Subject:	[novaroma] OFFICIAL PROCLAMATION OF PROVINCIAL DEITIES
From:	"Pompeia Cornelia" <trog99@-------->
Date:	Tue, 26 Jun 2001 20:06:02 -0400

CANADA ORIENTALIS PROVINCIA
EDICTUM VII
June 26 2754 AUC

PROCLAMATION OF PROVINCIAL DEITIES

I, Pompeia Cornelia Strabo, Propraetrix pro temp Nova Roma, in service to my
provincia, stand before you togate and veiled, to proclaim the Patron
Deities of Provincia Canada Orientalis.

The Primary Deity shall be CERES, Goddess of agriculture and harvest. Canada
Orientalis enjoys a wealth of varied agricultural pursuits and exports.
Canada is known worldwide for its excellent brewing skills.

A Secondary Deity shall be BACCHUS, God of wine, agriculture, the fertility
of nature ,et alia. Canada Orientalis has a large industry of wine
production from the growth of grapes in the southern Niagara Region.

Further, a Secondary Deity shall be VULCAN, God of fire, craftmanship, the
forge and the smith. Canada Orientalis is home to some major steel mills
and many mines.

On my desk I presently display three items:

Whole wheat bread to honour Ceres

A handcrafted bronze amulet to honour Vulcan

A small portion of wine to honour Bacchus.

I have lit a candle and I have said a private prayer for the wellbeing of
all in Nova Roma, and that our res publica may serve as a beacon of light to
the world, through the virtues we collectively pontificate.

I drink to the wellbeing of our res publica.

I would like to thank Pontifex Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus, and Pontifex
Quintus Fabius Maximus for their help and guidance in the selection of these
patrons.

Pontifex Maximus offered a libation in honour of Bacchus, for the good of
Nova Roma. If there are those who would like to envoke the appropriate
rites to honour Ceres et Vulcan, please do. It would be appreciated by the
Provincia and I am sure, the entire populace.

In service to the res publica,

Pompeia Cornelia Strabo
Propraetrix pro temp
Canada Orientalis Provincia
NOVA ROMA
_________________________________________________________________________
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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Xtreme Xtians
From:	gkbagne@--------
Date:	Wed, 27 Jun 2001 00:24:38 -0000

>From Lepella, To all Salvete!

I agree that we should be wary of Christian fanatics, perhaps even
to the extent of keeping any assets (when we do get a treasury going)
outside the U.S. We are flying under the Xtian radar now, and there
our other web groups that we are hidden among, but as we grow, we are
bound to be noticed.
If you think these warnings are a bit paranoid, I advise you to
never underestimate the power of stupidity. I attended a camping
event for the Society of Creative Anachronists (S.C.A.), a mideval
recreation group, in northern rural California about 8 years ago.
Late Saturday night a couple of carfulls of young men show up with
baseball bats because they heard a televagilist had said the S.C.A.
was a front for the Satanic Church of America. They were quickly
surrounded by a large group of people with heavy rattan swords which
are used in SCA combat. Fortunately, someone quickly called the local
sheriff and the locals did not get a chance to get themselves hurt.
After that I have never camped at the perimeter of an event in case
next time they grow a brain cell and bring projectile weapons.
While we can't make ourselves completly safe, I believe it would be
wise to consider precautians.
Be Well! (imperative)




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Tribune's Opinion on Censorship
From:	Fortunatus <labienus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 26 Jun 2001 20:26:18 -0500

Salve Gnai Salix

> Thank you for explaining this situation for me. I do understand your
> point of view; however, I think we should always try to get rid of
> our national bias when handling issues in an international community
> like Nova Roma. I guess it is the source of most misunderstaindings
> here, so we should try to avoid it.

I agree with you, and I attempt to avoid the error as much as I can.
However, I admit that I am quite fallible, and that self-inspection is a
very difficult endeavor. It is easy to fool oneself into believing that
one is unbiased if one is not careful, and cultural biases and social
pressure brought about by the cultural biases of others can be very
subtle influences. Indeed, at lease one psychologist has suggested that
the most common outcome of the process known as cognitive dissonance is
that we modify our opinions to fit the actions we wish to take due to
such subtle pressures and biases. All too often, this is a truism.

> Having said this, I have to say that I am really sorry for maybe
> presenting the impression of always disagreeing with you. I hope
> you and everybody is aware that this is not the case; I agree with
> you in many issues.

I have no problem with the kinds of disagreements you and I seem to
have. They lead to better thinking and a richer exchange of ideas. By
all means continue to disagree with me in such a manner.

Vale
T Labienus Fortunatus
--
"Ipsa scientia potestas est."
-Francis Bacon



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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: OFFICIAL PROCLAMATION OF PROVINCIAL DEITIES
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Tue, 26 Jun 2001 21:28:58 -0400

Great to see our province taking part in the religion of the state. Wish we
could of had made Aquilo, God of the north wind one of the official deities
though. Oh well, can't please everyone. =) Bacchus is a good choice that was
a pleasant surprise.

