Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: more on Centuries
From:	"Maia Apollonia Pica" <mjarc@-------->
Date:	Fri, 17 Aug 2001 08:07:16 +0200

Salvete!

Proconsul Marcus Audens, I can only assure you I _am_ learning, even
as I read everybody's posts here to the group.

On 16 Aug 2001, at 11:01, T Labienus Fortunatus wrote:

> I would recommend becoming a scriba especially to new cives who have
> much to learn about Nova Roma. It is an excellent way to be exposed
> to the day-to-day running of the Respublica in a manner that allows
> one to contribute in small but quite meaningful ways.
>
> Serving first as a rogator and second as a scriba censorialis gave me
> a great deal of insight into Nova Roma's government; insight I don't
> believe I could have developed half so easily or fully if I had not
> volunteered for those jobs.

I understand. And I cetainly intend to work for Nova Roma, but I will
think of my province Venedia first. I am sure the Respublica will
have a job for me here, locally.

Valete

Maia Apollonia Pica





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Subject:	[novaroma] Friday, 17/8. Portunalia.
From:	"Daniel Place" <danat2000@-------->
Date:	Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:49:46 +0930

Salvete Quirites,

Just a brief note to let you all know that today is the Portunalia, the day sacred to Portunus, the God of Ports and Harbours. As the Flamen Portunalis today I will burn incense and offer prayers to Portunus on behalf of Nova Roma and its people.

Unfortunately very little is known of the rite traditionally performed on this date; however it seems to be accepted by many scholars that an offering of keys was possibly made to Portunus on this date, possibly harkening back to Portunus' word meaning as a god of doors and openings. Additionally the only recorded function of the Flamen Portunalis was the annointment of the arms of Quirinus, the priests exact role on the Portunalia is alas unknown.

May Portunus guide and protect the people and Republic of Nova Roma.

valete,

Marcus Arcadius Pius
Flamen Portunalis


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Subject:	[novaroma] Out of Touch!!
From:	jmath669642reng@--------
Date:	Fri, 17 Aug 2001 09:18:58 -0400 (EDT)

Citizens of Nova Roma;

I will be out of touch this weekend from Friday through Sunday. I have
a Civil War Event at Fort Nathen Hale in New Haven, and on Sunday
morning I will play the part of General Garth, Commanding the 3000 man
British Raid on New Haven in 1778. It is a memorial held on West Haven
Green near the Courthouse at 10:00 A.M. this coming Sunday, to
commemorate those Americans who died in the British Raid and to some
particular heroes of the Revolution. I don't expect that I will be too
popular in this role (Grin).

The event at Fort Nathen Hale is a special one for the fort in that it
will be the first event where the bunker is being used as they were
during the war, and we will be building some rough furniture for use in
the bunker. Eventually we hope to use all three bunkers in this way.
As the Fort Engineer on the Restoration Committee, this is one of my
specific tasks.

I would invite any NR people in the area to attend and meet me in bunker
#3 for a face-to-face. Just look for the Engineering flags or ask any
reenactor.

Respectfully;
Marcus Audens



Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!


http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Century Allocation (was RE: Century Points)
From:	"Maia Apollonia Pica" <mjarc@-------->
Date:	Fri, 17 Aug 2001 09:26:14 +0200

Salve Consul Flavi Vedi Germanice!

> > I have not been an enthusiast for the century-points system, as I
> > think that it is one aspect of NR life close to the rôle-playing
> > gaming that we claim to be above.
>
> It may seem odd that I would agree with Formosanus on this particular
> point, but I too am not a great fan of the Century Point system
> (despite the fact that it was my own idea); I see it as a compromise
> of convenience. However, I am certain he would agree that assigning
> centuries according to the ancient model (i.e., according to the
> wealth of the individual) is unacceptable. Obviously some criteria for
> assigning centuries must be adopted, and at the time the best
> compromise seemed to be the current system, which encouraged
> participation in public life.
>
> I would be eager to hear what alternative Formosanus (or anyone else
> for that matter) may have to the current system for assigning
> centuries. Some people seem disgruntled with the current system;
> anyone have any better ideas?

To be very blunt: why do we need centuries at all? They are historic
of course, but then so are many other things which Nova Roma chooses
not to revive, such as slavery. (I'm not saying the system of
centuries and slavery are similar, only that historicity is not
enough in itself to encourage us to revive things. And it's an honest
question, not some lame atempt at provocation.)

