Forum Romanum


Subject:	[novaroma] Maximo gaudio te accipio. Welcome. Bienvenido Cnaeus Quintus Vulso
From:	danielovi@--------
Date:	Tue, 23 Oct 2001 00:20:32 -0000

Salve civis novus novaromanus provincić Argentinć Cnć Quinte Vulso
Maximo gaudio te accipio. Nunc tredecim cives argentini sumus. Te
gratulor O Cnć nam tu iam civis novaromanus argentinus es.
Cura ut valeas
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Propraetor provincialis Argentinae

Salve civis novus novaromanus provincić Argentinć Cnć Quinte Vulso.
Welcome!. Now we are 13 cives from Argentina. Congratulations Cnaeus
because you are already civis novaromanus argentinus.
Cura ut valeas
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Propraetor provincialis Argentinae

Salve civis novus novaromanus provincić Argentinć Cnć Quinte Vulso
Bienvenido!. Ahora somos 13 ciudadanos argentinos. Felicitaciones
Cnaeus por ser ya ciudadano novaromano argentino.
Cura ut valeas
Lucius Pompeius Octavianus
Propraetor provincialis Argentinae


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Reenactment
From:	Shane Evans <marcusafricanus@-------->
Date:	Mon, 22 Oct 2001 18:14:51 -0700 (PDT)

I also am a major reenactor. I do AWI British
Dragoons, Ancient Roman Republic, ACW Union Cavalry,
WW1 Austrian, and WW2 Waffen SS. I work a lot with
the American Legion,local schools, and the Ohio
Historical Society, to do displays, teach classes, and
as I like to say when dealing with WW2, "Educate the
stupid". I think when you actually don a period
outfit, wether it be civilian or military, you
surround yourself with little odds and ends, and
people doing the same thing, you learn an aspect of
history you cant get from a book.

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	[novaroma] Lorica Lacings and other miscellany
From:	"C. Minucius Hadrianus" <shinjikun@-------->
Date:	Tue, 23 Oct 2001 01:05:27 -0400

Salvete,

I was just wondering what any re-enactors here use for the front and rear
lacings/ties on their Lorica? I used rawhide shoe-laces just to make sure
mine fit, but I realize that they aren't really appropriate for re-enacting.
Any advice would be great! Also does anyone know a good source for authentic
leg greaves (of the type worn by a centurion mid to late 1st century) or
awards/award harnesses? Thanks!

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Legatus of Massachusetts
Nova Britannia Provincia
Legio VI Victrix

ICQ# 28924742

"Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum." - Vegetius

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[novaroma] Numa et Pythagoras
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@-------->
Date:	Tue, 23 Oct 2001 00:52:26 -0700

Avete Omnes

I have been reading this book that I borrowed from Praetor Q. Fabius
entitled, Studies in Greek Culture and Roman Policy. Its a very
interesting book/series of essays. The last chapter is entitled
Philosophy, Rhetoric and Roman Anxieties, and it is in this chapter I am
a bit confused. Basically, the section discusses how in the Late Mid
Republic (around 190 bce) certain government officials actually
conducted a book burning in regards to works that implied a connection
between Numa and Pythagoras. My first question is, why? Why did the
Romans make such a big deal of this? Second, while certain authors
(Cicero, Varro and others) recognize a chronological gap of about 150
years between Pythagoras and Numa.

Why would there be such a move by the Roman Government at the time to
try to cover up (by burning) any evidence that would show any type of
connection, between Numa and Pythagoras? I recognize that this is the
time of Cato the Censor, and generally a period where Rome reacted
against hellensitic influence but is this sufficent a reason for this
drastic action to occur?

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Numa et Pythagoras
From:	amg@--------
Date:	Tue, 23 Oct 2001 12:35:57 -0000

Salve amice censorque Sulla

It's very interesting what you report. I didn't know that there was
an hipothesis for a connection between Numa and Pythagoras... Though
it in fact makes all sense. As you may know, king Numa forbade blood
sacrifices, which is precisely a Pythagorean/Orphic practice as well
(besides not eating meat). The reason is that the Orphics believed
that a human soul could incarnate into an animal after being judged
in Hades in the afterlife. This process of death/rebirth would
continue until the soul was completely purified (in which case it
would live eternally in the Blessed Islands) or completely doomed (in
which case it would endure eternal punishment)...
As to the burning of books... Maybe the pontifices/senate of rome
wanted to eliminate any taboo towards blood sacrifice and eating
meat. In this way the practice of blood sacrifice was retaken.
So probably it was nothing against the Hellenic elements in general,
for the romans liked to be considered akin to the greeks.

Vale bene
Graecus

--- In novaroma@--------, Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@e...>
wrote:
> Avete Omnes
>
> I have been reading this book that I borrowed from Praetor Q. Fabius
> entitled, Studies in Greek Culture and Roman Policy. Its a very
> interesting book/series of essays. The last chapter is entitled
> Philosophy, Rhetoric and Roman Anxieties, and it is in this chapter
I am
> a bit confused. Basically, the section discusses how in the Late
Mid
> Republic (around 190 bce) certain government officials actually
> conducted a book burning in regards to works that implied a
connection
> between Numa and Pythagoras. My first question is, why? Why did
the
> Romans make such a big deal of this? Second, while certain authors
> (Cicero, Varro and others) recognize a chronological gap of about
150
> years between Pythagoras and Numa.
>
> Why would there be such a move by the Roman Government at the time
to
> try to cover up (by burning) any evidence that would show any type
of
> connection, between Numa and Pythagoras? I recognize that this is
the
> time of Cato the Censor, and generally a period where Rome reacted
> against hellensitic influence but is this sufficent a reason for
this
> drastic action to occur?
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix


Subject:	[novaroma] Comitia Centuriata Vote Results
From:	"Flavius Vedius Germanicus" <germanicus@-------->
Date:	Tue, 23 Oct 2001 08:42:56 -0400

Flavius Vedius Germanicus novaromanis S.P.D.

The final results of the recent vote in the Comitia Centuriata have been
reported by the Rogatores and are as follows:

In the vote on the Lex Vedia de Tribuni, 85 centuries voted in favor, 15
voted against, 87 failed to vote, and 6 abstained. Fewer than 97 centuries
having voted in favor of the measure, the lex does not pass.

In the vote on the Lex Vedia de Provinciis, 99 centuries voted in favor, 2
voted against, 87 failed to vote, and 5 abstained. More than 97 centuries
having voted in favor of the measure, the lex passes.

In the vote on the Lex Vedia de Liberus Civium, 96 centuries voted in favor,
7 voted against, 87 failed to vote, and 3 abstained. Fewer than 97 centuries
having voted in favor of the measure, the lex does not pass.

