Forum Romanum


Subject:	[novaroma] Pennsic or what I did for NR over my vaction-long
From:	asseri@--------
Date:	Sun, 19 Aug 2001 22:47:01 EDT

Salvete! ( begging forgiveness for repeat posts)
I return wind and sunburned but oh so content! Pennsic was as always
an adventure. This time however I did more things with a Roman theme and was
very pleased to see so many more men and woman in Roman Street and Military
garments. I also had a great armload of books and four fibulia plus a few
surprises for friends here )
I did make a few contacts -- two that are locals to me and that alone was
worth the travel. Pennsic weather was often unpleasant as it was very hot and
dry most of the time. Many of the main battles were changed and thus affected
my lunch on Thursday.
But I went ahead and made it on the date and time I had announced.
While no one from Nova Roma made it. I was able to make a very good
impression on my shire. So good (if I may brag) that they would like to host
a much bigger event for Nova Roma/Roman groups next year. Let me give a
short rundown and menu.

I made a worship kits of a round tin container with a small glass
bottle of frankincense and one of myrrh with a self burning charcoal brick. I
get the tins form the photography department and the glass bottles are
recycled contact lens bottles from my office. The resins I had already from
other projects. These were to be given to any NR members that did get there.
I ended up giving them to the active pagans I know.
The menu was pretty large and I proudly say I made all most of it but
the olives-the shire donated those.
hard cooked eggs (brown)
two types of flavored soft cheeses (very well liked)
flat bread (purchased)
herbed olives
dried fruits
marinated chicken livers (I had to pan simmer those do to weather)
marinated cucumber slices (garum and balsamic vinegar- a big hit)
Baian Stew (went extremely well,),
lentils and artichokes hearts (so so)
cannelli bean fixed herb sauce (so so)
stuffed date fried in honey ( very good )
sliced cantaloupes and red grapes
I also made raisin sweetened apple juice
and mulsum to drink with it.
I opened the meal with a short explanations of NR and what we are. I
then did a small ritual of a roman oil lamp lighting to welcome the Gods to
be with us.

" I light this in the memory of those that have come before us.
I light this in honor of those that I am with.
I light this in the hope of those that will come after me."

Once the lamp was lite. I explained the food items and what was the
ingredients. After that was done I let the ravenous horde that is my beloved
shire eat. The over all reviews was good and I have many ideas for next
year. The whole idea appealed to my shire and we will be seriously
considering have an official gathering/party next year!
There was an accident with our lead cook. She fell out of her bed and
seriously dislocated her elbow. it required a hospital visit and a surgeon to
look at the x-rays. With her arm splinted from shoulder to wrist I had to do
more fill in work so I wasn't out of camp much during daylight.
I look forward to planing an another attempt for next year.

(fabia-still pending) Ancinna Drusila

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Subject:	[novaroma] The Awarding of Century Points
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Mon, 20 Aug 2001 00:18:08 -0400

Salvete cives et amici,

Our constitution states:

The exact composition of these centuries shall be determined by law passed
by the comitia centuriata, but shall be weighted in favour of those citizens
who have shown the greatest commitment to Nova Roma.

If this is so, then century points are awarded to citizens who are active
and in good standing and have taken up a responsibility to our republic.
This is great, but where do you draw a clear line on commitment itself?

The Lex Vedia Centuriata says that the fallowing positions show adequate
forms of commitment to be awarded for. Senate service, consul, censor,
praetor, aedile, quaestor, tribuni plebis, and provincial governor. Going my
this it seems like the consution should say something like this.

Centuries shall be weighted in favour of those citizens who have shown the
greatest *political* commitment to Nova Roma.

Yes, I know there are few positions that lack political commitment that are
stated in the Lex Vedia Centuriata, like being an equestrian or a citizen
for a longer amount of time. Oh, and then there is the mysterious special
appointed position. *grins* I notice that many other citizens are showing
commitment to the state in many different ways some being organising
regional gatherings, running a busy email list, or designing websites.
(wink, wink) All of these take a committed frame of mind. All of these take
an enormous amount of time. All of these are unrecognised by the Lex Vedia
Centuriata.

This is hardly fair seeing that these citizens must dedicate large portions
of their time, while the better known citizens that hold a political office
receive a large amount of points for their time. It would be nice to see
more of these dedicated Romans recognised by the Lex Vedia Centuriata.

Valete,

"Quamquam cupido sis delictum ab sui crebro sum mater ab vitualis"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus Arcticium
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia

Canada Orientalis Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/canorien

Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Pennsic or what I did for NR over my vaction-long
From:	asseri@--------
Date:	Mon, 20 Aug 2001 00:24:14 EDT

Salvete,
I forgot to add I took pictures and a friend / shire member played
harp music for us as we ate!

Drusila

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Subject:	[novaroma] E-Mail Address Change
From:	Charlie Collins <cotta@-------->
Date:	Sun, 19 Aug 2001 23:59:13 -0500

Salve,
I just changed my Primary e-mail address on Yahoogroups and got the
auto response from each group. I thought I would let everybody know at
one of the change. I am not not a new citizen(I just change addresses alot)
I got this new one to fight a lot of SPAM I was getting on my old addy
at Yahoogroups. Spamcop is great for killing spammer's I have had over
60 account's terminated over the last year and half. The address for the
service is www.spamcop.net.

Vale,
Sextus Cornelius Cotta
cotta(at)spamcop.net
Legate Major, Regio Campus(KS,NE,MO)
America Medioccendentalis Superior

--
http://www.novaroma.org
ICQ# 29580250
AIM: LegateMajor

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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Century Allocation (was RE: Century Points)
From:	"Maia Apollonia Pica" <mjarc@-------->
Date:	Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:12:42 +0200

Maia Apollonia Pica Consuli Flavio Vedio Germanico SPD.

> If you were looking
> for a utopia where everyone is 100% equal, you're in the wrong
> micronation.

I am not looking for utopias, and I am in love with much of Nova Roma
already. I was not looking for _a_ micronation either, but rather for
a Rome Reborn. Please let me decide if I want to stay.

Vale!

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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] The Awarding of Century Points
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Mon, 20 Aug 2001 08:18:04 -0400

Salvete

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Amulius Claudius Petrus [mailto:pkkt@--------]
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 12:18 AM
>
> It would be nice to see
> more of these dedicated Romans recognised by the Lex Vedia Centuriata.

I quite agree. However, even as it is currently constructed, the system
seems to be too much of an administrative burden. To add things like
participation in sodalitates, attendance at live events, etc. would turn a
burden into a nightmare of record-keeping.

I am certain there exists some other solution than the current century point
system. Something which can objectively gague participation and commitment,
but doesn't involve tons of (potentially intrusive) administrivia. I just
haven't figured out what it is yet. ;-)

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

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Subject:	[novaroma] Am I reading this right?
From:	Jeff Smith <dalmaticus@-------->
Date:	Mon, 20 Aug 2001 05:31:24 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete,

All this talk of Century points got me thinking, so I
checked mine.

I am credited with 20 points, there are some missing,
but we know that and we're working on fixing it. No
issue here.

But (the eternal "but") I noticed what I think is a
glitch in the laws. I am a former Rogator
(Vigintisexvir), for that I get no points, since the 5
points you get for doing that job go away when you
step down. But a few lines down, I see that if I run
for election and LOSE, I get 3 points for life. It
seems to me, pointwise, we do better by losing than by
serving.

Am I reading it right?

Dalmaticus

=====
JEFFREY C. SMITH
HQ USAREUR/7A
CMR 420, BOX 2839
APO AE 09063-2839

"Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies out of the trunk." -- anonymous

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Subject:	[novaroma] Pilum Articles Deadline
From:	Shane Evans <marcusafricanus@-------->
Date:	Mon, 20 Aug 2001 07:25:52 -0700 (PDT)

Ave Citizens!
The next deadline for submission of articles to the
Sodalitas Militarium's newsletter is September 1. If
you wish to submit an article concerning any aspect of
the Roman Military, please get it to me as soon as
possible.

M. Scipio Africanus

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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] The Awarding of Century Points
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Mon, 20 Aug 2001 07:26:48 -0700 (PDT)

--- Flavius Vedius Germanicus
<germanicus@--------> wrote:
> Salvete
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Amulius Claudius Petrus
> [mailto:pkkt@--------]
> > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 12:18 AM
> >
> > It would be nice to see
> > more of these dedicated Romans recognised by the
> Lex Vedia Centuriata.
>
> I quite agree. However, even as it is currently
> constructed, the system
> seems to be too much of an administrative burden. To
> add things like
> participation in sodalitates, attendance at live
> events, etc. would turn a
> burden into a nightmare of record-keeping.
>
> I am certain there exists some other solution than
> the current century point
> system. Something which can objectively gague
> participation and commitment,
> but doesn't involve tons of (potentially intrusive)
> administrivia. I just
> haven't figured out what it is yet. ;-)
>
> Valete,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> Consul
>

Salvete Quirites,

Any method we use to measure participation will either
be subjective or objective. commitment is another
matter. It's a purely subjective measurement.

Any Subjective system is going to call for an
individual to make judgments based on his viewpoint
rather than hard and fast rules, resulting in citizens
being rated differently depending on the person doing
the rating. One person might view participation in the
Religio as being the important area, while another may
consider serving in an office to be more important.

There is also the problem of personal feelings
clouding a subjective judgment. Some of our citizens
simply do not like each other. Policitcal viewpoints
can also enter into a subjective judgment.

Because of these problems, I think we will be better
off if we avoid using any subjective measurements like
"commitment" or a subjective system.

This leaves us with an objective system. An Objective
system relies on quanitive measurements, so any
objective system will entail record keeping. The
amount of record keeping depends on how broad a base
we wish to use. A Narrow selection of criteria makes
the record keeping easier than a broad based system.

I Prefer that we have a broad base, that is we measure
participation in many areas. This would place an undue
burden on the Censors however. The Answer seems to
making others responsible for maintaining portions of
the database. For example if we are going to reward
citizens for running for office, and for holding
elected offices, then the Rogators should be held
responsible for entering this data after each
election.

