| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: A saddened American |
| From: |
"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 23 Sep 2001 00:19:29 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, "Bjarne Sinkjaer" <bjsink@--------> wrote:
>
> Some have said, that this was not a attack on United Sate, but an
> attack on the western civilization. But some have also said, that the
> terrorist's action is a result of American politics ? a result of
> American economic, cultural and military expansionism ? and that this
> terrorist action should be taken as a warning, that Unites States
> should change their behavior. It is *not* the same as that there
> where any justification for a attack like this, or the Americans, by
> any means, got that they deserved. I tend to agree to both statements.
>
Salve,
I'm afraid that you are mistaken about the intents of the Radicals
(They do NOT deserve the honorable title of Muslam). Think about their
primary target. The WORLD Trade Center. Among the missing and presumed
dead are hundreds of citizens from 67 nations, and the death toll
would have been much higher if the buildings hadn't held up as long as
they did. In all of New York only the UN building is more
international than the WORLD trade center was, and there are few
places anywhere on earth that are as international as the radicals
primary target was.
Also I would like to include a letter I wrote earlier today. I sent
this to President Bush, to Congressman Bob Barr, to US Senator Zell
Miller, and have posted it in various places on the web.
Mr President,
Why did the Terrorists attack the WTC? Not just the attack on Sept 11th,
but also the attempt to destroy it by a truck bomb 8 years ago.
The WORLD Trade Center. To the Radicals the WTC was the center of a
cultural war being waged against their perverted version of Islam. It was
the place that sent those "evil" western products that lure the "pure"
into
accepting western ideas.
They look at western ideas the same way most Americans look at drugs. As a
curse that is destroying the moral fabric of society. The WTC and Holywood
are looked on like we look at the drug cartels, as criminal gangs that are
making money by selling an "evil" product.
The ideas that we consider essential to a civilizied society, freedom of
Religion, Freedom of Speech, the Equality of Women, are considered
depraved
by the Radicals.
Modern Communication is making it impossible for them to shelter their
people from our "evil" ideals. Movies, TV, Radio, Telephones, Fax
Machines,
and the internet are "drug pushers" peddling the "drugs" of western ideas
to their youth.
The USA and other Western nations have performed actions that these people
hate, but our actions are not the main cause of their hatred of us. The
ideals of the west are hated far more than any actions we have taken.
Take the Gulf War for example. Does Bin Laden hate us for helping to dive
Iraq out? NO. At the time his plan was to drive the Iraqis out of Kuwait
with Islamic forces. His goal was the same as ours. He hates us for
desacrating the Holy soil of Arabia by setting our evil feet on it.
We are Infidels. Our ideals are poison. Our Religions are blasphemy. Our
very existance is an affront to Allah. Their view of us is the same as the
Nazis view of the Jews, an utterly depraved group that is engaged in a
monsterous plot against them.
John B Dobbins
This was mainly written from an American Viewpoint, but I can assure
you that they view European ideas as being as depraved as Americas, if
not more so.
L. Sicinius Drusus
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] European Reaction |
| From: |
"Bjarne Sinkjaer" <bjsink@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Sep 2001 20:30:35 -0000 |
|
Ave C. Minucius Hadrianus
Before I to answer your question, I feel I must state two things. In
my answer I will come forth with some harsh judgment of United States
foreign politics. Please understand, that I speak out against the
actions made by America, not the American people. You can do nothing
about who you are, but you *can* change your politics. Second, please
consider my answer as a personal one; I do not speak by behalf of all
Danes, nor all Europeans.
The first reactions in Denmark were, and still are, shock, disbelief
and sympathy for those involved, and for the American people. Beside
a very small group of confused youngsters of Arabian heritage, no one
here has reacted as you described. Contrary, there where an
improvised demonstration held by young political groups, ranging from
the far Left to the Right, who spoke out against terrorism. Flowers
and candles were laid down at the American embassy. Thousands have
made condolences on the Internet. The whole country held to minutes
of silence last Friday 12. O'clock.
Some have said, that this was not a attack on United Sate, but an
attack on the western civilization. But some have also said, that the
terrorist's action was a result of American politics – a result of
American economic, cultural and military expansionism – and that this
terrorist action should be taken as a warning that Unites States
should change its behavior. It is *not* the same as that where any
justification for an attack like this, or the Americans, by any
means, "got that they deserved". I tend to agree to both statements.
The foreign politics of the United States has caused deep concern in
the last couple of years. There has been a trend in American foreign
politics of self-interest, isolationism, and disregard of
International organizations and agreements – anything that might not
be in the interest of the United States. This politics has culminated
under the current administration, but has been underway for some time
now – and is been seen on with skeptics here in Europe.
United State has blocked international agreements on mines, small
arms, global warming, war crime tribunal, to name those I can
remember. The Israeli and American emigration from the racism
congress in South Africa is just the latest example. The United
States has refused to pay what it owns UN, but have nevertheless
tried several time to force it's own terms on several organization
inside the UN, regardless of that other member states might think of
it. In Denmark, a country who placed great interest and money in UN,
this has caused great irritation. The stated intention of one-sided
canceling of the ABM agreement by the United States, has given rise
to speculations if anyone can longer make agreements with the United
States, or if the United States will only uphold the agreements so
long it is in America's own interest – putting the international
agreement system at risk.
President Bush has stated in his speak yesterday, "that either you
are with us, or you are against us." Taken literary, that means that
either do I totally agree in every thing Unity State might do in the
current, however rush and unwise they might be, on the terms America
sets, or I am in league with terrorist. While this speak was made in
a time of great pain, I fear it nevertheless says something on how
United States look on the rest of the world.
Lay to this the one-sided grouping with Israel in the Israel-
Palestinian conflict, and the placement of American troops in Saudi
Arabia, a government many Muslims sees as corrupt – and you can see
why some think that this terrorist action is a consequence of the
politics of United States.
Now. In the late 19. Century there was some very serious social
unrest here in Denmark. The democracy was new and untried, and people
could not wholly agree on its terms. In 1872 Left won the majority in
the parliament, but a rightwing politician, Estrup, where appointed
by the king to gather a government. That sparked a political battle.
Some Left politicians were send to jail, the Blue Gendarmes roamed
the countryside, and the hate of the people was growing. Riffle
associatings were gathering. In the end nothing would come from this,
because nobody would take the responsibility of a revolution. Instead
a national compromise was made in 1892, who basically said, "We make
sure you don't starve, and You don't make revolution."
Today globalism has made the spasm between the rich and the poor
wider. And the poor are painfully aware of this, because they see us
every day in the television. America is going to make war against
terrorism – and you think you can win with all your high-tech
weaponry. I do not think so - but even if you do, even if you
exterminate the current generation of international terrorist, you
don't remove the underlying cause for international terrorism. And in
five or ten years there will be a new generation of desperate people,
who have nothing to lose by fighting us by any means they have. And
perhaps, next time they might have an atomic bomb, or a deadly virus.
