| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Slashing and bashing |
| From: |
Antonius Corvus Septimius <antoniuscorvusseptimius@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 21 Aug 2001 17:07:34 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Sextus Apollonius Draco:
> It's a little hard for me to write following
> message, since I respect and
> like all three of you, but I do have to get
> something off my chest. Instead
> of adding to the pile of paper produced, even if
> it's digital, I'll try to
> be clear and short.
>
> Ok guys, you don't like Formosanus! That's evident.
> But must you really
> attack everything he says? By doing so, you are
> doing exactly what you
> accuse him of
ACS - Well, speaking for myself... I do not attack
what he says. I defend the rights of the accused.
Stepping over boundaries (in this case being his own
current squabble with century points) then entering
past issues in hopes (my perseption) to blindly attack
our leges.
Demands scrutiny of his intentions.
- baseless speculating, name-calling,
> writing long and
> excessive postings, and so on. This °really° does
> not serve any purpose, and
> only makes NR's climate more vitriolic.
ACS- "Vitriolic" New word of the day, eh? *Looks
through Thesaurus*
You're all
> throwing eggs at the man
> before he's even opened his mouth!
ACS - Not JUST eggs. And yes, he HAS opened his
mouth.
> Valete bene,
> S. Apollonius Draco
>
I believed that my post in regards to
your pater, was more than tactful.
Perhaps throwing eggs might be a bit
much. But I will certainly continue to post whenever I
feel like it! Has anyone asked your pater not to post?
Then,, implying that others should not continue to
disagree, is inhuman *s*
Vale! A. Corvus Septimius
SEMPER FIDELIS
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|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Slashing and bashing |
| From: |
"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 21 Aug 2001 17:11:16 -0700 (PDT) |
|
--- Kristoffer From <from@--------> wrote:
> Salvete, omnes.
>
> Here, cultural differences definitely come into
> play...in Sweden, Al
> Gore would most definitely be considered
> "right-wing", even in the
> extreme sense you native englishspeakers use the
> word. Our most
> "rightish" politicians are still a whole lot more
> "leftish" than the US
> democratic party. What you consider "extreme
> left-wing", we elect for
> our government. The party former known as the
> communist party, nowadays
> called the left party, are a part of the "ruling
> coalition" in our
> current government, along with the socialist party
> and the
> enviromentalists. To us, just about all americans
> appear to be (I'm NOT
> saying that this is true, just how we perceive you)
> extreme right.
>
> This is just to remind you all we Nova Romans come
> from a wide variety
> of cultural backgrounds, don't get hung up on words.
> If you call a swede
> a communist, he will probably think you're paying
> him a compliment. If
> you call an american the same thing, he will not be
> flattered.
>
> Words have different meanings for different people,
> and this is
> something we all need to keep in mind, along with
> the fact that these
> meanings may come from different cultural
> backgrounds. Always attempt to
> consider a persons words not from the values you put
> on them, but on the
> values he did. I know, this isn't easy, but it is an
> exercise which
> will, in my opinion, help us all to grow stronger as
> a nation.
> Considering our multicultural blend, we will need
> all the understanding
> we can lay our hands on. ;)
>
Salvete,
Excellent advice,
Formosanus and Octavius are both Americans. Since the
1964 US Elections the term "Right wing" has often been
used in a negative sense, carrying an implied
"extreme" in front of it. After rereading the posts to
see the context in which this term was used, I have no
doubt that both parties understood that they were
talking about the negative meaning this word has in US
Politics.
Some years ago before I resigned from the US
Republican Party, Congressman Newt Gingrich was giving
some campaign workers a lesson on negative politics
(Something that he was a master at). Part of this was
a list of words that Most Americans see in a negative
light, and a list of words that that are perceived as
positive, with the instructions to use the negative
words against the opposition, and the positive words
to describe the candidate you are working for.
Some of the words were considered as attack words,
because they have an extremely negative meaning to
most Americans, and tend to inflame public opinion.
Formosanus is an American, and he constantly selects
words that were on Gingrich's attack list when
describing his opponents. Chauvinism, Oligarchy,
Authoritarian, and Prejudice are words that American
politicians commonly use in Mudslinging attacks. He
used all of these words in his August 19th post.
