Forum Romanum


Subject:	[novaroma] Back Alley ?
From:	Charlie Collins <cotta@-------->
Date:	Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:13:34 -0500

What catagory is it under at Topica? I've done searches and can't find it.

Sextus Cornelius Cotta

--
Legate Major, Regio Campus(KS, MO, NE)
America Medioccidentalis Superior Province
ICQ#: 29580250
AIM: LegateMajor


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Back Alley ?
From:	"Robert Woolwine" <alexious@-------->
Date:	Sat, 25 Aug 2001 02:01:00 -0000

here is the link I have:

www.topica.com/lists/BackAlley

Please let me know if it doesn't work...I can contact Crys to add you.

Vale,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

--- In novaroma@--------, Charlie Collins <cotta@s...> wrote:
> What catagory is it under at Topica? I've done searches and can't
find it.
>
> Sextus Cornelius Cotta
>
>
>
> --
> Legate Major, Regio Campus(KS, MO, NE)
> America Medioccidentalis Superior Province
> ICQ#: 29580250
> AIM: LegateMajor


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Er, PAX anyone?
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Fri, 24 Aug 2001 19:34:05 -0700 (PDT)

--- trog99@-------- wrote:
> ---Sicinius "Shall" be king!!!
>
> And by the way o King, I am "still" waiting for the
> information on
> what name you will assume, Lucius II, or Sicinius I,
> so I can issue
> the invitations, party favours, napkins with the
> appropriate
> name....yunno........for the Coronation?
>
> If you are going to be king, you better "get with
> the progam", Druse
> (grin)!!!!
>
> And............Special Guest Stars...........will
> be...........
>
> THE DIXIE CHICKS AND MADONNA (not together, though)
>
> Po
>

LOL,
Lucius II !

But it's time to move back to the dark alley in the
Subura. We don't want to disturb the respectable
citizens in the better neighborhoods of Nova Roma.

L. Sicinius Drusus
(LSD in the Back Alley)

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	[novaroma] What happened ? Ref.: My points and my propraetorship.
From:	danielovi@--------
Date:	Sat, 25 Aug 2001 03:26:37 -0000

Salvete omnes.
I am very surprised to find that I do not have my points as
propraetor, and in the album civium and provincial page, my title as
propraetor was erased. So I would thank if somebody could explain me
what happened, since my propraetorship ends at the end of the year.
It is an absolute surprise since nobody never ever emailed me about
this. So I would appreciate any answer.

By the way, I wish to add that some months ago I emailed M Octavius
Germanicus regarding the points because since I unsucesfully run for
the office of tribunus plebis, I should have a few more points.
However never received a single reply and even never noticed those
points in the album civium.

Thank you in advance and I wait for a solution.
Bene valete
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Propraetor provincialis Argentinae


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] What happened ? Ref.: My points and my propraetorship.
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Sat, 25 Aug 2001 09:50:29 +0200

Salve Luci Pompei,

> Salvete omnes.
> I am very surprised to find that I do not have my points as
> propraetor, and in the album civium and provincial page, my title as
> propraetor was erased. So I would thank if somebody could explain me
> what happened, since my propraetorship ends at the end of the year.
> It is an absolute surprise since nobody never ever emailed me about
> this. So I would appreciate any answer.
>
>
> By the way, I wish to add that some months ago I emailed M Octavius
> Germanicus regarding the points because since I unsucesfully run for
> the office of tribunus plebis, I should have a few more points.
> However never received a single reply and even never noticed those
> points in the album civium.
>

This was my mistake. You were originally put into the album civium as
propraetor, but the dates were wrong, so I decided to correct them. In order
to do this, I erased the old data first. But then I discovered that I was
unprivileged by Octavius' program to add "propraetor" to a citizen's list of
points. I apologize.

The feature that adds points for an unsuccesful candidacy is not yet
completed, by the way.

Vale bene,
S. Apollonius Draco


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] New provincia gallia website .... gallia.novaroma.org
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Sat, 25 Aug 2001 14:32:55 +0200

Salve Gai Apolloni, frater,

Good work. Bravo!

