Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: taxes
From:	Maximina Octavia <myownq@-------->
Date:	Mon, 16 Jul 2001 16:34:14 -0700 (PDT)

Lucius Sicinius Drusus <lsicinius@--------> wrote:
--- In novaroma@--------, PompeiaAntoniaCaesar <europamoon7@--------> wrote:
> Avete Omnes,
>
> I think we have to offer more than just voting rights
> to encourage membership. How many people in Nova Roma
> even care about the voting process or century points?
> That's not to say that it isn't important but many
> thing attract individuals to NR and politics may just
> not be someone's cup of tea (or wine, I should say).
> If we offer other benefits along with century points
> and voting rights it will certainly be more
> encouragement for those not interested in politics to
> join of which I suspect there are many such as these
> in NR.
>
> Vale,
>
> Pompeia Antonia Caesar
>

Salvete,

I think Pompeia Antonia has a point here. We do have many citizens who
aren't intrested in politics. We need to offer other things to
citizens who pay more than the minimum tax rate.

I think we should put the idea of Century Points aside for now.
Allthough the concept that those who pay more have a greater voice in
public affairs is in keeping with the mos maiorum, I fear that too
many moderns will consider it selling policital power.

We can look at how many non profits handle fund raising however. They
have things like silver and gold sponsership, and rewards for these
sponsers. We can do the same. I suggest three levels, Pyropus
(Bronze), Argentum (Silver) and Aurum (Gold) Sponsership levels.

Exactaly what we offer these citizens would depend on the level of
money required above the minimum tax. A web page with thier pictures
and names would be a good start. A Diploma stating that they are a
Pyropus, Argentum, or Aurum donor. Subscriptions to the Eagle,
Sesterces, or even a flag could be offered.

The Censors could set aside, as names of distinction, the agnomens
Pyropus, Argenteus, and Aureus, and these citizens would have the
honor of using these agnomens for that year.

it would work something like this,

Paying $25.00 above the minimum tax would be a pyropus donor.
Paying $50.00 above the minimun tax would be a Argentum donor.
Paying $100.00 above the minimum tax would be a Aurum donor.

Valete,
L. Sicinius Drusus

Salvete,

I think that Drusus and Pompeia are really on to something here. This is a brilliant idea.

This covers all the bases and if (just to clarify) we could ask a minimun of $12 U.S. then those that cannot afford more can have a choice.

Of course, it would be good, as someone else suggested, to have small incentives for their Gold, Silver, Bronze memberships similar to PBS whom I have worked for in the past where they offer gifts for higher than minimum donation.

Perhaps, videos and/or books could be donated, The Eagle could be sent free to higher levels of donation, and we also have coins, bumper stickers, beautiful flags, soon membership certificates and I am sure that we could come up with other tangible incentives or "gifts of appreciation" if we put our heads together.

Personally, I am working on a site where 15% of the proceeds will go to Nova Roma. Anyone with some talent might think about doing the same. The Lawrences (Laurencius (sp) and Varia Cassia) have a very nice website with products that I am sure some of us could use. In other words, *Shop Macellum* first for your Roman product needs. This helps everyone.

Valete, Maximina





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Subject:	[novaroma] Ignore, Just a Test
From:	"A. Cato" <a.cato@-------->
Date:	Mon, 16 Jul 2001 04:55:11 -0400

Simply a Test


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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Main List Content;
From:	Maximina Octavia <myownq@-------->
Date:	Mon, 16 Jul 2001 17:36:37 -0700 (PDT)

Julilla Sempronia Magna <julilla@--------> wrote:
radams36@-------- wrote:

I HEARTILY agree. Would that we saw more of Roma's great virtues:
Aequitas (fair dealings and impartiality) and Liberalitas
(generosity, open-mindedness) to say nothing of Humanitas
(refinement, learning, culture and civility). I wish there were more
oppportunities for thoughtful, reflective discussions of Roma's great
history and the renaissance of Roman culture and ideals here.

We are examples to each other and to newcomers each and every day.
Let's think of that before descending to mere back-bencher squabbling.




---
cura et valeas,

@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| http://julilla.tripod.com/
Daily Life in Ancient Rome
@____@ julilla@--------
||||

Ave Iulilla,

Sister, are you not with the Religio Romana? I would certainly like to see a contribution from you. There are many wanting to learn. Why do you sequester your knowledge? Instead of "wishing", make it so.

The one and only message of yours, as I remember, is the announcement of the site. Your website is great, I posted there, but I think I am still the only one who has posted a prayer.

I am new and I know nothing. Why don't *you* create a message that is the model for others like me to use as an example prayer for your temple? Maybe something in Latin with translation and why a person may want to offer a prayer, etc. Why are you not promoting Religio here where many new people come?

I am not trying to put you on the spot, however, those finding fault, except for one or two, are not making any positive contributions. They are just perpetuating complaint.

There are many topics of discussion I am certain you could start concerning Religio.

Some people seem to want just safe, quiet, non-involved, dispassionate repartee. I want passion and quick wit to stimulate my thinking because I believe that Romans were a passionate and intelligent people capable of taking it on the chin as well as giving it.

I have great respect for you and Religio Romana, I hope you do not mind some constructive criticism to light your proverbial lacerna.:) There is a time for all things reverant and passionate.

I welcome your instruction, right here on the Main List for all to benefit. I faithfully bow to the gods and your wisdom.

Vale, Maximina




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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Main List Content;
From:	"Julilla Sempronia Magna" <julilla@-------->
Date:	Tue, 17 Jul 2001 01:44:09 -0000

Maximina scripsit

> Sister, are you not with the Religio Romana? I would certainly
like to see a contribution from you. There are many wanting to
learn. Why do you sequester your knowledge? Instead of "wishing",
make it so.


Whoops, you caught me there, I have not subscribed to that list yet!
But I will now, and gladly, thanks to your prompting.

>
> The one and only message of yours, as I remember, is the
announcement of the site. Your website is great, I posted there, but
I think I am still the only one who has posted a prayer.

Glad you liked the Temple of Concordia.... as a matter of fact, I
built out the entire walkthrough out of sentiment for SPQR, and it'd
be awfully nice to finish the Aedis Saturni and others. In fact, I've
been away riding my two-wheeled chariot for III weeks on holiday, so
am just getting back into the swing of things here.


>
> I am new and I know nothing. Why don't *you* create a message that
is the model for others like me to use as an example prayer for your
temple? Maybe something in Latin with translation and why a person
may want to offer a prayer, etc. Why are you not promoting Religio
here where many new people come?


You've done an excellent job of that yourself! I'm fairly new myself,
having been an official NR member since the Ides of March.


>
> I am not trying to put you on the spot, however, those finding
fault, except for one or two, are not making any positive
contributions. They are just perpetuating complaint.
>
> There are many topics of discussion I am certain you could start
concerning Religio.
>
> Some people seem to want just safe, quiet, non-involved,
dispassionate repartee. I want passion and quick wit to stimulate my
thinking because I believe that Romans were a passionate and
intelligent people capable of taking it on the chin as well as giving
it.

Certainly, as their many descendents show to this day ;-) and, so
long as the passion is balanced by the sweet goddess of Reason, we'll
all enjoy the real meal deal.

>
> I have great respect for you and Religio Romana, I hope you do not
mind some constructive criticism to light your proverbial lacerna.:)
There is a time for all things reverant and passionate.
>
> I welcome your instruction, right here on the Main List for all to
benefit. I faithfully bow to the gods and your wisdom.

---
cura et valeas,

@____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
|||| http://julilla.tripod.com/
Daily Life in Ancient Rome
@____@ julilla@--------
||||

What a delight! As I do to your wisdom, my dear! Let's all rise to
the challenge of balancing our passions, and listening as much as we
speak! Gratias for your day-brightening post; I am off to sign up for
Religio Romana; I suppose I can put off working for my clients yet
again....








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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Municipia
From:	Michel Loos <loos@-------->
Date:	Mon, 16 Jul 2001 22:01:44 -0300

Salvete,

there was no unique scheme, each city was a state and continued to
govern itself as it did before the conquest, specially in old civilized
regions like in the hellenic parts of the Empire. Athens continued with
its institutions, Sparta with her two Kings, etc.
Rome let all the city-states in place, it "just" asked them to pay the
tribute.

Coloniae had a different status since they were formed by Roman Citizens
and not conquered.

Civitates was the form of organization of former tribes (specially in
Gaul) and naturally evoluted to municipes (cities) since political
democratic organization was somehow foreign to those former tribes they
copied the organization of Rome just as you described it.

The praefectura was a sort of roman garrison established in a conquered
city/tribe whose loyalty was not very firm.

