| Subject: |
[novaroma] ELECTION: Invalid Voter Codes (5) |
| From: |
"Domna Claudia Auspicata" <comptess@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:06:09 +1200 |
|
Salvete Quirites
Tracker #'s = 6108, 6109, 6110
Could the recipient of the following tracker numbers (it seems obviously one person) please contact me (comptess@--------) or the Censors if you are having difficulties finding your Voter Code, or stop playing around. :-)
Tracker # = 6112
Could the person with this number please try to vote again, be careful to input your numerals and letters accurately. There should be exactly 3letters and 3numbers in your Voter code.
Valete
Domna Claudia Auspicata
Rogator
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Two Quick Questions |
| From: |
"Nick R. Ramos Jr." <nramos@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 14 Aug 2001 05:03:48 -0000 |
|
Salvete omnes!
Rivers were definitely used for transport of troops and supplies -
the Classis Danubica and Moesica are referenced several times in
different accounts. In "De Bello Gallica", G. Ivlivs Caesar makes
several tantalizing references to his arrangements for resupply
during his campaigns - unfortunately, the subject of logistics seems
to be one the ancients assumed their audiences knew and therefore,
need not be discussed in their writings. It may be that the books
written on the subject were lost like so many books of Antiqvitas in
the purges of "profane" or "pagan" things which were so frequent in
European history. Also, other Classis (Fleets) are mentioned in
various sources - IIRC, Vegetius and Polybius mention them.
The liburnians were used because of their shallow draft and good
manueverability. One of the most interesting things about them is
that when the Rus tribe and others go a-viking (yes, we're talking
about Viking raids here) they use ships remarkably almost identical
as those depicted in Roman coinage of several centuries before...
Optime vale, et Iuppiter nos protegas!
M. Cornelius Scipio
--- In novaroma@--------, Bill Gawne <gawne@a...> wrote:
> Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa scripsit:
>
> > 1) Did the Romans use rivers for transport of troops or military
supplies?
> > If so, what kind of ships were used?
>
> I'm pretty sure the answer is "Yes, they did." though a definitive
> reference continues to elude me. In _The Roman Soldier_ Watson
> mentions that the Empire maintained a Danube River fleet, and
> a Rhine River fleet. He doesn't specify the duties of those
> fleets, but assuming that they performed roughly the same duties
> as the big fleets operating in the Medeterranian, then they would
> have regularly transported troops and supplies.
>
> The river fleets used decked liburnians (fast biremes). I would
> imagine they also pressed civilian shipping into use from time
> to time.
>
> Gnaeus Equitius Marinus
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] meeting |
| From: |
PompeiaAntoniaCaesar <europamoon7@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 13 Aug 2001 23:22:48 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Avete Omnes,
Just wanted to let everyone know how the meeting in
Orange County went on Saturday, August 11. Those
present included our illustrious Censor Lucius
Cornelia Sulla Felix, Secunda Cornelia, Quaestrix of
Nova Roma and Accensia of the Proconsul Quintus Fabius
Maximus who was also present, several cives and some
non Nova Romans. The afternoon started off with a
ritual performed by Quintus Fabius Maximus in honor of
the Goddess Minerva. I was then presented with a
beautiful statue hand painted by our Governor. After
giving thanks we proceeded to lunch on ancient Roman
food prepared as the ancients would have (or as close
as I could get)and honeyed wine. It was a feast
befitting the outstanding company. Poetry was then
read by Romulus Augustus Porus, a new civis, some
written by our own Senator Marcus Audens. I then
presented Romulus with two Nova Roma coins in
appreciation for his wonderful reading and our
Governor presented me with some coins to thank me for
hosting the event. This was followed by a meeting and
great conversation and fun that lasted until the late
evening. I showed off my new map of ancient Rome by
Marcus Audens. Everyone loved it. Quintus Fabius
Maximus and Lucius Cornelia Sulla Felix presented much
information on ancient Rome and enlightened everyone,
especially those of us who are novices. Such
brilliant individuals! The dress was Roman and even
non NRs were not exempt from this. But it was done in
fun and non NRs were really good sports about it. One
even rented his costume, while others used sheets and
Quintus Fabius Maximus wore his authentic tunic (it
was a little warm for his wool toga). It was truly a
bonding experience that enriched and strengthened my
love for Nova Roma and resolve to help her grow. I
will be hosting another meeting on Saturday October 15
and look forward to it with even greater anticipation.
