Forum Romanum


Subject:	[novaroma] AMERICA AUSTRORIENTALIS EDICTUM NUMBER SEVEN
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Mon, 30 Jul 2001 20:22:33 -0700 (PDT)

AMERICA AUSTRORIENTALIS EDICTUM NUMBER SEVEN

APPOINTMENT OF SACERDOS PRIMUS

I, Lucius Sicinius Drusus, Propraetor America
Austrorientalis, issue the following Edictum to
appoint the Sacerdos Primus of America
Austrorientalis.

1. Helena Galeria Aureliana is appointed as Sacerdos
Primus of America Austrorientalis.

L. Sicinius Drusus,
Propraetor America Austrorientalis

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] The Comitia Centuriata is Convened
From:	Jeff Smith <JSmithCSA@-------->
Date:	Mon, 30 Jul 2001 23:33:17 -0700 (PDT)

Salve,

I have a question based on my experience as a rogator:

--- Flavius Vedius Germanicus
<germanicus@--------> wrote:

> V. Procedures for counting votes.
> A. Votes shall be counted by centuries.
>
> 1. In the case of a magisterial election, each
> century shall cast a
> number of votes equal to the number of vacancies for
> the magistracy in
> question. Votes shall be assigned to those
> candidates who received votes by
> members of the century, with those candidates
> receiving the most valid
> individual votes receiving the century's vote first,
> then working down in
> descending order until all the century's votes have
> been assigned.
>
> EXAMPLE: Four candidates are running for Consul.
> Each century casts two
> votes, because there are two vacant positions. In
> century III, there are 26
> votes for candidate A, 32 votes for candidate B, 2
> votes for candidate C,
> and 13 votes for candidate D. The century's two
> votes are cast for
> candidates A and B, since they received the two
> highest vote-totals within
> the century.

Since our centuries are fairly small, there will be a
situation where all members of a given century vote
for the same candidate.

Let us use your example, there are four candidates.
The three members of the century all vote for A. Does
A get four votes or one?

I'm also concerned about this with regards to the
low-numbered centuries, which may have just one
person. Will that person/century get four votes?

Regardless of the answer, I would like to see this
example reflected in the law, since it is far more
likely than the 73-person century in the other
example.

Dalmaticus

=====
JEFFREY C. SMITH
HQ USAREUR/7A
CMR 420, BOX 2839
APO AE 09063-2839

"Leadership is nature's way of removing morons from the productive flow." -Dilbert

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] The Comitia Centuriata is Convened
From:	Jeff Smith <JSmithCSA@-------->
Date:	Mon, 30 Jul 2001 23:44:58 -0700 (PDT)

Salve,

Next law, more questions.

Dalmaticus

--- Flavius Vedius Germanicus
<germanicus@--------> wrote:

> ITEM II: LEX VEDIA DE PRIVATUS REBUS
>
> The Lex Cornelia de Privatus Rebus is hereby amended
> to include the
> following:
>
> "Provincial governors, or their lawfully appointed
> assistants, may receive
> confidential information, but only relating to those
> citizens within their
> provincia, in accordance with the restrictions and
> procedures governing
> release of such information for magistrates.

I'm a little uncomfortable with this, since I don't
know who "lawfully appointed assistants" are.
Legates? Scribae? Secret police? A little facetious
here, but I'm thinking that some clarity might help,
or at least discussion on line that we can refer to
later to establish the intent of the people.

Requests for confidential information should always be
in writing, specify what is requested and why, and be
kept on record for a year or more.

I'd also like to see some discussion of what
constitutes "confidential information". Safeguards
should be established to ensure that what is requested
is actually needed and useful to the requesting party.

> "Individual citizens may, at their express request,
> allow confidential
> information of their choice to be made available
> and/or public, and may
> rescind such permission as they see fit."

The law should specify that this release must be
written or email,so as to leave a record. That record
should be on file for some period (probably a year or
more). The goal here should be to avoid confusion and
accusations. The law should also state that coercion
to release is illegal. These changes will protect
common folk and the magistrates.

Dalmaticus

=====
JEFFREY C. SMITH
HQ USAREUR/7A
CMR 420, BOX 2839
APO AE 09063-2839

"Leadership is nature's way of removing morons from the productive flow." -Dilbert

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Subject:	[novaroma] Australia Provincial Edicta number IV
From:	"Daniel Place" <danat2000@-------->
Date:	Tue, 31 Jul 2001 16:13:01 +0930

I, Marcus Arcadius Pius, Propraetor of Australia hereby announce the following edict establishing the capital cities of the Province and regio's, and the creation of the position of Sacerdos Primus.

i. The Provincial Capital of Australia is hereby named as being the city of Adelaide, in the Australia Medius Regio. Adelaide will also be the chief city of the Australia Medius Regio.
The city of Melbourne is named as being the chief city of the Australia Austrorientalis Regio.
The city of Perth is named as being the chief city of the Australia Occidentalis Regio.
The city of Sydney is named as being the chief city of the Australia Orientalis Superior Regio.

ii. The position of Sacerdos Primus is hereby created to oversee the practice of the Religio Romana in the Australia Province. The Sacerdos Primus is responsible for performing rites on behalf of the province and for public information on the Religio Romana in the province.

valete

Marcus Arcadius Pius
Propraetor Australia Province.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: The Comitia Centuriata is Convened
From:	gcassiusnerva@--------
Date:	Mon, 30 Jul 2001 23:13:51 -0000

> ITEM II: LEX VEDIA DE PRIVATUS REBUS
>
> The Lex Cornelia de Privatus Rebus is hereby amended to include the
> following:
>
> "Provincial governors, or their lawfully appointed assistants, may
receive
> confidential information, but only relating to those citizens
within their
> provincia, in accordance with the restrictions and procedures
governing
> release of such information for magistrates.
>
> "Individual citizens may, at their express request, allow
confidential
> information of their choice to be made available and/or public, and
may
> rescind such permission as they see fit."

Does this last paragraph mean citizens will have the right to prevent
their personal info to the Governors and Legates?

I am opposed to having ANY personal information released to anyone
other than the censors. There have been certain Governors and
Legates in the past whom I would NOT wish to have my personal
information had I lived in their provinces.

If the last paragrpah of this proposed law means we can opt out of
this, well and good. I do not now nor will I ever allow *my*
personal info to be released.

Nerva


Subject:	[novaroma] Ring
From:	Marcus Bianchius Antonius <imperialreign@-------->
Date:	Tue, 31 Jul 2001 03:44:40 -0700 (PDT)

Salve,

I was thinking about a ring. I have some friends (one
really) that is in the Masonic Order and he has a very
nice ring with their symbol etched into onyx.
Has anyone ever looked into a Nova Roma ring before?
Maybe a gold band with some sort of black or gold top
with our SPQR and laurel leaves etched in? Maybe a
stone to accent the image.

I have no idea how to implement such an idea, or even
the cost. My friend said his ring was about $400.00
US, but I would assume that price comes with
quanities.
Plus start up and design costs.

I am just throwing this out. It would be nice to have,
to wear at events and such. Not to mention a nice
conversation starter.

Thanks

Marcus Bianchius Antonius

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Ring
From:	Jeff Smith <JSmithCSA@-------->
Date:	Tue, 31 Jul 2001 04:33:31 -0700 (PDT)

Salve,

> I was thinking about a ring. I have some friends
> (one
> really) that is in the Masonic Order and he has a
> very
> nice ring with their symbol etched into onyx.
> Has anyone ever looked into a Nova Roma ring before?
> Maybe a gold band with some sort of black or gold
> top
> with our SPQR and laurel leaves etched in? Maybe a
> stone to accent the image.
>
> I have no idea how to implement such an idea, or
> even
> the cost. My friend said his ring was about $400.00
> US, but I would assume that price comes with
> quanities.
> Plus start up and design costs.
>
> I am just throwing this out. It would be nice to
> have,
> to wear at events and such. Not to mention a nice
> conversation starter.

Interesting idea, but may need to cost less to be a
big seller -- maybe nickel could be used, or another
less-expensive metal (not one that will turn my finger
green).