Vale bene,
Draco

>
> I have completed the basic gallia website with information about our
> developing provincia.
>
> Could the Nova Roma webmaster refer http://gallia.novaroma.org to
> http://www.geocities.com/sangdrax0/ plz ?
>
> Is it possible to create a new e-mailadress for me
> webmaster@-------- or retiarus@-------- as to
> unload some of the load on my hotmailaccount ? If so plz mail me the
> details needed for logging in et cetera.
>
> I am also wondering if the censors have an up to date citizen list of
> the provincia Gallia so I can put it online ...
>
> That's all for now ;)
>
> Vale !,
> Gaius Apollonius Corvus
> Retiarus Gallus
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: What happened ? Ref.: My points and my propraetorship.
From:	danielovi@--------
Date:	Sat, 25 Aug 2001 13:30:16 -0000

Salve mi optime amice Sexte:
Thank you very much (merci beaucoup!) for correcting the error. I was
really worried since at that moment I couldn´t understand what was
going on. (Now it is written twice LOL).
Errare humanum est, et nos humani sumus, itane mi amice :-) ?
Bene vale

Lucius Pompeius Octavianus

--- In novaroma@--------, "S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@p...>
wrote:
> Salve Luci Pompei,
>

> This was my mistake. You were originally put into the album civium
as
> propraetor, but the dates were wrong, so I decided to correct them.
In order
> to do this, I erased the old data first. But then I discovered that
I was
> unprivileged by Octavius' program to add "propraetor" to a
citizen's list of
> points. I apologize.
>
> The feature that adds points for an unsuccesful candidacy is not yet
> completed, by the way.
>
> Vale bene,
> S. Apollonius Draco


Subject:	[novaroma] The Democratic Element (was Er, PAX anyone?)
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Sat, 25 Aug 2001 06:40:37 -0700 (PDT)

--- "M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@--------> wrote:
> M. Apollonius Formosanus L. Sicinio Druso et omnibus

SNIP

It is NOT a matter of being against Democracy. It's
limiting the abuses of an unfettered Democracy. That
is why we need a balance between the three elements in
our government. You are correct in your assessment
that the current weakness of the Tribunes has caused
the Democratic element of our nation to be weaker than
it should be. The solution to this problem is
strengthing the office of Tribune, Not weakening the
other sections of our Government. My Proposals to
redress this problem are a matter of public record.
All I hear from you are vague complaints. Where are
your proposals for an amendment? Where is your support
for concrete proposals that others have made?

REPONDEO:

Since you are echoing my own ideas, I naturally agree
with you, support
you and encourage you. But will the Oligarchy (by
whatever supposedly
inoffensive name you may have for them) let you do it?

DRUSUS:
The Senior Consul, one of our biggest "Oligarchs" has
been very active in pushing for the strengthening of
the Tribunes office. He has all ready reported that
the Senate is going over the proposed amendment. The
term that I prefer is Aristocracy, (Government by the
best). In Antiquita "best" was equated with wealth,
here we equate it with those who are willing to do the
most for our Micronation. Of course it's not easy to
become a member of the Aristocracy. We can't just put
up a web page with an application that any one can
fill out to become an aristocrat. That would create
the same problems as we now have with the unhistoric
Patrician Plebian Ratio.

I Am actively supporting a proposal to increase the
number of Tribunes to 5. A historicly accurate number
for the early Republic, I have provided historic
support for Intercessios decided by a majority of the
Tribunes, which avoids the problem of an obstructive
or inactive Tribune. I have proposed the un historic
idea of allowing the Tribunes to promulgate in The
more Democratic People's assembly where ALL citizens
can vote on them.

REPONDEO:

To the two historic ideas I give my enthusiastic
support. The unhistoric
one is more controversial and problematic, although
obviously it has its
good points,

DRUSUS:
I Did NOT make this unhistoric proposal lightly. Right
now the CPlT is a timebomb waiting to go off. Our
Tribunes have avoided using it because they represent
the Democratic Element in our Constitution, and are
stuck with the least Democratic of all the assemblies.

