Forum Romanum


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Slashing and bashing
From:	Antonius Corvus Septimius <antoniuscorvusseptimius@-------->
Date:	Thu, 23 Aug 2001 17:25:53 -0700 (PDT)

A. Corvus Septimius sermones cum confero conferre
contuli S. Apollonius Callias

--- Sokarus Apollonius Callias
<hadescallias@--------> wrote:
(edit)
> You know what i'm thinking Octavius, that you are
> acting like a child whose position has been
> compromised.

ACS: If he (Octavius) is acting in this manner. I do
not see where the compromise is. Could you please
enlighten me as to this implication? And, if child
phsycology is your forte, you surly know that a child
would not defend
him/herself in this manner. On the contrary, the
actions of a child are dictated by their constant
contempt of the issue at hand.

I know Marcus Apollonius Formusanus
> well enough to know that he doesn't make false
> accusations and that Draco is right of sending a
> email to the list.

ACS: Is this true? How well do you actually know these
personalities, outside of the internet? I belive this
statement (due to past posts of the afore mentioned)
is mute.

Octavius abvious has to learn the
> difference between responding in an adult kind of
> way than in a childless kind of way because that is
> what you are doing.

ACS: Octavius is defending himself. There is a
difference. All is fair in love, war, AND politics eh?

I have read the other email from
> the other person who is involved in here and he
> seems more reseanable than you are.

ACS: Reasonable actions toward accusations of
corruption. Corruption that I still havent had the
opportunity to have stumbled upon. Even after my
requesting the accusers of proof.

Are we childeren
> or are we adults.
If we are adults, we should start
> to behave in such manner.

Sir, in my YEARS of experiences.. I have seen
irrational reactions from that of an adult to a child.
And at the same time.. I have seen an adoloscent
conduct themsleves with the virtues of a pius human
being.
Let one react to what they deem natural to them.
Imposing IS imposing.

Vale bene, A. Corvus Septimius

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Subject:	[novaroma] An alternative to century points (was Re: The proposed lex on Century Points)
From:	"Manius Constantinus Serapio" <manius_constantinus_serapio@-------->
Date:	Fri, 24 Aug 2001 01:31:36 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@n...>
wrote:

Once a week, citizens would be expected to log into
> the website and record their time. The most common activities could
be
> pre-listed (email, magisterial duties, website design, etc.) and
plenty of
> space provided for "other" (with an explanation required, of
course). The
> Censors (or more likely one or more scribes delegated for that
specific
> purpose) would have the responsibility for going through the
inputted time
> and investigating any anomalous entries.

excuse me, honored Consul, I am not sure what you mean with "any
anomalous entries". Wouldn't all entries be anomalous in an
organization where nobody can directly see people he works with?

> Perhaps it's not a perfect solution, and it definitely needs some
more work,
> but I think with work it could be a better solution than the one
we've got
> now. Comments?

On this matter, I will do a research on the italian university where
a part of the evaluation is composed of the time spent by students
studying at home.
I hope it could be useful.

respectfully,
BENE VALE MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: A (friendly) challenge to the Aediles
From:	"Robert Woolwine" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Fri, 24 Aug 2001 01:39:37 -0000

Ave,

Consul Flavius Vedius, I read this post and I appreciate the
challenge, I even support the challenge, but I have a concern. Where
will the discretionary funds come from? How much money is left in
there after the allocation for Vinolandia and Roman Days?

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

--- In novaroma@--------, "Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@n...>
wrote:
> Salvete;
>
> Our Aediles, both Curule and Plebeian, have few duties at present
within our
> Republic. Our Constitution defines their primary duties and powers
as being
> "To issue those edicta (edicts) necessary to see to the conduct of
public
> games and other festivals and gatherings, to ensure order at public
> religious events, to see to the maintenance of any real public
facilities
> that the State should acquire, and to administer the law" (para.
IV.A.4.b et
> IV.A.5.b).
>
> We haven't had many public religious events that needed order to be
kept,
> and we don't have any real public facilities (yet). Our legal
system is
> still embryonic, with no real role for the Aediles to fill. That
leaves
> public games and other festivals and gatherings.
>
> A few of our magistrates have complained that there is little for
them to do
> other than to have the title and get the Century points (no
accusation there
> at all; it's a fact that some offices just don't have much to do
right now).
> To help alleviate that situation, and in the process get a little
enthusiasm
> and national spirit going, I hereby issue a challenge to our four
Aediles:
>
> * Marius Cornelius Scipio (California)
> * Titus Sertorius Albinus (Britannia)
> * Marcus Arminius Maior (Brasilia)
> * Marcus Apollonius Formosanus (Venedia)
>
> Before the end of your term in December, I challenge each of you to
put
> together a real-life gathering of Nova Roman cives in your
respective areas
> (no copping out with calling an on-line chat a "gathering"!
<grin>). Perhaps
> a public celebration of Fontinalia in October. Perhaps the Ludii
Plebeii in
> November, complete with games! Perhaps a full-blown Saturnalia in
December.
> Maybe a reenactment event with one of our sponsored Legions. Even
if it's
> just a "Let's get together because we're all Romanophiles"-alia, I
would ask
> all four of you to put together a public and publicized event and
try to get
> as many of your fellow Cives to attend as you can. Get your local
provincial
> governors into the act. Put out the word among non-Citizens, too;
maybe it
> can become a good recruiting opportunity. Turn it into a real Event!
>
> I, and I am sure the many others who have put together such events
in the
> past, will be more than happy to give you whatever assistance or
advice we
> can. I will also ask the Senate to release some of the
discretionary funds
> in the budget to help offset some of the cost of putting on such
official
> events (it will also be a way for your assigned Quaestors to get
into the
> act, too). That's what it's there for, after all; to help Nova Roma
grow and
> prosper. I can think of no better way to do that than to encourage
the
> growth of Community through real-world get-togethers.
>
> (Please note this is in no way a dispairagement against any of our
good
> Aediles, but merely a good-hearted attempt to get some activity
going.)
>
> Next year in the Forum!
>
> Valete,
>
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
> Consul


Subject:	[novaroma] ELECTION: Invalid Voter Code (6)
From:	"Domna Claudia Auspicata" <comptess@-------->
Date:	Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:50:44 +1200

Salvete Quirites

This should be the last of the Voter Code announcements as I believe the Cista will be closed after the 24th and the election will be over. Please allow some time for the Rogatores to count the votes, until then...