Century points give unequal rights to various citizens, right? The
Constitution says that the criterion is "commitment to Nova Roma",
but I don't think commitment can be measured, and, as Propraetor L.
Sicinius Drusus noted, only some forms of commitment are rewarded
anyway. Even if commitment could be measured precisely, I suppose I
would still see a system based on it as undemocratic, unfair. As this
is the 28th century AUC, shouldn't we see all basically undemocratic
forms of government as obsolete? (Unless in a game, but NR is not a
game. BTW, I have nothing against role-playing, being a gamer
myself.)

(If this post sounds impolite, that's because of my uncertainty with
polite English. I am honestly trying to learn everybody's arguments.)

Valete

Maia Apollonia Pica




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Subject:	[novaroma] Tribune's Announcement: Litteras Electronicas Meas Restituebam
From:	labienus@--------
Date:	Fri, 17 Aug 2001 09:42:14 US/Central

Tribunus Plebis T Labienus Quiritibus SPD

I have successfully fixed my communications problems. It will probably take me
a few days to respond to the various messages that were in my inbox prior to my
partial e-mail outage. If you are awaiting a response to some private e-mail
from me, I will get to you eventually.

Valete





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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Century Allocation (was RE: Century Points)
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Fri, 17 Aug 2001 09:48:46 -0500 (CDT)

Salve Maia Apollonia,

> To be very blunt: why do we need centuries at all? They are historic
> of course, but then so are many other things which Nova Roma chooses
> not to revive, such as slavery. (I'm not saying the system of
> centuries and slavery are similar, only that historicity is not
> enough in itself to encourage us to revive things. And it's an honest
> question, not some lame atempt at provocation.)

We should strive to be as historical as we can, except in extereme
circumstances. Slavery, racism and sexism are abhorrent to all
civilized people, and thus there is an overwhelming need to
stand against them. The system of centuries is clearly not in
the same category as those things.

> Century points give unequal rights to various citizens, right? The
> Constitution says that the criterion is "commitment to Nova Roma",
> but I don't think commitment can be measured, and, as Propraetor L.
> Sicinius Drusus noted, only some forms of commitment are rewarded
> anyway.

This can be best solved by further refining the Century system.

> Even if commitment could be measured precisely, I suppose I
> would still see a system based on it as undemocratic, unfair. As this
> is the 28th century AUC, shouldn't we see all basically undemocratic
> forms of government as obsolete?

Many citizens of Nova Roma live in the United States, which is not
a democracy. Rather, it uses a system much like Roman tribes or
centuries to elect its president, in which voters living in sparsely
populated states have a disproportionate influence - the vote of
a random citizen of Alaska or Montana counts for more than the vote
of a random citizen of California or New York.

Nova Roma is perhaps the only nation in which efforts are made to
make a citizen's voting strength proportional to the work they have
done for the nation. I see this as a wonderful thing.

We're doing something unique and different here. Let us not throw it
away in an effort to become just like everybody else.

Vale, Octavius.

--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator

"... one of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that,
lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of
their C programs." -- Robert Firth




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Subject:	[novaroma] Gladiator article in todays AP news wire...
From:	"Marcus Cassius Julianus" <cassius622@-------->
Date:	Fri, 17 Aug 2001 14:46:31 -0000

Gladiator Schools Growing in Popularity
But Leave Your Cell Phone at Home, Please

By ROXANA M. POPESCU
.c The Associated Press

ROME (Aug. 17) - Their eyes were gleaming with fury, foreheads
glittering with sweat, lips twisted into horrible grimaces as they
circled each other.

Just as one man struck his opponent with a sword, a squealing melody
went off.

''Nero! Your cell phone,'' someone shouted.

Welcome to ancient Rome -- sort of. At this gladiator school,
businessmen, musicians and college students become gladiators,
legionnaires and Amazons twice a week, learning the history, theory
and techniques of ancient fighters.

Like their forerunners, these fighters wear armor and swing heavy
metal gladi, or swords, at each other. But unlike 2000 years ago, the
weapons are blunt and gladiators-in-training are in it as much for
the culture and camaraderie as for the combat and glory.

A 10-minute drive -- or 30-minute chariot ride -- from the Roman
Coliseum, the Scuola Gladiatori Roma is tucked away at the edge of
the city on the Appian Way, the ancient Roman highway to the south.

