Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Digest Number 1501
From:	"Teleri ferch Nyfain" <rckovak@-------->
Date:	Sun, 1 Jul 2001 20:13:11 -0400

Salvete,

Sounds wonderful to me! I'm in - $65 is cheap!! (yea, I know, dreaming
again).

Valete,
Helena Galeria

> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 23:06:00 EDT
> From: cassius622@--------
> Subject: Canadian Island for Sale...
>
> Salvete,
>
> Yeah, I know I'm dreamin'... but I just ran across a 26 acre Island for
sale,
> with a sort of Roman name no less. Check out Eagle Island at:
>
> http://www.islandforsale.com/eagle.htm
>
> It's for sale for $79,000 in Canadian dollars. That's $52,158.99 in US
> dollars, far less than the sale price for a single family home... even a
used
> trailor on a half-acre lot, at least in the area where I'm living!
>
> Lessee... that price divided among 800 citizens would be $65.19 per
person.
> Well, I'M in! (Hell, I'd be in for a few hundred bucks.) Say, any of our
> Canadian Citizens care to arrange a down payment and financing?
>
> Sure, the NR website says we're looking for 108 acres, but hey, what a
place
> to build a Roman fort and hoist a flag...
>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
> Consul





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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Islands >> different ideas
From:	"Marcus Cassius Julianus" <cassius622@-------->
Date:	Mon, 02 Jul 2001 00:34:47 -0000

Salvete,

Well, I started this island business, and shouldn't be surprised if
the ideas tend to grow as we discuss! I am indeed impressed
with "Long Island" in Australia being larger than some existing
macronations. Yet it seems important to again point out that the idea
for a Nova Roman capital has *not* been for us all to move somewhere
together and "homestead" a utopia.

The vast majority of our Citizens aren't likely to pick up and move
to some remote area... the idea of Nova Roma, after all, is that
Roman culture still exists and simply needs "focus" to be alive again
anywhere in the modern world.

Having *some* land, even a small bit, would help us in many ways.
Land is almost universally equated with sovereign status. Having a
physical place, even if we don't all pick up and move there, would
show that we are more than just a "cyber experiment". Being able to
build ANY sort of material expression of our existance - a park, a
building, a Roman fort, or a forum... would be a huge publicity gain.

Oceania is an interesting idea, but it sure is cheaper and easier to
buy existing land than build your own. Their website says their
company went into debt just building the *model* of what they want to
do! Same deal with "Freedomship". Building the largest ship ever to
float is going to take some doing. A few *billion* dollars is my
guess, with materials and labor. (Not to mention that I can't imagine
a ship building facility capable of such a job. There aren't a lot of
mile-long drydocks around. The Venus Project is if anything even more
difficult... they only want to redesign *everything* in the world!

I'll stick with the idea of a cheap small island, myself. And so what
if it sinks? We just load it with offerings to Neptune, get what
publicity we can off the event, and move on. Losing a fifty thousand
dollar piece of land is nothing compared to having a mile long
pleasure boat or floating city capsize or sink in a hurricane or a
tsunami! ;)

I don't mean to rain on your parade, Publicus. If I get to dream
about Nova Roma owning a million dollar island in Australia, it's not
like I'm the model of practicality myself. The links you found are
very cool indeed, merely very expensive to do. I hope you'll forgive
me for trying to steer conversation to the more possible areas. There
really *isn't* a reason why we couldn't buy a cheap piece of land to
start with, and it's good to remember that as well.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus


--- In novaroma@--------, "Andrew Riell--------lt;ariell--------...> wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pompeia Cornelia Strabo <scriba_forum@-------->
> To: novaroma@-------- <novaroma@-------->
> Date: Sunday, July 01, 2001 11:54 AM
> Subject: [novaroma] Canadian Land/Climate
>
>
> >Salve Omnes:
> >
> >Canadian climate, as with other areas of the globe, has become
> progressively
> >warmer, with less formidable winters. I have noticed quite a
difference in
> >the past 20 or so years, atleast where I live, which is beside Lake
> >Superior.
> >
>
>
> Yes, and with the expected rise in the sea levels thanks to Global
Warming
> (regardless if it is human caused, or assisted, it's real) an
island may not
> be the best course of action for the long term. Many atolls and
low islands
> are already disappearing. Canada is not an appealing idea
either...how much
> carbon in the atmosphere triggered the last ice age? Less than
now. I'd
> rather not be entombed in a glacier *if* the eco system tried to
stabilize
> itself as it has done so many times in the distant past. :-)
>
> Here are a couple ideas, the first of which will likely not be
popular...
> :-)
>
> First wacko Sunday afternoon idea. Find a city, region or entire
small
> macronational country that is economically unstable and move
in...begin
> getting elected to positions of power and simply take over in a
bloodless
> coup. Yeah, this is hard and dangerous (not to mention running the
risk of
> going against the NR constitution and statements about non-
violence) and I
> probably don't like the idea either, but there is historical
precedence, we
> in Oregon even had a cult move in and take over a remote city in
the 80's.
>
> Second idea, with contemporary and historical precedence. Get some
cives
> together and relocate to South or Central America. There are
several groups
> of expatriate Americans that are moving down there in small groups
and
> buying acreage. The governments love the influx of foreign money
and many
> of them offer immediate dual-citizenship for US citizens. 2,500
acres runs
> about $50,000 US and is sometimes old plantations, etc with
somewhat arable
> land, some buildings, water, etc. Another $40,000 or so (depending
on the
> number of people) would install basic water purification and some
> photovoltaics or wind generators. Housing is additional $$$ but
the raw
> materials are a heck of a lot cheaper there. A decent satelite
> communication system is readily attainable and suitable for network
> connections (per minutes are expensive, so something closer in to a
larger
> city would allow for traditional wired connections).
>
> So, regarding the second idea, how many people are in a position to
work
> remotely (for example writers or engineers who only need computer
+
> internet to maintain their current jobs)? How many people have
skills
> and/or current jobs which would make money in a rural community?
>
> Here are some URL's to think about:
> www.oceania.org << ancient web site (no updates in 6 years), very
> libertarian ideas (personal comments withheld ;-) )
> www.freedomship.com << corporate bastards and power elite
escaping from
> responsibility
> www.thevenusproject.com << inspiration for one expatriate group
vaguely
> referenced in idea #2 above (in ecuador I think, I can look it up
if anyone
> cares)
>
> Publicus




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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Island for Sale...
From:	"Marcus Cassius Julianus" <cassius622@-------->
Date:	Mon, 02 Jul 2001 00:45:10 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> wrote:
> Oh, there are many *really* small islands in the Mediterranean that
no one really wants, like the Columbretes Islands off the Spanish
> Mediterranean coast. Buying on of the smallest wouldn't be so
> expensive.

Salve,

I've never heard of the Columbretes, so it's possible you're right.
But of course, I've been looking into "Islands for sale" for a couple
days now, and have seen several *one acre* islands selling for a
million dollars or more.

If you have any way of checking our Mediterranean islands, please let
me know. The important thing to remember is that just because an
island seems remote and uninhabited, doesn't mean its for sale! The
last island that was suggested as a perfect place was in fact an
Italian "protected wildlife sanctuary", owned by the government and
not likely to become available *ever*. Checking with real estate
firms for low priced, less desirable locations that are indeed on the
open market seems a good way to proceed.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus




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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Island for Sale...
From:	"Marcus Cassius Julianus" <cassius622@-------->
Date:	Mon, 02 Jul 2001 01:03:13 -0000

Salve,

Ouch! But again, the goal isn't necessarily to go *live* there. The
area seems to have summers moderate enough to attract tourists... no
reason not to have a "seasonal Roman camp" or some such.

The big goal is to have a material place over which we have legal
dominion, and where we can plant a flag. (And maybe even a building
or two!) Such a move would immediately take us from the "cyber world"
and into "reality". Organizations that live on the Internet are a
dime a dozen... organizations that have a physical headquarters get a
good deal more consideration and respect.

Think of it. You go to the NR website, and the first thing you see is
a flag, and a photo of an island! (Or a Roman building on a piece of
land that isn't an island, what the heck.) Underneath it says that
Nova Roma is a sovereign micronation, which has a world capital
located at "____". You can click on a link and see more of the
island, or whatever it is.

Such resources would prove that we're an honest-to-gods Sovereignty
Project. We'd be in the category of "landed micronations", like the
Vatican, and the Knights of Malta, Sealand, and the Micronesian
Islands. The difference between that kind of status and being just a
website and email list is so vast it's difficult to describe.

Land would quite literally "put us on the map". I truly believe that
if promoted right, it would bring us a huge gain in interest,
Citizens, and opportunities. The only trick is finding something we
can affort to buy, and maintain. In that respect a less desirable
location and a climate harsh at times might just be helpful to us.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus


--- In novaroma@--------, "Julie & Lawrence Brooks" <anubis@s...> wrote:
> Maybe we should skip the Edmonton area for land. I just got
finished looking at a program on the Edmonton Mall, which is the
biggest mall. It was built so people would have a place to go
because it regularly gets 30 below outside during the winter. Not
exactly my idea of a warm winter retreat.
>
> Varia Cassia





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Subject:	[novaroma] PBS TV Show on Gladiators
From:	Sextus Cornelius Cotta <sextus@-------->
Date:	Sun, 01 Jul 2001 19:57:52 -0500

Our local Public Broadcasting station is showing a program named
"Gladiators: Bloodsport of the Colosseum" tonight. It is a history
of the beginning Gladiatoral combat and the way they lived their
lives. It covers the various types of Gladiators and the way they
fought and the training they received. They had some re-enactors
doing demo's of the way they fought. It also shows what items were
found at Pompei that had to do with the games. It was very, very
interesting. Check it out if you can.

