage

Salve,

I received my 40 Sestertii today. They are fantastic! The size is perfect.
It feels like what coinage should feel like, like it carries weight. Not
like a dime, which feels fake. I am so taken with these, I may have to order
more.
When I talk to my friends and just people in general, Nova Roma normally
comes up. I tell people about it and its ideals. Some just shrug it off as
another internet "fad" while others seem interested but hesitent. Now I can
show them a coin...maybe even give them one...and they can see a product of
our micronation. I can show them something substantial that Nova Roma
produces, something "real" world, for lack of a better term. They can see
the care at which we market ourselfs and the seriousness that we take our
mission.
I must commend everyone involved. These are indeed coins to be proud of. I
see the love that Nova Roma reflects in the attention to detail in these
magnificent coins.

Vale, Marcus Bianchius Antonius
________________________________________________________________________

L EQUITIUS: A "diploma" was done on a bronze plaque.
An example can be see on pg 23 of "Hadrain's Wall in the days of the Romans"
by Ronald Embleton & Frank Graham with a depiction of a presentation
ceremony on pg 84-5
ISBN 0-88029-465-5
I believe that there is also some information in Peter Connolly's books as
well.

From: gkbagne@--------
Subject: Re: Citizenship Certificate

To All From Lepella, Salve!

I believe that a certificate of citizenship was called a diploma,
at least in the legions, and were printed on lead. I think a diploma
done on metallic foil would be both handsome and mailable. Does
anyone on the military side have any idea how a diploma was phrased?

Be Well! (imperative case)

________________________________________________________________________

L EQUITIUS: Good Senator Maximus, would you please be so kind as to post the
address of your webpage?

From: QFabiusMaxmi@--------
Subject: Re: Citizenship Certificate

In a message dated 6/12/2001 4:49:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
pkkt@-------- writes:

An admirable concept. Slight English correction.
> "is a citizen of Nova Roma in good standing and is granted all the rights
and
> privileges pertaining thereof. He will..."

"Thereof" means all that is encompassed. Which I believe you were trying to
say?
Follow is the correct spelling, Fallow is a field unplowed.

I have a roman soldier's diploma on my website.

Vale, Q. Fabius Maximus
________________________________________________________________________

MARS NOS PROTEGAS

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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Digest No 1471 DE CENSO
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:21:00 -0400

Salvete

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lucius Equitius [mailto:vze23hw7@--------]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 2:08 PM
>
> There have been many good arguments both pro et contra census Novae Romae.
I
> stand in agreement with the general principles expressed by Aedile Plebis
M
> Appolonius, Consul F Vedius and most of all Praetor Quintus Fabius!

Methinks the person with the ice-skate concession in Hell is smiling right
now! ;-)

> I do think that a 'census' of Mater & Paterfamilia would be the most
> beneficial at the present, but until Leges or amendments to the
constitution
> are passed nothing could legally be done!
>
> I still believe that my proposal to annually 'register' each Gens is the
> best and most simple way to go about the situation. Each Gens would pay a
> fee of ~$20-$30 with an additional $2-$4 per gens member. Those citizens
who
> do not wish to maintain a small gens could be adopted into an existing
gens
> or they could form a single gens from groups of like minded citizens.

While I think the amounts you quote are a tad high (considering the idea is,
I believe, to demonstrate interest in heading and maintaining a gens, rather
than as a main revenue-generating stream), I very much agree with this idea.
I would suggest a much more modest amount, however; $10 per gens plus $1 per
gens member (with the paterfamilias being ultimately responsible for
paying). I am sure that gens Cornelia could arrange some sort of loan
through their local lending institution to cover such a cost. ;-)

Such a plan would, I think, ferret out those who have no real interest in
leading a gens (and thus are a real impediment to any activities that
require a paterfamilias to act such as approving new members), and open up
the door for those who have a real fire in the belly to do so. Too, it would
be quite simple to enact by Senatus Consultum, as no Constitutional
amendment or lex would be required.

Question for those more knowledgeable about the gens/familia system than I:
were there in fact Citizens in Roma Antiqua who were not members of any gens
or familia? Did such people have a collective label? I note nothing in our
Constitution specifically requires a Citizen to belong to a gens. Is it
historical to allow cives to "opt out" of the gens system entirely (assuming
they cannot find a gens willing to take them in)? If so, what would be the
benefit to belonging to a gens?

(As an aside, this could be the solution to the problem of requiring
patresfamilia to have six months' Citizenship; rather than forcing them into
a gens and then switch out, they might be able to simply not join any gens,
and found their own later on.)

