| Subject: |
[novaroma] To all new citizens |
| From: |
Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 29 Jun 2001 21:05:43 -0400 |
|
Salvete cives novus,
I wish to extend my personal greetings to all who recently received
citizenship to the res publica Nova Roma. May the sprint of our ancestors
inspire you.
Varia and Laurenci Cassi I was impressed with your pictures of Roman Days. I
unfortunately was unable to attend. Although judging by your pictures and
what others said, it looks like it's definitely a superb event. I recommend
you submit a copy of your pictures to the consuls to be posted up on
novaroma.org.
My best wishes to all the new cives. Donec Infra,
"Quamquam cupido sis delictum ab sui crebro suum mater ab vitualis"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"
--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Canada Orientalis Provincia
www.freehost.nu/members/canorien
--
Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Greetings from a New citizen - Byzantine Empire question. |
| From: |
Michel Loos <loos@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 29 Jun 2001 17:39:15 -0300 |
|
QFabiusMaxmi@-------- wrote:
>
> In a message dated 6/29/2001 12:01:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> radams36@-------- writes:
>
> > Gibbon describes the Byzantine Empire as a 'degenerate appendage' of
> > the Roman Empire.
> Salvete
> As we all know, Gibbons was trying to draw a comparison between his Empire of
> Great Britain and the Roman Empire. As the Byzantine was in a real aspect
> closer to his own (A trade dominated power, with a superior navy and small
> army with no loyalty to the Pope.) it made sense for Gibbon to sneer at the
> Byzantine Oriental style of court and customs. The ironic thing for me is
> without Byzantium preservation, many of the texts in the original language of
> Latin or Greek he was reading from would not have existed. And even more
> ironically many more were lost when Constantinople was sacked during the
> Fourth Crusade by West that he was never able to read.
>
> > Given all that, the distinction made by Gibbon seems to have been
> > accepted almost without question by most historians. My personal
> > opinion is that the original Roman Empire fell when Constantine XI
> > fell in battle with the Ottomans, not before.
>
> I really believe (wrote a paper on this, in fact) that the empire fell when
> the old gods abandoned Rome.
Salvete,
I agree with you, old Rome fell when the Victory Altar was retired from
the senate (under Theodosus I think).
> However, I'd say the New Roman Empire was
> finished after the Fourth Crusade. Why? Because the Latins destabilized the
> area, and allowed the empire to break up into principalities much like what
> happened to Rome in the 4th Century which spelled its own downfall. The
> Ottoman Turks just put the corpse out of its misery in 1453.
>
Some Roman principalities survived some decades on the Black Sea and in
Epirus.
The last was Trebizond.
Also in many ways the Russian Empire proclamed to continue Rome/Byzance
and in the West the Roman Empire of germanic people continued up to the
beginning of the 19th century.
>
> As for Rome itself, once the aqueduct system was destroyed, the city could
> longer sustain itself.
Just remembering the aqueducts were destroyed by the Byzantines during
the reconquest of Justinian. Before that, culturally people leaving
under Ostrogoth rule were still Romans (like Boetius).
Vale,
Manius Villius Limitanus
> Without the strong symbol of Empire, disintegration
> was a matter of time.
>
> Valete
> Q Fabius Maximus
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Xtreme Xtians |
| From: |
"Sokarus Apollonius Callias" <hadescallias@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 27 Jun 2001 19:59:35 +0200 |
|
i have nothing against christians. i just don't wanna see history repeat itself that we will be persecuted by fanatic freaks. And these guys can come from all religions even from within Nova Roma. don't get paranoid on me here.
----- Oorspronkelijk bericht -----
Van: ksterne@--------
Aan: novaroma@--------
Verzonden: woensdag 27 juni 2001 15:00
Onderwerp: [novaroma] Re: Xtreme Xtians
Salvete,
I am a Christian (Roman Catholic) and so certainly have nothing
against them. I think the views expressed by Lucius Sicinius on all
beliefs being different sides of one divinity is elegant and the
proper attitude.
But I also agree that there are some groups that are at least as
radical with regard to their supposed "Christianity" as the Talaban.
Many of these people would condemn me because I'm Catholic (a Mary
worshiper). If anyone doubts how hateful and ignorant some of these
folks are, just follow this link and read some of the posts:
http://pub49.ezboard.com/btruechristiansunite
I do not mean to sound so serious. These people are not the
mainstream, but they are out there.
Valete,
Gaius Popillius Laenas
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] June 28, 2001---A Sad Day |
| From: |
gcassiusnerva@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 30 Jun 2001 00:52:41 EDT |
|
I am sad to report that the world lost a treasure. The peripatetic
{Aristolean} philosopher, Mortimer J. Adler, has died at the age of 98.
Dr. Adler's motto was "philosophy is everybody's business", and his life
was dedicated to liberal education for all. He was an editor of Great Books
of the Western World, an editor in chief of the Encyclopedia Britannica, and
the founder {with Max Weismann} of the Center for the Study of the Great
Ideas. He wrote many books, a few of which I had the pleasure of reading,
especially the popular 'Aristotle for Everybody'.
Dr. Adler's work encouraged me to finally stop procrastinating and take
up the Great Books for myself. And it is oddly coincidental he died as I was
reading Plato's 'Phaedo'.
"Unlike the body, the mind can continue to grow until death overtakes
us".
Mortimer J.
