| Subject: |
[novaroma] The Senate; |
| From: |
jmath669642reng@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 26 Aug 2001 21:54:07 -0400 (EDT) |
|
Citizens Of Nova Roma;
The Senate of Nova Roma is a group of Citizens who represent the
micronation of Nova Roma, set policy and direct the micronation movement
through the world. They review the ideas of the citizenship and discuss
among themselves the prospective direction of the micronation, and
determine from their personal views and the views of thier colleagues
those ideas which should be pursued and those which should be rejected
and those which need further research and further discussion. Froom
this research and discussion the Senators are called upon to vote on an
Agenda approved by your elected Consuls. Preceding this voting is a
period of further intense discussion about the items on the Agenda List
within the Senate.
These people of the Senate are selected from the ranks of the citizens
of Nova Roma based upon thier efforts for Nova Roma, and / or the
decision of the citizens as to who shall undertake the tasks of senior
leadership in Nova Roma. It can, I believe, be fairly said that by the
time a person is selected for the position of Senator here in Nova Roma
that he or she has certainly shown thier interest and agreement in the
Constitution tht both they and the citizens of this micronation have
agreed upon and have further indicated some detailed interest in Nova
Roma be it political, art, military, law, archaeology, or some
combination of those features. Add to this, that the members of the
Senate and thier votes are provided to the citizenship for thier review,
and comments as they shall desire. I can personnally say that I have
had very few such comments dircted at me as a result of my votes, and
each and every one has had my personal response. My constituents do not
always agree. but I have been honored by the Citizens of Nova Roma in
thier agreements that I was doing my job to the best of my ability. I
believe that almost all of my Senate Colleagues enjoy much the same
support.
Once appointed, the Senators take thier places in the Senate and learn
the aspects of dealing with others of the same abilities and interests,
and all share to varying degrees thier views , experience, ideas, and
specific talents in the effort to direct the path of the micronation.
The basis of this Senate organization is that the Majority Rule shall
decide any issue to come before the Senate for consideration as approved
by the Consuls, but also that the Minority Voice shall be protected and
heard. This is in accordance with the Constitution that everyone has
agreed to before becoming a Citizen.
These men and women, having proven themselves in many ways and under
many aspects of consideration vital to this micronation certainly
deserve the respect and the appreciation of those who have had an
important part in so selecting them, and placing them in this position.
This not only for the work that they do for Nova Roma, the hard
decisions that they make for her, but also for the selection to their
position by the approval of you the Citizens of Nova Roma.
I find it strange that considering the above, there are those disrupting
individuals within Nova Roma who insist on insulting this group of Nova
Romans, by consistantly naming them as something other than they are,
and using epithets which are designed to upset, outrage, and insult the
very personages that you, the People of Nova Roma have placed in this
August Body by your esteem, your voices and your votes.
I find it even stranger that, having denied these epithets on a
person-to-person basis they still continue to be used by these same
diruptng individuals without reason or support, and are directed at
these same people in a lecturing tone, as though the disrupting
individual naming these Senators were the only authority in this
micro-nation, and these hard-working Senators were children of limited
understanding.
I find it insulting to the Citizens of Nova Roma that this disrupting
individual continues to rail against the decisions of the Citizens of
Nova Roma and against the decisions of this body of men and women,
providing no new information, no new ideas, and no new views, but rather
slamming at the same closed door as a small child who hopes through
diligence to wear his parents down and provide him with the candy he
desires, and which they know is not good for him.
There is much to be done here in Nova Roma, in establishing Civil Laws,
strengthening important Sodalitas' which have been given rise and
emphasis by you the Citizens of Nova Roma, to meet the continuing needs
of providing adequate rewards to those of you who have served the state,
and recruit those of you who wish to serve in some positive way, and
many other important tasks presently being undertaken quietly and
diligently by those so engaged---all, rather than tear down that which
we have built together. This does not seem to matter to this insulting
disrupting individual since he has built little to nothing so busy has
he been in directing his efforts in attempting to tear down that which
has been established.
We have all been treated in recent days to this disrupting individual's
pleas for peace and an overall forgetting of past insults and past
obnoxious naming, and past innuendo of the most extreme, demanding and
unrelenting type. It is all too apparent that this plea for a "truce"
comes at a time advantageous to him to make such a plea, when those who
are new to Nova Roma and who rely upon this individual because of a
facility in different languages, which he enjoys, see him as one who may
help them. He has on the basis of this reliance asked for information
and support to assist the citizens of the new provincia of Venedia to
build a Roman Legion, and as the Praefectus of the Sodalitas Miitarium
it was my pleasure to assist those citizens in this endeavor through
this disrupting individual, although I had then as I have now, my
doubts about the veracity and truth of his request. I have in the past
been insulted by this disrupting individual, accused wrongly of actions
against the Citizens of Nova Roma by him, and when I politely informed
him that he was mistaken in his foul naming of me, as a name offensive
to me, he responded by lecturing to me in regard to my attitude, my
demeanor and my position and allowing that all of them indicated that I
was clearly the base person he has named me and all my colleagues to be,
and repeted the naming of me to which I had objected, and has continued
to do so. You may well imagine that I no longer deal with this
disrupting individual on a person-to-person basis if I can help myself
in any way. However, his recent request on behalf of the citizens of
Venedia was one such instance, and I have provided to him and the
Venedian Citizens every assistance that I and the Militarium Staff have
at our command for new citizens. I did so not for that particular
disrupting individual, but rather to assist those who desired the
information. I have not commented upon this disrupting individual's
plea for truce of recent days, nor have I commented upon his call for
forgetting his insults and his definate lack of apology in throwing in
my face those names which I had appraised him that was anthema to me,
nor have I publicly, as so many others have, derided his applications on
this net as being insincere, self-serving and used under false colors.
Upon my return home, this evening, however, I find in my E-Mail the same
terminology again directed at me and at those who serve with me in the
Senate. I find an unprovoked attack on the Censors of Nova Roma, and I
find him again lecturing a Consul who has been much in the service of
Nova Roma for the whole of his time in this micronation as though he
were some small boy who did not understand, and the lecturing disrupting
individual were his schoolmaster. This gentleman being lectured is one
of two sitting Consuls who co-founded the micronation of Nova Roma!!!
This is a man elected to the Consulship of Nova Roam by you the Citizens
of Nova Roma!!! This is a man who has produced legislation within Nova
Roma by the reams to better determine the paths by which Nova Roma shall
guide her feet. This is a Consul who at least deserves to be referred
to by the title that you have given him!!! Not so, for this disrupting
individual to provide any mark of respect to our Consul. Not so for
this disrupting individual to provide any privacy for his diatribes and
insulting name-calling to our Consul!!! Oh no, such things will be
undoubtably be reserved for the schoolmaster and not the student!!!!
