Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Consular Edictum: Fundraising Drive
From:	VMoeller@--------
Date:	Mon, 01 Oct 2001 21:09:25 EDT

Congratulations Consul and all Nova Roma!

How exciting! Nova Roma starts its first capitol campaign! She is taking the first big steps to becoming a renowned non-profit organization one day! It all starts with us!

I applaud the challenge to the Senate issued by Consul Germanicus. I, in turn, will contribute $120 (US) for use in the General Treasury. Why limit the challenge to Senators? I challenge all cives to participate!


Vale,

---Secunda Cornelia Valeria,
Propraetrix America Medioccidentalis Superior
Quaestrix of Nova Roma

Subject:	[novaroma] Some spanish ideas (Was Spain & U.S.)
From:	sceptia@--------
Date:	Mon, 01 Oct 2001 21:08:37 -0000

Salve cives, et salve hispanicus.

First of all, I have to introduce myself. I Live in Madrid and not
many time ago I have just reached the citizenship. My real name is
David, and in case you want to write answering me, do it to
sceptia@--------

After this brief presentation, I put myself on the point.
Iīm european, spanish, but before that Iīm a HUMAN BEING. That means
we canīt start making differences betwen us. We can have different
cultures or ideas, religion beliefs or political thougths. What we
must set is that there is no difference between me or a muslim or you
anyone.
People from many countries died in NYC. It means that not only your
country was attacked by terrorism, but the whole world. Is obvius
that the US is trying to get aid from the rest of the world, but not
use it for killing ghosts. Terrorism is not a war, is a cancer.
In my country, as my spanish friends have said, ETA is not a "Freedom
Armed Group". They are killers. A gangster group. In Ireland, thera
are many groups supported by british and irish. In Europe, we have
had some other groups, communist or traditionalist. But the fact was
that they all are just murderers.
When someone takes a gun, no idea, no justification can be used.
Because of that, no retaliaton is justified. Killing because of being
killed is not the solution.
In my country, I have seen those acts called "freedom fight". A bunch
of military people was killed in front of me with a bomb. They died,
the sky was fulled with smoke and I couldnīt believe my eyes. After
that, hearing a relativeīs victim, I understand her pain, her grief
and sorrow. But I never heard from she a scream asking for murder,
for revenge, for retaliaton. Her answer was: "I hope one day I can
explain to my son that this is just fanatism and hate, but it doesnīt
deserve the same answer."
In my country, some governments had used what they called "Dirty war"
against ETA. The results? Worse than before. Answering a bullet with
another bullet just make blood burst and impossible to stop it.
It was Petain (I donīt admire him, but some times people of any kind
says clever things) who said when France was to be taken by the nazis:
"Victory in battles are no more for generals; now the teachers must
be the soldiers".
I really believe that your grief, our pain, the suffering, is not to
be used for generate more grief and sorrow and pain. Stop this wheel
and maybe we have the solution.
The US is a country admirable for many things. But they are not alone
in the world. Not at all. For all. And as many of your thinkers have
said, this is not a war of civilizations, a religious war or a war in
any sense. Is the answer of some murderers to their conceptions about
your country. Spain has suffered it for many years. We donīt have yet
a solution. But perhaps a help beyond the war system between nations
could give to us this answer. Meanwhile I humbly sugest that the
bombing of Afghanistan an the use of the Army is not the answer in a
medium or long time. Its more blood for the wheel.

Apologize for my english, a bit forgotten.

I Hope the people who have had any loss or relative or friend
captured in this tragedy would see in my words the grief for it and
not hate or hapinnes. I saw it when I was travelling around Scotland
and I couldnīt believe it. I saw again the smoke, but in another
city. And I felt again the deep sorrow of senseless dead. But no dead
has sense.
Anyone who desires to talk to my is welcome to discuss my points of
view. I wont reject it.

Lucius Didius Geminus Sceptius.
Ciudadano.