We can never wholly protect our self from this – we can only remove
the reason why fanatics never find it difficult to recruit men to
their cause. And that crave that we all, in America as in Europe -
work together.
Please excuse me my limited English, but it is not my native language.
Respectfully
A. Cornelius Sallust
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Nothing new |
| From: |
mark zona <pitdog2002@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Sep 2001 17:42:17 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Salve!
I believe that there was one son that Herod the great
had not gotten around to killing by the time he died,
and I do believe that he did succeed him, but you are
quite right. The Hasmonian dynasty did not last long
after that one and I do stand corrected.
I must apologize for the error. I am relying more on
memory than on books.
Thank you Felix!
respectfully,
Marcus Antonius Zeno
--- Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
<alexious@--------> wrote:
> Ave,
>
> Just a minor correction. By the time the revolts
> occurred 66ce and the
> Bar Kochba revolts. The Hasmonean Dynasty was no
> longer a player. If I
> recall correctly that line died out by the time
> Herod the Great died.
> However, they certainly were not political players
> after Herod's tenure
> of rule.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>
> mark zona wrote:
> >
> > Salve quirites!
> >
> > If I recall my history correctly, Rome and Judah
> were
> > allies during and well afer the selucid wars. When
> the
> > hasmonian dynasty in judah had inner dispute, the
> > Roman armies were invited in to help stabilize the
> > government, and remained at the request of the
> > hasmonian monarchy. All future rebellions by some
> > fringe religious groups (the bar kochba rebellion
> for
> > example) were as much against the Hasmonians
> rulers as
> > they were against the Roman occupation. Because
> the
> > Roman and Judean governments were allies, Judaism
> was
> > always treated as an acceptable religion within
> the
> > Roman Empire, and the number of Jews living
> outside of
> > Judea greatly outnumbered the number living
> within.
> > With regard to the galilean sect of Judaism which
> > would eventually replace the religio Romana as the
> > official religion of Rome, that sect was
> officially
> > considered as a heretical sect of Judaism
> centuries
> > before, and were shunned by main stream Jews.
> > The Romans made a strong distinction between the
> > practitioners of Judaism that were loyal Romans
> (the
> > majority) and the small fringe religious/political
> > zeaolots who rebelled against the Hasmonian rulers
> and
> > the Roman Empire.
> > I would imagine that if our Roman forefathers were
> > with us today, they would make the same
> distinction
> > between the followers of Islam and the radical
> islamic
> > terrorist groups who plague us today.
> > I also imagine, that a modern Roman army would
> come to
> > the aid of its allies and make all out war on
> those
> > terrorist, much like the Roman armies of old came
> to
> > the aid of their ally Judea, and crushed the
> > rebellious zealots who would wrestle power from
> the
> > Hasmonian monarchy.
> > And I don't believe they would think twice about
> it.
> > Salvete Omnes
> > Marcus Antonius Zeno
> >
> > --- Lucius Mauricius Procopious
> <procopious@-------->
> > wrote:
> > > Salvete Omnes,
> > >
> > > I would like to thank Lucius Cornelius Sulla
> Felix
> > > for beginning the thread
> > > of "handling crisis". I have also wondered what
> > > historical comparisons could
> > > be made to current events. In pondering
> historical
> > > comparisons I find myself
> > > drawn to considering the history of the Province
> of
> > > Caesaria (Palestine). It
> > > seems a case could be made that our current
> events
> > > are a continuation of
> > > struggles that have centered on that region for
> > > centuries. What lessons can
> > > we learn by considering the history of that area
> and
> > > events concerning it?
> > > In other words, this is not the first time a
> > > superpower has had to deal with
> > > problems concerning these geographic areas or
> > > concerning fanatical extremist
> > > groups (the term "Zealot" and it's origins
> springs
> > > to mind) and their
> > > attempts to bring down an people.
> > > So, let me ask if others see this kind of
> > > similarity. Rome moved into
> > > Palestine/Israel/Caesaria and had to deal with
> > > fundamentalist extremist
> > > groups that worshipped a foreign religion. That
> > > group was prosecuted for
> > > their political, not religious, beliefs. The
> > > religion of the rebels spread
> > > and became accepted by a more moderate element
> of
> > > society. Eventually, it
> > > became the official religion of the Empire.
> > > How much of a reflection of those past events is
> > > seen in current events? How
> > > possible would a similar outcome be in the
> future?
> > > What lessons can we learn
> > > from our forefathers handling of their similar
> > > situation?
> > > I realize I may have over simplified some very
> > > complex issues. My purpose is
> > > to try to stimulate discussion of history and
> > > specifically Roma. I eagerly
> > > await responses.
> > >
> > > Lucius Mauricius Procopious
> > > Propraetor America Boreoccidentalis
> > > (This is an unofficial post for which I assume
> full
> > > responsibility)
> > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > > procopious@--------
> > > ICQ# 83516618
> > > *America Boreoccidentalis Mail List
> > > http://www.egroups.com/group/AmBor_Waves
> > > * The Gens Mauricia
> > > http://www.geocities.com/procopious
> > >
> > > "What then? if a good man should see his father
> or
> > > his son under the knife,
> > > will he not weep, will he not faint?" But this
> is
> > > the way we see women act
> > > whenever they are upset by the slightest
> suggestion
> > > of danger. The good man
> > > will perform his duties undisturbed and
> unafraid;
> > > and he will in such a way
> > > do all that is worthy of a good man as to do
> nothing
> > > that is unworthy of a
> > > man. My father is being murdered - I will defend
> > > him; he is slain - I will
> > > avenge him, not because I grieve, but because it
> is
> > > my duty" -Seneca
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix"
> > > <alexious@-------->
> > > To: <novaroma@-------->
> > > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 9:38 PM
> > > Subject: [novaroma] Inquiry on the handling of
> > > crises.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Ave,
> > > >
> > > > Since Sept. 11, our list has been focused on
> > > events that will ultimately
> > > > shape our lives in ways we never have thought
> > > possible. In the past two
> > > > weeks I have seen a variety of responses to
> the
> > > attacks the United
> > > > States has faced. However, as Pompeia
> Cornelia
> > > stated in an earlier
> > > > post maybe we should start discussing topics
> that
> > > are related to Roma.
> > > > Well, I have been thinking since this tragedy
> has
> > > befallen the world,
> > > > how would the ancients have dealt with this?
> > > >
> > > > Before this life changing event, we were
> > > discussing Tuteorberg Wald
> > > > (sp.). My inquiry might tie into that, here
> is my
>
=== message truncated ===
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|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] FW: Tie a Purple Ribbon |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Sep 2001 22:30:38 -0400 |
|
For those Americans among us, and friends of America...