Vale,

Manius Villius Limitanus


Marcos Boehme wrote:

> Salvete, Quirites
>
> Some time ago, C Flavius Diocletianus, the Praetor and
> Governor of Germania issued a edict about the
> organization of their province in municipia. And now,
> L Sicinius Drusus touched this question again.
>
> Im curious to know in how the cities of ancient Roman
> Republic and Empire organize in the municipal level.
>
> According to Rostovtzeff (not very actual source, it
> seems) In the major cities there are a municipal
> Senate (called Decuriones), municipal Quaestores and
> Aedilis, the equivalent to Consules (Duoviri or
> Quatrumviri Iure Dicundo) and Comitiae Municipalis.
>
> There are a Lex, Iulia Municipalis, of 45 aC, issued
> by Caesar (i doesnt have the text).
>
> There are various types of cities:
> - Civitates, with the Duoviri;
> - Colonia, with a administrator, named by a higher
> authority (a Consul, or Emperor, perhaps?)
> - a Praefectura, with a named administrator,
> (Praefectus) as above;
> - Municipia, with a more complete organization.
>
> Does anyone have more informations?
>
>
> Marcus Arminius Maior
> Propraetor Brasiliae
> Aedilis Plebis
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! GeoCities
> Tenha seu lugar na Web. Construa hoje mesmo sua home page no Yahoo! GeoCities. É fácil e grátis!
> http://br.geocities.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>






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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Tax payer numbers
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Mon, 16 Jul 2001 22:05:18 -0400

Titus Octavius Pius at from@-------- wrote:

> I apologize if I've missed something; but what are the collection costs?
> Aren't citizens (With the current taxation proposal) supposed to deposit
> $12 on a Nova Roman bank account? If I've understood PayPal correctly,
> you get as much money as I send you, no costs involved.
>
> By the way, will Nova Roma be subject to US taxation, or are we as a
> non-profit organization exempt from taxes? I'm not well-versed in US
> legislation.
>
> Just trying to get a better understanding of the big picture, no offense
> in here.

Salve citizen,

I think you are mistaking the tax as using the current donation system. It
is an interesting idea actually... The current proposal is that citizens
shall use snail mail to send funds to a provincial appointed with the duties
of collecting the funds. I think this is a very important subject to address
because I too still feel shrouded in a think layer of fog on this subject.

I think we should have as many means of paying tax as possible. I, for one
support the PayPal idea. It is easy, efficient and free. A great alternative
in my eyes.

Vale,


"Quamquam cupido sis delictum ab sui crebro suum mater ab vitualis"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia

Canada Orientalis Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/canorien

Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--












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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Ignore, Just a Test
From:	"Andrew Rielly" <arielly1@-------->
Date:	Mon, 16 Jul 2001 20:53:30 -0700

Is this a test of how many "test" messages we get before snapping? :-)

Publicus

-----Original Message-----
From: A. Cato <a.cato@-------->
To: novaroma@-------- <novaroma@-------->
Date: Monday, July 16, 2001 8:36 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Ignore, Just a Test


>Simply a Test
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>




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Subject:	[novaroma] Ignore, testing
From:	exitil@--------
Date:	Mon, 16 Jul 2001 20:11:45 EDT

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Main List Content;
From:	radams36@--------
Date:	Tue, 17 Jul 2001 04:01:10 -0000

> I HEARTILY agree. Would that we saw more of Roma's great virtues:
> Aequitas (fair dealings and impartiality) and Liberalitas
> (generosity, open-mindedness) to say nothing of Humanitas
> (refinement, learning, culture and civility). I wish there were
more
> oppportunities for thoughtful, reflective discussions of Roma's
great
> history and the renaissance of Roman culture and ideals here.
>
> We are examples to each other and to newcomers each and every day.
> Let's think of that before descending to mere back-bencher
squabbling.
>
>
> ---
> cura et valeas,
>
> @____@ Julilla Sempronia Magna
> |||| http://julilla.tripod.com/
> Daily Life in Ancient Rome
> @____@ ju--------a@--------
> ||||

Salwe, Julilla!

Thank you for the response and the backing - you've stated the case
more eloquently and completely than I, which I appreciate. Maybe some
of the listers who have remained in the background and less vocal
will take heart from your words and put in their 'two sesterces' more
often! Thanks again for your courteous and thoughtful response!

Valete,

R Palaeologvs





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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Rome - Byzantium
From:	radams36@--------
Date:	Tue, 17 Jul 2001 03:53:57 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> wrote:
> Salvete omnes; et salve, Palaeologe.

Salwete, Gnae! (Hope I got that right!)

>
> --- radams36@-------- wrote:
>
> <<snipped>>
>
> > Does the citizenry, on the whole, consider the Byzantine Empire
as
> > the continuation of the Roman Empire (as, indeed, the citizens of
> > Byzantium certainly did)? Would discussion of the Byzantine
Empire be
> > considered appropriate on the list in and of itself, or only as
it
> > relates directly to the Western Roman Empire? At what point do we
> > make the distinction on which is which (Roman or Byzantine), if
at
> > all?
>
> A fine line of conversation, Palaeologe.

Thank you!

In my humble opinion, the
> Byzantine Empire would be one of the two offsprings of the Roman
> civilization. The other would be Western Christiandom, and the
various
> Germanic-Roman kingdoms that took the place of the Roman Empire in
the
> West.

At what point do you make the 'cut-off'? Based on this statement, the
crowning of Charlemagne may be a good point at which to make the
Roman/Byzantine distinction. The Gothic kings of Italy still paid
tribute to the Emperor in Byzantium and accepted the status of his
vassals for quite some time, but with Charlemagne, there was a clear
break from that. To me, that makes more sense than the conquest of
Rome by Theodoric.

Most of the legislation and cultural heritage of these kingdoms
> was mainly Roman, and it is through this heritage that our own
> civilization comes from.
>
Well said!

>
> =====
> Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
> Gnaeus Salix Astur.
> Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.
>
Thank you very much for your thoughtful, intelligent response, friend
Gnaeus!

Valete!

R Palaeologvs





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Subject:	[novaroma] list posts
From:	PompeiaAntoniaCaesar <europamoon7@-------->
Date:	Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:37:38 -0700 (PDT)

Savete Omnes,

There is a big difference between studying Roma and
living it. Although I find some posts difficult to
swallow at times, I have to realize that we are a
nation with real citizens debating real issues and
things are bound to get heated. Things could be
calmer, more dignified and more pretentious but are we
really being ourselves when we behave this way? And
as heated as the discussions get they somehow always
manage to get resolved. Even though I don't condone
abusive behavior I have to realize that that's the
nature of the beast. I try to look upon it as a
passionate interchange that will, at some point, be
concluded.

As far as the repeated discussions on the same topic
go, I will say that as soon as the issue discussed is
resolved we'll all stop debating about it. The tax
issue, for one has not been resolved yet so why
shouldn't we continue to debate about it until it is?
As for the lead/calcium deposit debate, I found it
most interesting. I had wondered about this issue for
a while. What appeals to some may not appeal to
others. And if a particular discussion does not seem
interesting to some they don't have to read them. The
posts ARE topically listed. Anything and everything
pertaining to Rome is interesting to me and it is with
discussion that enlightenment comes.

Vale,

Pompeia Antonia Caesar

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Ignore, Just a Test
From:	a.cato@--------
Date:	Tue, 17 Jul 2001 06:29:44 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "Andrew Riell--------lt;ariell--------...> wrote:
> Is this a test of how many "test" messages we get before
snapping? :-)

> Publicus

Salve Publicus: Please, I wouldn't want you snapping. :-) I have
been having some minor problems that I have been trying to fix up
with out taking my machine back in to the shop. I will do my best to
keep any tests to an absolute minimum, and try to spread them out to
other lists if I have to do any more. Hopefully these were the last.
Please try to ignore them. I apologize for the wasted bandwidth.
Vale, A. Cato
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: A. Cato <a.cato@-------->
> To: novaroma@-------- <novaroma@-------->
> Date: Monday, July 16, 2001 8:36 PM
> Subject: [novaroma] Ignore, Just a Test
>
>
> >Simply a Test
> >
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Ignore, Just a Test
From:	"Andrew Rielly" <arielly1@-------->
Date:	Tue, 17 Jul 2001 00:27:38 -0700

Hehe, no worries.

I am joking, yes, just joking!

It is a very strange week for a vengeful mad genius bent on the destruction
of mankind! Please excuse my strange humor for the next few days!
Mua-hahahahaha-heHEHE. I am off to plot evil nefarious deeds now.

Hmmm...seriously you could send jokes out as test messages!

Publicus

-----Original Message-----
From: a.cato@-------- <a.cato@-------->
To: novaroma@-------- <novaroma@-------->
Date: Monday, July 16, 2001 11:35 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Ignore, Just a Test


>--- In novaroma@--------, "Andrew Riell--------lt;ariell--------...> wrote:
>> Is this a test of how many "test" messages we get before
>snapping? :-)
>
>> Publicus
>
> Salve Publicus: Please, I wouldn't want you snapping. :-) I have
>been having some minor problems that I have been trying to fix up
>with out taking my machine back in to the shop. I will do my best to
>keep any tests to an absolute minimum, and try to spread them out to
>other lists if I have to do any more. Hopefully these were the last.
>Please try to ignore them. I apologize for the wasted bandwidth.
> Vale, A. Cato
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: A. Cato <a.cato@-------->
>> To: novaroma@-------- <novaroma@-------->
>> Date: Monday, July 16, 2001 8:36 PM
>> Subject: [novaroma] Ignore, Just a Test
>>
>>
>> >Simply a Test
>> >
>> >
>> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Municipia
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Tiberius=20Apollonius=20Cicatrix?= <consulromanus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 17 Jul 2001 10:53:49 +0100 (BST)

Salve!

