Subject:	[novaroma] Re: The Awarding of Century Points
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Mon, 20 Aug 2001 20:09:10 -0400

Salve Consul,

> If I read you correctly, you're suggesting a form on the website where
> Citizens can apply for points based on fulfilling the criteria listed in the
> various leges. I'm wondering how this differs from the present system, where
> Citizens are currently able to simply send an email to the Censors and
> request such an update. Although perhaps it might help somewhat if there was
> some sort of check-box system on the form...

Yes Germanicus, this is the key to the whole proposal. Having an application
form with set criteria would speed up the process of finding out if the
request is qualifiable. Some of the questions could require one to give
links to where there is proof of the job. For instance if you asked if my
job is officially recognised by the provincia I could give you a link to a
edictum stating me as the official retarius of Canada Orientalis. Less
digging through dusty archives and more pin point investigating.

>
> Plus there is the problem that some things just couldn't be verified. If I
> tell the Censors I just handed out 1,000 Nova Roma flyers and can I please
> have my 10 Century Points, how are they to verify that I actually earned the
> reward?

You could not prove such a thing. Although we could easily limit the giving
of century points to all jobs that are officially recognised by the
republic. An example of this could be a provincial authority officially
recognising one of there citizens provincial gatherings. If this citizen
wishes to receive century points for his work he could prove it by giving
proof of its existence in an application form.

> While I might be in favour of expanding the list of services for which
> century points might be awarded, we run into two problems with the scenario
> you describe. First, not all websites are alike, and it is possible to toss
> one up for no investment of money and a miniscule investment of time. Should
> one page on a free server with a couple of links and copy-and-pasted
> graphics equal the efforts of someone who lovingly spends hours carefully
> crafting a gens web page and stocking it with information? Who decides what
> is and is not worthy of getting more points for a "good" website and fewer
> for a "crappy" website?

Again, if the website was officially recognised by a propreator or pater for
their job, then yes, they do disserve the points. If the website is terrible
and a gens or provincial leader was foolish enough to make it official, then
it only looks bad on their establishment. You can be a crappy, inactive
politician, but you still receive century points. This is because your job
is official by law. Same deal should go for minor appointed positions.

Vale,


"Quamquam cupido sis delictum ab sui crebro suum mater ab vitualis"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia

Canada Orientalis Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/canorien

Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--






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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Am I reading this right?
From:	Kristoffer From <from@-------->
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 02:15:32 +0200

Robert Woolwine wrote:
> Lictors do not receive Century points. I checked this out from the
> Lex Vedia and the Lex Iunia.
>
> --- In novaroma@--------, M Arminius Maior <marminius@--------> wrote:
> > Scriba of a Gubernator
> > - is one of the Decuria Scribae, receives 5 CPs.

Salvete, quirites.

Does this mean that the provincial scribas (Such as myself) are supposed
to receive century points for their work? I've read two laws discussing
century points, and neither seemed to mention this...unless we're
talking "special appointed position"...? On the website, legate titles
are listed, but no points are awarded for them, while scriba titles
aren't mentioned at all...query to censors or those
responsible/knowledgeable: Does the position of scriba award CP:s? If
so, does the title of legatus? If not, why not?

Just interested in understanding the system, not aggressive.

Valete,

Titus Octavius Pius,
Senior Legatus Thules,
Praeco Anarei Thules, ( <-- Provincial Scriba-class title )
Scriba to the Curator Araneum

AKA Kristoffer From

---

Si hoc signum legere potes,
operis boni in rebus latinis alacribus
et fructuosis potiri potes.

- Not-so-famous quotation

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R+++>$ !tv- b+++>$ DI++++ D+ G e h! !r-->r+++ !y-
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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Am I reading this right?
From:	"Robert Woolwine" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 00:48:13 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, Kristoffer From <from@d...> wrote:
> Robert Woolwine wrote:
> > Lictors do not receive Century points. I checked this out from
the
> > Lex Vedia and the Lex Iunia.
> >
> > --- In novaroma@--------, M Arminius Maior <marminius@--------> wrote:
> > > Scriba of a Gubernator
> > > - is one of the Decuria Scribae, receives 5 CPs.
>
> Salvete, quirites.
>
> Does this mean that the provincial scribas (Such as myself) are
supposed
> to receive century points for their work? I've read two laws
discussing
> century points, and neither seemed to mention this...unless we're
> talking "special appointed position"...? On the website, legate
titles
> are listed, but no points are awarded for them, while scriba titles
> aren't mentioned at all...query to censors or those
> responsible/knowledgeable: Does the position of scriba award CP:s?
If
> so, does the title of legatus? If not, why not?
>
> Just interested in understanding the system, not aggressive.

Ave,

I believe the special appointed position is based on Senatorial
Approval.

I believe Appatories are Accessii and Scriba. Nothing else.

The reason that many positions are not given century points is quite
simple really, the legislation in question is almost 2 years old.
Nova Roma at the time was less than 400 citizens...about that
number. Remember at that time NR was very top heavy. Now we have
grown substantially. Now, the Century points should be revised given
the dramatic growth and development NR has experienced. With that in
mind, the revision of century points that Censor C. Marius Merullus
and I wrote would have taken care in allocating points for many
positions that have proliferated in the time from the Lex Vedia
Centuriatia til now. If anyone would like I would repost the
proposed century point changes that was written up?

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Am I reading this right?
From:	Fortunatus <labienus@-------->
Date:	Mon, 20 Aug 2001 20:43:04 -0500

Salvete L Corneli omnesque

> Lictors do not receive Century points. I checked this out from the
> Lex Vedia and the Lex Iunia.


This is false. Lictores and Lictores Curiatae are apparitores, and
therefore receive 5 points for active service.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus
--
"One is not superior merely because one sees the world as odious."
-Chateaubriand




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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Am I reading this right?
From:	"Robert Woolwine" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 01:58:00 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "Robert Woolwine" <alexious@e...> wrote:
> --- In novaroma@--------, Kristoffer From <from@d...> wrote:
> > Robert Woolwine wrote:
> > > Lictors do not receive Century points. I checked this out from
> the
> > > Lex Vedia and the Lex Iunia.
> > >
> > > --- In novaroma@--------, M Arminius Maior <marminius@--------> wrote:
> > > > Scriba of a Gubernator
> > > > - is one of the Decuria Scribae, receives 5 CPs.
> >
> > Salvete, quirites.
> >
> > Does this mean that the provincial scribas (Such as myself) are
> supposed
> > to receive century points for their work? I've read two laws
> discussing
> > century points, and neither seemed to mention this...unless we're
> > talking "special appointed position"...? On the website, legate
> titles
> > are listed, but no points are awarded for them, while scriba
titles
> > aren't mentioned at all...query to censors or those
> > responsible/knowledgeable: Does the position of scriba award
CP:s?
> If
> > so, does the title of legatus? If not, why not?
> >
> > Just interested in understanding the system, not aggressive.
>
> Ave,
>
> I believe the special appointed position is based on Senatorial
> Approval.
>
> I believe Appatories are Accessii and Scriba. Nothing else.
>
> The reason that many positions are not given century points is
quite
> simple really, the legislation in question is almost 2 years old.
> Nova Roma at the time was less than 400 citizens...about that
> number. Remember at that time NR was very top heavy. Now we have
> grown substantially. Now, the Century points should be revised
given
> the dramatic growth and development NR has experienced. With that
in
> mind, the revision of century points that Censor C. Marius Merullus
> and I wrote would have taken care in allocating points for many
> positions that have proliferated in the time from the Lex Vedia
> Centuriatia til now. If anyone would like I would repost the
> proposed century point changes that was written up?

Ave,

I forgot to add, that please remember when this legislation was
written...we were under the Dictatorship. Consul Flavius Vedius did
a hell of alot during that time. His legislation was necessary and
the vast amount of laws that came from that time was and still is
breathtaking in scope, given the short amount of time that Consul
Flavius Vedius was Dictator.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Am I reading this right?
From:	Fortunatus <labienus@-------->
Date:	Mon, 20 Aug 2001 20:54:33 -0500

Salvete M Armini omnesque

> I want use this oportinity to solve some doubts about
> cntury points (CPs).


You are correct in almost all of your conclusions.

First, the constitution does not list provincial officials among the
heading "magistrates". However, as Lex Vedia Apparitoria specifically
mentions provincial governors among those who have "the Constitutional
authority to appoint scribae," the law clearly means that provincial
scribae and lictores do, indeed, qualify for the award.

I would therefore suggest to all provincial governors that they
immediately re-appoint any legati currently serving them as scribae, in
order that these people might be rewarded for their work.


> Scriba of a Vigintisexviri (of the Curatores or
> Rogatores)
> - isnt a scriba of a Magistrate, doesnt receive CPs.
> (not clear to me, perhaps the Vigitisexviri can be
> considered minor Magistrates)


The scribae of the Vigintisexviri are members of the Decuria Scribae, as
the Vigintisexviri are considered magistrates by the constitution.


> Lictor Curiati
> - receive 5 CPs.
> (does anyone has a list of the current Lictores
> Curiatae? My list is from 04/oct/1999, see message
> 9386 from the archives)


I am not certain how much that list has changed over time, though I am
still on it. The Pontifex Maximus, M Cassius, ought to know.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus
--
"One is not superior merely because one sees the world as odious."
-Chateaubriand




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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Am I reading this right?
From:	"Robert Woolwine" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 01:59:06 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, Fortunatus <labienus@t...> wrote:
> Salvete L Corneli omnesque
>
> > Lictors do not receive Century points. I checked this out from
the
> > Lex Vedia and the Lex Iunia.
>
>
> This is false. Lictores and Lictores Curiatae are apparitores, and
> therefore receive 5 points for active service.