Automation is another way of decreasing the
administrative workload. My understanding is that
Marcus Octavius is already doing this. The awarding of
points for time served is automatically computed now.
All that is needed is for the Censors to enter the
date of citizenship when a new citizen's application
is approved. Much of the present nightmare is getting
the old data transfered into the new automated
database, and this will not be an ongoing problem.
Transferring a database is a major undertaking,
maintaining it is far easier after the transfer.

The Century point system is a very objective means of
measuring participation. Any objective system that
replaced it would mirror it in many respects, and it
might amount to nothing more than a modified Century
point system with a new name. The present system has
the advantage of having been used for two years, so we
already know where it's weaknesses are. A new system
will have to be in place for a time before we discover
it's weaknesses. I Think it be best if we concentrated
on fixing the shortcomings of the present system,
rather than looking for a new system.

Valete,
L. Sicinius Drusus

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Am I reading this right?
From:	labienus@--------
Date:	Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:27:41 US/Central

Salve Dalmatice

> But (the eternal "but") I noticed what I think is a
> glitch in the laws. I am a former Rogator
> (Vigintisexvir), for that I get no points, since the 5
> points you get for doing that job go away when you
> step down. But a few lines down, I see that if I run
> for election and LOSE, I get 3 points for life. It
> seems to me, pointwise, we do better by losing than by
> serving.

According to the second Lex Iunia Centuriata, which amends Lex Vedia
Centuriata, Vigintisexviri are given 10 points for current service, and 5
points for past service.

Vale
T Labienus Fortunatus

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Am I reading this right?
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Mon, 20 Aug 2001 09:32:56 -0500 (CDT)

Salve Dalmatice,

> But (the eternal "but") I noticed what I think is a
> glitch in the laws. I am a former Rogator
> (Vigintisexvir), for that I get no points, since the 5
> points you get for doing that job go away when you
> step down.

As the law is currently written, those points do go away... this should
be changed. There was a proposal to do so last year, but it wasn't placed
on the mailing list at the time required to be considered in the
December election. Hopefully we'll soon see some revisions to the
events that merit points.

Vale, Octavius.

--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator

"... one of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that,
lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of
their C programs." -- Robert Firth

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Subject:	[novaroma] Ohio Roman Day Feast Menu
From:	Shane Evans <marcusafricanus@-------->
Date:	Mon, 20 Aug 2001 08:41:50 -0700 (PDT)

Here is the menu for the feast we will be having in
Columbus, Ohio after the Roman Day event. This is a
RSVP only dinner, and the cover charge will be $15.00.
I have tasted the cook's tallents, and I strongly
anyone planning to attend the event to stick around
for the dinner. For RSVP, contact Ancinna Drusila
(Asseri@--------) before October first.

Menu

hard cooked eggs (brown)
two types of flavored soft cheeses
flat bread
herbed olives
dried fruits
marinated chicken
marinated cucumber slices (garum and balsamic vinegar)

Baian Stew (Simply to die for)
lentils and artichokes hearts
cannelli bean fixed herb sauce
stuffed date fried in honey
sliced cantaloupes and red grapes
raisin sweetened apple juice and grape juice (no
alchohol allowed there)

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: The Awarding of Century Points
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Mon, 20 Aug 2001 12:34:38 -0400

Salve Consul Flavius Vedius Germanicus,

Seeing that our century point system is being automated much weight will be
taken off censors. I can see how crediting other citizens for there
non-political involvement would place tons of work again on our censors. Why
don't we let the good and dedicated citizen do half the work? This could be
in the a simple application form. For example, I design and maintain a
website for the provincia Canada Oreientalis and Gens Claudia. If I wanted
century points to be awarded for this task I would have to fill out a
application form at NovaRoma.org. From here the censors could confirm my
involvement by the information I presented in my application form. Then my
due amount of century points could be awarded.

The only problem is that the Lex Vedia Centuriata does not notice my
service. This obviously would have to be changed for any such system could
be implemented. Although with a few scribes and the censors this extra task
should not be much of a burden.

Vale,

"Quamquam cupido sis delictum ab sui crebro sum mater ab vitualis"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia

Canada Orientalis Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/canorien

Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Amulius Claudius Petrus [mailto:pkkt@--------]
>> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 12:18 AM
>>
>> It would be nice to see
>> more of these dedicated Romans recognised by the Lex Vedia Centuriata.

>Flavius Vedius Germanicus at germanicus@-------- wrote:
>
> I quite agree. However, even as it is currently constructed, the system
> seems to be too much of an administrative burden. To add things like
> participation in sodalitates, attendance at live events, etc. would turn a
> burden into a nightmare of record-keeping.
>
> I am certain there exists some other solution than the current century point
> system. Something which can objectively gague participation and commitment,
> but doesn't involve tons of (potentially intrusive) administrivia. I just
> haven't figured out what it is yet. ;-)

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Subject:	[novaroma] PROPRAETORIS EDICTUM ON WEBSITE PROVINCIAE GALLIAE
From:	=?iso-8859-1?B?WWFubiBRdely6Q==?= <yquere@-------->
Date:	Mon, 20 Aug 2001 20:36:52 +0200

IANUS QUERIUS ARMORICUS LUTECIO, PROPRAETOR GALLIAE, EX AUTORITATE SUA.

EDICTUM PROPRAETORIS GALLIAE for the RE - creation of a NEW Gaul website.
As a first step towards making Provincia Gallia a wealthy and organized province, it was decided to create a website dedicated to the Province and linked with the main site of Nova Roma as well as other provincial sites with their permission.
Our former webmaster Quintus Apollonius Flaccus having resigned citizenship, the site and its contents vanished.

This site was mainly aiming at :
I.- Providing interest towards Nova Roma for Gaul web-visitors and would-be Nova Roman citizens.
II.- Presenting Provincia Gallia History from early ages to nowadays in connection with Roman History.
III.- Introducing Gaul citizens of the Province
IV.- Making contact easier through a forum of discussion, called "NR Gallia Taverna".
V.-This site will be multi-lingual : Deutsh, French and English

Therefore AND TO RECREATE THE SITE, I appoint Gaius Apollonius Corvus, Gaul Citizen of Nova Roma, as Gallus Retiarus (id est webmaster of the Gaul net, for a retiarus is a master at the net), in order to build and administrate this site in cooperation with the Propraetor and the Legati Galliae Australis et Borealis. He will have to :
A.- find a hosting provider,
B.- maintain and update the informations on the site, in cooperation with other provincial officials
C.- make the site referenced, so that it can be found and viewed the most widely possible
D.- The URL of the site should be www.gallia.novaroma.org

In order to avoid any intempestive disappearance of the site and its contents due to citizenship resignation, I hereby ask the new Gallus Retiarus to pronounce an Oath of Office before Provincia Gallia and Nova Roma.

FIAT !

I. Querius Armoricus Lutecio
Propraetor Provinciae Galliae

Facto in Lutecia (20-08-2001)

--------FRENCH TRANSLATION - TRADUCTION RANCAISE--------

EDICTUM PROPRAETORIS GALLIAE portant RE - cr�ation d'un NOUVEAU site web gaulois.

Comme premier pas vers une Province de Gaule prosp�re et organis�e, il avait �t� d�cid� de cr�er un site d�di� � la Province et reli� au site principal de Nova Roma ainsi qu'au autres sites provinciaux sous r�serve de leur autorisation.
Le pr�c�dent webmaster Quintus Apollonius Flaccus ayant abandonn� sa citoyennet�, le site et l'ensemble de son contenu ont disparu.

Ce site avait pour objectifs principaux:
I.- De susciter l'int�r�t pour Nova Roma chez des visiteurs du net peut-�tre futurs citoyens de Nova Roma.
II.- De pr�senter l'Histoire de la Province de Gaule � travers les �ges jusqu'� nos jours en lien avec l'Histoire Romaine.
III.- Pr�senter les citoyens gaulois
IV.- Rendre les contacts plus ais�s via un forum de discussion baptis� "NR Gallia Taverna"
V.- Ce site sera multi-lingue: N�erlandais, Fran�ais et Anglais

Pour ce faire ET AFIN DE RECREER CE SITE, je nomme Gaius Apollonius Corvus, citoyen gaulois de Nova Roma au poste de Gaulus Retiarus (Retiaire gaulois, c'est � dire webmaster du net gaulois, car c'est l� l'arme du r�tiaire) afin de construire et d'administrer ce site en collaboration avec le Propraetor et les Legati Galliae Australis et Borealis. Il aura en charge de :
A.- trouver un "provider" pour accueillir le site
B.- maintenir et tenir � jour les informations du site avec les autres officiels de la Province
C.- faire r�f�rencer le site, de fa�on � ce qu'il soit possible de le trouver et d'y acc�der le plus largement possible
D. - Le lien URL du site devra �tre www.gallia.novaroma.org

Afin d'�viter toute disparition intempestive du site li�e � un abandon de citoyennet�, je demande par le pr�sent Edit au nouveau Gallus Retiarus de prononcer son Voeu de Prise de fonction devant la Province de Gaule et devant Nova Roma.

FIAT !

I. Querius Armoricus Lutecio
Propraetor Provinciae Galliae

Facto in Lutecia (20-08-2001)

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: [NRGallia_BelgicaBataviaD] PROPRAETORIS EDICTUM ON WEBSITE PROVINCIAE GALLIAE
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Mon, 20 Aug 2001 21:19:08 +0200

Salvete, Quirites,

As requested by my propraetor, here follows the Dutch translation of his Edictum.

--------DUTCH TRANSLATION - NEDERLANDSE VERTALING--------

IANUS QUERIUS ARMORICUS LUTECIO, PROPRAETOR GALLIAE, EX AUTORITATE SUA.

EDICTUM PROPRAETORIS GALLIAE voor de HER - creatie van een NIEUWE Gallische website
Als een eerste stap in de richting van Gallia een een provincie te maken met meer organisatie en weelde, werd er besloten een website te cre�ren, opgedragen aan de provincie, en gelinkt aan de hoofdsite van Nova Roma, alsook aan de andere provinciale sites, met hun toestemming.
Onze vorige webmaster, Quintus Apollonius Flaccus, heeft zijn burgerschap opgezegd, en met hem verdween de site.