This is a contribution I wrote some time ago about
this subject for my courses at university. I hope it
can help you further. Any questions? Feel free to mail
me.

Vale
Ti Apollonius Cicatrix

------------------

INSTITUTIONS IN ROMAN TOWNS AND COLONIES UNDER THE
EMPERORS


This text is about the local authority institutions,
namely the people in command and the laws the local
civilians had to follow. For this text I have used two
excerpts; one out of the Lex Irnitana and one out of
the Lex Ursonensis. First I will explain some things
about these two leges. The Lex Irnitana comes from the
community of Irni, which was granted the title of
municipium Latinum (autonomous local authority). It
consists of six plates of bronze found in 1981. The
Lex Ursonensis is also engraved on plates of bronze,
but these plates (found in 1870) are a copy from the
second half of the second century (under the Flavii).
The community was called Colonia Genetiva Iulia
Ursonensis (a town in Baetica, a little above where is
now Gibraltar), and the people who lived there were
colonists (plebeians of the Urbs Roma) sent there by
the emperor Augustus. I will start with a basic scheme
that summarizes all the laws that were granted in this
style:



GOVERNMENT
· ORDO DECURIONUM
· MAGISTRATES

SECTORS OF GOVERNMENT
· CULT: INFRASTRUCTURE, PERSONNEL, CEREMONIES
· MAINTENANCE OF INTERNAL ORDER
· DEFENSE AGAINST EXTERNAL THREATS
· ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE
· MANAGEMENT OF MUNICIPIUM PATRIMONY
· MANAGEMENT OF MUNICIPIUM FINANCES
· MAINTENANCE OF MUNICIPIUM INFRASTRUCTURE
· TOWN AND COUNTRY PLANNING
· MATERIAL CARE OF CITIZENS: FOOD AND WATER
· CULTURAL CARE OF CITIZENS: EDUCATION, LEISURE
· CONTACTS WITH THE OUTSIDE WORLD

MEANS OF POLICY
· MUNICIPIUM PERSONNEL
· FINANCIEL MEANS
· MUNERA, MUNITIO (WORKS)



All these different aspect will be dealt with in the
following text, starting with the most important form
of government, the ordo decurionum. This was an
organization of about 100 men, who take all decisions
and measures that have to be taken in their
municipium. Those people are called decuriones,
conscripti or senatores. Their rights and duties were
almost the same in every municipia Latina or colonia
Latina. Chapter 30 of the Lex Irnitana:

"The position of decuriones and conscripti: Whoever
are now senators or substitute senators, or decuriones
or conscripti, or substitute decuriones or conscripti
in the Municipium Flavium Irnitanum and those who are
hereafter chosen or chosen in replacement under this
statute to be counted as decuriones or conscripti,
whoever of all of these ought to be decuriones or
conscripti under this statute are to be decuriones or
conscripti of the Municipium Flavium Irnitanum, with
the fullest rights and highest status as of the
decuriones or conscripti of any Latin municipium."

This chapter shows clearly that in every municipium in
the Roman world there were the same institutions, and
consequently also the same laws; there must have been
a blueprint that was used to construct a law for every
municipium. The decuriones, who ruled the municipium,
were assigned for the rest of their lives, and only
when one died or one was removed out of the ordo
decurionum for clear and obvious reasons such as abuse
of his position etc. At various points in time they
came together to discuss matters and take decisions
concerning the municipium. If they had to vote on a
certain matter, the order in which they had to vote
was determined by their social status: how many
children they had, if they had ever been duumvir (see
further), how long they had been decurio etc. The
measures and decisions they took were always written
down in the archives by the scribes of the municipium,
and important matters were engraved on bronze plates.
The decuriones were also bound to certain rights,
beside of their duties. In the first place of course
in watching games in the amphitheatre, where they had
their own space where no-one else could sit down
except the magistrates, and in Urso this was taken
care of by chapter 125 of their statute:

"[…] No-one except those who are written above is to
sit in that place, which place shall have been
granted, assigned, or left for the decuriones, nor is
anyone to lead anyone else to sit in those places nor
is anyone to order anyone else to be led to sit
knowingly with wrongful deceit. If anyone shall have
led anyone else to sit or ordered anyone else to be
led knowingly with wrongful deceit, he is to be
condemned to pay 5000 sesterces to the colonists of
the colonia Genetiva Iulia for each occasion, whenever
he shall have done anything in that matter contrary to
these rules, and there is to be action, suit and claim
for that sum according to this statute by whoever of
them shall wish in a recuperatorial trial before the
duumvir or prefect and there is to be right and
power."

The structure of such a municipium is easy to compare
with the structure of the empire itself: the
decuriones are the senate of a municipium, in a
municipium there were also aediles and quaestores, and
the two consuls of the empire can be compared with the
two duumviri iure dicundo. An example of an
inscription of a career from the year 180:

CN IVLIO CN / FIL VERO COS / DESIG II AVGVR / LEG AVG
PR PR / PROVINC SYRIAE / LEG AVG PR PR / PROVINC
BRITTANAE / LEG AVG PR PR PRO/VINCIAE GERMAN /
INFERIORIS PRAEF / AERARI SATVRNI / LEG LEG XXX VLPIAE
/ PRAETOR TRIBVNO / PLEBIS QVAESTORI / AVG TRIBVNO
LATI/CLAVIO LEG X FRETEN/SIS TRIVMVIRO / A A A F F /
AEQVENSES / MUNICIPES (from CIL, III, 8714 + 2732)

Transcription: Cnaeo Iulio Cnaei filio Vero, consuli
designato II, auguro, legato Augusti pro praetore
provinciae Syriae, legato Augusti pro praetore
provinciae Brittaniae, legato Augusti pro praetore
provinciae Germaniae Inferioris, praefecto aerari
Saturni, legatus legionis XXX Ulpiae, praetori,
tribuno plebes, quaestori Augusti, tribuno laticlivio
legionis X Fretensis, triumviro aere argento auro
flando feriundo, Aequenses municipes.

The duumviri iure dicundo were occupied with the
administration of justice in the municipium (iure
dicundo, as in their title), and they are the ones who
can call an assembly of the decuriones when some
matters demand attention. This is a function that was
often given to the emperor as a sign of loyalty
towards him. Of course the emperor himself did not
execute this office, but sent someone in his place,
called a praefectus. This is a person out of the ordo
decurionum, who is at least 35 years old. Other
magistrates in the municipium are; as said before, the
quaestores (they administered the finances of the
municipium, but were controlled by the duumviri) and
the aediles, whose function is described in chapter 19
of the Lex Irnitana:

"[…] They are to have the right and power of managing
corn-supply, the sacred buildings, the sacred and holy
places, the town, the roads, the districts, the
drains, the baths and the market and of checking
weights and measures; of managing the vigiliae when
occasion arises; and of seeing to and doing whatever
else the decuriones or conscripti decide is to be done
by the aediles; likewise of seizing a pledge from the
municipes and incolae, which may not be more than
10000 sesterces per person per day; likewise of
imposing a fine on them or pronouncing a condemnation
against them not over 5000 sesterces per person per
day. And those aediles (already in office) and those
who are hereafter appointed under this statute are to
have jurisdiction and the right of granting or
assigning a iudex or recuperatores in those cases and
between those parties where the duumviri have
jurisdiction, up to 1000 sesterces, according to the
rules in this statute. […]"

Each of the magistrates was also granted a few public
slaves to help him perform his duty. In Urso the
retinue of a duumvir consisted of two lictors, one
servant, two scribes, two messengers, a clerk, a
crier, an haruspex (who predicts the future) and a
flute-player. The aediles got a scribe, four public
slaves, a crier, an haruspex and a flute-player.

Now we will continue with the different sectors of
government, starting with the cult. As we all know,
religion was very important in the ancient Roman
Empire. Most of the religious duties were performed by
the magistrates mentioned above, but there were also
priests in a municipium, called pontifices, augures,
flamines or sacerdoti, mostly grouped in a college.
Chapter 66 of the Lex Ursonensis:

"[…] And for those pontiffs and augurs, who shall be
in each of their colleges, and for their children,
there is to be exemption from military service and
compulsory public service prescribed by what is
sacred, as for a Roman pontiff, and their periods of
military service are all to be credited to them.
Concerning auspices and whatever things shall pertain
to those matters, jurisdiction and right of judgment
are to belong to the augurs. And those pontiffs and
augurs at the games, whenever the magistrates shall
give them publicly, and when those pontiffs and augurs
shall perform the public sacrifices of the colonia
Genetiva Iulia, are to have the right and power of
wearing togae praetextae. And those pontiffs and
augurs are to have the right and power to watch games
and combats of gladiators among the decuriones."