Adler, 1902-2001
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] June 28, 2001---A Sad Day |
| From: |
"Pompeia Cornelia Strabo" <scriba_forum@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 30 Jun 2001 05:32:10 -0000 |
|
Salvete Nerva et alii:
I mourn the death of such a learned and thought-provoking man.
But, by the same thought, I must celebrate his life, which is probably what
he would rather see me do, nonne?
Pompeia Cornelia
>From: gcassiusnerva@--------
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: novaroma@--------
>Subject: [novaroma] June 28, 2001---A Sad Day
>Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 00:52:41 EDT
>
> I am sad to report that the world lost a treasure. The peripatetic
>{Aristolean} philosopher, Mortimer J. Adler, has died at the age of 98.
>
> Dr. Adler's motto was "philosophy is everybody's business", and his
>life
>was dedicated to liberal education for all. He was an editor of Great
>Books
>of the Western World, an editor in chief of the Encyclopedia Britannica,
>and
>the founder {with Max Weismann} of the Center for the Study of the Great
>Ideas. He wrote many books, a few of which I had the pleasure of reading,
>especially the popular 'Aristotle for Everybody'.
>
> Dr. Adler's work encouraged me to finally stop procrastinating and
>take
>up the Great Books for myself. And it is oddly coincidental he died as I
>was
>reading Plato's 'Phaedo'.
>
> "Unlike the body, the mind can continue to grow until death overtakes
>us".
>
> Mortimer
>J.
>Adler, 1902-2001
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Abandonment by the Gods -was Byzantine Empire question. |
| From: |
CmndrZil@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 30 Jun 2001 01:41:51 EDT |
|
Salve,
Q Fabius Maximus got my attention with:
>I really believe (wrote a paper on this, in fact) that the empire fell
>when
>the old gods abandoned Rome.
I missed something. When did that happen? Please, elaborate.
Tarquinia Euphemia
(changed headings, seemed to be a drifting point...)
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Xtreme Xtians |
| From: |
"Pompeia Cornelia Strabo" <scriba_forum@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 30 Jun 2001 06:17:40 -0000 |
|
Salve Apolloni:
I don't think we have to worry about such extremists (regardless of their
faith) wanting to be a part of Nova Roma. Even within the Religio itself
there are variations in interpretation, and these are respected, and the
common elements of the practise are celebrated.
Not so with extremists and fundamentalist thinkers. They are unable to
empathize with the thoughts and feelings of others, so they would find Nova
Roma an alien place. They cannot see past the end of their own nose, so to
speak.
What I worry about most, and other magistrates and citizens more learned
than I have also said, is their kids possibly becoming citizens of NR. We
have to guard our immigration policies carefully with respect to letting
minors into Nova Roma, to wit, those under age 18. Should we in error admit
a minor of one of these fanatical groups , they could make serious trouble
for us, both publicity-wise and legally. We would be labeled cultists,
brainwashers, Ranch Davidians types, et al. The potential is there. And the
United States, the country in which we are incorporated is quite litigous,
by judicial nature.
A *fundamental* truth, which *fundamentalists* cannot grasp, is that there
are approx. 6 billion people in the world, who couldn't possibly agree
always about all the same things, all the time. They maintain a "my way or
the highway" attitude, based on their own self-righteous interpretations.
They defy, in their expectations of themselves and the rest of us, the
principles of free will, which is divinely ordained (by God and/or the Gods
and Goddesses)......otherwise, wouldn't we be in a heck of a pile of trouble
as a race?
I do not argue with some of the very rigid *Bible believing* fanatics, or
fundamentalist Muslims. I would have to rely heavily on the bible as a basis
for backing up my arguments , and I doubt any of them have really read
it.....just been "told" what it says, so what's the point? They have missed
the point in a large number of cases....I do not feel I have to "account" to
them in any way., which is how some of them will make you feel.....if you
let them :)
Nova Roma deserves better than to be terrorized by even one of the many
fundamentalist/militant/fanatical groups in North America.
It is fine to want to grow in numbers as a micronation. But, recall, to
grow, you and I started with *baby steps*. Our res publica should do the
same, IMHO, to grow steadfastly and solidly.
I harbour no illwill against anyone, but I must speak up when I see
potential danger to Nova Roma, and its *fundamentally* and *divinely*
blessed freedom to exist as a micronation.
Bene valete,
Pompeia Cornelia
Propraetrix, pro temp
Canada Orientalis Provincia
NOVA ROMA
>From: "Sokarus Apollonius Callias" <hadescallias@-------->
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: <novaroma@-------->
>Subject: Re: [novaroma] Re: Xtreme Xtians
>Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 19:59:35 +0200
>
>i have nothing against christians. i just don't wanna see history repeat
>itself that we will be persecuted by fanatic freaks. And these guys can
>come from all religions even from within Nova Roma. don't get paranoid on
>me here.
> ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht -----
> Van: ksterne@--------
> Aan: novaroma@--------
> Verzonden: woensdag 27 juni 2001 15:00
> Onderwerp: [novaroma] Re: Xtreme Xtians
>
>
> Salvete,
>
> I am a Christian (Roman Catholic) and so certainly have nothing
> against them. I think the views expressed by Lucius Sicinius on all
> beliefs being different sides of one divinity is elegant and the
> proper attitude.
>
> But I also agree that there are some groups that are at least as
> radical with regard to their supposed "Christianity" as the Talaban.