-----Original Message-----
From: Major "Doc" Walker [mailto:docturtl@--------]
Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2001 8:19 PM
To: Cheryl and Walt
Cc: Wilma Outersky; Three Feathers; Steve Zwarych; skywatcher; Mark and
Angela Adler; Larry Denny; John DiFederico; Jim Mathews; Flavius Vedius
Germanicus; Donna Somers
Subject: Tie a Purple Ribbon
A movement has been started like that from Desert Storm. During Desert
Storm we tied yellow ribbons anywhere we could. Well, now the movement
is to tie purple ribbons the same way. This is for two reasons.
1. In remembrance of not only the firefighters, police officers,
paramedics who have died, but also for all who have died in this
terrible tragedy.
2. Just as in the military, when a serviceman gets injured, he is given
the Purple Heart. Well, our country has been injured to its core.
Please pass this on to everyone you know, and let's see purple ribbons
everywhere. Along with the flag of the United States of America.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: FW: Tie a Purple Ribbon |
| From: |
trog99@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 23 Sep 2001 02:45:16 -0000 |
|
---Salve Honoured Consul:
I just happen to have some purple ribbon handy. I can't think of a
more noble use for it right now......and I have a tree in my front
yard.
And when my neighbours question me about it, I shall gladly tell them
the rationale.
Thanks for the forward, Sir.
Bene vale,
Pompeia Cornelia
Propraetrix Canada Orientalis
NOVA ROMA
In novaroma@--------, "Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@n...>
wrote:
> For those Americans among us, and friends of America...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Major "Doc" Walker [mailto:docturtl@--------]
> Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2001 8:19 PM
> To: Cheryl and Walt
> Cc: Wilma Outersky; Three Feathers; Steve Zwarych; skywatcher;
Mark and
> Angela Adler; Larry Denny; John DiFederico; Jim Mathews; Flavius
Vedius
> Germanicus; Donna Somers
> Subject: Tie a Purple Ribbon
>
>
> A movement has been started like that from Desert Storm. During
Desert
> Storm we tied yellow ribbons anywhere we could. Well, now the
movement
> is to tie purple ribbons the same way. This is for two reasons.
> 1. In remembrance of not only the firefighters, police officers,
> paramedics who have died, but also for all who have died in this
> terrible tragedy.
> 2. Just as in the military, when a serviceman gets injured, he is
given
> the Purple Heart. Well, our country has been injured to its core.
> Please pass this on to everyone you know, and let's see purple
ribbons
> everywhere. Along with the flag of the United States of America.
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] A saddened American |
| From: |
"Teleri ferch Nyfain" <rckovak@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Sep 2001 23:11:40 -0400 |
|
Salve,
I agree totally with this. I firmly believe that we (the world community) need to bring the current batch of terrorists to justice, but we absolutely need to erase the reasons these fanatical leaders find it easy to refill the ranks. Well said.
Vale bene,
Helena Galeria
>>>A. Cornelius Sallust scripsit:
perhaps, next time they might have a atomic bomb, or a deadly virus. We can never
wholly protect our self from this - we can only remove the reason why
fanatics never find it difficult to recruit men to their cause. And
that crave that we all, in America as in Europe - work together to
solve the problems that trouble our age.>>>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] FW: Tie a Purple Ribbon |
| From: |
"Teleri ferch Nyfain" <rckovak@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Sep 2001 23:17:26 -0400 |
|
Salvete,
Purple ribbons are also for religious tolerance, which seems pretty apropo. We just had a Mabon (fall equinox) celebration (an official Pagan Pride event LOL) where we passed out the ribbons for both reasons.
Helena Galeria
Subject: Tie a Purple Ribbon
A movement has been started like that from Desert Storm. During Desert
Storm we tied yellow ribbons anywhere we could. Well, now the movement
is to tie purple ribbons the same way. This is for two reasons.
1. In remembrance of not only the firefighters, police officers,
paramedics who have died, but also for all who have died in this
terrible tragedy.
2. Just as in the military, when a serviceman gets injured, he is given
the Purple Heart. Well, our country has been injured to its core.
Please pass this on to everyone you know, and let's see purple ribbons
everywhere. Along with the flag of the United States of America.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: FW: Tie a Purple Ribbon |
| From: |
trog99@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 23 Sep 2001 03:30:06 -0000 |
|
---
Salve Helena Galeria:
I just saw your picture in the Magistrates Album of the Website.
If you don't mind my saying, you are absolutely beautiful, as well as
intelligent :)
Vale,
Pompeia
In novaroma@--------, "Teleri ferch N--------n" <rckovak@e...> wrote:
> Salvete,
> Purple ribbons are also for religious tolerance, which seems pretty
apropo. We just had a Mabon (fall equinox) celebration (an official
Pagan Pride event LOL) where we passed out the ribbons for both
reasons.
>
> Helena Galeria
> Subject: Tie a Purple Ribbon
>
>
> A movement has been started like that from Desert Storm. During
Desert
> Storm we tied yellow ribbons anywhere we could. Well, now the
movement
> is to tie purple ribbons the same way. This is for two reasons.
> 1. In remembrance of not only the firefighters, police officers,
> paramedics who have died, but also for all who have died in this
> terrible tragedy.
> 2. Just as in the military, when a serviceman gets injured, he
is given
> the Purple Heart. Well, our country has been injured to its
core.
> Please pass this on to everyone you know, and let's see purple
ribbons
> everywhere. Along with the flag of the United States of America.
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] new web page |
| From: |
"Gaius Valerius Tacitus Hibernicus" <legioix@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 23 Sep 2001 04:29:38 -0000 |
|
Legio IX Hispana's new web page is starting to come together...
http://www.legio-ix-hispana.org
Hibernicus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] European Reaction |
| From: |
Maximina Octavia <myownq@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 22 Sep 2001 21:45:35 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Ave Omnes,
This may be more forthright than some of you will
like.
This message is primarily for those who have spent no
time or a mere few years in the United States and
presume to judge America and her motives.
I have read nearly all the messages and I want to give
my heartfelt thanks to those who have sought to
support the U.S. instead of criticize.
I can no longer sit by and tolerate some of these
messages when most Americans are still hurting. You
are adding insult to injury and I wonder how you can
sleep at night.
Some of you have made presumptuous and harsh
statements regarding the United States and some of you
choose to just whine.
Making these kinds of statements when the U.S. and the
world have just suffered this terrible tragedy is
unconscionable. Some of the statments are petty and
very inappropriate.
When Bush said you stand with us or against us, he
meant standing against terrorist attacks on innocent
civilians. Yet, some of you seem to want to read into
this statement something sinister. Maybe you should
examine your own projections and motives.
To others,you know who you are:
Others have said how selfish the United States is and
others proclaim that we neglect our homeland. It is
very sad that you should perceive us this way. Could
it be that you are receiving information from sources
who have their own agenda against the U.S.?