Sextus Cornelius Cotta


--
>From the iMac of Sextus Cornelius Cotta
ICQ#: 29580250
AIM: SextusCornelius





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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Islands >> different ideas
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Mon, 02 Jul 2001 01:30:01 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "Marcus Cassius Julianus" <cassius622@a...> wrote:

SNIP
>
> I don't mean to rain on your parade, Publicus. If I get to dream
> about Nova Roma owning a million dollar island in Australia, it's not
> like I'm the model of practicality myself. The links you found are
> very cool indeed, merely very expensive to do. I hope you'll forgive
> me for trying to steer conversation to the more possible areas. There
> really *isn't* a reason why we couldn't buy a cheap piece of land to
> start with, and it's good to remember that as well.
>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
>
>
Salvete Marce Cassi et Omnes,

I have to agree.
It's fun to dream big, but we have to start somewhere, and for now
that means settling for more afforadable land. We may be able to raise
the funds for something like Eagle Island in the near future, and in
the longer term it can allways be resold, with a good chance of a
profit at a future date.

An Island has certain attractions, however they tend to be higher
priced than the same acreage on the mainland would cost. West Texas
land goes for as little as US $75.00 an acre.

http://www.sre-inc.com/acres.htm

That land is of course very hard to develop anything on due to it's
remote location and lack of water. Land in Rural Areas that are more
favorable to actually build on can be bought for less than US $1500.00
an acre like this land in Georgia.

http://www.landadz.com/land/ads/ga_001.html

Though this site may be larger than our needs.

One thing to bear in mind when buying land is the cost of any
development we may wish to make. Getting utilities to distant land can
be expensive, and the cost goes up considerably if the land is an
island. Construction materials have to be transported to the site, so
good access is also important, and again islands cause a considerable
increase in the cost of transporting construction materals. Climate
plays a role in construction costs too. Areas with very cold winters
drive up the cost of construction, and the costs of heating if the
building is to be used year round. Location also matters if we want
our citizens to actually be able to visit the site. Since we are an
international organization we can't be convient for everyone, but a
site that is hours away from the nearest airport or major highway is
INCONVIENT for everyone.

Valete,
L. Sicinius Drusus




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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Re: Island for Sale...
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Sun, 1 Jul 2001 21:37:02 -0400

Salvete

> -----Original Message-----
> From: QFabiusMaxmi@-------- [mailto:QFabiusMaxmi@--------]
> Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 1:10 PM
>
> I vote for Capua. It is perfect for our needs.

The Italian government might disagree with that statement. Last time I
heard, they weren't too keen on letting go of their sovereign rights to
territory, no matter how noble the goal.

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
ICQ: 106199729
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org




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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Islands >> different ideas
From:	"Marcus Cassius Julianus" <cassius622@-------->
Date:	Mon, 02 Jul 2001 02:03:14 -0000

Salve,

Your points are very good, Drusus! And, you've found some of the
most "possible" land I've ever seen. I confess I'm still going to
check out Eagle Island, simply because I think it might have
more "publicity" value in the long run... but I wouldn't turn my nose
up at land in Texas. Not at all!

You bring the conversation into some interesting aspects. Convenience
vs. Price is a tough decision! I must say that if what I'm reading is
correct, we could afford to buy the Texas land almost immediately. I
could set up a "land fund" this week, and I'm betting we could raise
more than $500 for a down payment. We'd have to, since we'd want a
low monthly payment that could *definitely* be kept up between an
ongoing land fund, donations, macellum sales, etc.

It's not like it would be impossible to buy the land outright with
almost no financing. $30,000 US divided among 800 people is only
$37.50 or so each! :)

However, there is one question about the Texas land. Can it be built
on? It's being sold as "hunting land", meaning there may be caveats
against any kind of construction.

Vale,

Marcus Cassius Julianus


--- In novaroma@--------, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@--------> wrote:

> An Island has certain attractions, however they tend to be higher
> priced than the same acreage on the mainland would cost. West Texas
> land goes for as little as US $75.00 an acre.
>
> http://www.sre-inc.com/acres.htm
>
> That land is of course very hard to develop anything on due to it's
> remote location and lack of water. Land in Rural Areas that are more
> favorable to actually build on can be bought for less than US
$1500.00
> an acre like this land in Georgia.
>
> http://www.landadz.com/land/ads/ga_001.html
>
> Though this site may be larger than our needs.
>
> One thing to bear in mind when buying land is the cost of any
> development we may wish to make. Getting utilities to distant land
can
> be expensive, and the cost goes up considerably if the land is an
> island. Construction materials have to be transported to the site,
so
> good access is also important, and again islands cause a
considerable
> increase in the cost of transporting construction materals. Climate
> plays a role in construction costs too. Areas with very cold winters
> drive up the cost of construction, and the costs of heating if the
> building is to be used year round. Location also matters if we want
> our citizens to actually be able to visit the site. Since we are an
> international organization we can't be convient for everyone, but a
> site that is hours away from the nearest airport or major highway is
> INCONVIENT for everyone.
>
> Valete,
> L. Sicinius Drusus




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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Island for Sale...
From:	"Marcus Cassius Julianus" <cassius622@-------->
Date:	Mon, 02 Jul 2001 02:12:55 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@n...>
wrote:

> The Italian government might disagree with that statement. Last
time I heard, they weren't too keen on letting go of their sovereign
rights to territory, no matter how noble the goal.
>

Salvete,

This point is quite true. NO land we get, anywhere in the world, is
going to be "realeased" from it's macronational sovereignty anytime
soon. (Although it is something that has happened before, both to the
Vatican and the nation of Israel.) Any place we get will be
under "dual sovereignty", and the macronation in question won't even
recognize that. But not to worry, we can easily keep a macronation
happy by paying taxes and obeying the laws. We're historians after
all, not secessionists! :)

Capua would be a neat place, only I don't believe it's actually for
sale. What amazes me are the *other* possibilities, which seem to
include a small island or two, land in Canada, and land in Texas. Any
or all would do I think!

This topic has come up before. I've certainly spent plenty of time
researching it before. Only now have some practical pieces of
property come to light... I'm starting to get a little excited! :)

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus




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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Islands >> different ideas
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Mon, 02 Jul 2001 02:23:16 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "Marcus Cassius Julianus" <cassius622@a...> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> Your points are very good, Drusus! And, you've found some of the
> most "possible" land I've ever seen. I confess I'm still going to
> check out Eagle Island, simply because I think it might have
> more "publicity" value in the long run... but I wouldn't turn my nose
> up at land in Texas. Not at all!
>
> You bring the conversation into some interesting aspects. Convenience
> vs. Price is a tough decision! I must say that if what I'm reading is
> correct, we could afford to buy the Texas land almost immediately. I
> could set up a "land fund" this week, and I'm betting we could raise
> more than $500 for a down payment. We'd have to, since we'd want a
> low monthly payment that could *definitely* be kept up between an
> ongoing land fund, donations, macellum sales, etc.
>
> It's not like it would be impossible to buy the land outright with
> almost no financing. $30,000 US divided among 800 people is only
> $37.50 or so each! :)
>
> However, there is one question about the Texas land. Can it be built
> on? It's being sold as "hunting land", meaning there may be caveats
> against any kind of construction.
>
> Vale,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
>
>

Salve,

I haven't been in Texas in the last 11 years, but at that time zoning
laws were virtualy nonexistant. I have no reason to beleave thing have
changed. The Federal Endangered species act could cause problems. I
don't think we would have to worry about the wetlands preservation
laws in the dessert.

I would guess that the main problem with building on this site is
costs. In that area a well could easily cost as much as the land, and
you could wind up paying for a dry hole. The nearest power could be
miles away, making it very expensive to get power lines ran to the
site, this can also easily cost more than the land in that area.

A lot of it depends on how we want to use our first land. If it's just
for the symbolic value of owning some land, then the West Texas land
will do as well as anywhere, for considerably less money than most areas.

If we want to actually build on the land, then we have to be more
selective because we could end up spending more on utilities than we
could have bought land elsewhere with utilities avaible.

Vale
L. Sicinius Drusus




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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Upcomming Milestone
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Sun, 1 Jul 2001 22:20:52 -0400

Salve

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix [mailto:alexious@--------]
> Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 3:56 PM
>
> Oh yes...we generally announce milestones like when we reach the 700th,
> 800th, etc citzens. Dont worry, it will be announced.

Indeed; I tend to make such announcements in the macronational fora such as
alt.politics.micrionations and http://www.micro-nations.org, as well. No
reason not to let the world know about our prosperity!

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
ICQ: 106199729
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org




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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Islands >> different ideas
From:	"Marcus Cassius Julianus" <cassius622@-------->
Date:	Mon, 02 Jul 2001 02:38:06 -0000

Salve,

Wonderful, Drusus! This is the first time in four years the idea of
land seems to be gaining practical ground. I've just now written to
the realtors in Texas... we'll see if they can provide more
information.