Formosanus uses words that most Americans consider
very provocative in his attacks against fellow
Americans, and then pretends to be perplexed at the
reactions his choice of words cause. This is a
standard trick in negative American Politics.
He is a very astute person, and his command of the
English language is superb. I have no reason to think
it's a simple case of being misunderstood. He is
deliberately using very divisive tactics.
Valete,
L. Sicinius Drusus
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: The proposed lex on Century Points |
| From: |
Steven - Piparskeggr <catamount_grange@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 21 Aug 2001 20:54:40 -0500 |
|
Avete Omnes,
As "Dominus" Sodalis, I want no Century Points for my efforts.
I offered the Brewers' and Cooks' group because I love those
two fields of endeavour, will offer it in the form which those
who contribute to the Sodalis wish: whether it be informal with
our Regulae in hibernation or formal when enough interest is
tendered by those who participate.
In my jaundiced opinion, anyone worth their salt shouldn't
want Century Points for "quality of life" deeds.
--
=========================================
In Amicus sub Fidelis
- Piperbarbus Ullerius Venator
Cives et Paterfamilias
Quæstor, Legate et Dominus Sodalis
Domus Familias
http://www.geocities.com/gens_ulleria/index.html
File of my Poems and Songs
http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/Pip_music/files/
The Sodalis pro Coqueror et Coquus mailing list
http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/
Quid quid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound.)
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Slashing and bashing |
| From: |
Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 21 Aug 2001 21:08:53 -0500 (CDT) |
|
Salve Tite Octavi,
> Here, cultural differences definitely come into play...in Sweden, Al
> Gore would most definitely be considered "right-wing", even in the
> extreme sense you native englishspeakers use the word. ...
> To us, just about all americans appear to be (I'm NOT
> saying that this is true, just how we perceive you) extreme right.
This partly explains why I take such strong offense at the term.
By the standards of my country, I'm a liberal. I am opposed to
censorship, and corporate dominance of the media, and to "intellectual
property" laws that serve the entrenched interests... and I favor
freedom of speech and religion, protecting the environment,
gay marriage, drug legalization, and shattering the corporate
hegemony. Thus, it's shocking and insulting to have someone apply
a label to me and my friends here that I use for those that I try
to work against.
Additionally, as Lucius Sicinius pointed out, in American politics
that's an "attack word". It carries far heaver negative
connotations than "conservative" does... for us, the phrase
"right wing" conjures up images of Klansmen riding at night
and Nazis at their rallies. Here, those words are applied to
extremists.
Vale, Octavius.
--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator
"... one of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that,
lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of
their C programs." -- Robert Firth
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Digest No 1578 |
| From: |
PompeiaAntoniaCaesar <europamoon7@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 21 Aug 2001 19:05:38 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Salve Lucius Equitus,
Quintus Fabius will be performing the ritual so I have
left everything up to him. I will let him know of
your suggestions. If you can make it to California
for any of the meetings (I will be hosting them at
least once every other month) you would be most
welcome to conduct the ritual of whatever deity is
appropriate.
Vale,
Pompeia Antonia Caesar
--- Lucius Equitius <vze23hw7@--------> wrote:
> Salve iterum,
>
> Thank you for your response.I appreciate why you
> picked Mars, but you really
> didn't answer my question.Whether you were planning
> a private rite or not
> and what would be the nature of the ritual. What
> kind of offering would be
> made, if any? That sort of thing.
>
> If you are going to hold a meeting on the 13th of
> Oct. I believe it would be
> more appropriate to honor the deity Fons as the
> Romans did. I don't know
> about everyone else, but I like plenty of clean,
> healthy water.
>
> Of course, you are free to do in your private
> worship whatever you like. I
> was just curious, as the priest of Mars, what kind
> of things were being
> done. Since becoming Flamen I had written, a few
> times, every Gens that
> listed Mars as a 'Patron Deity' if anyone would be
> interested in forming the
> Sodales Salii, or sharing whatever
> thoughts/information they liked. I only
> received two responses and after I followed those up
> with more information,
> I didn't hear anymore from them. Disappointing,
> after all reviving the
> religio is "The centerpiece of the activities of
> NOVA ROMA..." Maybe this
> short dialog will serve as tinder...
>
> In any case, best of luck.