I hope to have some new NRs in attendance. I will be
posting details soon.
Valete to all and with gratitude that I am a part of
such an elite nation.
Pompeia Antonia Caesar
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] The problems of the Late Republic |
| From: |
Publius Sentius Rutilianus Dexion <rapax@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:01:18 +0300 |
|
' Everyone,the reformers as well as their
opponents,wished to preserve
it,and in spite of this-indeed because of this-they gradually destroyed
its foundations...
The basic form of the republic was never questioned.For this reason,if
for no other,the
leading senators identified themselves to such an extent with the
republic that they saw
any plan
to restrict their powers as an attack on the republic.They therefore
defended it without
its being attacked and by doing so they seriously endangered it....
Could the victorious leader of nine legions
and twenty two cohorts
really be expected simply to hand himself over?....
It was traditionally held that the leading
circles in the senate were
responsible for its policy and it had long been taken for granted that
men who were too
powerful to conform to senatorial discipline must be vigorously
opposed.There was
every reason to fear Caesar's return to internal politics and the more
powerful he became
the more it was feared.'
Salvete...
Just some thought provoking passages from the
book 'Caesar' which
made me ask some questions on the Late Republic..What were the
weaknesses of it?
Was it the personal incapabilities of the senators?Or was it the problem
of the Senate as
an instutition which could no longer function properly to rule a world
empire?How come
strong individuals like Sulla,Caesar and Pompey could find the potential
of defiance to the
existing order?And finally...Was Augustus a blessing or a curse for Rome
given the same
framework of the Senate?
Any comments and views are highly
appreciated and as a matter of
fact needed....
Valete bene...
Publius Sentius Rutilianus Dexion
Civis Novae Romae
* Sapiens dominabitur astris ! *
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Century #19 |
| From: |
"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 14 Aug 2001 04:13:21 -0700 (PDT) |
|
--- Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@--------> wrote:
>
> Salvete cives et amici,
>
> I was curious why citizen Marcus Tarquinius Lupus is
> located in century 19
> when he only has 15 century points? This is a
> mistake... right? No offence
> intended, Marcus Lupus.
>
> "Quamquam cupido sis delictum ab sui crebro suum
> mater ab vitualis"
> "Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is
> often the mother of virtues"
If you look at his citizen ID number you will see that
it's very low. His date of citizenship is 2000/00/00,
which has to be a error. The bad date is causing
Marcus Tarquinius Century points to be computed wrong
on the website. I'm sure that once his record is
corrected he will have the points to justify his
assignment to the first class.
Vale,
L. Sicinius Drusus
Propraetor America Austrorientalis
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] more on Centuries |
| From: |
"Maia" <mjarc@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:09:14 -0000 |
|
Salvete Romani!
Please forgive my ignorance as well, but I am very new to Nova Roma…
Too new to vote, actually, but very curious about many things.
On Aug 9, Senator Marcus Octavius Germanicus wrote:
>> There are some things I don't understand. Is the Centuria numbers
>> on the main site correct? Are the century points the base for
>> placement in the centuries?
>
> Eventually, they will be. For this election, all we did was to
> place new citizens in centuries; no one who was already in a
> century was moved. This is because the data used to calculate
> century points is incomplete. A complete reallocation of all
> centuries will be done before November.
Then on Aug 10, Consul Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote:
> we're voting in the Comitia Centuriata simply to get the vote taken
> care of quickly, not with any expectation that the Centuries would
> approve it when the Tribes would not.
And today, Propraetor L. Sicinius Drusus explained:
> The bad date is causing Marcus Tarquinius Century points to be
> computed wrong on the website. I'm sure that once his record is
> corrected he will have the points to justify his assignment to the
> first class.
Of course. However, it would seem from these posts that we cannot
really rely on century points right now. I understood from reading
the list that the data they are based on is incomplete and sometimes
plain wrong. So the results of the vote in Comitia Centuriata may be
_just a little_ wrong? Should the Comitia vote while the errors are
there? Especially as Centuriata vote on Lex Vedia de Privatus Rebus
for convenience, just because they happen to vote on Lex Vedia de
Ratione Comitiorum Centuriatorum, and normally the vote would be held
by the Comitia Populi Tributa?
Especially as a lex on privacy, any lex on privacy I guess, may be
seen as a little controversial?