--- In novaroma@--------, "Javier Augusto Gil-Ruiz Gil-Esparza"
<javier_gil_ruiz@--------> wrote:
>
> Salve cives, et salve, Marcus Audens.
>
> Although this conversation is between you and Astur, I am a
spaniard,
> and know Astur personally (he is actually part of my family). So I
> feel entitled to express my views, which are in fact quite similar
to
> his.
>
> --- In novaroma@--------, jmath669642reng@w... wrote:
> > Legatus / Triumvir Gnaeus Salix Astur;
> > No, Master Astur, neither you nor your country owe me a thing.
> > Friendship between individuals brings it's own mutually agreeable
> > obligations, and nations owe other nations only what is agreed to
by
> > formal agreement or treaty.
>
> True. And in this case, formal agreements and treaties state great
> mutual obligations. But apart from written contracts, there is a
> mutual sharing of goals and values, and a common opinion in both
> populations that we are "friends". This doesn't stop both our
> countries from spying on each other, sadly. But it does help them
not
> to take umbrage when some case is found out.
>
> > I simply find that when I (and usually others) are critical of
> another
> > country's actions without dwelling there, and being familiar with
> the
> > culture found in that country, one tends to judge others by the
same
> > ruler, that he / she uses in his own nation. This can be a real
> > problem, as we have recently seen, since there can be, and very
> often
> > is, an extremely large difference between the view of people of
> > different cultural, geographic and religious backgrounds.
>
> Well, one can hardly not agree to this. There is much to your
> statement. But the need to "make a simplified scientific model" of
> another peoples and cultures in order to judge them is always
there.
> For example, it is historically important now to ascertain how the
> muslim integrist movement thinks and reacts, not only in order to
> judge part of it but as a means to end our conflict with them.
>
> The mere concept of "ethics" compared to "moral" states that there
> are things that are "inmoral", that is, wrong in some cultures and
> environments, and things that are "unethical", that is, wrong in
> every culture and environment.
>
> Conceiving the existence of such a "metamoral" is audacious, but
also
> a basic necessity for convivence. And it also is a source for
> conflict. Many cultures see the discrimination of women, religious
> intolerance, disregard for human rights or forms of authoritarian
> government as peculiarities of their cultural morality. On other
> easier grounds, I think that america and europe should find a
common
> ground in some matters in order to ease their convivence, and
> dialogue and mutual criticism is necessary for this.
>
> But I have faith in the existence of a universal common sense and
> need for peace and mutual respect. The signs for it are always
there.
> For example, recently I have read the interesting opinion of
spanish
> diplomats in pakistan about the taliban psychology. It is a really
> interesting insight which I am sure american authorities and media
> also have. In it they express their amazement and joy at the
mullahs
> petition to Bin Laden that he should abandon their country of his
own
> will (they, and all their acquaintances, had expected something
much
> more radical and confrontational). Of course, both our countries
> rightly see this as void and insufficient. But it shows that even
> those fanatics who would like to die for their beliefs and never
have
> changed their minds retain some human common sense.
>
> But I digress. In my opinion, U.S. citizenship is not a sine qua
non
> precondition for the liberty of expression regarding its inner
> politics. I see how a great knowledge only attainable through
> long "on the spot" experience would be necessary to do so without
> erring. But the candid, respectful voicing of constructive if
> erroneous opinion should be allowed and approved, if only as a
means
> of ascertaining foreign vox populi (and because of mere principle).
>
> Besides, I believe that, as a whole, spaniards are much better
> prepared to judge americans than the other way round. Not because
of
> any superiority on our side, of course! But I have known many
> americans who did not realise how so much of their country is
> irradiated to the "outer world" in so many ways (throughout our
whole
> lives) and who were surprised at how well they were known abroad.
It
> is something the most popular culture in the world will just have
to
> live with.
>
> This, of course, only applies in general terms to the majority of
the
> population (who hasn't lived in spain for two years). I have had
the
> privilege of briefly taking part (mostly listening) in
conversations
> with some high ranking US and NATO military, and was agreeably