In the vote on the Lex Vedia de Correctione Incorporatonis, 98 centuries
voted in favor, 1 voted against, 87 failed to vote, and 7 abstained. More
than 97 centuries having voted in favor of the measure, the lex passes.

Those measures that passed will be presented to the Senate for ratification,
as required of all measures that seek to amend our Constitution.

I must, at this time, express my disgust with the fact that not one Citizen
in nearly half of our Centuries even bothered to cast a vote on these
matters, which dealt with amending our very Constitution itself! To every
Citizen who failed to vote, I say you should be ashamed of yourself. Thanks
to your apathy, my little daughter, Julia Vedia, will not be able to enjoy
the fruits of Citizenship.

Shame on you.

Valete,

Flavius Vedius Germanicus,
Consul


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Reenactment
From:	"Marc Sarault" <marc_sarault@-------->
Date:	Tue, 23 Oct 2001 03:34:14 +0000

Salvete Civis,

I enjoy reading about citizens wanting to make a positive contribution and
have fun doing it. I think that even with a problem of tunic colors, we can
still learn and keep discovering and perhaps one day stumble upon the right
answer.

I am still waiting for my citizenship and acceptance from the Paterfamilias,
but nevertheless have decided to take an active part in my personal growth
and enhancement with Nova Roma. So far so good, but I am one to stay
focused on Dies Antiquioris (priorities). I salute all those who invest
time, dedication, energy and money in something that often benefits those
around them even before themselves. And this is why I believe I will be
always glad to respond to topics such as this ones.

Since being on the subject of Legions. Anyone can tell me if there is one
in the Provincia Canada Orientalis.

Vita beata et Valetudo bona

Marcus
Marc Sarault
Provincia Canada Orientalis

>From: jmath669642reng@--------
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: novaroma@--------
>Subject: [novaroma] Reenactment
>Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 17:01:08 -0400 (EDT)
>
>Reenactment brings to the public the aniation of the ideas / artifacts
>that can be seen in museums. Museums are valuable places, where a great
>deal of information can be found, and where equipment can be viewed, and
>measured for reproduction.
>
>Reeneactment also gives people who are interested in such experiences
>the opportunity to live in some small way the experiences of those in
>the past.
>
>This second reason gives rise to the "education" of the general public,
>and should be done n a way that is accurate, and interesting. However,
>most reenactors do not have the funding necessary to weave a cloak the
>way it was done in early Rome, and others may not have the skill or the
>tools to prepare many of the required items needed for the reenactment.
>
>The too, there are those who will only use thoe things which have been
>found throgh archaeology, and there are those who believe that if the
>materials, technology, and skills were available in the period being
>reenacted that the people of that time, would have been much quicker to
>use thos kinds of ideas, based on thier needs that we are in the present
>day. It is almost a certainty, that we do not have a clear picture of
>every type of furniture, that every skilled carpenter ever built during
>the period that we reenact, as an example. Any other area of endeavor
>could use the same kind of logic.
>
>In my reenactment, I try very hard to be as authentic as I am able,
>considering cost, transport, and my personal needs. I use 1st person
>style of responses, durig much of my response to the public, but not
>100% since it can be and is often confusing to those not familiar with
>such.
>
>I reenact in several different periods (Early Roman Empire Gladitorial
>School, French and Indian War--1748--1752 /// American Revolutionary
>War--1776-1783 /// American Civil War--1861-1865). I enjoy an excellent
>relationship with my reenactment comrades, and I have been invited by
>several roundtables and historical societies to make presentations, and
>inolve myself with thier efforts both as an period Engineer and
>Administrative (Adjutant) Staff Officer. I have never attended an event
>where I was not invited to return. I am not sure if any of the above
>coments meets your standards, but my reenactment efforts seem to meet
>both mine and others and so I am content with what I do.
>
>In regard to the color of tunics, I believe the VIth Legion in New York
>wears a primrose colored tunic (very light yellow), and as a Senator, I
>wear a white linen tunic under my toga. The XXIVth Legion wears white
>tunics.
>
>I do however, use a canvas tent. The leather tents are very expensive
>and requires special care that I cannot provide. The Gladitorial School
>is in the process of purchasing one of the tents that was used in the
>movie "Gladiator" and my fly is similar in size to a ships sail, which
>was probably made from Linen and waterproofed with beeswax and a paint
>solution.
>
>My camp furniture is a very simplistic style of folding table and and
>table extension with a simplistic two piece chair with folding stools
>and chests for guests to sit on with folded robes for padding and
>covered with animal hides. The tables are covered with brocaded
>coverings that come down to the ground level.
>
>Food, Utensils, and dishes follow the style found in a variety of books,
>but are on the side of being sturdy and not so fancy, silver, brass,
>pewter, or wood. Gold is beyond my budget as well!!! (Grin!!!).
>
>I act as a narrator for the gladitorial bouts, and as a demonstrtor with
>the wooden practice weapons of the school. I also have papyrus
>materials on which I record the bouts, contracts, and keep records of
>the school supplies and daily activities. I am working on making some
>wax tablets, and some thin "wooden page" books as well.
>
>I am very interested in this Roman Gladitorial School, and any ideas,
>comments, or suggestions that anyone would care to make, I should be
>pleased to hear such. I am also very pleased to serve in the XXIVth
>Legion in New Jersey. The Gladitorial School is a part of the XXIVth
>Legion at this time, and sometimes appears at an event with them. In
>this case , we help set up the Roman Camp, and are working toward
>building our share of materials (such as palisade stakes) and other
>items to assist in the appearance of the Legion Camp as well as the G.
>School.
>
>I was very pleased to see your message on the Main List since the M.L.
>has for the last few days been crowded with comments, arguments and
>insulting messages about the problems of the present day, often without
>either a good understanding of those problems or with a student's
>"textbook" view of the world, none of which is of the slightest interest
>to me, personally. I entered this organization to learn more about
>Roman Life, and Ideas, and the recent diatribes, and activity here on
>this Main List are proving to be a sad bore, for those of us who have
>come here seeking somethng far different. My thanks for your question,
>and I hope that we may interest others in responding to this very
>interesting topic and hobby.
>
>Respectfully;
>Marcus Audens
>
>
>Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!
>
>
>http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Numa et Pythagoras
From:	ksterne@--------
Date:	Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:01:38 -0000

Salvete,

In Plutarch's "Lives" on Numa, he discusses the contraversy regarding
Pythagoras. Plutarch mentions several simularities between
Numa's "reforms" and Pythagoran practice, but also mentions the
apparent time differential. I can't recall Plutarch stating an
opinion.

