Subject:	[novaroma] A Personal Pledge to Nova Roma
From:	cassius622@--------
Date:	Sat, 15 Sep 2001 22:20:26 EDT

Salvete Omnes,

The last few days have been a struggle for me. For the first time in four
years macronational issues have been as important to me as the rebuilding of
Rome. The recent tragedy, and threat of war has had a personal impact on me
that has temporarily impacted my involvement here. "What to do next" has been
on my mind for the last couple of days, and as an answer to that I offer this
Personal Pledge to the Citizens of Nova Roma, and to Romanitas itself:

I. I, Marcus Cassius Julianus, pledge not to forget or become complacent
about the recent terrorist tragedy, even as I continue my daily business "as
usual."

II. I, Marcus Cassius Julianus, pledge to do my best to focus on my
macronation as it will help my macronation, and focus on Nova Roma as it will
help Nova Roma.

III. I, Marcus Cassius Julianus, pledge to remember that Nova Roma is our
own bastion of Civilization, Culture and Virtue, and as such is a treasure in
it's own right. Nova Roma is therefore a worthwhile pursuit even in times of
macronational crisis, and working to preserve and advance it is in fact a
benefit for my macronation.

IV. I, Marcus Cassius Julianus, pledge that while I may occasionally be
compelled to bring up macronational topics in the Nova Roma forums, I will
try to do it only when necessary so as to help keep our discussions "on
topic."

V. I, Marcus Cassius Julianus, also pledge that I will continue, from here
on, to do my best to keep Nova Roma business going at a normal level so long
as I am not called away by macronational responsibilities.

VI. I, Marcus Cassius Julianus, pledge that I will do my best to act civilly
and honorably in this time of personal concern and passion. I understand that
in such a time differing opinions can be more problematic than ever, and I
will try to respond *privately* to anyone I feel a need to debate with - most
especially over macronational issues.

V. I, Marcus Cassius Julianus pledge not to forget that Rome has left us a
rich legacy for helping individuals like myself deal with tragedy and Crisis.
I will not forget the Gods, nor will I forget the Virtues, nor will I forget
the benefits of Classical Philosophy. I will use these important tools to
enrich my actions, even as I recognize that others may perceive them
differently.

VII. In short, I pledge to do my utmost for my Macronation without allowing
it to halt and wither Nova Roma, and pledge to do my utmost for Nova Roma
without losing my focus to macronational responsibilities.

Valete,


Marcus Cassius Julianus
Consul, Pontifex Maximus




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[novaroma] Pledge addendum
From:	cassius622@--------
Date:	Sat, 15 Sep 2001 22:29:32 EDT

Salve,

Good grief.

I, Marcus Cassius Julianus, pledge to check my Roman Numerals the next time I
make a public post. I fear all I've done is make a showing that I don't know
how to count to eight! :P

I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII !!!

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] A Personal Pledge to Nova Roma
From:	"Lucius Mauricius Procopious" <procopious@-------->
Date:	Sat, 15 Sep 2001 19:39:54 -0700

Salvete Omnes,

Thanks to Marcus Cassius Julianus for making me think of ways I can use my
involvement in NR to feel like I'm making the world a better place. I hope I
can say I have made friends from all around the globe here in Mova Roma. As
we learn more about Roma Antiqua and each other we can find common ground
and create a community. I have chosen to extend this idea by searching for a
pen pal from the middle east. To make a friend. To build a sense of
community. To create peace and understanding.
This is not to say that I oppose literally combating terrorism. I asked,
Sabina won't let me re-enlist. But while others fight the good fight I feel
we should all find ways to prepare for peace. Maybe too old to fight, but
not too old to be an ambassador.