>
> Vale, Flamen Martialis Lucius Equitius
>
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 12:16:51 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: PompeiaAntoniaCaesar
> <europamoon7@-------->
> > Subject: Re: Digest No 1577
> >
> > Salve,
> >
> > When I decided upon the date for the event I
> looked up
> > the calendar of holidays and festivals on the
> Pantheon
> > site and it stated that October was sacred to the
> God
> > Mars. That is how my decision was made. The rite
> > performed at the last event was brief and
> performed by
> > Quintus Fabius Maximus in honor of the Goddess
> Minerva
> > and Fabius will probably perform the ritual at the
> > next event as well. I welcome any comments or
> > suggestions as to the proper procedure in
> performing a
> > ritual for the upcoming event.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Pompeia Antonia Caesar
> >
> >
> > --- Lucius Equitius <vze23hw7@--------> wrote:
> > > Salvete,
> > >
> > > I would like to inquire on the nature of the
> 'ritual
> > > to the God Mars'. Is
> > > this a private/family rite?
> > > As Flamen Martialis, I am responsible for the
> > > 'official' cult of Mars and
> > > Nova Roma hasn't the means, yet, to perform a
> proper
> > > Equus October. However,
> > > I do perform rituals on behalf of the state on
> those
> > > days devoted to Mars.
> > > The 13th of October is actually known to be the
> > > 'Fontinalia' in honor of
> > > FONS, god of fountains, springs, and wells. On
> this
> > > day garlands of flowers
> > > were spread in decoration, especially around
> wells
> > > and springs.
> > >
> > > Valete, Flamen Martialis Lucius Equitius
> > >
> > > BTW Today is the fall 'VINALIA", festival of
> wine.
>
>
>
>
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Political Traps |
| From: |
Maximina Octavia <myownq@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 21 Aug 2001 22:58:06 -0700 (PDT) |
|
"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@--------> wrote:
>
Salvete,
Excellent advice,
Formosanus and Octavius are both Americans. Since the
1964 US Elections the term "Right wing" has often been
used in a negative sense, carrying an implied
"extreme" in front of it. After rereading the posts to
see the context in which this term was used, I have no
doubt that both parties understood that they were
talking about the negative meaning this word has in US
Politics.
Some years ago before I resigned from the US
Republican Party, Congressman Newt Gingrich was giving
some campaign workers a lesson on negative politics
(Something that he was a master at). Part of this was
a list of words that Most Americans see in a negative
light, and a list of words that that are perceived as
positive, with the instructions to use the negative
words against the opposition, and the positive words
to describe the candidate you are working for.
Some of the words were considered as attack words,
because they have an extremely negative meaning to
most Americans, and tend to inflame public opinion.
Formosanus is an American, and he constantly selects
words that were on Gingrich's attack list when
describing his opponents. Chauvinism, Oligarchy,
Authoritarian, and Prejudice are words that American
politicians commonly use in Mudslinging attacks. He
used all of these words in his August 19th post.
Formosanus uses words that most Americans consider
very provocative in his attacks against fellow
Americans, and then pretends to be perplexed at the
reactions his choice of words cause. This is a
standard trick in negative American Politics.
He is a very astute person, and his command of the
English language is superb. I have no reason to think
it's a simple case of being misunderstood. He is
deliberately using very divisive tactics.
Valete,
L. Sicinius Drusus
Ave Drusus,
Once again, I see you as an objective voice of reason in this situation.
I completely support Pater Octavius in this issue. Politics and the subtle nuances that accompany its tactics often escape many people including myself.
When I first read the initial post of Formosanus, I was snagged by the word "silent", warning bells went off and as I kept reading, the insidious nature of the post became clear.
In my humble opinion, the use of the negative terms and accusations Formosanus has used is evidence of a sly attempt toward instigation and an attack on honest, hardworking Romans.
I write not just to support Pater Octavius (who certainly is capable of handling his own issues) and the Censors, whom I believe have been injured, but also to ask Citizens to consider carefully and watch for those posts written by a few with hidden agendas. Please Beware of posts that complain and publicly accuse those whose hard work is done to benefit all Nova Romans. As I have learned, sometimes a private post is the better part of valour.
Vale, Maximina Octavia
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] OATH OF OFFICE |
| From: |
hoefkens_kul@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:11:10 -0000 |
|
I, Michiel Hoefkens and Gaius Apollonius Corvus do hereby solemnly
swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best
interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.