Have I always agreed with Consul Germanicus, ---no I have not!!! Has he
always been right in my view, ---no he has not!!! But right or wrong he
is one of two of the elected Consuls of Nova Roma. He deserves to be
addressed by that title, and he des NOT deserve to be lectured to in
public by the likes of this disrupting individual whose only view of the
world is his own very narrow view of what is right and what is wrong.
It is apparent to me that this disrupting individual's pleas mean little
, that this disruptive individual's promises are empty, and this
disruptive individual's intentions are self-serving. However, that I
leave to the extreme good sense of the Citizens of Nova Roma, You have
done very well in the past with such as this and you will do well in the
future with his kind, I am sure.
My involvement with this man is at an end except for the duties that I
have as a Magistrate and Senator, except in one aspect. I demand his
public respect and a renunciation of his insulting naming of our elected
Magistrates. I demand his apology for his lecturing the Consul of your
choice in an insulting way, and I demand his respect for the officers
that you have placed in thier positions by your votes and your
decisions.
I dont expect that I shall get what I have asked for. This is the
internet, and there is nothing that can be asked of anyone who does not
have any honor, because they will not understand or be able to respond
intelligently to the request. I ask for nothng for myself, as I have
already determined that this disrupting individual will never do
anything for anyone unless there is an aspect within his actions that
will benefit him generously. However, I pledge this---that if I do not
get what I demand, my personal involvement with this disrupting
individual will diminish below zero to a negative value in direct
proportion to his faiure to redress his direspectful actions to your
elected Consuls and Magistrates and those who serve in the Senate.
Respectfully and Most Seriously;
Marcus Audens
Magistrate, Senator et ProConsul
Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Fwd: Unable to deliver your message |
| From: |
PompeiaAntoniaCaesar <europamoon7@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 26 Aug 2001 21:55:10 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Note: forwarded message attached.
__________________________________________________
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Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] are we at it again? |
| From: |
PompeiaAntoniaCaesar <europamoon7@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 26 Aug 2001 21:58:14 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Dear Moderator,
I have been having diffidulty with my yahoo email box
for a week. I had to forward my last message as a
attachment. If you do not receive this please let me
know.
Thank you,
Pompeia Antonia Caesaria
Pleae note that my cognomen is Caesaria not Caesar
which, out of habit I keep forgetting to change as I
forgot to change in the last post. If you could
correct this I would appreciate it.
__________________________________________________
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] are we at it again? |
| From: |
PompeiaAntoniaCaesar <europamoon7@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 26 Aug 2001 22:27:40 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Avete Omnes,
I have just read Senator Marcus Audens' long and
obviously emotionally charged post and found myself
sympathizing with all of it. My parents are of
European descent and I grew up in this country (USA)
speaking English as a second language. As early as I
can remember I knew which words were bad in both
languages and when not to use them. Mind you this was
when I was a mere child. I find it increasingly
difficult to believe that some adults here cannot
discern the difference and use this ignorance to abuse
others on this list and in private posts. whether
language is a barrier or not, there is a book called a
dictionary which is readily available to all in many
translations and when in doubt, I'm sure one can seek
assistance in finding the definition of a word. The
old adage of "think before you speak" needs to be
applied here especially to those struggling with a
foreign language. When one downgrades his peers
intentionally through the use of foul and undignified
language, he downgrades himself and all around him.
It has a domino effect that is felt all through the
organization. The purpose of this list is not only to
act as a forum to voice our opinions and knowledge but
to also encourage newcomers to join us in our mutual
love for Rome. This becomes increasingly difficult
when certain individuals undermine the efforts of
those that work very hard to keep Nova Roma alive and
growing. In essence you are shooting yourselves in
the foot by persisting in making this list a venue for
discontent and revenge. I sincerely hope that those
individuals to whom this applies rethink their course
of action and find it within themselves to dig a
little deeper to find a more productive and dignified
approach than the current methods being employed.
Vale,
Pomepia Antonia Caesaria
__________________________________________________
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Ideas for helping the aediles (a re-post) |
| From: |
=?iso-8859-1?q?Craig=20Stevenson?= <gaiussentius@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 27 Aug 2001 21:42:13 +1000 (EST) |
|
Salvete omnes,
I have been watching the list, and in particular the
thread "A challenge to the Aediles". I think this is a
very good subject, and while I understand that most of
the aediles were required to find the funds out of
their own purses, I think it is time that our
governing body gave them a hand (still a little bit
hard considering that funds are a bit rare due to
several projects).
In the republic, while a man was required to fund the
events out of his own pocket, he was also able to gain
funds out of fines and other such methods that were
open to him. I have been thinking about this for a
while now, and have the following suggestions. Either
we raise the prices of our items in the Macellum (not
a huge amount, just a minute amount) and put the extra
profits into an account for the aediles to draw upon
as their needs require. If not, what if we selected a
few items wherein the profits from that specific item
were put into an account for use by the aediles. In
both cases, the funds would be controlled by the
senate, whereby the aediles would have to state their
case to the entire body and they would vote upon it
and decide the amount required and terms of use.
These are just some ideas to get the ball rolling on
the subject, and I would like to hope that this will
stimulate other ideas. I think that the aediles could
be the key in bringing civies together, and thus we
should help them in their duties.
Hope this helps, and provides a nice little sideline
to the current debate (which seems to crop up quite
often).
Valete bene omnes,
Gaius Sentius Bruttius Sura
Legatus Australia Medius
Sacerdos Primus Australia Province
Sacerdos Mars Invictus
_____________________________________________________________________________
http://shopping.yahoo.com.au - Father's Day Shopping
- Find the perfect gift for your Dad for Father's Day
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] are we at it again? |
| From: |
"Julie & Lawrence Brooks" <anubis@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 27 Aug 2001 07:56:43 -0400 |
|
I concur with that. It's getting to the point where I just hit the delete key.
Varia Cassia
----- Original Message -----
From: PompeiaAntoniaCaesar
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 1:27 AM
Subject: [novaroma] are we at it again?
Avete Omnes,
I have just read Senator Marcus Audens' long and
obviously emotionally charged post and found myself
sympathizing with all of it. My parents are of
European descent and I grew up in this country (USA)
speaking English as a second language. As early as I
can remember I knew which words were bad in both
languages and when not to use them. Mind you this was
when I was a mere child. I find it increasingly
difficult to believe that some adults here cannot
discern the difference and use this ignorance to abuse
others on this list and in private posts. whether
language is a barrier or not, there is a book called a
dictionary which is readily available to all in many
translations and when in doubt, I'm sure one can seek
assistance in finding the definition of a word. The
old adage of "think before you speak" needs to be
applied here especially to those struggling with a
foreign language. When one downgrades his peers
intentionally through the use of foul and undignified
language, he downgrades himself and all around him.