Students pay $100 for a two-month course of twice-weekly lessons and
fighting gear, said the school's president, Nero, who goes by Sergio
Iacomoni in the outside world.

Prices are low ''because we do it ourselves. We do it to have fun,''
Iacomoni said. ''The payment is just to keep the structure on its
feet, for rent, electricity.''

After training with a 13-pound shield and rudis, or wooden sword,
experienced gladiators are allowed to use more elaborate equipment.
And it does get elaborate. There are three types of helmets to choose
from -- crested, smooth or hooked -- spears, axes and tridents of
various shapes and sizes, armadillo-like armor, chain mail and capes.

Iacomoni said he studied Roman art and mosaics to understand how
people used to dress.

The school is part of the Gruppo Storico Romano, a cultural
association founded in 1994 which studies and recreates the lifestyle
of Romans living in the first century A.D.

Many of the gladiators are history buffs and avid readers of
historical novels, said Leonardo Lorenzini, a 23-year-old student.

''I personally love history, and role playing. Now I get to live on a
Roman stage. Too bad I don't know Latin,'' Lorenzini said.

Students assume ancient Roman names and listen to what passes for
ancient Roman music - the soundtrack from the movie ''Gladiator.''

They also don't bother denying the pull the hit film from last summer
had on them, even if there were a few stylistic inaccuracies.

''Honestly, the movie helped the school get started, because of the
influence it had on public opinion,'' Lorenzini said.

As the only school of its kind in modern Rome, Scuola Gladiatori has
gained some notoriety. The gladiators recently staged fights at Villa
Adriana, the ruins of the palace of Emperor Hadrian built outside
Rome.

This summer just seven people are taking classes - it's a down time,
with half of Rome vacationing at the beach, the students said. But
the school has trained scores of aspiring fighters, including many
foreigners.

Giuseppe Pecorelli, 51, began taking lessons shortly after Scuola
Gladiatori opened last September. He said the figure of the gladiator
is appreciated more by foreigners than Italians because the vestiges
of fascism have left Italians a bit uneasy about the idea of empire.

However, he added that Roman-style combat is not so different from
practicing self-defense sports or capoeria, a martial arts-like beach
dance from Brazil.

If it weren't for the bearded men hanging out in tunics and the huge
ballistic arrow tucked away in a corner, the Scuola Gladiatori could
almost pass for an athletic club.

Two men run around a track wearing Adidas shoes - the one fashion
anachronism permitted, to prevent slipping. Someone sips sparkling
water at a picnic table. People chat on their cell phones. A woman
stretches her leg muscles, laughing with some friends.

Still, the seven men and one woman who put on ancient garb and grunt
on a grassy field as they lunge at each other admitted their hobby is
a bit out of the ordinary.

''Most normal people think it's crazy to be a gladiator in 2001,''
said Guido Pecorelli, Giuseppe Pecorelli's 23-year-old son.

AP-NY-08-17-01 0114EDT




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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Century Allocation (was RE: Century Points)
From:	ksterne@--------
Date:	Fri, 17 Aug 2001 15:21:39 -0000

Marcus Octavius Germanicus wrote:
>>Nova Roma is perhaps the only nation in which efforts are made to
make a citizen's voting strength proportional to the work they have
done for the nation. I see this as a wonderful thing.

We're doing something unique and different here. Let us not throw it
away in an effort to become just like everybody else.<<

Salvete,

I completely agree. The ancients believed the nobility and the
wealthy were in fact superior to "regular" people. A notion not so
foreign even in more modern times. Alexander Hamilton argued as the
USA was forming that the vote should reserved to those qualifed to
make important decisions.

Here we believe that discrimination should be made based on service
to the State which is a noble ideal and still adheres to ancient
practice. It's not perfect yet, but few new things are. We can take
the time to refine it.

IMHO, the ideas of Lucius Sicinius Drusus about reducing points for
length of tenure vs. points for active participation have much merit.