> surprised at seeing some of the most intelligent and knowledgeable
> people I've known of. These individuals did show much multicultural
> savvy.
>
> > Just from my limited knowledge of the Islamic Faith and reading
the
> > Koran, my explanation of some differing philosophies to a member
of
> the
> > Greek Orthodox Church recently completely confused the poor
> individual
> > to whom I was explaining my views, and who indicated to me that "I
> > sounded like I was sympathic to the attackers of my country!!!!"
> With
> > that kind of response to a question asked of me, I hang up my
> attempts
> > to be a diplomat. I realize that such a venue is not my
particular
> > forte!!!!!!!
> >
> > My gentle reminder of the past things that the U.S. has done, was
> best
> > laid out by our Canadian friend (on which I cannot improve) that
was
> > posted here a few days ago, and which I recommend again for anyone
> > interested, with my thanks, for his thoughts being brought to
this
> list.
> >
> > No, Master Astur, you owe me or mine nothing, except perhaps that
> you
> > may not understand everything that we do here in my country,
since
> our
> > cultures are so different. I have lived in Spain for two years
on
> your
> > economy, in a Spanish house, in a Spanish neighborhood, and have
> dealt
> > extensively with the Spanish people in everyday life. Even so, I
> could
> > not bring myself to be critical of how your government worked,
since
> > almost daily I saw and heard tidbits which were a puzzle to me,
and
> when
> > the answers to these puzzles were explained, I found these
answers
> to be
> > perfectly reasonable from the view of the Spanish people, as a
> whole.
> > Sometimes the small missing part of knowledge or piece of
> information
> > changes the whole picture of what is going on in the world in
whch
> we
> > find ourselves. Of course, as I grow older, I also find that I am
> less
> > sure of anything in a hard and fast sense, since there is almost
> always
> > some further piece of information which needs to be introduced
into
> any
> > question of national import. A weakness, I suppose that those of
> > younger years do not have, and which has only grown on me in the
> last 30
> > years or so.
> >
> > Some time ago I wrote to this list regarding making decisions,
and
> being
> > critical of them when one does not have all the available
> information.
> > Since I felt, that I would never be in possssion of all the
> information
> > which made up the decisions of the Spanish Government, I decided
> not to
> > be critical of it and simply enjoy my stay there among a unique
and
> > essentially happy and hospitable people. I found that this idea,
> while
> > some may label it as "sticking one's head in the sand" enabled me
to
> > enjoy my stay there, to make friends instead of enemies, and
pursue
> much
> > more effectively the questions that arose about the differences
> between
> > our two cultures.
>
> Yes, this is a common occurence. It is funny that some foreigners
who
> come to live to Spain think this way till the point when they begin
> to think like spaniards and begin not to understand their original
> countries.
>
> But, as an american who has lived in Spain you will understand our
> surprise at the concern in the U.S. about the statements of
european
> media and individuals. Of course I see that the media should not
take
> a sympathetic or lax stance or language towards terrorism. But
> distance often breeds misunderstanding, and this is normal. Some
> popular american media are talking about spanish terrorism when
> trying to be neutral in a manner that is hurtful for us and would
be
> deemed so by you if it referred to Al Quaeda as, for
example, "armed
> pro-islamist group", etc.(I add a link for your pleasure).
>
> http://cnn.looksmart.com/r_search?
>
l&izch&qc=&col=cnni&qm=0&st=1&nh=10&rf=1&venue=all&keyword=&qp=&search
> =0&key=ETA
>
> > However each to his own. No sir, you owe me nothing, perhaps it
is
> I
> > who owe you for the opportunity to say these words on this list.
As
> > others have said this idea may be off-topic in some ways, but in
> others
> > (such as the Roman Virtues) it may well be very much on-topic, as
it
> > seems to me, that criticism of another's country, ideas, and
> > discussions, unless extremely pointed, are best dealt with in
> generosity
> > and understanding, and with the idea that "honey catches more
flies
> than
> > salt."
> >
> > This has been the plea on this list for a very long time (over
three
> > years) and we have still not mastered the apparent, and very
> difficult
> > art of it.
>
> Well, this list has indeed been a means of getting to know the
> american mind better for Astur and me! At least we both think we
know
> you better just from continuously reading from american cives.
>
> Devotio Hispanica semper vivat.
>
> Marcus Salix Saverius