The maintenance of the internal order was mostly in
hands of the vigiliae, something like the police in
our times. In both of these law texts there has
nothing survived about this topic, only a chapter that
forbids illegal gatherings and conspiracies. Only some
chapters about defence against external threats have
survived, saying that the duumvir or praefectus may
lead the armed citizens outside the city to defend the
territory. These threats were mostly dealt with by the
legions, but it might have been possible that in some
cases the citizens were also called to arms to defend
their properties. The duumvir or praefectus leading
them then got the military rank of a tribunus militum,
and all the powers and duties according to this title.
The boundaries of a town are also determined by law
and may not be touched by anyone. In most cases there
was a circle ploughed around the town to indicate the
boundaries, because not all towns had walls.

Every municipium has its own patrimony and
infrastructure, which has to be maintained and
controlled. The funds needed to do this will be
discussed further in the text, but let us first look
at the actual infrastructure. Most of the municipia
owned (farm)lands and woods outside the town
boundaries and municipal buildings within the
boundaries. These places were public domain to all of
the inhabitants, but sometimes they had to pay
entrance fees. The buildings we are talking about are
baths, (amphi)theatres temples, and of course the
forum.

Town and country planning is not an invention of the
last century; in fact it existed even in the Roman
Empire. Some excerpts out of the Lex Irnitana and Lex
Ursonensis:

"No-one in the town of the Municipium Flavium
Irnitanum or where buildings are continuous with that
town, is to unroof or destroy or see to the demolition
of a building, except by the resolution of the
decuriones or conscripti, when the majority of them is
present, unless he is going to replace it within the
next year. […]" (L.I. ch.62)

"No-one is to prepare a new ustrina (funeral pyre),
where a dead person shall not previously have been
burnt, nearer the town than 500 paces. […]" (L.U.
chapter 74)

"No-one is to have tile works with a capacity of more
than 300 tiles or tile-like objects in the town of the
colonia Iulia. […]" (L.U. chapter 76)

The territory of a town can be inspected by one of the
duumviri, on a decision of the decuriones (with a
decree). Of course there were also public works in a
municipium, like building new baths or an
amphitheatre, or paving a road etc. These works will
be discussed further in the text, but I mentioned them
here already because in regards to city and country
planning, the leges tell that it is forbidden to touch
the properties of individual citizens when such works
are being executed. But this rule also works in the
opposite direction: no citizen is allowed to add
public roads or waters to his property.

About the daily life in the municipia or coloniae
nothing is stated in one of the two leges. Of course
people could enjoy recreation and education, and they
were supported by distributions of food and water.
Recreation mostly consisted in watching the games at
the arena, and the children got their education in
public schools and most of the towns had a library.

Municipia and coloniae of course also held
relationships with other towns and the magistracy.
Various missions could be sent: to congratulate the
emperor on e special day or on achieving something
(birthday, victory in war, etc.), to consult an
oracle, to offer the patronage to an influential
person, etc. The duumviri must call a meeting of the
decuriones to decide which ambassadors will be sent
and how much money they get, chapter <H> of the Lex
Irnitana:

"A duumvir is to give each ambassador under the
heading of daily expenses as much as the decuriones or
conscripti decided was to be given."

A municipium or colonia can't operate properly without
certain means of policy. In the first place money, but
how did they get it and where did it come from? When
important people died, they mostly gave away a part of
their fortune to their municipium or colonia. In most
cases they also determined what the money must be used
for: banquets, gladiatorial combats, distributions,
etc. An example in an inscription about Pliny the
younger (translated by myself):

C Plinius L f Ouf Caecilius Secundus, […] has ordered
by will to decorate the baths for the sum of 300000
sesterces and furthermore 200000 sesterces for
maintenance, he also gave with a legate 1866666
sesterces to the municipium as cost of maintenance for
his 100 freedmen, of which, after these men died, the
interest would serve to give a banquet each year to
the people of the municipium, during his life he has
already given 500000 sesterces as cost of maintenance
for the boys and girls of the municipium, and a
library with 100000 sesterces for maintenance.

Another source of money are the fines, imposed by
decuriones, aediles or duumviri. In the two leges the
amount varies between 1000 and 100000 sesterces.
People also had to pay taxes, but information on this
topic is very scarce. People who became decurio had to
pay a summa honoraria, a sum of money they paid to the
municipium or colonia to be received in the ordo
decurionum, just as the senatores did in the Urbs
Roma. And the local authorities also leased out lands
and loaned money at interest.

But money wasn't all they needed; they also needed
people who did the work, slaves. They did not do the
big infrastructure works, but formed the staff of a
municipal magistrate as scriba, lictor, tibicen, etc.
They got paid from the common funds of the municipium
or colonia, and their wage was called aes
apparitorium. Of course they also had to administer an
oath because most of them had a rather important
function (mostly financial). Chapter 81 of the Lex
Ursonensis:

"Whoever shall be duumviri or aediles of the colonia
Iulia, they are to administer an oath to their
scribes, who shall record public money and the
accounts of the colonists, before they write or handle
the public records, in a contio, openly, before the
light of day, on a market day, facing the forum, by
Iupiter and the ancestral gods, that they will guard
the public money of that colony and keep true
accounts, as they shall deem it proper, without
wrongful deceit, and they will not falsify records
knowingly with wrongful deceit. […]"

As I said before, the greater works (construction
etc.) were not performed by slaves, but by the
citizens of the community. Those works or munera are
controlled by the aediles and the citizens who are
working must be between 14 and 60 years old. Most of
these munera are decided by the decuriones, but they
could also be contracted out to rich citizens (who got
their money back from the common funds of the
citizens). Chapter 98 of the Lex Ursonensis:

"Whatever construction work the decuriones of this
colony shall have decreed, if the majority of the
decuriones shall have been present, when that matter
shall be discussed, it is to be lawful for that
construction work to take place, provided that they
not decree more each year for each adult man than five
days' work each and for pairs of draught animals for
each yoke three days' work each. And the aediles who
shall then be in office are to be in charge of that
construction work according to the decree of the
decuriones. As the decuriones shall have decided, so
they are to see that the construction work is done,
provided that work be not exacted unwillingly of that
person who shall be less than fourteen years or more
than sixty years old. Whoever in that colony shall
have a domicile or estate and shall not be a colonist
of that colony, he is to be liable to the same
construction work as a colonist."

And I would like to finish off with some general
chapters about the law itself in the Lex Irnitana:

"On whatever matters there is no explicit provision or
rule in this statute, concerning the law under which
the municipes of the Municipium Flavium Irnitanum
should deal with each other, they are to deal with
each other in all these matters under the civil law
under which Roman citizens deal or will deal with each
other. Whatever does not take place contrary to this
statute and whatever is done in such a way that it
does not take place or is not done with wrongful
intent, is to be legal and valid." (Chapter 93)

"As the municipes should obey this statute, so the
incolae of that municipium are to obey it." (Chapter
94)

Any duumvir who is in charge of the administration of
justice in that municipium is to see that this statute
is inscribed on bronze at the earliest possible moment
and affixed in the most prominent place in that
municipium so that it may be properly read from ground
level." (Chapter 95)


THE END

Written by Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix (aka Dennis
Temmerman)
Finished III ID. APRILIS MMDCCLIV AUC (April 10th
2001)


=====
Tiberius Apollonius Cicatrix
civis Novae Romae
____________________________

"De te autem, Catilina, cum quiescunt, probant; cum patiuntur, decernunt; cum tacent, clamant." (M. Tullius Cicero: In Catilinam I, 20)

____________________________________________________________
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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Tax payer numbers
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 17 Jul 2001 08:27:17 -0400

Salvete

(Apologies for conjoining two replies in one...)

> From: from@-------- [mailto:from@--------]On Behalf Of
Kristoffer From
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 7:35 PM
>
> By the way, will Nova Roma be subject to US taxation, or are we as a
> non-profit organization exempt from taxes? I'm not well-versed in US
> legislation.

Nova Roma is currently incorporated in the state of Maine as a non-profit
organization, and officially recognized as such by the Internal Revenue
Service. We are thus exempt from taxes as an organization.

> From: Amulius Claudius Petrus [mailto:pkkt@--------]
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 10:05 PM
>
> I think you are mistaking the tax as using the current donation system. It
> is an interesting idea actually... The current proposal is that citizens
> shall use snail mail to send funds to a provincial appointed with the
duties
> of collecting the funds.

You are incorrect. Under the current proposal, the Consular Quaestors would
have the ability to set up PayPal to collect the annual taxes (thus
bypassing the provincial publicani if desired):

"...Citizens can and shall pay their taxes directly to the Consular
Quaestors through those means they shall provide." (paragraph IV.E. of the
Senatus Consultum on taxation).

While it isn't a definitive requirement to set up PayPal for taxes (and it
was left open-ended on purpose, in case the Quaestores found an even better
alternative to PayPal), the Quaestores certainly would have the authority to
do so, and I think all of us here would expect them to (indeed, I would
consider it a failing if they did not).

The provincial officers you mention (the publicani) are given a similar
latitude; they are free to set up systems of collection which are
appropriate for their locale. I would imagine that would mean snail-mail in
most cases, but we are nothing if not an enterprising bunch.