So much for my introduction on the main list I think. ;-) Anyway,
could you perhaps say something reassuring to dispel these doubts
above?
Thank you in advance and valete
Maia Apollonia Pica
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] absentia |
| From: |
"Manius Constantinus Serapio" <manius_constantinus_serapio@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 14 Aug 2001 17:11:32 -0000 |
|
AVETE OMNES
I inform you that I will be absent from 17th to 21th for my
(short) summer holydays.
BANE VALETE MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO
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| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] The problems of the Late Republic |
| From: |
QFabiusMaxmi@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 14 Aug 2001 14:46:19 EDT |
|
In a message dated 8/14/01 2:45:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
rapax@-------- writes:
> What were the weaknesses of it?
> Was it the personal incapabilities of the senators?Or was it the problem
> of the Senate as an instutition which could no longer function properly
> to rule a world empire?How come
> strong individuals like Sulla,Caesar and Pompey could find the potential
> of defiance to the existing order?And finally...Was Augustus a blessing or
> a curse for Rome given the same Framework of the Senate? Any comments and
> views are highly appreciated and as a matter of fact needed....
>
Salvete!
When we were studying the Republic in school, this question was asked a lot.
The seeds really lay in the Second Punic War After the war with so many
yeoman farmers, the back bone of the Legiones, disenfrancised, control of the
republic was concentrated in the hand of a few powerful patrician gens, with
the increasing disinterest of the citizens. The ambition of the Roman
aristocratic families kept a system of bureaucracy going. The fee this tiny
group of two dozen Gens had to expend for exclusive dominance of the Roman
Republican world was the making of donation of entertainment to the people.
While this period of expansion and the mastery of Roman foreign policy was at
its height there were
difficulties at home.
As the Republic grew it brought Rome wealth and a plethora of goods. The long
wars required a great number of soldiers, who came from Rome and the allied
Italian cities. A soldier's regular period of service in the late Republic
(110-28) was up to twenty years. After that length of time, many veterans
could not work in the fields to make a living, or did not want to. The
constant drain on the male population meant that many farms had to be run
entirely by slaves. The rich senators who possessed the funds to buy huge
estates profited, for many small farmers were forced to sell their'
unprofitable land and move to Rome. The Senate tried to control extravagance
by constantly passing new laws, especially when G. Iulies Caesar was trying
to hold his spectacles to curry the voters' favor.. The urban population, the
plebs of the City, gradually developed into an significant component in the
Patrician power struggle, and the Paters had to take account of these. From
the late second century BCE the urbanites lobbied for cheap grain. They were
supported by individual representatives from the families of the Patricians,
out of their desire to solve the problem, but also with an eye to their own
careers, for they regarded these amenities to city residents an effective way
of gaining the support of potential voters by winning their allegiance.
Others did not want to see these few so involved with the Plebs and any
reform, so they attempted to disrupt their influence. Since political power
was now concentrated in the hands of a few families holding all the major
public offices, competition for these offices were increasingly expressed in
terms of animosity. This in turn lead to formation of dynasts which was the
death knell of the Roman Republic.
By the end of the first century BCE the Roman voters had come to expect that
aediles and praetors, who might at a later stage wish to be appointed to the
consulship, would be giving ludi,(Games) but munea (Gladiator contests) were
still formally not being provided for the Roman people by its magistrates.
Funerals continued to be the occasion on which games were presented by
private individuals with social, but not necessarily political ambitions. The
munus was an alternative way of expressing publicly the wealth and social
importance of the deceased. This would change after the civil wars.
The end of civil wars (28) left one dynast standing: the Julian/Claudians,
and one powerful man Octavious Caesar, now called Augustus (First citizen)
Caesar. Like everything else Roman, he put his stamp on the Ludi. There is
evidence that Augustus gave gladiatorial games a major new role in the Roman
ceremonial calender although it appears there continued to be changes usually
in the officials responsible for staging shows.
By assuming total political power in his own hands, Augustus ended claims to
prestige by anyone in public life who was not a member of the imperial family
from turning into potential challenges to his own position as Imperator.
This had been one of the problems in the old republic. One of the ways of
doing this doing this was to make the munea state controlled. The gladiator
ludi (schools) now became subsidized by the State. This helped manage any
senator at Rome attempting gain independent sources of popularity especially
through ludi or munea. . Augustus would bestow or take away any glory as he
saw fit. He imposed his own solution at Rome, monopolizing the glory and
decreeing about who was to give it out, in other words to those who were not
a political threat to his office.