As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Gaius Apollonius Corvus swear to
honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to
pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.
I, Gaius Apollonius Corvus swear to uphold and defend the Religio
Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a
way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.
I, Gaius Apollonius Corvus swear to protect and defend the
Constitution of Nova Roma.
I, Gaius Apollonius Corvus further swear to fulfill the obligations
and responsibilities of the office of Gallus Retiarus to the best of
my abilities.
On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the
Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor,
do I accept the position of Gallus Retiarus and all the rights,
privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.
Gaius Apollonius Corvus
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] I am back |
| From: |
"Manius Constantinus Serapio" <manius_constantinus_serapio@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:26:54 -0000 |
|
AVETE OMNIBVS
I write just to say that I am back, ready to work as before!
VALETE MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO
Civis Provinciae Italiae
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Ohio Roman days reservations-addtional information- long |
| From: |
asseri@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:15:29 EDT |
|
Salvete,
On October 13 in Columbus Ohio I am cooking a roman dinner for a Nova
Roma gathering. I am reposting the menu and some addtional information.
please read all of the post. If you are within drivng distance come and have
fun with us.
A light lunch will be avaible on site as well. We have yet to pin it
down but it will be at reasonable cost and filling fare.
** Please the only confirmed resevation will be a prepaid one. You can e-mail
me but it must be backed up by either a check or money order. Please send
them to:
Janet king
6432 So. Anthony Blvd
Fort Wayne, IN
46816
October 13, 2001
09:45 Opening Ceremonies/Benediction to the gods
10:00 Event opens to the public.
Religio Romana Exibit
Sodalitas Militarium Exibit
Money Changer (selling NR coins)
Oratory Contest (Topic to be on Taxation.)
Art contest (any form)
Gladiatorial Combat (Scripted)
Olympic Games (to be announced)
Roman Theater (to be announced)
Roman fashion show
FOOD!
The event will end at 5:00 pm, and for those who have
RSVPed in advance, we will be holding a private
"Roman" dinner from 6-9:00. There will be prizes
awarded for the various contests, and everyone
attending the dinner, will receive a special keepsake.
Bene,
M. Scipio Africanus
Here is the menu for the feast we will be having in
Columbus, Ohio after the Roman Day event. This is a
RSVP only dinner, and the cover charge will be $15.00.
I have tasted the cook's tallents, and I strongly
anyone planning to attend the event to stick around
for the dinner. For RSVP, contact Ancinna Drusila
(Asseri@--------) before October first. * see above note*
Menu
hard cooked eggs (brown)
two types of flavored soft cheeses
flat bread
herbed olives
dried fruits
marinated chicken
marinated cucumber slices (garum and balsamic vinegar)
Baian Stew (Simply to die for)
lentils and artichokes hearts
cannelli bean fixed herb sauce
stuffed date fried in honey
sliced cantaloupes and grapes
raisin sweetened apple juice and grape juice (no
alchohol allowed there)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: The proposed lex on Century Points |
| From: |
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:38:00 +0200 |
|
Salve,
The only problem I have with this proposed change is that it does not
support official non-political positions other than priesthoods. If an
appointed legate receives credit, it seems as if I personally am losing out,
seeing that I am a officially appointed retarius. Yet I receive no
recognition.
Other then that one thing it seems like a good and needed change to the
system.
"Quamquam cupido sis delictum ab sui crebro suum mater ab vitualis"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"
--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia
Salve Honorable Amulius Claudius Petrus!
I have named your collegue in Provincia Thule, Honorable Titus Octavius
Pius, Praeco Anarei Thules which I have decided to count as a scriba rank
position (see my Regula), therefore giving century points.
,
Vale
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus
The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
Join the List for the Thule Provincia in Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThuleNovaRoma/join
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
Caeso, he who also is known as Christer Edling.
