| Subject: |
[novaroma] event in Rome now! |
| From: |
manius_constantinus_serapio@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 08 Jul 2001 01:40:16 -0000 |
|
AVETE OMNES!
I think it woul be useful to inform you about an interesting
event. From today to the 7th January 2755, in Rome, in the Colosseum,
there is an important exhibition called "Sangue e Arena" (Blood and
Arena) about Colosseum history and gladiators. There are also real
fightings between gladiators in the Colosseum and people can watch
and support from the very terrace of the arena!
This fact suggested to me that it would be great that Nova Roma
organizes trips in our spiritual homeland for citizens which have too
many problems to come in Italy (because of money or distance). As an
italic citizen, I would help with pleasure in organizing this type of
opportunity!
VALETE MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Basilica 0.92 |
| From: |
"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 08 Jul 2001 02:32:26 -0000 |
|
Salvete Quirites,
After reading the Court's decession, it has NO effect on the license
terms that Basilica is released under. The differance is EULAs take
away your rights, while the MPL grants you additional rights.
So I'm releasing Basilica 0.92.
the files are at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Austrorientalis/files/Basilica/
First download Mozilla 0.92 for your computer from
http://www.mozilla.org/releases/
Windows users download the patch bin.zip, and unzip it in the bin
folder of Mozilla, overwriting the old files.
Linux and Mac users download the patch chrome.zip and unzip it in the
chrome directory, over writing the files.
The only differance between the two patches is the Windows patch
contains an updated version of Mozilla.exe that displays a Nova Roma
Splash Screen and Icon instead of the Mozilla screen and Icon.
Valete,
L.Sicinius Drusus
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: event in Rome now! |
| From: |
trog99@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 08 Jul 2001 02:57:42 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, manius_constantinus_serapio@h... wrote:
> AVETE OMNES!
>
> I think it woul be useful to inform you about an interesting
> event. From today to the 7th January 2755, in Rome, in the
Colosseum,
> there is an important exhibition called "Sangue e Arena" (Blood and
> Arena) about Colosseum history and gladiators. There are also real
> fightings between gladiators in the Colosseum and people can watch
> and support from the very terrace of the arena!
> This fact suggested to me that it would be great that Nova Roma
> organizes trips in our spiritual homeland for citizens which have
too
> many problems to come in Italy (because of money or distance). As an
> italic citizen, I would help with pleasure in organizing this type
of
> opportunity!
>
> VALETE
Salvete Manius et alii:
Many thanks Manius for willing to assist civies to come to the
homeland. You are very kind and dedicated.
Bene valete,
Pompeia Cornelia MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] NR meeting in Bs.As. : a success |
| From: |
octavianuslucius@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 08 Jul 2001 03:29:57 -0000 |
|
Salvete omnes quirites.
It is a pleasure for me to announce that today Provincia Argentina
has had its very first face to face novaroman meeting. We were 5 out
of 9 citizens : Gaius Egnatius Gnarus ,Marcus Furius Piger Cruentus,
Aulus Gabinius Ursulus, Lucius Sergius Lupus and me. I wish to thank
them for their presence at this meeting. They made it come true. We
held the meeting in a classroom of a state university with other
people who also are interested in ancient history.
I took some photos and am planning to put them online (I hope those
shots were well taken :-) ).
In one sentence : a very important day for the development of the
province.
Valete bene et habete fortunam bonam
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Propraetor provinciae Argentinae
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] List Policy |
| From: |
"M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 8 Jul 2001 04:13:49 +0200 |
|
M. Apollonius Formosanus omnibus Quiritibus S.P.D.
As we have been asked to make our opinions known on list policy. I
would like to say that I basically agree with Consul Cassius
Iulianus: We do not need more niggling and troublesome rules to
impede our communications and cause inconveniences. But the idea of
posting list policy once a month is reasonably harmless and might
even do a little bit of good.
I would naturally go on to say that the obnoxious list *language*
policy should no longer be a part of the content of that monthly
posting. I am especially irritated by the fact that the curatrix and
occasionally others repreatedly misrepresent those of us who condemn
it as though we did not understand it. I am sure that Limitanus and
I, for example, understand *perfectly* that posts are allowed in
*any* language IF translated into English too. THAT (the part
following the "if") is the part that we object to.
I observed very recently that a province had need to call the
attention of any possible members on this list to the existence of a
new list and new activities. Someone felt it prudent to urge that
this be written in English *because of* the language policy problems
we have on this main list. Now, obviously a brief post in the
language concerned would have caught the attention of the natives of
the province more readily and been perhaps significantly easier for
some of them to understand than a notice in English. Furthermore, it
was not something directed at or particularly concenring cives in
general, but only the group who would have understood the language in
question, so a translation into English would have been pointless
bother. Hobbling our non-English-preferers with petty and stupid
regulations like this so that they cannot use this list in a simple
and natural manner is not good policy and never will be.
And since we do not "do the courtesy" to preferers of any other
languages of translating all our English posts into their languages
(I use a favourite expression of Q. Fabius Maximus in this context),
it is not reasonable to expect under compulsion everyone
non-English-preferring to do so into English. Of course, most people
probably will prefer to use English to get the maximum understanding
audience - but sometimes people will want to just use their native
language for those who can understand it, and do not feel any need to
translate it into any other language. If they are Novoromani, this is
their list too, after all! This has never constituted a real problem,
and if everyone would just relax about this in a natural and
reasonable manner and not make unnecessary rules, the issue could be
dropped.