As to the burning of books, that's the first I have heard of such.

Valete,
Gaius Popillius Laenas


Subject:	[novaroma] Salve Marcus (Was Reenactment)
From:	trog99@--------
Date:	Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:05:20 -0000

Salve Marcus:

I am pleased at your interest in Nova Roma, and I shall be in touch
with you privately, about your involvement in the provincia.

In answer to your question about a Legion in Canada Orientalis: as
far as I have been able to detect, there is not.

However, we had a recent reenactment gathering this past August at
Fort Malden outside Windsor, in which reenactment Legion XXIV of
Pennsylvania participated. In addition, there were a couple of
legionaries from Detroit.

We plan to do this again next year; it's usually the first weekend in
August, so if you want to do the Roman thing, mark your calendar :)

Please keep well,
Pompeia Cornelia Strabo
Propraetrix Canada Orientalis
Nova Roma


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Comitia Centuriata Vote Results
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Tue, 23 Oct 2001 09:02:01 -0500 (CDT)

Salve Consul,

> I must, at this time, express my disgust with the fact that not one Citizen
> in nearly half of our Centuries even bothered to cast a vote on these
> matters, which dealt with amending our very Constitution itself!

There are five classes, with 204 citizens in each.

In the first class, cent. 1-55, 37 citizens voted.
In the second class, cent. 47-102, 17 citizens voted.
In the third class, cent. 103-141, 19 citizens voted.
In the fourth class, cent. 141-171, 37 citizens voted.
In the fifth class, cent. 172-193, 29 citizens voted.

The Censores are able to change the number of citizens allocated to each
class. Based on this performance, I believe the second and third classes
should have their allocations shrunk to the minimum allowable by law.
(Having only one and two more centuries each than the fourth class).

Unless something is fixed - either the allocation formulas changed or
the lex requiring 97 affirmative votes is struck down - we are going
to be in a horrible mess in December.

Vale, Octavius.

--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Comitia Centuriata Vote Results
From:	Gnaeus Salix Astur <salixastur@-------->
Date:	Tue, 23 Oct 2001 08:32:17 -0700 (PDT)

Salvete Quirites; et salve, consul Germanice.

--- Flavius Vedius Germanicus <germanicus@--------> wrote:
> Flavius Vedius Germanicus novaromanis S.P.D.
>
> The final results of the recent vote in the Comitia Centuriata have
> been
> reported by the Rogatores and are as follows:

<<snipped>>

> I must, at this time, express my disgust with the fact that not one
> Citizen
> in nearly half of our Centuries even bothered to cast a vote on these
> matters, which dealt with amending our very Constitution itself! To
> every
> Citizen who failed to vote, I say you should be ashamed of yourself.

I have to agree. All of the proposed measures represented an
improvement of the legal situation within Nova Roma.

I guess that we will have to propose these bills again. They clearly
have not been voted against; the problem has been abstention.

Another point would be a needed change in our legal system; an absolute
majority in the Comitia Centuriata, given our current level of
abstention, could be too restrictive too approve any law.

=====
Bene Valete in Pace Deorum!
Gnaeus Salix Astur.
Legatus Externis Rebus Provinciae Hispaniae
Triumvir Academiae Novae Romae in Thule
Scriba ad Res Externas Academiae Novae Romae in Thule.

__________________________________________________
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Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Comitia Centuriata Vote Results
From:	Kristoffer From <from@-------->
Date:	Tue, 23 Oct 2001 18:10:34 +0200

Gnaeus Salix Astur wrote:
> Another point would be a needed change in our legal system; an absolute
> majority in the Comitia Centuriata, given our current level of
> abstention, could be too restrictive too approve any law.

Salve, Gnaeus Salix Astur.

I agree completely, this is a great idea. Instead of 97 centuries, a
simple majority, voting in favor of a proposal, only require the simple
majority, i.e. more than 50% of the voting centuries. This way, all who
vote are ensured their democratic privilegies.

In the recent vote on the Lex Vedia de Liberus Civium, 96 out of 106
voting centuries approved of the law, meaning that over 90% of those
centuries who voted in this issue directly supported this proposal. Yet
these 90% aren't enough to make the proposal become a law.

This is not a situation we can allow to continue unchecked, a small
minority is able to veto the decisions of the majority, simply through
the inattendance of a large part of the voting population.

I ask of the consul to amend the constitution, to rectify the current
situation, at least until we have a larger percentage of participating
voters.

Vale,

Titus Octavius Pius,
Senior Legatus Thules,
Praeco Anarei Thules,
Scriba to the Curator Araneum

AKA Kristoffer From

---

Si hoc signum legere potes,
operis boni in rebus latinis alacribus
et fructuosis potiri potes.

- Not-so-famous quotation

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GCS d- s:++> a-- C++>$ ULS++ P+ L++ E- W++(--) N
o-- K- w--- !O M-- V-- PS->$ PE- Y+ PGP- t+@ 5- X-
R+++>$ !tv- b+++>$ DI++++ D+ G e h! !r-->r+++ !y-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Comitia Centuriata Vote Results
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Tue, 23 Oct 2001 11:24:42 -0500 (CDT)

Salve,

> This is not a situation we can allow to continue unchecked, a small
> minority is able to veto the decisions of the majority, simply through
> the inattendance of a large part of the voting population.

I agree.

> I ask of the consul to amend the constitution, to rectify the current
> situation, at least until we have a larger percentage of participating
> voters.

Unfortunately, to change the lex that caused this to happen, another lex
is needed - and it must be enacted by the Comitia Centuriata, the same
body that now has great difficulty voting "yes" as a whole.

Still, we should try - something must be done before the elections for
magistrates in December. A pair of consuls cannot possibly be elected
under these conditions (unless there is no third candidate, or only an
extremely unpopular one).

Vale, O.

--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Comitia Centuriata Vote Results
From:	"L. Sicinius Drusus" <lsicinius@-------->
Date:	Tue, 23 Oct 2001 09:57:50 -0700 (PDT)

--- Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
wrote:
> Salve Consul,
>
> > I must, at this time, express my disgust with the
> fact that not one Citizen
> > in nearly half of our Centuries even bothered to
> cast a vote on these
> > matters, which dealt with amending our very
> Constitution itself!
>
> There are five classes, with 204 citizens in each.
>
> In the first class, cent. 1-55, 37 citizens voted.
> In the second class, cent. 47-102, 17 citizens
> voted.
> In the third class, cent. 103-141, 19 citizens
> voted.
> In the fourth class, cent. 141-171, 37 citizens
> voted.
> In the fifth class, cent. 172-193, 29 citizens
> voted.
>
> The Censores are able to change the number of
> citizens allocated to each
> class. Based on this performance, I believe the
> second and third classes
> should have their allocations shrunk to the minimum
> allowable by law.
> (Having only one and two more centuries each than
> the fourth class).
>
> Unless something is fixed - either the allocation
> formulas changed or
> the lex requiring 97 affirmative votes is struck
> down - we are going
> to be in a horrible mess in December.
>
> Vale, Octavius.
>
> --
> M. Octavius Germanicus
> Propraetor, Lacus Magni
> Curator Araneum et Senator
>
>
Salvete Quirites,

The Second and third classes contain too many "former"
citizens who left Nova Roma without bothering to
resign. They are the main reason the II and III
classes have such a low turnout. Chances are that many
of the Centuries that returned no vote have NO active
citizens.