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org




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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Rome - Byzantium
From:	"Gaius Marcius Coriolanus" <coriolanus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 17 Jul 2001 12:32:00 -0000

Salvete

I see it other way than Gnaeus Salix. I like Byzantines but they were
not children of Rome (by me). Rome had died when left their Gods.
It's cruel but Constantine started new empire.

Gnaeus Salix wrote about two offsprings. In my opinion it was
something absolutely different. Western and eastern christian empires
had just few points common with old Roma. I mean the way like
consuls, emperors or any other rulers tried to see their reign. In
republic it was just a elected citizen. In early empire it was
princeps, primus inter pares. When he was the first why not to be the
God? But it was still roman view on gods. And late empires and
especially Byzantium gave him new property. He was chosen by God to
lead his people. The Christian view on God is much more different
from Roman. Thats the thing that makes the greatest diference.

Gaius Marcius Coriolanus





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Subject:	[novaroma] ATTN (Religio Romana): ante diem XVI Kalendas Sextilias (July 17th)
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <amg@-------->
Date:	Tue, 17 Jul 2001 14:37:22 +0100

Salvete omnes

This is one of the dies comitiales (C), when committees of citizens can vote
on political or criminal matters.

Today is the aniversary of the dedication of a temple of Honos (Honour) and
Virtus(Virtue) which stands just outside of the Porta Capena. The first part
of the temple was dedicated to Honos and was built by Q. Fabius Cunctator in
233 BCE after his Ligurian campaign. M. Claudius Marcellus vowed a temple to
Honos and Virtus in 222, and after his capture of Syracuse in 211 BCE he
renewed his vow and wanted to rededicate the earlier temple of Honos to both
deities in 208 BCE. Nevertheless the Collegium Pontificum forbade this act
as it is only allowed to vow a temple to several deities if there is a
'cella' (temple chamber) for each deity. As such M. Claudius Marcellus
restored the old temple of Honos and built an additional 'cella' for Virtus
which was dedicated in 205 BCE by his son. In it he placed many of the
artistic treasures that he had brought from Syracuse.
It should be noted that there is another temple of Honos outside the Colline
Gate, and another of Honos and Virtus built by Marius on the slope of a Hill
(the Capitolline Hill?) after his defeat of the Cimbri and Teutones (the
latter was the meeting place of the Senate when Cicero was recalled from
exile). This causes some uncertainty as to the actual temple celebrated
today, although it is most probably the one referred.

Today is also a celebration of Victory on the Capitol. Though the object of
the celebration is not certain, it seems that it is the aniversary of the
dedication of one of the statues of Victory placed in the temple of Iuppiter
Optimus Maximus on the Capitol. One of the statues is made of gold and was
sent by Hiero of Syracuse to encourage the Romans after the disastrous
battle of Lake Trasimene. Another statue of Victory driving a 'biga'
(two-horse chariot) was in the vestibule.

The month of Quinctilis is sacred to Iuppiter. It was renamed Iulius in 44
BCE in honour of the deified C. Iulius Caesar.

Dii vos bene ament,
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex




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Subject:	[novaroma] Finding !
From:	manius_constantinus_serapio@--------
Date:	Tue, 17 Jul 2001 07:19:04 -0000

AVETE OMNES!

I would like to inform you about a great finding!
In Pisa (Italy) a group of archeologists has found a roman port!
All is very well-preserved. There are many objects, products, food,
human remains and.... 16 ships! Three of them have been recognized
as "onerariae" (commercial), and excavations are going on.
The excavations are visitable all saturdays for 3 years.
Far any information, please contact me.

VALETE MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO





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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Re: taxes
From:	bsmith3121@--------
Date:	Tue, 17 Jul 2001 10:25:13 EDT

Salvete,

I also believe this to be an excellent idea. The annual tax could be $12.00 for instance, and the Censors could establish various accolades on those who would like to contribute financially "above and beyond" the tax. For many people this would be a one-time gift to the state. Others may wish to "earn" the distinction on an annual basis. I, for one, would love to be an Aurum donor.

Valete,

Caius Titinius Varus

In a message dated Mon, 16 Jul 2001 5:40:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@--------> writes:

> Salvete
>
> Ooooh I LIKE this idea. In fact, this meshes pretty well with something else
> I've had kicking around my skull lately; namely, doing an annual
> fund-raising drive each Autumn. (That, and a recruiting drive in the
> Spring.)
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus [mailto:lsicinius@--------]
> > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 3:39 PM
> >
> > Exactaly what we offer these citizens would depend on the level of
> > money required above the minimum tax. A web page with thier pictures
> > and names would be a good start. A Diploma stating that they are a
> > Pyropus, Argentum, or Aurum donor. Subscriptions to the Eagle,
> > Sesterces, or even a flag could be offered.
>
> Definitely a certificate for all levels. Putting up a special web page
> shouldn't prove too difficult, either. A sestercius coin and bumper sticker
> for Pyropus, 5 coins, a sticker, and a flag for Argentum, and 10 coins, a
> sticker, a flag, and a subscription for Aurum, perhaps? (Just off the top of
> my head.)
>
> > The Censors could set aside, as names of distinction, the agnomens
> > Pyropus, Argenteus, and Aureus, and these citizens would have the
> > honor of using these agnomens for that year.
>
> I think this is an exceptional idea, if the Censors agree.
>
> > it would work something like this,
> >
> > Paying $25.00 above the minimum tax would be a pyropus donor.
> > Paying $50.00 above the minimun tax would be a Argentum donor.
> > Paying $100.00 above the minimum tax would be a Aurum donor.
>
> Outstanding idea. It might be a tad hard to manage if it was done this way
> year-round, but if we did a special fundraiser during, say, September (in
> time for the Senate to include the funds in the coming year's budget; makes
> it MUCH easier to deal with), parceling out the gifts might not be a
> complete nightmare.
>
> Valete,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> Consul
>
> email: germanicus@--------
> AIM: Flavius Vedius
> www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
>
>
>
>
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Tax payer numbers
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Tue, 17 Jul 2001 11:06:18 -0400

Flavius Vedius Germanicus at germanicus@-------- wrote:
>
> The provincial officers you mention (the publicani) are given a similar
> latitude; they are free to set up systems of collection which are
> appropriate for their locale. I would imagine that would mean snail-mail in
> most cases, but we are nothing if not an enterprising bunch.

Salve,

I see. Although would it not be easier to send all payments directly to the
Quaestores, bypassing the publicani? It seems unnecessary for citizens to
send there payments to there local publicani then for him/her to send it to
the Quaestores.

I am curious to hear what you think the benefits are in having publicani.
Vale,

"Quamquam cupido sis delictum ab sui crebro suum mater ab vitualis"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia

Canada Orientalis Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/canorien

Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--






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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Tax payer numbers
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 17 Jul 2001 11:36:51 -0400

Salve

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Amulius Claudius Petrus [mailto:pkkt@--------]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 11:06 AM
>
> I see. Although would it not be easier to send all payments directly to
the
> Quaestores, bypassing the publicani? It seems unnecessary for citizens to
> send there payments to there local publicani then for him/her to send it
to
> the Quaestores.
>
> I am curious to hear what you think the benefits are in having publicani.

They were included because of the objections of some cives in Europe and
South America who did not have credit cards, and who were leery of the
prospect of paying the relatively large fund-transfer fees between
themselves and America. By having the Publicani collect the funds locally
from cives without credit cards, and then transfer them all in one lump sum,
we minimize the fund transfer fees that would have to be paid (although
ideally the publicani would themselves have credit cards, and would be able
to transfer their collected monies that way, eliminating the problem
altogether).

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org




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Subject:	[novaroma] Propraetor
From:	ksterne@--------
Date:	Tue, 17 Jul 2001 16:15:07 -0000

>>ITEM V. APPOINTMENT OF GOVERNOR FOR AMERICA AUSTRORIENTALIS

L. Sicinius Drusus is hereby appointed as propraetor of provincia
America
Austrorientalis.<<

I have just returned from a trip so my congratulations to Lucius
Sicinius is belated, but heartfelt!