Just like the people that are constantly criticizing
the Nova Roma government and it's officials, everybody
thinks they can do it better.
How much in money and lives have you or your
government offered to feed the starving, offer medical
relief and even offered to help those people and
countries fighting for freedom?
How much money or time has your country or you offered
in the war on drugs?
Most of you have no clue what our country is about so
please knock it off. We do not need your whining and
criticisms. And, what does it say about you that you
take this time of the lowest of emotional lows of the
American people to vent your criticisms?
I am very proud to be a citizen of the United States.
I have been a citizen for over 50 years. NO
government or its people is perfect includings yours.
I have had every opportunity to make a living, get a
good education, work for decent wages, enjoy peace and
security and have the freedom of self expression that
some only dream about.
If this declaration is too saccharin, too patriotic or
too sentimental for you or you just plain disagree.
Too Bad!
Maximina Octavia
|
| Subject: |
Nationalism (was Re: [novaroma] European Reaction) |
| From: |
"Cable" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 23 Sep 2001 12:20:27 +0200 |
|
Salve Maximina,
>
> This may be more forthright than some of you will
> like.
>
> This message is primarily for those who have spent no
> time or a mere few years in the United States and
> presume to judge America and her motives.
>
> I have read nearly all the messages and I want to give
> my heartfelt thanks to those who have sought to
> support the U.S. instead of criticize.
>
How about this... support AND criticism? What's wrong with that?
> I can no longer sit by and tolerate some of these
> messages when most Americans are still hurting. You
> are adding insult to injury and I wonder how you can
> sleep at night.
>
Every day, thousands are starving due to ex-colonial systems, heritages of
the cold war. Every day, thousands are being killed every day in armed
conflicts, with arms supplied by the rich world. Every day, millions of
children work 15 hours a day in sweatshops in terrible conditions to comply
the demands of the capitalist world. Every day, human beings like you and I
are being murdered or broken because of the convictions they hold, while the
western world is well aware of this.
Can you sleep at night?
> Some of you have made presumptuous and harsh
> statements regarding the United States and some of you
> choose to just whine.
>
> Making these kinds of statements when the U.S. and the
> world have just suffered this terrible tragedy is
> unconscionable. Some of the statments are petty and
> very inappropriate.
>
> When Bush said you stand with us or against us, he
> meant standing against terrorist attacks on innocent
> civilians. Yet, some of you seem to want to read into
> this statement something sinister. Maybe you should
> examine your own projections and motives.
>
When Bush was elected, the US was the laughing stock of the rest of the
world. I hope you realize this. And as I have said before, what I think of
your president has nothing to do with the sympathy I feel for the victims of
the tragedy. I'll say it again: human suffering goes above and beyond
everything. But that does not mean that it has to be so black/white as you
portray it. It will only add to the polarization of the world.
> To others,you know who you are:
> Others have said how selfish the United States is and
> others proclaim that we neglect our homeland. It is
> very sad that you should perceive us this way. Could
> it be that you are receiving information from sources
> who have their own agenda against the U.S.?
>
I almost forgot. I am a KGB agent, and I'm part of a Chinese spy network.
> Just like the people that are constantly criticizing
> the Nova Roma government and it's officials, everybody
> thinks they can do it better.
>
And what is criticising the critics?
> How much in money and lives have you or your
> government offered to feed the starving, offer medical
> relief and even offered to help those people and
> countries fighting for freedom?
> How much money or time has your country or you offered
> in the war on drugs?
>
More than enough, thank you very much. I really don't need nationalism here.
> Most of you have no clue what our country is about so
> please knock it off. We do not need your whining and
> criticisms. And, what does it say about you that you
> take this time of the lowest of emotional lows of the
> American people to vent your criticisms?
>
Wrong. My emotional sympathy goes out to all victims, let this be said. But
my intellectual sympathy is a different issue.
> I am very proud to be a citizen of the United States.
> I have been a citizen for over 50 years. NO
> government or its people is perfect includings yours.
>
> I have had every opportunity to make a living, get a
> good education, work for decent wages, enjoy peace and
> security and have the freedom of self expression that
> some only dream about.
> If this declaration is too saccharin, too patriotic or
> too sentimental for you or you just plain disagree.
> Too Bad!
Well, I do disagree. And I think this is off topic, too.
Vale,
S. Apollonius Draco
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Swering of Public Oath |
| From: |
pjetur@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 23 Sep 2001 11:02:37 -0000 |
|
I, Publius Candiadianus Botius (Pedro Bote) do hereby solemnly swear
to uphold the honour of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best
interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.
As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Publius Candiadianus Botius( Pedro
Bote ) swear to honour the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public
dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private
life.
I, Publius Candiadianus Botius( Pedro Bote ) swear to uphold and
defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and
swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the
State Religion.
I, Publius Candiadianus Botius( Pedro Bote ) swear to protect and
defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.
I, Publius Candiadianus Botius( Pedro Bote ) further swear to fulfill
the obligations and responsibilities of the office of Prolegatus
Regionis Islandicae to the best of my abilities.
On my honour as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the
Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favour,
do I accept the position of_Prolegatus Regionis Islandicae and all
the rights, privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant
thereto.
Publius Candidianus Botius ( Pedro Bote)
|
| Subject: |
=?iso-8859-1?Q?RE=3A=20=5Bnovaroma=5D=20Re=3A=20FW=3A=20Tie=20a=20Purple=20Ribbon?= |
| From: |
tiberius.ann@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 23 Sep 2001 13:17:08 +0200 |
|
Salvete,
Thanks for the good tip. I am still missing 2 friends and I shall be putting
the ribbons about anywhere I can. Wear them to school and so forth. This
is the least I can do for my friends and all the other innocent people who
have had to leave us so much too early. May the symbol, and its use in Switzerland
and Europe and all over the World, give all those who have lost friends,
like me, new strength.
For all those who still try to ignore me because of what I wrote during
the last 2 weeks. I am very happy by the way things are moving at the moment.
I am not changing my views, but I am happy that America has chosen the way
of first looking for proof and then taking action.
Many greetings from Switzerland, Tiberius Annaeus Otho
>> A movement has been started like that from Desert Storm. During
>Desert
>> Storm we tied yellow ribbons anywhere we could. Well, now the
>movement
>> is to tie purple ribbons the same way. This is for two reasons.
>> 1. In remembrance of not only the firefighters, police officers,
>> paramedics who have died, but also for all who have died in this
>> terrible tragedy.
>> 2. Just as in the military, when a serviceman gets injured, he is
>given
>> the Purple Heart. Well, our country has been injured to its core.
>> Please pass this on to everyone you know, and let's see purple
>ribbons
>> everywhere. Along with the flag of the United States of America.