Dalmaticus

=====
JEFFREY C. SMITH
HQ USAREUR/7A
CMR 420, BOX 2839
APO AE 09063-2839

"Leadership is nature's way of removing morons from the productive flow." -Dilbert

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: The Comitia Centuriata is Convened
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Tue, 31 Jul 2001 12:27:51 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, gcassiusnerva@c... wrote:
>
> > ITEM II: LEX VEDIA DE PRIVATUS REBUS
> >
> > The Lex Cornelia de Privatus Rebus is hereby amended to include
the
> > following:
> >
> > "Provincial governors, or their lawfully appointed assistants,
may
> receive
> > confidential information, but only relating to those citizens
> within their
> > provincia, in accordance with the restrictions and procedures
> governing
> > release of such information for magistrates.
> >
> > "Individual citizens may, at their express request, allow
> confidential
> > information of their choice to be made available and/or public,
and
> may
> > rescind such permission as they see fit."
>
>
> Does this last paragraph mean citizens will have the right to
prevent
> their personal info to the Governors and Legates?
>
> I am opposed to having ANY personal information released to anyone
> other than the censors. There have been certain Governors and
> Legates in the past whom I would NOT wish to have my personal
> information had I lived in their provinces.
>
> If the last paragrpah of this proposed law means we can opt out of
> this, well and good. I do not now nor will I ever allow *my*
> personal info to be released.
>
> Nerva

Salvete Omnes,

The Governers need this information to do thier jobs. If Nova Roma
does not organize on the local levels it will be allmost impossible
for it to grow past being a bunch of mail lists. The Provinces and
the Municipia that need to be set up within the provinces are vital
to our future.

As the Provinces grow, the Governers will have to turn more and more
of the day to day details over to legates. When we have provinces
with hundreds of citizens each, the Governer will not be able to
handle everything by himself.

There may have been a former Governer who proved untrustworthy, but
who's to say that we won't have a similar problem with whomever is
elected Censor this year or next year?

Valete,
L. Sicinius Drusus
Propraetor America Austrorientalis


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: The Comitia Centuriata is Convened
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Tue, 31 Jul 2001 13:17:36 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@n...>
wrote:

SNIP
>
> ITEM II: LEX VEDIA DE PRIVATUS REBUS
>
> The Lex Cornelia de Privatus Rebus is hereby amended to include the
> following:
>
> "Provincial governors, or their lawfully appointed assistants, may
receive
> confidential information, but only relating to those citizens
within their
> provincia, in accordance with the restrictions and procedures
governing
> release of such information for magistrates.
>

Salve,
Does this section mean that the Legates can request information from
the Censors? There is a need for Governors to share information with
thier Legates, But any requests for the information should come
directly from the Governor.

Vale,
L. Sicinius Drusus
Propraetor America Austrorientalis


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Ring
From:	asseri@--------
Date:	Tue, 31 Jul 2001 09:19:04 EDT

Salve,
It is possilbe to find places that will make insigna rings for less. A
modern ring will be "too perfect" for my tastes anyway. I do know of atleast
one compay that might have a blank of quailty metal. Rio Grande (
http://riogrande.com/ ) usually has them. It is only a place to start but
this is a a very good idea.

Most "cheap"rings are nickle alloys and those are the one that turn
your fingers green. Beside quite a few people are allergic to it as well. So
anyone one have any ideas on this or know a gold or silver smith.

Drusila

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[novaroma] Australian Province Edict V
From:	"Daniel Place" <danat2000@-------->
Date:	Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:03:00 +0930

Ave,

I, Marcus Arcadius Pius Propraetor of Australia, hereby issue this edict regarding an appointment to the position of Sacerdos Primus of the Australian Province.

i. Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura is hereby appointed to the position of Sacerdos Primus for the Australian Province.

Gaius Sentius is also the Sacerdos Mars Invictus and will do honour to the position of Sacerdos Primus and the Religio Romana here in Australia.

Marcus Arcadius Pius
Propraetor Australia

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: The Comitia Centuriata is Convened
From:	PompeiaAntoniaCaesar <europamoon7@-------->
Date:	Tue, 31 Jul 2001 06:31:11 -0700 (PDT)

Avete,

I reluctantly agree with Drusus on this point.
Realistically if Nova Roma is to continue to grow more
will have to be handled on the local level. But I,
too am leery of having personal information sifted out
to random individuals and I use the word random here
since the change of hands may occur at any time and
often. Also if citizens can opt to prevent private
information from being released how then can the
governors do their job effectively if, as Drusus as
says, this is necessary for effective administration
of the provincia? It doesn't seem to make sense to me
to have an either or situation. This lex does not
seem to fully realize either situation.

Vale,

Pompeia Antonia Caesar

--- Lucius Sicinius Drusus <lsicinius@-------->
wrote:
> --- In novaroma@--------, gcassiusnerva@c... wrote:
> >
> > > ITEM II: LEX VEDIA DE PRIVATUS REBUS
> > >
> > > The Lex Cornelia de Privatus Rebus is hereby
> amended to include
> the
> > > following:
> > >
> > > "Provincial governors, or their lawfully
> appointed assistants,
> may
> > receive
> > > confidential information, but only relating to
> those citizens
> > within their
> > > provincia, in accordance with the restrictions
> and procedures
> > governing
> > > release of such information for magistrates.
> > >
> > > "Individual citizens may, at their express
> request, allow
> > confidential
> > > information of their choice to be made available
> and/or public,
> and
> > may
> > > rescind such permission as they see fit."
> >
> >
> > Does this last paragraph mean citizens will have
> the right to
> prevent
> > their personal info to the Governors and Legates?
> >
> > I am opposed to having ANY personal information
> released to anyone
> > other than the censors. There have been certain
> Governors and
> > Legates in the past whom I would NOT wish to have
> my personal
> > information had I lived in their provinces.
> >
> > If the last paragrpah of this proposed law means
> we can opt out of
> > this, well and good. I do not now nor will I ever
> allow *my*
> > personal info to be released.
> >
> > Nerva
>
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> The Governers need this information to do thier
> jobs. If Nova Roma
> does not organize on the local levels it will be
> allmost impossible
> for it to grow past being a bunch of mail lists. The
> Provinces and
> the Municipia that need to be set up within the
> provinces are vital
> to our future.
>
> As the Provinces grow, the Governers will have to
> turn more and more
> of the day to day details over to legates. When we
> have provinces
> with hundreds of citizens each, the Governer will
> not be able to
> handle everything by himself.
>
> There may have been a former Governer who proved
> untrustworthy, but
> who's to say that we won't have a similar problem
> with whomever is
> elected Censor this year or next year?
>
> Valete,
> L. Sicinius Drusus
> Propraetor America Austrorientalis
>
>

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Ring
From:	PompeiaAntoniaCaesar <europamoon7@-------->
Date:	Tue, 31 Jul 2001 06:33:45 -0700 (PDT)

--- asseri@-------- wrote:
> Salve,
> It is possilbe to find places that will make
> insigna rings for less. A
> modern ring will be "too perfect" for my tastes
> anyway. I do know of atleast
> one compay that might have a blank of quailty metal.
> Rio Grande (
> http://riogrande.com/ ) usually has them. It is only
> a place to start but
> this is a a very good idea.
>
> Most "cheap"rings are nickle alloys and those
> are the one that turn
> your fingers green. Beside quite a few people are
> allergic to it as well. So
> anyone one have any ideas on this or know a gold or
> silver smith.
>
> Drusila

Avete,

What about using copper?

Vale,

Pompeia Antonia Caesar
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: The Comitia Centuriata is Convened
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Tue, 31 Jul 2001 16:12:43 +0200

Salvete omnes,

(snipped)

Sulla scripsit:

> As Censor, let me comment on this revision. I believe that the Lex
> Cornelia de Privatus Rebus needs to be altered to give governors
> confidential information. However, I am very concerned in letting
> Legates petition and gain access to this information. I am concerned
> for the following reasons.
>
> 1. Legates are not appointed by the People NOR the Senate of Nova
> Roma. Their only check is a governor, and given that some legates
> might have a very active governor..or not an active governor this
> holds potential confidentiality issues.
>
> 2. Legates are not oath binding magistrates. They are not bound to
> anyone except the governor. This is a precarious situation, by
> relasing confidential information. We have already seen Oath Binding
> magistrates violate their oath without a second thought. I am very
> hesistant about releasing private and confidential information to
> individuals who might not in essence be accountable to anyone. I say
> this given the fact that some of our governors have disappeared after
> being appointed as governor.
>
> Once again, I state, that I believe that there needs to be revision
> in this. However, this proposed law goes way too far. Give the
> authority to the Governor. He/She has Imperium. Legates do not have
> Imperium.
>

But in some provinciae, governors aren't always present, or must delegate
tasks to their Legates because of practical reasons. I think knowing your
fellow citizens' e-mail address or phone number is hardly a dangerous thing.
I mean, the information in the citizenship application doesn't contain
really personal information (such as sexual preference, intimate questions,
personal histories, hobbies...).