It is unfortunate that the citizens of this province did not taking a more
active role in this decision. As province we should express a group effort
on decisions like this one. This is a issue that needs to be looked at.


"Quamquam cupido sis delictum ab sui crebro suum mater ab vitualis"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Canada Orientalis Provincia
www.freehost.nu/members/canorien
--

Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/


Pompeia Cornelia wrote:

> I, Pompeia Cornelia Strabo, Propraetrix pro temp Nova Roma, in service to my
> provincia, stand before you togate and veiled, to proclaim the Patron
> Deities of Provincia Canada Orientalis.
>
> The Primary Deity shall be CERES, Goddess of agriculture and harvest. Canada
> Orientalis enjoys a wealth of varied agricultural pursuits and exports.
> Canada is known worldwide for its excellent brewing skills.
>
> A Secondary Deity shall be BACCHUS, God of wine, agriculture, the fertility
> of nature ,et alia. Canada Orientalis has a large industry of wine
> production from the growth of grapes in the southern Niagara Region.
>
> Further, a Secondary Deity shall be VULCAN, God of fire, craftmanship, the
> forge and the smith. Canada Orientalis is home to some major steel mills
> and many mines.




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Subject:	[novaroma] Questions for all
From:	gcassiusnerva@--------
Date:	Tue, 26 Jun 2001 21:59:45 EDT

Salvete,

I need some names of actual historical Roman engineers and financial
wizards, diplomatic types and scientists/explorers. If you know of any,
please post these names with the occupation they are most known for.

Nerva


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Questions for all
From:	"Pompeia Cornelia Strabo" <scriba_forum@-------->
Date:	Wed, 27 Jun 2001 02:29:42 -0000

Salve Nerva:

Hmm, I'll have to think about this further, but right off the top of my
head, Marcus Lucinius Crassus,was a financial wizard. He was in the first
Triumvirate, as you likely recall, with Caesar and Pompeius.

I'll put my thinking cap on for other stuff.

Vale,
Po


>From: gcassiusnerva@--------
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: novaroma@--------
>Subject: [novaroma] Questions for all
>Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 21:59:45 EDT
>
>Salvete,
>
> I need some names of actual historical Roman engineers and financial
>wizards, diplomatic types and scientists/explorers. If you know of any,
>please post these names with the occupation they are most known for.
>
>Nerva
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Xtreme Xtians
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Wed, 27 Jun 2001 02:52:30 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, amg@c... wrote:
> Salvete omnes
>
> I'm here to answer both as a non-Christian follower of the Religio
> Romana and as an amateur student of Philosophy.
>
> Lets not turn this list into a combat between Christians and non-
> Christians. There is nothing here to fight for:
> - Senator Marcus Minucius Audens is the example of a Christian who is
> doing a lot for the Religio Romana, supporting initiatives to promote
> it among the macronational public.
> - Censor Lucius Cornelius Sulla is a Jew who as magistrate has also
> sworn an oath of allegiance to the Roman Gods. Both these people have
> done more for the Religio than many "pagans". And they know more
> about the Religio than many "pagans" who claim to be followers of the
> Religio Romana.
>
> Lets be correct and behave like the wise men of old. According to
> many ancient Roman writers, the definition of "religio" (its
> classical translation is "observance") is connected with ritual
> observance and not inner belief.
> This means that any Jew, Moslem, Christian, Hindu, Atheist or
> whatever who performs Roman rituals is a follower of the Religio
> Romana independently of his inner beliefs. For the Roman Gods, the
> simple fact that one worships them is enough to invoke their support
> and benevolence. And these Gods are as magnanimous as to allow humans
> to think about them freely, for the reasoning about the Gods is out
> of the scope of the Religio Romana. Its basic form belongs to the
> realm of folklore and Myth... While its more elaborate forms belong
> to the realm of Philosophy, more specifically the discipline of
> Theology or Theosophy.
>
> So, my sugestion for those who claim to be followers of the Religio
> Romana is for them to stop attacking Christians and other religious
> belief systems. Instead concentrate on learning about the Religio
> Romana and start observing the Religio Romana at your homes. Only in
> this way you will be contributing to the knowledge of the Religio
> Romana and be able to claim you are among its followers. Until then
> the Roman Gods will not hear your assertions, for just like humans,
> the Gods also become bothered with useless fanatic dogmatic
> discussions which bear no drop of humanity and respect for the very
> same freedom of thought they have offered to humans.
>
> At least try to put more reasoning and less passion in your debates.
> Unless a specific group of people or historical period is being
> debated, instead of referring to the "fanatic Christians", refer to
> the "fanatic humans". Personally, I believe that in terms of
> percentage, there are as many ignorant fanatic pagans as there are
> ignorant fanatic Christians. And I even find the former more
> threatening to the Religio Romana than the latter. For the ignorant
> fanatic pagans act from the inside to subvert the very nature of the
> Religio according to their limited minds, while the ignorant fanatic
> christians fight the Religio as it is (in fact, several Roman pagan
> works and practices are known because some Christian authors attacked
> them).
>
> Valete bene in pace libertateque deorum romanorum
>
> Antonius Gryllus Graecus
> Pontifex