Lucius Mauricius Procopious
Propraetor America Boreoccidentalis
(This is an unofficial post for which I assume full responsibility)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
procopious@--------
ICQ# 83516618
*America Boreoccidentalis Mail List
http://www.egroups.com/group/AmBor_Waves
* The Gens Mauricia
http://www.geocities.com/procopious

"Indeed, it is not by the plans of men, but by the hand of God that the
affairs of men are directed; and this men call Fate, not knowing the reason
for what things they see occur; and what seems to be without cause is easy
to call the accident of chance. Still, this is a matter every mortal will
decide for himself according to his taste."
-Procopius of Caesarea (in Palestine) [born c.490/507- died c.560s]
----- Original Message -----
From: <cassius622@-------->
To: <novaroma@-------->
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2001 7:20 PM
Subject: [novaroma] A Personal Pledge to Nova Roma


> Salvete Omnes,
>
> The last few days have been a struggle for me. For the first time in four
> years macronational issues have been as important to me as the rebuilding
of
> Rome. The recent tragedy, and threat of war has had a personal impact on
me
> that has temporarily impacted my involvement here. "What to do next" has
been
> on my mind for the last couple of days, and as an answer to that I offer
this
> Personal Pledge to the Citizens of Nova Roma, and to Romanitas itself:
>

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: OT A world called to action....
From:	"Milly Jansen" <millys2@-------->
Date:	Sun, 16 Sep 2001 10:34:38 +0200

Salvete!

I must say that I'm really glad to know that there are many people in this
World and NR who are willing to use their brains and try to think clearly
and still try to behave rational.

I guess it's more roman to take actions that will be effective...to be
restraint and wise even though it would take months or years. And not simply
cry for more blood and to teach "them" a lesson. The latter shows clearly
that those people don't see that this "problem" is very complicated and
can't be solved by dropping some bombs or exterminating the Taliban...('
cause I'm sure another group will rise somewhere else, remember p.e. the FIS
and GIA in Algeria with more hatred and more frustrated muslims who are
willing to follow!)

I also would like to add some additional info on this analysis of Fortunatus
on the middle east. Mind that the US government was involved in the war in
Afghanistan for a long time (80/90-ies) P.e. the CIA recruited muslims from
the North african countries and supplied weapons to the
muslim-fundamentalists to fight that "communist Evil" the Soviet-Union!

I pray to the Gods that they may grant the leaders of this world and all
it's citizens the wisdom to overcome this awful tragedy and keep us from
more disasters.

Agrippina Iulia Germanica


>From: Fortunatus <labienus@-------->
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: novaroma@--------
>Subject: Re: [novaroma] Re: OT A world called to action....
>Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 16:44:41 -0500
>
>Salve Mari Corneli et salvete omnes
>
>First, this is utterly OT. Anyone who is tired of this thread, please
>feel free to stop reading right here.
>
>Second, I only want to comment on one portion of this post. My
>statements are only to that specific portion and should not be taken as
>an indicator of any stance on my part, whether as a hawk or a dove or
>something else, in the greater matter of terrorism and how it should be
>handled.
>
> > You forget conveniently that the U.S. has tried very gingerly over
> > the past decade to improve it's relations with all the Middle Eastern
> > nations. Witness the recent rapproachment with Iran and other
> > nations, and the fact that although we could have certainly engaged
> > in a campaign of annihilation against Iraq, we have not done so. We
> > have backed Yasser Arafat in his efforts to deal with Israel - and
> > what was the payback? Palestinians dancing in the streets, ecstatic
> > that thousands of Americans had been hurt or killed.
>
>
>The US policy toward the Middle East has been a systematic program of
>attempting to maintain relative peace while thwarting any one country's
>ability to gain a dominant position in the region. To that end, the US
>bolstered Iraq prior to and during the Iran-Iraq war of the '80s.
>Desert Storm was fought in large part because Iraq was threatening to be
>able to establish itself as the pre-eminent power. However, it was
>important not to destroy Iraq too much in order to maintain a balance
>against Iran. Once Iraq began to prove that it was successfully
>rebuilding its military infrastructure despite embargoes and no-fly
>zones, the US began courting a rapprochement with Iran.
>
>As for Yasser Arafat and Israel, the US has almost always been far more
>supportive of the Israeli side of things. During the Cold War, Israel
>was of great use to the US, providing intelligence and other help in the
>region. Afterward, the Palestinian problem began to be resigned to a
>back burner as the geopolitical center of gravity moved northward to
>Turkey, the Balkans, and the Caspian Sea. Only once that happened, did
>US policy really turn to an attempt to establish a lasting peace between
>the two peoples. The Palestinians who were dancing--and these were not
>all Palestinians--were doing so because of decades of US intervention on
>the behalf of the Israelis (as well as a history of being backed by, and
>therefore sympathetic to, anti-US forces in Iran and other predominately
>Islamic states).
>
>Geopolitics is almost never determined by good intentions. Rather, it
>is dominated by national self-interest. The US is not immune to this
>principle, and is no exception to it. And, peoples do not tend to
>forget and forgive past injuries, especially when they have not had a
>lengthy peace in which to allow the wounds to heal.
>
>Vale
>T Labienus Fortunatus
>--
>There is something to be learned from a rainstorm. When meeting with a
>sudden shower, you try not to get wet and run along the road. By doing
>such things as passing under the eaves of houses, you still get wet.
>When you are resolved from the beginning, you will not be perplexed
>though you get the same soaking. This understanding extends to all things.
> -Hagakure
>