Valete,
Gaius Popillius Laenas




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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Century Allocation (was RE: Century Points)
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 17 Aug 2001 15:26:56 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@n...> wrote:
> Salvete;
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: M. Apollonius Formosanus [mailto:bvm3@--------]
> > Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 3:59 PM
> >
> > I have not been an enthusiast for the century-points system, as I
think
> > that it is one aspect of NR life close to the rôle-playing gaming that
> > we claim to be above.
>
> It may seem odd that I would agree with Formosanus on this
particular point,
> but I too am not a great fan of the Century Point system (despite
the fact
> that it was my own idea); I see it as a compromise of convenience.
However,
> I am certain he would agree that assigning centuries according to the
> ancient model (i.e., according to the wealth of the individual) is
> unacceptable. Obviously some criteria for assigning centuries must be
> adopted, and at the time the best compromise seemed to be the current
> system, which encouraged participation in public life.
>
> I would be eager to hear what alternative Formosanus (or anyone else for
> that matter) may have to the current system for assigning centuries.
Some
> people seem disgruntled with the current system; anyone have any better
> ideas?
>
> Valete;
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> Consul

Salvete Consul Et Quirites,

Do not undervalue the Currant system. Some adjustments are needed, but
the basic plan is sound.

King Servius Tullius is credited with the allocation of Electoral
power based on wealth. In addition to Electoral power duties were also
assigned to the Classes based on wealth. The Census not only
determined your class, it also determined the amount of Tributum that
you had to pay.

The Roman Army Under the Kings and the Early Republic was a Militia.
Citizens provided thier own armor and weapons. Citizens who were
assigned to the First Class could afford the best Equipment, and were
assigned the most dangerous roles in the Legion. As the Classes grew
lower the equipment requirements lessened. The Lower classes were
skirmishers who retreated behind the better equipped higher classes
when the main part of the battle started.

The early Comitia Centuriata's Allocation of power was therefore based
on the service that citizens provided the state. Wealth's role in this
was a Citizen's ability to provide the services (Weapons and Taxes)
was based on a citizens wealth.

I think that we should try to emulate King Servius Tullius in basing
the Century Allocation on the services that a citizen provides to the
nation.

The first problem with the "Century Point" system is the name. Perhaps
we could change this to "Citizenship Rating" or one of our Latin
Scholars could come up with a better term. "Century Points" does sound
like something you would earn in a RPG.

Other problems are the points awarded for time are too high in
relation to the points earned for service, and the number of points
awarded to Patricians are excessive. As I understand it they were
planed to offset the Plebs power to vote in the comitia
plebis tributa, and to serve as Tribunes. The CPlT rarely meets, and
given the present ratio of Plebs to Patricians, any attempts to pass
Pleblacita would be so undemocratic that it would drive a wedge
between the orders. The Intercessio is too restricted to be
meaningful. The powers of the Plebs and the tribunes mainly exist
in theory, and the extra 5 points given to the Patricians needs to be
adjusted to reflect the current weakness of the CPlT and the powers of
the Tribunes.

WE also need to add points for working for Nova Roma at other levels
than the national government.

With some adjustments we can make the comitia centuriata into Nova
Roma's meritocracy.

Valete,
L. Sicinius Drusus,
Propraetor America Austrorientalis




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Century Allocation (was RE: Century Points)
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 17 Aug 2001 11:18:32 -0700 (PDT)

--- Maia Apollonia Pica <mjarc@-------->
wrote:
SNIP
>
> Century points give unequal rights to various
> citizens, right? The
> Constitution says that the criterion is "commitment
> to Nova Roma",
> but I don't think commitment can be measured, and,
> as Propraetor L.
> Sicinius Drusus noted, only some forms of commitment
> are rewarded
> anyway. Even if commitment could be measured
> precisely, I suppose I
> would still see a system based on it as
> undemocratic, unfair. As this
> is the 28th century AUC, shouldn't we see all
> basically undemocratic
> forms of government as obsolete? (Unless in a game,
> but NR is not a
> game. BTW, I have nothing against role-playing,
> being a gamer
> myself.)
>
> (If this post sounds impolite, that's because of my
> uncertainty with
> polite English. I am honestly trying to learn
> everybody's arguments.)
>
> Valete
>
> Maia Apollonia Pica
>
Salve Maia Apollonia,

First of all I commend you on your English skills. You
are doing an excellent job of making your views known
in a second language.

Polybios was the first to point out that Roma's
strength came from her mixed Constitution.
Democracies, Monarchies, and Aristocracies all have
advantages and disadvantages. Roma's mixed government
included elements from all three, giving her many of
the advantages of the three forms, while allowing her
to avoid some of the disadvantages of each. If we were
to follow the modern trend towards an over reliance on
Democracy, we would lose the advantages of a mixed
constitution. The Classes and the Centuries are an
important part of the balance between the three forms
of government that make of Nova Roma.