I Call it a timebomb because one day we will have a
Tribune who will seek to promulgate a series of
Pleblacita, who will NOT back down as happened earlier
this year. This will create resentment among the
Patricians who will be affected by the new laws that
they can't vote on. Even attempting to use the CPlT
while the current Patrician/Plebian ratio exists will
create the hostility between the Orders that destroyed
the ancient Republic.

On the Other hand if we try to limit the powers of the
Tribunes to promulgate Pleblacita then we risk
stirring up the anger of the Plebs who will resent a
weakening of their position, and will resent it even
more if the current 5 point advantage is maintained.
Again we get hostility between the Orders.

If the Tribunes Promulgate it divides the Orders. If
we limit the Tribunes power to promulgate it divides
the Orders. The only solution I see is to redirect the
existing power to the CPoT. Perhaps we could make it a
provisional redirection. That it would occur any time
the number of Patricians exceeded 10 % of the
population. That way if we attain a more realistic
ratio between the Orders the Power to Promulgate would
revert back to the CPlT.

_______
Once we acquire a larger talent pool, I assure you
that I will also support the historic limits on
holding offices. These are you may NOT seek a second
term as Consul until 10 years have passed since your
last term, and that no citizen can serve as Censor
more than once. If you are interested in phasing these
in, I am open to your ideas.

REPONDEO:

I completely agree. Although I am not at all sure that
the talent pool
is not big enough now.

DRUSUS:
If the allmost 1000 citizens we have in the Album
reflected the number of active citizens in Nova Roma I
would agree with you. From the number of citizens who
bother to vote, or to participate in any other way,
the real number is far lower. The Lex Vedia de Curso
Honorum and the Lex Iunia de Magistratum Aetate reduce
the size of the talent pool. The Lex Vedia de assidui
et capiti censi will result in another reduction next
year.

We do have a limit on the Consuls now. The Lex Iunia
de Temporum Definitione Consulatuum bars back to back
terms as Consul, or more than two terms in a five year
period. I'm afraid this limit will have to do until we
increase the size of our talent pool, though I would
have no objection to placing the Censors and the
Praetors under a similar restriction. The best time to
consider this type of action would be next March when
we can evaluate the effects of the Lex Vedia de
assidui et capiti censi on our talent pool.

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: What happened ? Ref.: My points and my propraetorship.
From:	"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@-------->
Date:	Sat, 25 Aug 2001 16:32:25 +0200

Salve mi amice!

> Salve mi optime amice Sexte:
> Thank you very much (merci beaucoup!) for correcting the error. I was
> really worried since at that moment I couldn´t understand what was
> going on. (Now it is written twice LOL).
> Errare humanum est, et nos humani sumus, itane mi amice :-) ?

Ita sit. Si non simus homines, qui sumus?

Dii te ament,
Draco


Subject:	[novaroma] european meeting
From:	"Manius Constantinus Serapio" <manius_constantinus_serapio@-------->
Date:	Sat, 25 Aug 2001 18:39:21 -0000

AVETE OMNES

the Provincia Italia, to improve the organization of the european
meeting in Forum Fulvii ( if it will be there) has created a webpage
(thanks to Franciscus Apulus Caesar for the webdesign!):

http://www.nritalia.f2s.com/forumfulvii

BENE VALETE MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO
Civis Provinciae Italiae


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Century Points
From:	Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@-------->
Date:	Sat, 25 Aug 2001 22:38:23 +0200

Salvete Omnes!

I am flattered by being mentioned among such a illustrous crowd, but I am
not sure if I deserve it. But I promise You my friend Illustrus Marcus
Minucius Audens that I will try hard to deserve this someday!!! ;-)

Thanks for the kind words!

>No "newbie" should be fooled by those on this list who post and do
>little else. It is those great citizens like Propraetors Quintillianus
>/ Stabo and others, Consuls Germanicus / Julianus, Senators Octavius,
>Sulla, Maximus, and the other very active Senators, the hard working
>Censor Cincinnatus, and the various Scribes and junior magistrates like
>the Quaestors and Rogators who do the excellent day to day work that
>keeps this micronation moving and vibrant.