In carrying out this policy as early as the early 20s BCE, Augustus had
restricted the praetors to a slim number of gladiatorial shows during their
year of office, with even the number of participants defined. Cassius Dio
tells us, "Furthermore the Praetors who were used to expending efforts to
carry out their duties, putting on extravagant shows, found themselves
limited to only two, and of these no more then l20 Gladiators could
participate." {Roman History LIV 2.4}
>From my "Short History of Gladiator," Issue III June 2001, Strategikon.
Vale
Q. Fabius Maximus
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Using Rivers for Supplies |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@-------- |
| Date: |
Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:33:44 -0400 (EDT) |
|
Master Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa;
Quote:--
"A new offensive against the Dacians was being plnned for the following
spring (AD 88). Viminacium was a hive of activity throughout thewinter
as troops and supplies arrived for the coming campaign. Most supplies
were towed up the Danube in barges. But late in winter, ice floating
down river crashed through the gorge to the east of Viminacium, ripping
away sections of the towpath. It happened most years, as soon as the
river subsided, the soldiers were out in force repairing the path."
(Pages 12-13)
On these pages are drawings and diagrams of the tow-path and the work
parties engaged in the task of repair. On pages 14-15 a more detiled
picture of an average barge is shown.
Reference:
"The Legionary", Peter Connolly, Oxford University Press, 1988
"Gubernatores" are included on the l6th century list of Miles Immunes,
and are described as "ship pilots." However, there is a possiblituy
that these immunes were also used as pilots on river craft, that suplied
the Legion bases along the Rhile, danubeand other rivers where legion
bases were found.
(Page 119)
Reference:
"The Roman Imperial Army", Graham Webster, Univ. of Oklahoma Press,
1998.
Respectfully;
Marcus Audens
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Poll results for novaroma |
| From: |
novaroma@-------- |
| Date: |
14 Aug 2001 23:47:29 -0000 |
|
The following novaroma poll is now closed. Here are the
final results:
POLL QUESTION: Should posts to the Main List be
required to be signed?
CHOICES AND RESULTS
- Yes, posts should be signed., 38 votes, 74.51%
- No, signatures should not matter., 13 votes, 25.49%
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Poll results for novaroma |
| From: |
novaroma@-------- |
| Date: |
14 Aug 2001 23:47:50 -0000 |
|
The following novaroma poll is now closed. Here are the
final results:
POLL QUESTION: Should citizens be required to use
their official Nova Roma e-mail address
for the Main List?
CHOICES AND RESULTS
- Yes, official e-mail addresses should be used, 16 votes, 32.65%
- No, any e-mail can be used, 33 votes, 67.35%
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Poll results for novaroma |
| From: |
novaroma@-------- |
| Date: |
14 Aug 2001 23:48:13 -0000 |
|
The following novaroma poll is now closed. Here are the
final results:
POLL QUESTION: Should the List Policies document be
posted on a regular basis to the Main
List?
CHOICES AND RESULTS
- Yes, posted weekly, 5 votes, 10.00%
- Yes, posted monthly, 36 votes, 72.00%
- No, not posted at all, 9 votes, 18.00%
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Poll results for novaroma |
| From: |
novaroma@-------- |
| Date: |
14 Aug 2001 23:48:52 -0000 |
|
The following novaroma poll is now closed. Here are the
final results:
POLL QUESTION: Should political posts be diverted to a
list other than the Main List?
CHOICES AND RESULTS
- Yes, all political posts should be diverted to another list, 4 votes, 8.33%
- Yes, with the exception of election periods, 5 votes, 10.42%
- No, no diversion of political posts should take place, 39 votes, 81.25%
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Poll results for novaroma |
| From: |
novaroma@-------- |
| Date: |
14 Aug 2001 23:48:34 -0000 |
|
The following novaroma poll is now closed. Here are the
final results:
POLL QUESTION: Should the number of posts an
individual may make to the Main List on
a daily basis be limited?
CHOICES AND RESULTS
- Yes, no more than 4 per day, 7 votes, 14.29%
- Yes, no more than 7 per day, 4 votes, 8.16%
- No, no limits should be placed on the number of posts, 38 votes, 77.55%
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