And should the Legati really make a mistake (which I would like to hear a
possible example of), then a Propraetor can fire that person. Anyone who
abuses info (but I can't see why or what for) can be punished.

Nerva scripsit:

> Does this last paragraph mean citizens will have the right to prevent
> their personal info to the Governors and Legates?
>
> I am opposed to having ANY personal information released to anyone
> other than the censors. There have been certain Governors and
> Legates in the past whom I would NOT wish to have my personal
> information had I lived in their provinces.
>
> If the last paragrpah of this proposed law means we can opt out of
> this, well and good. I do not now nor will I ever allow *my*
> personal info to be released.

Why? Your personal dislike for a possible governor or their legates /
scribes is hardly a reason. I agree that cives should get the option not to
have their info releases if they don't want to be called or written
privately, but what are you so afraid of? Stalking governors, or getting
hatemail from scribes? We have something, and it's called the Lex Fabia
against stalking, which exactly established procedures to take measure
against such things.

In short, I like this proposed law. It really eases provincial work. In
multilingual provinces like Thule, Gallia or Pannonia, the governor doesn't
always speak every language spoken in his provincia, and if he wants to
contact those citizens, he has to to do it in English because he is not
allowed to give those email addresses to his legates. This would be quite
idiotic. While we heavily rely on English for our common communication, in
provincial communication, the mother language plays a pivotal role. To give
you an example: Gallia's governor is fluent in French, English and German,
but I usually make a third translation for him in Dutch, because he doesn't
speak that language. If he wants to bulk mail his citizens, he has to
contact Flemish and Dutch citizens either in English, or through my
translation. But if those citizens reply to him in Dutch, then what? That
would only complicate things. Thus, it'd be far easier to have me make the
translation and send it to the citizens of the region I am legate of.

I think Consul Vedius has done a good job, and deserves credit for it.

Valete bene,
Draco


Subject:	[novaroma] NOVA ROMA: Capita XVIII et XIX
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Tue, 31 Jul 2001 15:55:32 +0200

Salvete Quirites,

Here are chapters 18 and 19 of the NR Mars novel. If anyone would like to
have the previous chapters, contact me privately. Also, any remarks, ideas,
comments and criticism are welcome. Credits go to my paterfamilias, who was
responsible for spotting typographical and grammatical errors in my story.

XVIII. Omnes una manet nox
--------------------------------------

"So, what would you like to know?" Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator, the
bearded, impressive man asked, at the head of the surrealistic table in this
room, which shone with a gentle yellow shine. The soldiers looked at one
another. Draco felt very dirty, sitting here in this clean room, with a
bunch of rogue soldiers. While they had been only two days away from the
comfort of a home or a ship - and a relative comfort, since the army wasn't
exactly the most comfortable place you could imagine. On the other hand, it
could have been worse. He avoided thinking about the fate that had struck
Curio, and involuntarily shook his head.
Peregrinus finally spoke. Venator and the others looked at him with interest
and curiosity.
"Who is responsible for the politicial murders on Mars?"
He might just as well have dropped a bomb.
Venator placed his hands together and looked upwards for a second, as if
checking what he was going to say, and then spoke, slowly and carefully
choosing his words.
"An easy answer would be: Earth."
The soldiers held their breath. Draco, who had at first felt himself small
in the company of renowned officers as a simple soldier, now also saw that
these men knew in fact as little as he did, save for the nature of their
mission. He wondered how Audens would have reacted to this news. He probably
would have leaned back with a frown and listened, his presence still filling
the room, despite the fact that he would be saying nothing.
After this initial shock, Venator continued.
"It is more complex than that. The Earth's government has long had plans to
invade Mars. Earth itself suffers from overpopulation, and is still unable
to wipe out its environmental past. Attempts at colonizing Venus and the
Moon are going very slowly, and are really draining their funds. They see
the occupation of Mars as the Spaniards saw the reconquista in the
renaissance. However, they had three problems to overcome. The first one was
the Roman terraformation project. Knowing that we had superior agricultural
techniques, and were about to apply them to our home planet, they wanted to
wait until it developed. Once Mars would be a more hospitable world, they
would invade."
"I'm sorry to interrupt, but is this the reason why you attacked the
terraformation bases?" Oppius wanted to know.
"Of course," Venator replied, "but that alone wasn't enough to prevent Earth
from going on. In any case, they had two other problems that I haven't
explained yet. The second problem they faced was the relative strength and
cohesion of Mars as a cultural and social entity. Whereas Earth evolved from
a tricky confederation, the Roman Republic was an example of concord and
unity. The third problem were the Arg, an alien race."
The leader of the Martianalists paused for a while. Many frowned. Draco
could see the dramatic spectacle unfolding; Nova Roma, surrounded by
terraformed gardens, being invaded by a multitude of ships, with the shade
of alien cruisers looming over the marble city.
"Aliens?" muttered Peregrinus.
"Yes," Venator said, deadly serious, "aliens. The Arg are an ancient race,
now in decline. One of their older colonies was Mars, which became appearent
when such traces were first thoroughly searched for by our ancestors, a
small community that devoted itself to the worship of Mars in solitude. They
were once technically and culturally superior to us, but those days are
gone. Some other force that we don't know about has pushed them back into
what once were the outer regions of their empire. They cannot afford a
direct attack on Earth, and have therefore struck a deal with it to help
them in conquering Mars. Some of the Arg agents are active here, and roam
the deserts. Many of their actions were blamed on Martianalists."
"So what you're trying to say is that an alien race shot us from the sky?"
Oppius asked, his voice sounding sceptical. Venator nodded.
"That's right."
"I can't believe this," Oppius retorted, "this is a very improbable
scenario. How come Earth knows the Arg exist, and we don't? And did they
kill Cassius?"
The enigmatic leader rubbed his hand through his beard and peered at the
soldiers in front of him. Draco felt an uncomfortable yet strong force going
out from those eyes.
"Viri, I know it is hard for you to accept this, but it is the truth as I
know it."
Sertorius looked totally baffled. Oppius seemed downright upset, while
Marius leaned back in his chair with a frown, his arms folded across his
chest. There was one question that hadn't been answered clearly, and Draco
felt compelled to ask.
"Permission to speak, sir."
Oppius gave him a puzzled look.
"Very well."
"Who did really kill Cassius and so many others?" Draco asked.
"These murders were mainly plotted and executed by a former Roman citizen,
Gaius Lupinius Festus. As some of the senior officers in the army will know,
he was an extraordinary soldier with a great influence. However, a short
decade back, it appeared that he had been selling weapons to gladiator
schools --weapons that could actually kill. For that, plus a few other
accusations shot at him by his opponents, he was exiled from Mars. Earth
then enlisted him to do their bidding, in exchange for a lot of money. The
trick was to destablize the Roman government, the pounding heart of the
republic, to make it so that the military would not have enough time to
react to an invasion from Earth and the Arg."
"I'm not surprised by hearing the name Festus," Peregrinus said, anger
sounding through in his voice, mixed with disappointment. Oppius, who came
from Phobos, didn't know him. Sertorius might, but didn't say anything.
Draco had heard the name a couple of times, and it appeared the man had
written a few satires too, some of which were not bad at all.
"Two of my best men, Maximius and Quintilianus, tried to hunt him down, but
he eluded them each time. Besides, he probably doesn't know what he is being
used for exactly," Venator added, as if he was trying to console Peregrinus.
"However," he then said, "Earth's invasion is iminent, and the Arg are
growing more brutal every day. The same night awaits all of us. That's why
you were invited here."
"Excuse me, but I'm not so convinced yet that these Arg exist. Do you have
any proof of their existence?" Oppius asked.
For the first time since they arrived here, which seemed like days but was
in fact nothing more than a few hours, Venator laughed. He looked rather
funny when he was laughing, in a way you wouldn't expect for a reclusive
leader of a community of hermits.
"You are sitting in it. This room was probably a part of a former Arg villa.
Experts say it was something like the dining room, or the bedroom."
The soldiers let their eyes wander across the pastel tinted room. Now that
he mentioned it, the room indeed had something alien to it, Draco thought,
although it could be a trick of the moment, since many Martianalists were
appearently psychics of some sort. But on the other hand, they could have
killed them a million times, so why would he not believe them?
Venator suddenly rose from his chair, and a young woman, about the age of
Draco, who looked strangely sensual, entered the room, appearently from
nowhere.
"Domini, this is Tarquinia. She will show you to your quarters. At nine we
are going to hold a commemorative ceremony to your friends who died. If you
would like to attend to it, you are welcome to do so. Every room has a plan
of the cave system, so you shouldn't get lost. You might meet our other
guest as well. Tomorrow, after breakfast, I will see you again."
He bowed gracefully, and simply fizzled into thin air. Before the soldiers
could even express their amazement, their stream of confused thoughts was
interrupted by Tarquinia.
"Follow me please."