Vale

Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus

The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
Join the List for the Thule Provincia in Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThuleNovaRoma/join
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
Caeso, he who also is known as Christer Edling.
************************************************
Using a keyboard that don't want to make L! :-(
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] A (friendly) challenge to the Aediles
From:	"M Arminius Maior" <m_arminius@-------->
Date:	Sat, 25 Aug 2001 18:29:51 -0300

Salvete, omnes

I want to comment the invitation of our illustrious Consul to the Aediles.
Commentaries intersped.

--
Flavius Vedius Germanicus wrote:
>Salvete;
>
>Our Aediles, both Curule and Plebeian, have few duties at present within our
>Republic. Our Constitution defines their primary duties and powers as being
>"To issue those edicta (edicts) necessary to see to the conduct of public
>games and other festivals and gatherings,

[SNIP]

>Our legal system is
>still embryonic, with no real role for the Aediles to fill. That leaves
>public games and other festivals and gatherings.

[SNIP]

>To help alleviate that situation, and in the process get a little enthusiasm
>and national spirit going, I hereby issue a challenge to our four Aediles:
>
> * Marius Cornelius Scipio (California)
> * Titus Sertorius Albinus (Britannia)
> * Marcus Arminius Maior (Brasilia)
> * Marcus Apollonius Formosanus (Venedia)
>
>Before the end of your term in December, I challenge each of you to put
>together a real-life gathering of Nova Roman cives in your respective areas

MAIOR: Here in South America, the cives novoromani are a bit scattered. In my country, there are around 20 active cives, each of them separated by hundreds of km (my gens seems to be a exception, with 11 concentrated in the same city). Currently, there seems to be a bit unlikely that we will have a good continental novaroman gathering by now. But i will do something involving my gens, that will fit betterr at my task of a paterfamilias; call this a great gathering is pretensious.

>(no copping out with calling an on-line chat a "gathering"! <grin>). Perhaps
>a public celebration of Fontinalia in October. Perhaps the Ludii Plebeii in
>November, complete with games! Perhaps a full-blown Saturnalia in December.

MAIOR: The four Aediles and scribes are discussing the possibility of doing something to the Ludi Romani (04-17 sept, i believe); however, still not involving real life gatherings.

[SNIP]

> I would ask
>all four of you to put together a public and publicized event and try to get
>as many of your fellow Cives to attend as you can. Get your local provincial
>governors into the act. Put out the word among non-Citizens, too; maybe it
>can become a good recruiting opportunity. Turn it into a real Event!

MAIOR: You is right at this point, Consul. I confess that i didnt done very much noise about Nova Roma. Lets to see what we can do until the end of the year.

[SNIP]

>I can think of no better way to do that than to encourage the
>growth of Community through real-world get-togethers.

MAIOR: I believe that the internet is still the better way to get in touch with Nova Roma, and a real-world gathering a way to turn it more concrete. Here in Brazil, we doesnt have reenactors, legions or roman clubs. But perhaps something can be done.

>(Please note this is in no way a dispairagement against any of our good
>Aediles, but merely a good-hearted attempt to get some activity going.)

MAIOR: Thank you, Consul.

>Next year in the Forum!
>Valete,
>Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
>Consul

Valete,
Marcus Arminius Maior
Aedilis Plebis

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] A (friendly) challenge to the Aediles
From:	"M Arminius Maior" <m_arminius@-------->
Date:	Sat, 25 Aug 2001 18:29:51 -0300


Subject:	[novaroma] Yes, Democracy Here
From:	"M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@-------->
Date:	Sat, 25 Aug 2001 23:31:23 +0200

M. Apollonius Formosanus Aedilis Plebeius Novae Romae
Antonio Gryllo Graeco Pontifici et omnibus Quiritibus
S.P.D.

I remember when your macronation was finally freed from a
long-standing tyranny, Grylle, and I am saddened to see you
have so little interest in conserving the values of freedom
and equality that it won for itself. The same as I am when
I see my fellow Americans from a long and proud democratic
tradition acting similarly when they come to Nova Roma. It
is easy to take democracy for granted when it is the safely
prevalent system around us, bought by long struggles and
the deaths of many brave human beings.