Ave,

Oh thank you...I am sure I would have realized the mistake when I got
home from work....I was going based on memory.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Am I reading this right?
From:	Fortunatus <labienus@-------->
Date:	Mon, 20 Aug 2001 20:57:01 -0500

Salvete

> I believe Appatories are Accessii and Scriba. Nothing else.


Constitution, IV.A.9:
"Apparitores (Attendants). Collectively, the apparitores shall not be
considered magistrates, but rather shall be appointed into various
decuriae (corporations) to fulfill those necessary functions as shall be
assigned to them by law enacted by one of the comitia. They shall
include the lictores, lictores curiati, scribae, and accensi."

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus
--
"One is not superior merely because one sees the world as odious."
-Chateaubriand




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Ohio Roman Day Feast Menu
From:	asseri@--------
Date:	Mon, 20 Aug 2001 22:53:20 EDT

In a message dated 8/20/01 2:57:52 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
europamoon7@-------- writes:


> Did the
>

well, raisin yes. The others I'm not sure. I remember that Elizabeth
the 1st favorite dish was roasted chicken stuff wth rice and licorice cause
it was a fairly new flaver and all the rage. It is native to southern and
central Europe. Possibly avaliable.

Ginger is a tropical plant. my copy of "the herb book" by John lust
says it is native to tropical Asia. Rome did do a lot of trade .
I did a quick look at one book and it does list Ginger as a proper spice.

but your question should be: did they use them in the appliction you are
suggesting. That I can't answere. I can't only suggest keep looking and
educate yourself!

A. Drusila


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Subject:	[novaroma] Censoral Century Point Proposal 2753 AUC
From:	trog99@--------
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 03:45:14 -0000

Salve L. Cornelius Sulla et Populesque:

I for one, feel that you should repost this proposal of your office,
Pater; I am sure many would find it something we could work with.

In addition, I agree with Amuli Claudi et Consul Germanicus that some
of the burden should be on the individual citizen with respect to
advising the Censors regarding what they have done to earn Century
Points.


Pater, you bring up an excellent point in that the population of NR is
much larger than three years ago. Neither you or Lucius Equitius are
omnipresent, last time I checked :). Citizens should be expected to
check their century points after your major annual update, and write
you within, say a specified time, like 21 days, if they feel the tally
is incorrect.

If city hall sends me a ridiculously high tax bill, I am going to
write them to dispute it; I am not going to just sit and assume that
they will *catch* the error, then get upset if they don't :)

Vale bene
Pompeia Cornelia Strabo
Propraetrix Canada Orientalis
NOVA ROMA






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Subject:	[novaroma] Recent NR Gatherings
From:	trog99@--------
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 03:54:26 -0000

Salvete Pompeia Antonia et Benefactaria Tribuna Drusilla:

I was delighted to read about the success of your recent gatherings.
Indeed, it sounds like you had fun, and NR was inevitably strengthened
in the process.

Drusilla, I am trying to make arrangements to drive to Ohio for the
gathering of Oct. 13. I have to wait a few more days to confirm that
I am indeed getting that weekend off. I *may* have a 12-year-old in
tow. But he'll behave...........or else (evil grin!!!) I'll let
either you or the tribune know.

And, fellow Pompeia, I am hoping one day in the future I will have the
privilege of meeting you too :)

Buona Fortuna Perpetua,
Pompeia Cornelia




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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Ohio Roman Day Feast Menu
From:	"Robert Woolwine" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 04:56:43 -0000

Ave,

Please take pics...I love seeing pics of fellow Nova Romans meeting
each other...it allows those of us who live thousands of miles away
to be closer!

Vale,

L. Cornelius Sulla

--- In novaroma@--------, Shane Evans <marcusafricanus@--------> wrote:
> Here is the menu for the feast we will be having in
> Columbus, Ohio after the Roman Day event. This is a
> RSVP only dinner, and the cover charge will be $15.00.
> I have tasted the cook's tallents, and I strongly
> anyone planning to attend the event to stick around
> for the dinner. For RSVP, contact Ancinna Drusila
> (Asseri@--------) before October first.
>
> Menu
>
> hard cooked eggs (brown)
> two types of flavored soft cheeses
> flat bread
> herbed olives
> dried fruits
> marinated chicken
> marinated cucumber slices (garum and balsamic vinegar)
>
> Baian Stew (Simply to die for)
> lentils and artichokes hearts
> cannelli bean fixed herb sauce
> stuffed date fried in honey
> sliced cantaloupes and red grapes
> raisin sweetened apple juice and grape juice (no
> alchohol allowed there)
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo!
Messenger
> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/




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Subject:	[novaroma] The proposed lex on Century Points
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@-------->
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 00:11:07 -0700

Ave,

Let me briefly introduce this to all of Nova Roma. This was written
around November of last year during the Censorship of C. Marius
Merullus.
It was sent to the Consuls at the time and eventually to Consul Flavius
Vedius (I am not certain if Consul M. Cassius has seen this.) Some
members of the Senate have seen this and a few other citizens have seen
this. This was felt to be a good revision given the proliferation of
political offices, Religio offices and other offices (Sodalitas,
Paterfamilias positions, and others).

I once again submit this to the People of Nova Roma. Even now as I had
to look this up and read it over I would make even more revisions and
clarifications.

Without further comment, here is a copy of the proposal I sent to the
Consuls and my colleague dated November 28, 2000.

____


Oh I forgot to add, this makes no changes on the aspect of the Lex Vedia
when it comes to the longevity points...one gets. :) In other
words....if you have been a citizen for less than 6 months you get so
many points....a year...so much more....and the point is that this
Lex....has no bearing on that portion. :)

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor

Lucius Cornelius Sulla wrote:

> Ave,
>
> Please put this agenda item on the next Senate call. :)
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> C. Marius Merullus
> Censors
> _____________
>
> Legates appointed by Imperium bearing Magistrates - 5 pts
>
> Apparitores, Accensi, Scribes of Senior Magistrates (Censors, Consuls
> and Praetors) - 5 pts.
>
> Members of Officially Sanctioned Sodalitates - 1 pt
>
> Persons of Authority in Officially Sanctioned Sodalitates - 5 pts
>
> Founders of Officially Sanctioned Sodalitates (can be individuals or
> committee) - 10 pts.
>
> Lictors - 3 pts.
>
> Paterfamilias/Materfamilias - 5 pts
>
> Every Plebian Pater/Mater who brings in a new member will get an
> additional 3 pts PER new member. This is NOT retroactive.
>
> Every Patrician Pater/Mater who brings in a new member will get an
> additional 1 pts PER new member. This is NOT retroactive.
>
> Current Senate Service - 30 pts
> Current Service as Consul or Censor - 40 pts.
> Current Service as Praetor - 30 pts
> Current Service as Tribune of the Plebs - 25 pts
> Current Service as Aedile or Quaestor - 15 pts
> Current Service as Vigin - 10 pts
>
> Past Service as a Curule Magistrate (Censor, Consul, or Praetor) - 15
> pts
> Past Service as a Junior Magistrate (Aedile, Quaestor) - 10 Pts
> Past Service as Vigin - 5 pts.
>
> Dictator - 40 pts
> Master of the Horse - 15 pts
>
> Unsuccessfully ran for office - 2 pts
>
> Successfully completed the Cursus Honorum (in order Quaestor, Praetor
> (or governor), Consul) - 50 pts.
>
> Religio Offices:
>
> Pontifiex Maximus and the 3 Major Flamens (Dialis, Quirinus and
> Martialis) and Rex (Regina) Sacorum- 40 Pts
>
> Members of the College of Pontifices and Augures - 25 Pts
>
> Minor Flamines and other Priesthoods - 15 pts

____

If anyone has questions, comments or criticism I would be pleased to
hear them. Thank you for your time.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor of Nova Roma



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Subject:	[novaroma] ATTN [Religio Romana] ante diem XII Kalendas Septembres (August 21)
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <amg@-------->
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:27:50 +0100

Salvete omnes

This is a dies nefastus publicus (NP), a day for special religious
observance on which no legal action or public business can take place.

Today is the Consualia, the festival of Consus which takes place at the
Circus Maximus, where his altar stands covered with earth in all days of the
year except the Consualia and during horse races. Other deities associated
with cereals are also honoured: Seia, Segetia (or Segesta), Messia
(Goddesses of seeds and harvest), Tutulina (Who preserves the cereals). But
Consus is here specially associated with Ops, the Goddess of provisions.
The celebrations are presided by the Flamen Quirinalis, attended by the
Vestal Virgins. Sacrifice and burnt-offering of first-fruits takes place.
Horse and chariot races are also included in the celebrations. On this day,
all equine beasts of burden are given vacation from labours and decked with
garlands.

Remind that this was the day of the rape of the Sabine women, an event
associated with the burried altar of Consus which served as the bait. After
finding the altar, Romulus invited the Sabines to attend a feast in honour
of Consus (the first Consualia), expecting that their amazement with the
progress of the works in the new city would make them consent the marriage
between their daughters and the Romans. Seeing that this was not
accomplished, Romulus ordered the kidnap and rape of the Sabine women, an
act that started a war between the Romans and the sorrounding communities.
But the war did not last forever and soon Romans and Sabines became one
nation.

According to the Fasti Vallenses this is also the aniversary of the
dedication of a temple of Consus on the Aventine, vowed or built in 272 BCE
by L. Papirius Cursor at the time of his victory in southern Italy. The date
of December 21st provided in the Fasti Amiterni may correspond to a later
restoration by Augustus.