________________________________________
E-Mail for everyone! http://www.bluemail.ch/ powered by Bluewin!
|
| Subject: |
=?iso-8859-1?Q?Re=3A=20=5Bnovaroma=5D=20European=20Reaction?= |
| From: |
tiberius.ann@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 23 Sep 2001 13:23:28 +0200 |
|
Salve Maximina Octavia,
I have also written something on this topic and I want to appologize if
you have understood my message in the way you descibe below. I for my part
do not have any harsh feelings against the US, even if it could be believed
from what I ahve written. I know many people in the US, spent (only) a few
years in an american school and learned to love the freedom in the US. Switzerland
is also a free country, but there are many ways of freedom in the US which
don't exist in Switzerland.
I want to thank you for your message below and assure you that at least
for me it is not too US patriotic. I myself love patriotism very much, as
long as it does not move into racism, which does clearly NOT do in your
message.
Cura ut valeas, Tiberius Annaeus Otho
-- Original-Nachricht --
>
>Ave Omnes,
>
>This may be more forthright than some of you will
>like.
>
>This message is primarily for those who have spent no
>time or a mere few years in the United States and
>presume to judge America and her motives.
>
>I have read nearly all the messages and I want to give
>my heartfelt thanks to those who have sought to
>support the U.S. instead of criticize.
>
>I can no longer sit by and tolerate some of these
>messages when most Americans are still hurting. You
>are adding insult to injury and I wonder how you can
>sleep at night.
>
>Some of you have made presumptuous and harsh
>statements regarding the United States and some of you
>choose to just whine.
>
>Making these kinds of statements when the U.S. and the
>world have just suffered this terrible tragedy is
>unconscionable. Some of the statments are petty and
>very inappropriate.
>
>When Bush said you stand with us or against us, he
>meant standing against terrorist attacks on innocent
>civilians. Yet, some of you seem to want to read into
>this statement something sinister. Maybe you should
>examine your own projections and motives.
>
>To others,you know who you are:
>Others have said how selfish the United States is and
>others proclaim that we neglect our homeland. It is
>very sad that you should perceive us this way. Could
>it be that you are receiving information from sources
>who have their own agenda against the U.S.?
>
>Just like the people that are constantly criticizing
>the Nova Roma government and it's officials, everybody
>thinks they can do it better.
>
>How much in money and lives have you or your
>government offered to feed the starving, offer medical
>relief and even offered to help those people and
>countries fighting for freedom?
>How much money or time has your country or you offered
>in the war on drugs?
>
>Most of you have no clue what our country is about so
>please knock it off. We do not need your whining and
>criticisms. And, what does it say about you that you
>take this time of the lowest of emotional lows of the
>American people to vent your criticisms?
>
>I am very proud to be a citizen of the United States.
>I have been a citizen for over 50 years. NO
>government or its people is perfect includings yours.
>
>I have had every opportunity to make a living, get a
>good education, work for decent wages, enjoy peace and
>security and have the freedom of self expression that
>some only dream about.
>If this declaration is too saccharin, too patriotic or
>too sentimental for you or you just plain disagree.
> Too Bad!
>
>Maximina Octavia
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
________________________________________
E-Mail for everyone! http://www.bluemail.ch/ powered by Bluewin!
|
| Subject: |
Nationalism (was Re: [novaroma] European Reaction) |
| From: |
"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 23 Sep 2001 13:44:39 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, "Cable" <hendrik.meuleman@p...> wrote:
>
> Every day, thousands are starving due to ex-colonial systems,
heritages of
> the cold war. Every day, thousands are being killed every day in armed
> conflicts, with arms supplied by the rich world. Every day, millions of
> children work 15 hours a day in sweatshops in terrible conditions to
comply
> the demands of the capitalist world. Every day, human beings like
you and I
> are being murdered or broken because of the convictions they hold,
while the
> western world is well aware of this.
> Can you sleep at night?
DRUSUS: I sleep very well at night, colonialism has NOTHING to do with
any starvation, the corrupt goverments in SOME former colonies that
have made living standards LOWER than they were in the colonial era
have caused problems. Arms don't cause conflicts, people do and these
conflicts are usualy between two gangs of looters who are fighting to
rape the area. The people in these areas WELCOME the sweetshops
because they are ALLREADY working 12-15 hour days for less money than
the western companies pay, thanks to the governments having looted the
nation.
The third world will NOT solve it's problems until it realizes that
most of it's problems are internal, not external. Sending large
ammounts of aid most of which will end up in some tin horn tyrants
bank account is not going to solve any problems.
>
> When Bush was elected, the US was the laughing stock of the rest of the
> world. I hope you realize this. And as I have said before, what I
think of
> your president has nothing to do with the sympathy I feel for the
victims of
> the tragedy. I'll say it again: human suffering goes above and beyond
> everything. But that does not mean that it has to be so black/white
as you
> portray it. It will only add to the polarization of the world.
DRUSUS: To be blunt, most of us don't give a damn what the rest of the
world thinks of our leader. The Democratic party nominated the
shallowest excuse for a human being I've ever seen, and tried to get
him elected by pushing a package of lies regarding the intelegence of
the Republican canidate. You are making a judgement based on those
lies. Are you aware that the "laughing stock" has degrees from TWO of
the most prestigous universities in America, while his allegdly
smarter opponent flunked out of Journalism school a far easier course
than the MBA the president holds.
I make a point of staying OUT of the internal affairs of other
Macronations, and have NEVER made a public comment advising others on
who to select, and expect the same courtsey from others. As far as I'm
concerned NonAmerican citizens have three choices. Ask your
Macronation to apply to the US government for admission as a state,
Move to the USA and apply for US citizenship, or shut up.
"human suffering goes above and beyond everything" is a black and
white statement, and a VERY black one. Most of the conflicts in the
world today stem from the idea that one groups "suffering" gives them
a blank check to do whatever they wish to releave their "suffering"
L. Sicinius Drusus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: A saddened American |
| From: |
"G. Noviodunus Ferriculus" <Gaius.Noviodunus@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 23 Sep 2001 17:06:40 +0200 |
|
Salvete omnes,
I don't want to add oil to the fire. I'm just gonna make a few
statements on which you might as well agree or disagree. Sleep over it
and then react. I think the worst think one can do is *overreact* just
because he hasn't slept over something.
1) I learnt in history classes that there is nothing called "friendship"
between nations. It's all about national interests. Let's take some
interesting examples: Switzerland bought gold from Nazi Germany: they
did this in order not to be destroyed by Hitler. The US helped Taliban
fighters with weapons during the war aginst Soviet Union: they did this
because it was a way fighting against the other superpower.
2) People don't always agree with their government. Often, they seem to
agree but they are in fact misleaded (wrong information), threatened (if
you disagree, you go to jail [or worse]), or they have other problems
(fighting for their living so they don't have the time for ideological
fights).