De site was hoofdzakelijk bedoeld om:
I - Interesse op te wekken voor zowel Nova Roma als Gallia voor aspirant-burgers of toevallige bezoekers.
II - De geschiedenis van Gallia voor te stellen in verband met de Romeinse geschiedenis
III - Gallische burgers bekend maken met hun provincie
IV - Contact vergemakkelijken, door middel van de "NR Gallia Taverna"
V - Deze site zal multilinguaal zijn: Frans, Engels, Duits en Nederlands

Om deze redenen, en om de SITE TE HERLEVEN, stel ik Gaius Apollonius Corvus, Gallisch burger van Nova Roma aan als Gallius Retiarus (dat is de webmaster van het Gallische net, dus) om een website te bouwen en te beheren, in samenwerking met de Propraetor, en de Legati Galliae Australis Borealisque. Zijn taken:
A - Een provider vinden.
B - De site updaten en onderhouden met informatie, in samenwerking met de andere provinciale officials.
C - De site bekend maken, zodat zij kan gevonden worden, en geviewd, op alle mogelijke manieren.
D - De URL zou moeten zijn: www.gallia.novaroma.org

Met het oog op een eventuele ongelukkige verdwijning van de site of haar inhoud ten gevolge van een opzegging van burgerschap vraag ik aan de nieuwe webmaster een Eed van Trouw te zweren aan de Provincie Gallia en Nova Roma.
FIAT !

I. Querius Armoricus Lutecio
Propraetor Provinciae Galliae

Facto in Lutecia (20-08-2001)

EDICTUM PROPRAETORIS GALLIAE portant RE - cr�ation d'un NOUVEAU site web gaulois.

Comme premier pas vers une Province de Gaule prosp�re et organis�e, il avait �t� d�cid� de cr�er un site d�di� � la Province et reli� au site principal de Nova Roma ainsi qu'au autres sites provinciaux sous r�serve de leur autorisation.
Le pr�c�dent webmaster Quintus Apollonius Flaccus ayant abandonn� sa citoyennet�, le site et l'ensemble de son contenu ont disparu.

Ce site avait pour objectifs principaux:
I.- De susciter l'int�r�t pour Nova Roma chez des visiteurs du net peut-�tre futurs citoyens de Nova Roma.
II.- De pr�senter l'Histoire de la Province de Gaule � travers les �ges jusqu'� nos jours en lien avec l'Histoire Romaine.
III.- Pr�senter les citoyens gaulois
IV.- Rendre les contacts plus ais�s via un forum de discussion baptis� "NR Gallia Taverna"
V.- Ce site sera multi-lingue: N�erlandais, Fran�ais et Anglais

Pour ce faire ET AFIN DE RECREER CE SITE, je nomme Gaius Apollonius Corvus, citoyen gaulois de Nova Roma au poste de Gaulus Retiarus (Retiaire gaulois, c'est � dire webmaster du net gaulois, car c'est l� l'arme du r�tiaire) afin de construire et d'administrer ce site en collaboration avec le Propraetor et les Legati Galliae Australis et Borealis. Il aura en charge de :
A.- trouver un "provider" pour accueillir le site
B.- maintenir et tenir � jour les informations du site avec les autres officiels de la Province
C.- faire r�f�rencer le site, de fa�on � ce qu'il soit possible de le trouver et d'y acc�der le plus largement possible
D. - Le lien URL du site devra �tre www.gallia.novaroma.org

Afin d'�viter toute disparition intempestive du site li�e � un abandon de citoyennet�, je demande par le pr�sent Edit au nouveau Gallus Retiarus de prononcer son Voeu de Prise de fonction devant la Province de Gaule et devant Nova Roma.

FIAT !

I. Querius Armoricus Lutecio
Propraetor Provinciae Galliae

Facto in Lutecia (20-08-2001)


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Ohio Roman Day Feast Menu
From:	PompeiaAntoniaCaesar <europamoon7@-------->
Date:	Mon, 20 Aug 2001 12:54:57 -0700 (PDT)

Salve,

I am hosting another NR meeting in October and was
contemplating on the menu. I have a couple of
questions if you would be so kind to answer. Did the
Romans use licorice, ginger or raisins? There is a
dessert I want to make with raisins and a drink I
would like to make with licorice tea and ginger. I
would appreciate any comments on this. Also what is a
good resource book for this?

Vale,

Pompeia Antonia Caesar

--- Shane Evans <marcusafricanus@--------> wrote:
> Here is the menu for the feast we will be having in
> Columbus, Ohio after the Roman Day event. This is a
> RSVP only dinner, and the cover charge will be
> $15.00.
> I have tasted the cook's tallents, and I strongly
> anyone planning to attend the event to stick around
> for the dinner. For RSVP, contact Ancinna Drusila
> (Asseri@--------) before October first.
>
> Menu
>
> hard cooked eggs (brown)
> two types of flavored soft cheeses
> flat bread
> herbed olives
> dried fruits
> marinated chicken
> marinated cucumber slices (garum and balsamic
> vinegar)
>
> Baian Stew (Simply to die for)
> lentils and artichokes hearts
> cannelli bean fixed herb sauce
> stuffed date fried in honey
> sliced cantaloupes and red grapes
> raisin sweetened apple juice and grape juice (no
> alchohol allowed there)
>
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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Century Points
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:05:20 -0500 (CDT)

Salvete Omnes,

Four days ago, Marcus Apollonius Formosanus seized upon an article
I had written regarding the incompleteness of data comprising
citizens' century points, and chose to interpret it in the worst
possible manner. Without making any effort whatsoever to discern
the truth of the matter, he posted a series of statements
-not "questions"- accusing the censores of lawbreaking.
(Message #35273).

When I replied to his falsehoods and suggested that his motivation
for posting such was due to personal vendetta, he then attempted
to portray himself as an innocent victim - when in fact he was the
one who had started this fight, he was the one who had slandered
three hard-working magistrates, and he was the one who had made
false statements without a shred of evidence and without making
any attempts to gather facts.

In his latest message, Formosanus continues to try to downplay
his own role in the current conflict. He continues to deny that
his baseless accusation was motivated by his dislike for myself
and the Censores, in spite of his history of knee-jerk opposition
to nearly every activity of the Senate and magistrates of Nova Roma.

Worst of all, he presents a hugely distorted retelling of the
events of the past few days, in an attempt to portray himself as
the victim of a vendetta. This is patently absurd, as it is
clear for all to see, beginning with his false accusations in
message #35273, that he is the aggressor and that I am merely
defending myself and my friends from his baseless and false
accusation.

Do not be fooled by his lies, Citizens. Please go and reread
Formosanus' original accusation. He has tried to describe it
as "understated" and "humorous" and as a set of "questions".
None of this is true. It was a vile and slanderous series of
accusations of official malfeasance, launched upon myself and the
Censores without provocation, motivated solely by the mutual
dislike between Formosanus and ourselves. He goes to considerable
lengths below to defend his mistaken assumptions; yet if he
had simply *asked* whether the century assignments had been
made with inaccurate data, I could have cleared up his
misconception before he made a public spectacle of it.

Instead of asking, instead of making efforts to determine the
facts of the situation, he posted a series of false accusations.
This gross irresponsibility is conduct unbefitting a Magistrate
of Nova Roma.

Citizens, I apologize for the length of this response, but I cannot
let his false accusations and his distortions stand without
challenge.

> RESPONDEO: First of all, mi Octavi, I have assumed that
> *you* have been acting constitutionally and legally with
> respect to acting only under the direction of the censores
> in regard to the maintenance of the database. My worries
> were about what the censores might have left undone, and
> were not directed at you. If I failed to make that clear
> enough (since I took it as too obvious to stress), I
> apologise for any unintended besmirching of your honour.

You posted in direct response to an article of mine, in which I described
a process that I was obviously intimately involved with, a series of
accusations of lawbreaking. It certainly wasn't "obvious" that I
was not your target - and, frankly, I don't care. Whether your attack
was directed at me or at my friends and colleagues Lucius Equitius
Cincinnatus and Lucius Cornelius Sulla matters little - you slandered
all of us with your false accusation.

I would be content to accept the apology you offered for the
false accusation, were it not for your continued efforts to downplay
the fact that you were the initial aggressor, and to ascribe to me
motives of malice and vendetta, when I am simply defending myself
and my friends from a false accusation.

> I asked my question about your public words equally
> publically, and you have had a chance to reply equally
> publically.

You were making an accusation. The "questions" in your original message
were thinly-veiled accusations. Additionally, you made false and
accusatory statements that were not questions at all:

>>> In other words:
>>> 1) The laws for the assignment of century points have been simply and
>>> silently neglected and ignored.

>>> 2) Our century assignments in past balloting have apparently been
>>> inaccurately made, with possible affects on voting outcomes.

>>> 3) What was announced to us as the way we were being evaluated for the
>>> centureis was in fact a falsehood, and we were not told until now.
>>> "Never" would seem to be a long time if it is from the beginning of the
>>> system.

> This was never a private matter that I should
> deal with behind the scenes, but one that is of immense
> importance to everyone here in NR. I see no reason why I
> should have done differently.

Do you truly see nothing wrong with making false accusations of lawbreaking
without first making any efforts to determine the facts?

You could have simply mailed me and asked for clarification. You could
have simply asked (publicly or privately) whether the inaccuracies had
been present when the centuries were allocated, and waited for my reply.
If my reply was unsatisfactory (or if I simply ignored you), then perhaps
your hostile tone would have been justified.

But instead, you launched an assault *before* you knew the facts.

> Furthermore, I immediately assumed that you were telling
> the truth in your reply, and I expressed my belief in your
> words and thanked you for them. What I got in reply was the
> rabidity that follows.

Rabidity? All I did was speculate that your false accusation was
malicious in intent - and I still believe this to be true. You
hold the elected magistrates of Nova Roma in contempt, which you have
demonstrated on this list time and time again, and I do not believe
you to be above making false accusations when you think there is
political capital to be gained from doing so.

> RESPONDEO: Octavi, Octavi, the humour was in the
> *understatement* with which I characterised the past
> conflicts between a certain censor and myself. If you
> didn't get it, you didn't get it, but I thought that it
> might have raised a little smile. My whole intent thereby
> was to milden my words and decrease tensions, and maybe
> draw us together a little bit in thinking of the silly
> aspect of our conflicts.