Something to think about, indeed!

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Digest No 1471 DE CENSO
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:57:53 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@n...>
wrote:
SNIP
>
> Question for those more knowledgeable about the gens/familia system
than I:
> were there in fact Citizens in Roma Antiqua who were not members of
any gens
> or familia? Did such people have a collective label? I note nothing
in our
> Constitution specifically requires a Citizen to belong to a gens.
Is it
> historical to allow cives to "opt out" of the gens system entirely
(assuming
> they cannot find a gens willing to take them in)? If so, what would
be the
> benefit to belonging to a gens?
>
Salve Consul,

I'm at work and away from any referance material. Off the top of my
head I can't recall any group of citizens who would not have a place
in the Gens/Family system in Antiquita during the Republican era.

Legitmate children were members of thier fathers Gens & Family if not
exposed. If exposed they were NOT citizens.

Illegitimate children belonged to thier mothers Gens & Family IF the
Pater was willing, otherwise they were not citizens.

You were NOT born a Roman citizen, but became one when your
Paterfamilis decided to accept you into the family at the time of
your birth, so all native Romans had a place in the Gens/Family
structure.

A foriegner who became a citizen became a member of the Gens of the
Patron who aquired the citizenship for him. He did not become a
member of his Patron's family however, but became a Paterfamilis of
his own family. This includes those who became citizens through
military service.

Slaves who were freed became citizens in the same manner as a
foriegner.

There really wasn't any benifit in belonging to a Gens other than it
symbolized your place in society. The Family was far more important.

Vale
L. Sicinius Drusus

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Citizenship Diploma
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Wed, 13 Jun 2001 16:28:07 -0400

Salve civis et amicus,

I have updated the certificate design to form a compromise of the many
suggestions I received. If you wish to view the updated version go to

http://www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/cc.gif

I also wish to thank all the helpful citizens who translated the draft into
many different versions. I have made copies so hopefully the non English
speaking citizens won't be left out.

Pompeia Cornelia wrote:
> Congratulations to citizen Amulius Claudius Petrus on his excellent design
> draft!

Thank you.

>
> I am thinking, that it might be financially advantageous to have these
> diplomas professionally printed up in Canada, given the difference in the
> dollar. I think so, anyway.

I must agree with Pompeia Cornelia on the benefits of producing the
certificates in Canada Orientalis. It will be cheeper. It's easier for me to
pursue seriously also, because it is my home province. That is if I would be
the citizen who would be aloud to oversee production. Another reason why
this project should be handed over to the citizens of Canada Orientalis is
that the American provinces handle many of these types of fund raiser
projects. I and others like me in Canada Orientalis would like the chance to
take on such a project.

>
> I am willing to look into it; perhaps Amuli Claudi and the Provincial
> Procurator could work on this together, get a few quotes.

I would love to pursue this.

>
> We would need to decide on some specifics.....personally, I would like to
> see some nice pseudoparchment paper with embossed printing, but that is only
> my taste and I do not presume to speak for everyone else.

Yes we still do have some decisions to make on specifics. I have a massive
pile of high quality card stock paper in my house left over from a previous
project of mine. I could currently produce 300 certificates for $70 if we
use this paper. If we sell all 300 these certificates for $3 each we could
donate $140 to the nation before having to buy more of this paper. Today I
printed out the updated draft on this card stock paper and it looks quite
sharp. I put it in a frame out of curiosity, and it looks great being
displayed.

Hinc est mei oratio!

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Canada Orientalis Provincia
www.freehost.nu/members/canorien
--

Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/

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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Digest No 1471 DE CENSO
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:57:29 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete omnes; et salve, consul Germanice.

--- Flavius Vedius Germanicus <germanicus@--------> wrote:

<<snipped>>

Let me see if I have got it right. You want more paterfamilias to
invlucrate in their gens, right? And in order to get this, you propose
that paterfamilias be required to pay an additional amount just for
being a paterfamilias...

I think you should reconsider this. I think it would certainly NOT
raise the number of active paterfamilias.

I agree with requiring paterfamilias to wait for some time, in order to
prove that they take sriously the charge. But I think this is
excessive, and would have the opposite effect.

> Question for those more knowledgeable about the gens/familia system
> than I:
> were there in fact Citizens in Roma Antiqua who were not members of
> any gens
> or familia? Did such people have a collective label? I note nothing
> in our
> Constitution specifically requires a Citizen to belong to a gens. Is
> it
> historical to allow cives to "opt out" of the gens system entirely
> (assuming
> they cannot find a gens willing to take them in)? If so, what would
> be the
> benefit to belonging to a gens?