3) Big human casualties because of one event do impress people a lot,
much more than even bigger human casualties during a longer time. You
won't ever have a national mourning here in Switzerland because of the
200 dead and 16,000 wounded caused by car accidents. But you will have
one when a plane crashes and causes 200 deaths. I'm not saying here that
there shouldn't be any national mourning when a plane crashes, but there
also should be a national mourning once a year for all deaths from the
street.
4) No war can be justified with the words "Holly war" or "War of the
Good agains the Evil". War *is* evil, no matter why you make it. A war
always causes many casualties (more than street accidents in
Switzerland), mainly among non-military people (women, children,
seniors), causes suffering, destruction, poverty. In addition, a country
takes several decades to build up its economy after a war.
5) *Nobody* can judge the decisions of a government, unless he has been
living in the country for many years *and* understands why this decision
was taken. I haven't ever put my foot in the US, so I won't judge
decisions of Mr. Bush. I haven't ever put my foot in Afghanistan either,
so I won't judge the Taliban's decision not to transfer Bin Laden to the
US. This doesn't mean you are in favor of terrorism, war, suffering and
so on. Actually, I (personally) am against any form of violence, any
form of suffering and will do all I can to change this. If you want to
know, my activities include helping developpment in an Eastern European
Country as well as Nature Preservation.
I'd be glad to hear reactions to this. But please, first sleep over it!
Valete bene,
--
Gaius Noviodunus Ferriculus
Civis Provinciae Germaniae, Regionis Superioris
Friburgii Helvetiorum
|
| Subject: |
Re: Nationalism (was Re: [novaroma] European Reaction) |
| From: |
"Cable" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 23 Sep 2001 18:07:03 +0200 |
|
Salvete,
Well, this is quite off topic, but I'm not the only one...
> DRUSUS: I sleep very well at night, colonialism has NOTHING to do with
> any starvation, the corrupt goverments in SOME former colonies that
> have made living standards LOWER than they were in the colonial era
> have caused problems. Arms don't cause conflicts, people do and these
> conflicts are usualy between two gangs of looters who are fighting to
> rape the area.
Oh yes. And that is why the wealthy countries keep providing them with
weapons. Where's your heart? If these people wouldn't have arms, they may
come upon the idea of talking instead of bashing each other's head. By the
way, some colonies were intentionally abandoned quickly to keep them
dependent from external help. And many dictators remained in the seat of
power with either Soviet or American help (Mobutu, for example).
> The people in these areas WELCOME the sweetshops
> because they are ALLREADY working 12-15 hour days for less money than
> the western companies pay, thanks to the governments having looted the
> nation.
>
Does that justify these peoples' mistreatment?
> The third world will NOT solve it's problems until it realizes that
> most of it's problems are internal, not external. Sending large
> ammounts of aid most of which will end up in some tin horn tyrants
> bank account is not going to solve any problems.
>
On this I agree. But you cannot give them all the blame.
> DRUSUS: To be blunt, most of us don't give a damn what the rest of the
> world thinks of our leader. The Democratic party nominated the
> shallowest excuse for a human being I've ever seen, and tried to get
> him elected by pushing a package of lies regarding the intelegence of
> the Republican canidate. You are making a judgement based on those
> lies. Are you aware that the "laughing stock" has degrees from TWO of
> the most prestigous universities in America, while his allegdly
> smarter opponent flunked out of Journalism school a far easier course
> than the MBA the president holds.
>
Oh yes... That's why Bush said "Grecians" instead of "Greeks", called the
Spanish prime minister by a wrong name, repeatedly makes errors while
reading speeches, is dyslectic, replaced former presidents' images by his
own and has a lot of his workload being done by the vice president. And my
sources are not propaganda, but several newspapers, and Time Europe.
> I make a point of staying OUT of the internal affairs of other
> Macronations, and have NEVER made a public comment advising others on
> who to select, and expect the same courtsey from others. As far as I'm
> concerned NonAmerican citizens have three choices. Ask your
> Macronation to apply to the US government for admission as a state,
> Move to the USA and apply for US citizenship, or shut up.
>
Then why is this topic the major one for almost two weeks here? You can't
flood the NR list with this topic and expect the rest of the world to shut
up about a policy that affects the rest of the world, as the US is the sole
superpower left after the cold war.
> "human suffering goes above and beyond everything" is a black and
> white statement, and a VERY black one. Most of the conflicts in the
> world today stem from the idea that one groups "suffering" gives them
> a blank check to do whatever they wish to releave their "suffering"
>
That's a misinterpretation. I meant that suffering deserves attention, not
that it justifies retaliation.
Vale,
S. Apollonius Draco
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: FW: Tie a Purple Ribbon |
| From: |
"Teleri ferch Nyfain" <rckovak@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 23 Sep 2001 14:09:22 -0400 |
|
Salve,
Why thank you! It's the running after teenagers, undoubtedly, keeping me in shape.
Helena
Salve Helena Galeria:
I just saw your picture in the Magistrates Album of the Website.
If you don't mind my saying, you are absolutely beautiful, as well as
intelligent :)
Vale,
Pompeia
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Introduction |
| From: |
"Bart & Dorien" <bart_dorien@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 23 Sep 2001 16:19:54 +0100 |
|
Salve!
Dear Romans, allow me to introduce me as a new member to this list.
Dear Lady Moderator, I have recieved your list and thank you for the introduction.
I, Caius Puteus Germanicus was born 24 years ago and have been living in Germania Inferior, now part of the province of Gallia, since. My cognomen indicates my racial connections. I have been studying history at the university of Louvain and have always felt a special attraction to ancient Roman history, not only of the republic, but also of the early empire (principate). Disinterest grows as soon as christianity starts destroying what our forebears have been building up for a thousand years.
I am working in a car leasing company at the moment, part of a financial group that unites bank, assurance and leasing activities (not that this might be of any interest here). I am living together with my girlfriend Dorien.
I grew up in a society in which christianity was dying. As an adolescent I became interested in paganism, germanic version, the so called asatru. I am however convinced that every indo-european nation shares the same basic divine figures. Tacitus interpreted the germanic gods as members of the roman pantheon, calling the equivalent of Donar/Thor Jupiter and Wodan/Odin Mercurius. I am proud of having germanic roots, but I feel connected to Rome even more. Rome is the first universalist nation in history, the basis for present day western civilisation. I hope you will understand me being faithfull to Indo-European divinities, in the form of the religio romana as well as asatru (which word means nothing more or less than 'faithfull to the gods').
I claim roman citizenship based on several principles: first of all the historical edictum of Caracalla in the early third century, in which the emperor gives citizenship to all free born men and women in the Imperium. Secondly, since I try to realise the principles of virtus in my own life (e.g. the importance of honour, family life, etc.). As Tacitus tells us in De Germania those principles are not even so different from the germanic ones (except for the concept of state, of course). I honour the Indo-European gods, and feel like adopting the via romana. Last but not least, I claim descendence from both germanic and roman settlers. As any European will know, no nation in western Europe can claim a clear racial descendence, the only thing thas is certain is the mother tongue you speak. As a Belgian, I grew up with both French and Dutch... and I have relatives in both parts of the country.