Your message was extremely hostile and accusatory. Placing a rather
weak joke in the middle of it does nothing to blunt its offensiveness.
When attacked without provocation and accused of lawbreaking, I'm not
likely to appreciate little jokes.

> RESPONDEO: I took your own word at its face value.

You chose one of many possible interpretations, and made false
accusations based upon it, without any efforts to learn the facts.

> RESPONDEO: If I did not believe that there really might be
> a problem, why would I attack it just to make myself look
> silly?

If you genuinely believed what you were writing in your original
accusation, then it is because your perceptions of the actions of
the Censores and myself are tainted because of our past conflicts,
and you automatically interpret everything in the worst possible
manner. The other possibility is that you knew all along that there
had been no wrongdoing, but thought you could win some political
capital by pretending to be a righter of wrongs and champion of
the downtrodden. I'll likely never know which of these is true.

> I immediately admitted everyone was innocent as
> soon as you explained. I did not carry on further
> discussion of that point or contest the issue, but have
> only reacted to your vendetta against me.

And I am reacting to *your* vendetta against me. It was you who made
the false accusations, while I am merely defending myself and my
colleagues.

> I am sure that it is obvious that you reacted very disproprotionately and
> with more emotion than I ever put into my public inquiry.

Your public accusation, you mean. There was more accusation than
inquiry in your initial message.

Perhaps I do tend to get emotional when I am falsely accused of wrongdoing
by someone who has made no efforts to determine the facts in question,
and who has consistently been a thorn in the side of myself and my
friends for the past year. Who wouldn't?

As for "disproportionate"... my initial response to you was a simple
refutation of your false accusations, with a single line about how
you "dominated conversation for months on this list with your vendetta".
That caused you to launch into another tirade about "prejudiced and
unfair legislation...festering in our Tabularium and undermining any
claim to be a nation of justice". You are a master of disproportionate
and rabid reaction.

> Idealism is not about vendettas, but it is about increasing
> social justice. And it has a special strength all its own.
> Don't underestimate it. It can suffer its share of defeats
> or more, and still go on to win out.

And don't underestimate mine. I, and the Senate, and the Founders,
are as committed to our cause of recreating a Roman Republican system
as closely as possible, as you are to your cause of undermining it.

> RESPONDEO: I posted because I had good reason to think
> there was a serious problem in our Respublica. If you think
> that you are going to make either yourself or the censors
> immune to pointed inquiry and public scrutiny in the
> carrying out of your jobs by such outbursts of gross and
> unpleasant over reaction as soon as we let out a peep, then
> you have got another think coming.

Certainly I do not think we are above inquiry, and I welcome such
inquiry from reasonable persons who are more interested in improving
the system than in pursuing old vendettas. That does not mean I
welcome false accusations and unprovoked attacks from someone who
has made it his mission to harass this organization.

> RESPONDEO: You do not paint a very favourable picture of
> me, do you? It seems to me to be motivated by a very great
> and persistent personal dislike that has lasted over many
> months indeed since it had any pretext to express itself.
> Sounds like a vendetta against me, in fact.

It is motivated by your actions. I was content to let what was in
the past remain there - after all, the people had spoken in
December and May, and your cause was finished. I had not had
any communication with you in several months, until your recent
unprovoked attack, followed by your ridiculous attempts to
portray the victim of your attack as the one pursuing a vendetta.

> More unfounded name-calling. It seems that everyone who
> disagrees with you on any issue whatsoever is "right-wing"
> or "authoritarian" or "ultra right-wing".
>
> RESPONDEO: I think that people who are against democracy
> are both in everday speech and in political science are
> indeed named in that manner.

Who here is "against democracy"? It seems you apply that label to
everyone who is not 100% in favor of a pure Athenian-style democracy;
that everyone who sees any merit in a Republic is an "authoritarian".

>> Where are these imaginary right-wing authoritarians you
>> keep babbling about?
>
> Vedius: "It is not Nova Roma's mission to
> eliminate "undemocratic forms of government as obsolete".
> It is to recreate Roman society as it was historically
> known, as accurately as practical. If you were looking for
> a utopia where everyone is 100% equal, you're in the wrong
> micronation."

I see no "right-wing" person here. "right-wing" and "left-wing"
describe extremes, and Vedius' statement (which I agree with
completely) is moderate and centrist. The "right-wing" position
is not republicanism, it's fascism.

> RESPONDEO: If you described the state of political affairs
> in Nova Roma as a nation to some of your friends in the
> ACLU, disguising the names and the fact that it was a
> micronation, how many of said friends would approve?

First of all, those organizations are loose affiliations of persons
who have some political and civil liberties goals in commons, not
a legion of goose-steppers who think exactly alike. No doubt there
are some members who think absolutely everything must be decided
purely democratically; no doubt there are others who think a
Republican system is best.

I suspect most of them would not object to a private organization
that people join voluntarily having a system whereby persons who
have contributed much over the years have more voting power than
newcomers.

You *do* know that the ACLU and EFF are not themselves democracies,
and that the general membership does not elect the leadership?
They'd have to simultaneously object to their own structure in order
to criticize Nova Roma's. Will you now begin to work against
those non-democratic organizations?

> think that you have by some mental mechanisms failed to
> judge things in NR by the same criteria you would use off
> net or in some other associations you might belong to.

No. I see nothing wrong with meritocracy, or with Rome's combined
democratic-monarchic-oligarchic Republic. I find it an intriguing
and worthy system.

> I really wish that you would sit down with yourself and try
> to reconcile the diametrically opposed political
> philosophies you are espousing in different places.

Spare me your pop psychology. I have espoused no contradictory
philosophies.

> And obviously you have concocted your own Big
> Lie about me, by consistently trying to portray me as some
> kind of fanatic demagogue simply because I have a moral and
> social concern about several issues that I refuse to keep
> conveniently silent about.

Winston Churchill wrote that "A fanatic is one who cannot change his
mind and won't change the subject", and I think this describes you
perfectly. All of your efforts are directed toward keeping alive
the subject of Marius (in spite of Marius having himself asked you
to stop, and having resigned as a direct result of your actions),
and of harassing everyone who opposed you at that time. With you,
it's more than just not keeping "conveniently silent"; it's a case
of never being able to move on.

> I am a person who believes that human beings should be
> politically equal and free. I believe that that should
> apply to all nations and all voluntary associations.

So, is there no place for persons desiring an experiment in
Republican government to voluntarily associate? You will work to
subvert every model of organization that is not in complete alignment
with your views? You are determined that no one, anywhere, has
any right to implement any system that differs from your ideal?

Does that not make you an autocrat?

Nova Roma is a voluntary organization, and we have the right to
use a system of organization styled on the Roman government. That's
in our Constitution, and it was one of the founding principles of
this organization.

Yet you, with your hatred of every model of government other than
pure democracy, are working to destroy our great experiment.

> I think that hundreds of millions of
> people in the countries where Nova Roma cives live in their
> macronations in North and South America, and Europe
> recognise these values and do not consider them one bit
> fanatical or extreme.

And hundreds of millions of people think a Republican system of
government is not extreme or "ultra right-wing", and
would not appreciate your attempts to convert every system in
the world to match your own ideals.

> Octavi, we have in the past corresponded to try to come to
> a more amicable relationship.

At the time, I thought that we were much alike, in spite of
our differences. We both have strong opinions on the subject
of individual liberties. But soon after our private exchanges,
I realized that you are a fanatic, by Mr. Churchill's definition.

A "fanatic" is not necessarily someone whose opinions are at an
extreme fringe of human opinion. A fanatic can also be someone
whose opinions are reasonable, but who advocates those opinions
with excessive zeal, and who is incapable of tolerating any
dissent.

Your words have shown that you are a fanatic. I do not find your
belief in pure democracy as the best form of government to be
unreasonable, nor your opinions on various human rights. But your
absolute inflexibility on these issues, and your obsessive behavior,
makes you a fanatic.

Earlier you wrote:

> I believe that that should
> apply to all nations and all voluntary associations.

And, with that justification, you attempt to force your opinions on
all of us. Pure democracy is a good, sane, and reasonable system -
I don't disagree with that. Yet it is not the *only* good, sane
and reasonable system. As a fanatic, you cannot abide the existence
of anything else, even in an organization which people join
voluntarily, which has a Republican Roman system of government
as one of the pillars it is built upon.

Similarly, you fought long and hard about the gender/names issue,
forcing all of us to give a trivial matter far more attention than
it deserved. I don't consider your opinion on the subject of
gender and names unreasonable; but I abhor your fanaticism in
pursuing it to such an extent, when even the citizen most affected
by it did not wish you to do so, and ultimately resigned as a
result of your actions. You even showed that you are willing
to discard your supposed democratic ideals, when you stated that
"human rights" issues cannot be decided democratically.

Your misuse of such terms as "ultra right-wing" to describe
moderate persons who are republican, not fascist, marks you as
a fanatic. When, in response to my request that you identify
the right-wingers, you quoted Vedius' statement about Nova Roma's
mission not being the elimination of undemocratic government,
you revealed yourself to be a fanatic. Do you seriously believe
that that was any kind of a valid response? Does a mere statement
that spreading democracy is "not our mission" make someone a
"right-winger"? You apply extremist labels to people who are
not extremist, because you are a fanatic.

And now, your despair over not getting your way has manifested
itself in the accusation you made. If you truly had any interest
in ensuring that allocation had not been done improperly, you could
have merely asked for clarification. Instead, you posted a series
of false and highly inflammatory statements; and then, when I
called into question your motive for doing so, attempted to
portray yourself as the victim of vendetta.

It won't work, Formosane. You cannot fool the people that
easily. We all know what really happened these past four days,
and why you did it.

Vale, Octavius.

---
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator

"... one of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that,
lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of
their C programs." -- Robert Firth

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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Re: The Awarding of Century Points
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Mon, 20 Aug 2001 17:03:20 -0400

Salve

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Amulius Claudius Petrus [mailto:pkkt@--------]
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 12:35 PM
>
> Seeing that our century point system is being automated much weight will
be
> taken off censors.