I would like to make an additional comment on personal attacks, in
response to a very reasonable post in which the principle was
repeated, that it is appropriate to attack ideas, and not
individuals. There is always much to be said in favour of that
principle, I agree. Unfortunately, sometimes it is the personalities
and fixed personal policies of certain individuals (especially those
in power or candidates for power) that constitute the real problem
that must be discussed. For example, in order to address the issue of
persistent and extreme concentration of power in too few hands, I am
forced to point (even if in depersonalised and sweeping terms when
possible) to a group of specific individuals who consistenly behave
in a manner that perpetuates and exacerbates this problem. Limitanus
has had this difficulty too, as he believes that the curatrix of this
list has a personally-determined behavioral pattern that is to him
reminiscent historically to Nazi practice. That he believes this to
be a persistent sort of behaviour based on the character of the
public - and therefore criticisible - official in question is a point
that he has a right to make.
I am sorry that his attempts to stand up for freedom in this forum
have led to such personal animosity between him and the curatrix. I
myself would not have used some of the expressions he has used in
this connection with respect to the curatrix. On the other hand, he
has been given reason for feeling both personal animosity and
political concern - and I think that it is very important that is
voice should be heard - uncensored.
Now, sometimes we liberals might compare some actions of some of our
local oligarchy to Nazis, Communists, dictatorships (sensu moderno)
or various kinds of totalitariansm. If these would be interpreted
with *common sense* and *honesty*, everyone would admit that all
forms of political suppression and denial of human rights (like
freedom of speech) are *similar to* one another. Therefore, if
Limitanus says that the actions of the curatrix are "Nazi-like", that
would be in a sense litterally true, *assuming* that any kind of
censorship is going on. It does NOT mean that Limitanus is saying
that the curatrix is 100% as evil as Hitler or has had the power (or
even the inclination) to commit real atrocities. That is very
obviously a simply silly interpretation, and it very obviously is not
what he meant.
But in pointing out there IS in Nova Roma something *similar* to
what a totalitarian regime did historically, one (in)famous and
generally perceived as evil, a warning is being sounded. I wish
people would listen to that very apt warning, and not play dishonest
interpretive games about the word "Nazi" or anything similar. Making
a comparison of a bad thing with another bad thing of the same type
to call attention to its badness does not imply that the same
*degree* of badness is being asserted - only the *quality* of
undesirability.
Protecting freedom of speech was important in Germany, but it was
not done effectively, and the result was bad. Limitanus is expressing
the same thought that many of us must have, that we should not make
the same kind of mistake here, and that the tendencies to that sort
of thing should be nipped in the bud.
The bud has already opened a bit, though, and in addition to proper
and legitimate restraint of those of us who would go for one
another's throats if allowed, we have seen threads of political
discussion terminated arbitrarily. That is unconstitutional. This is
our place of political discussion, and those who are critics of the
Powers That Be in our state are in need of protection, not
suppression. This is a place for all voices, including the critical
and dissatisfied ones, to be heard freely by all. May it always be
possible.
Valete!
_________________________________________________
Marcus Apollonius Formosanus
Psterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae
Aedilis Plebeius, Amicus Dignitatis
Magister Scholae Latinae
ICQ# 61698049 AIM: MAFormosanus MSN: Formosanus
Minervium Virtuale: http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/Minervium.htm
Gens Apollonia: http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/
The Gens Apollonia is accepting new members.
____________________________________________________
All that is needed for the forces of evil to triumph in the world is for
enough good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke
___________________________________________________
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Q. Fabus Maximus on current items in the Forum |
| From: |
"M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 8 Jul 2001 04:59:06 +0200 |
|
M. Apollonius Formosanus omnibus Quiritibus S.P.D.
A most extraordinary and dangerous statement was made by Q. Fabius
Maximus to which I should like to call everyone's attention:
Fabius:
As Senior Consul, Vedius has every right (by imperium) to issue
edicts that running of Rome. It was in his opinion that the list
{idea missing from original here} so he terminated it. If it was an
unconstitutional edictum then the People would be protected by
Tribunical Veto, which did not occur. Therefore the edictum stood,
and the debate terminated. It was entirely constitutional.
Respondeo:
I think that common sense would indicate to most of us that one may
commit an illegal or unconstitutional act and not happen to be
stopped by a state official. Criminals do it every day all around us
until the police succeed in catching them - if they do.
Now, if even one of the two tribunes would support both consuls,
then according to Fabius' idea here, the consuls could do absolutely
anything without violating the Constitution. Including violating any
rights guaranteed in the Constitution or cancelling elections and
installing themselves in power forever.
No, the absence of two tribunes agreeing to an intercessio is not by
any means the same as saying that a given official action is in fact
constitutional. One or both of them could be incompetent or remiss in
performing his/her duties. Or one or both might simply be mistaken.
Or they both might have been out of reach of a computer during the
limited period of time they have to act.
(As far as the actual constitutionality itself, a different matter,
if the consul thought there to be an immanent and real danger to the
state, he probably had the right to do what he did using his general
imperium as Fabius says, otherwise he was surely restricting the
freedom of speech unconstitutionally, whether the tribunes caught him
or not. Basically list management is not a job to be carried out with
consular power of course, and the curatrix herself would have been
out of place in terminating a thread of conversation unless insult or
danger to the state was present.)