It seems to me that we might well have a difficult time finding
truly "usable" land anywhere, at our current budget. Canadian land
might well be as inexpensive as Texas land, and certainly more likely
to have water for basic sanitation... but would be less convenient.

It seems to me that we should get as much info as we can, and then
weigh the pros and cons. Can one or two of our Canadian Citizens
check into "wilderness" land similar to this property being offered
in Texas? Pompeia Strabo? :)

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus






--- In novaroma@--------, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@--------> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> I haven't been in Texas in the last 11 years, but at that time
zoning laws were virtualy nonexistant. I have no reason to beleave
thing have changed. The Federal Endangered species act could cause
problems. I don't think we would have to worry about the wetlands
preservation laws in the dessert.
>
> I would guess that the main problem with building on this site is
> costs. In that area a well could easily cost as much as the land,
and you could wind up paying for a dry hole. The nearest power could
be miles away, making it very expensive to get power lines ran to the
> site, this can also easily cost more than the land in that area.
>
> A lot of it depends on how we want to use our first land. If it's
just for the symbolic value of owning some land, then the West Texas
land will do as well as anywhere, for considerably less money than
most areas.
>
> If we want to actually build on the land, then we have to be more
> selective because we could end up spending more on utilities than we
> could have bought land elsewhere with utilities avaible.
>
> Vale
> L. Sicinius Drusus




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Islands >> different ideas
From:	"Andrew Rielly" <arielly1@-------->
Date:	Sun, 1 Jul 2001 20:19:09 -0700

-----Original Message-----
From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus <lsicinius@-------->
To: novaroma@-------- <novaroma@-------->
Date: Sunday, July 01, 2001 6:30 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Islands >> different ideas


>--- In novaroma@--------, "Marcus Cassius Julianus" <cassius622@a...> wrote:
>
>SNIP
>>
>> I don't mean to rain on your parade, Publicus. If I get to dream
>> about Nova Roma owning a million dollar island in Australia, it's not
>> like I'm the model of practicality myself. The links you found are
>> very cool indeed, merely very expensive to do. I hope you'll forgive
>> me for trying to steer conversation to the more possible areas. There
>> really *isn't* a reason why we couldn't buy a cheap piece of land to
>> start with, and it's good to remember that as well.
>>
>> Valete,
>>
>> Marcus Cassius Julianus
>>
>>
>Salvete Marce Cassi et Omnes,
>
>I have to agree.
>It's fun to dream big, but we have to start somewhere, and for now
>that means settling for more afforadable land. We may be able to raise
>the funds for something like Eagle Island in the near future, and in
>the longer term it can allways be resold, with a good chance of a
>profit at a future date.
>
Madness! Total and complete madness!


When, exactly, did I say we should do the same thing as the websites I
listed? Did I not say that those URL's were something to *think* about?
Why do I bother?

Small is good. But here are a couple other things to *THINK* about.

BioSphere 2 (www.bio2.edu) was built mostly with the funding by one
philanthropist with a vision for the tune of $200 million US.

The Eden Project (www.edenproject.com) is being completed for the price of
$80 million UK.








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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] My posts do not seem to be showing up
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@-------->
Date:	Sun, 01 Jul 2001 20:33:48 -0700

Ave,

I got them.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla

owlsmirror@-------- wrote:
>
> I posted TWO remarks on how I corrected the Via Romana page and ONE
> remark explaining that I am planning a trip to the Mediterranean and
> none of them has appeared. Has anyone received them at all????
>
> Paulina Corva
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Island for Sale...
From:	Decimus Antoninius Aquitanius <romalist2@-------->
Date:	Sun, 1 Jul 2001 21:47:34 -0400 (EDT)

Ave!

In the debate over Nova Roma's possible future land, I
must wholeheartedly agree with the reasoning of our
Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus. Any acceptable piece
of land would be a perfect starting point for NRs move
into the 'real world'. If you look carefully, you can
find a lot of land for a rather 'cheap' price and
heck, you can do a lot with even a couple of acres!




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Islands >> different ideas
From:	"Andrew Rielly" <arielly1@-------->
Date:	Sun, 1 Jul 2001 20:59:34 -0700

-----Original Message-----
From: Marcus Cassius Julianus <cassius622@-------->
To: novaroma@-------- <novaroma@-------->
Date: Sunday, July 01, 2001 5:35 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Islands >> different ideas


>Salvete,
>
>Well, I started this island business, and shouldn't be surprised if
>the ideas tend to grow as we discuss! I am indeed impressed
>with "Long Island" in Australia being larger than some existing
>macronations. Yet it seems important to again point out that the idea
>for a Nova Roman capital has *not* been for us all to move somewhere
>together and "homestead" a utopia.
>
>The vast majority of our Citizens aren't likely to pick up and move
>to some remote area... the idea of Nova Roma, after all, is that
>Roman culture still exists and simply needs "focus" to be alive again
>anywhere in the modern world.
>
The expatriate groups I mentioned typically number 3-7 families. No need
for *everyone* to move there and create some manner of capital. How would
you plan on doing anything with something the size of "Long Island" off
Australia without 15-20 families moving there are pooling resources?

Never mentioned a "utopia", it cannot be expected with humans at this point
in evolution anyway. Only an idiot would think utopia is achievable.
Sometimes the truth is a little harsh. :) My point was that you would need
*someone* to move there just to support any presence like a "capital" other
than a few flags and a sign flying someone's house...

>Having *some* land, even a small bit, would help us in many ways.
>Land is almost universally equated with sovereign status. Having a
>physical place, even if we don't all pick up and move there, would
>show that we are more than just a "cyber experiment". Being able to
>build ANY sort of material expression of our existance - a park, a
>building, a Roman fort, or a forum... would be a huge publicity gain.
>
Great publicity gain, but people seem to have more fun smashing such ideas
rather than putting any effort into making it a reality.

>Oceania is an interesting idea, but it sure is cheaper and easier to
>buy existing land than build your own. Their website says their
>company went into debt just building the *model* of what they want to
>do! Same deal with "Freedomship". Building the largest ship ever to
>float is going to take some doing. A few *billion* dollars is my
>guess, with materials and labor. (Not to mention that I can't imagine
>a ship building facility capable of such a job. There aren't a lot of
>mile-long drydocks around. The Venus Project is if anything even more
>difficult... they only want to redesign *everything* in the world!
>
These links were only put forth as something to read to get into the
appropriate mind set for doing something...anything. Does not matter how
big it is, does not matter if you shoot for something like the Venus Project
and have great success with something 1/100th the scale. There are many
people out there talking about changing the world, creating little enclaves,
etc. Just do it.

People are trying to fund the freedom ship, heck it even appeared in New
Scientist or some such publication, these people are acting on their dreams
and making them a reality. The real question is will anyone here follow the
example or will it just be more talk? From my 6 or so months here I bet on
the latter. :(

>I'll stick with the idea of a cheap small island, myself. And so what
>if it sinks? We just load it with offerings to Neptune, get what
>publicity we can off the event, and move on. Losing a fifty thousand
>dollar piece of land is nothing compared to having a mile long
>pleasure boat or floating city capsize or sink in a hurricane or a
>tsunami! ;)
>
>I don't mean to rain on your parade, Publicus. If I get to dream
>about Nova Roma owning a million dollar island in Australia, it's not
>like I'm the model of practicality myself. The links you found are
>very cool indeed, merely very expensive to do. I hope you'll forgive
>me for trying to steer conversation to the more possible areas. There
>really *isn't* a reason why we couldn't buy a cheap piece of land to
>start with, and it's good to remember that as well.
>

Well, to be perfectly honest the response is expected. I responded to this
in another message though.

>From experience any dream is attainable...depends on how hard you want to
work at it, I say if you want to spearhead buying a $1.2 million US island
off Australia then great, go for it and with enough energy it *will* be
practical...look at all the things humans have achieved when they put their
minds to it...this is *not* a huge problem compared with some of the
others...time, effort and resources (people, money, etc)...

{snip}




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Subject:	[novaroma] Islands?
From:	gcassiusnerva@--------
Date:	Mon, 2 Jul 2001 00:01:25 EDT

Nova Roma is almost 1000 citizens now. But of this number, how many are
actually active in some meaningful sense of the term? I asked one of the
censors for a rough guess and he suggested probably about 300.

So let's assume 500 instead. How many of 500 would be willing to contribute
1000 dollars to an island purchase? Assuming you get even this response you
would have only 500,000 dollars. You might be able to make a *downpayment*
on an island. But then there is other small matters, like hiring an
architect and a contractor to see to the building of the Forum. And then
there are the cost of building supplies, labor, housing for the people who
will want to live there, accomodations for visitors.....and you do not even
have the funds for the downpayment yet.

And as for the expatriate familes who would live there....unless they are
millionaires willing to foot the bill, this means we will be buying them a
home. This is not high on my agenda, as I am sure most will understand.

I don't mean to drop a turd in the punchbowl, but this talk of islands and
forums is way too premature, isn't it?

Gaius Cassius Nerva


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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Islands?
From:	"Andrew Rielly" <arielly1@-------->
Date:	Sun, 1 Jul 2001 22:02:31 -0700

-----Original Message-----
From: gcassiusnerva@-------- <gcassiusnerva@-------->
To: novaroma@-------- <novaroma@-------->
Date: Sunday, July 01, 2001 9:37 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Islands?