We have two basic problems when it comes to the century point system. The
first is ensuring that past actions and activities are accurately reflected
in the current century point totals. This is going to entail a TON of work
trolling through the email list archives, and is quite a daunting task.
Automating the system will do little to alleviate that. The second is
ensuring that the totals going forward are correctly maintained; I'm not
convinced that mere automation will solve the problem; more on that below.

> I can see how crediting other citizens for there
> non-political involvement would place tons of work again on our censors.
Why
> don't we let the good and dedicated citizen do half the work? This could
be
> in the a simple application form.

If I read you correctly, you're suggesting a form on the website where
Citizens can apply for points based on fulfilling the criteria listed in the
various leges. I'm wondering how this differs from the present system, where
Citizens are currently able to simply send an email to the Censors and
request such an update. Although perhaps it might help somewhat if there was
some sort of check-box system on the form...

> For example, I design and maintain a
> website for the provincia Canada Oreientalis and Gens Claudia. If I wanted
> century points to be awarded for this task I would have to fill out a
> application form at NovaRoma.org. From here the censors could confirm my
> involvement by the information I presented in my application form. Then my
> due amount of century points could be awarded.

And herein lies the main problem. You may have a point that putting the
burden on the Citizens to essentially remind the Censors that they're due
points might help the system (certainly, it would mean that the Censors
wouldn't have to keep such a close eye on the comings and goings of
magistrates and so on). However, confirmation of the application would still
have to be made, and thus the burden on the Censors (and/or their appointed
scriba). Such a thing could of course never be done on the honor system, and
the Censors would be back to having to go through the list archives or
various websites to confirm information.

Plus there is the problem that some things just couldn't be verified. If I
tell the Censors I just handed out 1,000 Nova Roma flyers and can I please
have my 10 Century Points, how are they to verify that I actually earned the
reward? There are unfortunately some people for whom the accumulation of
Century Points is an unhealthy obsession and an end unto itself. Any system
that isn't verifiable (or objective) is open to abuse.

> The only problem is that the Lex Vedia Centuriata does not notice my
> service.

While I might be in favor of expanding the list of services for which
century points might be awarded, we run into two problems with the scenario
you describe. First, not all websites are alike, and it is possible to toss
one up for no investment of money and a miniscule investment of time. Should
one page on a free server with a couple of links and copy-and-pasted
graphics equal the efforts of someone who lovingly spends hours carefully
crafting a gens web page and stocking it with information? Who decides what
is and is not worthy of getting more points for a "good" website and fewer
for a "crappy" website? The same could be said for many other potential
activities to be added to the list It's a system rife with opportunities for
misuse and hard feelings.

Too, we will soon enter a phase when folks are doing all sorts of services
for the Republic, both on-line and in the real world. Are we to quantify
each and every one of them separately? Is the Lex Vedia Centuriata to be the
subject of never-ending and regular revision, because someone has thought of
something new they could do in service to Nova Roma? I can see that actually
stifling creativity and initiative, while people wait for their new idea of,
say, handing out NR flyers on street corners to be included in the list of
rewarded activities, so they can get points for it.

> This obviously would have to be changed for any such system could
> be implemented. Although with a few scribes and the censors this extra
task
> should not be much of a burden.

The Censors can appoint such scribes right now if they want to. As I
indicated there are problems other than mere workload that would accompany a
major expansion of the list of rewarded activities. I agree that
non-political activities should be recognized, but I would like to hear how
it could be done without exaccerbating the problems the current system
already has and creating new ones.

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

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Subject:	[novaroma] Elections
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Mon, 20 Aug 2001 15:08:59 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete Quirites,

Well I see that Marcus Apollonius has resumed being an
active poster, complete with making accusations with
little or no evidence, and dragging up the past.

Well it is late August, and for Americans that is the
traditional time to kick off the fall campaign for
office. I guess expatriate Americans can't get over
the habits they learned before leaving the States.

Marcus Apollonius, I'll ask you publicly, what office
are you running for? Do you intend to use these
tactics for the next four months?

Valete,
L. Sicinius Drusus

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Am I reading this right?
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?M=20Arminius=20Maior?= <marminius@-------->
Date:	Mon, 20 Aug 2001 19:30:27 -0300 (ART)

--- labienus@-------- escreveu: > Salve Dalmatice
>
> According to the second Lex Iunia Centuriata, which
> amends Lex Vedia
> Centuriata, Vigintisexviri are given 10 points for
> current service, and 5
> points for past service.
>
> Vale
> T Labienus Fortunatus

Salvete Cives, Salve Labieni

I want use this oportinity to solve some doubts about
cntury points (CPs).
According to my interpretation of the Lex Vedia
Apparitoria and the Leges Centuriatas:

Scriba of a Censor, Praetor, Aedile, and Assensi of a
Consul, receive 5 CPs.

Scriba of a Gubernator
- is one of the Decuria Scribae, receives 5 CPs.

Legate of a Gubernator
- isnt one of the Apparitores, doesnt receive CPs.
(not clear to me, perhaps can be considered as a
scriba)

Scriba of a Vigintisexviri (of the Curatores or
Rogatores)
- isnt a scriba of a Magistrate, doesnt receive CPs.
(not clear to me, perhaps the Vigitisexviri can be
considered minor Magistrates)

Lictor of a Magistrate (Consul, Praetor, Dictator,
Interrex)
- is one of the Decuria Lictores, receives 5 CPs.

Lictor of a Gubernator
- is one of the Decuria Lictores, receives 5 CPs.
(not clear to me, because isnt exactly described)

The Senate Responsorum, M Minucius Audens, is a
special appointed position, and shall receive 10 CPs.

Lictor Curiati
- receive 5 CPs.
(does anyone has a list of the current Lictores
Curiatae? My list is from 04/oct/1999, see message
9386 from the archives)

Valete

Marcus Arminius Maior
Scriba Censorialis, Scriba Curatoris Araneum,
Propraetor Brasiliae and Aedilis Plebis (uf !)

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Digest Number 1578
From:	"Barbara Becker" <tekoamxai@-------->
Date:	Mon, 20 Aug 2001 12:15:05 -0400

salvete omnes,
i've been following the discussion about
the allocation of century points and
frankly,don't understand it completely.
i just wanted to reply to the statement
about rewarding someone who joins a
patrician gens with a "heavier vote".
i joined the cassia gens in july.
at the time,i didn't even know century
points existed. i joined the gens cassia
because it was in my geographic area and
because i was drwn to the gods/goddesses
it worshipped. i am mostly interested
in religion,mythology and history. the politial part holds little interest
for me.
i don't think new citizens join a gens
based on a future allocation of
century points. thanks for your attention-hope i don't offend anyone.
drusilla cassia titiana

roma@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 3:35 AM
Subject: [novaroma] Digest Number 1578