This problem will be solved when nonpayment of taxes
drops these inactive citizens into Century 193, but
that will come too late for the December Elections.

L. Sicinius Drusus

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Comitia Centuriata Vote Results
From:	Michael Loughlin <qccaesar@-------->
Date:	Tue, 23 Oct 2001 09:32:59 -0700 (PDT)

Ave,
If there were to be a majority vote such as that
proposed by titus octavius pius in the first paragraph
of his statement instead of a majority like more than
50% I would recommend a percentage similar to that of
the United States congress where a 2/3 vote is
required for proposals to pass. At least with a
required 2/3 vote a clear cut majority is evident.
However, the problem with people not voting is then
you'd have to take into consideration whether you
would apply the 2/3 rule to only those who vote or to
all of the population (assuming all would vote).
Thats just my thoughts but I am fairly new and don't
know all the ropes yet just giving my input.
vale,
quintus cornelius caesar
--- Kristoffer From <from@--------> wrote:
> Gnaeus Salix Astur wrote:
> > Another point would be a needed change in our
> legal system; an absolute
> > majority in the Comitia Centuriata, given our
> current level of
> > abstention, could be too restrictive too approve
> any law.
>
> Salve, Gnaeus Salix Astur.
>
> I agree completely, this is a great idea. Instead of
> 97 centuries, a
> simple majority, voting in favor of a proposal, only
> require the simple
> majority, i.e. more than 50% of the voting
> centuries. This way, all who
> vote are ensured their democratic privilegies.
>
> In the recent vote on the Lex Vedia de Liberus
> Civium, 96 out of 106
> voting centuries approved of the law, meaning that
> over 90% of those
> centuries who voted in this issue directly supported
> this proposal. Yet
> these 90% aren't enough to make the proposal become
> a law.
>
> This is not a situation we can allow to continue
> unchecked, a small
> minority is able to veto the decisions of the
> majority, simply through
> the inattendance of a large part of the voting
> population.
>
> I ask of the consul to amend the constitution, to
> rectify the current
> situation, at least until we have a larger
> percentage of participating
> voters.
>
> Vale,
>
> Titus Octavius Pius,
> Senior Legatus Thules,
> Praeco Anarei Thules,
> Scriba to the Curator Araneum
>
> AKA Kristoffer From
>
> ---
>
> Si hoc signum legere potes,
> operis boni in rebus latinis alacribus
> et fructuosis potiri potes.
>
> - Not-so-famous quotation
>
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> Version: 3.1
> GCS d- s:++> a-- C++>$ ULS++ P+ L++ E- W++(--) N
> o-- K- w--- !O M-- V-- PS->$ PE- Y+ PGP- t+@ 5- X-
> R+++>$ !tv- b+++>$ DI++++ D+ G e h! !r-->r+++ !y-
> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
>

__________________________________________________
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Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
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Subject:	AW: [novaroma] Reenactment
From:	"solinvictus" <caiustarquitius@-------->
Date:	Tue, 23 Oct 2001 19:46:23 +0200

Salve!
"Educate the stupid?" Waffen SS? Reenactment? Please clarify.
Ave.
Caius Tarquitius Saturninus

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Shane Evans [mailto:marcusafricanus@--------]
Gesendet: Dienstag, 23. Oktober 2001 03:15
An: novaroma@--------
Betreff: Re: [novaroma] Reenactment

I also am a major reenactor. I do AWI British
Dragoons, Ancient Roman Republic, ACW Union Cavalry,
WW1 Austrian, and WW2 Waffen SS. I work a lot with
the American Legion,local schools, and the Ohio
Historical Society, to do displays, teach classes, and
as I like to say when dealing with WW2, "Educate the
stupid". I think when you actually don a period
outfit, wether it be civilian or military, you
surround yourself with little odds and ends, and
people doing the same thing, you learn an aspect of
history you cant get from a book.

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Subject:	AW: [novaroma] Lorica Lacings and other miscellany
From:	"solinvictus" <caiustarquitius@-------->
Date:	Tue, 23 Oct 2001 19:46:34 +0200

Salve!
If you really want authentic greaves the only source i can give you is
http://www.hr-replikate.de . But be prepared for high costs. Just contact
Hoger, if he has time he`ll make them for you. (Actually he makes almost any
museum-reconstructions in germany and central europe.)
Vale.

Bonis nocet, qui malis parcit.

Caius Tarquitius Saturninus

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: C. Minucius Hadrianus [mailto:shinjikun@--------]
Gesendet: Dienstag, 23. Oktober 2001 07:05
An: Novaroma; Sodalitas Militarium
Betreff: [novaroma] Lorica Lacings and other miscellany

Salvete,

I was just wondering what any re-enactors here use for the front and rear
lacings/ties on their Lorica? I used rawhide shoe-laces just to make sure
mine fit, but I realize that they aren't really appropriate for re-enacting.
Any advice would be great! Also does anyone know a good source for authentic
leg greaves (of the type worn by a centurion mid to late 1st century) or
awards/award harnesses? Thanks!

Valete,

C. Minucius Hadrianus
Legatus of Massachusetts
Nova Britannia Provincia
Legio VI Victrix

ICQ# 28924742

"Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum." - Vegetius

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Comitia Centuriata Vote Results
From:	Michel Loos <loos@-------->
Date:	23 Oct 2001 16:00:02 -0200

On Tue, 2001-10-23 at 14:10, Kristoffer From wrote:
> Gnaeus Salix Astur wrote:
> > Another point would be a needed change in our legal system; an absolute
> > majority in the Comitia Centuriata, given our current level of
> > abstention, could be too restrictive too approve any law.
>
> Salve, Gnaeus Salix Astur.
>
> I agree completely, this is a great idea. Instead of 97 centuries, a
> simple majority, voting in favor of a proposal, only require the simple
> majority, i.e. more than 50% of the voting centuries. This way, all who
> vote are ensured their democratic privilegies.
>

Salve,

I agree with Salix, but not on the simple majority idea, at least for
constitutional issues. Perhaps a 2/3 simple majority if absolute
majority is not reached. (The actual laws would have passed with this
rule).