I feel ready to help the res publica romana with rebuilding its imperium! After more than a millenium we still have the strength for doing so, and I want to be part of it!
I hope I did not bore you with this introduction, and I hope to contribute to the development of this list,
Vale!
C. Puteus Germanicus
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Tacitus. De Germania |
| From: |
"Bart & Dorien" <bart_dorien@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 23 Sep 2001 16:25:35 +0100 |
|
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/tacitus1.html
Vale,
C. Puteus Germanicus
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: Nationalism (was Re: [novaroma] European Reaction) |
| From: |
Michel Loos <loos@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 23 Sep 2001 11:37:33 -0300 |
|
Lucius Sicinius Drusus wrote:
>
> --- In novaroma@--------, "Cable" <hendrik.meuleman@p...> wrote:
>
> >
> > Every day, thousands are starving due to ex-colonial systems,
> heritages of
> > the cold war. Every day, thousands are being killed every day in armed
> > conflicts, with arms supplied by the rich world. Every day, millions of
> > children work 15 hours a day in sweatshops in terrible conditions to
> comply
> > the demands of the capitalist world. Every day, human beings like
> you and I
> > are being murdered or broken because of the convictions they hold,
> while the
> > western world is well aware of this.
> > Can you sleep at night?
>
> DRUSUS: I sleep very well at night, colonialism has NOTHING to do with
> any starvation, the corrupt goverments in SOME former colonies that
> have made living standards LOWER than they were in the colonial era
> have caused problems. Arms don't cause conflicts, people do and these
> conflicts are usualy between two gangs of looters who are fighting to
> rape the area.
Selling the arms _allows_ the conflict, it does not cause it. (Even if
I must aknowledge that the conflict would still happen with knifes and
spears, it would be perhaps less deadly).
> The people in these areas WELCOME the sweetshops
> because they are ALLREADY working 12-15 hour days for less money than
> the western companies pay, thanks to the governments having looted the
> nation.
Most of those countries could have been in Capital accumulation phase
for some 50 years now. Western neo-colonialism prevented this by
draining the capital
to the western countries and still imposing a capitalistic form of
economy.
This equation cannot work. In order for capitalism to produce common
wealth
there must be some local capital, without it this is just exploration.
>
> The third world will NOT solve it's problems until it realizes that
> most of it's problems are internal, not external. Sending large
> ammounts of aid most of which will end up in some tin horn tyrants
> bank account is not going to solve any problems.
>
Totally agreed, charity is never a solution. The "aid" mostly serves to
stabilize the tyrants which were for a long time supported because they
were
anti-communist.
Solidarity would help: stopping to manipulate the commodities market and
the international currency market. Oppening the borders to 3rd world
products
(not only commodities).
Not linking the FMI loans to anti-social local politics wich are just
turning the countries more disequal.
> >
> > When Bush was elected, the US was the laughing stock of the rest of the
> > world. I hope you realize this. And as I have said before, what I
> think of
> > your president has nothing to do with the sympathy I feel for the
> victims of
> > the tragedy. I'll say it again: human suffering goes above and beyond
> > everything. But that does not mean that it has to be so black/white
> as you
> > portray it. It will only add to the polarization of the world.
>
> DRUSUS: To be blunt, most of us don't give a damn what the rest of the
> world thinks of our leader. The Democratic party nominated the
> shallowest excuse for a human being I've ever seen, and tried to get
> him elected by pushing a package of lies regarding the intelegence of
> the Republican canidate. You are making a judgement based on those
> lies. Are you aware that the "laughing stock" has degrees from TWO of
> the most prestigous universities in America, while his allegdly
> smarter opponent flunked out of Journalism school a far easier course
> than the MBA the president holds.
>
Not sure what Draco meant, here down it is the way he was elected that
was the reason for laugh, strange democracy yours.
Bush does not seem stupid but he really lacks basic knowledge in
geography and
geopolitics, lack of knowledge he shares with a lot a financial wizards
which
can badly influence whole markets because they mix up 2 countries with
little
in common for instance.
> I make a point of staying OUT of the internal affairs of other
> Macronations, and have NEVER made a public comment advising others on
> who to select, and expect the same courtsey from others. As far as I'm
> concerned NonAmerican citizens have three choices. Ask your
> Macronation to apply to the US government for admission as a state,
> Move to the USA and apply for US citizenship, or shut up.
>
When the USA are about to start WWIII the whole world is implied and
is invited to speak, wasn t this your argument in your letter to Bush
etc. ?
> "human suffering goes above and beyond everything" is a black and
> white statement, and a VERY black one. Most of the conflicts in the
> world today stem from the idea that one groups "suffering" gives them
> a blank check to do whatever they wish to releave their "suffering"
Agreed and that is exactly why a lot of people are against any
intervention
against Afghanistan : The USA suffering does not allow them to make
the Afghans suffer.
Some numbers from latin-america against retaliation:
Brasil: 79% against
Mexico: 78% against
Argentine: 77% against
(Source : Folha de SP 22/09/01)
Manius Villius Limitanus
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] European Reaction |
| From: |
"Teleri ferch Nyfain" <rckovak@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 23 Sep 2001 14:25:24 -0400 |
|
Salve, Maximina
I am an American. Born & bred here. I feel that some of the milder criticisms of the US are more than justified. Course I'm an old hippie - you know, Vietnam war protester. I currently protest against globilization and the rape of our environment. Of course, our country is hardly the worst or only offender, but as the wealthiest and largest technologically advanced nation in the world I do feel we have an obligation as world citizens that unfortunately our politicians don't seem to recognize. Also, multi-national corporations seem to have much too large a say in what goes on in Washington nowadays, when after all we are supposed to be a nation by the people for the people. Someone wrote that targeting the WTC supposedly was meant to send a message against the global corporate world, rather than just the US. I believe that.
As for this statement <<<How much money or time has your country or you offered in the war on drugs?>>> I wish we'd stop throwing good money after bad on this losing proposition. Does NO ONE remember prohibition or its ignominious failure?
Oh, by the way - I'm retired Navy, so don't think I'm all peace & love. Not at all. I want to see the terrorists responsible for this (& the Taliban period) brought to justice, and dealt with in a way that stops their sick agenda forever. But we need to address injustices done abroad by Western influences. That will destroy the power base these fanatics have gotten from people who have good reason to be upset with us.
Vale bene,
Helena Galeria
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: Nationalism (was Re: [novaroma] European Reaction) |
| From: |
"Teleri ferch Nyfain" <rckovak@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 23 Sep 2001 14:37:27 -0400 |
|
Drusus,
WE in the 50s & 60s backed some horrendous tyrants JUST because they had no socialist ties. Read "The Ugly American" - its based on sad fact. That's what Draco is talking about no doubt. Oh, & I am an American and am NOT 18.