> There are 11 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. RE: Century Allocation (was RE: Century Points)
> From: Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
> 2. AMERICA AUSTRORIENTALIS EDICTUM NUMBER EIGHT (Addendum)
> From: "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
> 3. RE: Century Allocation (was RE: Century Points)
> From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
> 4. RE: Century Allocation (was RE: Century Points)
> From: Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
> 5. Digest No 1577
> From: "Lucius Equitius" <vze23hw7@-------->
> 6. Re: Re: Century Points
> From: "M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@-------->
> 7. Re: Digest No 1577
> From: PompeiaAntoniaCaesar <europamoon7@-------->
> 8. Re: Thank you Pompeia Antonia and Pompeia Cornelia and Censors
> From: Maximina Octavia <myownq@-------->
> 9. Pennsic or what I did for NR over my vaction-long
> From: asseri@--------
> 10. The Awarding of Century Points
> From: Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
> 11. Re: Pennsic or what I did for NR over my vaction-long
> From: asseri@--------
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 02:31:26 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
> Subject: RE: Century Allocation (was RE: Century Points)
>
> Salvete omnes.
>
> Please forgive once more my intrusion into this thread of conversation,
> but I just wanted to point out some ideas.
>
> --- Flavius Vedius Germanicus <germanicus@--------> wrote:
> > Salve
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Maia Apollonia Pica [mailto:mjarc@--------]
> > > Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 3:26 AM
> > >
> > > To be very blunt: why do we need centuries at all? They are
> > historic
> > > of course, but then so are many other things which Nova Roma
> > chooses
> > > not to revive, such as slavery. (I'm not saying the system of
> > > centuries and slavery are similar, only that historicity is not
> > > enough in itself to encourage us to revive things. And it's an
> > honest
> > > question, not some lame atempt at provocation.)
> >
> > To be equally blunt, because there are certain questions that should
> > rightly
> > be voted on under a system that gives more weight to those people who
> > have a
> > vested interest in the outcome than those who do not. For example,
> > take
> > changes to our Constitution. I believe it is not unreasonable to
> > assert that
> > someone who has been active in Nova Roma's development for several
> > years
> > should have more of a say in changing her fundamental documents than
> > someone
> > who has joined last week and has no idea of the history that led up
> > to the
> > current situation.
>
> But then, we are awarding new citizens who simply choose to join a
> patrician gens a heavier vote than those who join the plebeian order
> WITHOUT any additional proof of a higher level of commitment or
> compromise. Don't you think that this situation should somehow be fixed
> to grant coherence to our system?
>
> <<snipped>>
>
> > > Even if commitment could be measured precisely, I suppose I
> > > would still see a system based on it as undemocratic, unfair. As
> > this
> > > is the 28th century AUC, shouldn't we see all basically
> > undemocratic
> > > forms of government as obsolete? (Unless in a game, but NR is not a
> > > game. BTW, I have nothing against role-playing, being a gamer
> > > myself.)
> >
> > Here I disagree with you on philosophical grounds, rather than merely
> > on
> > practical considerations. As I mentioned above, there are indeed
> > cases where
> > it is proper for certain individuals' opinions to have more weight
> > than
> > others. In Nova Roma's case, it is those individuals who have
> > demonstrated a
> > commitment to the Republic through deeds who get to have a more
> > influential
> > voice in certain-- limited-- matters. It is not Nova Roma's mission
> > to
> > eliminate "undemocratic forms of government as obsolete". It is to
> > recreate
> > Roman society as it was historically known, as accurately as
> > practical.
>
> The problem I often see is that some of the solutions we have come up
> with are neither historically accurate nor too practical. We should try
> to stick more closely to historical tradition in those points were
> tradition does not enter in conflict with modern life, and then we
> should try to distantiate ourselves from those practices that can not
> be adopted without turning our collective back to modern assumptions.
>
> > If
> > you were looking for a utopia where everyone is 100% equal, you're in
> > the
> > wrong micronation.
>
> I guess that there should be no limits on the ideas we can discuss or
> vote on. I am not in favour of obliterating the Comitia Centuriata, but
> I would not consider that the idea of discarding it is out of the
> discussion in our Republic. Esteemed consul, you must understand that
> your vision of how Nova Roma should be is not the only one which
> deserves respect. Other ideas might not be majoritary, and might be
> wrong from your (or mine) point of view, but they do deserve some
> degree of respect.
>
>
> =====
> Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
> Gnaeus Salix Astur.
> Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 06:04:55 -0700 (PDT)
> From: "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
> Subject: AMERICA AUSTRORIENTALIS EDICTUM NUMBER EIGHT (Addendum)
>
> AMERICA AUSTRORIENTALIS EDICTUM NUMBER EIGHT is hereby
> amended to include the following
>
> 5. Whereas, The proprietiary rites for our Patron
> Deities have been performed, and the omens were
> auspicious, I declare that the aforementioned Gods and
> Goddesses have agreed to take us under thier
> protection.
>
> L. Sicinius Drusus,
> Propraetor America Austrorientalis
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 08:59:26 -0500 (CDT)
> From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
> Subject: RE: Century Allocation (was RE: Century Points)
>
> Salve Gnae Salix,
>
> > But then, we are awarding new citizens who simply choose to join a
> > patrician gens a heavier vote than those who join the plebeian order
> > WITHOUT any additional proof of a higher level of commitment or
> > compromise. Don't you think that this situation should somehow be fixed
> > to grant coherence to our system?
>
> Those same new citizens are completely unable to vote in the Comitia
> Plebis Tributa, unable to run for Tribune (one of the most powerful
> offices in our government), or to vote for Tribune. A slightly higher
> ranking in the centuries is a small compensation for being entirely
> locked out of the process of selecting Tribunes.
>
> Vale, Octavius.
>
> M. Octavius Germanicus
> Propraetor, Lacus Magni
> Curator Araneum et Senator
>
> "... one of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that,
> lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of
> their C programs." -- Robert Firth
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 08:14:45 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
> Subject: RE: Century Allocation (was RE: Century Points)
>
> Salvete omnes; et salve, M. Octavi.
>
> --- Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@--------> wrote:
> > Salve Gnae Salix,
> >
> > > But then, we are awarding new citizens who simply choose to join a
> > > patrician gens a heavier vote than those who join the plebeian
> > order
> > > WITHOUT any additional proof of a higher level of commitment or
> > > compromise. Don't you think that this situation should somehow be
> > fixed
> > > to grant coherence to our system?
> >
> > Those same new citizens are completely unable to vote in the Comitia
> > Plebis Tributa, unable to run for Tribune (one of the most powerful
> > offices in our government), or to vote for Tribune. A slightly
> > higher
> > ranking in the centuries is a small compensation for being entirely
> > locked out of the process of selecting Tribunes.
>
> That would be in theory. But given that, up to today, no legislation
> has ever been successfully proposed to the Comitia Plebis Tributa, and
> that on the sole occasion in which one was proposed many patrician
> cives complained about being left out of the votation; and given that,
> up to today, no tribunician veto has successfully been issued, I think
> your affirmation is pretty biased.
>
> Patricians do not loose much by giving up the possibility to join the
> Comitia Plebis Tributa.
>
>
>
> =====
> Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
> Gnaeus Salix Astur.
> Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 14:51:06 -0400
> From: "Lucius Equitius" <vze23hw7@-------->
> Subject: Digest No 1577
>
> Salvete,
>
> I would like to inquire on the nature of the 'ritual to the God Mars'. Is
> this a private/family rite?
> As Flamen Martialis, I am responsible for the 'official' cult of Mars and
> Nova Roma hasn't the means, yet, to perform a proper Equus October.
However,
> I do perform rituals on behalf of the state on those days devoted to Mars.
> The 13th of October is actually known to be the 'Fontinalia' in honor of
> FONS, god of fountains, springs, and wells. On this day garlands of
flowers
> were spread in decoration, especially around wells and springs.
>
> Valete, Flamen Martialis Lucius Equitius
>
> BTW Today is the fall 'VINALIA", festival of wine.
>
>
> > Message: 11
> > Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 22:02:19 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: PompeiaAntoniaCaesar <europamoon7@-------->
> > Subject: gathering
> >
> > Avete Omnes,
> >
> > I will be hosting a gathering at my home in Orange
> > County, California on Saturday, October 13 at 1:00
> > p.m.. The afternoon will include performance of a
> > ritual to the God Mars, a Roman banquet, several brief
> > presentations by cives of Nova Roma, discussion and
> > games. All food and beverage will be provided. Please
> > RSVP by September 30. Please feel free to contact me
> > for questions or comments.
> >
> > Bene Valete,
> >
> > Pompeia Antonia Caesar
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 20:46:40 +0200
> From: "M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@-------->
> Subject: Re: Re: Century Points
>
> Salvete M. Octavi Germanice et omnes Quirites!
>
> Octavi, you wrote the following:
>
> Salve Marce Apolloni,
>
> > Because he is so personally involved in these
> > matters and knows them so well, he may not understand
> that
> > when he wrote that certain categories of points owed
> > various cives were "never" entered into the data base, I
> > naturally assumed that he meant since the inception of
> the
> > original version of the database and the beginning of the
> > whole century-point system.
>
> You immediately assumed the worst because of your dislike
> for the Censores and myself. Rather than investigating,
> rather than asking any questions privately, you made a
> libelous public accusation of lawbreaking. All of this
> could have been avoided if you had exercised some restraint
> and tried to learn the facts before assuming conspiracy.
>
> RESPONDEO: First of all, mi Octavi, I have assumed that
> *you* have been acting constitutionally and legally with
> respect to acting only under the direction of the censores
> in regard to the maintenance of the database. My worries
> were about what the censores might have left undone, and
> were not directed at you. If I failed to make that clear
> enough (since I took it as too obvious to stress), I
> apologise for any unintended besmirching of your honour.
>
> I specifically stated that I had not previously suspected
> even the censors of the sort of misdeads as your words
> seemed to point to.
>
> I asked my question about your public words equally
> publically, and you have had a chance to reply equally
> publically. This was never a private matter that I should
> deal with behind the scenes, but one that is of immense
> importance to everyone here in NR. I see no reason why I
> should have done differently.
>
> Furthermore, I immediately assumed that you were telling
> the truth in your reply, and I expressed my belief in your
> words and thanked you for them. What I got in reply was the
> rabidity that follows.
> ______________________
>
> > Perhaps Octavius did not perceive that I was trying to
> > express my concern about the present situation without
> > naming names or expressing myself in any way extremely.
> The
> > comment in question was deliberately understated, and was
> > even so much so as to be (I had hoped) dryly humorous.
>
> Humorous? I've reread it five times now and still fail to
> see anything even slightly humorous about it.
>
> RESPONDEO: Octavi, Octavi, the humour was in the
> *understatement* with which I characterised the past
> conflicts between a certain censor and myself. If you
> didn't get it, you didn't get it, but I thought that it
> might have raised a little smile. My whole intent thereby
> was to milden my words and decrease tensions, and maybe
> draw us together a little bit in thinking of the silly
> aspect of our conflicts.
> ___________________
>
> <snip>
>
> > Since he insists on making a direct personal attack,
>
> YOU made the first personal attack. You accused us of
> breaking laws, without any proof, without attempting to
> first learn the truth of the matter. My "personal attack"
> was in response to your own.
>
> RESPONDEO: I took your own word at its face value. If you
> said that certain kinds of points had *never* been entered
> into the database, how was I to know that it meant only
> since the most recent changes? I took your words in their
> literal sense and according to their most probable
> interpretation as it seemed to me. If you had used the word
> "new" there somewhere before "database", then I and perhaps
> other more passive readers would not have misperceived the
> situation.
> ____________________________
>
> No one here is fooled by your attempts to play the victim,
> Formosanus. You made an unprovoked attack on the Censores
> and myself, and that has been preserved in the mailing list
> archives for all to see.
>
> RESPONDEO: My provocation was the fact that you seemed to
> be reporting things that would be seriously criminal, and I
> believed you.
>
> _______________________
>
> My response was to accuse you of being motivated by your
> personal dislike for the Censores and myself. I firmly
> believe this to be true, and I stand by my statement that
> you are pursuing a vendetta.
>
> RESPONDEO: If I did not believe that there really might be
> a problem, why would I attack it just to make myself look
> silly? I immediately admitted everyone was innocent as
> soon as you explained. I did not carry on further
> discussion of that point or contest the issue, but have
> only reacted to your vendetta against me. I am sure that it
> is obvious that you reacted very disproprotionately and
> with more emotion than I ever put into my public inquiry.
> ___________________
>
> > I shall reply that if a certain censor had let well
> > enough alone,
>
> [dead horseflesh removed]
>
> >That piece of prejudiced and unfair legislation, which is
> > festering in our Tabularium and undermining any claim we
> > may have to be a nation of justice, is unfinished
> > business.
>
> It certainly is finished. The people have spoken, and they
> have rejected your position.
>
> Some people thought the cause of the Confederate States of
> America was "unfinished business" after April of 1865. They
> were mistaken.
>
> RESPONDEO: And for some time up until a few years before
> that date no doubt whites in the Southern States thought
> that the "Negro" was forever going to be kept "in his
> place". And yet we now have a black Secretary of State.
>
> Idealism is not about vendettas, but it is about increasing
> social justice. And it has a special strength all its own.
> Don't underestimate it. It can suffer its share of defeats
> or more, and still go on to win out.
> ________________
>
> <snip>
>
>
> YOU STRUCK FIRST. YOU posted because of personal
> animosity, and all I did was to respond. YOU were the
> aggressor here.
>
> RESPONDEO: I posted because I had good reason to think
> there was a serious problem in our Respublica. If you think
> that you are going to make either yourself or the censors
> immune to pointed inquiry and public scrutiny in the
> carrying out of your jobs by such outbursts of gross and
> unpleasant overreaction as soon as we let out a peep, then
> you have got another think coming.
> ______________________
>
>
> > But I consider my most valuable
> > contribution to Nova Roma to be my campaign for justice
> in
> > the case of Marius, my co-founding of the Amici
> Dignitatis,
> > my campaign against linguistic chauvinism, and my
> warnings
> > over the dangers of oligarchy. Criticism of evils is a
> very
> > precious thing for any human society that is not perfect
> > (i.e all human societies). And yet it is made so
> unwelcome
> > here (as Octavius' unnecessary comments above show) that
> I
> > cannot see it in the near future being rewarded as it
> > deserves, nor do I know how to quantify it.
>
> You think you "deserve" rewards for having strong opinions,
> and for harping on the same issues endlessly? In that
> case, I should get the same rewards, as I've spent nearly
> as much time as you have debating the same issues.
>
> RESPONDEO: Perhaps you should. On the other hand, mere
> defence of the status quo doesn't push things forward to
> improvements in quite the same way as criticism, does it?
> _________________
>