> Many of these people would condemn me because I'm Catholic (a Mary
> worshiper). If anyone doubts how hateful and ignorant some of these
> folks are, just follow this link and read some of the posts:
>
> http://pub49.ezboard.com/btruechristiansunite
>
> I do not mean to sound so serious. These people are not the
> mainstream, but they are out there.
>
> Valete,
> Gaius Popillius Laenas
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Abandonment by the Gods -was Byzantine Empire question. |
| From: |
"Pompeia Cornelia Strabo" <scriba_forum@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 30 Jun 2001 06:29:25 -0000 |
|
Salve:
I would be most interested in reading this paper too (hint, hint)!!
Pompeia
>From: CmndrZil@--------
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: novaroma@--------
>Subject: [novaroma] Abandonment by the Gods -was Byzantine Empire question.
>Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 01:41:51 EDT
>
>Salve,
>
>Q Fabius Maximus got my attention with:
>
> >I really believe (wrote a paper on this, in fact) that the empire fell
> >when
> >the old gods abandoned Rome.
>
>I missed something. When did that happen? Please, elaborate.
>
>Tarquinia Euphemia
>(changed headings, seemed to be a drifting point...)
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Xtreme Xtians |
| From: |
"Aulus Sertorius" <aulus_sertorius@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 30 Jun 2001 01:56:28 -0500 |
|
Salve
In regards to strictly monitoring and controlling minors, like myself, in the joining process I have to agree with you on this. I myself, being 16 years of age, have a deep interest in all things Roman but I realise that Nova Roma, which could easily be labeled as a cult, by many of the fundamentalists, should protect itself legally from those types. I recently sent my parental consent letter via the regular postal service to the censors for approval before I can submit my application for citizenship. But is this enough consent? Anyone can forge a signature and send it off. Perhaps a phone call at the applicant's expense so the censor can briefly talk with the youth and his/her parent? I think this sort of protection would be best. Absolutely not allowing youths to join would turn away many bright minds who could greatly contribute to Nova Roma.
Perhaps the best idea at the moment is to hope no one would ever persucute us as a cult. But, living in the world we do, we should be prepared and ready for these types of people and problems.
-Aulus Sertorius Doctus
"Doctus Maximus!"
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Xtreme Xtians |
| From: |
trog99@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 30 Jun 2001 07:04:57 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, "Aulus Sertorius" <aulus_sertorius@e...> wrote:
> Salve
Salve Aulus Sertorius!
I know your Pater well! I thank you for your understanding of my
concerns. Although I am not against those under 18 joining with
properly documented parental permission, I happy that you see that we
must employ some cautious standards, putting the burden of proof on
the applicant.
Bene vale, and welcome!
Pompeia Cornelia
>
> In regards to strictly monitoring and controlling minors, like
myself, in the joining process I have to agree with you on this. I
myself, being 16 years of age, have a deep interest in all things
Roman but I realise that Nova Roma, which could easily be labeled as a
cult, by many of the fundamentalists, should protect itself legally
from those types. I recently sent my parental consent letter via the
regular postal service to the censors for approval before I can submit
my application for citizenship. But is this enough consent? Anyone can
forge a signature and send it off. Perhaps a phone call at the
applicant's expense so the censor can briefly talk with the youth and
his/her parent? I think this sort of protection would be best.
Absolutely not allowing youths to join would turn away many bright
minds who could greatly contribute to Nova Roma.
>
> Perhaps the best idea at the moment is to hope no one would ever
persucute us as a cult. But, living in the world we do, we should be
prepared and ready for these types of people and problems.
>
>
> -Aulus Sertorius Doctus
> "Doctus Maximus!"
>
>
> Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora
Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Xtreme Xtians |
| From: |
"Raina Faolan" <GuruPoet@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 30 Jun 2001 03:08:00 -0400 |
|
Salve,
Carefully watching the thread on this, it's the best idea proposed so far in
my mere opinion. Aulus, don't ever discredit yourself okay? Would it be to
early to say welcome to Nova Roma?!?
Vale Bene.
R.Cornelia Aeternia
>From: "Aulus Sertorius" <aulus_sertorius@-------->
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: novaroma@--------
>Subject: Re: [novaroma] Re: Xtreme Xtians
>Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 01:56:28 -0500
>
>Salve
>
>In regards to strictly monitoring and controlling minors, like myself, in
>the joining process I have to agree with you on this. I myself, being 16
>years of age, have a deep interest in all things Roman but I realise that
>Nova Roma, which could easily be labeled as a cult, by many of the
>fundamentalists, should protect itself legally from those types. I recently
>sent my parental consent letter via the regular postal service to the
>censors for approval before I can submit my application for citizenship.
>But is this enough consent? Anyone can forge a signature and send it off.
>Perhaps a phone call at the applicant's expense so the censor can briefly
>talk with the youth and his/her parent? I think this sort of protection
>would be best. Absolutely not allowing youths to join would turn away many
>bright minds who could greatly contribute to Nova Roma.
>
>Perhaps the best idea at the moment is to hope no one would ever persucute
>us as a cult. But, living in the world we do, we should be prepared and
>ready for these types of people and problems.
>
>
>-Aulus Sertorius Doctus
>"Doctus Maximus!"