It has a domino effect that is felt all through the
organization. The purpose of this list is not only to
act as a forum to voice our opinions and knowledge but
to also encourage newcomers to join us in our mutual
love for Rome. This becomes increasingly difficult
when certain individuals undermine the efforts of
those that work very hard to keep Nova Roma alive and
growing. In essence you are shooting yourselves in
the foot by persisting in making this list a venue for
discontent and revenge. I sincerely hope that those
individuals to whom this applies rethink their course
of action and find it within themselves to dig a
little deeper to find a more productive and dignified
approach than the current methods being employed.
Vale,
Pomepia Antonia Caesaria
__________________________________________________
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http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] carmen |
| From: |
"Manius Constantinus Serapio" <manius_constantinus_serapio@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:49:56 -0000 |
|
AVETE OMNES
[trimetri iambici]
Cum candidis togis fortibusque ivimus.
Sinus gloria atque honor fuere singuli
et singulae virtus fuere umbrae sinuum.
Textilis fila ad hoc, inventum callidum.
Vestitus illi processerunt graviter
triumphantesque, divina non sine ope,
per orbem terrarum, orbis per memoriam.
Vestitus illos, procedente tempore,
homines celaverunt alios homines.
Eidem rursum panni sunt induendi.
Qua re excrementa detrahamus umeris
pondusque id pretiosius componamus!
------------------------------------------------------------
[iambic trimeters]
We went with white and powerful togas.
Every drape was a glory and a honor,
and every shade given by the drapes was a virtue.
And every thread of the cloth, a clever move.
Those clothes proceeded with austerity
and triumphing, not without the divine intervention,
through the world, through the memory of the world.
Those clothes, in time,
have been hidden by men from men.
Those garments themselves have to be weared again.
Therefore, remove the dung from your shoulders
and set that nobler weight down on them!
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I hope the english translation is quite good and comprehensible...
BENE VALETE MANIVS-CONSTANTINVS-SERAPIO
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Definitions (was are we at it again?) |
| From: |
labienus@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 27 Aug 2001 09:10:18 US/Central |
|
Salvete
Pompeia Antonia scripsit:
> whether language is a barrier or not, there is a
> book called a dictionary which is readily available
> to all...
ol·i·gar·chy (l-gärk, l-)
n. pl. ol·i·gar·chies
1. a. Government by a few, especially by a small faction of persons or
families.
b. Those making up such a government.
2. A state governed by a few persons.
(The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.)
In light of the reactions some have to the word defined above, I would like to
state for the record that that definition is the one that I use, and that I do
not therefore ever mean it in a pejorative sense. While I will generally
attempt not to use the term when speaking directly to or about an individual
who has said that he or she dislikes it, I will occasionally forget. I will
also continue to use it when speaking of any group that is oligarchic in
nature. E.g. the Senate of Nova Roma represents the oligarchic element of the
Roman mixed constitution, and is therefore an oligarchy.
Also, while I might prefer to be flattered with the term aristocrat, I do not
take any offense at being referred to as an oligarch, as I am one of those few
who make up Nova Roma's oligarchic element.
Valete
T Labienus Fortunatus
|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] MXVI Cives |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:34:06 -0400 |
|
Salvete
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lucius Equitius [mailto:vze23hw7@--------]
> Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 12:47 PM
>
> I am proud to announce that NovaRoma now has passed the 1000 citizen mark.
> We now have 1016 citizens.
I just wanted to take a moment and point out this delightful milestone,
which may have passed unnoticed in the current whirl of conversation here.
This is truely a momentous occasion, and I am pleased beyond measure that we
have been able to achieve such miraculous growth and prosperity in such a
short time. Even with our occasional blow-ups here and there, we really have
something good here, and more and more people are coming to help us build
our nascent Republic into the true restoration of ancient Rome it can be.
Thanks be to the Gods of Olympus for the good fortune They have graced us
with. May They continue to do so, and may we continue to be worthy of Their
favor.
Valete,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Are we at it again? Yes indeed. |
| From: |
ksterne@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:26:54 -0000 |
|
>>But I guess your affection for Formosanus plays a role, too. As you
said on the Back Alley list: ".. But, I must say I just love
discrediting M. Apollonius every attempt he tries to impunge my
dignitas."
So here we have it. Thanks for the admission. So Sulla is not a
bigot, but he simply hates Formosanus. Oh well.<<
Salve Sexte Appolloni,
Don't you think you are being unfair to Censor Lucius Cornelius?
Here is the full text of his comment on the BA:
"I am so tired of being falsely labeled as a homophobic, bigoted
person....its just not true. But, I must say I just love discrediting
M. Apollonius every attempt he tries to impunge my dignitas."
It seems to me all Lucius Cornelius is saying is that he enjoys
winning AFTER he is attacked. Hardly an admission of hate, and a
pretty human reaction.
To see something more hateful, I refer you to the messages of your
frater Tiberius to our Censor and long time servant of our Republic.
Vale,
Gaius Popillius Laenas
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Comitia Centuriata Vote Results |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 27 Aug 2001 13:06:35 -0400 |
|
Flavius Vedius Germanicus novaromani S.P.D.
The voting in the Comitia Centuriata is concluded, and the rogatores have
forwarded the results. I hereby report them to the People.
The Lex Vedia de Ratione Comitiorum Centuriatorum passed. 74 centuries voted
in favor, 4 centuries voted against, 4 centuries abstained, 2 centuries
tied, and the remaining centuries failed to vote.
The Lex Vedia de Privatus Rebus also passed. 67 centuries voted in favor, 9
centuries voted against, 1 century abstained, 5 centuries tied, and the
remaining centuries failed to vote.
Thanks to the Gods for their favor and wisdom, thanks to all those who
participated in the vote, and shame on those who failed to vote.
Valete,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Definitions (was are we at it again?) |
| From: |
"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 27 Aug 2001 10:20:43 -0700 (PDT) |
|
--- labienus@-------- wrote:
> Salvete
>
> Pompeia Antonia scripsit:
> > whether language is a barrier or not, there is a
> > book called a dictionary which is readily
> available
> > to all...
>
> ol·i·gar·chy (l-gärk, l-)
> n. pl. ol·i·gar·chies
> 1. a. Government by a few, especially by a small
> faction of persons or
> families.
> b. Those making up such a government.
> 2. A state governed by a few persons.
> (The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English
> Language, Fourth Edition
> Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.)
>
> In light of the reactions some have to the word
> defined above, I would like to
> state for the record that that definition is the one
> that I use, and that I do
> not therefore ever mean it in a pejorative sense.