Bene valete in pace deorum,
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex




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Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Am I reading this right?
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 08:34:58 -0400

Salve

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fortunatus [mailto:labienus@--------]
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 9:55 PM
>
> You are correct in almost all of your conclusions.
>
> First, the constitution does not list provincial officials among the
> heading "magistrates". However, as Lex Vedia Apparitoria specifically
> mentions provincial governors among those who have "the Constitutional
> authority to appoint scribae," the law clearly means that provincial
> scribae and lictores do, indeed, qualify for the award.

Quite correct. As governors possess Imperium, they can appoint lictores, and
they are granted the authority to appoint scribae by the Constitution.

> I would therefore suggest to all provincial governors that they
> immediately re-appoint any legati currently serving them as scribae, in
> order that these people might be rewarded for their work.

That would seem to be a good short term solution, until we get the whole
system fixed up.

Vale,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Ohio Roman Day Feast Menu
From:	Centurion M Bianchius Antonius <imperialreign@-------->
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 04:52:50 -0700 (PDT)

We will have plenty of pics...


M. Bianchius Antonius


--- Robert Woolwine <alexious@--------> wrote:
> Ave,
>
> Please take pics...I love seeing pics of fellow Nova
> Romans meeting
> each other...it allows those of us who live
> thousands of miles away
> to be closer!
>
> Vale,
>
> L. Cornelius Sulla
>
> --- In novaroma@--------, Shane Evans
> <marcusafricanus@--------> wrote:
> > Here is the menu for the feast we will be having
> in
> > Columbus, Ohio after the Roman Day event. This is
> a
> > RSVP only dinner, and the cover charge will be
> $15.00.
> > I have tasted the cook's tallents, and I strongly
> > anyone planning to attend the event to stick
> around
> > for the dinner. For RSVP, contact Ancinna Drusila
> > (Asseri@--------) before October first.
> >
> > Menu
> >
> > hard cooked eggs (brown)
> > two types of flavored soft cheeses
> > flat bread
> > herbed olives
> > dried fruits
> > marinated chicken
> > marinated cucumber slices (garum and balsamic
> vinegar)
> >
> > Baian Stew (Simply to die for)
> > lentils and artichokes hearts
> > cannelli bean fixed herb sauce
> > stuffed date fried in honey
> > sliced cantaloupes and red grapes
> > raisin sweetened apple juice and grape juice (no
> > alchohol allowed there)
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute
> with Yahoo!
> Messenger
> > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
>
>


__________________________________________________
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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: The proposed lex on Century Points
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:45:27 -0400

Salve,

The only problem I have with this proposed change is that it does not
support official non-political positions other than priesthoods. If an
appointed legate receives credit, it seems as if I personally am losing out,
seeing that I am a officially appointed retarius. Yet I receive no
recognition.

Other then that one thing it seems like a good and needed change to the
system.


"Quamquam cupido sis delictum ab sui crebro suum mater ab vitualis"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia

Canada Orientalis Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/canorien

Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--

>> Ave,
>>
>> Please put this agenda item on the next Senate call. :)
>>
>> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>> C. Marius Merullus
>> Censors
>> _____________
>>
>> Legates appointed by Imperium bearing Magistrates - 5 pts
>>
>> Apparitores, Accensi, Scribes of Senior Magistrates (Censors, Consuls
>> and Praetors) - 5 pts.
>>
>> Members of Officially Sanctioned Sodalitates - 1 pt
>>
>> Persons of Authority in Officially Sanctioned Sodalitates - 5 pts
>>
>> Founders of Officially Sanctioned Sodalitates (can be individuals or
>> committee) - 10 pts.
>>
>> Lictors - 3 pts.
>>
>> Paterfamilias/Materfamilias - 5 pts
>>
>> Every Plebian Pater/Mater who brings in a new member will get an
>> additional 3 pts PER new member. This is NOT retroactive.
>>
>> Every Patrician Pater/Mater who brings in a new member will get an
>> additional 1 pts PER new member. This is NOT retroactive.
>>
>> Current Senate Service - 30 pts
>> Current Service as Consul or Censor - 40 pts.
>> Current Service as Praetor - 30 pts
>> Current Service as Tribune of the Plebs - 25 pts
>> Current Service as Aedile or Quaestor - 15 pts
>> Current Service as Vigin - 10 pts
>>
>> Past Service as a Curule Magistrate (Censor, Consul, or Praetor) - 15
>> pts
>> Past Service as a Junior Magistrate (Aedile, Quaestor) - 10 Pts
>> Past Service as Vigin - 5 pts.
>>
>> Dictator - 40 pts
>> Master of the Horse - 15 pts
>>
>> Unsuccessfully ran for office - 2 pts
>>
>> Successfully completed the Cursus Honorum (in order Quaestor, Praetor
>> (or governor), Consul) - 50 pts.
>>
>> Religio Offices:
>>
>> Pontifiex Maximus and the 3 Major Flamens (Dialis, Quirinus and
>> Martialis) and Rex (Regina) Sacorum- 40 Pts
>>
>> Members of the College of Pontifices and Augures - 25 Pts
>>
>> Minor Flamines and other Priesthoods - 15 pts
>
> ____
>
> If anyone has questions, comments or criticism I would be pleased to
> hear them. Thank you for your time.





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Subject:	[novaroma] Digest No 1578
From:	"Lucius Equitius" <vze23hw7@-------->
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:27:30 -0400

Salve iterum,

Thank you for your response.I appreciate why you picked Mars, but you really
didn't answer my question.Whether you were planning a private rite or not
and what would be the nature of the ritual. What kind of offering would be
made, if any? That sort of thing.

If you are going to hold a meeting on the 13th of Oct. I believe it would be
more appropriate to honor the deity Fons as the Romans did. I don't know
about everyone else, but I like plenty of clean, healthy water.

Of course, you are free to do in your private worship whatever you like. I
was just curious, as the priest of Mars, what kind of things were being
done. Since becoming Flamen I had written, a few times, every Gens that
listed Mars as a 'Patron Deity' if anyone would be interested in forming the
Sodales Salii, or sharing whatever thoughts/information they liked. I only
received two responses and after I followed those up with more information,
I didn't hear anymore from them. Disappointing, after all reviving the
religio is "The centerpiece of the activities of NOVA ROMA..." Maybe this
short dialog will serve as tinder...

In any case, best of luck.

Vale, Flamen Martialis Lucius Equitius

> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 12:16:51 -0700 (PDT)
> From: PompeiaAntoniaCaesar <europamoon7@-------->
> Subject: Re: Digest No 1577
>
> Salve,
>
> When I decided upon the date for the event I looked up
> the calendar of holidays and festivals on the Pantheon
> site and it stated that October was sacred to the God
> Mars. That is how my decision was made. The rite
> performed at the last event was brief and performed by
> Quintus Fabius Maximus in honor of the Goddess Minerva
> and Fabius will probably perform the ritual at the
> next event as well. I welcome any comments or
> suggestions as to the proper procedure in performing a
> ritual for the upcoming event.
>
> Vale,
>
> Pompeia Antonia Caesar
>
>
> --- Lucius Equitius <vze23hw7@--------> wrote:
> > Salvete,
> >
> > I would like to inquire on the nature of the 'ritual
> > to the God Mars'. Is
> > this a private/family rite?
> > As Flamen Martialis, I am responsible for the
> > 'official' cult of Mars and
> > Nova Roma hasn't the means, yet, to perform a proper
> > Equus October. However,
> > I do perform rituals on behalf of the state on those
> > days devoted to Mars.
> > The 13th of October is actually known to be the
> > 'Fontinalia' in honor of
> > FONS, god of fountains, springs, and wells. On this
> > day garlands of flowers
> > were spread in decoration, especially around wells
> > and springs.
> >
> > Valete, Flamen Martialis Lucius Equitius
> >
> > BTW Today is the fall 'VINALIA", festival of wine.






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Subject:	[novaroma] Slashing and bashing
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 17:45:03 +0200

Salvete Quirites, Druse, Octavi atque pater Formosane,

It's a little hard for me to write following message, since I respect and
like all three of you, but I do have to get something off my chest. Instead
of adding to the pile of paper produced, even if it's digital, I'll try to
be clear and short.

Ok guys, you don't like Formosanus! That's evident. But must you really
attack everything he says? By doing so, you are doing exactly what you
accuse him of - baseless speculating, name-calling, writing long and
excessive postings, and so on. This °really° does not serve any purpose, and
only makes NR's climate more vitriolic. You're all throwing eggs at the man
before he's even opened his mouth!