> Or do you think rewards should go only to those who agree
> with you? (I wouldn't be at all surprised).
>
> RESPONDEO: And that was in the end my real point - these
> things cannot be objectively quantified to everyone's
> satisfaction.
> _____________________
>
>
> > Those who want to "build" and consider warnings that the
> building
> > is on moral sand and bound to collapse to be just a
> > malicious waste of time will not appreciate the degree of
> > effort
>
> When persons are engaged in building on a foundation of
> reinforced concrete, and some madman repeatedly barges in
> to the construction site raving about sand and imminent
> collapse, naturally they will not be appreciative.
>
> RESPONDEO: You do not paint a very favourable picture of
> me, do you? It seems to me to be motivated by a very great
> and persistent personal dislike that has lasted over many
> months indeed since it had any pretext to express itself.
> Sounds like a vendetta against me, in fact.
>
> > Nova Roma if it is to be a decent and respectable
> > institution in the 21st C.E. century must not be a haven
> > for right-wing or authoritarian political malcontents who
> > just cannot stand the growth of democracy and equality in
> > society at large,
>
> More unfounded name-calling. It seems that everyone who
> disagrees with you on any issue whatseover is "right-wing"
> or "authoritarian" or "ultra right-wing".
>
> RESPONDEO: I think that people who are against democracy
> are both in everday speech and in political science are
> indeed named in that manner.
> _________________________
>
> Where are these imaginary right-wing authoritarians you
> keep babbling about?
>
> REPONDEO:
>
> Vedius:
> "It is not Nova Roma's mission to
> eliminate "undemocratic forms of government as obsolete".
> It is to recreate Roman society as it was historically
> known, as accurately as practical. If you were looking for
> a utopia where everyone is 100% equal, you're in the wrong
> micronation."
> _________________
>
> I'm certainly not one of them. I am a paid member of the
> ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) and the
> anti-censorship Electronic Frontier Foundation, the group
> that recently negotiated the release of the unjustly
> imprisoned Dimitry Sklyarov. You already
> knew that, of course, but it's easier for you to inveigh
> against some mythical right-wingers than to attack the real
> positions of your opponent.
>
> RESPONDEO: If you described the state of political affairs
> in Nova Roma as a nation to some of your friends in the
> ACLU, disguising the names and the fact that it was a
> micronation, how many of said friends would approve? I
> think that you have by some mental mechanisms failed to
> judge things in NR by the same criteria you would use off
> net or in some other associations you might belong to. I
> really wish that you would sit down with yourself and try
> to reconcile the diametrically opposed political
> philosophies you are espousing in different places.
>
> And I congratulate you on the Sklyarov affair, by the way.
> In your off-net persona our values are in many ways very
> congruent. But I apply mine here too.
> _____________________
>
> You hope that if you mention these mythical right-wingers
> often enough that the people may actually start to believe
> that they exist. This tactic is known as "the Big Lie",
> and I for one find it contemptible. In the interests of
> balance, should I start referring to you as a "communist
> infiltrator" or somesuch nonsense?
>
> REPONDEO: I should say the denialism that refuses to admit
> the gross injustices done to former civis Marius
> Peregrinus, the sexual prejudice in the Name-change Lex,
> and the unwholesome effects on openness and democracy of
> the oligarchic tendencies here is a far more serious form
> of Big Lie. And obviously you have concocted your own Big
> Lie about me, by consistently trying to portray me as some
> kind of fanatic demagogue simply because I have a moral and
> social concern about several issues that I refuse to keep
> conveniently silent about.
>
>
> >So, keep the basic institutions of centurues and the
> >Comitia Centuriata out of respect for the tradition, but
> >remove the venom of inequality in public decision-making
> >and voting from it. It is not wanted today.
>
> Do you also favor removing the Comitial Plebis Tributa, in
> which only two-thirds of the citizens can vote? If not,
> then all your purported dislike for "inequality" is a lie.
>
> REPONDEO: A fair question. I think that if that turns out
> to be the only effective means for reform in favour or
> equality, then it must be used, but I do not regard it as
> ideal in itself and as it is. The real problem is in the
> disproportionate number of patricians in the population
> relative to historical times. That is a point that
> certainly deserves a bit of reform. If that is also your
> opinion, then we in that agree. As things stand now,
> though, it is needed as a defence - in some form - against
> the oligarchy. The fact that the patricians per se in Nova
> Roma are not exactly the same group as the oligarchy does
> not mean that the Plebs does not need its power and its
> defence. Probably some of the non-powerful patricians need
> some part in that defence too.
>
> I am a person who believes that human beings should be
> politically equal and free. I believe that that should
> apply to all nations and all voluntary associations. I tend
> to dislike those who refuse to allow that equality and
> freedom, especially those motivated by a desire to keep
> disproprotionate power for themselves. And I believe that
> it is right and necessary to try to bring about such a free
> and equal world actively and that not to work for this
> wherever necessary is irresponsible. I intend to do that in
> Nova Roma as anywhere. I think that hundreds of millions of
> people in the countries where Nova Roma cives live in their
> macronations in North and South America, and Europe
> recognise these values and do not consider them one bit
> fanatical or extreme.
>
> Octavi, we have in the past corresponded to try to come to
> a more amicable relationship. I would be glad to resume
> that private dialogue with you, because, as noted above,
> you seem to have a viewpoint in the non-net world that is
> highly congruent with mine. These heated exchanges between
> us seem to me useless, whereas discussion might be more
> fruitful.
>
> Valete!
>
>
> _________________________________________________
> Marcus Apollonius Formosanus
> Psterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae
> Aedilis Plebeius, Amicus Dignitatis
> Magister Scholae Latinae
> ICQ# 61698049 AIM: MAFormosanus
> Minervium Virtuale: http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/Minervium.htm
> Gens Apollonia: http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/
> The Gens Apollonia is accepting new members.
> ____________________________________________________
> All that is needed for the forces of evil to triumph in the world is for
> enough good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke
> ___________________________________________________
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 12:16:51 -0700 (PDT)
> From: PompeiaAntoniaCaesar <europamoon7@-------->
> Subject: Re: Digest No 1577
>
> Salve,
>
> When I decided upon the date for the event I looked up
> the calendar of holidays and festivals on the Pantheon
> site and it stated that October was sacred to the God
> Mars. That is how my decision was made. The rite
> performed at the last event was brief and performed by
> Quintus Fabius Maximus in honor of the Goddess Minerva
> and Fabius will probably perform the ritual at the
> next event as well. I welcome any comments or
> suggestions as to the proper procedure in performing a
> ritual for the upcoming event.
>
> Vale,
>
> Pompeia Antonia Caesar
>
>
> --- Lucius Equitius <vze23hw7@--------> wrote:
> > Salvete,
> >
> > I would like to inquire on the nature of the 'ritual
> > to the God Mars'. Is
> > this a private/family rite?
> > As Flamen Martialis, I am responsible for the
> > 'official' cult of Mars and
> > Nova Roma hasn't the means, yet, to perform a proper
> > Equus October. However,
> > I do perform rituals on behalf of the state on those
> > days devoted to Mars.
> > The 13th of October is actually known to be the
> > 'Fontinalia' in honor of
> > FONS, god of fountains, springs, and wells. On this
> > day garlands of flowers
> > were spread in decoration, especially around wells
> > and springs.
> >
> > Valete, Flamen Martialis Lucius Equitius
> >
> > BTW Today is the fall 'VINALIA", festival of wine.
> >
> >
> > > Message: 11
> > > Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 22:02:19 -0700 (PDT)
> > > From: PompeiaAntoniaCaesar
> > <europamoon7@-------->
> > > Subject: gathering
> > >
> > > Avete Omnes,
> > >
> > > I will be hosting a gathering at my home in Orange
> > > County, California on Saturday, October 13 at 1:00
> > > p.m.. The afternoon will include performance of a
> > > ritual to the God Mars, a Roman banquet, several
> > brief
> > > presentations by cives of Nova Roma, discussion
> > and
> > > games. All food and beverage will be provided.
> > Please
> > > RSVP by September 30. Please feel free to contact
> > me
> > > for questions or comments.
> > >
> > > Bene Valete,
> > >
> > > Pompeia Antonia Caesar
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 11:28:50 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Maximina Octavia <myownq@-------->
> Subject: Re: Thank you Pompeia Antonia and Pompeia Cornelia and Censors
>
>
> Avete Pompeia et Pompeia,
> I am ever so grateful for the kind comments regarding my artwork. I
apologize for the late debt of thanks as I have been feverishly working on
larariums for Nova Roma and my continuing research to ensure the accuracy of
the shrines.
> I will make Mithraeums, Egyptian (Roman Isis), Nabataen and many other
shrines available as I am able. Other special handmade (by me) creations
such as lamps, altars, incense burners, and ushabtis are forthcoming.
> Again, thank you for your kind words and support. If there is anything
you especially would like to request, please fell free to do so anytime. I
will do my best to fulfill your wishes
> Vale, Maximina Octavia
>
> PompeiaAntoniaCaesar <europamoon7@--------> wrote:
> --- trog99@-------- wrote:
> > --- Salvete Omnes: I checked out Domina Maximina's
> > website, and in my
> > opinion, her work is absolutely breathtaking.
> >
> > I applaud your talents, Maximina, and I thank you
> > for your willingness
> > to share them in the name of Nova Roma.
> >
> > Bene valete,
> > Pompeia Cornelia
> >
> >
> > In novaroma@--------, "Lucius Equitius" <vze23hw7@v...>
> > wrote:
> > > Ex Domo Censor Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus
> > Quiritibus SPD
> > >
> > > Quiris Maximina Octavia has been added to the Ordo
> > Equester.
> > >
> > > Her website http://www.caesar-a.cityslide.com
> > should be added to the
> > Macellum http://www.novaroma.org/macellum/index.html
> > very soon.
> > >
> > >
> > > Bene omnibus nobis
>
>
>
> Avete Omnes.
>
> A special thanks to Maximina for so generously
> contributing her exceptional talents to our heritage.
> I know she will make us proud. I have personally seen
> her work and it is truly beautiful and inspiring.
>
> Valete,
>
> Pompeia Antonia Caesar
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 22:47:01 EDT
> From: asseri@--------
> Subject: Pennsic or what I did for NR over my vaction-long
>
> Salvete! ( begging forgiveness for repeat posts)
> I return wind and sunburned but oh so content! Pennsic was as
always
> an adventure. This time however I did more things with a Roman theme and
was
> very pleased to see so many more men and woman in Roman Street and
Military
> garments. I also had a great armload of books and four fibulia plus a few
> surprises for friends here )
> I did make a few contacts -- two that are locals to me and that alone
was
> worth the travel. Pennsic weather was often unpleasant as it was very hot
and
> dry most of the time. Many of the main battles were changed and thus
affected
> my lunch on Thursday.
> But I went ahead and made it on the date and time I had announced.
> While no one from Nova Roma made it. I was able to make a very good
> impression on my shire. So good (if I may brag) that they would like to
host
> a much bigger event for Nova Roma/Roman groups next year. Let me give a
> short rundown and menu.
>
> I made a worship kits of a round tin container with a small glass
> bottle of frankincense and one of myrrh with a self burning charcoal
brick. I
> get the tins form the photography department and the glass bottles are
> recycled contact lens bottles from my office. The resins I had already
from
> other projects. These were to be given to any NR members that did get
there.
> I ended up giving them to the active pagans I know.
> The menu was pretty large and I proudly say I made all most of it
but
> the olives-the shire donated those.
> hard cooked eggs (brown)
> two types of flavored soft cheeses (very well liked)
> flat bread (purchased)
> herbed olives
> dried fruits
> marinated chicken livers (I had to pan simmer those do to weather)
> marinated cucumber slices (garum and balsamic vinegar- a big hit)
> Baian Stew (went extremely well,),
> lentils and artichokes hearts (so so)
> cannelli bean fixed herb sauce (so so)
> stuffed date fried in honey ( very good )
> sliced cantaloupes and red grapes
> I also made raisin sweetened apple juice
> and mulsum to drink with it.
> I opened the meal with a short explanations of NR and what we are.
I
> then did a small ritual of a roman oil lamp lighting to welcome the Gods
to
> be with us.
>
> " I light this in the memory of those that have come before us.
> I light this in honor of those that I am with.
> I light this in the hope of those that will come after me."
>
> Once the lamp was lite. I explained the food items and what was the
> ingredients. After that was done I let the ravenous horde that is my
beloved
> shire eat. The over all reviews was good and I have many ideas for next
> year. The whole idea appealed to my shire and we will be seriously
> considering have an official gathering/party next year!
> There was an accident with our lead cook. She fell out of her bed
and
> seriously dislocated her elbow. it required a hospital visit and a surgeon
to
> look at the x-rays. With her arm splinted from shoulder to wrist I had to
do
> more fill in work so I wasn't out of camp much during daylight.
> I look forward to planing an another attempt for next year.
>
> (fabia-still pending) Ancinna Drusila
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 00:18:08 -0400
> From: Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
> Subject: The Awarding of Century Points
>
>
>
> Salvete cives et amici,
>
> Our constitution states:
>
> The exact composition of these centuries shall be determined by law passed
> by the comitia centuriata, but shall be weighted in favour of those
citizens
> who have shown the greatest commitment to Nova Roma.
>
> If this is so, then century points are awarded to citizens who are active
> and in good standing and have taken up a responsibility to our republic.
> This is great, but where do you draw a clear line on commitment itself?
>
> The Lex Vedia Centuriata says that the fallowing positions show adequate
> forms of commitment to be awarded for. Senate service, consul, censor,
> praetor, aedile, quaestor, tribuni plebis, and provincial governor. Going
my
> this it seems like the consution should say something like this.
>
> Centuries shall be weighted in favour of those citizens who have shown the
> greatest *political* commitment to Nova Roma.
>
> Yes, I know there are few positions that lack political commitment that
are
> stated in the Lex Vedia Centuriata, like being an equestrian or a citizen
> for a longer amount of time. Oh, and then there is the mysterious special
> appointed position. *grins* I notice that many other citizens are showing
> commitment to the state in many different ways some being organising
> regional gatherings, running a busy email list, or designing websites.
> (wink, wink) All of these take a committed frame of mind. All of these
take
> an enormous amount of time. All of these are unrecognised by the Lex Vedia
> Centuriata.
>
> This is hardly fair seeing that these citizens must dedicate large
portions
> of their time, while the better known citizens that hold a political
office
> receive a large amount of points for their time. It would be nice to see
> more of these dedicated Romans recognised by the Lex Vedia Centuriata.
>
> Valete,
>
> "Quamquam cupido sis delictum ab sui crebro sum mater ab vitualis"
> "Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of
virtues"
>
> --
> Amulius Claudius Petrus Arcticium
> Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
> Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
> Canada Orientalis Provincia
>
> Canada Orientalis Website:
> www.freehost.nu/members/canorien
>
> Gens Claudia Website:
> www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 00:24:14 EDT
> From: asseri@--------
> Subject: Re: Pennsic or what I did for NR over my vaction-long
>
> Salvete,
> I forgot to add I took pictures and a friend / shire member played
> harp music for us as we ate!
>
> Drusila
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Am I reading this right?
From:	"Robert Woolwine" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Mon, 20 Aug 2001 23:09:07 -0000