************************************************
Using a keyboard that don't want to make L! :-(
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Er, PAX anyone? |
| From: |
"M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 22 Aug 2001 19:43:39 +0200 |
|
M. Apollonius Formosanus Aedilius Plebeius omnibus Quiritibus S.P.D.
I wish to make my postion in Nova Roma clear. I have, as Draco
correctly pointed out, a concern with the injustice of two pieces of
legislation in Nova Roma: (1) The portion of the Lex Cornelia et Maria
de Mutandis Nominibus which makes it unnecessarily difficult for a
person changing his social gender to change the grammatical gender of
his name, thus making life gratuitously more difficult for this
minority, and (2) the portions of the Lex de Cornelia et Maria de
Civitate Eiuranda which penalise guiltless persons who wish to return to
Nova Roma after resignation through imposing punitive-seeming waiting
periods and a loss of important civil rights. I am also concerned about
the policy of enforced English translations in the Main List, which I
believe shows disrespect for other languages and those who prefer them
by giving English a enforced superiority in addition to its natural
advantages for communication.
I take my duties as a civis seriously, and I have done my best, and
as long as I treat Nova Roma seriously shall continue to do my best, to
get these policies changed by any and all legal means. I would like a
Nova Roma that we can all be proud of, and to me that means we cannot
have legislation or policies on the bools which discriminate unfairly
against individuals or whole segments of our community.
In the course of working towards this end I have been made vividly
aware that there is a small and tight circle of persons in Nova Roma who
tend to regard anything one of their number does as prima facie right,
and which is very disinclined to listen to moral protest by those not in
that circle. I have used the term "oligarchic" to describe that
situation, with an eye more to the Greek than the American usage. It
means simply a political system where effective power is in the hands of
a few rather than in the hands of one person or of people in general. I
consider this descriptively accurate. If anyone finds it offensive, then
I suggest he try to act in a way that will open up real and effective
control to the many. Then the term will not be applicable to that person
or, eventually, to the whole system.
Many words have been bandied about on the topic of "left" and
"right". Let me make it clear: my orientation is towards "Democracy" in
its generic sense, the tradition of such varied figures as Cleisthenes,
the Gracchi, Thomas Jefferson, and Marin Luther King. It is *not* in the
tradition of Marx, Lenin, Stalin or Mao.
There are people here who are against Democracy, however. If we
could separate their motives, we might find that one is really being
interested in following the ancient political tradition of Rome and
seeing what happens if we do. To these (if the group exists in a pure
form) I would say: fine, but do not forget the Plebeian institutions
that were real and powerful, just as was the Senate was real and
powerful. Let us see the Plebeian Assembly in full and normal function
passing plebiscita, and let us see the powers of the Tribunes of the
People restored to their historical proportions. And let us have the
laws of the ancients that would restrict individuals from holding office
too often, so that new blood could have its chance, and specifically new
blood with new and varied points of view. Under those conditions, I
would not protest against the Senate's appropriate priviledges. But as
the proponents of this point of view have very selectively drawn from
history in a way that heavily overemphasises the rôle of the Senate and
upper classes, there is a democratic deficit that is not really
historically authentic, and is especially inappropriate for a
present-day micronation.
Then there are those who want to keep their hands on power as a
small group because they have been here a long time and have contributed
much, so they feel that Nova Roma is "theirs". That is a natural human
feeling. But if they want Nova Roma to prosper, they have to let new
people make their contributions too, and come to feel that this place is
theirs as well. And that contribution will not just be in making it
bigger, but also in providing some new moral insights and sensitivity,
and non-American points of view that the veterans might feel are a
little strange to them.
We can compare it to some partners who found a business that is so
successful that the only sensible thing to do is to "go public". That is
something many successful entrepreneurs find it difficult to do, since
it means giving up the kind of control they once had. But it opens the
way for the public company to grow in a way that it otherwise could not,
and to serve more people better and realise its full potential. And
there is nothing stopping the old partners from continuing to
participate in the company in an honoured and worthwhile way. That is
what I am asking the veterans here to do. If they really love Nova Roma
more than their own control, they will do so.
I regret that so many wish to make of this essential movement
towards openning up and democratisation - which is a natural and
inevitable part of our maturing, our internationalisation, and our
growth into diversity - a matter for personal vendetta and ill will. I
am not by character a hater of people, and I hate no one in Nova Roma,
specifically including Censor Sulla and Octavius. I may be angered at
times, but that does not constitute a settled hate. I do hate injustice,
however, and unnecessary curtailments of human freedom, such as the
legislation and policy mentioned at the beginning of this post, and that
is most definitely a settled and permanent attitude.