> In the recent vote on the Lex Vedia de Liberus Civium, 96 out of 106
> voting centuries approved of the law, meaning that over 90% of those
> centuries who voted in this issue directly supported this proposal. Yet
> these 90% aren't enough to make the proposal become a law.
>
> This is not a situation we can allow to continue unchecked, a small
> minority is able to veto the decisions of the majority, simply through
> the inattendance of a large part of the voting population.
>
> I ask of the consul to amend the constitution, to rectify the current
> situation, at least until we have a larger percentage of participating
> voters.
>

The consuls (we have 2) cannot ammend the constitution alone, they will
need our votes under the actual constitution. We can only hope that what
happened here will not be reproduced.

Manius Villius Limitanus


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Comitia Centuriata Vote Results
From:	Michel Loos <loos@-------->
Date:	23 Oct 2001 16:01:21 -0200

On Tue, 2001-10-23 at 14:24, Marcus Octavius Germanicus wrote:
> Salve,
>
> > This is not a situation we can allow to continue unchecked, a small
> > minority is able to veto the decisions of the majority, simply through
> > the inattendance of a large part of the voting population.
>
> I agree.
>
> > I ask of the consul to amend the constitution, to rectify the current
> > situation, at least until we have a larger percentage of participating
> > voters.
>
> Unfortunately, to change the lex that caused this to happen, another lex
> is needed - and it must be enacted by the Comitia Centuriata, the same
> body that now has great difficulty voting "yes" as a whole.
>
> Still, we should try - something must be done before the elections for
> magistrates in December. A pair of consuls cannot possibly be elected
> under these conditions (unless there is no third candidate, or only an
> extremely unpopular one).

Salve,

Just a question: could this be done through a Plebiscitum?

Manius Villius Limitanus

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Subject:	AW: [novaroma] Reenactment
From:	"solinvictus" <caiustarquitius@-------->
Date:	Tue, 23 Oct 2001 20:03:33 +0200

Salve!
The newest and IMO by far best book about gladiators (with a recension about
the film aswell) is, unfortunately in german, "Das Spiel mit dem Tod" from
Dr. Marcus Junkelmann (The guy who crossed the Alpes as a Augustan
Legionary), Mainz, 2000. Highly recommended. Maybe it can help you.
Congratulations for your white tunics. Still there are too few to be seen...
What I personally have difficulties to accept in reenactment is to argue
that, if the romans would have had this or that, they obviously would have
used it. If you transfer it to nuclear weapons.... you see where you get.
Vale.

Bonis nocet, qui malis parcit.

Caius Tarquitius Saturninus

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: jmath669642reng@-------- [mailto:jmath669642reng@--------]
Gesendet: Montag, 22. Oktober 2001 23:01
An: novaroma@--------
Betreff: [novaroma] Reenactment

Reenactment brings to the public the aniation of the ideas / artifacts
that can be seen in museums. Museums are valuable places, where a great
deal of information can be found, and where equipment can be viewed, and
measured for reproduction.

Reeneactment also gives people who are interested in such experiences
the opportunity to live in some small way the experiences of those in
the past.

This second reason gives rise to the "education" of the general public,
and should be done n a way that is accurate, and interesting. However,
most reenactors do not have the funding necessary to weave a cloak the
way it was done in early Rome, and others may not have the skill or the
tools to prepare many of the required items needed for the reenactment.

The too, there are those who will only use thoe things which have been
found throgh archaeology, and there are those who believe that if the
materials, technology, and skills were available in the period being
reenacted that the people of that time, would have been much quicker to
use thos kinds of ideas, based on thier needs that we are in the present
day. It is almost a certainty, that we do not have a clear picture of
every type of furniture, that every skilled carpenter ever built during
the period that we reenact, as an example. Any other area of endeavor
could use the same kind of logic.

In my reenactment, I try very hard to be as authentic as I am able,
considering cost, transport, and my personal needs. I use 1st person
style of responses, durig much of my response to the public, but not
100% since it can be and is often confusing to those not familiar with
such.

I reenact in several different periods (Early Roman Empire Gladitorial
School, French and Indian War--1748--1752 /// American Revolutionary
War--1776-1783 /// American Civil War--1861-1865). I enjoy an excellent
relationship with my reenactment comrades, and I have been invited by
several roundtables and historical societies to make presentations, and
inolve myself with thier efforts both as an period Engineer and
Administrative (Adjutant) Staff Officer. I have never attended an event
where I was not invited to return. I am not sure if any of the above
coments meets your standards, but my reenactment efforts seem to meet
both mine and others and so I am content with what I do.

In regard to the color of tunics, I believe the VIth Legion in New York
wears a primrose colored tunic (very light yellow), and as a Senator, I
wear a white linen tunic under my toga. The XXIVth Legion wears white
tunics.

I do however, use a canvas tent. The leather tents are very expensive
and requires special care that I cannot provide. The Gladitorial School
is in the process of purchasing one of the tents that was used in the
movie "Gladiator" and my fly is similar in size to a ships sail, which
was probably made from Linen and waterproofed with beeswax and a paint
solution.

My camp furniture is a very simplistic style of folding table and and
table extension with a simplistic two piece chair with folding stools
and chests for guests to sit on with folded robes for padding and
covered with animal hides. The tables are covered with brocaded
coverings that come down to the ground level.

Food, Utensils, and dishes follow the style found in a variety of books,
but are on the side of being sturdy and not so fancy, silver, brass,
pewter, or wood. Gold is beyond my budget as well!!! (Grin!!!).

I act as a narrator for the gladitorial bouts, and as a demonstrtor with
the wooden practice weapons of the school. I also have papyrus
materials on which I record the bouts, contracts, and keep records of
the school supplies and daily activities. I am working on making some
wax tablets, and some thin "wooden page" books as well.

I am very interested in this Roman Gladitorial School, and any ideas,
comments, or suggestions that anyone would care to make, I should be
pleased to hear such. I am also very pleased to serve in the XXIVth
Legion in New Jersey. The Gladitorial School is a part of the XXIVth
Legion at this time, and sometimes appears at an event with them. In
this case , we help set up the Roman Camp, and are working toward
building our share of materials (such as palisade stakes) and other
items to assist in the appearance of the Legion Camp as well as the G.
School.