Tracker # 1 and 6121 (cast last week)
Tracker # 6142

Please try to vote again (just once please). If you have problems I hope there is enough time to fix them before voting ends ;-)

Valete
Domna Claudia Auspicata
Rogator

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Slashing and bashing
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Thu, 23 Aug 2001 21:00:28 -0500 (CDT)

Salve Sokari Apolloni,

> You know what i'm thinking Octavius, that you are acting like a
> child whose position has been compromised.

You're certainly free to think whatever you like. Whether it has
any bearing on reality is another manner.

I don't know how you can possibly think that defending myself from
an unprovoked attack is "acting like a child".

What, in your opinion, would be the "adult" thing to do? Should
I have thanked my opponent for having made a false accusation, and
pretended it had merit?

> I know Marcus Apollonius Formusanus well enough to know that he
> doesn't make false accusations

You're wrong. He's admitted that the accusation was based on a
misunderstanding, and we've moved beyond that. If you think there
is any truth to it whatsoever, then I invite you to present your
case to the praetors and have me prosecuted.

> and that Draco is right of sending a email to the list. Octavius
> abvious has to learn the difference between responding in an
> adult kind of way than in a childless kind of way because that
> is what you are doing.

And perhaps you should learn to not get involved in arguments
where you know absolutely nothing of any of the events involved.
I have defended my dignitas from an unprovoked attack to the
best of my ability, and I will continue to do so.

> I have read the other email from the other person who is involved

Why do you call your paterfamilias "the other person"? Are you
trying to downplay your affiliation with a participant in an
acrimonious debate, in the hopes that you may be seen as unbiased?

--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator

"... one of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that,
lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of
their C programs." -- Robert Firth


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Er, PAX anyone?
From:	antoniuscorvusseptimius@--------
Date:	Fri, 24 Aug 2001 02:06:32 -0000

A.Corvus Septimius M. Apollonius Formosanus Roma Aeterna

> M. Apollonius Formosanus Aedilius Plebeius omnibus Quiritibus S.P.D.
>
> I wish to make my postion in Nova Roma clear. I have, as Draco
> correctly pointed out, a concern with the injustice of two pieces of
> legislation in Nova Roma: (1) The portion of the Lex Cornelia et Maria
> de Mutandis Nominibus which makes it unnecessarily difficult for a
> person changing his social gender to change the grammatical gender of
> his name, thus making life gratuitously more difficult for this
> minority,

ACS: Having worked with cross gendering persons in the past, knowing
who they are already, does not a name make. Especially on the internet.
So, why is this such a big issue for you? One of the great things about
our culture is, that a persons' sexuality was not as scrutinized as in
certain societies around the world. And I belive that applies in our
cultures current form.

and (2) the portions of the Lex de Cornelia et Maria de
> Civitate Eiuranda which penalise guiltless persons who wish to return to
> Nova Roma after resignation through imposing punitive-seeming

ACS: If they "seem" punitive to you, are they really punitive?
In the future.. If I may humbly ask.. Please attach the leges as they
are written. So, the people can choose for themselves what the real
reason for certain leges are.

waiting
> periods and a loss of important civil rights.

ACS: "civil rights"? Name these civil rights that are being trampled
upon because of this law. I would be happy to know our civil rights, so
if you can email them to me. I would me appreciative of that

I am also concerned about
> the policy of enforced English translations in the Main List, which I
> believe shows disrespect for other languages and those who prefer them
> by giving English a enforced superiority in addition to its natural
> advantages for communication.

ACS: Its not inforced it is only suggested. If those of us who can not
post in English do so. The others of us who speak more than one
language, may be able to translate it to whomever requests it.
I for one, would be more than willing to do so.

Valete, A. Corvus Septimius


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] An alternative to century points (was Re: The proposed
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Thu, 23 Aug 2001 21:39:37 -0500 (CDT)

Salve Flavi Vedi,

> I believe the whole Century Point system is unweildy and flawed, and should
> be replaced. That, of course, brings up the question of what should replace
> it.

While it is somewhat flawed, I believe it is better than any
alternative we are likely to see.

> Time.

> I think it would be agreed by all that I have put in more
> time and effort in the last 8 months than he has. And yet right now we get
> the same number of CPs, and will both get the same at the end of our terms.

This is indeed a problem with the current system. For a much more
extreme example, consider the Curule Aedile who was elected last year,
who disappeared a week after the election and was never heard from
again... he received the same number of century points for that
office as I did.

Yet, any office is a stepping stone to the others. Some, but not
all, propraetores, aediles, and tribunes will enter the Senate. Some,
but not all, will be elected Praetor, Consul, or Censor. Past
performance will bring future rewards, which may themselves
increase one's standing in the Centuries.

> That, naturally, brings up yet another question. How to track time?

> I believe the answer is relatively simple, and is based on a suggestion made
> in relation to the CPs themselves. What if a simple form were set up on the
> website, similar to a timesheet that is often used in the corporate world to
> track employee's hours?

No offense intended, but I spend far too much time filling those
out already!

> Once a week, citizens would be expected to log into
> the website and record their time. The most common activities could be
> pre-listed (email, magisterial duties, website design, etc.)