Valete,
Gaius Popillius Laenas





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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: taxes
From:	PompeiaAntoniaCaesar <europamoon7@-------->
Date:	Tue, 17 Jul 2001 10:21:05 -0700 (PDT)

--- Maximina Octavia <myownq@--------> wrote:
>
>
> Lucius Sicinius Drusus <lsicinius@-------->
> wrote:
> --- In novaroma@--------, PompeiaAntoniaCaesar
> <europamoon7@--------> wrote:
> > Avete Omnes,
> >
> > I think we have to offer more than just voting
> rights
> > to encourage membership. How many people in Nova
> Roma
> > even care about the voting process or century
> points?
> > That's not to say that it isn't important but many
> > thing attract individuals to NR and politics may
> just
> > not be someone's cup of tea (or wine, I should
> say).
> > If we offer other benefits along with century
> points
> > and voting rights it will certainly be more
> > encouragement for those not interested in politics
> to
> > join of which I suspect there are many such as
> these
> > in NR.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Pompeia Antonia Caesar
> >
>
> Salvete,
>
> I think Pompeia Antonia has a point here. We do have
> many citizens who
> aren't intrested in politics. We need to offer other
> things to
> citizens who pay more than the minimum tax rate.
>
> I think we should put the idea of Century Points
> aside for now.
> Allthough the concept that those who pay more have a
> greater voice in
> public affairs is in keeping with the mos maiorum, I
> fear that too
> many moderns will consider it selling policital
> power.
>
> We can look at how many non profits handle fund
> raising however. They
> have things like silver and gold sponsership, and
> rewards for these
> sponsers. We can do the same. I suggest three
> levels, Pyropus
> (Bronze), Argentum (Silver) and Aurum (Gold)
> Sponsership levels.
>
> Exactaly what we offer these citizens would depend
> on the level of
> money required above the minimum tax. A web page
> with thier pictures
> and names would be a good start. A Diploma stating
> that they are a
> Pyropus, Argentum, or Aurum donor. Subscriptions to
> the Eagle,
> Sesterces, or even a flag could be offered.
>
> The Censors could set aside, as names of
> distinction, the agnomens
> Pyropus, Argenteus, and Aureus, and these citizens
> would have the
> honor of using these agnomens for that year.
>
> it would work something like this,
>
> Paying $25.00 above the minimum tax would be a
> pyropus donor.
> Paying $50.00 above the minimun tax would be a
> Argentum donor.
> Paying $100.00 above the minimum tax would be a
> Aurum donor.
>
> Valete,
> L. Sicinius Drusus
>
> Salvete,
>
> I think that Drusus and Pompeia are really on to
> something here. This is a brilliant idea.
>
> This covers all the bases and if (just to clarify)
> we could ask a minimun of $12 U.S. then those that
> cannot afford more can have a choice.
>
> Of course, it would be good, as someone else
> suggested, to have small incentives for their Gold,
> Silver, Bronze memberships similar to PBS whom I
> have worked for in the past where they offer gifts
> for higher than minimum donation.
>
> Perhaps, videos and/or books could be donated, The
> Eagle could be sent free to higher levels of
> donation, and we also have coins, bumper stickers,
> beautiful flags, soon membership certificates and I
> am sure that we could come up with other tangible
> incentives or "gifts of appreciation" if we put our
> heads together.
>
> Personally, I am working on a site where 15% of the
> proceeds will go to Nova Roma. Anyone with some
> talent might think about doing the same. The
> Lawrences (Laurencius (sp) and Varia Cassia) have a
> very nice website with products that I am sure some
> of us could use. In other words, *Shop Macellum*
> first for your Roman product needs. This helps
> everyone.
>
> Valete, Maximina


Ave Maximina,

Point well made. We should support each other as a
community and network within our group. The more we
have to offer in the ways of services and products the
more we will attract new members and keep the current
ones as well. Donating a portion of the profits from
a member's business is extremely beneficial in more
ways than just economicly. It says that you're
putting your money where you mouth is as well as your
heart and your trust.

Vale,

Pompeia Antonia Caesar

>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


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Subject:	[novaroma] Expansion and Taxes
From:	"John M. Osborne" <john@-------->
Date:	Tue, 17 Jul 2001 10:44:53 -0500

I realize that Nova Roma is founded, and primarily attainable, in the
meta-world of the Internet. Rather than focusing on that, though, we
should be looking to the outlying communities for expansion membership.
I am a member of the SCA as well, and we actively search out new
members. This is done through public performances, oration, education
programs, and varying outreach. One of the requirements of our priests
(in NR) is that they perform and establish local ritual and
temple/altars. Let's use this to extend our presence. We do *not* need
to be only WWW, we can be local. If only one person in the immediate
area has access to the 'net, then so be it. That person may become the
regional governor and liason.

I feel the issue of taxation is a good one. We need to begin procuring
monies for activities and various expenditures. It was asked, "Where
would the treasury be?" What would people think of using the Forum for
collecting taxes. Rather than sending those regional forum taxes in
immediately, maintain a local vault of funds for the use of the Region.
Then, when a call for taxes (at the end of February) occurs, the
requisite amount can be sent in to the Imperial Treasury. This might go
a long ways to smoothing over animosity that might be created by
immediately sending taxes to Nova Roma superior. It would show that we
are interested in developing and supporting our local citizens.

This is an idea not simply formed by me, but by others in this area
interested in Nova Roma. Two persons have expressed their interest in
joining, but only if they now that there will be a local interest from
the Senate, rather than the entire empire first. Remember we are here
to rebuild. This requires appeasing new citizens, and creating a bright star
for future citizens.

C. Licinius Macer Gallia





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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Rome - Byzantium
From:	radams36@--------
Date:	Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:45:21 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "Gaius Marcius Coriolanus" <coriolanus@c...>
wrote:
> Salvete
>
> I see it other way than Gnaeus Salix. I like Byzantines but they
were
> not children of Rome (by me). Rome had died when left their Gods.
> It's cruel but Constantine started new empire.
>
> Gnaeus Salix wrote about two offsprings. In my opinion it was
> something absolutely different. Western and eastern christian
empires
> had just few points common with old Roma. I mean the way like
> consuls, emperors or any other rulers tried to see their reign. In
> republic it was just a elected citizen. In early empire it was
> princeps, primus inter pares. When he was the first why not to be
the
> God? But it was still roman view on gods. And late empires and
> especially Byzantium gave him new property. He was chosen by God to
> lead his people. The Christian view on God is much more different
> from Roman. Thats the thing that makes the greatest diference.
>
> Gaius Marcius Coriolanus

Salvete!

Thank you for the opinion and thoughtful discourse. I always
considered the state from more of a political standpoint, by which
standard I think the fixing of Rome's fall to Theodoric is not a
valid end point for the Roman Empire - I don't consider either the
Roman Empire or Roman Republic to be constrained strictly by
geography (if so, then the Roman Empire ended when Constantine moved
the capital - an idea I don't think many subscribe to at all). Your
perspective in approaching the question from a religious standpoint
never occurred to me, although I would have to say there is validity
to it. Thank you very much for some thought-provoking input!

Vale,

R Palaeologus





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Subject:	[novaroma] About Yahoogroups
From:	exitil@--------
Date:	Tue, 17 Jul 2001 13:14:56 EDT

For some reason none of my mailing lists are working - including ones I just
created a few days ago using alternate screen names. Is this problem
happening to anyone else, or does anyone know how to fix it? None of the
mail is getting through to the people on the list, even though everything is
set up right. Yahoo help doesnt have anything that helps...




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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Re: taxes
From:	Daniel Dreesbach <stakor2000@-------->
Date:	Tue, 17 Jul 2001 08:06:39 -0700 (PDT)

How how establishing various classes of membership?

example


Councillor-- $25, right to vote, hold office, be
Senator
Regular--$15, right to vote, hold office, and head a
gens
Associate--free right to vote





- bsmith3121@-------- wrote:
> Salvete,
>
> I also believe this to be an excellent idea. The
> annual tax could be $12.00 for instance, and the
> Censors could establish various accolades on those
> who would like to contribute financially "above and
> beyond" the tax. For many people this would be a
> one-time gift to the state. Others may wish to
> "earn" the distinction on an annual basis. I, for
> one, would love to be an Aurum donor.
>
> Valete,
>
> Caius Titinius Varus
>
> In a message dated Mon, 16 Jul 2001 5:40:07 PM
> Eastern Daylight Time, "Flavius Vedius Germanicus"
> <germanicus@--------> writes:
>
> > Salvete
> >
> > Ooooh I LIKE this idea. In fact, this meshes
> pretty well with something else
> > I've had kicking around my skull lately; namely,
> doing an annual
> > fund-raising drive each Autumn. (That, and a
> recruiting drive in the
> > Spring.)
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Lucius Sicinius Drusus
> [mailto:lsicinius@--------]
> > > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 3:39 PM
> > >
> > > Exactaly what we offer these citizens would
> depend on the level of
> > > money required above the minimum tax. A web page
> with thier pictures
> > > and names would be a good start. A Diploma
> stating that they are a
> > > Pyropus, Argentum, or Aurum donor. Subscriptions
> to the Eagle,
> > > Sesterces, or even a flag could be offered.
> >
> > Definitely a certificate for all levels. Putting
> up a special web page
> > shouldn't prove too difficult, either. A
> sestercius coin and bumper sticker
> > for Pyropus, 5 coins, a sticker, and a flag for
> Argentum, and 10 coins, a
> > sticker, a flag, and a subscription for Aurum,
> perhaps? (Just off the top of
> > my head.)
> >
> > > The Censors could set aside, as names of
> distinction, the agnomens
> > > Pyropus, Argenteus, and Aureus, and these
> citizens would have the
> > > honor of using these agnomens for that year.
> >
> > I think this is an exceptional idea, if the
> Censors agree.
> >
> > > it would work something like this,
> > >
> > > Paying $25.00 above the minimum tax would be a
> pyropus donor.
> > > Paying $50.00 above the minimun tax would be a
> Argentum donor.
> > > Paying $100.00 above the minimum tax would be a
> Aurum donor.
> >
> > Outstanding idea. It might be a tad hard to manage
> if it was done this way
> > year-round, but if we did a special fundraiser
> during, say, September (in
> > time for the Senate to include the funds in the
> coming year's budget; makes
> > it MUCH easier to deal with), parceling out the
> gifts might not be a
> > complete nightmare.
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> > Consul
> >
> > email: germanicus@--------
> > AIM: Flavius Vedius
> > www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>


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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Finding !
From:	radams36@--------
Date:	Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:47:13 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, manius_constantinus_serapio@h... wrote:
> AVETE OMNES!
>
> I would like to inform you about a great finding!
> In Pisa (Italy) a group of archeologists has found a roman port!
> All is very well-preserved. There are many objects, products, food,
> human remains and.... 16 ships! Three of them have been recognized
> as "onerariae" (commercial), and excavations are going on.
> The excavations are visitable all saturdays for 3 years.
> Far any information, please contact me.
>
> VALETE MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO

Salvete, Mane!