I was very pleased to see your message on the Main List since the M.L.
has for the last few days been crowded with comments, arguments and
insulting messages about the problems of the present day, often without
either a good understanding of those problems or with a student's
"textbook" view of the world, none of which is of the slightest interest
to me, personally. I entered this organization to learn more about
Roman Life, and Ideas, and the recent diatribes, and activity here on
this Main List are proving to be a sad bore, for those of us who have
come here seeking somethng far different. My thanks for your question,
and I hope that we may interest others in responding to this very
interesting topic and hobby.

Respectfully;
Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary

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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Comitia Centuriata Vote Results
From:	Marcus Octavius Germanicus <haase@-------->
Date:	Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:49:15 -0500 (CDT)

Salve,

> Just a question: could this be done through a Plebiscitum?
>
> Manius Villius Limitanus

Most things can be done that way, but this is considered a law about the
inner workings of a particular Comitia, and thus can't be changed by the
other two Comitia.

Vale, Octavius.

--
M. Octavius Germanicus
Propraetor, Lacus Magni
Curator Araneum et Senator


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] Comitia Centuriata Vote Results
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@-------->
Date:	Tue, 23 Oct 2001 11:55:47 -0700

Ave,

Senator M. Octavius is correct, the Constitution is clear. According to
(III.B) it clearly states the following:

The comitia centuriata (Assembly of Centuries) shall be made up of all
of the citizens, grouped into their respective centuries. While it shall
be called to order by either a consul or a praetor, only the comitia
centuriata shall pass laws governing the rules by which it shall operate
internally. It shall have the following powers:

Therefore any law to changing the workings of the Comitia Centuriata
must follow the lex passed by Consul Flavius Vedius, entitled, LEX VEDIA
DE RATIONE COMITIORUM CENTURIATORUM. Because it is in this lex where it
clearly states the minimum number of Centuries needed to pass a law.
Specifically in this lex (V.B.2) states the following: In the case of a
vote on a lex, 97 of the 193 centuries must vote in favor for the lex to
be adopted.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Censor of Nova Roma

Marcus Octavius Germanicus wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> > Just a question: could this be done through a Plebiscitum?
> >
> > Manius Villius Limitanus
>
> Most things can be done that way, but this is considered a law about
> the
> inner workings of a particular Comitia, and thus can't be changed by
> the
> other two Comitia.
>
> Vale, Octavius.
>
> --
> M. Octavius Germanicus
> Propraetor, Lacus Magni
> Curator Araneum et Senator
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: Sodalitas Militarium
From:	jmath669642reng@--------
Date:	Tue, 23 Oct 2001 15:32:30 -0400 (EDT)

Master G. Cornelius Pudens;

When you have been accepted into the Militarium, then you may respond to
me for your assignment within the Auxila Study Group.

Until your formal acceptance, I should be interested in knowing your
specific interests in the area of Roman Auxila, and the periods that
your interest entails.

My particular interest in the Auxila Forces are in the area of Slingers
and Stonethrowers, as well as Archers. At the last Roman Event that I
attended, I made up a couple of primative slings, and am presently
working on the design of a period bow and primative arrows. I am also
working on the idea of pouches for stones and lead sling bullets. I
will probably use leather as the medium, and a baldric style slung pouch
as a pattern. For the Slinger perhaps a double pouch, one side for
stones and one side for lead bullets to keep them seperate. Another and
even more simplistic view would be simply to use a sash or robe over the
shoulder and across the front tied at the waist, to act as a "pouch" to
hold several stones. A tunic, robe, shoes and sling with a few stones
makes up the clothing / weapons of this Auxila Fighter as potrayed in
the picture "Balearic Slingers in action (1st Century---page 270)".

For the Archer's main weapon, I will probably use a modern bow covered
in leather to portray what I wish to do, a recurve that I already have,
until such time as I can determine the method of construction of a
recurve bow from scratch with my limited facilities. A long slim knife
and a knife-belt would complete the arrangement. A shoulder or waist
mounted leather quiver would also be required, and a conical helmet and
lorica hamata or plate mail may be the most suitable. Add to the above,
a Sagum, and I believe you have a fairly accurate view of the Hamian
Archer from the garrison at Houseteads in the Province of Britannia (3rd
and 4th Centuries--Page 142).

Reference:----

"Hadrian's Wall In The Day's of the Romans" R. Embleton / F. Graham, F.
Graham--NewCastle Upon Tyne--1984"

I should be interested in your comments about these projects or in fact
the comments of any who are interested in these facets of Auxila
activity.

Reenactment Interested NR Citizens;

Those of you who have evidenced an interest in military reenactment on
the Main List, as a relief from the recent steady diet of messages
relating to the current world situation, rather than to Roman History /
Culture, I invite you to join the Sodalitas Militarium where these
subjects and all others relating to ancient military subjects are
discussed and pursued
in a friendly and non-intrusive way. While the Militarium embership may
not always agree with your views, there is a kind tolerance in the
Militarium for all views of this broad consideration for those whose
ideas and observations are also backed with reference and study.

Respectfully;
Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary


Subject:	[novaroma] ADMIN: List Topics
From:	"JusticeCMO" <justicecmo@-------->
Date:	Tue, 23 Oct 2001 15:46:13 -0400

Salve,

As there have been several public and one private request to the moderators
for us to end the thread on Afghanistan/war, I thought I'd take a moment to
clarify how such a thing works here on the Main List.

Our Constitution states that all citizens shall have:

"The right to participate in all public forums and discussions, and the
right to reasonably expect such forums to be supported by the State. Such
communications, regardless of their content, may not be restricted by the
State, except where they represent an imminent and clear danger to the
Republic. Such officially sponsored forums may be expected to be reasonably
moderated in the interests of maintaining order and civility;"

As can clearly be seen above, regardless of how "off-topic" the war may be
we may not censor the discussion on that basis alone. In point of fact, if
a citizen were to decide to post the finer details of how to groom a show
poodle, we would be at a loss to censor that either, as useless to our
Nation as the information may be.

Unless an individual crosses the line into "uncivil" behavior <name-calling,
insults, etc> or they somehow manage to create a credible threat to our
Nation with their words, the moderators must allow the discussion to
continue.

Having said that, I will offer some free advice. For those of you sick and
tired of the monopoly the Afghanistan thread has had here, IGNORE IT. I
believe you will find that even the most diehard poster will quickly tire of
posting things to which *no one* replies. For every one Afghanistan post
you see, post two on-topic posts. Refuse to engage in the discussion and it
will quickly die. That is the best proactive step each of you can take in
seeing and end to the discussion.

I would apologize for not being able to do more, but I value the freedom of
this Forum too much to do so. True, that freedom occasionally leads to a
bully-pulpit for someone's pet topic, but it also keeps us all free to have
our voices heard here and in the end *that* is most important.