But whether it was in fact constitutional or not, its
constitutionality cannot be reliably inferred from the simple fact
that the tribunes did not agree to act. Lacking a supreme or
constitutional court, it is presumably up to the Senate and the
People to stand up and protest if something unconstitutional happens
and the tribunes do not act. Nerva, as a concerned civis, was
therefore quite justified in calling this once again to our attention
if he felt it to have been a constitutional abuse.
Valete!
_________________________________________________
Marcus Apollonius Formosanus
Psterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae
Aedilis Plebeius, Amicus Dignitatis
Magister Scholae Latinae
ICQ# 61698049 AIM: MAFormosanus MSN: Formosanus
Minervium Virtuale: http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/Minervium.htm
Gens Apollonia: http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/
The Gens Apollonia is accepting new members.
____________________________________________________
All that is needed for the forces of evil to triumph in the world is for
enough good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke
___________________________________________________
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] Q. Fabus Maximus on current items in the Forum |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 7 Jul 2001 23:49:53 -0400 |
|
Salvete
I would just like to point out that I did not issue the post in question as
Consul, and under the authority of Consular Imperium, but on behalf of the
Curatrix Sermonem, who happened to be incommunicado at the time. I was
simply a messenger, not a direct actor. The action you're discussing should
best be discussed within that context.
Valete,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul
email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
ICQ: 106199729
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
> -----Original Message-----
> From: M. Apollonius Formosanus [mailto:bvm3@--------]
> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 10:59 PM
> To: novaroma@--------
> Subject: [novaroma] Q. Fabus Maximus on current items in the Forum
>
>
>
> M. Apollonius Formosanus omnibus Quiritibus S.P.D.
>
> A most extraordinary and dangerous statement was made by Q. Fabius
> Maximus to which I should like to call everyone's attention:
>
> Fabius:
> As Senior Consul, Vedius has every right (by imperium) to issue
> edicts that running of Rome. It was in his opinion that the list
> {idea missing from original here} so he terminated it. If it was an
> unconstitutional edictum then the People would be protected by
> Tribunical Veto, which did not occur. Therefore the edictum stood,
> and the debate terminated. It was entirely constitutional.
>
> Respondeo:
>
> I think that common sense would indicate to most of us that one may
> commit an illegal or unconstitutional act and not happen to be
> stopped by a state official. Criminals do it every day all around us
> until the police succeed in catching them - if they do.
>
> Now, if even one of the two tribunes would support both consuls,
> then according to Fabius' idea here, the consuls could do absolutely
> anything without violating the Constitution. Including violating any
> rights guaranteed in the Constitution or cancelling elections and
> installing themselves in power forever.
>
> No, the absence of two tribunes agreeing to an intercessio
> is not by
> any means the same as saying that a given official action is in fact
> constitutional. One or both of them could be incompetent or remiss in
> performing his/her duties. Or one or both might simply be mistaken.
> Or they both might have been out of reach of a computer during the
> limited period of time they have to act.
>
> (As far as the actual constitutionality itself, a different matter,
> if the consul thought there to be an immanent and real danger to the
> state, he probably had the right to do what he did using his general
> imperium as Fabius says, otherwise he was surely restricting the
> freedom of speech unconstitutionally, whether the tribunes caught him
> or not. Basically list management is not a job to be carried out with
> consular power of course, and the curatrix herself would have been
> out of place in terminating a thread of conversation unless insult or
> danger to the state was present.)
>
> But whether it was in fact constitutional or not, its
> constitutionality cannot be reliably inferred from the simple fact
> that the tribunes did not agree to act. Lacking a supreme or
> constitutional court, it is presumably up to the Senate and the
> People to stand up and protest if something unconstitutional happens
> and the tribunes do not act. Nerva, as a concerned civis, was
> therefore quite justified in calling this once again to our attention
> if he felt it to have been a constitutional abuse.
>
> Valete!
>
> _________________________________________________
> Marcus Apollonius Formosanus
> Psterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae
> Aedilis Plebeius, Amicus Dignitatis
> Magister Scholae Latinae
> ICQ# 61698049 AIM: MAFormosanus MSN: Formosanus
> Minervium Virtuale: http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/Minervium.htm
> Gens Apollonia: http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/
> The Gens Apollonia is accepting new members.
> ____________________________________________________
> All that is needed for the forces of evil to triumph in the world is for
> enough good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke
> ___________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
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|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] NR meeting in Bs.As. : a success |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 7 Jul 2001 23:51:20 -0400 |
|
Salve,
Wonderful news! Congratulations on a job well done. I hope we'll here about
many more such meetings in Argentina in the future!
Vale,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul
email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
ICQ: 106199729
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
> -----Original Message-----
> From: octavianuslucius@-------- [mailto:octavianuslucius@--------]
> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 11:30 PM
> To: novaroma@--------
> Subject: [novaroma] NR meeting in Bs.As. : a success
>
>
> Salvete omnes quirites.
> It is a pleasure for me to announce that today Provincia Argentina
> has had its very first face to face novaroman meeting. We were 5 out
> of 9 citizens : Gaius Egnatius Gnarus ,Marcus Furius Piger Cruentus,
> Aulus Gabinius Ursulus, Lucius Sergius Lupus and me. I wish to thank
> them for their presence at this meeting. They made it come true. We
> held the meeting in a classroom of a state university with other
> people who also are interested in ancient history.
> I took some photos and am planning to put them online (I hope those
> shots were well taken :-) ).
> In one sentence : a very important day for the development of the
> province.