>
>
>Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail
>account at http://www.eudoramail.com
>
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] One More Thing...Minors |
| From: |
"Pompeia Cornelia Strabo" <scriba_forum@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 30 Jun 2001 07:17:41 -0000 |
|
Salvete Sertori et alii:
I neglected to address one thing with respect to your post. You asked if a
snail mail letter signed by both your non citizen parents was adequate
proof. I am also not satisfied with this as absolute proof, and I don't
mean to offend you personally......I know your pater well, and I am sure
that he has knowledge of your circumstances :). To me, and this has been
mentioned in the forum, by myself and another citizen, that such a letter
should be sealed in a legal fashion by a Justice of the Peace, Notory
Public, or the European equivalent. This states that both parents have
legally vowed that their minor child has their permission to be a citizen of
Nova Roma.
In the case of children of active citizens in Nova Roma, a bit more elacrity
could safely be employed.
Valete,
Pompeia Cornelia
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: One More Thing...Minors |
| From: |
"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 30 Jun 2001 10:32:20 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, "Pompeia Cornelia Strabo" <scriba_forum@h...> wrote:
> Salvete Sertori et alii:
>
> I neglected to address one thing with respect to your post. You
asked if a
> snail mail letter signed by both your non citizen parents was adequate
> proof. I am also not satisfied with this as absolute proof, and I
don't
> mean to offend you personally......I know your pater well, and I am
sure
> that he has knowledge of your circumstances :). To me, and this has
been
> mentioned in the forum, by myself and another citizen, that such a
letter
> should be sealed in a legal fashion by a Justice of the Peace, Notory
> Public, or the European equivalent. This states that both parents have
> legally vowed that their minor child has their permission to be a
citizen of
> Nova Roma.
>
> In the case of children of active citizens in Nova Roma, a bit more
elacrity
> could safely be employed.
>
> Valete,
>
> Pompeia Cornelia
>
Salve,
I would like to expand on this a bit.
First I'm opposed to allowing Minors under the age of 13, who's
parents aren't also citizens, under any circumstances, and I have yet
to hear an argument that would convince me that any minors under the
age of 16 should be allowed to become citizens, though I do favor
allowing 16 and 17 year olds the privilage provided that we are
protected from legal action.
As I see it the main purpose of the purposed admendment is to allow
our citizens to raise thier children as Roman citizens. In Antiquita
17 was the age of majority, though 16 year old could become adults. I
favor following this practice by allowing 16 and 17 year olds
citizenship, but anyone younger than that will be little more than an
unsupervised orphan roaming about our Republic.
Rather than a sealed letter, we need a standard form, one that
explictly states that Paganism is a part of Nova Roma. I don't want to
chance someone comming back and claiming "I though it was just a Roman
History Club, I didn't know it was some kind of cult". In order to be
legal we would probelly need translations of this form into the legal
language of the various Macro Nations that Nova Roma has a presense
in. This would require dual language forms for some Macro-Nations,
Canada for example would require a English French form.
Vale,
L. Sicinius Drusus
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Upcomming Milestone |
| From: |
"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 30 Jun 2001 10:42:34 -0000 |
|
Salvete Omnes,
A glance at the Album Civium show that as I write this we have 952
citizens!
http://www.novaroma.org/bin/view/
We will soon be welcoming our Thousandth citizen, so I would like to
request a favor from the Censors. When you approve the application
that puts us at a thousand citizens, could you announce that we have
reached that milestone, and perhaps include the name of the new
citizen who gave us a population of a thousand.
Valete,
L. Sicinius Drusus
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Xtreme Xtians |
| From: |
Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 30 Jun 2001 04:25:37 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Salvete omnes.
--- Raina Faolan <GuruPoet@--------> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> Carefully watching the thread on this, it's the best idea proposed so
> far in
> my mere opinion. Aulus, don't ever discredit yourself okay? Would it
> be to
> early to say welcome to Nova Roma?!?
>
> Vale Bene.
> R.Cornelia Aeternia
It is a good idea. However, it presents some technical problems.
Remember that Nova Roma is an international micronation. If I were a
minor and a yank :-) should call to my home asking (in English, I
suppose) to talk to my parents, we all would be in deep trouble :-).
>
> >From: "Aulus Sertorius" <aulus_sertorius@-------->
> >Reply-To: novaroma@--------
> >To: novaroma@--------
> >Subject: Re: [novaroma] Re: Xtreme Xtians
> >Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 01:56:28 -0500
> >
> >Salve
> >
> >In regards to strictly monitoring and controlling minors, like
> myself, in
> >the joining process I have to agree with you on this. I myself,
> being 16
> >years of age, have a deep interest in all things Roman but I realise
> that
> >Nova Roma, which could easily be labeled as a cult, by many of the
> >fundamentalists, should protect itself legally from those types. I
> recently
> >sent my parental consent letter via the regular postal service to
> the
> >censors for approval before I can submit my application for
> citizenship.
> >But is this enough consent? Anyone can forge a signature and send it
> off.
> >Perhaps a phone call at the applicant's expense so the censor can
> briefly
> >talk with the youth and his/her parent? I think this sort of
> protection
> >would be best. Absolutely not allowing youths to join would turn
> away many
> >bright minds who could greatly contribute to Nova Roma.
> >
> >Perhaps the best idea at the moment is to hope no one would ever
> persucute
> >us as a cult. But, living in the world we do, we should be prepared
> and
> >ready for these types of people and problems.
> >
> >
> >-Aulus Sertorius Doctus
> >"Doctus Maximus!"