> While I will generally
> attempt not to use the term when speaking directly
> to or about an individual
> who has said that he or she dislikes it, I will
> occasionally forget. I will
> also continue to use it when speaking of any group
> that is oligarchic in
> nature. E.g. the Senate of Nova Roma represents the
> oligarchic element of the
> Roman mixed constitution, and is therefore an
> oligarchy.
>
> Also, while I might prefer to be flattered with the
> term aristocrat, I do not
> take any offense at being referred to as an
> oligarch, as I am one of those few
> who make up Nova Roma's oligarchic element.
>
> Valete
> T Labienus Fortunatus
>
Salvete,
Yes from a purely Technical definition "oligarchy" is
a neutral term. However in the USA this word is almost
always used as a pejorative context. Because of the
way it's used many Americans see an implied "selfish"
or "corrupt" in front of the word.
This is why "oligarchy" is used as an attack word in
American Politics. IE "President Bush is a tool of the
Wealthy Oligarchy" (I make no claims to the truth of
this statement, but cite it as an example of an attack
word in American Politics).
The Context that one citizen constantly uses this word
leaves little doubt that he intends it in a pejorative
sense, and is it as a political attack word. He
continues to use Oligarch, despite being told numerous
times that the people he is using it against consider
the term Insulting and Demeaning.
This is the same person who was so vocal about
extending a former citizen the courtesy of referring
to him as Marius, rather the using the technically
correct references to HER as MARIA. I have never cared
for double standards. Why do some citizens have to
right not to be referred to in terms they find
demeaning, while others do not?
I Will defend his right to attach this label to people
who find it demeaning and insulting. That is freedom
of Speech. I Also will use my Freedom of speech to
state that I find his verbal assault to be boorish and
a major detraction from his Dignitas.
Our Constitution clearly states that the Senate is
intended to be "the repository of experience and
wisdom in the affairs of State". Aristocracy,
Government by the best, is a better choice of words
for what the Senate is intended to be. That and the
negative baggage that is attached to Oligarchy is why
I consider Aristocracy to be the preferred term for
this branch of our government.
__________________________________________________
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Edictum Propraetoricium XXIV about the Appointment of a new |
| From: |
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus <tjalens.h@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 27 Aug 2001 19:49:31 +0200 |
|
Ex Officio Propraetoris Thulae
Edictum Propraetoricium XXIV about the Appointment of a new Triumvir
Academia Novae Romae in Thule.
It is a great pleasure for me, Caeso Fabius Quintilianus, to appoint this
Honorable citizens to the staff of the Academia Novae Romae in Thule and my
Cohors Propraetoris (The Propraetorian Staff, Provincial Governament)!
I, as a Nova Roman citizen within the Provincia Thule, am proud to see the
Gravitas and Pietas this citizen from our sisterprovince Hispania, Honorabe
Gnaeus Salix Astur, shows!
I also want to thank Illustrus Senator, Quaestor and Proconsul Marcus
Minucius Audens publicly for the commitment and support he has shown during
his term as a Triumvir Novae Romae Academiae in Thule (Member of the Board
of the Nova Roman Academy in Thule).
I. Honorable Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Thules Gaius Salix Astur is
hereby appointed as Triumvir Novae Romae Academiae in Thule (Member of the
Board of the Nova Roman Academy in Thule).
II. Above appointed official is asked to observe that he is bound by the
"Approved Regula (Charter) for the Administration of Thule" as it was
published on the 15th of April 2001 and the two Edicta concerning the
Academia: Edictum Propraetoricium XII about the Approved NOVA ROMA ACADEMIA
THULES and Edictum Propraetoricium XVI about Additional Rules and
Guidelines regarding the organization of Academia Novae Romae in Thule.
III. As an official of Provincia Thule he is asked to, within one week
swear the public oath shown on
http://www.novaroma.org/tabularium/lex99191002.html, using both his Nova
Roman name and within parenthesis his macroworld (real) name. The Oath must
be published on the NovaRomaThule List and the Nova Roma Roma Main List!
IV. This edictum becomes effective immediately.
Given August 27th, in the year of the consulship of Flavius Vedius
Germanicus and Marcus Cassius Iulianus, 2754 AUC.
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Propraetor Thules
Vale
Caeso Fabius Quintilianus
Quaestor of Nova Roma
Propraetor of Thule
Accensus to Consul Marcus Cassius Julianus
The Opinions expressed are my own,
and not an offical opinion of Nova Roma
************************************************
Join the Main List for Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/novaroma
Join the List for the Thule Provincia in Nova Roma
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThuleNovaRoma/join
************************************************
The homepage of the Nova Roma Provincia Thule:
http://thule.novaroma.org/
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
"Do not give in to hate. That leads to the dark side."
************************************************
Caeso, he who also is known as Christer Edling.
************************************************
Using a keyboard that don't want to make L! :-(
************************************************
PRIVATE PHONE: +90 - 10 09 10
DOG BOARDING HOUSE PHONE: +90 - 503 56
MOBILE: +70 - 643 88 80
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Definitions (was are we at it again?) |
| From: |
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 27 Aug 2001 10:51:46 -0700 |
|
labienus@-------- wrote:
>
> Salvete
>
> Pompeia Antonia scripsit:
> > whether language is a barrier or not, there is a
> > book called a dictionary which is readily available
> > to all...
>
> ol·i·gar·chy (l-gärk, l-)
> n. pl. ol·i·gar·chies
> 1. a. Government by a few, especially by a small faction of persons or
> families.
> b. Those making up such a government.
> 2. A state governed by a few persons.
> (The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
> Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.)
>
> In light of the reactions some have to the word defined above, I would like to
> state for the record that that definition is the one that I use, and that I do
> not therefore ever mean it in a pejorative sense. While I will generally
> attempt not to use the term when speaking directly to or about an individual
> who has said that he or she dislikes it, I will occasionally forget. I will
> also continue to use it when speaking of any group that is oligarchic in
> nature. E.g. the Senate of Nova Roma represents the oligarchic element of the
> Roman mixed constitution, and is therefore an oligarchy.
>
> Also, while I might prefer to be flattered with the term aristocrat, I do not
> take any offense at being referred to as an oligarch, as I am one of those few
> who make up Nova Roma's oligarchic element.
Ave,
However, there is something much more than just the dictionary
defination. As it has been pointed out before there IS a subtle
meaning. I know that in Plato's Republic there is an Aristocracy (that
has the same meaning) but the subtle difference is that it refers to
sound and stable rule by the few. Then there is Oligarchy which is the
opposite. M. Apollonius knows these differences. Those of us offended
by his words know the difference. Yet, M. Apollonius chooses to still
use the negative word.
I just wanted to clarify that while the dictionary has that definition
there are subtle meanings not included.
Vale,
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> Valete
> T Labienus Fortunatus
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Voting for the CC. |
| From: |
"J. Meuleman" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 27 Aug 2001 19:21:13 +0200 |
|
Salvete omnes,
Well, I agree on this one. Cheers!