Valete bene,
S. Apollonius Draco




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] The proposed lex on Century Points
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:21:39 -0700 (PDT)

--- Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
<alexious@--------> wrote:

> >
> > Legates appointed by Imperium bearing Magistrates
> - 5 pts
> >
> > Apparitores, Accensi, Scribes of Senior
> Magistrates (Censors, Consuls
> > and Praetors) - 5 pts.
> >
> > Members of Officially Sanctioned Sodalitates - 1
> pt
> >
> > Persons of Authority in Officially Sanctioned
> Sodalitates - 5 pts
> >
> > Founders of Officially Sanctioned Sodalitates (can
> be individuals or
> > committee) - 10 pts.
> >
> > Lictors - 3 pts.
> >
> > Paterfamilias/Materfamilias - 5 pts
> >
> > Every Plebian Pater/Mater who brings in a new
> member will get an
> > additional 3 pts PER new member. This is NOT
> retroactive.
> >
> > Every Patrician Pater/Mater who brings in a new
> member will get an
> > additional 1 pts PER new member. This is NOT
> retroactive.
> >
> > Current Senate Service - 30 pts
> > Current Service as Consul or Censor - 40 pts.
> > Current Service as Praetor - 30 pts
> > Current Service as Tribune of the Plebs - 25 pts
> > Current Service as Aedile or Quaestor - 15 pts
> > Current Service as Vigin - 10 pts
> >
> > Past Service as a Curule Magistrate (Censor,
> Consul, or Praetor) - 15
> > pts
> > Past Service as a Junior Magistrate (Aedile,
> Quaestor) - 10 Pts
> > Past Service as Vigin - 5 pts.
> >
> > Dictator - 40 pts
> > Master of the Horse - 15 pts
> >
> > Unsuccessfully ran for office - 2 pts
> >
> > Successfully completed the Cursus Honorum (in
> order Quaestor, Praetor
> > (or governor), Consul) - 50 pts.
> >
> > Religio Offices:
> >
> > Pontifiex Maximus and the 3 Major Flamens (Dialis,
> Quirinus and
> > Martialis) and Rex (Regina) Sacorum- 40 Pts
> >
> > Members of the College of Pontifices and Augures -
> 25 Pts
> >
> > Minor Flamines and other Priesthoods - 15 pts
>
> ____
>
> If anyone has questions, comments or criticism I
> would be pleased to
> hear them. Thank you for your time.
>
> Vale,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> Censor of Nova Roma
>

Salvete,

There are some excellent ideas here. The main problem
I see is the increased workload this would place on
the Censors. I think the best way to avoid this
problem would be Splitting the workload.

Entering newly elected officals and points for failing
to get Elected would be the resopnsibility of the
Rogatars

Any Points for the Sodalitates would be the
resopnsibility of the Aediles.

Religio Points would be entered by the Pontif Maximus.

Provincial Points would be handled by a Senatorial
Scribe.

Delegating the work like this will avoid placing too
large a burden on the Censors.

Valete,
L. Sicinius Drusus


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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Slashing and bashing
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 12:36:28 -0500 (CDT)

Salve Draco,

> It's a little hard for me to write following message, since I respect and
> like all three of you, but I do have to get something off my chest.

I respect and like you, and therefore I am quite saddened by what you
have written below:

> Ok guys, you don't like Formosanus! That's evident. But must you really
> attack everything he says? ... You're all throwing eggs at the man
> before he's even opened his mouth!

*He* attacked first. This is readily apparent to anyone who has read
the current thread. If he had not made a baseless and false accusation,
then none of my responses to him would have ever been made.

Please go back and read the beginning of the current debate. To paint
Formosanus as the victim is absurd.

Vale, Octavius.

--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator

"... one of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that,
lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of
their C programs." -- Robert Firth




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Slashing and bashing
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:41:12 -0700 (PDT)

--- "S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
wrote:
> Salvete Quirites, Druse, Octavi atque pater
> Formosane,
>
> It's a little hard for me to write following
> message, since I respect and
> like all three of you, but I do have to get
> something off my chest. Instead
> of adding to the pile of paper produced, even if
> it's digital, I'll try to
> be clear and short.
>
> Ok guys, you don't like Formosanus! That's evident.
> But must you really
> attack everything he says? By doing so, you are
> doing exactly what you
> accuse him of - baseless speculating, name-calling,
> writing long and
> excessive postings, and so on. This °really° does
> not serve any purpose, and
> only makes NR's climate more vitriolic. You're all
> throwing eggs at the man
> before he's even opened his mouth!
>
> Valete bene,
> S. Apollonius Draco
>
>

Salve,

Actually I rather like your Pater, as a person. I do
have my disagreements with many of his political
views, but I am capable of separating politics and
people.

I have done no more than point out that your Pater is
starting to sound like a candidate. I Have heard
rumors that he is considering a run for office. I have
given him an chance to confirm or deny these rumors,
and if he does intend to run for office, the chance to
let us know if he intends to use the divisive
political tactics that he has used in the past.

Vale,
L. Sicinius Drusus

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Subject:	[novaroma] Ohio Roman Day Feast Menu, Digest Number 1580
From:	"Sybil Leek" <DolanAp@-------->
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:01:53 -0700

> > Did the
> >
>
> well, raisin yes. The others I'm not sure. I remember that
>Elizabeth the 1st favorite dish was roasted chicken stuff wth rice and
>licorice cause it was a fairly new flaver and all the rage. It is native to
>southern and central Europe. Possibly avaliable.
>
> Ginger is a tropical plant. my copy of "the herb book" by John lust
>says it is native to tropical Asia. Rome did do a lot of trade .
I did a quick look at one book and it does list Ginger as a proper spice.
>
>but your question should be: did they use them in the appliction you are
>suggesting. That I can't answere. I can't only suggest keep looking and
>educate yourself!
>
>A. Drusila

Salvete,

I saw this post and thought of past readings on the topic. It looks like you
have a very good start on the menu and I hope that all goes well for you.
Here is a small list of books that might be of interest to you, concerning
Roman food and festal feasting.

Author: Newton, Derek, Ph.D
Title: Deity and diet : the dilemma of sacrificial food at Corinth / Derek
Newton
Publisher: Sheffield, Eng. : Sheffield Academic Press, c1998
ISBN: 1850759324

Title: Meals in a social context : aspects of the communal meal in the
Hellenistic and Roman world / edited by Inge Nielsen and Hanne Sigismund
Nielsen
Publisher: Aarhus : Aarhus University Press, c1998
ISBN: 8772886978

Author: Garnsey, Peter
Title: Food and society in classical antiquity / Peter Garnsey
Publisher Cambridge, U.K. ; New York : Cambridge University Press, 1999
ISBN: 0521641829 (hardback)
0521645883 (paperback)

Author: Dalby, Andrew, 1947-
Title: The classical cookbook / Andrew Dalby and Sally Grainger
Publisher Los Angeles, Calif. : J. Paul Getty Museum, c1996
ISBN: 0892363940

A note: on spices of the Romans, I know that Rue (Ruta graveolens) was
heavily used in common home dishes, however this may not be the case for
festal feasting or specific regions. Also as regards ginger, there are
several forms of this plant under the family Zingiberaceae, Zingiber
officinalis (common name: African Ginger or Golden Ginger) is only one and
is a tropical plant of Asia. However, there are also White and Brown ginger
that grow in temperate zones. I live in the northwest region of the U.S.A.
and we have a native white ginger that grows wild here in the mountains. If
the above books shed no light on your quest I would suggest looking for
books that deal specifically with Herbs and their culinary uses in classical
time. Good luck with the feast and I am very happy to know that you are
hosting such a gathering.

Vale Prima Nocta Ritulia,

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] The proposed lex on Century Points
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@-------->
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:12:50 -0700

"L. Sicinius Drusus" wrote:
>
> --- Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> <alexious@--------> wrote:
>
> > >
> > > Legates appointed by Imperium bearing Magistrates
> > - 5 pts
> > >
> > > Apparitores, Accensi, Scribes of Senior
> > Magistrates (Censors, Consuls
> > > and Praetors) - 5 pts.
> > >
> > > Members of Officially Sanctioned Sodalitates - 1
> > pt
> > >
> > > Persons of Authority in Officially Sanctioned
> > Sodalitates - 5 pts
> > >
> > > Founders of Officially Sanctioned Sodalitates (can
> > be individuals or
> > > committee) - 10 pts.
> > >
> > > Lictors - 3 pts.
> > >
> > > Paterfamilias/Materfamilias - 5 pts
> > >
> > > Every Plebian Pater/Mater who brings in a new
> > member will get an
> > > additional 3 pts PER new member. This is NOT
> > retroactive.
> > >
> > > Every Patrician Pater/Mater who brings in a new
> > member will get an
> > > additional 1 pts PER new member. This is NOT
> > retroactive.
> > >
> > > Current Senate Service - 30 pts
> > > Current Service as Consul or Censor - 40 pts.
> > > Current Service as Praetor - 30 pts
> > > Current Service as Tribune of the Plebs - 25 pts
> > > Current Service as Aedile or Quaestor - 15 pts
> > > Current Service as Vigin - 10 pts
> > >
> > > Past Service as a Curule Magistrate (Censor,
> > Consul, or Praetor) - 15
> > > pts
> > > Past Service as a Junior Magistrate (Aedile,
> > Quaestor) - 10 Pts
> > > Past Service as Vigin - 5 pts.
> > >
> > > Dictator - 40 pts
> > > Master of the Horse - 15 pts
> > >
> > > Unsuccessfully ran for office - 2 pts
> > >
> > > Successfully completed the Cursus Honorum (in
> > order Quaestor, Praetor
> > > (or governor), Consul) - 50 pts.
> > >
> > > Religio Offices:
> > >
> > > Pontifiex Maximus and the 3 Major Flamens (Dialis,
> > Quirinus and
> > > Martialis) and Rex (Regina) Sacorum- 40 Pts
> > >
> > > Members of the College of Pontifices and Augures -
> > 25 Pts
> > >
> > > Minor Flamines and other Priesthoods - 15 pts
> >
> > ____
> >
> > If anyone has questions, comments or criticism I
> > would be pleased to
> > hear them. Thank you for your time.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> > Censor of Nova Roma
> >
>
> Salvete,
>
> There are some excellent ideas here. The main problem
> I see is the increased workload this would place on
> the Censors. I think the best way to avoid this
> problem would be Splitting the workload.
>
> Entering newly elected officals and points for failing
> to get Elected would be the resopnsibility of the
> Rogatars
>
> Any Points for the Sodalitates would be the
> resopnsibility of the Aediles.
>
> Religio Points would be entered by the Pontif Maximus.
>
> Provincial Points would be handled by a Senatorial
> Scribe.
>
> Delegating the work like this will avoid placing too
> large a burden on the Censors.