> >
> >
> >Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora
> Web-Mail
> >account at http://www.eudoramail.com
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] new |
| From: |
margali <margali@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 30 Jun 2001 11:02:51 -0400 |
|
As a fellow citizen in your provincis, let me welcome you!
margali
Hyapatia Asinia
[and as the editor protem of the provincia newsletter, if you
privately email me your address I will send you a copy of the
newsletter ;-) ]
~~~~~
the quote starts here:
Greetings all,
My husband and I have just become new members of Nova Roma. Our
involvement
with the Roman era so far has been through some friends and our
business.
We live in Maine,
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Xtreme Xtians |
| From: |
"Julie & Lawrence Brooks" <anubis@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 30 Jun 2001 08:46:16 -0400 |
|
You could always have the letter signed by a notary public to bear witness. That would probably cover it, plus a phone call. I've run into similar problems teaching Wicca classes, that covers it for me.
Regards,
Varia Cassia
----- Original Message -----
From: Aulus Sertorius
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 2:56 AM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Re: Xtreme Xtians
Salve
In regards to strictly monitoring and controlling minors, like myself, in the joining process I have to agree with you on this. I myself, being 16 years of age, have a deep interest in all things Roman but I realise that Nova Roma, which could easily be labeled as a cult, by many of the fundamentalists, should protect itself legally from those types. I recently sent my parental consent letter via the regular postal service to the censors for approval before I can submit my application for citizenship. But is this enough consent? Anyone can forge a signature and send it off. Perhaps a phone call at the applicant's expense so the censor can briefly talk with the youth and his/her parent? I think this sort of protection would be best. Absolutely not allowing youths to join would turn away many bright minds who could greatly contribute to Nova Roma.
Perhaps the best idea at the moment is to hope no one would ever persucute us as a cult. But, living in the world we do, we should be prepared and ready for these types of people and problems.
-Aulus Sertorius Doctus
"Doctus Maximus!"
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Me, too! |
| From: |
"Jo Ann Hinkle" <joann@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 30 Jun 2001 08:54:15 -0500 |
|
Greetings,
Since all the new citizens are introducing themselves, I shall do the same.
I am always apprehensive about introducing myself, which is ridiculous I
know, since everyone on this list so far seems to be very courteous and
cooperative. Also, I belong to another list with classical themes on which
everyone seems to have a doctorate degree and is quite knowledgable about
everything. I am always apprehensive about posting there, since I'm always
afraid I'll say something horribly wrong.
I live in Illinois and my academic background is in English literature. I
teach writing and lit at the high school level. I minored in history in
college and ancient history has always been an interest (along with the
American Revolution). Currently, I am learning Latin and enjoying the
process very much, though I am still a beginner. I had a question
regarding pronunciation, if somebody out there wouldn't mind answering. The
program I am using doesn't pronounce the final m as a bilabial hum, but
instead interprets is as a signal to nasalize the preceding vowel. Is that
a standard pronunciation? I don't know enough about Latin language to make
a judgement on that. I'm having a hard time with the nasal thing. Any
helpful hints?
Also, I notice that most of the posters so far are using Romanized or
Latinized names, which I love. But I think that might be a little difficult
with my very German last name. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Jo Ann Hinkle
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: June 28, 2001---A Sad Day |
| From: |
owlsmirror@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 30 Jun 2001 15:23:34 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, gcassiusnerva@c... wrote:
> I am sad to report that the world lost a treasure. The
peripatetic
> {Aristolean} philosopher, Mortimer J. Adler, has died at the age of
98.
>
I am a new citizen of nova roma...still figuring it out.
I, too am sorry to hear that Mortimer Adler has died. When I was 16 I
read *The Lifetime Reading Plan* and I have taken it to heart. (I am
now 48). Currently, I am reading Herodotus. I make a point of reading
one or two "great classics" every year.
(Note--I have Michael Grant's *History of Rome* as one of the next-in-
line) Does anyone know anything about Michael Grant? Is he a reliable
scholar?
Paulina Corva
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] RE: Michael Grant |
| From: |
QFabiusMaxmi@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 30 Jun 2001 14:22:56 EDT |
|
In a message dated 6/30/2001 8:32:23 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
owlsmirror@-------- writes:
> (Note--I have Michael Grant's *History of Rome* as one of the next-in-
> line) Does anyone know anything about Michael Grant? Is he a reliable
> scholar?
>
> Paulina Corva
>
Salvete
Michael Grant is a prolific coffee table book writer. His books are primers
on subjects that if you wish to read more on gives you a starting point. He
never claimed or is hailed to be great or polished historian.
Q. Fabius Maximus
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Upcomming Milestone |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 30 Jun 2001 12:56:03 -0700 |
|
Ave,
Oh yes...we generally announce milestones like when we reach the 700th,
800th, etc citzens. Dont worry, it will be announced.
Respectfully,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Lucius Sicinius Drusus wrote:
>
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> A glance at the Album Civium show that as I write this we have 952
> citizens!
>
> http://www.novaroma.org/bin/view/
>
> We will soon be welcoming our Thousandth citizen, so I would like to
> request a favor from the Censors. When you approve the application
> that puts us at a thousand citizens, could you announce that we have
> reached that milestone, and perhaps include the name of the new
> citizen who gave us a population of a thousand.
>
> Valete,
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Disappointment |
| From: |
owlsmirror@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 30 Jun 2001 15:55:13 -0000 |
|
I went to the Via Romana web page at:
http://www.novaroma.org/via_romana/index.htm, hoping to find some
interesting information, some good links. I found that of the first 5
links, three of them are "dead" and one has been redirected. This is
most disappointing. Who is in charge of maintaining the web pages?