>
> Valete bene et habete fortunam bonam
>
> Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
> Propraetor provinciae Argentinae
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] list policy on languages |
| From: |
octavianuslucius@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 08 Jul 2001 04:13:51 -0000 |
|
Salvete omnes
I wish to support M. Apollonius Formosanus position about the
language issue. Because I disagree with the list policy on this
issue. There are some instances where translation into English is
absolutely useless, and in consequence, the translation is an extra
effort for nothing. It should depend only on the poster decision
wether to translate the post or not. If no translation is given, then
an english speaker will know that the post has not any useful
information for him/her. So he/she wouldn´t lose his/her time reading
it, and the poster wouldn´t lose his/her time translating it. Another
solution in between would be writing just the subject in English and
the poster´s language.
Valete bene et habete fortunam bonam
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] travel to Rome |
| From: |
Carmen Pehnec <europamoon7@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 7 Jul 2001 21:10:35 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Avete Omnes,
In response to a post regarding events in Rome, it
would be great if we had a list of civis in Italia
that could assist in those wishing to visit our
homeland. Also any travel agents out there that can
get us discounts on trips? Also we should open our
homes as well as our hearts to each other and I would
like to open my residence as a place for a traveling
citizen or citizens (no more than three) that would
like to attend an event in this area. I live in
southern Ca in the US. I am not always home but if
schedules work out I have a spare bedroom and could
accomodate 1-3 people for a few days at most. I have
a small list of requirements: honest, fairly clean and
respectful. I also have two dogs so please like
animals. They are sweet and love people.
Vale,
Pompeia Antonia Caesar
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: NR meeting in Bs.As. : a success |
| From: |
octavianuslucius@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 08 Jul 2001 04:21:09 -0000 |
|
Salve consul Flavi Vedi Germanice
Thank you very much for the message. I really feel very happy for
this achievement. So it´s been a joyous day. I´m sure we´ll have more
meetings like this one.
Vale bene
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Propraetor Provinciae Argentinae
--- In novaroma@--------, "Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@n...>
wrote:
> Salve,
>
> Wonderful news! Congratulations on a job well done. I hope we'll
here about
> many more such meetings in Argentina in the future!
>
> Vale,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> Consul
>
> email: germa--------s@--------
> AIM: Flavius Vedius
> ICQ: 106199729
> www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
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|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] list policy on languages |
| From: |
"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 8 Jul 2001 00:53:29 -0400 |
|
Salve,
>>There are some instances where translation into English is absolutely
useless, and in consequence, the translation is an extra effort for
nothing.>>
With respect, I must point out that this is not accurate. *Part* of the
reason the Language Policy exists is due to the need of the moderators to be
able to read and understand the message. Doing my job and making sure this
List is running smoothly is *never* useless in my eyes.
Interestingly enough, if a gathering or meeting were planned in Poland, and
the message was *only* posted in Polish so that the poster did not "waste"
his time, Formosanus himself would be unable to read it. He has stated
that, despite living there, he does not speak Polish.
So, while I appreciate the point you were trying to make, I hope you can see
the other side of the point as well. You cannot assume that all people
living in Poland speak Polish, nor can you assume that every person living
in Spain speaks Spanish. The only reasonable thing we *can* do is use the
most common language available to us and offer assistance to those who need
it.
Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena
Curatrix Sermonis
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|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] List Policy |
| From: |
"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 8 Jul 2001 01:03:17 -0400 |
|
Salve,
I refuse to be drawn into yet another course of debate on whether I am
actually a Nazi or simply act like one. ;) The only portion of Formosanus'
post which I *do* need to address is as follows:
<<Someone felt it prudent to urge that this be written in English *because
of* the language policy problems we have on this main list.>>
I would suggest that the poster would have done better to contact myself or
my scriba rather than rely on what appears to have been poor advice. Had
he/she contacted us he/she would have found as much assistance and good will
as they could have wished. This would have been a perfect chance to put a
cive in touch with one of our wonderful volunteer translators, actually.
Given that this is the *first* I am hearing of the poster's alleged
troubles, all I can do is suggest they work *with* us next time. To ask
either myself or Pompeia to handle problems we don't know about is unfair to
say the least. He or she might also have done well to pursue the posts of
several other people who *routinely* post in one or more languages without
incident.
Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena
Curatrix Sermonis
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Gathering in Canada Orientalis Provincia |
| From: |
"Pompeia Cornelia Strabo" <scriba_forum@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 08 Jul 2001 05:13:49 -0000 |
|
Salvete Omnes:
Today was a very special day for me. I had a visit from the family of the
Provincial Procurator Canada Orientalis et Rogator Nova Roma, Appius
Tullius Marcellus Cato. Also present were his three sons, the eldest is
also a civie, Tiberius Tullius Marcellus Cato.
We had a delightful time visiting and dining. The children enjoyed each
other's company. There is nothing like a face-to-face gathering of Novae
Romae! It was too perfect, if there is such a state.
My husband Rick, affectionately known in Gens Cornelia as the BARBARIAN, was
teasing his wife and propraetrix, calling her *Pompous
Cornelius*.......well.......I shall certainly have to issue an edictum
against that sort of talk, now won't I (grin)!!.......even if it is true
sometimes!!! :)
We took pics, so we'll scan and tell when they are developed :)
I would like to share with you that Cato blessed me with a beautiful
Republican coin, 85 BCE, with the image of Apollo. I shall treasure it
always. I will likely have it fixed to a pendant. My heartfelt thanks Cato.