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Subject:	[novaroma] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Clarification=20from=20Tiberius=20Annaeus=20Otho?=
From:	tiberius.ann@--------
Date:	Sun, 16 Sep 2001 13:23:20 +0200

Salvete omnes quirites Novae Romae,

Many of you have not yet heard one thing from me, that might make sense
to your very hurt american, or other, hearts.

It might help you understand the things I have written, if you know something
more about me.

I am 24 years old and live in Switzerland. That might lead some of you to
the conclusion that I should not get involved. However, from 1989 to 1992
I lived in the arabian gulf region and lived through the gulfwar. At that
time, I was 12-15 years old and the arbic culture and the way the people
around me supported the american attacks on Irak deeply touched me.

I have many arabic friends and some of them are involved in the attack on
WTC. 8 people have not yet contacted me. They were part of a 12 man crew
who worked at the WTC when the planes it and the towers collapsed. Until
now I have only heard from 4 of them and what they wrote and told me is
not very pleasant.

Also, the leader of the crew, who happened to be the first out of the tower,
is not feeling very good right now, because he feels that it would have
been his responsibility to get the others out, even it this would have meant
that he would be dead now.

I wrote things that many Nova Romans did not take in well. I meant no personal
offense against any person or against Nova Roma or the US, but I stand behind
everything I wrote and I will repeat every statement, if I feel it necessary.

I thak all those who answer to this mail, or to my previous mails, in order
to make me feel better or worse, and hope that those who took offense will
try to see my statements in context.

However, I strongly believe, that we have to keep Nova Roma and the current
situation in USA apart. Please don't make the mistake of blurring your vision
and mixing things. Nova Roma cannot do more than try to give kind word to
people who lost friends, like me. Nova Roma does not have any power in the
macronational world and therfore I belive very strongly, that it is wrong
to see events as an attack against Nova Roma.

Valete omnes, Tiberius Annaeus Otho



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Subject:	[novaroma] Response to questions about the pledge I made...
From:	cassius622@--------
Date:	Sun, 16 Sep 2001 08:29:04 EDT

Salvete,

On the Virtue Sodalitas list some questions were asked about the (er, ill
numbered) public pledge I posted last night. I'm forwarding two of the
questions and my answers to this list since I feel they help clarify some
ideas within it:

In a message dated 9/16/01 4:48:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
antoniuscorvusseptimius@-------- writes:

> III. I, Marcus Cassius Julianus, pledge to remember
> that Nova Roma
> is our own bastion of Civilization, Culture and
> Virtue, and as such
> is a treasure in it's own right. Nova Roma is
> therefore a worthwhile
> pursuit even in times of macronational crisis, and
> working to
> preserve and advance it is in fact a benefit for my
> macronation.

ACS: Would you mind expanding on this, please?


Cassius:
Sure. I spent the first three days of this last week in utter shock. Not only
had my macronation been attacked, but the event was so large that I had to
question the meaning of Nova Roma itself. Is Nova Roma really *important*,
when people not far from you have been horribly murdered en-masse, and it is
likely that your nation will go to war? Or is Nova Roma just a frivolous
"peace time" pursuit, a purely historical/philosophical interest to while
away the hours when there's nothing better to do? For the first time ever
I've had to decide this as an issue.

Although others might disagree, I've made a firm decision that Nova Roma IS
important. The various Roman legacies of Religion, Culture, Virtue, Politics,
Philosophy, and well, Historical Example are more than just important.
They're vital.

Through Rome we have a Religion that may be practiced along with any faith.
We have a Culture that may bring together people from ANY country, and allow
them to share the very foundations of Civilized Society.

Through the Roman Virtues, (even though they may be perceived differently by
different people) we have a way to measure our personal honor and noble
action, and to strive to do better.