There are programs available that will scan your web page for dead
links, so that you can remove or change them, making maintainence
easier.
Paulina Corva
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Disappointment continued and exacerbated |
| From: |
owlsmirror@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 30 Jun 2001 16:02:05 -0000 |
|
As I continue to click down the links in "Via Romana" I find that not
only are my first choices "page not found" but in fact MOST of the
links are completely dead. This is very annoying and discouraging.
Paulina Corva
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Byzantine Empire question. |
| From: |
=?iso-8859-1?q?Marcos=20Boehme?= <marminius@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 30 Jun 2001 14:19:33 -0300 (ART) |
|
Salvete Quirites
--- Michel Loos <loos@--------> escreveu: >
QFabiusMaxmi@-------- wrote:
> > I really believe (wrote a paper on this, in fact)
> that the empire fell when
> > the old gods abandoned Rome.
> Salvete,
>
> I agree with you, old Rome fell when the Victory
> Altar was retired from
> the senate (under Theodosus I think).
[..]
> Just remembering the aqueducts were destroyed by the
> Byzantines during
> the reconquest of Justinian. Before that, culturally
> people leaving
> under Ostrogoth rule were still Romans (like
> Boetius).
MAIOR: By the way, it seems that the "barbarians"
preserved the Senate. Did someone know when the Senate
of Roma was destroyed (under Justinianus and
Belisarius, i believe?)
>
> Vale,
>
> Manius Villius Limitanus
>
> > Without the strong symbol of Empire,
> disintegration
> > was a matter of time.
> >
> > Valete
> > Q Fabius Maximus
Valete
Marcus Arminius Maior
_______________________________________________________________________________________________
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Disappointment |
| From: |
"Pompeia Cornelia Strabo" <scriba_forum@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 30 Jun 2001 21:11:05 -0000 |
|
Salvete Paulina et alii:
Alas, I know that this can be disappointing. However, please bear in mind
that the magistrates of Nova Roma do their jobs voluntarily, without
payment. Everyone in Nova Roma has a life and resultant obligations to tend
to, which often leaves the republic's work on the back burner.
To me, it is unRoman to ignore ones outsided obligations to tend to writing
web pages, and in all likelihood, the pages which are missing are being
rewritten.
I think we have one of the most well organized websites on the net, and
certainly one of the most comprehensive with respect to all aspect of life
in Roma Antiquita, and here in NR.
Ave Marce Octavi et staff, Nova Roma's Retarius (webmaster) and others who
have contributed to the website!!!
Not giving you heck, Paula, just saying, please be patient.
Bene valete,
Pompeia Cornelia
>From: owlsmirror@--------
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: novaroma@--------
>Subject: [novaroma] Disappointment
>Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 15:55:13 -0000
>
>I went to the Via Romana web page at:
>http://www.novaroma.org/via_romana/index.htm, hoping to find some
>interesting information, some good links. I found that of the first 5
>links, three of them are "dead" and one has been redirected. This is
>most disappointing. Who is in charge of maintaining the web pages?
>There are programs available that will scan your web page for dead
>links, so that you can remove or change them, making maintainence
>easier.
>
>Paulina Corva
>
>
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Disappointment continued and exacerbated |
| From: |
"Marcus Cassius Julianus" <cassius622@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 30 Jun 2001 21:14:01 -0000 |
|
Salvete,
Nova Roma is perpetually short of folks to do regular maintenance
work on the website. My guess is that "dead links" are an area which
doesn't get enough attention simply through a lack of time and
skilled personnell.
It is news to me that there are programs with will check the links on
a website. It would certainly be useful! Yet even if we do invest in
such we will still be in need of people to devote their time to
finding new "on topic links" and adding them to the site. Websites
are created and then go offline with amazing speed, and keeping
current is a common problem. Even more so for an organization that
depends on part-time volunteer efforts.
Our webmaster, Marcus Octavius Germanicus, is away at a family
gathering until Sunday night, 7/1. His email address is
octavius@-------- If you would like to contact him directly I am
sure he can give you more detailed answers about this situation.
And... if you'd like to volunteer to help assist with this problem
he'd certainly be the one to talk with! :)
Vale,
Marcus Cassius Julianus
Consul
--- In novaroma@--------, owlsmirror@-------- wrote:
> As I continue to click down the links in "Via Romana" I find that
not
> only are my first choices "page not found" but in fact MOST of the
> links are completely dead. This is very annoying and discouraging.
>
> Paulina Corva
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Me, too! |
| From: |
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 30 Jun 2001 23:06:20 +0200 |
|
>Also, I notice that most of the posters so far are using Romanized or
>Latinized names, which I love. But I think that might be a little difficult
>with my very German last name. Any suggestions?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jo Ann Hinkle
Salve!
My _personal_ view is that we should try to adopt a correct set of Roman
names, not just Romanized or Latinized names. You could of course try to
get a translation to Latin of your "German" last name. But I feel that
finding an original set of Roman names (Praenomen, Nomen an Cognomen),
which You feel You really like, is the way to go. You could take the name
of some of your favorite historical Roman personalities for instance. Or
You could start looking for a Nomen that seems to be strong and active (
and which You like) in Nova Roma and ask the Pater Familias if You can
join, this is probably the best way as You will give You strong support
from your Gens (Clan based on the Nomen).
Of course this just my personal feelings. There are however some rules
about how to get a legal name in Nova Roma. The Censorns should be able to
guide You.