Later on the night, Draco and the rest attended to the ceremony, now dressed
in the simple garb all Martianalists wore. There was a cone-shaped
artificial cave, with, in the middle, a gigantic, shimmering white statue of
Mars, with a digital model of the planet slowly describing orbits around it.
Phobos and Deimos formed his eyes. Around the statue, at its feet, were a
few arae, but only one was manned with a pontifex. The other people sat
around the statue, the largest concentration facing the pontifex. Torches
lit the cave.
Some corpses of the soldiers were found, others weren't. They lay there
peacefully, with their faces represented on stakes by wooden masks, while
women, going around the enormous statue, which Draco reckoned was about
forty feet tall, cried and chanted the names of the deceased. Each time
Draco heard Curio's name, his heart skipped a beat, and the memory of
leaving him dying in the southern, crusty deserts of Mars recurred in
flashes. The tables on which the corpses lay were the only mechanical
thingsin the cave, and would soon ride themselves into the cavities along
the walls of the cave, where most cremated Martianalist soldiers were
buried. The features of the dead soldiers' faces were barely visible from
this distance; the only one recognisible from this distance was the bearded,
proud head of Audens.
The chants grew louder, and the pontifex at the altar offered incense to the
gods of the underworld, and made prayers to Ceres, and the Manes and Lares
of the dead soldiers. In a way, the exaggerated mourning cries of the women
canalized Draco's pain, too, and when a minor priest lit the bodies, it felt
as though a block was dropped from his shoulders. Bicurratus, Audens,
Lutecio and Curio were gone. He didn't believe in the classical religious
definition of the underworld, as a physical realm with Styx and all, but
rather thought it to be a return to the earth, or in this case, planet, that
took back what was rightfully hers.
A silence fell, only interrupted by the sounds of the burning fire, and the
play of shadows against the brown-red walls of this conic cave. The sitting
figures, which seemed like small goblins under the robust protection of the
Mars statue, quietly prayed, or looked down. Draco, on the other hand,
looked up to the ceiling of the cave, and wished that he could see the
stars.

XIX. Tempora quid faciunt
----------------------------------

Iasonus Serenus Carolus Peregrinus familiae salutem plurimam dicit.

Although it is a common and clich� question to ask you, I would like to know
how all of you are doing in the safe valleys of Xanthe Terra, under the
shadow of the majestic Tharsis Plateau, and most important of all, under the
distant sun, which is still shining there, despite the start of the
hurricane season. The winds have already started their everlasting campaign
to transport themselves through the Planum Borealis, and the Augures have
seem multiple ill omens in them - something I, a mere student of religion
and philosophy, am seeing too, all to clearly, albeit for different reasons.

I'm writing this message to you from a monotrain, heading towards Olympus
Mons, and coming from Nova Roma. I urge you to join me there in Olympus
Mons, for reasons I will be explaining shortly hereafter. It's hard to take
my eyes off such beautiful, naturally untouched scenery that is sliding by
my window. Some visitors to Mars will see nothing but rusty deserts, a few
oddly shaped rocks and a different sky, harbouring a somewhat strange human
colony. But I see something different: I see a divine beauty unfolding
itself for those who wish to see it. To live alone is a gift from the gods,
and to see so many things so much greater than you is almost godlike.
Thinking like this, it's not hard to see why the Martianalists view Mars as
an emanation of the god of war and peace. The ancient games of the dead
volcanoes, basaltic plateaus and rocky valleys with the winds, or the dried
river banks and glittering poles, yearning for the sun to touch them, and
make them live. These are things that go beyond man itself.

Yet, it grieves me much to say that this simple magnificence is being
ignored lately. In a previous letter to you, I told about the rather
discomforting number of political murders. First, one of the two good
Consules, Cassius, was poisoned. His death was still fresh in the memories
of the Roman people when Piscinus, the passionate Tribunus, was viciously
attacked and murdered in a park not very far from the building where the
Senate was holding a meeting. Some say it's irony, others say it's hubris.
Whatever the case may be, more violent and shocking deaths followed soon.
One of the two Praetores, the exuberant Maximus, was electrocuted while
bathing. Three of the gens Moravia an influential plebeian gens, still
mourning for the loss of their gensmate Piscinus, died in a plane explosion
above the northern plains, when there was no one around to help them or spot
the killer. In a similar manner, gens Marcia was incinerated when their
villa went up in flames, and while Vado and Maximus were being buried, in an
atmosphere of paranoia, stupor and deep depression, another senator, the
elder wise man, Ericius, was shot while taking a rest in his garden.
Eventually, through anonymous tips, a suspect was arrested, and the murders
stopped. This is about what everyone knows on Mars.

A few days however, information from the Praetor's headquarters leaked into
the Urbs. The arrested suspect, one Festus, claimed that he had carried out
those murders at the behest of Consul Vedius, right now, along with the
Censores, the most powerful man on Mars. Despite the obvious absurdity of
this information, the clumsy reaction of the government lead to the rise of
a few demagogues, who incited the people to rioting and vandalism. Things
got even uglier when Vedius, in a crisis situation, let loose a few squads
of his security guard in the city. Some died, and the Capitonline became
inaccessible to the public. While the riots had started as individual
initatives under the influence of some demagogues, the whole city populace
grew even more disgruntled, especially when a new measure was taken, which
prevented them from leaving the city. Amici et cari, I am telling you, it
was hallicunatory - smashed windows, garbage everywhere, roaming gangs of
rioters that could rob you, or patrols of praetorian officers, which were no
better.

Eventually, Consul Vedius decided to play his last card, and resigned from
his position. A rather hasty election, in an atmosphere of betrayal, poison
and treachery, appointed Octavius, a hard-working Senator, and Australicus,
a upstanding man with good common sense, as the new Consules. The city gates
were opened again. Tensions, however, remained. Previous satirics turned
bitterly on the Roman government, and panic raged totally out of control
when Earth declared war on Mars yesterday. I don't understand. How can our
own brothers, and ancestors, declare war upon their neighbour? At that
moment, I knew that staying in the Urbs would be like camping on the flank
of an active volcano, so I decided to move out. While it racked me with
guilt, and I am certain that you will not like this decision, I have quit my
job at the spaceport, but I sincerely hope that you'll understand I'm doing
this not only to save myself, but to save all of you.
Things are looking grim. Very grim.

However, on my way out, I noticed a remarkable speech. Next to the Forum
Romanum, on the Forum Martiale, one of the two Censores, and also a priest
of Mars, Cincinnatus, spoke to a crowd of generally quiet people, and on
television. It was a speech that touched the very core of the people's
being. For a while, everyone remembered what it meant to be a Roman, and we
seemed to realize that despite the political crisis, and the declaration of
war by Earth, we needed to act with responsibility and dignity. A lot of
bold souls, some of whom had previously been destroying the city, joined the
army at his call. Others sought refuge in temples, or made themselves
invaluable in voluntary cleaning work, since the riots had left most
important streets, fora and avenues filled with debris. And then, there were
people like me, who made their way out of the city. I'm almost certain that
Nova Roma will be attacked first, and is a lost battle already. I have a few
friends who work at the military section of the spaceport, and they are
saying the same. While I believe in the strength of the people in defending
their own city - and their homes - they will not be a match for
well-trained, and well- armed Earth soldiers. That is why I am travelling to
Olympus Mons, the military capital of our dusty planet. Hiding under the
wings of the Aquila, or under the soft belly of the Lupa, may be considered
cowardly, but it is the most reasonable chance of survival. When a lion is
attacking a wolf, the wolf's young stay behind their mother, not in front of
her.

In closing, I wish you all the very best, and I hope to be seeing you as
soon as possible in Olympus Mons. With a vision of an unforgettably
beautiful, while at the same time gloomy, sunset, I will not detain your
attention further.