Vale,
Priscilla Vedia Serena
Curatrix Sermonis


Subject:	[novaroma] New Movie
From:	"Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa" <vipsaniusagrippa@-------->
Date:	Tue, 23 Oct 2001 14:07:02 -0600

Salvete

I just read today that Martin Scorsese is going to direct a movie about
Alexander the Great of Macedonia. I guess this is due to the box office
success of Gladiator. The bad news though is that Leonardo DiCaprio is said
to be playing Alexander.

C. Vipsanius Agrippa

_________________________________________________________________
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Subject:	[novaroma] Re: New Movie
From:	ksterne@--------
Date:	Tue, 23 Oct 2001 20:13:31 -0000

Leonardo DiCaprio!!!!

Arrrrggggghhhhh!!!!

G P Laneas


Subject:	[novaroma] A Movie on Caesar (was re: New Movie)
From:	Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix <alexious@-------->
Date:	Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:17:05 -0700

Ave,

Speaking of movies, here is a post I got from another list, from Marcus
Sentius Claudius:

Hi everyone

Just to let you know that there is a new Film soon to be released (for
TV)
on Julius Caesar ...

Here are the details fresh from the net..
(http://www.deangelisgroup.com/m33home.htm)

SYNOPSIS

Julius Caesar is an epic story set in magnificent, ancient Rome. It will
bring to life one of historyŐs greatest figures. The miniseries will not
only show Caesar as one of the greatest politicians, generals and
orators to
have ever lived. It will particularly tell of a man, of his early days,
of
his formation and assent to power, of his ambitions, anxieties,
weaknesses
and of the three great loves of his life. As Caesar rises to fame, his
life
is constantly at risk for high political reasons, and he is forced to
flee
Rome when Sulla, the malevolent Roman dictator, threatens to execute
him.
Returning to the capital, with his citizenship restored for bravery in
battle, Caesar becomes famous for his amazing gift of public speaking.
He
also becomes entwined in a great and ill-fated love story. In defiance
of
SullaŐs wishes, he marries his true love Cornelia, who later dies
tragically. CorneliaŐs death almost destroys Caesar, and, for years to
come,
all his love is devoted to his daughter, Julia. Now concentrating on his
political career, Caesar champions popular causes and fights the corrupt
aristocracy that dominates Roman politics. He declares that, for the
Empire
to have real meaning, all of its subjects Đ of whatever race, creed or
color
Đ should be offered Roman citizenship. His populist politics and
unprecedented military victories raise Caesar to Roman Emperor. It is
towards the premature end of his life that Caesar, isolated at the
pinnacle
of power, finds love in his relationship with another of historyŐs great
leaders Đ Cleopatra. But, yet again, lasting happiness eludes his grasp,
and
Roman politics lure Caesar away from Egypt. Now a mature man, CaesarŐs
attitude towards power, towards Rome and towards the Roman Senate seems
to
have changed. Back in the capital city, powerful men begin to fear the
most
powerful man amongst themÉ
deAngelisPRESS
Julius Caesar becomes a TNT miniseries from DeAngelis Group VIDEO AGE
INTERNATIONAL - April 20 2001
New world order at MIP VARIETY - April 9 2001
TNT DeAngelis hail "Caesar" THE HOLLYWOOD REPORTER MIP TV 2001 - APRIL 4
2001
TNT and the DeAngelis Group Hail Julius Caesar MIPTV 2001 - Tuesday
April 3
2001
Giulio Cesare e Napoleone conducono gli affari Al MIP TV CINEMA & VIDEO
INTERNATIONAL - Aprile Maggio 2001
Tre Imperatori per il video IL MESSAGGERO - Aprile 4 2001

C O M M E R C I A L I N F O R M A T I O N
Production year: 2001
Co- Producer: Victory MultiMediaFond 11 & 12

In association with: and

Location: Malta / Eastern Europe
A R T I S T I C G R O U P
Director: An Uli Edel film
Production designer: Francesco Bronzi
Screenplay Writer: Peter Pruce
Composer: Ruy Folgura

Costume Designer: Simonetta Leoncini
Casting: Jeremy Zimmerman
E-mail: zimmcasting@--------
Executive Producer: Guido de Angelis, Lorenzo Minoli, Russell Kegan

Producer: Paolo Piria, Giuseppe Pedersoli, Jonas Bauer for the DeAngeli

Vale

Marcus Sentius Claudius

Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa wrote:
>
> Salvete
>
> I just read today that Martin Scorsese is going to direct a movie
> about
> Alexander the Great of Macedonia. I guess this is due to the box
> office
> success of Gladiator. The bad news though is that Leonardo DiCaprio
> is said
> to be playing Alexander.
>
> C. Vipsanius Agrippa
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] New Movie
From:	Michael Loughlin <qccaesar@-------->
Date:	Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:21:41 -0700 (PDT)

Ave,
Where'd you hear this good news (the movie being
made) yet horrific news (leonardo's in it)?
vale,
quintus cornelius caesar

__________________________________________________
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Subject:	Re: [novaroma] New Movie
From:	"Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa" <vipsaniusagrippa@-------->
Date:	Tue, 23 Oct 2001 14:49:23 -0600

It was on canoe.ca's entertainment site.

>From: Michael Loughlin <qccaesar@-------->
>Reply-To: novaroma@--------
>To: novaroma@--------
>Subject: Re: [novaroma] New Movie
>Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:21:41 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Ave,
> Where'd you hear this good news (the movie being
>made) yet horrific news (leonardo's in it)?
> vale,
> quintus cornelius caesar
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
>http://personals.yahoo.com

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Subject:	[novaroma] Re: New Movie
From:	trog99@--------
Date:	Tue, 23 Oct 2001 21:42:15 -0000

--- Salve:

Yunno, IMHO, I don't think the lad is a bad actor; and he is a perfect
typecast for Alexander the Great: blond, young, AND, women LOVE him
:), which I am sure the producers have taken into account. After all,
their primary purpose in making this movie is not to pay tribute to
Alexander, it is to make money.