> Nova Roma is almost 1000 citizens now. But of this number, how many
are
>actually active in some meaningful sense of the term? I asked one of the
>censors for a rough guess and he suggested probably about 300.
>
>So let's assume 500 instead. How many of 500 would be willing to
contribute
>1000 dollars to an island purchase? Assuming you get even this response
you
>would have only 500,000 dollars. You might be able to make a *downpayment*
>on an island. But then there is other small matters, like hiring an
>architect and a contractor to see to the building of the Forum. And then
>there are the cost of building supplies, labor, housing for the people who
>will want to live there, accomodations for visitors.....and you do not even
>have the funds for the downpayment yet.
>
>And as for the expatriate familes who would live there....unless they are
>millionaires willing to foot the bill, this means we will be buying them a
>home. This is not high on my agenda, as I am sure most will understand.
>
Why can't these people provide more than the $1000 you are asking of from
all the other assumed active cives? Not to mention contributing labor and
skills in the building and continued operation of whatever place is built
for the good of NR.

I would not be interested at all in supporting people who are just in need
of a home. But look at another group that does similar things...Christian
churches routinely provide housing to the ministers, preachers, whatever the
particular variation calls them. If someone is there running a public front
for the benefit of all should they not at least have help with
housing/income? But hey, if they are freeloading, kick 'em out and have
someone else move in, this is no utopia.

{snip}




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Subject:	[novaroma] Islands State question
From:	"Gaius Marcius Coriolanus" <coriolanus@-------->
Date:	Mon, 02 Jul 2001 07:21:55 -0000

Quirites

It is really interesting to see and read the Islands mail storm.

So, let's suppose we've just bought it. What are the possibilities to
build there a real international known and accepted republic? I mean
international law standards, UN and other possible requirements?

I must admit, that I'm sceptic about it but it will be really
wonderfull to have a piece of own land an Nova Roma passport one day.

Ave et Vale

Gaius Marcius Coriolanus

"Censer Carthagine esse delendam "







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Subject:	[novaroma] Islands, lands and housing.
From:	"Aulus Sertorius" <aulus_sertorius@-------->
Date:	Mon, 02 Jul 2001 00:29:27 -0500

Salve,

About where we might acquire land. I really think Canada would be much better than Texas just on account of local resources. If one was to get a plot of land in Canada one would have access to lots of timber, fresh water and local wildlife for food. Not to mention that the soil could be plowed and one could grow crops rather easily. Texas on the other hand, well how much timber is available, is the soil any good for growing and is there much wildlife? I think it would cost a lot less to have it in Canada because everything would be in Canadian dollars, hence it would be cheap. And if one wanted to, you could live solely off the local wilderness.

About housing. Why would our little community need to be modern? Why couldn't we build our homes of timber, stone and clay? Why couldn't we live like the ancient Romans? We don't -need- all these modern things like dishwashers, TV's and computers. If we lived off the land our time would be spent growing food, hunting and maintaining our community. If we lived like this, it would cost barely a thing. We wouldn't pay for electricity, fuel or for any food. But then again, how many of us would -want- to live like our ancestors? I know I would, and probably when I'm older I will build myself a log cabin out in the boonies and live off the land like nature intended. But I guess with all our modern comforts and items that improve our lives we loose sight of how our ancestors lived, and I guess it seems hard for some to imagine a world with little technology. Another biggie is that if we lived like this we would need no financial support from Nova Roma once we were established.

I'm wondering if anyone else would be interested in living like pioneers? Much like what the folks on Pioneer Quest, a Canadian version of Survivor, went through?


---
-Aulus Sertorius Doctus
"Doctus Maximus!"


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Subject:	[novaroma] Provincia Italia
From:	manius_constantinus_serapio@--------
Date:	Mon, 02 Jul 2001 09:08:51 -0000

AVETE OMNES!

there is a new mailing list for Provincia Italia without any
restriction! People interested in this Provincia can subscribe
immediately!

Novaroma-Italia
NR_Italia@--------
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nr_italia

gratias!

VALETE MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Islands, lands and housing.
From:	gcassiusnerva@--------
Date:	Mon, 2 Jul 2001 06:51:57 EDT

Salve Doctus,

So, in other words, NR is to invest a few million so you can make like
Thoreau and "take to the woods?"

Sorry if this seems flippant. I try to remain rooted on terra firma,
and it is somewhat distressing to see that the two posts which so far respond
to mine ignore the main point of my previous post, and focus on one minor
point about the residents of this hypothetical island.

The main point was that NR is nowehere near ready to even think about
this. Everyone else may fantasize if they like, but I will not spend so much
as one sesterce in such an endeavor which shows no sign of yeilding any
return. A couple of million so that a few families can sit on an island and
pray to the gods? My money will be safter in the stock market.

Nerva


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Islands, lands and housing.
From:	"Raina Faolan" <GuruPoet@-------->
Date:	Mon, 02 Jul 2001 07:04:17 -0400

Salvete,

Thoreau and the transcendentalist period. Brings back fond memories. Okay
that was slightly irrelevant. My personal thoughts on moving to an island,
as long as my parents cannot find me, sounds lovely.

Pax,
Aeternia


>From: gcassiusnerva@--------
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: novaroma@--------
>Subject: Re: [novaroma] Islands, lands and housing.
>Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 06:51:57 EDT
>
>Salve Doctus,
>
> So, in other words, NR is to invest a few million so you can make
>like
>Thoreau and "take to the woods?"
>
> Sorry if this seems flippant. I try to remain rooted on terra firma,
>and it is somewhat distressing to see that the two posts which so far
>respond
>to mine ignore the main point of my previous post, and focus on one minor
>point about the residents of this hypothetical island.
>
> The main point was that NR is nowehere near ready to even think about
>this. Everyone else may fantasize if they like, but I will not spend so
>much
>as one sesterce in such an endeavor which shows no sign of yeilding any
>return. A couple of million so that a few families can sit on an island
>and
>pray to the gods? My money will be safter in the stock market.
>
>Nerva
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Islands?
From:	"Marcus Cassius Julianus" <cassius622@-------->
Date:	Mon, 02 Jul 2001 11:59:36 -0000

Salvete,

The chance that a large mass of Citizens would immediately contribute
a huge sum of money to buy a piece of property is extremely slim.
What *could* happen is that the establishment of a "land fund" could
get together enough for a respectable down payment. The land in Texas
that Drusus has mentioned is financed at $315 a month, with only a
$500 down payment. Suppose the down was more like $3000? or $5000?
We'd be financing less and payments would be lower.

We'd of course keep the "land fund" going, and thereby make it
possible to make payments.

I will try to get a Land Fund going this week. We'll see what happens!

Valete,

Marcus Casius Julianus


--- In novaroma@--------, gcassiusnerva@c... wrote:
> Nova Roma is almost 1000 citizens now. But of this number, how
many are
> actually active in some meaningful sense of the term? I asked one
of the
> censors for a rough guess and he suggested probably about 300.
>
> So let's assume 500 instead. How many of 500 would be willing to
contribute
> 1000 dollars to an island purchase? Assuming you get even this
response you
> would have only 500,000 dollars. You might be able to make a
*downpayment*
> on an island. But then there is other small matters, like hiring
an
> architect and a contractor to see to the building of the Forum.
And then
> there are the cost of building supplies, labor, housing for the
people who
> will want to live there, accomodations for visitors.....and you do
not even
> have the funds for the downpayment yet.
>
> And as for the expatriate familes who would live there....unless
they are
> millionaires willing to foot the bill, this means we will be buying
them a
> home. This is not high on my agenda, as I am sure most will
understand.
>
> I don't mean to drop a turd in the punchbowl, but this talk of
islands and
> forums is way too premature, isn't it?
>
> Gaius Cassius Nerva
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Islands >> different ideas
From:	"Pompeia Cornelia Strabo" <scriba_forum@-------->
Date:	Mon, 02 Jul 2001 12:17:53 -0000

>From: "Marcus Cassius Julianus" <cassius622@-------->
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: novaroma@--------
>Subject: [novaroma] Re: Islands >> different ideas
>Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 02:38:06 -0000
>
>Salve Honoured Consul:

You wrote:
>
>It seems to me that we should get as much info as we can, and then
>weigh the pros and cons. Can one or two of our Canadian Citizens
>check into "wilderness" land similar to this property being offered
>in Texas? Pompeia Strabo? :)

We shall look into it for you.

Valete,
Pompeia
>
>Valete,
>
>Marcus Cassius Julianus
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--- In novaroma@--------, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@--------> wrote:
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > I haven't been in Texas in the last 11 years, but at that time
>zoning laws were virtualy nonexistant. I have no reason to beleave
>thing have changed. The Federal Endangered species act could cause
>problems. I don't think we would have to worry about the wetlands
>preservation laws in the dessert.
> >
> > I would guess that the main problem with building on this site is
> > costs. In that area a well could easily cost as much as the land,
>and you could wind up paying for a dry hole. The nearest power could
>be miles away, making it very expensive to get power lines ran to the
> > site, this can also easily cost more than the land in that area.
> >
> > A lot of it depends on how we want to use our first land. If it's
>just for the symbolic value of owning some land, then the West Texas
>land will do as well as anywhere, for considerably less money than
>most areas.
> >
> > If we want to actually build on the land, then we have to be more
> > selective because we could end up spending more on utilities than we
> > could have bought land elsewhere with utilities avaible.
> >
> > Vale
> > L. Sicinius Drusus
>

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Subject:	[novaroma] Ordo Equester
From:	"Lucius Equitius" <vze23hw7@-------->
Date:	Mon, 2 Jul 2001 10:09:33 -0400

ExDomoCensorLEquituisCincinnatusOmnibusQuiritibusSPD

I am pleased to announce that Laurencius Cassius et Varia Cassia
have been approved for inclusion into the Ordo Equester.