Si vales, valeo.
Pater

"Jeder f�r sich, und Gott gegen allen."
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Woolwine <alexious@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 1:51 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: The Comitia Centuriata is Convened

>
> > -----
> >
> > ITEM II: LEX VEDIA DE PRIVATUS REBUS
> >
> > The Lex Cornelia de Privatus Rebus is hereby amended to include the
> > following:
> >
> > "Provincial governors, or their lawfully appointed assistants, may
> receive
> > confidential information, but only relating to those citizens
> within their
> > provincia, in accordance with the restrictions and procedures
> governing
> > release of such information for magistrates.
> >
> > "Individual citizens may, at their express request, allow
> confidential
> > information of their choice to be made available and/or public, and
> may
> > rescind such permission as they see fit."
>
> Ave,
>
> As Censor, let me comment on this revision. I believe that the Lex
> Cornelia de Privatus Rebus needs to be altered to give governors
> confidential information. However, I am very concerned in letting
> Legates petition and gain access to this information. I am concerned
> for the following reasons.
>
> 1. Legates are not appointed by the People NOR the Senate of Nova
> Roma. Their only check is a governor, and given that some legates
> might have a very active governor..or not an active governor this
> holds potential confidentiality issues.
>
> 2. Legates are not oath binding magistrates. They are not bound to
> anyone except the governor. This is a precarious situation, by
> relasing confidential information. We have already seen Oath Binding
> magistrates violate their oath without a second thought. I am very
> hesistant about releasing private and confidential information to
> individuals who might not in essence be accountable to anyone. I say
> this given the fact that some of our governors have disappeared after
> being appointed as governor.
>
> Once again, I state, that I believe that there needs to be revision
> in this. However, this proposed law goes way too far. Give the
> authority to the Governor. He/She has Imperium. Legates do not have
> Imperium.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> Censor of Nova Roma
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Ring
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Craig=20Stevenson?= <gaiussentius@-------->
Date:	Wed, 1 Aug 2001 01:05:59 +1000 (EST)

Salvete omnes,

I used to have a brilliant ring. It was a band of
white gold with a band of normal gold on either side
shaped like laurel wraiths. On the inside band the
letters SPQR were engraved, with little pieces of jet
inserted in between the letters. It was really
brilliant (until it fell apart and we took the maker
to court for shoddy work).

I for one would love to get a ring. Obviously making
them like the one I had would DEFINATELY NOT be
feasible (we can dream, can't we?:-) ).

If anyone knows how this might be achieved, it would
be great. Who knows, perhaps we could even have
specific rings created for senators, as was done in
old Rome.

Valete bene omnes,

Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura

--- PompeiaAntoniaCaesar <europamoon7@-------->
wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
 
--- asseri@-------- wrote: 
> Salve, 
> It is
possilbe to find places that will make 
> insigna rings for less. A 
> modern ring will be "too perfect" for
my tastes 
> anyway. I do know of atleast 
> one compay that might have a blank of quailty
metal. 
> Rio Grande ( 
> <a
href="http://riogrande.com/">http://riogrande.com/</a>
) usually has them. It is only 
> a place to start but 
> this is a a very good idea. 
> 
> Most
"cheap"rings are nickle alloys and those 
> are the one that turn 
> your fingers green. Beside quite a few people
are 
> allergic to it as well. So 
> anyone one have any ideas on this or know a gold
or 
> silver smith. 
> 
> Drusila 
 
 
Avete, 
 
What about using copper? 
 
Vale, 
 
Pompeia Antonia Caesar 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been 
> removed] 
> 
> 
 
 
__________________________________________________ 
Do You Yahoo!? 
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute
with Yahoo! Messenger 
<a
href="http://phonecard.yahoo.com/">http://phonecard.yahoo.com/</a> 
</tt>

 



<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
<td align=center><font size="-1"


Subject:	[novaroma] Oath of Office
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Craig=20Stevenson?= <gaiussentius@-------->
Date:	Wed, 1 Aug 2001 01:12:10 +1000 (EST)

Salvete all,

'I, Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura (Craig Stevenson) do
hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honor of Nova
Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the
people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Gaius Sentius
Bruttius Sura (Craig Stevenson) swear to honor the
Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and
to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private
life.

I, Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura (Craig Stevenson) swear
to uphold and defend the Religio Romana as the State
Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a way
that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura (Craig Stevenson) swear
to protect and defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura (Craig Stevenson)
further swear to fulfill the obligations and
responsibilities of the office of Sacerdos Primus of
Australia Provincia to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the
presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people
and by their will and favor, do I accept the
position of Sacerdos Primus Australia and all the
rights, privileges, obligations, and responsibilities
attendant thereto.'

_____________________________________________________________________________
http://messenger.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger
- Voice chat, mail alerts, stock quotes and favourite news and lots more!


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Oath of Office
From:	"Teleri ferch Nyfain" <rckovak@-------->
Date:	Tue, 31 Jul 2001 11:38:26 -0400

Subject: Oath of Office

I, Helena Galeria Aureliana (Cheri Henderson Kovak) do hereby solemnly
swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best
interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Helena Galeria Aureliana (Cheri Henderson
Kovak)
swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public
dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private
life.

I, Helena Galeria Aureliana (Cheri Henderson Kovak) swear to uphold and
defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and
swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the
State Religion.

I, Helena Galeria Aureliana (Cheri Henderson Kovak) swear to protect and
defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Helena Galeria Aureliana (Cheri Henderson Kovak) further swear to
fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the office of
Sacerdos Primus of America Austrorientalis to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the
Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor,
do I accept the position of Sacerdos Primus of America Austrorientalis and
all the rights,
privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.

Helena Galeria Aureliana


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] NOVA ROMA: Capita XVIII et XIX
From:	Steven - Piparskeggr <catamount_grange@-------->
Date:	Tue, 31 Jul 2001 13:58:00 -0500

Salus et fortuna Draco!

"S. Apollonius Draco" wrote:
>
> Salvete Quirites,
>
> Here are chapters 18 and 19 of the NR Mars novel.
> (excision)
>

I wanted to hold comment until I saw how the character develped from the
first mention.

I am coming to like this Venator quite well.
Very nicely done, nicely done indeed.

Perhaps when you are finished, the chapters could be assembled into an
e-book available through the Macellum.

mea sententia

--
=========================================
In Amicus sub Fidelis
- Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
Cives et Paterfamilias
Qu�stor, Legate et Dominus Sodalis
Domus Familias
http://www.geocities.com/gens_ulleria/index.html
File of my Poems and Songs
http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/Pip_music/files/
The Sodalis pro Coqueror et Coquus
http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/
Quid quid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound.)


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Ring
From:	margali <margali@-------->
Date:	Tue, 31 Jul 2001 14:41:43 -0400

I just bought a 'frame' for one of my new NR coins that wraps
around the coin and has a loop to run a necklace chain through [I
picked it up through a coin dealer in a flea market this weekend,
no packaging so I don't know a brand name] I plan on wearing mine
as a medallion.
margali
--
~~~~~
The Quote Starts Here:
Quoth Marcus Bianchius Antonius
> Has anyone ever looked into a Nova Roma ring before?
> Maybe a gold band with some sort of black or gold top
> with our SPQR and laurel leaves etched in? Maybe a
> stone to accent the image.
>
> I have no idea how to implement such an idea, or even
> the cost. My friend said his ring was about $400.00
> US, but I would assume that price comes with
> quanities.
> Plus start up and design costs.
>
> I am just throwing this out. It would be nice to have,
> to wear at events and such. Not to mention a nice
> conversation starter.


Subject:	[novaroma] On the change to the Lex Cornelia de Privatus Rebus
From:	QFabiusMaxmi@--------
Date:	Tue, 31 Jul 2001 15:05:00 EDT

Salvete

As the person most pushing for this change, I have to say one thing.
When is a person's privacy paramount in a state that they voluntarily joined?
Because that becomes the over riding issue here. Are we an Internet
organization or
are we are trying to become more of a real nation? If we are an Internet
organization then Pompeia and Cassius are correct, certain information really
is not needed. However, and I use however, if we are on our to becoming a
real nation and this I believe we are, one that must have meetings of the
populace, collect dues, give out information, so we are going to need
addresses of the populace.

The old lex was for an Internet organization of 250 souls. This revision is
for a growing population of 900+.
Citizens of Rome, how are the Provincial Praetors going to do their jobs if
they are denied the addresses of their provincial populace? And what about
these multi-lingual provinces that some Praetors have to administer? Unless
the Praetors are bi or tri lingual, they are going to have to assistants,
Legatii, that do. The Senate appoints the Praetor, they assume that these
are responsible adults, who understand the meaning of privacy. The Senate
also assumes that the
Praetor will show good judgment in appointing legatii.

Now we have to examine what information the Provincial administrators,
because that they are, are going to receive to allow adminstership.
Mailing Addresses and phone numbers. That's all. We do not need to know
anything else.
We are not going to have large dossiers on citizens like Cassius Nerva
alludes to, and even if we wanted harass personal enemies as several contend,
my Lex Fabia makes it illegal to do so.

So while more people might know how to mail you, citizens, a letter, it is
the for the good of Rome and it is needed if we are to take the next step in
organizing the provinces.
Thank you for listening.

Valete
Q Fabius Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Oath of Office
From:	QFabiusMaxmi@--------
Date:	Tue, 31 Jul 2001 15:06:43 EDT

Salve!

Congratulations! I know you will do a fine job.

Vale!

Q. Fabius Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: The Comitia Centuriata is Convened
From:	margali <margali@-------->
Date:	Tue, 31 Jul 2001 14:39:06 -0400

Well, I for one have many years of experience outwitting a
particular stalker, and I don't mind my town and state being made
known to the 'Powers That Be', but I would prefer to keep at
least my street address confidential - everything is in my
husband's name [we do not share the same last name] and I don't
mind my email address being public, but I would really prefer
that nobody knows my telephone number [unless they e-mail me and
specifically ask for it.]

I can see a need for email, town and state - but for the most
part, I don't see a need for the street address [unless
subscribing to a newsletter] or a phone number [unless you happen
to hold an office]
margali
Hyapatia Asinia Margali
[and for the curious, we still have the synthesized digital voice
on the answering machine, and screen all incoming calls and I
refuse to answer the door unless either the stranger is
accompanied by a friend [and they have called ahead] or I am
expecting a package from UPS, USPS or FedEx.]
~~~~~
The Quote Starts Here:
Quoth Pompeia Antonia Caesar
> But I,
> too am leery of having personal information sifted out
> to random individuals and I use the word random here
> since the change of hands may occur at any time and
> often. Also if citizens can opt to prevent private
> information from being released how then can the
> governors do their job effectively if, as Drusus as
> says, this is necessary for effective administration
> of the provincia? It doesn't seem to make sense to me
> to have an either or situation. This lex does not
> seem to fully realize either situation.