Many of us do spend much of our time reading and writing email. But
is all of this time of value? Shall flamewars and idle chatter be
given as much weight as advice to new citizens or carefully thought-out
argument?

Not all time is equal. This week, I've spent about three hours
working on database-management tools for the Censores and scribes
to use, and about ten hours in an acrimonious dispute with another
citizen. Obviously, the first of these events has much greater
value; the value of the second investment of time is fairly
close to zero. Would there be multipliers associated with the
various types of activity?

> Perhaps it's not a perfect solution, and it definitely needs some more work,
> but I think with work it could be a better solution than the one we've got
> now. Comments?

I do not believe a time-based system is better than our current one,
which is mainly based on easily observed and documented events. Not
all hours spent in Nova Roma activities are of equal value; not all
time spent emailing the list or lurking in the chat room is
productive; and the data-entry is a tedious task with the potential
for fraud.

Vale, Octavius.

--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator

"... one of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that,
lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of
their C programs." -- Robert Firth


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: on the negligence of pater familias
From:	"Robert Woolwine" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Fri, 24 Aug 2001 02:50:58 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "Manius Constantinus Serapio"
<manius_constantinus_serapio@--------> wrote:
> AVETE OMNES
>
> I am exasperated by the behavior of my Pater Familias.
> He doesn't exist since the end of june. Nobody else joined our
gens,
> the mailing list of our gens isn't working, he doesn't answer to my
> messages and I can't carry on with several jobs because I need his
> permission and some informations he has.
> I can't accept that my gens dies in this abject way!
> I think it is necessary to find a solution. Every gens need a
> living Pater!
>
> VALETE MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO

Ave,

Please contact me off list..and we will try to get this very
important issue resolved for you.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor of Nova Roma


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: on the negligence of pater familias
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Thu, 23 Aug 2001 22:10:55 -0500 (CDT)

Salve Censor,

> > I can't accept that my gens dies in this abject way!
> > I think it is necessary to find a solution. Every gens need a
> > living Pater!
> > VALETE MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO
>
> Please contact me off list..and we will try to get this very
> important issue resolved for you.

You're not going to suggest he become a Cornelius, are you? :)

Vale, O.

--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator

"... one of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that,
lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of
their C programs." -- Robert Firth


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: on the negligence of pater familias
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@-------->
Date:	Fri, 24 Aug 2001 00:16:01 -0700

Marcus Octavius Germanicus wrote:
>
> Salve Censor,
>
> > > I can't accept that my gens dies in this abject way!
> > > I think it is necessary to find a solution. Every gens need a
> > > living Pater!
> > > VALETE MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO
> >
> > Please contact me off list..and we will try to get this very
> > important issue resolved for you.
>
> You're not going to suggest he become a Cornelius, are you? :)

Yeah know, thats an excellent idea! <BG> (BE aware of the BIG GRIN!)

Wow we have missing Paters, whats next....immoral maters! <g>

But seriously, I was going to try to offer my assistance in helping him
locate his missing pater. Even if it meant my calling him on the phone
so we can find out what the problem is.

Vale,

Sulla

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: PAX
From:	"Maia Apollonia Pica" <mjarc@-------->
Date:	Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:38:37 +0200

Salvete Quirites,

In response to a letter by Marcus Apollonius Formosanus, Marcus
Octavius Germanicus wrote:

"I thought we had "PAX" - why are you still misrepresenting recent
events? I did not "overreact" or "misreact" to anything. I believe my
response was quite appropriate for a response to a false accusation.
In it, I speculated that you were motivated by vendetta, and I do not
believe that to be at all inappropriate. After that, you were as
guilty of escalating the conflict as I. I'm willing to drop the
matter, in the interest of peace, but I'm not going to sit idly by
and let you continue to refer to the incident using the same biased
interpretation as you did in the heat of battle. If you can refrain
from making such statements about me, then we shall have pax."

I think it is only fair to expect that you refrain from terms such as
"false accusation" or "biased interpretation" then. Your original
comment was "Most magistracies in previous years, current scribe
positions, and unsuccessful political campaigns have never been
entered into the database." Was it interpreted unjustly by Formosanus
or expressed poorly by you? I would say taking "never" to mean
"never" is a fairly unbiased interpretation, and in this simple
literal sense your statement would have given any citizen good
reasons to write a concerned response. Later you explained what you
had meant and my pater reacted accordingly. No false accusations,
just poor communication.

Valete,
Maia Apollonia Pica


Subject:	[novaroma] EDICTVM PROPRAETORICIVM DE LOCO PROVINCIALI
From:	"salix" <salice@-------->
Date:	Fri, 24 Aug 2001 08:39:26 +0100

EDICTVM PROPRAETORICIVM DE LOCO PROVINCIALI

Ex Officio Propraetoris Hispaniae

I. According to the paragraph II.G of the Edictum Propraetoricium de
Regula Provincialis, this edictum creates the official web site of the
Provincia Hispania, which is to be located on the address:
http://www.geocities.com/nrhispania/

II. The officials that must create and mantain this web site, as well
as broadcast it by all possible means, are those stated in the Edictum
Propraetoricium de Consilio Propraetoris.

III. This edictum becomes effective immediately.

Given ix kal. sept. a.u.c. mmmddccliv, in the year of the consulship of Flavius Vedius
Germanicus and Marcus Cassius Iulianus.

Marcus Salix Vigilius, Propraetor Hispaniae.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: on the negligence of pater familias
From:	=?iso-8859-1?q?Craig=20Stevenson?= <gaiussentius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:10:50 +1000 (EST)

Salvete omnes,

--- Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
wrote:
<HR>
<html><body>
<tt>
Salve Censor, 
 
> > I can't accept that my gens dies
in this abject way! 
> > I think it is necessary to find
a solution. Every gens need a 
> > living Pater! 
> >
VALETE
MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO 
> 
> Please contact me off list..and we will try to
get this very 
> important issue resolved for you. 
 