Valete bene,
Draco
> Avete Omnes,
>
> I would like to personally congratulate all of those
> in Nova Roma who have worked so hard over the last 3
> years to achieve this memorable day of reaching 1000
> cives in our micronation. I will drink a toast and
> rejoice in that. This is only the beginning and it
> will be quite a ride to see where it goes from here.
>
> Valete,
>
> Pompeia Antonia Caesaria
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] The Senate |
| From: |
"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 27 Aug 2001 19:39:35 +0200 |
|
Sextus Apollonius Draco Quaestori Marco Minucio Audenti atque omnibus
Quiritibus SPD
Senator, I have always had respect for you, even though I did not always
agree with you. Judging from the positive sentiments many citizens have when
they read your postings, I might even call you a monument of Nova Roma
I do not use this word light-heartedly and without thinking. Monuments often
remind us of important things in life, have a story to tell, and can
sometimes even speak for themselves without speaking a simple word. These
monuments are given a central place in a society, and are rightfully revered
as concrete cultural pillars. Monuments, however, are usually very hard, and
will break or crumble before they budge or bow, and will always retain the
severe gaze over his people.
In this spirit, allow me to reply to some points you made.
> I find it strange that considering the above, there are those disrupting
> individuals within Nova Roma who insist on insulting this group of Nova
> Romans, by consistantly naming them as something other than they are,
> and using epithets which are designed to upset, outrage, and insult the
> very personages that you, the People of Nova Roma have placed in this
> August Body by your esteem, your voices and your votes.
>
To my recollection, some citizens have indeed been elected into the Senate,
but some haven't, so your last point is wrong. As for the former point, I am
very sorry if you consider me as a disrupting person. I am not that way by
nature, nor by intention. But have you never considered that these
"disruptions" may be caused and effectuated by other people than those very
persons you complain about?
And you might just as well name a cat a cat, and stick the name tags of the
Apollonii to those whom you consider "disruptive persons". This alienating
term serves your rhetoric - which you accuse your opponents of - well, but
is a cover-up for our names, as everyone knows.
> I find it even stranger that, having denied these epithets on a
> person-to-person basis they still continue to be used by these same
> diruptng individuals without reason or support, and are directed at
> these same people in a lecturing tone, as though the disrupting
> individual naming these Senators were the only authority in this
> micro-nation, and these hard-working Senators were children of limited
> understanding.
>
Some of them seem to be. Once again, you are making a nice style figure
which makes the real facts smudgy. Todate, there are only about four or five
Senatores with whom Formosanus - let us mention his name - had this sort of
conflict. It is not "the Senate". That would be a rather emotional
exaggeration.
> I find it insulting to the Citizens of Nova Roma that this disrupting
> individual continues to rail against the decisions of the Citizens of
> Nova Roma and against the decisions of this body of men and women,
> providing no new information, no new ideas, and no new views, but rather
> slamming at the same closed door as a small child who hopes through
> diligence to wear his parents down and provide him with the candy he
> desires, and which they know is not good for him.
>
The "Citizens of Nova Roma" is a group of people everyone refers to, but
never hears from, so it seems. They only play a role in your letter, but not
in the actual conflict, which is between a few people and a few other
people. And how would you know what is good and what not for a man who is
less than ten years younger than you are? I find this patronizing. Besides,
the slamming you mention might be caused because no one is really listening,
but protecting their dignitas, which often seems to be confused with their
ego.
> There is much to be done here in Nova Roma, in establishing Civil Laws,
> strengthening important Sodalitas' which have been given rise and
> emphasis by you the Citizens of Nova Roma, to meet the continuing needs
> of providing adequate rewards to those of you who have served the state,
> and recruit those of you who wish to serve in some positive way, and
> many other important tasks presently being undertaken quietly and
> diligently by those so engaged---all, rather than tear down that which
> we have built together. This does not seem to matter to this insulting
> disrupting individual since he has built little to nothing so busy has
> he been in directing his efforts in attempting to tear down that which
> has been established.
>
The above paragraph contains a subtle lie. Formosanus said that there is
much good here, but alas, you seem to have forgotten that. There is, by the
way, a difference between "tearing down" and "changing".
(snipped)
> Upon my return home, this evening, however, I find in my E-Mail the same
> terminology again directed at me and at those who serve with me in the
> Senate. I find an unprovoked attack on the Censors of Nova Roma,...
Unprovoked? No. The Censors? No. One Censor.
> ...and I
> find him again lecturing a Consul who has been much in the service of
> Nova Roma for the whole of his time in this micronation as though he
> were some small boy who did not understand, and the lecturing disrupting
> individual were his schoolmaster. This gentleman being lectured is one
> of two sitting Consuls who co-founded the micronation of Nova Roma!!!
> This is a man elected to the Consulship of Nova Roam by you the Citizens
> of Nova Roma!!! This is a man who has produced legislation within Nova
> Roma by the reams to better determine the paths by which Nova Roma shall
> guide her feet. This is a Consul who at least deserves to be referred
> to by the title that you have given him!!! Not so, for this disrupting
> individual to provide any mark of respect to our Consul. Not so for
> this disrupting individual to provide any privacy for his diatribes and
> insulting name-calling to our Consul!!! Oh no, such things will be
> undoubtably be reserved for the schoolmaster and not the student!!!!
>
What do you expect? That Formosanus produces legislation? He cannot, and you
know that. Criticism on the establishment does not equal disrespect. Such
reasoning, as much as I hate to admit, is rather authoritarian of nature.
> Have I always agreed with Consul Germanicus, ---no I have not!!! Has he
> always been right in my view, ---no he has not!!! But right or wrong he
> is one of two of the elected Consuls of Nova Roma. He deserves to be
> addressed by that title, and he des NOT deserve to be lectured to in
> public by the likes of this disrupting individual whose only view of the
> world is his own very narrow view of what is right and what is wrong.
And you a hereby "forgetting" that the Senior Consul is all but an innocent
victim himself. We all have blood on our hands here.
> It is apparent to me that this disrupting individual's pleas mean little
> , that this disruptive individual's promises are empty, and this
> disruptive individual's intentions are self-serving. However, that I
> leave to the extreme good sense of the Citizens of Nova Roma, You have
> done very well in the past with such as this and you will do well in the
> future with his kind, I am sure.
>
Again, the "us versus them" mentality slips into your speech. As I have said
before, you are a good speechmaker, and I have no doubt that you are a very
sincere man, which I respect you for. But you are talking about things you
don't know. You are judging a person you don't know.