La Wren's Nest http://www.lawrensnest.com/roman.html
should be available on the Macellum page http://www.novaroma.org/macellum/
soon.

Bene omnibus nobis


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Islands >> different ideas
From:	labienus@--------
Date:	Mon, 2 Jul 2001 09:10:04 US/Central

Salvete

> Wonderful, Drusus! This is the first time in four years the idea of
> land seems to be gaining practical ground.

I'd say that this is actually the third time I've seen practical suggestions
for land acquisition. The first was an offer by a civis to buy Texas land at
very reasonable rates through opportunities given to veterans. (If you're a US
veteran, look into the aid Uncle Sam will give you when buying property. It's
worth your while.) The second was an offer of land in Louisiana (IIRC) that
was already owned by a civis. This is, however, the first time I've seen any
indication of the will necessary to carry the project to fruition.

> I've just now written to the realtors in Texas... we'll see if they can
> provide more information.

Here in TX, "hunting land" usually just means that the property is utterly
undeveloped, often including no roads for easy access. One thing to look at is
whether or not the land is surrounded by other people's property; we might have
difficulty getting to our land and developing it if that's so.

L Sicinius is correct about TX land laws. There are very few restrictions
placed on developing rural private property that would impact us unless we're
planning to drill oil wells or grow fields of poppies.

> It seems to me that we might well have a difficult time finding
> truly "usable" land anywhere, at our current budget. Canadian land
> might well be as inexpensive as Texas land, and certainly more likely
> to have water for basic sanitation... but would be less convenient.

Don't overestimate the convenience of Texas land. Parts of west Texas are
quite barren and rugged, with tens of miles of desert between them and
civilization. (If one can grace small west TX towns with that word.) Such a
purchase, like Eagle Island, would most likely be primarily for show.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus





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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Islands?
From:	labienus@--------
Date:	Mon, 2 Jul 2001 09:29:04 US/Central

Salvete C Cassi omnesque

> Assuming you get even this response you would have only 500,000 dollars.
> You might be able to make a *downpayment* on an island.

It has been amply shown that $500K US would be more than enough to buy some
islands. We also seem to have come to the reasonable conclusion that it would
be better to buy property inland, due to the increase in construction costs
that an island involves.

> But then there is other small matters, like hiring an architect and a
> contractor to see to the building of the Forum. And then there are the
> cost of building supplies, labor, housing for the people who will want to
> live there, accomodations for visitors.....and you do not even have the
> funds for the downpayment yet.

Obtaining the funds for the land is quite possible. Construction costs will be
a little harder, but the land won't go anywhere. Given five or ten years of
saving and wise investment, three or four hundred people could quite easily get
together enough money for the equivalent of a large farmhouse on a reasonably-
sized piece of land. All it requires is the collective will to do it, which we
have not had to date.

> And as for the expatriate familes who would live there....unless they are
> millionaires willing to foot the bill, this means we will be buying them a
> home. This is not high on my agenda, as I am sure most will understand.

This touches on the main problem with the land purchase. Before we spend any
money, we should all be firmly aware of the purpose of the land, and how it
will be used to fulfill that purpose. If it's to provide a campground
and "show forum" like some Renaissance festival fairgrounds, then we will need
someplace that is both accessible and attractive. If it's simply to actually
own land, then anywhere in a country that doesn't charge ruinous property taxes
will do.

> I don't mean to drop a turd in the punchbowl, but this talk of islands and
> forums is way too premature, isn't it?

No. One of Nova Roma's stated objectives is to own land, in order to create a
Mecca of sorts for practitioners of the religio. We should, therefore, talk
about this until such time as we manage to come up with both a viable plan of
action and the collective will to make it happen. Otherwise, we'll just keep
putting it off in perpetuity.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus





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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Island for Sale...
From:	ksterne@--------
Date:	Mon, 02 Jul 2001 15:20:19 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@--------> wrote:
>>Salvete Omnes,

While I love the idea of buying an island, I would prefer one with a
milder climate than a Northern Island. Toga's and Canadian winters
don't seem like a good match<<

Salvete,

Hahahahah! My Brother from the "South of the USA" echos the first
thing I thought when I read Marcus Cassius' post. I'm all for
chipping in, but something a little warmer, please.

(No offense to our Canadian cives the the "Great White North"
Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!)

Valete,
Gaius Popillius Laenas




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Islands, lands and housing.
From:	"Andrew Rielly" <arielly1@-------->
Date:	Mon, 2 Jul 2001 08:42:51 -0700

-----Original Message-----
From: gcassiusnerva@-------- <gcassiusnerva@-------->
To: novaroma@-------- <novaroma@-------->
Date: Monday, July 02, 2001 3:52 AM
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Islands, lands and housing.


>Salve Doctus,
>
> So, in other words, NR is to invest a few million so you can make like
>Thoreau and "take to the woods?"
>
> Sorry if this seems flippant. I try to remain rooted on terra firma,
>and it is somewhat distressing to see that the two posts which so far
respond
>to mine ignore the main point of my previous post, and focus on one minor
>point about the residents of this hypothetical island.
>
Hehe, actually my point in the reply was that if families would decide to do
this they should pay for the bulk of it...but support could come from
others who are financially able, willing to donate AND see positive real
world results.

Listen to the music and not the song....

Publicus




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Islands, lands and housing.
From:	"Marcus Darius Ursus" <marcus_darius@-------->
Date:	Mon, 02 Jul 2001 09:45:32 -0600

Salve,

Living off the land sounds great. Anything to get away from the rat race
where I live called Calgary. Also, it would probably help me get into shape,
rather than sit and watch telvision.

Vale,

Marcus Darius Ursus
Paterfamilias Daria
Legatus Militum, Canada Occidentalis
Legatus, Regio of Athabasca
--------------------------
marcus_darius@--------
Bellerophon@--------
ICQ: 83821138


>From: "Aulus Sertorius" <aulus_sertorius@-------->
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: novaroma@--------
>Subject: [novaroma] Islands, lands and housing.
>Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 00:29:27 -0500
>
>Salve,
>
>About where we might acquire land. I really think Canada would be much
>better than Texas just on account of local resources. If one was to get a
>plot of land in Canada one would have access to lots of timber, fresh water
>and local wildlife for food. Not to mention that the soil could be plowed
>and one could grow crops rather easily. Texas on the other hand, well how
>much timber is available, is the soil any good for growing and is there
>much wildlife? I think it would cost a lot less to have it in Canada
>because everything would be in Canadian dollars, hence it would be cheap.
>And if one wanted to, you could live solely off the local wilderness.
>
>About housing. Why would our little community need to be modern? Why
>couldn't we build our homes of timber, stone and clay? Why couldn't we live
>like the ancient Romans? We don't -need- all these modern things like
>dishwashers, TV's and computers. If we lived off the land our time would be
>spent growing food, hunting and maintaining our community. If we lived like
>this, it would cost barely a thing. We wouldn't pay for electricity, fuel
>or for any food. But then again, how many of us would -want- to live like
>our ancestors? I know I would, and probably when I'm older I will build
>myself a log cabin out in the boonies and live off the land like nature
>intended. But I guess with all our modern comforts and items that improve
>our lives we loose sight of how our ancestors lived, and I guess it seems
>hard for some to imagine a world with little technology. Another biggie is
>that if we lived like this we would need no financial support from Nova
>Roma once we were established.
>
>I'm wondering if anyone else would be interested in living like pioneers?
>Much like what the folks on Pioneer Quest, a Canadian version of Survivor,
>went through?
>
>
>---
>-Aulus Sertorius Doctus
>"Doctus Maximus!"
>
>
>Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail
>account at http://www.eudoramail.com




_________________________________________________________________________
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Subject:	[novaroma] More about Islands
From:	Iulia66198@--------
Date:	Mon, 02 Jul 2001 13:21:16 EDT

My esteemed Pater wrote:

<<Land would quite literally "put us on the map". I truly believe that
if promoted right, it would bring us a huge gain in interest,
Citizens, and opportunities. The only trick is finding something we
can affort to buy, and maintain. In that respect a less desirable
location and a climate harsh at times might just be helpful to us.>>

This might help. I'm subbed to this list, but haven't paid for a subscription. I don't know how legitimate it is, but thought I'd forward this on.

Valete,
Iulia Cassia

**************************

YOUR OWN PRIVATE ISLAND ESCAPE

Dear Reader,

Right now, Paradise can be yours. There are still miles of coastline around
the
world where unspoiled natural beauty, secluded beaches, friendly people, and
a
relaxed way of life are waiting for you. And you don't have to spend a
fortune
to own it. In fact: This is the best time in decades to invest in beachfront
property...

YOUR DOLLAR GOES FURTHER THAN EVER

Indeed, the U.S. dollar is stronger than it has been for two decades. That
means you can travel longer--and better--than ever...retire better...and
invest
more profitably...in beachfront properties all over the globe.