Cato, myself, Praefectus Militarium Velius, and a few others will meet at
Fort Malden, in Amhearstburg, Ontario, near the Windsor Detroit area, Aug 3,
4, 5. This is a Military/Reenactment Timeline in which we will be
representing the Roman Era, plus our Provincia and Nova Roma as a whole.
By the way, if you want to drive up for the day, we would love to meet you.
And if you need further info on this, please post me.
Bene valete!
Pompeia Cornelia Strabo
Propraetrix pro temp, Canada Orientalis
NOVA ROMA
_________________________________________________________________________
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Gathering in Canada Orientalis Provincia |
| From: |
VMoeller@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 8 Jul 2001 02:59:23 EDT |
|
Valete "Pompous" Po:
I love it! That was too funny...and I agree. The face to face meetings
with other Nova Romans is the best way to establish meaningful, and
beneficial relationships
with our fellow cives.
---Secunda Cornelia
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Consular Edictum: Quaestor Reassignments |
| From: |
"Raina Faolan" <GuruPoet@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 08 Jul 2001 05:56:54 -0400 |
|
Salve, esteemed Consul et alii,
Mutual agreement behind what reason? Things of this juncture( I'm using
'juncture' because I don't remember the proper word) does not occur without
a reason. What's the reason if I may ask?
Vale,
Aeternia
>From: "Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: <novaroma@-------->, <novaromaannounce@-------->
>Subject: [novaroma] Consular Edictum: Quaestor Reassignments
>Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 22:43:29 -0400
>
>Flavius Vedius Germanicus novaromanis S.P.D.
>
>Mutual agreement having been received in accordance with paragraph IV.A.6.
>of our Constitution, Quaestor Secunda Cornelia Valeria is hereby reassigned
>to the service of Curule Aedile Marius Cornelius Scipio. His assigned
>Quaestor, Piperbarus Ullerius Venator, is hereby reassigned to the service
>of Consul Flavius Vedius Germanicus.
>
>Valete,
>
>Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
>Consul
>
>email: germanicus@--------
>AIM: Flavius Vedius
>ICQ: 106199729
>www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
>
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: list policy on languages |
| From: |
loos@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 08 Jul 2001 12:12:35 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, "JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@g...> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> >>There are some instances where translation into English is
absolutely
> useless, and in consequence, the translation is an extra effort for
> nothing.>>
>
> With respect, I must point out that this is not accurate. *Part* of
the
> reason the Language Policy exists is due to the need of the
moderators to be
> able to read and understand the message.
Salve,
That was also the reason why all groups of tourists (speaking Russian
or not) had to be accompanied by an Intourist interpret: the
interprets helped the tourists and reported back to their government
all conversations. If I am not mistaken the same instution is still
valid in Vietname and China. This is a totalitarian concern, not a
democratic one.
> Doing my job and making sure this
> List is running smoothly is *never* useless in my eyes.
>
> Interestingly enough, if a gathering or meeting were planned in
Poland, and
> the message was *only* posted in Polish so that the poster did not
"waste"
> his time, Formosanus himself would be unable to read it. He has
stated
> that, despite living there, he does not speak Polish.
>
And of course this totally unrelated to NRs politics sentence is not a
personnale attack, it comes from the curatrix.
When I attack the curatrix for her harmfull politics here it is
considered a personnal attack, when she makes statements about the
private life of a citizen there is no problem.
> So, while I appreciate the point you were trying to make, I hope you
can see
> the other side of the point as well. You cannot assume that all
people
> living in Poland speak Polish, nor can you assume that every person
living
> in Spain speaks Spanish. The only reasonable thing we *can* do is
use the
> most common language available to us and offer assistance to those
who need
> it.
>
Yes english should always be an _option_ for all posters, not an
obligation.
Vale,
Manius Villius Limitanus.
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] On Villius's Totalitarism |
| From: |
Michel Loos <loos@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 08 Jul 2001 09:49:55 -0300 |
|
QFabiusMaxmi@-------- wrote:
>
> In a message dated 7/3/2001 8:57:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> loos@-------- writes:
>
> Salvete Citizens of Rome.
> The citizen Manius Villius Limitanus raises some questions. I would like to
> answer them.
> >
> > Salve Quirites,
> >
> > <<More or less a year ago, agroup tried to form a de facto political party
> > in NovaRoma. The leading oligarchy used the classical trick of
> > denouncing the weakening of the state by division. <<<
> Fabius
> The only political party started a year ago was the "Friends of Dignity"
> faction.
> The Sullan faction (which I assume you are referring to) started IV years ago.
Salvete,
I was effectively referring to the AD and the following destruction of
the effort to transform NR in a multiparty democracy.
> The third faction would be the Boni which include the founders of Nova Roma.
> However I am reminded we really don't have factions here in NR, we all want
> the same thing, we just have different ways of achieving it.
>
Cf below on Africa.
> > all monoparty dictarial regimes specially in Africa.
> Fabius:
> Bad choice of rhetoric here, to compare NR to a dictatorship especially to an
> African one. I have to assume that you were going for shock value, however
> it just makes you look uninformed and not very clever at all.
>
I can t agree with you. Those argument were advanced exactly by the
African leaders at the moment of independance : "We want all the same
thing (independance) and don t need multipartism" People who said that
include Leopold Senghor which was not a bloody dictator, unfortunately
the state of things that were established in the 50's allowed the raise
of some monsters like Idi Amine Dada, Bokassa or the current monsters in
Sierra Leone. I don t think you are among the monsters, much nearer to
L. Senghor but he commited a mistake back then and todays childrens of
Africa pay the price. Why should we commit the same mistake when we have
an historical example ?
