| Subject: |
[novaroma] In Absentia |
| From: |
=?iso-8859-1?q?Jerry=20Anguston?= <gaiussentius@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:54:34 +1000 (EST) |
|
Salvete omnes,
This is just a quick message to state that I will be
absent for the next three to five weeks, as I will be
taking a trip (almost a pilgrimage, I guess you could
say) to Europe and in particular Rome.
If anyone wants to get into contact with me so that I
can know that they have contacted me, could they
please address their e-mails to dougies@--------
Valete bene omnes,
Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura
Legatus Australia Medius
Sacerdos Mars Invictus
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] In Absentia |
| From: |
"Raina Faolan" <GuruPoet@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 29 Jun 2001 02:36:30 -0400 |
|
Salve,
Have a safe trip amice, and remember 'digest mode'.
Vale Bene,
Aeternia
>From: Jerry Anguston <gaiussentius@-------->
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: novaroma@--------
>Subject: [novaroma] In Absentia
>Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:54:34 +1000 (EST)
>
>Salvete omnes,
>
>This is just a quick message to state that I will be
>absent for the next three to five weeks, as I will be
>taking a trip (almost a pilgrimage, I guess you could
>say) to Europe and in particular Rome.
>
>If anyone wants to get into contact with me so that I
>can know that they have contacted me, could they
>please address their e-mails to dougies@--------
>
>Valete bene omnes,
>
>Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura
>
>Legatus Australia Medius
>Sacerdos Mars Invictus
>
>_____________________________________________________________________________
>http://messenger.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger
>- Voice chat, mail alerts, stock quotes and favourite news and lots more!
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Greetings from a New citizen - Byzantine Empire question. |
| From: |
radams36@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:44:16 -0000 |
|
Hail, fellow citizens!
I am new to Nova Roma, making my first post, and thought I'd solicit
some opinions.
Gibbon describes the Byzantine Empire as a 'degenerate appendage' of
the Roman Empire. Of course, we all know the Eastern Roman
Empire/Western Roman Empire separation was extremely oversimplified
in our public school education (at least, those of us who attended
public school), and that the Byzantines called themselves Romans,
thought of themselves as Romans, and were paid tribute by the
barbarian Italian kings that antedated the fall of Rome.
Given all that, the distinction made by Gibbon seems to have been
accepted almost without question by most historians. My personal
opinion is that the original Roman Empire fell when Constantine XI
fell in battle with the Ottomans, not before. You could make a case
that Rome fell when Theodoric overran the city, when the Empire was
first divided, when Charlemagne was crowned, or when the Latin Empire
temporarily ended the Byzantine rule in Constantinople. All things
considered, I feel that the tradition of Rome, although altered and
evolving through the centuries, continued through Byzantium. Anyone
have strong feelings about this, one way or another?
On a side note, the 'degenerate appendage' comment makes me think
Gibbon disliked the Byzantine Empire, although he certainly wrote
plenty about it. Maybe he was just disgusted with the petty religious
and political skirmishes that marked much of its history.
Thanks for listening or responding,
Regimus Palaeologus
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Greetings from a New citizen - Byzantine Empire question. |
| From: |
QFabiusMaxmi@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 29 Jun 2001 15:31:54 EDT |
|
In a message dated 6/29/2001 12:01:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
radams36@-------- writes:
> Gibbon describes the Byzantine Empire as a 'degenerate appendage' of
> the Roman Empire.
Salvete
As we all know, Gibbons was trying to draw a comparison between his Empire of
Great Britain and the Roman Empire. As the Byzantine was in a real aspect
closer to his own (A trade dominated power, with a superior navy and small
army with no loyalty to the Pope.) it made sense for Gibbon to sneer at the
Byzantine Oriental style of court and customs. The ironic thing for me is
without Byzantium preservation, many of the texts in the original language of
Latin or Greek he was reading from would not have existed. And even more
ironically many more were lost when Constantinople was sacked during the
Fourth Crusade by West that he was never able to read.
> Given all that, the distinction made by Gibbon seems to have been
> accepted almost without question by most historians. My personal
> opinion is that the original Roman Empire fell when Constantine XI
> fell in battle with the Ottomans, not before.
I really believe (wrote a paper on this, in fact) that the empire fell when
the old gods abandoned Rome. However, I'd say the New Roman Empire was
finished after the Fourth Crusade. Why? Because the Latins destabilized the
area, and allowed the empire to break up into principalities much like what
happened to Rome in the 4th Century which spelled its own downfall. The
Ottoman Turks just put the corpse out of its misery in 1453.
As for Rome itself, once the aqueduct system was destroyed, the city could
longer sustain itself. Without the strong symbol of Empire, disintegration
was a matter of time.
Valete
Q Fabius Maximus
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Greetings from a New citizen - Byzantine Empire question. |
| From: |
radams36@-------- |
| Date: |
Fri, 29 Jun 2001 22:11:34 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, QFabiusMaxmi@a... wrote:
> As the Byzantine was in a real aspect
> closer to his own (A trade dominated power, with a superior navy
and small
> army with no loyalty to the Pope.) it made sense for Gibbon to
sneer at the
> Byzantine Oriental style of court and customs.
Thanks for the perspective - I believe you have a good point.
The ironic thing for me is
> without Byzantium preservation, many of the texts in the original
language of
> Latin or Greek he was reading from would not have existed. And
even more
> ironically many more were lost when Constantinople was sacked
during the
> Fourth Crusade by West that he was never able to read.
I still regard the sack of Constantinople as one of the more shameful
and disgraceful acts of history. I imagine Dante would have had a
special circle of Hell for the Fourth Crusaders, if he'd written The
Inferno a bit later.
>
> > Given all that, the distinction made by Gibbon seems to have been
> > accepted almost without question by most historians. My personal
> > opinion is that the original Roman Empire fell when Constantine
XI
> > fell in battle with the Ottomans, not before.
>
> I really believe (wrote a paper on this, in fact) that the empire
fell when
> the old gods abandoned Rome. However, I'd say the New Roman Empire
was
> finished after the Fourth Crusade. Why? Because the Latins
destabilized the
> area, and allowed the empire to break up into principalities much
like what
> happened to Rome in the 4th Century which spelled its own
downfall. The
> Ottoman Turks just put the corpse out of its misery in 1453.
Also an interesting point, Fabius. I think it all depends on how you
define the Byzantine Empire (if you even make the distinction from
the Roman Empire). Was it inherently in Byzantium proper? Then the
Latin Empire finished it. There's no inherent right or wrong answer,
IMHO. Maybe it's sentimental, but the idea that the Empire died in
the person of Constantine XI himself, taking up arms and fighting to
the bitter end, seems compelling to me.
Thanks for the input!
Regimus Palaeologus
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] new |
| From: |
"Julie & Lawrence Brooks" <anubis@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 29 Jun 2001 18:11:53 -0400 |
|
Greetings all,
My husband and I have just become new members of Nova Roma. Our involvement
with the Roman era so far has been through some friends and our business.
We live in Maine, have 5 acres and 2 dogs. My husband works for the Post
Office but will soon be retiring to work with me full-time in our own
business. I am also an anthropology/archaeology major at the University of
Southern Maine, hopefully graduating at the end of next May.
We got to meet some lovely people at Roman Days a few weeks ago, which was a
great time. I have some pictures from Roman Days out on our site at
http://www.lawrensnest.com/RomanDays.html if anyone would like to see them.
We just picked up a book and a tape on Latin today, so hopefully soon we
will be able to figure out some of the Latin sayings and names that we see
on the list.
Vale,
Varia Cassia
Laurencius Cassius
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