You're not going to suggest he become a Cornelius, are
you? :) 

GSBS: Yes, there seems to be an overabundance of
Cornelii. Perhaps they should form a legion?:-)

 
Vale, O. 
 
-- 
M. Octavius Germanicus 
Propraetor, Lacus Magni 
Curator Araneum et Senator 
 
"... one of the main causes of the fall of
the Roman Empire was that, 
lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful
termination of 
their C programs." -- Robert Firth 

Valete bene omnes,

Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura

_____________________________________________________________________________
http://shopping.yahoo.com.au - Father's Day Shopping
- Find the perfect gift for your Dad for Father's Day


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] on the negligence of pater familias
From:	Jeff Smith <dalmaticus@-------->
Date:	Fri, 24 Aug 2001 02:31:59 -0700 (PDT)

> Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:10:50 +1000 (EST)
> From: Craig Stevenson <gaiussentius@-------->
> Subject: Re: Re: on the negligence of pater familias

> GSBS: Yes, there seems to be an overabundance of
> Cornelii. Perhaps they should form a legion?:-)

OVERabundance?!? Impossible.

You mean ANOTHER legion? <grin>

Dalmaticus

=====
JEFFREY C. SMITH
HQ USAREUR/7A
CMR 420, BOX 2839
APO AE 09063-2839

"Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies out of the trunk." -- anonymous

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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: on the negligence of pater familias
From:	"Robert Woolwine" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Fri, 24 Aug 2001 03:27:04 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@c...> wrote:
> Salve Censor,
>
> > > I can't accept that my gens dies in this abject way!
> > > I think it is necessary to find a solution. Every gens need a
> > > living Pater!
> > > VALETE MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO
> >
> > Please contact me off list..and we will try to get this very
> > important issue resolved for you.
>
> You're not going to suggest he become a Cornelius, are you? :)

ROFLMAO, uh no....I was going to try to help him contact his
paterfamilias. Even if it meant me calling him on the phone..to find
out whats up!

Missing Paters! What will we think of next...Immoral Materfamilias!
sheesh!

Vale,

Sulla


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: PAX
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Fri, 24 Aug 2001 07:04:15 -0500 (CDT)

Salve Maia Apollonia,

> I think it is only fair to expect that you refrain from terms such as
> "false accusation" or "biased interpretation" then.

As I've said, if he'll refrain from referring to recent events with
his particular unique perspective on them, then so will I.

> Your original
> comment was "Most magistracies in previous years, current scribe
> positions, and unsuccessful political campaigns have never been
> entered into the database." Was it interpreted unjustly by Formosanus
> or expressed poorly by you?

Both. I would have expressed it more precisely if I knew that such a
misinterpretation was to follow. It is true that most events worthy
of century points have never been entered into "the database". It is
also true that the century assignments were done by the Censores
using a tool other than "the database", which did not exist at the
time they made the century assignments. Since then, I have replaced
their Excel spreadsheet with a PostgreSQL database, and we have
until November to enter the century point data that did not survive
the transition (as well as all of that which has accumulated since).

Vale, Octavius.

--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator

"... one of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that,
lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of
their C programs." -- Robert Firth


Subject:	RE: [novaroma] I'm back. :)
From:	Andrea Gladia Cyrene <andrea_gladia@-------->
Date:	Fri, 24 Aug 2001 06:40:28 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete!

--- "C. Minucius Hadrianus" <shinjikun@--------> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> If you do end up in the Boston area let me know! :) We're always
> happy to get new civies, even if it's from immigration as opposed to
> recruiting ~_^

Oh believe me, all my eggs are in the Boston basket right now. As my
mom put it, "it's Boston or bust." Given the tech market out there in
comparison with my own area, I should be more than ok.

Yeah, looks like I'll be joining your end of the world. ;)

Valete,

=====
Andrea Gladia Cyrene
Apollinis Templi Sacerdotis
Materfamilias of Gladia
*******************************************
Yahoo: kyreneariadne / andrea_gladia / andrea_m_berman
AIM: Kyrene Ariadne ICQ: 6663573
http://TempleApollo.faithweb.com/index.html

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] An alternative to century points (was Re: The proposed
From:	labienus@--------
Date:	Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:26:37 US/Central

Salvete Fl Vedi omnesque

> I do not believe a time-based system is better than our current one,
> which is mainly based on easily observed and documented events. Not
> all hours spent in Nova Roma activities are of equal value; not all
> time spent emailing the list or lurking in the chat room is
> productive; and the data-entry is a tedious task with the potential
> for fraud.

This is essentially a "me, too" post. I agree entirely with M Octavius'
observations on this subject, and am even more concerned about the possibility
of both fraudulent and relatively innocent "over-counting" inherent in such a
system than he seems to be. After all, I keep my webmail open and periodically
check it while at work and during most evenings at home. Does this mean that I
give 10+ hours of service to the Respublica each day? Of course not, but I can
easily see someone choosing to interpret things that way.

Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus


Subject:	[novaroma] ATTN [Religio Romana] ante diem IX Kalendas Septembres (August 24)
From:	"Antonio Grilo" <amg@-------->
Date:	Fri, 24 Aug 2001 15:54:14 +0100

Salvete omnes

This is one of the dies comitiales (C), when committees of citizens can vote
on political or criminal matters.