> > Six monthes ago, the new list censor edicted a rule by which citizen
> > could no more express themselves in the language of their choice in this
> > public place. Effectively excluding a large number of citizens from this
> > forum, mostly the non-US citizens which were mnost opposed to her views
> > of politics. Another widely used method of silencing opposition in
> > multilingual countries.
> >
>
> Fabius:
> Actually we wanted to know what amazing information about Rome we were
> missing.
> If you write in Portuguese please extend us the courtesy of also writing it
> in English, since English is the predominate language on this list.
Do you have the courtesy in also writing in the various other NR
languages ?
Why not ?
> If you
> had a list where Portuguese was the predominate language, and I wrote
> something in English you would expect the same thing from me.
>
No I would not, I am used ,in my job, to leave in a multilingual
environment. We are able to hold multilingual congresses (ex. The Latin
expression Chenical Theorist congress is hold in numerous languages,
each speaker speaking its own language (with no translation), all
questions being asked in the questioners language, sometimes with an
english explanation if there is some understanding pb.). The current
list policy is absolutely useless in order to voluntarely share our
opinions.
> Vedia is the Curator of list. She is not a Censor! She derives her imperium
> from the Senate who asks her to do one simple thing: Keep order. I think she
> has done an admirable job. I am sorry you don't feel this way.
By censoring posts she acts like a censor.
> >
> > >>> hortly after a great number of citizens were driven out of NovaRoma by
> > constant harrasment and "Love it or leave it" arguments. The exact lemma
> > of many south-american dictators of the 20th century.<<
> Since we are actually attempting to do something here, we wanted to eliminate
> "dead wood" that might dragged us down. The citizens that left were not
> really forced out. They wanted a different NR from the majority of the
> people here.
> When they saw that the citizens were not interested in their version of NR,
> only then they left.
>
Rhey did not leave as a result of the election and you perfectly now it.
> > >>The senior consul expressed on this forum this exact point while asking
> > for the remainder of the opponents to leave.<<
> Fabius:
> I believe you are exaggerating here Villius old boy. The "Rome, love it or
> live it" rhetoric started during my consulship. Vedius never said anything
> like this.
>
I will therefore include you in my list of necesarelly privates. In fact
Vedius used your expressions against Formosanus in at least one post.
"Love it or leave it" is definitivelly an anti-democratic attitude used
in most right-wing dictatures (as opposed to "You are mad if you don t
love it" applied in the left-wing dictatures).
> > The list censor decreed that talking of secession as a way of doing
> > politics (a common fact in the early republic) was "a clear threat to the
> > state"
> > and censored it. Just like Saddam Hussein does not allow the Kurds to
> > speak about secession.
> > The list censor decided that stating that some magistrates should be
> > removed from charge because they are harming our state was a personal
> > attack against those magistrate and censored the posts asking for it.
> > Just like in other dictators it is forbidden in NovaRoma to speak
> > against the head of the state and to ask for their removal.
> >
> Fabius
> Villi dude you are speaking out against the acts of the head of state right
> now. Are you being censored? I don't think so. >
Several posts of mine have been censored, censorship has stopped when I
started crossposting on the NRVizantia list. Strange isn t it ?
> Also again your rhetoric is
> overblown and even insulting to the list Curator. You might think about an
> apology to her.
>
> >>> senator stated that he was very sorry but since the population of
> > NovaRoma was not yet educated enough it was impossible to give them the
> > right of free speech.<<
> Fabius:
> Minucius and I gave the citizens unmoderated Forum for several months. It
> was a disaster. The Senate was forced to appoint Senator Patricia Cassia as
> Curator to
> fix the mess. If Lucius Cornelius could dig out my speech to the citizens
> about returning to moderation on the list, I would appreciate it.
>
> >>>
> > forum under the name of "moderation". Another argument heard a lot
> > in all "temporary" dictators around the world : "we are educating our
> > people and when time comes we will give the power to them"<<
> Fabius:
> The People of Rome have the power right now. It is contained within the
> Comitia of the Tribes, Centuries, and Plebeians.
>
Agreed, read freedom of speech not power.
> >>> nd now we have a new "proposition" of the list censor: It should be
> > forbidden to speak of politics on the forum (this list). Politics should
> > be reserved to politicians in her mind. Obviously another very
> > democratically proposition.>>
> Fabius:
> I believe the Forum here will always be politically bent. Why? Because it
> is the one list most Novae Romae are subscribed to, and therefore most likely
> to read political posts.
>
I hope it will always continue this way. Nevertheless the proposition
was made.
> > Somebody else was stating that we should need an external thread in
> > order to join our ranks, or perhaps an internal enemy? Just like all
> > dictators found their enemies internal or externals in order to shut
> > the mouth of their co-citizens (Cf. Hitler, Stalin, anti-communist
> > dictators, communist dictators)
> >
> > Is this still a democracy? If we want to continue to leave in peace and
> > in a democratic state we need to remove the deleterious element from
> > charge the fastest possible, or at least fight them on a continuous
> > base, if not this country will become totalitarian in a very short time.
> >
>
> Fabius
> To answer your last question first. No, we are not a Greek democracy. We
> are a represented democracy, which Polybios thought made us superior to all
> Greek forms of government.