Through Roman Politics we have a way for people from many
nations/creeds/points of view to work together in an orderly fashion, no
matter what else divides them.

Through Roman Philosophy we have a way to better understand ourselves, better
understand others, and a way to cope with situations that are difficult.

And finally, while technology has changed over the centuries, the basic
motivations of people have not. The Historical Legacy of Rome gives us a huge
insight as to where we've been before, and a knowledge of this history helps
us to temper our todays and tomorrows. If we help everyone to remember
history perhaps we all won't be doomed to keep repeating it.



>
> VIII. In short, I pledge to do my utmost for my
> Macronation without
> allowing it to halt and wither Nova Roma, and pledge
> to do my utmost
> for Nova Roma without losing my focus to
> macronational
> responsibilities.

ACS: Pardon my asking, but do your macronational
responsibilities include your observance of our
culture.. Or is it only within the confinds of the
internet? I do not know youpersonally... So, my
question is without intent of malice.



Cassius:
Since Nova Roma's founding, Romanitas has been a part of my daily, personal
life and far more than just an "internet" involvement. I worship the Gods, I
try to practice the Virtues, and I work with Stoic and Neo Platonic
philosophy. I try to be active in my Provincia, to meet other Romans face to
face when possible, and to introduce more people to Nova Roma when I can. My
home is full of Roman art clothing and gear, our house is filled with Roman
books, and Patricia Cassia and I even eat Roman food on occasion. Why, I even
take a pathetic stab at learning Latin now and again!

Nova Roma "lives" in my daily life as much as possible. Nova Roma exists
through and among ALL our homes and lives. The Internet is merely a tool - a
means to an end and not an end in itself. The Internet provides a quick,
effective and inexpensive way for us to communicate. Our Website is a public
declaration of our organization and intent, not Nova Roma itself. WE are Nova
Roma both online and offline.

This huge crisis merely forced me to re-examine my Roman involvement. Having
done so, I find it IS an honorable and worthwhile thing to maintain in daily
life, and away from the Internet. Being a good "Roman" to me involves being a
good and productive Citizen - a Ctizen that is enriched by the Virtues and
Philosophies that have been critical to Civilization, and who has a
historical perspective on live rather than a short-term one. To this I will
add my personal reverence for the Gods and dedication to the Religio, which I
find important to me even as I recognize that not al of us are called in this
way. Such personal foundations valuable things in all situations, and are
worth my effort.

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: OT A world called to action....
From:	lsicinius@--------
Date:	Sun, 16 Sep 2001 12:50:11 -0000

--- In novaroma@--------, "Mill--------nsen" <mill--------h...> wrote:
> Salvete!
>
> I must say that I'm really glad to know that there are many people
in this
> World and NR who are willing to use their brains and try to think
clearly
> and still try to behave rational.
>
> I guess it's more roman to take actions that will be effective...to be
> restraint and wise even though it would take months or years. And
not simply
> cry for more blood and to teach "them" a lesson. The latter shows
clearly
> that those people don't see that this "problem" is very complicated and
> can't be solved by dropping some bombs or exterminating the
Taliban...('
> cause I'm sure another group will rise somewhere else, remember p.e.
the FIS
> and GIA in Algeria with more hatred and more frustrated muslims who are
> willing to follow!)
>
> I also would like to add some additional info on this analysis of
Fortunatus
> on the middle east. Mind that the US government was involved in the
war in
> Afghanistan for a long time (80/90-ies) P.e. the CIA recruited
muslims from
> the North african countries and supplied weapons to the
> muslim-fundamentalists to fight that "communist Evil" the Soviet-Union!
>
> I pray to the Gods that they may grant the leaders of this world and
all
> it's citizens the wisdom to overcome this awful tragedy and keep us
from
> more disasters.
>
> Agrippina Iulia Germanica
>
>
Salvete,

Right now there is a lot of confusion over the US role in the Afghan
war for independance and the Civil war that followed the defeat of the
Soviet Union.

Afghanistan is a diverse country with several Ethnic groups. The
Muhajeden showed this diversity. It was NEVER a single group, rather
it was a very loose coalation of groups that were fighting a common
foe. Fundementalists were only a part of the coalation. The US
provided aid to most of the groups in the coalation.