Today is the "Mundus patet" (open Mundus), when the Mundus is ritually
opened. The Mundus is a vaulted ritual pit, divided in two parts and with a
cover. An altar is reared over it. It is possible (though not certain) that
it corresponds to the point from which Romulus measured the dimensions of
the city when he drove the plow which marked the outline of Rome at its
foundation. There he put first fruits together with soil from the land from
each of his followers came.
The Mundus establishes the communication between the world of the living and
the 'Infernus', world of the
dead where Dis (or Orcus or Pluto) and Proserpina reign. Because the Mundus
is the entrance to the chtonic world, it is also said that the Mundus
belongs to Ceres (Festus, p.126, 4). Once the Mundus is opened, the Manes
emerge and roam the streets of Rome.
The opening of the Mundus is repeated on October 5 and November 8. Several
"religiones" ("religio" means "religious duty" and not "religion/creed" in
the modern sense) apply today:
- It is forbidden to engage in combat.
- It is forbidden to raise troops.
- It is forbidden to make troops march.
- It is forbidden to raise anchor.
- It is forbidden to marry or procreate.
Nevertheless, comitia and other public activities are allowed.

Today Luna is celebrated at the Graecostasi. The Graecostasi is a tribunal
or platform between the Comitium and Forum, being first mentioned in 304
BCE. Sacrifices offered to Luna may have been a late institution: they are
mentioned only in the Fasti Pinciani.

The month Sextilis is sacred to Ceres. It's name was later changed to
Augustus in honour of Emperor Octavius Caesar Augustus.

Dii vos bene ament

Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex


Subject:	[novaroma] Digest No 1584
From:	"Lucius Equitius" <vze23hw7@-------->
Date:	Fri, 24 Aug 2001 13:29:49 -0400

Salvete, Quirites

From: "Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Subject: A (friendly) challenge to the Aediles

Salvete;
Our Aediles, both Curule and Plebeian, have few duties at present within our
Republic....
We haven't had many public religious events that needed order to be kept,
and we don't have any real public facilities (yet)...

A few of our magistrates have complained that there is little for them to do
other than to have the title and get the Century points

* Marius Cornelius Scipio (California)
* Titus Sertorius Albinus (Britannia)
* Marcus Arminius Maior (Brasilia)
* Marcus Apollonius Formosanus (Venedia)

Before the end of your term in December, I challenge each of you to put
together a real-life gathering of Nova Roman cives in your respective areas
(no copping out with calling an on-line chat a "gathering"! <grin>).

L EQUITIUS: I only want to point out that Marcus Arminius Maior (Brasilia)
has sponsored a few events already and Marius Cornelius Scipio (California)
has also been involved with face to face meetings as well. I could be
mistaken since it is very difficult to remember who is who without having a
face to put with the names on this list in most cases, even if I have seen a
picture of the person.

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 09:50:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Centurion M Bianchius Antonius <imperialreign@-------->
Subject: Coinage for the Roman Day

I was wondering about a money changer for the Roman
Day in Columbus, Ohio. What would I have to do or who
would I talk to about getting coinage for the event.

Would I have to "buy" so much worth of coinage or do
we have a some type of "sign out" document to get the
coins, then return the unused portion with the money
collected.

I understand there is quite a bit of trust and
respondsibility with the ladder option.

Any help in this matter would be great.

Thanks, Marcus Bianchius Antonius

L EQUITIUS: Consul Marcus Cassius would be the one to contact for this.
consuls@-------- <consuls@-------->
I think it is a great idea. How the capital is worked out is a matter that
needs to be addressed in the Senate and as they say, no better time than the
present. I will introduct the subject in the Senate unless someone beats me
to it, eh Consul Marcus Cassius? I *know* he'll have pleanty to say on this
subject! ;-)

________________________________________________________________________

Salvete

Normally I abhor "me, too" posts, but I need to say "Bravo!" to Graecus.
You've hit the nail right on the head with this excellent analysis.

Valete

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul

> -----Original Message-----
> From: amg@-------- [mailto:amg@--------]
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 3:54 PM
> To: novaroma@--------
> Subject: [novaroma] Democracy here? (was Re: Er, PAX anyone?)
>
>
> Salve Formosane
>
> All your posts confirm my opinion that you are misplaced in Nova
> Roma. Nova Roma is different from other nations. While the
> macronations evolve naturally we must recover 1500 years and we have
> precise ideas about the point where we want to start.
> You should already know (and it is expressed in the website) that our
> objective is to start this new nation recovering the
> political/governmental system existent during the Roman Republic. I
> don't know if the Roman Republic was democratic or not. I simply
> don't care and 'Democracy' is simply not written among the goals of
> Nova Roma. Nova Roma is to have a ROMAN SYSTEM SIMILAR TO THAT OF
> ANTIQUITY, period. Do you say that the Roman system was Democracy?
> Fine! Do you say that the Roman system was an oligarchy? Fine for me
> as well.
> Nevertheless I think that the most correct statement is to say that
> the Roman system had (as has) features of a Democracy as well as
> features of an Oligarchy. And for you to comply with the goals of
> Nova Roma you will have to accept both sets of features. In medio
> virtus, Formosane!
>
> But even if the restoration of the Roman Republic was not a main
> goal, the other main goals do not allow its complete implementation.
> For example the official religion of Nova Roma is the Religio Romana.
> Would you accept the decision of a majority of citizens voting
> otherwise? I would not. Personally, I would support any Dictator (or
> even Emperor!!) able to override the decision of the people and save
> the Religio Romana.
>
> In summary, like it or not, and no matter how politically incorrect
> it may seem, Nova Roma will only be a Democracy for those who comply
> with its main goals, which constitute the main reasons for its
> foundation: to restore the political/governmental system of the Roman
> Republic and guarantee the status of the Religio Romana as the
> religion of the state. And in my humble opinion, those who do not
> agree with the main goals of Nova Roma should look for another place
> to develop their own goals as was already done in the past by several
> of the Amici Dignitatis (your previous companions, who in my opinion
> were wise in their decision to leave).
>
> Vale
> Antonius Gryllus Graecus

L EQUITIUS: Quite so! Well said Graece!
I have ofteen read proposals that wish to 'bring us up to date' and
modernize our system. I read those in wonder, Why be here if we want to do
that? I can see the all the 'wonders' of modern society anytime I like by
going out on the highways, turning on CNN, listening to the latest music
(sic), watching how young people behave in school, etc etc etc.
I'm here to bring back those things that are neglected today. Family,
responsibility, devotion to the gods and our ancestors.