We do need to revisit how the Centuries and the
Classes are allocated. Our present system is the
result of a Dictatorial decree having the force of
law. It was implemented to handle an emergency that
occurred two years ago. Consul Vedius did an excellent
job of drafting this lex under very trying
circumstances. At the time there was no system to set
up the Centuries, so the Consul had no model to base
his law on.

Now that two years have passed it's time to look at
how the allocation has worked in practice. Since our
Consul doesn't have psychic powers, (that I'm aware
of) it would be unfair to find fault with him for not
foreseeing every possibility. We do need to make some
adjustments to the law, but we don't need to replace
what is basically a sound system.

Vale,
L. Sicinius Drusus
Propraetor America Austrorientalis

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Century Allocation (was RE: Century Points)
From:	"Maia Apollonia Pica" <mjarc@-------->
Date:	Fri, 17 Aug 2001 18:32:49 +0200

Salvete cives!

(I'm putting several replies in one mail in the hope they will reach
the list a little sooner.)

On 17 Aug 2001, at 15:26, Lucius Sicinius Drusus wrote:

> The first problem with the "Century Point" system is the name. Perhaps
> we could change this to "Citizenship Rating" or one of our Latin
> Scholars could come up with a better term. "Century Points" does sound
> like something you would earn in a RPG.

And "Citizenship Rating" sounds a little dystopian, don't you think?

> As I understand it they were
> planed to offset the Plebs power to vote in the comitia plebis
> tributa, and to serve as Tribunes. The CPlT rarely meets, and given
> the present ratio of Plebs to Patricians, any attempts to pass
> Pleblacita would be so undemocratic that it would drive a wedge
> between the orders. The Intercessio is too restricted to be
> meaningful. The powers of the Plebs and the tribunes mainly exist in
> theory, and the extra 5 points given to the Patricians needs to be
> adjusted to reflect the current weakness of the CPlT and the powers of
> the Tribunes.

I definitely need to learn more on this. However, why is it so that
attempts to pass plebiscita would be _too_ undemocratic, and the
uneven distribution of power in the centuries is _appropriately_
undemocratic?

> With some adjustments we can make the comitia centuriata into Nova
> Roma's meritocracy.

I am not convinced (or not yet?) I just don't think we can make our
adjustments fine enough. Points are discrete, our commitment,
involvement and effort aren't. Not to mention the fact that right now
there are some offices which should give points, but don't.

On 17 Aug 2001, at 15:21, Gaius Popillius Laenas wrote:

> The ancients believed the nobility and the
> wealthy were in fact superior to "regular" people. A notion not so
> foreign even in more modern times. Alexander Hamilton argued as
the
> USA was forming that the vote should reserved to those qualifed to
> make important decisions.

And he probably had some excellent criteria in mind?

> Here we believe that discrimination should be made based on service
to
> the State which is a noble ideal and still adheres to ancient
> practice. It's not perfect yet, but few new things are. We can
take
> the time to refine it.

And while we take our time, the Assembly of Centuries elects the most
important magistrates?

On 17 Aug 2001, at 9:48, Marcus Octavius Germanicus wrote:

> We should strive to be as historical as we can, except in extereme
> circumstances. Slavery, racism and sexism are abhorrent to all
> civilized people, and thus there is an overwhelming need to stand
> against them. The system of centuries is clearly not in the same
> category as those things.

Not in the same category, no, but this doesn't make it right. Of
course we _may_ believe different things are right. You will never
know what Eastern Europe was a few years back.

> Many citizens of Nova Roma live in the United States, which is not
a
> democracy. Rather, it uses a system much like Roman tribes or
> centuries to elect its president, in which voters living in
sparsely
> populated states have a disproportionate influence - the vote of a
> random citizen of Alaska or Montana counts for more than the vote
of a
> random citizen of California or New York.

And I guess this is why their most recent elections looked like they
did, with the majority of citizens cheated out of their votes? But
macro politics is probably OT for this list, so I'm not going to ask
any more questions in this direction.

> We're doing something unique and different here. Let us not throw
it
> away in an effort to become just like everybody else.

No, let's not try to become just like everybody else (though it's not
everybody; there's still China etc.) But let's not try to be
different either. Both things would be beside the point. Let's try to
do things right, regardless of what macronations do around us.

I simply still find it hard to believe _New Rome_ could be anti-
democratic in principle. It's mind-boggling. Rome has always seemed
the ideal of humanism to me, the source of some of our most cherished
values.