> My involvement with this man is at an end except for the duties that I
> have as a Magistrate and Senator, except in one aspect. I demand his
> public respect and a renunciation of his insulting naming of our elected
> Magistrates. I demand his apology for his lecturing the Consul of your
> choice in an insulting way, and I demand his respect for the officers
> that you have placed in thier positions by your votes and your
> decisions.
>
Not everyone voted for those people, if I may remark so.
> I dont expect that I shall get what I have asked for. This is the
> internet, and there is nothing that can be asked of anyone who does not
> have any honor, because they will not understand or be able to respond
> intelligently to the request.
> I ask for nothng for myself, as I have
> already determined that this disrupting individual will never do
> anything for anyone unless there is an aspect within his actions that
> will benefit him generously. However, I pledge this---that if I do not
> get what I demand, my personal involvement with this disrupting
> individual will diminish below zero to a negative value in direct
> proportion to his faiure to redress his direspectful actions to your
> elected Consuls and Magistrates and those who serve in the Senate.
>
> Respectfully and Most Seriously;
>
In concluding my response, let me tell you something. When I just joined
Nova Roma's email list, I think about mid-May, I thought Formosanus and you
were very alike in style. You were both capable of producing magnificent,
poetic letters with a glimpse of wisdom. It is now all too peculiar that you
are lecturing the man you are accusing of lecturing others. It is funny that
you insult those who you accuse of slander. And it is ultimately bizarre
that you are using hollow rhetoric to defeat someone else's.
Optime vale,
Sextus Apollonius Draco
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Attack, or defence? |
| From: |
"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 27 Aug 2001 19:39:42 +0200 |
|
Salve Marce Octavi,
(snipped the parts I agreed with or found useless to still comment)
> > You're acting like a master thief who's just been robbed himself.
> > If you treat a person like that, you may expect such reactions.
>
> This is absurd. Sulla did nothing wrong, he was viciously attacked
> by a foul-mouthed delinquent just for doing his duty. This was not
> a "reaction" to an unfair treatment, it was a case of a spoiled child
> trying to make trouble because he did not get his way.
>
In private, Formosanus explained the initial reason given by the Censores
for not authorizing Sokarus' citizenship was that they never got
paterfamilial authorization, even though it was definitely sent. When it
was, he was still refused, on basis of his name, which was not proper, while
there are names that have been authorized under Sulla's Censorship which are
probably just as strange. I would not have resorted to the name calling, and
as I said, it is not justifyable, but it is understandable. I think no one
enjoys being in a limbo for months.
Vale bene!
S. Apollonius Draco
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Are we at it again? Yes indeed. |
| From: |
"S. Apollonius Draco" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:44:25 +0200 |
|
Salve Gai Popilli,
> Don't you think you are being unfair to Censor Lucius Cornelius?
> Here is the full text of his comment on the BA:
>
> "I am so tired of being falsely labeled as a homophobic, bigoted
> person....its just not true. But, I must say I just love discrediting
> M. Apollonius every attempt he tries to impunge my dignitas."
>
I was fair. I said: "So Sulla is not a bigot, but he simply hates
Formosanus. Oh well." Nothing more, nothing less. "I love it" implies
pleasure, and not necessarily victory, by the way.
(snipped)
Vale bene!
Draco
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] ATTN [Religio Romana] ante diem VI Kalendas Septembres (August 27) |
| From: |
"Antonio Grilo" <amg@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:04:55 +0100 |
|
This is a dies nefastus publicus (NP), a day for special religious
observance on which no legal action or public business can take place.
Today is the Volturnalia, a festival in honour of Volturnus. Volturnus is a
very ancient Roman deity, since he has a Flamen priest of his own, the
Flamen Volturnalis. Nevertheless the Romans of the classical era had already
forgotten his precise meaning. From some sources we know that he was
regarded as the father of the fountain deity Iuturna, which may allow us to
identify him with river Volturnus in Campania. But other accounts identify
him with Eurus, the south-east wind. If the latter is true, Volturnus may
have been regarded as the devastating growling wind who burned the grapes at
this time of year, the same wind that raised clouds of dust against the
Romans at the battle of Cannae.
The month Sextilis is sacred to Ceres. It's name was later changed to
Augustus in honour of Emperor Octavius Caesar Augustus.
Dii vos bene ament,
Antonius Gryllus Graecus
Pontifex
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Lex Vedia de Privatus Rebus |
| From: |
Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 27 Aug 2001 14:18:06 -0500 (CDT) |
|
M. Octavius Germanicus Curator Araneum Omnibus Civibus SPD,
In accoordance with the following section of the new Lex Vedia
de Privatus Rebus:
"Individual citizens may, at their express request, allow
confidential information of their choice to be made available
and/or public, and may rescind such permission as they see fit."
I am pleased to announce that a long-planned feature has finally been
enabled on the site; the ability for any citizen to mark their
email address as public so that it will be seen in the Album Civium.
(All magistrates and patresfamiliae already have public addresses).
To mark your email address as public information, go to your individual
Album Civium page, log in with your password, and "EDIT" your
information; then return to your Album Civium page to see the display.
Valete, Octavius.
--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator
"... one of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that,
lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of
their C programs." -- Robert Firth
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Lex Vedia de Privatus Rebus |
| From: |
ksterne@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 27 Aug 2001 19:58:22 -0000 |
|
Salve Marce Octavi,
Excellent feature re the public vs. private e-mail. I just changed
mine and it works perfectly. The system even sends you an e-mail to
confirm you authorized the change.
Congratulations on having the feature up and running the same day the
law is announced passed, and thanks for your continued hard work on
behalf of our Republic.
Vale,
Gaius Popillius Laenas
Robur et Decus
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Introduction |
| From: |
otto_von_sitter@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 27 Aug 2001 19:03:31 -0000 |
|
Hi! I'm a new citizen. My real name is CJ Robert Sitter, but my
Roman name is Marcus Cornelius Tiberius. I first became interested
in Roman history in my World History class and became interested
again after I saw the movie Gladiator. I was actually searching for
information reguarding Roman military uniforms when I stumbled upon
Nova Roma. I am now proud to say I am a citizen of New Rome!
Marcus Cornelius Tiberius
|
| Subject: |
Re:[novaroma] |
| From: |
Maximina Octavia <myownq@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 27 Aug 2001 11:13:19 -0700 (PDT) |
|
"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@--------> wrote:
M. Apollonius Formosanus Aedilis Plebeius Novae Romae
Antonio Gryllo Graeco Pontifici et omnibus Quiritibus
S.P.D. First of all I would like to point out that
Marcus Apollonius is using the modern "definition" of
Democracy, while insisting on the ancient definition
of Oligarchy. I'm not sure if this is due to confusion
on his part or a desire to confuse others.
Ave Honorable Drusus,
Speaking of confusing, in the future could you please note the areas on the message where you are responding. This entire run-together message was nearly impossible for me to follow.