Freedom is great... when used responsibly! Live Responsibly!

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 21
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 02:23:02 -0000
From: "Manius Constantinus Serapio"
<manius_constantinus_serapio@-------->
Subject: on the negligence of pater familias

AVETE OMNES

I am exasperated by the behavior of my Pater Familias.
He doesn't exist since the end of june. Nobody else joined our gens,
the mailing list of our gens isn't working, he doesn't answer to my
messages and I can't carry on with several jobs because I need his
permission and some informations he has.
I can't accept that my gens dies in this abject way!
I think it is necessary to find a solution. Every gens need a
living Pater!

VALETE MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO

Message: 23
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 02:50:58 -0000
From: "Robert Woolwine" <alexious@-------->
Subject: Re: on the negligence of pater familias

Ave,

Please contact me off list..and we will try to get this very
important issue resolved for you.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor of Nova Roma

L EQUITIUS: As Censor Novae Romae I have noted this topic has repeatedly
returned to be a headache to the smooth operation of administering citizens
applications and progress of Nova Roma.
I agree that this is a "very important topic", but I do not think we should
continue to solve it by individual, private, off'list consultations. This
issue needs to be addressed by all citizens. Quite frankly we need
legislation that gives us a ways to deal with these situations. The
constitution give 'paterfamiliae' powers within Nova Roma yet sets no
*responsibility* on them.

The first thing we *could* do is have a 'chain of command' whereby if the
listed materfamilias is unavailable the Censores will have a alternate
contacts.

I welcome other ideas and only offer this as a starting point for
discussion.

What can we do about those Gens whose m/p-familiae who have effectively
disappeared? Presently their is nothing we can do legally. But if we have a
lex that says the Censores can appoint a "suffex", or anything that would
break the 'log-jam", then we would have the means to allow those citizens
who wish to be (more) involved within the 'grass-roots' development of their
gens and Nova Roma the means to legally do so.

I welcome other ideas and only offer this as a starting point for
discussion.

Perhaps we could allow the censores to approve an application that allows a
prospect to join a gens without the approval of the paterfamilias, then the
pater can 'expel' them form the gens if they wish. In the meantime hey at
least would be citizens and could be adopted; however, this would take a
response from the 'p/materfamilias' :-)

I have often felt that in our rush to build our nation we have neglected the
'roots'. We must have families, gens, then tribes and comitiae.

Valete, Censor Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus


Subject:	[novaroma] Century points/Taxes
From:	"Lucius Mauricius Procopious" <lespeterson@-------->
Date:	Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:30:33 -0700

Salvete Omnes!

We're trying to re-create ancient Rome. Ancient Rome based it's classes on wealth. An individual was not restricted from advancing in class. What is wrong with this system?
I know it's not "politically correct" to talk about money like its a good thing, but I happen to think it is. As the leader of our Xtian friends says its the LOVE of money that is bad. So.....
Why not adopt a system based on taxes? A minimum token tax could be all that is necessary to get out of the Capite Censi (Sp?). Each class above that would be reached by paying an increasingly larger voluntary tax which would dictate the number of century points assigned.
Money is quantifiable much more easily than time and is more historically correct. We need money if we are going to progress. Why not reward those who support us financially?
My macronation taxes me based on my income, I'm not suggesting we do that. I'm suggesting we pay as much as we can/want to and base the rewards on that payment.
I know money hits us where we live, but that's ok with me, cause I want to live in NR : )
Since I wasn't around at the creation of NR I'm not sure why the historical model was not followed. If there is a good reason, please fill us "newbies" in.
(Procopious dons his armor raises his scutum and waits for the replies.)

Lucius Mauricius Procopious
Propraetor America Boreoccidentalis
(This is an unofficial post for which I assume full responsibility)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
procopious@--------
ICQ# 83516618
*America Boreoccidentalis Mail List
http://www.egroups.com/group/AmBor_Waves
* The Gens Mauricia
http://www.geocities.com/procopious

"Indeed, it is not by the plans of men, but by the hand of God that the affairs of men are directed; and this men call Fate, not knowing the reason for what things they see occur; and what seems to be without cause is easy to call the accident of chance. Still, this is a matter every mortal will decide for himself according to his taste."
-Procopius of Caesarea (in Palestine) [born c.490/507- died c.560s]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[novaroma] Riots in the City
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:35:16 +0200

Salvete Quirites,

The current "conflict", if I may call it that way, between my paterfamilias and the group of people he usually gets involved with in discussions - in this case our webmaster, Octavius, is pointless, useless and fruitless.

First off, I do not at all concur with the fact that from time to time, some people on this list are trying to tell others that they're not behaving Roman, or even Nova Roman. Nobody is has the authority to decide this for another person. The recreation of Roma Antiqua mainly relies on interpretation, and, to paraphrase the Italian writer Luciano De Crescenzo: "I distrust exclamation marks, and rather stick with question marks instead." And some people here use too many exclamation marks. To some of what is generally called "the establishment", I would ask them to take a step back if they are being criticized, and not get emotional about it. A good leader knows how to handle criticism in a good way, and true dignitas does not need protection. It shines on its own.