Valete
Maia Apollonia Pica





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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Century Allocation (was RE: Century Points)
From:	"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 17 Aug 2001 19:41:08 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "Maia Apollonia Pica" <mjarc@l...> wrote:
>
> Salvete cives!

SNIP

> > As I understand it they were
> > planed to offset the Plebs power to vote in the comitia plebis
> > tributa, and to serve as Tribunes. The CPlT rarely meets, and given
> > the present ratio of Plebs to Patricians, any attempts to pass
> > Pleblacita would be so undemocratic that it would drive a wedge
> > between the orders. The Intercessio is too restricted to be
> > meaningful. The powers of the Plebs and the tribunes mainly exist in
> > theory, and the extra 5 points given to the Patricians needs to be
> > adjusted to reflect the current weakness of the CPlT and the powers of
> > the Tribunes.
>
> I definitely need to learn more on this. However, why is it so that
> attempts to pass plebiscita would be _too_ undemocratic, and the
> uneven distribution of power in the centuries is _appropriately_
> undemocratic?
>

The Centuries are part of the Aristocratic element in our mixed
constitution. Making them more Democratic destroys the balance.

The Tribal assemblies are the Democratic element of Our Constitution.
In Antiquita the Patricians were a tiny minority, less tahn 1% of the
population, and excluding them from the Plebian assembly was not a
major break with the Democratic principal. It was rare to have a vote
so close that the Patricians would have made a differance. In Nova
Roma about 30% of the population is Patrician, and ineligable to vote
in the Plebian assembly.

This unhistoric ratio has resulted in one of the assemblies that
represent the Democratic element of our government excluding allmost a
third of our citizens. Right now the Plebian assembly is the most
undemocratic assembly in Nova Roma. Passing Pleblacita through it
would be a major violation of the Democratic element it is susposed to
represent. Pleblacita would also destroy the balance between the
elements of our government.

Vale,
L. Sicinius Drusus





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Subject:	[novaroma] Century Points
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Fri, 17 Aug 2001 22:49:14 +0200

Salvete Quirites,

I must say that the issue of the century points all of a sudden surprised me
a little, but just a little.

I don't think we can hold the Censores, nor the webmaster, responsible for
what happened as if they did it on purpose. However, since we are ploughing
through the swamp of NR's rich history, it is also hard to tell what really
°did° happen. The explanation given to us can be interpreted as a random
distribution of century points, or that some things were simply forgotten.

The key issue is, of course, if this makes all previous votes with those
wrongly assigned century points invalid. I would really not like to go
through the hassle again since April last year (and I doubt anyone would),
but it makes me think. If the century points would have been distributed
correctly, would the voting outcomes have been different? In most cases,
probably not. In some cases, perhaps.

I'm not crying "scandal!" but I think this is a painful error, that may have
occurrred due to difficult circumstances, but must be rectified as soon as
possible, and should have been rectified a long time ago.

Valete bene!
S. Apollonius Draco




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Century Points
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:04:44 -0500 (CDT)

Salve Sexte Apolloni,

> The key issue is, of course, if this makes all previous votes with those
> wrongly assigned century points invalid.

THERE WERE NO VOTES WITH WRONGLY ASSIGNED CENTURY POINTS!

--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator

"... one of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that,
lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of
their C programs." -- Robert Firth




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Century Points
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Fri, 17 Aug 2001 23:09:10 +0200

Salve Marce Octavi,

> > The key issue is, of course, if this makes all previous votes with those
> > wrongly assigned century points invalid.
>
> THERE WERE NO VOTES WITH WRONGLY ASSIGNED CENTURY POINTS!
>

*rubs his ears* So ok. When did the Comitia Centuriata last vote?

Vale bene,
Draco




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Century Points
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:22:28 -0500 (CDT)

> > THERE WERE NO VOTES WITH WRONGLY ASSIGNED CENTURY POINTS!
>
> *rubs his ears* So ok. When did the Comitia Centuriata last vote?

There is an election taking place in that Comitia right now. The last
one was in December. Citizens were placed in centuries in April 2000.
Citizens who joined after that were placed in classes 3 through 5.
There is no requirement that any adjustments be made to citizens'
century assignements before November, thus none of the assignments
were incorrect.


--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator

"... one of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that,
lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of
their C programs." -- Robert Firth




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