Historically, if you were a citizen, you had a familia. If you were an
adult man, you probably would be the paterfamilias of your familia. And
all familiae belonged to a gens.

If you are a citizen, you have a nomen, and you belong to the gens of
that nomen. Even slaves legally belonged to a familia.

> (As an aside, this could be the solution to the problem of requiring
> patresfamilia to have six months' Citizenship; rather than forcing
> them into
> a gens and then switch out, they might be able to simply not join any
> gens,
> and found their own later on.)

I think making them able to create their own familia within a gens
would be enough for most citizens. If they really want to create a new
gens, they could be the paterfamilias of their own familia within
another gens and then go on to create a new gens without having to ask
permission to anyone after six months.

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Citizenship Diploma
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:02:53 -0700 (PDT)

Salve, A. Claudi Petre.

Although I like your certificate, I have to say you have made a few
mistakes. First, the date is not yet a Roman date. It should read a.d.
III idus Iunonis. Even if you don't want to write the proper Roman
date, then you are writing the month's name incorrectly. It should be
"Iunonis".

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	[novaroma] New e-mail for Patricia Cassia
From:	"pjane@--------" <pjane@-------->
Date:	Wed, 13 Jun 2001 18:29:01 -0400

I am having trouble with my main e-mail address (the one listed on
this e-mail) and am asking anyone who has a message for me to send it
to

pcassia@--------

I check NR lists on the Web so list traffic is not affected. My
apologies to anyone who has sent me a message recently and has not
received a reply; please resend to the janeraeburn.com address.

--
Patricia Cassia
Quaestrix et Senatrix, Nova Roma
pcassia@--------

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Subject:	[novaroma] Nova Britannia Chat Tonight
From:	"C. Minucius Hadrianus" <shinjikun@-------->
Date:	Wed, 13 Jun 2001 18:51:01 -0400

Salvete omnes,

Just a reminder that the weekly Nova Britannia chat will be held tonight
from 21:00 - 22:00 (EST or GMT -5:00) in the Nova Britannia mailing list
chat room at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NovaBritannia/chat. I encourage
all Nova Britanniae to stop in and say hello (any other interested cives are
welcome, of course!).

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Legatus of Massachusetts

ICQ# 28924742

"Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum." - Vegetius

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	[novaroma] Appointment
From:	jmath669642reng@--------
Date:	Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:20:07 -0400 (EDT)

Citizens of Nova Roma;

I come before you to announce the appointment of the Editor Pro-Tem of
the Provincia Nova Britannia Newsletter, Hyaparia Asinia Margali. Just
recently. I was appraised that our former Newsletter Editor Prima
Cornelia Fortunata is recovering from a difficult operation and Margali
has graciously consented to fill the shoes of the irrepressable Prima
Fortunata until she returns. This message shall serve as a notice of
Edict for this appointment.

I would respectfully ask that all of those who had volunteered to serve
as Assistants to Prima Fortunata in April of this year, would contact me
again as Editor Pro-Tem Margali has need of your excellent assistance in
once again undertaking to publish a Newsletter for the Provincia.

To those citizens in Provincia Nova Britannia who have blocked access to
your E-Mail, I just wish you to know that our attempt to contact you, is
our way of giving you a chance to be involved in the Provincia
Organization. I pen this brief note to you, so that if you are
otherwise taken up in your life at the present time, I and my Staff
understand, and we hope that you will notify us when you again have a
small amount of time available to invest in Nova Roma.

Respectfully;
Marcus Audens
ProConsul -- Provincia Nova Britannia -- Nova Roma

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Citizenship Diploma
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:26:00 -0400

The whole business of Latin months is complicated, because it depends on
which time period you're discussing. June was referred to both Iunonius or
Iunius.

I was looking for a simple way that a citizen not knowing much about the
Roman calender system would understand. I am planing making it an option on
how you would like your date displayed the simple or historical way.

Though if most citizens would like the historical DIES SOLIS AD III ID IVN
MMDCCLIV AUC then its simple enough for me to make the changes.

Hinc est mei oratio!

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Canada Orientalis Provincia
www.freehost.nu/members/canorien
--

Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/

Gnaeus Salix Astur wrote:

> Salve, A. Claudi Petre.
>
> Although I like your certificate, I have to say you have made a few
> mistakes. First, the date is not yet a Roman date. It should read a.d.
> III idus Iunonis. Even if you don't want to write the proper Roman
> date, then you are writing the month's name incorrectly. It should be
> "Iunonis".

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