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: The Comitia Centuriata is Convened
From:	Erik van der Heijden <e.vd.heijden@-------->
Date:	Tue, 31 Jul 2001 15:25:03 +0200

Salvete Omnes!

As a concerned citizen I can only say: Hear hear hear! A
very sensible comment made by Nerva.

Marcellus Decianus Batavius

gcassiusnerva@-------- schreef:

>
> > ITEM II: LEX VEDIA DE PRIVATUS REBUS
> >
> > The Lex Cornelia de Privatus Rebus is hereby amended to
> include the
> > following:
> >
> > "Provincial governors, or their lawfully appointed
> assistants, may
> receive
> > confidential information, but only relating to those
> citizens
> within their
> > provincia, in accordance with the restrictions and
> procedures
> governing
> > release of such information for magistrates.
> >
> > "Individual citizens may, at their express request,
> allow
> confidential
> > information of their choice to be made available and/or
> public, and
> may
> > rescind such permission as they see fit."
>
>
> Does this last paragraph mean citizens will have the right
> to prevent
> their personal info to the Governors and Legates?
>
> I am opposed to having ANY personal information released
> to anyone
> other than the censors. There have been certain Governors
> and
> Legates in the past whom I would NOT wish to have my
> personal
> information had I lived in their provinces.
>
> If the last paragrpah of this proposed law means we can
> opt out of
> this, well and good. I do not now nor will I ever allow
> *my*
> personal info to be released.
>
> Nerva
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
> of Service.
>
>
> ******************************************************************************
>
> Dit bericht is gecontroleerd op virussen en virusvrij
> verzonden.
>
>
> ******************************************************************************

*****************************************************************************************************************************************************

De disclaimer van e-mail van de gemeente Eindhoven vindt u op http://www.eindhoven.nl/disclaimer.htm

Dit bericht is gecontroleerd op virussen en virusvrij verzonden.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Ring
From:	Lnzimissu@--------
Date:	Tue, 31 Jul 2001 15:11:11 EDT

Salve!
That sounds like a good idea! Could you describe what it looks like so
mabye I can make one of my own? Or if you run into the vendor again where you
got your necklace, mabye ask him where he bought his? Thanks
Vale,
Carolus Octavius Maximinius

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Ring
From:	mark zona <pitdog2002@-------->
Date:	Tue, 31 Jul 2001 08:35:58 -0700 (PDT)

I have a ring which belonged to my grandfather. It is
very old and my grandfather passed it on to me when he
died. It is of a heavy metal though i do not know of
what type and of simple design. It is flattened on the
top and ROMA is etched into the flat of the ring.
Unfortunately i do not know the history of the ring,
and whether it truely is a relic of the Roman Empire
or just a very old ring owned by a family proud to be
Roman.

But if there is interest, i will photograph it and
scan it in my computer. Perhaps an expert could tell
me where this ring really came from. And if it is
believed to be of the era of the Roman Empire, then
perhaps this could serve as a model for our ring?

Salve!

Marcus Antonius Zeno

--- Marcus Bianchius Antonius
<imperialreign@--------> wrote:
> Salve,
>
>
> I was thinking about a ring. I have some friends
> (one
> really) that is in the Masonic Order and he has a
> very
> nice ring with their symbol etched into onyx.
> Has anyone ever looked into a Nova Roma ring before?
> Maybe a gold band with some sort of black or gold
> top
> with our SPQR and laurel leaves etched in? Maybe a
> stone to accent the image.
>
> I have no idea how to implement such an idea, or
> even
> the cost. My friend said his ring was about $400.00
> US, but I would assume that price comes with
> quanities.
> Plus start up and design costs.
>
> I am just throwing this out. It would be nice to
> have,
> to wear at events and such. Not to mention a nice
> conversation starter.
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Marcus Bianchius Antonius
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute
> with Yahoo! Messenger
> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/


Subject:	[novaroma] Lex Cornelia de Privatus Rebus
From:	"Domna Claudia Auspicata" <comptess@-------->
Date:	Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:20:38 +1200

Salvete Quirites

In regards to the Lex Cornelia de Privatus Rebus and its proposed ammendment I offer some information that may be of interest regarding privacy issues. I believe New Zealand is one of the few countries (the trend is growing though) to have 'strict' laws protecting the citizens, if they release private information, from dangers and other annoying things like having your address, etc released to 50 insurance companies. I have only taken a tiny snippet from the NZ Privacy Act 1993. Perhaps this may be useful.

Valete
Domna Claudia Auspicata
NR Civis

http://www.knowledge-basket.co.nz/privacy/legislation/legislation.html
Privacy Act 1993
II: Information Privacy Principles.
Section 6. Information privacy principles

PRINCIPLE 1

Purpose of collection of personal information
Personal information shall not be collected by any agency unless---
(a) The information is collected for a lawful purpose connected with a
function or activity of the agency; and
(b) The collection of the information is necessary for that purpose.

PRINCIPLE 11

Limits on disclosure of personal information

An agency that holds personal information shall not disclose the
information to a person or body or agency unless the agency believes, on
reasonable grounds,---
(a) That the disclosure of the information is one of the purposes in
connection with which the information was obtained or is
directly related to the purposes in connection with which the
information was obtained;

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Re: The Comitia Centuriata is Convened
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 31 Jul 2001 16:41:40 -0400

Salvete

> gcassiusnerva@-------- wrote:
>
> I am opposed to having ANY personal information released to anyone
> other than the censors.

I hate to be the bearer of what are (to you) bad tidings, but the law as
currently written already allows this. All the proposed amendment does is
explicitly name the governors and their appointees as individuals who can
receive this information, which is already implicit in the existing law
(i.e., it's merely a clarification, not a new initiative.)

> If the last paragrpah of this proposed law means we can opt out of
> this, well and good.

Actually, it means exactly the reverse. Someone here had mentioned that they
in fact _wanted_ their email address to be made publically available, so as
to make themselves more accessible to the Nova Roman community. That last
paragraph would allow this, as our good Curator Araneum stated he would not
be able to do so under the law as it currently stands.

>I do not now nor will I ever allow *my*
> personal info to be released.

Again, I hate to be the bearer of (to you) bad news, but it already can be.
This amendment wouldn't change that at all. It is simply necessary for
provincial governors to be able to contact the cives in their provinces. I
realize that for someone with your prediliction for mind games, "ghost"
personas, and aliases, that might pose a problem (sending a letter to a
supposed Citizen and getting a reply back from a pizzaria might be a tip-off
that something not-quite-right with that Citizen!). However, our laws are
not designed to accomodate you in such activities.

Our elected magistrates and provincial governors have always, to my
knowledge, used their access to Citizens' personal information responsibly
and in furtherance of their official duties. Indeed, as several people have
already pointed out, it is necessary for the completion of those duties and
the growth and prosperity of the Republic. If you think that some have
behaved differently, then I suggest you put forth a formal accusation of
improper conduct. Otherwise, I submit that the personal information of our
cives is sufficiently safeguarded; official use is certainly not abuse, and
your personal problems with one or two governors is not reason enough to
deny all governors (or all magistrates!) the information necessary to carry
out their duties.