But this desire to play with the opposite of democracy
here in this micronation, supposing it always safe in our
macronational environments, is only acceptable in play -
just as we may play with atomic missiles in games without
hurting any one.

But Nova Roma is acquiring more "realness" all the time,
and is planning shortly to take very real money from our
pockets and spend it. You may still think that we can play
"Roman non-democracy" here, but the time for that is
passing in the estimation of a lot of us. The issue of
Marius has shown that justice towards the individual and
towards minorities is not being served here as things now
stand. And newcomers, after I have described century
weighting to them in response to their questions, say "But
it isn't fair!" The population is changing, and your
confident "we" seems to refer to a small subgroup in the
present-moment citizenry, a group always changing and
moving statistically towards more mainstream Roman
enthusiasts and away from the exact combinations of ideas
perhaps present in the minds of the founders.

Although you may honestly believe that it is appropriate
to play "Roman non-democracy" here, this is not something
all the people here now automatically buy into. We recruit
primarily from Western Civilisation - the inheritors of the
Roman tradition and a lot of experience since - and we have
struggled - some very recently in South America and Eastern
Europe - to establish systems respecting freedom and
equality. We may gripe and sometimes whine about the
shortcomings of democratic leadership and institutions, but
mostly we appreciate being protected in our individual
rights and as equal with others - and we want more of it,
not less.

Many people can see that we can further our Roman studies,
worship, interests, and lives here better if the
fundamental justice of equality and protection of
individual and minorty rights are respected as they are in
our macronations. As the decisions here become more related
to what people think of as the "real world", as we grow and
become more significent, a deviation from the common
democratic consensus of the civilised world becomes less
and less acceptible.

I therefore propose that, instead of fighting against the
word and reality of democracy, you join with the rest of us
in hailing and celebrating Roman Democracy. In the world
there are many forms of democracy: the centralist and the
federative, the presidential system and the parliamentary
system... and there is also the Roman system of democracy
which we can be if we wish. The principal impediment is the
weakness and lack of equal development of the Plebeian
Institutions. If the tribunes were not so easily paralysed
or limited in their use of the intercessio, and if the
Plebeian Assembly were routinely used to pass plebiscita
representing an independent plebeian initiative and
protecting civil and human rights - then we would have a
true democracy in authentic Roman mould and apt for a
contemporary micronation as well.

In Roman Democracy there is a considerable tension between
the oligarchic and popular elements, as there us between
political parties or branches of government in other kinds
of democracy. That is normal. Through such tensions there
is progress. Until the Plebeian Institutions are strong
enough and actually used and made a part of the accepted
political culture of Nova Roma, we cannot have this
balanced and progressive situation.

I would like, therefore, to call on you, Grylle, and you
Vedi, and anyone else who has spoken ill-omened words
against democracy, to reconsider the danger and
inappropriateness of that. Let us all agree that what we
want is ROMAN Democracy. A Roman Democracy is a "Respublica
Libera"- not a monarchy, not an oligarchy, not a mobocracy
- but a mixed state that tries to mix the best of all in
the interests of common justice and individual freedom. We
should be concerned about developing a reputation for
fairness and respect for the dignity of the individual, and
our own special ways of maintaining those values. Not
denying them as values, but finding their Roman roots and
modes of expression.

Grylle, I see a great resemblance in what you say to what
I have always said and what I have repeated above. It is
easy for this to be obscured. When I point out that we are
an oligarchy, I do so to make clear that this element has
predominated over all else. Quod non in medio non est
virtus, Grylle! That a Roman Democracy should have a Senate
and therefore an oligarchic *element* just about goes
without saying. But the constant meeting of the various
comitia and especially that of the Plebs, their ongoing
contiones and votes through the centuries of the Republic
that have been underrated in histories written by
aristocrats, but which were the font of Rome's laws and
freedoms - if we have *that element* flourishing here
*with* our "oligarchic" Senate and "monarchical"
magistrates (to use Polybius' language - then that is what
*I* mean by Roman Democracy, and that is what I stand for
and desire too.