Right now, your U.S. dollars will go a long way, especially in exotic island
destinations like Sardinia, Cyprus, Malta, and the Canaries... And they
stretch
far, too, along unspoiled, white-sand beaches in Barbados, the Bahamas, the
Turks and Caicos, the Dominican Republic, St. Lucia, Provo...

In one Caribbean hideaway we know, $18,000 will buy you white sand and
blue-green water, a private retreat in a place where property values are
appreciating so quickly your investment could be worth several times what you
paid for it in a handful of years.

One couple we know from Minnesota traveled to a little-known destination we'd
told them about. They got out of their 4X4 at the top of a low cliff
overlooking the ocean. The sun was glistening white off the waves, the sound
of
the surf echoed from the cliff wall. They felt as if they were standing at
the
end of the world. (Really, they were a 40-minute drive from the capital city
and its international airport.)

But they had found a true retreat, an honest-to-goodness paradise smack in
the
middle of the 20th century. The kind of place you can't find anymore in the
States. Comparable coastal property in California? You'd pay more than a
million dollars for a lot...if you could find one...and you'd have neighbors
living close on either side.

These folks bought two lots at $13,000 each a year ago. And, already, that
investment has doubled in value. A buyer just offered them twice what they
paid.

And there are many more opportunities like these:

*** On the Caribbean island of Roatan off the coast of Honduras, you can own
a
private half-acre lot with spectacular sea views and road access for $35,000.

*** In the Turks and Caicos, we found 2/3 of an acre for sale on a deep-water
canal with ocean access and a boat dock at your front door...yours for
$33,000.

*** A charming three-bedroom home with views over Natewa Bay, Fiji, on 24
oceanfront acres is an ideal retirement retreat or income-producing rental.
The
land is planted with coconut palms, and the house is surrounded by a
spectacular flower garden. The asking price? A steal at $165,000.

SECLUSION...SAFETY...LUXURIOUS LIVING...AND SMART INVESTING

In the destinations I'm thinking of, there are no traffic jams. No pushing
and
shoving crowds. Crime is almost unheard of. The governments are stable and
welcoming. Passersby greet you with waves and warm smiles.

In these places, the price for a private villa or condominium with a pool,
luxuriant gardens, and a magnificent sea view is far less than what you'd pay
for a similar property on the Florida or California coast.

Annual real estate taxes are non-existent...or a small fraction of what most
U.S. homeowners pay now for similar properties. And today you can find more
properties to choose from. Financing can be easier to obtain. And interest
rates are lower than at any time since the 1970s.

How do you find these places? You'll learn all about them in a series of
special reports I'd like to send you--pages and pages of useful, timely,
unique, and profitable how-to advice like:

*** Where to get the best buys on Pacific-coast property...Caribbean
beachfront...islands and inland...hillside sea views and surfside
waterfront...all for much less than you'd pay in the U.S. and for properties
that will be worth much more in the years to come.

*** Which Caribbean island is the safest place for you to live...where
residents don't lock their doors...and where crime is almost unheard of...

*** What places to avoid...where crime has become a huge problem...where
drug-running is the national pastime...where fires and hurricanes are most
likely to destroy your home...

*** Where in the islands your business will be 100% exempt from property tax
and gross receipts tax...100% exempt from the excise tax on materials use in
manufacturing or construction...even 100% exempt from local corporate income
tax...

HOW TO LIVE IN THE WORLD'S TOP ISLAND PARADISES

You see, for more than 15 years, we've been on the ground researching the
world's best beachfront destinations...uncovering those hidden places where
you
can live luxuriously for much less than you ever could back home.

We'll tell you what to look for...and look out for...when you're shopping for
beachfront property. We'll tell you who to contact...what questions to
ask...what you should pay...how much your taxes will be...and much more...

We give you the practical foundation you need to build a life for yourself in
Paradise. In each ISLAND PROPERTIES REPORT, we profile one island where you
should consider investing, retiring, owning a vacation property, or maybe
spending a few months a year. We go through all the details you need to know:
cost of living, politics, available properties, local taxes, and more.

We're able to track down for you all the current, on-the-ground details you
need. You see, over the past 15 years we've developed an extensive network of
real estate contacts: agents, attorneys, bankers, developers, and resident
expatriates who live and work on islands all over the world, people who will
give you the straight story about the best beachfront property deals, the
newest tax laws, the most confidential offshore banking facilities, and
day-to-day life.

There's a woman on St. Lucia, for example, who operates a world-famous crafts
business...a hydroponics gardener who sells his produce to residents and to
restaurants and hotels on neighboring islands...another who operates a
mountain
lodge and retreat on the tiny island of Vieques...and a couple who bought and
operate a thriving tapestries workshop. You'll read about how they have
created
income-producing businesses...and run them successfully from their island
homes. And you'll learn, too, about other smart investment opportunities like
these that you can take advantage of right now. We'll detail them for you in
our special series of reports. For example:

*** Where you can enjoy your own 30-acre retreat...a three-bedroom home with
appliances and satellite TV, a guesthouse, 5 acres planted with coffee and
fruit trees, three brooks running through the property...plus easy access on
trails and roads...all for less than $175,000.

"IT WOULD TAKE AN ACT OF CONGRESS TO GET ME OFF THIS ISLAND!"

If you're fed up with doing housework and maintaining a yard...you can stop.
In
our favorite destinations, you can hire your own maid and gardener...at
salaries that fit your household budget. We'll tell you how.

If you're tired of bundling up in wool sweaters and paying through the teeth
for winter fuel bills...put all that behind you. You can live luxuriously in
a
house right on the beach for much less than you might imagine. We'll tell you
how.

Every year, hundreds of our readers take advantage of the valuable
information
they read in ISLAND PROPERTIES REPORT and take action. They rent a house for
a
few months on an island to see if they'll like living there...or they buy a
lot
right on the beach where the breezes are steady and the sun is always
warm...or
they open a store in an island capital...or they invest in a large tract of
land to farm. Invariably, we hear from these friends who say they've never
been
happier. One wrote last week to say, "It would take an Act of Congress to get
me off this island!"

So...where should you start your search? Here are just four of our choices
for
right now:

1.) THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC. One of our correspondents, traveling in the
Dominican Republic as I write this, sent an e-mail last week to tell us: "I
flew into Santo Domingo last night, rented a car, and drove to the city's
Zona
Colonial, the oldest European settlement in the Americas. If you're looking
for
colonial architecture, it doesn't get any better than this. The colonial
district, which represents just a small part of one of the fastest-growing
cities in the Caribbean, contains the oldest European fort in the Americas.
The
best part is: These centuries-old properties are going for as little as
$40,000.

Plus, right now, the island's government is making a very special offer:

The government, I've learned, owns a great deal of land in the western half
of
the country (toward the Haitian border). And they've decided to give away
chunks of it to aspiring entrepreneurs. They're open to any proposal...and
are
offering not only the free land...but also a 20-year tax holiday and
government
money to pay for roads to your site.

2.) THE BAHAMAS. There's no denying it. With their soft, white-sand beaches
and
emerald water...palm trees and sunshine...these islands constitute most
peoples' idea of paradise. But aren't they over-developed and over-priced,
you
may be wondering? Certainly, Nassau and Paradise Island can't be called
undiscovered?

True enough. But there are hundreds of islands in the Bahamas archipelago.
Forget Nassau. Look instead to the Out Islands of this chain. These are some
of
the most beautiful in all the Caribbean. Plus, they're safe and easily
accessible from the United States...and the people living on them speak
English. And, through June 2002, special building incentives allow you to
import all your construction goods duty-free...which could save you 35% off
the
cost of building here.

There's another, emerging opportunity in the Bahamas, related to the change
in
its status as a tax haven...and the near devastation of the dot.com market.
As
a result to legislative changes made just this past year, the Bahamas,
recognized for two decades as one of the world's top privacy and tax
havens...is no longer attractive as such. And money is leaving. People who
have
kept their money in Bahamian bank accounts...are moving it to other
jurisdictions.

One reason the real estate market in the Bahamas has been so inflated is
because people who kept their money in bank accounts here...also owned
houses.
These people, though, as I explained, have begun to leave, taking their money
with them...and putting their houses up for sale.

Other houses are coming on to the market for another reason. The dot.com'ers
need cash. Some of them who own houses in this part of the world are trying
to
liquidate. I spoke with one reader recently who was on his way to meet with
the
owner of just one such property...hoping to make a deal.

3.) CYPRUS. If a Mediterranean island home is on your shopping list, you
won't
beat Cyprus for value. Get this: A studio for $16,500; a 2-bedroom terraced
house for $30,000; a 3-bedroom bungalow for $50,000. And you can rent a
1-bedroom furnished apartment for as little as $165 per month. Our
correspondent, visiting recently, reported, Cyprus offers the "CHEAPEST
PROPERTIES ANYWHERE IN THE MED!"

4.) THE BAY ISLANDS, HONDURAS. The Kempinski Hotel group announced last month
at a Chamber of Commerce meeting in Tegucigalpa (the capital of Honduras, on
the mainland) that it has plans to build a five-star resort on the little Bay
Island of Guanaja, with construction beginning perhaps as early as this
summer.
The Iguana Bay Kempinski Resort will cost around $11.3 million to build, is
scheduled to open in early 2003, and will feature 36 luxuriously secluded
bungalows and villas, each with its own private garden and ocean view. The
nightly tariff? About $1,500.