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Ring
From:	margali <margali@-------->
Date:	Tue, 31 Jul 2001 16:34:49 -0400

The coin frames are fairly commonly available from coin dealers -
just see if there is a listing in the yellow pages for
numismatics or coin dealers.
When I am not so frantically packing for Pennsic and doing the
Job Interview Shuffle I will tr to look them up online ;-)
marali
--
~~~~~
The Quote Starts Here:
Salve!
That sounds like a good idea! Could you describe what it
looks like so
mabye I can make one of my own? Or if you run into the vendor
again where you
got your necklace, mabye ask him where he bought his? Thanks
Vale,
Carolus Octavius Maximinius


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] NOVA ROMA: Capita XVIII et XIX
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:48:14 +0200

Ave mi Venator,

> > Salvete Quirites,
> >
> > Here are chapters 18 and 19 of the NR Mars novel.
> > (excision)
> >
>
> I wanted to hold comment until I saw how the character develped from the
> first mention.
>
> I am coming to like this Venator quite well.
> Very nicely done, nicely done indeed.
>

Thank you very much. I'm glad you like him ;-).

> Perhaps when you are finished, the chapters could be assembled into an
> e-book available through the Macellum.
>

Oppius was busy doing this before he left, so I guess the full story will
become available when he's back and when the novel is finished.

Vale optime!
Draco


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: The Comitia Centuriata is Convened
From:	"Robert Woolwine" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Tue, 31 Jul 2001 21:04:51 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@--------> wrote:
> --- In novaroma@--------, "Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@n...>
> wrote:
>
> SNIP
> >
> > ITEM II: LEX VEDIA DE PRIVATUS REBUS
> >
> > The Lex Cornelia de Privatus Rebus is hereby amended to include
the
> > following:
> >
> > "Provincial governors, or their lawfully appointed assistants,
may
> receive
> > confidential information, but only relating to those citizens
> within their
> > provincia, in accordance with the restrictions and procedures
> governing
> > release of such information for magistrates.
> >
>
> Salve,
> Does this section mean that the Legates can request information
from
> the Censors? There is a need for Governors to share information
with
> thier Legates, But any requests for the information should come
> directly from the Governor.

Ave,

I agree. Only the governor should request information.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: The Comitia Centuriata is Convened
From:	"Robert Woolwine" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Tue, 31 Jul 2001 21:15:11 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@p...>
wrote:
> Salvete omnes,
>
> (snipped)
>
>
> Sulla scripsit:
>
> > As Censor, let me comment on this revision. I believe that the
Lex
> > Cornelia de Privatus Rebus needs to be altered to give governors
> > confidential information. However, I am very concerned in letting
> > Legates petition and gain access to this information. I am
concerned
> > for the following reasons.
> >
> > 1. Legates are not appointed by the People NOR the Senate of Nova
> > Roma. Their only check is a governor, and given that some legates
> > might have a very active governor..or not an active governor this
> > holds potential confidentiality issues.
> >
> > 2. Legates are not oath binding magistrates. They are not bound
to
> > anyone except the governor. This is a precarious situation, by
> > relasing confidential information. We have already seen Oath
Binding
> > magistrates violate their oath without a second thought. I am
very
> > hesistant about releasing private and confidential information to
> > individuals who might not in essence be accountable to anyone. I
say
> > this given the fact that some of our governors have disappeared
after
> > being appointed as governor.
> >
> > Once again, I state, that I believe that there needs to be
revision
> > in this. However, this proposed law goes way too far. Give the
> > authority to the Governor. He/She has Imperium. Legates do not
have
> > Imperium.
> >
>
> But in some provinciae, governors aren't always present, or must
delegate
> tasks to their Legates because of practical reasons. I think
knowing your
> fellow citizens' e-mail address or phone number is hardly a
dangerous thing.
> I mean, the information in the citizenship application doesn't
contain
> really personal information (such as sexual preference, intimate
questions,
> personal histories, hobbies...).

Sulla: Then we need a new governor. Your example feeds into my
criticism. We cannot have Legates running amuck without supervisory
control. We, the Senate or the People will not have any way to
control a Legate. We did not vote for nor appoint a Legate. Your
example reinforces my belief that only the Governors should petition
for such information. Also, let me add that my phone number, my
address, and any other information that is covered under the Lex
Cornelia de Privatus Rebus IS personal information. And, if there is
a time where I do not want a Legate or even a governor to have that
information, it should be my perogrative as a citizen to have that
information withheld. There is no such check in this revision.

> And should the Legati really make a mistake (which I would like to
hear a
> possible example of), then a Propraetor can fire that person.
Anyone who
> abuses info (but I can't see why or what for) can be punished.

But, as you pointed above, if the governor is inactive (and we have
had this happen), then we are in a pickle. We have no established
precedent, and as I told a few other Nova Romans privately I want
stronger punishments if there is abuses. More than just firing,
because we are talking of a breech of trust.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: The Comitia Centuriata is Convened
From:	"Robert Woolwine" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Tue, 31 Jul 2001 21:14:50 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@p...>
wrote:
> Salvete omnes,
>
> (snipped)
>
>
> Sulla scripsit:
>
> > As Censor, let me comment on this revision. I believe that the
Lex
> > Cornelia de Privatus Rebus needs to be altered to give governors
> > confidential information. However, I am very concerned in letting
> > Legates petition and gain access to this information. I am
concerned
> > for the following reasons.
> >
> > 1. Legates are not appointed by the People NOR the Senate of Nova
> > Roma. Their only check is a governor, and given that some legates
> > might have a very active governor..or not an active governor this
> > holds potential confidentiality issues.
> >
> > 2. Legates are not oath binding magistrates. They are not bound
to
> > anyone except the governor. This is a precarious situation, by
> > relasing confidential information. We have already seen Oath
Binding
> > magistrates violate their oath without a second thought. I am
very
> > hesistant about releasing private and confidential information to
> > individuals who might not in essence be accountable to anyone. I
say
> > this given the fact that some of our governors have disappeared
after
> > being appointed as governor.
> >
> > Once again, I state, that I believe that there needs to be
revision
> > in this. However, this proposed law goes way too far. Give the
> > authority to the Governor. He/She has Imperium. Legates do not
have
> > Imperium.
> >
>
> But in some provinciae, governors aren't always present, or must
delegate
> tasks to their Legates because of practical reasons. I think
knowing your
> fellow citizens' e-mail address or phone number is hardly a
dangerous thing.
> I mean, the information in the citizenship application doesn't
contain
> really personal information (such as sexual preference, intimate
questions,
> personal histories, hobbies...).

Sulla: Then we need a new governor. Your example feeds into my
criticism. We cannot have Legates running amuck without supervisory
control. We, the Senate or the People will not have any way to
control a Legate. We did not vote for nor appoint a Legate. Your
example reinforces my belief that only the Governors should petition
for such information. Also, let me add that my phone number, my
address, and any other information that is covered under the Lex
Cornelia de Privatus Rebus IS personal information. And, if there is
a time where I do not want a Legate or even a governor to have that
information, it should be my perogrative as a citizen to have that
information withheld. There is no such check in this revision.

> And should the Legati really make a mistake (which I would like to
hear a
> possible example of), then a Propraetor can fire that person.
Anyone who
> abuses info (but I can't see why or what for) can be punished.

But, as you pointed above, if the governor is inactive, then we are
in a pickle. We have no established precedent, and as I told a few
other Nova Romans privately I want stronger punishments if there is
abuses. More than just firing, because we are talking of a breech of
trust.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: On the change to the Lex Cornelia de Privatus Rebus
From:	"Robert Woolwine" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Tue, 31 Jul 2001 21:27:48 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, QFabiusMaxmi@a... wrote:
> Salvete
>
> As the person most pushing for this change, I have to say one thing.
> When is a person's privacy paramount in a state that they
voluntarily joined?

Ave,

I don't believe that is entirely the issue.

> Because that becomes the over riding issue here. Are we an
Internet
> organization or
> are we are trying to become more of a real nation?

Well you know my view on this. We are a real nation. However, my
concern is just how many people will be able to access this
information. Make a request to access this information and the lack
of controls once this information is released.

If we are an Internet
> organization then Pompeia and Cassius are correct, certain
information really
> is not needed. However, and I use however, if we are on our to
becoming a
> real nation and this I believe we are, one that must have meetings
of the
> populace, collect dues, give out information, so we are going to
need
> addresses of the populace.

I have no problem with this. However, I have concerns about
Legates. Legates should not be able to request this information.
And the way the revision is stated, there is no check that a Legate
must get consent from a governor to access this. Worst case
scenario, we have an inactive governor doing nothing....while his/her
Legate is running the show. There is no check on any potential abuse
by legates or punishments built into the Lex revision.

> The old lex was for an Internet organization of 250 souls. This
revision is
> for a growing population of 900+.

And I have stated to you privately that a revision is needed.

> Citizens of Rome, how are the Provincial Praetors going to do their
jobs if
> they are denied the addresses of their provincial populace?

But, the lex goes beyond the Provincial Praetors. If you limit it to
just that, then I would lend my support to this revision.

And what about
> these multi-lingual provinces that some Praetors have to
administer? Unless
> the Praetors are bi or tri lingual, they are going to have to
assistants,
> Legatii, that do. The Senate appoints the Praetor, they assume
that these
> are responsible adults, who understand the meaning of privacy. The
Senate
> also assumes that the
> Praetor will show good judgment in appointing legatii.

That protection just is not enough for me. I and others wrote the
original Lex due to overwhelming concern citizens had for protecting
their private information. With no check built in to protect
potential abuses, then we have a problem. And, what if a governor
becomes inactive or even leaves NR in the middle of his/her term. We
had this very situation last year. We need to account for situations
that might arise and prevent forseeable abuses.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: On the change to the Lex Cornelia de Privatus Rebus
From:	Steven - Piparskeggr <catamount_grange@-------->
Date:	Tue, 31 Jul 2001 16:47:07 -0500

Avate Omnes,

Been watching the debate.

As a Legate, I have certain duties to the government, but a stronger
duty to the protection of the Citizens.

I should like to have the safeguard of my request for information being
confirmed by the governor.

But, as I did with a mailing earlier this year, with some research, one
can find contact e-mails for those residong within one's Province.

BTW, anyone residing in the Western Region of Gret Lakes
(Illinois, Wisconsin and Indiana) drop me a note if you
would be interested in a regional get together this Fall.

Also, all Great Lakes Cives,
please join the provincial e-list:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GreatLakesNovaRoma

Right now we have 15 out of 50 or so Cives enrolled there.
(Well, 16 as my wife reads over my shoulder ;-)

It is very low volume.

--
=========================================
In Amicus sub Fidelis
- Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
Cives et Paterfamilias
Qu�stor, Legate et Dominus Sodalis
Domus Familias
http://www.geocities.com/gens_ulleria/index.html
File of my Poems and Songs
http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/Pip_music/files/
The Sodalis pro Coqueror et Coquus
http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/
Quid quid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound.)


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Mars novel
From:	"Teleri ferch Nyfain" <rckovak@-------->
Date:	Tue, 31 Jul 2001 19:37:24 -0400

<<<I wanted to hold comment until I saw how the character develped from the
first mention.

I am coming to like this Venator quite well.
Very nicely done, nicely done indeed.

Perhaps when you are finished, the chapters could be assembled into an
e-book available through the Macellum.

mea sententia>>>

Salvete,
I think having a "e-publisher" type section in the Macellum would be a great
idea. This novel is not the only one being written and there are poems,
plays etc. Good idea.
Helena Galeria


Subject:	[novaroma] Digest No 1556 DE REBUS PRIVATA
From:	"Lucius Equitius" <vze23hw7@-------->
Date:	Tue, 31 Jul 2001 19:52:06 -0400

Censor Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Quiritibus SPD

I would like to state my agreement with whose who consider privacy an
important right.
I have in the course of my duties as Censor, I have given email addresses to
duly appointed
Governors upon their specific request. I have checked the records of
candidates dates of birth and length of citizenship to inform the Senate
and/or Consules of their eligibility.
I have not given phone numbers, street addresses, real names etc. unless
given specific permission from any citizen or applicant to anyone.

I do not see any reason yet that should compel citizens to have their
private information given to "local authorities". Each citizen should be
able to decide for themselves whether or not they want their street
addresses/Phone numbers given out and they are quite capable of doing such
themselves.

I would be able, as my colleague also states, to support this lex should the
proposal be amended to only giving Governors access to private information.
The problem isn't that magistrates aren't given addresses, but rather that
many citizens are not necessarily interested in 'real life' involvement in
Nova Roma.

Salve,
Does this section mean that the Legates can request information from
the Censors? There is a need for Governors to share information with
thier Legates, But any requests for the information should come
directly from the Governor.

Vale,
L. Sicinius Drusus
Propraetor America Austrorientalis

Avete,

I reluctantly agree with Drusus on this point.
Realistically if Nova Roma is to continue to grow more
will have to be handled on the local level. But I,
too am leery of having personal information sifted out
to random individuals and I use the word random here
since the change of hands may occur at any time and
often. Also if citizens can opt to prevent private
information from being released how then can the
governors do their job effectively if, as Drusus as
says, this is necessary for effective administration
of the provincia? It doesn't seem to make sense to me
to have an either or situation. This lex does not
seem to fully realize either situation.

Vale,Pompeia Antonia Caesar

Sulla scripsit:

> As Censor, let me comment on this revision. I believe that the Lex
> Cornelia de Privatus Rebus needs to be altered to give governors
> confidential information. However, I am very concerned in letting
> Legates petition and gain access to this information. I am concerned
> for the following reasons.
>
> 1. Legates are not appointed by the People NOR the Senate of Nova
> Roma. Their only check is a governor, and given that some legates
> might have a very active governor..or not an active governor this
> holds potential confidentiality issues.
>
> 2. Legates are not oath binding magistrates. They are not bound to
> anyone except the governor. This is a precarious situation, by
> relasing confidential information. We have already seen Oath Binding
> magistrates violate their oath without a second thought. I am very
> hesistant about releasing private and confidential information to
> individuals who might not in essence be accountable to anyone. I say
> this given the fact that some of our governors have disappeared after
> being appointed as governor.
>
> Once again, I state, that I believe that there needs to be revision
> in this. However, this proposed law goes way too far. Give the
> authority to the Governor. He/She has Imperium. Legates do not have
> Imperium.
>

From: margali <margali@-------->
Subject: Re: Re: The Comitia Centuriata is Convened

Well, I for one have many years of experience outwitting a
particular stalker, and I don't mind my town and state being made
known to the 'Powers That Be', but I would prefer to keep at
least my street address confidential - everything is in my
husband's name [we do not share the same last name] and I don't
mind my email address being public, but I would really prefer
that nobody knows my telephone number [unless they e-mail me and
specifically ask for it.]

I can see a need for email, town and state - but for the most
part, I don't see a need for the street address [unless
subscribing to a newsletter] or a phone number [unless you happen
to hold an office]
margali
Hyapatia Asinia Margali
[and for the curious, we still have the synthesized digital voice
on the answering machine, and screen all incoming calls and I
refuse to answer the door unless either the stranger is
accompanied by a friend [and they have called ahead] or I am
expecting a package from UPS, USPS or FedEx.]
~~~~~