Salve,

Lest any mistake my words,

My warnings against SOME fanatics do NOT apply to the majority of
Christians. I am a Panthiest who happens to think the Roman view of
the Gods is closer to the true nature of the divine than other faiths,
but I have the Panthiest's faith that all the Gods that men worship
are different views of the divine. From my viewpoint the Christians
simply have a different view of the divine than I do, but we both pay
honor to that divine spirit.

More than that, starting in about 783 AUC Christanity WAS a part of
the Roman world. To deny Christians a place in Nova Roma is denying a
part of our Roman heirtage.

The Fanatics that I warn you about aren't liked by many mainstream
Christians. They have the same view of Christanity that the Talaband
has of Islam. They are a minority, but they do have the organization
and the numbers to make them a policital force in the USA.

Tonight as I watched the National news I saw that the US may cut back
on funding of stem cell research, despite the fact that it promises
cures for many grave illnesses, despite the fact that a large majority
of Americans approve of this research, because these zealots disaprove
of it on religious grounds. These Talaband style fundementalists are a
threat to us.

As to the ancient rift between Christians and Pagans, lets leave that
in the past. BOTH sides in that argument committed grave injustices to
each other. It was WRONG of the Imperial cult to try to force
Christians to worship the Emperor. It was WRONG for some Pagans to
support the Imperial perscution of Christians. It was WRONG for some
Christians to publicly insult the Gods thier neighbors worshiped. It
was WRONG for the Christians to persucate the Pagans once they gained
control of the Imperial throne. Lets leave these ancient wrongs in the
past along with Slavery and Imperlism.

Vale,
L. Sicinius Drusus




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: OFFICIAL PROCLAMATION OF PROVINCIAL DEITIES
From:	"Pompeia Cornelia Strabo" <scriba_forum@-------->
Date:	Wed, 27 Jun 2001 03:12:13 -0000

Salvete Omnes:

Ahh, but Claudi they did take a more active role than you might realize. I
received suggestions from civites through private email, which did not
appear on our provincial list.

Valete,
Pompeia


>From: Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: <novaroma@-------->
>Subject: [novaroma] Re: OFFICIAL PROCLAMATION OF PROVINCIAL DEITIES
>Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 21:28:58 -0400
>
>
>Great to see our province taking part in the religion of the state. Wish we
>could of had made Aquilo, God of the north wind one of the official deities
>though. Oh well, can't please everyone. =) Bacchus is a good choice that
>was
>a pleasant surprise.
>
>It is unfortunate that the citizens of this province did not taking a more
>active role in this decision. As province we should express a group effort
>on decisions like this one. This is a issue that needs to be looked at.
>
>
>"Quamquam cupido sis delictum ab sui crebro suum mater ab vitualis"
>"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of
>virtues"
>
>--
>Amulius Claudius Petrus
>Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
>Canada Orientalis Provincia
>www.freehost.nu/members/canorien
>--
>
>Gens Claudia Website:
>www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/

(snipped for brevity)
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________________
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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Questions for all
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Wed, 27 Jun 2001 03:21:40 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, gcassiusnerva@c... wrote:
> Salvete,
>
> I need some names of actual historical Roman engineers and
financial
> wizards, diplomatic types and scientists/explorers. If you know of
any,
> please post these names with the occupation they are most known for.
>
> Nerva
>
>
Salve,

For a finicial wizard, Lucius Cornelius Balbus who handled G. Iulius
Caerar's finances.

Most of the Scientists of that era were Greeks, so Claudius Ptolemy a
Roman citizen of Greek ancestry is the best I can offer.

For an engineer, Sextus Julius Frontinus, curator aquarum under Nerva
and Trajan. An English translation of his work on the Aquaducts is at
http://www.ukans.edu/history/index/europe/ancient_rome/E/Roman/Texts/Frontinus/De_Aquis/text*.html


Vale,
L. Sicinius Drusus




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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Freedom of Speech and Language
From:	"Gaius Marcius Coriolanus" <coriolanus@-------->
Date:	Wed, 27 Jun 2001 06:27:04 -0000

Quirites

I've got just one question for all

Do we really need main list censored ?

I'm living in country in which a few years ago was censored almost
everything. Citizens could not say what they wanted to say because
some speeches was " dangerous to state and party ". So I'm very
anxious about any sign of censorship.