I previously invited Octavius to resume our earlier private
dialogues with an eye to reconciliation. He has not done so, yet, but I
hope he will. I now would like to invite Censor Sulla, Praetor Fabius,
Consul Vedius, L. Sicinius Drusus, and anyone else who feels he or she
has gotten into an unproductively conflictual relationship with me, and
would like to open up channels of communication for the future. In
private, where no one would have to posture for the audience, we might
do better at this. If you want to...
The real change that is absolutely needed here could better be made
in an atmosphere of less animosity, and I am perfectly willing and even
eager to assist in bringing that about, if I find real partners in
serious dialogue. I am extending a hand of friendship - will anyone on
"the other side" reach out to take it?
Valete!
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 17:36:59 EDT
From: QFabiusMaxmi@--------
Subject: Re: Attacking the Apollonii?
Salvete!
First off I must say how pleased I am to see the Apollonii close ranks
and
protect the Paterfamilias. How Roman! How correct! I salute you all.
In a message dated 8/21/01 1:20:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
hendrik.meuleman@-------- writes:
> I might add: "according to those people's vision". Formosanus wants to
> revive what he sees as the best of Rome, and his opponents want to do
the
> same. It's just their interpretations, which are a consequence of
their
> personal philosophies and modern world ideas, that make them clash. I
don't
> think it's got anything to do with destruction.
>
My biggest concern is the lack of trust that Marcus Apollonius has
fostered
among the Senate and ranking magistrates. The man has belittled those
efforts more then once, and his vision, while interesting, does not come
at
all close to that of the Senate or many of the people.
If he has turned over a "new leaf," then I applaud the effort, but it is
too
early to tell this. We simply view him with concern and trepidation,
neither
which gives him support in a major magistracy.
> If I were a second Caesar, I would play the game differently! I would
> befriend everyone, and get so influential and knowing that I can
develop an
> entire secret faction, and then overthrow my opponents, who don't even
know
> they are my opponents. Seriously, if Formosanus were a second Caesar
in the
> making, he would act with more intelligence. His purpose is to revert
> legislation which he perceives as unjust, and not necessarily
provoking
> mass hysteria.
Thanks for the warning Sextus Apollonius! I always knew you were a
dangerous
man <G>
While I understand Marcus Apollonius does not like some legislation,
disclosing plans to repel it while the authors are still in office
doesn't
endear himself to those people.
>
> There has already been sought revenge at the Apollonii, and the whole
gens
> has already suffered under vicious attacks. Besides, I don't think
it's up
> to anyone to decide who is a true Roman, and who isn't. I wonder what
proof
> you have to offer for these allegations.
>
But did not the Apollonii bring it on themselves, with the "digital
bomb"
rhetoric, "the "overthrow the oligarchs" posture and the nasty name
calling?
They were left alone until then. Trampling on other peoples' life work
might
be a lark for you, but those people tend take this seriously, and get
upset
when you say it is (political position here). In fact like you, many do
not
like it when they or their efforts, are insulted. Think about that
before
you post again.
> For the record, I don't follow anyone but myself. And even that person
might
> be unreliable ;).
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Er, PAX anyone? |
| From: |
Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:38:52 -0500 (CDT) |
|
Salve Marce Apolloni,
In your latest message, most of the points you make are similar to
what you have said before. Similarly, my response would be essentially
the same arguments I have made several times before. We are not
likely to agree anytime soon, and any further argument will be
disruptive to this list.
Therefore, I am calling for a truce. I do not intend to post
a rebuttal to your latest message, for it would be redundant.
It's been well-established that the message that began the
current debate was based upon a misinterpretation; since then,
we've just been arguing about motives, revenge, fanaticism,
and political labels. Continuing that is pointless, and I don't
plan to do so.
No doubt we'll have something else to argue about next month,
but for now, I'm done.
Vale, Octavius.
--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator
"... one of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that,
lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of
their C programs." -- Robert Firth
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Nova Britannia |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:21:00 -0400 (EDT) |
|
Citizens and Magistrates of Nova Roma;
I come before you as ProConsul of Nova Roma with an anouncement that may
be slightly out of date, however, I believe it to be not only
significant but perhaps even helpful to some.