Secondly. Sokare, you are a man with the heart on the right spot. But while I admire the efforts of you and my other fellow gentiles to defend our paterfamilias from the heavy opposition he's getting, I would like to ask all of you, too, to take a step back. As I have learnt from painful experiences, the "shotgun tactic" usually doesn't work. If you must, make a glorious speech and impress the people. If you want, have a rational discussion and retain your calm, even when you're under fire.

To end with. While I'm usually not the precarious or cautious type, tend to speak what's on my mind, and have been accused of bombastic demagoguery myself, I do hope that no one takes offence. I don't want to be patronizing, and not at all imposing my views on anyone. Just sharing them :).

Valete bene!
S. Apollonius Draco

"Jeder f�r sich, und Gott gegen allen."

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: on the negligence of pater familias
From:	trog99@--------
Date:	Fri, 24 Aug 2001 17:44:37 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, Jeff Smith <dalmaticus@j...> wrote:
> > Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:10:50 +1000 (EST)
> > From: Craig Stevenson <gaiussentius@-------->
> > Subject: Re: Re: on the negligence of pater familias
>
> > GSBS: Yes, there seems to be an overabundance of
> > Cornelii. Perhaps they should form a legion?:-)
>
> OVERabundance?!? Impossible............Pompeia Cornelia: Well
stated, Frater, well stated (grin!!)!!
>
> You mean ANOTHER legion? <grin>
>
> Dalmaticus
>
> =====
> JEFFREY C. SMITH
> HQ USAREUR/7A
> CMR 420, BOX 2839
> APO AE 09063-2839
>
> "Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies out of the
trunk." -- anonymous
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo!
Messenger
> http://phonecard.yahoo.com/


Subject:	[novaroma] Civil Rights
From:	"Lucius Mauricius Procopious" <lespeterson@-------->
Date:	Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:41:00 -0700

Salvete Omnes,

In a recent post I made a suggestion involving taxes. We need money to grow and build. However, before we give more strength to NR, we should seek to make it a place where ALL people who wish to recreate a Roman form of government and religion, feel they are safe and protected. To this end I have started a new list where we can discuss civil rights. Which rights we feel are important and historically correct, or we feel would have developed if the Res Public had continued. Roma Antiqua was a place where individuals could enjoy more freedom and rights than anywhere else on the planet at that time, (pause for impending corrections), we should strive to do the same in our time! Any interested individuals please feel free to join NRCR@--------
Let's outline the protections we want, then we'll have nothing to fear from our "good ole boy network" oligarchy. : ) (Please note the big grin)

Lucius Mauricius Procopious
Propraetor America Boreoccidentalis
(This is an unofficial post for which I assume full responsibility)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
procopious@--------
ICQ# 83516618
*America Boreoccidentalis Mail List
http://www.egroups.com/group/AmBor_Waves
* The Gens Mauricia
http://www.geocities.com/procopious

"Indeed, it is not by the plans of men, but by the hand of God that the affairs of men are directed; and this men call Fate, not knowing the reason for what things they see occur; and what seems to be without cause is easy to call the accident of chance. Still, this is a matter every mortal will decide for himself according to his taste."
-Procopius of Caesarea (in Palestine) [born c.490/507- died c.560s]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] EDICTVM PROPRAETORICIVM DE LOCO PROVINCIALI
From:	=?iso-8859-1?B?WWFubiBRdely6Q==?= <yquere@-------->
Date:	Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:20:29 +0200

Salve Propraetor

Congratulations for the site, and long live Provinvia Hispania
Where is the pic with boat from ? it's wonderful !

Vale Optime,
Asta Luego
Ianus Querius Armoricus Lutecio
Propraetor Galliae

----- Original Message -----
From: salix <salice@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 9:39 AM
Subject: [novaroma] EDICTVM PROPRAETORICIVM DE LOCO PROVINCIALI

> EDICTVM PROPRAETORICIVM DE LOCO PROVINCIALI
>
> Ex Officio Propraetoris Hispaniae
>
> I. According to the paragraph II.G of the Edictum Propraetoricium de
> Regula Provincialis, this edictum creates the official web site of the
> Provincia Hispania, which is to be located on the address:
> http://www.geocities.com/nrhispania/
>
> II. The officials that must create and mantain this web site, as well
> as broadcast it by all possible means, are those stated in the Edictum
> Propraetoricium de Consilio Propraetoris.
>
> III. This edictum becomes effective immediately.
>
> Given ix kal. sept. a.u.c. mmmddccliv, in the year of the consulship of
Flavius Vedius
> Germanicus and Marcus Cassius Iulianus.
>
> Marcus Salix Vigilius, Propraetor Hispaniae.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] EDICTVM PROPRAETORICIVM DE LOCO PROVINCIALI
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Fri, 24 Aug 2001 12:01:34 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete omnes; et salve, Propraetor Lutecio.

--- Yann Qu�r� <yquere@--------> wrote:
> Salve Propraetor
>
> Congratulations for the site, and long live Provinvia Hispania

Thank you very much. We all are very proud of it.

> Where is the pic with boat from ? it's wonderful !

It has been taken from the game "Caesar III", I believe.
I hope you have also visited the rest of the site :-).

> Vale Optime,
> Asta Luego

Hasta luego :-).

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Er, PAX anyone?
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 24 Aug 2001 12:53:00 -0700 (PDT)

--- "M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@--------> wrote:
SNIP

Yes I will take you up on your offer. I have never
felt any personal dislike towards you, and hopefully
we shall find areas where we can work together for a
better Nova Roma, and in other areas we can at least
be gentlemen, and agree to disagree.

REPONDEO:

For the benefit of the public, let me say that he has
done so, and we
have begun a dialogue. I do note that many of his
comments about me on
the Back Alley list certainly do not strike me as
indicating a lack of
personal dislike or a gentlemanly attitude.
Nevertheless, we two have made a start, and shall
pursue it quietly to
see where it may lead. Hopefully to something better
for Nova Roma.