So let the anyone say what he/she wants to say.

Ave et Vale.
Gaius Marcius Coriolanus




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Freedom of Speech and Language
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@-------->
Date:	Wed, 27 Jun 2001 00:34:41 -0700

Ave,

We tried having a non-moderated list during the Consulship of Q. Fabius
and M. Municius. It failed.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

Gaius Marcius Coriolanus wrote:
>
> Quirites
>
> I've got just one question for all
>
> Do we really need main list censored ?
>
> I'm living in country in which a few years ago was censored almost
> everything. Citizens could not say what they wanted to say because
> some speeches was " dangerous to state and party ". So I'm very
> anxious about any sign of censorship.
>
> So let the anyone say what he/she wants to say.
>
> Ave et Vale.
> Gaius Marcius Coriolanus
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> [Check out great fares at Orbitz!]
>
>
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Subject:	[novaroma] Censorship
From:	jmath669642reng@--------
Date:	Wed, 27 Jun 2001 05:04:28 -0400 (EDT)

Citizen Gaius Marcius Coriolanus;

During the Consulship of Quintus Fabius Maximus and myself, the Main
List was unmoderated for a time, and both Consuls hoped to keep it that
way. However, the list became more and more unmanagable because of the
odd postings here and the things that were being said--so that the
Consul's were finally overrulled by the NR Citizens, and the List was
again moderated.

Since that time the List Moderator(s) have done an excellent job of
keeping the list clear of foul language, posts which cannot be
understood by all Nova Romans, and list behavior which is not
appropriate. There are still those who feel that the Main List is for
them and for them only, and that they can say anything, in any way that
they wish here. Those people would turn the Main List into another
"Back Alley" where anything goes, and it may be said in any way, and the
weakest stomach to the wall. Such is not my view of Nova Roma or it's
Main List.

The problem, of course, with that view is that we in Nova Roma are
trying to attract intelligent, useful people to the micronation who do
not desire to be insulted by harsh language or do not understand what is
going on in exotic languages without meaningful translations or be
verbally attacked by fanatic religious lurkers, all of which has been
attempted or accomplished prior to this discusson.

Even now the micronation faces the consideration of slowing a few people
down so that the Main List provides an equal chance for everyone. Many
people have commented about thier loss of interest in the Main List
because of the vast amount of political discussion that is carried on
here by a relative few. These people say if you don't like it turn it
off, but others say there is no need for any person to make five posts a
day on any one topic when two well thought out posts are sufficient.
There was at one time a strong suggestion by a Main List Moderator that
there should be a limit of two posts per person per main topic per day.
In reading the Main List in the last few weeks you can see how far that
idea went. There are the inevitable few who must be in the center of
every aspect of Nova Roma because they have no other life, and there are
the few who cannot stand any regulation in thier lives whatsoever, and
are willing to throw all into the pot together simply to say that the
individual rules!!!!

There are the psuedo-politicians, the people who think that they can
talk their way into a position of responsibility without dirtying thier
hands with the micronation's work to be done, there are the militarists
and the art lovers, and the religio believers all of which must have
thier day in the sun, and to insure a balanced usage of an increasingly
large involvement of opinions, informaton, appeals, and explanation
moderation is necessry, again in my humble opinion.

List Moderation is a difficult job, and one which is unrewarding and is
generally very difficult to manage fairly because everyone has a
different view of the moderation necessary and why that moderation
should apply to them when they feel that what they have to say is more
important than what others want to put up with. There is also the
aspect that they believe that they can insult the individuals moderating
as well as the micronation as a whole. That cannot be allowed, if we
are to attract the kind of people that we want, and have them become
active in our micronation. Most reasonable people understand this idea,
those who have thier own agenda will not, of course. It is, however,
and most unfortunately so, proven to be a necessity over the long haul.

You are correct, however, that List Moderation might not be necssary if
everyone on the list took the following ideas into account:

--Be sure that your posts to another, are just as polite as you would
want to recieve;

--Limit your posts to the Main List to two posts a day--if you feel the
need to expound further, do it off list, or on another list--give others
a chance to be heard without the crowding of the micronations mailboxes
with the , I'm Right, No You're Not!, I'm sorry!, Are you really??
"clack " that is so prevelant here;

--Keep a Civil Tone to your messages, and Colored Language has no place
on the Main List;

--The international language presently in use diplomatically and
financially in this present period in English. At one time it was
French, and at an even earlier time it was Latin. For now it is
English, so for the greatest amount of people to understand your
message, post in English or your native language with a English
translation. (I get on the average four or five advertisements a week
in Spanish, Italian , German , French etc, and without effective
translation they are useless both to me and to them);

--Be aware that if your message sounds at all like it will offend---it
will;

--Messages should never be written in anger, and messages which are
critical should be held over night and reconsidered the next day before
sending them.

--In short, have a little thought for the needs and desires of others.

Moderation on this Main List, has the same purpose as a traffic light,
----- to insure that everybody gets thier chance to go!!!!!!

Respectfully;
Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary




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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Censorship
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Wed, 27 Jun 2001 09:43:27 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, jmath669642reng@w... wrote:
> Citizen Gaius Marcius Coriolanus;
>
> During the Consulship of Quintus Fabius Maximus and myself, the Main
> List was unmoderated for a time, and both Consuls hoped to keep it that
> way. However, the list became more and more unmanagable because of the
> odd postings here and the things that were being said--so that the
> Consul's were finally overrulled by the NR Citizens, and the List was
> again moderated.
>
> Since that time the List Moderator(s) have done an excellent job of
> keeping the list clear of foul language, posts which cannot be
> understood by all Nova Romans, and list behavior which is not
> appropriate. There are still those who feel that the Main List is for
> them and for them only, and that they can say anything, in any way that
> they wish here. Those people would turn the Main List into another
> "Back Alley" where anything goes, and it may be said in any way, and the
> weakest stomach to the wall. Such is not my view of Nova Roma or it's
> Main List.
>
> The problem, of course, with that view is that we in Nova Roma are
> trying to attract intelligent, useful people to the micronation who do
> not desire to be insulted by harsh language or do not understand what is
> going on in exotic languages without meaningful translations or be
> verbally attacked by fanatic religious lurkers, all of which has been
> attempted or accomplished prior to this discusson.
>
> Even now the micronation faces the consideration of slowing a few people
> down so that the Main List provides an equal chance for everyone. Many
> people have commented about thier loss of interest in the Main List
> because of the vast amount of political discussion that is carried on
> here by a relative few. These people say if you don't like it turn it
> off, but others say there is no need for any person to make five posts a
> day on any one topic when two well thought out posts are sufficient.
> There was at one time a strong suggestion by a Main List Moderator that
> there should be a limit of two posts per person per main topic per day.
> In reading the Main List in the last few weeks you can see how far that
> idea went. There are the inevitable few who must be in the center of
> every aspect of Nova Roma because they have no other life, and there are
> the few who cannot stand any regulation in thier lives whatsoever, and
> are willing to throw all into the pot together simply to say that the
> individual rules!!!!
>
> There are the psuedo-politicians, the people who think that they can
> talk their way into a position of responsibility without dirtying thier
> hands with the micronation's work to be done, there are the militarists
> and the art lovers, and the religio believers all of which must have
> thier day in the sun, and to insure a balanced usage of an increasingly
> large involvement of opinions, informaton, appeals, and explanation
> moderation is necessry, again in my humble opinion.
>
> List Moderation is a difficult job, and one which is unrewarding and is
> generally very difficult to manage fairly because everyone has a
> different view of the moderation necessary and why that moderation
> should apply to them when they feel that what they have to say is more
> important than what others want to put up with. There is also the
> aspect that they believe that they can insult the individuals moderating
> as well as the micronation as a whole. That cannot be allowed, if we
> are to attract the kind of people that we want, and have them become
> active in our micronation. Most reasonable people understand this idea,
> those who have thier own agenda will not, of course. It is, however,
> and most unfortunately so, proven to be a necessity over the long haul.
>
> You are correct, however, that List Moderation might not be necssary if
> everyone on the list took the following ideas into account:
>
> --Be sure that your posts to another, are just as polite as you would
> want to recieve;
>
> --Limit your posts to the Main List to two posts a day--if you feel the
> need to expound further, do it off list, or on another list--give others
> a chance to be heard without the crowding of the micronations mailboxes
> with the , I'm Right, No You're Not!, I'm sorry!, Are you really??
> "clack " that is so prevelant here;
>
> --Keep a Civil Tone to your messages, and Colored Language has no place
> on the Main List;
>
> --The international language presently in use diplomatically and
> financially in this present period in English. At one time it was
> French, and at an even earlier time it was Latin. For now it is
> English, so for the greatest amount of people to understand your
> message, post in English or your native language with a English
> translation. (I get on the average four or five advertisements a week
> in Spanish, Italian , German , French etc, and without effective
> translation they are useless both to me and to them);
>
> --Be aware that if your message sounds at all like it will offend---it
> will;
>
> --Messages should never be written in anger, and messages which are
> critical should be held over night and reconsidered the next day before
> sending them.
>
> --In short, have a little thought for the needs and desires of others.
>
> Moderation on this Main List, has the same purpose as a traffic light,
> ----- to insure that everybody gets thier chance to go!!!!!!
>
> Respectfully;
> Marcus Audens
>
> Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
>
>

Salve,

There is another aspect of list moderation. Due to some court
decessions in the US and the UK, Nova Roma can be sued if someone
posts a slanderous post on this list. Moderation decreases the danger
of this happening.