This project will change the landscape on Guanaja--literally and
figuratively.
Right now, though, you can still get in at reasonable prices. We'll tell you
where to look...and how much to spend.

EVERY DECEMBER: OUR ANNUAL CARIBBEAN REAL ESTATE SURVEY

In the coming year, we'll publish reports on many more islands offering
extraordinary opportunities for the alert buyer. And by joining us now,
you'll
receive our Annual Caribbean Real Estate Survey--probably the most avidly
read
of all our reports.

You'll get up-to-date facts and figures on the market for houses, land, and
condos on all major islands. Where properties are appreciating, where they're
not. Current prices, hot new areas, trends bound to affect sales...

For example: Land on the Windward Island, one of the most beautiful you'll
ever
find, is for sale at below 1992 prices but, in the opinion of many, poised
for
a take-off. On a neighboring island, major new hotel construction should
dramatically impact future real estate values. On another, prices for homes
and
condos are 15% to 18% below those demanded in the 1980s, and financing rates
at
are record low levels.

You'll get all the facts in our reports. Join us, and we'll take you on an
insider's tour of virtually every inhabited island in the Caribbean and the
Bahamas, the Mediterranean, even the South Seas. You'll learn which islands
offer you the beauty and serenity few now dare dream about...and which ones
you
may well want to avoid.

We've learned the hard way about hidden costs and restrictions that can
entangle and trap you. Please...let us help you benefit from our experience.

YES, WE'VE MADE SOME ENEMIES

Reporting like this has triggered the wrath of certain real estate
interests...but we couldn't care less. It just shows we're doing our job. Our
only loyalty is to you.

As a subscriber, you'll get 12 Special Reports a year. Eight reports profile
specific islands or island groups. Here, without frills or hype, are the
plain
facts about:

*** POLITICS. How stable? Any problems you should pay attention to? How
friendly is the government to foreign home buyers? Would you have difficulty
repatriating your money if you decide to sell?

*** THE ECONOMY. Headed up or down? What about inflation? Unemployment? What
incentives will the government offer you to start a business?

*** THE PROCESS OF BUYING PROPERTY. Everything you need to know about
landholding licenses, purchasing procedures, securing clear title, closing
costs and realtor's commissions, taxes and insurance costs, who to contact at
which government agency, how to get help... Plus typical prices for a home,
condo, or homesite and square-footage costs to build.

*** FINANCING. Can you get a mortgage? Where? At what rate? What are your
other
options?

*** QUALITY OF LIFE. All about sports, recreation, churches, volunteer
groups...quality and availability of health care...our ratings on the quality
of schools, utilities, roads, water quality and supply, phone and mail
service,
what you need to know to bring a pet with you...what you'd pay a maid, a
gardener...

*** COST OF LIVING. Typical restaurant and supermarket prices and what foods
you'll find...the cost of a car to buy or import... Other day-to-day
expenses.
How smart expatriates have learned to enjoy life at a fraction of their old
Stateside budgets.

*** BUSINESS INVESTMENT OPPORTUNITIES. What types of businesses are needed,
government incentives, labor costs, contacts, the investment outlook...

You'll also receive, four times a year, Quarterly Regional Reports. These
Special Reports feature articles covering the entire Caribbean...updates on
your favorite islands...real estate overviews, case histories of people who
are
living their dreams in the Islands (and details on how they did it)...travel
news and discounts...plus money-saving tips on buying, building, importing
furniture and appliances, maintaining, repairing, insuring, and renting out
your island home...

PLUS...YOUR PERSONAL TRAVEL AGENT...TO HELP YOU PLAN YOUR ISLAND ADVENTURE

Rent a villa and explore the islands...to taste the "island living
experience"
before you buy.

Or maybe you just want to enjoy an unforgettable Caribbean holiday in your
own
private vacation-rental villa.

As a subscriber, you can choose from hundreds of the Caribbean's most
beautiful
homes. We'll tell you how in a special "Welcome Package" we'll send you
filled
with special FREE bonuses.

With a single toll-free phone call, you can order full information about
destinations that interest you. Then you can book your selection including
airfare at the lowest available rates.

Our travel director, Barbara Perriello, and her associates have traveled
extensively throughout the Caribbean and Central America, so they can answer
your specific questions and take care of your special requests. (If you've
ever
tried to plan a vacation through a travel agent who's never traveled to the
destination you're interested in, then you can appreciate the value of this
personal, knowledgeable service.)

HOW TO BUY A PRIVATE ISLAND

Because we have right now in our offices details of specific island
properties
for sale that we think you'd like to know about...we'll also include in your
special Welcome Package a special FREE report called "HOW TO BUY A PRIVATE
ISLAND--A GUIDE TO OWNERSHIP." This exclusive report not only details a
discriminating listing of islands currently on offer the world over...but it
also gives you all the information you need related to financing, foreign
ownership of island properties, and such important practicalities as weather,
water supply, accessibility, and telecommunications.

This report is supplemented by a second new special report we've just
produced
on island-living and island-hopping called "YOUR NEW LIFE IN THE
CARIBBEAN--STARTING OVER IN THE ISLANDS." This exclusive, step-by-step,
how-to
guide to island living includes details of:

*** one of the best real estate deals to be had today in the Bahamas...on
Andros, near the Emerald Palms Resort, where you can buy a large beachfront
lot
for a mere $19,500...and you don't have to pay outright if you don't want to.
Financing is available. $500 down...$337 a month.

*** how to maximize your island property rental income, including the three
most common and most effective rental programs...and the pros and cons of
each
one. Plus...the best way to advertise and promote your island property
rental...a simple two-step program that we've found to produce the best
results...

Both reports are yours FREE.

Furthermore, if you sign up now, you can take advantage of a special rate and
pay just $89 for a one-year subscription (a savings of more than 25% off the
regular one-year rate) or just $139 for a two-year subscription (a discount
of
42% off the regular two-year rate).

ESCAPE to the islands.

With our help.

Follow this url to sign up now:
https://www.agora-inc.com/secure/form1.cfm?pubcode=ipr&pcode=wipgn2&alias=all

I look forward to welcoming you as a new subscriber.

Sincerely,

Kathleen Peddicord
Publisher, ISLAND PROPERTIES REPORT

P.S. If you've ever thought about living on an island...escaping to island
paradise...or owning your own place in the island sunshine...you owe it to
yourself to investigate now, while the dollar is at a high we may not see
again
in our lifetimes. For anyone shopping with dollars...this is an incredible
buyer's market. Let us help you take advantage of it...to make your island
dreams come true. Follow this url now for details on how to start your
subscription:
https://www.agora-inc.com/secure/form1.cfm?pubcode=ipr&pcode=wipgn2&alias=all


*******
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Ordo Equester
From:	"Julie & Lawrence Brooks" <anubis@-------->
Date:	Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:21:02 -0400

Thanks very much.

Laurencius & Varia

----- Original Message -----
From: Lucius Equitius
To: Nova Roma ; NovaRomaAnnounce@--------
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 10:09 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Ordo Equester


ExDomoCensorLEquituisCincinnatusOmnibusQuiritibusSPD

I am pleased to announce that Laurencius Cassius et Varia Cassia
have been approved for inclusion into the Ordo Equester.

La Wren's Nest http://www.lawrensnest.com/roman.html
should be available on the Macellum page http://www.novaroma.org/macellum/
soon.

Bene omnibus nobis


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Canadian Island for Sale...
From:	Caius Licinius Macer Gallia <john@-------->
Date:	Mon, 02 Jul 2001 11:24:12 -0500

Lucius Sicinius Drusus wrote:

> Salve Marce Cassi,
>
> There is another posibility of aquiring an island besides purchase.
> That is creating an Artifical island. This is discussed in Rene
> Kardol's Masters Thesis which can be read at
>
> http://www.luf.org/artisle.html
>
> With a sumary at
>
> http://www.distant-star.com/issue10/june_99_kardol.htm
>
> We are in a better postion than most groups that wish to obtain a
> sovereign island. According to one school of thought the colonists for
> an artifical island would not qualify as a nation because "There would
> be no shared history, traditions, religions, ethnicities, or cultures
> on which to base this new nation." Nova Roma certainly dosen't have
> this problem because we have all execpt common ethnicities, a trait
> that we share with many existing Macro Nations.
>
> Vale,
> L. Sicinius Drusus

The concept of generating a micronation within another country seems to be
perfectly fine with the United States government, as they have seen fit to
allow several independant "nations" to be established by the Native
populations, and then various immigrant populations (which, technically,
anyone who isn't a so-called Native, is an immigrant) such as the Menonites
and Quakers, have created their own autonomous collectives. Obviously this
is something that we could entertain as a possibility due to our foundation
of culture, heritage, and ultimately religious views. The religious aspect
is what would be our greatest standing ground.