Just my perspective,
Po

In novaroma@--------, "Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa"
<vipsaniusagrippa@--------> wrote:
> Salvete
>
> I just read today that Martin Scorsese is going to direct a movie
about
> Alexander the Great of Macedonia. I guess this is due to the box
office
> success of Gladiator. The bad news though is that Leonardo DiCaprio
is said
> to be playing Alexander.
>
> C. Vipsanius Agrippa
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] New Movie
From:	"Teleri ferch Nyfain" <rckovak@-------->
Date:	Tue, 23 Oct 2001 18:45:41 -0400

That's not necessarily bad news, you know. Mr. DiCaprio actually shows a lot of talent as an actor (although, having 2 teenage girls, I find it very difficult amid the swooning to discern this sometimes LOL). I enjoyed his performances in The Basketball Diaries & What's Eating Gilbert Grape.
And, makeup & camera angles can do a lot to alter appearances, if the acting ability is there. And, of course, a decent script. Which would be my worry.
Valete,
Helena Galeria
I just read today that Martin Scorsese is going to direct a movie about
Alexander the Great of Macedonia. I guess this is due to the box office
success of Gladiator. The bad news though is that Leonardo DiCaprio is said
to be playing Alexander.

C. Vipsanius Agrippa

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Subject:	[novaroma] Reenactment
From:	jmath669642reng@--------
Date:	Tue, 23 Oct 2001 18:45:50 -0400 (EDT)

Master Caius Tarquitius Saturnius;

My thanks for your book recommendation. Unfortunately I do not read
German. I will wait most impatiently for the translation!!!

As to your comment:

"---if the Roman's had this or that they obviously would have used it.
If you transfer it to Nuclear Weapons-----you see where you get."

I am afraid that statement is quite a leap from my carefully determined
and articulated message, as below:

"---there are those who believe that if the materials, technology, and
skills were available in the period being reenacted that the people of
that time, would have been much quicker to use those kinds of ideas
based on thier needs, than we are in the present day."

Therefore four things would be needed to consider carefully in this
instance:

materials / technology / skill / need.

additionlly there is the consideration that most Romans lived with much
less than we do, and ancient peoples are generally granted the ability
from their situation that thier "needs" were satisfied in very unique
cases, that we today, would not normally concieve or think of. The
"Foxfire Books" of a decade or so ago, were certainly indicative of that
ability from the early American Mountain People, who used what they had
to meet their needs in hundreds of unique ways, and shared that
information with thier grand-children. This information filled a whole
series of publications and documents that speak to the very point that I
am making.

Man is a tool-making and tool-using animal, and his needs, ability,
materials, technology, and skills detemine his accomplishments in any
period that you care to mention. From Cro-Magnon Man to the present
day.

Since your "Nuclear Weapon Comments" requires three of the four items
above which were not available (materials, technology and skill) your
comment simply does not relate.

Any Carpenter who can turn out a luxerious reclining divan such as used
in the best villas of the Roman day, could certainly devise a folding
table.

Any metalsmith who could create a siver goblet of exquisite design and
beauty such as those found in various archaelogical finds, could
certainly design a simple brass lamp or dish.

Any sailor of the period who would have used an old sail or perhaps even
a specially designed awning (such as those used in the Colliseums) for
shade, might consider the use of sail material for field use, presented
with the need based on the request (demand!!??!!) of a senior officer.
The use of such material is not beyond the imagination to be used in the
field, or aboard ship to shade the temporary location of a senior
officer or magistrate.

I will admit that any such determination must be looked at with care and
with concern for what is being presented and for the period being
reenacted, and the four items previously mentioned should be very
carefully considered. However, there are some things that cannot be
controlled, for instance brass, iron and copper. It is simply
impossible to get those materials which were manufactured to the
standards of the Roman day anywhere in the world at the present time.
The smelting processes result in a better quality of material. This
technicak knowledge is used today in determining the authenticity of
archaelogical elements between the present day and the 16th century.
Blacksmith iron is only available in a very few places, and mild steel
normally is used in it's place for items like pilum heads and spear
points. Swords and knives which were tempered, were not done so in the
same manner at all as is done today, since the technology was not
available, and so we use today what we have, and do our best to make it
look authentic. A Sagum Cloak whose threads were made on a drop-spindle
and those threads then woven into a cloak would cost thousands today,
well beyond the ability of most reenactors to afford or to have made.

There must be some lee-way established, in order to make the reenactment
world a worthy activity, and yet not limit it to an exclusive group of
people whose funding is unlimited. I am equally sure that the rawhide
used in the binding of primitive tools is not the same rawhide that is
found in dog bones of today. However, the dressing of a cowhide into
rawhide at my villa is not possible with my facilities and skill.
Commercial rawhide manufacturers use different techniques and materials
than werre used in Roman Times. However, I have never had my rawhide
covered cane questioned in some 13 years of use in the reenactment
field. I am sure there are some people out there, like myself, who may
be aware of the difference, and those people are also aware, apparently,
of the problem of aquiring the "real stuff." When asked I tell people
that the materials, weapons, etc. is a reproduction based on museum
artifacts, and archaelogical findings. Everyone that I have ever talked
to in a reenactment event, understood this, when it was explained to
them, even small chldren.

As these findings change I try to keep abreast of them through reading
and through my renactment friends. However, this is all part of the
reenactment world, being as authentic as possible, having refrences for
the things that you do, say, or have, and in the last analysis being
very careful of your presentation within your ability, both financial,
verbal, and the attitude with which you portray your character.

I find that in 1st Person, my presentation of a British Officer of a
crack regiment, to the ignorant, deluded, Cabbage -Farming provincials
of the King's North-American Colonies is so impressive to some people
that the fact that I wear brass shoe buckles instead of silver, is not
at all noticed. Some have said that my portrayal of a Roman Senator has
some of that same "starchy" quality.

Respectfully;
Marcus Audens

Fair Winds and Following Seas!!!

http://community.webtv.net/jmath669642reng/NovaRomaMilitary


Subject:	Re: [novaroma] New Movie
From:	Michael Loughlin <qccaesar@-------->
Date:	Tue, 23 Oct 2001 15:55:58 -0700 (PDT)

ave,
Well I for one have a very strong dislike for
leonardo...as bad as this sounds...i was hoping the
mighty sea really would have gotten him in
Titanic...personal choice and opinion...the guys just
annoying to me
quintus cornelius caesar
--- Teleri ferch Nyfain <rckovak@--------> wrote:
> That's not necessarily bad news, you know. Mr.
> DiCaprio actually shows a lot of talent as an actor
> (although, having 2 teenage girls, I find it very
> difficult amid the swooning to discern this
> sometimes LOL). I enjoyed his performances in The
> Basketball Diaries & What's Eating Gilbert Grape.
> And, makeup & camera angles can do a lot to alter
> appearances, if the acting ability is there. And,
> of course, a decent script. Which would be my
> worry.
> Valete,
> Helena Galeria
> I just read today that Martin Scorsese is going to
> direct a movie about
> Alexander the Great of Macedonia. I guess this is
> due to the box office
> success of Gladiator. The bad news though is that
> Leonardo DiCaprio is said
> to be playing Alexander.
>
> C. Vipsanius Agrippa
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>

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