>
I never favoured a greek democracy, in a greek democracy supposed
"blasphemy" would have been punished with dead (cf. Socrates). Yes we
should be a represented democracy which is superior to all form of
governments, but this includes freedom of speech, of religion etc. and
some of pour current magistrates are taking a strong position agianst
that.
> Historically, governments get the greatest cooperation from their citizens
> when they are fighting a common enemy. Carthage was a good example.
When governments and citizens feel they are 2 different things something
is rotten in the country. Governments should only be the representents
of the people a sort of collective for all citizens. In our system the
Senate can look at itself as separate but not the magistrates.
Common ennemy (and they found one: the fear of being processed in UK and
USA) is usual alibi for establishing a popular support for dictatures.
Troubled times are rarely times of real democracy (with the notable
exception of UK which always managed to do a great job on this point).
For all this I think the Vedii should be democratically removed from
charge, and that Fabius Maximus should never get another magistrature.
Valete,
Manius Villius Limitanus
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: On Villius's Totalitarism |
| From: |
trog99@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 08 Jul 2001 19:45:02 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, Michel Loos <loos@q...> wrote:
> QF--------sM--------@-------- wrote:
> >
> > In a message dated 7/3/2001 8:57:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> > loos@-------- writes:
> >
> > > > (snip)
>
> Several posts of mine have been censored, censorship has stopped
when I
> started crossposting on the NRVizantia list. Strange isn t it ?
Pompeia Respondeo: Yes, indeed, several of your posts have been
moderated (if you chose to exchange for use of Censor, go
ahead).....but they not any more moderated or censored than anyone
else's: You infarcted established list guidelines.....you were
warned..and you chose to remain on moderated/censored status because
you refused to compromise with what you feel are hypertotalitarianisms
on the part of the Curatrix.
Tell people ALL of the truth please and not just want you want them to
hear. Also refrain from lies.
On June 24 you posted to Vizantia complaining of Censorship. First
this was in reference to a post which did not appear on the mainlist.
Let me say this veeeeerrrrrry sloooooowly:
WEEEE DIIIID NOOOOT RECEIIIIVE IIIIT!!! So we could not pass it on to
the main list. We didn't secretly hide it like a couple of school
girls.
Limitane, You even implied in a subsequent email that you just might
possibly be in error re the above, but that you were still not willing
to give the Curatrix or myself the benefit of the doubt as to our
willingness to take seriously our respective oaths of office in doing
our job fairly and virtuously.........alas.........
So when this was no longer an issue, you attacked Priscilla regarding
a judgement she made regarding what she interpreted as an offensive
sig line, after receiving counsel from other magistrates. Her
yardstick for this was "would I expect other magistrates to put up
with this?". To this she answered "no", and decided that your Latin
sig line calling for the abrupt removal from office of the Vedia (both
of them!) was totally inappropriate.
And, alas......you attempted to post using this sig line a few more
times, without success and with due explanation as to why your posts
were not being allowed. I received cc's of these warnings from
Priscilla.
But you are Still moderated. You didn't *stop* being moderated once
you started posting to the Vizantia list. And you are moderated by
choice. this isnt true.
Be sure and tell the populace that Priscilla has sent you several
private emails in an attempt to straighten out this situation, and you
have ignored her, unless you have written her very very recently.
Ahh, but why should she or I take these public attacks personally?
After all, we are public servants, and you are entitled to abuse us,
right? WRONG!!!
I don't care what we are discussing, when you publicly tell lies and
incomplete truths about myself and Priscilla, you are *SLANDERING* and
it is ill appreciated.
You will not hear from me again. If I were moderator, I would
immediate remove you from this list for slander. Free speech is
wonderful, as long as it is true. Lies are unacceptable. Slander in
my view is flaming.
Manli, have you ever considered that traffic lights are a form of
totalitarianism?? Yes, they are........stop!........go!.....caution!!
but alas, they are necessary.
So is list moderation in Nova Roma. Our history shows that.
Pompeia
>
>
> > Also again your rhetoric is
> > overblown and even insulting to the list Curator. You might think
about an
> > apology to her.
> >
> > >>> senator stated that he was very sorry but since the
population of
> > > NovaRoma was not yet educated enough it was impossible to give
them the
> > > right of free speech.<<
> > Fabius:
> > Minucius and I gave the citizens unmoderated Forum for several
months. It
> > was a disaster. The Senate was forced to appoint Senator Patricia
Cassia as
> > Curator to
> > fix the mess. If Lucius Cornelius could dig out my speech to the
citizens
> > about returning to moderation on the list, I would appreciate it.
> >
> > >>>
> > > forum under the name of "moderation". Another argument heard a
lot
> > > in all "temporary" dictators around the world : "we are
educating our
> > > people and when time comes we will give the power to them"<<
> > Fabius:
> > The People of Rome have the power right now. It is contained
within the
> > Comitia of the Tribes, Centuries, and Plebeians.
> >
>
> Agreed, read freedom of speech not power.
>
>
> > >>> nd now we have a new "proposition" of the list censor: It
should be
> > > forbidden to speak of politics on the forum (this list).
Politics should
> > > be reserved to politicians in her mind. Obviously another very
> > > democratically proposition.>>
> > Fabius:
> > I believe the Forum here will always be politically bent. Why?
Because it
> > is the one list most Novae Romae are subscribed to, and therefore
most likely
> > to read political posts.
> >
>
> I hope it will always continue this way. Nevertheless the
proposition
> was made.