Subject:	[novaroma] Re: A homeland (long)
From:	"CJ Sitter" <otto_von_sitter@-------->
Date:	Mon, 01 Oct 2001 23:58:32 -0000

Very well said. I've seen many arguments going between
starting with a capitol and starting with outposts and to just
staying online. Costs aside, (another words not "let's go do this
now") starting with one place, not necessarily calling it a capitol
yet, might be better as we can then call that our homeland.
Using what you have described, I can think of at least three
places off hand that could do: the United States, Canada, and
most everywhere in Europe. Before another aurgument starts
about which place is better or that I'm biased to those locations, I
only picked those because from what I know, those places have
the best economy and we won't have to worry too much about
security. The problem with picking one place is that even if we
pick a place where most everyone can go, not everyone will be
able to go there. Unfortunately, that is unavoidable, but if we are
to have a homeland, some people are going to be left out at first.
I've accepted that fact that none of this may happen until I am very
old or maybe not even in my lifespan. If it happens before then, I
still maynot be able to visit it.. Even if by some miracle it
happened tommorro, I still could not visit because I'm a student
at college and cannot afford it. At least I would still be able to say
Nova Roma exists and that I am a citizen. I will give everything I
can to make this dream a possibility, but it won't be much for
some time. When I graduate and become an engineer I will be
able to give more. I encourage everyone to give what they can
spare. Even if it isn't much at first, every bit adds up (just think of
how rich you'd be if you only drank water and not soda or other
expensive drinks :-) ).

There once was a dream that was Rome, join in it, and it shall
be realised.

Marcus Cornelius Tiberius

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Roman Day Columbus, Ohio
From:	asseri@--------
Date:	Mon, 1 Oct 2001 22:41:29 EDT

Hello,
I and two others will be coming. For a total of three.

I want you to ask the ladies if they would like to pick from the
fabric I have instead of me picking it for them? its just an idea but as a
woman my self I can be quite funny about colors. I still have plenty of time
to make something for them .

see ya

janet


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[novaroma] opps major blush
From:	asseri@--------
Date:	Mon, 1 Oct 2001 22:51:14 EDT

Sorry all,
i just finised working 12 hours retail by my self!!
it was
" Crazy Day at the Human Zoo"

P. F. Druslia
Janet the confused


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[novaroma] Consular Edictum: Nova Roma Land Project
From:	cassius622@--------
Date:	Mon, 1 Oct 2001 22:57:50 EDT

Salvete Omnes,

I am pleased to announce the formation of an official forum for the
discussion of land for Nova Roma: the Nova Roma Land Project.

The topic of land for Nova Roma has been a major topic of discussion on the
main list for some time. While such discussion is needed and useful, there
should also be a forum dedicated to the practical aspects of finding,
obtaining and maintaining sovereign land for NR.

To this end I have created a new list (many thanks to Proconsul Marcus Audens
for the idea!): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NRLandProject

This forum is open to all Nova Roma citizens. I invite our magistrates to
participate, especially those working on the Provinciae level, since they
are the most used to working for NR within geographic borders.

Land for Nova Roma has been long time dream for many of us. At last, with a
thousand Citizens and some basic ideas already laid out, it is time for us to
work toward the reality of that dream.

To subscribe to the Nova Roma Land Project list, send a blank email to:
NRLandProject-subscribe@--------

I look forward to seeing you there! :)

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus
Consul, Pontifex Maximus





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Natalis solis invicti / Christmas
From:	"Teleri ferch Nyfain" <rckovak@-------->
Date:	Tue, 2 Oct 2001 00:02:41 -0400

Salvete,
I wholeheartedly agree - of course I already celebrate the Solstice rather than the 25th LOL
Valete,
Helena Galeria.
because of this 4 day error that was not
corrected by the Gregroian reform we are celebrating some of our rites
4 days later than we should be. December 25th was the date of the
winter soltice 2100 years ago so we would be more correct if we
celebrated Sol Invictus on the 21st (the soltice under the current
calendar) rather than the Julian date of December 25th.

L. Sicinius Drusus




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Subject:	[novaroma] File - NovaRomaList.txt
From:	novaroma@--------
Date:	2 Oct 2001 05:52:39 -0000

GUIDELINES FOR THE NOVA ROMA MAILING LIST

By Priscilla Vedia Serena
Curatrix Sermonem (List moderator)
(with thanks to Patricia Cassia for the original text)

This list is for you, and I see my role as trying to facilitate a place where we can all share information and get to know one another. These guidelines are open to change, and to your suggestions. Today the list has more than 350 people on it. As we've grown, we have had to adjust the way we communicate so as to make electronic "rooom" for everyone. This set of guidelines represents another effort in that direction. It is not a response to any one person or posting.

I.The list is set up so that replies will automatically be sent to the entire list. Please keep this in mind when replying. If your reply is only intended for one member, consider sending the reply privately and not to the list as a whole.

II.Agreement and support for one another are always welcome. However, if you are simply saying "yes!" or "me too," without adding more information to the thread, consider doing so in private e-mail.

III.If you must criticize another's post, consider doing so in private e-mail. If the person has made a genuine error, this allows him or her to save face and apologize for misbehavior or correct misinformation, rather than having misdeeds pointed out publicly.

IV.It is entirely appropriate to disagree publicly with another's stated views, or with the actions of Nova Roma's Senate, magistrates and other officials. Nova Roma is an organization of individuals from a wide variety of nations, religions, backgrounds and political viewpoints, and it is only reasonable that our views should differ.

V.When expressing disagreement, the following steps are recommended:

* Express respect for the person and faith in his or her good intentions.

* Point out any themes or ideas with which you do agree.

* Express your own opinion pleasantly, with respect for the rights of others to believe differently from you. On the Internet, strong language does not enhance the effectiveness of your communication. It simply makes you look strident and overbearing.

* Offer factual information where possible, backed up with sources. Quiet statements of fact win respect from others following your conversation.

* Offer sources of factual information (books, web links, etc.) that might be of interest to others interested in the topic.

* Use humor when appropriate (i.e. when it helps lighten the tone of a discussion without being aimed at other list members)

VI.If a thread or posting on the list makes you angry or sad, consider not responding at all, or doing so in private e-mail. If you do decide to respond to something that has pressed your emotional buttons, do not press Send right after writing your response. Let it sit in your Out box for 24 hours. Then look at it again, and consider whether this response is the one that best enhances your own honor and advances the knowledge of your fellow list members.

VII.Remember that there are people on this list who are under 18. Profanity is unnecessary and genrally unwelcome. Sexual references should be mild at worst.

VIII.Name-calling and personal attacks are inappropriate. Expressions of disagreement should be confined to criticizing the words or ideas of another, rather than the person. You are always free to disagree with an idea, but please do not turn an ideological debate into a personal fight.

IX.During the time leading up to elections (held each December, and occasionally at other times if offices become vacant), this list is also one of the public forums through which candidates express their views and present their qualifications to the populace. All of the above strictures governing appropriate behavior remain in place and apply to all candidates and their supporters.

X.Avoid giving out your home address and/or phone number on this list. You do not know all the people on here, and while it would be pleasant to believe we are all good-hearted and sane, you cannot trust in that.

XI. All posts to the list should be accompanied by an English translation if they are written in another language. If you are unable to write in English, or uncomfortable posting in English, please let me know and I will be more than happy to facilitate your pairing with a translator who can help you to do so. Posts in multiple languages are MORE than welcome, as long as an English translation is included somewhere therein. Please note there is no penalty for violating this policy on a "first time" basis, as it is assumed that anyone doing so is simply in need of assistance and not consciously choosing to violate list policy.

XII.The topic of this list is ancient Rome and Nova Roma. Off-topic postings include:

* Discussions of macronational politics, except when they shed light on an ancient Roman subject or in some way relate to Nova Roma.

* Bashing of any religion. It is OK to discuss your own disagreements with various faiths, but not to disrespect the rights of others to believe in those faiths.

* Personal attacks of any kind. Be mindful to keep disagreements on the issues and not on personalities.

* Arguments on certain well-worn issues that are contentious in modern society (examples: abortion, gun control), except as they relate to our topic.

* Jokes that aren't related to the topic or to current discussions on the list

* Virus warnings and other urban legends.

* All commercial postings, except from members of the Macellum, Nova Roma's marketplace (and even these should be "low-key" - see below).

XIII.The best postings include those which help us better understand some aspect of Roman history, or which offer ideas and energy to the furtherance of Nova Roma's goals. On-topic postings include, but are not limited to:

* Anything related to ancient history. This is broadly interpreted to include religion, cooking, gardening, family life, politics, military, costuming, medicine and many other topics.

* Anything that has the effect of building community among list members (announcements of local events, planning get-togethers, sharing occasional personal milestones).

* Information of interest to Nova Romans (links, news, tourism information for Roman sites, updates from political or religious bodies, regional or Sodalitas projects).

* Low-key advertisements for Macellum members. A low-key advertisement might include a signature file, a single announcement of a new business, or a mention of one's business in response to a relevant thread on the list.

XIV.The Curatrix Sermonem has imperium to govern this list, but prefers to encourage positive interaction rather than punish negative behavior. In the case of a poster whose actions violate these guidelines or otherwise disrupt the peace, the Curatrix Sermonem will choose from the following list of escalating actions:

i.General note to the list, not directed at anyone personally, but mentioning the behavior in question and suggesting alternate courses of action.

ii.Private note to the individual, warning him or her to stop.

iii.Placement of the individual on "moderated" status (the individual remains a member of the list, but all posts must be filtered by the Curatrix Sermonem).

iv.In extreme cases, the offender can and will be banned from the list. Further action may be taken by the Senate, but this step represents the limit of the Curatrix Sermonem's powers.

The vast majority of cases can be dealt with via the first two steps alone, and it is the Curatrix Sermonem's hope that these guidelines will reduce the necessity even of those steps.

In the further interest of maintaining order and civility on the list, all new subscribers (this includes former members who re-subscribe) are automatically placed on moderated status for their first few posts, after which they revert to normal "unmoderated" status. As this list has an open membership, this policy allows us to avoid the occasional "spam" posts and is intended solely to prevent abuses of the list on a "hit and run" basis. This policy is not intended as, nor will it ever be used as, a form of censorship. It is an unfortunately necessary precaution based on past abuses.

XV.If you are unhappy about someone's behavior on the list, and you do not feel comfortable dealing with him/her privately, do not tell the list about it. This often has the effect of adding further strife. Likewise, if a thread has "gone too far" in your opinion, please refrain from making public statements to cease discussion. Contact me and I will assess the situation and decide upon a course of action accordingly. Instead, e-mail me at justicecmo@-------- I welcome all concerns, questions and ideas for more effective list administration in private e-mail.

XVI.Finally, to all of you who make the Nova Roma list a pleasant and informative place, thank you.

Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Re: Natalis solis invicti / Christmas
From:	Michel Loos <loos@-------->
Date:	01 Oct 2001 10:33:39 -0300

On Sun, 2001-09-30 at 22:05, Lucius Sicinius Drusus wrote:
> --- In novaroma@--------, Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@--------> wrote:
> > Salvete Quirites; et salve, Mr. Vanderhoofven.
> >
> > --- ndvander@-------- wrote:
> SNIP
> >
> > There are a few subtle questions about your post I would like to
> > discuss, if you want.
> > You said: << I think that December 25 was originally the Winter
> > Solstice in say about 100 BC. Since the Julian calendar was being
> > used, the date slipped 4 days by the time it was adopted as Christmas.
> > And when Pope Gregory fixed the calendar in 1582, he corrected it back
> > to the time of the Council of Nicea (325 AD).>>
> >
> > Could you please explain this in more depth? Thank you.
> >
>
> The Jullian Calender calls for a leap year every 4 years, making the
> year slightly too long.

too short on the long run.

> About 3 days evey 400 years. The Gregorian
> Calender corrects this by not having leap years for years divisable by
> 100 unless they are also divisable by 400. IE 1900 was NOT a leap
> year, 2000 was.
>
> The Christian formula for determining Easter depends on the date of
> the spring equanox. The slipage in the Jullian calender caused the
> Spring Equanox to fall back from March 25th to March 21st by the time
> of the Council of Nicea, so the Catholic church used March 21st as the
> date for determing Easter. (The first Sunday after the first full moon
> occuring after the equanox)
>
> By the time of Pope Gregory the equanox was occuring on March 11th,
> resulting Easter being celebrated on the wrong day if the Full Moon
> occured between the 11th and the 21st.
>
> The reform only addressed the needs of the Christian church by
> correcting the calendar back to 325 CE. It did not address the 4 day
> error that crept in between the time of Julius Caesar and Nicea.
>
> My personal feeling is that because of this 4 day error that was not
> corrected by the Gregroian reform we are celebrating some of our rites
> 4 days later than we should be. December 25th was the date of the
> winter soltice 2100 years ago so we would be more correct if we
> celebrated Sol Invictus on the 21st (the soltice under the current
> calendar) rather than the Julian date of December 25th.
>

I reached the same conclusions as you,
but I am really wondering: Mitraism certainly placed the birth of Mithra
on the day of the winter solstice, if by 325AD this was misplaced by 3
days does this mean that the date was already choosen in the Roman
Calendar by Caesar's time ? This would show not only an early
introduction of Mithraism in the Roman World but also a continuity from
this early introduction (by the Cilician Pirates around that time) of a
roman version of mithraism. The Persian calendar was not the Julian one
and the dates should have evolved differently in Persia and Rome meaning
that already in the 2nd century roman mithraists and persian mithraists
were celebrating mithrs birth on different days.

Is this consistent with a strong persian influence on the spread of
mithraism through the roman empire? I don t think so.


Manius Villius Limitanus

Subject:	[novaroma] Returning to the Republic
From:	Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@-------->
Date:	Tue, 02 Oct 2001 17:22:12 -0400

Salvete cives et amici,

Well, since I last posted a message much has changed in the world with the
events on September 11. I express my sincerest sympathies for those who
where touched by this evil event on a personal level. May we all be strong
during these times of sorrow.

As for my absence, I am very sorry if it interfered with any of my duties. I
apologise for disappearing with out letting my fellow citizens know. Life as
been quite hectic for me and I have been swamped with work and many other
problems that had to be addressed. Then there was the terrorist events. I
just needed a vacation from the res publica. Seeing that things are finally
settling down for me, I shall now hopefully get back to being a regular
citizen and catch up on my duties for my provincia.

It is great to be back, I look forward to getting back into rhythm of
things.


"Quamquam cupido sis delictum ab sui crebro suum mater ab vitualis"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"

--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia

Canada Orientalis Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/canorien

Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--