Also, American (actually multinational now) corporations have perpetrated some terrible injustices on the poorer nations. All in the name of profit. The latest atrocity is to refuse to manufacture drugs against maleria and other diseases since its not profitable - after all only the poorest countries still have problems with these diseases. Never mind how many people die each year.
Also, Gore got the majority vote in the election last fall. So I guess the majority of Americans did NOT want Dubya in office. Fact.
It worries me a lot - seeing this Love it or Leave it attitude raise its ugly head again in the aftermath of this tragedy. I fought against this as a teenager & I naively thought that we'd grown away from such a simple-minded attitude.
Helena Galeria
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Introduction |
| From: |
"Teleri ferch Nyfain" <rckovak@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 23 Sep 2001 14:43:12 -0400 |
|
Salve Caius Puteus Germanicus,
Welcome to Nova Roma. Have you applied for citizenship?
I envy all our European citizens, who actually live in part of the old Empire.
Vale Bene
Helena Galeria
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: European Reaction |
| From: |
radams36@-------- |
| Date: |
Sun, 23 Sep 2001 20:28:36 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, "Teleri ferch N--------n" <rckovak@e...> wrote:
> Salve, Maximina
> I am an American. Born & bred here. I feel that some of the
milder criticisms of the US are more than justified. Course I'm an
old hippie - you know, Vietnam war protester. I currently protest
against globilization and the rape of our environment. Of course,
our country is hardly the worst or only offender, but as the
wealthiest and largest technologically advanced nation in the world I
do feel we have an obligation as world citizens that unfortunately
our politicians don't seem to recognize. Also, multi-national
corporations seem to have much too large a say in what goes on in
Washington nowadays, when after all we are supposed to be a nation by
the people for the people. Someone wrote that targeting the WTC
supposedly was meant to send a message against the global corporate
world, rather than just the US. I believe that.
>
> As for this statement <<<How much money or time has your country or
you offered in the war on drugs?>>> I wish we'd stop throwing good
money after bad on this losing proposition. Does NO ONE remember
prohibition or its ignominious failure?
>
> Oh, by the way - I'm retired Navy, so don't think I'm all peace &
love. Not at all. I want to see the terrorists responsible for this
(& the Taliban period) brought to justice, and dealt with in a way
that stops their sick agenda forever. But we need to address
injustices done abroad by Western influences. That will destroy the
power base these fanatics have gotten from people who have good
reason to be upset with us.
>
> Vale bene,
> Helena Galeria
>
Well said, Galeria. There are a LOT of U.S. policies that I disagree
with, but the ideals and principals that the country was founded on
are still worthy of respect and admiration. I do think we need to
examine and re-think Middle Eastern and Central American policy, in
particular, and I have thought so for a LONG time. And I would LOVE
to see some of the money that we WASTE on drug interdiction re-routed
to terrorist interdiction. I don't favor drugs (and have never done
illegal drugs of any kind), but I do think that if someone wants to
destroy their life with drug abuse, that's their choice and their
right (unless they harm others directly in the process). More
importantly, Prohibition should have shown us that this kind of
approach just doesn't work - it's a waste of effort. That's effort
and resources that we could apply better, IMHO, to fighting terrorism.
Vale,
Rufus Iulius Palaeologus
|
| Subject: |
Re: Nationalism (was Re: [novaroma] European Reaction) |
| From: |
Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 23 Sep 2001 15:59:03 -0500 (CDT) |
|
Salve,
> replaced former presidents' images by his own
I thought it was Caligula who did that...
Seriously, what do you mean by this?
Vale, O.
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator
TALIBAN DELENDA EST
|
| Subject: |
Re: Nationalism (was Re: [novaroma] European Reaction) |
| From: |
"Cable" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 23 Sep 2001 23:18:00 +0200 |
|
Salve Marce Octavi,
>
> > replaced former presidents' images by his own
>
> I thought it was Caligula who did that...
>
> Seriously, what do you mean by this?
>
One of my friends told me. He said all images (paintings, photographs) of
former presidents had been removed, and replaced by his own. I don't know
what my friend's source is but knowing him it was probably not just a funny
forward.
Vale bene!
Draco
|
| Subject: |
Re: Nationalism (was Re: [novaroma] European Reaction) |
| From: |
Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 23 Sep 2001 16:30:15 -0500 (CDT) |
|
Salve,
> > > replaced former presidents' images by his own
> > I thought it was Caligula who did that...
> > Seriously, what do you mean by this?
>
> One of my friends told me. He said all images (paintings, photographs) of
> former presidents had been removed, and replaced by his own. I don't know
> what my friend's source is but knowing him it was probably not just a funny
> forward.
Perhaps he replaced a painting or two in his own private rooms in
the White House, such as the bedroom... but if this happened in any
of the public areas of the White House I think it would have been major
news here. We should classify this one as a myth.
Vale, O.
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator
TALIBAN DELENDA EST
|
| Subject: |
Re: Nationalism (was Re: [novaroma] European Reaction) |
| From: |
"Cable" <hendrik.meuleman@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 23 Sep 2001 23:34:56 +0200 |
|
Salve,
> >
> > One of my friends told me. He said all images (paintings, photographs)
of
> > former presidents had been removed, and replaced by his own. I don't
know
> > what my friend's source is but knowing him it was probably not just a
funny
> > forward.
>
> Perhaps he replaced a painting or two in his own private rooms in
> the White House, such as the bedroom... but if this happened in any
> of the public areas of the White House I think it would have been major
> news here. We should classify this one as a myth.
A white house legend :)
Vale,
Draco
|
| Subject: |
Nationalism (was Re: [novaroma] European Reaction) |
| From: |
"Lucius Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@--------> |
| Date: |
Sun, 23 Sep 2001 21:58:25 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, "Cable" <hendrik.meuleman@p...> wrote:
> Salve,
>
> > >
> > > One of my friends told me. He said all images (paintings,
photographs)
> of
> > > former presidents had been removed, and replaced by his own. I don't
> know
> > > what my friend's source is but knowing him it was probably not
just a
> funny
> > > forward.
> >
> > Perhaps he replaced a painting or two in his own private rooms in
> > the White House, such as the bedroom... but if this happened in any
> > of the public areas of the White House I think it would have been
major
> > news here. We should classify this one as a myth.
>
> A white house legend :)
>
> Vale,
> Draco
Salve,
It may refer to the replacement of the photos of President Clinton in
Federal Offices. Many Federal offices have a photo of the current
President on the wall. The Elder Bush's photos were removed when
Clinton came in, and President Bush's photos will come down when he
leaves office.
Vale,
Drusus
|