Ave,

I think that the Censors need to check the information to make sure the
information is accurate. The way I see it working is that the
Governors, PM, or other magistrates would notify the Censors who can
assign their scribe to notate the necessary points. The Censors do not
have the time to dot every i and cross every T. But, they should be
able to oversee the general process. Its like the quote that Pompeia
Cornelia said,

"If city hall sends me a ridiculously high tax bill, I am going to
write them to dispute it; I am not going to just sit and assume that
they will *catch* the error, then get upset if they don't :)" But you,
if you receive a ridiculously high tax bill must call someone to get
that bill resolved, that would be the Censors, in this case, as we have
the authority to fix the situation.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor



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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Slashing and bashing
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:48:55 -0500 (CDT)

(private)

Salve Luci Sicini,

> I have done no more than point out that your Pater is
> starting to sound like a candidate. I Have heard
> rumors that he is considering a run for office.

I've heard this too, by way of Sulla and Fabius. He's planning
to run for Censor. I had already decided to run for Censor myself,
about a week ago, so this will certainly be an interesting race!

Vale, Octavius.

M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator

"... one of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that,
lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of
their C programs." -- Robert Firth




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Slashing and bashing
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:53:27 -0500 (CDT)

I apologize to all for my misdirected private mail.


M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator

"... one of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that,
lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of
their C programs." -- Robert Firth




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] The proposed lex on Century Points
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:48:00 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete omnes; et salve, Censor Sulla

First of all, let me congratulate you for your proposal to modify the
current century points assignation procedure. I do agree with you in
that the current law (and system) needs an update.

With your permission, I would like to make a few comments on your
proposals:

--- Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@--------> wrote:
>
> > Legates appointed by Imperium bearing Magistrates - 5 pts

What do you mean by "legates"? Are you using a strict constitutional
definition, or maybe a more flexible one like "an advisor of a
propraetor"? If the second possibility is the correct one, then I
couldn't agree more with you.

> > Apparitores, Accensi, Scribes of Senior Magistrates (Censors,
> Consuls
> > and Praetors) - 5 pts.
> >
> > Members of Officially Sanctioned Sodalitates - 1 pt
> >
> > Persons of Authority in Officially Sanctioned Sodalitates - 5 pts
> >
> > Founders of Officially Sanctioned Sodalitates (can be individuals
> or
> > committee) - 10 pts.

These three are my favourites. A small reward for our hard working
sodales seems in order.

> > Lictors - 3 pts.

Now I just want to increase my knowledge: what are the functions of the
lictores? Is theirs a mainly honorary title, or they do have specific
duties?

> > Paterfamilias/Materfamilias - 5 pts
> >
> > Every Plebian Pater/Mater who brings in a new member will get an
> > additional 3 pts PER new member. This is NOT retroactive.
> >
> > Every Patrician Pater/Mater who brings in a new member will get an
> > additional 1 pts PER new member. This is NOT retroactive.

I would like the spirit of these three, although I think that the whole
gens system should be revised, as you well known. I could see some way
to implement this AFTER the reform.

I also guess you are talking about bringing a new member to their gens.
Is this correct?

> > Current Senate Service - 30 pts
> > Current Service as Consul or Censor - 40 pts.
> > Current Service as Praetor - 30 pts
> > Current Service as Tribune of the Plebs - 25 pts
> > Current Service as Aedile or Quaestor - 15 pts
> > Current Service as Vigin - 10 pts
> >
> > Past Service as a Curule Magistrate (Censor, Consul, or Praetor) -
> 15
> > pts
> > Past Service as a Junior Magistrate (Aedile, Quaestor) - 10 Pts
> > Past Service as Vigin - 5 pts.
> >
> > Dictator - 40 pts
> > Master of the Horse - 15 pts
> >
> > Unsuccessfully ran for office - 2 pts

Nothing to add. I agree.

> > Successfully completed the Cursus Honorum (in order Quaestor,
> Praetor
> > (or governor), Consul) - 50 pts.

I also like this one.

> > Religio Offices:
> >
> > Pontifiex Maximus and the 3 Major Flamens (Dialis, Quirinus and
> > Martialis) and Rex (Regina) Sacorum- 40 Pts
> >
> > Members of the College of Pontifices and Augures - 25 Pts
> >
> > Minor Flamines and other Priesthoods - 15 pts

Nothing to add.



=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Slashing and bashing
From:	amg@--------
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 19:44:18 -0000

Salve Sexte Apolloni

As electronic communication often looses information about one
person's mood, I start by stating that I am calm and smiling.

I proceed now, to my message.

There is no doubt that the objective Formosanus is to play the game
for power. He has no interest in the development of Nova Roma and he
defends his ideas simply because the Senate, the other magistrates
and the other canditates defend the opposite, which is to rebuild
Roma with a political regime as close as possible from the ancient
Roman Republic, the "Age of Gold" of the Roman civilisation in terms
of honour, discipline and determination. As Formosanus sees that he
is unable to be noted enough (this, of course, measured against his
vanity and selfishness) for defending this common meaningful
objective of Nova Roma (and the one that presided its very
foundation), he just wants to be different and create his own
nonsense goals for Nova Roma, independently of the price to be paid:
the ultimate destruction by the corruption of the social and
governmental structures. His tactics are simply to launch discredit
on the magistrates and Senate, to provoke a mass of people to leave
Nova Roma, convincing the remaining citizens to vote him to power as
a desperate solution to the virtual crisis he has created. In summary
that man wants to play Caesar.

I am only amazed that you Sexte Apolloni - a man who I consider
intelligent and capable -, that you follow this man who games Nova
Roma in a daily basis luring the most naive into the dark paths of
treason. Yes, I say treason because his past statements against Nova
Roma including his confession that he does not wish to contribute
further to its expansion, would be enough for a trial by the very
people he wants to cheat. And the only reason why this was not done
already is because those whom he accuses of being oligarchs are not
as evil as he portrays them, their objective being solely to act as
true Roman magistrates in a true Roman system, even when the
defamation promoted by that man would tempt even the most wise to
seek revenge.

Vale bene in pace deorum,
Antonius Gryllus Graecus






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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] The proposed lex on Century Points
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@-------->
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:10:20 -0700

Gnaeus Salix Astur wrote:
>
> Salvete omnes; et salve, Censor Sulla
>
> First of all, let me congratulate you for your proposal to modify the
> current century points assignation procedure. I do agree with you in
> that the current law (and system) needs an update.

Ave,

Thank you very much. However, let me state I do not deserve all of the
credit for this piece of legislation. C. Marius Merullus was co-author
and I believe that T. Labienus Fortunatus contributed to this as well.

> With your permission, I would like to make a few comments on your
> proposals:
>
> --- Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@--------> wrote:
> >
> > > Legates appointed by Imperium bearing Magistrates - 5 pts
>
> What do you mean by "legates"? Are you using a strict constitutional
> definition, or maybe a more flexible one like "an advisor of a
> propraetor"? If the second possibility is the correct one, then I
> couldn't agree more with you.

Well this is one area that now, I would like to properly define. I
would like to see a lex defining what it means to be a Legate. There
needs to be some consensous throughout our provinca on just what it
means to be a legate. Til that is properly defined, I would abide by a
strict constitutional sense. I take this position presently because the
way our provincias have developed there has developed a proliferation of
titles and I would like to find a way to organize and add some structure
to our provincia organization.

> > > Apparitores, Accensi, Scribes of Senior Magistrates (Censors,
> > Consuls
> > > and Praetors) - 5 pts.
> > >
> > > Members of Officially Sanctioned Sodalitates - 1 pt
> > >
> > > Persons of Authority in Officially Sanctioned Sodalitates - 5 pts
> > >
> > > Founders of Officially Sanctioned Sodalitates (can be individuals
> > or
> > > committee) - 10 pts.
>
> These three are my favourites. A small reward for our hard working
> sodales seems in order.

Thank you. This is one of my favorites too.

> > > Lictors - 3 pts.
>
> Now I just want to increase my knowledge: what are the functions of
> the
> lictores? Is theirs a mainly honorary title, or they do have specific
> duties?

Here I mean members of the Curiata. These are the individuals who
confer Imperium on our Imperium bearing magistrates.

> > > Paterfamilias/Materfamilias - 5 pts
> > >
> > > Every Plebian Pater/Mater who brings in a new member will get an
> > > additional 3 pts PER new member. This is NOT retroactive.
> > >
> > > Every Patrician Pater/Mater who brings in a new member will get an
> > > additional 1 pts PER new member. This is NOT retroactive.
>
> I would like the spirit of these three, although I think that the
> whole
> gens system should be revised, as you well known. I could see some way
> to implement this AFTER the reform.

Well I would like to implement it now...and then make changes if the
reform passes. There is always a chance that it wont pass...and this
would be covering our bases either way.

> I also guess you are talking about bringing a new member to their
> gens.
> Is this correct?

Yes...exactly a reward for recruitment.