In June, I published a "100 Day Report" which indicated the first 100
days of my appointment as ProConsul of Nova Britannia. Some time later
I published a Nineteen Point Plan for the Province of Nova Britannia. I
have since then been most fortunate to have workng with me a Staff which
has contacted all Nova Britannia Citizens, by E-Mail, has conducted or
participated in several face-to-face activities within or near the
borders of this Provincia, and included in this staff is a lady of the
1st class who has fulfilled her commitments beyond my requests of her in
producing a Provincia Newsletter, which gives further details about
those things which we are doing within the Nova Britannia Provincia.
You may read about these activities and citizens in the following URL:
http://www.geocities.com/margali99maincom/aquilina.html
There will be another issue due out soon. Keep your eyes peeled for
it!!!!!
The Legate for Massachusetts has been involved in organizing
face-to-face activities, and setting up chat talks on the internet. The
Legate for Maine has invited those interested to visit his area for
religious activities. The Legate for Connecticut has been involved in a
new endeavor as "Part-Owner" of a Gladitorial School first at Roman Days
in Baltimore and then at the Eisenhower Park Cultural Fair on Long
Island.
Just a few days ago, he has been notified that the Event Promoters on
Long Island have invited the Gladitorial School to return next year for
a repeat performance characterizing the Gladitorial School as a
"dynamite show." The Gladitorial School is also scheduled to appear at
Mt. Pocono, PA on the second weekend on Sept. and although it is an
event out of the boundaries of Nova Britannia, at my Legate's request, I
will label it an official Nova Britania Event, and encourage again the
ProConsul of the Mid-Atlantia Province to do so as well.
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Nova Britannia |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:31:29 -0400 (EDT) |
|
My apologies, I hit the wrong button. I bring the preceding message to
you Citizens of Nova Roma, in order to provide those few ideas which we
have determined over the last few months before you for yor
consideration, to praise not me but rather my excellent staff for thier
assistance in this effort and for completing thier commitments to me and
to the Province. It is a real pleasure to work with people who are as
involved as you are, and it makes light work of the task.
An additional reason is that at the end of the year, my tour as
ProConsul will be complete, and if I wish to continue as a ProConsul, I
will need to show the Senate of course, but even more importantly than
the Senate Fathers, I will need to show the Citizens of Nova Roma and
particularly the Citizens of Nova Britannia what I have done to justify
my year in office. It is my belief that this newsletter which has been
produced by Mistress Margali will assist in that requirement. I thank
you for your patience and attention to this post.
Marcus Audens
Proconsul -- Nova Britannia -- Nova Roma
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: The proposed lex on Century Points |
| From: |
labienus@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 22 Aug 2001 21:03:45 -0000 |
|
Salvete L Corneli aliique
> Could you please rewrite this section reflection your changes? I
> think it can be a promising improvement.
Here is a rough suggestion. This would have to be polished a lot
before it could be presented before one of the trina comitia. Quite
likely, we would want to carefully examine the point values (I used L
Cornelius' numbers) before trying to set anything in bronze.
______________
I. All of the following activities and positions shall confer the
century points indicated at the end of one full term of service, for
each term served. Should a citizen be elected or appointed to fill
one of these positions as a suffectus, he shall be awarded a number
of points equal to the full award prorated according to the fraction
of the term that he serves. For example, if a citizen is elected to
serve for half a year as a consul suffectus, that citizen will
receive 20 century points, or half of the full award for serving one
full term as a consul. At the discretion of the Senate, an official
who resigns his position prior to serving one full term in office may
be awarded points for his service, prorated in a manner similar to
that for a suffectus. In no case may a citizen who was removed from
office for misconduct receive any century points for that term in
office.
A. Censor - 40
B. Consul - 40
C. Praetor - 30
...And so on through the ordinarii, extraordinarii, Vigintisexviri
and provincial governors
N. Assistant to a magistrate or provincial governor (including, but
not limited to, apparitores and legati) - 5 points
O. Special Senatorial appointment - ?
II. All of the following activities and positions shall confer the
century points indicated for current service. Points gained for
holding one of these positions shall be granted immediately upon
receipt of office, and rescinded immediately upon loss of office.