C. Licinius Macer Gallia




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Canadian Island for Sale...
From:	Maximina Octavia <myownq@-------->
Date:	Mon, 2 Jul 2001 10:42:12 -0700 (PDT)

Lucius Sicinius Drusus <lsicinius@--------> wrote: --- In novaroma@y..., "Marcus Cassius Julianus" <cassius622@a...> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> Placing a "want" ad is a good idea! We'd probably be much better off
> NOT saying that we want to establish a sovereign nation on an island,
> however. I've been resarching this subject for years now and ALL land
> is owned (or claimed) by the macronations of the world, and ALL
> macronations have strict policies on not letting folks "shave off"
> bits, even unwanted islands up for sale, to start their own
> countries. Nobody wants new nations forming and ruining the status
> quo.
>
> However, there is nothing saying we can't buy an island or some land,
> and CONSIDER it our sovereign territory under "dual status" the
> macronation which includes it might not agree, but as long as we pay
> taxes and don't behave like radicals, they aren't going to CARE.
>
> My guess is that the ad at the top of the page, (wanting to establish
> an "Italian Village" is perfect. I DO hope it was one of us that
> posted it! It's interesting, and best of all, *non threatening*.
>
> And, if none of that works out, maybe it's time to think about a
> small and practical piece of land? There was a huge "homesteading"
> thread a couple months back that got a little out of control, but
> something like this small island going for the price of a single
> family house would really put Nova Roma "on the map". Maybe we ought
> to put a request for donated land up on the website?
>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
>

Salve Marce Cassi,

There is another posibility of aquiring an island besides purchase.
That is creating an Artifical island. This is discussed in Rene
Kardol's Masters Thesis which can be read at

http://www.luf.org/artisle.html

With a sumary at

http://www.distant-star.com/issue10/june_99_kardol.htm

We are in a better postion than most groups that wish to obtain a
sovereign island. According to one school of thought the colonists for
an artifical island would not qualify as a nation because "There would
be no shared history, traditions, religions, ethnicities, or cultures
on which to base this new nation." Nova Roma certainly dosen't have
this problem because we have all execpt common ethnicities, a trait
that we share with many existing Macro Nations.

Vale,
L. Sicinius Drusus


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Salvete,

Here is a nice little 11 acre island in British Columbia

http://www.privateislandsonline.com/caesarcabc.htm

Caesar's Island !

Vale!

Maximina Octavia


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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Islands?
From:	Patrick Ferguson <pvitruviusiulianus@-------->
Date:	Mon, 2 Jul 2001 10:45:58 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete omnes!

Fortunatus wrote:

>If it's to
> provide a campground
> and "show forum" like some Renaissance festival
> fairgrounds, then we will need
> someplace that is both accessible and attractive.
> If it's simply to actually
> own land, then anywhere in a country that doesn't
> charge ruinous property taxes
> will do.

Paatricius wrote:

I have an idea that is kind of inbetween a Festival
and land for the sake of owning land. In the U. S.,
there are some ghost towns, and some of these ghost
towns have been renovated to show what life was like
durring that period and are being used as living
history museums. So, if we were to get some land in
an apropriate place, with sufficient funds we could do
something similar. We could recreate a small portion
of a Roman town (forum, market, baths, temple, insula
and workshops, maybe even a villa) and make it a
tourist attraction. But, it could be used in such a
way (if there were enough people willing to do so)
that the people who work there would actually live
there, and it could grow into a fully functional Roman
town. Also, if we were able to make it soverign
territory (our embassy?) perhaps we could get
assitance from the UN. Or we could get assistance
from a histocally minded orginization. But in any
case it might very well be profitable.

Valete optime! :->!

Patricius Vitruvius Iulianus,

Civis Novae Romae.


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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Disappointment continued and exacerbated
From:	Maximina Octavia <myownq@-------->
Date:	Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:00:43 -0700 (PDT)

bsmith3121@-------- wrote:
It may be your browser. I was having the same problem yesterday with AOL. Every page I went to said "That page cannot be found" or "page timed out." Today it seems to be fine.

Caius Titinius Varus

In a message dated Sat, 30 Jun 2001 5:26:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, owlsmirror@-------- writes:

<< As I continue to click down the links in "Via Romana" I find that not
only are my first choices "page not found" but in fact MOST of the
links are completely dead. This is very annoying and discouraging.

Paulina Corva





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Salvete,

This is so true about the browser situation. The internet is not perfect nor are the tools. I find that if a page does not come up and I can view the link URL, I will type it in and be successful opening the site. Sometimes, just a little work can be a *big* payoff and alleviate frustration. Good Luck!

Vale!

Maximina Octavia


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Subject:	[novaroma] A Home for Nova Roma
From:	Maximina Octavia <myownq@-------->
Date:	Mon, 2 Jul 2001 12:50:03 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete,
An island sounds ideal, however, let us not overlook the many other opportunities that the U.S. and Canada offer. Although I have no wish to turn completely survivalist, i do love the outdoors. I remember the days of Communes that had the same idea of forming communities of like minded individuals.
The most common problems were people getting along, staph and other infections because they used no products that might harm the environment, other sanitary considerations, concerns of indigenous wild life, security against fanatics and other criminals, food acquistion, growing and preparation, all the daily chores and conveniences that we take for granted, what if someone (gods forbid) should need medical care, urgent or otherwise?
The idea of the Renaissance villages, is a good one. Some have permanent buildings, however, insurance does not permit habitation. Health and fire departments and insurance are the biggest obstacles to overcome. Here in California, it is mind boggling. Oh yeah, don't forget property taxes for purchased land. Yearly taxes are very high in some states.
I live in California, however, I have also lived in Arizona. The local government used to be more liberal in AZ and I believe it still is. Texas and Arizona are not entirely desert with snakes and scorpions either. Well, I have not been to Texas in a long time and I am not sure about the geography.
I have a brother in Real Estate in AZ and I shall ask if he knows of land in Payson or Prescott. These are both mountainous areas with extremely mild climates. It rarely snows and most the year the climate is very mild and it is quite beautiful. There have been a few hot spells in Prescott, reaching in the 90 degree range, however, it beats the over 115 to 125 degrees it gets in Phoenix.
And, why could we not have an East Coast and West Coast packages.? People on either side of the U.S. and Canada could each pay for their respective areas. Otherwise, I think it will be very difficult to get folks to participate financially who are on opposite ends of the continent. It might be more realist to think in smaller parcels and more localized areas to begin with. Although, I know it is important just to purchase a piece of reality for Nova Roma even if the property is not used right away.
I am certain that I am not relating anything new, just a reality check for us to think about. I have had some experience in a very small production of this sort years ago. It is a wonderful idea, I think it will just take time and a lot of dough. The idea of a land fund is probably the best way to go and those who are really serious and interested will be around for the long haul. Those that are not, will "fall by the wayside" so to speak. Most people have other priorities.
Being new, I hope I have not offended anyone. I would really like to see this dream come true too. Here's to a brave new world and all those with the pioneer spirit!
Vale!
Maximina Octavia



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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Islands?
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Mon, 2 Jul 2001 14:58:33 -0700 (PDT)

Salve, amice Patrici.

--- Patrick Ferguson <pvitruviusiulianus@--------> wrote:
> Salvete omnes!

<<snipped>>

> Paatricius wrote:
>
> I have an idea that is kind of inbetween a Festival
> and land for the sake of owning land. In the U. S.,
> there are some ghost towns, and some of these ghost
> towns have been renovated to show what life was like
> durring that period and are being used as living
> history museums. So, if we were to get some land in
> an apropriate place, with sufficient funds we could do
> something similar. We could recreate a small portion
> of a Roman town (forum, market, baths, temple, insula
> and workshops, maybe even a villa) and make it a
> tourist attraction. But, it could be used in such a
> way (if there were enough people willing to do so)
> that the people who work there would actually live
> there, and it could grow into a fully functional Roman
> town. Also, if we were able to make it soverign
> territory (our embassy?) perhaps we could get
> assitance from the UN. Or we could get assistance
> from a histocally minded orginization. But in any
> case it might very well be profitable.
>
> Valete optime! :->!
>
> Patricius Vitruvius Iulianus,
>
> Civis Novae Romae.

What a wonderful idea, Patrici! I fully support it. If we were to
choose a "Roman ghost town", there are many in Europe to choose from
(there is even one extremely close to Madrid, my own hometown, which is
called Segobriga). We would have to ask for loads of bureaucratical
permissions (all these ruins are considered national patrimony
everywhere), but it would certainly be worth the effort, both for our
personal satisfaction in such a reconstruction, and for the great
publicity we could get if we handled the issue wisely.


=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Islands State question
From:	Michel Loos <loos@-------->
Date:	Mon, 02 Jul 2001 14:12:21 -0300

Gaius Marcius Coriolanus wrote:
>
> Quirites
>
> It is really interesting to see and read the Islands mail storm.
>
> So, let's suppose we've just bought it. What are the possibilities to
> build there a real international known and accepted republic? I mean
> international law standards, UN and other possible requirements?
>
> I must admit, that I'm sceptic about it but it will be really
> wonderfull to have a piece of own land an Nova Roma passport one day.
>
> Ave et Vale
>
> Gaius Marcius Coriolanus
>
> "Censer Carthagine esse delendam "
>
>
>
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Salvete,

I think that the chances to get recognized as a state on an island which
is part of major nation are exactly none.

They could be slightly better as a land-locked enclave in a minor
nation, since that minor nation could abandon formally its sovereignty
on that part of its territory, still keeping a "protectorate" on it and
forbidding for instance to build a larger airport. This way since they
would control all communications they could benefit from the honour of
helping Rome to rebuild, and if we are succesfull of the valorisation of
a remote part of their territory (by tourism for instance).

Vale,

Manius Villius Limitanus



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