When The USSR withdrew from Afghanistan, the Muhajeden turned on each
other. Afghanistan became a fragmented country with no true central
government, and Warlords ruling it's sections. The Taliban was formed
in the southern part of Afghanistan during the Civil War. Most of it's
leaders are too young to have taken part in the War for independance.
Mullah Omar it's "spritual leader" is a rare exception. The USA NEVER
provided any aid to the Taliban. It didn't exist at the time we were
aiding Afghanistan.

Omar and Bin Ladden were close associates during the fight against the
USSR. Bin Ladden provided finical aid to the Taliban during the Civil
war. Pakistan also aided them. The Taliban currently controls about
90% of the country, and their millitant version of Islam, and their
suppression of other cultural hiertages have caused them to lose a lot
of support in the areas that they do control. The Northern Alliance
controls the remainder of the country and continues to battle the Taliban.

The day before the USA was attacked Taliban Terrorists posing as
journalists used a truck bomb to assinate the leader of the Northern
Alliance. The Taliban expected a US response to the upcomming attack
and wanted to weaken it's opponents prior to the attack on the US.

The links between the Taliban and the Bin Ladden gangs are far deeper
than the Taliban mearly providing a haven for Bin Laden. The Taliban
is the strongest Terrorist cell in the Bin Ladden organization. There
is NO clear boundry between the Taliban and the other Bin Ladden
Terrorist groups.

Valete,
L. Sicinius Drusus

Subject:	RE: [novaroma] Re: OT A world called to action....
From:	"C. Minucius Hadrianus" <shinjikun@-------->
Date:	Sun, 16 Sep 2001 12:21:11 -0400

Salvete,

I think many people here on this list, and throughout the world at large are
making some very dangerous assumptions regarding our enemies and the nature
of the threat they represent. I have heard and read quite a bit about
"reconciliation", "rational responses" and the fact that "more violence will
not solve anything.". While these are purely natural attitudes to see from a
society that is based on liberal, democratic ideals and are normally very
commendable, I am very afraid that they are going to be sorely inappropriate
for dealing with the threat of radical and militant Islamic fundamentalism.
We are facing a threat of a kind not seen in the West in hundreds of years -
an enemy who attacks us, not for treasure, not for land, not for economic
pressures, but because of who and what we are. The same liberal, democratic
ideals that make many of us reluctant to wage war against our enemies are
utterly and irreconcilably ant ethical to the beliefs of Islamic
Fundamentalism. (I want to be very clear here on one point - I am NOT
referring to 90% of the Islamic world, but only it's most conservative and
militant elements). Our very culture represents a grave threat to these
fundamentalists very beliefs and way of life. We have seen over the past
fifty years, that for whatever reasons, the culture of West has been
spreading inexorably throughout the world. We mistakenly believed that the
rest of the world must be happy and grateful for our "gifts" of democracy,
technology, and ideals of social justice and equality. Well, we were wrong -
horribly wrong. There are cultures throughout the world, that do not embrace
democracy, religious freedom, equality of women, racial harmony, freedom of
expression, or any thing else that we have come to see as essential elements
of a "civilized society". They see Western Civilization as a cancer, that
infects and inevitably destroys the culture and beliefs that they hold dear.
Why do nations such as Iran ban satilite television? To slow the spread on
dangerous western ideas. The Taliban of Afghanistan have banned ALL
television and radio. In Algeria, young couples engaging in the very western
act of "dating" are attacked and killed by fundamentalist militias. Osama
Ben Ladin's reason for his hatred of the United States is simply because
U.S. troops, at the behest of the Saudi Government, set foot on and
desecrated by their mere presence, what he (and a LOT of other people)
regard as their holy soil. We are dealing with a wide spread, dedicated and
utterly implacable enemy, who hates us not for what we do, but simply for
who we are. Our very existence is an affront to the militant fundamentalist
ideal, and they believe their war to destroy us is holy and just. In their
eyes we are waging a cultural war against them, a war of ideas that they are
slowly loosing. They have become threatened and desperate. They will never
give up, never surrender, never seek peace of reconciliation, and as the
pressures of globalization make there attempts at cultural isolation futile,
their numbers will grow. The nature of our enemies denies us the option of
negotiated peace. This is not a war any of us wants to fight, but it is a
war we must fight, to it's sad, bitter and inevitable conclusion.