As for the idea of limiting posts, there are times when it's nessacary
to make more than two posts, such as when a proposed lex is being
discussed. Ideas flow back and forth allowing us to arrive at a lex
that is openly crafted rather than slung togather by a few insiders
off list. There are times when a citizen may make a proposal and have
several posts asking a question about his idea. Should he limit
himself to only replying to one of these posts?

I would agree that some of our citizens need to limit the number of
NEGATIVE posts they make. If you wish to post at least try to
introduce a new idea, or a comprimise rather than rehashing the same
old argument over and over.

Vale,
L. Sicinius Drusus




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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Censorship & libel
From:	"Vaughan, Michael ST" <Michael.Vaughan@-------->
Date:	Wed, 27 Jun 2001 11:10:33 +0100

Lucius Sicinius Drusus wrote:
>There is another aspect of list moderation. Due to some court
>decessions in the US and the UK, Nova Roma can be sued if someone
>posts a slanderous post on this list. Moderation decreases the danger
>of this happening.

I am not a lawyer, but... care needs to be taken when making assumptions
such as that. Implying the moderators have a responsibility for eliminating
libellous postings from the main list might also imply a liability for any
mod-approved postings that were later found to be libellous. Asking the
hard-working moderators to accurately judge all messages they scrutinise for
libellous content is probably unreasonable.

-michael E
--
"Do you see this thimble? I keep my morale in it." -- T. Dilbertus Cubicalus

Senatus Populusque Romanus 2754 AUC


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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Xtreme Xtians
From:	ksterne@--------
Date:	Wed, 27 Jun 2001 13:00:43 -0000

Salvete,

I am a Christian (Roman Catholic) and so certainly have nothing
against them. I think the views expressed by Lucius Sicinius on all
beliefs being different sides of one divinity is elegant and the
proper attitude.

But I also agree that there are some groups that are at least as
radical with regard to their supposed "Christianity" as the Talaban.
Many of these people would condemn me because I'm Catholic (a Mary
worshiper). If anyone doubts how hateful and ignorant some of these
folks are, just follow this link and read some of the posts:

http://pub49.ezboard.com/btruechristiansunite

I do not mean to sound so serious. These people are not the
mainstream, but they are out there.

Valete,
Gaius Popillius Laenas





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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Questions for all
From:	"yquere@--------"<yquere@-------->
Date:	Wed, 27 Jun 2001 17:39:27 +0200

Salvete Omnes

Actually, Crassus was not a financial wizard, he was part
of the elite, which had to deal with the financial sphere
to invest and use his huge fortune like some of the
Patrician order and Equestrian order. He was involved in
complicated financial operations, which was not as
developped as today of course and which concerned mainly
borrowing and lending money operations, investment in
small commercial businesses: no wizardry at all. The
social and political role of finance was not so
developped in Antique Roma.

The financial wizards,if there are, were mostly
Argentarii (money lenders)or Coactores Argentarii (money
lenders and brokers), and later Nummularii : they were
professional at dealing with money transactions, mostly
for commercial and consumerist purposes. Even the notion
of interest rate (usura) was not very develloped.

The elite was involved in such transactions because they
had the money to be lended, sometimes via specialized
slaves (sometimes Imperial slaves). These brokers were
known as feneratores. But there were feneratores at any
level of society.

the Tabulae Murecinae, discovered near Pompeď in 1959,
indicate that a plebeian gens, the Sulpicii, were having
a quite developped activity of fenerator (sometimes with
other feneratrix), and coactor argentarii.

For more information on these passionating subject, I
invite you to read the following french author:

Jean Andreau
"Banque et affaires dans le monde romain"
Points Histoire - 2001
or the english original version
"Banking and Business in the Roman World" Cambridge
Universtity press - 1999

Valete Optime
Ianus Querius Armoricus Lutecio




> ---------- Initial message -----------
>
> From : "Pompeia Cornelia Strabo"
<scriba_forum@-------->
> To : novaroma@--------
> Cc :
> Date : Wed, 27 Jun 2001 02:29:42 -0000
> Subject : Re: [novaroma] Questions for all
>
> Salve Nerva:
>
> Hmm, I'll have to think about this further, but right
off the top of my
> head, Marcus Lucinius Crassus,was a financial wizard.
He was in the first
> Triumvirate, as you likely recall, with Caesar and
Pompeius.
>
> I'll put my thinking cap on for other stuff.
>
> Vale,
> Po
>
>
> >From: gcassiusnerva@--------
> >Reply-To: novaroma@--------
> >To: novaroma@--------
> >Subject: [novaroma] Questions for all
> >Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 21:59:45 EDT
> >
> >Salvete,
> >
> > I need some names of actual historical Roman
engineers and financial
> >wizards, diplomatic types and scientists/explorers.
If you know of any,
> >please post these names with the occupation they are
most known for.
> >
> >Nerva
> >
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Xtreme Xtians
From:	"Pompeia Cornelia Strabo" <scriba_forum@-------->
Date:	Wed, 27 Jun 2001 17:15:26 -0000

>From: ksterne@--------
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: novaroma@--------
>Subject: [novaroma] Re: Xtreme Xtians
>Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 13:00:43 -0000
>
>Salvete,
>
>I am a Christian (Roman Catholic) and so certainly have nothing
>against them. I think the views expressed by Lucius Sicinius on all
>beliefs being different sides of one divinity is elegant and the
>proper attitude.