Regarding comments made on the Back Alley list. Yes I
have said some rather unkind things about Marcus
Apollonius. I have also said some nasty things about a
great many other members of the list. Trading flames
is part of the "fun" on the Back Alley. I haven't been
any kinder to our Censor. I regularly refer to his
Gens as the Gens Corleone, and have hung the nickname
of the "Godfather" around his neck.

To show you how serious we take things in the Back
Alley, I have recently been appointed King of England.

Any "insults" made on the BA are more along the lines
of a Roast, and are not taken seriously.

Vale
L. Sicinius Drusus

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Er, PAX anyone?
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@-------->
Date:	Fri, 24 Aug 2001 12:57:11 -0700

"L. Sicinius Drusus" wrote:
>
> --- "M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@--------> wrote:
> SNIP
>
> Yes I will take you up on your offer. I have never
> felt any personal dislike towards you, and hopefully
> we shall find areas where we can work together for a
> better Nova Roma, and in other areas we can at least
> be gentlemen, and agree to disagree.
>
> REPONDEO:
>
> For the benefit of the public, let me say that he has
> done so, and we
> have begun a dialogue. I do note that many of his
> comments about me on
> the Back Alley list certainly do not strike me as
> indicating a lack of
> personal dislike or a gentlemanly attitude.
> Nevertheless, we two have made a start, and shall
> pursue it quietly to
> see where it may lead. Hopefully to something better
> for Nova Roma.
>
> Regarding comments made on the Back Alley list. Yes I
> have said some rather unkind things about Marcus
> Apollonius. I have also said some nasty things about a
> great many other members of the list. Trading flames
> is part of the "fun" on the Back Alley. I haven't been
> any kinder to our Censor. I regularly refer to his
> Gens as the Gens Corleone, and have hung the nickname
> of the "Godfather" around his neck.
>
> To show you how serious we take things in the Back
> Alley, I have recently been appointed King of England.
>
> Any "insults" made on the BA are more along the lines
> of a Roast, and are not taken seriously.

Hey....when do people begin to start kissing my ring! I am sitting here
and waiting. Sheesh, what respect! <G>

Vale,

Sulla
(Remember this is just a taste of the Back Alley.)


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Er, PAX anyone?
From:	trog99@--------
Date:	Fri, 24 Aug 2001 21:48:11 -0000

---Sicinius "Shall" be king!!!

And by the way o King, I am "still" waiting for the information on
what name you will assume, Lucius II, or Sicinius I, so I can issue
the invitations, party favours, napkins with the appropriate
name....yunno........for the Coronation?

If you are going to be king, you better "get with the progam", Druse
(grin)!!!!

And............Special Guest Stars...........will be...........

THE DIXIE CHICKS AND MADONNA (not together, though)

Po

In novaroma@--------, Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@e...>
wrote:
>
>
> "L. Sicinius Drusus" wrote:
> >
> > --- "M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@--------> wrote:
> > SNIP
> >
> > Yes I will take you up on your offer. I have never
> > felt any personal dislike towards you, and hopefully
> > we shall find areas where we can work together for a
> > better Nova Roma, and in other areas we can at least
> > be gentlemen, and agree to disagree.
> >
> > REPONDEO:
> >
> > For the benefit of the public, let me say that he has
> > done so, and we
> > have begun a dialogue. I do note that many of his
> > comments about me on
> > the Back Alley list certainly do not strike me as
> > indicating a lack of
> > personal dislike or a gentlemanly attitude.
> > Nevertheless, we two have made a start, and shall
> > pursue it quietly to
> > see where it may lead. Hopefully to something better
> > for Nova Roma.
> >
> > Regarding comments made on the Back Alley list. Yes I
> > have said some rather unkind things about Marcus
> > Apollonius. I have also said some nasty things about a
> > great many other members of the list. Trading flames
> > is part of the "fun" on the Back Alley. I haven't been
> > any kinder to our Censor. I regularly refer to his
> > Gens as the Gens Corleone, and have hung the nickname
> > of the "Godfather" around his neck.
> >
> > To show you how serious we take things in the Back
> > Alley, I have recently been appointed King of England.
> >
> > Any "insults" made on the BA are more along the lines
> > of a Roast, and are not taken seriously.
>
> Hey....when do people begin to start kissing my ring! I am sitting
here
> and waiting. Sheesh, what respect! <G>
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
> (Remember this is just a taste of the Back Alley.)


Subject:	[novaroma] ATTN. ARGENTINOS / ARGENTINIANS SP./ENG.
From:	danielovi@--------
Date:	Fri, 24 Aug 2001 23:58:09 -0000

Salvete omnes.
The new url for the provincial mailing list is :
http://ar.groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Argentina
This is due to the fact that now our mailing list is under Yahoo
groups Argentina.
Please bookmark this url. Thanks.
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Propraetor provinciae Argentinae

Salvete omnes
El nuevo url para la lista provincial es :
http://ar.groups.yahoo.com/group/NR_Argentina
Esto se debe que ahora nuestra lista de correro se encuentra bajo
Yahoo grupos Argentina.
Por favor marquen este url. Gracias.
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Propraetor provinciae Argentinae


Subject:	[novaroma] on the negligence of pater familias
From:	"Manius Constantinus Serapio" <manius_constantinus_serapio@-------->
Date:	Fri, 24 Aug 2001 02:23:02 -0000

AVETE OMNES

I am exasperated by the behavior of my Pater Familias.
He doesn't exist since the end of june. Nobody else joined our gens,
the mailing list of our gens isn't working, he doesn't answer to my
messages and I can't carry on with several jobs because I need his
permission and some informations he has.
I can't accept that my gens dies in this abject way!
I think it is necessary to find a solution. Every gens need a
living Pater!

VALETE MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO