| Subject: |
Re: AW: [novaroma] New Topic. |
| From: |
Marcus Longinius <irminius@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 19 Oct 2001 06:23:30 -0700 (PDT) |
|
Ave
Most likly Late republic to early Empire Lorica
segmentata would be real hot Here in Houston .
Vale
M. Irminius Longinus
--- solinvictus <caiustarquitius@--------> wrote:
> Ave!
> Good luck for your plans. Which period will be
> covered by your troop?
>
> Bonis nocet, qui malis parcit.
>
> Caius Tarquitius Saturninus
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Marcus Longinius [mailto:irminius@--------]
> Gesendet: Freitag, 19. Oktober 2001 03:32
> An: novaroma@--------
> Betreff: Re: [novaroma] New Topic.
>
>
> Salve,
> We are trying to start a Legion here in the Houston
> area.We will be oganized with the Legio manned by NR
> citizens and the Auxilia manned by non-citizens.We
> will also have a pay scale using NR coins this adds
> something to the whole affair.
> Vale
> M.Irminius Longinus
> --- solinvictus <caiustarquitius@--------> wrote:
> > Salve, omnes.
> > As suggested, I try to create a non-war topic.
> >
> > If there are any people present out of the
> > reenactment scene, to which I
> > belong myself, I`d like to know from these where,
> in
> > their opinion, lies the
> > sense in reenacting. Furthermore I´d be interested
> > in
> > military-tunic-colour-choice of most groups. Why?
> > and where are the sources?
> > Of course everybody who is not a reenactor is
> > invited to join the possibly
> > evolving discussion.
> > Valete.
> >
> > Bonis nocet, qui malis parcit.
> >
> > Caius Tarquitius Saturninus
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
> http://personals.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
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Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
http://personals.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
RE: [novaroma] Market Day chat: 26 October |
| From: |
"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 19 Oct 2001 22:22:14 -0400 |
|
Salvete;
I think this is a wonderful idea! I hope we'll have a big turn-out. Thanks
for reviving the tradition, Marcus Octavius.
Valete,
Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marcus Octavius Germanicus [mailto:haase@--------]
> Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 4:09 PM
> To: novaroma@--------
> Subject: [novaroma] Market Day chat: 26 October
>
>
>
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> A few years ago, we had a tradition of public chats on "Market Days",
> which occurred once every nundinium.
>
> In the past year, attendance at chats has become more sporadic, and now
> seems to have nearly died out. The new chat system, which I created a
> few months ago, was well-liked at first; but has been little-used since.
> If we start using it regularly again, then I'll try to work on the program
> more often, and add requested features to it.
>
> I'd like to revive the tradition of Market Day chats. Easy identification
> of such days was one of my reasons for creating the Calendar tool a few
> weeks ago. You can view the Nova Roma Calendar at:
> http://www.novaroma.org/bin/calendar/cview
> ...and, in it, you'll see that every eighth day (or ninth day, using the
> ancient counting method) is designated as a "Market Day". (As a baseline
> for this calculation we used pridie Kal. Mart 2751).
>
> The next Market Day is 26 October 2001, a Friday. I invite all to join
> in the public chat on that day.
>
> The proposed times for Market Day chats:
> If on a saturday or sunday, one session, beginning at:
> 8pm Roma = 7pm UK = 1pm US/Central = 11am US/Pacific
> If on a weekday, two sessions, one for Europe and one for Americas:
> I. 8pm Roma = 7pm UK
> II. 8pm US/Central = 6pm US/Pacific
>
> Thus, next friday, 26 October, I invite all interested citizens to come
> to http://www.novaroma.org/bin/chat/chat at either 8pm Roman time or
> 8pm US/Central time (or both, for those lucky enough to work at home
> or not need sleep!)
>
> Valete,
> Octavius.
>
> --
> M. Octavius Germanicus
> Propraetor, Lacus Magni
> Curator Araneum et Senator
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Market Day chat: 26 October |
| From: |
Amulius Claudius Petrus <pkkt@--------> |
| Date: |
Fri, 19 Oct 2001 23:45:31 -0400 |
|
Salvete cives et amici,
The purpose behind the Market Days tradition is one that I support. Although
I refrain from taking part because of the unfriendly system the current HTML
chat uses. By implementing a Java based chat I think you will find a lot
more participation. This way we can talk to each other "real time" and
without the constant nuisance of refreshing the screen every few seconds.
Now I know this has not been done as of yet because the possibility of some
users not having a browser that can support Java. Seeing that new versions
of internet browsers are free I think it is safe to say almost all citizens
could take advantage of this new feature. Although even if citizens find
this unreasonable it would be nice to have the option.
I would love to take part in a Market Day chat, although until a better form
of communication is available this list seems to out weigh the advantages of
a HTML chat by far.
If citizens are curious of what a Java chat would be like take at look at
the provincial Java chat at the website for Canada Oreintalis provincia at
http://www.freehost.nu/members/canorien.
Valete,
"Quamquam cupido sis delictum ab sui crebro sum mater ab vitualis"
"Though ambition may be a fault in itself it is often the mother of virtues"
--
Amulius Claudius Petrus
Provincia Legatus Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Canada Orientalis
Retarius Officium Gens Claudia
Canada Orientalis Provincia
Canada Orientalis Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/canorien
Gens Claudia Website:
www.freehost.nu/members/gensclaudia/
--
>Marcus Octavius Germanicus at haase@-------- wrote:
>
> A few years ago, we had a tradition of public chats on "Market Days",
> which occurred once every nundinium.
>
> In the past year, attendance at chats has become more sporadic, and now
> seems to have nearly died out. The new chat system, which I created a
> few months ago, was well-liked at first; but has been little-used since.
> If we start using it regularly again, then I'll try to work on the program
> more often, and add requested features to it.
|
| Subject: |
Re: AW: [novaroma] New Topic. |
| From: |
caiustarquitius@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 20 Oct 2001 12:51:00 +0200 (MEST) |
|
Ave!
You mean it wold be to hot to wear them or do you mean they would be quite
cool? What IMO is a pity, that almost all groups cover that period. In whole
europe there are only two small groups covering the middle imperial period.
Maybe that`s because of the fact that most books one can get are about the
early imperial period?
Vale.
Bonis nocet, qui malis parcit.
Caius Tarquitius Saturninus
> Ave
> Most likly Late republic to early Empire Lorica
> segmentata would be real hot Here in Houston .
> Vale
> M. Irminius Longinus
> --- solinvictus <caiustarquitius@--------> wrote:
> > Ave!
> > Good luck for your plans. Which period will be
> > covered by your troop?
> >
> > Bonis nocet, qui malis parcit.
> >
> > Caius Tarquitius Saturninus
> >
> >
> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: Marcus Longinius [mailto:irminius@--------]
> > Gesendet: Freitag, 19. Oktober 2001 03:32
> > An: novaroma@--------
> > Betreff: Re: [novaroma] New Topic.
> >
> >
> > Salve,
> > We are trying to start a Legion here in the Houston
> > area.We will be oganized with the Legio manned by NR
> > citizens and the Auxilia manned by non-citizens.We
> > will also have a pay scale using NR coins this adds
> > something to the whole affair.
> > Vale
> > M.Irminius Longinus
> > --- solinvictus <caiustarquitius@--------> wrote:
> > > Salve, omnes.
> > > As suggested, I try to create a non-war topic.
> > >
> > > If there are any people present out of the
> > > reenactment scene, to which I
> > > belong myself, I`d like to know from these where,
> > in
> > > their opinion, lies the
> > > sense in reenacting. Furthermore I´d be interested
> > > in
> > > military-tunic-colour-choice of most groups. Why?
> > > and where are the sources?
> > > Of course everybody who is not a reenactor is
> > > invited to join the possibly
> > > evolving discussion.
> > > Valete.
> > >
> > > Bonis nocet, qui malis parcit.
> > >
> > > Caius Tarquitius Saturninus
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
> > http://personals.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
> http://personals.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
--
GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet.
http://www.gmx.net
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Desapointment with my fellow citizens/condoleance to the afghans |
| From: |
trog99@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 20 Oct 2001 11:51:59 -0000 |
|
--- In novaroma@--------, "G. Etcheverius Burdigalus" <burdigalus@-------->
wrote:
> Salvete,
> Pompeia Cornelia, I have thought long and hard about
> your response and while I understand where you are
> coming from I withdraw nothing.
> The action presently engaged in by the western nations
> will cause terror but that is not the same thing as
> engaging in terrorism. Our forces are not engaged in a
> wholesale slaughter of Aphgani civilians. The true
> terrorists are engaged in the intentional slaughter of
> our civilians. Painting those who have in past wars,
> are now engaged in a war and will in the future fight
> in wars for us as terrorists is an insult to great to
> suffer silently.
> That Aphgani civilians are being killed is both true
> and tragic and cannot be ignored or passed off as just
> the normal "collateral damage" of warfare. It is not
> being fobbed off as such. Our forces, given the
> technology they have at their disposal are doing their
> very very best they can to make sure that they don't
> kill innocent people. But mistakes have been made and
> will be made, and the technology isn't perfect so
> innocents will be killed accidentally. Nobody is more
> horrified by that than the people who have the
> unfortunate duty to see the results of those
> accidents. That does not in any way equate to the act
> of a terrorist. Even in criminal law intent is a
> considerable factor in determining the severity of a
> crime.
> Witnessing the murder of women and children and not
> being allowed by my ROE to intervene has built a deep
> hatred and heartfelt, life-long disgust for
> terrorists.
POMPEIA RESPONDEO: If you examine my orginal post, I was not arguing
the above issues. I agree with your appraisal, more or less. And, I
believe I have said that I do not always agree with Limitanus. I was
the first individual to respond to his original post under this
thread, and clearly, I am opposed to his analysis.
But, however, and notwithstanding: Disagreeing with someone's view,
regardless of how passionately you are so engaged, does not justify
personal defamation of someone else's personal character and
qualifications. This was the crux of my post to you, not the issues of
the war per se.
Speaking of equal "censorship", all citizens are given the same
treatment with respect to list guidelines. The post of yours
inadvertently appeared. I wanted you and others to know that such a
public derrogatory and personal appraisal on your part of Citizen
Limitanus
or *anyone* is not, in my view, virtuous or a shining example of how
we should conduct ourselves here in the forum.
Let's talk "issues", not personalities, to put *my concern* in
language of brevity.
This is for clarification, and not to breed animosity between you and
me.
For the record: I do not consider
> Limitanus a terrorist or a supporter of Osama's hord.
> Having worn a uniform I find statements insinuating
> that those who are presently wearing a uniform and are
> engaged in a war to rid the world, at least in part,
> of terrorists are themselves terrorists
> extraordinarily mean, insulting and just plain
> foolish.
> I would suggest that censoring of submissions should
> be applied to both sides of this argument equally. As
> a matter of fact, I would like to suggest that any
> posts on the subject of this war be rejected to avoid
> further conflict on this list.
>
> Vale,
> Burdigalus
>
> --- trog99@-------- wrote:
> >
> >
> > Salvete:
> >
> > I do not believe citizen Limitanus to be a waste of
> > space or a human
> > joke.
> >
> > The man is a professor of Chemistry which hardly
> > relegates him to a
> > jester or a mental midget.
> >
> > I do NOT always agree with him, and some times I've
> > said" "one of
> > these days Mani........to the MOON!!!!!!!........"
> >
> > I do not ever want to personal "authority" or lack
> > of humility to
> > demean a person's personal character, and to decide
> > that they are a
> > "human joke". Citizen Limitanus is a citizen of
> > Nova Roma as we all
> > are, and is justly entitled to basic human
> > courtesies.
> >
> > "Do unto others as you would have them do unto
> > you".....Confusious,
> > Aristotle, Jesus
> >
> > My apologies to the populace of Nova
> > Roma...sometimes our office makes
> > mistakes and lets posts go through in error, when
> > they are intended
> > otherwise. There have been a 'ton' of posts up for
> > moderation in the
> > past few days.
> >
> > Bene valete,
> > Pompeia Cornelia
> > Scriba Curatrix Sermonis
> >
> > In novaroma@--------, "G. Etcheverius Burdigalus"
> > <burdigalus@-------->
> > wrote:
> > > Salve Omnes,
> > > One of the truest measures of a free society is
> > its
> > > tolerance for opposing views and unfortunately
> > that
> > > also includes tolerance for mental-midgets like
> > the
> > > one who originated this thread.
> > > As much of a human joke as this person is, he is
> > one
> > > of us. I wouldn't like to see him banished or
> > muzzled.
> > > Not for his sake but for ours, for what we do to
> > him
> > > we inevitably risk happening to us in the future.
> > As
> > > an ex-serviceman his statements angered me to the
> > > extreme. And for the most part the responses
> > already
> > > given on this list I am 100% in agreement
> > emotionally.
> > > But that is giving him too much credence in my
> > life
> > > both as a Canadian ex-serviceman and a Nova Roman.
> >
> > > Perhaps we could take up a collection and buy him
> > a
> > > jester's outfit that he can dress in the macro
> > world
> > > as he lives in Nova Roma - as a fool.
> > > Better yet, the Senate could take the
> > opportunity to
> > > act in a very traditional way and vote him an
> > agnomen.
> > > Might I suggest "Stultus"? What better way to
> > > acknowledge his "importance" to Nova Roma?
> > >
> > > Valete,
> > > Burdigalus
> > >
> > > --- CJ Sitter <otto_von_sitter@--------> wrote:
> > > > My take on this is just that this guylikes to
> > make
> > > > us mad every
> > > > once in a while when things slow down a bit. I
> > > > still remember
> > > > back when he said the press was showing
> > Pakistanians
> > > >
> > > > cheering at US retaking Kuait instead of at the
> > > > destruction of the
> > > > WTC. I agree with our Consul and the several
> > others
> > > > that are
> > > > calling for this man's dismissal. Someone that
> > > > enjoys wreaking
> > > > havok does not deserve the privilige to be
> > called a
> > > > citizen of New
> > > > Rome.
> > > >
> > > > Marcus Cornelius Tiberius
> > > >
> > > > --- In novaroma@--------, Michel Loos <loos@q...>
> > wrote:
> > > > > Salvete,
> > > > >
> > > > > one week of continued terrorist attacks
> > against
> > > > one of the
> > > > poorest
> > > > > country in the world, hundreds of innocents
> > dead
> > > > among them
> > > > several
> > > > > world citizens probably thousands of
> > combatants.
> > > > >
> > > > > And here in NovaRoma not one voice of
> > condoleances
> > > > for the
> > > > deads
> > > > > not one voice of condennation of this
> > terrorist
> > > > attack by the USA
> > > > and
> > > > > the UK.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am really desappointed by my fellow
> > concitizens
> > > > in
> > > > NovaRoma (and
> > > > > enjoyed by my fellow brazilians).
> > > > >
> > > > > I hereby express my condoleance to the Afghans
> > and
> > > > all
> > > > humans that were
> > > > > attacked by this new vague of state terrorism.
> > I
> > > > hereby
> > > > condemn the
> > > > > state terrorism at act.
> > > > >
> > > > > Vale,
> > > > >
> > > > > Manius Villius Limitanus
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
> > > http://personals.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
> http://personals.yahoo.com
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Rome today |
| From: |
"Jozef Duhacek" <coriolanus@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 20 Oct 2001 16:12:51 -0000 |
|
I agree with Sulla, that answer depends on how Rome would have
evolved.
I was often thinkig and talking about this qestions with my friends
and here are some important points that embranched
"what-if" scenarios we've created:
Rome was never divided into western and eastern part.
Rome never accepted Christians
Rome accepted christians but not as a state religion
Western empire was strong to defend italian borders against all
middle age agressors.
Constantine never move Rome to Byzantium
Eastern part destroyed islamic revolution in the begining.
Great schism in church was never occured.
Roman Africa was never defeated by barbarians
Legions was not created from barbarians like in late empires but
still from citizens.
Citizenship was not spread to everyone.
Mohamed was never born or killed on his escape to Meddina.
and many more. But there are only what - if questions.
Coriolanus
--- In novaroma@--------, "L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@e...>
wrote:
> Ave,
>
> Let me state this is a very interesting series of questions.
Definately something to ponder about. However, I am sure most of our
answers will vary depending on how must we feel Rome would have
evolved. If there are those of us who feel Rome would have strived
to maintain the old ways, then our conclusions will be different. If
there are those of us who believe Rome would have maintained the
trend towards orientalism (a la the Byzantine culture) then their
hypothesis will shape their conclusion. If there are those of us who
believe Rome would developed in the trend of Western States
(following a style similar to the Middle ages and the eventually
culture and society of divine right of kings and eventual
democracies) then their views will influence their conclusions.
However, we cannot disregard other potential influences such as the
Islamic explosion in the 7th century, but interesting questions do
arise. Such as, is the Eastern (if there is an Eastern) Roman Empire
overrun? This type of question raises alot of what ifs.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michael Loughlin
> To: novaroma@--------
> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 11:09 PM
> Subject: [novaroma] Rome today
>
>
> Ave,
> Today one of my classes at school went on this
> very boring field trip to this art museum in
> massachusetts...DeCordova (I think)...I'm not an art
> person...but being long and boring I had some time to
> think to myself...so here's what I was wondering and
> propose as a new topic of discussion to move away from
> the Bin Laden/Afghanistan argument:
> In its time Rome, both Republic and Imperial,
> were mighty from my point of view. What do you think
> it would be like today? Think of every aspect of life
> social, political and military. Would the empire
> still be as glorious as it was as we know it? Would
> there military be as dominating as it once was? Would
> the imperial approach to politics have lasted or would
> it have withdrawn back to republican politics? What
> effect would globalization have had on Rome? Do you
> think in its vastness its culture would have been
> corrupted by the international influence or would it
> have retained its culture? How do you think the
> paganistic religion have been welcomed in present
> times? We've had so much persecution of pagans
> throughout the past few centuries what effect would
> those anti-pagan crusades have had on Rome?
> Sorry if I'm digging up old discussions but I was
> bored and thought I'd get others opinions/feelings on
> the issue and see how they compare with mine.
> vale,
> Quintus Cornelius Caesar
>
> __________________________________________________
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>
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Service.
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>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Reconstruction/New Topic. |
| From: |
caiustarquitius@-------- |
| Date: |
Sat, 20 Oct 2001 16:37:47 +0200 (MEST) |
|
Errr....? We have not a single evidence. If you go after what looks neater,
then please don`t go into public, or if you do, tell spectators that what you
do is WRONG, and that you do it, because you think it looks better.
Actually, from the 1st century on the tunics were not plain white, but ususally had
clavi of almosty any colour. Wearing coloured tunics because other groups do
it, or because there are some reconstruction-drawings in books, which suggest
that, because the same mistake went on and on those books, without ever
someone thinking for a second about it, has IMO nothing to do with reenactment.
That is Fantasy. For myself, I would prefer a colourerd tunic aswell. But
obviously they were only worn by slaves and barbarians and musicians/theatre
people. If you reenact a legionary, face grim reality.
Vale!
Bonis nocet, qui malis parcit.
Caius Tarquitius Saturninus
> I know it isn't exactly sticking with continuity and historical
> accurracy and all that, but in my humble opinion, I tend to think
> the red or blue tunics look better than just a plain white one. At
> least that's what I think.
>
> Marcus Cornelius Tiberius
>
> --- In novaroma@--------, "solinvictus" <caiustarquitius@g...> wrote:
> > Salve, omnes!
> >
> > The sense of reenactment here is pretty much the same,
> although some people
> > have problems to differ between reenactment and
> experimental archaeology,
> > which results in dozens of "archeologists" and not a noticeable
> larger
> > amount or quality of publications concerning the topic, than
> one had before
> > their arrival. I have the problem that, what I see throughout the
> "living
> > history" conventions and the Internet is regularly not even close
> to
> > reconstruction.
> > Thus, people going to conventions, museums and "living
> history" events
> > usually get a WRONG picture. Mainly it`s the detail. But many
> details
> > constitute the whole.
> >
> > The main problem then again is the question after the sense. If
> reenactors
> > are grosso modo not able to show at least the things we know
> exactly in a
> > correct manner, i.e. RECONSTRUCTED, wouldn`t it be far
> better to let it be?
> > In Vetera/Xanten, this summer, people ("Romans") were
> mocking about the
> > military in the Gladiator movie. Their own equipment was not
> far away from
> > the one in the movie, IMO.
> > If being a member of such a group is in the cause of fun, O.K.
> But please
> > not in the public.
> > If it is because of "teaching", then please only with
> RECONSTRUCTED
> > equipment....
> >
> > An example for the readers, which are not into the subject. In
> several
> > northern german bog-deposits roman military cloaks
> (sagum,sg.)were found,
> > completely preserved. They are brilliantly published (Schlabof,
> > Eisenzeitliche Textilfunde o.ä.). We know the material, the type
> of fabric,
> > we know the density and the thickness of the threads, and we
> know the
> > colours. Even the exact size. Such a cloak can be
> reconstructed, what would
> > cost about $2000+. OR you can go to the next cloth-shop and
> buy some tweed
> > and take it as a cloak. That`s maybe $100. So far, so good, but
> even the
> > smallest child could see the difference.
> >
> > Is it, because people look into books, see nice pictures and
> build sthg that
> > slightly resembles them?
> >
> > The reconstruction of my own equipment began with shoes,
> tunic, cingulum,
> > fibula, cloak. With these things and a hasta I was able to go to
> any
> > convention or museum without getting red (my face, not my
> tunic) if someone
> > with a better knowledge than general would be present. I had
> to pay for this
> > equipment more than most reenactors pay for their complete
> armoury (i.e.
> > helmet, lorica, shield, sword etc.). Of course I have to be a
> "light"
> > infantryman, but that can change. If someone bought a cheap,
> bad helmet, all
> > he has is a cheap, bad helmet. (Available in the Internet, if s.o.
> is
> > intersted. Made in India.)
> >
> > I do not want to say that what I do is great, and what others do
> not. I´d
> > rather like to find out what the typical nova roman would say is
> the better
> > way in his/her opinion, and what other reenactors think about it.
> >
> > @ Tiberius Annaeus Otho: I asked the question about tunic
> colour, because
> > most reenactment groups wear red tunics, what the romans
> obviously did not.
> > ( If you don`t belive ME ask Peter Conolly). From the republic
> on, as can be
> > seen on the Aemilius Paulus Monument where colours are left,
> up to late
> > antiquity the roman soldiers wear white tunics, with or without
> clavi,
> > depending on the period. Hundreds of fragments of tunics and
> several
> > complete ones have been found in Egypt, Syria, Lebanon,
> Jordania, the
> > earliest from 1st century A.D. They are ALL white. With a
> relatively new
> > method colours on stone monuments can be made visible.
> Not a single
> > non-white soldier-tunic has been found in this way. So I say: If
> we have all
> > this stuff, why make red (or blue, excuse me) tunics? O.K. it
> would be
> > difficult to prove that there had never been some. But why not
> taking the
> > material we have? ( Besides, I think I have seen your group
> before. You have
> > those tridents on your shield, don`t you? Those blue tunics
> look good, no
> > question, but.... Your shield desingns are great.)
> >
> > Once again, I do not want to offend people, I just want to find
> out what you
> > all think.
> > In addition, as it belongs to this topic in some way... what do
> people think
> > should a NR building or vicus be like? Reconstructed?
> Gladiator Movie? Or
> > modern looking like ancient (NRgrunge)? Or sthg else...?
> >
> > Valete!
> >
> > Bonis nocet, qui malis parcit.
> >
> > Caius Tarquitius Saturninus
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: ti--------us.ann@-------- [mailto:ti--------us.ann@--------]
> > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 18. Oktober 2001 21:52
> > An: novaroma@--------
> > Betreff: RE: [novaroma] New Topic.
> >
> >
> > Our swiss legion, legio XI Claudia Pia Fidelis is clad in dark
> blue, because
> > it is often taken to be the color of Fides. Furthermore we have
> written
> > data, that Neptune was the patron God of this legion and water
> is also blue.
> >
> > For us here in Switzerland, the sense in reenactment is, trying
> to show
> > the public and the schools, etc. what it could have been like.
> Furthermore
> > it is also a means for us students to get into our studies
> instead of
> > staying
> > on top of them.
> >
> > Vale, Tiberius Annaeus Otho
> >
> > -- Original-Nachricht --
> >
> > >Salve, omnes.
> > >As suggested, I try to create a non-war topic.
> > >
> > >If there are any people present out of the reenactment scene,
> to which
> > I
> > >belong myself, I`d like to know from these where, in their
> opinion, lies
> > >the
> > >sense in reenacting. Furthermore I´d be interested in
> > >military-tunic-colour-choice of most groups. Why? and where
> are the
> > sources?
> > >Of course everybody who is not a reenactor is invited to join
> the possibly
> > >evolving discussion.
> > >Valete.
> > >
> > >Bonis nocet, qui malis parcit.
> > >
> > >Caius Tarquitius Saturninus
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > E-Mail for everyone! http://www.bluemail.ch/ powered by
> Bluewin!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
--
GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet.
http://www.gmx.net
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] Re: Rome today |
| From: |
Michel Loos <loos@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 20 Oct 2001 14:48:46 -0200 (BRST) |
|
On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Jozef Duhacek wrote:
>
> I agree with Sulla, that answer depends on how Rome would have
> evolved.
>
> I was often thinkig and talking about this qestions with my friends
> and here are some important points that embranched
> "what-if" scenarios we've created:
Those what ifs are more interresting as the original question because we
need specific points of divergence from our history.
>
> Rome was never divided into western and eastern part.
Rome was never divided, just the rulers were different, the borders kept
on moving through history.
> Rome never accepted Christians
Did Rome accept christians? Make it Jesus was unable to walk on water and
died trying -> no christians. In my opinion Rome would have lasted much
longer under the resulting mithraic official cult and without the
christianisation of the invading barbars.
> Rome accepted christians but not as a state religion
Rome would have fallen in the 4th century: christians were conscencious
objectors before christianism became the official religion, invadings
barbars would have been recognized is liberators by the roman christians
> Western empire was strong to defend italian borders against all
> middle age agressors.
No modification, a Rome-city or Roman Italy surviving along the lines of
the finishing CByzantine Empire would not have changed significantly
European history.
> Constantine never move Rome to Byzantium
No significative change, late empire capitals were spread all over the
empire, they were just the residence of the emperor. The senate had no
more power at that time and the duplication of the senate did n t change
anything.
> Eastern part destroyed islamic revolution in the begining.
This happened well outside of the roman border no way could have the
Empire done that.
> Great schism in church was never occured.
> Roman Africa was never defeated by barbarians
Would have been destroyed by Islam.
> Legions was not created from barbarians like in late empires but
> still from citizens.
Empire overrun in the short term. Barbarians were recruted because there
were not enough citizens volunteering.
> Citizenship was not spread to everyone.
No change since citizenship was sort of empty when it was finally given to
every one. A little less revenue to the state (from the heritage taxes).
Manius Villius Limitanus
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Roman attitude towards history |
| From: |
"Caius Puteus Germanicus" <puteus@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 20 Oct 2001 19:21:49 +0200 |
|
Ave!
I want to react on two topics: "historical reenactment" and "Rome today". In both articles people talk about theit views on history. Let me explain mine, an attempt to understand the antique one.
First of all: reenactment, meaning "living" history certainly is not wrong. Even if it also has some historical failures in it (rituals, reenactment groups, historical movies etc.). Romans used their "history" in everydays life too. The story about Romulus and Remus, and the myth of Aeneas for ex. The myth of Aeneas was an attempt to unify the Greek and Roman history, which only became important when Rome became a big player in Greek politics. Even though the myths were written by the hand of several different Romans and told by several generations, they all had certain points in common. They may have differed in detail, but that was no problem for the Roman society. I conclude that reenactment etc. is not a problem from the Roman point of view.
Secondly, I think the "history of If" is nevertheless a problem from the Roman point of view. That is not living history, but just a phantasy. It serves no purpose of increasing patriottism. I suppose it is not useful then, neither from the Roman point of view, neither from the point of view of present day historians. As you know, our Roman friends were a very practical people, who lacked unuseful activities...
I hope I didn't hurt anybody's feelings by stating this point of view!
In Pace Deorum,
C. Putei Germanicus
----- Original Message -----
From: Jozef Duhacek
To: novaroma@--------
Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 6:12 PM
Subject: [novaroma] Re: Rome today
I agree with Sulla, that answer depends on how Rome would have
evolved.
I was often thinkig and talking about this qestions with my friends
and here are some important points that embranched
"what-if" scenarios we've created:
Rome was never divided into western and eastern part.
Rome never accepted Christians
Rome accepted christians but not as a state religion
Western empire was strong to defend italian borders against all
middle age agressors.
Constantine never move Rome to Byzantium
Eastern part destroyed islamic revolution in the begining.
Great schism in church was never occured.
Roman Africa was never defeated by barbarians
Legions was not created from barbarians like in late empires but
still from citizens.
Citizenship was not spread to everyone.
Mohamed was never born or killed on his escape to Meddina.
and many more. But there are only what - if questions.
Coriolanus
--- In novaroma@--------, "L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@e...>
wrote:
> Ave,
>
> Let me state this is a very interesting series of questions.
Definately something to ponder about. However, I am sure most of our
answers will vary depending on how must we feel Rome would have
evolved. If there are those of us who feel Rome would have strived
to maintain the old ways, then our conclusions will be different. If
there are those of us who believe Rome would have maintained the
trend towards orientalism (a la the Byzantine culture) then their
hypothesis will shape their conclusion. If there are those of us who
believe Rome would developed in the trend of Western States
(following a style similar to the Middle ages and the eventually
culture and society of divine right of kings and eventual
democracies) then their views will influence their conclusions.
However, we cannot disregard other potential influences such as the
Islamic explosion in the 7th century, but interesting questions do
arise. Such as, is the Eastern (if there is an Eastern) Roman Empire
overrun? This type of question raises alot of what ifs.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michael Loughlin
> To: novaroma@--------
> Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 11:09 PM
> Subject: [novaroma] Rome today
>
>
> Ave,
> Today one of my classes at school went on this
> very boring field trip to this art museum in
> massachusetts...DeCordova (I think)...I'm not an art
> person...but being long and boring I had some time to
> think to myself...so here's what I was wondering and
> propose as a new topic of discussion to move away from
> the Bin Laden/Afghanistan argument:
> In its time Rome, both Republic and Imperial,
> were mighty from my point of view. What do you think
> it would be like today? Think of every aspect of life
> social, political and military. Would the empire
> still be as glorious as it was as we know it? Would
> there military be as dominating as it once was? Would
> the imperial approach to politics have lasted or would
> it have withdrawn back to republican politics? What
> effect would globalization have had on Rome? Do you
> think in its vastness its culture would have been
> corrupted by the international influence or would it
> have retained its culture? How do you think the
> paganistic religion have been welcomed in present
> times? We've had so much persecution of pagans
> throughout the past few centuries what effect would
> those anti-pagan crusades have had on Rome?
> Sorry if I'm digging up old discussions but I was
> bored and thought I'd get others opinions/feelings on
> the issue and see how they compare with mine.
> vale,
> Quintus Cornelius Caesar
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
> http://personals.yahoo.com
>
|
| Subject: |
Re: [novaroma] New Topic. |
| From: |
"CJ Sitter" <otto_von_sitter@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 20 Oct 2001 19:00:43 -0000 |
|
I think it has more to do with that period being the "classical
time" and it has been romanticised so much in movies and
books, etc.
Marcus Cornelius Tiberius
--- In novaroma@--------, caiustarquitius@g... wrote:
> Ave!
> You mean it wold be to hot to wear them or do you mean they
would be quite
> cool? What IMO is a pity, that almost all groups cover that
period. In whole
> europe there are only two small groups covering the middle
imperial period.
> Maybe that`s because of the fact that most books one can get
are about the
> early imperial period?
>
> Vale.
>
> Bonis nocet, qui malis parcit.
>
> Caius Tarquitius Saturninus
>
>
>
> > Ave
> > Most likly Late republic to early Empire Lorica
> > segmentata would be real hot Here in Houston .
> > Vale
> > M. Irminius Longinus
&--------&----------- solinvictus <caiustarquitius@--------&--------wrote:
> > > Ave!
> > > Good luck for your plans. Which period will be
> > > covered by your troop?
> > >
> > > Bonis nocet, qui malis parcit.
> > >
> > > Caius Tarquitius Saturninus
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > Von: Marcus Longinius [mailto:irminius@--------]
> > > Gesendet: Freitag, 19. Oktober 2001 03:32
> > > An: novaroma@--------
> > > Betreff: Re: [novaroma] New Topic.
> > >
> > >
> > > Salve,
> > > We are trying to start a Legion here in the Houston
> > > area.We will be oganized with the Legio manned by NR
> > > citizens and the Auxilia manned by non-citizens.We
> > > will also have a pay scale using NR coins this adds
> > > something to the whole affair.
> > > Vale
> > > M.Irminius Longinus
&--------&--------&----------- solinvictus <caiustarquitius@--------&--------wrote:
> > > > Salve, omnes.
> > > > As suggested, I try to create a non-war topic.
> > > >
> > > > If there are any people present out of the
> > > > reenactment scene, to which I
> > > > belong myself, I`d like to know from these where,
> > > in
> > > > their opinion, lies the
> > > > sense in reenacting. Furthermore I´d be interested
> > > > in
> > > > military-tunic-colour-choice of most groups. Why?
> > > > and where are the sources?
> > > > Of course everybody who is not a reenactor is
> > > > invited to join the possibly
> > > > evolving discussion.
> > > > Valete.
> > > >
> > > > Bonis nocet, qui malis parcit.
> > > >
> > > > Caius Tarquitius Saturninus
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
__________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
> > > http://personals.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
__________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
> > http://personals.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
> --
> GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet.
> http://www.gmx.net
|
| Subject: |
[novaroma] Re: Rome today |
| From: |
"CJ Sitter" <otto_von_sitter@--------> |
| Date: |
Sat, 20 Oct 2001 19:07:00 -0000 |
|
I don't think Rome's fall had much to so with the Christians, but
more because Rome had grown so vast so that
communications were almost nonexhistant to the outermost
parts of the Empire and there was a lack of good soldiers, not to
mention the fact many of the government officials had grown
corrupt. If Rome had kept its size down to a more manageable
size and the government hadn't gone corrupt, who know's what
would have happened. I speculate that in that case Rome might
have been more of a western culture today, but only because of
Italy's geographic location. Sulla's right, too many ifs to play with.
Marcus Cornelius Tiberius
--- In novaroma@--------, "Jozef Duhacek" <coriolanus@c...> wrote:
>
> I agree with Sulla, that answer depends on how Rome would
have
> evolved.
>
> I was often thinkig and talking about this qestions with my
friends
> and here are some important points that embranched
> "what-if" scenarios we've created:
>
> Rome was never divided into western and eastern part.
> Rome never accepted Christians
> Rome accepted christians but not as a state religion
> Western empire was strong to defend italian borders against
all
> middle age agressors.
> Constantine never move Rome to Byzantium
> Eastern part destroyed islamic revolution in the begining.
> Great schism in church was never occured.
> Roman Africa was never defeated by barbarians
> Legions was not created from barbarians like in late empires
but
> still from citizens.
> Citizenship was not spread to everyone.
> Mohamed was never born or killed on his escape to Meddina.
>
> and many more. But there are only what - if questions.
>
>
>
> Coriolanus
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In novaroma@--------, "L. Cornelius Sulla Felix" <alexious@e...>
> wrote:
> > Ave,
> >
> > Let me state this is a very interesting series of questions.
> Definately something to ponder about. However, I am sure
most of our
> answers will vary depending on how must we feel Rome
would have
> evolved. If there are those of us who feel Rome would have
strived
> to maintain the old ways, then our conclusions will be different.
If
> there are those of us who believe Rome would have
maintained the
> trend towards orientalism (a la the Byzantine culture) then their
> hypothesis will shape their conclusion. If there are those of us
who
> believe Rome would developed in the trend of Western States
> (following a style similar to the Middle ages and the eventually
> culture and society of divine right of kings and eventual
> democracies) then their views will influence their conclusions.
> However, we cannot disregard other potential influences such
as the
> Islamic explosion in the 7th century, but interesting questions
do
> arise. Such as, is the Eastern (if there is an Eastern) Roman
Empire
> overrun? This type of question raises alot of what ifs.
> >
> > Respectfully,
> >
> > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Michael Loughlin
> > To: novaroma@--------
> > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 11:09 PM
> > Subject: [novaroma] Rome today
> >
> >
> > Ave,
> > Today one of my classes at school went on this
> > very boring field trip to this art museum in
> > massachusetts...DeCordova (I think)...I'm not an art
> > person...but being long and boring I had some time to
> > think to myself...so here's what I was wondering and
> > propose as a new topic of discussion to move away from
> > the Bin Laden/Afghanistan argument:
> > In its time Rome, both Republic and Imperial,
> > were mighty from my point of view. What do you think
> > it would be like today? Think of every aspect of life
> > social, political and military. Would the empire
> > still be as glorious as it was as we know it? Would
> > there military be as dominating as it once was? Would
> > the imperial approach to politics have lasted or would
> > it have withdrawn back to republican politics? What
> > effect would globalization have had on Rome? Do you
> > think in its vastness its culture would have been
> > corrupted by the international influence or would it
> > have retained its culture? How do you think the
> > paganistic religion have been welcomed in present
> > times? We've had so much persecution of pagans
> > throughout the past few centuries what effect would
> > those anti-pagan crusades have had on Rome?
> > Sorry if I'm digging up old discussions but I was
> > bored and thought I'd get others opinions/feelings on
> > the issue and see how they compare with mine.
> > vale,
> > Quintus Cornelius Caesar
> >
> >
__________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
> > http://personals.yahoo.com
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of
> Service.
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