I would be very interested in knowing more - do you have a web link
to share on this?

Vale,

R Palaeologus





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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Re: taxes
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 17 Jul 2001 14:00:25 -0400

Salve

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel Dreesbach [mailto:stakor2000@--------]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 11:07 AM
>
> How how establishing various classes of membership?
>
> example
>
> Councillor-- $25, right to vote, hold office, be Senator
> Regular--$15, right to vote, hold office, and head a gens
> Associate--free right to vote

Actually we have that already, in a slightly simplified form...

Assidui-- $12 (if the current Senatus Consultum is approved), right to
vote, hold office, be Senator, head a gens
Capiti Censi-- free, right to vote, head a gens, hold local/provincial
office

I still love the idea discussed earlier; have a program of recognition for
those who voluntarily contribute over and above the minimum annual fees.

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org




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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Expansion and Taxes
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 17 Jul 2001 14:23:24 -0400

Salvete

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John M. Osborne [mailto:john@--------]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 11:45 AM
>
> I realize that Nova Roma is founded, and primarily attainable, in the
> meta-world of the Internet. Rather than focusing on that, though, we
> should be looking to the outlying communities for expansion membership.
> I am a member of the SCA as well, and we actively search out new
> members. This is done through public performances, oration, education
> programs, and varying outreach. One of the requirements of our priests
> (in NR) is that they perform and establish local ritual and
> temple/altars. Let's use this to extend our presence. We do *not* need
> to be only WWW, we can be local. If only one person in the immediate
> area has access to the 'net, then so be it. That person may become the
> regional governor and liason.

If I may say so, we are already doing that. You have repeated a false
assertion that's a "pet peeve" of mine; to wit, that Nova Roma is "only
WWW". Face-to-face meetings, both on a local and broader level, are
constantly taking place. We have the beginnings of regularly scheduled local
meetings and local groups here in New Jersey, and I know Germania has a
framework in place to facilitate the creation of local chapters. Meetings go
on in California, Australia, Germania, Britannia, Nova Britannia,
Mediatlantica, America Austoccidentalis, and probably many more places than
I can remember off the top of my head. That is a good trend, and one I
believe will only continue and grow.

However, I am gratified that this topic has come up again, as the question
of local chapters is one that's close to my heart; I had actually brought it
up at the beginning of the year, but it didn't seem to get much traction at
the time. I still have a draft lex kicking around my hard drive somewhere
detailing my take on some of the organizational aspects of such groups
(similar to, but not the same as, the edictum posted by Diocletianus). I'll
see if I can't dig it out.

Certainly, approaching the subject on a province-by-province level will
prove unacceptable in the long run. To have a municipium be one thing in
Germania, and something completely different in Mediatlantica, would be
chaotic at best. I think some sort of standard nomenclature and
organizational plan would be beneficial.

I believe, however, before we start getting involved in the minutae of how
local chapters are named, formed, and organized, we need to be clearer on
what, precisely, their purpose would be and what, precisely, the benefits
would be to the cives involved. The question was originally raised by my
Assensus; why would people form an official local chapter, and be subject to
the associated bureaucracy and red tape, rather than just getting together
on an ongoing informal basis?

I must say, I'm still contemplating that question. Other than somewhat
artificial rewards such as century points (naturally, century points would
still be awarded for those undertaking positions of responsibility in local
groups, but that would either leave out those who were simply "members" with
no responsibility, or lead us to a position where local groups were made up
of all chiefs and no indians), why form an "official" local group, as
opposed to simply getting together informally?

In short, what can the Republic offer such people that organize themselves
into a group, that it cannot offer to people who do not?

I would be eager to hear what folks have to say on the subject.

> I feel the issue of taxation is a good one. We need to begin procuring
> monies for activities and various expenditures. It was asked, "Where
> would the treasury be?" What would people think of using the Forum for
> collecting taxes. Rather than sending those regional forum taxes in
> immediately, maintain a local vault of funds for the use of the Region.
> Then, when a call for taxes (at the end of February) occurs, the
> requisite amount can be sent in to the Imperial Treasury.

If you read the current agenda for the Senate, you will see that this
question is already being taken up. Under the current proposal, taxes would
be kept in the central treasury, but half would be allocated to be spent in
the originating province. We had experimented with the idea of provincial
treasuries recently, and it blew up in our faces when the monies were
illegally appropriated when the governor left. Because of that experience,
many of us are not inclined to further the experiment with provincial
treasuries.

> This might go
> a long ways to smoothing over animosity that might be created by
> immediately sending taxes to Nova Roma superior. It would show that we
> are interested in developing and supporting our local citizens.

I would hope that knowing that half of all revenues will only be spent in
the originating province would accomplish the same thing. That's why it was
included. :-)

> This is an idea not simply formed by me, but by others in this area
> interested in Nova Roma.

Could I ask where you are located? I didn't see your name listed in the
Album Civium.

> Two persons have expressed their interest in
> joining, but only if they now that there will be a local interest from
> the Senate, rather than the entire empire first. Remember we are here
> to rebuild. This requires appeasing new citizens, and creating a
> bright star for future citizens.

Of course we want to see growth on the local and provincial level, but as
with all things, such takes time, and the Senate must perforce take the
needs of the Republic as a whole into consideration when making policy.

I also disagree that rebuilding "requires appeasing new citizens". Listening
to the input and ideas of the citizens is one thing. Bowing and scraping to
every whim of someone just off the boat is quite another, and I believe
that's not what the majority want from their elected magistrates.

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

email: germanicus@--------
AIM: Flavius Vedius
www: http://mediatlantica.novaroma.org




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Rome - Byzantium
From:	QFabiusMaxmi@--------
Date:	Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:55:59 EDT

Salvete,
As a member of Dumbarton Oaks I love to talk about the Byzantines. My MA is
on their warfare.
However even though many of their historians call themselves New Rome and the
Byzantines themselves call themselves Romans, they are not.
Diocletianus Dominate spelt the end of the Rome in my opinion.

Offices were purchased, the Senate had no real power at all, becoming more a
training ground for legio officers since education was only given to the
rich, and the elite became more aristocratic. The original Roman Gods fell
by the wayside.

After the fall of the West, a Romo-Grecio-Persian hybrid rose in the East.
They spoke a latin/greek/persian/germanic patois. While the court language
remained
Latin, is was the Latin of the commoners, not classical.

Christianity was the religio and no other was tolerated. Any heresy was
stamped out bloodily. How Roman was that?
The games were stopped. Only chariot racing remained and that was
discontinued in the 900s.
The virtues disappeared. Greed and deception were treasured as great
attributes.
The military rather use stratagems to fight their battles, while this was
sensible, it would have
noble, honest classical Roman Generals turning over in their graves.

Byzantium was important. It helped preserve Roman culture and writings so we
can read about it to today. It acted as the block to keep Europe from being
overrun by barbaric invasions, allowing the embryonic cultures to develop,
and grow strong so when Byzantium
declined it was no longer needed. Russia, Serbia, Hungry all assumed
elements of their culture. It acted as a beacon of civilization that could
trace its roots to the classical times, but as Rome continued, no it was not.
My old Professor Fr. Wasko used to say the church carried on the Empire. I
used to laugh in his face and say no it did not. It helped destroy it.

Valete
Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] About Yahoogroups
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Tue, 17 Jul 2001 16:55:20 -0400

Salve,

Go back and check if your list preferences are set properly. If there is
still a problem I would check with your ISP to see if they are having any
network problems. Hope this helps, I wish you the best.


"Quamquam cupido sis delictum ab sui crebro suum mater ab vitualis"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia

Canada Orientalis Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/canorien

Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--

exitil@-------- at exitil@-------- wrote:

> For some reason none of my mailing lists are working - including ones I just
> created a few days ago using alternate screen names. Is this problem
> happening to anyone else, or does anyone know how to fix it? None of the
> mail is getting through to the people on the list, even though everything is
> set up right. Yahoo help doesnt have anything that helps...
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>




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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Finding !
From:	manius_constantinus_serapio@--------
Date:	Tue, 17 Jul 2001 20:21:29 -0000

AVETE

the official site of the excavations for the roman port in Pisa is:

www.navipisa.it

There are also the english and the french version.