Here are two links that will possibly help You:
http://www.novaroma.org/via_romana/names.html
http://www.novaroma.org/via_romana/names2.html
I wish You luck in your search for a life in Nova Roma and I hope You will
find a name that You really will like.
Vale
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus
The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
Join the List for the Thule Provincia in Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThuleNovaRoma/join
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
Caeso, he who also is known as Christer Edling.
************************************************
Using a keyboard that don't want to make L! :-(
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Holiday and a litter |
| From: |
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 30 Jun 2001 23:27:49 +0200 |
|
Salve Omnes!
I just want to announce that I will be a bit slow to respond to mails and
to participate in the discussions on the main mail list during the
following two or three months. There are three reasons:
1. I am regaining my health after a very hard 9 month period with high
blood pressure and bad situation at my job. Summer is the time to regain
strength and I feel how it is growing every hour. :-)
2. This summer seems to become a really wonderful summer and those are not
very usual in northern Sweden, so I will sit and read (Napoleonic and Roman
books, some Roleplaying games and a few Novels) in the sun on my veranda.
My friends really invade my house and I enjoy have them around, but that
takes time. ;-)
3. I am a singel, but I have taken on the huge task of raising a litter of
Saluki puppies. Three days ago seven beautiful puppies arrived, three males
and four bitches (I have bred Salukis since 1980). They have the colours of
my kennel (Shamali) black grizzle and grey grizzle. They and people wanting
to just see them or buy one of them surely will take most of my time during
the months to come. :-)
I will of course uphold my duties as Quaestor of Nova Roma and ProPraetor
of Thule. I will try to anwer any contacts within these dutiess as fast as
possible. I will howerever go 800 km south between 25 July and 1 August to
fetch my daughter and to be at a huge Gazehoundshow.
Please have patience with me, just for the summer? ;-)
Vale
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus
The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
Join the List for the Thule Provincia in Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThuleNovaRoma/join
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
Caeso, he who also is known as Christer Edling.
************************************************
Using a keyboard that don't want to make L! :-(
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Me, too! |
| From: |
"Domna Claudia Auspicata" <comptess@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 1 Jul 2001 09:47:24 +1200 |
|
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Salve!
Welcome! If you are interested in the Latin side of Nova Roma try
the Sodalitas Latinitas group. Just send an email to:
Latinitas-subscribe@--------
There are Latin lessons in the message archives and I believe some on
pronounciation as well.
Vale
Domna Claudia Auspicata
Scriba, Redactor - Sodalitas Latinitas
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Jo Ann Hinkle
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 1:54 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Me, too!
Greetings,
Since all the new citizens are introducing themselves, I shall do the
same.
I am always apprehensive about introducing myself, which is
ridiculous I
know, since everyone on this list so far seems to be very courteous
and
cooperative. Also, I belong to another list with classical themes on
which
everyone seems to have a doctorate degree and is quite knowledgable
about
everything. I am always apprehensive about posting there, since I'm
always
afraid I'll say something horribly wrong.
I live in Illinois and my academic background is in English
literature. I
teach writing and lit at the high school level. I minored in history
in
college and ancient history has always been an interest (along with
the
American Revolution). Currently, I am learning Latin and enjoying
the
process very much, though I am still a beginner. I had a question
regarding pronunciation, if somebody out there wouldn't mind
answering. The
program I am using doesn't pronounce the final m as a bilabial hum,
but
instead interprets is as a signal to nasalize the preceding vowel.
Is that
a standard pronunciation? I don't know enough about Latin language
to make
a judgement on that. I'm having a hard time with the nasal thing.
Any
helpful hints?
Also, I notice that most of the posters so far are using Romanized or
Latinized names, which I love. But I think that might be a little
difficult
with my very German last name. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Jo Ann Hinkle
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Nova Britannia Provincial Edictum |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 30 Jun 2001 18:32:02 -0400 (EDT) |
|
Nova Roma Citizens;
I am extremely pleased to announce the appointment of Libraii Iasonvs
Serenvs Carolvs to the above Staff.
Libraii Iasonvs Serevs has indicated some rather unique ideas which I
shall be pleased to review, as well as acting temporarily as the Clerk
for the Regio de New Hampshire.
This message is a Provincial Edictum announcing this appointment.
Respectfully;
Marcus Minucius Audens
ProConsul;
Provincia Nova Britannia -- Nova Roma
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Holiday and a litter |
| From: |
"Raina Faolan" <GuruPoet@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 30 Jun 2001 19:31:06 -0400 |
|
Salve,
Saluki's closely resemble Whippets correct except with longer hair? Seven?
Awwwwwwwwww!!!!! I want one, they sound absolutely adorable. Alas, I'm all
the way in america *sniff*. Rasing a litter alone is no easy task, had to
with my border collie brood. Good luck and get well soon.
Vale Bene,
Aeternia
>From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@-------->
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: novaroma@--------
>Subject: [novaroma] Holiday and a litter
>Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 23:27:49 +0200
>
>Salve Omnes!
>
>I just want to announce that I will be a bit slow to respond to mails and
>to participate in the discussions on the main mail list during the
>following two or three months. There are three reasons:
>
>1. I am regaining my health after a very hard 9 month period with high
>blood pressure and bad situation at my job. Summer is the time to regain
>strength and I feel how it is growing every hour. :-)
>2. This summer seems to become a really wonderful summer and those are not
>very usual in northern Sweden, so I will sit and read (Napoleonic and Roman
>books, some Roleplaying games and a few Novels) in the sun on my veranda.