Pompeia: That's my background too and I share your analysis of Druse's
post. Ave Druse!!
>
>But I also agree that there are some groups that are at least as
>radical with regard to their supposed "Christianity" as the Talaban.
>Many of these people would condemn me because I'm Catholic (a Mary
>worshiper). If anyone doubts how hateful and ignorant some of these
>folks are, just follow this link and read some of the posts:


>
>http://pub49.ezboard.com/btruechristiansunite

Pompeia: I had a peak........hmm bizarre. It sounds by the handful of
posts I read that they absolutely no use for anyone who doesn't fit into
their mold of stiffling manifestos. Poor Jesus...I don't think he'd even be
welcome there! :)

I read the profile of one of the Reverends (probably a self-proclaimed
Reverend). He enjoys shooting and collecting guns. I thought that was kind
of cute.

And they will censor anything they don't want to appear in their private
forum, they will tell you that. A "classic" case to me, of extremist
censorship is where one of the posts was apparently written in British
English, and the moderator replied "British English is not allowed on this
Godly American Board"....... The moderator rewrote the post in American
grammar. How ridiculous.


There are many sects of extreme Muslims throughout Canada and the U.S. too.
Heck, the Iran supreme court recently upheld the sentence of death by
stoning. About a month ago, a woman was stoned to death for being in a
porno flick. I cried when I read that. Poor dolly. And, the flip side of
that is, to prove her guilty, the court would have to had looked at the
darned thing too, no? And, ah yes, the Talaban.

My point? Oh, yes, my point :).........

As I've said before, and as others have said,I get frightened at the notion
of letting minors into NR without some real carved in stone proof of
parental consent. Groups like this would have a hayday with us. We will be
publicly accused of brainwashing, cultisms and the like. Plus there may be
lawsuits. Nova Roma deserves better.



For those in Europe who have never been exposed to extremist fanatical
"Christianity", I advise you to visit the URL given in this post. You will
receive quite an education, and you may understand our apprehensions.




Bene valete,
Pompeia






>
>I do not mean to sound so serious. These people are not the
>mainstream, but they are out there.
>
>Valete,
>Gaius Popillius Laenas
>
>

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Censorship & libel
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@-------->
Date:	Wed, 27 Jun 2001 11:49:43 -0700

Ave,

But it shows we are taking due care and are taking reasonable steps.
That goes a long way in court.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

"Vaughan, Michael ST" wrote:
>
> Lucius Sicinius Drusus wrote:
> >There is another aspect of list moderation. Due to some court
> >decessions in the US and the UK, Nova Roma can be sued if someone
> >posts a slanderous post on this list. Moderation decreases the danger
> >of this happening.
>
> I am not a lawyer, but... care needs to be taken when making
> assumptions
> such as that. Implying the moderators have a responsibility for
> eliminating
> libellous postings from the main list might also imply a liability for
> any
> mod-approved postings that were later found to be libellous. Asking
> the
> hard-working moderators to accurately judge all messages they
> scrutinise for
> libellous content is probably unreasonable.
>
> -michael E
> --
> "Do you see this thimble? I keep my morale in it." -- T. Dilbertus
> Cubicalus
>
> Senatus Populusque Romanus 2754 AUC
>
> ***********************************************************************
> Confidentiality: This e-mail and its attachments are intended for the
> above named recipient(s) only and may be confidential and/or
> privileged. If they have come to you in error you must take no action
> based on them, nor must you copy or disclose them or any part of their
>
> contents to any person or organisation; please reply to this e-mail
> and highlight the error immediately and delete this e-mail and its
> attachments from your computer system.
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> knowledge that Internet e-mail is not a 100% secure communications
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Subject:	[novaroma] list moderation
From:	Carmen Pehnec <europamoon7@-------->
Date:	Wed, 27 Jun 2001 11:49:31 -0700 (PDT)

Avete Omnes,

I just read Marcus Audens' email and was very
impressed by what he said. I agree that some
moderation is necessary to keep the list at a certain
level of dignity. Isn't dignity, after all, one of
the Roman virtues? We would not be upholding our true
intentions if we compromised for those few who refuse
to follow the very things we aspire to. Since the
moderation of this list was agreed on by the civis why
is the subject even open for discussion? We have to
set an example and this mission is thwarted if we
allow individuals to simply use this list to vent
their frustrations. Structure means rules and
regulations which are in every aspect of life. We can
alter this structure but never eliminate it, for this
then destroys what is good for the majority to become
what is good only for the few. That is not the
Republican way. If it's anarchy you desire please go
elsewhere. There are other lists out there that will
accommodate you.