>
> > > Somebody else was stating that we should need an external thread
in
> > > order to join our ranks, or perhaps an internal enemy? Just like
all
> > > dictators found their enemies internal or externals in order to
shut
> > > the mouth of their co-citizens (Cf. Hitler, Stalin,
anti-communist
> > > dictators, communist dictators)
> > >
> > > Is this still a democracy? If we want to continue to leave in
peace and
> > > in a democratic state we need to remove the deleterious element
from
> > > charge the fastest possible, or at least fight them on a
continuous
> > > base, if not this country will become totalitarian in a very
short time.
> > >
> >
> > Fabius
> > To answer your last question first. No, we are not a Greek
democracy. We
> > are a represented democracy, which Polybios thought made us
superior to all
> > Greek forms of government.
> >
>
> I never favoured a greek democracy, in a greek democracy supposed
> "blasphemy" would have been punished with dead (cf. Socrates). Yes
we
> should be a represented democracy which is superior to all form of
> governments, but this includes freedom of speech, of religion etc.
and
> some of pour current magistrates are taking a strong position
agianst
> that.
>
> > Historically, governments get the greatest cooperation from their
citizens
> > when they are fighting a common enemy. Carthage was a good
example.
>
> When governments and citizens feel they are 2 different things
something
> is rotten in the country. Governments should only be the
representents
> of the people a sort of collective for all citizens. In our system
the
> Senate can look at itself as separate but not the magistrates.
> Common ennemy (and they found one: the fear of being processed in UK
and
> USA) is usual alibi for establishing a popular support for
dictatures.
> Troubled times are rarely times of real democracy (with the notable
> exception of UK which always managed to do a great job on this
point).
>
>
> For all this I think the Vedii should be democratically removed from
> charge, and that Fabius Maximus should never get another
magistrature.
>
>
> Valete,
>
> Manius Villius Limitanus
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: On Villius's Totalitarism |
| From: |
Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 08 Jul 2001 15:59:55 -0400 |
|
Pompeia wrote:
> Manli, have you ever considered that traffic lights are a form of
> totalitarianism?? Yes, they are........stop!........go!.....caution!!
> but alas, they are necessary.
That was great Pompeia! I laughed after reading that.
Although humorous you do have a good point with slander. It is completely
opposite of how a good citizen should try to act. A very bad vice to act
upon.
"Quamquam cupido sis delictum ab sui crebro suum mater ab vitualis"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"
--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia
Canada Orientalis Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/canorien
Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Prov Brasilia - Edictum III |
| From: |
=?iso-8859-1?q?Marcos=20Boehme?= <marminius@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 8 Jul 2001 17:26:19 -0300 (ART) |
|
Nova Roma
Provincia Brasilia
----------------------------------
Provincial Edictum - III
Regarding organization of the Province
07 julho 2001
Administrative Organization of the Provincia Brasilia.
I, Marcus Arminius Maior, Propraetor of Provincia
Brasilia of Nova Roma, do the actions to the better
administration of this province.
I. Nominations of Lictores of the Province
According to the Constitution of Nova Roma, the
propraetor of the province can nominate six Lictores,
with jurisdiction limited by the limes provinciales.
The remaining lictores were selected. They are:
Fulvius Aulus Nerva
Marcus Horatius Laetus
Manius Villius Limitanus
II. Nominations of Legates of the Provincia
Legates were selected to some Regiones of Provincia
Brasilia. They are:
1. Scipio Martius Bellicus,
to be Legatus of Pampa Magna (Rio Grande do Sul, RS)
2. Titus Arminius Volusius,
to be Legatus of Juliana (Santa Catarina, SC)
3. Manius Villius Limitanus,
to be Legatus of Paulicea (Sao Paulo, SP)
Marcus Arminius Maior
Propraetor, provincia Brasilia
----------------------------------
Edito Provincial - III
Sobre a organizacao da Provincia
07 de julho de 2001
Organizacao administrativa da Provincia Brasilia
Eu, Marcus Arminius Maior, Propraetor da Provincia
Brasilia de Nova Roma, ordeno as seguintes acoes para
a melhor administracao desta Provincia.
I. Nomeacao de Lictores da Provincia
De acordo com a Constituicao de Nova Roma, o
Propraetor da Provincia pode nomear seis Lictores, com
jurisdicao dada pelos limites da Provincia.
Mais tres Lictores foram escolhidos. Sao:
Fulvius Aulus Nerva
Marcus Horatius Laetus
Manius Villius Limitanus
II. Nomeacao de Legados da Provincia
Legados foram escolhidos para a Provincia. Sao eles:
1. Scipio Martius Bellicus,
para ser Legatus de Pampa Magna (Rio Grande do Sul,
RS)
2. Titus Arminius Volusius,
para ser Legatus de Juliana (Santa Catarina, SC)
3. Manius Villius Limitanus,
para ser Legatus de Paulicea (Sao Paulo, SP)
Marcus Arminius Maior
Propraetor, provincia Brasilia
----------------------------------
_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! GeoCities
Tenha seu lugar na Web. Construa hoje mesmo sua home page no Yahoo! GeoCities. É fácil e grátis!
http://br.geocities.yahoo.com/
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Dang (lost ineternet access) |
| From: |
pvitruviusiulianus@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 08 Jul 2001 22:00:07 -0000 |
|
Salvete omnes!
Unfortunately, I have lost internet access on my home computer, and I
won't be able to restore it for some time. So I will have to resort
to using the local library computers, and my communication will be
limited to non-existant.
Valete optime! :->!
Patricius Vitruvius Iulianus,
Civis Novae Romae.
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|