Vale, respectfully, Maximina Octavia
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Are we at it again? Yes indeed. |
| From: |
Maximina Octavia <myownq@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 27 Aug 2001 12:44:06 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Mike Rasschaert <hadescallias@--------> wrote:
Salvete Omni
> And, ultimately for your information, given the abuse I have taken,
> which I have never encountered before, I have recused myself and
have
> sent this to my colleague for him to decide this issue.
What kind of abuse was that? I've got a newsflash for you, Sulla.
Treat people the same way you want to be treated and saying that you
felt abused is just being hypocrite on your behalf. You want to
appear as a saint or something like that and this somewhat exposed
you for what you truly are: a hypocritical, corrupted senator who
thinks that he can get away with things. btw: i received the email
about the changing of the praenomen days after i openly admitted that
i supported my Pater Marcus Apollonius Formusanus and since my
citizenship was still pending, well i think that must of you can
guess what happened next. I did received a email from Quintus Fabius
Maximus wich i respond to by saing that i comply with the edict wich
i already told Sulla in a brutal way but liked i mentioned to Quintus
Fabius Maximus is the fact that the abuse only goes out for you and
is not intended for anyone else.
Valete omni
Tiberius Apollonius Callias
Avete Callias and Omnes,
Your foul language and name calling of any Nova Roman is inexcusable.
When I first joined NR, I requested the name Maximina Octavia Octaviana. I was told by the censors that this name appeared redundant and that it might be better to wait and gain some experience before choosing a cognomen.
I thank them now for preventing me from making a fool of myself and making my ignorance obvious to everyone. I certainly did not feel then nor do I now that I should berate anyone for helping me to use the correct procedure in choosing a Roman name.
If the Pater of your family had truly been concerned for your welfare, he and they would have attempted to guide you in the proper direction in this matter. *Perhaps* he was counting on just the disruption that happened by using you to instigate it? Remember, some people are just pawns in the game of politics and they are often family members.
You have shown a lack of dignity and respect using other people's actions as an excuse for your own offensive behavior.
In the future, it may serve you better to think for yourself instead of taking on the grudges of others of which you know very little. If you are unable to discern Formosanus' *love of drama* over being forthright and over what best serves his Roman family, I will be happy to take you through his messages line for line and reveal it.
I write to you as a concerned citizen and one who initially made a lot of mistakes in my earlier participation. I sincerely hope to save you further embarassment and I pray that we may yet be friends and help to guide each other well for the benefit of all Nova Romans and not just for the agenda of any particular individual.
Vale, Maximina Octavia
|
| Subject: |
Re:[novaroma] |
| From: |
"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 27 Aug 2001 14:11:53 -0700 (PDT) |
|
--- Maximina Octavia <myownq@--------> wrote:
>
>
> "L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@--------> wrote:
>
> M. Apollonius Formosanus Aedilis Plebeius Novae
> Romae
> Antonio Gryllo Graeco Pontifici et omnibus
> Quiritibus
> S.P.D. First of all I would like to point out that
> Marcus Apollonius is using the modern "definition"
> of
> Democracy, while insisting on the ancient definition
> of Oligarchy. I'm not sure if this is due to
> confusion
> on his part or a desire to confuse others.
>
>
>
> Ave Honorable Drusus,
>
> Speaking of confusing, in the future could you
> please note the areas on the message where you are
> responding. This entire run-together message was
> nearly impossible for me to follow.
>
> Vale, respectfully, Maximina Octavia
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
The problem was Yahoo mail. It truncates longer posts
when you attempt to reply. I had to Fwd it to another
account and use Basilica to reply to The message from
my Yahoo account. The HTML formating that showed what
was the original post and what was the reply was
stripped out by the Yahoo mail agent.
Now that I know this problem exists I'm looking for a
different free mail service.
L. Sicinius Drusus
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Introduction |
| From: |
"Uriel Storm" <uriel@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:37:05 -0500 |
|
Welcome, Marcus Cornelius Tiberius, to Nova Roma. I am a gensmate of yours,
Decius Cornelius Sepulchatius, and I extend to you not only the hand of
friendship to a new ROmani, but also the familial hand as well.
=^.^=
Uriel Storm
The Perfect Blue
'A friend in need's a friend in deed
My Japanese is better..
My friend confessed she passed the test
and we will never sever'
----- Original Message -----
From: <otto_von_sitter@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 2:03 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Introduction
> Hi! I'm a new citizen. My real name is CJ Robert Sitter, but my
> Roman name is Marcus Cornelius Tiberius. I first became interested
> in Roman history in my World History class and became interested
> again after I saw the movie Gladiator. I was actually searching for
> information reguarding Roman military uniforms when I stumbled upon
> Nova Roma. I am now proud to say I am a citizen of New Rome!
>
> Marcus Cornelius Tiberius
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Oath of Office (was Edictum Propraetoricium XXIV about the Appointment of a new Triumvir Academia Novae Romae in Thule.) |
| From: |
Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> |
| Date: |
Mon, 27 Aug 2001 15:09:25 -0700 (PDT) |
|
I, Gnaeus Salix Astur (Rodrigo Álvarez) do hereby solemnly swear to
uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests
of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.
As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Gnaeus Salix Astur (Rodrigo Álvarez)
swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings,
and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.
I, Gnaeus Salix Astur (Rodrigo Álvarez) swear to uphold and defend the
Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to
act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.
I, Gnaeus Salix Astur (Rodrigo Álvarez) swear to protect and defend the
Constitution of Nova Roma.
I, Gnaeus Salix Astur (Rodrigo Álvarez) further swear to fulfill the
obligations and responsibilities of the office of Triumvir Novae Romae
Academiae in Thule to the best of my abilities.
On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods
and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I
accept the position of Triumvir Novae Romae Academiae in Thule and all
the rights, privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant
thereto.
=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Triumvir Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Novae Romae in Thule.
__________________________________________________
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| Subject: |
[novaroma] From One Paterfamilias to Another |
| From: |
"M. Apollonius Formosanus" <bvm3@--------> |
| Date: |
Tue, 28 Aug 2001 00:57:35 +0200 |
|
M. Apollonius Formosanus Paterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae
L. Cornelio Sullae Felici Patrifamilias Gentis Corneliae
S.P.D.
Draco scripsit:
Salvete Quirites,
In the past few days, I think every listmember will have
seen that my paterfamilias, Formosanus, has adjusted his
style, and repeatedly tried to establish peace and dialogue
with his opponents, instead of war and conflict. Lucius
Sicinius and Marcus Octavius replied neutrally to
positively, and established a private dialogue, while Sulla
and the Vedii replied with suspicion and contempt.