> > > Current Senate Service - 30 pts
> > > Current Service as Consul or Censor - 40 pts.
> > > Current Service as Praetor - 30 pts
> > > Current Service as Tribune of the Plebs - 25 pts
> > > Current Service as Aedile or Quaestor - 15 pts
> > > Current Service as Vigin - 10 pts
> > >
> > > Past Service as a Curule Magistrate (Censor, Consul, or Praetor) -
> > 15
> > > pts
> > > Past Service as a Junior Magistrate (Aedile, Quaestor) - 10 Pts
> > > Past Service as Vigin - 5 pts.
> > >
> > > Dictator - 40 pts
> > > Master of the Horse - 15 pts
> > >
> > > Unsuccessfully ran for office - 2 pts
>
> Nothing to add. I agree.

Thank you.

> > > Successfully completed the Cursus Honorum (in order Quaestor,
> > Praetor
> > > (or governor), Consul) - 50 pts.
>
> I also like this one.

Thank you, I thought it would be an excellent way to revive the Cursus
Honorum without legislating it as a mandatory way.

> > > Religio Offices:
> > >
> > > Pontifiex Maximus and the 3 Major Flamens (Dialis, Quirinus and
> > > Martialis) and Rex (Regina) Sacorum- 40 Pts
> > >
> > > Members of the College of Pontifices and Augures - 25 Pts
> > >
> > > Minor Flamines and other Priesthoods - 15 pts
>
> Nothing to add.

Excellent.

I hope my comments assisted you.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor

> =====
> Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
> Gnaeus Salix Astur.
> Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.
>
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Slashing and bashing
From:	"Maia Apollonia Pica" <mjarc@-------->
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 21:07:05 +0200

Salve, Senator Marce Octavi Germanice. Tu scripsisti:

> *He* attacked first. This is readily apparent to anyone who has read
> the current thread. If he had not made a baseless and false
> accusation, then none of my responses to him would have ever been
> made.
>
> Please go back and read the beginning of the current debate. To paint
> Formosanus as the victim is absurd.

Actually I also think if anybody is interested, they would do well to
go to the beginning of this. My pater's "attack" was a conerned
response to a post which looked alarming. If there was a
misunderstanding, why make it into such a row?

Here is an example of what seems excessive aggression to me. Marcus
Apollonius Formosanus used the term "right-wing", and you, Senator,
wrote:

> "right-wing" and "left-wing" describe extremes, and Vedius'
> statement (which I agree with completely) is moderate and centrist
> The "right-wing" position is not republicanism, it's fascism.

Well, _you_ are a native speaker; I rely on dictionaries. This is
what my little Oxford says: "right wing (politics) those who support
more conservative or traditional policies than others in a group,
party etc." Example of use: "on the right wing of the Labour Party".
Should I throw it away?

Vale

Maia Apollonia Pica





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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Slashing and bashing
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 22:10:04 +0200

Salve Antoni Grylle,

>
> As electronic communication often looses information about one
> person's mood, I start by stating that I am calm and smiling.
>

Allright. I'm grinning.

> I proceed now, to my message.
>
> There is no doubt that the objective Formosanus is to play the game
> for power. He has no interest in the development of Nova Roma and he
> defends his ideas simply because the Senate, the other magistrates
> and the other canditates defend the opposite, which is to rebuild
> Roma with a political regime as close as possible from the ancient
> Roman Republic, the "Age of Gold" of the Roman civilisation in terms
> of honour, discipline and determination.

I might add: "according to those people's vision". Formosanus wants to
revive what he sees as the best of Rome, and his opponents want to do the
same. It's just their interpretations, which are a consequence of their
personal philosophies and modern world ideas, that make them clash. I don't
think it's got anything to do with destruction.

> As Formosanus sees that he
> is unable to be noted enough (this, of course, measured against his
> vanity and selfishness) for defending this common meaningful
> objective of Nova Roma (and the one that presided its very
> foundation), he just wants to be different and create his own
> nonsense goals for Nova Roma, independently of the price to be paid:
> the ultimate destruction by the corruption of the social and
> governmental structures. His tactics are simply to launch discredit
> on the magistrates and Senate, to provoke a mass of people to leave
> Nova Roma, convincing the remaining citizens to vote him to power as
> a desperate solution to the virtual crisis he has created. In summary
> that man wants to play Caesar.
>

If I were a second Caesar, I would play the game differently! I would
befriend everyone, and get so influential and knowing that I can develop an
entire secret faction, and then overthrow my opponents, who don't even know
they are my opponents. Seriously, if Formosanus were a second Caesar in the
making, he would act with more intelligence. His purpose is to revert
legislation which he perceives as injust, and and not necessarily provoking
mass hysteria.

> I am only amazed that you Sexte Apolloni - a man who I consider
> intelligent and capable -, that you follow this man who games Nova
> Roma in a daily basis luring the most naive into the dark paths of
> treason. Yes, I say treason because his past statements against Nova
> Roma including his confession that he does not wish to contribute
> further to its expansion, would be enough for a trial by the very
> people he wants to cheat. And the only reason why this was not done
> already is because those whom he accuses of being oligarchs are not
> as evil as he portrays them, their objective being solely to act as
> true Roman magistrates in a true Roman system, even when the
> defamation promoted by that man would tempt even the most wise to
> seek revenge.
>

There has already been sought revenge at the Apollonii, and the whole gens
has already suffered under vicious attacks. Besides, I don't think it's up
to anyone to decide who is a true Roman, and who isn't. I wonder what proof
you have to offer for these allegations.

For the record, I don't follow anyone but myself. And even that person might
be unreliable ;).

Vale bene!
S. Apollonius Draco





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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Slashing and bashing
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@-------->
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 13:21:07 -0700

<Snip>

> > "right-wing" and "left-wing" describe extremes, and Vedius'
> > statement (which I agree with completely) is moderate and centrist
> > The "right-wing" position is not republicanism, it's fascism.
>
> Well, _you_ are a native speaker; I rely on dictionaries. This is
> what my little Oxford says: "right wing (politics) those who support
> more conservative or traditional policies than others in a group,
> party etc." Example of use: "on the right wing of the Labour Party".
> Should I throw it away?

However, M. Apollonius was born and raised in the United States. He
knows the difference. And, what is more is that we know he knows the
difference as well.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix



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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Slashing and bashing
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:36:39 -0500 (CDT)

I have been privately informed that the rumour I inadvertently
posted earlier is probably untrue. I apologize again for the
careless addressing.

--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator

"... one of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that,
lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of
their C programs." -- Robert Firth




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] The proposed lex on Century Points
From:	labienus@--------
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:42:45 US/Central

Salvete

> Thank you very much. However, let me state I do not deserve all of the
> credit for this piece of legislation. C. Marius Merullus was co-author
> and I believe that T. Labienus Fortunatus contributed to this as well.

I did provide a little input, but the lion's share of the credit goes to C
Marius and L Cornelius.

> > > > Legates appointed by Imperium bearing Magistrates - 5 pts
> >
> > What do you mean by "legates"? Are you using a strict constitutional...
>
> Well this is one area that now, I would like to properly define. I
> would like to see a lex defining what it means to be a Legate. There
> needs to be some consensous throughout our provinca on just what it
> means to be a legate. Til that is properly defined, I would abide by a
> strict constitutional sense. I take this position presently because the
> way our provincias have developed there has developed a proliferation of
> titles and I would like to find a way to organize and add some structure
> to our provincia organization.

For purposes of this lex, I would suggest including legati with apparitores,
accensi, and scribae. In fact, I'd just make this a "catch-all" category and
provide 5 points to "assistants of magistrates and provincial governors",
regardless of title. Later, we can tackle making more consistent provincial
organizations. I'd say that this is especially important since there is a
proposal on the table to modify the constitution in order to allow for more
flexibility in provincial titles.

> > > > Lictors - 3 pts.
> >
> > Now I just want to increase my knowledge: what are the functions of
> > the lictores? Is theirs a mainly honorary title, or they do have specific
> > duties?
>
> Here I mean members of the Curiata. These are the individuals who
> confer Imperium on our Imperium bearing magistrates.

Both the lictores curiatae and magisterial lictores are essentially honorary
titles with few real duties. I can actually see more possible duties for
magisterial lictores. Is there really that much reason to discriminate between
the two in the lex?

> > I would like the spirit of these three, although I think that the
> > whole gens system should be revised, as you well known. I could see
> > some way to implement this AFTER the reform.
>
> Well I would like to implement it now...and then make changes if the
> reform passes. There is always a chance that it wont pass...and this
> would be covering our bases either way.

I tend to agree, and see this as an issue similar to provincial titles.
There's no reason to avoid improving the law simply because reform may occur in
the relatively near future.

> > > > Current Senate Service - 30 pts
> > > >
> > > > Past Service as a Curule Magistrate (Censor, Consul, or Praetor) -
> > > > 15 pts

I wonder why we place such a premium on current service. I understand the
desire to encourage continued activity, but in practice the extra points for
current service are only likely to be of benefit for one or two votes. Why not
simply give an award for serving one full year in office, which takes effect at
the end of a magistrate's tenure. This would serve to discourage resignations,
and we could give prorated points for someone who served as a suffectus.
Additionally, this would prevent someone who served one term as an accensus
from losing his 5 points at the end of the year, effectively depriving him of
all reward for having provided some service.

> > > > Successfully completed the Cursus Honorum (in order Quaestor,
> > > > Praetor (or governor), Consul) - 50 pts.
> >
> > I also like this one.
>
> Thank you, I thought it would be an excellent way to revive the Cursus
> Honorum without legislating it as a mandatory way.