>My friends really invade my house and I enjoy have them around, but that
>takes time. ;-)
>3. I am a singel, but I have taken on the huge task of raising a litter of
>Saluki puppies. Three days ago seven beautiful puppies arrived, three males
>and four bitches (I have bred Salukis since 1980). They have the colours of
>my kennel (Shamali) black grizzle and grey grizzle. They and people wanting
>to just see them or buy one of them surely will take most of my time during
>the months to come. :-)
>
>I will of course uphold my duties as Quaestor of Nova Roma and ProPraetor
>of Thule. I will try to anwer any contacts within these dutiess as fast as
>possible. I will howerever go 800 km south between 25 July and 1 August to
>fetch my daughter and to be at a huge Gazehoundshow.
>
>Please have patience with me, just for the summer? ;-)
>
>Vale
>
>Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
>Quaestor of Nova Roma
>Propraetor of Thule
>Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus
>
>The Opinions expressed are my own,
>and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
>************************************************
>Join the Main List for Nova Roma
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
>Join the List for the Thule Provincia in Nova Roma
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThuleNovaRoma/join
>************************************************
>The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
>http://thule.novaroma.org/
>************************************************
>Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
>"I'll either find a way or make one"
>************************************************
>"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
>************************************************
>Caeso, he who also is known as Christer Edling.
>************************************************
>Using a keyboard that don't want to make L! :-(
>************************************************
>PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
>DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
>MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80
_________________________________________________________________
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] NR Coins |
| From: |
Sextus Cornelius Cotta <sextus@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 30 Jun 2001 16:03:59 -0500 |
|
Salvete,
I was wondering if anyone has had trouble getting their order. I ordered
and paid on 6/7 and have not received them yet. I have e-mailed twice about
them and the first was answered but not the second(sent on this past
Wednesday). I ordered 40 coins to be shipped to me in Wichita, KS. I am
still eagerly awaiting them. Any info would helpful.
Sextus Cornelius Cotta
--
>From the iMac of Sextus Cornelius Cotta
ICQ#: 29580250
AIM: SextusCornelius
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Holiday and a litter |
| From: |
"Julie & Lawrence Brooks" <anubis@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 30 Jun 2001 19:42:30 -0400 |
|
Salve,
Ah now, whippets are a subject I know something about. I have a whippet and they're great animals. Whippets are smaller than Saluki's and I think Saluki's have longer hair. From what I hear, they are similar in temperant. Whippets like alot of attention though and very loyal usually to one person. They constantly want to be with you and go wherever you go, be where you are. They are quite content to sit with you all day on the couch and watch TV or ride in the car. They're extremely quick and fast and are sight oriented dogs, after anything that moves. They're even tempered dogs and can be a little scittish around loud noises. Mine likes children but she doesn't like sudden movements or something coming up behind her. IMHO I don't think they are good kid dogs - but great dogs for adults.
Varia Casia
----- Original Message -----
From: Raina Faolan
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Holiday and a litter
Salve,
Saluki's closely resemble Whippets correct except with longer hair? Seven?
Awwwwwwwwww!!!!! I want one, they sound absolutely adorable. Alas, I'm all
the way in america *sniff*. Rasing a litter alone is no easy task, had to
with my border collie brood. Good luck and get well soon.
Vale Bene,
Aeternia
>From: Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@-------->
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: novaroma@--------
>Subject: [novaroma] Holiday and a litter
>Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 23:27:49 +0200
>
>Salve Omnes!
>
>I just want to announce that I will be a bit slow to respond to mails and
>to participate in the discussions on the main mail list during the
>following two or three months. There are three reasons:
>
>1. I am regaining my health after a very hard 9 month period with high
>blood pressure and bad situation at my job. Summer is the time to regain
>strength and I feel how it is growing every hour. :-)
>2. This summer seems to become a really wonderful summer and those are not
>very usual in northern Sweden, so I will sit and read (Napoleonic and Roman
>books, some Roleplaying games and a few Novels) in the sun on my veranda.
>My friends really invade my house and I enjoy have them around, but that
>takes time. ;-)
>3. I am a singel, but I have taken on the huge task of raising a litter of
>Saluki puppies. Three days ago seven beautiful puppies arrived, three males
>and four bitches (I have bred Salukis since 1980). They have the colours of
>my kennel (Shamali) black grizzle and grey grizzle. They and people wanting
>to just see them or buy one of them surely will take most of my time during
>the months to come. :-)
>
>I will of course uphold my duties as Quaestor of Nova Roma and ProPraetor
>of Thule. I will try to anwer any contacts within these dutiess as fast as
>possible. I will howerever go 800 km south between 25 July and 1 August to
>fetch my daughter and to be at a huge Gazehoundshow.
>
>Please have patience with me, just for the summer? ;-)
>
>Vale
>
>Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
>Quaestor of Nova Roma
>Propraetor of Thule
>Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus
>
>The Opinions expressed are my own,
>and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
>************************************************
>Join the Main List for Nova Roma
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
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>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThuleNovaRoma/join
>************************************************
>The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
>http://thule.novaroma.org/
>************************************************
>Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
>"I'll either find a way or make one"
>************************************************
>"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
>************************************************
>Caeso, he who also is known as Christer Edling.
>************************************************
>Using a keyboard that don't want to make L! :-(
>************************************************
>PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
>DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
>MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80
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