But I must admit that something weird is going on here. In
public, Sulla continues to defend the name change law he
co-authored with his former colleague, while in private, he
is talking of changing it. Mi Sulla, why are you doing this
in private, and not on your laws list, or on the Vedian
Baths list? And what makes you willing to change the law
now? Perhaps the fact that a gensmember is involved, I
don't know. But I guess your affection for Formosanus plays
a role, too. As you said on the Back Alley list:
".. But, I must say I just love discrediting M. Apollonius
every attempt he tries to impunge my dignitas."
So here we have it. Thanks for the admission. So Sulla is
not a bigot, but he simply hates Formosanus. Oh well.
RESPONDEO:
So, in the end it seems that even you, Sulla, have come to
see that the law you wrote is excessively harsh and creates
problems for real living and breathing people, some of
whom, unlike Marius, do engage your human caring and
sympathy.
I do not want to gloat over the fact that my moral
concerns over this matter now have to be acknowledged by
you too. I do regret that in Marius Peregrinus a valuable
member of the Nova Roman community was driven out before
you realised this. But what is done is done. All we can do
now is look to the future.
As you know, when I first came into Nova Roma, you
single-handedly caught up on the applications backlog and
got me in, not without a kind word. I was grateful and
favourably disposed towards you. I have stated that several
times on this list. It was only after you began to cause
needless problems for a civis who needed some human
understanding and didn't get it, and created legislation
that would institutionalise this, that I became alienated
from you because I am not a person who likes to see power
over other people misused in such a way as to humiliate
them just to prove itself.
I wondered for a long time why you, who often seem to be a
kindly and good-hearted paterfamilias and friend, had acted
so. Somehow it did not seem plausible that you were
motivated by such intense pure prejudice, and after trying
on various theories, I came to the conclusion that whatever
caused the original denial of Marius' request, the force
behind the long battles against him was simply offended
pride that he had insisted on what he saw as his rights
despite your decision.
And now it seems to be becoming clearer and clearer that
much of your motivation since has been simply to confound
me. After realising that my concerns over this issue had
some justification after all, it might have been reasonable
to contact me quietly and say, "All right, Formy, you know
actually I have come in my own thoughts to sort of agree
that there *are* problems about that lex; maybe we could
get together and discuss them." You, however, plan with
others behind my back, presumably so as to take all the
credit, even though I have been the one who has had to
endure endless taunts, criticism and abuse in order to keep
the ethical problem of this lex before the public eye, and
make its evils apparent to bored or unwilling ears.
But I do not choose to berate and attack you, Sulla, at
this point in time. It would be easy to do so, but I would
like to look at this as an opportunity for something
better: with an agreement that this lex has to be changed
to make it more humane, the biggest and most enduring
obstacle between us is removed, and a chance is opened for
lasting peace between us and between our gentes.
Sulla, I hereby make the following proposal to you:
CONCORDIA INTER GENTES CORNELIAM ET APOLLONIAM
Based on these provisions:
I. L. Cornelius Sulla Felix and M. Apollonius Formosanus
agree to work with each other and with other interested
parties to revise current legislation so that both agree
that it no longer contains discriminatory or intrusive
provisions with respect to sexual minorities.
II. L. Cornelius Sulla Felix and M. Apollonius Formosanus
agree that all personal offences between them will be
apologised for mutually and definitively forgiven by each
on the day the above legislative revisions take legal
effect.
III. The Gens Cornelia and Gens Apollonia from the above
date will also collaborate to create practices and
institutions of mutual friendship and co-operation between
their members.
IV. The Gens Cornelia and Gens Apollonia from the above
date will work together to share their respective political
concerns through direct contacts, and will endeavour to
identify mutually acceptable "win-win" solutions to
conflicts between the Patrician and Plebeian orders, and
the Senate and the People, and to further the acceptance of
such solutions by the whole Nova Roman community, so that
the Two Gentes instead of serving to divide the nation will
take the leadership role in uniting it.
_____________________________
That is my proposal to you, Sulla. You know that we
started out well, and if we learn to work together and are
both here in Nova Roma ten years from now, this year and a
half of enmity will only be a small part of our history
together. There is time to build something better beween
ourselves and our gentes than what has been for this little
while. Let's not become too attached to the habits of
attacking each other as our chief pleasures in Nova Roma,
because there are better ones.
This is a point in our personal, gens and national history
where what the two of us do can make a historic difference
for the better. It would be very easy for me to wax
eloquent about how you hid your changed views and
intentions towards your legislation just to score points
against me. But I choose to concentrate on how you came in
the end to see what was right because you really are a
caring human being at heart, it seems. I will give you the
credit for that, despite your treatment of me and my
lasting regret at what Marius had to go through.
If you have any doubts about accepting the CONCORDIA OFFER
as it stands above, please talk to me about it and please
consult with your gentiles before rejecting it. I think
they too have a big stake in seeing peace between our
gentes. Surely we can do better than just have a state of
"non-vendetta", can't we?
Our two gentes have stood out as representatives of the
Patrician/Senatorial viewpoint and of the Plebeian/Popular
viewpoint. If we could remove the obstacles between us that
have hampered communications and consultations, we could
make a big contribution to a general Concordia in Nova
Roma, such as has not been possible for a long time because
of the unbridgeable moral gap between us. That would not be
enough to solve all the political problems here, but it
would be significantly helpful.
I await your reply, and if it takes a day or two to
consult with your gentiles, I shall understand. And I must
say that I would rather be united in amicable relations
with the many fine and likeable Cornelians you have
gathered around you than to have lasting enmity between our
gentes mar our relationships.
The big obstacle has melted away. Let us recognise that
fact and seize peace together. Such a chance may not come
soon again if we do not take advantage of it now. And I
hope that all responsible people in Nova Roma will want to
see his. By your statesmanlike agreement, I ask you to make
it possible.
Vale!
_________________________________________________
Marcus Apollonius Formosanus
Psterfamilias Gentis Apolloniae
Aedilis Plebeius, Amicus Dignitatis
Magister Scholae Latinae
ICQ# 61698049 AIM: MAFormosanus
Minervium Virtuale: http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/Minervium.htm
Gens Apollonia: http://www.crosswinds.net/~bvm3/
The Gens Apollonia is accepting new members.
____________________________________________________
All that is needed for the forces of evil to triumph in the world is for
enough good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke
___________________________________________________
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Indefinite Absence |
| From: |
gcassiusnerva@-------- |
| Date: |
Mon, 27 Aug 2001 23:29:16 -0000 |
|
I will be even more scarce than I am now for an indeterminate
period. I enrolled in the adult program of the Great Books Academy
and so much more of my evenings will be needed for study.
If any here need to reach me, I will be more accessable at my
regular email address, Lykaion1@--------, though I will still be
checking this address about once a week.
Nerva
|