Salvete Omnes!

As a concerned citizen I can only say: Hear hear hear! A
very sensible comment made by Nerva.

Marcellus Decianus Batavius

gcassiusnerva@-------- schreef:

From: "Domna Claudia Auspicata" <comptess@-------->
Subject: Lex Cornelia de Privatus Rebus

Salvete Quirites

In regards to the Lex Cornelia de Privatus Rebus and its proposed ammendment
I offer some information that may be of interest regarding privacy issues.
I believe New Zealand is one of the few countries (the trend is growing
though) to have 'strict' laws protecting the citizens, if they release
private information, from dangers and other annoying things like having your
address, etc released to 50 insurance companies. I have only taken a tiny
snippet from the NZ Privacy Act 1993. Perhaps this may be useful.

Valete
Domna Claudia Auspicata
NR Civis

http://www.knowledge-basket.co.nz/privacy/legislation/legislation.html
Privacy Act 1993
II: Information Privacy Principles.
Section 6. Information privacy principles

PRINCIPLE 1

Purpose of collection of personal information
Personal information shall not be collected by any agency unless---
(a) The information is collected for a lawful purpose connected with a
function or activity of the agency; and
(b) The collection of the information is necessary for that purpose.

PRINCIPLE 11

Limits on disclosure of personal information

An agency that holds personal information shall not disclose the
information to a person or body or agency unless the agency believes, on
reasonable grounds,---
(a) That the disclosure of the information is one of the purposes in
connection with which the information was obtained or is
directly related to the purposes in connection with which the
information was obtained;