Ave,

Lictors do not receive Century points. I checked this out from the
Lex Vedia and the Lex Iunia.

Hope this helps.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

--- In novaroma@--------, M Arminius Maior <marminius@--------> wrote:

&g----------- labienus@-------- escreveu: &g--------alve Dalma-------- > >
> > According to the second Lex Iunia Centuriata, which
> > amends Lex Vedia
> > Centuriata, Vigintisexviri are given 10 points for
> > current service, and 5
> > points for past service.
> >
> > Vale
> > T Labienus Fortunatus
>
>
> Salvete Cives, Salve Labieni
>
> I want use this oportinity to solve some doubts about
> cntury points (CPs).
> According to my interpretation of the Lex Vedia
> Apparitoria and the Leges Centuriatas:
>
> Scriba of a Censor, Praetor, Aedile, and Assensi of a
> Consul, receive 5 CPs.
>
> Scriba of a Gubernator
> - is one of the Decuria Scribae, receives 5 CPs.
>
> Legate of a Gubernator
> - isnt one of the Apparitores, doesnt receive CPs.
> (not clear to me, perhaps can be considered as a
> scriba)
>
> Scriba of a Vigintisexviri (of the Curatores or
> Rogatores)
> - isnt a scriba of a Magistrate, doesnt receive CPs.
> (not clear to me, perhaps the Vigitisexviri can be
> considered minor Magistrates)
>
> Lictor of a Magistrate (Consul, Praetor, Dictator,
> Interrex)
> - is one of the Decuria Lictores, receives 5 CPs.
>
> Lictor of a Gubernator
> - is one of the Decuria Lictores, receives 5 CPs.
> (not clear to me, because isnt exactly described)
>
> The Senate Responsorum, M Minucius Audens, is a
> special appointed position, and shall receive 10 CPs.
>
> Lictor Curiati
> - receive 5 CPs.
> (does anyone has a list of the current Lictores
> Curiatae? My list is from 04/oct/1999, see message
> 9386 from the archives)
>
>
> Valete
>
> Marcus Arminius Maior
> Scriba Censorialis, Scriba Curatoris Araneum,
> Propraetor Brasiliae and Aedilis Plebis (uf !)
>
>
>
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Subject:	[novaroma] New BBC World Service Programme
From:	"Devry, Mark (Packaging House Auckland)"
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 09:11:52 +1200

Salvete citizens, friends and hangers on of Nova Roma.

I may be letting out secrets about my age here, but as I was fighting the
rain and traffic to work this morning (where I have been asked not to wear
Roman Garb by the Divisional Manager incidently - boo hiss) when I heard an
ad on the radio about a new programme on the BBC World Service that is going
to be launched soon called "On-digital" which is about the effect of digital
technology on the world and people.
Now, not normally acting as an advertising agent for the BBC, the relevent
part of this programme is that they want people to write in with stories
about their experiences and their interaction with the digital world.
So, perhaps the Powers that be would be interested in submitting some info
on the rise of Macro-nations through the internet - especially a certain
Macro Nation that we all know and love. (Yes citizens, I do mean Nova
Roma). Also perhaps those of the Religio Romano order might wish to put in
something regarding the role of Ancient religions utilising cutting edge
technology.
I don't know the email address for this, but the physical postal address is
"On-Digital, BBC World Service,Bush House, London, Great Britain".

Now if Nova Roma decides to take advantage of this opportunity, us citizens
can help by adding our voices and personal experiences and write in
ourselves till sheer numbers guarantees us a segment on this show.

So, anyone else think this is a good opportunity?

Valete!
Marcus Sentius Accipiter (possibly a Boring Old Sod)

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