I agree with this, though I'd like to see the relative flexibility of the
ancient CH taken into account. The tribunate was an entry point as well as a
quaestorship. Also, if one must follow it in order, then one must be careful
to serve as a quaestor prior to becoming a provincial governor. While this
isn't a bad idea in theory, I'm not sure we want to discourage potential
qualified governors from serving because they haven't managed to become a
quaestor yet.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus





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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Slashing and bashing
From:	labienus@--------
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:59:34 US/Central

Salvete

Without commenting on the merits of either side of this current debate, I
cannot refrain from commenting on the following.

> > > "right-wing" and "left-wing" describe extremes, and Vedius'
> > > statement (which I agree with completely) is moderate and centrist
> > > The "right-wing" position is not republicanism, it's fascism.
> >
> > Well, _you_ are a native speaker; I rely on dictionaries. This is
> > what my little Oxford says: "right wing (politics) those who support
> > more conservative or traditional policies than others in a group,
> > party etc." Example of use: "on the right wing of the Labour Party".
> > Should I throw it away?
>
> However, M. Apollonius was born and raised in the United States. He
> knows the difference. And, what is more is that we know he knows the
> difference as well.

As yet another native speaker of English and a couple of its US dialects, I
must point out that Maia Apollonia's dictionary is entirely correct in its
definition of the term "right wing". Neither it nor its complement, "left
wing", are necessarily descriptions of an extreme belief, and "right wing" is
most certainly *not* necessarily equivalent to fascism. To assert such
equivalence is to apply far too narrow a definition of the term in exactly the
same way that some here insist upon applying too narrow a definition to the
terms "democracy" and "republic". It is not valid to do so in general
conversation, and it almost invariably leads to miscommunication.

M Apollonius' facility with English does not have any bearing on these facts.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus





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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Slashing and bashing
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:08:38 -0500 (CDT)

Salve Maia Apollonia,

> > "right-wing" and "left-wing" describe extremes, and Vedius'
> > statement (which I agree with completely) is moderate and centrist
> > The "right-wing" position is not republicanism, it's fascism.
>
> Well, _you_ are a native speaker; I rely on dictionaries. This is
> what my little Oxford says: "right wing (politics) those who support
> more conservative or traditional policies than others in a group,
> party etc." Example of use: "on the right wing of the Labour Party".
> Should I throw it away?

As a native speaker, I would say that "right-wing" and "left-wing"
both refer to extremists, with the vast majority of persons with
conservative or liberal leanings being a part of neither "wing".
The "right wing" is composed of neo-Nazis, gay-bashers, and
groups like the "Christian Coalition", while the "left wing"
includes Communists, socialists, and bomb-throwing anarchists.
Most people aren't part of any of that.

Your dictionary definition claims that the right wing includes
those who are more conservative "than others in a group". With
a sufficiently ridiculous "group", then, anyone can be labeled
as right-wing. (Imagine if we locked Al Gore and Jesse Jackson
together in a room - Gore would then be "right wing" by the
dictionary definition, but it's absurd to consider him such by
the way the phrase is commonly used.)

I don't believe anyone here is "right wing" (or, for that matter,
"left wing"). Let us leave those words for Klansmen and Communists.

Vale, Octavius.

--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator

"... one of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that,
lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of
their C programs." -- Robert Firth




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Slashing and bashing
From:	"Maia Apollonia Pica" <mjarc@-------->
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 23:02:28 +0200

Salvete omnes, salve Censor Luci Corneli Sulla Felix. You wrote:

> However, M. Apollonius was born and raised in the United States. He
> knows the difference. And, what is more is that we know he knows the
> difference as well.

Of course. But could you please explain? Is there such a huge
difference between American and British usage? Webster has a
different wording but the same sense. So why should Senator Octavius
suggest M. Apollonius doesn't know the difference? There was nothing
in the original post to imply it. And just like calling someone a
fascist would be a serious accusation and act of aggression, so is
saying someone has unjustifiably called another a fascist.

Valete
Maia Apollonia Pica




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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] The proposed lex on Century Points
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:26:57 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete omnes; et salve, Censor Sulla.

--- Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@--------> wrote:
> I hope my comments assisted you.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> Censor

Certainly they have, censor. Thank you for taking the time.

However, after reading the comments on your proposals made by our
tribune Fortunatus, I have to say that his suggestions are worthy of
much consideration. I pray you to read them in a good light, for I can
see that your proposals coupled with Fortunatus's small considerations
could produce a bill that I would definitely support.


=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma]Attacking the Apollonii?
From:	QFabiusMaxmi@--------
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 17:36:59 EDT

Salvete!

First off I must say how pleased I am to see the Apollonii close ranks and
protect the Paterfamilias. How Roman! How correct! I salute you all.

In a message dated 8/21/01 1:20:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
hendrik.meuleman@-------- writes:
> I might add: "according to those people's vision". Formosanus wants to
> revive what he sees as the best of Rome, and his opponents want to do the
> same. It's just their interpretations, which are a consequence of their
> personal philosophies and modern world ideas, that make them clash. I don't
> think it's got anything to do with destruction.
>

My biggest concern is the lack of trust that Marcus Apollonius has fostered
among the Senate and ranking magistrates. The man has belittled those
efforts more then once, and his vision, while interesting, does not come at
all close to that of the Senate or many of the people.
If he has turned over a "new leaf," then I applaud the effort, but it is too
early to tell this. We simply view him with concern and trepidation, neither
which gives him support in a major magistracy.

> If I were a second Caesar, I would play the game differently! I would
> befriend everyone, and get so influential and knowing that I can develop an
> entire secret faction, and then overthrow my opponents, who don't even know
> they are my opponents. Seriously, if Formosanus were a second Caesar in the
> making, he would act with more intelligence. His purpose is to revert
> legislation which he perceives as unjust, and not necessarily provoking
> mass hysteria.

Thanks for the warning Sextus Apollonius! I always knew you were a dangerous
man <G>
While I understand Marcus Apollonius does not like some legislation,
disclosing plans to repel it while the authors are still in office doesn't
endear himself to those people.

>
> There has already been sought revenge at the Apollonii, and the whole gens
> has already suffered under vicious attacks. Besides, I don't think it's up
> to anyone to decide who is a true Roman, and who isn't. I wonder what proof
> you have to offer for these allegations.
>
But did not the Apollonii bring it on themselves, with the "digital bomb"
rhetoric, "the "overthrow the oligarchs" posture and the nasty name calling?
They were left alone until then. Trampling on other peoples' life work might
be a lark for you, but those people tend take this seriously, and get upset
when you say it is (political position here). In fact like you, many do not
like it when they or their efforts, are insulted. Think about that before
you post again.


> For the record, I don't follow anyone but myself. And even that person might
> be unreliable ;).
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Subject:	[novaroma] I'm back. :)
From:	Andrea Gladia Cyrene <andrea_gladia@-------->
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:08:47 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete omnes,


Sorry for my extended absense, but my company cut off 3% of its
workplace, and my position was one of those cut. At this time, it
looks like the tech market in my area is lacking and I need to move to
a new area with a more established tech industry. I've chosen to go to
Boston, as I've been witnessing 10-20 jobs posted a day that I'm
qualified for, versus... 0 in Albany.

I should be online far more often now that I have to be online in order
to apply to all of these places. But I guess the gods have more in
store for me yet.

I did indeed miss you all, and look forward to engaging in discussions
again.


Valete,

=====
Andrea Gladia Cyrene
Apollinis Templi Sacerdotis
Materfamilias of Gladia
*******************************************
Yahoo: kyreneariadne / andrea_gladia / andrea_m_berman
AIM: Kyrene Ariadne ICQ: 6663573
http://TempleApollo.faithweb.com/index.html

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: The proposed lex on Century Points
From:	"Robert Woolwine" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 22:15:25 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, labienus@t... wrote:
> Salvete
>
> > Thank you very much. However, let me state I do not deserve all
of the
> > credit for this piece of legislation. C. Marius Merullus was co-
author
> > and I believe that T. Labienus Fortunatus contributed to this as
well.
>
> I did provide a little input, but the lion's share of the credit
goes to C
> Marius and L Cornelius.
>
> > > > > Legates appointed by Imperium bearing Magistrates - 5 pts
> > >
> > > What do you mean by "legates"? Are you using a strict
constitutional...
> >
> > Well this is one area that now, I would like to properly define.
I
> > would like to see a lex defining what it means to be a Legate.
There
> > needs to be some consensous throughout our provinca on just what
it
> > means to be a legate. Til that is properly defined, I would
abide by a
> > strict constitutional sense. I take this position presently
because the
> > way our provincias have developed there has developed a
proliferation of
> > titles and I would like to find a way to organize and add some
structure
> > to our provincia organization.
>
> For purposes of this lex, I would suggest including legati with
apparitores,
> accensi, and scribae. In fact, I'd just make this a "catch-all"
category and
> provide 5 points to "assistants of magistrates and provincial
governors",
> regardless of title. Later, we can tackle making more consistent
provincial
> organizations. I'd say that this is especially important since
there is a
> proposal on the table to modify the constitution in order to allow
for more
> flexibility in provincial titles.

Sulla: I dont have a problem with that at all. I just feel that we
really need to start defining this as soon as we can...considering
that eventually we will have provinces with 10+ Legates. That can be
used to abuse the current system, IMHO.

> > > > > Lictors - 3 pts.
> > >
> > > Now I just want to increase my knowledge: what are the
functions of
> > > the lictores? Is theirs a mainly honorary title, or they do
have specific
> > > duties?
> >
> > Here I mean members of the Curiata. These are the individuals who
> > confer Imperium on our Imperium bearing magistrates.
>
> Both the lictores curiatae and magisterial lictores are essentially
honorary
> titles with few real duties. I can actually see more possible
duties for
> magisterial lictores. Is there really that much reason to
discriminate between
> the two in the lex?