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus


-----Original Message-----
From: Milly Jansen [mailto:millys2@--------]
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 4:35 AM
To: novaroma@--------
Subject: Re: [novaroma] Re: OT A world called to action....


Salvete!

I must say that I'm really glad to know that there are many people in this
World and NR who are willing to use their brains and try to think clearly
and still try to behave rational.

I guess it's more roman to take actions that will be effective...to be
restraint and wise even though it would take months or years. And not
simply
cry for more blood and to teach "them" a lesson. The latter shows clearly
that those people don't see that this "problem" is very complicated and
can't be solved by dropping some bombs or exterminating the Taliban...('
cause I'm sure another group will rise somewhere else, remember p.e. the
FIS
and GIA in Algeria with more hatred and more frustrated muslims who are
willing to follow!)

I also would like to add some additional info on this analysis of
Fortunatus
on the middle east. Mind that the US government was involved in the war in
Afghanistan for a long time (80/90-ies) P.e. the CIA recruited muslims
from
the North african countries and supplied weapons to the
muslim-fundamentalists to fight that "communist Evil" the Soviet-Union!

I pray to the Gods that they may grant the leaders of this world and all
it's citizens the wisdom to overcome this awful tragedy and keep us from
more disasters.

Agrippina Iulia Germanica


>From: Fortunatus <labienus@-------->
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: novaroma@--------
>Subject: Re: [novaroma] Re: OT A world called to action....
>Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 16:44:41 -0500
>
>Salve Mari Corneli et salvete omnes
>
>First, this is utterly OT. Anyone who is tired of this thread, please
>feel free to stop reading right here.
>
>Second, I only want to comment on one portion of this post. My
>statements are only to that specific portion and should not be taken as
>an indicator of any stance on my part, whether as a hawk or a dove or
>something else, in the greater matter of terrorism and how it should be
>handled.
>
> > You forget conveniently that the U.S. has tried very gingerly over
> > the past decade to improve it's relations with all the Middle Eastern
> > nations. Witness the recent rapproachment with Iran and other
> > nations, and the fact that although we could have certainly engaged
> > in a campaign of annihilation against Iraq, we have not done so. We
> > have backed Yasser Arafat in his efforts to deal with Israel - and
> > what was the payback? Palestinians dancing in the streets, ecstatic
> > that thousands of Americans had been hurt or killed.
>
>
>The US policy toward the Middle East has been a systematic program of
>attempting to maintain relative peace while thwarting any one country's
>ability to gain a dominant position in the region. To that end, the US
>bolstered Iraq prior to and during the Iran-Iraq war of the '80s.
>Desert Storm was fought in large part because Iraq was threatening to be
>able to establish itself as the pre-eminent power. However, it was
>important not to destroy Iraq too much in order to maintain a balance
>against Iran. Once Iraq began to prove that it was successfully
>rebuilding its military infrastructure despite embargoes and no-fly
>zones, the US began courting a rapprochement with Iran.
>
>As for Yasser Arafat and Israel, the US has almost always been far more
>supportive of the Israeli side of things. During the Cold War, Israel
>was of great use to the US, providing intelligence and other help in the
>region. Afterward, the Palestinian problem began to be resigned to a
>back burner as the geopolitical center of gravity moved northward to
>Turkey, the Balkans, and the Caspian Sea. Only once that happened, did
>US policy really turn to an attempt to establish a lasting peace between
>the two peoples. The Palestinians who were dancing--and these were not
>all Palestinians--were doing so because of decades of US intervention on
>the behalf of the Israelis (as well as a history of being backed by, and
>therefore sympathetic to, anti-US forces in Iran and other predominately
>Islamic states).
>
>Geopolitics is almost never determined by good intentions. Rather, it
>is dominated by national self-interest. The US is not immune to this
>principle, and is no exception to it. And, peoples do not tend to
>forget and forgive past injuries, especially when they have not had a
>lengthy peace in which to allow the wounds to heal.
>
>Vale
>T Labienus Fortunatus
>--
>There is something to be learned from a rainstorm. When meeting with a
>sudden shower, you try not to get wet and run along the road. By doing
>such things as passing under the eaves of houses, you still get wet.
>When you are resolved from the beginning, you will not be perplexed
>though you get the same soaking. This understanding extends to all
things.
> -Hagakure
>


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