VALETE MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO



--- In novaroma@--------, radams36@j... wrote:
> --- In novaroma@--------, manius_constantinus_serapio@h... wrote:
> > AVETE OMNES!
> >
> > I would like to inform you about a great finding!
> > In Pisa (Italy) a group of archeologists has found a roman
port!
> > All is very well-preserved. There are many objects, products,
food,
> > human remains and.... 16 ships! Three of them have been
recognized
> > as "onerariae" (commercial), and excavations are going on.
> > The excavations are visitable all saturdays for 3 years.
> > Far any information, please contact me.
> >
> > VALETE MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO
>
> Salvete, Mane!
>
> I would be very interested in knowing more - do you have a web link
> to share on this?
>
> Vale,
>
> R Palaeologus





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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Rome - Byzantium
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:03:55 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete omnes.

--- radams36@-------- wrote:
> --- In novaroma@--------, Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> wrote:
> > Salvete omnes; et salve, Palaeologe.
>
> Salwete, Gnae! (Hope I got that right!)

Well, yes; more or less. There are several schools of thought on that
issue ;-).

<<snipped>>

> > In my humble opinion, the
> > Byzantine Empire would be one of the two offsprings of the Roman
> > civilization. The other would be Western Christiandom, and the
> > various
> > Germanic-Roman kingdoms that took the place of the Roman Empire in
> > the
> > West.
>
> At what point do you make the 'cut-off'? Based on this statement, the
> crowning of Charlemagne may be a good point at which to make the
> Roman/Byzantine distinction. The Gothic kings of Italy still paid
> tribute to the Emperor in Byzantium and accepted the status of his
> vassals for quite some time, but with Charlemagne, there was a clear
> break from that. To me, that makes more sense than the conquest of
> Rome by Theodoric.

The crowning of Charlemagne as Roman Emperor was an important point in
history (although Charlemagne himself would have argued on that),
because it linked the new Germanic kingdoms with the ancient Roman
Empire on a theorical level. Since then, and for many years, the dream
of many European monarchs was to reestablish the Roman Empire (more or
less what we are trying to do here ;-) ).

However, there were already divisions between the East and the West
before that. For example, the Visigoths of Spain successfully drew the
Byzantines out of the Baetica in the 7th century.

<<snipped>>

> Thank you very much for your thoughtful, intelligent response, friend
> Gnaeus!

You are extremely welcome. And thank you for bringing such an
interesting topic into discussion.



=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Rome - Byzantium
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:10:54 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete omnes.

--- Gaius Marcius Coriolanus <coriolanus@--------> wrote:
> Salvete
>
> I see it other way than Gnaeus Salix. I like Byzantines but they were
>
> not children of Rome (by me). Rome had died when left their Gods.
> It's cruel but Constantine started new empire.

I see your point. However, the Christian church (both in the East and
in the West) drew heavily from Roman culture and even from Roman pagan
religion. You might consider it a different civilization, but it
certainly was an offspring of the Roman Empire. And remember that this
people called themselves "Romans".

> Gnaeus Salix wrote about two offsprings. In my opinion it was
> something absolutely different. Western and eastern christian empires
> had just few points common with old Roma. I mean the way like
> consuls, emperors or any other rulers tried to see their reign. In
> republic it was just a elected citizen. In early empire it was
> princeps, primus inter pares. When he was the first why not to be the
> God? But it was still roman view on gods. And late empires and
> especially Byzantium gave him new property. He was chosen by God to
> lead his people. The Christian view on God is much more different
> from Roman. Thats the thing that makes the greatest diference.

There was also much of "chosen of the Gods" in the Roman system. That
was why change was so slow in the Roman political system; its
structures were sacred.


=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] About Yahoogroups
From:	exitil@--------
Date:	Tue, 17 Jul 2001 18:00:32 EDT

In a message dated 7/17/01 4:05:13 PM Central Daylight Time, pkkt@--------
writes:

> Salve,
>
> Go back and check if your list preferences are set properly. If there is
> still a problem I would check with your ISP to see if they are having any
> network problems. Hope this helps, I wish you the best.

The settings are fine, and as for the ISP - my emails are getting to the
list, they're just not being sent out to the people on the list...




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Subject:	[novaroma] Question on item XIII of the Senate Agenda
From:	"Devry, Mark (Packaging House Auckland)" <mark.devry@-------->
Date:	Wed, 18 Jul 2001 11:26:58 +1200

Salvete Populi,

Forgive me if I am repeating a question that has already been asked and / or
answere, but I get the digest version at my work and thus must skim throught
them rather quickly sometimes.
I have a question regarding the below item on the Senate agenda.


] We, the Praefectus Castorum, Staff and Sodales of the Sodalitas
] Militarium hereby most humbly propose to expand the scope of functions
] within the Sodalitus Militarium to include:
]
] --Establishing The Militarium Review Board; a voluntary sanctioning body
] for military reenactment and living history organizations;

What would the purpose of this body be - is it to ensure groups reach a
certain historical accurateness / safety level / training level? Or to
ensure groups don't make false claims about their selves? How does this
interact with the policy of Nova Roma to ensure affiliated / sponsored
legionis have full self determination over their own activities / policies?

]
] --Establishing a Militarium Review Liaison Service charged with
] Recruitment, Review and Retention of sponsored Legios and related
] organizations and personnel.

Similar question as to above regarding "review", especially towards the
related organisation and personnel (does this mean legionis will be affected
by reviews of other groups and /or people that are not under the direct
authority of that group and / or Nova Roma?

Thanks to anyone who is able to help with answers to the above questions.

Marcus Sentius Accipiter






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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Question on item XIII of the Senate Agenda
From:	trog99@--------
Date:	Tue, 17 Jul 2001 23:51:23 -0000

---Salvete

In novaroma@--------, "Devr--------ark (Packaging House Auckland)"


Salve Marce Senti et alii:

I shall attempt to answer your questions regarding this item, as a
Legate of Sodalitas Militarium. My comments below:

<mark.devry@--------> wrote:
> Salvete Populi,
>
> Forgive me if I am repeating a question that has already been asked
and / or
> answere, but I get the digest version at my work and thus must skim
throught
> them rather quickly sometimes.
> I have a question regarding the below item on the Senate agenda.
>
>
> ] We, the Praefectus Castorum, Staff and Sodales of the Sodalitas
> ] Militarium hereby most humbly propose to expand the scope of
functions
> ] within the Sodalitus Militarium to include:
> ]
> ] --Establishing The Militarium Review Board; a voluntary
sanctioning body
> ] for military reenactment and living history organizations;
>
> What would the purpose of this body be - is it to ensure groups
reach a
> certain historical accurateness / safety level / training level? Or
to
> ensure groups don't make false claims about their selves?

Pompeia: Well, all of those things would fall within our purview, but
the over all purpose is to unite Roman Reeactors under the banner of
Nova Roma. We would like to serve as a central venue for reenactment
units. And yes, already Militarium has a determined level of
expectation of sponsored legios, and we make recommendations to the
Senate as to whether a legion merits being sponsored by NR. Actual
sponsorship is the ultimate determination of the Senate.

Sodalitas Militarium has written an application for Legion Sponsorship
(actually quite a while ago) which serves to determine the level of
seriousness and historical accuracy of the applicant. As one sodale
put it, we want to make sure the applying "legion" is not simply 4 or
5 guys who watched Gladiator, got drunk, and decided to call
themselves a legion (grin).

Sodalitas Militarium wishes to act as advisor, promoter, mentor, etc.
to those legions who in turn are willing to promote Nova Roma and
their legion events. This serves as an excellent outreach project for
Nova Roma.

I hope this clarifies things for you, and I hope you are keeping well,
Marce Senti......haven't heard from you in a bit.

Bene valete,
Pompeia Cornelia
Legata Navalis
Benefacarius Praefectum
Sodalitas Militarium
NOVA ROMA

How does
this
> interact with the policy of Nova Roma to ensure affiliated /
sponsored
> legionis have full self determination over their own activities /
policies?
>
> ]
> ] --Establishing a Militarium Review Liaison Service charged with
> ] Recruitment, Review and Retention of sponsored Legios and related
> ] organizations and personnel.
>
> Similar question as to above regarding "review", especially towards
the
> related organisation and personnel (does this mean legionis will be
affected
> by reviews of other groups and /or people that are not under the
direct
> authority of that group and / or Nova Roma?
>
> Thanks to anyone who is able to help with answers to the above
questions.
>
> Marcus Sentius Accipiter




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] About Yahoogroups &AOL
From:	asseri@--------
Date:	Tue, 17 Jul 2001 19:56:17 EDT

Salvete,
I have found most of the problem is AOL . What I did was make use of the
free e-mail address on Yahoo for the list that I was having the most problems
which for me is my local SCA. If the volume is heavy I do have probelms on
all my lists though.
I like Aol for many reasons but using Yahoo for a few things as been
very useful.

Drusila




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