You say there are things such as the Establishment of
Religion which you would place above majority vote. I, like
any responsible democrat, have mine too: I would not have a
majority vote be used as an excuse for discrimination
against minorities because of their race or language or
sexuality or macro-nationality for example. Some things are
right because they are right and majority vote (or any
elitist vote or dictat either) cannot be given the right to
determine such things. Limitations on majority tyranny over
minorities and individuals is an essential part of
democracy, not its contradiction.

We are not so far from each other, Grylle, but I do wish
you would agree to forego speaking against democracy, and
adopt with me the more prudent term "Roman Democracy" as
our ideal. "Res publica" just means "state" in modern
language, and is not a political category, and a
"Respublica Libera", as Cicero calls it, is a law-governed
state where the People ultimately make the laws, and elect
the magistrates, albeit not without an honourable place for
the Senate or special protections for the Plebs.

That is a democracy in modern language. And the people in
the world who are against democracy are not the sort we
would want to recruit for Nova Roma. And the decent and
responsible people in the world that we want here are not
going to be comfortable in a place that insists on
badmouthing democracy.

I, therefore, am willing to overlook your previous
inflammatory and insulting post against me and to invite
you to private dialogue. You will quickly see that I am not
against a "Roman" system of democracy, nor am I in any way
the enemy of the Established Religion. And I think it would
be better to work our way forward together, not in
attacking each other for nothing over these constituional
issues that we fundamentally agree on very well.

Valete!

Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 19:53:41 -0000
From: amg@--------
Subject: Democracy here? (was Re: Er, PAX anyone?)

Salve Formosane

All your posts confirm my opinion that you are misplaced in
Nova Roma. Nova Roma is different from other nations. While
the macronations evolve naturally we must recover 1500
years and we have precise ideas about the point where we
want to start.
You should already know (and it is expressed in the
website) that our objective is to start this new nation
recovering the political/governmental system existent
during the Roman Republic. I don't know if the Roman
Republic was democratic or not. I simply don't care and
'Democracy' is simply not written among the goals of
Nova Roma. Nova Roma is to have a ROMAN SYSTEM SIMILAR TO
THAT OF
ANTIQUITY, period. Do you say that the Roman system was
Democracy?
Fine! Do you say that the Roman system was an oligarchy?
Fine for me as well. Nevertheless I think that the most
correct statement is to say that the Roman system had (as
has) features of a Democracy as well as features of an
Oligarchy. And for you to comply with the goals of
Nova Roma you will have to accept both sets of features. In
medio virtus, Formosane!

But even if the restoration of the Roman Republic was not a
main goal, the other main goals do not allow its complete
implementation. For example the official religion of Nova
Roma is the Religio Romana. Would you accept the decision
of a majority of citizens voting otherwise? I would not.
Personally, I would support any Dictator (or even
Emperor!!) able to override the decision of the people and
save the Religio Romana.

In summary, like it or not, and no matter how politically
incorrect it may seem, Nova Roma will only be a Democracy
for those who comply with its main goals, which constitute
the main reasons for its foundation: to restore the
political/governmental system of the Roman
Republic and guarantee the status of the Religio Romana as
the religion of the state. And in my humble opinion, those
who do not agree with the main goals of Nova Roma should
look for another place to develop their own goals as was
already done in the past by several of the Amici Dignitatis
(your previous companions, who in my opinion
were wise in their decision to leave).

Vale
Antonius Gryllus Graecus

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Marcus Apollonius Formosanus
Psterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae
Aedilis Plebeius, Amicus Dignitatis
Magister Scholae Latinae
ICQ# 61698049 AIM: MAFormosanus
Minervium Virtuale: http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/Minervium.htm
Gens Apollonia: http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/
The Gens Apollonia is accepting new members.
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All that is needed for the forces of evil to triumph in the world is for
enough good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke
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