Valete,

Pompeia Antonia Caesar

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Xtreme Xtians
From:	margali <margali@-------->
Date:	Wed, 27 Jun 2001 15:46:04 -0400

Not just christianity, we have to worry about the
pedophil-ophobes, after all - greeks and romans practiced sex
with male and female child slaves. God save us if they decide
that we want to practice slavery and pedophilia because the
romans did it !

I actually was asked to join a coven who thought that because I
was pagan, I was a wiccan too. I couldn't wrap my poor little
mind around their belief that Rob and I would be getting a
divorce any minute because 'mixed' marriages never work out [he
is episcopalian. So far it has been 12 years. I don't think it is
going to change any time soon!] They didn't like it when I told
them I didn't practice 'magic' and that rob wasn't just my
husband but my best friend and I had nothing against
christianity.
I wonder what they would have thought if I had told them about
Matthew - we have an agreement, I won't feed him to the lions and
he won't burn me at the stake ;-)
margali



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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Xtreme Xtians
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Wed, 27 Jun 2001 22:19:06 +0200

Salve Pompeia et alii,

I clearly remember the first case of such an insane fanatic I met. I used to
think that only older people here (the usual chruch going folks) could be so
fanatic, but it was just a girl as old I was from the US. At my mere notion
of saying "oh, and I am an atheist" (was 4 years ago), she claims to have
burst out in tears and from that point on considered me damned, and destined
for hell. Now I might say: too bad darling, I already live in hell. Gnarf
gnarf. Ahem.

Vale bene!
Draco




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Xtreme Xtians
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Wed, 27 Jun 2001 15:37:11 -0500 (CDT)

Salve Draco,

> Now I might say: too bad darling, I already live in hell. Gnarf
> gnarf. Ahem.

Well, your country does produce beers called "Lucifer" and "Duvel"...

(both of which are excellent)

Vale, O.

--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Tribune's Opinion on Censorship
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Wed, 27 Jun 2001 14:14:25 -0700 (PDT)

Salve, Tribune Labiene.

--- Fortunatus <labienus@--------> wrote:
> Salve Gnai Salix
>
> > Thank you for explaining this situation for me. I do understand
> your
> > point of view; however, I think we should always try to get rid of
> > our national bias when handling issues in an international
> community
> > like Nova Roma. I guess it is the source of most misunderstaindings
> > here, so we should try to avoid it.
>
> I agree with you, and I attempt to avoid the error as much as I can.
> However, I admit that I am quite fallible, and that self-inspection
> is a
> very difficult endeavor. It is easy to fool oneself into believing
> that
> one is unbiased if one is not careful, and cultural biases and social
> pressure brought about by the cultural biases of others can be very
> subtle influences. Indeed, at lease one psychologist has suggested
> that
> the most common outcome of the process known as cognitive dissonance
> is
> that we modify our opinions to fit the actions we wish to take due to
> such subtle pressures and biases. All too often, this is a truism.

A nice way to express it. Thank you.

> > Having said this, I have to say that I am really sorry for maybe
> > presenting the impression of always disagreeing with you. I hope
> > you and everybody is aware that this is not the case; I agree with
> > you in many issues.
>
> I have no problem with the kinds of disagreements you and I seem to
> have. They lead to better thinking and a richer exchange of ideas.
> By
> all means continue to disagree with me in such a manner.

Thank you very much. I will try to disagree with you any time it is
reasonable to do so :-).


=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Xtreme Xtians
From:	"Jeroen Meuleman" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Wed, 27 Jun 2001 23:23:09 +0200

Ave O.

>
> > Now I might say: too bad darling, I already live in hell. Gnarf
> > gnarf. Ahem.
>
> Well, your country does produce beers called "Lucifer" and "Duvel"...
>
> (both of which are excellent)
>

LOL, well, that's correct. I like Duvel as well, by the way.

Vale bene,
Draco




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Subject:	[novaroma] Canada Oreintalis Website
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Wed, 27 Jun 2001 18:40:25 -0400

Salvete cives et amici,

Doing my duty as Retarius Officium of Canada Oreintalis provincia, I have
created an extension to the provincial website. The new area is dedicated to
educating the citizens of the new provincial deities. Any comments are
welcomed and appreciated.

To visit the provincial website divert your browser to the fallowing URL:
http://www.freehost.nu/members/canorien

"Quamquam cupido sis delictum ab sui crebro suum mater ab vitualis"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Canada Orientalis Provincia
www.freehost.nu/members/canorien
--

Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/




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