A. Senator - 30
B. Pontifiex Maximus and the 3 Major Flamens (Dialis, Quirinus and
Martialis) and Rex (Regina) C. Sacorum - 40 Pts
...And so on through the priesthoods and other "lifetime" positions,
including pater/mater familias
N. Sodalitas officials might go here, or they might go in section I.
O. Member in good standing in a sodalitas - 1
III. All of the following activities and positions shall confer the
century points indicated at the time at which they occur.
A. A Plebian Pater/Mater shall receive 3 points each time he or she
adopts a new gentilis
B. A Patrician Pater/Mater shall receive 1 point each time he or she
adopts a new gentilis
C. Unsuccessfully running for office - 2
D. Special Senatorial award - ?
...Anything else we can think of
Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Er, PAX anyone? |
| From: |
"Robert Woolwine" <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 22 Aug 2001 23:08:09 -0000 |
|
Avete,
In your recent message, (Pax) M. Apollonius, you have asked for a
dialogue between the individuals who you see are your opponents,
including me, and yourself. I have to publically respond to this by
asking, why?
In the past year and a half I have asked a number of respected
individuals to try to mediate with the eventual goal of trying to
settle the differences between you and I. Those individuals
include: Senator T. Labienus, Secunda Cornelia and probably other
individuals who I cannot recall at present. None of them were
successful. So I ask you, why do you want to speak to me via email
when you and I could not reach any truce with mediators?
What has changed between those times and now to cause this change in
you?
Valete,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
--- In novaroma@--------, "M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@--------> wrote:
> M. Apollonius Formosanus Aedilius Plebeius omnibus Quiritibus S.P.D.
<Snip>
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Provincia America Medioccidentalis Superior Website |
| From: |
VMoeller@-------- |
| Date: |
Wed, 22 Aug 2001 19:12:10 EDT |
|
Ave Omnes:
It is my pleasure as Provincial Propraetrix of the Great Province, America Medioccidentalis Superior, to officially unveil the official website of the Province. For a view please go to www.geocities.com/drususcygnus/ams
The website was constructed by the incomparable Drusus Aeneas Apollonius Cygnus. He has performed a great service to the Province and to Nova Roma. Please honor his service to the Res Publica.
The province has been split into three administrative regions because of the immense size of the province. Regio Silvestri is in the north representing the states of Minnesota, Iowa, and North and South Dakota. The Regio Campus, named after the plains states comprises Missouri, Kansas, and Nebraska. Regio Montanus contains the Mountain states of Wyoming and Montana.
Each Regio is headed by a Legate Major whose tasks are to organize Nova Roma in that Region. He or she has the duty of coordinating gatherings between members of the states within their regions, as well as recruitment. They in turn may appoint state wide Legates Minore. It is the Legate Minore who coordinates gatherings and activites in the states housed within the Regios.
Thank you
Vale,
---Secunda Cornelia Valeria, Propraetrix Provincia America Medioccidentalis Superior.
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Provincia America Medioccidentalis Superior Website |
| From: |
"Robert Woolwine" <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Wed, 22 Aug 2001 23:46:29 -0000 |
|
Ave,
This is a wonderful website. I really like the graphic of the
province.
Vale,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
--- In novaroma@--------, VMoeller@a... wrote:
> Ave Omnes:
>
> It is my pleasure as Provincial Propraetrix of the Great
Province, America Medioccidentalis Superior, to officially unveil the
official website of the Province. For a view please go to
www.geocities.com/drususcygnus/ams
>
> The website was constructed by the incomparable Drusus Aeneas
Apollonius Cygnus. He has performed a great service to the Province
and to Nova Roma. Please honor his service to the Res Publica.
>
> The province has been split into three administrative regions
because of the immense size of the province. Regio Silvestri is in
the north representing the states of Minnesota, Iowa, and North and
South Dakota. The Regio Campus, named after the plains states
comprises Missouri, Kansas, and Nebraska. Regio Montanus contains the
Mountain states of Wyoming and Montana.
>
> Each Regio is headed by a Legate Major whose tasks are to
organize Nova Roma in that Region. He or she has the duty of
coordinating gatherings between members of the states within their
regions, as well as recruitment. They in turn may appoint state wide
Legates Minore. It is the Legate Minore who coordinates gatherings
and activites in the states housed within the Regios.
>
> Thank you
>
> Vale,
>
> ---Secunda Cornelia Valeria, Propraetrix Provincia America
Medioccidentalis Superior.
|