Well, we really dont have magisterial lictors. I would really like
to see a need for magisterial lictors before we grant them century
points. Whereas, lictores curiatae serve an important, though
ceremonial purpose by granting Imperium on incoming magistrates.
Basically I would want to see an actual Lictor walking infront of a
magistrate in a ceremony before points are awarded to him. This is
just my personal opinion on this part.

> > > I would like the spirit of these three, although I think that
the
> > > whole gens system should be revised, as you well known. I could
see
> > > some way to implement this AFTER the reform.
> >
> > Well I would like to implement it now...and then make changes if
the
> > reform passes. There is always a chance that it wont pass...and
this
> > would be covering our bases either way.
>
> I tend to agree, and see this as an issue similar to provincial
titles.
> There's no reason to avoid improving the law simply because reform
may occur in
> the relatively near future.

Thank you for your agreement.

> > > > > Current Senate Service - 30 pts
> > > > >
> > > > > Past Service as a Curule Magistrate (Censor, Consul, or
Praetor) -
> > > > > 15 pts
>
> I wonder why we place such a premium on current service. I
understand the
> desire to encourage continued activity, but in practice the extra
points for
> current service are only likely to be of benefit for one or two
votes. Why not
> simply give an award for serving one full year in office, which
takes effect at
> the end of a magistrate's tenure. This would serve to discourage
resignations,
> and we could give prorated points for someone who served as a
suffectus.
> Additionally, this would prevent someone who served one term as an
accensus
> from losing his 5 points at the end of the year, effectively
depriving him of
> all reward for having provided some service.

I think this is important. These are individuals who have served the
Republic and have vast experience in governance to aid those who are
currently or soon to be governing the Republic. I think its a
reasonable point total given the knowledge that can still contribute
to the Republic in ways other than continually serving in political
offices.

> > > > > Successfully completed the Cursus Honorum (in order
Quaestor,
> > > > > Praetor (or governor), Consul) - 50 pts.
> > >
> > > I also like this one.
> >
> > Thank you, I thought it would be an excellent way to revive the
Cursus
> > Honorum without legislating it as a mandatory way.
>
> I agree with this, though I'd like to see the relative flexibility
of the
> ancient CH taken into account. The tribunate was an entry point as
well as a
> quaestorship. Also, if one must follow it in order, then one must
be careful
> to serve as a quaestor prior to becoming a provincial governor.
While this
> isn't a bad idea in theory, I'm not sure we want to discourage
potential
> qualified governors from serving because they haven't managed to
become a
> quaestor yet.

Well we can add the Tribune of the Plebs - Praetor (or governorship) -
Consul as a way to complete the Cursus. I have no problem including
that.

However, I must disagree with your final portion. The purpose of the
Cursus Honorum was to complete it in order, this is the closest way
we found that we could foster this development, without legislating
it. This should be viewed as an option, for a citizen to try to
accomplish, it is not mandatory.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor

> Valete
> T Labienus Fortunatus

Subject:	RE: [novaroma] I'm back. :)
From:	"C. Minucius Hadrianus" <shinjikun@-------->
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:41:41 -0400

Salve,

If you do end up in the Boston area let me know! :) We're always happy to
get new civies, even if it's from immigration as opposed to recruiting ~_^

Vale,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Legatus of Massachusetts


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrea Gladia Cyrene [mailto:andrea_gladia@--------]
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 6:09 PM
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: [novaroma] I'm back. :)


Salvete omnes,


Sorry for my extended absense, but my company cut off 3% of its
workplace, and my position was one of those cut. At this time, it
looks like the tech market in my area is lacking and I need to move to
a new area with a more established tech industry. I've chosen to go to
Boston, as I've been witnessing 10-20 jobs posted a day that I'm
qualified for, versus... 0 in Albany.

I should be online far more often now that I have to be online in order
to apply to all of these places. But I guess the gods have more in
store for me yet.

I did indeed miss you all, and look forward to engaging in discussions
again.


Valete,

=====
Andrea Gladia Cyrene
Apollinis Templi Sacerdotis
Materfamilias of Gladia
*******************************************
Yahoo: kyreneariadne / andrea_gladia / andrea_m_berman
AIM: Kyrene Ariadne ICQ: 6663573
http://TempleApollo.faithweb.com/index.html

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Slashing and bashing
From:	Kristoffer From <from@-------->
Date:	Wed, 22 Aug 2001 00:30:10 +0200

Salvete, omnes.

Here, cultural differences definitely come into play...in Sweden, Al
Gore would most definitely be considered "right-wing", even in the
extreme sense you native englishspeakers use the word. Our most
"rightish" politicians are still a whole lot more "leftish" than the US
democratic party. What you consider "extreme left-wing", we elect for
our government. The party former known as the communist party, nowadays
called the left party, are a part of the "ruling coalition" in our
current government, along with the socialist party and the
enviromentalists. To us, just about all americans appear to be (I'm NOT
saying that this is true, just how we perceive you) extreme right.

This is just to remind you all we Nova Romans come from a wide variety
of cultural backgrounds, don't get hung up on words. If you call a swede
a communist, he will probably think you're paying him a compliment. If
you call an american the same thing, he will not be flattered.

Words have different meanings for different people, and this is
something we all need to keep in mind, along with the fact that these
meanings may come from different cultural backgrounds. Always attempt to
consider a persons words not from the values you put on them, but on the
values he did. I know, this isn't easy, but it is an exercise which
will, in my opinion, help us all to grow stronger as a nation.
Considering our multicultural blend, we will need all the understanding
we can lay our hands on. ;)

And always, always remember the saying:
"Sticks and stones may break my bones,
but words could never hurt me."

A person attacking your statements, your ideas, or even your public
image, isn't attacking you. Step back, and consider if he is really
attacking your image, or if he is just attacking your statements or your
ideas. With verbal attacks of any kind, you can take this luxury, and
thereby avoid some unnecessary confrontations. Stand up for your ideas,
and for what you believe in, but attacks against your public image, more
commonly referred to as personal attacks, shouldn't be responded to, and
definitely not in kind.

Preferably, mail the person in question privately, and tell him how you
perceived his statement. Ask him to either clarify his opinion, or
apologize publicly. Give him a chance to consider his words, before you
counter them. This will lessen the impact of both of your dignitas, as
well as lighten the mood immeasurably on the main list.

Okie...what started up as a simple statement on cultural differences ran
away with me. Sorry, this is what happens when you're tired. I blame it
on caffeine deprivation, I ran out of Cola more than five hours ago. I'm
not attacking anyone, so if you feel offended anyway, just mail me
privately, and I'll issue a public apology.

"Why can't we all just...get along?"

One last disclaimer: I haven't read this through, this is "free flow of
mind". Please don't hurt me if I left any unfinished sentences or used
bad english, since I'm pretty sure I must have. Good night!

Valete,

Titus Octavius Pius,
Senior Legatus Thules,
Praeco Anarei Thules,
Scriba to the Curator Araneum

AKA Kristoffer From

---

Si hoc signum legere potes,
operis boni in rebus latinis alacribus
et fructuosis potiri potes.

- Not-so-famous quotation

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCS d- s:++> a-- C++>$ ULS++ P+ L++ E- W++(--) N
o-- K- w--- !O M-- V-- PS->$ PE- Y+ PGP- t+@ 5- X-
R+++>$ !tv- b+++>$ DI++++ D+ G e h! !r-->r+++ !y-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

Subject:	[novaroma] Nova Britannia Chat Change!
From:	"C. Minucius Hadrianus" <shinjikun@-------->
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:56:47 -0400

Salvete,

The Nova Britannia chat is being moved to Thursday night 9:00-10:00pm EST.
Please let me know if this is a bad date/time for anyone interested in
regularly particpating as the change is not set in stone. Thanks!

Salvete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Legatus of Massachusetts
ICQ# 28924742

"Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum." - Vegetius




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: The proposed lex on Century Points
From:	"Robert Woolwine" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 22:50:21 -0000

> > > > > > Current Senate Service - 30 pts
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Past Service as a Curule Magistrate (Censor, Consul, or
> Praetor) -
> > > > > > 15 pts
> >
> > I wonder why we place such a premium on current service. I
> understand the
> > desire to encourage continued activity, but in practice the extra
> points for
> > current service are only likely to be of benefit for one or two
> votes. Why not
> > simply give an award for serving one full year in office, which
> takes effect at
> > the end of a magistrate's tenure. This would serve to discourage
> resignations,
> > and we could give prorated points for someone who served as a
> suffectus.
> > Additionally, this would prevent someone who served one term as
an
> accensus
> > from losing his 5 points at the end of the year, effectively
> depriving him of
> > all reward for having provided some service.

Ave,

Could you please rewrite this section reflection your changes? I
think it can be a promising improvement.

Vale,

Sulla

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Nova Britannia Chat Change!
From:	"Marcus Cassius Julianus" <cassius622@-------->
Date:	Tue, 21 Aug 2001 23:37:01 -0000

Salvete,

This is probably better for me anyway - I haven't been able to make
one of the Wednesday chats yet!

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus


--- In novaroma@--------, "C. Minucius Hadrianus" <shinjikun@s...> wrote:
> Salvete,
>
> The Nova Britannia chat is being moved to Thursday night 9:00-
10:00pm EST. Please let me know if this is a bad date/time for anyone
interested in regularly particpating as the change is not set in
stone. Thanks!
>
> Salvete,
>
> C. Minucius Hadrianus
> Legatus of Massachusetts
> ICQ# 28924742
>
> "Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum." - Vegetius
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]